The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Jake Johnson (Re-Release)

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

As Andy travels the nation on the "Dancing With the Stars" tour, we're revisiting his 2024 conversation with "New Girl" star Jake Johnson! The two discuss the secret to a good call-in show, the confidence of old men in locker rooms, performing for absolutely no-one, their other names (Mark Weinberger and Andy Swanson), feeling smarter than your teachers in school, laughing at self-serious actors, his path to “New Girl" and "Self Reliance," and much more. Do you want to talk to Andy and friends live on SiriusXM’s Conan O’Brien Radio? Tell us your favorite dinner party story (about anything!) or ask a question - leave a voicemail at 855-266-2604 or fill out our Google Form at BIT.LY/CALLANDYRICHTER. Listen to "The Andy Richter Call-In Show" every Wednesday at 1pm Pacific on SiriusXM's Conan O'Brien Channel. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the three questions. I'm your host, Andy Richter. This week, I am talking to the actor and filmmaker Jake Johnson. You know Jake from TV shows like New Girl and Minks and movies like Spider-Man Into the Spider-verse. Be sure to check out Jake's directorial debut, self-reliance, on Hulu, and listen to his advice podcast. We're here to help. Here's my conversation. It was a good one with Jake Johnson. show and um which is like the first date is like in two weeks so i have to so there's like classic me i'm like i guess i should figure out what i'm going to do i guess i should figure out what this thing is so i i do a call-in podcast now oh right yeah yeah yeah yeah and uh it's a trip now how do you do you do people call in and leave messages or do you let people know we do it so we do it so we experimented at the beginning. So I wasn't sure. I thought like, well, let's just take any. Yeah. But the problem when you take any is you're kind of beholden to whoever the caller is and their tone. Right. And certain tones, I don't want to be in those talks. Right, of course. So we now have, we have an email, they email the show and our producer kind of screens them first.

Kind of screens them. Doesn't quite do like the pre-interview. Yeah, yeah. But we'll say like, this feels like our show. So it's live to us. Right. But it's not truly live. Oh, I see. So it is like a thing where they have, you call them, you tell them by your phone Tuesday or whatever. Okay. And so they email in and now you know, you get hundreds of emails. Yeah, yeah.

And then from that, because at the beginning of our podcast, we would have things, you know, ours is we're here to help. It's an advice thing. Yeah. So we would get people calling in and being like, I've never been more depressed in my life. My wife left me. I'm, you know, drinking a lot. And my buddy Gareth and I would be like, oh, exactly. One thing you could think about is, that's all folks.

And then we would say, and we'd be looking at each other being like, what the fuck? And then my buddy Gareth, no kids, a cat doesn't want him. They would be like, some do go like, you know, my son has big anxiety about school. And Gareth will go, let me tell you. And I was finally like, this, we're out of line, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We need calls like, I put too much cream on my hands and my hands are mushy. And then we go, let me give you an hour of advice.

Although, in your defense, what the fuck are these people asking you for? Yes, agree. You know what I mean? Like, they are asking for it. But they are. You know, not to blame the victim. But let's blame the goddamn victim. But you get into a spot where, and I don't know if it's just years of being an actor or I've always been this way.

But whatever the tone is, you go like, well, that's the tone I've always lived in now. Yeah, yeah. So they'll go like, you know, like this has been happening. I'm really, you know, sad and I'll go like, my voice would change early God. I'd go, well, depression's a very real thing. Let me tell you about what I know about depression. Nothing besides my own. I have no advice to give.

Right, right. If we keep everybody on the same tone, we find the callers are funnier, they're lighter, they're coming in. They know the show. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like now. So you kind of expect them to meet your level. We walk in, what's your name, where you're from? Right.

What's your problem? Yeah, yeah. If they are low energy, we know right away this isn't going to work. Right, right. You're the third part. It's like going back to improv days. Yeah. You're in the scene with us.

And if they're not, the scene sucks. Yeah, yeah. Because when somebody's really a fucking buzzkill, I don't care how funny you are spinning and dancing. It's a boring scene. Yeah, yeah. And our show we found really works when that person is the star. Yeah.

where you find a rhythm and then you go like, like we had somebody who, he, she got married, she called in, uh, after they got married, they moved in together.

He stretches naked in the morning. She wants it to end. She's seeing stuff. She doesn't want to see. Right. So fun call, whatever. We brought him on as the follow up.

Yeah. He was just really doubling down on the bit. I don't have the time to put underpants on. And we're like, throw a pair of man panties on. And he goes, or just go in a room and shut a door. He's like, we have a small place, and he goes, my time's really important to me.

And he wouldn't break on that. And you felt like, oh, this is a great bit from a guy who doesn't do bits. Right, right. And I was like, we could play this for, and then Gareth kept being like, enough's enough, man. Put underpants on. And he would go like, look, I got to be at work at 815. I wake up at 745 and I'm like, in terms of this game, I'm with you, man. Time is precious.

I think I would have, Jim been like, look, put up or shut up. You know, we got some floor space here. Let's see what we're talking about. See what we can do. We need to walk a mile on your wife's shoes, you know. Let's see that. Yeah, let's see those dog balls. Dog balls are the worst part of the public gym sauna experience.

Right, right. The YMCA in Hollywood was my deep understanding of old man dog balls. Like, oh. Oh, my God. I went to, I went to, did you ever go to the, Russian baths in New York. There's in this in the like the steam room there's like an old Russian man who's been working in that steam room for however many years.

And he's a guy that hits you with the old leaves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or what, you know, there's some feathery foamy thing. But like we're in there. And he has to crawl up and like, you know, like fix like change the steam. And it's kind of like, you know, there's like kind of little bleachers in there. And he's like up to fix. And it's just full on.

And, you know, like, there's his asshole and there's his, and there's his balls and taint. And the thing is, it's beautiful. Interesting turn. It's pink and pristine, like a baby. Well, because it's been marinating perfect. Yes. He's been, like, on a steam table keeping his flesh, like, you know, plump and moisture, you know, hydrated forever. So, anyway, I love that, man.

I keep waiting for the turn in my life when the idea of other men just seeing my dick, my balls, and my asshole means nothing. Yeah, yeah. Because there is an old, there's an age, a man hits. And they just, it's different. Yeah, yeah. Size doesn't matter.

Droopy nuts don't matter. Gross butt cheeks don't like. Some of those old men butt cheeks in their legs, I'm like, honest to God, Carl, you should be a little embarrassed. Like, I swear I'm not looking my man. This looks bad. Like, you look really bad. Yeah.

You should throw a pair of boxers on. Or the towel right next to you, cover that saggy white ass, man. It's disgusting. And I'd be excited for the moment when I go like, I don't care. Because I'm 45. I still care. I thought 45 I would already be on the other side. Yeah, I kind of don't care.

You don't care. And I found, like, well, and this is a weird progression of just, you know, like, like, I I fucking hate my body. You know, I mean, you know, like, Janine Garoflo used to have a bit that like, I think, I don't know if it was her body or her vagina, but she's like, we're like roommates that don't talk very much. And that's kind of like my body.

I kind of, and I remember, like, before, you know, getting into my teen years and before I ever was naked in front of somebody, in front of a woman. Yeah. And, you know, in a sexual situation, I'd be like, oh, my God, I'm going to be such a nervous wreck and everything. And I was so happy to find out like, oh, no, I'm not. Like just something about like, well, the clothes are off, you know, like, and I was like, well, oh, great.

What do you want to look at? You know, like, I don't know why. You just fell into confidence there. Yeah, I just was like, well, yeah. And then, you know, I don't know why. I can't explain it. But it was just like, all right, I'm naked. You know, I think it was perhaps, you know, I don't know that I knew yes and at that point.

But it was very much like, well, I got to go with this. You were an early improv guy. Yeah. And it's like it's silly to be, you know, it's silly to not to act like I'm not naked because I'm naked. And then I found too on the Conan show, we started to, we found, like one of the tools in our comedy box was nudity. Right. You know, like pixelated nudity. And there's kind of like, like there's a bit that of Conan and me supposedly we were in.

in the NBC steam room and we're walking in robes and he goes like oh hey or no he says do you want to go to the steam room and I say yeah and so we're in robes we're walking right he goes yeah it's right through here and he tears the robe off me and pushes me through and it's the today show set and I end up sitting down with Matt Lauer you know and like I told him like when I sit down like put a piece of paper under me before my ass hits but I'm wearing a dance belt yeah which I'm wearing a dance belt yeah which I'm For people that don't know, it's like a jock strap with one strap up the back. And it's what ballet dancers wear so they don't have jock strap marks. It's just one crack strap. And, you know, but you're pretty fucking naked. You know, people can't see your balls. And the first time that, like, I ever had to do that, and I had to do it a number of times, I really did.

I was all nervous. And then the robe comes up. And instantly it was like, oh, well, that's it. I'm not going to get more naked, you know. It actually became kind of fun to not really care that much. That's a cool character trait. I can't relate. Yeah, really?

I wish I could. The first time I was like naked, naked in front of a woman, I was 15. It was her senior prom. We had been kind of dating, but this was the night where we were like, we were in a hotel in Chicago. 15 at senior prom. You were ambitious. I was. Yeah, yeah.

