The Therapy Edit - One Thing with Melissa Hemsley on asking for and enjoying postpartum support

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

In this guest episode of The Therapy Edit, Anna speaks to the incredible Melissa Hemsley who shares her One Thing: asking for and ENJOYING postpartum support.Melissa has long been an advocate for making wholesome, healthy food at home and is passionate about providing solutions for people who are scared by the headlines, and keen to make cost- and time- effective changes that help un-process their everyday diet.Her newest book is Real Healthy and it's out now! With 90 recipes such as One-Pot Lazy Lasagne, Cherry Almond Granola, Take-To-Work White Bean Chicken Chilli, as well as ‘build your own’ recipes for UPF-free soups, sandwiches and smoothies. She also offers handy hints for freezing food, and maintaining a well-stocked, useable, and UPF-free store cupboard.Bestselling author Melissa Hemsley celebrates easy and accessible healthy food that everyone can enjoy, as well as a more accessible and sustainable way of eating for everyone. She began her food career as a private chef for actors and bands, including Take That, and has written and co-written five bestselling books, published internationally. She lives in London with her partner and baby daughter. If you would like more information or gratis publicity recipes do let me know.Visit Melissa's website here to learn more and of course follow her on Instagram.

Hello and welcome to The Therapy Edit with me, psychotherapist's mum of three and author Anna Martha. Every Friday, I invite one guest to tell me the one thing they would most like to share with mums everywhere. So join with me as we hear this dose of wisdom. I hope you enjoy it. Hi, everyone. Welcome to today's guest episode of the Therapy Edit. and I have with me a guest that I invited because I learned about her new book and I was excited to get her on because I love everything that she puts out into the world.

Just make me hungry though. Her name is Melissa Hemsley. She is a best-selling author who celebrates easy and accessible, healthy food that everyone can enjoy. And I think that's what we all want, isn't it? We want the healthy, but we want it to be easy and we want it to be enjoyable. Because historically, those things haven't always gone together. But Melissa is also passionate about sharing and encouraging a more accessible and sustainable way of eating for everyone. She began her career as a private chef. I'd not know this for actors

and bands, including Take That and has written and co-written five bestselling books, of which I have a few of hers on my shelf downstairs. And they've been published internationally. She is a long-term supporter of Food Redistribution Charity, The Felix Project, and she volunteers with them regularly to rescue surplus food and to cook for children and the vulnerable. She is an ambassador for mental health mates, the Fair Trade Food Foundation, and women supporting women of the Princess Trust, among many others. And over the last five years, she's been supporting the Food Foundation and School Food Matters. And also, I don't know how she has time for all of this. And then I'm going to tell you in a minute that she's also got a child as well.

she also works on campaigns such as feed the future and free school meals and she regularly appears on daytime TV and radio sharing her ethos about food and also more about the charities that she works with and she's in London and she's got a baby daughter on top of that how old is your daughter now Melissa she is almost one yeah they're not such a baby baby anymore I didn't know that when they turn to one they then become an infant nope is that true am I making an evolution I thought the health visitor said, baby no more. Baby no more.

My kids still argue about who's a junior and who's a child and when you're a tweenager. And when you're a, oh gosh. I sometimes want to be a baby. I know. Rock me, Anna, rock me. Oh, I feel you. Sometimes I think we do just feel really young as mothers, don't you? Where you're just looking around thinking, I don't know what I'm doing?

Can somebody help me and tell me what to do here? I need a mother. Uh-huh. And we were just saying, weren't we were just talking about our lunches. Mine's next to me. It's really garlicy. So it's sort of giving me a garlic headache because it's just it. I'm kind of glad we're doing this remotely right now. Yeah. Well, no, it's like, it's like that kind of like, you know your garlic breath the morning after when you've had some really delicious and garlic eat? Because I made this yesterday, I'm not really selling my recipes very well, but it's

giving me garlic headache. And I would love someone after we finish, not that I'm wishing the next 20 minutes away, but I would love someone to spoon feed me and shush me and then tuck me into my cot. Yeah, just to give you a snuggle. I think there's quite a lot of mothering in the work that you pout because anyone that is giving me inspiration that is easy and accessible and healthy for my family that is literally relieving me of some of that mental load of thinking, how do I do this? What do I do?

That's a bit mothering. It's like you are giving people that care. You're like, I've done the legwork. I've got the experience, this is what you can do. Well, you say that, but my God, I am humbled to the max for mothers, parents, carers because I thought I was busy before. And now, of course, a year on as a mum, as an official mum, I laugh at my busy for myself. And also, you kindly said I'm experienced.

