The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Ashley Ray

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

Comedian, writer, and podcaster Ashley Ray joins Andy Richter to discuss getting paid to watch TV, working at The Onion, her transition from spoken word poetry to stand up comedy, when old reviews come back to haunt you, and much more. Listen to Andy on Ashley's podcast, "TV, I Say."Hey there! Do you want to talk to Andy live on SiriusXM’s Conan O’Brien Radio? Leave a voicemail at 855-266-2604 or fill out this Google Form! 

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to The Three Questions. I'm your host, Andy Richter. This week, I'm talking to the great Ashley Ray. Ashley is a stand-up comedian, actor, TV writer, and podcast host. Her podcast, TV, I Say, with Ashley Ray, has been featured in the New York Times, and her stand-up comedy made her one of HBO Max's queer comics to watch. She's written for The Onion, Adult Swim,

and different news publications like New York Magazine and the A.V. Club. Ashley joined me live in the studio, but before my chat with Ashley, I wanted to let you all know that I'm working on an upcoming call-in show for Sirius XM's Conan O'Brien Radio, and I wanna hear from you.

I want you to call me. If you want to be a part of this new show, you can call 855-266-2604 or fill out the Google form in the description for this podcast episode. And now here is my conversation with the wonderful Ashley Ray. I'm good. You're good. I'm good. Yeah. Busy. Just busy. Busy, busy.

Yeah. You were just telling me you have a day job now. Yeah. That, I mean, congratulations and I'm sorry. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm just telling me you have a day job now. Yeah. That, I mean, congratulations and I'm sorry. Yeah, I can't say, you know, I'm thankful. It happened during the strike. The shows I was working on got canceled

and then we came back and, well, really nothing's come back yet. So I was like, let me stick with this day job and who will? And it's advertising, right? It's advertising, yeah. See that, you know, I don't have, from early days in, you know, like going to film school in Chicago, going to Columbia College, there were people who were like, no, I don't wanna,

I won't work in commercials, which is like, well, in Chicago then, just go home. Yeah, go home, that's all they do here, is commercials. And that's all they do there. And I mean, and that's where I learned how to be on a film set. I mean, it's, you know, student films and working on commercials. And I now, you know, I...

A guy that I PA'd with back then is now an EP at a company there, and I direct commercials for him. And it's fun. It is. It's still making little comedy bits. You know, I'm not doing the ones that are like, you know, this country is about family. You know, I'm not doing the ones that are like,

you know, this country is about family. You know, I'm not doing those. I'm doing comedy bits. You know? It's just funny commercials. It's a lot of fun. And I think doing copywriting really prepared me for the notes you get in Hollywood.

If you can handle notes from Jeff in accounting for some reason, who like is just here to, you know, give his ideas on FY25. Yeah, yeah. And if you can handle that, Hollywood, like you won't, you know, any note you can read. I was, I just was in Chicago and I had meetings, and I won't say that come,

but I was talking to some guys that are on a hardware store, or a hardware, big hardware chain account. And I was like, oh, is it like, are you having fun? They're like, oh, no, no, no, not at all. They're like, you know, like occasionally we do get a good joke in there, but mostly it's like people going like, you know, and it really true in that business,

although it's the same everywhere. There's businesses in that business, it'll be like, there's this great campaign and then literally, I've heard this, the CEO's wife saw it and went, ick, no, and then so they couldn't do it. And the similar things, both in a positive, like the Conan show early on, yeah, on NBC in the 90s,

we were alive because one of the executive sons came back and was overheard his dad talking about, yeah, the Conan show sucks. And he's like, no, it doesn't. Wake up, dad. Me and all my friends love that show. Oh, okay. Yeah, all the kids like it.

And like, I think like, I'll never fucking speak to you again if you cancel the Conan show, you know? That's really what it takes. And you know. You learn that in advertising. Yeah, yeah. It's a great lesson. So I'm happy to do it.

That's how I got my start in comedy. I was at The Onion and I worked at Onion Labs, which was like their in-house ad writing. Oh cool, in Chicago, right? In Chicago, yeah, yeah. So it was a lot of, I did work with a big hardware brand that was like, we wanna try to be funny. And usually we come up with something so funny

and then they'd be like, can we make, this is too much. Can we, actually, could it just be a family and they're nice? Yeah, yeah. You know, it's always nice when you do get somebody to be like, all right, I'll trust you as the funny person to, because, you know, it's only gonna sell more... Stuff. Yeah, stuff if it's funny.

If it's funny, it's just gonna work and be great. You can be silly, people like silly, but then that's always the notes is just take the silly, take it all away. And then it's like, well, why did you come to us? Do you know where the onion, you know, you want to do, isn't that, wasn't that the point? Yeah, so yeah, I'm happy to have this day job.

It's fun to do comedy and do stuff like this, to celebrate a new album that just came out. And then you're so humbled just quickly when you're like, I have got to get on a 3PM to really walk through the budget for this new line item. I'm so sorry. Right, right, right, for this new food product. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and it's, yeah, yeah. And also too, man, there sure is, there's nothing wrong with a steady paycheck. No, no, turns out benefits, great. Yes. Great. Yep, having somebody pay for it to get your teeth fixed. Nice. Big fan.

Yeah, yeah. Big fan of it. So, yeah, yeah. Yeah, now you're from the Midwest. It says you were born in Dallas, but you grew up in Rockford. That's right. Did you move to Rockford at an early age?

Oh yeah, I was like two years old. Oh, okay. But all my family's in Texas. I'm a fifth generation Texan, so it was very important to my family that I be born in Texas. So even though my mom had been living in Illinois and Detroit, she went to Texas just to birth me.

I stayed with my family and my mom for like two years. And then she was like, okay, we're going back. We're going back to Rockford. We're going back to Rockford, Illinois. Describe Rockford for people that don't know Rockford. Ooh, I mean, well, there's so many documentaries you can watch. There's Minding the Gap, which was nominated for an Oscar. It was on Obama's best documentaries list.

