The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Jeff Hiller

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

Actor, comedian, and writer Jeff Hiller (HBO's Somebody Somewhere) joins Andy Richter to discuss his new memoir, “Actress of a Certain Age: My Twenty Year Trail to Overnight Success,” his unique faith journey, working on "American Horror Story," and much more.Do you want to talk to Andy live on SiriusXM’s Conan O’Brien Radio? Tell us your favorite dinner party story - leave a voicemail at 855-266-2604 or fill out our Google Form at BIT.LY/CALLANDYRICHTER. Listen to "The Andy Richter Call-In Show" every Wednesday at 1pm Pacific on SiriusXM's Conan O'Brien Channel.

Hey everybody, welcome back to The Three Questions. I'm your host, Andy Richter, and today I am very excited to be talking to Jeff Hiller. Jeff is an actor, writer, and comedian. He's best known for his roles in shows like Somebody Somewhere, an American Horror Story. His new book, Actress of a Certain Age, My 20-Year Trail to Overnight Success, is out now. Here's my great conversation with Jeff Hiller. Hi, Jeff Hiller. Hi. How are you, Andy? I'm good. I'm good. Andy Richter. Thank you. It's Paul Andrew Richter, actually.

Is it? It is, it is. My mother caused confusion for my entire life. Was it her choice? By your middle name? Yeah, yeah. And I swear that she told me this one. She says she didn't. But I asked her, like, why did you call me Andy after naming me Paul Andrew? Like why not Andrew? I mean, granted, Andrew Paul doesn't sound great. And then people would think I was one of those awful brothers if I was Andrew Paul.

But she said her rationale was, well, I like the way Paul Andrew sounded, and I named you after my uncle Paul, but I didn't want to call you Paul because I didn't really like my uncle Paul. I was going to do a bit where I was like, is Paul someone that she felt she had to name you after? I don't know, and I don't even know why she went. I mean, to my knowledge, I never met him. I think he might've died when I was little, or possibly been dead before.

But he was like, you know, some old religious Bible beating Swede in Canada, because my maternal grandmother, my maternal grandmother was born to Swedish missionaries in China. And all her family, like after the Boxer Rebellion, you know the Boxer Rebellion. Wow, just dropping that casually. They all split all over the world.

But most of them ended up in Canada being very religious. And what religion? Lutheran? They kind of, do you know the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago? Yes. My great grandfather is number two on the enrollment. Oh my God. Of the Moody Bible Institute.

Okay. Whatever that means. That's hardcore. But yeah, it's pretty evangelical. I once met a woman who went to Moody Bible Institute and I said, what was your major? And she said, Bible. Yeah, yeah. What the fuck? It's right there. I once met a woman who went to Moody Bible Institute and I said, what was your major? And she said, Bible. Yeah, yeah.

What the fuck? It's right there in the name, asshole. Shame on me. Bible. Yeah, so they were all over. So I never met Uncle Paul, but that's... Are you a full Swede, like 100%? No, I actually am a bunch of...

You know what's interesting about those DNA things is that it's not... Like my brothers and mine are very... Like he's more German than I am or whatever. But I'm basically white. Every flavor of white all stirred up together. Me too. 99.9%. Yes. That's what it said to me.

There's like a couple of like, you know, a slight chance North African, which I'm like, okay, perhaps I'm invading more somewhere. But like, it's like everything north of France is kind of tossed together. But a lot of English, a lot of Swedish, a lot of German, and a lot of French too. My paternal grandmother was French. Like from France? Her parents were from France. In Springfield, Illinois, there were a lot of coal mining Frenchmen because there were

strip mines that were down there. Back to the mines. I must drive. Dig the coal and drink the wine. That's such a fun mashup. It's like a short form improv game. Yeah, yeah. Oh la la.

The black lung, she get me. Oh ho ho, he ho. Oh ho ho, he ho. Oh la la. I am dead. Oh, he ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha in that show. Yeah, it's weird, right? Yeah, yeah. And is that reflective? Who is that reflective of? Like, why is religion such a big part, like, of your show, and like, your character's relationship, like, what church you go to is... I know. And it's funny,

because I grew up the most religious of anybody involved in the show, but I had nothing to do with that part. Yeah, yeah. I think one of the writers is, he grew up in Minnesota, and so I think maybe he just was observant and saw that that was a big part of it. But I don't think he is like, cause he was asking me questions

about like what to call a Bible study. Oh really? Yeah. Wow, you fakers. Was he Lutheran? Cause you grew up Lutheran. I grew up really Lutheran, yeah. And we went to Lutheran school for,

I went to a Lutheran church for a minute. You know, cause we- For a minute? Yeah, and we went to Lutheran school for I went to a Lutheran church for a minute, you know for a minute, yeah kind of because my When my mom remarried my stepfather Remarry is no which you remarry when she remarried my stepfather was was Swedish So it's not I so there's Swedish in there not even bloods, you know Yeah, you got a lot of a lot of Swedish cred. lot of, a lot of lutefisk on the holidays. Oh God. My mom really liked that stuff.

And it was so nasty. Is your mom Swedish or? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, pickled herring. Yeah, there's almost nothing besides the pancakes. Yeah, the rye bread is pretty good. Oh, that's true, limpa, yeah, yeah. That is true.

And you know, actually some of the, I used to, there was a Swedish neighborhood in Chicago and there was, I worked seasonally for UPS. And when we deliver to this Swedish deli, they would give us food. And it seemed like every Swedish sausage just was like a different shape of bologna. It all just tastes like bologna.

I mean, I don't have anything really that's bologna. Oh yeah, I'll gnaw on that sausage. Sure, why not? And listen, I always get the lunch at IKEA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too. I like those Lincoln berries. Right, exactly. I mean, was it a pretty, like, was your household,

like, was there a lot of cultural Swedish things going with the Lutheran stuff? No. No. Were they really religious at home, though? Super. Super religious. Yeah, the religious thing was huge. The Swedish thing was not really. And when did, and did that extend to, like, like, no swearing, no drinking, no, you know, like?

No. No. I mean, my parents weren't big drinkers, but it my mom would you know She would have like a glass of wine and then it would be too much and you wake up on the next day And there'd be half a glass of wine in the fridge like in the wine glass, right? Save that for later. It's always good the next especially on Cork yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't think it was like starting out so great. Right exactly exactly Yeah, half cough syrup to begin with. But we could like dance and stuff, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it says here it's a very Lutheran sort of area in Texas. Texas? Yeah. Well, yeah, there were some German, like, founders. Oh, some founders, yeah. Like they call the Hill Country Fredricksburg. Right, right. That kind of thing, yeah. What do you think, like, yeah, like they call the hill country Frederick's Berg, right? Right thing. Yeah, what do you think like because but it was mainly Catholic, you know, it was me. Yeah Yeah, it denominationally like do you feel like there's a difference between say like Lutherans and Methodists or Presbyterians or anything like that? I'm not really yeah. I mean I kind of I mean I've Protestant light

Yeah old people always would joke about like well, that's a methodist way to and I'm like I kinda, I mean, I've- Protestant light. Yeah, old people always would joke about like, well, that's a Methodist way to, and I'm like, I always was like, what does that even mean? You know? I mean, if you get like real in the weeds, you can find some differences, but for the most part, no.