But it went sideways. Because it was when those clothes came off, I guess I did what I've always done in improv, and that is, Why are we saying yes and when no, but is equally funny. I know you old-time-times. It's not really. I know you old-timers made a lot of rules, but it's really funny to me when somebody goes like, I'm an astronaut. You go, no. That's an old one, yeah, yeah.

My king, you are not, my friend. Get back to your work. Start typing. Look, it's not good for the next 25 minutes or morale, but it is funny. And the first time those pants went off, my thought was like, Pretty strange. This like toddler body is in a hotel with that woman's body. Yeah, yeah. This thing does not belong near that thing.

Yeah, I don't know. I just, you know, because I definitely, I have, if you see old footage of me, I have the same dimension. Like you said, toddler body. Yes. Like I still have. A toddler body. Yeah. Like, you know, it looks like. Same. If I mean, if I see my circles opposite each other, belly and butt, you know. If I see myself.

I mean, except for the massive cock. Yeah, of course. It's given. But if I see myself at certain angles in the mirror in the bathroom, I'm shocked that this is what a man's body looks like. Oh, absolutely. Can't believe it. Absolutely. I'm like, I literally, if I had, if you didn't have the face and you took away the hair and put a diaper on that, that's an adorable baby.

That's not a man's bot. That's not an apex predator. How'd that baby get that beard? Look at that baby. Like, my first instinct, this is after having kids is, I want to. want to pick that baby up. I don't think a woman's instinct is I want to fuck that thing. Oh, God bless women and they're, I don't understand how their brains work. Whoever created all of us, they did it, they did it fair for us. They love us for something other than this horrible vessel.

They also, what's really funny is the things that they'll be like, it was really sexually attractive. And you're like, what? The way he did that math equation. Yeah, yeah. And you're like, you're the best. It'll be like a total babe And some math gig And she's like There was nothing sexier Than when he did calculus I'm like

Yeah there is You Literally you drinking water Is sexier than whatever he fucking did With calculus There I have found like something that's I've always found funny Is like how

Like any kind of manual labor Yeah Like my ex-wife Used to love it When I got up on a ladder It's like oh my god That's so hot when you get up I'm like

Okay Okay Yeah I mean, the view's not great, but, you know, when you're looking up, but okay. You know what's a lie I don't buy, and my wife has tried it and I don't buy it, this idea of like, if I'm doing dishes or do it, and she'll be like, sexy. And I'm like, I'm not falling for it. You're playing checkers, not chess. You're just trying to get me through the dishes more.

This isn't sexy. Right, right, right. I'm wearing basketball shorts, a triple XL shirt I got for free doing some gig. Yes. And, like, I'm listening to, like, weird music doing dishes. Right. You're just trying to, and I guess what, I'm not falling for it. It's like giving a dog a treat.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Good job. Oh, thank you. She loves me. And I go, I want to live in the yes dear world where it works for me, but I'm like, I'm just not falling for it. Yeah, yeah. If I'm this dog, I am going to shit inside later.

Because you're at work for 10 hours, I know I should wait. Yeah. But also, I'll take the punishment. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's get to your story. you were born Mark Jake Johnson Weinberger.

Yes, sir. And then you took your mother's name. My father, who I'm now very close with, left the family when I was about two. Oh, wow. And then drugs and alcohol, and then he sobered up when I was 18. Oh, wow. So my first name was after an uncle who passed. So I was always Jake.

And then my dad, I had a lot of anger towards. So all my siblings took Johnson. and then later in life, when we all got to know him, I was like, well, I mean, I love you too. So that is all for me late 90s stuff. Right, right. Have you ever considered taking his name back? No.

I've been Jake Johnson since I was about 15. Right, right. But no. And you probably get confused with Jack Johnson. I do. So you get a lot of shrapnel. My friends, my good friends, call me Mark Weinberger when I have a really good idea.

They all say like, Jake Johnson's okay. Right, right. But I'll go like, you know what guys? We're looking at this wrong. We should go, they'll go like, Mr. Mark Weinberger. They're like, we hang out with Jake. We wish we were friends with Mark. So like the better side of me.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I was born Paul Andrew Richter. And then when my mom, when I was, my folks divorced when I was four. Okay. And then when I was, I was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Okay, Michigan. But I'm from Illinois because after my folks, my dad's family is from Springfield. My mom's family was from Yorkville, you know, straight out west of the city, Aurora-ish.

And when they broke up, they were living in Bloomington, Indiana. My dad's a college professor was. He's retired now. And we moved back in with my grandparents. So from age four, I live with my grandparents. When I was about eight, my mom remarried, and her second husband adopted me and my brother because my mom wanted to have more kids. So we took his name. And my dad was, my dad signed off on it.

He was, you know, reluctant, but. But does, so for you, does your stepdad feel more like your kind of father? No, no. No, he didn't. I mean, he was always kind of my stepdad, you know, and he's my half brother and sister's dad. He's passed away now. No, he was always kind of my stepdad. Interesting.

But I was Andy Swanson for... Crazy. Yeah, from third grade until the end of high school. Crazy. And then my dad asked after my mom and my stepdad split up, if I would change back. And I was kind of like... Yeah. It's so inconvenient, but he really wanted...

And I was like, all right, I'm doing this, but I'm doing this for you. you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can relate to that. I want my father and I got very close before he passed. Yeah. And really it was like the weird thing that happened where you know, you have like, like as you get older, the amount of like friends fade. Yeah. But a few are actually the top three. Right. Of course. And I was like weird. My dad's becoming a genuine like top five. Yeah. And at that point, probably if I wasn't in the business where I was already, my name was already something and I was known as something. Yeah.

And it was like logged with a union. Yeah. You know, yeah, yeah. We'll throw an M in the middle there. Uh-huh. Beautiful. Right, right, right. But there might have been something where I, like my brother later in life, I think he hyphenated.

Oh. I don't know if he did anything legal, but just to say like that, like, hey, dad, guess what's back, buddy. So that idea I would have been happy to do for him. But it's just, it's weird with a name. Yeah. And it's funny you say Swanson because growing up, my mom was a bit of a gypsy. And the name, she wanted to create our own family name.

Yeah. So we would be the, and she literally came up with Swanson's. So for a long time, we, in our inner circle of family, we're flirting with the idea of being the Swanson. because it was like Johnson, but its own thing. Right, right. Wow. And then... So it was just because it sounded similar, there wasn't like...

It was literally like... Another name that was like Swan or something. It was literally like if your name was Bandy Bictor. Oh, okay. And it was that much thought to us. But when I'm in fifth grade or sixth grade, my mom said, like, we're going to be the Swanson's. Wow. And we all went like, do we have to tell people that?

Yeah, yeah. And we waited, but we told like our close friends, like, we're probably going to be the Swanson's. And then every, like, six months, for a while we were going to move. So I was like, I had to say goodbye to my friends a lot, and then we never moved. But there was a lot of, like, my dear friends being like, fuck, man. Seattle? And I go, yeah.

Yeah. Like, you're my best friend, brother. Six months later. Fuck. Cincinnati. Well, Jakey Swanson's going to be a Cincinnati kid. Cincinnati. It was New Jersey.

And then when I got older, I asked my mom, I was like, because it was pre-internet. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, how did you pick those places? she'll go, look at a map. Wow. Just, but, but the wow, kind of, we never went. I know, I know. So it's like a kind of wow.

Yeah. It's like a spec script. No, I mean, wow. I mean, wow, just to live like that, you know, like, emotional goodbyes. Is she, uh, an adult child? Well, she's kind of, she's a, she had a very tough childhood. Yeah. Like, as bad as it kind of gets.

Who fucking who? Get over it. She also raised us. Yeah, yeah. But she's a eccentric character. She gets very bored, very easily, and then very excited. So all my whole pursuit of this business is because of my mom. Is the ADD of your mom.

Yes. And also like anything's possible. Right. You know, like, oh, you could go do this and this and this and this. And you have that. And you have this gift. And you being like, yeah, totally. But did it create a sort of like a dynamic in your brain where you're like allergic to false promises or to plan?

not followed through on? Or are you just mostly into the enthusiasm of it? I mean, probably both. You know, I've now been with my wife since 2004. Like, there's a lot of, like, boundaries and control in my life. And I like being a control freak and having things like a certain way. Right. But when I look back, I look back with fondness of the way her brain worked.

Right. I mean, I dropped out of school at 15 for a year, took a year off because of the way her brain work. And it ended up being a really good thing, but it was a really weird path. And now that I have kids, I wouldn't take. Right. But she was right. So you go like, it was her idea that she dropped out of school. So I was diagnosed with dyslexia when I was in like fourth grade, but it was the 80s. Funny. It's always funny. You look at a page and what's on there and your brain is like, nah. Hilarious. By the way, agreed. Yeah, yeah. But what was funny about that era is they didn't know how to treat it or what to do with it.

Right. So they put me in a class with like... Is this in Evanston? This was in Winnetka. In Winnetka? We moved to Evanston when I was 15. Okay. So I was in a class.

