The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Demi Adejuyigbe

Episode Date: August 4, 2020

Writer and comedian Demi Adejuyigbe talks with Andy Richter about pointless film criticism, breaking onto the scene with Vine, and writing for The Good Place, The Late Late Show with James Corden, and more.

Well, it's the three questions again. You know, it's what America, it's basically what's keeping America holding on, is me asking the three questions, the three questions of different people. And today I am lucky enough to have a very funny, very, very talented man, Demi Adeduebe. And did I say it right? You did. Nailed it. Oh, thank you. I was even like, oh, wait, we forgot to do the thing where you're like, how do you say

it? And then you got it. I, yeah, no, I did to do the thing where you're like, how do you say it? And then you got it. I, yeah, no, I did that much research. I mean, I'm, yeah, I'm actually, I mean, that was really all I knew about you. I'm surprised that you're black, basically. Yeah, most people are like, Adigewebe. I could have sworn. That's Irish, right?

Yeah. They're confused by my lack of red hair that name that name has as it's tough here isn't it to have that you know it's very uh people do that like they're performative like oh god how do I and I'm like just you don't have to just get through it I don't know yeah yeah yeah but uh aside from that it is it's like a conversation piece for most of everyone else. It's just sort of like, Nigerian, huh? Oh, I know someone who went to Kenya. And I'm like, okay, what do I do with that?

Now, were you born in Nigeria? No, I was born in London. In London? Oh, wow. And how long? And you were there? Oh, that's right. And you were there for just a short while, right?

I was there until I was four. We moved here just after my sister was born. And then my family moved to Texas. Oh, wow. Yeah. From London to Texas. Wow. Yeah, very similar places.

Yes, yes. Did you have a cute little English accent when you were little? I did. And I lost it when I was six. And I'm pissed. Oh, really? You could have been so classy. Oh, where my career would be right now if I still had that English accent.

Right, right, right. You would be, you know, probably in Star Wars or something. I would. That's the only thing keeping me out of Star Wars. Got to be a British guy. Yeah, yeah. Well, what was, were you folks at school in London? I mean, what was the, why, why the trajectory Nigeria, England,

LA, Texas, LA? I believe that they went to college in Nigeria and then got jobs in England. But I also think that my, I really shouldn't know this, but I've, my dad was born in England, had family in Englandland so they it was easy for them to live in england when they did oh because he like had citizenship or something yeah i see and do you remember england do you remember much not in terms of my childhood but we used to go back every so often and that's what i remember uh yeah i was there most recently like a year ago but before that it was like oh every other summer we'd just be like all right well let's go back every so often and that's what i remember uh yeah i was there most recently like a year ago but before that it was like oh every other summer we'd just be like all right well let's go back to england and see our family um but the memories of that time are still like very fleeting like i

i remember like areas and like things that we would do or like just being like oh okay my cousin and i are gonna go walk in this weird like bog type area, but I don't remember England as a whole. One of the local bogs. They have bogs everywhere. I mean, bogs there are like McDonald's over here. So then how is Texas? I mean, was that at culture shock?

What was the transition like? And you say you came here first. Did you come to L.A. for very long in between England and Texas? I mean, was that at culture shock? What was the transition? And you say you came here first. Did you come to LA for very long in between England and Texas? Oh, no, sorry. I meant, I can't, I don't know what, oh, I don't even know why I phrased it like that. No, I didn't come to LA until like I graduated college. Oh, okay. So it was from England to Texas? England to Texas to LA. Yeah. And where in Texas? Dallas. Plano specifically, if you know it.

I do know. I do. It's where the- Heroin capital of the world. Is that where Cowboy Stadium is or is that Arlington? Oh no, that's Arlington. Oh, okay. Wait, it's the Cowboy capital of the world?

It was the heroin capital of the world. Oh, heroin. Why? Why Plano, Texas? hair it was the heroin capital of the world oh heroin why why plano texas there was like there was a time where like i think like eight different uh like white kids overdosed on heroin and then it became a thing where they're like we have to stop this epidemic in the in the town and then they like cleaned it up but it was very much like uh uh like rich kids uh got like had a minor opioid crisis and it became like national news and it was they were like plano was the heroin capital of the world

and then i came in and i was like stop it and they're like all right i thought maybe i thought maybe that like it became the heroin capital when you showed up no no and any timeline that says that is wrong. I was a five-year-old heroin kingpin. Don't ask where my wealth comes from. Well, I'm looking at your place. It's very palatial. Well, no.

And what was, so Dallas, Dallas is all right, so Dallas, Dallas is, Dallas is all right. I guess, you know, Dallas is all right. I always feel like when I talk about Dallas, I say that it doesn't have too much culture to it. And that's what makes me feel like I, I didn't, I don't miss it at all because it feels like growing up in Plano, it was a very suburban place. Like the, the standout thing to do was like, I guess I'll go to the mall. Yeah.

And outside of that, it's like, when I go to the mall yeah and outside of that it's like when i go to dallas it was just for like a concert or some event there that i would then look around just be like i don't feel like this place has anything that i can like glob to is like well this is why people love dallas which is weird because it's like austin i definitely feel like i went to college in austin i felt instantly like this is a town that I would love to be in as a town. And like Houston is the same way where it's like, there's so much culture there and things to do. And like people from Houston are very proud of Houston, but Dallas, I'm just sort of like, it's just this place. It's not really a place that people live as much as a

place that people go to. Yeah. Yeah um well i had i had an aunt that lived there and then i did uh i one of the first things i did and it kind of bridged when i left the conan show in in 2000 i i shot a movie there i worked on a movie there and the people like and it really did strike me going back as an adult like there's really not a lot to do there besides malls and restaurants. Yeah. And then and then it just seems like it's banks. It's like places to put money, spend money and get fat. And it very much is.

I feel like Dallas as a whole is just sort of like it's it's wanting to be wall street but not really putting in the effort so sort of like let's get a bank in there what if we uh had the dr pepper bottling offices down there like what if we had all of these things it's like oh sure you guys can work down there but what else is there to do yeah you go when work is done yeah yeah it's, it's, it feels very financial there. Yeah. Yeah. And I know everybody, somebody that worked on the movie and I was sort of in and out. I didn't stay for long periods, but the people that were there for like three more, you know, three to four months. And I think they figured out the average weight gain was like 11 pounds of the entire crew just because it's, you know, barbecue and Tex-Mex, you know? now when you, was it a hard transition coming into Plano,

Texas from, I don't feel like it was, I came here and like went to kindergarten, I recall, but then also had like daycare in between that. And so it felt like my biggest thing wasn't like the culture shock as much as it was just like, okay, there are two different sort of transitions I need to make here of like groups that I'm seeing. And there's very little overlap between them. But I don't feel like I, I think I was so young that it's just sort of like every kid's like, what, what do I do tomorrow? And so the shock is just existing more than it is like, oh, I got to exist in an American way now. Yeah. But I also feel like I don't remember a lot of that time, aside from like little moments here and there where I'm like, oh, I remember this because it was shameful. I remember this because it was like, like super notable. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And were you, were you always like a funny kid and also a musical kid? You were, you're very musical. And I mean, did you, were you playing music a lot when you were a kid? No, it's actually very funny. I don't have any musical training and I've never really like the closest thing I got was in fourth grade, I would sneak out or not sneak out. But it was like in during lunchtime instead of like going to eat lunch, I would just sort of go to the music room and like try to teach

myself songs on the piano. And that was like the closest I got to being like musical. And then it was my parents were like, well, do you want to take lessons? I was like, no, that sounds like too much work. But we got like a Casio keyboard that I would mess with every so often. And aside from that, it was like I never really did anything musical. I played through middle school. I played the euphonium in the school band. But even then, I was like, I don't care that much about this. I'm going to stop as soon as I can. So it's weird that a lot of the things I do now are very musical. But I think it's sort of like it comes from this place of really liking to tinker and really just feeling like, oh, if there's an idea that I have, at least music is a very like formulaic and like mathematical thing where it's like i can sort of figure it out if i need to and i don't have to like have like a knowledge of theory i can just sort of go like well i guess this is it sounds right and this note does sound right coming after this and then i can just do

that for a long enough time that's like well now you have a song um but yeah it's it feels like i should have at some point gone like, I'm doing this a lot. Maybe I'll formally learn how to make music the right way. And I never did. Oh, really? Yeah. So can you read music or sort of? No, no.

