The Three Questions with Andy Richter - David Sedaris

Episode Date: March 10, 2020

Writer David Sedaris chats with Andy Richter about becoming known as the “bin man,” dealing with obsessive-compulsive disorder, and collaborating with his sister Amy. Plus, David talks about where in the world he’d like to live. Check out David’s MasterClass at MasterClass.com/Sedaris.

Well, hello, everyone. Thank you for tuning into the three questions. And I am really, really excited about this one. I mean, the rest of them are duds. Pretty much everyone I've talked to from this point on has been a fucking snooze. So I am very excited to talk to David Sedaris is here. One of the funniest people on earth. Somebody I've known for a very long time,

but have not seen you because you've been gallivanting. I think you were that. Well, no, I guess we left, we left New York at around the same time. Yes. You came to Los Angeles and I moved to France and moved to England.

And then, yeah, we just haven't seen each other forever. Did you live in Tokyo for any, did you live in Tokyo for an extent? No, we went for three months. Yeah. But we didn't, that's not quite living. And are you coming back? I just talked to Hugh, your husband and partner. Boyfriend. Boyfriend.

Boyfriend. And he said you guys are coming back to New York sort of. Yeah, we got a place in New York. And so we're spending the winter there. Yeah. I'm just saying it's odd to go back after being gone for so long. Yeah. It just feels so different.

I was in a car the other day going to the airport. And I didn't – it was a really long time until I passed a store you can't find in a mall. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Saw anything that was original in any way. It's sad. It is sad, but it's still – we were just talking. My son's at school his freshman year in New York City, and he has been saying, it's not the same as when you and

mom lived here. It's all corporate now and it's all Wall Street. And I guess it's kind of true, but it's still better than most places. I mean, it's still, it's, you know, I go back and it still definitely has the vibrancy and the sort of stimulation level that's elevated that I like and that I get back into. When I've had to stay there for any amount of time, I feel like I could absolutely go back there. We used to live in Soho. And so when we went back, we got an apartment on the Upper East Side. And it's not a place I ever would have thought I wanted to be on the Upper East Side.

Why did you do that? A year ago. No, but I mean, why did you choose the Upper East Side, and it's not a place I ever would have thought I wanted to be on the Upper East Side. Why did you do that? A year ago. No, but I mean, why did you choose the Upper East Side? I just, because it's not hip in any way. Yeah, yeah. But it also feels like there are still, you know, there's lots of butcher shops and lots of, there's nothing you, like when we had to meet with a co-op board, they boasted. They said, you know, there's not a restaurant on 3rd Avenue from like 59th Street to 73rd.

He said, you're never going to hear anybody coming out of a restaurant at night. It's quiet. And I love that they boasted about that. And I actually really like it. Yeah. That's quiet. And I love that they boasted about that. And I actually really like it. Yeah. That's great. I mean, I'm excited to have you guys back here. I mean, do you have qualms about leaving your expat life behind?

No, we didn't quite leave it behind. I mean, we still live in England as well. I would like to, you know what it is, you're with somebody. I would like to move to Germany. Uh-huh. And so I go to Germany a lot for book tours and stuff. And so I say every night, I say I'd like to move to Germany, but I'm tired of filling out paperwork.

So I want the German government to just give me two passports. And I don't see why they... I guess that's exactly what white privilege is, isn't it? Like, just give me the passports. Come on. Yeah, I don't want to fill out any paper. Come on, Germany. It's honestly in their interest. But I don't know that Hugh would, I don't know.

He says he wouldn't do it. What is it you like about Germany? I like the people, as I get older, I like places where people follow the rules. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. But I think we tend to follow the rules that we believe in, right? Like in Tokyo, people follow the rules.

Oh, yeah. In Tokyo, you go to Tokyo and it's 2 o'clock in the morning and it's really cold and there are no cars coming and you want to cross the street, but Japanese people are going to wait until the light changes. Right. They're not going to do it. And then you think, well, this is just crazy. And so you do it and the looks that they give you are probably the looks you deserve. But here you are, you're deciding, okay, this rule I believe in and this one, not so much. But in Japan anyway, it's either you follow the rule or there's really not another option. You can just do it.

And there's something – as I get older, there's something about that that I like. But I still don't want to follow the ones that I think are just bullshit. Yeah, I think – well, honestly, I think that the – I mean, what occurs to me in you saying that is it's a question of density. There's so many people that I think that there's – that it probably – and I mean having been to Tokyo, it feels like you're on the edge of chaos at all times to the point where there are people – they have a job is shoving people into train cars to make sure that everyone fits. And everyone goes along with that. That's not – that's all just part of the social contract, not like rude. And I think, like, cause I, in my old neighborhood, there was a light that I would want to turn left on and it's a very, there's no one around. And this is the same thing from growing up in the country.

If there's a traffic light and nobody's around, you know, go through the red light. You look, you see, there's not, it's a, there's not it's first of all it was illinois and it was all flat so you could see for miles go ahead and blow through that but i think that because there's no one else around i think that so maybe it's maybe that's one reason why you know we've got a more space we don't we don't have people so much on top of us that we can but what to me what's kind of nice about Japan, though, is you're right. There are people at rush hour who shove you into the train, but they're wearing white gloves. Yes.

And that's nice. It is nice. It is nice. It's for everyone's benefit. Yeah. It makes them seem like butlers, like human butlers. All right. Well, you know, I don't know how much you know about this show, but it's called The Three Questions.

And it's just basically an excuse for me to ask people prying questions about their past and their future. And the first one is, where do you come from? And you come from North Carolina. I was born in Binghamton, New York, Which is a depressed area in western New York State. Yeah. And it's interesting. Were you there for a long time? I left at the end of second grade.

Okay. And we moved to Raleigh, North Carolina. And when we moved to Raleigh, everybody was southern. But then IBM, we transferred with IBM. and then Westinghouse moved people there too. And so they built entire neighborhoods for Yankees. Oh, wow. But it was a lot of, there was a lot of conflict between, I mean, I got beat up for being a Yankee. Yeah.

Which, you know, growing up, you don't even, that word doesn't even mean anything. Right. But when you win the war, you don't think about it anymore, right? But they were, so. You're not even that aware of the war, you know. No. Yeah, it's like, yeah. But, you know, I was just thinking a while ago, my dad is 96 now.

Wow. And when he was a boy, you could run into a Civil War veteran. Wow. You know. Yeah, yeah, of Wow. So I guess it wasn't – I mean, we seem really removed from it now. But in like 1963, we were closer to it. And so I grew up in Raleigh, but I go back to Raleigh and I don't feel anything. Nothing. And part of it is I never learned to drive a car, so I don't you know, I don't

go to the places where I used to live. I don't, you know, I just go to my dad's like home. That's the only place that I go to. But I go back to Binghamton, North Carolina and I feel completely... New York to me. Yeah, I mean Binghamton, New York, and I feel completely at home. Oh, really?

But nothing has changed there. Ah. And it has a lower population now than it did when I left. My dad's hometown, Cortland, there's a Denny's there now, but that's it. Yeah. But I go back and I feel, I don't know, I feel like I could live here. Or I feel like a, I don't know, a kinship with the people who I see on the street. Yeah, yeah.

It's interesting. I don't feel that in Raleigh, North Carolina. Did you feel a part of Raleigh when you were there? Or did it always kind of feel like you were, you know, you needed to go? For a little while I felt, you know, when i was in my early 20s yeah uh because i started doing things with the art museum you know they invited me to like do performance pieces and then i had you know some little shows and so i felt like part of a north carolina like artist scene but then you know how it is and then you're in the North

Carolina city and you think like in the you know Iowa has an artist scene and yeah Arkansas has an artist scene and there's really only one you know yeah right right and yeah right. I remember I worked in Auckland, New Zealand for a few months, and I realized very quickly, you know, like there was a radio station that I found that I really liked. It was kind of like an alternative radio station that played lots of different things. radio station that played lots of different things. And within a week, I was sitting at a red light and was outside the studio of the radio station. And I realized very quickly in Auckland, well, yeah, you're going to see everything Auckland has to offer within a couple of weeks. And I think it's the same thing with small art communities. You're going to know everybody pretty quickly, and then that's it. You know, the room for expansion in the North Carolina art community probably. Well, also, I went to Auckland, and I went to the art museum,

and it's like, oh, here's New Zealand's Gauguin. Here's New Zealand's Matisse. Here's New Zealand's, yeah. Can you do a New Zealand accent? Yeah, I can do a little bit. I'm going to do terrible. My favorite one was on, my favorite thing about the, because New Zealand versus Australia, it's even more kind of like this.

