The Therapy Edit - One Thing with Zoë de Pass on finding the right new mum friends

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

In this episode of The Therapy Edit, Anna chats to Zoë de Pass (aka Dress Like a Mum) about her One Thing; on finding your true new mums friends by embracing your old and new identity as a mum, particularly when it comes to fashion and design.Zoë's ‘Dress Like A Mum’ blog was designed to dispel the myth that mum’s can’t dress and inspire women to hold on to their identity and energy in the midst of parenthood and develop timeless and sustainable wardrobes.This campaign helped Zoë build her social media presence and use her platform to share sustainable fashion choices and continue to empower women who look to Zoë for fashion, parenting and lifestyle advice.Take a look at her blog, accessories and eyewear collection here.Follow Zoë on Instagram here.

Hello and welcome to The Therapy Edit with me, psychotherapist's mum of three and author Anna Martha. Every Friday, I invite one guest to tell me the one thing they would most like to share with mums everywhere. So join with me as we hear this dose of wisdom. I hope you enjoy it. Hi, everyone. Welcome to today's guest episode of The Therapy Edit. I have with me today, Zoe DePas. Zoe DePas, you will know on Instagram as dress like a mom. She is a blogger, a designer and a founder of Zoe DePas I wear. I spent some time on the website and I must say I'm a big sunglasses wearer. Otherwise I squint. So I wear them even when it's not sunny. My husband's often saying it's not even sunny Anna. I don't care. I love I love my sunglasses. So anyway, check those out. But her dress like a mom blog was designed to dispel the myth that moms can't dress and inspire women to hold onto their identity, yes, and energy in the midst of parenthood and develop timeless and importantly

sustainable wardrobes. This campaign helps Zoe build her social media present and use her platform, which she does every day to share sustainable fashion choices and continue to empower women who look to Zoe for fashion, parenting and lifestyle advice. I followed you for a long time and absolutely love all that you share. Her eyewear, which I, yeah, are just amazingly colorful and lots of funky shapes as well was founded from the desire to make high quality, fun-loving, flattering sunglasses made from eco-acetate to enjoy life wearing. So there we go. There's a bio and a half. Thank you. Thanks. Busy, busy. How are you today? I am good. Thank you. Not too cold. Your heating isn't working at the moment. No, I am literally surrounded by chaos and

mess, trying to design a kitchen, among other things. But yeah, that's just life, isn't it? It's just one big juggle and mess. One big juggle. I've always thought it'd be really fun to design a kitchen. Yeah, it is. I'd have so much fun thinking about all the storage and like just laying everything out. Like, I see it sometimes on social media. I'm like, I just feel like I'd just be a more peaceful person if I knew, if I had a spot for everything in my kitchen, you're going to have a spot for everything? I hope so, yeah. I mean, if I design it correctly and like obviously design is in my blood, so I am enjoying the process. It's just the amount of time dedicate, I have to dedicate it to it. But yeah, it is like it is good. Let's hope everything does have a spot or I failed.

Yeah, I think that's it, isn't it? With these kind of big decisions that you make around home and you save and then you spend a lot of money on them, is that, do you feel like the pressure to get these things just to get them right? Are you quite perfectionist or are you quite? Do you know what I'm actually, I don't think I am a perfectionist. I think I'm too relaxed to be a perfectionist, but I am really, really into design.

And so I will, like my brain will naturally think about the puzzle I need to solve in a three-dimensional way. So it will come naturally to a certain extent. But I'm actually not, I'm not perfectionist. My dad and my brother are both designers. and my brother in particular is a complete perfectionist. So he's quite good to bounce things off because he's already done like hours of research

onto like the perfect height skirting board or like the perfect white colour paint. So I'll just call him and go, what paint did you get? And he'll tell me and I'll just get the same. Oh yeah. So he's done the research. I like riding off the back of other people's research.

I've done that quite a few times. And I choose the friends that I know have just kind of been really vigilant and spent ages. And I think, well, we like similar stuff. So I'm just going to, I'm just going to ride off the back of that. Exactly. I trust you. You've chosen the correct white paint. I'll just follow that. There we go. There we go. No, that's a good rule to live by. Save yourself some energy and some time. So the question that I ask or the guests here is if you could share one thing with all the moms that listen, what would that one thing be? I think I would share the fact.

or just the idea that actually you don't have to forget your identity and like what it means to be yourself despite becoming a parent. Yeah. I think like when I became a mum, I was obviously, you know, it's a big shift in your identity, isn't it? You're kind of like, I don't know, I went from being quite a busy, active member of like a team, like a kind of design, a creative team at work.

and like going out all the time with my friends and that kind of stuff to them being pregnant, to then kind of pushing a buggy round in circles and not really having many mates like who were doing the same thing. And I think that kind of transition for me was the hardest.

