The Therapy Edit - One Thing with Kate Lawler on seeing beyond the highlights

Episode Date: December 16, 2022

In this guest episode of The Therapy Edit, Anna chats to Kate Lawler about her One Thing. Kate offers listeners her advice around reminding yourself that for the most part, what you see on social media are the highlights of the lives of others.Kate Lawler is a Mum of One, TV & Radio presenter and Sunday Times Bestselling Author of Maybe Baby: On the Mother Side which you can buy here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audible-Maybe-Baby-Mother-Side/dp/B09MQVDFYL/ref=sr_1_1?crid=10T1W4SMMZUQY&keywords=kate+lawler&qid=1668522948&sprefix=kate+lawler%2Caps%2C80&sr=8-1You can also follow Kate at @thekatelawler

Hello and welcome to The Therapy Edit with me, psychotherapist's mum of three and author Anna Martha. Every Friday, I invite one guest to tell me the one thing they would most like to share with mums everywhere. So join with me as we hear this dose of wisdom. I hope you enjoy it. Hi, everyone. Welcome to today's guest episode of the Therapy Edit. I am really excited about today's episode. we've already been chatting away like we're old mates. I feel like we are because I watch all her

stories. I have with me, Kate Lawler. Kate is a presenter and a DJ. She's got a daughter called Noah, with the same little name as me, Noah, Daisy Ilsa. I haven't got the ill set, but I have got the Daisy. So I loved that. And she is the author of Maybe Baby on the mother's side. Now, I've got that book. It's brilliant. It's so, it's funny and relatable, just as Kate is. And I love her warts and all sharing. She's really honest about her experience of P&D, post-Natial depression, her anxieties and yes, her stories are brilliant. If you don't watch them, give her a follow and check them out. But Kate, hi. What a plug. I know. I know. What an intro. I like that you've got the middle name Daisy. It's a really sweet name. It is, isn't it? We thought we'd

give Noah Daisy because her last name is horrendous and her first name is Noah, which confuses everybody when we introduce her as now. Everyone's like, how old is he? And like, well, it's it's our fault. So we thought, well, let's just give her Daisy in the middle. At least she's got one name that everybody understands and can say probably. It's a very feminine name, isn't it? I was once called that in a phone shop at university. I made my way through all the different phone networks. I went to Orange, Carphone Warehouse, and a carphone warehouse. I think there was another Anna, so they called me Daisy. Oh, I love it. Did you? I quite like it. Yeah, I did. So, Kay, the question that we ask all the mums on this podcast is if you could share one thing with

all the mums what would that be um i guess the one thing i would share with all the other mums is um don't believe all of the good bits you see on social media because it's a snapshot of time and it's not necessarily um describing how somebody is really coping so if you feel like shit, you're having a bad day, and you think to yourself, why did I do this? Or I did I do this again? Or I miss my old life. You're probably in company in those thoughts, and a lot of parents will only ever post the highlights of their day, myself included. I am known for being brutally honest and talking a lot about the lows of parenthood. But for example, I went on holiday recently, and I posted all the photos. And I was looking at them and I was like,

I've posted on Instagram so many lovely folks that you'd think we had 100% of the time it was brilliant when it was literally we were on the plane on the way home we were like what percentage of this holiday would you say was like calm and peaceful and enjoyable and what percentage would you say was stressful and like just get me out of here and we worked we both agreed that it was 60% amazing and 40% shit we had two days of rain which you don't expect when you go Spain Noah had fell and smashed a face open on the first day

and then there was tantrums and then there was a whole night where she was up all night and then two days of being like really tired and grumpy so I'm sort of digressing here but the point is in a roundabout way is that we only ever post our highlights on Instagram so if you've been like shit and you go online and you see somebody having a great time

just remember that there's 24 hours in a day so true do you fall into that trap though do you because I fall into the trap all the time And I know this. I know full well that what we see on the gram, for example, is only a snapshot, but I still fall for it. Do you still, do you fall for it as well, yeah. Yeah, I do. But I think because maybe it's the fact that I do therapy, I don't know, I think I'm always like, I'll fall for it, but then there'll be a few seconds.

And then I'll be like, oh, hang on a minute, no, it's not necessarily like this all the time. Just remember what your Instagram feed says. because you know I suffered from post-natal depression. Not everybody does, but I did. And I found the first year of motherhood incredibly difficult. I'm compared to this year, like, I'm in such a good place now. But the first year, now I can really look back and compare. I found the first year so, so challenging.

