The Therapy Edit - One Thing with Liv Thorne on how there's no right answers

Episode Date: June 30, 2023

In this Friday guest episode of The Therapy Edit, Anna speaks to solo parent and author, Liv Thorne about how there's no right answers in parenting.Liv chose to become a parent alone with the help of a sperm donor and she honestly shares her journey of parenting alone on her Instagram and also in her book, Liv's Alone which you can buy here.

Hello and welcome to The Therapy Edit with me, psychotherapist, mum of three and author Anna Martha. Every Friday, I invite one guest to tell me the one thing they would most like to share with mums everywhere. So join with me as we hear this dose of wisdom. I hope you enjoy it. Hi, everyone. Welcome to today's guest episode of The Therapy Edit. Today I am delighted to have with me, someone that I've been following for years on the gram, following her story. So I have got Liv of Lives Alone. And on her Instagram, I just thought,

I'm just going to read out her Instagram bio because it says it all. She said, I wanted a baby. I was single. So I bought some sperm. A baby was born, just like that. And then she's got my favorite kind of face emoji, which is like that, that kind of wonky face. It's like, you know that one? Live is, passionate about sharing stories about parenthood beyond the usual roots because there is more than 2.4. She said she's got a book called Lives Alone, The Amateur Adventures in Solo Motherhood. So welcome. Live, hi. How are you? How are you today? Hi. Hi, Anna. Good. Thank you. Well, you know, I'm all right. Not bad. Just got back from the school run.

There was traffic. You know, just the standard. I'd love to say something fun. Just on the school run there was traffic i'm late i feel like i feel like i know you as is the old instagram thing yeah yeah saying and it's weird though um how you do just totally feel you know someone that you've never met you don't really know that intonation or anything because you've never seen them in real life but it's like there's a knowingness isn't there when you when you followed people on social media and you watch their videos and and all the things that you share about the the challenges and just the, yeah, real life for you. So thank you for all of that.

Yes. But the question that we ask here is, Liv, what is the one thing that you would love to share from all your experience and wisdom in the juggle with the mum's listening today? Your experience and your wisdom and all of that. My one thing

would be that there is no right answer for any of it. Whether that is what, you know, if you were me, what sperm you donor you chose, or what time, when's the best time to have a baby? Or what's the best time to potty train your child? Or when should I start weaning? Or what school should I take them to? Or there's literally no right answer. and life is constantly a sliding doors moment I guess

that what's right one day isn't like the next and what's right for you definitely won't be right for me and just everything is a kind of best guess game and that's kind of all you can do. God, if there was a right answer, we'd all be totally fine. It would be the dream. I'm filled as you say these words with an equal amount of horror and hope.

You know, I think we just want to get it right. We seem to have this obsession with, you know, all the forums, all of those questions that you said. Or everything all the time. Thousands and hundreds of thousands of web pages of people just kind of mulling over and trying to get to the bottom of the right thing to do in all of those situations.

Yeah. About everything. Yeah. And there is no, and I had to come to terms of that quite early doors specifically when I was choosing a donor because when I was choosing, it wasn't like when I'd chosen, there was suddenly someone going, yeah, tick, well done, you got it right. This is the perfect DNA for your DNA, you know, go.

It was just, and it still is like, oh, I mean, of course I think I chose the right donor because my son's ace, but is it correct? Who knows? You just, it's just, everything is a guess and game and a lottery. and the earlier I learnt that, the easier I found everything. Like, I don't have any expectation. I mean, herbs five now, so it's slightly different. You're not rooting around France as quite so much

as you are as the first parent in the early days when you're, well, I was like desperate for answers for anything, sleep, feeding, all of it. And as soon as I realised that, There are no milestones, a sort of milestones-ish. But I couldn't tell you now how old Herb was when he started walking or any, you know, I don't remember any of that because actually it didn't make any difference. And I think comparison is something we have to be really careful of.

And I, like, I don't care now. I don't, Herb is still in nappies at night. It's fine. It doesn't bother him. It doesn't bother me. He won't be 18 still in nappies at night. I honestly don't care. He can't ride a bike yet because he's not interested in it, but all of his friends can.

He's not bothered by it, so why should I be? You know, it's that kind of, we put these mad milestones and just we sort of track their movement the whole time of what we think they should be doing or what someone down the road's son or daughter or a kid or whatever is doing two years before yours. And it literally makes no difference. Like, are they good, kind, nice kids? Yes, Ace. Can he ride a bike? No.

But is he still a good, kind, nice kid? Yes. So we have this comparison thing that, and it's the same as you were saying, like we could go on to a billion forums, which actually I would never do because that amount of information would blow my mind. I would still never find the thing that said,

oh, live 44 Oxford, this is your answer. You need to choose B2 and everything will be fine, everything, you know, there is still none of that. So the quicker, for me, the quicker I learned, that I've just got to do my best. I've just got to make sure my son knows he's loved. I've got to do what I can to hope that he's healthy and to make him safe. But other than that, there are no right answers. It's all guesswork. And that's the same for my life, too, not just for him.