Yeah, yeah. And you, growing up, you sort of, you went to a Lutheran school, and you got a degree in theology. Is that, is, are you still a believer? Like, do you have like a heavy belief in? Me. Me.

Me. Me. Is this just because you think your parents might listen, that you're squeaking? Well, my husband's Jewish. Oh, OK. And I'm gay. Right. So it's not like. I figured. Yeah. Oh, okay. And gay. Right.

So it's not like... I figured. Yeah. Oh, all right. I guess I don't pass. When you name the book Actress of a Certain Age, that's a bit of a tip off. And then you're wearing a babushka on the cover. That's genuine Hermes.

Just one more factoid to let you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to keep... Yeah, to let you know that you're really working hard to pass. Exactly. Super fudge. That's genuine Hermes, fucker. I still, I like the idea of the ritual and the community. And I have so many friends who are pastors and who are doing like really good work.

They're not the kind of people that you see on TV who are like, you know, making trans people erased or whatever. So I still believe in that sense, but like, I'll go real woo woo and you know, I'll have a tarot reading or a... Yeah, yeah. Right, right.

Sure, it's fun. Yeah, exactly. And a little spooky. Ooh! Yes, exactly. Yeah, because I always... It is interesting. And I actually just saw something, a clip on the internet, but like that...

You're on the internet? Yes, I do. I get the internet just at my house though. Not out in the world. It's too distracting. I would be in car wrecks every day if I could get the internet outside of my house. No, that, that kind of the evangelical turn of the Republican party has ruined both the public Republican party and evangelicalism. Yeah.

Like, like there's so many people that, and the sort of the notion that people are saying that they have no religion now, they're saying, they're figuring out in further polling, it's in reaction to the destruction of the Christian religion by insane people. Well, even when you said that, like it wasn't really about my parents hearing it,

it was about the public hearing it. I don't want people to be like, you know he's a Christian. Oh, you're worried about that? It's not the non-believer, it's the stuff about being a Christian. Well, it's just that they've given Christianity such a bad name.

My mom was this great Christian who was like super compassionate and believes in helping poor people. And it's like all about, you know, loving your neighbor. And when I came out, she was completely supportive. And, but like you never, like that's why the show is so revolutionary, the TV show, is because it shows that side of Christianity, which is like prolific and all over the country,

but doesn't get any sort of airtime or airplay. And that, well, and it's also, for me, the thing about the show that's always amazing, having grown up in a small town is like the fact that there's so many people being openly happily gay in a small town because I just feel, and I haven't lived in a small town in 40 years or something, you know?

So what do I know about what the current state is? But in my recollection, it's like, oh no, that, you know, that wouldn't, you know, like you having a boyfriend that you leave for another boyfriend within a small town, it's like, no, I think it's pretty much you get, you get the other gay, you know? Like that's who you get much you get the other gay. You know? Like, that's who you get to date the other one.

I do think in that sense, the options are limited. But you know, that internet thing really has... That is true. That is true. See, that's why I say, I have a very antiquated idea of the small town. And we went to Manhattan, Kansas, the town that the show takes place in.

Which is kind of a medium-sized city. It's not really tiny. And it's a university town, too. And we went to The Chef, which is like the restaurant that the people in the show go to. And there was a trans man there. And there were a couple lesbian couples. So it does, it is true.

I think you can't be quite as out loud there, maybe. And you have to, you know, code't be quite as out loud there, maybe, and you have to code switch and make sure that you're in certain spaces, you have to tone it down or whatever, but I don't think it's completely... As terrible as it used to be. Yeah, yeah. Or as like, I mean, it just,

the phrase in my research about your childhood was mercilessly bullied. Yeah, that's true. I like that someone wrote that down. Jesus. It says, said he was quote, very obviously gay, unquote, as a kid and was quote, mercilessly bullied, unquote. These notes are a hate crime.

And then a smiley face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Often shit his pants as a baby. Often air quotes, shit his pants. Well, that wasn't even in the book, but it's true. It's true, it's true. No, I mean, because it is, you do want to believe that it, and like you said, you want to believe first of all, that there are still loving, open-hearted

Christian people that follow Christ. Right. Yeah, you do. You know, I was hungry and you fed me, I was naked and you clothed me, like that there are still those Christians and not the, you know, get these fuckers out of here kind of Christians. Right. But it gets harder and harder to believe. And

the same way that you want to believe that there's open-minded small towns, open-minded small town people that are open-minded to different races and different orientations. But it's hard to believe. It can be hard. It's hard not to be cynical in the world. Oh, God. Well, yeah, especially right now. Yeah, yeah. Because it's just like every day, there's just an onslaught of like, just sort of like ridiculously obvious hate. Just like not even, yeah.

Yeah, where it's just like artless. Yeah. Like taking away the Harvey Milk name from that ship where they're just like, let's do it at Pride. Yeah. Honestly. Evil.

And also changing the name of ships. Who gives a fuck about what the ship... Name the ship Denny. Who cares, you know? Fuck it. Oh, I do. And Denny knows why. Denny knows why.

Uh... Denny. And then he knows why. Uh... And then he... Can't you tell my love's a-growing? You still had in your mind though that you were gonna, you know, do theology growing up. I mean, you did plays and stuff, right? You were an actor. Yeah, yeah. But you know, because I was so obviously gay, I mean, you know it. You pegged it. Uh-huh. We have a shirt on that says big gay

I thought that was hummah The name of the designer Exactly, um, well because I was always just like the farmer in the background clapping, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they never gave me like lead roles, but I knew I loved performing. Yeah.

And I was good at it. Yeah. But I just didn't think you could be an actor. Less because of gay, but just because of gay. Right. Because I was gay, but because of like, I don't know. I didn't know anybody. I completely relate.

It seemed like saying you wanted to be an astronaut. Yeah, exactly. It's like, what do I know? I can't be an astronaut. Exactly, I didn't know anybody who had ever done that. Yeah, I didn't even know anybody who'd done like community theater. It was so foreign to me.

So it took me a long time to admit that I wanted to do that. And I saw an interview, I think it was with Seth Meyers that you were on where you were like the reason that you weren't a minister and you made a joke of it kind of like, well, duh, like because you were gay. And do you really think that that was like something that held you back as a minister?

Because there's gay clergy, you know, and there's liberal Lutheran churches in different places. Yes. And if I wanted to be a pastor now, I could be. Oh, really? Yeah. The denomination that I'm a part of would allow that now. Okay.

But at the time, you had to be celibate. But if you were straight, you could be married. And I thought that was rude. In the Lutheran Church? Is it Missouri Senate? No, it was ELCA, but this was in 1997. So it changed, I think, in the early 2000s, where they had this covenant

where now you can have openly gay clergy. But at the time, you had to be celibate if you were openly gay. Wow. And it just felt like, I'm gonna do that. What about jerking it? Do they have a clause for jerking it? I'm sure they do, but I didn't get that deep into the...

And no jerking it. Like, come on. You gotta give me something. . Dear God, might I jerk it? Send me a sign. Send me a sign. Send me a sign. Oh, look at this computer.