It's like a whiny kind of Australian, but like they say, fish and chops, fish and chops. And my favorite thing I heard was an ad on the radio for a mattress store, and it opened with, are you sleeping on a bed bed? A bed bed? Oh, you mean a bad bed? Yes, a bad bed. And it was just so funny to me. It was a bad bed.

I was there when Michael Jackson was arrested the first time, and the woman on the radio, she said, the question is, is Jack A. Fising prison? Jack A. Fising prison. Is Jack A.Ficing prison Is Jack O'Ficing prison Are you sleeping in a bad bed? That sounds great When were you there?

I was there in 2008 Really? Yeah, I was there It was a movie called Aliens in the Attic It was a movie called Aliens in the Attic. It was a kid's movie. And it fell right in the writer's strike. And I had everything that I had, every iron in the fire cooled to an ice cold.

And I was offered the part in this movie and i it was a thing like i'd read for it a couple months before i knew that i'd done well i could just i read for the director and i mean in my part is nothing i play like kind of the asshole uncle who's kind of like uh what time's dinner that's like the extent of the acting for the whole thing and i kept asking is this is this movie going to happen is this going to happen literally for a couple of months and then they finally were like well they wanted you to come back and i went back and these the first thing the casting people said to me was if you get this part you will have to leave and it was like thursday you'll have to leave wednesday for new like Thursday, you'll have to leave Wednesday for New Zealand and you may have to stay there for three months. And if you can't

commit to that, then there's no point in even going on. And I was like, I I've been waiting to hear, you know, fuck me. Sorry. You know, sorry about this. And they said that, uh, yeah, we want you to read again. Cause you just didn't nail it. You just didn't nail like, what time's dinner? So I booked it and they paid me just, I was kind of like, oh, maybe they won't pay me enough and I won't have to do this. Because my, you know, this is, my daughter was three, my son was eight. And I was going to have to go to, it's not easy. It's not Vancouver.

It's not like you can fly home on the weekends. It's 13 hours and ridiculously expensive to fly there and back. And, but they paid me just enough where I would be, it would have been, I would have been hurting my family if I hadn't taken the job, but it was during the writer's strike and the director and the producer were doing rewrites every day of the professionally written script that was fine. You know, it wasn't great, but it's like, you know, it's like the, the, the contractor isn't showing up. I guess I better put up a wall, you know, like, like the director and the producer were just making it worse and worse and worse every day with these, just this compulsion, like, well, in movies, you're always doing rewrites. So we better have some rewrites to

show. And like, just why don't you do with what the pro wrote? And it was, and I was there and it was really, it was, I loved it. And it was a very easy schedule for me because the gimmick of the movie is that there were these aliens that had mind control that only worked on adults, so the kids had to fight the aliens and protect us from the aliens, and all the aliens are about 18 feet tall, or 18 inches tall, little, like, you know, kind of gremlin-y looking things so all of the special effects were the kids like they're like there were literally scenes where you'd open a door and go like what's going on in here kids and they'd be like nothing and then you shut the door and then there'd be all the special effects and the stunts and everything so I had tons of time off and worked with, it was me and Tim Meadows. And one of our first days there, we asked an assistant director, hey, could you get us some weed for this? And she's like, oh, yeah, no problem, mate. The next day she brought in a coffee can full of weed for us to split.

And I was like, oh, there's no way we're going to get through. I'm going to get through this. And I was like, oh, there's no way we're going to get through. I'm going to get through this. And I got through it just fine. But yeah, so it was just really tough because I left for six weeks with an eight-year-old and a three-year-old at home. And it was not – if I had to do it over again, I would insist that everybody come with me because it was just too much of a strain. But I really did love it there and I'd love to go back. Getting a work visa for New Zealand, oh, my God. Yeah.

And you have to go in person. Yeah. Like, you can't pay somebody to go and do it for you. Yeah. And you have to be at the embassy all day. Yeah, yeah. It's just such a – and so I just got back from Australia. Normally I would go to New Zealand as well and do shows,

but I didn't because it was too much of a pain in the ass. Too much of a pain in the ass. Yeah, and if I remember correctly, too, the taxes are really punitive. Yeah, you leave with nothing. Yeah, they're really punitive. So it was even though, I mean, you know, it was, all in all, it was, you know, and actually the movie turned out to be mean, you know, it was, all in all, it was, you know, and actually the movie turned out to be okay, you know, it's a pretty fun movie.

Have you been to Tasmania? I never have, no. I've never been to Australia. Oh. Yeah. Because there's a man in Tasmania who opened his own museum, and in the gift shop of the museum, he sells soap that is molded from a vagina.

the museum, he sells soap that is molded from a vagina. And it looks, it's like a, it's not like a square. It's more like a rectangle shape. But the top of it is a vagina. Yeah. And it's soap. And it's worth going just to buy this. Does he say whose vagina it is? No.

And it comes in a really beautiful box. It's just a fantastic gift for anybody. Because you can use it. What's the theme of the museum? Is it a vagina museum? No, no. It's just his... To tell you the truth, I didn't even go. I had interviews and stuff, so I couldn't go.

So the producer went, and she bought this soap, and she gave it to me. And I was like, damn it. I wish she'd given me like 20 bars of it. Right. That's a wonderful, you know, Christmas gift, just housewarming. But I got to say, the service, you know, like when you went to a restaurant there, just nobody seemed to care. Yeah, yeah. I mean, gee, just be sitting there forever.

When I'm on my deathbed, what I'm going to want back is all the time that I spent saying, can I have the check? And then waiting for the check. I mean, between France and England and because that's something to be said

for tipping. Yeah. You know, they want you out of there, they something to be said for tipping. Yeah. You know, they want you out of there. They want to turn the table over. But in a place where people don't tip, it's like, Jesus Christ. Yeah, I know. And they say, you need to live. Yeah.

I'd like to be living. Yes, yes. But instead, I'm sitting here waiting for the check. Yeah. No, I'm terrible at that. I'm also – I'm terrible about being like having my plate clean and then look up and everyone's like on their third bite you know just like uh and it's just from growing up in a house with an older brother who you had

to eat you know i mean it's basic compulsiveness too but there was also like growing up in a family where you if you ordered pizza you you better eat the pizza fast or you're not going to get enough pizza because it will just right be devoured by everyone else um but now it's really not it's not a good look on a 53 year old man to have a clean plate and everyone else kind of enjoying their comp you know, the conversation and then I'm ready for the check. Let's go. Let's get out of here. When I do book signing, you know, I like signing books.

Yeah. But a lot of times then people are like, can we get a picture? And the problem is that then the camera doesn't work right or something and I just would rather just talk to somebody than get the picture. And so, and I don't like the way people take pictures now. Like, this must happen to you. You know, maybe you'll be somewhere and people just come up and take your picture like you're a statue. You know, they don't ask you if they can do it.

And that just seems so rude to me. It does. So they put up a sign that says no photos, right, when I'm signing books. But I eat dinner while I'm signing books because otherwise I'm not going to get back to the hotel until midnight or 1 o'clock in the morning and then it'll be 2 o'clock by the time the food comes. And a woman said to me not long ago, she said, after standing in this line and watching you eat for 10 minutes, I can understand why you have that no photo sign. Nice. Because I eat like that too, like it's a contest. Right, right.

And I never let any food leave the table. You know, if somebody, I say, are you finished with that? And I'll eat, you know, I'll finish what's on everybody else's plates. But it was weird. Last night we went out to dinner and we just made that mistake and we got too many you know, I'll finish what's on everybody else's plates. But it was weird. Last night we went out to dinner, and we just made that mistake, and we got too many appetizers, and a lot of the appetizers involved bread. And then we also had a pasta course and a meat course. And it was the first time since I went to Croatia in 2000

that I've let food leave the table. I was done in. Just couldn't do it. Yeah. I have found too I have been broken of my Midwestern-ness which I wish I could remember who said it but

somebody in I remember reading a story once where somebody pleaded with their father who was living in Michigan or something. Like, overeating is not an act of heroism, which in the Midwest, it does tend to be that way. You know, like, you got, you know, there's so many, like, look at my boy eat. You know, like, look at my boy who I'm, you know, I'm cursing with a lifetime of obesity. Look at him go.