Really? No. Yeah. It's like, I mean, I took like music classes as a kid, the ones that they make everyone do. It's like, oh, we're going to sing Hot Cross Bun cross buns today and we're gonna teach you how to read music but i immediately forgot it and like i can't read sheet music or really play piano that well it's like i can sort of like hear a song and then go like okay well if that's this key and that's the it's like i can i can learn the muscle memory of how

to play specific things but i don't know what notes i'm playing wow that's still pretty fucking great i mean i'd love to be able to pick out you know a song on the piano or something and i mean i see a guitar behind you do you play guitar a little too or yeah that's the thing is like i have a lot of instruments that i have uh just picked up being like i want to learn to play that. And oh, an instrument's very cheap. Sure, I can play that. And I play guitar because it's really just like you can learn specific chords and then kind of make it up from there. And it's not as, it seems easier than piano to me because you can just sort of, like there's not as many combinations for notes to me. And then it's like individual notes sound so much better on a guitar than they do on a piano uh but then i also recently in quarantine have been like i want to learn to play this violin

that i bought once as a bit ages ago so i've been playing a lot of violin uh and that's also fun and a lot less difficult than i thought but it's still like i'm just hearing sounds and going okay i'm gonna try and make that sound and i'm like i do not know what note this is and it's very yeah frustrating to be like uh i think i've got the sound right and then just go like all right well what am i playing it's like i don't know i don't know where the c is on the keyboard i don't know what note this is it's just mimicking i'm just mimicking things yeah yeah well i mean you do fine i mean because so much I mean, because so much of what people know you for are the musical bits, you know? Absolutely. You know, well, and some of them you're just sort of rapping to a track, right? Or you're sort of, you know, like the September thing. That's just, you know, there's no music in that other than the song is there.

I can't. No, there's like, I will edit the song to be a joke in itself, but there's no, like there's no proof of me having to perform it really. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, what did you go to college for? I mean, did you go, what were you studying? I went to college for film. I went to UT and I was, did you go, what were you studying? I went to college for film.

I went to UT and I was just sort of like, I wasn't a musical kid, but I was a very like, in the same way that I like tinkering with music, I was always just like, I want to do something with film and video and would like make very like low budget commercials for competitions with friends. And I was like, I want to figure out how to do this professionally. And then I went to college being like, all right, I'm going to figure out what in film I really like to do. And so I did that for a while and was like, oh, TV writing is stable. I'm into that.

And then I sort of like was like, OK, I want to write for TV. But I also really like anytime they gave us like a project deadline, I was like, I can work with a deadline. I can make something. And I can actually just like, I feel like motivation was always my, uh, the hardest thing for me. So just going to college and having them go, you have to make a short film in two weeks. I would get excited and go like, I can do this because I have to do this. And therefore it's like, Oh, I'm going to finally make a thing that I've wanted to make. So that was nice. When did you start feeling like,

you know, that, cause I, I always feel like there's, you know, outside of LA, I don't think there's a lot of parents who are going like, you know,

who are encouraging their kids that like yeah you can be in show business yeah you can do that it's a there's always kind of i feel like a certain level of hubris built in to when you're young and going like i'm gonna be in show business and i mean totally your folks you know in plain old texas i imagine you're not getting a lot of exposure to show business no not at all. I didn't even like, weirdly enough, I didn't get into movies or like see a lot of movies as a kid. And so it wasn't until I was an adult that I was like, I really like movies. But I, it was like my parents weren't necessarily encouraging me to do it because they were like, well, do computer science. That's very stable.

And I had friends that were like, oh, it's going to be a really hard thing for you to do. But I was still just sort of like, I don't think I'd be happy doing a lot of other things. So I'm going to try and do this. And if I fail, then I have so much time to do something else. And I can like minor in computer science or whatnot. But I was always sort of like this is the thing that even now it feels like people are seeing from me that they feel like well that's notable and I'm like well if I have like a step up now then I can sort of just keep just like learning things along the way and it's not going to be like a thing where I'm going in with no experience and I have to suddenly become like great it's like a okay I'm pretty good at this thing right now maybe I have to suddenly become like, great. It's like a, okay, I'm pretty good at this thing right now. Maybe I can just slowly become better and better. And people just go like, oh,

he's not there, but he's doing good. And I think that's like, just the idea that it wasn't me starting from zero and just one at one day out of the blue saying I want to do movies was something that I was like, well, that, that is means it's not as unrealistic as i think yeah yeah yeah were you are your folks uh are they were they like open to you kind of finding your way or are they kind of more traditional and wanted you know they were very traditional and wanted me to like do something that they could just be like, OK, well, this we know we won't have to worry about him like being having like a stable life or even a stable income when he does this. But I think they they sort of recognize that they kind of couldn't stop me from doing it at a certain point. And we're like, all right, do the thing.

But we're worried about you. And I think over time they became less worried. And now we're sort of like, well right, do the thing, but we're worried about you. And I think over time they became less worried, and now we're sort of like, well, they're still worried. They still will text me and just be like, oh, are you okay financially? I'm like, yes, I'm fine. And they're like, but you're not working. It's like, yeah, but you don't work sometimes in L.A., and that's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I do think that they, it took some coming to terms with for them, for sure, because it's not like like there's no. Even if like they did believe in me, I think they would have just had like to come to terms with the fact that like there's no day where you're like, OK, he's made it or like, oh, he, he's at the point where he's like good now because that's just not how jobs work in this industry. So I think they were always just sort of like, people really flop out of that. How are you not going to do computer science instead? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that's,

it's expecting a lot to expect parents to understand sure you know i mean because my you know even after i was on television for a while and then left the conan show and was you know i had a tv show on the air and my folks would be like well what what happens if it if it gets canceled i'm like yeah and they're like well do you have anything lined up like, I don't know. And they're like, well, do you have anything lined up? Like, no, I don't know. And they're just like, how do you live like that? Right. Every time I have a writing job, my parents are just sort of like, oh, it's only 20 weeks? But what happens afterwards? I'm like, I don't know.

I look for another one. And they're like, but then that one's done? It's a very terrifying industry to work in or to have a child working in because it's just like guaranteed, uh, like time off essentially just being like, they're going to have to try again. Yeah. And you have to get used to like just insecurity and the unknown,

you know what I mean? And it is, you know, there are times, you know, there are times when it just doesn't happen for a while and then that's when you really fucking start shitting yourself um i mean not literally i'm not i mean unless that's what pays yeah it is well we're you know it's covid times you a lot of webcam work things like that um so how how is how is the transition to college

for you i mean first of all i mean it is like you said austin is like i went i once said that austin is like sitting next to a fun gay cousin at a romney wedding at a like mitt romney family wedding because it's like you're in the middle of Texas and you get this feeling that like, wow, what a cool artistic, you know, town with, you know, it's pretty integrated and there's a lot of gay people and there's a lot of weirdos. And then it's like, yeah, but that's, it's like a little Island, you know, in the middle of a pretty conservative place.

I think that culture is starting to shift in Texas. So that's not the case. But I do think it's like a very slow shift. And like going to Austin was the best. It was it's the same thing as when a lot of people go to college and just sort of suddenly find themselves exposed to like different types of people and cultures that they weren't exposed to in their tiny town but it's just like the entire city is like that and it felt so open and like loving and embracing of all sorts of different like weird things and it felt like the perfect place to go to college and then feel like you're an adult and like it was a festival town

as well so you just felt like there's it's nonstop, like things to do and like people to see and hang out with. And it was very, it ruled. I love Austin. Yeah. I worry sometimes that like, it's like, I don't think now I'm like, oh, would I ever go and live in Austin if I didn't have to live in LA? And it's like, maybe, but I feel like so much of my love for that city is a love of what it was because of the people I knew there and like a lot of those people have moved on now so it's just like oh I guess maybe it's not the same to be there now but it's just such a special city to me uh and the transition to like from Dallas to Austin was at first it was just like, oh, like I applied to a bunch of colleges and UT was the one that I got in for film and not computer science that was also in state. So I was like, well, it's in state. So the tuition is cheaper and it's a really good school. So I was able to convince my parents to be like, yeah, go to UT. And I got lucky that the city itself was so welcoming and just like a perfect environment for

me because i didn't feel like there was this sharp turn of like ah who am i here it's just like i don't know it just felt very easy to be an adult and like just find who i was and like not be like i'm from tex Texas and have that be like, oh, what does that mean? Do you really identify as a Texan? It's like, well, I know, but I do feel a lot closer to Austin as my personality. You've been to Austin, right?

Yes, yes. I had family there for a while, so I went there for... I had in-laws that lived there, and we used to go visit a lot. No, it's ridiculous. It's great. It's great.

