The Therapy Edit - One Thing with Scummy Mummies on why you need a laugh

Episode Date: February 18, 2022

On this episode of The Therapy Edit's 'One thing', Anna Mathur chats with Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorn, aka the one and only Scummy Mummies!The comedic duo's one thing is all about the importance of having a laugh, particular when times are dark or challenging. The Scummy Mummies are a hit comedic duo now touring the UK with their live shows. They are also hilarious podcasters and authors. You can follow them on Instagram at @scummymummies and book tickets for their live show here www.scummymummies.com

Hello and welcome to The Therapy Edit with me, psychotherapist's mum of three and author Anna Martha. Every Friday, I invite one guest to tell me the one thing they would most like to share with mums everywhere. So join with me for the next 15 minutes as we hear this dose of wisdom. I hope you enjoy it. Hello and welcome to today's guest episode of The Therapy Edit. Now, I've already been giggling in the little preamble that we do before clicking on record with the scummy mummies. So I have the scummy mummies here today. I've actually booked to see your show in May.

I can't wait. I am actually thinking about eBay and myself a cat suit. Oh, why not want to be the only one. But you'll be in them. Obviously you mean? Yes, we will. I would say get a fresh one because knowing how much catsuits smell and how close they are to your lady bits and your pits and bits. Pits and bits.

Don't get a second-hand one. No. I'm not very breathable. No. Get yourself a brand new cat suit and some caniston just to be on the safe side. And some talcum powder. Yeah. Good.

Okay, so Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorn, known for celebrating the scummyer side of motherhood and ultimately just making people feel more normal and less alone, which is so important. You have the Scummy Mummy's podcast. You do tours and shows, one of them, I will be at. Helen is a Sunday Times bestseller of Get Divorced, Be Happy. And Ellie, you are a female pioneer for online gaming. I basically started it. I basically invented online gaming.

That's right, Anna, that's correct, yes. Now, I do Twitch, I do streaming, which means to play video games on the internet. And unbelievably, people come and watch me, and we have a lovely chat, and it's really good. It's really good. And she drinks vodka. Friday's is vodka. is tea. Tuesday we just have tea on Tuesdays, but Fridays is vodka. And yeah, I think I may be the oldest woman on Twitch. Definitely the oldest 10. I'm intrigued. I'm going to dust off the old

PlayStation 4 and we've got to come and find you. Why not? Why not? Going to come and find you. So, thanks so much for joining. The question that we ask, I guess here is if you could share, if you could kind of impart one thing in moms, like family moms, what would that one thing be? Well, we We had long discussions about this, Anna. And the thing that we want to tell you, listener, is if you don't laugh, you'll cry. And I think that is our motto because when we started the scummy mummies, you know, there was all this sort of twee, yummy mummy kind of thing around. And, you know, Ellie and I just found so much of motherhood hilarious.

And that's how we met. We met both being stand-up comedians. And I think, you know, on those days where the house looks terrible and you've got, you know, crap in your hair and all that sort of stuff, you do have to laugh through it because it is ridiculous. We're in a ridiculous situation where we're controlled by two-year-olds and four-year-olds or, you know, 15-year-olds. And I think laughter is the best medicine. Yeah. Yeah. And to be clear, we're not saying there's anything wrong inherently with crying or you should never cry.

Of course, there's always, there's, you know, awful things happen and sometimes the only thing to do. do is cry. But along with the really serious, awful things, often there's minutiae, there's stupid, silly things that are really irritating and frustrating and upsetting, but actually do they always warrant a cry? It can feel like that because there's so many of them, but we find it easier if you can to laugh about the silly things sometimes. And that makes sometimes the truly awful or just the volume of it a bit more bearable. Yeah, I think laughter is so therapeutic, isn't it? And I think the biggest experience of this for me was in the pandemic when there were so many of those like memes flying around and I like consumed them I was like

send them to me because they made us laugh so much and it was it wasn't it was it wasn't hard and sad and slightly traumatic in many ways for many people it's just that laugh to just I don't know why is it so therapeutic why is laughing so therapeutic why does it just kind of almost bring us back to ourselves doesn't it it's it's a circuit breaker isn't it and and someone said I think it's in my book, actually. Kathy Lett, the Australian author, said, if you've got a good sense of humour, then that's a shock absorber for your brain.

And I thought that's such a really, you know, like when you've got humour in the dark times, it just sort of softens everything, doesn't it? And it's so important to laugh at yourself and laugh at the ridiculousness of life as well. And also, like when we do our shows, when we have a collective group of women, like 500 women in the audience,

to be able to laugh at just the shit bits of motherhood and all say, we're doing okay, is a really important, and I'm not going to use it in word empowering because I'll hate myself for using that word. But it is, it's sort of just like, we're all in this together. And laughter brings people together.