Thank you, God. Wow, that sign was easy. God wouldn't have made the art internet if he didn't want me jerking it. He sure wouldn't have, yeah. Search engines are so complete and so particular. I should have called this book Jerkin' It. CHUCKLE Jerkin' It.

And then it's on the goo and on the cover, mid-jump. Jerkin' It. CHUCKLE So how do you go from graduating with a degree in theology to then fulfilling your show business dreams. Well, I spent three years doing sort of direct care social work. Oh, really? Where I worked at a shelter for homeless.

In Texas or? No, Denver, Colorado. In Denver, okay. I did sort of like a churchy AmeriCorps. Okay. And then I worked in public health where like I fully worked in the STD clinic. Oh, wow. And then...

Like dealing with patients or... Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Wow. In Denver again. Yeah. Yeah. Just men who have sex with men.

Right. Which I always thought was sort of a weird way to talk about them. It's like, that's sort of the main sticking point. If you're not going to identify as gay or bisexual, are you gonna identify as a man who has sex with men? Well, and also, too, that's probably outdated now because of the definition of men. Gender and identity, exactly.

Yeah, it was a different time. Yeah, yeah. Penises. 1999. Penises and anuses only. Thank you. Like, it's on your office door. That was on my office door. If you have something other than a penis or an anus, get out. But that was just the's on your office door. That was on my office door. If you have something other than a penis or an anus,

get out. But that was just the brand name of the door. Oh, okay. Penis and anus. Oh yeah, old door company out of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Out of stuff. Yeah, out of Boulder.

Penis and anus. That was their name. That would be such a good old comedy duo. It's penis and anus, penis and anus. Bunk, bunk. Where in ya? Yeah. So, but why Denver? I'm just out of curiosity.

Because there was this program called The Urban Servant Corps that I sort of fell in love with because it was all like living in intentional community and I thought it would be like a Jesus commune, but it wasn't. We just fought about peanut butter and then prayed about it, you know? Yeah. And so your faith was still really driving you

at this point. Yeah, I hadn't given up on God just on the church. I hadn't really even given up on the church. I'd given up on, I just felt like that wasn't my calling, was to be a pastor anymore because of that. Because I wanted to have a relationship. Right, of course. Yeah, and I mean, it is absurd.

And I mean... Also, I would have been a bad pastor. How come? Selfish? -♪ Hey. Hey, fam. -♪ Don't really care about people. Yeah, yeah. Very judgmental. Well, I would have been good at that part. Most of us dress for church.

But you do what you want, Mary. Cute hair. Um, anyway, the blood of Christ. Yeah, yeah. Anyhow, here's the host. I would've been good at the, like, listening to people, but I would've been bad at the, like, you have to do so much organizing

and being a committee leader and forethought and making a budget and crap like that that I would have been terrible at. Yeah, that's anything. I've kind of figured out too, like anything as I got to be an adult where it's like, oh meetings, that's where you feel your life slipping away from you.

Like meetings are the worst. Yeah, and it's like 80% of a pastor's job is meetings. Absolutely. That's like, um, any sort of notion of like political, cause I mean, I'm interested in politics and I always have been, and I have had people say to me like, you would, you should do something, run, run for office or something. And I'm just like, it's just meetings. It's one fucking PTA meeting after another.

And then reading detailed bills. Yeah. Oh yeah. Which you can't get through. That's why all these people are not, I don't know where I voted for that. Yeah, I don't know where I voted for that. I'd be two paragraphs in and then just ask my assistant, what is it about? Okay, thanks.

Exactly. Which I'm sure that's the way most of it goes. 100%. But yeah, the meetings and the asking for money too. Oh God. So what happens to make you go, all right, enough of helping others, I wanna take some improv classes.

That's how I'm gonna show my- I know you don't have anywhere to go or a home, but I've gotta make fart jokes in the basement of a Gristini's. I need to yes and life, which is saying no but to you. Exactly. Goodbye. Yeah, yeah.

I did feel a little guilt about it. I told everyone I was going to get my master's in social work at NYU, but I knew I was gonna take classes at the UCB. So did you attempt? Did you go to NYU or was that just... I got accepted, but I deferred for a year. And I was like, if I make it as an actor in this year, I won't have to go to social work school.

But like, three weeks in, I was like, I'm not gonna make it in a year, so I'm just gonna defer for two years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, I'm on year, whatever, 25. Also, that place is expensive. NYU? If I had gone there, I would be in so much debt right now. Yeah, yeah.

It was like $100,000 a year. Oh, I know, I know. My son went there for his first year of school and it's jaw-droppingly expensive. I know, and then you get out with a social work degree. Right, right. You know, that famously money-making job. Right, exactly, exactly. They give you, it's like, they dig a giant hole

and then they give you like a spoon to fill it up. Here you go. I'll fill that up. All right. Oh good. And also it's like the most stressful job in the world too. So it's. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, a lot of, when you get your masters, a lot of times you go into like one-on-one therapy, but I don't know. Yeah. That would be hard too. My aunt was a, she had her MSW and she was a social worker and her husband ended up being like a dean of social work school.

So I know that business sort of, and yeah, it is. It's really, let's just say they both drank a lot. It seems like a job where you really need to blow off steam at the end of the day. To numb. Yes, yes, yes. Problems problems. Everyone's problems.

Glug, glug, glug. Glug, glug, glug. Yeah. So, so immediately you get to UCB. Is it UCB that you started at? Yeah. In New York. And what year is this?

2001. 2001. And it's just, that's it, right? Yeah. I was really good at it right away. Oh, well of course. Really? No, sure.

I was surprised. No, no. I mean, I bet you are. You're funny, you're fast. Yeah. I had done short form and I thought long form was like fancy. No, no. It isn't.

It just, you stay up there longer. Yeah, exactly. You know? You stay up there, and sometimes you step back to take a little break, but yeah. Unless you're really broken inside, then you're at the front of the stage the entire hour. I had to, my one thing I had to really learn about was like being polite.

And after, I was on a team where people were just constantly tagging you out. And so then I became like, I was the injured person who was just out on the front all the time just because I was like, if I don't do this, I'll never be here. Oh, really? You felt that pressure? Yeah.

Didn't you? You know, for some reason I didn't. And because I don't know... I think I behave like in reaction to people a lot. You know, like if I'm, if there's something, if I'm in a room of people and there's something that is like hovering over us all that makes us nervous, and one person is really, really nervous, I feel like, oh, they've soaked up all the nervousness. So now I don't have to be nervous.

And I felt like the need to be noticed, like there were so, you know, like there are so many people that are just like, just from the get-go, they're, you know, and they're not even like really following the improv rules, like, cause they're, they have gimmicks that they pull out strictly cause they know it works. And you're not supposed to do that.

And I always felt like, all right, honey, you go out there and you go get it and I'll wait here. And then I'll find a moment to come in and say three words and, you know, top you anyway. Well, that is kind of how I was too. But I kept getting notes where it was like, you were only in the group games or whatever You need to get out there more and so then I was like I want to follow rules, right? I

Was scolded exactly now I feel alive And so then I was like look at me daddy No, who are your teachers by the way who like Who, like... Oh, let's see. Will Hines, do you know Will Hines? I know Will Hines, yeah. Billy Merritt. Nice. Sean Conroy. Yeah, yeah.