It's like it's all absolute guesswork. and the sooner I came to terms with that, the better. And I think, yeah, I'd love to have told pregnant me that... Would you have listened? There are no right answers. Just try your best. To be honest, at the time, I'd listen to anything. I was so desperate for to learn, to know,

to make sure I was doing everything right, you know, in inverted commas. that yeah I would but then you take everything on I mean you know one simple question to any mother or any two mothers will have two entirely different answers so you're always sat in the middle

going Christ was Anna right when she said that always live right when she said that there's this you will never be like no I definitely need to do that because it was right for Anna so it will definitely be right for me like that's also kind of madness

because then you're never thinking about what is right for you. I probably wouldn't put myself in Anna's shoes. I'd be like, oh, it was right for Anna because she's got a husband and, la la, but I don't. So maybe it would be different for me. You just think, I did that. So I should probably do that.

And, you know, and I just think, yeah, that is where madness lies. It is, but I'm just thinking about all the books on my shelf and I have so many books that tell me that there's a way. You know, there's a way. And I think there have been times when, desperation I've reached for a book on this is the right way to win. This is the right way. And there's something confident in that.

But then, you know, some things that worked for one of my kids certainly did not. I've had to learn totally different ways. Wouldn't work for another. Yeah. And I remember I thought I'd done a good job the first time around because everything was quite straightforward. So I thought that was me. That's me.

I've done a good job. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to replicate. I've done that the second time around. And then, because I'd taken the owner's totally on myself, when it all went upside down and wonky and nothing was the same, I thought that was my fault. Do you see what I mean? I blame myself.

Yeah, 100%. And actually it's because you're raising three very different children. They're all brought up by the same parents and in the same environment, but they're three different, their own entity humans. and so everything will be different again. And yeah, like the book thing, I always look for books. I still do. But what I again learned was that I could take as much information as I needed from those books

to apply them to my life rather than being like that they were an instruction. You know, because they kind of can't be. How much do you think this has to do with confidence then in that sense of your own kind of internal feeling of whether something is for you or not. Because I think, you know, if I look back, I've had a lot of fear of getting it wrong. And I think that's because that inner critic has come, you know, and essentially kind of bullied me for failing. So actually, as I've grown in confidence and self-esteem, that doesn't happen quite so much. Oh, definitely. And I was very much in inverted commas a geriatric mother

because I had her when I was 38 and most, not most, but many of my friends started having kids at sort of 26 so I was an auntie from the age of 13 so I've had children around me all my life and I think that having a child later I was more confident than perhaps I would have been

if I'd have had one slightly younger for me purely because I'd learned so much from my friends, which gave me a sort of confidence, yeah, because they'd allowed me in their lives when they'd had kids and that sort of thing. So you kind of learn from your peers and your environment. So that was a confidence thing with me because I had seen, I don't know, how you swaddle

or something like that, which perhaps if I hadn't have seen that, if I hadn't have been around people, yeah, then it is that confidence thing. but as a person I'm not confident at all but as a mother I'm really confident weirdly because I don't know why I think that I just think I

I know what I have to do as a mum and that is to keep him safe to keep him happy to keep him as healthy as I can within my what's the word realm of ability realm of yeah yeah Yeah, exactly. Within my abilities, obviously I can't always keep them healthy. And to me,

they are the one thing I know to be true, that I have to do that. And as long as I'm always trying to do that, that's kind of okay. I will screw up, already have, definitely will continue to do so. I will always be an embarrassing mum. I will always, you know, just all those things. And I definitely will screw up. Of course I will. Because I'm a human parent. But as long as I strive to always do those things, that's all I can do. But there is no one right route to get to those things at all, I don't think. So we have to find out that kind of internal sense of this, this is okay, this is enough. I'm not doing anything overtly wrong.

I'm trying my best. Yeah, I'm not trying to screw him up. But yeah, I'm doing my best. I'm not trying to do anything wrong. I'm trying to do everything right. Things will fall out of place. I'm not taking it so personally when they do. And it's proof somehow, I think this is where self-esteem comes into it.

If I'm constantly questioning myself and then something goes not how I was expecting or I make the wrong decision thinking I was making the right, that's what all the forums tell me to do, then I'm going to take that quite personally when actually... 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It isn't. It's a product of circumstances. that's an environment and all that sort of thing, nine times out of ten.

