The Therapy Edit - One Thing with Matt Coyne on why moaning is just fine

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

In this guest episode of The Therapy Edit, Anna chats to author and comedian Matt Coyne about his One Thing; why it's always ok to have a moan.Matt's advice to parents all around the globe is ...'Complain! Its fine, its healthy, its good. In fact.. I reckon its vital.'Follow Matt on Instagram here.Matt's incredible debut novel, Frank and Red is out now and you can get your copy here.Man vs Baby’s Matt Coyne is from Sheffield, South Yorkshire.  In September 2015, Matt’s life was turned upside down by the arrival of his son Charlie. After three months of parenthood, he logged on to social media and wrote about his experience of having to live with ‘a furious, sleep-murdering, unstable and incontinent, breasts-obsessed midget lodger’.Alongside Frank and Red, Matt has written two Sunday Times bestselling books based on his parental triumphs and disasters, the first entitled: ‘Dummy’ and the second ‘Man vs Toddler’.He has also written for The Guardian, The Telegraph and GQ Magazine and is the current Vuelio Parenting Influencer of the Year and Blogosphere Parent Influencer of the Year.We hope you love the listen. Don't forget to rate and share.

Hello and welcome to The Therapy Edit with me, psychotherapist's mum of three and author Anna Martha. Every Friday, I invite one guest to tell me the one thing they would most like to share with mums everywhere. So join with me as we hear this dose of wisdom. I hope you enjoy it. Hi, everyone. Welcome to you today's guest episode of The Therapy Edit. I have with me today, Matt Coyne, of Man versus Baby. So Matt, a bit about Matt, I actually discovered Matt years and years ago. When did you, Matt, when did you start sharing bits on Facebook?

When Charlie was born pretty much, so 2015, 2016. Do you know what? That is why, because my son was born at the end of 2014. So we must have been kind of in the thick of it. And then I had my second son in 2016. So we must have been in the thick of it. You know, it was the nappy stage. And I think it was a really long Instagram, no, Facebook post, and it was all about, I don't know if you were on an aeroplane or something, it was about a nappy change and it just totally unraveled and it was hilarious. And it was so relatable. And I think I followed you from that point. So it's actually been many, many years that I've followed you.

Just your humour, really enjoy your honesty about parenting and fatherhood. But for those who don't know you, if they've been living under a rock, I'm going to share. You're a little bio that I've got here about you. So Matt is from Sheffield. He lives in South Yorkshire with his partner, Lindsay, their son Charlie and a Jack Russell with issues called popcorn. Matt has grown a following on social media, sharing his honest accounts of fatherhood, along with amazing humor. He is an award-winning parenting blogger, has a social media profile called Man versus Baby. He is the author of newly released. So I think when this is out, Frank and Red Will will be out into the world,

whereas we speak, and it's coming out on Thursday. Am I right next Thursday? Yeah, Thursday, so you're all like revving up with publication. But when this podcast is out, it will be out in the world. It is a novel. It is about, I've got a copy on my shelf. I've loved it. Frank is a grumpy old commodgian.

He is a recluse whose only company is the ghost of his dead wife, Marcy. He is estranged from his friends, his son and the ever-changing world beyond his front gate. He doesn't really venture beyond until Red moves in next door. And it's warm, it's funny. It's, yeah, just the beauty of the relationship between kind of grumpy old Frank and Young Red. So I highly recommend that you pick up a copy. But Matt has also written for The Guardian, Private Eye and GQ magazine. And he is currently on tour and I've been grilling him about this with his first stand-up show, Man vs. Baby, Trolls and Tribulations. So, Matt, welcome. You're a busy man. It's all revving up.

Yeah, that's quite an introduction. That sounds like I'm busy, whereas on a daily best, it just feels like I don't do anything. Well, the words say otherwise when you hear it all, when you hear it all read out. Yeah, it's a funny one, isn't it? But you have been busy because your book's coming out. You've been on, you're on tour. do you send that comedy which is new to you very new yeah i only started in in in august with the first gig in in sheffield which went better than expected so i just booked a load more in hoping that people turn up and thankfully people seem to be enjoying it and and uh and turning out so it's pretty much sold out mostly everywhere it's just it's a lot it's a lot of fun if you can if if you can get a ticket

come on come along sounds amazing you proper enjoy it's really i would enjoy it because i i love I love for humour, and you were saying before we click, click record that writing the novel has been, it's quite a lonely process, isn't it? It's quite an isolated process. So doing the tour, just immersing yourself in a company of people and having a laugh must be quite a good antidote to that. Well, no, for a start, you have to put trousers on to go outside. Do you mind? Would you rather not? It's less, less comfortable, whereas kind of sitting around writing all the time. You just, I think you do get into a really insular mindset. set and you do stop, it does get quite lonely, I think. I'm quite lucky in that I've got a really a great family and friends in a good circle, but day to day, just staring at a screen,

