The Three Questions with Andy Richter - James Gunn

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

Director, writer, and co-CEO of DC Studios James Gunn (the showrunner of "Peacemaker" and the writer and director of "Superman”) joins Andy Richter to discuss his unconventional path to DC Studios, what he learned from working in B movies, why he loves making “Peacemaker,” and much more. Plus, it was James’ birthday!Do you want to talk to Andy live on SiriusXM’s Conan O’Brien Radio? Tell us your favorite dinner party story (about anything!) - leave a voicemail at 855-266-2604 or fill out our Google Form at BIT.LY/CALLANDYRICHTER. Listen to "The Andy Richter Call-In Show" every Wednesday at 1pm Pacific on SiriusXM's Conan O'Brien Channel.

Welcome back to the three questions. I am Andy Richter. I am the host of the three questions. And today, I am absolutely thrilled to have director and writer James Gunn on. You know him as a writer and director for the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise. And he is currently, he's like, he's got godlike power. He's the co-CE of the DC universe, an entire universe. I've never talked with anyone who jointly controls a universe. I mean, I did in a TV show, but that was a joke. He wrote and directed the new Superman movie, which is in theaters now. He's also the creator and writer of Peacemaker, which is so good. And it's streaming now on HBO Max. We'll get into that a little bit later in the conversation. So let's get into it. Here's James Gunn.

All right. Well, it's pretty obvious that you decided that for your birthday, you wanted to be on my podcast. That's exactly right. I said, my wife asked me, what do you want for your birthday? And I said Andy Richter. Yes. Wise choice. I'm much better than cake or a fancy dinner. No, happy birthday. I would. I saw that this morning, you know. Yeah, it's my birthday. It's, you know, well, you're rolling along. What can we do? I know.

No, I'm, I'm just a couple months older or younger than you. Yeah. I'm, end of October. Oh, great. Oh, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I do get to, at least, you know, I get to look up to you as an elder. We would have actually been in different years in school because I was the youngest kid in my class and you were one of the older kids in your country.

class, I imagine. No, I was I was actually always the youngest. So I don't know if were you in the school. Did you graduate high school in 1984? Yeah, same, same. Oh, you were really young. Wow. So we would have been in the, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was, no. And that was really, I was the youngest for ever until like in my mid 20s and then I stopped like I wasn't, you know, even going from school and kids groups to then, you know, in college and then in film production and then in comedy you know i was always kind of like the youngest or one of the youngest and then it's when it stopped it was like oh this kind of sucks yeah i sucks that there's people younger than me i'm the oldest of a family of six kids so it makes it it it does make

my attitude towards life different i've never felt like i was the youngest even though i was younger than most of the kids my class yeah yeah was it a burden having so many it was it's it all brothers, too? No, four brothers, one sister. One sister. Oh, that poor girl. Yeah, she was the burden. No, she was, she was, she was tortured. You're right. She is the poor girl. I can totally, I can totally picture, yeah, poor girl. My whole adult life has been trying to make it up to my sister, Beth, for what a rotten brother I was growing up. Well, I first got to know you through your brother, Sean, who was in You guys were on a show together, I believe.

Yeah, yeah, he was, he had a recurring role and Andy Richter controls the universe. That's right. As like a frat guy. Yeah. He and another actor, they were like my neighbors and they were frat guys. And I just remember, they were in a couple of episodes.

And they sort of like made me their hero or something. And the one thing I remember is chugging a gallon of milk. Like, there was like, you cut in on us and it's like, you can't chug an entire gallon of milk. So I had to fake chug milk for, you know, half a day. And it actually bleached my skin. Like you could see like a milk? Yes. I drank milk my entire life. I've never noticed that it bleached my skin. Well, if you leave it on your skin for a long time, that's why, I guess why ladies do milk baths or used to. I guess. You could see, you could see like. You could see like.

But from the V, you know, the downward V of wet milk that had been on my chest the next day, it had leached it. So if you're looking to get more white, which is very big these days. Speaking of dairy products and my brother, in the first, the second movie I made was a movie called The Specials. And my brother played an alien in that. And in one scene, one of the things he had to do was eat a stick of butter that was just sitting on the table. like this whacked out alien. And alien orphan was a character's name. And he goes to eat the stick of butter,

and he told everybody he was willing to eat a stick of butter. But somehow the production, the set dressers, the props people, I guess, thought that it was better to get him a stick of margarine than a stick of butter. So in the movie, he eats a stick of margarine, which seems significantly worse than a stick of butter to me. But he ate it.

Well, did he complain? Like, did he say, like, I wish that had been butter instead of mardron. Yeah, to me he did. I don't think he complained on the day. He was in, you know, 18-year-old actor or whatever. Right, right. Probably scared.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Did you, I mean, because you've got other brothers that are in show business. Does it, is it easy to work with your brother or is it like hard? I mean, have you ever felt like afraid he's going to fuck something up for you, you know? Well, of course, I'm always afraid that with everybody I'm close to. You know, whenever you put anyone in your movie, you know, the fear is that they won't do a good job. You know, and now as a head of D.C. and watching other people's movies, I'm always really sensitive to the fact that I go, oh, I don't think you should have hired that actor because the director takes it personally.

Right. But sometimes it's true. I'm pretty, but I'm pretty good at casting. But every once in a while, you cast somebody and you go, kind of made a mistake with that one. So with your brother or your wife or your friends, you know, it's a little bit more of a sensitive thing. You need to really make sure they're great. But luckily, Shona and I work great together. We honestly, you know, we will have conflicts sometimes in personal life, but very rarely.

But on set, we've, I don't think we've ever had a conflict. Oh, one time. One time, I made, we made a short film called Humanzi for Xbox. And he played my Humanzi son, half human, half chimp. I sent off to a foreign country and I put my semen in a vial and sent it off. And they sent me back a chim, a Humanzi son in a crate. And he had to wear this makeup that was completely uncomfortable. Like his ears were totally covered up and he couldn't hear.

