The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Barry Sonnenfeld Returns

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

Filmmaker Barry Sonnenfeld (Men in Black, Get Shorty) is back with Andy Richter to talk about working with actors like Tommy Lee Jones, Will Smith, and John Travolta, why Jerry Seinfeld encouraged him to try stand-up comedy, how he ended up living in Canada, and his new book, “Best Possible Place, Worst Possible Time: True Stories from a Career in Hollywood.”This episode was recorded on 10/23/24.Do you want to talk to Andy live on SiriusXM’s Conan O’Brien Radio? Leave a voicemail at 855-266-2604 or fill out our Google Form at BIT.LY/CALLANDYRICHTER. Listen to "The Andy Richter Call-In Show" every Wednesday at 1pm Pacific on SiriusXM's Conan O'Brien Channel. And listen to Langston's appearance on the Call-In Show!

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to The Three Questions. I'm your host, Andy Richter. And this week, I am talking once more to Barry Sonnenfeld. Barry's a filmmaker and television director. He's responsible for such films as Men in Black, Get Shorty, The Addams Family, and Big Trouble. You all know Big Trouble, because I'm in it with about 600 other people.

He's on here once before. He's an amazing cinematographer too. He got started with the Coen brothers. He shot When Harry Met Sally, Raising Arizona, Big and Misery. His second book, Best Possible Place, Worst Possible Time, True Stories from a Career in Hollywood, is out now and he is one of the funniest, best storytellers I've ever had on here. And that's why he came back.

So stick around. Here's my conversation with Barry Sonnenfeld. ["Can't You Tell My Love Is No More"] Can't you tell my love is no more? Well, hello everyone. Welcome to The Three Questions. This is a rare repeat visit with, but somebody that I would want to talk to anyway. And in fact, we were just in the lobby. We're in the SiriusXM building today and we're in the lobby wasting it. Talking for far too long. I'm here with Barry Sonnenfeld. It's

good to see you. You too Andy. And in person because when you did this before, it was during COVID times. That's right. And you were, and were you in BC then? Were you? I was in BC then, but not living where I'm living now. Right.

Yeah. Because you, as we spoke earlier, you're one of those people to put your money where your mouth is on 2016 when Trump got elected. I'm one of those guys who said, if Trump is elected, I'm moving to Canada. And Trump was elected and I moved to Canada. I was shooting this Netflix show called A Series of Unfortunate Events. to Canada and Trump was elected and I moved to Canada.

I was shooting this Netflix show called The Series of Unfortunate Events. It was a club. It's Lemony Snicket. Lemony Snicket, right. This is the Neil Patrick Harris version, not the Paramount Jim Carrey version. I see. And there was this woman with short hair on the set

and my wife has short hair, so immediately I was drawn to her. I was making fun of her, she was making fun of me. I didn't know why she was there. I said, who are you and why are you here? Right. And we were really. Which you have, you can say that.

I can say that, that's me, I'm adorable. Right, right. And she said, I'm Chrissy Clark, I'm the premier of British Columbia, this is October 2016, and I said, next month you may be very important to me. And the night Trump was elected, she- And she knew what you meant.

She must have known what I meant because the night, uh, he was elected, she emailed me and said, are you ready? And I knew what she meant. And I said, yes. She said, get a, uh, immigration lawyer, which I did. And we had had enough days in Canada to do this legitimately, but my immigration lawyer said, who do you know? Cause this should take 14 months and it's going to take three weeks.

I said, I don't know, Chrissy Clark, the premier of British Columbia. Yeah, that'll do it. And so we now live on a farm, uh, north of a Whistler. Wow. And that's, that's pretty mountainous, right? Isn't, aren't you like. Yeah. North of Whistler. Wow, and that's pretty mountainous, right? Isn't, aren't you like? Yeah, but truthfully, we had moved from Telluride, Colorado where our house was at 10,000 feet.

Right. Our neighbors were Larry Cassin, Kelly Ripa, and Jerry Seinfeld. Oh wow. That was a great little neighborhood we had there. Wow, wow, yeah, yeah, probably, you could borrow sugar from whoever you wanted. Lots of sugar to be had, yeah. And are you happy with the decision?

I mean, do you like, are you a Canadian citizen now? We're permanent residents. We could become Canadian citizens. We now have enough data to do that and we're figuring that out. So when you say you had enough days, is it if you worked in Canada enough and you had enough sort of,

you had record of it. That's right, you have a record of it because they're very bureaucratic. The Canadians love bureaucracy. They're not great at it, but they love it. Who is good at bureaucracies besides the Nazis? But in any case, you have to have had two years worth out of the previous five years.

It could be two days here, nine days there, 11 days there, but it had a total two years of working in Canada during the last five years. And I had had that. Nice. Well, you're here today, because you got another book out, which I have not that. Nice. Well, you're here today because you got another book out. Yes, sir.

Which I have not read, unfortunately. Is it out so far? It's out, it came out October 1. October 1st. Well, I'll have to read it because I read the first one and it was really, it's wonderful because you're just a great storyteller, surprise, surprise. And also I like that you really don't seem to give a shit

about, you know, you're not very guarded. I am guileless. Yes. And my wife always says to me, just read the audience and I just can't. I'm just that guy. I remember, I'm a big fan of David Sedaris and I was listening to one of his books

and he talks about having to make a speech to a group of people, but he didn't know who the group was and his first joke is all about fisting his mother or something. It was a made up story. And then, but it was at an old age home and there was not a single laugh in the group. So it made the audience, yeah.

Well, you know what? I love David Sedaris. I know David Sedaris. But fisting your mother is a heart-opener regard. No pun intended. Regardless of what the fucking audience is. Good point. Yeah, yeah. When would that joke work?

Yes, exactly. Exactly. So this book is, I mean, you're just kinda, this one you're just sorta telling stories, right? Cause you've been on a movie set since. 40 years. 40 years, yeah. Yeah, the first one was more about my upbringing

and my narcissistic parents. This is only about my career. The editor at Hachette said, we want a book that you could read any chapter while sitting on the toilet. Yes. So not only did I do- All the greatest literature.

That's the hallmark, yeah. My father read the entire serialization of In Cold Blood, the Truman Capote book that was in the New Yorker magazine over several weeks. And we only, and you know, Jewish men only read magazines on the toilet. Right, it sits in a little holder next to the toilet. That's right, of course, of course, with a little bit of urine on the side.

Right, of course. There's fecal, what do they call it? Fecal matter. Fecal particulate. Yeah, yeah, particulate. And so you'd knock on the one bathroom door and go, Dad, and you go, let me finish your chapter. Oh, wow. So, but in any case, yeah, so every chapter can be read

on the toilet, even if you're not constipated, you will get through any chapter in this book. Now, how do you, what's the process of writing a book like this? Do you have a conversation with somebody? Because there, you know, everybody that's been doing show business, well, everybody that's been doing anything, but especially they're, you know, everybody that's been doing show business, well, everybody's doing anything, but especially show business, you know, things

happen to you where you're around somebody that's acting like an asshole, but it just happens to be a celebrity. So people want to hear the story about somebody acting like an asshole or somebody being great and they happen to be a celebrity. How do you start organizing the stories? Do you, does somebody prompt you? Like does your wife say, you know, no? The great thing about me is I'm very regular.