it can get a little bit, you know, mess with your mind a little bit, but which is one of the reasons why I book to stand up to her in, just because I was getting so used to being on me on and staring a wall. I thought, I'm going to go the complete opposite and just immerse myself in a couple hundred people, which is the most stupid thing to do, but I've got to be honest, I absolutely love it. And it's a great little balance I've got at a minute. I'm really loving what I'm doing right now. So do you think you'll do more then? So you're, you did one and then you booked another one a couple of weeks later because it went so well. Yeah, so I'm doing Glasgow next week. I've done a couple in Bristol, Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham. So I'm all over

the place really. And they'll all run out in round about June. But I'm already looking at venues to extend it for the year and change it a little bit. So, So yeah, hopefully I'll do it for the rest of the year at least, and then maybe go again if people aren't bored. I'm so exciting. No, they will not be bored. They will not be bored. So you kind of lived for a year in novel life,

just kind of immersed in Franken Red. And are you now seeing life through the lens of comedy? I mean, you always have really, haven't you? But are you now thinking, because I often find when I'm really stuck in doing reels and this, everything I'm doing I'm seeing through this lens, like, how can I communicate this, like this? How can I? So you just, is your mind busy with jokes now? I think it always has been, to be honest. I've always been right. You know, classic sort of smart ass in a pub, that's always been me really. So I've always got, in that, yeah, I mean,

I'm always looking for that for the gag. That was one of the tricky things about writing the novel. It's one of the things that they said to me very early on, was I tried to write it about the nonfiction and try to kind of like get a gag in every paragraph. And after reading like 2,000 words, um, my agent and Edson will literally like, you can't, you can't do that with a novel. It's very funny and everything, but it gets really old really quickly. And I realized, oh yeah, that's like me and a pup. I get really old really quickly. Me and Lynn's my other half. We've been together for 30 years now. Wow. And, um, and yeah, this shtick that is funny when you see a post every couple of days on Facebook. Trust me, if you live with it day in, day

Yeah, it gets really, really old. And I realized that right in the novel that, you can't do that. You can't just have gag after gag after gag. So it's got to be all about the story and the character. Make it funny where, you know, where you can, but you just don't batter people with the jokes. Again, the standard was useful for that because anything that I couldn't use in the book, I could just text straight into the stage. Yeah, it wasn't lost.

Nothing's wasted. It wasn't lost. Well, the book is funny. It's that kind of warm, that warm funny. And it's in the nuances of their relationships and the nuances. about just how Frank goes about his life and how he's thinking and what he's seeing and yeah so it is funny it's really warmly funny well thank you thank you very much i know you provided a nice quote for the for the cover as well so i really appreciate that as well

but someone described it to me on that on there was a review a review that appeared this morning that said it was um it was like up you know the Pixar film up for rivals and that is the greatest you know compliment i can't wait for it to be out. So, yeah, we've already got two Sunday times best-selling non-fiction books. So here's... Yeah, not bad. So far, so good. So you are a busy man, Matt. You are a busy man. But I'm going to throw another question. So the question that I ask all our guests here is, if you could share one thing with all those listening, what would that one thing be? Well, I thought really hard about this. And I'm going to go with Mone.

complain. Absolutely. And do not, for a second, feel the need to, you know, to justify your moaning and complaining about the crap bits of parenting, because it's entirely natural. The reason why, can I, can, do you mind if I read you something? Because this is, right, so this is why I feel so strongly, strongly about it. And it's, and I can't really articulate it better than I did at the time. but basically what happened was I did a book event a few years ago in Cheltenham and there was a Q&A at the end

and a lady stood up at the end and her question was do you even like kits? That was a question. It was a really snarky question and I remember thinking at the time well I tried to come up with this

some sort of witty response and I couldn't I was just so taken her back but she followed it up by saying because you complained so much about being a parent I wondered if you even like kids. And, again, didn't really have anything to say to it. So on the way home, I had that, do you know that French thing, spirit of a staircase, they call it Lespri Lascallier.

