The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Carl Clemons-Hopkins

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Carl Clemons-Hopkins from “Hacks” joins Andy Richter to discuss getting fired from Chick-Fil-A, growing up in the church, how business classes informed their portrayal of Marcus on “Hacks,” working with your friends, and much more.Hey there! Do you want to talk to Andy live on SiriusXM’s Conan O’Brien Radio? Leave a voicemail at 855-266-2604 or fill out this Google Form! 

Hey everybody, welcome back to The Three Questions. I'm your host Andy Richter. This week I am talking to actor Carl Clemens Hopkins. You know Carl as Marcus on the HBO Max comedy Hacks, which is now in its third season. It just started. Before my chat with Carl, I wanted to let you all know that I'm working on an upcoming call-in show for SiriusXM Conan O'Brien Radio and I want to hear from you. We've recorded a few episodes with guests like Sonamuf Sessian and Andy Daley. If you want to be part of this new show you can call 855-266-2604 or fill out the Google form in the description for this podcast episode. Anyway, enjoy my

conversation with the great Carl Clemens Hopkins. We had a great time. He's a wonderful guy. Hi Carl, thank you so much for coming in. Hey Andy. Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here. I'm excited about the new season. I know you're excited about the new season, and I understand this is about your eighth conversation of the day about yourself. But this is the one I'm... I hate talking about myself. I do, too. It's not fun, but this is the one I've been looking forward to.

I'm glad they saved this for this part of the day. Oh, good. Good. It was a good break up to it. I'm glad, too. I been looking forward to. I'm glad they saved this for this part of the day. Oh, good. Good. I'm glad too. I was looking forward to it too. Yeah. Because it's, it's all the kinds of things that when you start out and you think like, oh, I might want to be an actor and then you have to, you know. Be an actor.

Yeah. Be an actor. Well, you also have to sort of, you have to break through the notion, you know, like the, the sort of, I don't know how you were, but like the, what seemed like a very grandiose thing to say, like, I'm going to be an actor. You know what I mean? And then you break through it and then you, you know, you get to, and then there's like all this shit, all this, all like a junket, like going on a press junket. Have you done those? Yeah, we did that a week or so ago.

And there's more coming, there's more emails, more other stuff, and I'm grateful. I don't want to be the like, oh shit, I'm on a show now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to do things. No, I'm really grateful about it, but it is, like you said, it's a weird thing, the amount of non-actor things you have to do to perpetuate

any type of career to a point. I'm looking forward to getting to the point where I'm good enough and successful enough where I don't do anything and just be a terrible wreck race and gene wilder it up. Well having been on a cog in the wheel of the publicity machine for years and years and years. What a wonderful way to describe it. That's under your headshot now. A cog in the wheel of the publicity machine.

I'm Greece. No, but you know, one thing that whenever anybody's like, oh yeah, you got to get out there and sell your thing. And I always feel like, yeah, but whenever anybody gets to the point where they can, they don't, they don't do it anymore. You know, very, very infrequently, do you see? I mean, Jean, smart, you know, she was very sparing, it seems with the amount of press that she does.

God bless her, you know? Well, and also I think, I can only speak to a limited experience, but it's a different something now. It's a different, it's not the, we're taking you on tour to various places, talking with you in different bars and restaurants and like getting this sense of who you are. It's a lot of Zooms and a lot of hashtags and a lot of dot coms and a lot of, in my opinion, even less actor-driven kind of stuff.

It's more about numbers and engagement and all these things. So when you ever get to you, you get the chance to just sit at a table and talk to someone. It's a welcome reprieve. Yeah, yeah. Well, we were talking beforehand and I was telling you about my philosophy on doing this stuff is like, does it matter? I, you know, it's like, I don't know if it matters, but that's why, which is why I think it's important to have fun.

Yep. I'm sorry. I'm just figuring out my positioning. These chairs, I don't think you can stop them from tilting. I mean, they're kind of wonderful, but also my head was like, oh, do I look all right? Do I care? The first recording I ever had in this studio, I sat in one of these chairs and the motherfucker broke.

Oh, like just broke right off. Like there's nothing worse to happen to a fat man. It'd be like, what an auspicious day. Yeah, it's like God's saying, don't get too big for your britches, fatty. Cause you're already too big for your britches. It's nice and humbling when chairs break down underneath you.

Yes, absolutely. Kind of put you in the world that you're supposed to be. Well, now, you come from humble beginnings. You weren't raised in any kind of showbiz. Well, you were raised in the church and not showbiz. That was a whole racket. But that was what the showbiz is got. That was a whole, that was a whole racket. But that was about as showbiz as it got. That was as much, as much industry as I knew coming up,

coming up in, as a younger age. Yeah, yeah. And you grew up in Georgia. It was kind of rural or was it more suburban? It was, I'll call it rural adjacent and suburban facing. Yeah. There was a very real,

I remember when certain roads were paved where it was like, oh, this is something. Or there's a mall called Stonecrest Mall that now is just a staple in the Lithonia area. But that thing took decades to build. And before it, it was just open field on this street called Turner Hill. It wasn't really an exit on the freeway. It was just grass and hills.

And that's where it was most of my life. And then when I was about 13, 14 years old, they finally built the mall and it's around the wall, restaurants or whatever. And then it felt like, oh, this is living, this is suburban, this is really facing an urban city, but until then, it was shit. Delightful shit, but it was shit. Did it change, I mean, did that change your,

were you now a mall rat or, you know? No, one of the rules in my house growing up is that you had to have a job. And so I was working all kinds of things since I was like nine, but around 14, I had to get an actual real job and that was where everyone, you either worked at the mall, around the mall, restaurant at the mall,

and my job was at a Chick-fil-A in the mall. Oh really? In like 2000, 2001. Which is, I can't think of a more wonderful, wholesome, beautiful company with a brilliant product that has not faded at all. Well, Sunday's off. Exactly, you know, for the family.