It's such a nice – I mean, it's too crowded now. I mean, you know, it's obviously like a smaller city that way too many people have moved to because it's so cool. And now the roads, you know, I mean, every – when my in-laws lived there, they were just like, the traffic, the traffic. And it did seem like it was just oh even when i was down there like there's it's one of those cities where it becomes like a sort of cultural saying of like stop moving here and it's just like i very quickly became one of the people's like yeah stop moving here as if i hadn't also just moved there for school but it does feel like a thing where you like you start to love the city and you get why people are moving there but you're also like well it's our thing you can't no more people are like the door is shut yeah yeah yeah did you start um what what kind of work were you doing creatively in in in school were you doing just basically classwork or were you part of any

groups or anything or it was mostly just classwork. In high school, I had done a bunch of stuff with friends where we like, there were online websites where it's like you submit creative briefs to basically go like, I want to make a commercial for this company. And it's like, if you win, you get $2,000. And we were like, that's a million dollars to a child. So I would do a lot of those. And then when I got got to college i didn't have time to do those as much but i still was like i want to make things as often as i can and that's when uh like vine and twitter sort of popped up for me and i was like oh a little video platform where my friends and i can like shoot a dumb idea in in in a, in a,

like an hour. And that's where I feel like so much of my creative energy went in that time. Cause I wasn't really doing much of anything like extracurricular wise at that time that was related to filmmaking or writing. Every so often there would be like a film club or like, like a filmmaking club that popped up on canvas or on campus but i always felt like oh it's at the most inconvenient time or place and i just can't get to it or i would get intimidated because everyone there seemed to know much more about movies than i did

because it was like ever i hadn't seen any movies until i got to college and then they would like show us movie and i was like the matrix huh but like it felt so alienating to me at the time that I was like I'm just gonna figure out my own thing that I can do without feeling like I have to be a film person with a capital F or know every single Kubrick movie and all that because I I went to film school too and there does and i mean even to this day there's people that are that for them being well i mean every there's so many people about every sort of specialty that like their knowledge of the thing gets used as like a cudgel you know just to like beat other people up and and assert some authority yeah and i definitely felt that in film school too um where people would talk about you know like talk about you know like i say like uh kubrick moves i can't remember that they're just like film

movements are being like oh just talk about it in like a theory or media way and i was just sort of like i don't know man i like this movie i don sort of like, I don't know, man. I like this movie. I don't like this movie. I don't know these movies. And it felt very much like, even though we were all in school together, it felt like there's this thing of like, you know, and like, if you know more, you care more and you're more of an authority. And I was just sort of like, I don't know anything. I don't, I can't do this then. Sorry.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and also too, it's like a lot of, a lot of these classic movies that people talk about are kind of boring. They're so boring. And it's like a lot of like theory attached to it or just being like, well, this is historically important because of this. I'm like, okay, but is it fun?

Yeah. And a lot of the times the answer is like, no, but. Yeah. Yeah. No, I went to, when I was in, I started two years at University of Illinois and then I went to film school in Chicago at Columbia College. And while I was at U of I and preparing to go to film school, I took a couple of film courses and one of them, I was a sophomore and I think it might've been a senior level

course of film theory that i was able to take and it was all like it was like let's look at films from a semiotic point of view which is like i even to this day i'm like i can't like i know that semiotics is the study of symbols but i don't know what the fuck that means it's like yeah i don't you know in this in this know, a table can become an altar like that. I just remember that being an example. Like, okay, but I don't know how you can watch a whole movie and, you know, and look at it from that point. Yeah. And I realized like in this class, and I was lost in this class, like this is a language that people learn to speak just to each other.

Like film criticism. It just seems to be like it doesn't have any relevance really on a lot of the people making movies i mean some of them i think are very you know they're getting their heads about it but i think you know it feels like this thing where like the people who do use this when they're making movies use it in a very specific way that again unless like you have people reading into it that way after the movie is done you just kind of are like well then why include that at all if it's something that you have to like study up on to even understand and then i'm like okay well i'd

rather just make a movie where like the point is very clear and it's like i i had an ex who used to always say that like writing, uh, you're not writing to sound smart or like use big words that are alienating to your audience. Cause then it's like, why are you writing at all? If you don't want people to understand it. And it's like,

why are you making films that are like purposefully, uh, obtuse and like, don't have, uh, meanings that can be understood by the most people or like by the audience that you're making it for. If you have to do research to understand your movie, it's like then you're making a movie weird. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Write a book. Yeah. You know, books are for smart people. Movies are for dumb people. Books smart. Movie dumb.

Movies dumb. TV dumb, but have more time. Yeah, dumb but easier because you're home. Now, is it in college that you start to kind of get some traction online with Twitter? And I mean, was Vine probably the first place that you kind of get some traction online with Twitter or, and I mean, was Vine, was Vine probably the first place that you kind of really started to be known outside of just like your regular circle of friends? I think it was Twitter at first for sure. And then Vine came in, like, I want to say my sophomore year of college. And it was just this fun thing that like I could both do like little mini sketches, for lack of a better word, but then also just post weird videos of my friends.

And I like that, that it was like I can do either of these things in the same way that people on Twitter were like, I can write jokes or I can just be like, I had a pizza for lunch today. And it's like, well, you can't get mad at both of them. So I just loved that. And it was like it was so fun to just have a thing that I was like, like I had friends where it was like, they weren't all in for film, but we all like enjoyed making vines and would like love to do that together. And I loved that about it, that it didn't feel like this very insular group of people who were like, we got to think about this in a film theory way. It's like, no, we just want to make a thing. And that sort of got big in a way that I didn't expect. And then it was like, when I moved to LA, I was still doing Vines, but with people who were definitely more about like, either all in on Vine or all in on film in some way. And I was like, okay, this is fun, but it's a little different. Uh,

but yeah, I think vine was the first place where it was like, or not again, Twitter was like where it started. And like, I think Twitter and vine together sort of like made Rose, my profile in a way that were, uh,

where people were like, Oh, this guy's doing interesting stuff online what's what is that like i mean because i came to twitter as a known quantity and i mean twitter is pretty much all i do but you're starting out as a college kid posting joe and you're uh and this electro lemon for people who don't know and you just start posting jokes and it just starts to grow. I mean, how does that feel?

And what do you think when you're a kid doing that? It was, it's weird, but it's also sort of like, I don't know. I think that I've always had a, like I was very much a, I think I developed a sense of humor as like a defense mechanism when I was very young. So it's always been a thing that I've been like, okay, I think I developed a sense of humor as like a defense mechanism when I was very young. So it's always been a thing that I've been like, OK, I think I'm funny and creative and can do this kind of stuff well. So like doing it on Twitter was just sort of more validation of that idea. That's like, oh, OK, I can still do this. And I am very good at like figuring out what works in certain contexts and then being like, OK, here's how a joke works here.

what works in certain contexts and then being like okay here's how a joke works here cool i can work with that and make a joke that works especially well knowing the like uh universe around this area or like this sort of like ecosystem of twitter and vine and i i think that uh it was both like it's fun because my brain is comfortable in this space and it's nice because uh i am getting credit for doing a thing that i think i'm good at uh but then it also became this thing where just sort of like there's a certain point at which uh it was like oh people start to see me as like a person or like a personality and i'm like oh that's weird I don't I don't want to be seen as someone that's like special or different from uh like just just people think of me as like I guess there's it started to feel like when people thought of me they were like

oh well Demi's like a Twitter personality and like they would say like Twitter personality or Vine personality in a way that made me think like oh oh, okay. They think that I think that I'm better than like a normal person or whatever. And that's when I was like, oh no, no, no, I don't want to do this anymore. Where it's like the, the, uh, impression of me becomes a reflection of what they think I think of myself based on what other people think of me. then I'm like oh I don't like that at all uh that was always the hard part of it just like sort of feeling like the way that people sort of like talk to me about me or even just talk about me make it seem like I think I'm special or like better than people and I'm like no I'm really like I'm just a at the time I was like I'm just'm in college. I, this is a fun thing for me to do.

That exercises, the muscles that I came to college to exercise. Uh, and there's nothing more to it than that. And now even I'm like, I just, I don't know. I had ideas for musical things and I put them on the internet and then I just kind of go on about my day doing nothing else i don't know yeah and people pass them around yeah yeah but it's got i mean when you start to get a follower count though i mean is there ever any kind of does it cause like sort of grandiose thoughts like oh shit i'm on my way you know like i have because i you know i'm engineer started to get like a fairly i mean you're a follower account while you're in college and then your vines are being watched kind of you know the way popular vines got watched while you're still in college i think the thing that kept me from ever feeling like that was just

understanding the ecosystem of both twitter and vine and recognizing like there are so many people with big follower accounts that aren't of like all right so there's not gonna be a number at which people start like knocking down my door to be like you you're gonna be the next big thing kid and i would like have friends who were popular in vine and still seem to be like doing the same thing i was and i was like okay well then this isn't gonna be like a is always just going to be a thing where it's like, if someone finds you and thinks that you're good, then maybe you'll get to do something else. But it's not like a, oh, there's a, there's a, uh, like a, a meter for when you hit this certain level, you're going to be great. And so it was like, I never, I never tried to follow the follower count or any sort of number to be like, oh, I'm about to hit the big time, even though there were times where I had one joke or one Vine that would be pretty popular. I would go like, oh, that's pretty cool.

Or I would see certain people interact with it. And I was like, OK, that does rule. But it was never like, all right, any second now I'm going to get a message from Hollywood that being like, all right, it's time to time to do the next thing. You've you've hit the big time. Yeah. But I think also just it was hard to have that idea in my head and then also not because there are times where I was just like, all right, well, I'm putting a lot of work into Vine. I feel like that should help me elsewhere but it never did and therefore i would just like not really put in a lot of work to do things elsewhere because i was like well i'm

spending all my all of my creative energy in this one place i can't really go and try to make a short film or something else like that because so it was just like it's hard to both be aware that the follower count and like all of these things doesn't mean anything. And to not think, well, I'm putting in all this work. They have to notice that I'm good eventually. Yeah. It also, I think it's so immediate. Making a short film takes for fucking ever. Yeah.