It's this idea that you come up with a perfect thing to say. Always. It's so annoying. Exactly. So on the train on the way home, this is what I wrote. Everybody in, remember, I told me, because this is what I actually. So I wrote this. I thought, what I wish I'd said to this lady is this.

love is not a word that can hold in its pathetic consonants and vowels the way that I feel about my son he is the only perfect thing I will ever create but just because this is true that does not mean he can't be a dick when it comes to putting his shoes on it's not a contradiction to moan about the annoying stuff that children do this does not cast shade on the way that you feel about them they are just the details of that love that brush strokes on a masterpiece so fuck off I love Oh Matt, it's powerful. It's powerful. It's powerful. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely didn't say that at the time. I think I probably said something like,

you know, you're not the wrong room or something. That would have been great, though. Do you know, if you were just that articulate, that would be absolutely amazing. But you have the privilege of putting that out into a large platform that you have built of people who are so relieved at your account of your honest account of fatherhood, where you are basically essentially giving. over half a million people the permission to say, yeah, I love it, but it's also rubbish. I love my kid, but it's okay

that it's a mess and... Well, it's amazing how often we kind of... We always qualify it with it. I love them to bits, but, and then give them... You don't need to do that bit. That's taken as red that, you know, that you love them to bits. You don't have to qualify it with that

because I personally think that complain and moaning and you'll know better than me with your background the value of being able to complain and to share a share I don't think that the thing that unites is necessarily love of you know puppy dogs and sometimes the thing that unites people is complain and something being a bit crap I know the jobs that I've had in the past I've really really got on well with people that I have nothing in common with just because we both hate our boss or just because there's something really crap about a customer or something like sometimes sharing a moan it's the greatest thing you can do.

And I just think, particularly in parenting, because of course you're going to moan, you've got less money, you've got less sleep, you're not eating as well. You know, it's just, there's lots of things that are really rubbish about it. I just think you should be allowed to say that without anybody saying,

well, you should really be grateful. I'm just grateful. I'm bloody grateful, but I'm also annoyed in not pointing to shoes on. And the both can exist. And yeah, finding it hard doesn't discount love. No, absolutely. In fact, there's another thing that I wrote on the page before. This is from a philosopher, like Christopher Marlowe in like, I don't know when it was, years and years ago.

And he put 1592, it is a comfort to the wretched to have companions in misery. I think that's absolutely true. And there's this Unamuno, a Spanish philosopher, whenever I have felt pain, I have shouted it and I have done it publicly in order to start the grieving chords of all the hearts played. Now, I don't doubt that they're not talking about your toddler shitting in a drawer of your favourite pants, right? They're talking about something much more sophisticated than that mature. But it's so true, if you share a problem, not necessarily halved. I don't think that's necessarily true, but it certainly polishes off the edges of it to share something like that. Because then we feel then.

We allow ourselves to feel it, don't we? And we see our experiences reflected in other people and we have it affirmed. And then we feel the feeling. and then it moves through us otherwise we just suppress it all we force ourselves to smile and say that we're just loving every minute and in truth

a lot of it is just hard and messy and question ourselves it's lovely you put it that way actually the idea of it passing through you I think that's a really really nice way of thinking about it it's like electricity sometimes you have to ground it in somewhere and sometimes by sharing somebody

it's a really really lovely way of thinking about it I think. Yeah. Otherwise we just feel guilty, don't we, for feeling these things. And I love the word. I often say that one of my favorite words is and, you know, it's the and rather than the but. You know, this is hard and it's a privilege. Absolutely. Because I think what we often do is like, it's hard, but don't look at that. Look at this. I love my kid. All right. Everyone, okay. I think if we could just caveat and just have this world truce on how. having to caveat that we are grateful for our kids, that would just be amazing. Yeah, just a blanket qualification.

You can say whatever you want. It's just assumed that you love them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And everything else, you're allowed to say, this is an absolute horrific day. Sometimes it's just a day. Sometimes it's just a thing. But I, there's things that, it is the little niggles that kind of, is the shoes repeating about brushing your teeth and things like that.

If I'm, if the TV's on in our house, right, or the tablets on, I feel basically like Bruce Willis and Sixth Sense. I feel like I'm dead and nobody can see me, basically. Because no matter how many times I repeat the same thing, no one can hear it. And it drives me much. And the beauty of, you say about man versus baby, the lovely thing about being able to share and share that with people

and make them feel better, I'd love to say that that's why I do. But I think sometimes it's to make me feel better. It's made me sort of realize that, because if people come back in the comments and say, oh my God, yes, or oh my God, my day's been 10 times worse. That just makes me feel a load better. So maybe it's quite selfish what I'm doing, but whatever, the effect of it is the same.

I think it is a problem shared. Like I say, moan, complain. It's absolutely fine. Don't qualify it. It's good. It's very, very healthy, I think. And I think that I get so many women message me and say, is there something out there for dads? because I talk about emotional validation, you know, the similar stuff to you.

And I often point people towards your page because this is what men need as well. They need to have their experiences reflected in other people because otherwise, when we're just telling ourselves that we shouldn't feel overwhelmed, we shouldn't be finding this hard. We shouldn't be having this constant repeated argument with our child and we shouldn't be finding that so flipping frustrating. What happens? We just, yeah, there's just a level of shame and it's unspoken about. and we just think everyone else is doing a better job and coping better, and that's no good. Well, no, it is very, very different for men. I'll say that straight off the bat.