It is about how horrible and sad Rockford is, how it's just the worst place you could raise a child. The whole documentary is just three kids who are like, maybe if I'd been born anywhere else, I would have had a shot. Wow, wow. And what's the gap? Is that like the wage gap?

All the gaps. All the gaps. This one is all the gaps. You got parent, no dad, no single family, every single, no education, lots of gaps here. Cause Rockford is like a down at the heels, Midwestern manufacturing town. In the middle of northern Illinois.

I call it the Flint, Michigan of Illinois. That's like the closest. We also have the documentary, A Life Inside a Crack House, Rockford, Illinois. Which is a favorite because it was shot in my neighborhood. Oh my God. I'm a fan of it. Wow, wow, wow.

And you're probably still happy for your mom to bring, I brought you back there. Yeah, thanks mom. Thanks so much. This is a great place to choose to raise me. Well, but no, I mean, joking aside, what was it like? It wasn't that bad, honestly.

I had a lot of fun. I actually know some of the people who were in Minding the Cap and I was like, oh, we used to party. I don't know. I had a good time. Cheap Trick is from Rockford. They're fun, but you know, we had some hits. I just, I spent a lot of time doing whatever I wanted.

I guess we would break into like abandoned buildings and take pictures and we just had to be creative. And it was still that time when like we would hang out at malls. So there were places to go. I mean, did you have like a, was there enough kind of, cause I grew up in a small town. I grew up in Yorkville, which if you know, by Aurora,

kind of straight south of where you're from. And it was, you know, it was smallish. And it wasn't like people, you know, would ask me like, well, you know, like, were you a theater kid? And like, there was no fucking theater kids. You know, we had jocks and burnouts and then kids that were just sort of, you know, worked for their dad.

You know, there wasn't like these sort of identities. So was there like kind of fun creative? It's interesting because Rockford is actually the third biggest city in Illinois. So it's huge and the public schools are huge. Auburn is actually, it has one of the biggest theater programs in Illinois. So as a city, Michelle Williams from Destiny's Child

from Rockford, as a city, a lot of talent does come from there. But for some reason, my mom went, instead of putting you in that environment, how about I send you to a weirdo school, a private school where there's only like 800, not even 200 kids. There were 20 kids in my class.

Well, why weirdo? It was a country day school. Exactly what they said. We're a weirdo school. It's a weird, that was in the brochures. It was a country day school. So it was just really tiny, like 20 kids per class, and there they tried to do theater, but it was like, okay, so the 10 of you,

you're the theater. Yeah, yeah, wow. Yeah, so, you know, it was, I did have the theater kid identity. They, it was just very small. Like we had the burnout stoner hippies. It was just that there was only two of them. There were three goths.

Uh, and I, I remember thinking they were really cool, but it was just this like little high school experience. And then I, when I went to college, I was like, whoa, what are all these people? Like, how do people go to school? Yeah. Yeah. And was that kind of, was your, you didn't have a lot of friends outside, you know, like didn't have a big social group outside?

I did actually, cause I, did go to public school when I was younger, so by the time I went to this school, I knew it was weird. Oh, you had a group of kids already. Yeah, so I was like, I would leave and be like, this weird place they make me go, with these weird, they make you take Latin there. It was mandatory to take Latin in sixth grade.

And then I ended up doing it until I graduated. But you're keeping doing Latin. Yeah, I just kept doing it. And it's like, why? Why did I? Well, now, you know, you can enjoy gladiator movies, probably better than most people. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. When I was watching The Holdovers, there's that part, he's at Alia Yachtess, and I was like. I know what that means. It means the Dias cast. My friends all knew they could look at me and I got you. I got you.

I know what that means. It means the Dias cast. Nice. Yeah. Nice. So where, um, did you, when you left Rockford, like what were you going to school for? What, what were your aspirations?

Yeah. I had pretty smart teachers in high school who told me do whatever you want for your undergrad. It doesn't matter if you really want to do something. You'll have to go to like, you know, aspirations. Yeah. I had pretty smart teachers in high school who told me, do whatever you want for your undergrad. It doesn't matter if you really want to do something, you'll have to go to like, you know, like law school, you'll have to do so just do

whatever. So I went and I was like, you know what, I'm going to study English cause I like writing, with a focus on television. Cause I was obsessed with TV at the time. I just love television. I always have. And then I decided to study German and German history.

Wow. And I triple majored and was just kind of like, yeah, I'm gonna have fun here. So I made my own thesis around the history of black television and basically spent like four years watching a lot of TV in the mountains. And then they said that I could get a degree for it. Wow, and where was it in college?

I know it's- Williams College. Williams College. Western Massachusetts. And how did you pick that from coming from Rockford? They gave me a full- A scholarship. Yeah, there you go.

They gave me all of the money. Yeah, yeah. And at the time they were one of the first or second no loan schools in the country. So anyone who went there, they did not put loan packages. So they didn't want anyone to graduate with debt. So I was like, absolutely I'm going there. Oh, nice, nice.

I mean, you say it's in the mountains. Was it a fairly diverse campus or no? No, no. It was 2,000 kids. It was very tiny. It's as far west as you can go in Massachusetts and still be in Massachusetts. There's a part of campus where you are in New York

and like Vermont is five minutes away. Oh, wow. So it's in the Purple Mountains, they call it the Purple Bubble. And it was a great place to learn and also you go crazy. You truly do go crazy there. Yeah, yeah, just stir crazy because there's not much to do.

Not much to do. As soon as it snows, you can't really go out and you're like, why did I come here? Yeah, yeah. And I imagine you're not real close to, you know, like, it's not like, get on the train to go into town. A train. Yeah, yeah.

No, the closest grocery store was 20 minutes away. Oh my God. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it was an experience. But hey, they let me watch television and call it a class. I took a whole class on the wire.

I had like a one-on-one senior thesis that I truly, I made the agenda with my teacher. And she was like, do you like Scandal? Let's just watch Scandal every week. We just talk about it. Yep. I was like, yeah, cool. Sounds good. Oh, that's great.

