The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Jennette McCurdy

Episode Date: August 16, 2022

Jennette McCurdy joins Andy Richter to talk about being a child actor, growing up with an abusive mother, and her new book “I’m Glad My Mom Died.”

hello everyone uh i'm andy richter this is the three questions and i am uh very excited to talk to someone uh mainly because she's to shit talk her dead mother. Who doesn't want that? I've never really had that on this show before. And I finally, my dream comes true. Don't listen to this one, mom. My mom's still alive. But also too, I also am, I have been, I have a 16 year old daughter and a 21 year old son.

I probably have seen every episode of iCarly. No kidding. Honestly. Honestly. And it's a really good show. It's not like I, the reason I watch it is because it actually is, I mean, it's a teen sitcom. Sure. Sure.

Is it creepy for an old man like me to be watching a teen sitcom? Of course. Like, you know, like the one time i watched euphoria i felt so like i was in a van like in a windowless van i did too i watched the pilot and i was like oh i feel is this okay they're like 16 what's going on yeah because my daughter will say it's a great show and i'm like yeah but no you don't want me watching euphoria honey um but well i don't even think it's jeanette mccurdy, who played Sam on iCarly for all those years and on every other dime that Nickelodeon could wring out of the character of Sam.

And I was just, I want to say right off the bat, how, from day one, how impressed I was with how good you are, how good your comedic chops are, and what a good actor you are. And that whole show was, you know, full of and they talk about likability like that's, you know, but it really matters in television. Everybody in that show. So winning, so likable, so great. But you really you understand comedy in an innate way. And you were always just so good. And also you got to play, I mean, a teenage girl who's scary, who's intimidating, who's mean and kind of a bully.

Like, it's like that's got to be a fantasy fulfillment for a lot of young women, you know? So I'm sure there's, you know, a lot of young women love the character of Sam. Yeah. There are a lot of young women who tell me that I helped them in some way developmentally to like accept parts of themselves. And that's always really nice to hear. Their bullying side. Their cruel bullying side. Exactly.

I was so the opposite of that. I was such a like kind of hunched, anxious people pleaser that it did feel kind of I felt cool to live vicariously through through there was something in you like the it was like a secret desire to be that way that made you so good at that character or I mean sure yeah I think there I think I think I I wish that I could get away with with behaving the way that Sam behaved there yeah I was I I did not feel that was uh an accept I was also Mormon so I was just like everything the opposite of right of that character so it definitely seemed like i think there was some wishful filming aspect right right i always find uh showbiz mormons to be weird because it's like you know it's like it's like showbiz orthodox jews it's like i don't think you're supposed to be doing this if you're really sticking to the script that's exactly what kathy huff sister huffmeyer said to my mom. She was like, I don't think Jeanette should be playing a child prostitute in judging Amy.

This is against the church's rules. And my mom would be like, oh, she'll convert people, though. She'll get people converted. Absolutely. Hundreds are beating down the doors of Mormon churches, of LDS churches everywhere. Well, you bring it up. You're Mormon, but you're from Southern California. You were born there.

Yeah, I am no longer Mormon, to be clear, but I haven't filed the paperwork. I hear it's quite a rigorous process to like get out. Oh, really? You've got to file paperwork? You've got to file paperwork. You've got to talk to the bishop of your home ward and some other folks. So I haven't done any of those, but I definitely don't consider myself Mormon anymore. But what hold do they have on you? Like if you start going to a Presbyterian church,

they'll sue or something? They send a lot of materials. They somehow kind of like find every address you go to and like keep sending materials. And then there's something called Baptisms for the dead that they do, which was, Oh,

I've heard about that. Okay. Yeah. So you can like, you can, you can, uh, or what do you call it?

Convert someone in the afterlife. Yes. Who didn't ask? No, these people weren't like wanting for Mormonism and then died. And then they finally get it. It's just like your second cousin, twice removed who

died five years ago or you know random historical figures that they're like baptizing as mormon yeah you're walking around heaven and all of a sudden you got to wear weird underwear it doesn't seem fair i didn't ask for this oh my god my mom would always with the garments she would she didn't like wearing clothes that were as modest as they needed to be in order. Cause they, that your, your clothing needs to surpass your garments. Yeah. They're like kind of an, an indicator of where your clothes need to be. So she would just like roll up the garments so that she could get away with showing a little more skin.

