The Therapy Edit - One Thing with Robert Douglas on helping Dads step away from a 'supporter' role into one of a main character

Episode Date: May 3, 2024

In this Friday guest episode of The Therapy Edit, Anna chats to digital creator and champion of all things fatherhood, Robert Douglas about his One Thing. Robert discusses how Dads should be supported and empowered to step into a main character role instead of that of a supporting actor.A dad of two, social entrepreneur and advocate for empowerment, Robert provides positive, honest and hopefully insightful takes on what he is learning as a parent that both mums and dads can get onboard with. Robert owns his own production company dedicated to developing talent from under-served communities.You can follow Robert in Instagram here.You can listen to Robert's podcast, Pivotal, here.

Hello and welcome to The Therapy Edit with me, psychotherapist's mum of three and author Anna Martha. Every Friday, I invite one guest to tell me the one thing they would most like to share with mums everywhere. So join with me as we hear this dose of wisdom. I hope you enjoy it. Hi, everyone. Welcome to today's guest episode of the Therapy Edit. I have with me today, Robert Douglas. Now, he is a dad of two, a social entrepreneur and an advocate for empowerment, providing positive, honest and hopefully, and he's written this in his bio, or at least someone wrote this in his bio, hopefully honest takes. But I would say,

having followed Robert for ages, that his takes are really honest and candid and do that powerful thing when you kind of fly by a post and you pause and you are just so grateful. to see your experience reflected in someone else's and it does that powerful thing of kind of chipping away that taboo and shame. So I would like to take out the hopefully insightful takes on what is learned as a parent because they are insightful. So thanks for that, Robert. Thanks for all that you put out there. You also own your own production company dedicated to developing talent from underserved community. So you've got a lot going on. So thank you. You've got a lot going on. You've got a lot intro.

All right. Yeah, loads going on. But I love it. I love every moment of it. You like the variety. Yes, I do. Yeah, I do. It keeps me occupied.

Sometimes it's stressful, but you know, you just swipe aside the stress. Yeah, put that side and carry on. But what do you do? What do you do for kind of rest then in all the chaos? What's your thing that you? So my thing is Lego. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so I love doing Lego just to switch off. You know, it takes ages. I like the big kind of Lego, so it takes a long time. I could just switch off, being told what to do, following instructions, you know, instead of having to think all the time and having to lead, it's, yeah, that's my kind of, like, self-care is Lego. I love that. I wasn't expecting that.

Have, do you do that kind of like adult Lego? Yes. That is incredible. And does it, does your love for Lego predate kids? Or was it kicked off by kids? No, I think as a kid, like I used to love Lego like most kids. But yeah, I think it's a new thing really in the past like year or year and a half. But I love that.

I love that blurring the line of what we often think as adults when we grow up. That's for kids. And actually, like you're finding play, you're playing. You're finding things that so often as we grow up, we kind of, they gather dust, those hobbies, those fun things. I got a scooter for my birthday, not a not a Vespa like that behind you, but like a full micro scooter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I swear I'd seen a neighbour go past on a scooter. And I had this mixture of like, what is she doing?

And also, I actually haven't gone on a scooter for so long. And I'm really fun. it looks really fun. When I got on my birthday, I absolutely love probably like a right plonker, racing around the development with the kids. And I think we need to find those playful things that, you know, unbrand them as childish.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I love your Lego. Yeah. Thank you. But I would also love to ask you with all your different experience, both as a dad of two and an entrepreneur and as a production, what would we call you a production director? You've got a production company.