And after a day or two days or three days of being in this horrendous. makeup he he he kind of lost it on me one day so yeah no that's that that that can definitely uh that level of discomfort which you do and you're like yeah okay i can do this but after a while yeah it's it can be you just kind of lose your yes you feel the fury when your ears are covered because it just you lose your sense of balance you lose everything so it's yes and also then people are giving you direction and you're like what what that's that also yeah that's that also yeah Well, now you're a Midwestern or two. Totally.

You're from St. Louis. That's right. And you grew up there until you went away to college, correct? And even then, didn't you start college in Missouri? No, I started college in Los Angeles, got kicked out, and moved back to Missouri and finished college at St. Louis University. But, yeah, I lived in St. Louis until I was 17, I guess. Yeah.

And was that loyal to marry me? out that you yeah that's right that's right and were you did you come on here for film i uh yeah basically yes i would say mostly but i was also playing music at the time so it was i i i didn't really know what i was always kind of just doing whatever i thought i could do to to be successful at and i was always artistic so i did you know i drew comics i did photography i you know um you know acted uh you know just a little bit of everything really. But primarily I was in the film program at Loyola. When did that start that you were like had decided on on going into film? I don't think I really decided on going into film until I was

hired to work in film. Because I was, you know, I went to Columbia University and got my master's degree. And at that point, I was writing and performing. So, you know, I just, I kind of, as a Fluke got hired by Troma Studios, the famous B movie company, to write a movie for $150 bucks. And once that started, I realized, oh, you know, I'm good at this. Yeah. How did, wait, you, and I mean, you know, you say it happened by chance. How does one stumble into a lucrative deal writing for trauma? My brother's boss was at Cinemax. He worked for, he was a program. programming assistant at Cynamax or something, his boss was a woman by the name of Jill

Chantaloo, and she knew Lloyd Kaufman, who was the head of trauma. And I got, you know, I got an interview. And then Lloyd knew, because I had been doing these performances downtown in New York. And so Lloyd knew about that. And then he knew that I was at Columbia, because I was still going to Columbia at the time. Yeah. And I think he was, that there weren't a lot of Columbia students

that were coming to Troma. So I think he was sort of doubly impressed by those things and then just without ever really knowing much about me hired me to write this

the screenplay. What was the show? What was the show? Tromio and Juliet, the first movie I ever made. No, no. The one that you were doing on your own.

Oh, I used to do these, these like, these, they were monologues. It was pretty much like what Eric Bogosian did. Do you remember him, like, doing sex drug and rock and roll? It was pretty much like that. And so it was like some, you might call it performance art, but I think other people

thought of it almost as like stand-up, but it was doing different characters and these monologues and telling these stories doing this stuff together. Yeah. Oh, okay. Now, you obviously are not, you know, like a performer isn't number one on your list anymore, but you obviously set out to kind of do that. Was it hard to kind of let go of that as, or was that the, was that driving, driving the car or was that just another passenger in there? No, I think that at all, at the end of the day, storytelling was always at the heart of what I was doing.

And I think at the end of the day, I feel more control over telling stories with writing and directing than I ever did over acting, although they're all storytelling mediums, really. And they're all creative, imaginative mediums. But I, yeah, no, it came a time early on when we, when Sean and I moved to L.A., we, you know, we acted in the specials. But actually, one of the things was when we were doing the readings for the specials to try to get financing, some folks came from Fox television, you know, and they said, hey, we really, we liked the, you know, the reading, but we really liked. were you and your brother were me and Sean. And we'd like to develop a series for you and Sean. And so that was happening simultaneously to the time that I was started getting fast-tracked in the world of screenwriting.

So at that same time, then Jos Wieden and Jay Roach got a hold of my screenplay for the specials. And then we're like, oh, we want to hire this guy to do, you know, Jay hired. me to do spy versus spy, which never got made. Joss hired me to write a pilot that never got made. But all these things were happening sort of simultaneously. The screenwriting stuff just took off so hardcore. And it became such

what to me was enormous money at the time, because I was really poor. And so suddenly when you're making $75,000 to write a pilot in 1998, it's like, oh my God, this is more money than I ever thought I'd make in a single year.

Yeah. And did you feel pressure? Because, like, they had wanted you and your brother to be a sort of a package deal that, like, did you have to tell Sean, look? No, because Sean's, I got to write these things. No, because Sean had a pretty thriving actor. He was on your show and then he had the Gilmore Girls, not too long. I mean, he was doing a lot. He was getting a lot of work at that time doing, you know, acting. So I didn't never really felt like it was, I was bailing on Sean at the time. You guys must have felt like, ah, this show biz is easy. Like this Hollywood stuff. Like, you know, both of us come out here. We're both working, getting things done, you know.

Yeah, but it had been so long before then. It wasn't like I was, I was 20. Oh, yeah. I had been, you know, because I, you know, I went through, you know, I went to school. I dropped in and out of schools. I went to rehab. I was playing music professionally traveling around the country, playing music. So I was doing all sorts of other things before it really hit you know um and even working at trauma for you know a year and a half or however that it didn't feel like that was the stars aligning exactly i was yeah yeah i was making 450 dollars a week um you know in new york city uh you know which isn't much to live on in new york city especially you know i mean today even less but back then it really wasn't that much. And, you know, I was living with a girlfriend who was working at Goldman

Sacks and making decent, you know, making decent money. And so she, you know, luckily I had, you know, help in splitting the bills. But yeah. So it wasn't really until, but then when things happened, they happened all at one time. So it was like, I gave my, it was, and it was Peter Saffron, who's now, you know, my partner at D.C., who was the, a manager at Brillstein Gray, who got my script and was like, loved it and then gave it to everybody. So everything happened through Peter. When you were growing up and sort of having fast, you know, fantasies of making movies or telling stories or being a rock star, I mean, were there certain genres that you were, like, were

you, were you interested in genre type films? Yeah, well, I mean, I was a comic book reader, so I loved comic books. I mean, comic books were, you know, I just always loved comic books and read comic books my whole life. And even going in and out of reading superhero comic books, I read a lot of alternative and underground comic books as well. So I've always liked, I guess, pop culture type of stuff. I always, you know, I was never, when I was, you know, writing at Columbia, I was never like, you know, I want to be. of, I really wanted to be Stephen King. And I think I was the only person in my class in Columbia that was like that.