Sean Conroy told me that I was in his worst class he ever taught. My level 101. And I'm really proud of that. Did he mean it, like, he didn't mean it. He obviously told you because he felt like you were... Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you had the unfortunate luck of the draw. It was were... Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, no, no. Like you had the unfortunate luck of the draw.

It was sort of a weird class. Yeah, yeah. And you made it out. I did. I did. I did. It happened... We were in that class when 9-11 happened, if that... Oh, wow. It was a weird class.

It was a weird time. It was a weird time. It sure was. How did you like living in New York? I still live there. No, but I mean, I mean, you know... Oh, when I first moved? Yeah, yeah. I loved it.

Was Denver like urban enough that you didn't feel sort of overwhelmed by it? Yeah, it's a smaller, I mean, obviously it's a smaller city. But I was living like in downtown Denver. So it felt urban. Okay. But yeah, living in New Denver, so it felt urban. But yeah, living in New York felt a little bit more like anonymity, which has its pros and cons. It's not all bad.

But what I loved about it was it felt like, this is where everything's happening. Yeah, yeah. Was it better for your dating life too, to move to New York? No. No? No. Wow. No.

Wow, all right, let's just move on. The show isn't supposed to be a bummer. I was doing UCB, you know? Oh, right, right. And I was doing it like five nights a week. I was so, I was addicted to it. And so, and I was like the only gay person there. It was like a rural little-

Really the only gay person? Well, then there'd be like one or two others. Yeah, yeah. And you'd be like, are you my husband? And they'd be like, no, bitch, get away. Every time.

As a friend, my friend Ben Zook was in a gay bar once and he like was up getting a drink and then there was like a guy getting a drink next to him and he just like looked and he said, their eyes met for like one second and the other guy went, oh, in your dreams queen. He's like, okay, sorry. Happy pride everyone.

Happy pride everyone. Yeah, yeah. So just for one second, hadn't even like clocked who the person was or how they looked or anything. Just, in your dreams, queen. And then that became like a catchphrase. In your dreams, queen. That really scans with my experience as well. Is it? Yeah, yeah.

Because you know, especially at gay bars, it's like all you have to go on is like how you look. Yeah. You know, they don't know that I'm like, very witty. Yes, yes. And how are they gonna know that with that loud music? Loud, loud music. Exactly, I'm throwing out Bond mods right and left

but nobody can hear it. What? ["Can't You Tell My Love's A Girl?" by The Bumblebee Boys plays.] Can't you tell my love's a girl? Exactly. It's a real cross to be going in with an asymmetrical face into a gay bar. I know. No, it does really, like, I, in some level, like, well, like in one sense, I once went to Disneyland with, you know, Andy Daly.

Yeah. Andy Daly and I went to, took our daughters to Disneyland and it just happened to be on gay day. And so the whole park was like full of gay men and women. And there were so many women, so many straight moms came up to Andy and they're like, does your daughter have enough sunscreen? Like, you know, like us gay dads

were so stupid about sunscreen. But I did- And they were all lesbians, right? No, no, no, these would be straight moms. These weren't like lesbian moms. But there was a, there was at the, which is no longer there, the all you can eat ribs and chicken barbecue restaurant

where they bring you literal buckets of ribs and chicken barbecue restaurant where they bring you literal buckets of ribs and chicken. We walked by there and there was a big table of bears of like big burly gay men just getting buckets and I just was like, okay, that does seem like an advantageous situation for me. Just a little on the nose. Yeah, like if I could fuck big fat guys, I think I'd do just fine. But then on the other hand, on the other hand, I do feel like it's so hard to be gay and not perfect.

Like, they're so... And from gay friends of mine talking about it, like about themselves, like, you know, it's like this beauty standard that's... I don't know, it's not as bad as... Because it's not as universal as it is for women, but it's a similar thing. It's a similar breed. I think it's just dudes, you know? It's like having to date dudes.

Dudes are very visual or whatever. They sure are. And yeah, and a lot of them aren't real deep. I don't know if you've noticed that. Maybe. Um, but I also think that, um, I feel like younger generations are being more like weird and gnarly and more comfortable with like saying like, you know, I, whatever.

Like in my, when I was coming out and coming up, like in the late 90s, early 2000s, it was all like, you had to kind of feel like you were, like you chopped up Banana Republic and you were thin, and you had abs and you were masculine presenting. And now it feels like you can... Do whatever the fuck you want. Yeah.

It's nice. Yeah, that's better. I mean, probably not in Alabama. Right. No. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe, I don't know. That's the asterisk on everything. not in Alabama. Right. No. Yeah, yeah. That's the question. Or maybe. I don't know. That's the asterisk on everything. Not in Alabama.

Maybe like in the cute, arty parts. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it is. Yeah, I imagine. And it just, well, it is undeniable. And I think, honestly, it's like, not necessarily just because of gayness, but it's one of the reasons why there's this kind of backlash is because things are so much better. Yeah.

Like, you know, there has been so much progress made. And the fact that, like, within our lifetimes, you know, like on Melrose Place, there was a gay kiss that was off camera, you know, like, and it was like, it was promoted. Like, oh, there's this gay kiss, it's this huge thing. And then, like, when you two it in, it's like their faces get close, and then, I don't know, they cut away to a fountain. They pan, yeah.

To a fountain. Yeah, yeah. It's very like a haze coat. Or like Ellen's sitcom. Like her coming out on that sitcom, and how mild and almost kind of like quaint and silly it seems now, you know, and how powerful it was then. God, it was huge.

That's in one lifetime, you know? Yeah, exactly. And I just went to this documentary. Oh, God, I'm forgetting the name of the documentary. But I went to it at New Fest. It was from the Makers of Disclosure, and it's about the first, the Supreme Court case that the first trans lawyer argued in front of the Supreme Court. And they were saying that the reason there is all this backlash against trans people

now is because they had made such great strides. And it's so obviously about fear. And it's also about like, oh, you don't know any trans people. That's why you're so scared of them. Like, if you met a trans person, you'd be like, oh. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, Janet used to be John? Oh, okay.

Right. Exactly. It's just, it's about... Yeah, fear. And I know this is sort of a judgmental word, but ignorance. Yes. Well, and also... the cynical manipulation of people's attention towards hating another. That's true. You know, which has just been... It's like, in some ways, we're such wonderful creatures, and in other ways, we're just the same fucking dummies that fall for the same nonsense over and over and over again.

I know. That's why whenever I watch zombie shows, I'm always like, why are the people who aren't zombies fighting with the people who aren't zombies? Yes, yes, right, right, right. You have this common enemy. Yes, yes. Just unite, stop fighting. You guys aren't gonna eat each other's brains.

Exactly. But those guys will. But I guess that's how it would work. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So. Kaitlyn Dever. Uh-huh.

