The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Dax Shepard

Episode Date: September 3, 2019

Actor Dax Shepard talks to Andy Richter about being raised by a single mother, feeling the need to win every interaction, casting what-ifs, and the pitfalls of having a public marriage. Plus, Dax breaks down why he considers himself bad at picking what’s best for him.This episode is sponsored by HelloFresh (HelloFresh.com/threequestions80 code: THREEQUESTIONS80), Betterhelp (betterhelp.com/threequestions code: THREEQUESTIONS), and Beach Too Sandy, Water Too Wet podcast.

I'm gonna- Oh, go ahead. That was the beginning. Go ahead. Fuck, and you were- You had your momentum. Yeah, yeah. No, go ahead.

No, I was just gonna warn you that- I was just about to start, but you had to fucking blurt something out. Go ahead. I already fucked it up. I just wanted to- No, we've started. No, this is it. That's how it is. Okay okay i was just trying to warn you that i was gonna be using a lot of different nicotine products and i just i don't know why i felt compelled to let

how many nicotine products i'm gonna bounce back and forth between dip what i'm which i'm quitting in three days and then um some some nicotine gum ah yeah so because i'm quitting in three days i'm going very hard right now i I see. Did you ever smoke cigarettes? Oh yeah. For 10, probably longer. 14 years. Yeah. Yeah. I've been off for, for 14 years. The other day I bummed a cigarette from somebody and I felt like I was out with people and somebody went out to have a smoke and I was like, you know what? I haven't, I mean, literally I have not smoked a cigarette since 2001. Okay.

18 years. Yeah, yeah. And so it wasn't unpleasant, but it was, I mean, but it wasn't great. Yeah. But it was just enough to realize like, oh man, I should not have, I should not do this. Right. Like, wow. I should not have I should not do this right like wow because it is still it was like a sleeping golem inside me woke up and like give me more of that oh yeah that's uh people in sobriety will

talk about that a lot where it's like someone will have 12 years of sobriety or maybe in my case I had six the first time I did opiates for like a surgery yeah and at that point I was like you know I just forget what it's like to be in the tiger ravenous mode and i think maybe that is a past version to myself yeah yeah and then as soon as that shit gets in me i turn into a scumbag oh really yeah because kristin holds the medicine yeah and she has to dole it out on the prescribed schedule. And I find immediately I start becoming so nice to her, so charming. Can I help anything? And then slowly I'll explain to her that, you know,

well, I used to have a huge tolerance, so they don't work as well for me. I'm also 200 pounds and 6'2". That's for everyone. You would get the same prescription. And I just turn into a fucking scumbag. You start enlisting people that you meet on the street to steal them from her. Yes, yes. Some other woman comes in and like, who is this?

That's Jasmine. Her foot hurts so bad. She doesn't think she can walk back to see her kids. And they're alone. Yeah. She's not sure where they are. It might take a while. She might be walking for a while. Yeah, but the type. So were you a heavy smoker? Yes, yes. Yeah. She's not sure where they are. It might take a while. She might be walking for a while.

Yeah, but the type. So did you, were you a heavy smoker? Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. I feel like, we'll continue with this, but I do feel like I should introduce the show. Okay. We started a sloppy way here. Yeah.

But folks, you're listening to three questions. But I mean, how would you stumble upon this? That's right. How does one stumble upon this and not know that i'm talking to my boyfriend and lover dax shepherd yes my sweetheart my darling i'm sorry i got kind of infected your show because i like to just i like i like to parachute into conversation you did and i remember when i did your show and when i've listened to it it does seem like that like you don't do a see i just like to do it because the music online has a nice post. Oh, okay. And so it's nice.

It hits that post, and then it's like, hey there. And I was inhaling and just about to do it right when you started talking about your Copenhagen. Well, do you do an intro, though? No, not really. Oh, okay. I'm just sort of like, hey, here we are. And it's variable. But that makes sense.

Yeah. Because I have an intro, and I go, today I'm going to talk to Andy Richter. He's the greatest. Oh, no, I don't pre-tape. It's like we start right here and then I just start. In which case, you definitely need to say who you're talking to. It's Dax Shepard, everyone. Thanks for having me, Andy. I'm happy to have you.

You had me on yours, which was very helpful on the day that mine launched. I had the number one podcast in the country for approximately 14 hours that's great oh my god i was such a dick were you oh my god yeah yeah i was just smashing into cars i just rented a maserati and smashed into park cars put diesel in it yeah yeah back to the nicotine yeah i smoked uh for, well, from when I was 17 until when I was 34, 35. Oh, yeah, a little longer than that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because in 2001, I was, yeah, 34.

Because in 2001, I was, yeah, 34. Now, when you took a hit of this, were you struck with the absurdity of the activity itself? Because I've been off of it so long that now when I look at it, I go, my goodness. I thought, let's put some smoke in this body. Yeah, yeah. Like it really, something sunk in where I was like, drink gasoline. Why stop with fucking filling these tiny little organs well you know that's the thing too is it like I and I go back and forth about smoking weed although I don't really smoke like I don't smoke herb as they say anymore and I now I'm currently

in a period of abstaining because the problem is like now if there's a vape pen, like I just, I just had a few weeks ago where I had a few weeks off and it was vacation. I was like, all right, I'm going to go pick up a vape pen. And basically if anyone watched the Comic-Con shows, I was high the entire time, just if you want to know, you know, if my mom's listening to let her know that. And that can work. Not really during the show. I'm kidding. But yeah, but like, I mean, yeah, It's like, all right, sure. You know, because I do – I can maintain, as virtually 80% of Los Angeles now, maintain a level of productivity while being a little bit high. Sure, sure.

It's just – for me, it's like a toggle switch that's contentment. It's contentment. Like I go from being kind of a slightly crabby asshole that's just fighting with his politeness in order to like not be let the crabby asshole out to being like, no, I actually kind of am content being alive. And I enjoy what's happening right now. You know, so. Yeah. For years, it was a self-medicating thing. Well, also, though, with the legalization, it's a far more predictable exercise now. Yes.

I think Dan Savage says he misses the days of playing pot brownie roulette. Yes. Like where you might get the piece that has 70 grams of THC. And you might get the one with zero. And also the weed. It's like you would get, people would say, oh, this is really good. And it was just basically, you know, chopped up rope or something. Right.

And there was no kind of like indica sativa. An old fairy top cider. What the hell is indica sativa? No, I bought a bag of weed. You know, you didn't have any idea. Well, and then they make these dose pens, right? Yes. That vibrate.

My wife has these. They vibrate when you get an exact amount of something. Right, right. But is that she using it for CBD or? Oh, recreational. Oh, yeah, yeah. Whatever. I mean, not a ton.

She's very streaky, you know? Yeah, yeah. Like, she'll have a month where she does it. Yeah. And then I'll be like, honey, have you noticed you haven't done it in two months? And she doesn't notice. Right. I mean, she's so not an addict.

Yeah, yeah. I think when we first started dating, she smoked kind of casually. Cigarettes. Cigarettes. Cigarettes. Yeah. And again, like maybe a month and a half went by and I was like, wow, you did a great job quitting smoking. You didn't get grumpy or anything. She's like, I didn't quit smoking.

I'm like, you haven't had one for six weeks? She's like, I haven't? And I could have fucking choked her to death. My mom had a friend or still has a friend i don't know if she's still smoking but she for years would buy a pack of cigarettes and keep them in the freezer because she would only like smoke one or two a weekend oh man and at the time i was a smoker and i was like how do you do that how do you not just like shove your face into a carton yeah and then shove it into a bonfire did you keep i kept

cartons in my freezer i didn't keep cartons in my freezer uh just because i didn't have that kind of uh good common sense right because it was dramatically cheaper ridiculously cheap yeah yeah i'm not even sure how much do cigarettes cost about 150 bucks a pack they must be i mean because i i don't know i think they were like five, six bucks when they quit. And I don't say this in a judgmental way. I just, I say it in an I'm aware of it way where I have some friends back home that like will be struggling with money

and I'll help out. And I do notice they do smoke a couple of packs a day. Again, I'm not judging. I just am aware. Well, it's about $100 a week habit probably. You know, it really has gotten so expensive. I would be looking for, I guess, growing it in the backyard. Yeah. People do weed.

Yeah, no, I know. Well, and like when you say about like intaking smoke into your lungs, I mean, I still, like that to me is like, oh, yeah, that's a pretty good delivery system for whatever you want to do you know and and and the vaping too is a lot just a lot easier like when i was you know i'd get i'd get i keep getting sinus infections and i and i actually have had sinus surgery and it was like and the missing component of like i got sinus surgery and it got a lot better but the missing component of why I'd get like sinus infections that would last months and months and months

was that I was probably smoking weed in the middle of there. So I like, you know, I'm like, it's like trying to heal a leg yet taking a small ball peen hammer and knocking on your knee at night, you know, like just for fun, you know, cause it feels good or something. But the time that it really strikes me me the absurdity is like occasionally something will burn in the kitchen you know in the whole fucking house yeah yeah it smells horrible i wouldn't i don't want to be in there i want to like open those windows get the fans i don't want to get the fuck out my instinct is not to go in there and start inhaling a ton of that yes yum yet if it were somehow laced with nicotine i'd be like like, oh, it's great.

