The Therapy Edit - One Thing with Hollie De Cruz on carving your own path

Episode Date: February 11, 2022

On this episode of The Therapy Edit's 'One thing', Anna Mathur chats with Hollie de Cruz..Hollie's one thing she'd like to impart to other parents is that when it comes to the process of birth, you always have options and you don't have to do what others do or what you're advised is the normal or best way of doing things. Hollie is a renowned pregnancy and birth educator, two-time author and podcaster. She is also a mother to two boys, Oscar (11) and Cosmo (3). Hollie’s new platform – Here/Hear – will be a place for expectant and seasoned mothers to learn, grow, and feel supported in coming home to themselves. You can stay up to date with the launch on Instagram at @weare_herehear, or follow Hollie at @theyesmummum.

Hello and welcome to The Therapy Edit with me, psychotherapist's mum of three and author Anna Martha. Every Friday, I invite one guest to tell me the one thing they would most like to share with mums everywhere. So join with me for the next 15 minutes as we hear this dose of wisdom. I hope you enjoy it. Hello and welcome to today's episode of One Thing where I ask a guest. what their one thing is that they want to impart in all mums. And I'm so excited today to have with me, probably one of the first people that I followed when I downloaded Instagram. And Holly is a renowned pregnancy and birth educator. She is a two-time author. I've

got both her books on my bookshelf next to me. And she is also a podcaster. She's a mother of two boys, Oscar, who is currently 11, and Cosmo, who is three. And Holly has a new platform called Here Here, which is going to be a place for expectant and season mums to learn, grow and feel supported in coming home to themselves. You can stay up to date with her launch on Instagram at at We Are and then underscore Here Here. Or you can follow Holly at the Yes Mum Mum. And you've probably seen her cards if you've not been given them, had one of her books, got one of her books on your bookshel. So it will be wonderful. I think for us to hear a little bit more from Holly today. So hi,

Hi, thanks for having me. Hi. That was a lovely. Oh, it's a pleasure. How are you today? I am good. I'm good today. Yeah, I'm good. Good. Good. Oh, that's a short answer, isn't it? Normally I go on and on that bit and say, you know, how tired I am. I actually feel all right today. Good. Oh, it is good to feel good. It is. It is. You have to actually acknowledging it. It's good, isn't it? Yeah. Otherwise, you really stick with the hard days and, you know, sometimes don't realize that some days would actually feel all right. Yeah, and embrace it and enjoy it. And I think we can sometimes just brace ourselves, can't we and feel a bit kind of almost suspicious when we feel good. Yeah. Or what have I forgotten? Yeah. If I feel relaxed.

What is it good that I'm not focusing on? No, I'm good. I'm good. Oh, brilliant. So I ask guests, and I'm so excited to ask this today to you. Holly, what is the one thing that you would love to impart in fellow moms? I love this question. And I've given it a lot of thought. And the one thing I would love to impart in mums is the importance and the confidence for them to understand that they always have options. And actually that you don't always have to do what you've been told you should do or what other people are doing or what the current trend is. And that there is a real power in working. out what your different choices could be and just sitting with all of them and working out

what feels right for you, what feels right for your family, and it being okay if that's different to what's okay for other people. So I think, you know, realizing there's more than one way of doing things and that there's something really empowering in that. It's definitely something I learned between my first and my second. So do you feel like with your first, you just saw the road ahead as you thought it should be and felt. Absolutely. I didn't even question it as much. No, and it's funny because when I was pregnant, because I'd done hypnobirthing, I mean, hypno birthing really encourages you to, you know, work out what all of your different options

are, make informed decisions, work out what your instincts telling. You know, you know, it's really heavy on that message. And so I'd really done that in my pregnancy and for my birth. But then when I went home with this baby, I felt like I was really underprepared for that. And so I went back to that old habit of, well, what's everyone else doing? What am I being told is the right thing to do? And just very much went down that route. Whereas when I had Cosmo, I'd kind of realized, why aren't I implying this to motherhood? This is a really useful tool.

And I've changed so much that I do with Cosmo that other people would probably think was a bit weird or, you know, not the norm. But I feel really happy with. And it's because I gave myself space to really, just sit with this reality that there is more than one way of doing things and it's okay if other people don't like what you're doing as well you know I think we're very quick in in motherhood to if one person chooses something that automatically becomes a criticism of what we're doing and I really would like mothers to get away from that

like someone can choose something completely different and it doesn't take anything away from what you've chosen then how do you because I think so often we do as you say kind of we look around to see what the people doing is it's kind of by the confirmation that we're doing the right thing or kind of guidance for what to do when we're not sure yeah so how do you get how did you get to that place then of of actually just saying you know what I'm going to I'm going to go with my sense of what is right how did you explore what those options were and how did you how did you find confidence I guess in going down a path that might look different