And yeah, and I think if you look at my grid between the time Noah was born and her first birthday, you'd think that I was okay and that I had a good year with her and that I found it easy. and I was this earth mother and I was doing everything really well but actually I only ever put the highlights on my grid of Instagram and actually it was the stories where I was being really open

and really honest and I was crying and I was asking questions like is it just me or does anyone else feel like this or did you find it this hard and it was the army of friends I have on Instagram that actually made me feel normal

so for all its bad sides I do love social media because it helped me write my book as well a lot of the Q&As I did kind of inspired me to write the book book and be brutally honest about what the first year of parenthood could be like, because it's not like that for everyone. My friend's just had a little girl. She's three weeks in, and she's in a blissful bubble and having the best time. And I am so happy for her, I'm over the moon.

But there was a time when just when she was about to have the baby, I was like, please, please let I have a good one. Please let her, not a good baby, but a good run. You know what I mean? That first few weeks, because for us, it was utter hell. I mean, we were in an out of hospital with A&E trips and stuff like that and now I had reflux and then the breastfeeding became challenging so there's all that to deal with but yeah Instagram you'd think I actually

had a great first year. It's interesting I look back now and I kind of wish I'd been a bit more honest on the grid as well but what do you think held you back from being more honest then on the grid so it was amazing that you felt able to share in those stories and had such

like a brilliant supportive response but it sounds like for you there was a difference like there was a front of house like on the grid and then the stories were a bit more behind the scenes I don't know why I'm still like that now though it's strange it's like I've been kind of it's I think it's just the where we've used Instagram for so long

you become accustomed to like this is my highlights real and then behind the scenes if you want to know more what it's really like it's like ITV2 extra on my stories you get all this shit bits. I love that. But that's, I don't know, that's just how I run, like, there's, there's people out there who don't even do stories. You just have an Instagram grid or others who don't really post on the grid who do stories. It's weird how we all work in different ways. But for me, I don't know, I just felt like the, the Instagram grid was, maybe it's subconsciously

me saying, oh, when I look back, at least I won't look back and feel deeply sad that I had a really shit first year. Maybe I'll look back and only see the highlights. I don't know. but don't you think we don't we we don't need to apologize for needing to express things outwardly in a certain way like sometimes for me um looking like i've had it together is is a defense mechanism it's it's because i haven't wanted to worry people i haven't wanted people to be concerned about me or really truly ask me how i am because then i would be i'd be scared that i would just fall apart and not be able to function not be able to gather myself together for things that I needed to be kind of vaguely gathered together for. So for me, looking like I've had it together has definitely been a coping mechanism in the past. But now I am someone who's quite open and vulnerable online. But I know that it's not, you know, that's not for everyone. And I think we don't owe anyone our vulnerability. No. And I think if we feel comfortable and able to at the time, you know, it can be so therapeutic

both for us and for other people. But I think sometimes there's this, it's almost like a need that everyone needs to be vulnerable so everyone can feel okay, when actually we have to find that for ourselves. Yes, you're right. What you said is so many people will relate to about being, you know, having your,

looking like you've got your shit together, being a defence mechanism. But we all work in different ways. And while others might, you know, I mean, I remember there was one comment, I think somebody screened I wish they hadn't, because I don't read the Daily Mail comments, but someone said it, this is to be funny.

I think it was the answer, actually. I think he sent it to me. It was like a picture of me at a Ven, and it just, someone wrote, she's still moaning about her kid. It is funny. And I was like, oh, fuck off. Like, I know I moaned. I wasn't moaning about her.

I was moaning about the difficulty I was facing with everything that came with being a new mom. But you're right. I don't think we, I think it's, good that people are vulnerable. I think, but I don't think we necessarily have to, like if everybody, if one person wants to just show their, them having their shit together, that's fine. I don't think anyone should be apologetic. But I, here's the thing, before I had a baby, all my closest friends, I wasn't asking anybody on social media, oh, do you think I should have

a kid? I just, because it's not the sort of question I would ask people I don't know that well. And they just said to all of my mates, I tell you now, Anna, all of them said to me, it's the best thing you'll ever do, it's hard, but it's the best thing you'll ever do. And none of them really broke it down into, like, how hard it can be. Nobody was super honest with me about just how low I might feel or the potential of having a postnatal depression. And then when I had no, some of my closest friends who had told me to do it opened up to me. And when I was being honest on the stories and crying and saying, I'm just, I'm not coping, this is just the hardest thing I've ever done. How do I get through the next 24 hours when everyone's telling me, oh, just be