All right. I'm going to set up a hammock. Yeah. I'm going to baste a honey-baked ham in nicotine and then light it. I used to – I mean, I even think that nicotine was more – I was – like I responded to it more than the THC for some reason. It was just – and I also found there was an existential component to smoking cigarettes that was the answer to the question what am i going to do now and i mean and the big question of that you can answer well i'm going to go have a step outside and have a smoke and that's what

you're doing right now it gives you purpose yeah and then you don't have to think about the big question about like well what am i actually doing on the planet and i used to i remember when you could smoke in bars a big night of drinking was just a big night of smoking oh that's the drinking was so secondary to just like a banging darts oh just like a pack and a half and you can't even unravel the next day's hangover you're like do i just have poisoning from the cigarettes or is it the booze awful oh it's rough um now i wonder for me i think there's like a three-fold reason i started in the first place you know one is i want to look cool and and be anti-social yeah one i wanted to prove my my bravery and you could die of this and then i didn't learn until i read sedaris's naked in one of his first books there's a a story in there, Plague of Ticks,

which I had a ton of ticks. Oh, really? Oh my God. Plagued with ticks. And I never connected the dots until I read that story that those mostly stopped when I started smoking cigarettes. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah.

So I do think- Yeah, he used to lick light switches and things like that. Oh, yeah. And count the steps. He'd have to go back and forth to school four times because he'd lose count. And I used to do the weirdest shit. And then I had never connected those dots. But I do think it's also can satiate like OCD stuff.

Yeah, sure. It gives you this weird bit of control over the next five minutes. Yeah, doing something with your hands. That's just kind of, and you don't have to think about it and it's occupying you. Taking control of your emotions, in a sense, like regulating how you feel. To have the power to light this thing and then now feel a certain way,

gives you the illusion of control over your... And you are getting a little speedy rush, too, which always helps OCD stuff, you know? Yeah. Like a little speedy rush. And I read this really crazy, should there be any overlap listeners of this show and mine? I've talked about it way too many times. But I read this really great New York Times article from a psychiatrist who was interviewing a new patient and the new patient was going through her life and she doesn't do drugs, shouldn't drink blah blah blah the whole time she was chewing this gum and she put a few pieces in and towards the end of it she said you know as you probably see i'm very heavily addicted to nicotine i don't know if that's good or bad and the psychiatrist said uh well let me

actually research it before i tell you it's good or bad um but what what what this psychiatrist pointed out was that uh she could identify people's mental health issues by the drugs they used recreationally. So case in point is if she has a patient that can do a line of cocaine and then go straight to sleep, that person has ADHD. Yeah, yeah. That's obvious. And people who use marijuana and feel somehow energized by that and creative and productive, those people generally have depression.

And the point she was making was just there's drugs on planet earth there have been forever people find the ones they need yeah we have some as psychiatrists we have ones we offer but they're basically doing the same thing and people tend to find their shit ultimately her her recommendation on the nicotine was it raises your blood pressure which if you have high blood pressure that's no good but it also delays the onset of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. So there is some upside to it. Oh, wow. So ultimately her recommendation was not to quit.

Right, right. Yeah, I just found that to be just an interesting thought that we find our shit. Yeah, oh, absolutely. And we will never not strive to get high. We will never not strive to alter our consciousness. I remember in, I think it was high school in health class, there was some old movie about drugs and alcohol. It may have been like a Disney movie from like the late 60s or something.

And it was very old kind of, you know, that animation style that was supposed to look artsy, but it was really just lazy. Like you didn't, you don't know. But I remember they were sort of, there was like, how did we start drinking alcohol? And there was a caveman and they just, they illustrated this like fruit falling off a tree into a puddle, rotting, and then a caveman coming and drinking the puddle.

And it really is like yeah that's probably how it happened well elephants hide fruit yeah and let it ferment and then eat it and get drunk and knowingly there's when the apples get rotten there are moose that attack towns in sweden because they're on a drunk they're on a bender they're yeah like oh they get terrorized by drunken moose yeah man and have you been next to a moose in real life? Oh, my God. They're terrifying. Those in Buffalo.

Buffalo are ridiculous. I don't know why they can't photograph them in a manner that lets you know how big they are. They are ridiculous. You need to be next to one. They're like 1,800 pounds. Like an RV. Yeah. Yeah, they're fucking, the rack is like eight feet in the air.

It's crazy. I was in, oh, man, this is one of the crazier things I witnessed. I was in Jackson Hole, Wyoming at a friend's house. Older friend of mine, he's coming up on 70. And we're in his backyard. And he and I are just talking in the backyard and it's nighttime. And then between him and this little lake behind him is maybe nine feet. He's standing about nine feet from this lake.

And just out of nowhere, a fucking moose at full sprint runs between him and the lake. And I was like, he spun around and I was like, you almost got hit by a car. Like I just watched you almost get killed. Yeah. Just sitting in the backyard. Yep. And did he say that happens frequently? He sees them.

He's never been grazed by one at a full canter. Wow, wow. Well, now, you're from Michigan. Yes, sir. Yeah, yeah. Proudly. Now, are you from the suburbs? Yes, I am from—I think you and I, we shared this a little bit in comment.

I'm from the last town that would be a suburb, but then transitions into farmland. Yes, that's exactly how I grew up. It was about probably 30 miles as the crow flies from downtown Detroit. And has it become more suburban since your childhood? Because that's certainly the case with Yorkville, which is the town I grew up in. Yeah, it had this kind of spike in, like, McMansion construction. When I grew up there, it was very blue-collar,

and I would say a good half of the town was probably below the poverty line. Yeah. And then way after I left, I would say it became kind of upper-middle class. And then I think that plateaued, and now maybe is, I don't know. I don't know what's happening.

Oh. Yeah. But the point was is there were people there kind of upper middle class. And then I think that plateaued and now maybe is, I don't know. I don't know what's happening. Kind of. Oh, yeah. But the point was is there were people there that, like, had money, and then there were kids getting on the bus that had shit on their boots from having mucked a stall. Precisely, yeah. Well, and it's funny, too, because a lot of the – when I was there, the people that were wealthy, they were –, I'm thinking of like the richest people.

In Michigan? No, in Illinois. Oh, okay. In Illinois, the town I grew up in Illinois. The wealthy people, there were some people who came out there to be like horse people. Oh, uh-huh.

So they were rich, but they still would have horseshit on them. Yeah. And then, but then it was like- Like Wendellville Canyon. Yeah, yeah. But then I remember there was another family, I think that like owned nursing homes or something.

And they were, but they just had a big car. They weren't like, you know, they didn't wear designer clothes or anything. Right. But yeah, but now, I mean, now I don't, but I mean, we were literally, we had a McDonald's open. And it was like a huge deal. Like literally the morning the McDonald's opened, like half of the town came in. Like a Whole Foods coming somewhere.

Yeah, absolutely. But it was McDonald's. It was the antithesis of Whole Foods. And then even, and that was when I was a kid. And then in high school, there were many nights where what you did was hang out in McDonald's parking lot. Oh, fuck yes.

There was so little to do in your life that you just go to mcdonald's and just sit there all fucking night yeah ours was the milford cinema which had a screen that is half the size of my current living room tv and uh now that either means you're mr big shot or it was a shitty theater no i think every american practically even if you're broke has an obnoxiously big tv when i go through cost I'm like, that's what they cost now? 600 bucks for a 65 inch? Remember when we were kids, if someone had that Zenith Council TV, 80% of it was wood.

And then there was maybe like a 27 inch screen inside. And those fucking things were $1,300, $1,400. You were rich if you had one. Now it's like you see people getting evicted, and on the curb with the trash bag luggage is a 65-inch TV. Yeah, is a disposable flat screen. Yeah, like people don't even steal TVs anymore. When we were kids, when our house got robbed, they stole the TVs.

And I don't think I've had a TV repaired in 15, 20 years. No, no, no. You just throw them out. You throw them right out. Because I'll be like, well, yeah, I could fix it, but it'll cost $4 less than a new one. Yeah, just leave the hatchback open, put it in there, drive around for a while. Eventually, the problem will be solved.

Or in the alley. Everything goes in the alley. You put something in the alley, it goes. But the interesting thing about where I lived is then Kristen lived, again, 20 minutes away. Yeah. But she is very metropolitan, and I very much am a hillbilly. Yeah. You know, like the shit we did was straight redneck.

Was she a fancier town or more sophisticated? Yeah, she was, you know, 8 Mile, obviously, is the famous division between Detroit and most of the suburbs. Yeah. And she lived at 9 Mile. Oh, I see. But in a nice, kind of just a a hip cool downtown city-ish type you know environment all of her neighbors gm executives kind of living there specifically she grew up in a area called uh um huntington woods i couldn't even think of

the real name because everyone including its residents call it hanukkah woods it's she was the only gentile in that whole neighborhood. Oh, I see. So, yeah, and then bleeding into Birmingham, which is really, really nice. Yeah, yeah. And so just a completely different, like when we share our childhood stories, we could be from two different states. Yeah, yeah.

It's dramatically different. Yeah, absolutely. The amount of fighting that happened at my school and stuff, she's just like, what are you talking about? I saw a fight twice in my life. And I'm'm like first there was one every day of the week and then ones were scheduled for the milford cinema and on friday night you saw three or four fights yeah yeah and what would they get nasty and violent oh yeah the bloody broken noses the whole nine yards and uh and then i think way more sexual activity because we were bored too. Like, you know, several girls were pregnant in my eighth grade class.

