The Therapy Edit - One Thing with Sophie Ellis-Bextor on embracing selfishness

Episode Date: March 18, 2022

On this episode of The Therapy Edit's 'One thing', Anna Mathur chats with the kitchen disco queen, Sophie Ellis-Bextor. Sophie shares her advice to fellow mums to retain a little bit of themselves, just for themselves throughout their parenting journey. Sophie Ellis-Bextor is a mum of five (!), talented singer, lover of a kitchen disco, podcaster and now author of her auto biography Spinning Plates.You can follow Sophie on Instagram at @sophieellisbextor and buy tickets to her Kitchen Disco tour of 2022 here https://sophieellisbextor.netYou can also buy her book here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spinning-Plates-Music-Motherhood-Autobiography/dp/1529363780/ref=asc_df_1529363780/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=499348463277&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18077723603641755667&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007154&hvtargid=pla-1188202322544&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

Hello and welcome to The Therapy Edit with me, psychotherapist's mum of three and author Anna Martha. Every Friday, I invite one guest to tell me the one thing they would most like to share with mums everywhere. So join with me for the next 15 minutes as we hear this dose of wisdom. I hope you enjoy it. Hi and welcome to today's guest episode of The Therapy Edit and I'm absolutely. thrilled to have one of my favorite artists, favorite musicians here, someone that serenaded us through lockdowns, a mom of many who has sung with her sequins from her kitchen and kept us entertained and grounded. So Sophie Ellis Bexter, it's so wonderful to have

you here today. Oh, thanks for having me. How are you? Yeah, good, thank you. I was just having a little let's see what you're up to. And you've got a tour happening, which I think all the way through March and then you've got all the festivals and gigs and stuff that must be really nice to have things in the diary yeah i think particularly live stuff yeah it's just um i mean i always had a good relationship with performing live i like it but i think when when we had the quiet bit where it wasn't happening you know my husband's a musician as well so we were both pining for for gigs really um and seeing people because every gig is different just because you know it's like a different date because you're you're with different people and different place so yeah looking

forward to it although you definitely found ways to kind of you know stay creative and keep everyone inspired but yeah just to have have people there again seeing people respond kind of to your music and oh yeah that must be a really good feeling it is it's the best so sophie thank you so much for joining the question that i always asked the guess is if you were to imagine i guess and seeing all the mums in front of you, what would the one thing be that you'd love to share and impart in them? Well, I think for me, the biggest thing, actually, I'd like to impart is about the necessity of being a bit selfish for yourself, actually.

I think there's so much of parenthood that's thinking about the other small people in your life. And, of course, that's naturally where your head will always go. But I think the things you do for yourself are actually really, vital. So just keep some things for yourself, you know. My mum said it to me when I had my first and it was a bit of advice I really lent on because I think it doesn't, it doesn't come with the pamphlet, I don't think. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, the word selfish, I've had to go on such a journey with that word itself because it, I think the connotations that we often have are that it's kind of just purely that you're,

I don't know, that you're completely forgetting about everyone else and that you're completely putting yourself first. And I guess that, but there's an element of that that's so important. So what's your relationship been with that word selfish? Well, I suppose also it's kind of not really true because you never really, you're never really not thinking about all that stuff. Everything's always in context. But I think what it means is sometimes you're doing things just for yourself,

just because they make your heart happy. and I suppose for me that's always been to do with my work really so I'm not talking about I'm not talking about you know in a sort of more like practical day-to-day way I think it was being selfish enough to to make sure that I had my work and that my work was my own and it's funny because

my husband he's in a band and when we had our first baby he had Sonny he must have only been about three at the time on the album a little bit so you could hear Sonny's little voice and for me I put an album out not long after and I was like there's no way I'd put any of my kids on my albums because for me that's my space

like I just I need something that's mine and I of course adore being their mum but I just needed something that's mine yeah kind of something sacred about kind of ring fencing that as yours and I guess with that word selfish is it ever can anything truly be selfish when actually it kind of it benefits those around you anyway when they see you more you?

Because these things make us more us, don't they? Definitely. And I think, you know, speaking for myself, I'm a better mum because of the fact that I have my work. But no, I think you're right. I don't think anything is truly selfish in that way. But I suppose maybe my mum said it because you sort of need a very extreme term

to make sure that you actually do it at all. Because if you just sort of said, make sure you have some time for yourself or, you know, don't feel guilty when you work, it's sort of easy to have something else. Basically, it's a sort of positive affirmation of something rather than permission on a smaller scale. If you say, I need this, I've got that and it's really important.