And that's what I love about our job, is just to see, you know, we'll just say, oh, God, isn't this fucking hard? And to see hundreds of women laugh and share that. You're like, no, we're all the same, or, you know, at least the shit that we're going through is very relatable. Yeah, it's about connection, isn't it? And sometimes, like you say, and that could be on a big scale, but also it can be on a small

scale, like I remember when my granddad died, my grandma, sorry, she was 100, I forgot what gender she was already, it was a few years ago, my grandma died. She was 100, so it was, you know, she'd had a good life and all of that. But of course, it's sad when someone dies, and we went to a funeral, and of course, funerals were sad. and afterwards, you know, in the crematorium and my mum, sort of almost without speaking, went up to the coffin that was on the little wheelie thing and we just, we looked at each other and we both just wanted to say goodbye and we both put a hand on the coffin and as we did, it actually moved backwards on the wheels and we were going to worry, we were going to push into the curtains and we just looked at each other and we laughed because it was, you know, death is, is, is, the worst of all the things, but it was funny. And there we were sharing this moment. And I know my grandma would have laughed at that. Do you know what to mean? So it was a connection,

weirdly, between the three of us, even though one of us wasn't actually there anymore. And it's a reminder of sort of humanity, isn't it? It's a reminder of the ridiculousness of life, I suppose. Yeah. Do you think there are sometimes we have rules around in our own minds or culturally, like, can't laugh now, or if you're feeling sad or you're grieving, you can't, you know, you can't be happy or shouldn't be happy, or I don't know, it's almost as if sometimes we create our own rules around what we, when we should feel joy in humour, because laughter brings joy, doesn't it? And you can find joy, even in some of those, you know, dark, hard times. Yeah, absolutely. Why should they have to be separated? Yeah. And I think when everything gets

too much, as you've often said, Anna, it will come out, whether that's rage or pay, or sadness and often like when I've had you know tough times going through divorce and stuff I'll go across to the woods across the road and just scream or to say all the bad swears and actually letting that anger out and then I made myself laugh because I went can't really loudly in the woods and I made myself laugh and I thought actually that was just the valve that was to be out to release that tension I think laughter gives you that and you know and smile just smiling lifts your mood as will. Any other stories of times that laughter has really helped you through a dark time? Oh, definitely when I have my second son, Joe, he was born nine weeks early. So he was in intensive

care in the premature baby unit. And it was the worst thing that happened to me. It was really awful and very difficult and, you know, for all the reasons. But Helen came to visit me in the hospital and Joe of sort of a few days in kind of thing. And she came in and we were sitting there in the intensive care and they had the radio on, you know, and the song, What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Stronger, came on. And we found, we're laughing now. I know.

We just don't laugh at the inappropriate nature of our song for an intensive care baby unit. And I had to say, stop laughing because you're making my caesarian hurt. I don't have a mother, Missisari. So, again, totally inappropriate, really. But somehow, like you're saying, Helen, it breaks attention. Me and my husband often use it. You know, when you've had a row, and neither of you's really furious anymore, but it's frosty, it's frosty, and you need to, you know,

and if you've had a row about something stupid, like you've got to put the oven on, and like one of us will say something like, so, are you going to put the oven on, the other one and go, yeah, it's already on, so I can stick my head in it, and then we'll laugh, and then it'll be all right, do you know what I mean? So I think it's definitely, it breaks tension, definitely. Yeah, I love that. Did you say it was a shock absorber for the, brain shock absorbed yeah oh and when you're not when you know that you want to laugh or you know

that that would feel really good for you how do you how do you seek that like do you just think of something funny or do you find yourself watching or listening to something i think i think it does take practice because i think it's easy to be furious all the time i think just being a woman you should be angry all the time anyway because it's fucking shit but i think i think it does take practice And I think it is about taking a step back, having a deep breath and going, really, do I need to be really cross about this? Like, is it that bad that, you know, there's washing everywhere and there's Lego on the table, you know, has anyone died? Like, you know, like, and it is, it is, it is a bit of practice because I think you get into spirals of just being cross and miserable and always reacting the same way to your children. I think when I, after I read Philippa Perry's amazing book about,

just sort of switching things and saying to the kids, how can we do this better the next time? Or just instead of going, don't do it, stop doing it. Like, just sort of stepping back and going, well, this is a mess. How are we going to clean this up or whatever? Or let's us have another fish finger.