Costs a ton of money. And then be seen by no one yeah could be seen by no one whereas you can like fuck around with your friends in an afternoon and something can get seen by tens if not hundreds of thousands of people you know totally but it's also like there are tens of thousands of people doing that so it's like the ecosystem is flooded yes and there's and there's no and there's also no payoff there's no i mean you you know you don't you don't make any money at it and it just and yeah it's it's nice and it's great but i always there is i i was you know you make things like that and you feel like somebody's

making money on this like it's being watched so many times i just feel like and i don't know who's monetizing and i guess you know vine is monetizing it somehow but it always i that was that would be the hard thing for me having not grown up in an internet age or come of age in an internet age where i'm kind of used to like i mean we did improv shows but like if i was going to just make short videos it would feel like well yeah but i mean people make videos for a living and that's what i want to do for a living and it just seems you know although when you're in college did people around school know that you had a you know like it's like hey there goes that vine guy he's a vine star you know i i don't i hope it wasn't like that but i there were times

where it'd be like, oh, I meet someone, they're like, oh, yeah, I follow you on Twitter. And I'd get this immediate, like, oh, that feels weird. It still feels kind of weird where it's like meeting someone who knows you and you don't know them. It's just this sort of feeling of like, oh, they have an idea of, they have an opinion on me already. And I was like, well, it's's probably bad i don't like that but uh yeah that was it wasn't it like got more and more prevalent

over time at college but it always was the thing that i was like i don't know how to feel about this well it's just that's that person knows me and I don't know them. How do they know me? That is the root weirdness of fame. Yeah, that's like that. The your personal relationship with fame is always based on strangers knowing you. And that on a very basic human level feels weird. Especially because it's it's they know you in this conceit that you have

created online and it's oftentimes where it's like that doesn't really represent a totality of my personality and it's a very specific like facet of my personality that i think if i were to step out and just sort of look at it i think think I'd be like, I don't know that I like that person. So then a lot of times I'm just sort of like, oh, God, I hate that they know that of me and don't get to experience me as a person just regularly. Yeah. But, yeah.

Well, it's an interesting experience to get, you know, when you're still in college. I remember shortly after I got on the Conan show back in the 90s, I went back to Chicago to visit my family and I went to a store with my mom. And when we left, my mom was like, did you notice that all it was a Best Buy? I think there were like three employees following you around. And I was like, I was like, no, I didn't. And she's like, she said, yeah, like everybody in the store was staring at you. Like, and she was all excited.

And I was like, think about that statement. Everyone was staring at you. Like, even though I know why they're staring at me, you can't get over the basic fact of just feeling stared at. Yeah. No one, you know, I shouldn't say no. And most people, some people love being stared at i'm not one of them and it just it's not a natural kind of feeling yeah there are times where i feel like i'm being stared at or watched and i it always is this thing of like is it because they recognize

me or is it because i am like weird or like something else that it's like i should be cognizant of and i'm always always like, it's never comforting. It's never. And I also am like, well, I'm not famous, really. I'm not known enough that like I should be like, oh, there's another person staring at me. So I'm just like, it just makes me feel bad and weird. And I'm like, if it is someone that knows me, I'm like, just come up to me and say, I know you and walk away or something.

Right, right, right, right. Yeah. And then I started thinking about like, there are times where someone does eventually come up to me and I immediately am just like, how long have they seen me? Did I do anything weird in that time? Yeah.

But yeah. Was I compulsively pulling at my crotch? Oh no. Was I air drumming? Did they watch me air drum an entire song? No nose picking. Well, when you're done with college, I mean, you come to L.A., right? I mean, was that pretty fast?

So my college has this program where they, for your last semester of school, you can go out to Los Angeles and do like an internship and take classes at like a remote center in L.A. And I took that advantage of that program. So I moved out to LA with like 20 other students from UT. So it was a very easy transition to just be like, oh, I still know people. And like, we have friends that are all interested in the same thing. And a lot of us live together. And it was very easy in that. And then I also was like, okay, well I am still also in LA now. And I'm like, I had an internship at Red Hour,

which has been Stiller's production company. And so it was like, I got to work in comedy and got to surround myself with people in comedy who pretty quickly learned that I was doing things online. And we're like, okay, this guy knows and is interested in comedy. He's someone that we should stay in touch with, which was always nice.

Yeah. But, yeah, it was a pretty easy transition. Was the internship set up through school? No, it was like I had to go and find the internship. Oh, I see. Yeah. And was that – was it classified ads uh i i think it was like there was a website online where it's just like entertainmentcareers.net or something and i just

was like oh i see just shotgun approach like i gotta write a thing and send it to all of these places uh so it's like i applied to 100 different internships and like uh there were so many ones where it's like i get a response and i got so excited just be like oh my god i'm gonna intern for jason reitman oh my god i'm gonna interview all these places and it was like uh i got very lucky with red hour and uh just was like as soon as i they were like well we can offer you internship i was like yeah no i'm not gonna get better than this. Yes. Let's do it. Yes. Um,

and that's Ben Stiller's company for people that don't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so you became best friends with Ben Stiller right away. Inseparable. I was like, buddy, you gotta do a movie where,

uh, you play a fake war, a fake soldier. It was my idea. Tropic Thunder was me. No. Um, but I, it was my idea Tropic Thunder was me no um but I it was very like it was truly like so great and like it was such a small team that I felt immediately like oh I'm gonna get to know all of these people yeah uh and it was yeah I still am in touch with a few of them and it's

very nice and at the time it was really just me like doing like readings of scripts and being like here's my coverage on this script or uh just sort of like surfing the net for things that they needed or like going on supply runs every so often i'd get to like be on set for like a web series they were doing and i'd be like this is where it is this is where the juice this is what i want to be doing, baby. But it was fun. Were they working on any features while you were there? I think they had

just finished up Walter Mitty and it hadn't premiered, but it was like they were doing all the marketing and stuff for that. But I mean, would you have gotten to work on movies like on set on those or probably not? I can't imagine. Although there was I do remember there was one time I don't remember what we were doing, but there was something that Ben Stiller had to do on a like I want to say the Universal lot and they needed me to go and deliver things to him and I was just they were like yeah you're just gonna have to hang around for a bit during the day and I was like oh so they're shooting something on this lot and they need me to stick around to essentially be like an assistant of sorts but I was like oh god I wish that it was

a movie they were filming because then I would at least get to be on the set and just watch them like shoot this movie but I don't think it was I think it was like a series of uh interviews or something i don't even know yeah yeah yeah so when that's done i mean are your folks okay with you moving to la or they you know they were stressed about it but at least while i was doing it through school it was the kind of thing where uh they were like well this is still school so it's not that bad uh but shortly after it was when uh they got really worried because i didn't have a job in la for the first four months that i was there and i was just like crashing on friends couches and uh and this is after the internship yeah yeah yeah and at a certain

point they were like just come home and do interviews from home. And I, I had an interview for, I think it was like to work on the like video editing team for like NFL programming. And I had a phone interview with them and they were like, cool, can you come in tomorrow? And I was like, I'm in Plano, Texas. I can't. And they were like, oh, oh, that's a shame. Sorry. And I was like, okay, I need to go back out to LA because I can't do interviews from Plano from my bedroom at home and so they're like okay yeah go back out there but then again it was like the four months of me just being around uh and I was like that's when I I I'd always really liked like visual effects and like typography and just like motion graphics and stuff and so I was like okay I'm gonna make a

a reel of me having done that stuff in the past and my ability to do that stuff. And maybe I'll get like a job at a VFX house or like some production studio, just being able to do like typography for them or whatnot. And that'll be like a foot in the door. And I did that for four months, just like going out for interviews, being like, I want to do VFX stuff. I really like VFX. Let me work in that field. But eventually the job that I got was as an office manager at this animation studio, ADHD, uh, which doesn't exist anymore, but it was like an animation studio that did a bunch of, uh, cartoons for Fox, like Lucas Bros, moving co and ax cop. I think they did. Uh, and my, I was just like the guy who got stacks and like set up computers and like offices for people and was just like supposed to know everyone and just be the like overseer

of the building, which was a weird first job for me. Uh, but it was like, I was like, I'm around animators and like, there are writers that work here and that's good enough for me. Yeah. And how long did that take how long was that i was there for six months uh-huh yeah and then what happens to have you move on uh so after that i the people that i had met uh while working at red hour went over to funny or die and uh funny or die was putting together a digital team for their tv show at midnight and they were like we know that you do video stuff uh and like are like very knowledgeable and popular online

would you be interested in uh coming to do like vines and media stuff for us over at at midnight and i was like oh hell yeah absolutely um but they also didn't have like a very like concise idea of what they wanted to do so i got there and it was like a team of four of us and they were just like oh we got two guys who are very good at visual effects and 3d we got one animator and we got you the like social media video uh writing guy and they were just sort of like i don't, we'll figure out what you guys do eventually. But just if you have any ideas for content we can put online, make it. And so we were just like, it was just like a year of us just sort of being like, we have an idea for a video.