So I was a bit odd for, you know, being attracted to, you know, popular storytelling, not just, you know, niche storytelling or literary storytelling. Yeah, I went to, I went to film school in Chicago, and now I have a daughter who's kind of, you know, going, she's not in, she's studying a lot of film, but not particularly. particularly film school. Right. But I'm, you know, she wants me to watch all these, you know, like old Russian movies and stuff. Yeah. You know, like film school movies.

And I just, I'm like, I just like it when things happen, you know. And I was sort of the same way. Like I could, you know, there's some art films that I can kind of like. But it's like, I really do. And especially just as I get older, I'm just like, yeah, you know, a quiet tale of New England desperation. and, you know, in like winter light, like, eh, no, I actually need some murders or something, you know, to happen.

I like both. I mean, I like, I do like, you know, if you look at, you know, my favorite movie of the past few years is almost certainly a Nora, which I guess is that sort of thing that crosses over to both sides. Yeah, yeah. It's one of those few movies that does that. But a lot of, you know, I like a lot of, you know,

really underground, you know, filmmaking. I've also like a lot of Asian filmmaking. So I like a lot of different stuff, but my voice was always one that was more, I guess populist would be the word. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, you know, because you have varied influences,

it's what makes your work in the superhero comic book genre a level above a lot of people because I think there's a lot of comic book stuff that's made by people who just, kind of seem to be into comics, you know, and it just... Yeah, I think the problem is it's one or the other. I mean, you know, the thing, you know, a lot of people that, a lot of my problem with when I talk to some younger filmmaker's day, some who are my very close friends.

Yeah. And they haven't watched silent films. And they've never seen, you know, you know, French New Wave films. And they don't know anything about the history of cinema. I just, I don't respect it. I think you have to know as a film director. you have to have a real knowledge of filmmaking and where it came from and how it developed to know how to continue to develop it. You need to have an education on film as a director.

I feel like that's a responsibility. However, sometimes people have made this continuous mistake of hiring directors and saying, oh, this director is great. they directed an Academy Award winning movie, I'm going to get them to do my big superhero movie because that'll really elevate superheroes to the next level. And that works when it's someone who understands the characters like Chris Nolan. But it doesn't work if it's someone that has no affection or no love or no concern for those characters whatsoever.

It always comes off like a movie that thinks it's better than its source material. And that's talking down to its audience. And I hate that. And yet, you know, we as studios continuously make that same mistake. You know, how do you find somebody? That's why I was so happy when Craig Gillespie came in, who did, is doing Supergirl now. He directed I, Tanya, one of my favorite movies of the past few years. But he also really loves this type of storytelling.

So he's somebody who is really, he's both sides of that. do you think do you like the way that uh superhero movies are moving i mean first well first of all let's talk about the fact that you're superhero loving kid you're trying all different you know throwing spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks creatively for and then flash forward you're in charge of making fucking dc stuff yeah like how does that how did that what was the trajectory of that happening and did it blow your mind like the you know awesome responsibility yeah um it really did it was i have to say taking over dc is one of the most unforeseen things of my life yeah i would think so yeah it was it was an opportunity that i didn't know if i wanted because

it was so heavy and dc was not in great shape um the the fandom was very incredibly divided um and uh and the the brand was tarnished for a lot of different reasons yeah and so taking up that type of responsibility with characters that i truly love and have affection for i mean i was a dc kid in so many ways i loved those characters growing up yeah um so So I, were you more D.C. than Marvel, or is that something I prefer not to say? I was really. No, no, no. I was really both. I really was. I went back and forth. But there were times when, but I can tell you that I drew comic books a lot. And the one who I added to my superhero Griff's the most was always, was, was Batman. Yeah. So I liked, but I liked DC, I liked the DC characters more, you know, and I like the DC characters more mainstream. Marvel comics at that time when I was when we were kids yeah a lot of the mainstream comics were

really great so you're talking about that's the Chris Claremont X-Men you know era those things were really good but the the the great works in DC you know when when Alan Moore was doing stuff for them and the dark night came out and watchmen came out when I was in high school and all of these different things that I read there was there was no competition those the Great works were within D.C. Within D.C. Yeah. You know, I mean, from my perspective, I mean, there was still really great stuff over on the other side.

You know, Frank Miller's Daredevil run. But then when Frank Miller went off and did The Dark Night, it was like it blew people's minds. Yeah, yeah. Those were, you know, those things were, you know, considered in the same, you know, watchman is, it's like mouse. It's an all-time graphic storytelling classic. Yeah, yeah. that's like referenced in a thousand different things too in many many ways yeah yeah when you look at the greatest works the hundred greatest works of the you know 20th century watchman is often

on that list and it was and Alan Moore to me is everything and he hates he hates movies I think I you know but I but I but for me he was everything yeah yeah so the writer Alan Moore for people who don't know yeah yeah yeah the crumudgeonly writer Alan Moore seems to I hate everything that anyone does with any of his stuff. Yes, yes, yeah. Believe me, it makes me complete wary of, you know, doing something with the watchman ever because I really do respect and admire him. And quite honestly, everything I've done is rooted in Allen Moore. So it's, so I don't really want to, you know, upset him in any way because I owe him too much. Yeah, yeah.

Do you think, because there has, I mean, for my perspective, because I read comic books when I was a kid, but I wasn't super into them. And I've, and I've sort of like, you know, I like big commercial movies, you know, and I've always kind of like wanted to keep abreast of whatever.