I'm all, damn, it was going so good. For our listeners, for our listeners. A decaf was just delivered. A wonderful decaf. She broke the magic What helps the magic go see there we go, uh, so yeah, I I was my best small rat slash small employee slash Wage worker. Yeah It was my first time

Falling in love with people watching in a certain way that you couldn't really do at school or at church or at home or whatever. Because we saw everybody from like Atlanta celebrities to people from school that you probably get to see outside of school. And my friends were very, very adamant about making sure that I saw every girl that they were interested in and make sure they had the best sandwiches

and the most fries and just cooking every, I ended up getting fired after a year. Oh really? Oh it was, you used to, we used to, I don't think this is still the model for chicken filet, but they're used to, if you can imagine, you would get filets of chicken breasts and you would filet them and you would season them, you would coat them and fry them and you would make

them. You would get, you know, potatoes and food was actually made. And I, people were getting doubles, people were getting extra bacon, people were getting, I was hooking everyone. If I knew you or if I went to school with you or church with you or whatever and I was cool with you, you maybe were getting $17 worth of merchandise for $4.50, because I felt like that was, I felt it was my job, you know, I can't.

Yeah, yeah. You're in the hospitality industry. I'm in the hospitality industry, and I'm never in the business of saving a corporation money. Sure. That is not, that's not what I'm here to do. Yeah, yeah. Just as a Christian.

Right. That's not what I'm here to do. So that was my big, big mall moment. Just as a Christian. That's not what I'm here to do. So that was my big moment. Yeah. Was there an awareness of their problematic political standpoint? Yes. There was? Oh my God.

Especially knowing that I knew I was a queer person from Jump, but there was very much a push to keep that, that's not something that's, your expression is not welcome. I was, I had about the same facial hair that you have at the time, right now, which is very clean. Which is, yeah, I have this little bit of scruff,

which is about as good as I can do. But I had maybe this plus five days over my mustache, and I had this supervisor who said, granted this is 2001, 2002, he's like, you need to go shave, you're like a terrorist. And I was like, what is that? I'm not a 17th century white man, I don't understand what you mean by that.

So like stuff like that was very much there. And that's Chick-fil-A or was it sort of Lithonia wide? I would say, I'm not here to disparage Lithonia. I can always disparage Chick-fil-A. So I would say it's mostly Chick-fil-A. Yeah, mostly Chick-fil-A. But also it wasn't necessarily, I'm not saying Georgia now is a wonderland

of acceptance and inclusion. I am saying that at the time it was even less. Yeah. I was very aware that there was certain wants and desires and intentions for my life. And I went against all of them in as many ways as possible, it seems. Sometimes on purpose, but often it's just like, I'm just not that person.

That's not, I'm not the guy. And I think one of the best things of my life was the more you stop lying to yourself, the happier you really are going to be. Right. And then also it opens yourself up for what is for you, what does make you happy, what does fulfill you, which for me is been a lot of acting and comedy and creativity and overall disruption. Yeah.

Did you, like about what age did you start to really feel like, this is not for me? Uh, I got it. Basically, cause I kind of had, I had the same thing and just like, I got to be a teenager and I was kind of like, I think I need to go to the city. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was, it was that my, my mother would make fun of me, like lovingly make fun

of me, like you just long for the city lights. You just have to get out of this. Like you're living a country song or something. Yeah, it was kind of a country song in that sense. But I would say around 15, 16, only because that was when I came from, and still in many ways in a different sense, have a very large family. But that was when I started to realize, oh, I'm really not like, quote unquote, the other

boys. I'm really not, I'm not showing the hallmarks of the pillar of this society that I'm being raised to be. I wasn't attracting any of the girls I was supposed to be attracting. I wasn't interested in any of the sports or areas of study that everyone else was, and I knew that I needed to... I wanted to go as far away as possible. And the trick was trying to convince certain people that it's not because of any love or lack of love for you.

It's not that I'm running from you. I just don't want this life. I don't want... This isn't for me. You know? And so that was when I started looking at different colleges and different places to go. And I wanted to go to New York. That was my thing. I'm just going to go to New York City and I'm going to do something. And my mom was like, listen, you can go anywhere but New York because you're not ready.

And I'm so glad she did because when I finally did get to New York after college, I was like, oh, this would have been too much. did because when I finally did get to New York after college I was like oh this would have been too much I couldn't go from Lithonia New York I could I would have it would have been it would have been the end of Living for the City by Stevie Wonder it would have been that it would have been that if I moved there at 17. Hey hold this for me. Hold this for me. Oh New York City what oh damn Oh, damn. And now I'm in jail. Tall buildings is everything. Exactly. It would have been exactly that. Yeah, it would have been terrible.

But I'm really glad that that was seen and encouraged by my parents. I'm really glad that they recognized, okay, clearly this is a kid who needs to go explore or whatever, and they're like, we don't care what you do, just go to college, get a degree, because you're going to college and getting a degree.

And I ended up going to college for musical theater and got a degree in musical theater, which I don't think was on anyone's bingo card. However, my dad was really proud of the fact that, A, I got a degree, and B, he could see that I could apply my mind to something. And this thing was like, if you can apply your mind to something, you can be anything you want.

Whether it be theater, where it'd be, he's a plumber by trade, like whatever, as long as you can apply your mind to it, you're gonna be pretty much golden. That's so nice and loving. And it's such a, you know. I was the baby, so I got all the, yeah, you can be whatever you want.