Kaitlyn Dever. She knows what she did. She does know what she did. Yeah, Kaitlyn Dever. Uh-huh. Katelyn Dever. She knows what she did. She does know what she did. Yeah, that show is... And I understand that show is, like, holding to the strictures of a game. And after the last episode, we're talking about The Last of Us, for those who don't know. At the end of the season, I actually went on Wikipedia

just to be like, what happens? Like, I'm not happy with what happened and it's kind of too open-ended for me. I like closure. So I went and a total spoiler, you know, to like what happens and then the final chapter of the game. But yeah, I was not, I did not like the way that that sort of, because it's already like in watching this season, Yeah, I was not, I did not like the way that that sort of... Because already, like, in watching this season, like in the first episode, just feeling like,

oh yeah, right, oh, this is the show where every episode, I get to worry about the people I like getting murdered. You know, like where I just, where, like out of 60 minutes, about 38 of them are spent in absolute, like where I just, where like out of 60 minutes, about 38 of them are spent in absolute like anxiety. And ever since we lost Ned Stark, we really are like, we sure are. Contracts mean nothing. Nothing.

They'll put a Pedro Pascal up there and then take him right away. The Lord David Pedro and HBO take it away. Okay, yeah, we'll get some flashbacks, but it's not the same. It's sad now. Before it was just fun. Well, when do you start to feel like you're making some traction and that you really do not have to go back to grad school? Just when I got the show. Oh, really? Yeah, the show. Oh, really? Yeah, like 2021.

Oh, really? Really? We shot the pilot in 2019. I see. And then I don't know if you heard, but in 2020 things were weird. Did you hear? Oh, what was that? Some boy band broke up or something?

Yeah, something like that. No, no. Yeah, yeah. So it just got put on hold. For a year and a half. We were waiting. Oh, that's awful. We got picked up on March 6th, 2020 like that. No, no, yeah, yeah. So it just got put on hold. For a year and a half. We were waiting. We got picked up on March 6th, 2020. Right. And I'm sure they paid you enough to live on for a year and a half. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sure. Um, they did give me enough, which this was so kind, they gave me enough so that I could keep my SAG health insurance, which was like a godsend. Oh, my God. Thank God. Yeah. It was such a godsend. But, I mean, you had done guest spots up to that point. Yeah, but I was still teaching improv.

I was still temping occasionally. And if I hadn't gotten a commercial or like, cause you know, like one year in 2017, I shot four guest spots. Yeah. Those four days of work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Out of 365.

So, you know, it's not enough to cobble together a livelihood. And I did stand up too, so I would make money from that. Did you like stand up? Do you like stand up? Yeah, I do. I'm very much like an alt comic. I play too. Like I'm never gonna do a 10.30 PM.m. show. I understand. Yeah, yeah.

You're not gonna, you know, be in the comedy condo with, you know, three guys named Josh. Zanies. Yeah. No. No, I'm not a, whatever, a road dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh, your mom's into me? Great. I'm like, oh, your mom's into me? Great.

Thank you very much. I forget to check the merch table. I'll be there. My mom loves your show. And they're like, you're my age. Yeah. Well, somebody's watching. Exactly.

That's all that matters. Yeah, cause standup is, I mean, I've talked about it on here a hundred times. But yeah, I dabbled in it, but I just found out, I found I didn't, what I liked about performing was being, was the people that I was on stage with. Yeah, it's really lonely. Yeah, yeah.

And I just, cause I, and that's another thing, it's like, I don't know, maybe my, I mean, I'm not saying my parents did a good job, but they did a good enough job. I'm definitely not saying your parents did a good enough job. They did a good enough job that like that sort of, that approval of a faceless crowd, you know, that sounds enough. It's no, it's just, it's fine. That's beautiful.

I guess my parents failed. You know, it's fine with me, but it's not what I'm there for. And I actually don't even really, I prefer working on camera. I prefer no audience, you know? Right. I actually kind of like that better because, you know,

especially with comedy, so much of it is, and I sound like a Friar's Club guy, it's timing, but I mean, so much of it is timing that you're inviting this just force of nature into the timing of the show, through laughter and whatever kind of things, so that it's like, I do like better that you can control, it's just a more controlled environment. You're all about the edit. About the edit, yeah.

And also kind of the camaraderie of a set. I like that a lot too. And I imagine, I imagine. I love that too. I imagine that somebody somewhere was like a dream set. Yeah, because we all kind of knew each other. We like lived together and stuff. And you were in suburban Chicago, right? Yeah

Warrenville, right? Yeah, that's what my family's all from there. Oh, yeah, just not Warrenville specifically, but in that area is that's my Childhood. Oh, that's so fun that area. Yeah. Yeah, we stayed in Naperville one season and Glen Ellen Yeah, Lamont. Yes, Lamont, yeah. You know, those are all, I delivered cabinets for my mother's business all over that area. Like I, you know, I like used to, I knew all those from driving trucks and delivering cabinets and also-

Your mom was a cabinet maker? She was a designer. No, a designer, a designer and a contractor. A kitchen designer. Yeah, yeah. Kitchen design, but she also then got to the point where she was doing some subcontracting. Holy crap. On larger jobs.

That's so impressive. But I mean, there are these like, she sold high-end custom cabinetry. So you're doing everything but building it. You're designing it to spec and it's not just- Measuring within an inch of its life. Yeah, yeah. And different sort of, you know, and fancy custom things, right?

And she did, she had jobs. Lazy Susans. Yeah, yeah. Or just, you know, like, well, in those days too, and my mom's, my mom was very good at her job because she's kind of no-nonsense and she did have pretty good taste, but like now she still is kind of, you know, you get your taste and it's kind of stuff.

Like she's very much in the like three layers of crown molding kind of stage and she never got out of it. Like everything, you know, everything looks like Downton Abbey, you know? Well, that's just her taste. Yeah, that's just her taste, but it's kind of, you know, it's... Ornate. Yeah, yeah. Well, not really. It's kind of, it's still pretty butch, but it's just butch ornate.

You know, and if you saw any of my mom's fleece vests, you know what I mean. I just hit my face on the microphone from that. Vests, you know what I mean But but yeah, that was in my whole and it's like when I watch the show too It just seems right. It's so I feel so at home and all those different little places Limestone building. Yeah. Yeah.. Yeah, and we went to Kansas and it does look a lot like that too. It's just, yeah. It's that perfect Midwestern vibe. Yeah, yeah.

I was reading Bob Odenkirk's book during season three and he grew up in Naperville. We were staying in Naperville and I was like, this must mean something. I don't know why. I don't know. Nothing, it meant nothing. Oh, it meant nothing? Oh, it know why. No, no, nothing. It meant nothing.

Oh, it meant nothing? Oh, sister coincidence? Oh, okay. I'm just curious too, like at the end of that show, did you guys know it was the end or did you finish hoping that there would be a new? Oh yeah, of course we're always hoping. But also, you know, it's such a small show

that I think at each season they were like, this might be the end. So they tried to make it end on a nice note. I mean, even on season one. Right, right, right. Yeah, cause you never. Yeah, it's just not, it's like the people who watch it, it's so important, but most people don't watch it. About that, did you have,

just anecdotally, people coming to you and telling you how important it was? All the time. Yeah. All the time. I mean, I can walk down the street just fine. But when I am stopped, it's always like, I need to have a moment with you.