So I can just vomit this stuff. I'm mixing metaphors here, but I would sit down and write 40 pages a day. The first book I cut out 40%, this book I cut out about 40%. I could already have a third book, but. Yeah. My wife is sort of my standard and practices

of the company, so I would check with her and say is this gonna be okay when I write about Gene Hackman or Travolta or Will Smith or some of the other characters I write about? And her attitude, if it's true, it's okay. So all the stories are true, therefore, sometimes it seems mean, but on the other hand, some people have read the book and said,

you're being too easy on certain people. Oh wow. Yeah. Were you worried? Well, I mean, I guess it's up to Hachette to be worried about libel and lawsuits and stuff. Yeah, no, there's nothing libelous in it at all. And truthfully, I'm 71. Yeah.

And I've been working less and less, so I have less and less to lose. So that's why I get into certain producers and studio executives in the book as well. Yeah, yeah. And when you say less and less to lose, it's just because you don't care anymore. I'm not gonna be hired for much

between now and when I die. In fact, that's my biggest concern. What am I gonna do for the next 20 years? I mean, it's- There's chickens. Yeah, we do have chickens. Yeah, yeah, sell eggs by the roadside. You know, and we're right before a golf course, so we could sell a good two dozen a week.

Although those, we get paid in Canadian money so that's a problem. Right, yeah, you know, but it works up there. It works up there, that's true. I mean, do you really worry about that? Like, you know. Oh, I'm not gonna, no one's, very few people looking to hire a 71-year-old.

Even though I have a, you know, I always say that if I was a baseball player, I'd be in the Hall of Fame. Cause if you get on base once every three times, you're batting 333. Right. That's not the case in the film and television. Have you noticed that? I have noticed that, yeah, yeah.

I have noticed that in the demands for the people that get hired to make the things, the demands on them are very, very high in terms of, and very public in terms of like, you're a failure or you've done a bunch of flops. Whereas the people that are paying for the flops, they're doing it in private, and no one ever sort of has a tally card against them.

And they keep failing upwards. When you get fired from the head of the studio, you're given a huge producing deal with the best properties that you've been developing. Right, yeah, because they're protecting each other. They know that there are a certain class of people that know everything, and although they know they don't know everything,

and so it's like if somebody gets ousted, they think, there but for the grace of Satan, well why? Right. You know, so I better take care of that person and give them a nice pile of money to fall into. I always felt that corporate presidents and CEOs should be legally responsible for their actions. Like if, I mean, this goes beyond the film business,

but like the, whoever was running Exxon during the Valdez, you know, Exxon Valdez, wouldn't have been great if that guy was threatened with going to jail? Yes. You know, and because there's no corporate responsibility at all. No.

And there should be. No, it's a huge problem. It's a whole nother talk show about like, yeah, why didn't anybody go to jail for Enron? Right. You know? Yes. You know, and how come, well, I don't want to get started.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't get me started, but yeah. I just watch, and I'm not happy that I watched it because it was, it's, there are these streaming service documentary mini-series that if they're five episodes, that's three too many. Right, right. You know, they're all pad. And I watched one about the American Gladiators

television show. And it was too many episodes. It was a compelling thing and I remembered it. And my wife, who's nine years younger than me, was like, I don't remember that at all. Like, you know, like never even, and my son who's 23 was like, what the fuck is this? That's hilarious.

But there was, it was Samuel Goldwyn Jr. who bought the concept and as it evolved too, and you know, and the nitro and laser and all these different characters, after a while, and they're selling dolls of them, they're selling lunch boxes with them, they're selling toothbrushes with them, and they're not getting a penny. And they signed their contract in perpetuity. So they were making like $500 an episode on the number one syndicated show in

the country. And the four top ones, you know, like it was Gemini, Nitro, Ice, and somebody, Zap, I think. They said, well, we want, we want participation in all this stuff. And Samuel Goldwyn Jr. told them, my father never renegotiated and I won't renegotiate either. There you go. The guy that inherited the company, the guy who has given everything, says to these people who are on the number one show

that he's paying $500 in perpetuity, nope, fuck you. Right, send them to jail. Just the hubris is just, and I mean, I shouldn't have thought about it as much as I have over the past few days. No, you really shouldn't have and You shouldn't have been watching gladiator in the first place.

I know I know there's there's all kinds of great cinema to watch but you know come on Everybody's got to eat a little garbage now and then One thing I wanted to talk about, and I know it's not sort of a part of this story, but it's something that I've been thinking about a lot about lately, which is the basic engines of people. And as you said, you wrote a whole book about your self-involved parents. Right. And they're like, and if, tell me, remind me the name of the book. Barry Sonderfeld, Call Your Mother.

Yes, which is based on a hilarious story. At Madison Square Garden in 1970, the first peace concert, Madison Square Garden, 2.20 in the morning, Jimi Hendrix is warming up for the second time. Again, Madison Square Garden, 19,600 people, and over the PA system, as Jimi Hendrix is warming up, Barry Sonnenfeld, call your mother. Call your mother, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And as I think we talked about, to get them to do, it's not like in Madison Square Garden, they're making announcements all the time. No, they're not. She must've been really fucking good. She was great. Her whole thing-

At pestering people. Yeah, her whole thing was a strength through weakness. She was a weeper, a crier, a pathological liar. And somehow she was so strong. She got through that amount of layers. Anyway, how did she get anyone to answer the switchboard in Madison Square Garden? Well, the other part that I always remember,

and you may have told me this, because I was in a movie that you directed, you may have told me this. And you were brilliant, Andy. You were truly brilliant. That's not why I bring it up, but I believe you did tell me, oh, you know what, Andy. You were truly brilliant. Well, thank you, Vigra. That's not why I bring it up. But I believe you did tell me, oh, you know what?

You did tell me this because I was making fun of my mother. I was just doing a bit about my mother and I was being unkind. And a bunch of people, and you weren't even part of the conversation. You were on the periphery of it. And a bunch of people, the people that I was talking to were like,

this is your mother you're talking about. This is your mother. And you went, I could just hear from behind me, you went, no, no, let him talk. Let him talk. That's so me, I'm a big no person. Yeah. And then, and I think you told the Jimi Hendrix story,

but you also mentioned that you did not go to college. Yes, that's correct. Because your mother guilted you into it and said the Jimi Hendrix story, but you also mentioned that you did not go to college. Yes, that's correct. Because your mother guilted you into it and said that if you go away to sleep away school, she was gonna kill herself. That's right, and the fact that she called college sleep away school says a lot.

Yes. And that you were immobilized by that. Yes, by the way, the first time she threatened to commit suicide, I was like five years old, and my dad woke me up and said, your mother wants to kill herself, convince her not to. Oh my God! Wow. Yeah.

And parent of the year award? Neither of them. Wow. So yes, my mother somehow, well, she taught me a strength through weakness weakness in fact, and this is in the book, but at the end of the first Men in Black I needed additional money to finish the movie the way I really wanted to.

The last shot which pulls back from Will Smith and Linda Fiorentino and reveals that Earth is part of a galaxy that's inside a marble of an aliens game. It's a great last shot. It sort of tonally explains the entire movie, which is we don't have a clue. I needed $750,000 for that last shot. That one would have cost 40,000

because of these things called unreal engines and all that stuff. But it was 750 grand and Lucy Fisher, who was a chairman of Sony at the time, came into my camper and I just started to cry and I put my head, my weeping face in her lap. So she was going, oh, what's wrong, Barry? What's wrong?

You know, patting my head and I said, I need 750,000. And she was so freaked out, she said, okay, you can have it, just to get me from not crying on her lap. In her lap, yeah, yeah. So I learned a lot from my mother. It wasn't all bad. Well, my, I mean, the reason that I bring it up again

is because, like I say, I've been thinking a lot lately about the people that I know, whose engines for success are I'm gonna show them. Like, and a lot of times the people that I know whose engines for success are, I'm going to show them. And a lot of times it's like, I'm going to prove to my father that I'm not an idiot. I'm going to prove to my mother that I am worthy of whatever. And I wonder, like you say, when she said, I won't let you go away to college, that you were immobilized for like a year.