fine, just get through the next year. And then best mates who'd said, I'll just do it, it's great. Then I opened up and said, I was the same. I thought to myself, why don't you tell me? That's why I was, I wanted to use my platform on Instagram to be more honest about what it can be, you know, not necessarily what it will be like, but what it can be like in that first year, because I felt like I wasn't told the truth. Yeah. And I thought, I just want to help other people to know that it can be like that and that's when lots of parents were messaging and saying yes thank you i felt like this years ago but nobody around me was saying that i think because we can have we are blessed if we can have children that there is an expectation that we should love every minute and it's just

bullshit because yeah this is so true though and you can't love everything about everything it's still love isn't it it's almost as if something is hard you don't appreciate it and love it it can be hard and good at the same time. Yeah, no, listen, I think that the fact that more parents are being honest and very relatable now and like you have more books, more new mum books and stuff out there, I just think we need to get people who are on the fence or even they're not sure if kids is for them at all or they're, you know, struggling to conceive and they're on a journey, fertility journey of their own and they're, I still think everybody should be looking at having a child as

like the biggest thing they've ever done and they should take it seriously because I think too many people see cute pictures of babies and go I want one of those is the biggest life like the change of your life you could ever have and I don't think I don't think enough people consider whether they are mentally physically financially and like able to do it they don't but why would you I mean it's just one of those things you it's societal pressure and the expectation of it we all we all grow up and we're presumed that we're all going to get married and we're all going to buy a house and all going to have a family.

But actually it isn't for everybody and that's okay. And if you really do your research, which I, I mean, I definitely did my research and I waited until I was ready. But I think if more women especially, because, you know, we're the ones that have to, you know, grow a baby, birth a baby, a feed a baby if we can and, you know, pick up most of the responsibilities, I think if more people did more research, then they might think to themselves, am I going to be okay mentally if I do this? Am I going to be okay financially or physically? Because I definitely wasn't ready mentally, but I thought I was because I had a great pregnancy. And I thought because

I'd waited so long and I got everything out on my system that I needed to, I would smash it from day one. But you just don't know what kind of child you're going to have and you don't know what kind of experience you're going to have in the first year. You don't know if you're going to be able to breastfeed. You don't know if your child's going to be healthy. You don't know if you're going to be in an out of hospital. It's such a big unknown. And yeah, I guess I just I want to push more parents to just really consider. That's why I'm being brutally honest with my mates. I'm like, when they're pregnant, I'm like, listen, I just want to let you know, it can be shit. But hopefully you won't have what we had and you won't need to like, you know, get therapy, get

medication, get hire a doling for help. I think because we had a baby in lockdown and we didn't have any family over because of the whole bubble situation, it made, you know, it worse because we didn't have that support that so many people often have when you first have a baby. Yeah. But I think you're so right. It's almost like making an informed choice, isn't it? Because when I have my kids, I never really thought that much about having toddlers or school age children or teenagers. I just thought about having a baby. Everyone does that. Everyone does Everyone just thought things about having a baby. Yeah.

And I remember when my middle child had silent reflux, I didn't even really know, I didn't even know what that was. I couldn't advocate for myself because I didn't really know what that was. I'd speak to doctors, they would say, oh, he's just, you must have had a really easy first baby. These just unsettled. I'm like, really, is it normal not to get any sleep at night and have a constantly screaming child? I couldn't advocate for myself because I didn't really know. what it was and I remember getting intrusive thoughts because of the sleep deprivation of

dropping him down the stairs and even throwing him down the stairs because it was just so the whole thing was just so excruciating I if I hadn't got the knowledge that I have around mental health and intrusive thoughts and anxious thoughts I would have been utterly horrified and ashamed and probably not told anyone because I would have been fearful of judgment or them I'm thinking I didn't love my baby, want my baby. But it's just, so I hear you. And I think it's on hearing the stories of other people that it starts chipping away at that shame that we could so easily have because we're not always informed.

No. And we don't want to scare each other, you know, don't want to worry each other. Or this could happen to you. Yes. It'll change the way people walk into it. But then it's a double-edged sword, isn't it, really? Yeah. There's a fine line.

I think I, well, well, and firmly cross the line. I think I'd go the other way. It should maybe be a little bit more. But, you know, I post videos from Noah showing how wonderful it is now, even though it is, like, also very difficult. Like, if you had a camera on Noah and I from 7 a.m. this morning, it's been a really shit day. I thought I was actually going to burst into tears when I joined this call. She had just woke up. She actually slept through the night and woke up at half seven.