Listen, there, there is such a religious uh history of of cutting corners like every religion has cutting corners you know like whether it's oh i don't know i forget what they call it but in catholic you know like and they're they allowed it now again i can't remember what it's called i'll remember it after we're done talking where you actually can pay money to get out of sins. Like you can just give money for sins. And they outlawed it like in the 1600s. And they just recently quietly reinstated it. I mean, I read an article somewhere like, yeah, we'll take money to let you off your sins again if you want.

Or just the whole Catholic thing of confession was always like in really Catholic area and like people who are super Catholic. It's like you can just be an absolute drunken sex fiend on Saturday. But on Sunday, it's like I'm washed clean. Thanks a lot. You know, such a good deal. Whereas me, the agnostic, I got to carry all this shit around me until the day i die all this guilt all this sin um well anyway um so how you i mean we're here to talk about your book uh first of all and about your life uh and the book is called i'm glad my mom died

so you it's like one of those ones you don't need to really ask about what it's about. I'm guessing it's a memoir. I'm guessing there was some pretty shitty stuff. And I, and I'm also guessing just from your personality and from what I know about you, that you're trying to learn to laugh at it. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's a, it's, it's, it's something that I've fueled our brothers and it's something that all of us, I think, turn to as a coping mechanism and a means of getting through and finding some entertainment through it. Even the day of her funeral, I remember my brother making a joke about, because the pallbearers were bumping the casket into the sides of the doorway. And my brother just making a joke about her rolling out of the casket and

coming down to yell at all of us. And it was just what the moment needed. Like, you know, it was so much better than, than, than just the weight without any of the levity. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of siblings, how did they feel about, about the book and about. They're very supportive. I just, I just got, yeah, I just got dinner with one of my brothers the other day. Um, and they have always been super supportive and very, um, very understanding and they relate to it more than anybody. So they,

they, they get it for sure. They get all of it. Did it, did it take a long time to get to a point where you could be, uh, I mean, because it's a whole ball of wax that you're, that you're admitting and that you're, and that you're making public, but to be able to say, you know, you know, I'm glad my mom died. I mean, you know, like that's, that's a pretty heavy statement in most people's vernacular. You know, I'm with the blackened heart that I have from years of being a smart ass. It's like, no, no, I get it. But I just wonder, did it take a long time to get to that for you? Yeah, yeah, for sure. It took years. I started therapy after my mom, I was 21 when she died. I just turned 30 now. I can't say just anymore. It's been over a month. The cutoff's at a month, right? It's been more than a month. I'm 30. You can say whatever you want. You can say whatever you want. You can say you after she died. And it certainly wasn't like something that I immediately felt. I felt relief when she died and devastation, but I could go

nowhere near accepting that relief because I felt so much guilt about the relief. And it was very, very much a long process to get to the place where I could say that I am glad that she died. And then of course, anytime I would, I'm not going around to parties just spouting that I'm glad my mom died, but anytime I would express kind of how I felt about my relationship with her, I was so often met with, well, you only have one mom or, yeah, but don't you wish she was here? And my thought was always like, no, I don't. I wouldn't have grown as a person. I wouldn't have any semblance of my own identity if she were still here. And so I think this book was sort of a way of me articulating those thoughts in, in that I, that I had, but never, never said out loud. Yeah. I, I mean, I always, it's,

you know, it's kind of like the parental version of America, love it or leave it. It's like, well, it doesn't, it, well, it doesn't, it's not, it doesn't work that way. You know, like you gotta be honest and you gotta, you gotta call abuse, abuse. And it, I just like, I think there's just sort of a drive to people. They don't, they just want, I mean, and it's, it's so tiresome when you're trying to make comedy of like, can't you just be nice can't you just say nice things which there's just that which is just sort of ostrich head in the sand kind of thing but i think also there's there's people that just they think that if they

pull like if they just start to pick at their idea of a loved one, whether it's your parents or your brother or sister, that somehow this whole house of cards will fall and then it'll that'll all be meaningless and all be ruined. And you'll have to confront the fact that this person that you loved was bad. Which is like, well, that's what mental health is. It's being honest about things and being honest with yourself about things. Oh, my God. I love that. Yes. I couldn't agree with that more.