And Winnetka's got good schools. Great schools. Yeah, yeah. So you think that even at that point... Yeah, this was probably 86, 87. I was put in a class with what I remember to be like 35-year-old guys. taken out of with my peer group. One day they go like,

we think Jake should get tested for this thing and I'm like, cool. Which means like, no math today. I rule this school. See you nerds. And then they were like, great. So now you're going to go to this class and there's like three 35 year old men

where I'm like, you guys go to school here too? You have peers. What am I doing here? Were they getting like a GED kind of thing? It was like very special needs. I see. And then me. Yeah.

And I told my mom and she's like, that's not the room for you. You're not being taken away from the group. Yeah. We are not going down this road. Right, right. So she went. Let's put grown men in the room with a, random grown man in the room with a small boy. So she went back and said, he's not dyslexic, he's lazy, never mentioned it again.

So there was no intervention. There was no anything. It was, now you just got to work harder. And when I was 15, the rubber met the road. and I just wasn't doing good enough in school. Were you doing the work or was it so frustrating that you just were like, fuck this? Well, it was part, like, I would love to blame it on dyslexia, but also like, it was also, I love fucking around. I love getting laughs.

School sucks. I also truly believed until that year, my role in school was to outtalk the teacher. Yeah. And it was a competition. Wow. And it was like, well, you're up front, but I don't think you're that entertaining. Right, right. And I'm in the back with like, Mike Lines,

who's the funniest dude in the whole world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you guys know how funny Mike is? We were going to rip this shit. And the louder we got, the more attention we got. Also, too, I don't know about you, but like, because I was this, I just talked about it the other day on this thing. It was just like, I was just smart ass. Just couldn't keep my mouth shut.

Always. I mean, it's like somebody asked like, how, you know, how did you get good at being on a talk show couch? It's like, because if I saw an opening when I was in a freshman in high school, it was life. And the science teacher like said something. I was like, oh, fuck, that's really. Oh, my God. I got a good one here.

Blubbidi blub. Out in the hall. Okay, fine, fine. But also, too, being smarter than your teachers. But there were so many times when I was just like, you're dumb. Yeah. You're just dumb. Yes.

I also felt that I always, and I still live. for it when there's that slight moment that's off. Yeah. And you get to see it first. Yeah. And that's what school was. Like, I remember I was doing a, I was on a traveling baseball team and we had like a tough guy from the city who was our coach who didn't have kids.

Yeah. They tried that experiment. What a great idea. Yeah. Where it was like, he's 28. Yeah. And he played like at Colgate, got catcher. Right, right.

And now he's going to take a bunch of 14 year old boys and yell at him. Which is like such a hilarious mix. Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot of like, what the, like, you guys have talent, but you lose. And being like, man, this guy's yelling. We're so used to like Mr. Williams doing it and then us going to McDonald's. Yeah, yeah.

But he sat us down and was given us just the, we have the wrong attitude speech. And we did. We had a bunch of kids when I was one of them who, you know, was good enough at baseball, but thought it was funny. Yeah. And he squats down. And he's just belittling us to a way that coaches did. Yeah. And in his little shit.

his little cut off sweat-pants shorts, there was a slight hole. And you could, it wasn't his balls, but it quite literally was the chote. But you saw the turkey neck skin. Yeah, yeah. And it was either me or that guy, Mike, one of us saw it first. Yeah. And I still remember the moment, it was either when he hit me when I went like, boom. Yeah. Turkey neck. Yeah, yeah. I see his nuts. Yeah, yeah. The joy that filled me was like still to this day when you're like on a set and there's something that happens really funny. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the best on planet Earth.

Oh, yeah. Like, I'm seeing the nuts before others, but, like, this whole team's about to die. And very quickly, more and more players started seeing it. And you would do, like, they, like, look at his nest. You go, like, he'd be like, because you know what it is, Jake? It's attitude. And I go, look at his nuts. Look at his nuts.

Look at his nuts. His nuts. And then you'd see the faces. Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, oh, what joy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I totally get that because that's on the talk show couch. Like, to me, like, the greatest days were, like, seeing the plastic surgery scars. Yeah. Between behind Kenny Rogers' ears. Amazing. Like, having heard for years. Yes. Kenny Rogers has to shave behind his ears because of the facelift.

And, like, being like, okay, I've heard that. But then, and then being able to see, holy fuckers. It's a razor stubble behind his ears, you know? Can't you tell my loves it grows? By the way, what a lot of things that I'll have in this business, and I get in trouble for it at times when I'm in a scene, but it's hard not to watch. Every once in a while you'll be in a scene with somebody,

you'll be doing something, and you get to go like. You'll stop acting. Yeah, and you'll just be like, because those little things are funny. Yeah. Or you'll, like, see somebody you've watched for years, and they're like ramping themselves up. Yeah. And you're like, it's funny.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's weird what you're doing. Yes. You had the best seat in the house. Yeah. Because you were in it, but then you also got to, like, dissociate. Oh, absolutely. And just, like, be stoned out and just go, like, look at that human being talk.

No, I had to, there were definite times where, you know, like, where it was class and I was zoned out and the teacher said my name. Except this is, like, on a talk show couch. And I'm like, uh-huh. Quick context closed. What do I say? You know. Totally. But I, but most of the time, that really.

was fairly rare. And like I say, with my bad attention span, I'm surprised. But I mean, there was part of me that's like, I'm getting paid well to focus for not even an hour. Eight minutes. Yeah, there's commercial breaks. Well, I also have that when I do a talk show, I will have in the middle of it sometimes. You know, like you have your little stories. Right.

And I'll like finish the first story. And as the host is doing the transition, I have to fight to focus. Yeah. Because there are moments where I'll go like, oh the anxiety's over now I'm here right right there's the audience and then you have like you know because they show the audience they'll be like a few people in the crowd who are like uh-huh you're like how you know hi we're all just in this weird room together guys yeah yeah you'd be like stay in it but your guys is uh in the early 2000s late 90s uh what you guys were doing

meant so much to me oh good we had like a my girlfriend at the time annie baker and i were both just grinding and trying to figure it out and that was the show we connected on together. So it's a really funny thing of like shows that really means something to you. Yeah. That you're like, oh yeah. Like you guys had your own experience with it. Yes. But you're like, it's what's wild and I've had this with New Girl. But people have experience with the work you do. Yep. That's not yours. And people will come up and say like a moment or a scene or a movie I did and I'll go like, I honestly don't even remember. Right. And I'm like, but that's cool. Yeah. But your experience is, it's yours. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it is. And it's a dichotomy of doing this stuff because I don't know if you have the same thing. But to me, I think from where it comes from me is a very Midwestern place, which is just my, like I have so much of my reaction to show businesses, take it easy. Totally. Like Jesus Christ. You are crawling up your own ass. Well, that's, yes. Over and over and over. Like, you know, like watching a large, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, award shows. Like, there's so much you're on like, oh my God, like, holy shit. Humiliated.

Like I actually, after I was watching the Oxers, Oscars and I said on, it's not Twitter. I mean, I don't go on Twitter anymore, whenever the other ones are. But I was like,

it's so great that once a year, if only for once a year, Hollywood gets a chance to celebrate itself. Because it's just like, and there is that. There's like, Jesus Christ, it's just,

it's most, of it's so silly and so dumb and so disposable. But then it's like you meet people and it's like, oh, but it's also meaningful. It also makes people happy. But I think we go too far. Yeah. And not just the award. Like, I haven't watched any of the awards in years because they really bum me out.

Yeah. But the other thing that's been really bumming me out lately is an alienated me from acting. Mm-hmm. Is actors talking acting? Oh, my God. And because of podcasts. Oh, my God. You know, there was a time when there was way more mystery in our country.

game. And we were joking before of like, well, now we all do podcasts. So like, the game just keeps changing. Yeah. There's so much talk about process and what actors are doing. And in the end, you know, especially when you have kids, we're doing what they're doing in fourth grade. So yes, we're doing it at a bigger level. But like, fucking stop. Like, if it's bringing joy for people and you're getting paid well, we have a wonderful job. But just cool it. Yeah. Cool it a little bit With like, well, the beginning of my studies. If I'm going to tell this door, I've got to tell it right. When I was 17, I threw a rock throw a window and that led me to play.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Timmy Rockman. We were like, honestly, chill out. Yeah. It's like a, it was a good performance. Like, that's what's making me go like, I'm just having moments where, and it might be Midwest. Yeah. But we are very lucky.

I've, you know, I came up through the improv world. I had a sketch show for years. I've done so many shows. literally nobody showed up. I did an improv show once in New York where my buddy Oliver and I were very excited. We, like, rented a place in Times Square with our own money because we're like,

we don't need UCB. We are the thing. We're the man. So every great group just at one point breaks off, man. And this is our moment. So we, like, rented a place at like an old porn theater, went to, like, Times Square, Hannah Friar, literally doing bits on the streets.

Yeah. So that somebody would turn and would be like, if you like that. and literally people would be like didn't like that no no it's creepy yeah honestly couldn't hear you just saw you making a weird face seems really needy all I heard was do you like that

yeah yeah you like that like that then you like this I just took it because you guys scared me but we ended up one night we went to the theater we're doing like all our very embarrassing warmups right right where we're not not zip zams out man we were involved like wha yeah you know get all the crazy's out, man, chugging our beers, getting ready.