I think I'm experienced in some ways, but I definitely am not experienced for feeding a extra mouthful, an unpredictable mouthful. And I now think the number of times I wrote, you know, in an Instagram caption or in a recipe book or on the telly and like, oh, you can easily whip this up, you know, while you're putting a wash on and doing your homework, because that's what I thought I had absorbed from my friends having babies because I'm the last of my lot to have babies. Now I'm like, I'm so sorry for saying this was simple. So I feel like, you know, I'm at you with my sixth book, I feel like this is the book where I'm starting to get just how busy primary carers are. And I'm sorry for thinking before that my recipes were easy, which I did stand by at the time.

And now I'm like, okay, easier, easier, less washing up, less washing up, less thinking, more chewing and enjoying and digesting. You've given us so much wisdom and amazing feelings and things think about and you haven't even asked you what the one thing that you would like to share with everyone. Having been an avid listener of your podcast for so long, I obviously overthought this to the max. And then I came back to the exact first thing that I thought of, which was asking for, my one thing, asking for and enjoying and deserving, that deserving feeling of postpartum support. Yeah. Asking for enjoying it and knowing you deserve it. And knowing you deserve it.

asking no i mean i think people fall at many of those hurdles of asking for i fell at that one with one of my kids enjoying yeah enjoying and also then feeling like you deserve it you know all of those three things and and did you have to battle with any of those or oh god yes all three of them um all three of them and i i remember asking I remember everybody's saying to me, you must let me know what you need. You must let me know what you need. And I'm someone, one as a private chef and also as someone who loves giving the gift of food, whenever anyone's had an op or having a shitty time, I will go, right, I'm sending you.

If I've got no time to cook, I send them like something foody, like some lovely broth or a veg box that week. Or I do them like an online order of things I know they love and I send it. And that's my way of showing my love. I said to myself, well, I will accept. I will accept some love. for my postpartum, but at the same time I did lots of batch cooking myself. And then every time someone asked, I was like, oh, no, no, no, I don't need you to do anything for me because I've done it all.

And then I thought, why don't I? Because actually, they wanted to. It brought them great joy. And they obviously wisely knew that no matter how much I thought I was pre-planning for my post, pre-planning for the post, it was never going to be enough. A bit of a mouthful. Yeah, the pre-planning for the post. And in the end, even though I did hypno birthing and I did antinatal, I for some reason, and I was really nervous about having a caesarian, and for some reason didn't really plan for the caesarian. I don't know if you necessarily can. So when it happened and I had my caesarean unexpectedly, I then realized, gosh, there's quite a lot more. I mean, having not experienced a vaginal birth, I can't, and I wouldn't be able to know what happened. But,

with my cesarian there was a lot I couldn't do and I had two infections so all of a sudden I actually couldn't do things for myself and my boyfriend and I had blazing rows for about three weeks really um can almost laugh at it now year on about me begging for water and I remember saying to one of my friends please can you just come around and fill up some drugs of water because I just I just can't bear to ask him again for it and explain why I need the water because I was just so thirsty it was the hottest time of year and my friends were like

of course I'll come around and bring you water I would love to bring you water and I thought that's such a silly thing to ask for water from the tap to be brought to me but they did they brought the water it tasted like the most delicious water

I've ever had North London's finest tap water and it was great and that thus ensued the knock on effect of then asking for appreciating deserving um

that the help and long may it live and I accepted all sorts of help dog walking the water I've touched on but I can't tell you how many more times they did accept the water help I

and I found it quite hard to ask for help from my partner too after we'd had the row about the water um I don't know I kind of felt like it was quite hard to know what I wanted ask for it. I mean, I couldn't get my words out. I still don't think I can a year on.

I think I wanted quite a lot of cuddling, but also didn't want to be touched. Is that oxymoron? Have I got the right word? No, it is. I think it's you want that, you want that mothering again, but you're touched out from having a baby. And you know, you've got, you're kind of like physically topped up, but you want to feel held, but not physically, because you've had enough of that. So it makes sense. Yeah. And food became, food and drain. I think became the easiest things to verbalise and for my friends to rally around with. I remember at one point they came over and I started feeding them the batch cooked foods I'd already made. And they were like, stop feeding us.

You made that for yourself. I was like, I can't help it. I need to feed you. So that was a big thing. Accepting help and not then try to bust a gut to give it back. They were like, no, we've actually come to help you. go like stop giving us stuff back such an identity thing isn't it because i guess and i wonder as a chef whether you have always been someone that has created and given because it's a very tangible thing

to be giving people that experience a food and nourishment and it's like a really fundamental need that you're meeting and other people in such a beautiful way to be on the receiving end of that which you've got such an identity of in giving must be like, yeah. I think that, Anna, what about you? Did you accept, enjoy, feel the deserving and appreciation of? Absolutely not. So after my first, it was pretty straightforward and I kind of got by on my own strength.