You know, he's eaten three cheeseburgers. And like as if that's a merit. And I now go back and I cannot believe the Flintstones-sized portions that they still will serve you. I mean, there's, you know, there's modernized places. But still, the old stalwart Chicago kind of steakhouse places, it's enough food for three people. And, you know, I just, the notion of eating a rack of ribs, like a full rack of ribs, like now, no problem. And I mean, you know, like my brother would eat a rack and a half of ribs. Beyond five, I feel like, oh my God, I'm done. You know, it's just,

but used to power through like, you know, literally one side of a pig, just go right through it. See, we had six kids. And so I always felt like that too. Like you got to get in there and you got to get seconds. Like there's not going to be enough. Yeah. Right? And so I still, I don't know, I just grew up eating like that. Yeah. And I can't stop. And so I can't seem to eat less. Yeah. Right?

So I just have to exercise more and more. Yeah, yeah. And like I'll exercise sometimes like for eight, ten hours a day. And I say exercise, but like walking. Yeah. Like I'll go to the gym, but then I'll walk for eight hours a day. Just because the furnaces, you know, I got to – Yeah.

Just to try to burn. Do you do anything while you're walking? I mean, are you just walking around town in circles? I listen to podcasts and I listen to books and I listen to – and I pick up trash. Yeah. You know, and I – I mean, we're in the country most of the time. Yeah. So it's pleasant to be walking in the country.

Do your neighbors recognize your trash picking up? I mean, I've read about it and you've written about it. I get stopped a lot. Yeah. Because I have a show on the BBC. Uh-huh. And so people know me from that. Yeah.

So they'll say, oh, are you the bloke? Are you the chap? Are you the person who, you know, who picks up trash? And it's nice, you know. Yeah. I mean, it's nothing. Do they hand you like a McDonald's bag of garbage out of their car? No, but this is. It's nice, you know. Yeah. I mean, it's nothing. Do they hand you like a McDonald's bag of garbage out of their car? No, but this is.

It's your department. This woman, she had her son get out of the car because it was a plastic bottle that oil had come in. And she had him get out of the car and kick it to the curb because she didn't want to run over it. And then she saw me and she said, him, give it to him. Give it to the bin man. And so the kid gave it to me and I just looked at him with dead eyes. My eyes were just dead because that's, her solution was just to kick it. Yeah.

You know, that's her street. Right. She doesn't care that it's on her street. You know how people are. Yeah. It ends at their yard, you know. And you're the equivalent to a curb. Yeah. You know, like you're out of the way, but actually even a little better than out of the are. Yeah. It ends at their yard, you know? And you're the equivalent to a curb. Yeah.

You know, like you're out of the way, but actually even a little better than out of the way. Yeah, because, yeah, he's into that, picking up garbage. Somebody drove by one time and said, bin man. And he stuck his head out the window, and his face was like a fist, and it was red, and he was just enraged. Bin man. Like, they're calling someone a garbage man. I didn't understand that. Oh, my God.

It's like heart surgeon. Yeah. Yeah. Orthodontist. Can't you tell my love are growing well now you have written fairly extensively about you had compulsive tendencies when you were a kid yeah and so was the eating part of that and do you want to talk about that a little bit for anyone that doesn't know about oh yeah i mean as a Oh, yeah. I mean, there were six kids in my family, and so no one got – you couldn't afford to give somebody a lot of attention. Yeah, yeah.

So I didn't – my parents never took me to a doctor or anything like that. But, yeah, I mean, it was obsessive-compulsive disorder. And I think as I got older, maybe I learned how to make it, to use it for the good, right? So like if I have to do everything at exactly the same time every day, right? Instead of doing something like destructive, what if I were to sit down and write every time? And, you know, so that's what I've done ever since I started writing, you know, when I was 20.

So that's what I've done ever since I started writing when I was 20. But like when we moved to England, then the trash thing became that. You know, it morphs and it changes and you can't see what's ahead of you. Like maybe something will replace the garbage collecting at some point. But as it is now, I can't pass by a piece of garbage. I can't pass it by. I can't walk by it. But again, but to clean it up, you know, it makes the world a better place.

You know, it's not, it could be worse. Right. It's not, I mean, when you were a kid, you did compulsive, like. Activities. Repetitive activities or licking things. Well, it got to be, it got to be really oppressive. You know, when you had to, you know, you'd go to bed and you'd say, oh, no, I have to go touch the light bulb in the refrigerator. And you'd go up and you'd go upstairs and you'd touch the light bulb.

And it's like, I didn't touch it in the right place. So you have to go back upstairs in the right place and then it's like okay i have to you know go to the uh go to the bathroom and i have to i have to touch my tongue you know to the you know to the handle of the toilet and i have to and then i know i didn't do it right then i have to go back so i was just exhausted yeah you know from all that i guess now you just give a kid some medication but and i'm not upset you know mean, I'm not sad about it. But like when you've got six kids, you can't. Are people aware that this is happening?

Like are your siblings or? Oh, yeah. My siblings were really aware. And then teachers would say things to my mother. And you know how it is. Like I saw a kid in the airport and he was violently shaking his head, like, just violently jerking his head. And that's something I did for a long time. And his father said, cut it out.

And I just wanted, I normally would never talk like this, you know. But I just wanted to go to that kid and just, and this sounds so queer, to hug that child or something. Or just say, like, oh, man, I was exactly where you were. And, you know, it really is going to get better. It's just, you know, it's just really bad like right now. But I find it exciting when I see somebody who has Tourette's or who has some kind of a tick. And I get to interact with them.

It's almost like seeing a celebrity to me when I see them in action. Because of a kinship that you feel? Or you're just witnessing something and I just want to say something beautiful. Something untamed. You know, like maybe it's like seeing a wild horse or something like that. There's just something beautiful and untamed. You know, like maybe it's like seeing a wild horse or something like that.

There's just something beautiful and untamed about it. Yeah. I mean, there are extremes. Yes. You know, I saw somebody in London, and I think their son was autistic on some level, you know, where the child was, you know, like eight years old and refusing to be moved

and screaming, and I don't know how you deal with that. You know, I mean, as a parent, that's, and you've got people watching and you've got, that's got to be hard. But I was never, I was never that child. Yeah, yeah. And it was, it was, you know, like it could just be exhausting. Yeah. That was the, and then, you know, you always think that other people don't notice what it is that you're doing.

And like I can't perform if there's a plexiglass podium because then I have to touch my dick. I have to touch my dick like constantly. And not cup it, but, you know, like kind of just tap it. Yeah. And then sometimes I go through the pocket and then sometimes, and I think, oh, no one can tell. And Amy, my sister Amy was in the audience. She said, what was going on with your dick?

And so now if it's a plexiglass podium, they cover it with a cloth and tape the cloth down. Well, now, if it was mahogany, would you be touching your dick? Nope, not a bit. Really? Wow. Only if it can be seen. Yeah, yeah. Then it's just something I have to, absolutely have to do.

Sure, right. I mean, you're putting on a show. I mean, come on. They're going to give you like a little stage to perform on, you know? A little booth. stage to perform on, you know, a little booth. Now, do you, I don't know what, do they have any idea, like, does science know what causes OCD or is it just, it's just a sort of a anomaly that just happens to happen? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. And, and do you feel now, like with the, with the picking up of trash, does it bother you that it still is there?

Is it something where you're picking up trash and then all of a sudden you realize, oh, no, it's this again? You might start, like you said, you don't know what the new behavior might be, but you start the behavior and then all of a sudden you realize, oh, this is serving that purpose. Yeah. But like we recently hired a housekeeper. We've never had one before. But the house that we live in in England is 450 years old. And it's a farmhouse and it's got beams in every room. And it's a full-time job just keeping up with the spiders and the webs.

I mean, it's just, you can't turn your back. And I mentioned the dust, too. Yeah. But we hired a housekeeper, and she has OCD. And she should charge double because that's exactly what you want. Right. And so sometimes our council, our local government, will send people out to clean the roadside.

They're worthless. Because if I see like a can deep into a briar thicket, I'm not leaving that can there. I can't. Or I wouldn't have done my job. Right. So I have to get everything. Everything. So that have to get everything. Everything.