But I'm not like die hard. You know, I'm not like super into the characters and the mythology and, you know, the world building. So I did, you know, for me, it was interesting to see because you're, you know, your first sort of modern

superhero movies are the Christopher Reeve Superman's. And they're very kind of gosh, I don't even, you know, archetypal. You know, they're sort of, they're very good versus evil,

very kind of clean, you know, even the looks in them, you know, the look is real clean and sharp. And then superheroes start to get, you know, like dark and serious. And those always, not always,

But I often with those ones just kind of feel like, I don't know, it's just kind of like, where's the fun? Like, because it is kind of, for me, it's always about fun, you know. I mean, for me, it's for me, you know, like, for instance, Deadpool's fun, but he's also dark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I. Yeah, that's like, they're turned up both knobs, you know, like so high. I don't think the dark night is not fun, even though it's dark and serious. Quote, unquote, it's not really big serious.

But I like them all. I think that it's just a matter of, you know, there's a standout ones that you can name, you know, throughout the years. And then there's all the other ones. And it's like any other genre, whether it, you know, when you look at Westerns, I'm a big, huge Western fan. And you look at like there's the good ones. And then there's the ones that are kind of copying the good ones.

Yeah, yeah. And then there's the ones that are copying, the ones that are copying the good ones, and those are the really bad ones. And then there's the ones that are just failed attempts at something good. Yeah. I think those, to me, are the tragic superhero movies. They're the ones where somebody was trying to do something truly different and taking a big stab at something, and it just didn't work.

Yeah. But one thing I've always felt about the superhero movies you do, there is, like, they're not, I mean, granted, there's high standards. you know worlds being saved and things like that but there's always fun in your movies you know like there's always like in superman you know the just the gimmick of astro it is astro right crypto crypto crypto crypto yeah just the just the gimmick of having crypto in that story is like you know it it it's jet fuel to the story because it's so much fun and and and can you know you know, push forward the story. So yours always, to me, have such a level of playfulness that say

some of the, some of the D.C. work to precede your tenure was like pretty dower, in my opinion. And is that something that just kind of naturally is an outcome of your personality and your sort of identity as an artist? Yeah, I think play is a big part of the creative process. if not the most important part of the creative process. So I think that will certainly show up in the works that I create because I believe in that playfulness. I mean, you think even on set, we have a sense of playfulness. I think, you know, when we did, you know, doing peacemakers,

the most fun I ever have doing anything. And it's an incredibly playful set. We're playing all the time. Yeah. We're serious and we're working hard and grinding. but there's also playfulness there that's a part of it you know how can you do both how can you grind and play at the same time that's the real question um for that's the secret of successfully shooting something for me yeah no i i could not agree more 110 percent i always feel like

if people are on set and i don't care what kind of thing you're making if you're not having fun you're missing the point of doing this for a living you know i mean i don't always have fun i'll I will admit. I have plenty of days that I hate. I hate everything. I really do. And I don't, and I don't mess. I mean, I think that you need, but is, it's not a question of, is it fun for me? It's a question of, is it, is it rich and fulfilling and worthwhile? Is it, is it purposeful is the better question for me? Do I feel purposeful when I'm doing what I'm doing? And if I feel that, then I think that's, that's the right place. And hopefully it's fun. And filmmaking has gotten more fun for me over the years, but when I started, I, I, I freak, I freaking hated it, you know. You're just nervous? I, stressed, I think, more so than, you know, nervousness, I think, implies scared. And there is something scary about it.

You know, I've told the story before, but I met a guy from Cirque to Soleil one time. and I went out with him afterwards. He was a gymnast who did the trapeze artist, you know, trapeze gags and one of the Vegas shows. He was dating a friend of mine who was a dancer. And we went out and I said, boy, that's really magical. That's so beautiful doing what you're doing. That must be amazing.

It looks like you're flying. That must be so fun. What do you feel when you're up there? And he looked at me in dead seriousness. He says, I just feel terror the whole time because if you fall, the ropes hurt. It won't kill you, but the ropes hurt really bad. So I just feel terrified the whole time. And I'm like, yeah, that's what I feel like making a movie.

Oh, boy. Well, now can you watch any Cirque de Soleil the same after that? I can. He actually, for the record, he was a gymnast. He was like an, you know, Olympic kind of gymnast, and he was American, and a lot, he said a lot of the guys don't feel that way. He's like, they're circus brats raised as a circus kids in Russia, and they don't, they have a different attitude towards the media. So, yeah, just like a lot of filmmaker, you know, most of my film director friends, they, they look forward to being on set. Like, that's when they want to come into life.

And I'm like, how can we put it off? I just want to keep, you know, I want to keep drawing my storyboards. and then I want to get to editing. It's like the shooting part of it. Yeah, yeah. And everybody's always like, you always look like you have for so much fun. And I'm like, I am sometimes because I'm a cheerful person.

But I'm not always. And some of it's just trying to get you amped up. Yeah, yeah. That's like they say Hitchcock didn't really. He like plot. movies and he liked editing movies but like working with the actors and getting the thing actually on the film it's like he always you know he would say it's already made in my head like this is just after the fact so yeah that's what i used to feel like because i did use to plan

things out so much that there was no wavering from that so being on set was just trying to chisel everyone's performance and their movements and the camera movements into the thing that was in my head. But starting some place around the suicide squad, I started to be freer with my style of shooting and finding more magic on set. And so ever since that time, I've enjoyed it a lot more. And I actually think I'm way better at shooting than I used to be being more open. Still planning out just as much, just being more open to changing things once I get on set, which I do constantly. Right. Why not? I mean, you know, you've got some hours under your belt. Yeah.

Getting back to the D.C. thing, how did they approach you for that? Was it after Gardens in the Galaxy that they started to think, like, this is a guy who can run things? There were murmurings of it very early on when the shift was happening. When Walter Hamada was moving on, somebody said something to me. and I was like, you know, I don't want to do that. Like, my job is creating. It's telling stories.

It's not, I know what Kevin Feigy does at Marvel, and that's not me. And so it kind of, you know, was gone. And then they went to Peter, and Peter said, I would only do it if James did it with me. And that was a different story,

because now I knew that somebody could handle all the studio head stuff that was, you know, typical. And I could handle, you know, building this DC universe with these different characters and working with other writers and directors to tell a big story. And kind of create a big universe from the start in a way that had never really been done before. Yeah. And so at that point, it was like I was excited about it, but also I'm like, oh, my life is gone.