But you know, eventually I did go on to review scandal for the AV club, so. Oh, wow. Yeah. Now did that, I mean, I watched too much television when I was a child. Same. Like I was, and it was, like it was,

I would call it a form of benign neglect, you know, where, that I was 100% on board for. I didn't know that at the time, and I think maybe I'm just realizing it right now. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, but like I had an old, I had a brother who was three years older than me who was, you know, would be like,

let's go outside and play, and I'd be like, ugh. Like, why would I do that when they're, you know, when I can watch, you know, Speed Racer on Channel 44? Oh, I would want to even stand and watch daytime shows. I'd be like, I'd rather be inside watching Judge Judy, actually. Yeah, yeah. And my mom had a daycare in our house. So she like, the entire downstairs of our house was a daycare where she took care of

kids and she worked like first, second and third shifts. So there were always kids around and they'd always want to be like, why don't you come play? We're going to go in the, and I would just be like, no, no, and third shifts, so there were always kids around. And they'd always wanna be like, why don't you come play, we're gonna go in the, and I would just be like, no, we're gonna go upstairs, and I'm gonna go watch days of our lives. Did you have a TV in your room? Oh, my mom, during the day when she was working, she would let me watch her TV in her room,

so that was also extra special. So it was like, come on, you guys, be realistic. Now, do you feel, and I'm asking this as a leading question because I could tell you how I feel about it. It has sort of given you a vocation in a way, or at least a portion of your vocation. But do you find downsides to have spent so much time in front of? No. Honestly. No.

Honestly, no, no. You know what? Your teachers are gonna tell you, you can't spend your whole life smoking pot and watching TV, and guess what you can. It has worked out for me. I am thankful for every, in fact, I probably would have watched more TV

if I could go back. There's some things I didn't get around to. See, I feel like it just destroyed my attention span. I mean, which didn't need a lot of help. Yeah, it did. Yeah. You know, it was always going to be short. I was always going to have a deficit, but now it's like, I can't, like reading a book, like sitting down. I can read things. Sure, I'm not dumb, but now it's like, I can't, like reading a book, like sitting down, I can read things, sure, I'm not dumb, but like a book that doesn't have a plot that moves,

like fuck this, you know, no way. I can't, you know, it's strange. I used to read so many books. Yeah. I was a real, yeah, and I read a lot through college. I always read like all the assignments in college, maybe not so much, but there's, yeah, okay, it's high school.

But I loved reading. And then I think after college really is when I wasn't watching TV for any good reasons. And that's when it was like, oh no. And it's all melting away in my head. Did it impact social interactions badly in any way? Like it was like, why would I go out when I, again, I'm speaking from something,

why would I go to that party when all my friends are in the box? That is definitely a problem I had throughout college and my, yeah, it was where I'd be like, why would I go out to that when Grey's Anatomy is coming on? And I'm sorry, it's the Grey's Anatomy scandal, How to Get Away with Murder, three hour block.

Okay, TV was made for me to stay inside. Did they overlap? Did they do that? Oh, it was the whole night. But I mean, you know how sometimes they would carry, you know. Yeah, all in the same way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where like the characters would go from one to the other.

Oh, they did do that, yeah. So the lady from How to Get Away with Murder was in an episode of Scandal, and then I think there's like a Gray's Anatomy, I think Addison from Gray's Anatomy shows up in How to Get Away with Murder, but yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we also had the golden age of like community 30 Rock

in the office and Parks and Recreation. How was I gonna go anywhere? Yeah. What was gonna be better than that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of great TV now, but it's shifting, you know, the different,

like network television is just non-existent. I would love to get a prime time multi-camera sitcom and be a series regular on that. It would also be like putting a big glob of cancer in my soul to do that at the same time. Like I would love it. I would be like, all right, I got this gig and it's steady and all.

Yeah, and there's so much like extra stuff that it's so perfect. And I don't have to sweat about, you know, paying for the house. Yeah, and then it's like, oh my God, this is so fucking stupid. Yeah, I watch a lot of dark side of comedy. Yeah.

And that's every single one. They're like, oh, and then I got a sitcom and I thought now I'm going to make it. And then I, everything went to hell. Yeah, no, I mean, it's, it is, it's, it's a trade. It's again, it's advertising. It's like, yeah, I'm making creative stuff, but it is just 30 second things selling yogurt or whatever. Do I wanna be in the new Young Sheldon spin-off?

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, do I know what that is? Yeah. Will I proudly crow about it? No. Will I worry about my friends seeing me in it? Yes.

I will proudly crow if you wanna put me in it, if you're listening and you, I will proudly, it'll be the biggest credit that I... See, that's the downside of having been on some really good stuff, is that now what I do, you know. And believe me, like I say, I'll do it all. Yeah. But I'm not gonna be, feel great about all of it.

Because that's gonna be the thing everyone's like, oh, from Young Sheldon, all of a sudden. That's all they know you for. Right, no, it's, but yeah, but television now, it's so spread out, but those, that heyday, there's so much, like, especially in the podcast world, I'm just struck by so much, like, rewatching of Parks and Rec and, you know, let's talk about the office

and community, you know, reunion stuff. And it just, like, there's nothing now that anyone's gonna give a shit about. That no one's gonna have any sort of like, remember the good old days of, I'm not gonna, because I have to get jobs, I'm not gonna fill in the blank of, you know, but pick a shitty.

I was gonna list a bunch of quality shows that I loved actually. But there's, you know, it just, it does really seem like, it's just not, I don't know if they're not buying the comedies. There's still gotta be funny people. There's still, I know funny people that are ready to, ready to do things and they're making it. And I don't know if it's, yeah, that people aren't paying.

I mean, Abbott Elementary, obviously huge. And that's kind of ushered in some things. Yeah, that's an exception. It feels like an exception. And I feel like a few years ago, Abbott Elementary, obviously huge, and that's kind of ushered in some things. Yeah, but it feels like an exception. And I feel like a few years ago, people would have, we would have seen a million shows like Abbott Elementary try to get picked up. And we're not seeing that. But like Kristen Wiig has a whole new Apple show

that just came out. Like the first, and I saw it last night. I was like, when did this happen? What? See? You know, it's all like Palm Casino or something, Palm, right? You'll see.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, what? This is delightful. Why didn't someone say this? Wow. So, yeah. See, and also too, I have to be fair to the comedy world that I do not watch a lot of comedy.