You don't understand that kind of a thing. Yeah, yeah. And you know, it's like, if you're gonna have I need to have a moment with you. You don't understand that kind of a thing. And you know, it's like if you're gonna have a tiny bit of fame, that's kind of the perfect way to have it where it's like, you're really meaningful to me. Yeah, and I don't know how you are, but like I don't find meaning in anything I do. You know what I mean?

I feel like if I'm involved in it, it can't be that great. So, I mean, at least most of my life I've felt that. But I've come to in my, now in my sunlight year or sundown years, to feel, you know, people say such, and especially like when the Conan show wrapped up, people said such nice things and they still say such nice things. That was super meaningful for so many, myself included. Yeah, it's really started to sink in. And it is like, okay, good.

I did something. Because you don't know what the future is going to bring. So take it when you can get it. Exactly. How are you folks with what's happened with the trajectory? Were they supportive when you went to New York and started to say, look, I'm gonna teach improv? You know, just like Warren Buffett did? BOWEN Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

They were. They were. I mean, every once in a while, they'd be like, you know, your cousin's in computers. You know, that kind of a thing. But never undermining or anything like that. They were very supportive. And they would come see when I would do like, like my first show in New York I ever did

was called Slut, the musical. And my mom came. Wow. And when I told her about it, she goes... Is she better with it than your dad? Well, she just likes New York better than my dad. Right, right, right, right. But wait, I interrupted. When you told her about Slut, the musical?

She was like, she just deadpaned, oh good, something I can tell the ladies at church. Which I was like, that was a solid joke. Good job. Good job, mom. Yeah, exactly. But she's dead. So she didn't get to see like,

where I was actually making a living living. And I think that would have made her feel a lot safer and better. And she would have loved it. Because one time I was on an improv everywhere video that kind of went viral, and she was reading the comments constantly and calling me and telling me about,

some commenter said, you're very funny. You know, that kind of thing. So she was really deeply into it. Yeah. And is your dad still with us? He's still, yeah. He's still around. But, you know, he's not as impressed with showbiz. I mean, he's like super like, he's impressed with the fact that I can make a living from it.

Right. But that's kind of it. Right, right, exactly. What are the things that he's impressed with the fact that I can make a living from it, right? But that's kind of it Right, right. Exactly. What are the things that he gets impressed with or does he is he like one of those dads? That's just not Yeah, well, he I mean he has explicitly said he's very proud of me So I don't mean to make it sound like he's like some sort of crabapple, but he is a little bit like he's more about like The equity in your home. Oh, yeah, yeah.

You know, that kind of a thing. Finances. Is he, oh, how's the roof on that place? Yeah, yeah. Exactly. 30 years, okay. Okay, well, that oughta last you. It's a lifetime guarantee.

We put a roof on, I'm going to feed first with this roof. Okay. It's a morbid way to look at it, but okay. It sounds like he's on like a Civil War cot. Someone propping up his head and mopping his brow. Not far. Not far. It's very practical. I'll say that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you have siblings? Yeah, I have a sister. You have a sister? Yeah, yeah. And what does she do? She is, oh gosh, she's like a superwoman. She's not only like the head of operations at this event firm, but she also does like decorating

on the side and also crafting on the side. And she like redoes houses and like does property management, does billing for a lawyer. She's like crazy. What is she trying to hide? What is she running from? Vulnerability. Is this in Texas?

Yeah, she's just like got this internal motor that always keep going. Those people are just amazing to me. I know. You know? Yeah, and she's like a mom and has, you know, two great kids. Yeah, yeah.

It's crazy. Sometimes when I'm having a healthy moment of self-reflection, I realize, like, yeah, I'm a pretty productive person, but I still... Like, it's like... I need an app. Yeah, there are people where I'm just like, don't you ever just lay on the couch and like,

flip around the channels to see what's on, you know? Not her. Not her. Wow. Wow. Well, God bless her. Bless her. Or whoever it is, God, whatever. Uh. Ha ha ha.

Are you still a churchgoer? I know I'm all over the map with this, but. No, no. I don't go every Sunday. No. Because my husband's Jewish, so what am I gonna do? Be like, see you later.

Right. I don't trust you. See you later. And also I just never found a place in New York that clicked. Yeah, yeah. I did go for a while in New York, but then it was just sort of... It wasn't the right fit.

Are you still Lutheran or do you go wherever you feel? Oh, I would go to Lutheran, because I like the liturgy. Yeah. I like the pretty music. And you know it. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. You know when to stand and see it. It's complicated. That's where you get into what's different between Methodist and, you know, Presbyterian and stuff. It's complicated. That's where you get into what's different between Methodist and Presbyterian and stuff.

It's the show. Exactly. It's the razzle-dazzle. Absolutely. No, there's so much of like I started, we had a minister, I went to United Church of Christ, a congregational church. When I started to make a decision, I did this, like my brother made fun of me because I was very involved in our church because I liked it and a bunch of my friends were there.

Our minister was really a guy named Larry Rezash. He was an amazing man, gave like incredible sermons, and he became a friend of the family and he used to make jokes to my mom and he would say things like, well, for agnostics like us, like between me and, you know. So it was very much like a humanistic kind of message that he gave. And I found it very inspiring and very thoughtful, you know, and it's like, you know, as a teenager, like you don't get a lot of inspiration, you know? There's not a lot of sort of like spiritual, emotional, psychological motivation that you get.

So it was really nice. And those like mountaintop experiences where you're like, oh, yes, we're all united or whatever. Absolutely. When you go to camp. Yeah, yeah, or just, and just feel good about humanity or something. But I never was burdened by belief. The entire time I was like, I don't know.

It's like really, if I was to be a truck droppin' on me, is it really that much different than a bug getting squashed? In terms of some kind of notion of afterlife, like, nah, you know, it's all just nature and random, you know, organisms splitting. And also too, like the thing I like about agnosticism is the notion that like, you can't know. Right, you know? I feel that way about agnosticism too.

And it's like, so all right, you're right. I can't know, so I'm not gonna worry about it. Right, and in a way it's sort of presumptuous or whatever to be like, oh, I know, this is the real thing. Absolutely, absolutely. What's that word? Not presumptuous, arrogant. Arrogant, same thing.

Yeah. Pretty much, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Websters. You're welcome. Emmanuel Lewis in the corner. You're welcome. Emmanuel Lewis in the corner. You're welcome. Get out of that clock.

But yeah, I don't remember what the point we were making. Oh. As digressions go, Emmanuel Lewis is pretty good. Always about church in New York and if you still go. Um, how did you meet your husband? We met on a website called chemistry.com. Oh really? Which is sort of- I've never heard of that.

Well, I think it's sort of- Defunct? Yeah, or maybe match.com owns it now or something. Oh, I see. But it was like- How long ago? 2008. Oh, okay.

Or late 2007, early 2008. And they were like, they were like eH Harmony, but they let gay people join. So it was like all of these questions, and you had to write essay questions back and forth. And it was very Victorian. It was very like, you know, and then the Dowager and she'll escort you to drinks. Right, right, right.