My life is gone because I needed to get so much stuff done. And and so I was scared, but I just couldn't say no to it. It was a position nobody had ever really had before a studio head who's also a creator. It's

unprecedented. Yeah. And also, you had a partner to sort of handle the grown-up stuff. Who's a guy? Yeah, you just got to do the fun stuff. Yeah, there's still still some grown-up stuff I have to do, which I'm not always fond of it.

And I've weaned myself out of a lot of the grown-up stuff over time. And I've, you know, David Zazelov, and I have a very good relationship. And I'm like, David, I can't go to these meetings. I just, it's killing me. It's like killing me. Yeah, meetings. I've done as much as I can to avoid meetings. Yeah.

Just meetings generally there, you know. This is sort of a meeting. Let's all go around. Well, yeah. I mean, except we're not saying the. exact same thing in different words just to make sure that our salaries continue. Yes, yeah, yeah. So I, yeah, so there was, there was some, you know, learning along the way about what was working for me and what was working for, you know, WBD. But, but overall, I'm happy.

And now we've kind of gotten through the initial stage, which, of course, is always the ring of fire. And for me, that was, you know, choosing to do two television shows and a movie. at the same time, which I wrote everything by myself. And that was sort of, you know, really rough on my spirits, my marriage and everything. And so trying to now, you know, come back together a little bit, letting a little bit more of the human side of me exist as I move on and have fun, because now we succeeded at that first stage and now we want to go into the next. Sort of the evolution of superhero movies going from kind of kid stuff to kind of, I don't know, well, I don't know, because it has, it does seem like there was a time where every big movie was a superhero movie.

And it seems to have dwindled a little. And, you know, when you look at it, like the westerns, there was a heyday of westerns. That's right. And then, you know, I mean, up and I don't know what they're saying now. but, you know, there's, there was this conventional wisdom I know a few years ago that, like, no one wants to see westerns. Like, westerns are dead in the water. So don't even bother pitching a western. Yeah.

And I'm wondering, do you see that same kind of relevance, evanescence of superhero movies coming somewhere down the road? And if so, do you have like a plan to stall? Get out? Well, that. That's one thing. I don't, I mean, listen, these characters and their stories have been around for, you know, 85 years. Yeah. So they always have times when they're more and less relevant and more, you know, unless the center of pop culture.

Like, that's just the ebb and flow of stories. I think if you look, if you look back on that timeline, you know, it really does have to do with the quality of the material that's being put out and whether it's something that interests people or not. And so I think superhero films are not going to dominate in the same way they did a few years ago, meaning, you know, the top two movies every year, Marvel movies, and then other stuff that's whatever eeked its way in. I think there's a lot of different types of spectacle films that people are telling that people want to see, and that's great. And so, you know, superhero movies just, they need to, you know, we need to. focus first and forced on the story, you know, but when you talk about, they're not dominating in the same way they were a few years ago. There's been two other factors that have heavily relate to that. And that, I mean, overall, they're not novel. They're kind of telling the same

story again and again. Many of them, not all of them, but many of them are kind of telling. you're not the novelty of seeing say two characters that you've never seen before together together has worn off that was an enormous thing when you know uh you know the first time we saw you know iron man and holk on screen together nobody care nobody cares about that anymore yeah um so the novelty of that is run off and of course just box office in general is not the same as it used to be um it's uh it's a little bit less than it used to be not tremendously less but a little bit less. And so it's harder to make those billion-dollar movies.

So you need to make movies making sure that they can make it a budget where you know that they can make money, which is what we did with Superman from the start. I remember because, you know, on the Conan show we used to do, there was a number of years where we do a week of shows from Comic-Con every year. And I had never been to Comic-Con. And in fact, while I was there, I never even was really on the floor. I went to some of the events and stuff, too. But I remember our first year there, Chris Hardwick,

was a guest on the show. And he's, you know, he's sort of like, you know, he had the nerdist. I don't even know if it still exists. It still exists, although Chris isn't there anymore. Yeah, yeah. But he had, you know, basically sort of, he was the, you know, Hugh Hefner of nerd culture.

He was, yeah, totally, totally. And I just remember this, on this, you know, this interview he had on the show, he said something about, he kind of talked about, Comic-Con as being, you know, this safe place for these delicate creatures and their, you know, sort of particular interests and obsessions and, you know, and this kind of like attachment from childhood to these things that they take into adulthood and how it was, again, like a safe space. And I was just sitting there thinking like, what? This is the bullies of Hollywood now.

Like, this is now, this is, you know, like the nerds have become the bullies because they're the ones that have a stranglehold, at least at that time, on kind of the big money shows. And I'm not, you know, and I'm not the first one to note that it squeezes out a lot of the smaller movies. And I mean, and that's not the fault of superhero movies. That's the fault of just, you know, blockbusters. You know, everyone wants a blockbuster. But it seems to be even more so now with like insistence on IP and, you know, You know, and I'm wondering, do you, what's your opinion on that about like these big, huge commercial juggernauts seeming to not leave a lot of room for smaller things?

I don't think that's true. All right. Well, fuck it. Well, no, but here's what, let me, let me say, let me say how I, what I think. Okay. It's a function of technology. And the smaller films, you know, can do, people are not going to go to the theater to see most smaller films. Yeah.

Unless it's an unusual picture. Because people are going to the theater for an experience that is something different than what they can experience at home. Right. And they'll see that quiet indie on streaming. They don't need to go to the theater. That's exactly right because they're. their TVs, you know, even in modest homes are 100 inches with wonderful sound systems on a bar. So it's like, why are they going to see the movie that was made for $2 million as an independent film in a theater?

It would only be to see it on a big screen and surrounding by people. And that's great. And I think people should do that. I'm not saying, don't do that. Everyone should go see movies and theaters. I love seeing movies and theaters. I think it's worth it for fitting in the audience. But that isn't where people are going to the movies.