Right, right, right. Excellent. Well, yeah, I mean, like my son, my oldest, at one point in his teen years, I said, well, you know, you're the first one through every hurdle with us. So we don't know what the fuck we're doing. Yeah. We're making all the mistakes with you and then your sister will get the benefit of that knowledge. Sorry, it's just how it is. No, will get the benefit of that knowledge.

Sorry, it's just how it is. No, it's good to share that information. Yeah. Yeah. Kids need to know what it is. Well, Kelly Rippa once said to me, not to name drop Kelly Rippa, but I do. I do three or four times a day.

Sure. Kelly Rippa, just so you know. But no, she told me, and I don't know if this was her mother's original, but she said that her mother used to say, kids are like pancakes. She always ended up ruining the first one. That's a really good one. I love that. Yeah.

I'm going to, if, if and when I say that, I'll be sure to say that, uh, Andy Richter told me that Kelly Ripa, Kelly Ripa's mother. Please do. Please do. They passed on from Kelly Ripa's mother. Will do. As most of my wisdom is. I'm going to try to time it so I'm making pancakes when I'm telling the story, and hopefully just some kids or pieces or whatever gathered around. That's great.

Can't you tell my love's a-growing? I want to, you mentioned your dad, and in some of my research, it says that your dad would take you to the opera. Yeah. Which is amazing. And do you think that's why you're queer? Did that make you queer? Oh my God, so I'm so glad you brought it up.

My father, God rest him, he's probably haunting senators right now, but he was a Marine. He joined the Marines in 1955, which was the safest place for him to be, which has always blows my mind. But I think he is the 100 percent. The reason that I'm queer.

He won. I was just I was just making a joke. So the first movie I remember we had in the house was The King and I, because he he loved musicals, especially Raj and Hammerstein musicals, and the reason he loved them so much is because when he would be stationed places or on ships or whatever, he would go see these movies because they would be worldwide. But there was a scope to them that kind of broke the mold

with that scope and the photography in which they, the worlds that they would show. And it was such a great escape for him and such a great, you know, you'll see that, you'll see even some of the ones that are set like in the West or whatever. It's just, it takes you there and it's a really great escape. And so he would show me The King and I and I would watch it every week. And then he was like, like oh this kid likes music Okay, well next I will go to blockbuster. That's blockbuster

Younger listeners, um, and then we would get the sound of music And I was obsessed obsessed with that one. And so was he because the antagonist was Nazis. Yeah, like that's I think it's I think it's a Encountered a lot of veterans who have a very real love for that film for that reason. And then I would get a little bit older and they would send me like to basketball camp and I'm just kind of doing nothing.

I played soccer for a while, which I enjoyed, but it wasn't really my thing. And you're tall too. Yeah. And when you're like, when you're large in, you know, in any way that means in a small town especially, you're going to do sports. Oh my God. I was large, I was a military brat, I was energetic, and I could fight. So my dad was like, oh great, sign him up. This is the dream. And he was very astute, but he would notice

that I'm not really into sports or whatever, but I needed to exert some energy. And so at one point I was in dance class, and then he goes, oh, this kid likes dance, great. So he would take me to, when Alvin Ailey would come into town, he would get whatever seats he could, which is usually like right under the roof. Nose bleed, yeah.

But he had these, you know, very great binoculars that he always had. And he'd be like, oh, son, look at the dance, look at the lettuces, and look at the power, the whatever. And I, you know, nine, ten years old, I have these binoculars and these gorgeous dancers that I'm seeing zoom zoomed in. I'm like, look at them go. Yes, indeed. This is for me. Thank you, US government. Thank you. So between musicals and zoomed in dance belts, I didn't stand a fucking chance. stand a fucking chance. And did the choir at church and choir at school and so he kind of had this whole thing of like, okay, the arts, it's not going to be sports, it's not going to be the military, it's going to be the arts. And so I either painting something or they would have, remember Kinex? So I'd have all these Legos and Kinects and whatever to try to,

maybe it'll be architecture, maybe this, because these things, you have to do something. And then there was a time they would do these matinee discount tickets for the Atlanta Opera and we'd go to it and my mom loved it because she got the house to herself. My dad was just enjoying that I was enjoying something. But we would get there early sometimes, or come right after church, and you

could hear them warming up and all this other stuff. And that was what really got me interested in the idea of, oh, these are skills. These are trades. These are professions. These are things that you have to really, these are crafts that you have to hone. And I was passionate about it. and I was really excited about it.

So I'm really grateful that he would expose me to those things because especially the dancers with the binoculars. What a time. I wish I, if we had the opportunities to go to like Falcons games or football games or whatever, so hey, can we bring the binoculars? And after a while he goes, no. No, this is football. This is serious. Like, let's grow up.

Well, yeah, but binoculars at a football game would be useful too. It would be useful, but I think he got wise to why I was using them. Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that was too much. That was a step too far.

Is he still with us? He's not still with us. And when he passed? He passed, it'll be 10 years this Christmas. Oh, that's too bad. No, it was 10 years last Christmas, excuse me. He sounds like a lovely person. Oh, he's great.