Three years. Yeah, three years of immobilization. What happens and what happens in such a way that like that doesn't just ruin you? What's the difference between you and somebody who would have rightfully been completely fucked up by that for the rest of their life. And you, who go on to be effervescent of success,

and you know, the bright light of every party, of every room he's in. You are so kind, Andy. You know, I really have no idea. I was not someone who said, I'm gonna prove something to them. They were not that kind of parents. In fact, my father was a salesman,

my mother was an art teacher. Neither one of them wanted me to go into a traditional Jewish career, lawyer, doctor. My mother said she wanted me to be some sort of artist. And my dad said, don't think about a career, figure out what will make you happy and you'll figure out a way to make a living doing that. Which is- That's nice,

at least you had that. I had that, which is pretty great. Yeah. And what happened for me in terms of my effervescence is I met my wife of 35 years, sort of later in my life. I was almost 30 when I first met her. And then we were best friends for many years before we were ever in a relationship.

But the fact that we've been married for 35 years is really what has kept me going. Otherwise, I probably would still be living with my dead mother who would be stuffed in her Eames chair. In fact, my father wanted me to look into taxidermying him because he wanted to just continue to nap in the Eames chair for eternity.

And I explained that it's illegal, you're not allowed to taxidermy a human as it, because I did the research. Why not? If he's willing to, sure, why not? Why not? Give him one last. Sorry, dad, you I did the research. Yeah, yeah. Why not? If he's willing to. Sure. Sure, why not? Why not? Give him one last.

Yeah, sorry, Dad, you can't do that. You can't do that. Maybe in British Columbia, maybe if he'd moved to Canada earlier. Yeah, yeah, no, I wouldn't have taken either one of them with me though. But I will say I really don't know why it worked out for me, except that I don't know why it worked out for me. Except that I don't know why, Andy.

I was never rebelling against anything. I did stay at home for three years until NYU had a campus in the Bronx. And when they sold that campus to Bronx community, I refused to go downtown, to the downtown campus, because that was too cool. So NYU said, go to any school as a senior you want, and you can transfer the credits to NYU

and still get our diploma, like I cared about an NYU diploma. So A, so I thought, this is great, two birds, one stone, I get to go away to college, and my mother commits suicide. So how great is that? So I applied to, and I get into go away to college and my mother commits suicide. So how great is that? So I applied to and I get into Hampshire College and mom reneges. She doesn't kill herself.

So she stayed around for many more years. Yeah, so you decided to try and kill her with success. By being a success and that would get her too. But I mean, but it takes so much self galvanization to make it in this, you know, like there's so much against you and it takes so much confidence. And do you have any idea where that came from?

No, because again, I would say the confidence comes from the fact that Sweetie married me and she's a smart, capable, beautiful woman. And also, maybe because my dad was a salesman, I would be at lighting conventions and be wearing Barry Sunefeld badge, and people would come up to me and say, are you Sonny Sunefeld's son?

Oh, we love him, he's the best salesman. So I guess I had the salesman thing. Oh wow, yeah, yeah. But I would say, Andy, that luck plays such a huge part in my life. When I got out of graduate film school, this is pre-video, I bought myself a 16 millimeter camera,

a used CP16 reflex. Because my thinking was, because I thought I wanted to be a cameraman, I thought if I buy a camera, I can call myself a cameraman without feeling like I'm a dilettante. Yes. So because I own this camera,

and you know, in the first book you read that chapter about me shooting nine feature length pornos in nine days and other stuff. Because I own this camera, I happened to be at a Christmas party and there are two Jews and 50 wasps, and the two Jews were me and, across the room, Joel Cohen. Somehow we smelled each other out or something. Right, right, right.

He tells me he and his brother- It was the Peas. It was the Peas. It was the Peas and the Dovening. It was the Peas and the Yamaha. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and the Dovening, yeah. But, so he told me he and his brother Ethan had written a script for Blood Simple, And the yamaka, and the davening. So he told me he and his brother Ethan

had written a script for Blood Simple, and they were gonna shoot a trailer as if it was a finished movie, and use that trailer to raise 750 grand to make the movie. I said, I own a camera, he said, you're hired. If I had not met Joel Cohen that night and then not shot Blood Simple, Blood Simple was the first day Joel, Ethan and I had ever been on a movie set. Wow.

And that isn't to shoot the little trailer, that's to shoot the real movie? Yeah, so we shot the trailer. Is that used in the real movie? No, but the trailer, you can see it online. But we did spend a year and raise the 750 based on that trailer, and then we got along so well. I then continued on to be the DP of that film. I love that it's the same amount as the final shot

of Men in Black. Oh, Men in Black, how about that? Yeah, that it just happens to be the exact same amount. Wow, that's genius. So that one shot in Men in Black was the entire budget. The entire budget of Blood Simple. Of Blood Simple. That's so Hollywood.

Yeah, it is. Well, that is amazing because also too, they obviously were just, they got lucky too. They got lucky too. Because they obviously didn't have high standards because it's just like, this guy's got a camera. You know what I mean? I mean, they lucked out, I should say. You know? We all lucked out.

Yeah. And people always say, what did you learn from the Coen brothers? And I always say, you mean, what did the Coen brothers learn from me? Precisely. All right, I want to go back to porno, just because I mean, it's, well, I mean, what was that?

How does that come about that like, well, you've got a camera and then like some shady guy comes and says, hey kid, you know, come and shoot some pornos for me. Well, I bought the camera with another NYU student cause it was four grand, so we each had to pay two grand. And this other student knew this producer of pornos, Dick Miller of Mr. Mustard Productions. And so there we were, we bought this camera for two grand,

for four grand, and we were getting $400 a day in camera rentals, so that's 9,600. So we paid for the camera, plus we got minor salaries, but mainly we were working for camera rentals. And because I had a partner and he had a partner, no one could ever ask us to shoot anything for free. Because I'd always say, I'd love to, but I've got a partner,

so you've gotta pay for the camera rental. So it protected both of us from having to be doing a lot of freebies. Which people would hit you up for. Yeah, yeah. Well, what is that? Well, first of all, was it an attempt to kill your mother

making pornos? Like, was that finally, I'll get her now? She didn't do it when I went away to school? No, she was strong through her weaknesses. No, that wouldn't have done it. I mean, were your parents aware that you were shooting pornography at the time? They were after the fact,

but I didn't call them up and say, hey, I got a job shooting pornos. But a few weeks after I was done, not that they were aware of this, but it's so horrible. Shooting pornos is so horrible that it took me six months to be able to get an erection after the nine days of shooting pornos. It's the least sexual thing you've ever experienced.

And don't get me started on smells. It's really a nightmare. Wow. I mean, what is it? I mean, when you, how do you get, cause I mean, I just would feel like, like I can, I'm good with like filthy, dark, horrible jokes and making, you know, and I'm pretty good

with most sort of like viscera, you know, like I'm the guy that it's like, if somebody pukes, it's like, well, yeah, you got to clean it up, you know, and I'm not going gonna kill myself over it. But I am kind of a little bit of a prude, and I cannot imagine, like, being there and getting focused on genitalia slamming into each other, getting the light, you know, taking meter readings.