So that's who you want. Mm-hmm. Do you have that same level of compulsive perfection in your writing? I mean, I don't think I've ever published anything that I thought wasn't. I mean, I always believe in it when I turn it in like I would never have said eh that's good enough right but I mean the process

isn't one where you're like oh my god this isn't good enough and it's tortured you to get it to the place where it's right no I'm not no

like I have a reading in Vancouver the night after tomorrow, and I have three new things to read. And I don't know that I'll read all three that night, but I'll read something and then I go back to the room and rewrite it and then try it out and then rewrite it and try it out and rewrite it. It's interesting.

You learn so much that way. And then, of course, there are things that work on the page that wouldn't necessarily work out loud. And things, you know, the audience, like I had this, somebody gave me, this woman gave me a $50 bill. She said I was at a church event and we had a speaker and he gave everyone a $50 bill and told us we had to give it out to a poor person by 3.15. She said

it corresponds with the Bible verse. You know, John 3.15 or 2.15, something like that. And she said, I'm not going to be around any poor people. Would you do this for me? And I couldn't think of anything I'd rather do, right? But so I...

How long ago was this? Last summer. Oh, okay. And so then I talked about it at a book signing, and then somebody came and gave me $100 to give away. And then somebody gave me another, you know, the next night, someone said, oh, here's another $50 to give away. And so I wrote an essay about it.

But I noticed when I read the essay that if I said I saw a black woman working at McDonald's, the audience would like tense up because I said black. Yes. And it wouldn't have mattered if I said I saw an African-American woman. The audience gets so freaked out by any mention of race. Yes. Whatsoever. Yes. And it seemed pertinent to me, right?

Because sometimes if you're giving money away, I don't know, it's just pertinent. And it adds another level of weirdness to it, right? But then the audience got so tense over the whole thing that I had to just get rid of all that. And then it worked fine. Yeah, yeah. And I was reading something in England a couple years ago, and my sister Lisa was exposed to, when she was 12 years old,

my dad was driving her to this church event. And this black man by the side of the road exposed themselves exposed himself to them and my dad turned the car around so they could see it again and I read that and this woman in England said

why did you say he was black and I said because it was 1967 in the American South and I'm not saying that was 1967 in the American South, and I'm not saying that it's fair, but for a black man to expose himself to a white girl would have gotten him into more trouble than doing it. And it makes my father's reaction all the more surprising. Yes.

And she said, well, when you say someone's black, are we supposed to assume everyone else is white? And I said, yeah, it's the writer's world. You know, if it's a black author and he says this white lady came to the door, that's his world that he's created. It's not racist to point out somebody's race when it's pertinent. But the audience gets so, and it's, you know, it's a 98% white audience and they freak out. They just, and there's certain things and I always feel like I insist that I can write about, like I insist there's a way to write about this.

But that's just, that's where I'm just having to throw in the towel. You know, especially because everything's about race now. But if you try to have an honest conversation about it, then it all goes to hell. Yeah. So it's just like fake honest talk about it. Right. And everybody speaking with this fake, reading their script.

Yeah. You know, that's been approved of. Yeah. And it's just a really hard thing to talk about. It's, well, I mean, for me, and, you know, from doing a comedy show four days a week, I mean, we definitely encounter, there are subjects such as race,

frequently different, you know, religion, or sexual preference, or gender identity where that everyone is like just don't even mention it please because it's uncomfortable and if we laugh at it we don't know if we're being bad right like if you we trust you to craft a joke and we trust you to, we know your work. We know that you're not a hateful bigot. So we do trust you. But if you write a joke about that and I am not aware that I'm not supposed to laugh at it, you will fuck me over because then I will be doing something bigoted and I just really was just here to enjoy your comedy. And I do understand it.

I do understand it because there's tons of nuance. And it is situational. And there is like this woman saying to you that about that, you know, there's, you know, because there is a difference i was i was eavesdropping on a conversation between uh somebody somebody it was at it was at warner brothers and i was with an african-american actor uh an asian actor and me talking to somebody that worked there who was talking about, we were talking about credit cards being fraudulently used. And this guy was talking about it. He goes, oh, it happened to us a couple of times. One time it was this black lady down in South Central. She apparently was getting all these credit cards and she was cheating people.

And then another time it's this Chinese lady out somewhere, you know, like, and I'm standing there with an African-American and an Asian person. And I said to the, when he was done telling this story, I was like, man, it was so important to know what, what color everybody was and what national, you know, what, what race everybody was. And he just know what what race everybody was and he just laughed and kind of shrugged it off but it was in that situation it was like yeah buddy come on look like and this was definitely insensitive this was not like this he was not the guy telling the story

was not trying to you know battle social norms and break down barriers. He was just a kind of a racist. And it is situational. It is like, yeah, in the story you're telling about the exposure on the side of the road, yeah, the person's race is definitely a big aspect of what happened. Well, it was a white woman who said, why did you have to say that? And so she was so up. And anyway, I thought my explanation was,

because it's true, it's the writer's world. And that's always been the case. Yeah. And it's not. It's hard. It is hard, though, because we're trying to make a better world. We're trying to deal with race, and it's so complicated, and there's so many pitfalls. Well, I wrote once an essay.

My parents were landlords, and they had these tenants. And my father – these tenants sued my parents, right? And there was this really kind of aggressive guy that my dad rented to, right? And there was this really kind of aggressive guy that my dad rented to, right? And it was a story about seeing my father, a guy threatening to hit my father. And so I thought there was going to be a fist fight between my dad and this guy.

And some people walked out and they said to the person in the lobby, the people in the theater are laughing at all the wrong parts. And it's like, who, but it's what you're talking about. People thinking, if I laugh, like, because then they're thrown into conflict because it's not a white character, right? So if they don't like this person, does that make them a racist? Yeah, yeah. white character, right? So if they don't like this person, does that make them a racist? Yeah, yeah. But if you don't like a bad person, that doesn't make you a racist.

This is a bad person. Yeah, yeah. But again, what you said, you can feel the audience. You can feel that turmoil. And also what you said, which is really true, is what that really translates to is we came here to have a good time and don't make us feel that. Yeah, right, right. Don't test me. Yeah. Don't test my wokeness. I mean, I'm loathe to be one of those comedians that's like, why can't I say whatever I want all the time?

that are just really kind of pissed off that they're, because they look at their white comedy heroes of a, of a, you know, of the, of a golden age of white maleness. And they think those guys could get away with whatever they wanted, which included like really unsavory, horrible things, you know, throughout their life. And they're kind of like, how come i don't get to do that and and it's just to me it's the most boring brand of comedy that's out there right now it's just white guy being like ah i miss the boat on white guys getting to do whatever the fuck they wanted but do you like i feel like i don't know anything about comedy like i don't know anything about comedians like if you named 10 stand-up comedians who are popular right now, I don't think I would know any of them.

Like I just don't know that much about that world. Every now and then I'll go on YouTube and I'll see, you know, somebody in front of a brick wall and I'll listen for a few minutes. And I think that must be a really, really hard life. It's not my thing, you know. It never was. It was, I mean, like with, you know, Amy, your sister, I think she's in the same boat. And she's been on this show.

And the key for everything for her was collaboration. And that's the same with me. I say basically because I tried to do stand-up that's the same with me. I say basically, because I tried to do stand-up because it's available to me. And in many people in my similar situation, guys of my age, character actors, comedy people, improv people, one of the ways they can make money is like, oh, just do a stand-up act. I've been in some movies and they can put my name on a marquee and I can go do 45 minutes in Omaha and make some money and bring it back home. So I always kind of had that in mind. And then I just realized I don't like this.

I don't like being up here alone. I don't like saying the same thing over and over. Like that's sort of the goal is to really just keep saying the same thing over and over with like minor adjustments until like now I've really got it to where I can really truly say the same thing over and over. And that's just, there's no interest to me in that. I liked how you said I can make some money and bring it home. Yeah, yeah. Like I don't have to spend it all in Omaha. I can bring it home. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't have to spend it all in Omaha. I can bring it home.

Well, I mean, the significance is like, yeah, I'm not going to Omaha for the sights. I'm going there to stand in a dark room and, you know, got to make a living. I couldn't do it, you know, stand up. I couldn't. But it's interesting. Well, why do you think there's a difference between what you do and stand up? A piece of paper makes all the difference.