Yeah, it took like three months of communication before you could meet. Wow. Yeah, it was really intense it took like three months of communication before you could meet. Wow. Yeah, it was really intense. And like long, long things written back and forth. Essay questions. Now, what do you say before you can meet? They can't stop you from just saying,

like, here's my phone number. I guess, yeah, you could have put that in the essay. Right, right. By the way, here's my phone number. Get me out of here. Maybe they scanned for it. I don't know. Yeah. It's true. Attica. I don't know, but it was really...

I guess you could have. We didn't. We followed the rules. I like to follow rules. So when did you... Were you guys both in New York when you met? Yeah. And he's like a visual artist. There's no way we would have met. We didn't even have any Facebook friends. Overlap or anything. Yeah. So what was it like when you finally, I mean, because it is kind of a romantic way to...

To meet. ...to get it started. Writing letters? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was good. And this weird thing happened where the night before, he had volunteered at a shelter for women at a Jewish synagogue,

and I had volunteered at a shelter for women at a Jewish synagogue and I had volunteered at a shelter for men at a Lutheran Church and it felt like it's meant to be. Wow. Yeah. Right, it's like the Capulets and the whatever's Montagues. Yeah. I guess except for we didn't die. I guess. Yeah, I don't know. But still, star-crossed lovers in their separate camps. Is there poison in this? You know, and also that the well-known animosity between the Lutherans and the Jews, they're constantly feuding. Yeah, they're really coming for the Lutherans specifically.

A lot of sword fights in the street over it. I know. I'll mail a letter to your door. Die, Shixa... With my saber. Um... And so how soon did you know, like... Or were you already sort of like on your way to being in love? No.

It was less... Yeah. Yeah. Well, I had some really rough dating experience. Like at one point I went on a date with a guy, and we were just talking, and the waiter came over to take our order, and he said, we're not gonna order anything, this isn't a match.

And he got up and left. Oh, fucker. And like, one time I was on a prank show, where I was being like a bad gay date, and so I was supposed to be whiny on the date on the prank show, and it was Spoiling Points, I don't know if you remember that show, but it was like,

it sounds familiar. You had to make somebody mad. If they didn't get mad, they won a hundred bucks. Oh, I see, I see. And I was like the bad gay date, but like not one, but two people came in and just looked at me and were like, this isn't gonna work.

Oh my God. I was always a little on Tinder hooks, you know? Yeah, yeah. And so I, so with him, well, I, um, so with him... Well, first of all, he didn't leave right away. But, um, we just, like, got to know each other, and he was really... both compassionate and also really smart.

Way smarter than me. And I found that, you know, neurotic. And, um... Did you say neurotic? You said it so quietly. Well, he was neurotic too, but that's not what I said. I said, neurotic. Uh...

Ha! Uh... But he, um... I don't know, he just stuck around, and I was dating a couple people at once, and one guy, like, came to kiss me, and I was like, uh... I don't want that. I want that.

So that's what I knew. And to stick with him. And now it's 18 years later, and... He came to kiss me and I was like, uh. Yeah, yeah. I don't want that, I want that. So that's what, that's what I knew. Yeah. And to stick with him. And now it's 18 years later and. That's great. Yeah, we're doing our thing. Do you guys have any, any desire to have children or?

He doesn't. Yeah, yeah. Well, he doesn't. Um. Um. That's something that I've really had to like, you know, mourn and get over. Like, I didn't... I wasn't sure if I wanted them, and then during the pandemic, I was like, oh, no!

Yeah. But, um, you know. Yeah, yeah. The ship done sailed. Right again. Unless you just bring one home. What could he do? You're right. I'm gonna just go over to Gelson's and find one.

Playgrounds. They're all kinds of kids, I suppose. But I want them tiny. I want them real tiny. I'm gonna get in there when they're still young and impressionable. Right, before they can really escape. You go get me one of them baby shit.

It's my holly hunter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You go get me one of them baby shit. Well's my holly hunter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You go get me one of them baby shit. Well, that's, I mean, that's a shame, but I mean, but I, you know, that's... Yeah. What are you gonna do? Well, that's like, I mean, that's kind of what it's not to be like turning it around to like selling my book.

Well, but that's what they tell you to do. You were supposed to have named the title of it 30 times by now. Well, that's what Actress of a Certain Age, My 20-Year Trail to Overnight Success, is all about. But it kind of is, it's about, like, you know, you think your life is gonna be one way. Yeah. And then you get to that point of your,

you know, you're becoming, you're becoming, and then you're like, mama became. And you're like, oh, it's not like my life is bad, but it's really different than what I expected. Yeah. And how do I deal with that? How do I keep moving through? And that's just life. How did you, how did the book start?

Like, did you have the idea? Did someone approach you to write a book? Yeah, somebody came up. Because I had given an interview where I said I had a writers group, and this agent approached me and said, I heard you say you have a writers group. I think you have a book in you. And I was like, I do have a book in me.

Yeah, yeah. So start digging. And most of it's my stand-up material that I've sort of expanded. Oh, nice. Nice, nice. So you felt like it was already kind of part way there? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, you have to... Right, flesh it out. I didn't just copy paste.

Sure, I know. And I'm not saying you did. God, stop coming for me. So touchy. So touchy. Ah, you doff protest too much, lady. All right, I copied and pasted. I always write out my stand up bits in a Word document.

And then read them. In fact, sometimes I write them out of a Word document. I'm like, I'm going to write them out of a Word document. I'm like, I'm going to write them out of a Word document. I'm like, I'm going to write them out of a Word document. I'm like, I'm going to write them out of a Word document. I'm like, I'm going to write them out of a Word document. I'm like, I'm going to write them out of a Word document. I'm like, I'm going to write them out of a Word document. I'm like, I'm going toed. BOTH LAUGH I always write out my stand-up bits in a Word document of Word. And then read them.

In fact, sometimes I just, I send a hologram. BOTH LAUGH Um, well, uh, in the process of writing it, was there anything that you'd discovered? Like, was there any surprises that... Yeah, I, um, I wrote this chapter about being mercilessly bullied. I think I probably did say that in there. And, um, that chapter was sort of like, obviously I don't, I don't have like a big stand up bit about my being bullied as a kid.

Right, right. Who here's been bullied? Hands up. Put your hands up. I was getting bullied the other day. What's the deal with that? So writing that chapter was like, oh God, it was kind of bad. You know, it was like, it was, it was illuminating. And then I also, I just like went into Google to see like what questions were the most asked about me, you know, like Jeff Hiller is or whatever Jeff Hiller. And it was all like, Jeff Hiller face, Jeff Hiller eyebrows, Jeff Hiller disease.

And I was like, oh, I think people think I'm malformed. Oh, my God. But it's funny, you know, it's funny. And so I was like, I gotta write a chapter about that, I think. So those were the two chapters where I was like, wow, this a chapter about that, I think. So those were the two chapters where I was like, wow, this is not something I realized I would be... I knew I'd be writing about how I used to be a social worker

and take people's blood and how I grew up in the church or whatever. But I didn't expect to have to write a chapter about, um, what's the deal with your face? -♪ PAULA LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, LAUGHS, your face? LAUGHS Unbelievable. But people do say, because I also played a serial killer on American Horror Story. Uh-huh. And that show is like, you wouldn't believe the fans of that show. There's a lot of them.