Yeah, company director, executive producer. Let's call me executive producer. We'll call you an executive producer in all the different experiences and roles that you've played in life. What is the one thing that you would love to share with the listeners? Well, this was really hard, really hard. But I'm a dad and I want to talk about my journey as a dad and what I've learned because like your journey as a father first of all it matters

a lot of times and I want to preface this by saying you know I'm going to talk about from my perspective and from a dad's perspective because that's all I know without comparing without putting dad's experience above mums etc etc because we all know where the balance lies we all know where that where that should lie, but I think a lot of times men often forget that their experience is important, and they relegate themselves to second place. And that's right in some moments, but in others, it can just lead you down the wrong path. And I think that's because, like, society really pushes dads, particularly to, like, a supporting role. So, well, if you think about pregnancy or you decide, you and your partner decide to have a child. You decide to go on this

journey together. You've decided that together. In a traditional world, shall we say, you've decided that together that you want to have, have a child. You do all the plans, etc., etc. And that bit is fine. Then through the pregnancy, you then shift as a dad to a supporting role. So the mum's needs, quite rightly, is at the forefront, you know, she's carrying the baby, you're supporting her. So you're always in this kind of supporting role. And I remember, um, through our first pregnancy, I was like proper stepping up to that supporting role. I was like fully involved, fully invested. What do you need? I remember waking up and, um, and she was saying, you know, I want some mint magnums. I really craven mint magnums. And we had to go, I was going around all the

shops. There was no mint magnums everywhere. I found this quarter shop to get a mint magnum so proud, like proud of myself. But I was fully in that supporting role because I recognize that her kind of needs came first. And then you go through the pregnancy like that, support and support and support. And then when it comes to obviously labor, you're in this weird kind of weird position that you kind of don't know what is happening, but you're sort of disconnected, but you still need to support, but there's nothing you can do. And you have to find your place within in that. And again, you are secondary to the main event. You're always secondary to the main event. So we forget that our journey through those moments really matter. And I remember our second pregnancy, I was in,

we were in, in the labour ward. And my wife went into labour and it was all fine. She had a very quick, very quick labor. Everything was fine. And then it started to go wrong. And I was, I was stood next to her and I was in, almost having this out-of-body experience thinking, this is all happening. It's all going wrong. There's nothing I can do. There's nothing I can do to support apart from hold her hand. Like there's literally nothing at this point. And I was stood there thinking, I'm going to walk out of this hospital without the person.

that I started this journey with, and there's nothing I can do. And I remember the midwife saying, push the red button, just push the red button. And at that point, I snapped back in and I had something to do. You know, I had just a tiny bit of control. I remember pushing the red button thinking I was like,

you know, in the R and I was, you know, I was the main character, push the button. And thank God for the NHS and the midwives, because they swooped in like angels and sorted it all out and flew back out the door, and it was all kind of calm again. So you go through all of those moments as a supporting role to the main character, and then the baby comes home and depending on the route that you take as a family,

whether the mum breastfeeds or whatever it is, you may remain in that support and role for a while. but then you're shifted into main character mode you are a dad you are a leader of a family together with your partner you are leader of your children together with your partner so but society is still pushing you back into that supporting role one of the things I really dislike is this hapless dad narrative that is all over the place you know a man can't change a nappy or can't do this and it's all funny and look at him you know he's a dad trying to trying to do a mum's job and it really all through that process it's pushing you into this supporting role and you never

stop to think actually what kind of dad am I what kind of role model am I what's happening on my journey what are the moments that are difficult I mean I just spoke about a difficult moment then and it's still difficult to to talk about now because I haven't necessarily processed or I didn't get to process that because I was always supporting. I was always supporting. So I just think it's really important that partners as well check in with their partners with the dads because we as well push our feelings aside. You know, even as men, a lot of men find hard to talk, we push our feelings aside. And then it kind of bottles up and we don't quite know where to go. And yeah, and then you're kind of in this position where you're trying to figure out,

okay, I've been supporting, but now I need to lead. I've stepped up to, you know, main character with my partner. And then you go to work and your boss says, where's your wife? Why can't your wife look after the kids? your wife's gone out and someone says to you oh you're babysitting the kids now I'm not babysitting anybody

they're my children so I think a lot of dads find it hard to see where they fit and it's because they haven't stepped back and had the time to think about the journey think about the shift the journey that they've been on

separate from their partner and how important that is and recognising those moments that they find difficult, recognizing those moments where they feel they're in their element, and not just being what a lot of society for many years have told dads they should be. And yeah, I think if I could go back, I would really be intentional about what kind of dad I want to be rather than, I know we're all figuring it out as we go along, all parents, mum's dads figure it out as they go along. But if you know who you want to be, how you get there may come in loads of different ways.