We're all our egos, you know, we're already in a big fight of like, well, whenever you do that intro, it does divide the audience, you know, all in our bullshit. We, the sound guy comes a couple of minutes before and he says, literally nobody's here. Not, it's a small house. Literally zero, zero ticket sales. And he goes, you, I mean, you, we didn't, he wasn't our friend. We paid him. Yeah, yeah.

So he's like, so I get paid already. theater gets paid ready. What do you guys want to do? And my buddy Oliver and I had like a real come to Jesus moment. Yeah. And we both said like, we do the show. And we did it for no one. As hard as we could. And we, you know, you can half ass a show? Yeah. Yeah. We didn't. Wow. We did like as, you know, like when you're half asking it and you're rehearsing, you slowly do the costume changes. Right. Right. Right. We sprinted backstage. Wow. Wow. And so if we're now in a business that like, if you do something, people pay attention. Yeah.

I'm like, that's the fucking honor. That's the gag. Yeah, yeah. If that magic trick is working and they're coming, don't ruin it with this other stuff. Like, guys, let's stop doing the Blockbuster Awards because eventually we're going to push people away. Yeah. And they're going to go, I'm getting sick of these people.

I would hope that there would be, but it doesn't seem to, you know, there's publicists still seem to be out there doing what they do and people still are talking about what people wear and, you know, and I, and, and people are still on, you know, getting interviewed and talking about, like, talking about as if they were talking about saving the world. Well, or just like a really arduous path. Yeah. When they talk about, I worked on this accident for three years. That's right. Like, wait, you went somewhere on a regular basis to learn how to talk like someone from somewhere. Yeah, exactly right. And you're at. And you're acting like. And by the way, it was only okay.

The people from there go, now, I don't know if this is true. I just saw it on Instagram, and I thought it was funny. And I don't know the guy personally. I've only heard nice things. But I heard this really funny thing that I didn't see Bradley Cooper's new movie where he's the conductor. Yeah. But supposedly he spent like seven years or something insane learning how to do that piece. Yeah. And then I saw this piece on Instagram. Again, I don't know if it's real or it was just these two guys who are assholes. But it was these two dudes who do music. So they had a violin and a cello and they said, like, we're going to try to play as he conducts.

And it was gibberish. Right, right. And they were like, oh, if this isn't just an Instagram bit, if it's real, then you've got the thing where you're like, you're not a good conductor. You're an actor. Right, right.

Brilliantly. You're one of our best actors. Yeah. But the sales pitch of like, and I became one of our best conduct. It's like, no. Yeah, yeah. You just pretended.

Right. And that's a funny thing of acting where I feel like as we sell these projects, sometimes it's different. Yeah. Where it's, you're selling it as if you're doing something great and special. But what's great and special is you gave people two hours of entertainment. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's great. Yeah. No, I think sometimes people, actors, and it does seem to be mostly men, put this kind of burden on themselves where, like I remember there's a famous quote, during Marathon Man that... Yes, try acting. Yeah, like Dustin Hoffman is shooting a scene and he says, yeah, I haven't slept in three days just so I could really seem, you know,

like I've been tortured. And Lawrence Olivier was like, oh, dear boy, you should try acting, you know? I just love that so much because, like, my, you know, I've said in front of other actors, when, you know, when being interviewed about, like, process. because my process was I did improv. Then I started getting work. And, you know, like the first film set, professional film set that I was on that wasn't a commercial

that I was a production assistant on. I just was like, you know, it was a movie. And, you know, and like when they were like, they shot the other actors first, it was Bo Bridges and Swozy Kurtz. And they shot them first. And they're like, okay, coming around. And I was like, what's coming?

what's coming around? What does that mean? And I was like, so I just kind of like, just again, context clues, kind of like waiting for like, oh, oh, they're going to come shoot on my side now. You have to catch that. I had this similar thing. I did, I booked a commercial. I was at the Improv Olympic out here, booked a commercial and the camera was on a crane. Yeah.

And they were pushing it toward me as I was saying my line. It threw me in a way as if it was a dinosaur coming up. me. And I literally, I think I said to the director, because I was on a roof and they needed me to do a thing and jump back and it kept pushing. I think I said, is there any way you could not push it towards me while I'm talking? Yeah, yeah. Like, could you get that out of here so I can do a scene? And it was so insane to me that I like had to, I found a class of like acting in front of the camera. Right, right. To like figure it. Just to be not drone. But everything in this game feels like you do something and then you catch up and then you catch. I had a funny thing with

Ophelia, who I did a show called Minks with, where, because the process stuff, I do like to have all my, like, secret weird stuff. You know, I have created all this goofy stuff that, like, I don't talk about, but it helps me get to where I'm trying to get. Right. And she was very much...

Is it like character stuff in your mind? Like, you, or just, you know... Just stuff that makes me feel like the person. So if it's a song, if it's what, or whatever the tone is, right, right. It gets me out of my own. Yeah, yeah. Whatever zone I'm in, I'm now in that zone. I understand. And for this one character, like props were a big part of it.

So I always had music and I had props. And she wasn't. She was just like an English actor who was like fucking great theater trained, says her. It was a fun show. I like that show a lot. It was a really good people. But she then said at one point, she was like, I like had a cigarette rings. And she goes like, do you honestly need so much stuff?

She's like, can't you just sit there and say your lines? And I had that embarrassing moment of like, I don't think I can. Yeah, yeah, sorry. I have to have like 19. Yeah. Like quiet on set, I have to go like, brup. Hey, yeah.

Three jokes with the sound guy. Why? I don't know. And then, ba, blah, blah, blah.

There we go. Yeah. It's just a... And also, you were playing a, like, a pornographer. And if Jesus Christ, if you can't cut that ham thick,

I don't know. Exactly. What are we doing? Yeah, come on. I'm a pornographer. But I do think all of that process stuff is really fun. And it's really fun for me as an act.

when you like see somebody else's stuff when you're talking about like the line like yeah yeah or the the Kenny rogers i like seeing somebody's process oh i i i do too i and maybe it's my wife when we first started dating all unless it's well unless it's fucking with mine yeah unless it's it's like taking everyone else's time like i my thing is don't slosh your bucket on the other people yes well that's midwest care your fucking bucket around but if you slosh it on other people i totally agree and i'm not even so much me it's just anybody, you know. I agree. I agree. So yeah. Yes. But I haven't really, most, for the most part, I think Hollywood gets a really bad rep.

And for the most part, when you're on set, I don't see that many pieces of shit. You have a few, like, ego maniacs and you get a few people who just aren't that smart. Yeah. But for the most part, it's like everybody's just trying to do their thing and watching somebody's process. Like I did an indie with, when I was saying earlier, I started watching with J.K. Simmons. Mm-hmm. We made a movie called Ride the Eagle. and we did a scene together.

And he had like a monologue, monologue. And my buddy Trent O'Donnell and I had written it. And right before when we were running lines, I said like, hey, I'm an improv guy if you want to like open it up. And he's like, I like the lines. And I was like, yeah, but what I'm saying is like, this wasn't written by old Billy Shakespeare. It was written by like Jackie Jay and that guy Trent.

Yeah, yeah. If you want, I was like, and if you want to go back and forth, we'll be in a two. Oh, so you had, you had written some of it. Trent and I wrote the script. Oh, okay, okay. So it was a pandemic in. I see. And so we were like, I was like, but go ahead, you know, do what you ever do?

And he goes, I like it. And I go, do you want to rehearse? Because a lot of them, you know, you rehearse a few times, you practice with the other act. Kind of learn your lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. No, that's, yeah, yeah. Well, you're like, oh, that sounds normal. Right.

He was like, no. And then he got like really quiet. And I was just like staring at him. I was like, what an interesting guy. Yeah. His first take was so unthinkably good. Yeah. That I stopped acting.

Yeah. And I just had the, like, the best seat. in the theater. And I was like, oh. And it ended and my buddy Trent, the director was like, really great, JK. Hey, Jake, remember you're in the scene? And he's like, remember we wanted a two shot? And he's like, you started in the scene and then you went like this for two minutes. And I was like, he's a very good actor. I was like, did you see him? He's like, yeah, at the Village, we were all very happy. You're in it, asshole. So sometimes when people, when you get to see it, it's really fun.

Yeah. I'm just a little bit over the talking about it as if it's really important for humanity's sake. Right, right, right. As opposed to, like, the way, like, actors kind of look down on magicians. Right, right. We're magicians. Yeah. Where it's like if an act of a magician was like, the way I make the card appear.

Yeah, yeah. Well, this started when I was seven. You're like, holy, you're just doing a trick. You're just, and like, look, I like a magician too. Yeah. But if you played like a Civil War soldier, that doesn't make you closer to war. War. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It doesn't make a magician closer to God because he makes things disappear. No. Just a trick. I know, I know. And guess what? For that Civil War thing, like, I know you studied Civil War, but like, your voice is changing in interviews at Entertainment Weekly as if you were a Civil Warfighter. And this is getting embarrassing for us, my guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just, and guess what? The makeup and the wardrobe helped. Yes. Because a lot of it, you were just going like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looked right. You have a great TV.

but like cool it. I always love like I love being around and they would come on the Conan show like the young beautiful male actors that were like in the shows that were about like MMA fighters or bike biker games. Bad boys. And they'd all sit around. They'd talk and they all like especially because we would have cast shows. Yeah. Yeah. And they would talk to each other and you'd be like.