People were just, they were finger blasting and they were punching dudes. I hope not one right after the other. I hope there was some hand washing in between. I mean, or maybe I don't. I don't know. Let everyone have what they want. There's clearly one direction it can go, which is fine. Right.

Which is the finger blasting happens before the right hook. Yeah, yeah. You don't, it everyone have what they want there's clearly one direction it can go which is fine right which is the finger blasting happens before the right hook yeah yeah you don't it should not be reversed no one should have blood on their hand you know what i'll get back to you okay yeah ask some people i mean the weekend's right around the corner i'll let you know oh and i always just really quick i just think of now uh the poor adults that would go to that movie i can't imagine they ever went more than once theater because it was at 90 occupancy was taken by 12 and 14 year olds you know seventh through eighth grade sixth through eighth grade was was the and people were just jumping over seats and screaming and throwing. So, I mean, God bless those out-of-towners, I guess. Ours was a little calmer, I think.

I mean, there were definitely, there was a division in my town between what was known. And it was just because it was so small. I mean, I think our school had like maybe 600 kids, six or 700 kids total your high school our high school oh okay so it was you know like it was a fairly smallish class so there wasn't like a lot of a lot of room for differentiation in terms of your groups like there wasn't like science geeks and i mean there was a couple kids like that or there't theater kids. There was just jocks and burnouts. Well, what's interesting is it's kind of, yeah, it mirrors the dynamic of small towns versus big towns, which is my high school is big enough that you could be anonymous in some ways, right? It was hard in our school.

Right. Like you could be a dick to some guy or he could be a dick to you. And then you might not see that guy for a week or whatever it was. So I think it's kind of like it was a microcosm of what now has happened on the internet where it's just like you kind of feel anonymous about it all yeah yeah yeah it's uh although now now i mean there is the difference that there is like you do get regardless of where you are like if you were if you grew up in my town and you were like a just a full-on theater kid you didn't have theater kid, you had to be a theater kid kind of on your own, but also sort of have friends that played basketball or friends that were farm kids or friends that – Right.

You didn't get to just – but now you really get to – Isolate in your tribe. Yeah, you really get to kind of find your tribe at an early age, at least in a virtual kind of way. Well, was there a predominant group that settled the area you lived in? Because this was all kind of a mystery to me until I read a Malcolm Gladwell book that talked about the culture of pride in northern Kentucky and Appalachia. Have you read that book by chance? in Northern Kentucky and Appalachia. Have you read that book by chance?

Well, it talks about that, you know, these historic feuds, like the Hatfields and McCoys and all this. There's a huge history. That's just one that we know. There's thousands of family feuds that have ended in multiple murders in that area, right? And then he even goes through, like, how the court trials, basically, they just can't convict anyone. So, if you're like, well, he called my wife a bitch yeah they're like acquitted you know right of course so he really dives into he took my hog right in in the re his reason is and maybe it's not his and

you borrowed it but most of the people that ended up in in northern kentucky came from scotland ireland different herding backgrounds. So farming, farming communities are subsistence modes. You have clear boundaries of your farmland. You work it. And there's a finite set of resources in terms of, in terms of grazing land between you and the next town over. It's permeable and no one has rights to it. So these guys are, are, are, are herding sheep on the Scottish hillsides. Well, no one owns that, right? So you guys are herding sheep on the Scottish hillsides. Well, no one owns that, right? So you're kind of, you're staking out an area that you're herding in,

and you've got to fucking stand up for that area. Right. And you just look at the cultures that had a lot of herding without defined borders, the Bedouins, all these different people, and there's an increased level of you've got to stand your ground, you've got to fight. And it's prized, and it's honoredzed and it's honored and it's respected. Anywho, so this whole pride of culture thing, Michigan got a huge influx of Kentucky folks, Tennessee folks,

when the auto boom happened. My grandparents are both from Kentucky. Most of the people in my town, or many of them, had grandparents that were from that culture of pride area. So I do think it was uniquely like stand your ground, punch a guy who says your sister's hair looks bad. I don't know. That's my explanation for it. Yeah, the displacement of Appalachian people, because in Chicago, on the north side of Chicago, there's, I don't know how much it is anymore, but even when I was a young man, deeply hillbilly areas.

Right. Because people, when they would cut the top off a hill to strip mine it in Kentucky or West Virginia, they'd say, go to Chicago and we'll set you up and we'll get you a job in a factory. Except there was no, there was, they would give them cheap housing, but there would be no factory and there'd be no job. Right. So there are all these just, and I mean you go into into like shitty little taverns which

is where we would all go yeah and there was nothing but like you know there was nothing but like it felt like it had been cast yeah it was like you know uh it was all like you know the jukebox was all country music it was all you know like slim whitman and you know and and the people would be and i'd you know and i'd go in and i like old country music. It was all, you know, like Slim Whitman. Yeah. And, you know, and the people would be, and I'd, you know, and I'd go in and I like old country music and I'd play old country on the jukebox. And this one night, a guy turned around, he's like, who played this Marty Robbins? And I was like, I did. I don't remember what song.

He goes like, my dad plays Marty Robbins. What the hell are you playing? Like he was angry. Oh, wow. And I was like, I like Marty Robbins. And he immediately was like, was angry oh wow and I was like I like Marty Robbins and he immediately was like oh I do too like just switched around

but it was just it was funny that that I wonder if it was that it reminded him of dad and he didn't want to be reminded of only dad at the right time he seemed to be very drunk and it seemed to be

a normal state of being the logic wasn't linear yeah can't you tell my love's a-growing The logic wasn't linear. Can't you tell my love's a-growing? So what was your household like? I mean, I know you were raised mostly by a single mother. That's right.

My mother left my father when I was three. My brother was eight. My sister wasn't here yet. And she had not worked up to that point so she got a job working at general motors as a janitor on the night shift uh-huh and we moved into this uh tiny little apartment that everyone was on welfare ironically overlooking the milford cinema later to come into play yeah and we were there for probably what's funny now that i'm older and time's moving so much quicker i think like oh we lived in those for so now i in reality i recognize like we were there for probably, what's funny now that I'm older and time's moving so much quicker, I think like, oh, we lived in those, now in reality, I recognize like we were there for

a year. Yeah. And then we moved to like- And did you, was your dad, he didn't provide support? My father kept the family house. Oh, wow. Got his buddy who he sold cars with to move into my bedroom. Oh, wow.

Greg, who amazingly, my mother ended up marrying. That was my first step. It was like I took over my bedroom. Wow, wow, wow. But my mom, to her credit, she started as a janitor. Then she started working in the tool crib. Then she became a manager of the tool crib. So we were always on that climb.

And I would say we were in like a little townhouse until I was probably six. And then we moved to our first house that my mom bought for us in a pretty nice little lower middle-class neighborhood in Highland. And then Greg, my dad's buddy, she then married, got pregnant with my sister and my sister arrived. And then Greg was out of there before Carly was maybe six months old. And then we lived on our own for maybe a few years. Then a new stepdad who was an engineer at gm we were with him he had two kids we moved into his house uh that so there were five kids three and two yeah yeah yeah and how is that um contentious okay well there's a bunch there's like there's there's a funny version and then there's the shitty version and i'm happy to tell

both but one one of the just right- Why don't you make them one? Okay, okay. You're such a time saver. Yeah, okay. Maybe you'll be wiping a tear away and then laughing. I try to keep this thing to an hour, man. Okay, so the order of his children were, he had a son that was exactly my brother's age. And then he had a daughter who was exactly between my brother and I.

Okay. So I knew her from elementary school. Uh-huh. Heather. And I had a huge crush on her. Oh, wow. Before I knew my mom was- At what age?

Dating this guy. Second grade, third grade. Okay. Yeah, so my brother was probably in eighth grade. I was probably in second grade. She was probably in fourth or fifth grade. So she was in love with my brother. I was in love with her.

And that was the triangle that existed for, I don't know, maybe the first six months we all lived together. Wow. And I used to have these fantasies. And how did your brother feel about her? Oh, he wanted. Yeah, completely. He did not want her to look at him. You know, when you're older and some younger person likes you and you have morals, you're

like, I don't want to happen to notice you might be good looking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, going back to that, that was really funny. That's just the kind of comedy headline of it. But he, the stepdad, he would go to Arizona in the winter because they had to continue to test the cars they were engineering. And there was snow in michigan so he would go so my poor mother stepped in the situation where she now had five

kids in a full-time job and it just wasn't in a husband that was in and out yeah yeah and uh a much different culture house culture than we had curated in our home uh-huh and so that too didn't work out and then i guess in sixth grade, they got divorced. And then I temporarily with my brother moved in with my dad. And it was right before my dad got sober. That was a pretty gnarly. Why did you move in with your dad? Because my mom left my stepdad. We didn't have a place to live. She had sold our house. And then she decided she was going to build a house herself. Oh, I see. And then that process took obviously a year it was really nowhere for us to go my mom and sister went to her friend's house she worked with and they stayed there and then my brother and i went to

my dad's house and that lasted about six months and was your dad's like a stable presence no he was every i'm gonna preface by saying because i I've gotten into a bad habit of only airing my grievances with him. I understand. Very evolved. I've been caught in the same thing. Yeah. Very evolved man. Many of his friends were gay.