Oh, really? Okay. All the difference in the world. Often I invite people to open for me, right? And usually it's a writer. You know, I've been in situations where I'm signing books and I meet somebody and we get to talking and it turns out that they write. And maybe I decide to get an idea and I think, gosh, I bet this person's a good writer. And I'll say, why don't you open for me? You know, I'm going to be, you know, a couple hundred miles from here three weeks from now or I'm coming back in six months. And why don't you write something that's like seven minutes long? And it's nice to give people a chance. coming back in six months, and why don't you write something that's like seven minutes long?

And it's nice to give people a chance. And the audience, you know, if I explain to the audience that it's a young person, you know, you've got to, you have to be generous towards a young person who's trying out. And a couple of times I've made like a big mistake and someone's going on too long or someone's, you know. But usually it works out fine uh but i mean i invited a stand-up comedian to to open for me i was at ucla and i met him in canada and he was with his mom and i really liked him and i said why don't you and it was just interesting because he was like how's everybody doing tonight you know and he had the microphone

it was prowling the stage. And I'm just not used to that energy on stage. I don't have that. I would never come out and ask the audience a question. I can't hear you. What is this side of the room thing? Are you ready to listen? Yeah.

And every now and then I'll be introduced by somebody who does that. And I just want to hose down the stage before I go out. I just don't like that energy in the room. Yeah. I have always, when given a choice, when I have to go out on stage, I always ask for no introduction. I like to just, because A, I don't want to hear what somebody that I don't know has to say about me not that i'll be offended but if if it's because if it's too laudatory it makes my skin crawl

so i'd rather just step you know on the conan show every day when i come out to do the start the announcement where you know it's like it like the last 30 seconds before the show starts. And we had a warm-up guy that used to – he started – when we had a new warm-up guy, he – the first day, like, here he comes. And I just – I said, no, no, no. Do not – do not say my name. Just let me – just let me step out on the stage. I don't need that. Sometimes if I'm – I only sign books before a show and after because I like to see who's in the audience. This is a good way to do it.

In the lobby usually? Yeah. Yeah. But if I meet a teenager, I'll say, if I pay you $20, will you introduce me? Oh, wow. And then I say, don't tell your parents because then their parents are sitting down and they're like, you know, where's Chastity? And then Chastity walks on stage. And sometimes they're backstage and they're talking like, you know, they're so confident and they're in the drama club at school.

And then it's time to go on and they're just air and pain. And then we say, you can talk about, you know, if you have anything you want to promote, go ahead and do it. But all you have to do is say, here's David Sedaris. Like, that's all you have to say. Yeah. Anything else you want to do, you are free to do. Right. And it's just, it's nice to have that energy backstage.

Somebody who hasn't been in front of 2,000 people and they're going to go out there. And I guess what you're always hoping for is the moment that they put the electricity into Frankenstein, that it's going to be an awakening in a young person. They're like, must have this attention every day. But it's fun to... But usually NPR people, they get out there and they say, I'm not David Sedaris. And I'm like, ugh. And I didn't even want to hear what comes after that. It's good, though, that you're paying teens to do a task that they should keep secret

from their parents. Yeah. That seems like a good pattern to set. Well, you know, I'm so honored that a teenager would come to hear, and I'm 63 now, you know, would come to hear a man their grandfather's age read out loud. I'm just so honored that they came. Yeah. That I, I don't know, I just, and it's the way I always bring gifts for teenagers, too. And it's not much, but it's something.

I've never let a teenager leave the table without a gift. That's really nice. Now, is that – why do you think that – like why do you think that is? Do you feel – are you giving your teen self a gift? Are you – or is it just – No. It's just because – and is it something that started when you started to get older no it started pretty much when i started going on tour yeah and i think because you could

give them a bottle of shampoo from your hotel and they don't stay in hotels so to them it's something where to you it doesn't really you know it's no. Yeah. And then I have a lot of just things in my life. And then sometimes somebody will give me something, you know, in a reading. And, you know, maybe it's, I don't know, maybe it's a snow globe or something. And I don't. You're going to cut that around. I don't mean to sound like I, but I have a Picasso painting. Like, I don't really want a snow globe.

So fuck your snow globe. But I'll write them a thank you letter and say, thank you so much. Yeah. You know, but then I'll give the snow globe to a teenager. Yeah. You know, not that night. I'll take it to another city. Right.

And give it to a teenager. Well, and I should hope, too, that someone would appreciate the fact that the joy is being passed on as opposed to, you know, you just having a house full of junk that people have given you. Do people give you a lot of drawings of yourself that they've done of you? Not for a long time. I mean, they do do that and they sort of fan art uh that i have a you know it's a you have a complicated relationship i think anybody in the public eye does with with people's you know idea of them

and it usually it's it was i worked on a movie once where i was still doing the conan show and i had to leave and so so they, there was, they were shooting me out as a wedding scene and they wanted to get a body double for me because they were just going to shoot me from behind. So the first day they brought basically like football players and they had Polaroids of football. They took Polaroids of them with me and next to me. And I was like, Oh, this is nice. And then they came back and like, those guys weren't so great. And then they just brought fat guys. You know, the next day it was like, eh, the football players aren't exactly right.

Let's just get some guys that, you know, could have been football players if they put down the fork. And that, to me, that's the difference in the fan art. It's either kind of like, wow, I look good there. Or like, oh my God, do I really have eight chins? It's always so depressing. Yeah. Always so depressing. But people put a lot of work into it.

And then you're like, oh, my God, thank you so much. Oh, no. Is that what I look like? I know. I know. Are you weirded out by the fact that somebody thinks that much about you to sit down and paint a painting of you? Yeah.

Yeah? I mean, I don't. You know, I'm flattered. I'm flattered. You know, I'm not flattered by the picture, but I'm flattered, you know, that they would put the time into it. Yeah. Now, is there anybody that you would paint a picture of,

like that you're a fan of? I wouldn't. Yeah, but there are plenty of people I'm a fan of, but I wouldn't paint a picture of them. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know that I don't know what I would say to that person. Yeah. You know?

Because I feel autograph culture. Like, I just feel like there's nobody. The only, whenever I've asked for an autograph, it's been for somebody else. It's been like a baseball player for my brother or something like that. But I don't. And I think, well, am I just, you know you know i'm just sort of i've been around so many famous people because of the nature of my job that i don't care but i really do feel like no separate from that if i had if i had just you know stayed in chicago and wrote ad copy i don't think

that i would want you know i don't think that i would have, you know, I don't think that I would have, having met David Bowie, like I would have said, hey, David Bowie, will you sign something for me? Because I don't understand what that means. I don't understand, like when people say, can we get a picture together? I don't understand that. I don't understand what it's supposed to mean. And so I don't, yeah, I just don't understand that. I don't understand what it's supposed to mean. And so I don't, yeah, I just don't get it. So what you put it somewhere like on Instagram or something and it's supposed to, I don't know what it means.

Yeah. Yeah, well, I guess like that I can understand more because that is like a visual representation of the memory, like of actually meeting someone. But just a name or something, it's weird to me. And I don't know. Well, usually if somebody comes up, and this doesn't happen to me much at all, but someone will say, can we get a picture?

I'll say, oh, let me draw you a picture. We'll just sit here and talk while I draw a picture of you and I talking together. Yeah. I mean, I'd prefer that. Oh, I would prefer that. Picture. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, Conan does doodles of himself for people.

But, you know, it's like something he's done well. It predated him being on television and drawing little doodles of himself in various – it's, you know, in many ways he's exactly the same person he's always been. Now, when you – at what point in your youth do you realize you want to do something creative for a living? When I was in junior high school, I started by tracing cartoons out of National Lampoon. And then I tried to draw those pictures. I've never been terribly talented that way, like drawing and painting. But I wanted to be a visual artist. talented that way, like drawing and painting.

But I wanted to be a visual artist. And that's what I, and then I started writing when I was 20. And then the writing gradually took over. Took over. Yeah. And you went to the Art Institute of Chicago, correct? Now, and you went there intending to be a visual artist of some kind. Yeah, I went for painting and sculpture.

Yeah. But then, you know, and it was a good place for me to go because I looked around and I saw some people and I thought, I thought, they're always going to be better than me. They have something I don't. And the thing that they have is going to mean that they're going to change and they're going to grow. And I'm never going to. You know, because I tended to make the same thing over and over and over again. But, and I, I don't know, I guess I just, you know, I realized I would go to a museum and I would think, I'd like to own that.