Let's do that. Or like, oh, we have an idea for a Vine. Let's do that. Or we have this thing that requires Chris Hardwick to come into our office and like do something with us real quick. Let's do that. And it was just like very unstructured, but in a way that worked so well for us and like we were just like it's just us getting the fuck around and make cool things and that was a very fun place to be it was just a playground and yeah that's yeah that wow that is an amazing opportunity to

be as young as you were and as new to this to get to be able – because, you know, I mean, you don't get to always noticed like the people that got creative say were like the ad agency people. And I mean, obviously if you're like, you're doing a Wheaties ad, the Wheaties people get to say it was the agency people and like the director. And that, you know, we're all in film school thinking like, we're all artists. We're all going to get, you know, we're all in film school thinking like, we're all artists. We're all going to get, you know, personal expression. It's like, no, no, you'll probably, odds are just in the numbers game, odds are you'll be a script supervisor and you'll keep track of the script.

And that'll, you know, that's a good job. And you're good at, you get good at it. But creative say is a very minimal thing. So for you to get to do that. And there again, I think that's thanks to people. They obviously saw your work. You had a reel online that is easily perusable. Totally.

And I think it also helped that they were just sort of like, we need to be on social media, but we don't really know in what capacity or like what things to do. So we're just going to hire people who can do a lot of different things and then let them go. Well, what do you guys see on social media that you want to do? And we got lucky because we would just be like, oh, we should do something about this thing that's in the news or about this thing that happened on the show. And we would just like go for it. And we were very like adept and able to do things quickly. So we would just kind of be like, here's a video based on this thing that happened in the news this morning. Here's this video that happened based on this thing that happened on the show.

And it was just like we were able to call in like people from all over the office to work with us. And it was just sort of like it was like we have an idea and we'd send it to me like uh yeah i guess that works go for it and then we make him like okay well you worked so hard on it yeah put it up online and like we just it worked and we got lucky we like the creative team won two emmys from that digital pod and we were like oh this rules yeah it was great um does that make you an emmy winner technically but my name was never like i didn't get an emmy so no that's like for my resume i'm gonna say i'm an emmy winner part of an emmy winning team exactly you can say that yeah yeah uh did you work at at midnight or at at uh at uh funny or

die like where you was at at midnight it was Midnight. Yeah, we were like right next to the stage. Okay. And yeah, because that's a very, you know, again, that's sort of tailored to the bite-sized digital world. That show was so like just about like. So of the internet. Yeah. And so of the internet, obviously,

because it basically was the Twitter game show, you know, and it was like, I mean, having been on it, it was you write tweets. They give you premises and you write tweets. Totally. Is this like, are you still able to keep up your own creativity on your own stuff, on your own vines and stuff? Or are you now using it all for work it felt like i was able to keep up my own creativity uh which was very it felt almost like weirdly i was able to keep up my own creativity and supplement it with things from work it was like i think i was in a very particular uh like a very specific place with at midnight where it was

like, I was doing the things that probably needed the least amount of work in that pod of four of us. Cause it was like animation takes a while, uh, 3d and visual effects can take a while. But I was just like, if I had a video idea that we could shoot and we could like get a team together for it, it was like, cool, go off and shoot it. go off and shoot it uh and if it takes forever it takes forever and if it doesn't take forever it doesn't take forever and in the meantime and be like i have ideas for things that i'd like to do and i started doing i think i started getting back into a lot of musical stuff then like tinkering around and being like oh mashups are fun but i can't do mashups on uh at midnight i guess i can put these on my Twitter or something or like figuring out other vine ideas that

were like, this won't work for at midnight, but it is something that I want to do. And my friends will help me do. So I'll just do it with them at the office and then post it on my own. Like they were all happy to do that. We were all just like, we just love making these things. We're happy to make things. If you have an idea that you're like, yeah, I'm just going to do this for myself. They'd be like, yeah, all right, go for uh it was it was great as long it was like as long as it isn't

getting in the way of other people doing shit then let's do it yeah yeah um uh what was i gonna say oh uh you you go from sort of doing these, from doing videos into doing podcasts. Like that you started to kind of do that transition. Well, I also want to ask, is that how, is working on At Midnight, is that when you really sort of find a creative community here in LA? Were you able to do that before?

I mean, because, you know, on this show, people always end up talking about kind of what has, I've ended up calling finding your tribe, you know, like really finding your group of people that you can kind of blossom in. And I'm wondering if that was, if that, if that happened at, at midnight, I mean, how do you come from Texas and all of a sudden start having a bunch of cool creative friends? Cause I want to know, I still don't have many. And I think it's, it's always hard. Uh, I think that at midnight was definitely very helpful in doing that, but I think that, uh, the podcast thing started just before at midnight when I was still an office manager

at ADHD. I had met someone who knew of me through Twitter and Vine. And I went to I was going to UCB shows like all the time. It was like just the only thing that I did in my free time. Just because I was like, I don't know too many people, but I want to be in comedy so bad. I'm going to go see other people do comedy. And there was one time I went to a show where my name was drawn for something, something, and someone called out Electro Lemon, or like they wooed when someone said Electro Lemon,

and I was like, why does this person know who I am? And then after the show, they like hit me up, I'm like, oh, that was me. I just, I know of you from Twitter and Vine. I think you're very funny. And so we became friends. And then at one point he had posted on Facebook that he wanted to do a podcast about Gilmore Girls since it was, they were going to put all the old episodes up on Netflix. And I was like, that sounds fun, which is something that I just sort of did on a whim because I'd never seen Gilmore Girls, but I was just sort of like, I bet I would totally watch that show and talk about it. I bet I'd, I would totally watch that show and talk about it. And, uh, that was my friend, Kevin T. Porter, who, uh, we be like, we truly didn't know each other very well before doing that podcast, but on a whim, we were just like, yeah, let's do the podcast. Let's see what that

would be like. And, uh, our chemistry worked together very well. And, uh, we just got lucky because it was like, that was so much. My creative voice was just in doing that podcast. And it was like, I was able to talk with people that I would have never met otherwise. And I was able to have this sort of space where I was, I was allowed to be comfortable and creative, but it was like reaching an audience of people that it's like, Oh, nothing else I do has this level of an audience because nothing else I do is found on the back of this massively popular TV show that no one's talking about anymore.

So it's just like tapping into an audience of people that aren't really like it's like just lying inactive almost. And so through that, I was able to sort of like develop my own creative voice, but also meet so many people and just go like, oh, I like this person. Oh, I like this person. Oh, I like this person. Oh, I'd love to hang out with these people and just figuring out what I was able, like what I liked doing, what I was able to do in a more concentrated manner. And then that plus at midnight, I think made it made me go like, oh, I love creating things with these people. I want to create more things with these people.

And it's just sort of like, I guess with the podcast, it was more taking a chance on a thing that I didn't know how it would be, but I got a vibe of like, I like working with this person. So let's just see what it's like to work with this person. And with at midnight, it was just sort of like realizing that I worked well with these people and we had very similar tastes and could hang out in a way that didn't feel like work all the time so I got lucky with that did um uh you started to do what was it in Gilmore guys that you started to do live versions of the podcast yeah yeah we would do and you what you weren't a live performer up to that point really not at all what was What was that like?

Was it terrifying to go do it the first time? I think the weird thing about it is that I was never too terrified. And I think that's, like, I was never, like, a performer. I didn't do, like, theater or improv or any of those things. Like, I was never, like, a stage person. But I felt like I was pretty comfortable on a stage and I think it helps that when doing Gilmore Guys it was always like performing for an audience that knows us and is just like sort of it's like if it's like if you were to do improv but like everyone there already loves you and yeah I get it yeah it's like you can just be

comfortable being yourself and therefore it was, my first stage experiences were just being like, yeah, I can just be myself and you guys are already cool with that. Right. Surrounded by love. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. You go out to a, yeah, it's not like you're doing standup at an industrial job, you know.

Right. For all of the, you know, account all of the you know accountants that totally and it was also whatever it was also free form that like there was no there was very little prep that i needed to do besides just watching the episode and just being like okay so i've seen the episode i'm just gonna say things that i would say anyway but in front of people so i get an immediate feedback of like i liked what he said and so it's just very easy to develop a voice of like, what do people like of me? And what am I good at doing when it's just like doing the thing that I already do?

And I'm like, I'm comfortable with this, but then getting like the instant feedback of like people laughed at that. Good. Yeah. Yeah. As that audience grows. And as you're sort of, you know, and as you kind of, what, where do you think it's going for you at that time?