All of his girlfriends were Jewish or black. He was kind of an evolved dude. Very huggy, affectionate, said, I love you. He also had a bad drinking and coke problem. Yeah. And there wasn't a ton of time for us. So we saw him every other weekend, but in general, at least half of those,

he just drove us straight to my grandparents' house, which was great because that was my favorite place on earth. Yeah. So when I moved in with him, that was virtually the first time I'd lived with him that I could remember. I had been with him until three, but I didn't really remember.

And yeah, I was riding bikes in the neighborhood one day and I came home and there was like six kids from the neighborhood all at the end of my driveway on their bikes. And they looked quite concerned. And they said, we don't know what's going on in there. There's a fight. And so I walk in the house, my dad's sitting shirtless on the couch the coffee table is shattered there's glass everywhere uh he's smoking a cigarette out of breath he has a bloody nose i go oh my god what happened right there and i hear my brother from upstairs going pack your shit we're fucking leaving and i look up the stairs his shirt's ripped in half he's bleeding they've just had a full battle royale in the house.

How old's your brother at this time? He, well, if I was in sixth grade, he was 17. Oh, wow. And my dad's a big, was a big fucking guy. Yeah, yeah. And my brother did not lose the fight. Wow. They were both very tore up.

And so once I saw my brother, because through all these iterations you know my mom who's my favorite human being on earth i can also be critical of and say she's a human and she needed affection and love we'd be the core she'd meet a guy that guy would be the core for a while and so my brother and i were the thing we were each other's safety net and our all of our security was each other so when i saw my brother bleeding and his shirt torn i went downstairs and i'm like you're a fucking piece of shit i hate you fuck you to your dad yeah you're the worst fucking dad you know really let him have it we moved out of the house that afternoon went and lived in this woman's small two-bedroom house

while the house got finished and then we all moved as a family to a house which was quite nice and it was in milford where i was saying the farmland meets the suburbs yeah and that was just the three of you the three siblings and your mom that's right okay four of us and that i would say was kind of for me i don't know if you have this you didn't move much right you kind of stayed of stayed. Yeah. I mean, yeah, pretty much. And at least, yeah. I don't know why, but chronologically, we were at places longer. But for me, my childhood is really the three years in Milford in that house with my mom, no husband.

That was like I meet my best friend. My whole life kind of started. Sixth grade to high school. Yes. And I, unlike most people, love junior high. If I could live a year of my life over and over again, it'd be seventh grade. It's just the most fantastic year. And then I, weirdly, then my dad got sober when I was in seventh grade. He then got in a crazy car accident going into ninth grade. He literally needed someone to live with

him to just function. Wow. I was also, I used to tell that story. It's just, I went to help my dad. Additionally, I was so terrified of going to high school because I had made a lot of enemies with a lot of tough jock type guys. And I was pretty certain. In junior high? Yes. So half the reason junior high was so good was that when I went to sixth grade, my brother gave me a side spike and he dressed me in Vans and Levi's. What does a side spike mean?

So I had like a spiky hairdo on the side and big bangs that swooped down. Again, I did not pick this hairdo. Kind of like a Cameron Esposito haircut. I don't know. Do you know who that is? No, I don't. But you would if you... A very mid 80s skater cut.

Okay. But very fashion forward for junior high. My brother was five years older so he and he dressed me in 501s in converse and i skateboarded all because of him and when i got into junior high the eighth grade girls liked me a lot when i was in sixth grade yeah because i was tall and i had this cool style and you're cute well you're really a three-year period where i was really cute listen you've been cute forever. But I was so girl crazy, and I dated all these popular girls in grades two above me, and those guys did not fucking like that.

And I was obnoxious and made a lot of jokes, and I was, you know, all the many reasons you could hate me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I was also just very afraid to go to Milford High School. But you aren't afraid of a fight. I'm not. And were you then afraid of a fight? Did that happen? I had the appropriate amount of fear fighting a guy two years older than me. I see.

And I had seen a lot of fights that got real, real gnarly. Yeah, sure. Not like kids wrestling. Like broken nose. Yes, broken nose. There's dudes with casts from punching a guy. Fighting to me was always like it was not part of the vocabulary that's i was always struck like when i when i friends of mine that i

ended up knowing in chicago who grew up on the south side where there would be an altercation and of all the different things that you could choose on how it could go, to me, punch that motherfucker in the face was not like on the table. Like that was just. Right. It was crazy. It's, you know, it was as much as like take off your clothes and run around clucking like a chicken. Yes, but I know you can follow the very simple logic, which is A, I'm envious of that. I don't, I think it's, I'm not into, I hope my kids never experience that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm not. But if it becomes a learned experience that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm not a- But if it becomes a learned mode of communication- Well, here's what happens. You, or in my case, me, you know, dude, Dave Buick, this eighth grader was humongous who hated I was dating Sasha, comes up and fucking blasts you in the face. It's very stunning. It takes, you're confused for about 15 seconds after that first hit and in that 15 seconds he can do whatever he wants and you quickly learn oh whoever gets hit in

the face first generally is losing that fight yeah so here's here's the calculus here's the equation yeah and now when i think it's going to go that way i just have a very logical choice to make am i going to be the one that swings first or am I going to be trying to gather my shit for 15 seconds? It's like Mike Tyson has that great quote he just said recently that everyone has a game plan until they're punched in the face. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, and I think also too, I benefited from being a large person. I was always big. I'm from big, you know, like fucking plow horse people and and i think it's a burden i think the only the only kind of like bullying that i ever uh was always threatened by kids that were like older kids that but with whom i was about the same size i had that too and they would just assert themselves and i and i remember too like for years too and i think i was just so conflict averse from home and just generally yeah that i could i would shut down you know like i you know like i remember there was some

in gym we played uh like scooter on little you know these like little furniture dollies did you play oh yeah no it's like a little square piece of hardwood with four wheels on little, you know, on these like little furniture dollies. Did you play on those? Oh, yeah, yeah. It's like a little square piece of hardwood with four wheels on it that you might put a potted plant on and move it around. Sure. Except everybody be on those and you're playing kind of a soccer game in the gym. And there was one kid that like, there was a kid,

and I mean, I've known him since kindergarten. And he, but he was like one of the quote unquote burnout kids. And he like knocked me off my car or something just too aggressive and i like flared and and just like went up behind him and gave him a full-on blast kick in the middle of the back and sent him on his face on the floor and he got up like in a like in a crazy wild rage yeah screaming at me, spittle flying. And I was just like totally stunned by that.

And in retrospect, it's probably because this kid lived a horribly violent existence. Sure, sure. And I didn't. I mean, I had witnessed unpleasantries, but it was not the same. But yeah, no, I still, it's like. Well, and I'm leaving out probably half of it, which I can unfortunately own now, which is I had a brother that was five years older than me. He so had the upper hand. He fought me all day long, every day. I was his Nintendo before there was a Nintendo.

So I had that. And then I also had a violent stepdad in the mix. and then I also had a violent stepdad in the mix and so when I went to elementary school and I started wrestling with kids my age on the playground I felt this amazing sense of power and control that I did not have so I can admit that I was probably first through fifth grade first through fourth grade probably a bully in retrospect not picking on the weak people but I just wanted to be wrestling all the time right whoever i could get it going with and then and i and my best friend was this kid clay smades who was the co-tough kid in my class yeah and i had an epiphany in fourth

grade where i was like you know clay these kids don't like us they They're afraid of us. That's why people are nice to us. They're afraid that we're going to end up fighting them. And I don't like it. And I actually declared in fourth grade, I'm like, I'm done fighting. And he thought that was ridiculous. And this is really the turning point. I got to sixth grade. I'm done fighting.

I'm done fighting for a year and a half. Get to sixth grade, to junior high. And there was a kid, a grade older than me, Sean Castle, who wanted to fight me. Didn't want to fight him. He took my bus route home. He followed me off the bus. He threatened me a bunch of times in front of the bus. I somehow talked my way out of that. Then an hour later, I'm at my friend's house watching TV in his living room. Sean Castle walks in. I'm sitting on the couch. He gets on top of me and punches me in the face. I mean, I got to say 15, 20 times.

And I just sat there and let him punch me in the face. And about six kids watched. And then he just got bored of it or something, got up and left. And my shame over having not fought back was the most brutal, crippling, would think about it every night as I would go to sleep, just humiliated with myself. Oh man, I can, I mean, I've gotten a lot better, but you know, a traffic altercation with a fuck you, no fuck you, that, that will burn like a cigarette ash for an hour. Yes. I mean, like I said, I've gotten better. I can sort of whatever. And I've also sort of I said, I've gotten better. I can sort of whatever.

And I've also sort of, again, I have a game plan now when people get mad at me in traffic. I smile like ridiculously huge and give them a big thumbs up. You know, it's just, it always blows their wiring. They're like, hey, fuck you, motherfucker.

I'm ready to get out of this car. And if you smile and give them a big thumbs up and say, you know, okay, buddy. Yeah. Way to go. I'm there now,

but it was a long road there. I remember you once telling me a story about some big muscle head in the parking lot. Oh, of Albertsons? Of Albertsons. Yeah, that was a weird.

A giant guy, because it had just kind of happened and the giant guy got out like a huge muscle head and you were ready to go. And he laughed at you because.

Well, no. What happened was I was in line at the Albertsons, right? And I was one customer behind this couple. And the guy was a for real bodybuilder. He was like my height and probably 230. And he's wearing like a string tank top and everything. Sexy. He just turns to me and he goes, what movie?