Like my husband was around, but I wouldn't really let him help or do anything because I was like, it's all my job, it's my job, I'm the mother. And then with my step, but, you know, it wasn't too challenging that that was really problematic. It was my second, he had silent reflux and it was just an. absolute like mess and I very staunchly still carried on refusing everything and just had an absolute crash and it was very humbling and I and as a therapist as someone who's always been like no let's talk about you and that was intertwined with my understanding of what made me lovable and good as a person so having that feeling like that all unraveled and recognizing that I really

needed people and that wasn't weakness or failure. That was just how to be a healthy human alongside people that love you. It was incredibly humbling and that was a lesson for life. So my third postpartum period, I was much more accepting, seeking and enjoying because I knew that that was really important both for my own mental health but also for the health of my kids they needed me to be as well as I could be and that meant other people had to be a part of life and what you need yeah yeah I knew I needed the village but I didn't know how to actually ask for it and also I think speaking of being humbled I think I really wrestled with and I felt the same with my miscarriages I felt like shit until I went through it I then started replaying

the times that my friends had suffered a miscarriage and what their postpartum was like and thinking I didn't I didn't do enough which I know sounds silly but like I was like shit I didn't know it was this hard I wish why didn't I do more and so I kind of felt like I didn't necessarily step up for them

of course I was there in the way I knew how at the time but then I was like I mustn't bother them now they got on with it as if you somehow didn't earn it back there the right for them to be there for you in a way that you weren't able to be there for them because you didn't have the understanding or the insight. But there would have been other people that took that place. And it meant, yeah, and I think that that's friendship as well, isn't it?

No, and we can't always give people what they need, but sometimes they might be able to give us what we need. And it isn't all, it isn't all even. Even Stevens. There is no even Stevens. Who's Stephen? Who's Stephen? Why is even?

Where is he? anyway. Did you and your partner chat postpartum before the first or any before preempting the any, but how, no, how you would support you? No, she thought it's going to be wonderful. Yeah. I just thought it's going to be wonderful. I was very much a type of your personality.

I'm going to read as many books it takes to parent this baby perfectly. and that will be that. And he'll go to work and I'll home make everything and they will eat it all and we'll have a great time. Oh my God. And then you learn. You learn. And then here we are to tell the tale.

We grow, yeah, and it's messy and wild. I mean, I even had a, so I had my mum around. I had a lovely, what my doler ended up doing postpartum, Doola Ing. But I remember she would say to me, let me do that. And I would be like, no. But I didn't mean to be. And now I over, or she would, you know, she very much was, she was amazing. I remember Wimbledon tennis was on, right? The last bit of it. And it was boiling hot. And I had had, I had like,

fans set up anywhere, everywhere, anywhere and everywhere. Every inch of scale. I was basically completely naked, scar, scar flapping about. And I remember one point having to go into hospital quite urgently for an infection and calling up the health visitor who was on her way going, I'm so sorry I can't be there for you. And I'm like basically having like feeling like the shitter than shit that the health visitor was on the bus on the way to me. But I had to go to the fetal maternity support, whatever. because the midwife had come around and gone, I don't like the look of that scar. And I remember just going, oh my God,

and feeling like I was failing because I wasn't fit enough to be there for the health visitor to see me and think I was creating a safe and stable environment for my baby. But anyway, back to my postpartum dealer. I laugh now because she was so patient with me and I remember her holding the baby and me thinking, but she's holding my baby and shouldn't I be holding my baby? And what am I so privileged?

I am I is this just crazy that I'm paying somebody to hold my baby but what she was giving me was the chance to take stock sit on the loo observe my infection because I kept saying I'm fine and I really wasn't and at one point I remember my ankles were three times the thickness um and I was like this has got to be fine and then she was like give me the baby you need to go it you need to go and have that turned out so I think I wanted to say you know I did preempt quite a lot of it thought, okay, I will, I will get a hypostpartum dealer. And even then I struggled to allow myself to actually pay someone and then still not let them take care.

To let them actually take the reins and look after you. And it's that, yeah. And I think mothering a child, we realize quite how much it is important that we get comfortable with being cared for by other people. And often that is, yeah, we're kind of faced them with the fact that that feels challenging. And we're good at many things, but maybe we're not so good at that and there's growth there. So that, yeah, to find that village and often that village is around us. But as you say, it's like they're there, but we don't necessarily have the words to kind of access it.