And I kind of, I'm at the place, not to, left trying this too hard, but I'm at the place in like brief journey, which never ends, where I enjoy talking about him. Yeah. And like things will, I'm trying to wedge him into things, but things will spark a memory or spark something that he said or he did or whatever. And he was, he was 47 when I was born and had already had two kids. So there was, there was a lot he had figured out, a lot he still hadn't, but there was a lot of sort of like, what am I going to do this time? Like, what can I do different this time? And I'm really grateful that he took the time

and opportunity to, I really got to watch a person grow and learn and expand. And the person I remember from when I was a child is far and away different than the person that I remember around the time when he passed and got ill. And the love was throughout. It wasn't, it was very imperfect. Like I, I could, we could do another show. That's another topic of all kinds of things, but, um, actually not too dissimilar to what happens on, on this show Hacks. It's that you get to watch someone who's very set in their ways, kind of open their mind as years and experiences go by

in a really beautiful way. And so I'm just really grateful for that. But still make mistakes too. Oh, sure, sure, it's still human. But to know that that love can carry someone past what they thought their shortcomings was, I think that's just a really beautiful thing. Was there like a big sin hang up?

Like, I mean, everybody's, cause I mean, there is that. There are people who are religious, but they're not too preoccupied with sin, whereas there are others that it's all about sin. It was not a big sin hangup, cause my parents party. Thank God.

That's what I mean. Yeah, it was not a big sin hangup, but for my dad, there was a lot of societal hangups, fear of safety hangups. You know, this is the 90s, early 2000s. This is right on the heels of the peak of the AIDS epidemic, which sadly is still going on. But that was not a time to, as frankly as I can speak

to you about this now, that wasn't happening then, clearly. You know, there wasn't much of a, I was telling a friend's nephew, he was telling these things about like, I don't know why it's so hard for some people to come out or live their truth or whatever. And I'm like, you need to realize for a while, there was nothing to come out to,

that you could come out to a culture of, you know, violence, mistreatment, and death. Like there was nothing, not that there wasn't a culture in society and whatnot, but there was not the societal level of acceptance at all as it is now, and what we hope will be even better in the future. So yeah, for them it was less a sin thing

and more are you living right? Are you doing things and living in a way that will perpetuate and enhance your life as opposed to destroy it? Or, and I think also too, when your kids have to do something that you think might endanger them, even if you don't think that they're wrong for doing it, but it's just it might endanger them,

it's very inconvenient. Oh, extremely. Why can't you be safe? Now I have to worry about you. Yeah. Why don't you just do something boring and easy where I don't have to worry about you? Oh, definitely.

And my mom's thing was like, it's like, so black's not dangerous enough, huh? I'm just kidding. You gotta, you gotta just, all right. Well, you don't have much choice in year one. Living the fast lane, I guess. Yeah. But no, that parental concern is never ending,

and it's everywhere, and it's, and I'm finding, especially now that I have friends and peers who are now parents, you know, as long as it's grounded in love and rooted in the actual want for this kid's wellbeing, you can't go wrong. I mean, you'll go awry, but you won't go wrong. Yeah. You know, I mean, my son once, you know, he's 23 now and he's, you know, he's...

That's fun. Yeah. It's not a... I mean, it's like, that's a hard time anyway. And then, and now it's just like extra hard. I can't imagine it. God bless them. Yeah.

God bless these kids. But he, you know, he's had his, you know, sort of all over the map, kind of troubles, you know, like just, just lack of focus and things. And one time, yeah. And one time we were having a conversation and he was, he kind of was pissed at me and said, like, I just wish you'd been harder on me. Like, I wish you'd like, you know, like really pushed me and said, you know, like, and you know, like,

you have to achieve this. You have to achieve X, you have to achieve Y or else. And I just was like, well, I was like, honey, that, you need a different dad then, cause I just can't be that. And he's like, well, I was like, honey, that you need a different dad then, because I just can't be that. And he's like, well, I don't feel like you care about any of my achievements. And I was like, yes, I do. Cause he's like, he's had the same, he's been in the same relationship, even

through college after college, he and his boyfriend had been together for like six years now. Wow. Yeah. And, and like, and they, it's a 23. Yeah. It's a wonderful, I don't know. I mean, great. That's so beautiful. No, they're really, they really have a wonderful loving relationship and they have grown together. They met what? Primary school? Yeah. No, uh, like, like they were 16, 15, 16, something like that.

So- They're just an apple song romance. Honestly. Blooming now. No, and I mean, and it's just, and when I think about it too, like I would, and I've mentioned this on this show before, but like I would bring prom pictures to work

and some of the members of the crew that were gay would see them and I could tell that they loved it, but it was also, it also hurt. No, it's beautiful. But also you slick little bitch. Like, how come you, why do you get this? I mean, it's, it's, that's a, and I'm not, I'm not, I'm approaching my forties.

So I can only say so much, but that is a- You mean because you don't want to ever really let anyone know what your actual age is? No, no, no, because every year, I have a friend in Chicago, it's brilliant, he's in his mid-50s, and what happened was every year on my birthday, he would call me and say, hey, are you 40 yet?

Like, no, I'm not. What the fuck do you know? Click. And I'm thinking, and after a while I'm not. What the fuck do you know? Click. And I'm thinking, and after a while I'm like, you know what, you're right. You're right, what the fuck do I know? But it is interesting and it's a weird place to, it's a drawer without a label when you kind of look at

queer youth and what they're able to access and enjoy, and I'm overwhelmingly happy for them. I'm so excited for them. What a dream. And fuck. It is a dream. It's actually, I can't wrap my mind around taking a boy to prom when I was 16. Yeah.

I could, I went to prom with, so me, my friend in high school, Justin, and a few of the girls who were all in drama club, and we would have lunch in the dresses in the costume room. Yeah. in the dresses in the costume room. And Justin and I took two of the girls who they kind of, maybe were seeing each other. Justin and I were not seeing each other, but we were very good friends. And we were panicking for the first five minutes, like, we wonder if anyone knows,

we wonder if anyone knows. So the idea that it's now completely different is, it's beautiful, but it's kind of a mind boggle thing. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, when you think about the fact that like, Ellen DeGeneres' sitcom. Yeah, that was a big thing. Where she kissed somebody.