And I go, what? And he goes, what movie do I know you from? And I go, oh, I don't know. And he's like, and then turned his head. I thought that was it, right? I'm also having a terrible day for whatever reason. I was having a fucking terrible day. I was single, whatever.

And he checks out. I get my shit. I walk out into the parking lot i have my truck there and i'm right up to my truck and he's about 20 cars away by the the coffee bean and he yells it was fucking without a paddle in the movie fucking sucked anyways asshole and i just had this moment where i was like this guy's gonna win's going to get tagged. And it's fucking worth it. Like I need, I'll take whatever beating to give him because I'm just, I fuck no. I throw the bag of shit I got in the bed of the pickup truck

and I just start walking very quickly towards him. And I'm going, what motherfucker? You want to fucking do? And I'm unhinged. As I approach him, I start realizing he's getting a little nervous. Yeah. And then he has like a tell basically where he goes what the fuck are you doing i'm so much bigger than you and i was like oh my god i know exactly what's happened yeah he has been afraid of this that's

why he got so enormous he can't fight fight. He's going to be defenseless. And I'm screaming. And then he gets in his car and shuts the door in the passenger seat. And his girlfriend gets in the driver's seat. And they lock the doors. And I scream a little bit. And then I'm like, then I walk into Coffee Bean. And I'm like, now I'm on full tilt.

And I got to calm down before I get the truck. He gets back out of the car. He's yelling at me. I run out the thing. And he jumps back in his car and locks the door. And then they drive away. And that was the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, dear.

So stupid. Don't recommend it. Not proud of it. No, no, I know. I got it. I met a lovely woman who broadened my view of the world. I, one time, and I went to the whole stories. But I'm not a fighter.

Obviously, I'm not a fight obviously i'm not a fight but on once on the way like i had and this sounds so goddamn entitled but half of my stories at home we were going to the emmys oh sure okay and very relatable already yeah yeah and number one i'm like getting on a tuxedo that's too tight kids you know having to worry about the kids getting and when then we get into like my mazda minivan to drive ourselves to the emmys because like we're not going any fucking parties right and i you know so it's like i'm in and i just hate the whole thing and there was other things going on in my life but i just well- Well, can I pause you for one second? Yeah.

Are you doing what I do before I go to the Emmys or the Golden Globes or the Oscars where I go, I'm going to this thing. I have no business there. Everyone's going to go,

why is that guy here? He's- A little bit. Okay. No, because it feels, well, I'm always amazed by the fact that the rejection junkies

that we all are in show business decided to have a way to feel rejected even in our success. So in every single category, there's however many people and all but one gets to feel like shit. Yeah, 80% are losers. You're being given an award. You know, you're being given the gift of being chosen in this small group when you're already in a fucking small group. You do this for a living. Your success will be on your wildest dreams yes more than anyone's entitled so we're gonna pick the best of those people and then you're gonna go and you're gonna sit there dressed

up uncomfortably and you're gonna and they're gonna say it's not you yeah and you know and instead it's like and for us too it was always like and it's always a daily show. In the meantime, though, you're going to be up comparing the whole time. So you're going to see all these people who are higher on the ladder than you make more money. I'm going to see people I came up with who are now on network sitcoms and making, you know, more money. And so I'm going to be in a, in a lunchroom and there are the cool, there are the cool kids table and I am not fucking there. I know I'm going to be in a lunchroom, and there are the cool kids' table, and I am not fucking there. I know I'm not there. And on our drive down, it was downtown at the LA Live or whatever, the Staples Center thing.

And a guy bumps us at an intersection, and another light, like I say, I'll keep it short. I got out of the car, which I never fucking do. I'll keep it short. I got out of the car, which I never fucking do. And as I'm getting out of the car, Sarah says, don't. She just went, don't. And I got out of the car and I walk and I'm in a fucking tuxedo. Right.

And I'm on Olympic Boulevard and I think Arlington. Some guy that looks like he's a waiter because he's kind of dressed up. He's in a shitty convertible. And I'm like, what the fuck is your problem? And he's like, let's pull up, let's pull up, let's just pull up and talk about it. I'm not going to waste any more fucking time with you. What's your, you know? And then as I walk away, he calls me fatso or something. And I just turned back and talked to him. And I was like, you're really fucking brave when my back is to you. And he goes, and he he's like let's just pull over and talk about it let's pull over it's so funny each man's trying to walk away i know but i just was like and then it just like it ruined it was so dumb i just ruined it it was i don't know so regrettable it's all like misplaced shit and to your point you know one of the the

greatest gifts my dad gave me is uh as he was dying from cancer and i was spending a ton of time with him back in michigan my father was never bested he was never he fought at costco he'd get in a shoving match with the free samples he fought at the gas station he was always he was the epitome of like an alpha unhinged alpha energy right and so i was looking at him laying in the bed and he looked very cute and you know now childlike because he was a little scared and all this stuff and i was kind of able to see him in a different manner which was really helpful but i was looking at him i was like this is gonna be you this is you that adrenal dump the cortisol dump of the fucking going up to an 11 getting out of the car all stuff. I live with that chemistry for another two hours after that event.

And that chemistry kills you. And I was like, that's part of this recipe. Sure, smoking cigarettes was. Yeah, yeah. But definitely that. Is this what you want? Yes. And I'm like, by winning every interaction, I am going to ultimately lose.

I have a similar thing with my dad because my dad wasn't physical, but my dad's a brilliantly smart man and like a dog with a bone when he senses he's been wronged. And numerous times in my life, I have seen him make clerks cry over a perceived lack of correct service. Sure, sure. Some indiscretion. Yeah. And he's always ready to go, but in that sense. And I have that too.

I had to learn early on in my relationships, because it wasn't a physical thing, but I definitely- Would intellectually try to tear or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have a certain grasp of logic that can be definitely used as a cudgel, as a bludgeon. And I have learned over time, there's no winning here. There's just assertion of some kind of, it's a louder voice, basically. Well, and have you been given the gift of arguing with someone just like you because i had a breakthrough about seven years ago i started arguing with another actor yeah and it went on for an hour and a half it started in an airport lounge tim allen no no uh jason priestly Jason Priestley. It started in a first class lounge and then

through the entire walk to the gate and then on the plane. Was it friendly or just? It was a debate about healthcare. Oh, I see. Should have never been having the debate. Whatever. I'm sure you know where I stand on healthcare. Yes, of course. And then we were separated by about seven seats in first class and he continued to shout over, oh, well, maybe everyone should have a cell phone. That should be a right everyone has. Why not give, you know? And I all of a sudden-

I bet you I could guess this person in like three or four guesses. I'm sure you could. I bet I could. And I got to the point where I started pretending that I had fallen asleep. I reclined my seat, and I actually started pretending to fall asleep. And all of a sudden, I thought, oh, all these arguments that you think you've won, people just got bored and exhausted. You haven't won any of them. You didn't convince anyone of a new opinion.

You just wore them out. Yeah. And that was, I really learned a lot from that. You have a wonderful amount of self-awareness. You know, like that's like, you're, talk about evolved. That's pretty fucking evolved to learn that much. I'm trying. Those different things. Yeah, no. I know like that's like you're talk about evolved that's pretty fucking evolved to learn that much i'm trying those different things yeah no i mean that's great that's great and there's a lot of people especially that reach a certain level of success in this business and

also like you've directed fucking feature films there's not a lot of directors that are out there learning from their mistakes or thinking about how their actions are impacting others because they've been surrounded by a structure that tells them they're right yeah so kudos to you well thank you so much a having to get sober starts you on that path yeah because you quickly learn like okay i'm not using all that stuff yeah but i have all the same character defects i was treating with that stuff, but I have all the same character defects I was treating with that stuff. And those are the things that are leading

to all my angst and my discomfort. And I got to just start kind of cleaning those up because it's too uncomfortable to not have some medication. So if the medication's gone, it's basically like deciding you're going to change your health with diet or something.

I got to prevent the problem from happening before it does. I really want to go back to just one thing about the Emmy thing, which is really funny. So last year, Kristen got nominated for a Golden Globe, which, how exciting. It's so great. And that's a fun party, supposedly. Yeah. I've never been, but.

So you take this moment where she gets nominated, everyone calls, it's exciting. Mind you, I'll also add, she doesn't give a fuck, which is one of the things I love about her. She could care less if she was nominated, and she doesn't care if she wins. In fact, she doesn't want to make a speech, so she'd rather not. With all that said, this special month-long thing

where you've been nominated, we get dressed up, we go, and we're seated in the TV section, which is basically on a platform behind all the movie people, right? Yeah. And that's fine. But not only does that happen, Jim Carrey then does a bit where he's not allowed to sit with the movie people, that he's got to get kicked into the TV section. And they, for whatever reason, have arranged that he's got to come sit at our table.

So, I mean, the actual joke is, oh my God, he's been rele come sit at our table so i mean the actual joke is oh my god he's been relegated to the rip rap and then he sits at our table and i was just kind of like well look how quickly this turned this was like from oh my god who's the asshole now now we're kind of helping relay this like diminished status absolutely i was just like oh you can't win no this is amazing no you have to really you have to really like just not let any of it matter because if you let it let it matter i mean sure it's nice and it's nice to get a trophy sure and that'll never not be nice yeah but you can't let it like if you if you say that winning this trophy is so important that it means losing the trophy is like hugely important too. Yeah, yes.