But if you at least know who you want to be, you at least know where you're going. And I think that's really, really important. Oh, man, that is powerful. And there will be so many people listen to this, just saying, oh, my gosh, yes. Recognising how culturally the narrative is so often around that kind of dads as that supporting role. But also there is great concern about male mental health. And you're so right, if you allow yourself to stay in that secondary role, then all the focus on the concern or the questions, they get asked to the mum. You know, how are you doing?

How's your mental health? When actually, if you can recognize yourself as a co-pilot rather than, you know, like a secondary backup, then you're recognizing that your emotional health, your mental health, your response to what's going on in family. life and that that pertinent just a pausing moment where you were standing next to your wife and wondering if things were going to be okay knowing that you're also the main character means that there is equal importance and equal value and validation on your responses to life and parenting so for those listeners, who are thinking, Robert, you know what, I see my partner slightly stuck or forced into this role or this is a narrative that our wider family have or this is a narrative that

we've lent into. And I would love to see my partner as more of a co-pilot. How can I encourage that? And then also, you know, for the dad's listening who are thinking, right, yeah, my gosh, I'm, that's where I am. How can I today make a step towards that main character? So two questions there. Yeah, I think for partners really, it's allowing time for your partner to have that kind of time where they can emotionally kind of let loose. So talking is, is everyone says about, you know, talk communication is key. really true. Communication is key. And the expectation within that, within that discussion,

however it happens, should be that you can say anything. And it will not be a problem. You know, a lot of the time I mentioned, you know, this kind of support and character role. As a dad, for me, and I know for a lot of my friends that are dads as well, you always think, okay, what does my partner need? I don't want to burden them with something else. what do they need? So you're always kind of mentally putting that, putting that aside. But so I think it's really important for, to get that communication, for partners to really say, you know what, don't worry about me for now, for this next 10 minutes, for this next half an hour, what's going on, what's going on with you. And for men, it's really, it's to really fight for

dads, to really fight against the instinct that has been played. within you to not talk. You know, I have something that I really found beneficial. Probably maybe a few years after I became a dad was knowing other dads and talking to other dads and not talking about, I don't like football anyway, but a lot of situations I've been in, it's football, TV or sport,

and it doesn't go beyond that. And I found a few dads that go beyond that surface level and really talking to them, laughing with them, sharing experiences, worries, fears, whatever it might be, really helps immensely. Yeah, so encouraging and facilitating some of those opportunities. And for dads just to know that it's not easy to talk, but it's important. And you found it as you've made that decision, to open up to these other friends that you found that will go beyond the general top level chat. Have you begun to find it easier to talk?

Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, I, you know, it's always awkward at first. But now I've got a few friends who are dads that I can just call up and immediately launch into something kid-wise. And I remember someone a few weeks ago, I met up with them. And he's not a dad himself, but he's entering that world. And he was like, he was like, so I saw you post about this, you know, is that really the reality? And I was like, I lose it all the time.

I lose it all the time. And he was like, too, I can't imagine you like losing it. I can't imagine you shouting or raising your voice. And I was like, trust me, if you could, you would be, you would be shocked if you came in my house because I'm learning. I'm not an expert in parenting. I'm learning to manage my emotions and figure out what kind of dad and role model I am.