I'd like to own that. And that's where my interest ended. I just wanted to own it. I'd like to own that. And that's where my interest ended. I just wanted to own it. And I would read something and I would just be so moved by what I read. And it wasn't like I wanted to write that.

I just wanted to read it again and I just wanted to soak it in it. And I just wanted to – I just lived for that. I read everything I could get my hands on. From an early age? No, no, no. I started when I was 20. When I started to write, I started to read. And eventually that kind of took over and became all I cared about.

Yeah. Did you drop out of school when you started writing or did you continue and get your degree? I dropped out of school. I mean, I went to college for a year when I was 18 and then I went to Kent State for half a year and then I dropped out. And then I went back. When I went to the Art Institute,

I went when I was 27. I see. Oh, wow. But at that point, were you studying visual art? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At 27, even though you'd been writing? Oh, wow.

And did, was there a reason? I mean, it's what got me into school. Yeah. And I still thought I would do it, but then I started taking, I took like, I think I took like three writing classes. And they have those at the Art Institute. Yeah, and now you can major in it. Oh, wow. But at the time, you had to take a certain number of English classes.

And so creative writing was a class. And the teachers that they had there, like Jim McManus and Susan Wheeler was there when I first moved there. But they had so much to give, and they didn't really have anybody who necessarily wanted it. And I did. And so it was like having my own private teachers. It was perfect. Wow. Because they, like I said, they had so much to give.

And let's say at iWriters Workshop, you've got a lot to give, and you've got 60 people who are like fighting each other to get it. And here you've got a classroom, and you've got 10 people with are like fighting each other to get it. And here you've got a classroom and you've got 10 people with their heads down on their desk and you've got one person who's like, you know, he's going to read everything that you mention in class and who is going to, you know, not, you know, if you have to have a short story due in, you know, like three weeks, I'm going to start on it now. Wow. Whereas the person next to me, you know, not his fault. I'm going to start on it now. Wow.

Whereas the person next to me, you know, not his fault. He's going to start out the night before it's due. But maybe he's a really good painter or maybe he's got other stuff, you know, that he cares about. So between 20 and 27, were you back in North Carolina? I was in Raleigh, North Carolina. And what were you doing and what was that time like? It was a, you know, I don't think you ever went through this,

but it's a time where you, you know, your friends and you and you're really creative and you think you're like super creative and you're the avant-garde in Raleigh, North Carolina. And one by one they leave and they go to New York, or they go to Pittsburgh, or they go, and you're the only one left. And they come home, and then you're too busy to see them, you know, because you're just so hurt and so kind of envious that they left and you didn't, and your life is just passing you by.

And, yeah, so from 20 to 27, that's going to be like the time on my deathbed when I want the time back that I was spent waiting for the check. When I look at my life and I look at time wasted, that's a period of time. But I don't know where else I would have been. Like if I'd moved to Chicago then, I wouldn't. I don't know that I would have, maybe that's where I needed to be. But there's a lot of wasted time. I think a lot of, I mean, I don't know whether it's just a rationale for mistakes made, but the notion of things happening when they're supposed to happen, I believe in.

in i believe in there being a window that opens up and you either you know i remember uh you know like the time for me to move to new york the window opened and i'm like i gotta go yeah that window just opened i gotta go and if i had not then i would probably still be in chicago or i still would have been in north carolina but when that window opens, you got to go. Yeah. Because, gosh, I know so many people that waited like decades after the window opened. And then it's like, then it's just too late. Well, and you'd had those seven years, too, to realize the consequences of that, you know, of not accepting. Yeah.

You know, yeah. Did you have a job then? Did you work or? Oh, gosh. I would find little, you know, jobs on construction sites or I'm the world's worst at applying for a job. Oh, yeah. My mother would say, do you think someone's going to knock on your door and offer you a job? And it's like, that's what I'm hoping.

Oh, and it was that thing where your rent's due in two days and you have $25 and you know you're going to spend 10 of it on meth that night. And you just feel like such a loser. Oh, yeah. I remember foregoing food because I knew I was going to need cigarettes and liquor. Yeah. You know, it's like, eh, priorities.

Oh, yeah. But in a way, like, I don't know, that never left me. That time never left me. And I don't ever want it to. In what sense? In the sense that I feel like I feel so grateful to be where I am now because I didn't really, you know, I wasn't terribly promising, you know, for a long time.

And, I mean, I wish that I would have the life that I had now, but really, and I worked. You know, I mean, I wrote every day, you know, or I did, you know. But I read a lot of biographies when I was young, and especially biographies of artists. They all hung out with people who all turned out to be famous, right? And then I would look around me when I was 22 and I would think, how many of my friends are going to, you know what I mean?

Like, come on, people. Like it was partly their responsibility too. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't realize that that just came later. Yeah. Right? That came later, like when I was in Chicago, and it was a lot of people that Amy was with at Second City.

And when you moved to New York, there were people that I met later who would go on too. Right. But no, I mean, Cocteau, it might have happened when he was like 22. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, people are on different timers. Yeah, exactly. So you go to Chicago to school, and how long are you in Chicago?

I moved in 1984, and I left in 1990. Okay. And Amy just kind of followed you there, correct? Yeah, Amy came. I went to Second City to see a show, and I called Amy, and I said, there's a place up here that I think would be perfect for you. Because Amy was just the funniest waitress in Raleigh. Yeah.

You know? And it's interesting. I don't think she would have stayed the funniest. You know, when you're from a big family, people often say, like, how is it, Waino, what did you and Amy do different? And we were just ambitious in a way. My brother Paul could have done, in comedy, could have done whatever he wanted to.

You know, anything, whatever he wanted to. But he's perfectly happy to live in Raleigh, North Carolina. He never, we brought him up to Chicago and he stayed for two weeks and then went home. Yeah. And it wasn't like Chicago kicked his ass. He just wanted to be in Raleigh, North Carolina. And it's really hard for me to believe that if I hadn't said to Amy,

this is place, Second City, you've got to come up here, Amy would not have stayed, would not still be a waitress in Raleigh, North Carolina. There's no way that that would have happened. So she came up probably about a year and a half after I moved to Chicago. So that was nice. Yeah, yeah. And it must have been nice, yeah, for you also for her, you know, because you guys pretty much worked together always, yeah?

I mean, were you writing things for her? Were you collaborating with her? Yeah, we started in Chicago. We started doing things together. And then I moved to New York and then did a play at Theater for the New Workshop. And it was somebody, Arnold April, this fellow in Chicago, was adapting a lot of the stories that turned into my first book. And then I wrote something for Amy and Cheryl Trick, who was in Chicago.

And then we did that. And then we did another play in New York. But we did it at La Mama. And then Amy moved up. And then we did a bunch of plays. Were you writing things for performance before you started collaborating with Amy or was it mostly prose stuff? I was writing things. I started reading out loud.

I read something out loud in class one day in creative writing class. And then somebody said, oh, I'm having a happening at my loft. Sure. Oh, why don't you come and read? And I said, okay. And then somebody said, oh, I'm having a happening at my loft in two weeks. But, you know, the first time I read out loud, I thought, this is what I wanted to do.

I wanted to write my own stuff and read it out loud. How did I not know that? It never occurred to me that you could make a career out of it out loud. How did I not know that? It never occurred to me that you could make a career out of it. Because it's got to be the laziest form of show business there is. And people have said to me, we want you to memorize the stuff, and then

we'll turn it into, and it's like, no, I'm not going to do that. Memorize it, and then look people in the eye, and then get all dramatic, and then say, and then somebody came to the door. That's just, that's not going to happen. But I would go hear somebody read. Yeah?

Yeah. I mean, I can't understand people coming to hear me read, but I can understand me wanting to go hear other people read. Yeah. Yeah, it is a very niche thing. I mean, there's not, although it's happening more and more, you know, now, podcasts, live performances of podcasts. I know, you know, Karen Kilgariff. Do you know Karen Kilgariff? She's a very funny comedy writer. And she does a podcast with a partner called My Favorite Murder, and it's all about true crime. That's all she does now. That's just they do the podcast.

They do live versions of it. And she's just like, yeah, I'm now a professional podcaster. And she just loves it. And it really is like kind of an interesting, you know, like radio plays, but they're being done live, you know? It's, you know, and I, it, the podcast, I'm a late comer of the podcasting world and don't still don't know that much about it at all.