I was like, oh right. I was like, so what like, what am I doing here? And it took me a while to remember like, oh, well, I do really like people and fashion and, like, design and businesses and, you know, I'm, like, a very creative person. And it took me, and actually at the end of my first maternity leave was when I kind of really found my group, and I found people and women that were like me going through the same things. Like, I didn't do NCT or anything like that, but I did kind of spot, like a local part.

We just moved to the area, like, a few days before I gave them. birth so I didn't really know any like people yeah I was like among you know I was the first one out my group of friends to have a baby so I was a bit like okay I've got to find some new people and the women I was meeting were lovely but they weren't like natural friendships they were just people I happened to have a baby at the same time as and then it wasn't towards the end of my maternity leave when I found a organisation called mother's meetings which is was a lot focused on kind of creative, like entrepreneurial mums that I was like, oh, yeah, this is me.

Like, this is what I like. And I was like, so I think, yeah, I think just be careful. And it's really good for your like mind, your mental health to remember who you are because you are still that same person. You just have someone else that's like more important than you. But you're still that person. And if you're still that person, you're going to be. happier and therefore like just generally better yeah so you must it like it must have felt like

a bit of a relief when you found the mother's meetings and you what did you just walk in and think oh hi yeah hi yeah i was like here's my crew people exactly i came back from that first event like buzzing because i was so excited i was like oh my god like yes this is why this is what i'm looking for I want to go to like events where you can take your baby because you have a certain amount of time when you're on maternity leave like of course you don't have any time because you know you've still we've got the baby but there is for me I still wanted to do stuff like I wanted to you know a lot of the time it's easier to do something than just stay in but um so yeah that after that first meeting I can't remember what the topic was but it was you know it was probably somewhere like

Shoreditch House, you know, it's very like fashion conscious mums. And I was just like, oh my God, this is awesome. I want to do this like all the time. This is why I want to spend my time. Like, yeah, I just remember, yeah, coming back to life. And that was because I found my people, basically. I think that's it, isn't it? I definitely met with a group of people right from the off. So I didn't do NCT, but I did something similar. And I just moved to a new area. So I was all out for finding new friends and actually when I think about it now 10 years down the line in parenting I'm probably still in touch with one of them yeah and I think there is this pressure really isn't there just to kind of come together with a group of people when actually when you really think

about it the only thing that you might the main thing in common you have is the fact that you got pregnant yeah at a similar time and I think people can just maybe overlook those feelings of loneliness that might come even when you're surrounded by people that you have that in common with. But actually it just shows that maybe you, I don't know, just need to push a little bit harder to find some of those people that might be there for the longer haul or just there is more of you that you have in common because sometimes it doesn't feel enough because maybe that connection it's not. Yeah, I think that's right.

And I think for me, you know, I'd rock up. to this meeting and just, I don't know, be talking about what, you know, I didn't want to talk about the babies all the time. Yeah, like, yeah, that's, you know, it's amazing and it's invaluable to share tips on whatever it is, eating, sleeping, whatever. But there's also, like, other stuff to talk about, right? And I think when I walked up to these groups with, I don't know, let's say, I probably had, like, blue, nail varnish and pink hair. And it was a bit of a, like, oh, oh, like, wow, you're trendy kind of, kind of vibe. But it's just because they weren't my kind of people.

And I think, yeah, I think at first, like you're saying, there's a loneliness, but it wasn't that I realized that that's what I was looking for. I was just like, oh, right, is this it now? Like, do I just, like, fall into this group now? But actually, looking back, I think I should have retained what I, you know, maybe, I don't know. There's more, there's a lot more communities to join. now than there was like 12 years ago when I was in this place so for me it was mother's meetings but I think there's a whole host of like mum meetups now that have sprung up and I think

definitely finding the one that's suitable that is still like you you know like I think women forget sometimes you know like say if you really like painting painting or you like fashion or you're really sporty or you love going to theatre or cinema are like you're still going to like to do those things when you become a mum but you probably it's just going to be a bit harder to find the time to do it but once you do find the time to do it you're like as I said earlier it brings you alive again I think oh this is so interesting I think often we there's this narrative that the reason the things that we love fall by the wayside and those parts of ourselves whether it's kind of fashion or creativity or just actually just