I think it's okay to kind of, by being quite extreme in the termology, you're probably only still being fairly minimal in the practical. Yeah, I love that. And actually, sometimes it's really good to change our relationships with a word. Yeah. Because, yeah, it can have. negative connotation. Actually, there is so much value. In fact, we need it. Why? I don't know. I think when I went into motherhood, I kind of almost thought I had to be entirely sacrificial, but I, I

fundamentally lost myself. Yeah. And I wasn't enjoyable to be around. Yeah, very easy. And how long did you feel like that? Was that with your, with your first? It was actually with my second, I think, when things were just challenging and hard and he was, he had reflux and needed so much more of me. So I gave everything. But then as a result, I had nothing left. I was like a shadow of myself. I couldn't, you know, I think these things, they're the things that bring us joy when we give ourselves permission to engage in that that makes us feel like ourselves. You know, definitely, I agree with that. We have more, don't we? We have more to give from. Yeah, and it's a bit like, I don't know, sometimes if Richard and I will go out for a date and the kids might be like,

oh, why are you doing that? And I say, because it's really nice for us to have time for ourselves. and actually I think we're better parents because of that because we need that time that's just ours sometimes too. So I think there's lots of ways you can kind of interpret it. And then I also kind of encourage my kids still have their own thing. You know, I think having stuff that makes your heart sing that you can be quite resourceful and self-reliant for is a really good thing. I think it's nice.

I like it when I see that one of them squirrels off with a book or is working on a little project. You know, not everything has to be done as a group all the time. Yeah. So it's actually, it's modeling, isn't it? Because I think we don't want to think that our kids would grow up knowing that their desires and their passions are valuable. But how important and how powerful it is for them to see us prioritizing, prioritizing those things for ourselves. And sometimes obviously it's easier than others.

You know, there are times when I'm sure, you know, like you sort of put yourself right down at the bottom of the list. But if I can be a bit curious, what's the best bit of advice that someone's given you when they said their one thing? I'm like, it's probably something I need to hear. You know what? I think this is, this is a really, really good one. We've had a lot of people kind of saying also just to re-engage in that gut, you know, that gut voice that you haven't started. Yeah, just the instinct's always good. Yeah, starting adding value to it.

And, you know, another one is kind of fun, like having fun. And today I spoke to the scummy mummies and they obviously, they have a lot of fun and they're talking about, you know, sometimes it's good to laugh otherwise you'll cry. So it's, you know, for them, it was about engaging in the ridiculousness of some stuff sometimes. You know, even they were talking about some of the funniest moments of being the saddest moments in funerals and where they've just caught a glance at someone else and, you know, they've kind of just started laughing. And it's how humour and despair can kind of coexist. I thought that was so interesting.

I think we often, we have narratives again over selfishness and we have narratives again over sometimes, well, I can't feel that or I shouldn't feel that. shouldn't find this funny. Oh, yeah. Well, that's life, isn't it? Yeah, that's life. And also, I think it's like my favorite TV programs have always got lots of everything and they always have humor. Even, you know, even really serious programs, all the best ones,

have still got humor in there because humor is part of life. So, you know, you need that whole variety because that's how, that's what happens. And sometimes things are, yeah, you have to be able to engage in the humor of things. Yeah. I think I'm quite good at that, to be fair. You are, you are, and I love how you talk. Yeah, and you talk about your journey with that. No, I love it.

And that's what you were doing, you know, in the pandemic. And you, you know, it must have been challenging for you, being at home with your kids and all that that entailed in the home learning, etc. But actually, you still, you still danced, you still sang, you still dressed up. And it was in the midst of all that chaos. You know, there is fun to be found. And it's therapeutic, isn't it? Yes, definitely a definitely good stress.