I'm learning all the time, but I'm still human. So, you know, we all lose it. We all have to manage it. We all feel guilty. We all then apologize. Well, we don't all apologize. But I've, you know, I've known for a while apology is a way to move on. So, yeah, I think being honest is really important.

then you meet as people don't you and sometimes you can literally feel the relief in yourself or someone else as there is that authenticity and you're meeting on that level where you can just be a little bit more honest and open so it does get easier I love that and it is it's that that kind of like little moment where you know you could go down two roads you could go down there kind of slightly concealing brushing over things making it a little bit more palatable or that more vulnerable risky route. And it is a little bit more risky, but I bet that's how you found those people. I bet that's how you found by taking those risks. So that, thank you. And you're not like that. Sorry, I was just going to say, you're not like that with everybody. You know,

you might meet up with 10 dads. I mean, 10 is a lot. You might meet up with five dads and you, you know, there's one that you could go to that deeper level with. And that's fine. You don't have to do that. Open up to everybody. But yeah, think at least finding one or two people that you can really do that with that are in a similar situation is so key. Yeah. Thank you. There is so much kind of tangible encouragement in your wisdom. And yeah, I think some conversations maybe to be had after listening to this podcast, I was trying to think what have some really helpful things been for us in my partner kind of stepping up into that main character role. And I think one of it has been me letting go of having everything

done as I feel like it should be done and trying to micromanage everything and thinking that he will do it differently or he will maybe in my eyes do it wrong or he'll do it slower or he'll forget something and actually just letting things be different when he does it and just choosing to kind of step away and let him learn and let him find his ways of doing stuff. the kids um and i think yeah that's had to be quite intentional in our relationship where i've just kind of let him crack on and just help back and think you know what it's important that he does stuff with them even if it is as simple as he'll take my son to football and then you know the water bottle might be forgotten but how many times do you do that before before you then remember

it actually my son remembers now which is very very helpful but just letting other people learn in it things differently. I think it's been, it's been a helpful one. I think we are guilty of, we are guilty of allowing people to be in those kind of traditional or stereotypical roles. Like it's, because it's so ingrained on us, we kind of allow that, like you say, you do it your way. You're the mum. You do it your way. But actually, there's nothing wrong with him doing it his way. It's just not your way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't have to be that my way is the right way. So it's a bit of humility as well in there, isn't it? So before I ask you a little quick-fire question to finish off, we were talking before we click record about your podcast. And

I would love you'd share a little bit more about where people can find that because I've seen some little kind of videos of it before. And it's so beautifully done and so powerful. So tell people where they can go and find those conversations. Yeah. So my podcast is called Pivotor. It's a bite-size visual podcast and I asked the guest one question and that is what is your most pivotal moment so far in your life and it got some great guests it's on Spotify pivotal or you can go to my Instagram Robert J. Douglas and you'll find the promos and you'll be able to link through to Spotify to watch them and yeah it got some great guests Candice Brathway Stuart Lawrence, Nick Howard Lanes, Bodea Boderin, got loads of amazing guests to hear from their stories.

I wanted to try and make the podcast not just well-known people, a selection of, you know, everyday people and hear their journeys. Yeah, those powerful pivotal moments. So thank you so much. And I'd love to ask you, what is a parenting high for you to finish off? parenting high do you know what um anything that my children say they want to do and they do it is a parenting high like i'm very cheesy with my children like i would if they were playing football or something and they touched the ball like i'd be in bits you know but anything that they've said so my my youngest son wanted to save up for an x-box he's only six he wanted an x-box and i said

okay he's got a little savings account and he managed to save up 75% for that Xbox and we put in the final 25% and seeing him get that was just like that was a that was a parenting high pride as well isn't it? I kind of working towards something. Oh well thank you so much for sharing your honest powerful words with this and yeah I think it's going to be a real conversation starting and just a real encouragement to kind of step up and enjoy that main character role and the deservedness of it. And the connection that can come, I guess, as partners when you're both co-piloting kind of equally. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you so much. And everyone here to Robert Jay, Jay Douglas for some more honest wisdom. And yeah, thanks for, thanks for coming on.

Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of The Therapy Edit. If you have enjoyed it, don't forget to subscribe and review for me. Also, if you need any resources at all, I have lots of videos and courses on everything from health anxiety to driving anxiety and people pleasing nail all on my website, anamatha.com. And also, don't forget my brand new book, Raising a Happier Mother is out now for you to enjoy and benefit from.

It's all about how to find balance, feel good and see your children flourish as a result. Speak to you soon.