I think it just brings lightness because life is heavy. And that's what anger and sadness and all that sort of shit feels like. But laughter is light. And then you suddenly, yeah, as you say, you just feel better because you're not carrying that tension. Yeah, definitely. that diffusing. And we need that. We need to seek it sometimes. And I think you're right. It doesn't always come naturally. And maybe it needs to be a bit of a discipline, you know, something that we try and cultivate. For me, I found that humor is also a really good way to channel rage and anger. So in the corona times, there was this thing where we had this awful. I can't remember all the details now, but we had this awful time trying to get a corona test. And it was at that time it was ludicrous where you'd put in your postcode and it would say, yes, you can have this test, but go to Southampton. and then you'd put it in again

and it would literally say go to Aberdeen but this is from South East London where I live and we had to get this test done because Helen and I had this massive show we had to do and we wanted to know if we were allowed to do it and blah blah blah and so anyway I did some stories about it and all these people started messaging go

yes I'm in Cornwall and I've been told to go to Wales and blah blah and it made me really angry but then I thought well I can make this funny so I started I did this sort of newsreader character and I got a big map of Britain and I drew on literally all the place places where people like, here's Brenda in Cardiff. She's been told to go to Aberdeen,

whereas, you know, Tom has been told to come down here to Dulwich. What's going? And people really, really liked it. And I felt better because I was like, this is ludicrous. That's why I love stuff like the MASH report and things like that. And these memes people do about these. These people running the country are awful. And what they're doing is an absolute disgrace. But to mock them, it's not about saying this isn't serious. It's about highlighting how utterly awful. it is. And actually that could be really helpful, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And I think satire and comedy are amazing tools for change. And they, yeah, and if, and I think you're right, Ellie, like, when we're in the darkness, we seek humour because we're just like, how can this be real?

How can, how can we be, how can we be, like, governed by a fucking massive clown with terrible hair? How is this possible? And when, when, when you know, his new spokesman on the radio yesterday was saying, I mean, he's not a complete clown. If the man is, It works for you. He has to explain that you're not a total, Lydia. If he's using the word clown, in any sentence describing the Prime Minister of the country, what is going on? Anyway, that's not to be funny. That is just a rant, but I'm just saying. I think it's right, though, isn't it? It's engaging in the ludicrousness of it all. And, yeah, there's something very anchoring about that and very freeing about that at the same time.

Yeah. And also, I, when our Instagram, I think, has been. has been popular because we often we do celebrate the scummy and I'll go oh look at my beautiful interior design look at my new curtains which were just all my washing hanging on hangers across my curtain rail and people like oh yes I've got those beautiful curtains too and so there's a that people want to join in and kind of go yeah oh thank God um you know that's a house that looks like mine and so and there's no shame in that and that actually it's a great shame killer is comedy as well, because I think shame is something that we take as parents, shame and guilt as well. And if we can kind of go, oh, look, we've had fish fingers three nights in a row,

or look at the beautiful fruit platter that my children have not eaten. And we can laugh about that because we're all trying our best, but we can't make our kids eat spinach. Or if you can, well, well done you, but it's not funny. I think that's so right. And I, yeah, the shame, the shame that comes with feeling like you're the only one that has, you know, curtains made of wet clothes. Whenever I share stuff like that on social media, I always find I get this load of messages saying those exact things of it's so good to know I'm not the only one. And I think our brains are hardwired to believe what we see. So therefore, when we're mostly exposed to images of seeming perfection, you know, we do need that more often. We do need to kind of more consistently remind ourselves that actually everyone,

one's got, you know, a freezer door that looks dangerous because it's been kicking so many times. It's got peace from five years ago just as a layer, a base layer. Insulation. Yeah, so true. Well, thank you. I think so many people are going to be seeking a bit of laughter now or just giving themselves permission to find things funny. Because, you know, it's that, you know, it's that's letting the laughter out that sometimes they're kind of bubbling underneath the surface because it is ludicrous or you do need a bit of light relief and stop telling yourself

stop telling yourself that actually I'm not allowed to find this money or I'm not allowed to giggle about this but actually see the therapeutic release in that give yourself permission some of the best laughs I've had have been in hospitals or at funerals that's what I would say

also some of the worst moments of my life but also some of the best laughs yeah and they can co they can co-exist yeah So to finish off, I will fire some questions at you. Okay. So, Ellie, what is a motherhood high for you? Motherhood high, gas and air. That's very, that's how it begins, isn't it? Probably. motherhood hi i just like i like cuddling which is quite a soppy thing for me to say i'm not incredibly soppy person but i just this morning my seven-year-old and every morning he's still

luckily comes into bed and snuggles me the 10-year-olds he's well over it you know i mean but a seven-year-old just comes in and sort of nestles in and we have a lovely cuddle and i was thinking this morning you know this isn't you know he's probably not going to be doing this when he's 15 if he is i might have to send him to come and see you anna because something's gone quite badly wrong. So I was thinking, you know, this is lovely. So at the moment, it's the cuddles. And I know that it will change. But also, I still hug my mum and dad all the time. So, you know, yeah, I like that bit really. Cuddles. Got the oxytocin going. Yeah. And Helen, what is motherhood low for you? Lying. I don't like lying. I've obviously, for many reasons

find lying very shitty. But when I know that they've lied, I'm like, Have you done that thing? They're like, yes. And I'm like, no, you haven't. Don't lie to me. So that's what I find really. I'm like, we're all in this together. We're a single parent family.