I think mental health has hugely been about honesty for me and not getting eaten up by secrets or not pretending like things are something that they're not um just ending trying to put as much of an end to just the bail and the falsity is as possible yeah continuing to try and do that um for years i also think too that you're doing yourself and the people in your future a big favor because when you protect, when you're like, my mom was a saint or my dad was, you know, was the best. He was perfect. And you overlook bad behavior, abusive behavior, destructive personality traits. You're giving yourself the okay to do those later. Yes.

You know, like you give yourself that like i can be an asshole too because my mother was a saint and this is shit she did and she's a fucking saint so this must be it must be fine for me to lock him in the basement you know oh my god oh my god my whole body just like feels that so deeply like sat up straighter oh my lord yeah yeah so good on you for this book i I mean, I haven't read it yet, but I will. I actually do. I will. Cause it sounds like, well, let's start, let's start at the beginning. Cause it was kind of your mom. I mean, at least with your work stuff, it was your mom's idea to get you in the show business. Yeah. So she had always dreamt of

being an actress. She wanted deeply to be an actress. She would, um, is she from Southern California? So she was sort of seeking it. She is. And she would, she would go to like any live taping of a show that she could sneak in and get tickets to. She, um, would camp outside of Chris Knight's house. He played Peter Brady in the Brady Bunch. Oh my God. She swore they had a relationship, but like, I, uh, I doubt that given,

given the nature of her sort of loftiness. But yeah, she, she really dreamt of being an actress and her parents didn't let her act. So she, she wanted, wanted me to and always lived vicariously through me. And she even, she even pushed one of my brothers into it, but there was more of a kind of demand on me because I think just the, the female connection. Right. Right. You're a little her.

Yes. But you're, right. You're a little her. Yes. But you're, yeah. But you're like, she's in charge of you. Probably more in charge of you than she was of herself, I bet. Yes, yes. Oh my God. A million percent.

I think it was because she couldn't get control of herself and navigate her own experiences. She thought, well, this one's easier to control than i am than i like she couldn't control herself i was easier to control and then i also think she sensed that i was probably more pliable and and influenceable than my than my brothers were yeah i think she just knew she could sense all of that where was your dad in this process was he just kind of he just sleeping yeah just kind of yeah just letting it go because why stay you know the pot kind of stuff yeah he had a really he had a really just kind of

uh beaten down disposition and um really didn't didn't seem super present or engaged ever and he also he was working two jobs so he was tired tired. He was, he was tired from working. He worked at Home Depot and Hollywood video. And then he would just come home at night and go in the back room and shut the door. And I think he just didn't want anything to do with, with any of it. Yeah. Also, he wasn't our dad, which is in the book, but I found out after my mom died that he wasn't our dad. So that also kind of put another piece of the puzzle together. Did your brothers know that he wasn't their dad? None of us knew. None of us knew.

We had no idea. How'd she work that? That's a... Right? Okay. I got to read the book, I guess. It comes late. It comes late.

Yeah, yeah. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. It was wild. Well, are you on board with this stuff? Like as she starts to do it and, um, you know, when she starts, I mean, I mean that, that putting you into acting. No, no, no, not at all. I, uh, I was always, I was really shy as a kid. And, um,