And as a stay-at-home dad when Charlie was little and doing the baby sensory classes and the swimming classes and all that sort of stuff, I was usually the only man in the room, really. But it was noticeable straight away the guilt that mum's had that I didn't feel at all. And one of the reasons why I didn't feel that guilt was because I was kind of lauded for turning up and kind of appreciated that he's giving it a go and that sort of stuff. And you absorb that naturally. You kind of like, oh, maybe I'm doing a great job. Of course, I wasn't doing the same job as every bugger else in the room. But there's no doubt that mum guilt is a real thing in a way that dad guilt isn't.

Dad guilt is sometimes a different thing. sometimes it's much more about expectation of the way in which you provide or the way in which these are all rooted and got so far back it's ridiculous but but I acknowledge in Mambus of Tudder in particular that that I can't lay claim to I need to have anything like Mung Guild mumgilt is a very very specific and it's and it's horrible and it's not changing very quickly either if at all but yeah I wrote an entire an entire chapter really on the difference between mum guilt and whether dad guilt exists in the same way and it just doesn't so it's very very easy for me to say moan and complain without qualification and i'm aware

there's a privilege in me doing that being a bloke but uh but i still stand by it i still think you should be able to come back in the i totally i agree and that that is what i love about your work is that you're just throwing it out there and giving other people permission to come back at you with their own, with their own experiences and feelings and opinions. And, yeah, and that in itself is such, it's so good for mental health that you are giving people that's based on that permission. Well, it's, they may not be giving it to themselves. No, true enough. It's a lovely thing, as I say, for me to get it back in the same way. And that's the, it's not necessarily motivation, but it's the one thing that I really, really enjoy about it and continue to do it,

and I don't necessarily have to or whatever. I really, really sort of enjoy it. And sometimes to put on a story when I'm really struggling or an anecdote explains how you're having such a bad day, the comment section, if you don't enjoy what I do, that's absolutely fine. That's your prerogative. Do not deny yourself the comment section of Man versus Baby

because that's where the real gold is. And that's where you can alleviate all kinds of guilt just by going through the comment section. I'll tell you what I can do, one last thing. I can read you something from trolls and tribulations as a standard because I shared an anecdote on trolls on man versus baby about how I'll not go into it now if it's quite a long but basically have a bad day and feeling guilty about it or whatever

and in the comment section people were sharing stuff that had happened to them and some of them are absolutely amazing let me read you all that so this is something Something that happened that day that she's completely about. We were once at Alton Towers queuing for the Go-Jetters ride where my then four-year-old looked up at this family behind us

and completely out of nowhere, she told them my daddy's got a penis but my mummy has got two bumholes and one of them's got a big beard. We then had to just stand in the queue for a whole hour while complete strangers

looked at me like I had a fanny that looked like Brian Blessed. Oh my gosh. things they do the things they say but then having to stand there for a whole hour just poorly for 30 seconds 20 seconds at best in a theme part one as well where you're passing each other how open up floor no oh my gosh so so yeah complain yeah moan and and if you ever feel bad go to the common section in man versus baby you let yourself feel off so much better about your day well thank you thank you so much Matt, for your wisdom and your encouragement, just to, yeah, just to roll with the punches and

not be afraid to talk them out. But before we finish, I'd love to encourage people to go and get a copy of Frank and Red, because it's just brilliant and you will love it. The humor and the warmth, you'll really enjoy that. But to finish off, I'd love to ask you a quick, five question, which one are we going to go for? What is one thing that makes you feel good? And it's not allowed, You can't, not related to laugh though or anything like that, something, something different. Something that makes me feel good. I'd like to say something to, I used to really enjoy sort of walking and things like that, but I've just, that's kind of fallen by the wayside.

If I'm absolutely honest, I love being in a pub with my, with my oldest friends. I've met up with some, some pals from university and not seen in 20 years. last weekend and we just went out and we had a few beers and we just hung out and it was just the best thing and um it's just some you know that some people are a reset and i've got i'm lucky enough to have friends that i don't necessarily see that often but when i see them nothing's changed we fall back in line and it's just a grand reset for me and it's uh just keeps me it keeps me it keeps me happy to be honest it's the best thing it's the best thing i can possibly do therapeutic connection brilliant needed needed needed

Well, thank you so much for sharing. It's been an absolute pressure to speak with me. Oh, Ruth, thank you very much for having me, and I really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of The Therapy Edit. If you have enjoyed it, don't forget to subscribe and review for me. Also, if you need any resources at all, I have lots of videos and courses on everything from health anxiety to driving anxiety and people-pleasing nail all on my website, anamatha.com. And also, don't forget my brand new book, Raising a Happier Mother is out now for you to enjoy and benefit from. It's all about how to find balance, feel good and see your children flourish as a result.

Speak to you soon.