And so I don't think it has anything to do with big movies squeezing small movies out. I think that's this victim mentality that it's coming from, sorry, from people that say that are maintaining that that's the case, but that isn't the case. It is still like there aren't enough theaters for these smaller movies. There are. They just, people are not going to see them. And so I don't know when the public is choosing one thing over another, I'm just, not sure that, you know, I think if you can say anything, you can say that, you know,

the rise in ticket prices is part of it because, you know, but I don't know if people want to spend 30 bucks for a ticket to go see as, you know, as a regular small film anymore. I think it's hard. Yeah. So I think that, that I don't, I don't think, I think that people mostly are going to the movies to see blockbuster movies. And by blockbuster, I mean spectacle films. Yeah. And then horror films because horror films are something that the communal experience of watching a horror film really works in a

theater more so than at home. Yeah. I wish more people were, I wish there were more good comedies coming out because I think that's the third thing that's hard to argue. It's as good to watch the hangover at home. Yeah. Because it is with an audience laughing uproariously. It's just more fun to see a good comedy. Yeah, I have on my to-do list to see naked gun.

I haven't seen it yet. Me too. Me too. I have so many friends like, and you know, it's always like, like somebody can say, you should go see this. And I'm like, yeah, okay. And then it's like somebody who I really trust is like, you should see this. And I've been seeing tons of those people saying, me too. This was so hilarious.

So I just, and it does make it where I do think like, yeah, once the last time there was a big comedy. No, they don't know what they're going to do anymore because they haven't been making money. But I'm also thinking, when's the last time I saw a hilarious comedy? And, you know, on streaming after it came out and I went, oh, my gosh, that movie's so funny. You know, I mean, I remember it happening five years ago, but I don't remember it happening

within the past couple years. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's something that I'm forgetting. But I wish I do, I wish there was more than that. or like, like, you know, like, I'm going to get that, you know, Barb and Star go to Vista Del Marr or something like that. Like, that's, I don't know if you saw that one, the Christian Whig.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was a long time ago. Was that a long time though? See, that's the other thing. It has to be five years. It has to be five years, you know. Yeah. I mean, I mean, but I was straight to streaming too, you know,

like there's a lot of really funny movies that seem to be, you know, Hulu or, you know, or kind of Netflix or something. like that. So it is a, I mean, I hope that that's something, the thing that it's always struck me about the industry is always, and it's always just funny to me how they'll be like, oh, we can't buy those, like those don't work. And then somebody shows them, well, here, here's one that's, you know, say like, I know Matt Weiner worked on one of my sitcoms and he gave me the pilot script to Mad Men that he was

having a lot of trouble getting made. Because everybody's like, yeah, because they can't down. We can't do period shows. Like, they just don't work. So somebody does it. It does well. Then the next year, there's like five period. Like all the people that said, oh, that won't work.

I don't, I don't know. I just am always amazed like, do they go, oh, geez, I was stupid? Or do they just go like, okay, let's, you know, they seem to be the fish are biting at that bait. Let's throw more of that out. But that's always the case. I mean, I ate it. I ate it.

They always have, you know, it's like Nirvana came out. and then, you know, a few years later, you have the Xerox of the Xerox of Nirvana coming out. Yeah, yeah. That's just what happens. You know, you have the original thing come out and then you have somebody copying that thing. Yeah, yeah.

Well, we got to talk about Peacemaker. Let's talk about Peacemaker. I would love to talk about that because it's my favorite thing in the world, for real. It seems like it. And I have always been one to believe, especially in a movie that's supposed to be fun. I have, you know, I've never worked on a drama, like a real, well, that's not true, but like a real drama, drama movie.

I've worked in drama a few times on television, but, you know, I always believe that if you're having fun, it's going to make the project better. And you can, you can tell a happy set versus an unhappy set, or at least I feel like I can. Yeah. And this thing feels like, and also, too, I know. know so many people, like Steve Age, he's a friend of mine. So I know, yeah, yeah. And I know Sean, and I know what kind of what your set must be like with all those fun people and haven't talked to Steve about it.

Peacemakers, the fun is set. I mean, I think all anyone needs to do to find out what it's like working with this group of people is to watch some of our interviews from Comic-Con because they're, these guys are, they're insane, you know? And John wrote me, we went to Comic-Con, you know, what was it last weekend, two weekends ago? I don't know. I've lost all sense of time, Andy. Yeah, yeah. We went to Comic Con and John is just

so happy and he's like, this is my favorite day of press I've ever done in my life. Oh, wow. And I'm like, that's John saying that, who's done a lot of press. But it's just such a tight group of people and we all come from different parts of the country, sometimes different

countries, and it's just been such a great group of people. I love doing it more than anything. And you know, I'm allowed to just do whatever I want on this show. We can do anything. So we do have incredibly dramatic stuff, but we also have really funny stuff. And we have huge action sequences.

And we have horror elements and gore and sex and everything. There's no rules to peacemaker. And it's such a fun thing to create because of that. Where was the original idea from? Was it in Suicide Squad? Yeah. The character of Peacemaker was in Suicide Squad. he kind of got killed

and he got shot in the neck and suicide squad and a building fell down around him and that was supposed to be the end of peacemaker but I liked working with John so much that when Peter Saffron and Walter Hamada came to me and said hey if we did a spinoff of Suicide Squad as a TV show who would you use

and I said peacemaker And they were probably surprised by that And probably also in some ways happy Because I picked the character that John Cena was But yeah So we kept him alive in the post credits And then we brought him back for the season In which we took the character

Who was kind of the worst guy in the suicide squad Yeah, he was a super dick in the first one And then he becomes lovable, you know You get to understand him and you know Yeah and I think that was the challenge of it Is this character who is just bad. And not trying to hide any of that, not pretending like that didn't happen, you know, which is a common occurrence in these movies where you have these sort of villainous characters

who you turn good a little by little. But you're kind of forgetting that, oh yeah, they tortured a man in the first movie. Right, right, right. So it's like it really is we're not, you know, we are constantly reminded that he killed Rick Flagg Jr. The season is a lot about how he killed Rick Flagg Jr. because he's trying to be killed by Rick Flagg Jr.'s father, Frank Grillo. So it's, yeah, anyway, that's where it came from. Did you feel a lot of, I mean, because the first season was just great and full of so much big stuff. Did you feel like a big, was it, was it easy to just say, let's do some more the same? Or did you feel this need to kind of top it? Or even like sort of top the movie

version of it? You know, I love the characters so much. I was excited. to go on this journey with them. So I always feel a certain amount of pressure when I start writing a screenplay. But once I get into it, then this one was particularly hard because it came to a place where I took over D.C.