How do you, how does that happen? Were you okay with it it or was it daunting? Well, first of all, I'm the opposite of you in terms of vomiting. For me, I'm a sympathetic vomitor. If I see, smell, or hear vomiting, you're cleaning up my vomit as well as your kids vomit. I think what happened in my case is

when I'm looking at something through the camera, I'm totally distance. It's like I'm not there. I'm just looking at this image through the camera. So like I could go on ledges that I would never go on if I was just walking, I'd be totally frightened. But with a camera in my hand, I sort of viewed everything through that lens, as it were.

So it was disgusting, but you just, but mainly it's totally banal. The average, it takes 10 minutes to shoot the dialogue stuff, you know, the pizza delivery guy coming. And then it's like 10 minutes of sex, you know, and Dick would say, let's start with a 69 and then let's, it's like how many different versions can you do? And then the average cum shot would take four hours.

So you would then turn off the lights, lean against the wall, take a nap, or read old American cinematography magazines. And then at some point, an hour or two into them fucking, the guy would go, okay, which means I'm ready to come. So Bob and I would bring our two cameras because we also rented, I also owned a Bolex Rex 5. So we had two cameras for the cum shot.

And then we'd get ready, turn the lights up, and then Bob or I would look at each other and go soft. And then we'd get ready, turn the lights up, and then Bob or I would look at each other and go, soft. And then we'd go back. But so it was truly nine of the worst days of my life. What's, I mean, are these just Superman? What's taking the, is it just the distractions? Is it cocaine? Is it-

You tell me. Yeah, Andy, from all your years in pornos. Yeah, no. I think maybe they're just trained not to have an orgasm. I don't know. But I don't get it. And while you're leaning against the wall reading a magazine, are they continuing to have sex?

Yeah, they're- Just off camera, just like to get there. Like you've got what you need, but now it's just- Now it's about to come true. Wow, it's so romantic. It's gotta feel good for the woman. But I- It's gotta be really good for her.

The woman is totally in charge. Oh yeah. Because she can always fake stuff, but the guy can't. Right, right. Right? But I mean, but she's gotta be sort of like just the machine that is like bringing him to the money shot.

That's true. And the only power they have is to either help the guy or hurt the guy. So like, we had this woman who would just look up and go, he's soft, you know, which good luck guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, oh no, it was truly, truly, truly horrible. Oh, and then did you just do those four days and that was it?

Oh, nine days. Nine days, nine days. Yeah, oh no, God no, never again, because I really wanted to be able to have an erection again. So. Can't you tell my love's a crook? So you go from sort of like, and I mean, I imagine you had other gigs too, like industrials and things like that. Yeah, industrials.

You go from there to the Coen brothers. When do you start kind of, well, and first of all, what's it like doing Blood Simple? Are you feeling, like I project myself into that situation because I would, like I think about the first acting roles, like one thing that I just kind of learned was, because I did not feel legit at all, I felt like I was a contest winner or something, like there was no basis for people to hire me. And this is separate from feeling like, no, I can do this.

This is not, it's not brain surgery, you know? I mean, this isn't attainable skill and I have a talent for it. But I did feel early on like, people are treating me as I'm legit. So I might, it would be rude to disagree so I just would kind of fake it till I make it and was that kind of what happened with you while you're working with the Coen brothers or was

it such a such a sort of collaborative atmosphere of young people that you're all kind of learning together? Yeah I think it's more the second you know Joel, Ethan and I spent many months in their apartment on Riverside Drive designing every shot. So when we got on the set, because the way you make movies inexpensively is through pre-production, to be ready to, you don't want to make any decisions on the set.

So we had storyboards, we had floor plans, we had everything. So we were never winging it. We were over, over, over prepared. And that helped us shoot that movie for that little money, but it literally, literally all changed for us overnight when it got accepted to the New York Film Festival, which was a big deal. And then Janet Maslin to the New York Film Festival, which was a big deal.

And then Janet Maslin in the New York Times gives it this rave review. She says that Joel Cohen is gonna be a director of stature. She writes about me using my name, saying the photography by Barry Sunderfeld was dazzling. And I'm outside of a gray papayas on 71st and Broadway with three hot dogs and a papaya drink for a buck 85, all beef, no bowl. And I've got the New York Times,

which would come out around seven o'clock every evening, reading that I am a brilliant dazzling photographer. And that overnight that changed Joel, Ethan and my life. I never had to work to get another job after that as a cinematographer. I just went from one job to the next. You know, I shot, well, raising Arizona, three o'clock high, throw mama from the train, big,

when Harry met Sally, misery and Miller's crossing. So I had this amazing career as a cinematographer, all because I met Joel Cohen at a party full of people from Darien, Connecticut one night. During those times, I mean, cause that's gotta be a culture shock too, to go from shooting industrials to then shooting this indie that you were so instrumental in sort of the formation of it, to then out into this industry, into sort

of like, because there's a lot of corporate kind of, you know, corporateness to it. Were there sort of like growing pains in terms of acclimating yourselves? Never growing pains as a cinematographer. The corporate stuff happened when I became a director. But as a cinematographer, I was really sought after. There are very few cameramen that could stylize a comedy. Yeah. Most comedies were about not stylization. It was just about words and the improvs and all that.

But what we did with Raising Arizona and Throw Mama and all those movies is we really stylize, we use the camera as another character in the movie. Yeah. So- In a very throwback kind of way, like kind of Preston Sturges- Yeah. Yeah, yeah. In fact, he's one of my favorite comedy directors,

which is, and that's where I learned that all actors should just talk fast. Yeah. Because here's the truth, if actors talk fast, and all I ever say to, I probably said this to you, fast or flatter. Yeah. Although you never have to be told to be flatter.

You're a brilliant, flat, brilliant, flat comedian. And I encourage everyone who loves Andy Richter to watch Big Trouble because he plays an amazing security guard in Miami. And his twin brother. And his twin brother at the airport. That's right. But anyway, if actors are made to talk fast,

it doesn't give them time to act. And I hate to watch acting on the screen. Yeah. I love natural sort of non-acting. Yeah. So anyway, so faster, flatter. That's one of my things too, and I see it all the time. I just recently did something that was a reading,

like a kind of a benefit reading kind of thing. And they're just, I hear other actors, and I would always feel this way at table reads, for movies or television shows, but there's just actors that just, they really do take their time with the lines and I just am like, oh dummy. No, no, no, don't do that.

No one's, it's not like, it's not your turn to speak. You know what I mean? It's not like, you're not supposed to be luxuriating. You're supposed to be moving it along, you know? And I, you know, I don't know how much of that. It's just like my damaged attention span. No, it's just brilliant. Yeah.

Brilliance on your part. Well, thank you. But I mean, but yeah, no, it is just, especially comedy. It does feel like it's gotta move. It's gotta move. You gotta step on each other's lines. I have two different chapters in the book. One is with Lee Pace trying to get him to talk fast

for Pushing Daisies. And if you see the pilot, man, that guy is a trillion miles an hour. And the first night I ever worked with him, we hired him and I had never met him. So he came to my room and the producers were there and the casting director was there. And I have Lee, and we're gonna now bring Lee to the studio and the network

Tomorrow the next morning to say here's our Ned Yes, and Lee reads the scene and I am sweating because it feels like hours Yeah, you're still on page one. Yeah, three page scene and I say to Lee Okay, that was great. Let's do one more, let's do it let's say a billion times faster. And Lee says okay all right got that, now you want me to talk faster because I'm nervous or because I'm hiding something or because I'm just socially inept and I don't usually talk to people and this is where true directing comes in I go I don't usually talk to people. And this is where true directing comes in.