Oh yeah. Johnny. Yeah. I know because we're bikers. And I always just felt like, yeah, but the whole time you were doing it, you had on makeup. Exactly. You were wearing makeup. When you were an MMA fighter, you had makeup on.

As well as the MMA guy who trained you who would go like, damn, Johnny, you got those hands. Right, right. Was being paid. Exactly. And they're not allowed to hurt you back. Yes, yes. Can't you tell my loves it grows? It's so weird.

It's also the really funny thing. if you get like a personal trainer when they're starting to build you up. Yeah. And you're doing really basic stuff. Yeah, yeah. And the trainer you're paying for it's going like, whoo, those knees are getting up

and you'll be like, huh, and you're like, your knees aren't actually getting up. Like you have to, like, you're holding, the problem with acting in this business and it happens to me whenever I'm doing press for a project, everybody around you is making money off of it. Yeah, yeah. So everybody's telling you,

you see certain people where their whole worlds are staff. Oh, yeah. Where they're like, and you watch the change where you go like, you don't, it's the Elvis Presley thing. Everybody in your group, you're buying Cadillacs for. Right. So when you pull over and go, hold on, I'm going to move the clouds a little bit. Yeah.

They can't say, my guy, you don't have the power to move a cloud. You're just a geeky guy who sings. Yeah, yeah. They go like, everybody shut up. It's happening. Yeah. And you see that in our game a lot. where you go like, you might be a good person

and you might have something, but like you're surrounded by people who you're supporting. Right. And, you know, it gets hard to really keep grounded so that all of a sudden when you sit down and you're doing that interview, well, everybody all day in that town car

where you're driving from interview to interviewer is saying how important it is, how great it is, how much you're killing it, how good this is for people, that all of a sudden you get caught in one interview that some asshole like me watches and goes like, what a 19-year-old prick. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But that's a tricky day, man. Yeah, it is. It is. And it's, I have always felt when you are surrounded by people who are just buttering you up and telling you, yes, it takes a very strong character to not go with that flow. And especially when as a mode of being and as like, as our, you know, training is to go with the flow. Totally. So when you're surrounded by people who say you're fantastic and hilarious and great and can do no wrong and, Oh, no, no, that's not a problem.

If you want that, that's okay. We'll make it happen for sure. Yeah, yeah. And if you start to really believe that, that's, you get into like a bad place, you know. I'll tell you the other thing our business does that's annoying is they'll, because I've been around young actors who start having, like, weird demands. Yeah. Especially on, like, press.

Yeah. Where all of a sudden they'll be like, excuse me, where's my sprite? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'll go like, huh? And they'll go like, I specifically ask for a sprite. I was going to do this podcast. And you go like, I hear you, man. You don't have a Sprite.

Chill out. I know, I know. But what'll happen is everybody will go get that person a Sprite. And then they'll apologize to that person. Right. Then behind their back, everybody will kill him. Right. But I'm like, but nobody's saying to that person.

We don't have a Sprite. Chill out. There's a diminishing return on that because the Sprite dick eventually people will be like, you don't want to work with that. Yes. They kill him behind their back. Unless he's a, unless he becomes a gigantic thing. Yes.

comes a it's like no and i i you know one of the joys of my career was that i got to well a being a christmas classic elf oh yeah and then but the real joy of it uh was working with james con and he and he was just could not be any more the james con that you would want to be and he was very meaningful to me he was i he was one of my favorite movie stars etc etc but he told me one And she goes, you know, he's like, and he was very, like, frank and blunt about, like, his addiction issues and, like, you know, blowing his, you know, self-destructive career explosion, you know. But one thing he said, he goes, like, he said, even as fucked up as I was, I never, like,

I was never late. I never caused a problem. I'd show up to work and I'd do the work. And he goes, and everybody that I've ever, that I've ever run across who does the, I won't get to set first, you know, they have, you know, yeah, like, that I'll get to set after the other actor gets to set or my trailer's not good or like complaining about food and going into your trailer and throwing a fit. He goes, it's all fear. He said, without a doubt, it was all people that were afraid they didn't have it. And there is like such a

have it or don't have it. J.K. Simmons, he has it, you know, because there's a million people that have, you know, arguably followed the same path. as J.K. Simmons, but they don't know, you know. Yeah, totally. You know, and that's the way it gets weird with talking about process, too, because it's like Michael Jordan talking about flying. Like, you don't, you know, like, no, you don't want to know. A, he's not going to. He's going to be, well, yeah, it's, you know, I'm a fish. I swim, you know. Um, you know, that's one thing about Conan O'Brien is he's surrounded my people who tell him, shut up. You know, no, you're not. You know, like, you know, and he's always kind of been that way. I mean, he's always. I mean, he's

A monster in many, many ways. A nightmare. Terroristic, I would say, at many points. But he can't, you know, he can take it. No, no, seriously. And it's a very rare thing. And it's why I think there's still an aura of happiness around him. And, you know, and now he's, you know, A, he's, I don't, I have never seen him happier. He's doing podcasts. He did, you know, a travel show for Max that's coming out, which is a very fun. that I've seen a lot about. And I don't, I don't need to plug him, but, you know, but I've never seen him happier. He's like really, and I'm worried about him because he really was a stress monster for a long time. But he just, he's enjoying himself because he's being himself. He's, he's keeping it honest, keeping it real up in the field. And I think that's a really important thing to do. But I also think that part of this new podcast.

era that we were, you know, goofing on before. What's really nice about it is because since I've started doing my podcast, it's harder to take acting jobs because, you know, the money's good. Yeah. It's really fun. It's better than podcasting for you, isn't it, though? What's that? The acting jobs?

Yes. Yeah, yeah. But I've already made money. Yeah. So I'm not in a situation where I'm like, I need money now. Yeah. It's real money. Yeah.

So you're going like, we're making real money. we're actually having fun. There's no outside bullshit. Right. So even going to any of that process stuff, any of the 12-hour days, any of the being in a hotel in Atlanta while you're shooting, being in something that all of a sudden you've got, and I know you know this feeling, but there's like a group of great actors, a great script, a great DP, and the director doesn't get the bit.

Yeah. And you're like, we're trying to do this whole thing. or you're all on a team and the studio wants something else. Yeah. And I think the reason that so many people are doing this and finding so much joy is it is direct to audience. Yeah. You make something with our show. We experiment.

Yeah. We'll go like, what if it's, you know, when we first started having guests come on? Well, you know, like if you came on the show and you did it before this, well, I've been a fan for a long time. So I want to talk to you. Yeah. So our show starts and it's a caller who calls in. So what I was doing is going like, hi, where are you from? They'll go like Sarah from Michigan and I'd go like, you've got Andy, Richard.

Andy, so when you did Conan, they were spending 10 minutes, but the audience, we literally said like a choose your own adventure, email us your thoughts. And they would say like, we want to hear that stuff from the guest tube. We're here for the calls. Yeah. So we were like, oh, you know what? There's no executive. There's no meetings. There's no fight.

Yeah. We're going to do the two calls and then we'll do like a 15 minute like fireside chat. Right. You can just make that change, try it. Right. go, you people listen to every episode. Our numbers are consistent. Do you like it?

Yeah. And when they write yes, you go like, that's it. It's not any deeper. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, that has been, you know, the movie self-reliance that I did that I wrote, directed started, did. It was a year and a half at least of work. Mm-hmm.

It was a lot of hoops. Yeah. And you're like, I'm proud of it. But the idea of like doing that again right away. Yeah. While in the meantime, I've done like 65. five episodes of a podcast. I'm like, when you say like

Conan's happy, I'm like, well, no shit. Yeah, yeah. It's a different galaxy. Yeah. And if it goes back to like that improv show with my buddy, it's like we're renting out a place. We're not at UCB. Yeah. But there's an audience. Yeah. And you go like, so if I could do a two-person show with my best friend

in Times Square and it's packed? Yeah. Why would I ever go to McMannis and try to like get on that stage? Right. And that's where I'm kind of like, oh, it's a new world. Yeah. And I don't know what the next five to ten years will be, but I do know, like, there's a really interesting shift occurring.

Right. And as long as the audiences are there, I'm like, I've talked to other friends who do podcasts and they go on tour. Yeah. And they're like, you know, family people. They're not like touring musicians. They're just popping into a city. Right, right.

And they'll go like, not only is like the money great, because we'll rent out like theaters. Yeah. It's so fun. Yeah. You do like a Friday, Saturday night, two shows each night. you fly home. Yeah. You're with the audience.

Yeah. I've done this one live a couple times, but it doesn't really play live. It's not the idea of this podcast is to do it in front of an audience. But yeah, I'm trying. I mean, I've always been like, I just got to get something that I can do. Because it could be fun. Oh, absolutely. And that energy, you're like, oh, yeah, that's a, like, I don't want to do a multicam.