reliever you know um and i think uh yeah it's just healthy to put that that emotion somewhere else stretch it out and just you know we're quite good at teaching toddlers to do that but sometimes we need to do it as grown-ups as well yeah yeah and that's the selfishness again isn't it it's like actually you know ring fencing some of those things that bring you that and knowing that it is that it is diffusing it is therapeutic it is stress relieving so we need to yeah i have one of my biggest sort of meltdown moments in lockdown when because for me music was my solace you know and obviously that's nice and transportable so I could sing all around the house and I found myself singing a lot more than normal probably just as a way to sort of alleviate the anxiety of what was going on in the news but

one time I was singing a song from Greece and I was near the end and then one of my kids was just going mummy like really a lot like needing me more like kind of irritated by me and I was so frustrated I just slammed my phone down the surface like I was just about to finish the song when I looked down I totally smashed my phone case and got all the glass on the screen I was like that just showed you like you got all that pent up tension and lockdown like ah I just need to be Rizzo from Greece please yeah and you wanted you just wanted to protect that moment for yourself because you knew that you needed it and that's something isn't it in parenting there are so many reasons as to there are so many calls of our attention and we do have to be kind of

of strident about actually this is important for me yeah and i'm a human being you know yeah definitely thank you well thank you so much and i think it will definitely be inspiring people to think about what are those things for them what are those things actually they might have just pushed out or that they've just kind of slipped away in the chaos of motherhood that perhaps they just need to bring back to ring fence to protect to to to recognize that it's it's not just okay to be selfish it's actually enlivening and gives you more of yourself. Yeah, well, no one congratulates you at the end if you have actually sort of martyed yourself to it. So, yeah, and it's an easy sort of trope of motherhood, isn't it?

I think we're better at it now. I think people are more open now. And I think many of us actually are trying to unpicking that generational martyrdom so that they're not doing it for the next generations. And this is one. Don't we? Yeah. Important, important. So to finish off, I ask a few quick-fire questions. So, Sophie, what's a motherhood high for you? Oh, just them getting older, actually. I've got one that's going to be 18 in April. And I'm so happy that I have a near adult that all he has to do is kind of get older and I'm like, I feel very proud and impressed by him. And I think it's an unexpected high in a way because so much is focused on when they're small.

And obviously that's lovely, but I feel like your mother game really comes into its own when they get older because they need so much more from you. And actually, it's really rewarding as well. So, yeah, I think sort of helping them on their way like that is lovely. Oh, that's so encouraging of someone with young kids to hear a positive. Because I think sometimes it can be cast in a bit of a, well, you think it's hard now, just you wait.

But I guess the challenges are different. and you reap the rewards in different ways. So that's wonderful and encouraging to hear. Thank you. So alternatively, what's a low for you in motherhood? Oh, I think any time I've tried to be a sort of unrealistic version of myself, you know, I think like when I had my first and someone gave me that horrible book, the contented baby book, and I was trying to feed him according to the clock.

and, you know, any time I've sort of, yeah, not gone with my gut, as you were saying, and have sort of done what I think is expected of me. So actually, more recently, homeschooling was like that. I thought, why am I expecting myself to be any good at this? Just look around your family, what do they need right now? They're a bit scared. They're a bit, you know, frustrated by not seeing their friends. Let's do something else.

Let's make our own story of this. So besides singing, what's one thing that makes you feel good? I'll call you loads of things. Cooking and eating, that's a big part of our lives here. I get very excited about what my next meal might be. And I've always enjoyed that since I was a teenager, making myself something to eat. And then if I have time, then we're always sort of watching films

and going to theatre and all that sort of stuff and seeing people, having social time with my friends. I don't find it hard to find things I like to do. It's just finding it hard to find the time to do those things sometimes. Yeah, to make them actually happen, to fit them in. And then finally, Sophie, how would you describe motherhood in three words? Three words? Oh, blind me.

Glorious and chaotic and exciting, actually. I think it's an amazing thing, really. like I just you know I hope I raise five really lovely interesting kind people so let's see how I get on I love that well thank you thank you so much and encourage everyone to head over to your social media I guess everything is kind of linked there all of the different things that are going on for you and then you've got your spinning plates book which is just brilliant it's a mixture of kind of like autobiography but also then just with a load of kind of learning woven in and it's really inspirational. And then recipes from the kitchen disco, which is, yeah, I'm going to definitely

look that up. So thank you so much for your time and encouragement just to get a bit selfish and change our relationship with that word. Yes. Thank you. Take care. Bye. Bye. Lizana. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to today's episode of the therapy edit. If you enjoyed it, please do share, subscribe and review. You can find more from me on Instagram at Anna Martha. You might like to check out my two books. called Mind Over Mother and Know Your Worth. I'm also the founder of the Mother Mind Way, a platform full of guides, resources and a community with the sole focus on supporting

mother's mental and emotional well-being. It's been lovely chatting with you. Speak soon.