I go, I don't care. Just talk a lot faster. I fear if I gave him, if I said yes to one of those, it would then bring on a discussion about why he's incapable. So I just said, just talk faster. And it took me all night. And then he comes in the next morning

for the audition for the studio and the network, and he's brilliant. He's so fast, and if you look at that pilot, he is brilliantly fast. And then there's another story in the book where I have to convince Michael Stuhlbarg, who was in Men in Black III, to talk fast. That actually took me having to direct him.

Yeah, that was a tough one. How do you go from taking the pictures to knowing how to talk to actors? Okay, that was my biggest fear. So, let's back up. Okay. I was not someone who was saying I should be a director. That was, yeah, that was another thought

that crossed my mind is, are you at the beginning? Because most kids in film school, somewhere in there, whether they want to admit or not, is I'm gonna be a director. I mean, every fucking actor in this town is like, well, you know, it's a cliche. I want what I really wanna do. Yeah, right, yeah.

No, even at film school, I realized I had an ability to be a cameraman. At NYU graduate film school, you did have to direct your own movies, write your own movies to be a cameraman. At NYU Graduate Film School, you did have to direct your own movies, write your own movies, be sound men. And that was one of the great things about NYU is you really learned how to make movies. You couldn't just be a writer.

I went to Columbia College in Chicago and it was the same thing. It was like a round robin tournament of different roles on the set. You just sort of swap and, you know, so you learn every aspect. You learn every aspect and you really learn that a lot of it is about actors talking fast

and then editing out everything that's unnecessary. And you only learn that by doing it, which is why both your school and mine were kind of good that way. So I was really happy as a cameraman and then one day I was finishing up Misery, and I was staying at the Four Seasons Hotel. My wife and I were watching the Indy 500.

It was a Sunday or a Monday, whenever the Indy 500 is on. Yeah. And Scott Rudin, the producer, sent me the script for Adam's Family, and said, meet me in two hours at Shugo's, which is a place where you get scrambled eggs and pasta. Yeah, yeah. In the same dish.

And- No, Hugo's is great. It's like, it's a health food restaurant, but you know, but you can also eat like a goddamn pig if you want. You could. We didn't, but you could have. And I met him, I read the script, which wasn't at that point very good until Paul Rodnick came in

and did a total uncredited rewrite. And I said, why me, Scott? I'm not looking to be a director. And he said, well, I went to Tim Burton and I went to Terry Gilliam. And once all the good directors passed, I thought I'd take a chance with you. I said, okay, thanks.

Oh, flattering. Flattering will get you everywhere. I hope he paid for the Hugos. He left cash, in fact. And once I agreed that if he could get me the job, I'd do it. He put down cash and said, let's get out of here. So we didn't even eat the scrambled eggs

with the garlic and the pasta and the noodles. Yeah. So I became a director and my biggest fear were, would I be able to communicate with actors? Yeah. And I learned, and here's a brilliant thing I did, Andy. I'm gonna get into the weeds here. Three of my favorite cinematographers,

Gordon Willis, Jon Alonso, and Bill Fraker, had all directed one feature film, but never went on beyond one feature film. And all three films were not good. Willis directed Windows, Alonso directed FM, Fraker directed Legend of the Lone Ranger, and what each DP had done, cinematographer had done, was move their camera operator up to DP, which meant they didn't really want to give up being the DP.

Yeah, yeah. Because, so I felt I needed to hire a cameraman so good that it would force me away from the camera and into the arms of the actor. So I hired Owen Roisman who shot true confessions and was nominated for multiple Academy Awards. And that's when I discovered I could communicate with actors because you just basically they're dad.

So different actors need different kinds of parenting. Yeah. Some need a lot of hugs, some people need very little, some people need to be disciplined. But in any case, it sounds horrible. But it turns out I love working with actors and I didn't think I would. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, are you learning on the fly as you're kinda, you know, like in terms of, cause you, I mean, I've seen the different kinda actors and there's like, and like my, one of my least favorite ones is the one that just needs your attention. And by you, I mean, the director. Needs the director's attention

just because they need the director's attention. It doesn't even matter what they're talking about. It doesn't matter what the scene is. They just need this very busy person to stop for however many minutes their neuroses requires and speak directly to them. And it's amazing the range of, from big to little in terms of stature needs that. And like, what do you do when you've got this person

that just like constantly, daddy, come talk to me for a minute. Do you just do it? Luckily, very quickly they realized they're not gonna get what they want from me. Cause how many times can you say, daddy, talk to me? And then my response is, faster, flatter. Yeah, yeah.

You know, I was both thrilled and embarrassed by listening to Vincent D'Onofrio recently on a podcast where he said the two similar directors he worked with were Stanley Kubrick and Barry Sunefeld and they said, wow, this is gonna be good, I wonder what the comparison is. And then Vincent says,

neither one of them would give me any help. Stanley only just kept saying, gain more weight, gain more weight. And then when Vincent finally gained enough weight and Vincent said, now can we talk about my role in Full Metal Jacket? Kubrick said, that's your job, not mine. Yeah.

And I would just say to D'Onofrio, faster, flatter. Yeah, yeah. So I'm Kubrickian that way. Yeah, yeah. Do you come to loggerheads much with people? Like if somebody's doing it wrong or doing it in a way that you don't intend, how do you handle that?

I mean, what are the different ways to handle that? Okay, so let's talk about tender loving Jones, otherwise known as Tommy Lee Jones. So it's the first men in black. Tommy's very intimidating. He's like a cowboy. He doesn't give you a lot of warmth. He doesn't project that.

And also famously will tell you if he doesn't like you. Oh, he suffers no fools. Yes. And it's the first day of shooting. Will Smith came into the job two weeks after we started. So it was Tommy's set. said with the first day of shooting Tommy is talking to an illegal alien from not from Mexico right right from another planet and

His name is Mikey and so Mikey is speaking in an alien tongue And he's got arms and flippers and as written the line from Tommy as written is that's enough Mikey put up your hands and all your flippers first day of shooting Tommy Lee fucking Jones says that's enough Mikey put up your hands and all your flippers cut. Hey, Tommy, I think it's going to be funnier if we don't acknowledge that put up your flippers is funny. See for you, it's all in a day's work and that's what makes it funny. Yeah.

Tommy, Tommy looks at me like I can kill you with my eyes. Yeah. Yeah. So I look down at the script and I say, okay, let's do one more. It will be fun. And for 20 weeks, I had to sit on Tommy Lee Jones who kept trying to be funny. And as you know,

you always need the funny guy and the straight man. Right, right. Lucy and Ricky. Right. George Burns and Gracie Allen. You don't want two funny guys in the scene. You want, so. You also don't want somebody that's not naturally funny trying to be funny.

That's the other thing. That's the other thing. Yeah. Probably number one. Right, right. And thank God, you know, his manager would call me and say, you don't want Tommy to be funny and I had to explain the, the reaction shot is funnier than the setup to the punchline.

It's all about the reaction, blah, blah, blah. Okay, we finished the film. We're gonna have our press junket. So now I gotta show Tommy the movie. And Tommy sees the movie and the press junket, the press is amazed because Tommy's really funny. And they said, how did you learn how to be funny? And Tommy said, God love him, he said, how did you learn how to be funny? And Tommy said, God love him, he said,

the secret to being funny is stand next to Will Smith and do whatever Barry Sonnenfeld tells you to do. Oh, God bless him. God bless him. Yeah, yeah. So, I will say this, Tommy had directed a TV show called The Good Old Boys or something like that, you know, it was a TV movie, the weak kind of thing.