really love a certain aspect of your job or there's a part of your character, maybe, I don't know, what it is that you love singing or dancing and actually you lose that because of motherhood. When actually what you're saying here is maybe the reason that those things gather dust is because we're not finding those people that love those things as well. It's kind of like fuel that passion and keep it alive. And there are, so yeah, we have to shoehorn it in sometimes and find a really creative ways and amend our expectations of like how we how we can live some of that out but yeah I mean I also like like we're responsible for that right so like you know I can't just be like oh I need to find a group like if I like you know like one of the things I mentioned to you before is like

I love snowboarding like I've I've loved snowboarding ever since I could save off enough money to learn how to do it right so when I became a mum obviously snowboarding is quite a tricky thing to do with a new baby, right? But, you know, now I, but it makes me me snowballing. Like, I freaking love it. Like, it's my favorite thing to do. I can't help it. It's just in me.

And I think working out a way to do that, you know, I've now got a company doing ski and snowboard holidays for women, right? And that was off the back of me not being able to find anyone to go with. So, you know, like, that was my responsibility. I wanted to do snowboarding. I wasn't, no one else was going to help me go snowboarding. I had to just work out a way to do it. And so I think, yeah, there's groups to join, but also, like, take control, like, make some time to paint the picture or, like, make the time to, like, go to your dance class.

Or, you know, in my case, like, go really massive and, like, if you haven't got any mates to go snowboarding, start a company like that does it. make it make it happen yeah absolutely yeah and i think there can be i think some people really battle with guilt of you know when i'm doing this i'm not focusing on my child when actually like i really love challenging that narrative of when you when you do these things for yourself and you find ways to engage in them regardless of how creative you have to be to carve out that time you're that is actually an act of love towards your kids because you're being more you and your kids are going to enjoy seeing the sparkle in your eye when you get back from, you know, when you get back from snowboarding. And I think, was it Carl Young, he said, one of the greatest burdens on

a child is the unlived life of the parent. Yeah. And that's always, you know, it's really powerful, isn't it? Because I think often we think that what love is, or the narrative is, that what love is, is kind of sacrifice when actually there is sacrifice in parenting. I mean, that's kind of fundamental. We're all aware of that. But actually, we need to find ways to keep that sparkling our eye and keep feeling like ourselves because that is what we bring to the world.

That is what we bring to our families. That is what we bring to our kids. And what a good, like, image for your kids to just be like, oh, mum's gone dancing because she loves dancing. Like, that's cool, right? That sets a really good example. Like, you know, my children see me go off snowboarding. They're like, oh, we want to go.

come we want to come and like the deal is I have to take them on a snowboard ski whatever holiday um you know and if I go on they have to go on one but like what how cool is that they're like mummy's off snowboarding what a great impression that just shows them that I've gone out and just following what something you know a sport in particular that I love and like hopefully yeah they'll grow up you know I remember growing up just sat in a car for like hours waiting for my dad to finish windsurfing Like, that was character building and, you know, like, you know, I put up with it, whatever. It's like, okay, great. He likes windsurfing.

We have to sit here for two hours and wait for him to finish. But like, cool. Like, that's cool, right? I'm glad he did that. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's also the impression. I think, you know, there's a stat like, and I don't know the stat, but there's a kind of piece of research, should we say,

that shows that if your children see you do exercise, like they're much more likely. to grow up and have a healthy attitude towards exercise. So I think there's a lot of, you know, you show by example, right? So those kind of, and I also think with the guilt thing, just choose not to get guilty. Like it's not that hard. Are you actually doing anything wrong or are you actually doing something right? It's just the narrative that is wrong.

Yeah. Like my kids are fine. Like they're great. They're happy. Why should I feel guilty for going snowboarding? Like why? What? what because I'm not spending like three days with them when I spend like every single day

of their lives with them like no I don't feel bad about that like you know there's a lot of I don't know yeah it makes my mental health like that's the best thing I can do for my mental health is go like out so yeah good good I love it and I think this will be inspiring in a lot of people just those thoughts of like oh what are those things that I haven't done in years I've got a message on one of the school WhatsApp groups, of which I seem to be on more WhatsApp groups than I actually have kids, which is confusing. Someone's saying, I'm going to start up a netball team, and I'm terrible at Netball, you know, but I just thought, isn't that amazing? There'll be some people sitting in their living rooms tonight thinking, wait a minute, I used to love Netball.