No, no. But I do miss an audience. Yeah. I mean, audiences, I kind of like, I like, I like them just fine, but I don't, you know. Well, you did it for so long. Yeah, I did it for so long. And, like, I'm always. always said, you know, I was, when you were talking about, about, like, being surrounded by people

that, you know, laugh at everything you say and stuff. And, like, I'm somewhere in the middle, because it's like, people that know me, I got to, I'm like, yeah, now are you just being nice to me? Yeah. And people that don't know me, I feel like, you know, like, you don't know me. Like, you know, like, so it's like, when you laugh, what am I, I, don't even know what you're laughing at, you know, you might be, you know, going like, fatty, fatty funny. But the thing that I'll, the most rewarding laughs for me on Conan for all those years were cameramen. Like when I could see a cameraman, like, you know, laughing because they've seen all my shit, you know. And they don't, their union guys, they don't need to butter me up at all.

And in fact, some of them love to tear you down just for fun. But that's the same on a show or a movie. When you've got the operator laughing. Yeah. But what I will say in terms of that, because I relate to you. A lot of times when there will be a member of the crew. crew, there'll always be somebody who means something to you. Yes.

You know, New Girl is Casey Hatchkiss or camera A. I was like, he was such a little prick that when he would go, like a lot of times, when if I was doing a monologue, he would take the camera and go. And he wouldn't be wrong. It's, yeah. It would be like, I am being born. I don't remember these lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And when I was hitting, you could see the camera. Yeah, yeah. But I will say what's nice about in audiences. And I don't know if it's ego or what, but there's a moment when you know you're in it. Yeah. And I'm not young. So there's moments where I know, like, I'm not in it. everyone's saying I am.

But it's really not good. And it's not because I'm insecure. It just wasn't that good. Then there are other moments where you're like, oh, I found like a wave. Yeah. And when the audience is reacting to that as you're personally reacting to it, that does feel like magic to me still.

Yeah, yeah. Where you're like, like if, you know, if I'm with somebody a scene partner, because I still really, you know, going back to the old Chicago way, the Dell stuff that my brother and I studied but weren't in, if my scene partner is really funny, I do feel like I'm winning to.

Oh, yeah, yeah. In like an actual, like, selfish way. Yeah, you're building something cool. We're winning here, man. Yeah. And so when that's happening, and I'm like, this is really funny. Yeah. There's, like, the thing they're laying down is really good stuff.

And then you feel that same boil from the audience. Yeah. That, like, the thing I don't like about a multicam and what I don't love about talk shows is there is the guy pumping them up. So sometimes, I'll get a laugh when I'll sit. I'll think like my little, like, pre-story. I'll be like, like, I think the laughs here. And then they'll go like, da-da-da-da-da. And I'll go, well, then my mother, da-da, and everyone will laugh.

And I'll go, that's not the laugh. Right. And now, because I'm such a little whore, I'm now chasing it. Yeah. So before you know it, I've, like, faced out. And I'm literally going like, anybody here from? Yeah. I'm like, now I'm garbage.

I'm just a garbage person. But there is a moment where you feel like, and I'll feel with the podcast at times, when the caller, it's less with Gareth because we've known each other for so long. So our old bits together are so recycled and we're so mean to each other via text and on the show that we always have to cut out our mean stuff to each other. Just abuse. Yeah, yeah. Literally it'll start and one of us will go like, that was unnecessary.

That was three minutes of meanness and you'll go, and I love you. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Sorry. I don't know why I just tore you apart. I got problems. But it's when something happens with the caller. Yeah.

And I'll go like, ooh, she's funny. Yeah. And then I'll react to her differently than I thought and I'll see Gareth kind of perk up. Then he'll say something. And there'll be that moment. Right. where I'm like, I know the audience is going to like it, but they're not here. Yeah.

So then the feedback is nice, but I'm like, that would be fun if they were also right here. Yeah, yeah. It's funny to hear you say, like, because just looking at your career and, you know, the research that someone else did on you, because I can't be bothered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm always, I have this insecurity about, about when I see somebody like you who's, we're We're from fairly similar backgrounds. Yeah. Came up sort of the same way.

And then you're like self-producing and self-and-directing movies. And like, that's something that in my mind I've always been like, ah, that'd be fun. I bet I could do that. And then I don't. Yeah. And I haven't. Right.

And I just, I'm wondering what, because there's other people like you, similar, probably, you know, lots of people that you know. I can't imagine that of your peers. of your colleagues that come from the same place that they've all self-funded, directed, you know, a bunch of movies. And I'm wondering, what is it about that? Like, what about you do you think is, you know, creates that fire? Well, you know, the real answer is when you said this show doesn't work in front of the audience, the non-comedic one is when I was in high school, my aunt was going through some mental problems and came and lived with our house when she had cancer and she died in our home. and my mother and I were her nurses. And so I walked her into death.

Yeah. And we became friends. Yeah. And I could, my chore at 15 was like, take her for walks and be like, what does this feel like? What is that? And I didn't believe, even though my mother was clear and she was clear, I didn't really get that we die.

Yeah. And when she died, I mean, comedically, it was shocking. I mean, if you saw her, she weighed like 80 pounds, was riddled with cancer. or anybody knew she was dying. But when she actually died and then people came and they took her body out of our living room and I was watching it and I thought like, oh, this ends. So everything that I have, it's I know it's not forever. Right.

And so my pursuit in this game was I really want to see if I can be on TV. Yeah. You know, going back to my mom and my brother is saying like, I think you could do it, man. Yeah. And being like, I wonder if I could do it, man. I wonder if I could be on Cheers. I wonder if I could be like one of the kids on Roseanne. Yeah.

Then you see Second City in Chicago. Yeah. Then you see people pop. You being one of those guys where I'm like, I know Andy was here. And he was also at like the Old Town Alehouse. It becomes approachable. And we're at the old town alehouse. And then you see the way like you would do bits.

And I'm like, that's how we do bits. And so then you started for me, you know, I did the whole grind. I wasn't getting paid until I was 28. But then you do like commercials. and then I had to take classes to figure out how to act on camera. Then you do like co-stars and guest stars. Then a bit in a movie. Then all of a sudden I was on a sitcom and I was like, whoa.

And then while I was on a sitcom, I was watching the directors and watching them. And I thought like, I wonder if I could do it. Then I met Joe Swanberg and he was doing indies. And he wanted me to do drinking buddies. And when that ended, he said, you know, it's going to kill you is the people who finance this movie are going to make all the money. and we did all the work. Yeah. And I said like, yeah, I guess so.

Yeah. And then he said, if we do another one, we should try to finance it and put it together. Yeah. And I thought like, I know I don't have forever. Right. You're my partner now. So I was like, man, I don't know how to, I didn't go to film school for this. I wasn't interested.

I didn't care about, I'm not a technical guy with directing. Yeah. But I was like, but I'm going to just latch on to you. And so then Joe, I got obsessed with him. We made three movies together, figured out how to do that. Then I made one with Trent with J.K. Simmons to see like, can I do it without Joe? Yeah. Then after that, I was like, now I want to try to direct one with like a budget self-reliance.

Yeah, yeah. Now I really want to do TV. Yeah. I want to see if I can make a sitcom that just doesn't feel like a weird little indie. It just feels like a sitcom. Yeah. But can I write it, direct it, cast the whole thing. Because I'm like, there's going to be a moment sooner rather than later when this ride is over.

Right. This is the dream. Yeah, yeah. I can't believe it's happening. Yeah. I can't believe I'm sitting here with you. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, fine.

Well, take it easy, but you know. But that feeling for me is very real. Yeah. And I'm very aware on a regular basis that it's not forever. Yeah. And so while here, I'm not sitting around waiting for an agent to call with a part. Yeah. I also have kids.

So I'm not going on location. Right. So if it's here, I can't wait for the right part that I could do it the way I want while auditioning. Yeah. So that's when it started like, I got to do it now. I got to do it this way. Right. I mean, it's cool that you're like, you know, like, oh, there's a new hurdle.

Yes. Do you ever worry about running out of hurdles and that you're not like finding the place to just live? Or is it is, are you living? I think the game is a hurdle. Are you living on this, on this journey? Well, what I'm trying to do is also my work's just not good enough yet. So you'll do something and I'll go like, all right, I did that. Like my movie, I like it.

It's not good enough. Yeah. I don't land the third act the way I should. The premise is really fun. It starts to turn, but it didn't land quite right. And so I do care about audiences. So then I'm starting to think with this one, well, what can I do differently? With the Joe movies in our past, what I loved about them was I loved that they were small, emotional character driven.

Didn't have enough of a story engine. So then I wanted to try a story engine. Yeah. And so part of it is while I'm doing these hurdles, I'm trying to get, I'm trying to have something that I do that I can feel like I nailed that. Yeah. And I haven't quite, I haven't done that where I go like, well, that was really good for this, but I knew I was weak here. And so my pursuit is a selfish pursuit.

It's, I'm doing it for the fun of the game, you know, I'm trying to get better at this specific thing for me so that I can go like, okay, good job. Yeah, yeah. Well done, fat boy, you're done. Okay, big nose. Take it easy. Is there a concrete goal? Like, do you have, you know, it's just sort of, it's a process. It's a process.

It's part of it for me would be I want to be on a really happy set. Like the always sunny guys, they were filming that when we were doing New Girl and Modern Family was on the same lot. And they weren't doing 14 hour days. Yeah. They were shooting cross-covered. And so I figured I asked her on how they shoot to figure out like, on Sunny or on Modern Family?