And it still is mysterious to me that people listen to so many of them and they go see them be done live i just am kind of i'd still i think having gotten on a tell been on television at a relatively young age i have a very old idea of like wow what, what's, what's legit and what's kind of, you know, Mickey mouse and rinky dink. And, uh, you know, cause I remember when people first start saying like, do things for YouTube and I, are you please I'm not doing, and now it's like, Oh no shit. Yeah. It's do things for YouTube. It's a, it's legit, you know, people are going to watch it and you're going to make money from it. And it's, it's a perfectly viable way to entertain people. So yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's all different,

but it is. Yeah. Well, there's no reason to know that you should read things aloud for a living. But when I was in school, in high school, and the teacher would give us a reading assignment, and then she knew, okay, no one read it. So we would read it out loud in class. Yeah. I would always think, call on me, me. I want to read it.

Let me, let me. Yeah. And I could read it cold. And I don't know. I just thought. And I would listen to other people and I'd be like, can you try? You know, can you please at least try? Yeah, yeah.

And, I mean, I have a wretched voice. I mean, it sounds better with a cold. But it's not a, you know, when I was growing up, the people on the radio were like, you know, they had sonorous voices and they, you never would have heard a voice like mine on the radio. Not even on a commercial, you would have heard it. So it never occurred to me. It's just everything, I felt like everything was against me. I don't mean to sound that in a persecuted way, but I mean, you know, my life's not remarkable. You know, the things that I write about aren't big things. I didn't, you know, I didn't get shot by anybody.

I didn't rescue anybody. I didn't, you know, one of the things that I, you know, wrote recently was about going to visit my dad in the assisted living center that he's in. I mean, it's not a big, you know, material. So I am surprised. I'm in constant shock that anybody might care. Well, you're pretty funny.

You're pretty funny. You tell the good stories. Well, yeah, but I mean, sure. There's handsomer people too, but you're a very handsome man. Well, our time is limited here, so I've got to move on to sort of like – I mean, you've lived – now you've lived all over the world. Was that always a part of what you were planning on doing? Always wanted to. Yeah?

Yeah, I always thought if I had the chance, I'd live outside the United States. Did you and Hugh getting together, was that sort of like – was that one of the things that sort of bound you two together? Was the desire to do that? Because it'd be tough to hook up with somebody that. Well, Hugh grew up living outside the United States. Right. So he had just kind of returned to America. I see. And so kind of. His parents were like, what do you call it?

His dad was with the Foreign Service. That's what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was a diplomat. Yeah. And so Hugh grew up. Hugh and I were at the airport. We were flying to Frankfurt in Paris.

And they called our flight. And I said, Hugh, we got to go. And Hugh said, they're not going anywhere without us. And I said, you know, when your dad's the ambassador and it's a plane just for your family, they're not going anywhere without you. I said, but Lufthansa would be happy to leave your ass at Charles de Gaulle Airport. That's funny. He grew up in Africa. And they were – he was on the plane one time and somebody was grilling meat on the airplane.

They had like a little charcoal fire and they were grilling goat for their lunch on the airplane. Oh, that's fantastic. That's fantastic. Dave Foley from Kids in the Hall told me a story once about when his first kid was a baby and flying somewhere in Africa. And the baby was fussing. And he said arms just came over the seat behind him and took the baby from him. And then the baby just got passed all the way around the airplane. Just different people holding the baby, talking.

And the baby calmed down because it just was being passed around the plane. Like, you know, I don't know. You know, like somebody when they win an Oscar, you know. Everyone wants to hold it, so. That must be your dream as a parent, though, if you've got a colicky baby on a plane. Because at least people would stop looking at you. Yeah.

You know, and saying, shut that damn kid off. And now it's not you anymore. It's the person at you. Yeah. You know, and saying, shut that damn kid off. And now it's not you anymore. It's the person behind you. It's also like, it's such a beautiful difference of responsibility. You know, whereas, you know, you have a crying baby on a plane and people act like you're an asshole. Yeah. As if this isn't how people are made. this isn't how people are made.

And as if this isn't just, you know, as much of a part of reality as there being dirt and stones and trees and sky. Whereas here it's like, no, it's all ours. It's a collective responsibility to soothe this child, which is, you know. Well, plus I like that as a parent, you know, I mean, you just would never see that in the United States. It's like, give your baby to that man four rows back with one eye. Yeah.

Well, he said it was a little nerve wracking, but it meant, you know, like, well, really, what've lived in Paris and now in England, and now you're back in New York. And you say Germany. Is there any other places? I'd love to live in Germany. Yeah. I don't want to live in a hot place. Yeah. And I don't want to live in, gee, that's pretty much it. I don't want to live in a hot place.

Like, I'd be happy to move to any of the Scandinavian countries I'd move to. But, you know, it's going to be something everywhere. It's going to be something. Like in England, it's women putting fingernail polish on planes, on trains. I can't stand it. Yeah. And every time you get on a train. Is it the smell you mean?

Yeah. Yeah. It goes right to my central nervous system. Yeah, I don't like that smell either. And if you say to somebody, do you mind? Like the windows don't open. They're always like, what's your problem? Yeah.

It should be understood. Yeah. That you don't put. And in France, it's people making out everywhere you go. And it sickens me. Yeah. I would rather see somebody defecating than kissing. Really?

Oh, yeah. I think someone should put you to the test on that, just for like about five days straight, just where you have to look at people's shit just every hour. You know what? I feel really confident that would not change my tune. I really wouldn't. Oh, that's wonderful.

Do you have, let me ask you. Yeah. On your show, do you have guests on who are sick a lot? Not often. I mean, and they very rarely talk about it if they are. Yeah, yeah. Because I have to go on TV tonight. Yeah.

So. Where are you going? Jimmy Kimmel. Uh-huh. You'll be fine. But I can blow my nose and stuff and it's okay. Yeah, why not? All right.

Yeah. Just Kimmel. He's actually, he's a friend of mine. He's a lovely person, so he will. I met him a couple, I was on his show a few times. Yeah. I have to say, he was absolutely lovely. He's amazing.

He's actually, for being a talk show host, I mean, it's a very strange thing to be. And it, and it, I think that it has, um, there's a price to be paid for what I call the commodification of the self.

That if you make your personality a product that and that there's no sort of barrier of artifice that you can hide behind or protect something that's you i think it's very dangerous and that and that there's something to be lost and he is as nice and normal and generous and kind and considerate as a person can be that is a fucking talk show host and it always makes me feel like there's bodies buried somewhere because there has to be some sort of off gassing that's happening to you know for that balance because he just, you know, the first time he invited me to, he has a house down in, you know, Orange County on the beach. And it's just, it's a normal house. It's not, you know, and it's not even really on the beach. It's just on a block of all those kind of row houses in California that are in Venice or wherever. And there was about maybe 25 people

there. And it was, it was me and the kids, uh, cause my ex-wife was out of town and the rest was just his family. And he cooked for everybody. And he had been like up all night, like making chicken skewers and marinating them, which is the sort of thing I would do. So I already was like, I already felt, but I was like, that's like, I don't see, I don't see a lot of other late night hosts staying up late at night, skewering chicken for their 25 relatives that they're having over to cook. So he's a pretty great guy. I mean, you know, Conan's great too, but anyway, no, the people, Conan's great too. But anyway.

No, people are sick on TV. I have never over illness missed a day of television. And it's crazy to me. And I would now, but I haven't been sick. But like I used to do, there were days when I did the late night show back in the 90s with like a fever, like literally like 101 fever sitting next to people feeling like, well, I can't not do this. And now, of course, it's like, oh, yeah, I think it would have been fine if I had said I have a 101 degree fever and I don't really want to give it to David Hasselhoff, whatever I have. So, yeah, you can be sick tonight. But it's different.

Like for, you know, when I go on tour, you know, you often get a flu or something like that. And I got a complaint letter. This woman said, you blew your nose all night. Well, yeah, I was there. Yeah. You know, I blew your nose all night. Well, yeah, I was there. Yeah. You know, I didn't cancel. Right.

And I was there. And yeah, I had to blow my nose a lot. But I got a gastrointestinal virus. And I thought, because I always stand up when I read. And I was so afraid I was going to shit in my pants that I sat down on a stool. Yeah. And I was afraid to get up from that stool because you hear about people,

people do shit themselves in their pants on stage. Sure, sure. I mean, it happens. Right. But can you imagine? Oh, boy. I would just immediately go and kill myself. I think you'd be okay.