It's, I've said it before, it's like a plumber going home and watching HDTV. Yeah. I want, like, the thing I'm loving now is Shogun. Are you watching Shogun? Yes, yeah, I really like it. Just like it. And because it's being parsed out week to week, whatever that's called, which I do appreciate.

The right way to put it, the usual way TV was released. I do appreciate that difference. And I do, but it does, but the baby in me is like... Give me all of it. Yeah, at the end of the episode, it's like, no, they're taking away my toy. You know, now I have to snap back into reality. Yeah, but on the other end of it,

like the new season of Girls 5 Ever just came out, and it's six episodes, they put them all out at once, I finished it in an afternoon. And it's like, what? That show's so funny. It's so good. But Shog. And it's like, what? That show's so funny. It's so good. Yeah, yeah. But it's so good, it's like, no, you're gonna be good

and I'm gonna sit and I'm gonna, okay. Yeah, yeah. Well now, you got out of college. Did you come back to Rockford or did you go back to Chicago? I went back to Chicago. Back to Chicago, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, come on, Rockford. Yeah.

Rockford had a mouthful. Even my mom had left by that point. Oh really? Yeah, she moved back to Texas when I went to college. She was like, why when I went to college. She was like, why would I stay here? It's cold. Yeah, yeah.

Once you were gone was it? Yeah, once I was gone, she was like, it's cold. I'm closing the daycare. I'm gonna go to where all my family is. So I didn't have much, you know, of a reason to go back to Rockford, but Chicago, all my Rockford friends had ended up there. I love Chicago.

It's where my stepdad was from. So yeah. And did you start working for the Onion uh, for the Onion right away? Not at all. No. I actually did apply to the AV Club, but my senior year in college, they had like a staff writer TV position, and I sent my entire thesis with my application. Just in case.

Just in case. In case they wanted to, I said the whole thesis, literally the whole thing. And no, I did not get that job. I just, they were not interested. So then I got a job at a smoothie place. Okay. You know, protein bar in Chicago. Sure, absolutely. Yeah, I started there.

And I mean, and then did you, did you know that you were going to do onstage stuff? Like, did you... Yeah, I had always kind of done that. I had done spoken word all through high school and college, which is embarrassing now. Oh, like poetry kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, but back then it was cool. This was back in the day when it was, everybody wanted to do Teff Poetry Jam,

and this was cool, not like now how we see that in its bat. But... Well, I mean, you know, it depends on... Oh, it was what you think. It was the... No, I know. But I mean, but it's like, dividing line between me and a lot of people is like, like I meet people that are lovely, wonderful, intelligent people, but they're just so earnest

that it's like, oh, you won't shit talk stuff with me. Yeah. You know, like, you won't be, you won't shit talk stuff with me. Yeah. You know, like you won't be, you won't like just sit and bitch about stuff. And just complain. Yeah. You're one of those real like. And go like, get a load of those people over there

acting all, you know, all fancy. And I just think like, I couldn't, like the notion, like there's certainly in me is like, and I have written, you know, poetry, not, you know, not in a long time, but, and there's a part of me that's very sensitive and, but I just, there's also like the cynical prick that would be like, what are you doing?

Sit down. You know? I mean, well, I wrote a lot of jokes into mine. I was doing, yeah, I was like, we're doing slam poetry, but it was jokes and I would mostly talk about politics. I was very inspired by Ani DeFranco. I was a young, budding bisexual also. Remember this context.

So it was a lot of, you know, the Bush administration, like we have to come together. So it was that era. And I kind of slowly realized I didn't like the poetry part and sort of, you do it as like a black woman and people come up and they're like, thank you so much for teaching us this. This is your, wow, we really...

Well, white people. Yes, white people mostly. And I just like the parts where people laughed. So slowly I was doing storytelling in Spoken Word in Chicago, and slowly I was just going to more comedy shows and hanging with more comedians, and they were like,

well, why don't you just do the parts where people laugh? You know, you could use an option. Did you find people at the Spoken Word Poetry Kings who were annoyed that you were trying to make them laugh? Did they think that that was somehow cheap? Yes, oh yeah, there were at like the moth people, there were some things where people were really like, it's cool how you do your modern version of poetry.

Modern. And I'd be like, okay. Yeah, it's like, yeah, I had a dick joke. It was funny. People, yeah, and it wasn't a poem about my dad dying. Yeah, it was, and that's okay. It's funny. Yeah, yeah.

Well, that, I mean, so how did, you started doing comedy and then did you, how did The Onion happen? I was, so I started in advertising. I was at the Smoothie Place and eventually got hired at an ad agency and did that for a few years. And then I saw there was an opening at The Onion for like ad, copywriter, marketing person, management role. At their studio.

At their studio. And I was like, well, I've applied at like the AV, and The Onion owns the AV club and all those sites at the time. So I was like, well, I've applied at like the AV and the Onion owns the AV club and all those sites at the time. So I was like, well, I've applied to the AV club all these times. You know, I've done all this other stuff and I can't get hired there. Maybe I should just try this role and see if I get hired. I have advertising experience and I got hired. So I was originally hired on the like Onion Labs ad side of things. And slowly the people there started following me.

They started asking me to perform at shows. So I was doing like ClickHole Live. And I started just hanging out with them and going to open mics together. And slowly they were like, well, you talk about TV and stuff. Why don't you just write for the AV club as a freelance? So then I started slowly writing things

and doing both sides of it. And then I just realized like, oh, I'm doing stand up now. I was doing a bunch of open mics and then one thing led to another and I was getting booked on shows. Nice. Yeah. Like once you started doing shows, did you think that you were kind of go on a parallel track with criticism and TV writing and shows or were you kind

of hoping that the performing would overtake? Gosh, you know, I really probably should have thought about it more at the time. That's not my implication. I'm saying I know. I mean, I should have because you know what, at the time I was like, I'm going to be the best at whatever I do. I have one of those chips on my shoulders where I'm like, I'm gonna be good at everything.