That was a gigantic thing. There were sermons about that. And it was five minutes ago. It was five minutes ago. That's so wild. It's so fast five minutes ago. That's so wild. It's all, it's so fast, you know? That's so wild. It's so fast.

Well, to end the story with my son, what I had told him was that like, yeah, you know, your grades and stuff, that's all nice. I said, but the fact that you've maintained a relationship and the fact that you have like an amazing set of wonderful friends that you love and who love you. I said, that's what I'm proud of. That's big.

And that's the most important thing to me. I was like, the rest of it, I don't care. Yeah, because the achievements, that's your achievements. You care about this kid's life, this livelihood. And that's beautiful. Yeah. I've always just, as long as you're happy, you're happy, and then everything else is your business. If you want to be a clerk, be a clerk. Are people still clerks? Well, yeah, I mean, that's what they call them. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know what else to call them. No, that's right. I love that. That was almost romantic. I appreciate it. Well, now when you start out, you go from Georgia into theater. Yeah. Did you have a dream goal? Did you have a specific or you just taking it step by step? No, I wanted to be Ben Verane.

I wanted to be- It was a whole- Taking it step by step. No, I wanted to be Ben Verene. Like I wanted to be, I wanted to be, you know, it was a whole. You wanted to fuck Liza Minnelli on backstage? That was it. That was it. Just for the Halston connection. No, I wanted to, I wanted to do musicals.

I wanted to be in Pippen. I wanted to, we watched, like, I'll Fly With Me, it was this thing about Bob Fosse, but that and also, like, Sweet Charity and things like that. I wanted to do that. I wanted to, and then when I was in Philly and then went to theater school and that'll, if you wanna fuck up a dream, go to theater school. What do you mean by that? I mean in the sense, if you wanna fuck up a dream, go to theater school. What do you mean by that?

I mean in the sense of they're, I'm not gonna fuck up a dream. That was a very real, so you wanna be in theater, huh? It's a very proving place. It's a very, but on the other hand, it's a very great place to find new dreams. It's a very great place to hone and sharpen your skills. Were you in like a conservatory?

It was conservatory style, yeah. It's that weird balance of half the people telling you how wrong you are and the other half of people are telling you believe in yourself. Yeah, yeah. Well... And it's true immersion too. You're not doing anything but theater shit. It's... It can take some extracurricular dance classes. You have to take like a couple of writing classes because they have to make sure that you're literate. Yeah.

But outside of that, and you don't really have to be that literate, but outside of that, you said that under your breath, like, like you still might get in trouble for. I mean, there's no words in front of me now, but it, it, it, I'm jumping through like years and years now, but going from there, working in Philly, then going to New York, there was a real chunk of time in New York where I was like, okay, here's what I'll do. I'll, I'll, I was taking, I was cleaning bathrooms for dance classes at steps on Broadway. And in my head, I'm like, okay, I'll be a Jerry Mitchell dancer. He tires tall people. I just have to get my skills up and try to stay pretty,

and it'll be fine. And then a lot of versions of those dreams started to actually happen. Like, I was booking more theater in the regions. I was getting bigger jobs and whatnot. And then I ended up in the original Chicago cast of Hamilton, which was really, really fun for like three months. And then it just continues.

Well, no, it's not that. Doing a show about the celebration of America before Trump is president is one thing. Oh, wow. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, we started rehearsals summer 2016, we debuted fall 2016, and then the show after the election, I was like, I gotta get the fuck out of here, this is not it, and I still have two more years.

But it kind of changed, I mean there's already a certain understandings and histories if you're going to decide to be black on stage in America. But as more and more things started to change, it kind of sullied it in a weird way. And then, you know, I'm getting older, I'm not necessarily, I kind of had a crossroads. If I wanted to keep doing know, I'm getting older, I'm not necessarily... I kind of had a crossroads. If I wanted to keep doing this, I would need to, like, submit and commit full-time to, like, this is what I want to do. This is now the dream. And I wasn't really feeling it.

You mean being a touring actor in various... Being a touring actor, being... Touring Broadway production kind of stuff. Being a seasoned corine, as I was kind of finding myself doing. Or I'd have to do something else. And I knew I still liked acting. I knew I still liked production. And I didn't really know much about film and television at all.

And so I was in Chicago after I finished that show. And how long were you with Hamilton? Two years. Two years. Wow. I was out there. And then I would understudy out here when they were out here for a little bit in San Diego.

But I knew I really loved storytelling and production and the arts section of the industry. And I kind of just started figuring it out. Like I would do some voiceover stuff to have some money in my pocket. I would assist and produce this or help strategize with that and kind of at the same time audition around and try to build up a, the confidence

of being in front of a camera. And film and television. Film and television, yeah. Because Chicago has a lot of film and television opportunities between procedurals and independent stuff. It's still very. Yeah, there's a number of shows being made there, yeah. Huge amount of shows being made. And yeah. Huge amount of shows being made.

And then there's tons of advertising there too. Yes, yes. The commercial work is real and it's sustainable. And that's kind of what my focus really was. If I get a few lines here or there, be nice, but I was doing a lot of voiceover, a lot of commercial stuff. And, you know, Hacks was completely out of the blue,

complete fluke. Like there was no auditioning happening and in pandemic There was no no Major at the time said hey, we have this thing is from the pilot season. I'm like pilot season Don't pilot season. Yeah, what are we doing? And you weren't coming off of something where they're like, oh we gotta have them No, yeah, no. I was not in demand. I was not in any decision. And the pandemic is going too. And the pandemic is going and I'm in the midst of switching gears.