Right, right. And so I asked him questions. The first time I met him, I said, so Tommy, what do you do when an actor doesn't want to do what you tell him to do? You know, there's a scene where Fran McDormand is just looking out the window and never turns to the person she's angry at.

Yeah. Was that something you decided on? And Tommy said, yup. And I said, what if Fran had said, I don't want to look out the window, I want to talk to my husband or whoever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he'd say, well, I'm the director

and the actor should do what? I'd tell them. And I was like, writing this down, you know, onto the table. To throw back in his face. To throw back in his face. But I never had to. And as much as Tommy disagreed with the way I directed him,

he did it. Yeah. Also, we had amazing chemistry between Will and Tommy in that movie. Yeah, absolutely. They loved each other. Like world class. Yeah.

You know, at the Mount Rushmore of Buddy, kind of even, you know, begrudging Buddy. But what I love about that too is that like, you were helping him be Tommy Lee Jones. You were protecting his Tommy Lee Jones-ness. You're right. And he was willing to jettison it just because he thought like,

ah, there's a bunch of people in alien costumes. I gotta be funny, you know? No, his brand is exactly the opposite of being funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is why he was hired. That's great. Yeah. That's really amazing.

You bring up Will Smith. We talked about a little bit before the farting. That's been the main, the press about this book has mainly been about Will Smith being a world-class farter. Will is a world-class farter. Will is a world-class farter. I write about it in the book, but where it got out of hand and where suddenly Variety is writing

that we had to empty the stage for three hours. Yeah, that's it. Come on, Will. That would, you'd need someone to go to the hospital if that was the case. Yeah, no, exactly, yeah. So what happened was Tommy and Will were hermetically sealed inside the Ford POS that is now upside down

going through the Midtown Tunnel. So we had this piece, a plexiglass piece, of the interior car. They had to be sealed in, then been turned upside down. For a long time. for a long time, you know, about two or three minutes to take. And we're ready to, I say, roll camera, we're rolling. And they're sealed in there.

And I hear Will go, oh man, Tommy, I'm so sorry. Oh, Tommy, I'm so sorry. And you hear Tommy going, that's okay, well. No, Tommy, Baz, get us down, get us down. Emergency, get us down. I don't know what's going on. We roll the ladder in, we flip the car upside down, and Will has farted in this space that any,

they're in a, literally in a toilet bowl, right? So then Kelly Ripper interviews me, and I tell that story and then she says, so did it go out into the stage? And as a joke, I said, oh yeah, it took three hours for us to clear the stage and now that's the lead story in variety, I apologize, Will, I will say you did fart inside that her medically sealed bubble

but we did not have to clear the stage. It does happen. It does happen. It does happen. And Will is known as a fart. I remember, and it may have been the first time I ever- Do I want to hear this end? Oh yeah, yeah, it's fine.

No, it was at the premiere of Big Trouble, the movie that you directed that I was in, and it was at the premiere. And Trouble, the movie that you directed that I was in, and it was at the premiere. And he came in, you were in, because premieres, by the way, people, they're fun, but also you have to hear people talk. And it's not just you.

I could listen to you all day, but it's like, you know, it's like studio people and stuff. But there's always a little preamble. And you were in the middle of talking, and Will Smith came in, and it felt like, and interrupted you, like loudly interrupted you. And it felt like we were in the high school assembly, and that the quarterback had just walked in.

The star quarterback had just, and I was like, he's like the star quarterback had just walked in. The star quarterback had just, and I was like, he is, he's like the star quarterback of Hollywood right now. He's a movie star. Yeah, he really truly is. When we were shooting, and I've done four movies with him, but you would be on the set and these stages are huge

and you just sensed when he showed up. Yeah. One, because he's incredibly loud. Yes. And laughing and taking over any room, but also there's this weird karmic energy that certain movie stars have, and Will is one of them. He's a giant force, and you sense his personality.

But right, but he was great in that screening, the premiere, because I sat a row in front of him. You know, there's nothing better than black people and watching comedies, and he was loud and boisterous. And boisterous. And I loved him for that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that movie we talked about a little bit ago.

It got, when did it come out? Because it was like right 9-11 time. It was supposed to come out 11 days after 9-11. And it was about Johnny Knoxville and Tom Sizemore accidentally stealing a suitcase nuclear bomb that goes off in an airplane. So it couldn't be released then. So Disney just dumped it six months later

without any advertising just to dump it. And I remember like Access Hollywood or one of those intercut hour trailer with footage of the twin towers going down saying, is Hollywood ready for a comedy about 9 11, which isn't the case, but we, and it's a really funny movie with an amazing cast. It is really funny. And it has a very, it's a mad, mad, mad world. I don't know if I had, there was enough mads. I wanna talk about like, cause going from men in black,

like does doing get shorty, cause like I'm a huge Elmore Leonard fan. And when you get that property, is there like is there something, is there any difference to that? You know like to that being because Adam's family and men in black, those are pretty, there's a lot of visual wow to them. And is it hard to go from those movies into just kind of a movie that's about, you know, kind of heisty kind of stuff?

Right. Get Shorty was before Men in Black. Oh, it was. It was after the two Addams Family, but before Men in Black. But it's funny, because what I really am, what I gravitate to are sort of world creation, whether it's Addams Family or Men in Black

or Pushing Daisies or the three years I did on a series of world creation, whether it's Adam's family or Men in Black or Pushing Daisies or the three years I did on a series of unfortunate events. This sort of like real world set are kind of pushed a little bit. But Get Shorty is a straight ahead dialogue and character driven movie that I had loved the novel. I read the novel in paperback and the rights was still available. I called Danny DeVito and I shot Throw Momma from the train with him.

I wanted Danny to play Chili Palmer, the role that Travolta ended up playing. Oh my God, that would be so great. Well, I'll tell you why. Danny ended up playing the role of Shorty, which made more sense, obviously. Yeah, of course. When I read the book, because I had worked on Throw Mama,

Danny DeVito is the single most self-confident person I've ever met. Yeah. He just exudes self-confidence, even more than Will Smith. It's Danny DeVito. Yeah. And for me, the Travolta character, the Chili Pama character, is all about self-confidence.

He's a numbers runner, but by the end of the movie, just because he has self-confidence, He's a producer. He's a producer, right? And a really good producer. So Danny buys the rights for us. He ends up producing it and not playing the lead role because he decided he had to direct Matilda

by a certain date. So he said, I got to take a smaller role. We then went to Dustin Hoffman, Warren Beatty, all these other actors who all passed, Travolta passed the first time. We had dinner with him at the Celebrity Center. And the first cut of Get Shorty, I had to take to my bed and couldn't get out of bed for two weeks.

It was that bad. Oh, wow. It was slow. It didn't have any motor. It was flabby. Travolta had a terrible problem remembering his lines. So there were a lot of us and ums in there. And we just kept cutting stuff out and cutting stuff out. Here's the secret. If a scene isn't

working, get rid of it. Even if it's the single best scene in Get Shorty is not in the movie. The single funniest scene is where Travolta visits one of Gene Hackman's 10 Day Wonder sets, but it was the third scene in a row that was funny but didn't move the plot forward. So if it's not moving the plot forward, get rid of it. So eventually we got Get Shorty to where it was good and it's my favorite movie that I've done as a director, but it took such hard work to get there. I kept thinking, no one's going to want to see this movie. It's just a bunch of people talking.

But the combination of Elmore Leonard and Scott Frank, who wrote the screenplay, was so good and the acting was so good, including Hackman, who was a nightmare to work with. Really? I was gonna ask, like, just sort of comparatively, John Travolta, Gene Hackman, you've got them both, you know, I imagine both can be a handful, I'm guessing, you know, but in different ways, and what's it like to have two handfuls at once?