And so I was a good critic. I would speak honestly and openly and really hold shows to the fire when they deserved it and lift shows up also when they deserved it. I think I was a fair critic, but in Hollywood there's no such thing as a fair critic. All critics are bad. Oh really?

So if I thought about it. Well, like what? Explain that a little bit. I mean, so I you do TV reviews, recaps every week. And this is there were 22 episode shows. I did shows like Blackish Scandal. You know, every episode of Scandal was not a hit. There were moments that were very silly. And then you're going to make fun of things.

You're going to be like, you know what, this episode's gonna see. It's a see. And then you see the thing is someone wrote that episode, a whole room of people did. And they read what you gave it a see. And then they remember you. And then when you realize, oh, actually I'm a comedian and a TV writer,

they're like, you're the girl, yeah, you're the girl who gave me a see on the AV club for my season five episode of Scandal. And it's like, you're the girl, yeah, you're the girl who gave me a C on the AV Club for my season five episode of Scandal. And it's like, yes, I did. And I stand by that grade, but I understand. Yeah, that sucks. But I didn't think about it. Because as that writer that gets that C,

they understand that it's not, no, you know, I don't know how much people understand, I mean, they understand that it's not, no, you know, I don't know how much people understand, I mean, they understand it more, but when you see episode of your favorite show written by blank, that's not true. That's not true. That person was assigned the notes that everybody in a room came up with

and the outline of the story that was broken by everybody in that room. Yeah. And they go home and they type it up basically and then they take it back and the entire room does it again. The whole room does it again. And the reason that they get their name on that one script is because of the way that the guild distributes writer fees, you know, like episode fees. You sign onto a show and you're gonna be, you know, you're gonna be producer, co-producer, whatever you are on most episodes, but you will get two per season written by,

I'm explaining, you know, you know this, I am written bys and each one of those represents, I don't know, 25 grand, you know, like a bonus for getting that on your, and so that you can then submit that for the Emmys and stuff. But you don't solo write anything. Anything. Very, very rarely does that happen.

Yeah, unless you're like Michaela Cole or, you know, something like that. Or dramas. Yeah, dramas, yeah. Some dramas, they're solely written by the person that does stuff. But you gotta be like a Mike White to get that these days. Yeah, dramas, yeah. Some dramas, they're solely written by the person that does them. But you gotta be like a Mike White

to get that these days. Right, right. And I feel like in my criticism, and also now working on both sides, I think I was very fair, and I like to educate audiences on how TV is made. Yes. Because that was a big part of what I studied,

is you know, black television and sort of the golden age of it, a lot of people see it as this wonderful time for black representation, but when you look at the writers' rooms, it was all white people. So, you know, looking at who actually was behind certain episodes and themes was something that I was really interested in, so, interested in. So I would do that for the shows I was reviewing,

and I feel like I would try to educate people on sort of, you know, this isn't this one writer that you want to yell at on Twitter, this isn't how this works. This is how it works and this is, and taking all of this into my, now how do we feel about the episode? So I feel like I was very fair, but you know, to some people there's no sense,

there's no fair in criticism. So that's it, but if I had known, I think, that I was so funny, I was actually gonna be successful. If I had known, I might have played my part. Yeah. I probably, I mean, actually now I know I just would have, I wouldn't have done it. Yeah. Yeah, no, I know. It really wasn't worth it.

I mean, thank you to everyone who loved my insecure reviews or I may destroy your reviews. I do appreciate the audience I build. I mean, I have a whole podcast thanks to it and I get to still talk about TV. But there's so many other ways to talk about TV that don't leave a paper trail of, you gave my episode a D.

There was one episode of Black-ish, the head, first of all, Chris Brown was the guest. Okay. And the headline I wrote was, Fuck Chris Brown and Black-ish Should Know Better. Stand by that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yes, yeah.

This was kind of after Chris Brown troubles, right? Oh yeah, yeah. This was, yeah, like recent past, yeah. So it was like, what are we doing here. Yeah, this was like recent past. Yeah. So it was like, what are we doing here? Yeah, I know. Oh boy. But yeah. Yeah, no, like when Twitter was Twitter,

I would find myself so many times, because I certainly watch television with a critical eye and I have a stake in it because it's, it's like being a house painter and driving by and seeing somebody did a shitty job on a house. You're like, what the fuck, you know? And I would almost like reach for my phone and start to be like, what the fuck is wrong with,

and then I'd be like, no, I need to work. You know, I- If only I had that self-control. If I- I had to learn. I mean, there were, because I certainly did it sometimes. And I mean, and also social media was definitely a learning curve of like, oh shit, people see this stuff. See this and care.

Like, if I say something snotty about somebody, they will very, like... It'll be a whole article. The worst one was, and I still feel bad about it, but I own up to it. Um, you know, when there used to be sort of hashtag games on Twitter? Yeah. Um, and you know, whatever it would be like,

you know, like bad serial names, you know, and then you'd, you know, people would make, you know, little jokes about serial names. And there was one that was, it was hashtag terrible pickup lines or something like that. And my answer was, hi, I'm Andrew Zimmern. That was my joke. Like just because Andrew Zimmern was on and that show kind of bugged me.

And, and, and within like a minute, he answers it and says, what the fuck? Which is he's entirely right about that. Like, yeah, what the fuck is he doing now? Why Andrew? Yeah, why could, I mean, somebody could have easily said, hi, I'm Andy Ritchie.

And if they had, I would have been like, ouch, but I probably wouldn't have been like, what the fuck? You know, I would have been like ouch, but I probably wouldn't have been like what the fuck You know, I would look we all take our licks and that's kind of like I said, I'm sorry, you know I think you seem like such a nice person. So it's really gonna sting. I'm sorry I don't even think I deleted it cuz I kind of like was like look I'm gonna take my lumps and yeah, that was shitty and I admit it but but also too I was I was in the pattern of,

and although you're a little more disguised, when you're on a late night talk show and you have to do topical jokes, and then you write and there are refillable bits that are like 10 jokes that are smacks on celebrities and we do them once or twice a week. Then so you write shitty jokes about mean, mean kind of poking jokes at people, but you're hiding behind the fact that like, who knows who wrote that one? Who wrote that?