Yeah. I've not thought about that in years and actually just some of these little cogs creaking and the little like fire, you know, the fire just being stoked. And I think it's so good for our kids. to see that life doesn't just end at parenting fun doesn't, you know, get it all in now because once you're a parent, that's it, it's game over. Life is not about you anymore. And yeah, I don't want my kids to think that. No. So I love that. Oh, I wonder what people are going to deal off the basketball. I wonder what people are doing. I've been thinking about. Like, I never, I like huge fan of like women's football, right? I love watching it. I've been to some matches. I follow it. I love, like, I absolutely, like, you know, the last couple of years,

it's like a sport I never thought I would enjoy watching so much. And I'm like, God, I wish I'd played football at school. And I'm like, I reckon I'd been quite good at football. Like, it's kind of got, you know, I've got good balance. I don't know. There's something tells me that it would have liked it. So now I'm like, hmm, maybe I'll stop. Maybe you'll try.

Have a little Google. See what's going around. I like, I like that. Yeah, it's like, why not? Like what stop? Why not? Yeah. Why not?

Yeah. And I think there are many why nots, you know, logistics and, you know, time and energy, but actually just finding some way to engage in these things. Yeah. And taking some way to. Like I'm going to learn, you know, like football or skateboarding, whatever it is. You're like, do you know what? Let's do it.

Why not? What is it? Why not? Yeah. No, I love it. I can, yeah, I can just imagine the cogs turning and people can make it. Why do I feel guilty about this? Why do I feel guilty about this?

about that. Maybe it's not them doing anything wrong. Maybe it's the narrative that is wrong. Exactly. And yeah. Yeah, well, thank you for that. So to finish off, I would like to ask you some quick-fire questions. So you've spoken about snowboarding, you've spoken about potentially football, home stuff. But what is something else that makes you feel good, which is great, because this is basically what the whole podcast is about. But give us another one. I like spending time of my friends, music. I love music, listening to music, dancing around my kitchen. Yeah, do you know what I really like? It's just like, yeah, talking to my friends

and laughing about funny stories. Like the other thing, my friend was like talking about what quality she looks in a friendship. And I was like, you know, she had certain things. I was like, I mean, a sense of humour. Like, that's number one. I love that. I love like.

Right up there. Just talking about funny things. Yeah. Oh, laughter is such a therapy. I definitely was through the pandemic. I appreciated all of the gifts and all of those stupid, like anything funny just to kind of bring a little bit of light into all of the heaviness was therapeutic.

So there's kind of like a theme of fun here, isn't there? Just speaking fun. Like don't let the fun get edged out as you're facilitating it for everyone else in life. And yeah, we benefit, our family's benefit. It's stress relieving, it's like mood lifting, all of these things. So think about what is fun and find a way to wedge it in there and to make space for it. So thank you. So Zoe, you've got your amazing eyewear, which I now have a couple that I've got my eyes on.

That's a terrible pun. It was an accident. That was an accidental pen. I love a pun. Accident or not. And your Instagram, obviously, which is just full of just you and life and style and parenting and all of that. And then you've got your ski trips. Yeah.

So if anyone is listening, thinking, oh, I used to love doing that. Or like me, I've never tried it. But I'll probably be one of those people that broke their leg on the first try, to be honest. I've got no coordination. But how can people find out more? So the ski trips are on my Instagram. I do them with my friends. We go off to Austria.

I do them my friends with Columa Travel. But if you just scroll down a few posts on my Instagram, you'll find, like, snowboarding, or just direct message me and I'll send you the info. Sunglasses are zoidapass.com. What else do I do? Yeah, they're the two main things I've got going on. I have got a lot of other little projects, but let's leave it at that. Let's leave it at that, but your Instagram is a good kind of way to find out all the different bits and pieces that you do.

Thank you very much for inspiring us. Thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks for your time. Cool. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of The Therapy Edit. If you have enjoyed it, don't forget to subscribe and review for me. Also, if you need any resources at all, I have lots of videos and courses on everything from health anxiety to driving anxiety and people pleasing nail all on my website,

anamatha.com. And also, don't forget my brand new book, Raising a Happier Mother is out now for you to enjoy and benefit from. It's all about how to find balance, feel good, and see your children flourish as a result. Speak to you soon.