Don't fucking lie. So I think that's what I don't like. And yes, that's right. You know, because I can sort of put up with mess because there's honesty in mess. And I can put up with tiredness and all that so stuff. But yeah, dishonesty is something I find really thing. But I know, I know, you know, why children lie. And that's all very normal and things like that.

but that's my one one bug bit. Also, it's good, it's good. Philippa Perry, again, not to slag off one of your direct competitors, Anna, or not to big them up, rather. But she's done a whole documentary about how if your child's lying, I mean, you might disagree, Anna, I don't know. But if your child's lying,

that's actually a good thing that actually shows they're quite advanced because they've learned to hold two realities as possibilities in their head and work out what to share and whatnot. And even as adults, we all lie all the time. So, you know, yes, oh, I didn't come to your dinner party because I had syphilis. We've all said things like that, you know, isn't it?

Isn't it quite good? So I don't mind it so much, I don't know. Yeah. Oh, probably then biting. My children still bite. That's awful. Occasionally they bite each other and they're 10 and 13, and that boils my piss. Oh, dear.

Bigger and harder bites, those. Oh, I know. It's just really embarrassing. I'm like, stop that now. But they're actually very nice children, lying, biting children. They're actually delightful and I love them very much. We always have to say that though, don't we? Oh, of course.

Got a caveat, got a caveat. So to both of you, what's one thing beyond laughing that makes you feel good? I was going to say, lifting really fucking heavy weights. That's my new, that's my new high. I mean, obviously it's having sex with young men. what I really like but we can't say that on this podcast can we Anna. Can you do that? You can. Yeah. So apart from

bagging young boys called Giuseppe, I really I like going to the gym. Sounds like balance there. There's going to be people listening to this going oh fuck you. And I speak on behalf of them. I love smoking. How about that? That's better. Yeah, I love having a faggin.

the morning really wakes me up and any again Anna both things can coexist apparently they can we have proof yes I really like eating that's what I like and I like cooking and I like reading about food and I like restaurants I like all of that so I really missed restaurants the lockdown and all that and I like yeah just like traveling where we're going on tour where we go on tour now we're lucky that we can afford to stay in like you know all right hotels whereas when we started we used to share a terrible room in a murdery B&B. So it's nice now that we go away and I like family holidays and all that. I really, the lockdown did give me a newfound appreciation of other people

cooking you food in foreign countries. That's my favourite thing. I'm yet to experience that in the last couple of years, but I'm aiming for that this year. Someone else cooking me food in a foreign country. Absolutely. Absolutely heaven. Oh, yeah. Give it to me. So how would both of you describe motherhood in three words? Tiring, rewarding, and aromatic.

Pungent, is the word I'm looking for. Pungent. That's not one we've heard before. I like that. It is pungent. That's very good. I would say hilarious, frustrating and heartwarming. Hilarious, frustrating and heartwarming. Yeah, love it. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for joining us.

And for anyone that wants to have a laugh, I recommend the Scummy Mummy Mummy's podcast. And you haven't got many spaces left in your shows at the moment. So people need to get online. and get booking, most of it. Yes, we're coming to, where we're going? We're going to Tamworth. We're going to, yes, Horsham, Wellingborough, Basingstoke, Portsmouth.

We're going to a sausage and cider festival in Derbyshire in June. It's going to be amazing. Devises, Cambridge, Henley, Chitbury, all over the shop. And then in the autumn, we're going up north. We're going to Worthing as well. And Southampton, all the places. And hopefully back to Edinburgh in August, too, yeah. watch this place. We're waiting for dates, but yes, people of Scotland. We will be

heading above the border to see you. Great. Laughter, all over the country. All over the country. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for the giggles. We appreciate you. You're wonderful. And I can't wait to see you. Can't wait to see you in real life. In your catsuits. We love you, Anna. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Bye. Thank you for listening to today's episode of The Therapy. it. If you enjoyed it, please do share, subscribe and review. You can find more from me on Instagram at Anna Martha. You might like to check out my two books called Mind Over Mother and know your worth. I'm also the founder of the Mother Mind Way, a platform full of guides,

resources and a community with the sole focus on supporting mother's mental and emotional wellbeing. It's been lovely chatting with you. Speak soon. Thank you.