That guy's gonna say it. Yeah, one of 12 people, but I don't know who it was. We don't know. Yeah, but so I was like, well, you know, that's, and now I just, I have to really kind of steer clear of that because also too, I don't even, like making fun of people, taking shots at people for fun is actually not that fun. You know, there's a place for it, I guess,

and there are deserving targets for it. If someone is a racist or whatever, fine. But I'm still sorry, Andrew Zimmern, I'm sorry. I was rude and shitty and I'm sorry. I'm also sorry, anyone I've upset on Twitter or with my reviews also. Yeah, yeah. Yes, very.

Anyone, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an act of contritions. Right, right, right, right. ["Can't You Tell My Love's A Girl?" by Andrew Zimmern, playing on guitar and guitar.] Can't you tell my love's a-growing? Well now, how did the podcast start to come about? When did you sort of be like, oh, Conan started a podcast company and I was like, oh, I guess I could do one of those. Yeah, I was late to it, but I was doing a lot of standup and writing

and I was just doing more and more standup with people who were writing the shows I was watching and I was hitting that point of like, oh. Was this in LA? This was in Chicago and LA. Oh, okay. But yeah, I moved to LA five years ago. So it was like.

And was there one like turning point which moved you out here? Yeah, well, I had a day job then too. My day job moved me to LA. Oh, okay. And I also was doing stand-up on the side. So I had a job at a tech company and they, I worked there for three years and they would fly me

between Chicago, New York, and San Francisco to do client stuff or whatever. And when I would do that, I would just do as many shows as I possibly could. So they'd send me to New York for like a week and a half. And as soon as I got done with work, I would just hit every open mic, whatever, whoever would book me.

It was like to the point where people thought I was a New York comedian because I was just there all the time. And if I was in San Francisco, I would also get down to LA. So I was traveling a lot and building more of a name. And they were like, well, we're sick of sending you all these places where you just moved to LA. So they moved me out and I was like, well, that works

because it's a comedy and I wanna write. So I did it and was doing both for a while out here until like for the first two years I was out here, I was still doing both. And then the pandemic happened. And was that when the podcasting started? Yeah, it was during the pandemic. So that's also when I got my first TV writing job. So I finally quit

my day job in tech. I was like, okay, I got a TV writing job. What was it? And that was pre pandemic. You got that job? Yeah, I feel like we like I signed it pre pandemic. And then by the time it was like going, it was like, oh, this is yeah. What was that job? Alabama Jackson. It was a adult swim show. Adult swim show, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was a good time. And I wasn't really writing about TV because like I said, I was doing,

I would go to shows and be like, oh, you're in the show that I was gonna, so cool, cool, like you see me as a peer. So they had to learn the hard way on Twitter when people would be like, you can't sit that person, you're a peer now. So I was like, okay, I need a different outlet to like still talk about TV,

because it's what I love. People wanted my opinion. People would all just ask and be like, what do you think of this? I wanna know. And a podcast seemed like a really fun way to talk about shows I love that in a non-critical way, in a non-threatening way,

TV I say is all about enjoying podcasts or enjoying television and celebrating TV. All TV. TV can be whatever you say it is. It can be 10 episodes of Below Deck. That can be great television. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you make a distinction between like, is like reality show, Do you make a distinction between, like, is like reality show, like, are you okay? Like, do you like all different kinds? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, everything is up for grad. Like everything on TV, I say. I mean, I was a 90 Day Fiancé scholar, some would say.

I wouldn't smoke at a documentary festival about 90 Day Fiancé. Yeah, you know what, I kind of, you know, during the pandemic, I was watching that and it was very enjoyable, but it was like classic TV executive, what this is working, let's thin the shit out of it. Let's play it so much and make so much out of it that it's just like, you don't even know, like you don't even know what 90 Day Fiance to tune into.

To watch and when it is. I wrote a guide for Vulture that was how to understand the 90 Day Fiancé universe. That's crazy. Because at that point there were eight spin-offs. Now I think there's 12. Wow. And I watch every single one.

Oh, do you really? Oh, I still do. I watch 90 Day Diaries, 90 Day The Single Life, 90 Day Happily Ever After. I don't a lot. Do you really not? Yeah, I don't. I literally was, I was up until 2 a.m. today doing billing

because if I don't get billing to Chrissy by 2 p.m. And then I had another podcast interview and then I had work meetings and then I do other things and it's, yeah. But sleep is. Here's the other thing, and this is just, this is a personal thing because I'm I'm on the Weed wagon I don't I and I'm finding it unfortunate. You know like it's

Not smoking weed has been good for me in my life. Yeah But you because one thing that I found especially like smoking weed at night and then watching things I a month later would be like oh this movie looks interesting and I put it on I'd be like Cause one thing that I found, especially like smoking weed at night and then watching things, I a month later would be like, oh, this movie looks interesting. And I put it on and I'd be like, oh shit, I think I've seen this. Oh yeah, I definitely have seen this.

I do that with whole TV shows. Whole movie. That's what I'm gonna say, like doesn't that get in the way of me? Do you know how many times I have watched the movie Arizona with Danny McBride, because I go, oh my gosh, I've never heard of this Danny McBride movie.

And then 50 minutes in, I'm like, I have watched this. Oh, wait a minute. Whole TV shows, I watched like a whole episode of Grey's Anatomy thinking I was watching a new one. And then 30 minutes in, I'm like, I'm watching the wrong thing. It does not help. Yeah, there are things that I've been in

that like there'll be a screening for something and I'll be like, I really seriously, and I will, I should have already seen, and I'm like, I really cannot legitimately remember if I saw this and I just was stoned or, you know. Or I just, it wasn't that great and I didn't remember. I don't know. I don't know. Or even it was great, but I still don't remember. Still don't remember. Yeah, yeah. And I just, it wasn't that great and I didn't remember. I don't know. It is. Or even it was great, but I still don't remember.