and not taking what the people were doing as a statement of whether that was right or not for you. Yeah. So interestingly, it started for me when I started looking at alternative education for Oscar when he started school, so when he was four. And we looked at a kind of a different style of education. And it really made me question what our kind of mainstream schooling. is set up to do and that took me down and we weren't actually in a position to choose a different

kind of education for Oscar but we are for Cosmo and so really I would say I've been on this you know eight year journey of understanding how heavily institutionalized we are to do as we're told you know and to comply and to get things right by the standards of other people every single one of our institutions confirms that belief and that thought process and that type of behaviour that there is one right answer and that if we get it right it will be rewarded and actually when you start looking at alternatives to that you realise that there are really lots of other beneficial ways of doing things

not that way is wrong necessarily but that it might not be right for you so actually in exploring alternative education options it really opened my eyes to how heavily conditioned we are to fall in line and do what other people are doing and i realized that i've always felt a desire to fight against that but didn't know what it was and then looking at that kind of institution made me realize oh well it's because i've been in this system my whole life of course my natural place of comfort is getting it right being rewarded being praised, being validated. But is that what makes me tick? Is that what really feels right in my gut? No. So it's been a long, it's not an overnight, oh, I think I'm going to do something

different. It has been a, I would say, an eight year learning process and just, you know, the unpacking that comes with that. Wow. So just finding your freedom, really, and maybe even recognizing that there is more freedom to be found in the choice. choices that we make? Because I think sometimes it does feel like the answers are just plunked in front of us. And actually that we look for that a lot of the time. You know, that that brings us comfort. I just want someone to tell me what to do. You know, that idea. You know, I hear mothers say that all the time, what shall I do? It's like, you know, but you just find it more comfortable to be told because that's what you're used to. You know, so if you think about when we're

pregnant, we're told, or you're not allowed to do that, you have to do that. You have to do that you're allowed to do anything you want you just have to challenge what you're being told but of course that is uncomfortable because we're not generally taught to do that yeah so if someone listening was thinking oh my goodness this is so right i've never even thought that there might be other options available to me how do i even start to find out what some of these options are because I think often we just go on a bit of a Google spree, don't we? Yeah. And then we feel a bit overwhelmed or, again, we can feel a bit manipulated or push down certain roads.

But where, if we just want to explore that even asking that question of ourselves, where do we go and how do we start to build up a little bit of confidence in that, in a voice that actually might know the answers? Yeah, I think, I mean, again, I don't think there's one answer to that. I think it's an ongoing process. but I think moving outside of your echo chamber is really important because we live in a kind of online world of confirmation bias where we're always being affirmed to that our beliefs are right

or that our way of doing things is right and if that's the place you're stuck in you're never going to look outside it because it's too scary so I think really seeking out opinions that are different to yours seeking out ways of doing things that are different to yours and learning about them and actually being willing to take little bits of it.

You don't have to transfer your whole life into a new way of being, but there might be little nuggets of things you think, oh wow, I really like the sound of that. I want to bring that into what I'm doing. You know, getting away from the binary, I think is really important. This idea that it's this or that,

that there's this landscape that you can make your own, you know, by taking different seeds from all over the place and planting them in your own garden rather than this idea that you just have to pick which garden you want. Yeah. I've got this image in my mind of like, you know, just a road and then suddenly all these other roads are just starting to branch off it. Yeah, like there are other options. Yeah, the pretty ones, the windy ones. Yeah, and they might not be as quick. They might not be as direct. You know, I've had way more ups and down since being open. to change because there have been moments where I thought, oh no, that's really not right for

us. But trying it has still got me somewhere. And it's enriched the power of my instinct, my ability to lean into that and to not be afraid of getting it wrong. I do think we have this, I think lots of us have this very overwhelming fear of what happens if we get it wrong. And the reality is nothing. You just might feel a bit ashamed or a bit disappointed. in yourself, which obviously we have learnt to feel it's very bad, but it's not really. Well, it's, we let, we let these things make statements, don't we, about how valid we are as people, whether we're good or whether we're bad. And I think it's, you're right, it's separating that off, just as you're saying, separate off what someone else is doing, whether that, and

not allowing that to dictate what you're doing. So basically, just look at, just explore and ask yourself, is this my only option? What other options might there be? Even if you carry on down that same road, because actually that one was right for you, it's just about widening your vision, I guess, widening where the options that are there for you. Yeah. Yeah. And they're not seeing everything as binary, realizing there is a lot of nuance in motherhood, in parenting. You know, I think I remember when I had Oscar, someone saying, Are you going to be one of those attached to parents? Well, like, that's a thing.

Like, that's a package thing. When actually, it's not. It's... You don't need to label. No, exactly. Yeah. It feels comfortable, but actually, it can be incredibly restricting. Mm, I think so.

And we only get one life. Why not... Totally. You know, look at the... Explore it. Just be aware. Explore it. Be aware of the freedoms that there might be.