I was finishing writing the cartoon series, Creature Commandos. Then I had to write Superman. And I had to call up John and say, I know we've got this deal to do Peacemaker season two. But I have to put it off because I have to go and do Superman. Yeah. He was great. He was, I think, the, you know, I think I called Kevin Feigy to tell him, like right before the news came out. I called Kevin to tell him, just so you know, because I had a movie coming out with them. So I was like, I took over DC. And then I had a call and tell John and tell him the situation. And John was, as always, the most supportive guy in the world. My wife and I were talking about John at breakfast today. And, you know, we often talk about how he's so.

intensely successful and charismatic but he has no ego and then i said you know what i don't know if it's a john has no ego i think it's that john doesn't let his ego dictate his choices or his actions that's who john is and he's just a guy i just love um and so anyway he said you do what you need to do i'm just grateful to be a part of anything wrote superman and then i had a right peacemaker quickly in eight weeks before I started shooting, you know, before I started heavy pre-production on Superman. And it really mattered to me because these guys are my close, close friends. I mean, all of them.

You know, Freddie Estroma lives near, he and his wife live near me in Georgia. We're like, you know, they're like one of our best couple friends. Daniel Brooks lives near us here. She's one of our best couple friends. It's like these are our good friends. My wife's on the show. Steve Agey's been one of my best friends for New York. nearly 20 years.

Yeah. So it's, it was, I felt so much pressure to write it. And I started writing and just, you know, magically or luckily, it just was coming out. And the episodes were coming out great. And I would get to the end of one and I'm like, oh, that, that turned out pretty well. That's pretty cool. I love that episode. Wow, I was terrified when I started writing it, but now I love it.

And then I'd be like, oh, but now I got to do the next one. I'm probably going to screw this one up. and then I'd dive in and it just would come out. Yeah, yeah. I felt really blessed. I really did. I felt really fortunate. It's a really touching story.

And it is a lot more melancholy and darker and sadder and more dramatic in some ways than the first season, but also has even more fun elements because of the two dimensions that we're dealing with in the alternate reality. I think the whole thing, too, is it like when you meet peacemaker's dad, that's like that's that's a huge turning point and sort of just like your feelings towards him totally that's i think it's like the minute you see how mean his dad is to him yeah how how he's dying to please his father yes yes yes is unrelentingly cruel to him i mean he is the worst father in that i can think of it yeah yeah yeah and you know i mean he says to him and when he's he says to him at one point he says

your brother i loved him i loved but you i you know when you came out of your mother i should have slit your little throat it's like that's his father that's yeah yeah that's he's consistent with that um and so yeah i think the minute we see peace that was a lot of people who've watched the the first series who hated him in suicide squad and said why are you making a show about peacemaker they see the first scene with him and his dad which is like the third or four scene first episode. And I go, oh, my feelings towards him instantly change. Yeah, yeah. Because I understood as bad as he is. He wasn't as bad as where he was coming from. Was that a conscious decision where you're like, I got to let people know right away. This guy's, you should feel

sorry for this guy or at least feel some sympathy for this guy. Well, I think once we started editing it, I thought of it more like that. But I think I just commented it from a character standpoint. And the truth is, I always loved Peasemaker. You know, I always felt for the character. And I think it's there even in the suicide squad movie there's a moment where john and that's kind of the if you ask me what's the actual seed for the movie there's a moment where rat catcher two falls back on the ground and peacemaker is about to kill this young girl who's his friend and we cut to this extreme close up of john sina and you can see in his eyes that he's entered a nightmare world for himself and he doesn't want to do this

even though he's going to choose to do it. Yeah. And I, in that moment of humanity from John was something that excited me to both explore the character of Peacemaker. And also, I thought that I could really help John Cena as an actor to bring the best out of him. And, man, people are going to freak out on his performance in season two because he is so, so good. Yeah, yeah. He is amazing. Well, when does it come out?

I know I have it written down here. It comes out on August 21st. August 21st. And I think it's August 22nd on platform, other platforms all across the world. And we have to wait, don't we? It's going to come out week after week. It's going to be once a week. No.

Andy, that's the fun way. I know. I know, but that's not what baby wants. That's not what baby wants. That's true. Baby doesn't want that. Baby wants a full belly right now. You know, but what I love about it, what I love about it is, you know, everybody discusses what happens online.

Yeah, yeah. When you have a twist, and there are so many twists in terms in this season, when you have a twist, it's just, it gives it time to really sink in and really twist you. Yeah, yeah. When you're watching it like this, it's not quite as, it's fun. I mean, people will love watching it that way, too, but I love the weekly experience. I love the, you know, there is also a communal experience to TV that we've missed. out on in the age of streaming, where people are watching everything all at once and never talking about it or sharing it.