Both of them. Okay. Both of them shoot way faster. Yeah. And it looks good. Yeah. And so I was like, so I wanted to figure out, I needed to figure out like how to shoot. and that's where Trent O'Donnell came in

because he does a show called No Activity, which he's a master of production. So it's part of it, it's quality of life, it's material, it's how the set feels, it's how the whole thing feels for an audience. Yeah.

And money. Yeah. And how lucrative is that thing? Because for my dad, when we got very close, my mother was like the wild gypsy. My father was a car guy. He sold cars.

Yeah. So the business was all there. So I'm trying to put it all together. so selfishly I can have a moment where I go like artistically I loved it process I loved it financially it's a massive win audience is really happy

finally I fucking did something yeah have the movies that you've made made you money or did they just sort of sustain them you know like while you're doing them it's a living it's all been lucrative oh wow well because the Joe ones we sell finance so we make money as the financiers wow so you're making money on first dollar gross So we made, you know, we're making a movie for $700,000.

We're selling it for $3.5. Wow. So there's a lot of money there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then apart from this, so then, you know, with each one there, for me, it isn't a hobby. Yeah. So when our business becomes a hobby, I feel embarrassed. Yeah, yeah.

Like to go away from the kids. Yeah. Like, I could never, I never understand. Well, the podcast, do you, I mean, is that still, is that a job thing? Like, do you feel as serious about that as you do about making a movie? Oh, wow. Absolutely. Because I don't.

Oh, you don't. No, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I have other, like Andy Daly and I are putting together a podcast that we want to do together that has more prep. I mean, this, this, I, you know, like I look at your stuff and I kind of, you know, I study a little bit. But we're talking. Mostly it's a conversation, you know, and I mean, and over time, I've, I've learned how to do this, how to sort of like keep the ball in the air for an hour. Yeah. You know.

But yeah, but it's not, this is not the same. for me as if I got a part in a movie. So it is for me. Yeah, really, that's great. Well, but for years I was trying to find one that, the reason I took this one with Gareth, and this was his idea, not mine, was because you could make a thousand episodes.

Yeah. I was like, I was watching the show Catfish with my kids. I have daughter, so I want them to see how crazy the internet it is. I'm just, I do a lot of like this. That's crazy. Can you believe that was enough? Don't do that. Oh, that was an old man.

I had no idea. That was coming. Be scared. Be scared. But the beauty of that show is you go like, if you like one, you're going to like 200. Yeah. And so my thought on this game of it, like, we didn't want to partner with anybody. I didn't want a min guarantee.

I didn't want a studio. I'm very involved with, like, our ad sales. Yeah. I like doing that. I like talking to the ad people on it. I'm interested in like, if they say, like, your spots didn't perform doing this way. Right. I'm curious why they think they didn't.

And then I'm willing to try it. And then I like to tap in with the audience and go like, well, what did you think of that? Like for a while, my buddy Gareth created this, like, old radio character called Gil Buchanan that was killing us. Yeah. Like, old Gilly Bean, you know, like the old radio guy who lives in like, Jake's outhouse. Yeah. That's selfish cunt Jake Johnson won't share a dime. Let me tell you about rocket money.

And my old thing would be like, you got to speed it up, Gil. And then he'd be like, oh, why? Because I'm drinking. And we would crack up. Then I created Jerry Buchanan and his brother. We had Alice. And we were like, oh, we crack. it. But then we started finding, people were listening to the ads, but they weren't putting the

promo code in. So you could say one reaction is like, well, who cares? But I'm like, but we're doing this game for this. Yeah. So then I was like, all right, let's experiment. Right. So like, what, you know, like, I like playing chess a lot. I'm doing jiu-jitsu. And what I like about those is, there's a way to play these games. Yeah. There's a way to get better. So then they said, like, What if you tried starting the ads with Jake's voice? You can go to Gil, but don't start with Gil. I see. So when we experiment with that, they said, like, the companies are happy.

Oh, wow. Where I'm like, what a wild thing. Yeah. If the viewer goes, here's, this episode was brought to you by Rocket Money. Gilly, what do you think of Rocket Money? Well, let me tell you, Jake. Then they're like, okay, if it's just Gil, they like it the same, but they're not listening. Yeah.

Whatever that stuff is, I like in terms of movies. Like, I don't like just being an actor on a set. Yeah. I like to know what's the whole game plan. I don't like when a studio PR people call me and they go like, okay, are you available to go to New York? I'm like, well, what's the plan? Who are we selling to? Yeah, yeah.

Do you want me to sell your vacuum? How are we selling it? Right, right. But when I'm allowed in, I find it really fun. Right, right. Although the people who they're like, when you're saying like, what's the point? And like, I don't know. Well, that's...

You go to New York and you talk to people and then we go home and then we all feel like we did something. And then it doesn't change the numbers at all. But we really appreciate it because this movie was owned by the same company that owns all those shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you go like, I don't need to do those shows again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But whatever that whole dance of it is, that is just as exciting to me as the creative. Oh, wow.

So, like, but I do feel like they're two different hats. Oh, absolutely. And when it's the creative hat, like, I love that part. Yeah. And then I realized there are people who don't like the business stuff, who I'm partners with. So I'm like, we don't have to talk about it. There's other people in this machine that I could then talk to about the business stuff. Yeah.

And you and I could just talk about the stories. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And you're like, great. Whatever. I'll meet you where you are. Yeah. See, that's me.

I don't. You don't like it. I don't. I can't understand it. Like, you know, when there's things, you know, like, I mean, you remember when we, a while ago there was like an issue with the packaging and the agents and we all fired our writing agents because the Writers Guild said you have to fire your because they were owning the shows. Yeah.

Yeah. That was explained to me four times, like what the stakes of that were. And it was explained to me in a way where I was like, all right, I understand 10 minutes later. I'm like, I don't remember how it works or what the problem is. All I know is agents are. Like, Bad no, I guess. Getting too much money. Studios too much money? Me not enough money.

All I know is they're telling me to be mad and I'm mad. And when they tell me I'm happy, I'm happy. Yes, yes. I fire my writing agent. What? I hire him back. Okay.

Hello, friend. We are back together. Yeah, no, I'm terrible with that. I'm terrible with that shit. I love it. I'm starting to do stuff where, because a lot of the terminology is really confusing. Yeah. But the concepts aren't.

So I'm doing now, like I like to have meetings with the business affairs people rather than the agents who explain the business affairs. Because these guys are so geeky with it. Right. That they'll be like. And they're so happy to talk to you. Yes. But they'll go like, well, I mean, if you got the RPMC, and I go like, guys, remember who you're talking to. Yeah, yeah.

And so I'll go like, oh, that just means interest. And I'll go, remember who you talking to? And they'll be like, money adding up. And I'm like, gotcha. And then when you break it down into simple terms, you see like the distribution of funds. Yeah. And you go like, well, that seems weird. Yeah.

If we are making the vacuum, building the vacuum, selling the vacuum, there's a lot of things being paid before we get paid for the vacuum. For the actual vacuum. And that is where I'm like, ooh, this new world is challenging a lot of that. Yeah. Because they're seeing people coming out here and doing podcasts and making not only real money, but having huge audience. You know, for my movie, for example, when they wanted me to go do, like, certain press, this was the first time I was able to say, like, no, but I'm not being disrespectful. I'll have the cast on my podcast. Yeah.

And I'll do podcasts. Yeah. And the numbers for the movie were better than a project I've done in a while because of podcast. Yeah. So then when I would say, like, not to be disrespectful. but why would I go do that show that I get why you guys want me to you own that show yeah so you want to fill five minutes of me sitting on a couch going like to an audience of daytime TV who don't like me yeah me going like well it's a funny story just be self-deprecating so these women don't hate me yeah

and don't say anything that's like too weird and then it finishes and you go that felt awful yeah none of them are going to not only like my movie or my podcast or me but they got commercial before and after that break. Yeah. But I'm like, ow. Like, this was the first time I did a podcast called dope as usual.

There's two guys near Home Depot. They were smoking so much weed in there that I'm like, I'm thrown. Yeah. And I thought for a second, I might be in the wrong spot. And one guy goes,

hey, man, I really liked your movie. Can I tell you what I thought about it? He pitched it perfectly. Oh, wow. And I was like, hey, man, you get the movie. And I thought, like, more than Michael Strayan would.

Sure. Because Strayan wouldn't have watched the movie. So I would be pitching him and then he would go, while looking at the timing, he would go, that sounds like a wild adventure. Yeah, yeah. What a wild ride. Yeah, that sounds like a wild ride.

And that sounds like a lot of fun. Jake Johnson, self-reliance, on Hulu, which you're ready at. Enjoy it. Yeah. Coming up next, the Guatemalan miners who have been trapped underground for 30 days. And then I have to go like this, like, ooh, sad story. Yeah, yeah.

Just because a commercial break, I don't want to be laughing after he's in Guaramo. Right, right, right. And I was like, oh, so this whole new world to me is, it's like really geeking me up. Yeah, yeah. I was on a talk show for a million. No, well, I can't. I mean, I just, yeah.