And we've got sort of control over any of that. And so, yeah, I mean, it's taken, I am 44 now. It's taken me 44 very long years to learn all of this. But yeah, I just think the quicker you realize a lot of it is out of your hands. And that no one can say, live, this is what you must do to make everything perfect and to make a herb the happiest child in the world. then the easier and less stressful your life's going to be. And I try and keep life quite, I don't know how to explain,

like middle of the road. I don't always want us to have highs and I don't always make us go out all weekend. You know, I don't, he doesn't have the luxury of being entertained 24 hours a day. He has to make his own fun, that kind of, you know, because I think that otherwise that I'm setting an expectation for him that someone will always be around to entertain him or will always be going to a thing

or getting another door or whatever he is. Yeah, pressure on us, pressure on them because then the more effort we put in, the more pressure there is for them to be grateful and enjoying it. And I can't even remember my parents playing with us that much. They were around. Like, no, no.

yeah i mean i remember sitting in a pub car park i'm i'm an 80s kid so i was in a car in a car in car park and my dad would bring out a bottle of coke and a packet of crisps you know and that was totally cool that's what happened and no one battered an eyelid whereas now if you did that imagine the uproar and we're kind of all okayish i mean we're all a bit mad but our kids are a bit mad it's it's just the cycle at all and and every there'll be things that we do now that when our kids are parents how you believe how shocking yeah how shock it can you believe they did yeah how shock it can you believe they did that and yeah that will always be the case because there is no and we will fail our children we will fail our children we will also mess up our children and that is the very nature

of being humans bundling along trying to do the best we can with what we know and that's terrifying it's terrifying that we know that but it's best that we know that

I think so that it's not such a large cliff to fall off when we realise it because yeah parenting is it's wild

and actually we're just bloody lucky with parents yeah so how do you deal with it then when some of these opinions come at you externally social media wherever honestly yeah you don't care i don't care i love that no it's really weird i just like i say as a person i'm not confident if if they said anything about me live like oh you shouldn't have those classes or whatever i'd be like terrible i'd be like oh god what Whereas if they said something about, oh, God, I can't believe, I don't know, whatever, Herb doesn't ride a bike, I genuinely don't care because I know I'm doing my very best for Herb.

I know he's a good kid with a kind heart and, you know, he says please and thank you and all those sort of things or whatever barometer people decide is good. and honestly I'm very much tapping word here no one's ever I've never had judgment from people really you know no more than any

no more than my friends would get to me if I'd done something or oh you know and occasionally he wears a lot of pink people seem to care about that but that's people in the garden centre you know going oh it's boy but he's in a pink jumper. Yes, that is correct. Do you know what I'm just so I'm so not that

I'm a great mother or I'm a perfect mother or any of that. I just know that I'm trying my best. I know that for him I am doing everything I can. So you could say whatever you like to me about that and my decisions I don't care because I've got a force field around me. He's my magic power and I will do everything to make sure that he stays magical and no one else can infiltrate that to me. So true. Well, thank you. Thank you for that nugget of wisdom. And it's just lovely hearing your reflections on that and where this confidence comes from and how we can be confident. Well, I think, you know, as you said, you have been around children a majority of your life. You have a lot of lived experience and you know. You know,

and you've seen different ways of parenting, probably different ways of other people growing through their parenting journey. And you know that it's really all about doing what feels right. At the time. And with the knowledge that you have and the experience that you have. So thank you. I have got some quick five questions for you to finish off.

Ah, okay. Ah, I didn't tell you about this. Normally I do. What's a motherhood high for you in a couple of words? I can't say anything in a couple of words, I'm a motherhood having my son. A couple of sentences. Having was, like, I wanted a kid for so long and I tried so hard to get him and I, yeah, yeah, having him, he's my parenting, hi. Yeah, and a parenting low?

Having him. No, I don't mean that, but the first three months, I was blindsided, like, and so going back on everything I said earlier about seeing loads of my friends and my siblings have children and I thought I knew what was coming. I had no idea what was coming. And I found that first three months brutal. So that, but ever since then, it's been good. Well, I mean, obviously, you know, generally good. Those early months. Yes.

And finally, what's one thing that makes you feel good? Oh my God, that is the hardest question. Sleep. I am so with you. I'm not going to, so sleep and any form of potato. Not together at the same time. The chips, the crisps, mash. Mash, roast, whatever.

But, yeah, sleep. I prioritise sleep over everything. I couldn't function if I didn't sleep. So if ever Herb isn't with me, he's at my sisters or something, you know, people are like, what are you going to do? Are you going to go out, rave it, whatever? I'm like, no, I'm 44, I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to put a sleep mask on.

I'm going to go to bed. um yeah so that's it no i'm with you i said well last night so i honestly feel like a different version of myself exactly a better version very much well thank you so much and people can find you on instagram as at lives alone and then your book of the same name i highly recommend the same name for people to dive into your story um yeah so thank you so much you're so welcome Wonderful to talk to you. Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much for listening. Please do take a moment to subscribe, rate and review as it really helps get these words out

to benefit more juggling parents like us. And head to anamatha.com to find my resources on everything from health anxiety to people pleasing starting at only £20. And finally, don't forget to pre-order my new book, Raising a Happier Mother, How to Find Balance, Feel Good, and see your children flourish as a result. I can't wait for you to have that. Take care and we'll chat soon.