We, I had two handfuls, and they were in different ways. Yeah. Travolta never knew his lines. He's famous for that. I did not. He wasn't at the time. He's gotta have stuff like the other actor, I've always heard like.

Cue cards. Yeah, like cue cards written on people's shirts and stuff. Yeah, well that's, we started that on Get Shorty. Yeah. So it's the first day that Hackman and Travolta are working together. And it's a Monday morning, and we're trying to do an eight page scene.

As you know, on Features, you do about two, two and a half pages a day. But I thought there's no blocking, they're both just sitting there, so we could get through this. First day, they meet, John says, "'Hi, Gene, what'd you do this weekend? And Gene says, well, with eight fucking pages to learn,

I basically spent the whole weekend learning the script. John says, that's a waste of a weekend. So I go, oh man, I'm fucked. I am fucked. That's the first scene? First scene, first day. And I'm also trying to shoot it in a master. And it's not just you, I bet everybody on set hears that.

Oh God. Yeah, the wardrobe person is like, oh my God. It's gonna be a long shoot. I'm gonna call home and say, I won't be home for two months. Right, right until Christmas. So literally, John's not coming in with his lines, and I'm trying to shoot this in a master shot, So literally, John's not coming in with his lines

and I'm trying to shoot this in a master shot because as we discussed, action reaction in the same shot is very funny, people stepping on each other's lines, that's not happening. All right, and also I direct from the camera. I don't direct from Video Village, that's the worst place to direct because everyone has suggestions and you don't want that.

So, we have to reload the camera, we're shooting on film. I go to my wife who's at Video Village, and I go, how great is Hackman? She goes, yeah, I know he's fantastic. I come back, I go, okay, we're gonna do one more take. Gene, stand up a line earlier. Scream at me, call me an idiot. I don't care, just know that I'm fine with it.

And he says, what the fuck are you talking about? And I said, you're not mad at me, you're mad at John. You can't yell at John, because you got to act with him for the next 12 weeks. This is like where you become a parent. Yeah, yeah. So you're taking it out on me and I'm encouraging it. It doesn't bother me, I'm giving you permission.

And is Travolta gone at this point? Oh, of course. He's gone to his camper to get a turkey sandwich. He's in his plane. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's on his Qantas 707. And for 12 weeks, Gene yelled at me. Yeah. Called me an idiot.

Said he's never worked with anyone more clueless than me. But I knew it was never about me. It was about John. And Gene came to the premiere in New York City, and after the premiere, he pulled me aside and said, listen, I just gotta tell you something. I said, okay, watch Gene. He said, I just want you to know,

the entire time I was working with you, I didn't think you had a fucking clue." I said, okay, well, thanks, Gene. That's okay. He said, it's not okay. If I thought you knew what you were doing, I could have been so much better. I said, okay, that's great, Gene. Thanks, you were fine.

But so directing is like being a parent. Yeah. I had to let Gene yell at me because that's what he needed to get through this movie. It is really fucking annoying though, that he's like, I could have been better. Like it's like it's, it's still somehow your fault. It's still your fault. Like it was your fault for not being shitty for being good at your job. Because if you would, if you let me know you're good at your job, I would have been better at my job.

Yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's so many fucking children in this, grownup children in this business. What? He's so good. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, he's amazing. Yeah. He's like one of the best movie stars ever. He then went on to do another comedy. He's one of the movie stars ever. He then went on to do another comedy. He did Little Mikey Nichols remake of La Cajou Folk. What's it called?

Oh, Birdcage. Birdcage. He went on and played the senator. So he did two comedies in a row. He got the bug. And I don't know if Mike Nichols had to sit on Gene the way. Oh, I never had to sit on Gene. He knew comedy.

He was just a horrible, self-loathing human being. Yeah. Does Travolta ever take any responsibility for wasting everyone's time basically? No, it's interesting. I don't want to pick on any religion because personally, I think they're all kind of fucked. Yeah, they're all horseshit. They're all horseshit.

Sorry folks. Every single one, no offense. Spoiler alert. But here we are, two, either atheists or agnostic. But in any case, what Scientology does for Travolta, I think, and what it does for Cruz are two totally different things in that it allows them both to feel whatever's wrong kind of is, oh, it's not their fault kind of a little bit. So if John can't learn the words, it's

because the problem is with the words. It's not because he wasn't memorizing the words, it was because he was given license to not learn the words because if they were good, he would have learned them. In fact, there was a scene with Renee Russo and Travolta and Renee was having trouble with the words. And John said, let me help you. John said, hold the script. Renee said, I'm holding the script. He says, look at the script. I said, hold the script. Renee said, I'm holding the script.

He says, look at the script. I'm looking at the script. Let the script go. She let it go. He says, pick up the script. Okay, look at the script. And this goes on for about three, four, five times where Renee dropping the script.

And Renee finally says, John, what am I doing? Just what's the plan here? What's the point of this, yeah. He says, I'm giving you the freedom to let go of the script because that's the freedom you need is to let go of the script. And Renee, God love her, said, no, John, freedom for me is knowing the script,

is knowing the lines, because then I can actually act and not be thinking of the words. And I thought, Oh, Renee, I love you. And she was great in the movie. But so for John, it's about having permission not to learn it. And, and it's kind of the opposite for Tom. You know, for Tom, it's about making sure everything that he knows he's, he's on top of everything.

He's on top of everything every aspect his role yeah yeah so it gives you what you need right I guess most religions do yeah to some extent yeah how is it to go deal with these people in the Celebrity Center well that was weird the first time we met John to try and to convince him to be in Get Shorty, you know, we were in this gigantic dining room that probably held, it was like the fountain blue size, it probably held 500 people. Oh wow. And there were only two tables that had people in them.

One table was me, Scott Frank, Travolta and Danny DeVito. And across the room, there was Pavarotti and two other people. Sure. Sure. So we get done, John turns us down, he's not going to be in the movie, Danny's driving me home and Danny says to me, you wouldn't think Pavarotti was a Scientologist and I say to Danny, he's thinking the same thing about you. But luckily, Quentin Tarantino, who was a friend of Jersey Films, Danny's company, called John and said, this is not the one you pass on, this is a really good script. Because Quentin was a big Elmore Leonard fan.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and also I think that movie did do another, yet another step for Travolta in terms of it did something really good for him. That's right. Coming off of Pulp Fiction and then our movie, he was back on top again and then went on to do Primary Colors and with Mike Nichols being surrounded by Q-Cars. Yeah, yeah. And the L. Ron Hubbard science fiction one too. That was... Oh, that was a good one. Yeah, yeah. And the L. Ron Hubbard science fiction one too.

Oh, that was a good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do wanna say, is there a difference for you between television and film? Do you care? Do you opt, you know, are there pros and cons for each? I actually prefer television because it's so much less precious.

You know, as we were talking about on a feature film, you do two, two and a half pages a day. If you put a wall back in that you've removed for lighting and there's a crack in the seam, you know, on a feature, you get the standby painter and he spackles it and does that and there's no momentum. On television, it looks just as good and you shoot so much faster and you're less precious.

In the old days, television was a square medium. You know, the size of the TVs were 1 to 1.3. But now that they're big and wide and gigantic, you shoot exactly the same way you shoot a feature and that all changed with Breaking Bad. I think what Vince did was shoot it as if it were a feature with these super wide shots and all that, that really changed the look of television. So I think so much of it is because of the size of the TVs has now made it be no difference between film or theatrical release or television. They're equally fine.