Yeah. And I imagine they're pretty intense. Yeah, I wouldn't say like, compassion is the first... Yeah. ...word I would use to describe them. It's a bit of a nihilistic show, so yeah. Right, right, right, right. And I was playing a killer. So, like, you wanted to hate me. Um, but there's just a lot of comments that are like...

Jump scare at your face! Like, aww. What the fuck is wrong with you people? But it would... I don't... Oh, God. Why do I keep making love to this mic? Um, I don't hold my self-esteem in my looks, obviously. So it's not that big of a deal, but it was like, oh, this is interesting. I think I need to write about this

because people really are like, what, why do you look like that? And it's because I... It's because I don't have any eyebrows. It looks weird. I don't really have that much of an eyebrow either, you know. I think that's a sweet thing. Yeah. Do you draw them on ever? Right now they are.

Oh really? It's a temporary tattoo. Oh nice. Thank you. Oh you get everything you get in a permanent one? Permanent one? Well yeah, one time I went and I went and she was like drawing them on

and she was like, ah, ah. And then she like grabbed all these paper towels and handed it to me and she was like, you're sweating too much. It's what I had to call it. I'm an artist, sir. And she was so offended.

And then she was like, if I do this, if I do this, you can't sweat for 10 days. And I was like, okay, thank you so much. Goodbye. Yeah, yeah, thank you so much. I was like, I'm not gonna be able to go 10 days without sweat, even if I laid in an air conditioned room for 10 days, I'd probably still crack a sweat.

Right, of course. Do you think, I mean, do you think that... I'm a sweaty person. I have a... It's my father's legacy to me is head sweating. Yes, that's me too. I get it off of my head. I don't get very sweaty in the armpits, you know? And I've never, like, had much of a stinky problem. Same.

But my head... Head and neck, yeah. Do you notice, do you ever do it like, to do the most minor household chore? Like to have to screw in two screws? It's like a fountain is turned on in my brow line to just go whoosh. Yes, it's like Albert Brooks in broadcast news.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Completely, I am exactly the same way. And so because sometimes when I've done these temporary tattoos, sometimes I'll sweat off both of my eyebrows, but one time I sweated off just one of them. And I look so crazy. Everyone just thought you were questioning them constantly.

It's like, what are you, stop being the rock. Oh, that's hilarious. But I didn't notice it until I got home and I was like, oh my God. Yeah, yeah. Do you think that, like, your humor comes from that place? Because, you know, like something like, then there's nothing else to call, like, mercilessly bullied. There's nothing else to call that other than trauma.

And to sort of like turn that trauma into something you can laugh at. Oh, totally. You know, yeah, that's, I mean. Yeah, and it's a coping mechanism too. Yeah, absolutely. It's like, if I make you laugh, you won't hit me. Right, right, right. And I also think it, you know, one-upping the bullies.

Yeah. You know, it's like, I'm laughing. And making them feel stupid. Yeah, I'm laughing at you. Like, you're so unbelievably, predictably, like, base and, you know, just... Exactly. You know, like a grunting animal, you know? Really?

Yeah. That's your first thought he went with? Yeah. It's fun to be withering. And you're an author, not them. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So what's in store for you?

I don't know. I don't know. Hope. Yeah, yeah. So what's in store for you? I don't know. Hope? Yeah, yeah. You know. Yeah. The biz. Keep plugging along? Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I'm doing stuff here and there, but nothing, whatever. The book comes out on Tuesday. Well, that does keep you busy for a while. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, are you gonna go on the tour and go do readings and stuff? Nice. Exactly. Nice, that's good.

And are you a New Yorker for good, do you think? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because of the husband. He's real planted there. Oh, and because of visual art and family. Yeah, and he teaches. He teaches at a university there and stuff, so yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and his family's there, yeah. stuff. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and his family's there, yeah. And New York's a nice place to live. Yeah! No, I mean, no, no, no. I really miss it. I really miss it. How long were you there? I was there for like a year and a half and then,

eight years in a stretch. And then I moved out here and it took a number of years of going back there to not feel like when I landed in New York, like, oh, I'm home. Like I was here for about five years. And every time I'd have to do something there, right, you'd be like, yeah, the car would get into the city and I'd be like, oh, I'm home again, you know?

Yeah. But then it shifts, you know, and it's just, you know, your life is where your life is. Yeah. And there are times when it's like, like when you spend 18 months inside a one bedroom apartment. Yeah. Where you're like,

yeah, yeah, yeah. I could maybe go for a nice hike in Griffith Park. Right, right, a tree or something. Yeah. Or I always found, too, like, when it's really hot and steamy and just that smell of piss everywhere. Oh, my God.

Yeah, like, I think maybe I could... When you walk in the subway and you just get that wave of heat. Of heat. And then the head sweat. Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. When you're wearing a gray shirt and you're like, maybe I'll just sweat all the way through it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. When you're wearing a gray shirt and you're like,

maybe I'll just sweat all the way through it. Oh. What do you think is the main thing, the most important thing you've learned in your life or, you know, like, or if somebody... Like, if you could sort of... Like, if someone sought advice from you, what would you tell them?

I mean, it's cheesy because I guess... I guess those really big pieces of advice are cliche, and it's one of those things where you can't really hear it, you have to, like, live it. But I think not giving up on yourself is, like, the big one. And believing in yourself, even if you've... accidentally aged or... Yeah, yeah.

Or you didn't end up where you thought you would end up or whatever. Like to not give up on yourself and just be like, this is it. Right. I think that that is the biggest thing. Yeah. What's yours? It's gonna be something really slick.

Well, honestly... The best chocolate chip cookies from LeVe! Well, one of my favorites of that question, Padgett Brewster said, you can sharpen scissors by cutting aluminum foil. So I was like, that's a really good answer. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah.

I've tried it and it does, I think it does kind of work, you know? But, and I was asked, I did a live version of this podcast in San Francisco with Rachel Dratch and Somebody asked us both like what would you tell what advice would you give your younger self? And I all I could come up with was learn to love cardio I still stand by that. I just wish I had like I wish I could tell you indoctrinated Myself at an early age to just stand on a fucking treadmill and just deal with it

Also lightweight training. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, like a full bottle of Pepsi you can curl that Well, Jeff the book actress of a certain age my 20 year trail to overnight success Is available everywhere now. I mean, by the time this gets out. Because this won't be out for a couple of years. Oh. It may be in paperback.

So glad I came here. But it's been a joy talking to you. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you for having me. And I've enjoyed your work so much. And the show, you and Bridget's show, I call it you and Bridget's show. The rest of those people were just

clean sheer coattails. Yeah, trash, trash under your feet. If Bridget were here, it would just be Bridget's show, wouldn't it? Right, it sure would. Oh, fuck yes. She's scary. But anyway, thank you so much for coming in.

Thank you for having me. And thank all of you for listening. I'll be back next week with more The Three Questions. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Cocoa production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rich Garcia. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Nick Leow, Adam Sacks and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista, with assistance from Mattie Ogden.

Research by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts. And do you have a favorite question you always like to ask people? Let us know in the review section. Can't you tell my love's a-growing? Can't you feel it ain't a-showin'? Oh, you must be a-knowin' I've got a big, big love This has been a Team Coco production.