Like, do you think like, I'm going to be a professional gilmore girls uh commentator for the rest of my life or you know no that was actually one of the reasons that i was like i think i need to get away from this because i i realized that like as much as it was helping me connect to people uh that i really admired and like i i don't think i would have gotten my writing job on the good place if i hadn't uh done gilmore guys i do think that there was a point at which it was like oh this feels like it's just building in on itself uh where it's like there's a there's a ceiling that i can hit with this podcast and it's just like it's always going to be people want you to talk about different

media or like people want you to talk about gilmore girls specifically or when i do other things like people will just sort of try to tie that into gilmore girls or try to tie it into you commenting on media and i was like oh i don't want to do that because i want to create media and also i'm not super attached to gilmore girls it's like i like it but i don't i don't want my life to be it and i don't want my life to be it. And I don't want my life to be like, now he's talking about Buffy or now he's talking about this other thing. So I was just sort of like, I think I'm going to step away from this and try to make my own things and try to figure out how to be creative and not just sort of like a commentator.

Yeah. But I think that was hard for me at one point because it felt like my attitude around the podcast became negative just because I resented what it was doing in my life. And just feeling like I don't want to be like I don't want my only claim to fame to be people are like you're the Gilmore guys guy. And it's like but I I've been working on stuff for so long that's like just original and of my own self. But I've been working on stuff for so long that's like just original and of my own self. It feels weird to like have this one thing come in and be like, forget everything you've ever done. You are now the guy who comments on other media. And I'm like, that sucks.

I don't want that at all. So I think stepping back from it also made me go like, okay, I don't want to seem like I have a negative connotation of what I did because I liked doing the podcast I did it for three years and I loved it yeah yeah yeah no I that's I mean I'm that's a good instinct to have because I mean one of my grouchy old man complaints about a lot of what is current comedy is that it it's exactly what you. It's commentary on other things. It's not, you know, and I mean, and even I think sometimes, you know, fan culture, you know, can be, it's just distracting that everything has to be a reference to some other kind of totemic item of culture you know like i like i you know when stranger things first came out and they all the talk was about you know that you know as if there were like

easter eggs throughout the whole thing of that shots just like the shot from poltergeist and that shots just like the shot from i don't know fucking you know nightmare on elm street yeah or whatever and i just was like what about making new stuff like yeah what about what about not having to put in and and and also something that takes you out of the actual experience of watching the show about this world and these characters because you always got to keep an eye out for when they're gonna you know be ripping off robert zemeckis uh it's just making professional love letters just being like it's not really a story it's just a love letter to this genre it's like okay i don't i like the thing too but i don't want to watch someone else like it and then it's

just a snake eating its own tail. It's like a navel gazing. It folds in on itself and in on itself and in on itself until it's not really anything. So, I mean, good for you is basically what I'm saying. Thank you. Good for you. And then I went on to make musical parodies. Oh, yeah, that's right.

Oh, shit. I take back everything I said. You're a hack. No, I mean, it's great. Because you had another podcast, too, then after that, didn't you? Yeah, I did a podcast after that called Punch Up the Jam, which was half musical commentary, half writing songs. Yeah. Because you punched up popular songs. You're like, yes. Yeah, yeah. up the jam which was it was half musical commentary half writing songs but yeah it was like punched you punched up popular songs you're like yes yeah yeah yeah it was a very funny idea it was it was

an idea that we both loved and we knew it was going to be a lot of work but i left because i was like okay it is a lot of work but it's more than i thought it would be and i can't do this every week and also do other things outside of this. But it was like, yeah, we, we were just like, what if we,

uh, talk about popular songs and the lyrics within them and just sort of like get, get like very, uh, overly semantic about what they are. And then we were like, we fixed the song and just have like either a parody or like a quote unquote

fix of the song that we like rewrote it or like made it different in some fun way and that was a blast and i think is like still a very good it was like the it was a good mix of commentary and creation that i think was something that a lot of people wouldn't have done because it was a lot of work but also it was just like a very good uh just sort of like microcosm of all of my talents in a way that I was like, I get to do the things that I like to do. But I'm still in the field that people are like, oh, well, I like when he's the commentary guy. Yeah, yeah. Did at what point do you do you go to work for The Good Place? you uh do you go to work for uh the good place uh is that the first kind of

narrative comedy that you worked on yeah totally uh it was it was the reason i left at midnight actually i had i the first like writing job i ever got was i wrote for i think the 2015 that seems so long ago uh 2015 like mtv video music video music awards. Uh, and I was like, that was great. And it was like, sort of just being in a writer's room like that was the instant gratification of being like, this is exactly what I want to do and what I think I'm good at doing. And then, uh, I got to meet, uh, writers for parks and rec through doing, um, uh, Gilmore guys. And they had, uh had needed a new staff writer for the new show they were going to work on, The Good Place. And they put my name in the hat.

And I met with Mike Schur and hit it off. And I had an interview on Monday. And on Wednesday, they were like, cool, can you come in next Monday? That's when the show starts. And it was like that weird thing that sometimes happens in LA where you're at a job and you just got to go like, uh, so I need to leave this week.

Sorry. I got a job. Yeah. Yeah. I know I've been here for a year and you guys are genuinely like my family, but I am gone. And it was like, they all understood and they were like very happy for me,

but it was just such a weird like transition. And also I didn't know what the show was. I didn't't like i was afraid to ask questions about the show in the interview and it was like going so well she's like i don't care like it's mike sure i'll do whatever he wants to make and so like i like loosely looked up things and i was like oh it could be one of these two shows that is in the news and the first day of the show i was like i still don't know what this is but i'm going to work on a mike Schur show with all these people that I admire. Let's do it. And it was like on that first day, they're like, all right, so here's what the show is.

And I was like, oh, this is nuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is. It's like among the strangest, well, the most unique kind of concepts for a sitcom and like, I don't know. Yeah. Maybe ever. For like a network TV show. It was very like, I sitcom and like, I don't know. Yeah. For like a network ever. Yeah. TV show.

It was very like, I instantly was like, this is so bold. I can't wait to see how this works. I was also like skeptical for a lot of it. I was just sort of like, I think a lot of this is going to get toned down by the network, but I'm doing my job.

So let's go. Yeah. Yeah. Were you there? Were you there for the full run of it? I was only there for the first season. Oh, for the first season.

And did you, did you move on or did they, I mean, you know, it's an awkward question. I mean, it was very much they did not pick me up for the second season, which I don't blame. I was not great in that room. It was a lot of anxiety and a lot of, like, ADHD I didn't know how to deal with. And just sort of, like, me trying was it was a hard room to have my first ever job in um but just for what reason yeah well it's like it was a lot of anxiety and it was like it's sort of it's like getting close to your dream job but it's like diving to the deep end it's being like all right here's a very tightly structured show that you have to figure

out how to work in with all these people who have been doing this for years and have worked together and it was like a lot of anxiety and it uh caused a lot of issues for me that i didn't fully understand and was just sort of like trying to ignore and that was a stressor and it was just like i wasn't a good fit in the room and it was more like it felt a lot like i was on a ride-along for a lot of it just being like, oh, this is so cool. I'm so happy to be here. I don't know when to pop in and like suggest something or when to like be quiet or not.

And so it was just like, yeah. But yeah, it might. I mean, there is something to getting a, you know, to learn, to learn the ins and outs of that kind of, cause there is, you're absolutely right. There's like, you have to learn how to and outs of that kind of, because there is, you're absolutely right. There's like, you have to learn how to behave in a writer's room. And you have to learn the sense of whether you're talking too much, whether you're talking too little, like who you can talk over and who you can ignore and who you have to listen to. And that probably, you probably would have been better if you got on some sort of just like

plain old sitcom, regular, you know. Yeah. You know, joke, joke, joke kind of thing. Because that is, yeah, that's a very unusual show. And, you know, and a room full of heavy hitters too. It's got to be intimidating. Yeah. Yeah.

But I still was like so happy to be there. And I'm like, God, I can't believe that I wrote on The Good Place. And it's still a intimidating. Yeah. Yeah. But I still was like, so happy to be there. And I'm like, God, I can't believe that I wrote on the good place. And it's still a thing that like, uh, people like, that's what people mentioned when,

uh, like I have a meeting where it's like, you wrote on the good place, right? And it's like, yes, I did. I did write on the good place.

Thank you for, uh, weren't you part of an Emmy winning Emmy award winning team of, uh, animators? Oh yes, I was. Yes.

That's yes. It's so interesting. you bring that up. Twice we won two Emmys, yeah. Was it tough? Did you have a sense that you were going to get picked up? Oh, I knew. I definitely knew. But it was the kind of thing where it was like,

if I get picked up, I'm going into overdrive. I'm going to fucking figure out what's going on and be better in that second season. But I knew I wasn't to fucking figure out what's going on and like be better in that second season. But I, I knew I wasn't. And that was like a thing where I was like, ah,

this sucks and will crush me for a while. And still I'm like, there are times where I'm like, ah, I, I really fucked up in that room, but it's like, they were,

Mike sure was so magnanimous about it and like gave me recommendations when other shows approached him about me. And that was very nice. And then I got to work on the next show I worked on was a show over at Marvel called New Warriors, which was it didn't end up going. But it was like a live action like superhero series that was very superheroes. That's rare. Yeah, it was one of the first. Wow. Superheroes? That's rare. Yeah, it was one of the first. Wow, superheroes.