I like the water cooler moments where you're able to talk about your favorite show from week to week. That's what we experience on the first season of Peacemaker. We have our podcast that comes out every week that we talk about the episode. We do our watch party every week on threads, which people can come and be a part of. So it lets people be a part of the Peacemaker family in a real way. Are you ever going to get some time off? It seems like.

well i'm you know i'm about to go go go i'm going to go away for my wife's birthday we've got a trip planned um by yourself yeah i'm going to take some time off my gift to her is i'm going to the caribbean by myself no we're going to go away for a little bit and then uh peter saffron's birthday is also coming up so we're going to go celebrate that in england um so i'm doing i'm doing a couple little things uh that's good but i'm also trying to finish writing the treatment for this sequel to Superman so right right we're still going yeah yeah um well you know let me know if you need any any advice story-wise because i'm really sharp you got it listen i love story i take it from everywhere like i really do i love everybody chiming in

yeah well like when you write the when you sit and have a short amount of time to crank out a a season of peacemaker i mean are you sharing it with people to sort of get feedback and to get punch up or anything like that i share it i gave it to my wife immediately and she's unrelentingly harsh with me and sometimes like i gave her the first episode and she was like it's not working and i was like oh i forgot about that i wrote a whole first episode that was totally different and i was like oh you know and i hate it but it's like i know it too like there's a part of me you know you're living with this thing inside yourself and then you put it into the light and oftentimes you don't need to even hear what the other person says because you can feel the energy of it as

it's going out yeah yeah you can say and I'm sure you know that as a comedian like you know you jokes yeah bits yeah before somebody laughs or not you're like that's not that funny yeah I thought it was funny inside my head but it's not that funny when it actually comes out exactly you know or oh wait that's much funnier than I thought it was that hook Yeah. And so it is like that, but she's always, she's, she's the first person. Peter Saffron is the second person. And then, you know, HBO Max reads it and gives me their notes.

And they're very cool because if I don't want to take them, I don't. But I listen and I consider everything they say because I just want the shows to be as good as possible. You know, but there's also this sort of free wheeling thing with Peacemaker where it's like, And we only have time to do so much. It's like you're going to get the whole thing. Right, right. There's a fun to it, a mess to it that I think is part of the appeal of the show, you know. And I don't do what, you know, when I'm doing a movie, I'll do a thousand takes of something, you know.

And on Peacemaker, I'm like, I don't have time to do that. I can't. I just can't do it. So, okay, we're on to the next. And that's okay. It doesn't have to be perfect. And somehow, it's like, it's. some ways peacemakers is more fun to watch than anything I've done because it's because of that,

I think. Do you think you'll let that kind of loosey, goosey, you know, clock is ticking kind of feeling take over in your feature work? Or do you think you'll stay? Is there too much at stake with effects and things that, you know, you have to do the thousand takes? Well, I've learned how to, yeah, I don't know. Probably not. It's a different medium. It really is. Yeah, yeah. I mean, The thing I love about TV is that TV is about the characters. You fall in love with the characters. And then you watch their stories. A movie, at least a, you know, a spectacle film, right?

You need to have, you have your scene that leads to the next scene. That needs to the next scene. That leads to the next scene. Yeah, yeah. You don't really have time to mess around. Yeah. And so they just work on people differently in that way. I see.

So I think that I keep the funny stuff in peacemakes. because it's funny. And in a movie, after doing test screenings, you go, oh, that was a funny little line at the end of the scene. But it wasn't worth keeping versus moving the story along. And peacemaker, you're like, oh, no, it's worth keeping. Because people want to hear vigilantey say that stupid thing.

Yeah, yeah. Do you have long-term plans that you got, or you kind of now, you've got so much on your plate that you're just kind of going, you know, like you've said, you've got to finish Superman, the Superman sequel, and then you're going to start a, you know, start working on the pre-production on that.

You mean, like in terms of my next couple movies, you mean? Yeah, the next couple movies are just in life. Like, you know, like, do you see yourself running DC forever or? No, no, no. But I do see me doing it for the, you know, a certain amount of time and putting the story that we have together in place. And as long as we keep, you know, as long as we continue on doing this,

There's a plan in place for what my next couple of movies are going to be. And then at the end of that story, I will probably move on. But that's a little bit away. Okay. What do you think is the biggest lesson you've learned in your journey from St. Louis to D.C., being the king of D.C. In all of life? yes or about success no uh whatever it could be about you know uh hygiene i don't give a shit wrap something just button this fucking thing with something please i am really into flossing

and um and i'm into teeth help and i'm also here's i'm going to give you the best piece of advice you ever got when you when you brush your teeth do you rinse your mouth out afterwards uh yes don't am i supposed to eat the toothpaste yeah You're supposed to spit out the excess, but keep the toothpaste in your mouth. I know it sounds crazy. It sounds nuts, but you get used to it very quickly. Don't rinse out your mouth. Keep, don't get rid of the toothpaste.

Because the detergent power continues on after you. It's really good for your teeth. And I haven't had, I've had like one cavity in my whole life. But what happens when you try and take the first sip of coffee and you still have toothpaste in your mouth? You just get used to it? No, I don't do that. I don't, there's enough time for me between my, my, to be honest, I don't brush my teeth until after my breakfast.

Oh, well, that's interesting. And then I brush my teeth at night. And I think at night, night is the main time you want to think about. Okay. So there you go, folks. You heard it from, you heard it. That's how I became the kingpin of D.C. I'm hoping that these will make their way into.

to, I don't know, maybe like, you know, the green arrow becomes really obsessed with dental hygiene. He might be. He might be. The Peacemaker says he's obsessed with furries and, you know, but we'll see. We'll see what he's really obsessed with. Well, James, it was great hanging out with you. Thanks so much for taking your time. And everybody should watch Peacemaker.

It's one of the best things on TV. I really, I love it. And your Suicide Squad movie, too, just so much fun and so much, like, just for me, like, peak. superhero stuff because it's it doesn't look you know like your your stuff you're very you know reverent about the the superhero stuff but you're also it has a wonderful identity and a wonderful sense of humor and I and I really love it and it's tons of surprises too really funny stuff thanks Andy all right you soon hopefully all right yes I hope to and thank all of you for listening I'll be back next week with more of the three questions goodbye

The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rich Garcia. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Nick Leow, Adam Sacks, and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista, with assistance from Maddie Ogden. Research by Alyssa Graal. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to the three questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts.

And do you have a favorite question you always like to ask people? Let us know in the review section. Can't you tell my loves are growing? Can't you feel it ain't it showing? Oh, you must be a-knowing. I've got a big, big love. This has been a Team Coco production.