I'm kind of like, well, this is all done. There's no, I was rehearsing a show at the Steppenwolf that ended up, of course, because theater shut down. And thankfully we got to redo it a couple of years back. But there was no, what I'm trying to say is I was hopeless. And the only reason I was hopeless is because there was no hope. There was no, there was nothing, there was nothing tangible to say, hey, this is where you should be going. Yeah.

Which is where God comes in. Amen. So it was completely kind of out of the blue, completely random and what I always did love and appreciate was comedy. What I always have, you know, they used to call musicals musical comedy for a reason. Even though it's a funny line about that in this scene, in this season, but I won't spoil. But it was a time not dissimilar to now where I'm like, well, if I can be part of something that's gonna make people laugh,

that's, I can do that. That'll be great. That'll be great if I can get it. I'd be great if it happens, if it's actually gonna go forward. And we had like, I was introduced to what Zoom was, had a Zoom callback and a Zoom whatever with the creatives. And my agent at the time was saying,

hey, they want to chemistry read you. And if that works, maybe we'll go to series and believe it's gonna be Gene Smart. Well And I believe it's going to be Gene Smart. Like, well, yeah, it's going to fucking series. So let me make sure I'm doing my best. Let me dust off some of these acting books and make sure I'm finding out what I need to do to build the character.

Sides and scenes at that point? Or did you know the whole script? No, I did not know. I had sides and scenes. And you don't know what the thing is. Not at all. Yeah, you're just like did you know the whole script? No, I did not know. I had sides and scenes. And you don't know what the thing is. Not at all. Yeah, not at all. You know this.

I know the general conceit. What I had at the time was it's a show, it's a dramedy about a Vegas comic. Yeah. And I went, great, that can go many ways. Right, right. And one of the sides I had actually is in the show. It was it was seen in the first season where I'm kind of setting up Caitlin Olsen's character

as she comes in there whatever but a couple of the sides were not really from the script but kind of I'll say ABA musings based on the information. So like giving some backstory on who Debra was, like there was an imaginary scene where I'm introducing Ava to the house, or introduce, or another something where, I was later in the season actually, where I'm having a debrief with Gene's character.

But independently, I didn't know what the, I don't know what the actual meat to the story is. Right. So it was a lot of faith and a lot of focus and a lot of, which was the precursor to a lot more faith and a lot more focus. Because once I get out here, my favorite memory is I got it, moving out, pack up the stuff throughout the place in California. I'm flying in October 2020, the towns would fire. And I'm like, wow, this is how we're starting a comedy.

This is how we- You wanted the plane to know where to land. Yeah, yeah. You're going right there. Just follow the smoke. And there's a blimpies right on the other side. Can't you tell my love's a grown woman? And you were thinking about, I had that you were going to apply to business school. I had applied. I was given prerequisite courses to take.

I was taking those courses. And what's funny is a lot of the, these are things about like sales, branding, startups, all that stuff, a lot of the stuff in those courses were kind of in my mind, they were being taught by Marcus in the show. Because they're not too far from each other. So it's like, here I was thinking, I'm quitting starting a new profession.

And actually, I'm doing some most specific character research. The most like, Daniel Day-Lewis level, like just methoding it up. Right, right. Who knew? So yeah, I was done. I was done. And the only reason I took the audition is because I'm still under contract. And this was the one thing that was happening in months. I was done and the only reason I took the audition is because I'm still under contract.

This was the one thing that was happening in months. I'm like, oh, I guess I'll just put this on tape and then move on. And that's the one. Wow. Is there a lot of you in Marcus or a lot of Marcus in you? I'd love to fuck him if I had the chance, but I can't. I mean, well, that's the old story, isn't it? Look at that guy in the mirror, Jesus Christ.

All right, Polo Prince, you better do it. No, we had a similar question the other day. We couldn't be more opposite. Oh, really? That's good to hear, because that guy, he's got a lot of stuff in the way of his happiness. He's got a lot of stuff in the way of his happiness. He's got a lot of stuff in the way of his happiness and a lot of that stuff is named Marcus. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's something that I'm really excited for people to see, especially this season, is,

you know, we meet Deborah Vance in season one. We meet her with Ava. We see how Ava, how they both are challenging each other and opening up each other's minds things or whatever but some of the people need to realize is Marcus has been with previous dev revans this entire time Yeah so Marcus has kind of been making a practice of suppression a practice of keeping things in balling things up, you know and that When you keep that in the practice, you're gonna be wound kind of tight. Yeah. And also seconding himself. Seconding, thirding, eliminating sometimes entirely. And it happens a lot when you are the other but alone in a situation.

You know, he's, and especially being one of my favorite types of characters to play is less than fabulous homosexuals. The fact that his expression is maybe not as loud and vibrant as others' expressions may be, and certainly not as vibrant as Debra's self-expression is. So you know, he's, there's a lot inside. There's a lot that he keeps inside and he's a very left-brained, very analytical person, which is great for what he does. He's helped expand this business and can get things done very, very quickly.

His brain is very sharp. I'm sure he's someone who dreams in numbers. I am the opposite. I am... Well, first of all, he's a capricorn anemic cancer. So that's very real. I think he's a perfectly lovely young man who also is attracted to other men. And I'm a bit of a rambunctious faggot. And those are two very different people.

They're two very different people. And that's okay. I learn a lot from Marcus. I'm learning how to work at a corporation from Marcus. I'm learning how to maybe let some things go. I'm learning how to not compromise my dignity, but I am learning how, Marcus teaches me a lot about the long game.