Do you think that that also helps to just keep unhelpful voices from having an opinion about what you're doing? Yes, in that also because, and this is all changing so rapidly, but because film studios, now we're releasing like 12 movies a year, each movie, which costs $200 million, can make or break your job as a chairman of Sony. It's so important. Yeah, they're all deeply important. Each single one.

Yeah. Yeah, they're all deeply important. Each single one. So everyone just nickels and dimes you to death about, should we be on the closeup or over the shoulder? All that stuff that's none of that should be none of their business. Right. Right. In streamers, they're releasing eight shows a week, 10 shows a week. So no single show is going to make or break that chairman's job. So they can take more chances and do more interesting things.

That's changing now, but for a long time, the fact that we were able to do three years of a series of unfortunate events, I'm not sure we would have been picked up for a second season now. Yeah. Yeah. What it Yeah, it is. It's all different. I don't, I, the old, the guy that used to be the director on Conan, the, you know, and the student and the control room director is teaching now and the

production class, and I went to talk to his class and I felt like all these young people, like basically whenever anybody that has, you know, this works goes to something like that. The question in the air is, how do I get a job? How do I work? And I got no fucking clue as to what to tell these people. Cause I don't know. Get out of the business. I don't know, get on YouTube.

I don't even, you know, in my estimation, like I hear somebody's got a show on YouTube and I think, oh honey, that's so sad. And then I find out the guy can buy and sell me and I'm like, well fuck, I don't know anything anymore. I don't know anything anymore. Yeah. Neither do I.

Do you think you'll be working for the rest of your life? No. I mean, do you think and do you want to? I do want to. Yeah. I'm 71 and I live in fear of what I'm gonna do for the next 20 years. Yeah.

I really don't wanna sit in that one Eames chair and read books for the next 20 years. Yeah. And I don't know what I'm gonna do. And when this book gets read by enough studio people, I'm not gonna get hired again anyway. So I know, I don't know what I'm gonna do for the next 20 years.

And it scares the shit out of me. There isn't something about that that's exciting, it's just pure scary. I wish I had a hobby. I wish I wanted to become an oil painter or collect stamps, but I'm not a hobby guy. You know, maybe I'll get a very expensive Sim race car set up and pretend I'm a hobby guy. Wow. You know, maybe I'll get a very expensive sim race car set up and pretend I'm a Formula

One driver. You could spend your child's inheritance traveling the world. I've got a bum knee. I can't do that. Well, get a new knee. I did a new knee. Oh, really? It still sucks?

It still sucks. Oh, that's bad news for me because I got two shitty knees. Oh, no. I got stories. Do not get a knee replacement until you are weeping and can't sleep at night at all. All right, well that's not cause of the knee though. Well, any words of wisdom parting, you know, like that you, anything you've learned

since the last time I talked to you, is there anything, like just, you know, getting the chance to compile these anecdotes of, you know, like a dream of a career. Is there anything that kind of has come out from the process of writing this book that you feel? Well, I love writing and anyone can be a writer, just sit down in front of the typewriter or the word processor and-

Typewriter. I know. Come on, Gramps. Get your quill. And- Well, get your scribe. Your scribe. I just love, I love writing and I hope to do more writing

because no one tells you what to do. Yeah. You know, Seinfeld was my neighbor in Telluride and we would hang out and you know, I had a great screening room and everyone was there for the holidays. So I had all the, you know, Academy screeners and we would hang out.

And one day Jerry said, you should be, you should go into standup. And I said, why is that? He said, no one tells you what to do. You succeed or fail based on your own success. No one's telling you you should say that joke faster or whatever. And I said, well, Jarrah, aren't I too old?

And he said, oh yeah, you're way too old. You'll never make any money doing it. I said, okay, thanks. So what I came away from that discussion with was maybe writing is my standup comedy. Yeah, yeah. Because again, no one tells me what to do. I can tell these stories, you know,

and there's no studio executive saying that should be were not, not weren't or whatever. Right, right. Well, Barry, thank you so much for sitting down with me. Again, this is really, really fun, and I could do this all day. Andy, I love you. I love being on your show,

and please watch Andy in big trouble because he really is fantastic. Thank you so much. There's other, you know, that movie too, like you've got Zooey Deschanel and that, you got Ben Foster. Ben Foster, DJ Falls. Yeah, yeah. Stanley Foster, DJ Falls.

Yeah, yeah. Stanley Tucci is hilarious. Yeah. Sofia Vergara. Oh, that's right. That was early for her too. Yeah, that was, she was the maid, the sexy maid. Yeah, yeah.

Renee Russo is great. Everyone's great. Tim Allen isn't that great. But other than that, everyone else was really good in the movie. Was he tough to work with? Very tough. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, very tough because he was very similar to Robin Williams.

I directed Robin in RV and, you know, Tim and Robin, then we'll finish. I promise. Yeah, yeah, that's all right. Like I say, I could sit her and, you know. Tim and Robin are the same guy in that, if you sit one on one with them, they know everything about fountain pens, religion, bicycles, cars, astronomy, and they're really interesting.

And then the waiter comes and now it's show time. And they cannot not be on. And Tim was really disruptive on the set because he would ad-lib off camera and ad-lib on camera. Don't ad-lib off camera because the actor is waiting for a specific line to reply. So if you're supposed to say green on camera and I'm off camera and I'm supposed to say,

what's your favorite color? And I ad-lib and say, what's your favorite ice cream flavor? You know you still have to say green, so what's going on here? Right, right. I'm not helping you with that ad-lib. Right, right.

And that was Tim. I had a friend that worked with him and he never spoke to him the entire time that he was with him. Which Tim wouldn't speak to him. Yeah, he didn't speak. In fact, oh my god, I can tell you firsthand. Okay. At the premiere of Big Trouble, this is very dishy folks, at the premiere of Big Trouble, one of the other actors told me that the publicist, you know, because it's just such a huge

cast, and everybody's out in the, you know, the line getting, you know, because it's such a huge cast. Yeah. And everybody's out in the, you know, the line, getting, you know, interviewed, the red carpet thing. Right. One of the other actors is standing near Tim, and the publicist says, everybody get together. We're getting a cast photo. Let me gather everyone, which is like gathering 20 people. Right.

So this actor and Tim are standing next to each other, waiting for the assemblage of all these other people. And the actor says to Tim something like, So how have you been? And Tim looked off into the distance and went, What? Oh, what is that? Oh, okay. To no one, walked 10 feet and then just stood 10 feet away. Oh my god.

So that he didn't have to engage in human re-interaction with another actor that he'd been in scenes with. Yeah, well, wow. That is very Tim-like, isn't it? Yeah. Yes. Well, his last name, his real last name is Dick. Is it? It is.

His name is Timothy Dick? It's Timothy Dick. Yep. And he changed it? It's hard to believe, right? Andy Dick didn't change his. No. Anyhow.

Well, thank you, Barry. Thank you, Andy. And thank all of you for listening. This one ought to make some headlines. Come on, we dished the dirt. All right, thank you, Barry. Thank you, Andy. Thank all of you for listening. This one ought to make some headlines. Come on, we dished the dirt. All right, next week, I'll be back with more of the Three Questions. Thank you for listening. Goodbye.

The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rich Garcia. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel, executive produced by Nick Leow, Adam Sacks, and Jeff Ross, talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista, with assistance from Maddy Ogden, research by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe

to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts. And do you have a favorite question you always like to ask people? Let us know in the review section. Can't you tell my love's a-growin'? Can't you feel it ain't a-showin'? Oh, you must be a-knowin'.

I've got a big, big love. This has been a Team Coco production.