Yeah. Thank you so much. pleasure that's powerful thank you thanks holly so with every episode i finish off with a little quickfire round so i've got just four four little questions for you so holly tell us what's a motherhood high for you um motherhood high was when i had cosmo i spent two weeks in bed that was a high when I had Oscar I was like out at a cafe on day two

or something ridiculous and second time round I just thought no I'm going to soak this up I'm going to rest I'm going to just soak in my baby and healing and that was that really I feel got my motherhood journey

the second time round off to a much better start so that was definitely a high makes me want to go back and do that first one again yeah totally I feel that all the time that bit of magic But it's giving yourself permission, isn't it?

Yeah. I'm realising that the world isn't going anywhere. Two weeks is nothing. But you get so much from it and so does your baby. I love that. And maybe there are pregnant people here listening and thinking, oh. Yeah, do it.

And it needs to be an intentional thing, doesn't it? It needs to be intentional. It's one of those things that when you're pregnant, you actually have to set stuff up. Who can help me with the school run? Who can cook me a couple of meals? who can I lean on to give me availability to live after myself? Yeah.

And I do think you make sure on your journey easier, actually. Yeah, and then it's almost, it's making that statement right in the beginning. I'm not going to get swept up by the world. Yeah. Because the world will always be moving fast. Yeah. So how can I, how can I kind of stamp that claim on those first couple of weeks? Yeah.

I had an affirmation on my wall in that time saying, I'm exactly where I need to be. And that was really, every morning I was like, yeah. This is, you know, stop chasing the idea of more. This is where you're meant to be. So affirming. Oh, so affirming. And what is a motherhood low for you?

I've just written down, Kidsania. Kinsania. Kinsania. Have you ever been to Kidsania? No, I haven't. I mean, it is quite good. no no you should if it's a low

no the dynamic of the day was the low wasn't actually that so when he was like I don't know maybe he was a few months old but he hated the car he hated the car

with all of his lungs and would scream the whole time anyway Oscar had like an inset day and I thought I know I don't want Oscar to just sit home so I'm going to take him to Kudzania at Westfield with Cosmo

and it was I think must have been around Christmas time. And so we went to Kidsania, was sat in traffic for hours. Cosmo was screaming, took Osk around Kudzania whilst trying to breastfeed Cosmo. And then the real low point, actually, sorry, it's not Kizania, it was going into Zara to return something afterwards. And there was, you know, a classic Zara, huge cue. And Cosmo was just screaming, screaming. And a lady said to me, do you think he's hungry? it's like yeah probably

but it's just like you know it isn't right now I am hungry for something bed space and I just in that moment I thought why am I here what am I trying to prove what am I trying to do

Oscar would have been fine having a game of Yatsi at home probably it was that feeling that I needed to prove how good I was at juggling stuff and making sure my kids had fun haven't done it since no but i love that i love what you said that is about yeah and why am i trying to prove something

and i think that that's just it's so resonant with your message isn't it is just notice when you're what you're trying to prove yeah who is this for actually it's a really good question yeah who is this for yeah yeah good questions do you're asking kids probably aren't going to benefit from it are they that's it that's it happy happy mom thriving kids so harley what's one thing you feel good um what is one thing that makes me feel good kisses from my kids physical contact with my kids closeness the warmth of their skin just the physicality of my kids yeah I want to go and find one of mine now yeah I want to like stroke them and sniff them oh I remember when Cosmo was born and I was in bed with him and thinking I need to under I need to like

take in every part of you I want to know what your fingers are like and what your tummy's like you know when you've just met them and you don't know them enough yeah yeah oh it makes me want to squish someone and finally how do you describe

motherhood in three words this is really hard three words um frightening transformational and overwhelming

frightening yeah I feel like those things could sound quite negative but I don't mean it in a negative way I mean it in a very it's powerful isn't it it's yeah overwhelming love you know it's not just an overwhelming overwhelm it's overwhelming lots of

yeah totally and just a very big thing but I think we underestimate sometimes yeah well thank you You know, thank you for bringing us some wisdom and some, I think, just empowerment to ask the questions. Yeah, just to seek to ask, just to be aware that there are other roads, that there are other ways. Yeah. And they're there for us.

Yep. So thank you. Thank you so much, Holly. Thank you for having me. Well, I encourage people to go and find you over at the Yes, My Mum, where you talk about all the different things. And there are links from there as well, aren't there? There are. And we can also follow your journey with We Are Here Here, which is really.

exciting, but thank you so much for sharing this powerful message with us today. It's a real pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for listening to today's episode of The Therapy Edit. If you enjoyed it, please do share, subscribe and review. You can find more from me on Instagram at Anna Martha. You might like to check out my two books called Mind Over Mother and Know Your Worth. I'm also the founder of the Mother Mind Way, a platform full of guides, resources and a community with the sole focus on supporting mothers' mental and emotional well-being. It's been lovely chatting with you. Speak soon.