Marcus teaches me a lot about the long game. Marcus teaches me a lot about the, if the intention is to move this product or get this special up and out or get this whatever, someone's little jokes or quips or whatever in the meantime may not be as important. I'm learning that I don't have to curse out everybody, which has been difficult. Yeah. So pray for me. But it's, I'm really grateful for this character. I'm really grateful for this character for when in my life he came.

That was the worst way to structure that sentence. I understand. I'm going to do it again. I'm really grateful to this character. I'm really grateful that this character came in my life when he did. Came in me. Came in me when he did, yeah. It was the perfect time.

Yeah. He really, the best thing he has is coming right when he's supposed to. All the time. Yes. All the time. When he's in me... And there's craft service. Yeah.

And there's snacks. like there's food. I have this gorgeous, brilliant man inside of me and Fritos. You can't miss. Well, the one thing that I really, and you kind of touched on it, that I love about the character, is that we are getting to characters that just happen to be gay. Yeah. Thank you. They wrote characters. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And he, and I think it's also interesting too, that like, in the same way that his gayness is kind of incidental to the, to the, but I mean, it's a, it's a, a fixture

of his, of his drive to obliterate himself, to ignore himself. So it's probably a part of him. He's not crazy about. So it's like, I'll just put that in the box with all the other stuff that I'm avoiding by devoting myself to someone else. The same way that the show, it's kind of incidental. I think it's kind of incidental to him too in some ways.

Like his gain is, I mean, it matters, but it doesn't seem to matter, like, you know. I feel like it is as important, his gayness, his homosexuality is as important to his character as Debra's heterosexuality is to hers. Yeah. As important as Ava's hair is red, right? You know, it's not, what I enjoy a lot about this show

is that there are characters with character descriptions that have nothing to do with their societal adjectives. It's not Deborah's tall black gay CEO. It's this person who's been in her life since he was 16, 17 years old, who is a bit self-avoidant, who is on his own journey of self, who is very brilliant at what he does, who is still kind of grieving his father, who also has never been in a major relationship till we meet him, who is figuring out how to make friends, who is also a loner, who is also, like there's all of these things that are much more important than what society

will make the most important thing. You're wearing a blue shirt. That's not a character description. So I'm really happy that that's something that's happening with this show, and I pray that it influences other people who are writing things or making things, because there are, humanity is so much more brilliant

and so much more interesting than identity politics will lead you to believe. Yeah, yeah. And there's so many, there's much more richness, there are richer stories to tell than focusing on someone's orientation or their race or their proximity to supremacy. Unless that's the story you're telling,

that's a different story. But within this, especially within this comedy, the main point is humanity. The main point is shared humanity, and shared humanity with the intention of making some people laugh, making the day go a little bit better, and learning something on the way.

Yeah, I hope it affects it too. and learning something on the way. Yeah, I hope it affects it too. I mean, I, you know, there's, I always feel like a show that is as good as Hacks is always gonna be rare. Like, it's just, you know, the rarity of goodness is what makes it good. Is a big part of what makes it good.

So yeah, there will be, hopefully, there will be a general tendency to not just make, you know, like, well, she has to have a flamingly queer next door neighbor that tells her, you know, gives her romantic advice. And that's the only queer character. Yeah. And that's the only way we see that. Exactly. Whereas this one, you know, there's Marcus, there's Damien, there's Keek, there's all kinds of different people who serve the narrative outside of

flailing their admires all over the place. And I think even people making sort of mediocre shows, they'll know like, well, we can't just have the gay person just come in and go, I'm gay, I'm gay, and then leave, you know? I'm gay, I'm gay. All right, that's a wrap. Thanks so much.

Thank you so much. All right, we'll take you back to the trailer. See you next episode. You're in the A plot next time. I'm gay and I'm sad. No, it's just, I mean, it's just, it's generally, it's, you know, I, you know, you mentioned it, like being in comedy,

like the one thing that I really do think, and I mean, and this is so much bullshit to doing entertainment, just any kind of entertainment. Are you alluding that there's bullshit in the entertainment industry? Yes, there's- Hot takes, hot takes. My God. But it is, there's also a lot of beauty to it,

and there is, and there truly is something to the fact that when you are making people laugh, that's the end goal of what you're doing. It is the man, it is the literal manifestation of happiness. And like, how fucking good is that? Like, you know, and yeah, there's money and bullshit. Sure, there's all kinds of things. Yeah, but in doing that, that's pretty sweet. To make your living doing that is pretty great.

The actual human service of supplying the manifestation of happiness. Yeah. Like that is, I think that's one of the highest calls. That's why I'm really happy that, I never necessarily anticipated that I would be in California or be in television

or film or whatever. But I am so honored that I'm getting to do it with comedy. That I'm getting to do it with something that's helping people. Not that I don't, nothing against gripping, heartbreaking, tragic, terrible. I'm grateful to be doing a comedy now when everything seems to be extremely shit terrible. I was saying in an interview earlier today, if anything I do can make someone chuckle quietly to themselves in the middle of the afternoon, at least. I'm good with that.

I think that's a nice way to live. Yeah. How do you plan on expanding from think that's a nice way to live. Yeah. How do you plan on expanding from here? Like what are you going to, you know, I mean, you've kind of, it's been sort of not half passered, but you know, you couldn't say that. It's been, it's been, it's been its own track. Yeah.

It's been its own track. And there's been lucky timing, but also to just your own general openness to change. Yeah. And to development. Yeah. So, you know, your life has gotten bigger. How are you going to make it even bigger? My intention is to do a lot more creatively, to do a lot more on the writing side, producing

side. I have a very real interest in directing and I'll get there when I get there. But there's a lot of writing that I want to seek come to fruition. There's a lot of ideas and a lot of stories and honestly a lot of collaborations that I want to be a part of. Not necessarily collaborations with known entities, but there's... I got friends who make me laugh. I know a lot of artists who are really talented who don't necessarily have the platform of a Max or a Hax to be on. And so if I can be instrumental in helping create that, I think it's the point of expanding one's platform is to get more people on it.