And I mean, and I was on a talk show for a million years. And I never felt like that it was a guarantee, you know, somebody comes on, you know, you know, Emma Stone comes on. And she's got and it's like, I don't believe that this is. that this is like, oh, this, her being on here put 4,000 butts in seats. Yeah. I just don't think, I don't know there's any way to qualify. I do understand. I do feel like the entirety of a, of a, of a PR campaign makes, creates awareness by just

carpet bombing with like, you know, the name of the movie, you know, is dog town, dog town, you know, okay. But, but generally, I never. And I mean when people would, like I remember one time, Jake Gyllenhaal, who's this sweet guy, was on the show. And we were talking about something. And then he had to go. So I was like kind of walking him to the curtain. And he just, before he finished what he was saying.

And then he went and then he said like, hey, was that okay? Yeah. Oh, hey, Jesus Christ, Jake Jillenhall. Yeah. And he said, he said, was that okay? okay, do you think that was good? And I said, oh, Jake, none of it matters. Andy, I've heard.

None of it matters. So this is a famous story. Oh, is it? Yes. And it's really funny hearing you say it because I think it was Mike Sarah who told me that. Oh, really? So everybody has so much anxiety doing talks about. Yeah, yeah.

It's a nightmare. Yeah. Especially as like the get, you've seen it. Like, you know everybody there. You know, you're not a stand-up, but you have seven minutes. It feels terrible. And also lots of the people are used to have, they don't say their own words on camera. They say someone else's words.

It's a different beast. Yes. And I think it was Mike, but I could be wrong. But I remember when I was first starting, Mike told me that story from you. I don't think it was Jake Jelenhall. Oh, wow. But it was that same idea that goes, that okay. And the story goes, Andy Rick Bear said, it doesn't matter.

Nobody's, nobody cares. And no one will remember it. And then there was some version of the bit where you even said, like, I was. won't even remember it tomorrow. Yeah. I mean, and I don't mean that. No, it was free. Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, did you, yeah, yeah, you know, what were your table manners at that dinner you had last night? Who cares? You know, it's all gone. It's all. And I, I also mean that in terms of if you want your performance to be the best, yes. It can't matter. Right. Like, I don't know if everybody works, but that's the way that I is like if I don't feel, and that's why it's really hard for me on sets when the director's not fun.

Right. And I mean, and even if it's kind of, I've done a few dramatic things, but it's like, it's got to be fun or else like there's no, there's no, you know, bubbles in the soda pop. But what do you mean when you said the thing of if you, the want to be the best thing, the performance? Because obviously we all have that thing. The reason you ask and the reason I ask is you want to be a really good guest. And you want to leave and have every, all the producers, everyone. go like, we were happy he was our second. Yes, yes.

So what were you saying there that that, when you, what was the point that that doesn't matter? Because, because if your, if your results oriented, you will be in your head. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically, it's a matter of being in your head. And it's a matter of, especially in a talk show, and I've said this before, the, the greatest guarantee of an audience enjoying the talk show is if the people that are participating in it are enjoying themselves. Yeah, totally.

And I always would try and make that, like my pursuit of fun in that hour because you're not watching, you're not watching a play. Yeah, it's true. You're not watching, you know, you're not watching the documentary. You're just watching, you're eavesdropping on fun people hanging out. Yeah, you're eavesdropping on fun people hanging out. And so if they're worried about, oh, shit, how do I seem? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just playing, you know.

That's not fun at a party. It's not fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not fun, you know? And I mean, and it was like, of all the things, and it was, it was a very fun job. But there is some level of like, if you start to pick it up hard. Or there's some level of kind of bullshit to it. And also for me, too, just doing the same thing over and over is hard.

Yes. And I mean, and I still try and no matter what I do, I try to fight for. I mean, even like, you know, I've hosted game shows. Yeah. And I have to push back and be like, hey, this has got to be fun. Like, if you're going to be cranky and bitchy and go away. I totally agree. So that goes back to like this dream thing that I'm trying to create.

It's when somebody comes on our set and our crew, everybody's in that. Because, you know, going back to like live shows and improv days, there were certain vibes where you'd get on stage and you'd be like, this team is fun. Yeah. Then there were certain teams that the audience. likes, but you're like, this team isn't fun. Yeah. Backstage, it's a bunch of fucking egotistical animals. Yeah.

And the audience doesn't know the difference. Yeah. But you do. Yeah. And I feel like it's got to be all things at this point. Yes. Or it makes a lot less sense. Back in the day when there was four channels.

Yeah. How you feel doesn't matter. Just get on those four channels. Right. There are so many outlets now that you're like, if you can't find an outlet now, you're just not meant to play this game. You know, back in the day, you're like, politics got in my way.

Now you're like, you just, you don't have it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's, it might not be a huge audience. Right. But you can find a way to, you can do something in this game now. Yeah, yeah. There are so many goddamn seats at the table.

Right. Right. And so if you're going to be doing it, you better be liking it. Yeah. Do you think that's the, you know, do you think that's the main thing that you've learned through all this? I mean, is there one kind of,

one kind of, you know, guiding star for you that you kind of remind yourself of? Yeah, it's people first. Yeah. So it's who you sign up to. I had a producer on a movie. I was having kind of a lame time with the director. Yeah. And I was younger in my career.

And I didn't understand that that could happen. Yeah. And I said to this producer, he's like, this guy sucks. It is what it is. We just deal with it. And I go, I know, but I didn't get the reading. of it before I took the job. Right, right. So I'm now all turned around because how is this not going to happen every time? And he said, so there's an old thing that somebody had told he was an older guy.

He goes, when I was started, they said, think of the director as like an essence or a vibe. Close your eyes and imagine that person as like a feeling, like a party. If they were a party, can you live in that party for two months? Yeah. If the answer is no, don't take the job. Yeah. And that is something I think about a lot. Yeah. Because there'll be like actors, if you're casting something of like, who's like the female lead opposite me? Right.

Even if you don't know them, if you watch them on like press. Yeah. Where you'll be like, I don't know her. I know she's good. I know everybody likes her. Yeah. Then you watch press and I go like, oh, that scares me a lot. Yeah.

And other people you go like, it would be great to have dinner. Oh, absolutely. She seems the best. Absolutely. And you're like, whatever that is, that's who I try to build her on of like, I would be happy at a 7 a.m. call to be in the hair and makeup trailer with that person and have their bits starting the day. Yeah. And then you're like, and then at four when you all say goodbye. Yeah. Being like, we're back at it tomorrow. Yeah. And then whatever that, like the whole rhythm of the show,

because that happens off camera. Yeah. You build the rhythm of the show in between. Yeah. And then it sneaks in. Whenever I see people being shitty, I'm like, I agree. Hey, dummy. Do you have long term plans? Well, that's what, this game doesn't last forever. Yeah. There will be a moment. You're on top. Yeah. And like you can be killing the game and because you're so valuable in this moment, you can have a three year run. Yeah.

It's hard to have a 30 year run. Yeah. Yeah. And it, you know, and it's also, it's applicable in any work, you know, you got to be around people you like. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's easy to say that to somebody that, you know, is an actuary, you know, and he's working in an office.

But, but ours is when you say, like, the thing I learned is it's two things. for me. I need to like the people. And I need to going back to that thing with the audience. Yeah. I need to think the work is good. Yeah. Because I've taken, I've tried jobs where I thought like, I'm going to take this acting job and not care about the creative to help my attitude. Yeah. Because if I care about the creative and it goes sideways, then I become like, you know, Nick Cage and Moonstruck and I'm going to bite my arm off. Yeah. And nobody wants to be around that. They didn't pay for that. They didn't ask for that. So then for a while I thought, well, I'll be in

stuff where I don't even care about the creative. I like the people. I want to be here. Yeah. That created like a, just kind of like an overall depression. So I'm like, so I have to think what we're doing is really good and be able to try really hard. Yeah. But I also have to do it with really cool people. Yeah. And I also think the process has to be a process that like, you know, doesn't burn out your, you know, your PAs, for God's sake. Right. But those kids are working 18 hours a day. And then you go like, how are you driving home and they go like it's fine i have to be back in six hours i might just sleep

in my nissan and you go like the fuck are we we're literally making a 20 minute show yeah yeah what are we and then you go how much are you making and they're like well with that like weird uh dollar friday thing you're like what are we doing so like every the whole thing has to be a vibe where you go like great gig yeah this was fun yeah well you have the burden of having a holistic understanding of things, it's, it really, it's, it's cumbersome for you. If you were more just a self-involved shallow prick, you wouldn't have all these, all these needs. But now with all my needs, it's not working, Andy.

Just a lot of talk on podcasts and a lot of failed projects. Yes. Well, Jake, thank you so much. We had been talking for a good long time, and it's because it was fun and good. and thank you so much. Thank you. And I hope to be on your podcast very soon. I would love it.

Yeah, yeah. I'm booking myself, so yeah. Okay, good. Yeah. And I got a lot of problems. I want you guys to figure out. I think he took the show the wrong way. We're here to help them.

Not we're here to help. Guys, I have a loan application. I need you to co-sign. And thank you guys so much for listening to the show. All right. Well, thanks, Jake. And thank all of you out there for listening. And I'll be back next week.

The three questions with Andy Richter is a team cocoa production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rich Garcia. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Nick Leow, Adam Sacks, and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista, with assistance from Maddie Ogden. Research by Alyssa Graal. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to the three questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts.

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