I was like, I am so lucky. she woke up and she'd just been crying all day and I can't I'm trying to ask her why and she's not able to tell me but she's there's no pain she said there's no pain she can actually tell me if there's pain but she's been crying all day and everything is a drama like she wanted to take two of her comforters to the doctors to get her polio rooster said let's just take one just you know it might drop one it was like world war three she's every like the tears the tantrums this morning that we've had have been I just got home and I was thinking to myself Like this is one of those days where, and that's what I was saying about, I think going back to social media, like I, when I haven't been totally honest, it's actually been because of time because actually if your child, like today, I haven't done much social because she needs me. She's upset. She's crying. I can't be like putting a camera in her face going to say hello to Instagram. But you have to focus. Yeah, she is my number one and she is the priority. So you have to kind of, just like as soon as she started eating her lunch, she was okay. Maybe she was just hungry.

Maybe I didn't give her enough breakfast, idiot. But it does get so much better, but like the sleep deprivation is the one thing that's the worst. Like you, like you say, with the silent reflux, no, I had it with reflux. So we weren't getting any sleep. And, you know, I went to a second birthday party today. There was a little baby who was three weeks old. And I heard someone say, oh, is he sleeping once? She went, yeah, and he waking one through the night.

I felt like I was saying, bullshit, is he waking one through the night? he's three weeks old but maybe he was and you know what i am so happy for that person to be getting a good night sleep with just one wake-up call in the middle of the night because what that didn't happen until she was like nine months old nine months yeah yeah and everybody is different and some some babies do just sleep straight away but like wow to think that that woman was just like yeah once in the night three weeks how much milk was that baby guzzling before they went to bed right Anyway, no, thank you. Thank you for all that you bring and the honesty because it frees it up in other people and you will be getting those messages because it's a powerful thing that happens as you do that. But to finish off, I've got some quick fire questions, just a handful. I know. I don't think I told you about this, did I? But just in a few words, what's a motherhood high for you? Now we're talking.

Oh. Noah talking is the biggest high I have ever felt. When she speaks, my heart wants to just burst out of my body. And she copies everything we're saying at the minute. And to the point where she's like emulating my laugh now. She did, she said handbag the other day because I told her I had a handbag. She went handbag. And I started laughing. And I've got an awful laugh. And then she started going handbag. And then it was just, yeah, Noah talking. Oh, amazing. Yeah, it's lovely when they emulate and then sometimes you really wish that they wouldn't. Please don't say that. Don't say what I just said. Never say what I just said. And what's a motherhood low for you? I guess when Noah was refusing to breastfeed, that would be a motherhood low because it was a rejection. I felt like I had milk there. She didn't want it. It was confusing. I didn't know enough about why she might not be able to latch or why she didn't want my milk, but she wanted it out of a bottle. I didn't know enough at that point.

Definitely the breastfeeding challenge was a motherhood low. So far. I don't think we'll get another low that bad. Oh, well, thank you for sharing that. And what's one thing that makes you feel good? Anything? Oh, exercise. It does. Even if you don't want to exercise, whenever I've exercised, I feel good. I'm running an under marathon this Sunday. I cannot date. Yeah. Goodness me. I can't. I can't wait. I'm not going to run it very fast, but I'm going to run it. I'm doing it with the RSPCA. And I'd never want to train, but when I go out for a run when I've finished, I feel good. I've never felt shit after a workout. So, yeah, it might be a bit of a boring answer to your question. No, I like it. I'd say similar. So, and then finally,

how would you describe motherhood in three words? You give me the look everyone gives me when I say that. It's hard three words. I know, sorry. Can I have four? Yeah, yeah. Best and worst thing. Oh, I love that. Can I just put, like, and it sounds awful, but it is the best thing and the worst thing I've ever done. Sorry, I'm going to say, best and worst. Best and worst, but it is the best thing I've ever done, but it's also been the worst.

And not just saying, like, people are going out of order for saying that, but when you put it into context, like, it has been the worst thing at times for certain reasons and also the best. Yeah, yeah. Again, I'm feeling like I have to justify my answer. I know. Always got to come out. I love my child. I love my child. Okay, we can just collectively agree that we love our kids and that is the foundation and the main emotion. Then everything else is if you have to enjoy parenting all the time. Well, thank you for making us feel normal in that and for, yeah,

for all your honesty. And thank you for chat with me today. Thank you, Anna. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to today's episode of The Therapy Edit. If you enjoyed it, please do share, subscribe or review because it makes a massive difference to how many people it can reach. You can find more from me on Instagram at Anna Martha. You might like to check out my three books, Mind Over Mother, Know Your Worth, and my new book, The Little Book of Calm for New Mums, grounding words for the highs, the lows and the moments in between. It's a little book you don't need to read it from front to back. You just pick whatever emotion resonates to find a mantra, a tip and some supportive words to bring comfort and clarity.

You can also find all my resources, guides and videos, all with the sole focus of supporting your emotional and mental well-being as a month. They are all 12 pounds and you can find them on anamatha.com. I look forward to speaking with you soon.