Yes. And we don't just deserve the village in that first fourth trimester or when the baby is still a baby. I kind of feel like I feel really lucky, but I know I need that village as it morphs now one year on. I feel like my management, you know, I've had a couple of chats with them recently where I've just gone, whoa, I'm really struggling now because I thought it would be getting easier as we stopped breastfeeding as an example, but now I'm planning, I'm going on a book tour, I'm going to be away from my baby for a bit. And I'm just like, whoa, where's my village? Help me. I need to just talk it through with you. Who's looking after my baby? How am I going to look after baby? What's your advice? They're all working moms. And then I'm like, boyfriend, let's sit down with the diary. Let's book in an extra couple's therapy session. We need to work this out. I'm feeling overwhelmed. Yeah. That's so wise. It's so wise to preempt. I think there's a lot of preemptiveness going on here, isn't there? And it's a wise thing to do. And it's a way to kind of, yeah, just. looking at the lives of land and thinking,

thinking ahead and thinking this is how it might feel, this is what it might look like, what can we do to support you? Because if the wheels fall off for you, you know, it affects so many people around you, a little child. Like, I think that's it is that the focus is so often on the parenting

and the child when actually, you know, you're saying, learn to accept support, learn to welcome it and maybe even enjoy it, let alone ask for it. So I think that's, yeah, I think that's really wise. I've got a quick question, Anna.

I don't know if I have to... But my, I kind of, I can't... I wish my boyfriend was sort of under the bed behind me listening in because he would say the preempting, how he would say your, your, as in my, preempting can sometimes turn into

anticipatory anxiety about a situation. And so my mothering of myself, here I am, hugging myself would be to explore that spot where I go, okay, I'm worrying too much about that now. I've got my base of preempting and what might happen, but then I don't need to panic catastrophize into every single plan, right? Exactly, yeah. And I often think about war shelters. So you'd know there was a war. You'd do a really wise thing of knowing what risk that meant. So you'd build a shelter in your garden underground.

You'd build that shelter. You'd stock it out with some tin food. You'd know that it was there. So that is the preemption. That's the planning. That's the wise, the, you know, the wisdom, the sensible. And then the anxiety would be that you just move in. And you're like, I'm just going to stay. I'm just going in now just because it might happen. So if it does happen, I'm already here. And really what you're then doing is you're limiting your experience of life. You're limiting your own freedom. You're shutting things down out of that sense of kind of, yeah, self-preservation. So I think it's knowing that you've got that. plan and it's there and it's in your back pocket and you've got that extra therapy session and you've got those things in place but the more you're kind of like ruminating over it and you're thinking well what if this actually happened you're embodying some of those scenarios that's when that's when that's the anxiety and there are so many tools to kind of help yeah it's calming your body and it is it's that mothering and it's that as we would say to our child you know it's okay I'm here it's all right that's not happening oh I'm

I'm going to play, when this comes out, I'm going to record that little bit. I'm just doing that. I'm playing that over. As my alarm, what did you say? It's okay. It's safe. Okay. It's safe.

And I think really that's what we want to hear. And as mothers, you know, we're saying that a lot. We're kind of holding our, holding our children. And, you know, we need that. We need that too. So it's been amazing talking to you. I honestly think we can fill another like three, four, five episodes. I'll see you next time.

I would love that. But I encourage everyone to. one, two, go and grab, whether this episode's out kind of just before, I'm not quite sure, whether it's out on the 11th of July and it's called Real Healthy, Unprocessed Your Diet with easy, everyday recipes, or just go and look at Melissa's back catalogue of amazing, colourful, just delicious, nutritious books. Oh, thank you. Fill your shells. Fill your tummies. But thank you. Thank you for all that you bring to us.

Oh, thanks for having me. Thanks, everyone. I am so excited to announce that my brand new book, The Uncomfortable Truth, Change Your Life by Taming Ten of Your Mind's Greatest Fears, is available for pre-order now and is out on the 8th of August. And in this book, we tackle some of life's big, unavoidable, uncomfortable truths, such as some people don't like me. I am going to fail. Life isn't fair. Bad things will happen. And in this book, we tackle these big, uncomfortable trees that rob us of so much heads, and energy as we try and control and avoid them. And as we move into a place of radical acceptance of these truths, you will find yourself living more freely and intentionally with more presence

and confidence than ever before. So come on this journey with me and pre-order now at Wardstones in Amazon. We can celebrate together.