They should do more with superheroes. That's what I said in the meeting. I was like, interesting. So they're people, but special. I get it. And they have problems like you or me? Yes. And they wear pajamas and capes?

Interesting. But it was... Yeah, I worked on that show for a year and wees. Interesting. It was, uh, yeah, I worked on that show for a year and we like wrote 10 episodes. I got to write two episodes. We shot a pilot that Disney was like, we love this. We can't wait to see it. And free form was like,

we don't like it. And then they were like, well, don't worry. We'll put it on Disney plus. And we were like, that's at least two years away. That means the show is eventually is essentially shelved yeah yeah so

i was like all right well well and then you went on you could you kind of like dipped into uh our little late night world with james corden you were there for a year was it yeah i was there for a year i i left corden almost a year ago exactly actually uh-huh yeah i it was like uh i was hired because of my musical online stuff and i was like a good voice for to do that on the show uh but i think i also i kind of knew i i wasn't a late night person uh i don't think i'm great at writing to like someone else's specific voice and i don't think that like as much as it's like i can it just feels like it's not the uh challenge or like thing that i really loved like i always loved narrative writing more than i like joke writing so i was just sort of like i think i'm gonna leave after about a year but it was such a great show and everyone

there is so awesome and i love them all but it was like a i don't know is this for me yeah yeah a lot of it yeah it's well it can be i can i mean i can tell you you know as someone in their 50s and you know they're well i mean now now i feel like i'm retired like i've me and my dog have just retired to a quiet life in a house you know somewhere but um i definitely there have been thoughts in the last few years of my life where i'll be in the middle of rehearsal and like and i feel like i am 50 whatever years old and here i am thinking up bits like i'm talking i'm sitting around here with other you know like grown adults who have children and mortgages and we're just trying to figure out like how to best you know finish up

this bit about you know a rabid wolf that you know that attacks a cake shop or whatever you know like and it just at times it does feel like wow this is really silly silly stuff to be doing with your time i feel like everyone hits that sort of space or like hits that sort of mindset in comedy though where it's like i think it just takes so much longer on a narrative thing because you don't feel like you're going what are we doing here until you've like developed like a world but with late night it's like well here's the world it's our world and go and i think it's just like you get to a point where you're just kind of like doing doing a lot of the same thing a lot and it just sort of feels like i i'm already too much of a doing a lot of the same thing a lot person so to go into a world where it's just that's how it works i think was not the best thing for me to do yeah it feels weird because it's like i don't want to sound like i'm shitting on late night i was just like like i was i still think that cordon was such

a great place and like i i love the people who work there and there were times where i was like i cannot believe i get to do this or i can't believe I get to make like Eric Idle sing this song that I wrote. But then other times it's just sort of like, is this where I want to be? Yeah. Well, and you're young and, you know, you do know the when i when i first left the conan show back in 2000 it was exactly that it was just that i've been and at that point it had been seven years and i just felt like i was doing the same thing just doing and i was i mean now when you you know especially when you have children doing the same thing becomes like – that becomes like, oh, boo-hoo.

You got to do the same thing. Go make a check. You got to earn a living. it does get hard, you know, when you get used to kind of burning creative juices and, you know, and putting product out there of your own stuff and always, especially if you're somebody that wants to challenge yourself, it can get really stifling and you've got, and, you know, you just need to kind of make that break and make that change. So did you have anything to leave to or did you just? No.

Yeah. I had been working. I had like had personal projects and things that I wanted to develop outside of Cordon that I was like, well, I'll get to do these. And I went to – I was dating someone who lived in New Zealand at the time. So I went and lived in New Zealand for two months. Nice. Which was exciting and terrifying just because it's like, all right, I'm going to,

you're the only person I know in this entire country. I'm going to spend a lot of time with you and no one else. And we were both like, oh, it's, it's kind of like how a lot of relationships I'm sure are in quarantine right now. We're just like, do something else, Do something with your time. So it was like, all right, I'm going to go for a walk in New Zealand. And it was all just like me trying to figure out

what to do aside from like, there was a movie that I really wanted to write. And I was just like, I have to finish writing this movie. It's what I'm in New Zealand for aside from spending time with Maddie. But I was like, I'm going to, I'm here to write this movie. I'm going to finish writing this movie. It's what I'm in New Zealand for aside from spending time with Maddie. But I was like, I'm going to, I'm here to write this movie. I'm going to finish this movie and I'm going to have a thing that I returned to the U S with being like, I've done this. And, uh, it took so long to do, but I eventually did finish the movie and went back to the U S. And then I was like, all right, well, what do I do now? And I just before that, I had started doing this monthly show at Dynasty Typewriter called Everything's Great. That was just like a live comedy show.

And that was my creative output for a lot of the time. Then I was just like, all right, I'm just going to figure out a new thing to do every month of the show. And so it was like I'd write a new song or I'd write a weird powerpoint presentation bit or like doing all these things but it was like i was like here's the thing i could do month to month what what do i what am i doing for my future though like and that's i think still kind of where i am yeah yeah did is it weird to you to have done all these, you know, and I'm making air quotes like legit showbiz things. And that really probably the biggest impact you've made is is with Vines and stuff online. That's just kind of like, you know, free social media stuff. I mean, is that really? Yeah, it's very weird to me.

social media stuff i mean is that totally yeah it's very weird to me and it feels like i'm uh it feels like because that i i'm always fighting for legitimacy in my own eyes but also in other people's eyes sometimes because i'm always just sort of like i think i also spread myself very thin in that i do a lot of things where it's like i've done this and i've done this and i've done this and i've done all these things and then when I meet with someone I'm just sort of like what are they meeting with me because of yeah if it's like oh we're meeting with because we loved you on vine I'm like that's vine has been gone for like seven years now I've been doing a lot of other stuff but okay and uh it's always just sort of this thing where like I I'm like oh one day something's gonna happen for me that feels notable and people just go like oh the vine guy got a tv show or whatever and i'll just be like

that that's gonna feel crushing just being like that's how people think of me in a certain way but it also just feels like even when i first got in a writer's room i was like i feel i'm gonna have to fight for legitimacy here because people just go like he's not supposed to be here he's like an internet he's like those he's one of the kids who uh got popular because he was on vine and vine isn't real comedy or whatever right uh yeah and it's like it's like you did makeup tutorials or something like yeah right and i i get that because i think i also still mentally put a lot of people in that box of like, oh, they they're like, oh, I'm a YouTuber. I'm like, OK, I know what that means. Right. No, a lot of people like a lot of good work goes care about it therefore it's not real yeah but uh it is a weird thing to sort of but i also think i think i have a very weird relationship to the things that i've done as a whole where it's like everything i've i i'm a very much like i did this

thing time to move on kind of person and i'm always like in pursuit of like I just want to write and like direct I just want to make things and because of that it's like well I haven't gotten a chance to do that so everything I've done in the past is just like nothing and therefore it'll be like people really love this one thing you did and I'm like oh they're going to think of me as the

that guy I don't want that I want to be a writer and it's like I have a very contentious relationship with my own work, despite it being like, well, people like that work. It's like, yeah,

but it's not what I want to do. So I'm mad about it. And it's like, yeah, I would tell you as an old person, uh, cause I can relate. And I'm,

and I, I think I have a, whatever that disease is that I completely discount and write off anything that I'm good at easily, you know? So it's like, if I, you know, people, you know, they compliment different things that I do well, that I just have always been able to do well and that don't take a lot of work. And I'm like, nah, yeah, well, fuck that. That doesn't, and it's, and I, and I think too, I tend to look back on a lot of the

things that I did and think, well, yeah, but I mean, not a lot of thought went into it. It was just a goof and it just kind of, you know, was like this or, you know, I feel conflicted about that because that one thing I worked on that people are complimenting me on i didn't have a good time on it and and it's all like it's a and i understand how that can be an engine a creative engine to somebody who is starting out and and challenging themselves to do and i mean not starting out but but a person that isn't like you know that that still is trying to find their their voice yeah and i you know and it's ironic to me to say that because anyways i feel like i'm still trying to find my voice like the notion of like what do i want to say with what i do i don't fucking know yet and i'm still you know as old as i am but i do know and i work hard now trying to be a little bit nicer about the things that I've done in the past, like

to myself, like be a little bit more like, like it's a huge, huge thing to me that the Conan show means to young comedy people. What other, like what David Letterman meant to me, you know, and that I, and that like I, you know, there are people that will say to me, you and Conan helped form my sense of humor and they're now doing comedy professionally. And that's a really, I mean,

I can't even imagine anything kind of more soul enriching that I could have done with this silliness. Absolutely. So, yeah, but I mean, because, and also, also your stuff is fucking hilarious. It's really clever.