And then what the fuck are you saying? Yeah, you got to take the whole thing on. Absolutely. And look, I tried to check myself and just go like, let's make sure this opinion isn't informed by the fact that you know you're never winning a statue. It's very clear to me i will not ever be making a speech at any of those award shows so am i now building a case against the entire industry of award shows because i know i'm not getting one but i do feel like i'm on kind of firm bedrock by saying uh it's just 100 your ego like it's the result of

something and i've learned in life that the process is the thing to focus on and care about and not the result. So it's just kind of antithetical to what I've learned makes me feel happy for a sustained period of time.

So yeah. Yeah. Well, I didn't, this will sound like, again, I don't think I would have even won one, but I didn't submit.

When you're on a TV show, you have to submit to an Emmy. And then the network very much wants you to submit because potentially you could get nominated and that's good for the show and everything. And they were like, hey, submission's coming up. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing it.

And they're like, well, you know, you should do it. It's good for the show. And I'm like, A, I'm not getting one. B, I don't even want to be involved in the whole pageant. Yeah, yeah. So I'm just, I'm skipping it. When I was the star of shows, I never not getting one. B, I don't even want to be involved in the whole pageant. Yeah, yeah. So I'm just, I'm skipping it. When I was the star of shows, I never did it for myself, but I'd be like, if you want to submit me, go right ahead.

I mean, you know. Right. And then I would sort of, if they did, then I would follow it and see like, oh. Oh, wow. I'm glad they really gave me that chance to feel bad about myself. I mean, in some way, you just have to acknowledge it is like entering a pageant.

Like you have to sign up for the pageant. I just thought, you know, more and more I don't want to sign up. It's a example of an industry that makes a ton of money throwing big parties to make money. Yeah, yeah. It's just money-making parties and advertising. With the hope that the show or movie

will also then make more money. Yeah, and there's no advance. It's just money-making parties and advertising. With the hope that the show or movie will also then make more money. Yeah, and there's no advance. It's not about advancing excellence. No. You can think that it's that, but it's not really. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you go from there to showbiz?

Like, do you go to, you went to community college, right? I bought a candy bar and I opened it up and it had a gold ticket inside. That's not true. I moved to California at 20 to Santa Barbara. I'm not sure why. I knew I was moving out here to pursue comedy. Really? But I had gone to Santa Barbara on a road trip.

Why comedy? why did you think like i'm gonna go make money in comedy because you know like i had chicago to go take improv classes but i was already there yes i thought i would do stand-up yeah and i was just too afraid to do it in detroit yeah and i thought if i move all the way to california i will just i'll have to i thought i was painting myself into a box, but then I found out, oh, there's a way for cowards, which is improv and sketch where you're up there with many people to share the bomb or the success. And so I, I, I had a friend that I met that had done groundlings and he suggested I go do that. And so, uh, right when I got to LA, I lived in Santa

Barbara for one year, went to community college there and then moved to LA and got involved with the groundlings, immediately loved it. And then probably shifted almost immediately to like, oh, well then I guess I love this thing. So now Seriant Live is where I'm aiming to get. And when I got there, maybe Maya had just left the Sunday company Maya Rudolph and she was on then of course Will Ferrell had just come out of there and a lot of different growlings so I thought oh that's it I'm gonna do that and then I kind of was like oh everyone I'm with by the way it takes like five years to get in the Sunday company or whatever it was for me then all my peers were kind of making a living doing commercials I was like oh well I think I can do

those so then I I just got into acting to make money in commercials. And then the more I was on that stage, I just loved it. I really, really loved it. And then I obviously did not get on Saturday Night Live, but I got on the show Punk'd. After nine years of auditioning and never, I booked two things in nine years years a lawnmower commercial and a ampm gas station buyout and um i got unpunked and then after like nine years of convincing

myself it would never happen it just started happening very very quickly yeah that you were really good on punk though i mean for within that like, because you did seem it was very believable that you could be a guy, you know, like it was, it's what for me is good acting is you don't have any sense that this is, it's, it's the same thing as, you know, going like friends of mine that'll like go in and, and act like they have a French accent to a clerk just to make us laugh and the clerk if the clerk has no and that for me my my theory of acting has always been it's lying it's good lying yeah yeah it's not letting any not giving any tell that you're not what you're what you say you are yeah and i've had people really offended by that like no it's about finding truth like yeah maybe but that's not the first thing sure the first thing is lying it's like i'm gary stomptrop right right no like yeah i'm not a fucking helicopter pilot right you know the heads i'm wearing the headset and i'm i seem like it but i'm not really a helicopter yeah yeah like

me as the audio engineer yeah yeah it was all horseshit yeah but uh yeah but so so well what's fun and then it's just you know well punk came came out and it was a very big show on MTV. I want to say it was the biggest show that year. Yeah. And I immediately started getting meetings with like studio people, generals, and I went on one and they were casting this movie Without a Paddle. I think Punk'd came out maybe in February and maybe it stopped airing in April. And then in September, I was flying in New Zealand to be in Without a Paddle with Seth Green and Matthew Lillard and had never done any movie acting.

Yeah. Never done any screen acting, really. And landed with the perfect two guys because Seth had been doing it since he was six. Yeah. He'd been on Johnny Carson at nine years old or something. Yeah, because I remember when I started to know him as Seth Green, it's like, oh, I've seen that kid in a million commercials. Oh, most famously, and my favorite thing is he was the cha-ching guy.

Oh, yeah. Two burgers, free fries, and a drink, cha-ching. Yeah. I'll send you down a YouTube wormhole. He got so famous from that, they brought him to the New Orleans Saints game because they made that the team motto, cha-ching. And he had never seen the commercial

because it only played like east of the Mississippi. And he goes down there at like 15 or 16 in a trench coat. He likes nunchucks. Sure, sure. And he goes out on this football field, like 90,000 people are screaming cha-ching. And they made a little video about it for the local news. And it's all captured.

I can't imagine a more surreal thing at like 15 or 16. And he goes up in the middle of the field, does some karate, and screams cha-ching. And the place goes bananas. And we were doing without a paddle. And somehow that came up. And I was like, you were the cha-ching guy? I don't think i've ever been more blown away by finding out an actor yeah yeah had done something yeah

so anyways yeah i did that movie and then um uh i i pretty i was also doing um i would do king of the hills uh maybe done two or three and then mike judge and i really hit it off during those sessions and i think i went to lunch with them a couple times. And so when I got home, this script idiocracy was floating around. And I read it. And I said, I want to come in and read for Frito. And he said, look, I like you. But I want him to be a big slob and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, well, can I just audition?

I do this character. I used to do it at the Groundlings. And I just feel like it would fit. So I came in and I did Frito. And he was like, what is funny? Yeah, I think I see this. And so, and then I got that.

And then based on having worked with Mike Judge, Favreau was interested in me because he also loves Mike Judge as we all do. And then I- Wait, can I stop you right there? Yeah, yeah. Because I read for that too. Oh, you did? I read for that too.

And it was one of those ones where his reaction, because I read directly for him, and we'd known each other. I think he'd been on the Conan show and we'd known each other. But I did, because I play a fucking idiot pretty well. Cabin Boy was the first thing anybody really knew me from. And that's like, I mean, almost, that's like IQ 10. I'm wondering when we're going to enter into a phase where you really can't do that.

I don't know. I don't know. But he was like, oh yeah, this is, man, that was good. Yeah, I can see this. Yeah. Wow. Oh man. Oh, okay.

All right. Well, man, that was really, no, that was really good. And, you know, and it's just like one of those ones ones where you know, like, and a couple times you do it and you know, like, all right, fuck, I think I got this. And a couple times, I got it. You know, I find out later, I got it. And that was one where I really was like, and then you fucking came along. Did it make you angry at me? Because if I were you, I think I would have been like, wait, that guy?

Why that guy? No, it didn't make me angry at you. No, I mean, there's the envy. There's the envy and the lack of, and every time, and especially at that point, just wanting to be in any kind of movie. And also that movie was so fucking funny and such a great, but, you know, but then it like also too it didn't oh yeah it was 20 people saw it

and then but now it's like really it's really and I had turned down a cultish kind of movie and you were really really good at it

if you had been shitty in it I'd be mad at you well that happens to me all the time or not all the time it has happened to me

where someone else gets cast and I go why the fuck did they hire and then I see them and I'm like oh my god

they're so much better than I would have been yeah I gotta give it up old school they hire? And then I see them and I'm like, oh my God, there's so much better than I would have been. Yeah. I got to give it up. Old school. They were really on me for Will Ferrell's part in old school. And I just, I was like,

I don't know. I mean, and then, and I don't remember something. I took another job or something. I mean, but I can't say they offered it to me. But it was definitely,

there was interest in me for that part. And then when I saw Will in it, I was like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I am not Will Ferrell. I cannot be Will Ferrell. No one is.