The right people on it. Yeah, to work with your friends. Exactly. That's really it. It's just you want to work with your friends. That's really it. Because you start out and you're working with whoever you're assigned to by life. And after a while you're like, you know, I just want to be around people I enjoy. So yeah, that's the way to go.

Yeah, and I've been fortunate enough to be, to have an introduction to this side of the industry on something that's successful. Not that everything that I'll do will be at this level of success, quote unquote, but it's good to know what it feels like when things are working and what it looks like at every step of the way. Yeah.

How things can develop. So at least I have a good template. Yeah. Of what it will, of what it could be. Well, even if you get spoiled. Yeah. Being on something this good, you know, and then you'll do other stuff that isn't as good,

you still got to be spoiled. Yeah. Like that's a real honor. And that's, there's a lot of people that work forever and they're on mediocre shit all the time. We had, you know, We had a, our director for Hamilton in the rehearsals would say, you know, like, this is, this is the biggest and hardest show you'll ever do. And you will, everything else will be, seem a lot easier after you've done this.

And to a very real extent, he was very right. I'd come to see this coming. Yeah. Yeah. But as far as theater is concerned, I was like, yeah, that makes sense. There won't be, there aren't too many productions of that caliber.

And this is kind of similar in that I'm so grateful and so blessed to have had this opportunity and the lessons I have had from this, no matter what the next opportunity is, I'll be richer for it because of those lessons and because of these experiences. So I'm excited to see what it is. And in the meantime, I'm going to really enjoy

every bit of this ride because it's quite a ride. Of those lessons, what's the most important one? From hacks? From any of them? Any of them, okay. From your journey. From my journey, lessons from the journey. Lessons from the journey.

What's the Instagram caption? Of your journey. Galatians413. No, one of the most important lessons is, this might be a bit crass, but if it doesn't make your dick hard, don't fuck it. No. Like don't.

You'll either. You could talk yourself into it though. You could, but you could, but you'll be hurting yourself. You'll be not pleasing someone else. Like it's, it's, if it's not, how does it better one? If it's not sparking, if it's not sparking your passion, if it's not, if it's not something you can invest the fullness of joy into that it may not be something worth investing in. Not that you can't.

I think the dick hard bucket. Okay, great. I'm glad you got that. That really, I'm glad that helps. That'll look good on a investing in. Not that you can't. I think the dick hard bucket. Okay, great. I'm glad you got that. I mean, that really. I'm glad that helps. That'll look good on a bumper sticker, too. It'll look good on Instagram.

Yeah, yeah. T-shirt. Yeah, you're welcome, Metta. And a broider on a sampler above a mantle. Oh my goodness. But like with, just needle point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be so cute.

Or a tattoo with like little swallows, holding, like carrying a banner. Oh, specifically swallows. Yes, yes. It has to be. But that's an important lesson. And also something, this might be a little bit of a long story. I had this one director in Philly years ago who was really, he ended up being pretty cool.

I didn't want him to be, but he was really cool. And he would tell this vaudeville story about how there was this traveling couple who they would do this act and One night he asked for a quarter and I got a huge laugh and then the next night He asked for the quarter got a huge laugh and then they would go in different stops You'd find different ways of asking for the quarter and we get bigger laughs smaller laughs different laughs and after a while He would stop getting laughs about it and asked his wife, you, you know, why you used to get these huge laughs? Why it's not working? What's not working?

And she's like, yeah, you stop asking for the quarter. Just ask for the quarter. And that story, and then especially this hacks experience, has taught me don't push funny. Don't force it. It will never work. And at best, you'll get a lot of cheap laughs, which won't serve you in the long run. So just ask for the quarter. That's been a great, that's also a great Instagram.

You'll take a picture of yourself with $5,000 of cash and say, just ask for the quarter. Well, I mean, that is, you know, when I'm hearing that, I'm thinking, yeah, you gotta be in it. You gotta be inside it. Because, and I know this from knowing so many wonderful, hilarious, world-class comedic performers, all of them are at their best when they're not thinking about how they're coming off. You can't think about like, how am I being perceived?

It's just, you gotta be inside it and you got to be living it or else it's especially, I mean, I guess it must be true with drama too, but I don't know that. No, I think it is a drama as well. It might be even more so a drama because you can't, if I'm doing this scene with you and I'm thinking of how I might look or what it look like if I'm crying, like that's bullshit, like it's not gonna work. Just like if I'm doing the scene with you and it's a comedy and I'm not listening to you, but I'm just giving you funny face responses, like that's not funny, you just look touched.

You're syndicating, yeah. Yeah, and possibly medically challenged. That's so fun. Well, Carl Clemens Hopkins, thank you so much for coming in. It was really, it was a wonderful conversation. I really had a lovely time. I'm glad you're not nervous anymore. I mean, as far as you know, but there will, you know,

there will be too long of a handshake at the end of this. And then you might be nervous about that. Great, great, I can't wait. Thanks so much for listening. there will be a too long of a handshake at the end of this. And then you might be nervous about that. Great. Great. I can't wait. Thanks so much for listening. And I'll be back next week with more of the same, but probably not as good. What a way to end it.

The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rich Garcia. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Nick Leow, Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista with assistance from Maddy Ogden. Research by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe

to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts. And do you have a favorite question you always like to ask people? Let us know in the review section. Can't you tell my love's a-growing? Can't you feel it ain't a-showin'? Oh, you must be a-knowin'.

I've got a big, big love