And I, in preparation for this, to go to your website, which is just demiadijouibay.com, right? I think it's demiadijouibay dot b e as if you were spelling my name and then the period is i don't know oh okay at any rate it's well the link to it is is on wikipedia it's got all your bits and if you just if you listener out there want to just enjoy yourself for i mean shit you could spend a long time on there just looking at these great bits. It's incredibly funny, inventive stuff, not only musically, but cinematography-wise, great camera tricks, really great stuff, really fun stuff that you should be very proud of. And that, you know, I mean, if I had more power, I'd just give you a job doing something just based on that, you know? What's the biggest one you ever did, you think?

The biggest video? Yeah, like video or thing that you did. I think the first thing I ever knew, you came to my attention by the thing where you left DVDs of Click in your folks' house. Yeah. That was the funniest fucking thing ever. That was the funniest fucking thing ever. Which is so funny because it was genuinely an accident from a video that I made of Vine where it was just like me dancing to the song Click by Kanye. And then I say, why do I have 57 DVDs of Click?

Which is just the amount of DVDs that would fit on that shelf. Right. And they were fake. They were like just color copied fakes or did you buy? Yeah, they were literally just like i printed out the label and then put them in the dvd covers for the vine and uh the vine was like whatever people were like oh that's so funny and then i just went away and i went uh i think i went back to college for the school year and then i came back in november and they were all still there and i was like my parents haven't mentioned this once have they seen it and then i took a photo and i was like they i literally just said the truth like

i left these dvds here and they have not mentioned a single thing about it and uh are they still there no i removed them at one point and also uh there was a point at which my sister uh saw that the tweet was popular and then like told my parents and they were like, Oh yeah, we saw that. We didn't know what that was about. So I was just like, Oh, but what difference does it make? Yeah.

And they were just like, well, not going to mention it. Oh, strange. I think they got very used to just being like, ah, Demi's doing something.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well now, um, now, Oh,

I, I didn't let you finish. What do you think? You're sort of like, I think the September videos are the thing that people are like that's what dimmy does every year that i gotta know but then it's also like i do a lot of the uh the songs that like the end credit raps i really like still and people think they're great uh i think just the the conceit that i came up with for them just like shooting

them as if it's like a thing i stumbled across across is something that makes it very fun for me yeah but those are pretty well liked yeah yeah well what are you gonna do when this is all over i don't mean this podcast i mean you know i was like being being able to leave the house you know that kind of i gotta walk my dog i gotta yeah nap again um i i don't know i i really like before this quarantine even i was just sort of like i get very paralyzed by the idea of making things myself but then it's like i'll make like videos and all these the things that I make online are ideas that I have a million ideas and these are the ones that I can do on my own and these are the ones that I can do without the help of other people because I'm always just sort of like I

I don't know where to start when I'm working with other people I don't know how to put a crew together to make the things that I want to make or it's like too high concept and I'm like okay well this takes a lot of work I'll just wait for someone to be like we want to give you a million dollars go uh but I'm also like I have so many things that it's like, like, I just wrote this movie that I want to make, but I'm like, I'm gonna end up having to sell a script, because no one will let me direct it, so I just need to get some directing experience that I can be like, here's proof that I can do this shit, and I was like, I want to make a short film, or I want to make a, just direct music videos for someone, and so I'm like, I want to make a short film or I want to make a direct music videos for someone.

And so I'm like, I need to focus on that being the next thing that I do concretely. Yeah. It's like work for myself because it's like that's where I want to be. And I can't just wait and hope that someone goes like, do you want to do this? So it's like I think that's the next thing for me either figuring out a short film that i would love to make that feels like it's within my voice and isn't just sort of like a here's something yeah uh or just figuring out someone who makes music that would love for me to make a video for them and like planning that throughout the quarantine and then when quarantine ends being like cool let's shoot this thing yeah figuring out how to shoot it within quarantine i don't know so yeah i mean i that's what i kind of like i feel like the universe is put on pause and i heard i find myself thinking like well what

happens at the other end of this and and i mean i don't mean with the world i mean what do i do like and in the notion too you know so hunkered down here and i'm thinking like where's the big creative output that i should have so I have all these things ready to go when I'm out of this and that's not happening because I'm not even you know it's hard to think that way because it's just sort of like you don't have an

end date for when this is going to be so it's like you just keep making things you're just supposed to have like a time to be ready to go I've been like doing little things here and there and it's like every every like three weeks i'll just be like i'm gonna pick up this new thing and it was like i did violin and then i was sewing masks and then i started uh painting and now i'm baking a lot and i'm just sort of like i i need to channel this all into one thing that i will actually be able to like

work with after this is all right yeah like a screenplay like that's i'm always like where's the screenplay and then i'm like well i could also like slow braise some veal chops you know like yeah one's more immediately satisfying yes and one is supposed to be satisfying in the long run i finished a screenplay at the beginning of this and i'm just sort of like i shouldn't have to do more i that should be it but it's like no you gotta keep going and maybe you should try to get in a writer's room again i'm like but i'll bake instead i'll paint yeah it's rough so it is very much so well do you uh we're getting to the end of this and uh the final question, I mean, because you kind of got the first two, is the what have you learned part?

I mean, I think you're still kind of in the middle of a career here and you're kind of known, but not maybe to a wider audience. And I'm wondering, do you think about like what you've done so far, what someone else might be able to learn from the path that you've taken? I think what I've learned so far is that at least in terms of like what people have considered successes of mine, I think they all come from this place of me just going like, that's funny. Why not do it? And it's like, it's just this sort of thing of like not letting yourself go. Oh,

I don't know if that's good. It's like, just do the thing. And I think a lot of times people talk as if it's like, oh, he's so good at so many things. And it's like, I've done a lot of things that are trash and just get like fallen by the wayside because it's like, you just do more things until people are like, well, that's good. And that's good. And these are the things that we know them for. And it's like,

if you were looking at a catalog of everything I'd done, you'd definitely go like, these things suck, but it's like, yeah, they suck. But I still did them because it's like, you can't like, no one's going to hit a hundred percent. You just have to do the things. And whether that's like, you got to find what's either easy for you to do or you got to find what is the most interesting for you to do like what is what can like be carried by the weight of you wanting to do it more and just do it and like some of those things will be hard because it'd be like i don't know how to do it or it's a quarantine and i can't do that right now. But then it's like, you got to figure out what you can do and the way to do those things.

And like, just to keep making things that maybe aren't what you want to do, but help you get to a place where people know who you are. So they'll help you do what you want to do. And also just, it's so helpful to have creative partners. I think it's something that I always, it's like something that I still am like afraid to do at times because I,

I think I am very much someone who gets tired of things very easily. And then it's like, I will quit a project and it feels like I'm leaving my partner out to like high and dry. But it's also just like, I wouldn't have done it without having a partner in the first place. So it's like very good to have someone else that you can work with and that you feel accountable with and for yeah and like i just watched a movie yesterday where it was like about these two writers that work together i was like oh god wouldn't that be great just writing with

someone and being like i have to do this thing because my partner's right there and it's like yeah i'd probably get so much more done if i if i just had someone that it's like we have to do this because if i don't i'm not fucking myself over i'm fucking over this person yeah yeah no that's yeah that that kind of codependent relationship is like why i've had a trainer for the gym for the last 7 000 years because yeah to go to the gym by myself but you're like oh no there's somebody waiting there i need to go because somebody's there you know yeah and that's and i agree i one thing i've always one thing i've noticed going through going through my life and career is that every amazingly funny single person that i know has had almost always either somebody or a series of somebodies that were there facilitating that

and helping them to do that and helping them figure out who they are and giving them kind of space to be who they are and then and vice versa you know i think you know so yeah that but then the problem is is finding that partner it's it's almost like it's a it's a it's a marriage it's like you got to really be able to to not get sick of that person you know and and you got to be willing to like give them control and feel like you trust them, which I think is, that's where, it's funny because as much as I'm down on myself, one of the reasons that I'm always like, oh, it's hard for me to find a creative partner is because it's like, I believe in myself a lot more than I believe in a lot of other people. Yes, I know. Exactly. I can't relinquish control to you because I know how to do it.

Let me just do it. Yeah. I have a terrible self-image, but I'm also like a grandiose egomaniac. Yes. You know what I mean? Like no one's better than me and I need help. Which is how we get in this industry. Yeah, exactly.

Well, I think this notion, and you've said it a thousand times, making things, making things, making things. this notion then you've said it a thousand times making things making things making things and that is like such a pure place to be coming from not that you need my congratulations but uh i think that that's such a great motivator and i think that it's it's a key to why your stuff is so good at least the why you know things that i like about it because it is about the joy of creation and about needing to just be doing something and that's really admirable and really uh amazing and i thank you so much for spending your time here oh thank you for having me sure sure and uh you know hopefully we'll uh see each other somewhere in real life yeah if they ever let us out of our houses yeah before we both go gray so all right you can see dami anywhere basically i'm everywhere a did you ebay dami

did you ebay and again check his website out and um and that's it thank you so much thank you for having me and we will see all of you next time on The Three Questions. Thanks. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Earwolf production. It's produced by me, Kevin Bartelt, executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, associate produced by Jen Samples and Galit Sahayek, and engineered by Will Becton.

And if you haven't already, make sure to rate and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.