Yeah, yeah. No one is. No one is. Well, interestingly enough, or I should say similarly, when I got Idiocracy, they were also wanting to meet with me for Wedding Crashers uh-huh to play the role that ultimately cooper played uh-huh and i was like um no those two guys are the stars and then you have the women and then there's no money and then this thing is like i have a much bigger part and there's more money and i love mike judge and i just want to be associated with him blah blah and um you know that was ultimately very if you were just

looking at career yeah that became the biggest r-rated movie of all time and the other one didn't come out for three years and it came out on like 80 screens yeah but then again so that's a phase where i'm like well i shit the bed on that you just again i wasn't offered it similar they want to talk yeah yeah but there was a couple years where i was like well i chose wrong because no one saw this thing i did so it happened in a vacuum uh and then now 15 years later that movie is very much like a cult movie that a lot of people have seen and i'm delighted i was in it so my perspective is just like a fucking merry merry go round yeah you know and and it's and you know i i you know who was mad at me about it though because uh another person that read for frito was um stern's old guy that he had

the stand-up uh he stabbed himself oh arty lang arty lang ah who i loved on the stern yeah i thought he was phenomenal yeah but i think think he had read for it too. And then he kind of, I think, had an ax to grind. I guess he has said many times on air, you know, I'm a whatever I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's really fun. By the way, now that I've been-

Artie Lang fucked a woman who thought he was me. Oh, really? So yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got, yeah. And he like ashamedly admitted it to me and there's a part of me at the time you know i mean i was like well somebody's getting laid being me you know not necessarily me that's all right whatever i guess there's i got that coin you know somewhere i can spend someday you know that's a that's a tricky moral one because it's like if you're if you want

to fuck andy richter you're also obligated to know who andy richt's a tricky moral one because it's like if you're if you want to fuck andy richter you're also obligated to know who andy richter is on some level and there's also part of me and nothing really against arty but like i find myself just aesthetically more appealing than arty sure sure but i know maybe he was thin at the time you know he goes up and down whatever but you know but i've now interviewed enough people that I've had several people sit down and go like, oh, I was offered Zathura before you. And I'm like, oh, wow. I didn't know that. That's interesting.

I thought I was his first pick. I thought I was the first phone call he made. So I've had a bunch of those already. The weirdest one for me is is a modern family when they first when the casting first went around for that the the the pictures for the eric stone street and jesse tyler ferguson characters were me and tony hale ah and at the time that would have been great at the time i had i knew i was going to be going back to work for with on The Tonight Show, but it was a secret. And so they offered me that role.

And I was like, I don't know, a sitcom. And I had qualms about it. We would be doing this interview on a hot air balloon as you take in that role. No shit. On your gold. I wouldn't be doing a fucking podcast if I'd gotten that. I'd own a podcast network like Scott Aukerman.

No, but one thing I will say, and I will say this, I mean, that show, they hired some fantastic fucking joke writers, and that cast is a top-notch cast. But the first, in the pilot script, the first joke was like, you know, the Julie Bowen and the Ty Burrell character. I don't know their name. I can do that with, like, Game of Thrones character. I don't know their name. I don't do that with like Game of Thrones. I just call everybody by their names. But she says something to him where he's like, I'm wearing workout clothes because I work out.

And she goes, no, you don't. And he looked at the camera. And up to that point, we had no indication that this was a documentary show. And I was like, they're just going to use The Office's documentary style with no explanation. And then a few pages later, I see a confessional straight-on interview. And there's no fucking documentarians. Right, right, right. You're going to lift that.

Yep. You're going to lift the entire like the the skeleton yeah of this dinosaur that is a brontosaurus and you're gonna say well it's not a brontosaur like it was such so offensive to me just in terms of like which is like hooray for me that i i'm concerned about originality but i was just like no no i'm gonna give you an aa uh saying which is um you can't be too dumb for aa but you can be too smart ah and i would say that was a case where you can be too smart for your own good like who gives a flying fuck what format it is but honestly yeah but i've been hung up about the same but honestly and i mean and if i had that choice to do 10 times

i would have chosen to to go back to work with Conan on, because I was so excited about going back to make an immediate TV. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, because. I've only experienced it really on the podcast where like, yeah, you do it and then it's on. Yeah. And nobody gets to say anything. They just. You don't have to wait for somebody to come back from fucking, you know, Maui.

Right. Wait two weeks. The train's moving too fast. Yeah, to have them not understand your point and then you have to make them believe that you adjusted your point for them when you really didn't i mean the the art of taking notes from hollywood dum-dums is to make them feel answered when in fact you've really not answered them at all you know not well i would argue that's even one of the the best skills of life of well

yeah probably life but certainly like filmmakers tv show makers is learning how to make people feel heard yeah giving them something yeah and then still figuring out how to still doing what you want to do yeah it's the most interesting too because if you just if you just do stuff for yourself stay home and if you just do stuff for other, stay home. And if you just do stuff for other people, ugh, gross. So you got to, you know, there's a balance. That tension between the balance is really important. And I have to just acknowledge a mentor of mine, which is Favreau, where he's one of the – I have a very hard time asking for help. I'd rather die if I was drowning.

Yeah. But I have on occasion asked him for advice because he's clearly a phenomenal director. Yeah, yeah. And most of his tips to me have just been the judo of that. He is just a master at judo. Redirecting that note into something that could help service. Sure, sure. He really knows how to get the thing he wants to make made.

And everyone feeling good about it. That's good. That's quite an asset. Yeah, made. Made. And everyone feeling good about it. That's good. That's quite an asset. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and then from there, I mean, you know, people, we're running out of time. Yeah, it happens. So, you know, people can look at your IMDB page if they want to know where that happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I do want to talk to you about your wife. Because you guys have such a lovely relationship that I know from firsthand. And from firsthand exposure. And also you guys kind of have, and this is actually something that I wanted to talk to you about because I do. Do you ever worry, because you also kind of have a public version of your marriage. That scares me. Yeah. Oh, it scares me.

I talk about it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. that scares me. Yeah, oh, it scares me. I talk about it all the time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I very much acknowledge the pitfalls of that. Yeah, because you guys do commercials together.

We do commercials together. In the commercials, we have a perfect life. Yeah, yeah. We decide not to go to the Oscars to watch TV on the couch. Mind you, these are all, I wrote those, so it was shit we do. Like, we bail on stuff. Yeah, yeah. But also, too, you're not just getting a check and doing what you're told. Right.

You have some agency in it. Yes. At least together. Now, I sell things all over town. Yeah, me too. It's like, who am I to not sell things? That's the way the world works. And when I do it personally, I don't have as many kind of restrictions or concerns. Or qualms, yeah.

But when we work together, I feel very controlling over that. And in fact, when we met with Samsung, we had been offered a bunch of different things to do together, and we had never done them. And then when we met with them, I said, look, I'm happy to play who we are. I'm not happy to snap on some kind of archetype of husband-wife, and I'm a bozo, and I think she's naggy. Whatever. I'm like, we will be us, and if that appeals to you, then let's party. And they said, totally, and that's great. We did it. But my fear has always been people will hashtag us like couples goals.

Yeah. That's like a big hashtag for us. If we post something together or whatever, it's, oh, couple goals, couples goals. And my fear is that people will think we saw each other across the room at a party and we were each other's missing pieces. And that people who might look up to us need only find their Kristen Bell or their Dax Shepard. And I just try at all opportunities to say like, no, we started in couples therapy. We were a match made in hell. We're opposites.

I don't value anything she values and vice versa. At the core, it was like, this person has one of the best personalities I've ever been around. I want to be on a porch with this person when I'm old. This person would be an amazing parent if I had children. And I think at her core, she's a very good person that I trust. She's a relentlessly positive person. She is. It fucking annoys me because it's effortless.

Like I go to meetings and I journal and do all this shit to act half as good as she does just innately. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, so I just try to be, I guess the way I try to counteract the fairy tale of it is just to go like, no, no, we fight all the time. Even when she was on my podcast, it was probably miserable for the listeners. The first 45 minutes were bickering. She didn't want to be there she wants to be a michaels buying fabric and she thinks i'm trying to con her into saying something that she would never say you know the whole thing was a shit show for the first half but then we found our way was how patient she was and you i mean you admitted this later like how much you talk over her how much you try and tell her no, that's not what you meant.

What you meant was. And I was just like, what the fuck are you doing? If I were her, I'd be like, no, I meant what I meant. She's so calm and patient and loving. And it's so like thinking about you being nervous in this new situation and has taken care of you. And it was like. Well, it is. It is 80 percent her and then

it is also i have built up goodwill over 12 years which is i do admit when i'm wrong yeah i do go away and it's obvious that that yeah i listened to that and i was more mortified than anyone else could be i'm like i am so controlling right oh but we're so but what ended up is like you could what i took out of that one was just how much she loves you. Yes. And I mean, and obviously you love her, but it just, it was really, it was kind of lovely. I mean, I did feel like, and you've learned, we were hearing you learn how to do this. Oh, that's happened a bunch of times already.

And learning it, yeah, but learning it directly from her. Well, the other thing, there is two layers though. There's our life with our kids and um you know that's not always sunshine she was really depressed the last two weeks she said publicly on instagram she said that so i'm not telling anything out of school and then for me that's hard i'm an approval junkie and if she's short with me and everything i start getting like well i deserve to be in a kitchen in the morning with someone who fucking appreciates me and i start getting resentful that you know and then i stop and i go oh my god she's in pain she needs my help and i

gotta stop thinking about how it's affecting me yeah this whole thing happens right but i will say when we have to work together that is the sweetest spot for us because we have a shared goal which is be good in this interview be good on this talk show be good in this interview. Be good on this talk show. Be good in this thing we're filming. And when we work together, it is the easiest time we have as a couple. That's nice. We have this great. That's nice. It's the family business. Yeah, yeah.