And I would set myself on fire. I would like set my, I would start, I would set my pants on fire. Yeah. And then I would set myself on fire. I would start, I would set my pants on fire, and then I would kill myself. So no one had to clean up the mess. So hopefully the whole stage could burn. Not the whole theater, but the stage and I could burn until there wouldn't be anybody having to, you know.

You just immolate, and it'd just be like some light ash that like a clown would come up and sweep up like a spotlight. An Emmett Kelly clown. Well, what's in the future for you? I mean, what are you, you know, what are you doing aside from moving to Germany? Is there something, you know, that you're not doing that you wish you were doing? No, I can't think of anything. I go on these tours and I write new stuff.

I write for The New Yorker and I have a radio show in England. I don't know. I never saw beyond any of that. I don't need anything more. Are you a happy person? I think so. Yeah. Have you always been?

I mean, were there periods of your life, I mean, aside from like, you know, the 20 to 27, I mean, did you ever struggle with any kind of depression or? No. No? No, I'm'm pretty cheerful person you're cheerful are you i i i mean i'm a i definitely suffer from depression and i've been medicated for it for many many years yeah yeah no it's uh it no no i'm oh i'm not a happy person and in fact uh i often uh suffer from a kind of anhedonia.

Did you do The Hilarious World of Depression? I did. Oh. I did. I was on an episode of that. And that's actually talking about depression, that particular podcast, and just different public comments about depression are, I was always loathe to be a person who would say, well, I'm on television, so I'm going to talk about something I've been through so that other

people can feel. It always just seems so self-serving when I would hear people do it, but it does matter. There are people just from doing John Moe's podcast of the hilarious world of depression, people stopping me and saying how meaningful it was to them and that they went into therapy because of it after being in denial. And so it is, it's, I, you know, it is something that's very important to me because it is, I mean, this, this podcast to me is meant to be therapeutic kind of talk. It's meant to be examination and introspection because it's something that I have been devoting myself to as a, you know, not even really a sideline, like something that I've really been actively trying throughout my life to make things better and to kind of, to rid myself of that anhedonia, that feeling like i'm not sure i'll ever really enjoy stuff i know other people do i hear them talk about it i hear them you know i look at a sunset and i think yeah it's pretty but i don't and i for all i know i'm it's a it's a trick that like i'm that i feel it just as much as anybody else and i just don't trust it. But yeah, no, it's, I, it's hard, you know, happiness or contentment is something that I definitely have had to work at

and also am unlucky in that my brain chemistry makes it difficult for me to experience it and to access it. So, yeah, you're lucky. God damn it. Did you get your shirt at 45 RPM? The Japanese store? No. Where is this?

Somewhere online. I can't remember the name of the company. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the covered buttons is what made me think. They'll have a covered button. It's some, I just saw them online or I got an email for them. I don't remember. I'd have to look at the tag to remember what the name was.

Did you ever hear of that as a pickup line? Someone told me you go to a bar and you reached, and you would never do this now, you reach to the back of a woman's neck and you look at the tag in her dress and you say, oh, it does say made in heaven. Who on earth would

that work on? I don't know. Another one is you take a sugar packet and you go up to someone and you say, excuse me miss, I believe you dropped your name tag. Yes, that's me, Sugar Packet Richardson. Well, now, do people ask you for advice? Like, do you get young people saying to you, like, you know?

Writing advice, you know, how do you, you know, writing advice. And I, you know, gee. I mean, you know, if you do everything, if you do something every day, you're going to get better at it. Yeah. But that's the only way you're going to get better. Yeah. Is to do it at it. Yeah. But that's the only way you're going to get better. Yeah. Is to do it every day. Yeah.

And I think what's harder now is people want something immediate. They want immediately to be validated or immediate to be congratulated or immediately to get feedback. There's a lot to be said for keeping stuff to yourself, you know, before you're ready to be seen because otherwise people are going to be like oh i you know they're just going to be weary of you before you even you know then when you've got something decent they're already going to be tired of you yeah yeah well it's hard now because it is it's yeah it's the social media uh it's you know i mean you there are i mean early on in social

media there you know you see it with reddit or fortune there's i there are times when i feel like yeah there aren't there were sort of like some people that maybe should maybe should have stayed you know especially when it's like you know hate groups like you're in an ice you're feeling isolated in your hatred and and bigotry somewhere and then like oh no there's a whole community of us like yeah that's maybe not the best thing you know that's not like it's not you know in for every, well, it's probably mostly healthy. It's mostly healthy in that there are people that feel isolated for a reason that they should not feel isolated. And then they find a sense of community online. You know, I've got to say, I don't know anything about it.

Like, I've never seen what Facebook looks like. I've never seen what Facebook looks like. I've never seen what Twitter looks like. You know, a couple of people I follow on Instagram, I have an Instagram page, I've never seen it. Yeah. No interest at all? No, just none. Yeah.

Yeah. Are you on the internet much? Gee, compared to most people, probably not. Not really? Yeah. Just reading? uh gee compared to most people probably not not really yeah just look reading i heard about reddit and then i went to a one time and i thought i don't know it just seemed too big or something and so i just didn't yeah it's not yeah i mean i'm i'm 10 years younger than you and they're still like that there are parts of it that i just feel like, oh, no, that's – I don't know how to navigate that.

I don't like to think of the world, you know, like when you look at comment sections on anything, right, and how quickly it degenerates and how quickly it becomes ugly. I don't like – I don't know. I don't want to think of the world like that. Yeah. I don't want to be, I don't know, I don't want to be reminded of it. I don't want to, it's ugly to me.

And I know it exists, but I don't know, I really like to ignore it. Yeah. Well, I will tell you that as someone who's fairly active on Twitter and just Twitter, I was on Facebook originally and then I just died. It was A, the lack of character limits. Like Twitter has a character limit. So what's fun and what originally for me as someone with – well, as a joke writer, as someone with lots of disconnected short little ideas, it was – especially when it was 140 characters. really found it fun to try and get a joke that might have three different funny things in it like a like a funny image a word play and then just a punch line all but within 140 characters

and it is has been great for my other writing in terms of just economy it It really, you know, there's no... Gesundheit. There's no room for excess in it. You know, you have to really... And that's always a helpful thing, I think, for writing, you know. But I also, too, it's also been very good for my life. I've made a lot of friends. And I do, it can definitely be like a conversation and an outreach to people and an ongoing conversation with funny people of a similar ilk to me,

some of whom I've never met face-to-face. And then there is also that really, really ugly shit of where there are just people, just shit posters that like to say shitty stuff about people and like to say, you know, like people, you know, when I was going through a divorce saying kind of shitty things about me at a very vulnerable time when I have, you know, my family's in turmoil. And that's like a reason to sort of kick me around a little bit. And I just, you know, it's just like, wow, that's really, it's the anonymity, it's the safety of it. And it's just, if you're mean, it's a great place to be.

But it's also, you know, it can be a great place to be if you're sharing and caring and, you know, want to spread a little love. It can be great. So get on Twitter. Really. You know, stop picking up trash and start getting on Twitter. Oh, God. Pick up trash. I should pick up trash. No pick no i'm gonna get on litter

oh man i forgot my snare drum and cymbal damn it well david this has been a joy for me too andy and uh it's it's great to just catch up and uh and I'm excited about you guys coming back to New York. I mean, you know, there's a lot more likelihood of us hanging out there than there is in England. I would love to. Yeah. And we, gee, were you in Chelsea? You were on like 26th Avenue, like 26th Street. Six between 17th and 18th, and then we were on 23rd between 6th and 7th.

Because I would go to those Christmas parties. Yes. That you would have. Yeah, and New Year's Eve parties. Yeah. Yeah. And those were always so much fun. And then, yeah, it's nice.

I mean, it's nice. I mean, we have a really great apartment now. That's great. Yeah. It's still a great place to be, New York City. And it's great to see you and Hugh, and thank you for coming. And don't forget to check out David Sedaris' Masterclass on writing and humor at masterclass.com. And thank you all for listening to this episode of The Three Questions, and we will check in with you next time.

Bye. I've got a big, big love for you. Chris Bannon, and Colin Anderson at Earwolf. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, associate produced by Jen Samples and Galit Sahayek, and engineered by Will Becton. And if you haven't already, make sure to rate and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production

in association with Earwolf.