Still don't remember. And I just, I was smoking and that happened so, so much. Yes. It's, I, I've been, my, I've been wanting to kind of take a break from weed. I've smoked for a really long time. And yeah, I'm like, I'm a professional at it at this point. I'm a judge in the Emerald Cup.

Oh wow. Oh, wow. Yeah, which is like California's biggest weed conference. So I'm a real, people rely on my opinions. Yeah, when it's part of your brand, yeah. You know, so it's like, but I've been thinking I'm gonna take a break, but then I got selected to be a pre-roll judge this year. So I'm gonna have to smoke like 400 joints.

You have to try every single one that gets submitted. My doctor was like, when do you think you're going to take a break? And I was like, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got to put in the work next month. I mean, I got to meet with the judge and what do you want me

to do? But I guess I only started to think I should cut back when my doctor asked how much I was smoking. When I answered, he put his laptop screen down and stared at me. Oh, wow. And that's when I was like, wait, is that a lot?

He was like, I see a lot of people in here. And yes, that is. That's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah, yeah. I was like, okay. Is it like affecting your blood pressure or anything like that or no?

Doesn't seem to be. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, there's, yeah. Not getting lots of colds and sinus infections or anything like that? No, no.

So, you know, I just, I forget a lot of things. It works, it works. Yeah. Yeah. So I watched some TV shows multiple times. Okay. That's not the worst that could happen. Yeah, yeah. There was a quote here that you said that I thought was really, that you were like,

you found that people, I can't find it right here, but it was like you found that people kind of were expecting you to be the sad black girl. Yeah. And I wonder because being a black bisexual woman, like, has that presented throughout being a comedian and writing that, like, people expect you to sort of tick off boxes in that way? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I, people just have a hard time believing

when you are a black woman that you can also be funny. Yeah. People just... Really? I mean, because how many fucking funny black women are there in the world? Wanda Sy? So many. Yeah, yeah.

But for some reason, and I think it also is the internet and that conflating sort of how people view other people. And we've had this like, there was this push of like, you know, black girl magic, black women will save us. Like black women are these superheroes who always know what is right and what is wrong. Which is all ridiculous. And... Yeah, it's a, what a burden to put on. Yeah, and that standard kind of gets put on you. Like, you know, there would be comedians who would be like,

oh, could you listen to this bit? Do you think that's okay? And it's like, I'm not, I can't, it's not my job. I don't know, I'm not some perfect person who knows every single thing. Full of earthy wisdom, the solution to every problem. And you tell a joke and people are like, oh, I'm learning so much from that.

And it's like, it's not, it's a cum joke. You shouldn't learn any, don't learn anything from that. Shame on you. Yeah, I have a whole joke in my album about how guzzling cum made me stupid. Don't, you're not gonna learn anything from that. Well, I'm certainly not gonna guzzle cum. I need good grades.

You need good grades. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, online I would tweet jokes and people would be like, oh, this is something worth, and that's also just the internet, but people would be like, oh goodness, and I take this seriously and debate it, and I'm like, it's a joke.

Yeah. Do you all realize it's a joke? I'm being funny. Yeah. And I'm like, it's a joke. Do you all realize? It's a joke. I'm being funny. So I think it took me a while to kind of find my comedic voice and to really figure out how I wanted to play with that. Because I think it is a fun thing to play with. And on my album, I kind of do that where I talk about this expectation of like,

you know, white people wanting to know like, oh, what is the most like ethical news brand I should read and what is the most ethical coffee I should buy and should I follow Sean King? Yes or no? Don't. You should not. Don't give him money and don't follow him. You had a big beef with him, right? Yeah. I did a scam goddess with Lacey Mosley

and we did two whole episodes on Sean King because he scammed so much, we couldn't get it all into one episode. Yeah, yeah. And my first experience with him on Twitter was like, oh, okay, you know, this guy seems like he's... Legit. Yeah, like he's legit and he's saying good stuff.

And then I started to just see like reports about him and be like, oh, all right. Yeah, yeah. So you're like, why does he just keep asking for money though? And then slowly, oh, that's the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. And he got so oh, that's the whole thing. And he got so mad, he blocked both of us. He like said he was gonna try to sue us and all this stuff.

But you know, we talked about his, the allegations, it's all alleged. But you know, it's one of those things where we were doing it in jest. Like there are amazing activists who have been calling Sean King out for years and there's so much documentation, you can go out and find that. But Lacey and I are comedians. We were making jokes about this man and people were treating it like it was a like 60 minutes

documentary. And we're just like calling him Talcumex and the most ridiculous names. And people are like, one person was like, oh, I showed this to my class in college. Like he had a college class, I guess, about, I don't know, race or something. He was like, I showed, I showed them the podcast and I said they should need to listen to it and I'm like, okay. Okay. Like it's funny. Sure.

Yeah. Sure. Uh, but there's always this burden of like, but how is this uplifting or representing my people? And you're supposed to have that. And I don't like that. I don't like the- I don't blame you.

Yeah, so I kind of, I don't do it. I think in a lot of ways I'm very crass in a way that surprises people. Yeah. Well, what's in the future for you? What are you looking forward to? What are you, you know, where are you taking your brand? Yeah, where do we go?

I'm excited for the album to be out. It's like, you know, my debut, it's been something that took me eight years in standup to put together. Plug it, go ahead and give the whole people. Yeah, ice cream money. It's streaming wherever you listen to things. It came out March 1st, so a few weeks.

People like it. It's been getting good reviews. Pace liked it. The Bay Area Reporter gave it some good reviews. It was number one for a bit of time on the Amazon Best New Comedy. So it's actually good. But I've been doing stand-up since 2016

and I just really have been on the road crafting, touring, doing as many festivals as I can to really create this first hour that I wanted to present to the world as like kind of my debut. And so I'm really proud of it, but now I have to write more jokes. Now I have to do my next hour.