And we have a very, she's my favorite scene partner in the world. That's wonderful. And I am her favorite scene partner. And we just, there's never any issue of figuring out who's going to talk now or who takes this thing. And that's, so when we get to work together, we actually, some of the highlights of us as a couple, we'll drive home holding hands and going like, oh, we do that good together.

I like having you as a partner. That's really great. That's beautiful. It's hard for some people. Well, I mean, it's, yeah. I mean, I was just, because when you said people, people would put hashtag couples goals sometimes about me and my wife and I'm going through a divorce right now. And that was always, it's hard.

I feel that too. I do like that people, and I mean, and there was, there was and still is like some really wonderful components of our relationship. And for many different reasons, it stopped working. And it bore two beautiful humans. Yeah. And I mean, it made two great kids and we were married for 25 years and we are very much a success. I do believe we are very much a success.

I agree. But I, but you know, in the last few years, there were times when people would think, and I mean, people would say it and people would say about it, like friends of ours would say like,

you guys have such, because we were friends and we, and we were funny together and we were friends together. We didn't like have ads that we did together, but it is kind of, you do feel this public version of your relationship that people love and, you know, it's great to have people love it and and and be you know admire it and and feel it as something aspirational but then you sit there and be like oh my god i don't know if i can live up to that well you know here's my like the the direct comparison to me is sobriety so like everyone knows in sobriety you only have today you're sober today yeah there is a by the way this is why people aren't supposed to say they're in aa and i acknowledge it i do it because i think i'm willing to have some people mad at me for however many dudes might look up to me and have seen this thing work so i'm willing to anger some people but the reason is very good

at its core which is if i'm out here saying i'm an AA, and then I publicly go relapse, which is very likely. Most people relapse. Now all of a sudden AA doesn't work because I fucked up. So I get that. But in the same way, I never think, oh, I'm going to be sober for the rest of my life. It has to be just today because I know everyone can lose their sobriety. I similarly look at marriage that way like yes things are great today i might be couples goals today but i also might fuck up

big time in two months i'm aware of that it is she might yes yeah or you might take gather you might out of neglect or whatever you know yes and so yeah life can get too big there's a million different things and so i'm always yes a little hesitant because I'm like, this thing's just like sobriety. It'll work as long as we work our ass off at it. And we might lose the appetite to work our ass off at it. We're humans. And, you know. I actually think that that attitude of AA about like, I can't say I'm in AA.

I mean, I understand the anonymous part of it and all the reasons for that. But if, you know, to not say I saw facts in an AA meeting. Although you can because I'm open about it. I know, but you know what I mean. But anybody that you see at an AA meeting. Yeah. But to say you shouldn't talk about being an AA because of your eventual possibility of failure is a fear-based way of thinking. And it's not a healthy way of thinking.

Yeah. is a fear-based way of thinking and it's not a healthy way of thinking yeah and that and that it's basically the argument to end any kind of acknowledgement of a self-betterment process yes you know like to talk about i'm in therapy like if i you know well therapy must not work because you got divorced yeah yeah or or you know or if like i become a fucking mess down the road or my brain chemistry goes haywire to be like, well, fuck you and your therapy. It didn't work. It didn't keep you from rehab or whatever. I would hope people only hear from me that AA got me these 15 years.

Yeah. And if I go out, it won't be a failing of that. From just this conversation, what you talked about what sobriety has done for you is absolutely like a brochure for sobriety. And the fact that the method that you used it got you there from, you know, and opened your mind and your heart to your own self-acceptance and your own process of learning. Then, yeah, that's some pretty fucking good advertising. And anybody that's angry about it is looking at a deficit kind of life as opposed to a surplus kind of life. Well, and it's basically the thing that I've never loved about religion, which is we do have a text in AA.

And in AA, it says, members of AA shall remain anonymous at the level of press and television. So I am breaking one of the covenants. But I also think that book was written 80 years ago when it meant something much different to say you're an alcoholic in public. Sure, sure. The social pariahness of having that problem then was so different than it is now that to me, it's falling into the category Sure, sure. up and grow yeah yeah it's a frustration i have with just people's uh kind of innate desire to

to hold on to some tradition and just never question it so you know i've never liked that about any other thing i don't know why i would like it about aa right yeah well um that way i mean you know we're again we gotta should we take our pants off I mean, yes, but wait till everyone goes. I want to hashtag couple goals with you and I. Well, this is the way, I mean, I feel like you kind of, you know, we've talked a lot about what you've learned. I mean, that's the third of the questions and where you're going. I don't know. Where are you going? You've directed a movie, you know, you've got the podcast. Yeah. You're working on another show. You got a regular show now, right?'ve got the podcast yeah working on another show you got a regular show now right don't you i'm on a show called ab oh i'm on a show called abc i'm on a

show called bless this mess on abc right with lake bell i have a game show called spin the wheel on fox right game show motherfucker that's my deal i'm the game show host i know i'm sorry that's all right and then i have the podcast yeah and um uh this will sound corny and i and i recognize it's it's uh it's an enormous privilege to be able to have this point of view but i i don't give a fuck where i'm going i used to care so much yeah and when i got the things i thought were bringing me closer to that they never were what i wanted them to be and then the things i didn't want to do turned out to be the best things in my life you know i didn't want to do turned out to be the best things in my life. You know, I didn't want to go on television and be on Parenthood. I thought I'd never get to do movies again.

That turned out to be the very best work experience of my life. Probably redefined me as an actor, all these things. So what I have learned is I am very bad at picking what's best for me. When I get what's best for me, I rarely happen. Absolutely. I strove to be number one on the call sheet, the star of a television show. And I did it three times, which I'm fucking thrilled and will feel to the end of my days like, God damn, I was a star of three different television shows.

Yeah. But I thought that that would be it. And then none of them really worked out in any sort of long-term kind of way. In respect, they did, like in terms of the respect that is given to them. But they didn't last. I don't you know i'm not i don't have that yacht i don't have that beach house that castle in normandy but honestly it's like i okay yeah and and and i also kind of feel like well maybe i'm not supposed to

be number one on the call sheet i tried that and maybe like maybe that's not and i don't and honestly there's a lot of fucking pressure with that. Oh God, yeah. So much of the shit that Conan has to do, I'm just glad like, oh my God, there's so many meetings and boring nonsense. Oh yeah. And they leave me alone. Oh yeah.

Because I had only exclusively directed for a couple of years. And then I went back to just acting and I got on that set and I was like, oh God, I get to walk out of here after cut. And I don't have to worry about a fucking thing what scenes they get today where the sun's at in the sky not my problem just get makeup and come say your words and go sit in your little air conditioned box yeah that's great well more and more I think the thing that I um I make myself run through the the the formula is is just okay i'm on my deathbed is someone going to come in and bring me a printout of my box office and my television ratings and is that what i'm going

to stare at and feel accomplished yeah or am i going to think about the fun i had on the set the experience of it and i just you know i'm increasingly trying to make decisions that will result in fun memories and not worry about where it's going to end up. And also, when you have kids, everything else is fucking nonsense. They're the total key to that. Just ridiculous. Yep. The things that you used to worry about, they're just nonsense. Yep.

They make everything seem stupid in comparison. I got fired from a guest star role on a sitcom a year and a half ago or two years ago for something they really begged me to come in and do. And I didn't have time and I made the time and then I did the table read that they fired me later that afternoon. And on the ride home, when I got the call, I was like, God, what does this say about me? Well, is this something that'll get out in the town? Blah, blah, blah. And I was really caring a lot about it. And then I walked in the house and the two girls were sitting there and I was like, they don't even understand what I do. They, that's not what they've liked about me that I go to some studio to make jokes and

nothing has changed. You know, the things I now value are kind of impermeable. No, that's not the word. You know, they just, they can't really be. Immovable. Yeah, they can't. The thing I now like most about myself really can't be decided by an outside party. Yeah. Whether or not I'm doing a good job as a dad.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love you. I love you. And thank you so much for coming and doing this. This was lovely. Yeah. I mean. I And thank you so much for coming and doing this. This was lovely. Yeah, I mean. I hope you're number one for many, many weeks.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I hope I can come do a live one for you. You asked me to do a live one for you and I wasn't able to schedule wise, but that would be really fun. Yeah, they're incredibly fun.

And again, to have people already love the thing you do and to have that kind of pressure taken away it's like i'll start getting freaked out about a live show i hope it's amazing i'm like no no it's gonna be the exact thing they want that's why they bought tickets to it yeah yeah you know i'm not i don't have to go there and do stand-up for 70 minutes they know the product yes that's huge yeah Most of your career, you're not selecting for who likes you. You're just stepping out on a stage and you're going to win everyone over. Yeah, no. It's much nicer this way.

Absolutely. All right. All right. Well, thank you for coming. And thank you out there at your desks, in your cars. On your treadmills. Yeah, on your treadmills, hiding under a table. I don't know what your deal is. Horseback. I'm not horseback. Let the horse listen. Put one earbud in the horse. Let the horse

have some fun. But thank you for listening, and we will see you next time on The Three Questions. Bye-bye. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Earwolf production. It's produced by me, Kevin Bartelt, executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, associate produced by Jen Samples and Galit Zahayek,

and engineered by Will Becton. And if you haven't already, make sure to rate and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.