Yeah, how do you feel about that? You know, you've basically, and it is stuff you say over and over and over and you work and you work and you fine tune and now you can't do it anymore. Yeah, some of it I'm happy. So like the first joke I ever wrote is on this album. And it's like, I just was so sick of saying it

and doing it, I don't even do it anymore, but it's on the album, it's a great joke, I love it. But I'm like excited to finally do new things and think about new things instead of just challenge for yourself. Yeah, because it's been a lot of just editing and getting things sharp that I've already written. So now I'm starting from just a blank page and I mean, you know, some new stuff that I've been playing with over the past few months. But it's exciting. You know, but I don't know.

I'm at that point. I don't like open mics. Yeah. It's like, oh, I gotta go to an open mic, please. So I started a show with Babs Gray, who's an amazing comic. Yeah, yeah. I don't know her personally, but from the internet, you know? Yeah, she freed Britney Spears.

Yes, that's right, that's right. Good for her. Yeah, great, yeah, great funny comedian. And we started a show together at the Comedy Store because that's just the best way to get stages. You just got to start your own show. Yeah, yeah. And then you can practice jokes whenever you want to.

Yeah. And is that a monthly? Yeah, it's every second Wednesday. Nice. So it's called Flex Comedy and we let comedians do longer sets to try new weird things. Oh, good.

So yeah, it's a good time. Yeah, that's very old school alternative comedy LA scene. Exactly. I was like, I just want to bring that kind of back because I don't know where it went. The pandemic happened and now I don't know where. It's like, where's everything? Someone turned off the lights and shuffled everything around

and now I don't know how comedy happens here anymore. It's still sorting itself out. It still feels weird. It doesn't feel like we're back to normal life still. It is, it's more normal, but it's still weird. It's still weird. Like, I mean, JFL getting canceled. Yeah, yeah.

That's just for laughs. Just for laughs for those, yes. Or just for rear if you're in Montreal. Because the reason it's bankrupt and not happening is because most people don't know what it is, I guess is the thing. And in comedy, it's the thing you wanna get. It's like everybody wants JFL new faces.

I had my audition the week they announced that it wasn't happening. Oh my God. And so we're all like texting, like all the comics we're talking, we're like, so what are we, are we still having auditions? Are they gonna do like an online version of New Faces? Yeah. We're just like, how does this pivot into us still getting an opportunity? Right. Because that was, that was for people that don't know, there were comedy festivals in

Montreal and then they went to different towns and people were getting TV deals out of us, you know? And for a little, for a brief short shining period. Beautiful window. You know, and for a little for a brief, short, shining period, beautiful window, it could it could turn you around. You know, Amy Schumer got her show that way. Kevin Hart, John Carmichael. It was that thing that could blow you up, get you booked at clubs. And now it's the thing where people like, what is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And they're like, what do you mean? J.F.L. is going to tell me who's funny. Tick tock tells me who's funny.'s funny? TikTok tells me who's funny. My algorithm tells me who's funny. Thank you. Speaking of attention deficit, attention's being attacked. Oh, I had to put TikTok down. It reached where I would realize like,

oh, I've been watching TikTok as long as I watch a TV show. I will dip into it, but I like most old people see TikToks on Instagram. And I just know, like, cause my kids, you know, my kids are into it and I know people are into it, but I'm just like, no, no, that's, that is like, you know that something's dangerous for you. Like I do not need to.

I don't need it. I do not need to like grab onto that fly paper. Yeah do not need to, like, grab onto that fly paper. Yeah, it'll try at me. I watch TikToks on Twitter where people just get angry at them. Yes. Where it doesn't matter what it is. Exactly.

It could be a nice couple having a coffee and people are like, this is hell, I hate them. So that's the kind of vibe I need with my TikTok content. Yeah, yeah. Well, what do you think advice you could give people? Or what do you think is sort of, you know, like, you know, the idea here is like, what have you learned? What's, you know, if you can encapsulate it in one sort of like neat statement.

Keep your opinions to yourself. Doesn't matter what digital outlet is going to pay you $50 for 500 words on, you know, whatever, on Not Dead Yet. Don't do it. Which is a great show that has Not Dead Yet. It's funny. But, I mean, you gotta, you know, there has to be a balance in it. You know, you're here and you've given lots of opinions.

Lots and lots of opinions. So no, actually say whatever you want all the time. There's never any consequences. Yeah, okay. Somewhere in the middle there, I think, folks. But I mean, I think one thing I've done is that I have always kind of just done what I'm interested in.

I, in a lot of ways, had to define my own lanes that way. There were people who were like, you have to decide, you want to be a comic, do you want to be a critic? You want to talk about this, you want to have a podcast, you have to like define yourself. And that's not really true. You don't really have to do that. You can, especially now, there's no JFL.

There's nobody telling you. There's no industry people at HBO anymore looking for the next big thing. Just, you got to build your own audience. So go do what you want to do. See what happens. Well, ice gotta build your own audience. So go do what you wanna do. See what happens. Well, ice cream money, check it out everywhere. Everywhere.

Google it, what do you want from us? You can also, you can buy it, it's on vinyl. Oh, oh wow, that's fun. It's pink, so. Oh, that's sweet. You can order it, it's gonna be cute. Nice, nice. I know that's a good Christmas present, you know.

I mean, it's early, but still. And the cover's cute. You're gonna wanna frame it, you're gonna want it. Nice. Well, Ashley Ray, thank you so much for coming in. Thanks for having me, this was amazing. Sure, I had a really great time on your podcast, so go listen to that now, people.

And in case you didn't get enough of us. You gotta come back also. We gotta talk about everything that happened with Celebrity Jeopardy, we got a lot of it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, we'll save that for there. We gotta talk about everything that happened with Celebrity Jeopardy. There's, we got a lot of them. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's, yeah, yeah, sure. We'll save that for there. We'll save that. Well, thank you, Ashley, and thank all of you for listening.

And I'll be back next week with more of this same shit. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rich Garcia. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Nick Leow, Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista with assistance from Maddy Ogden. Research by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever

you get your podcasts. And do you have a favorite question you always like to ask people? Let us know in the review section. This has been a Team Coco production.