I, even to the point where my grandpa, like taking photos and I like, didn't like, I, there's something about cameras that seems really kind of domineering. I didn't like, didn't like them. And I just felt quiet, um, and more introverted, I guess was kind of how I naturally just was. And then, you know, being forced into this world where everything she's telling me to use big hand gestures. And I still kind of have that. Clearly I still have have my mom's influence i can't stop with the hand gestures this whole time but she she really um kind of conditioned me and groomed me to be like a little

kind of tap dancing child performer and walking in like hi suzy how's it going i'm jeanette like to the casting director or whatever um i i was was molded into a really that kind of quintessential inauthentic child performer. But I also think I was good at acting and I did enjoy being, I did enjoy feeling good at acting. It didn't come easy for me, but eventually once I kind of got the hang of it, which was basically to do the opposite of what my mom wanted me to do. She'd always give me directions. And then I'd go in and the casting director would tell me to do the exact opposite of what she'd said. So then I would tell her that I did what she wanted,

but I was actually doing what the casting director wanted. And then it would present more of a problem when, if I would book the part and then I'd be on set and she'd be telling me to do it one way and the director's telling me to do it a different way. And that, that was, that was very complicated, but I did enjoy feeling like that feeling like i was good at it for sure yeah yeah can't you tell my loves are growing you seem you know you seem relatively healthy i'm sure that

there's you have your days you know sure um but it is just whenever i talk to anybody who's and i've talked to i talked to a number of performers that have been in this business for a long time and some of them i'm like really amazed at how well put together they are or how good they are at hiding it because it just it does just seem like such a minefield to send a little kid into, you know, and I would, after when my wife and I split up, they moved in and do into an apartment building here in Burbank that had a lot of people from out of town who were here because their kids were actors. Like they were, you know, like on young Sheldon or, you know,

trying just, or just here from wherever, from Texas or Kentucky, like just giving it a go. And it was so hard for me, like in the dog walking part to not go, the dog walking part to not just tell people like, oh, you're, you're going to fuck your kid up. Like, this is really, I would never do this. I'd never let my kid do this. Yeah. People ask me a lot. Parents will say, hey, I want to put my kid in acting. And like, do you have any agent's numbers? And it's hard to not say, oh, I definitely would not suggest putting the kid in acting. I think even if the kid absolutely wants to do it, there's no, I don't think there's any way to kind of get to adulthood unscathed.

get to adulthood unscathed. Even if you have the best support system around you, even if you fall into amazing productions with really great, you know, crew members and, and even with the best possible experience, I think just the kind of psychological twist of being a child performer is so bizarre and so obscure that I, I don't think, yeah, there's, I don't think it's really possible to be unscathed, but I do think there are people who have navigated the experience so well. And I find it so inspiring. People like Scarlett Johansson. It's like, I I'm amazed Natalie Portman. It's incredible.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is, you know, it's, I think it takes, it does take, it takes, it's a, it's extra parental it's like you gotta really you gotta really do it right as a parent and i also don't want to just like i mean i wouldn't do it with my kids but i can also understand i can totally understand a family that needs money yeah and they got they got a little kid that wants to do this thing and they got people that are willing to you know give money to this kid and you know and now with the coogan accounts although i understand yours got fucked up um the coogan account for people who don't know uh jackie coogan was a child star in the r gang series i believe

and um made a ton of money and his parents stole it all. So they passed legislation that when you, your kid is an actor in show business, it goes into an account that the parents can't touch. And yeah, I believe 20% goes into an account. I might be wrong with the percent that maybe they changed. Yeah. I don't, I don't know exactly either.

I do know my daughter when she was about four, she had one line on the Sarah Silverman program, which was just a favorite to Sarah. And so we still, every year, unlike the end of year, there's a Coogan account that comes up with, you know, like $12 in it or something. You have two kids? I do. I have a 16-year-old daughter and a 21-year-old son. Did either of them want to act at any point or did they my interested in it my daughter expressed interest um when she was i'm guessing 10 to 12 something like that and there were kids in her school because it's la and she went to a nice la private school there were kids in her school who were

starting to work and starting to get jobs and she started and she's also she's very especially back then she was still very outgoing the 13 years kind of you know when your teen years settle in and you don't want anyone to look at you for the next six years that sort of changed it but she used to be just a real she was like a uso show walking around all the time and um she thought you know and she also was in like little school places up she's really good she's very you know i can say that as objectively as i can but she asked me about it and i just i i talked about it before on here and i told her i don't she told me about and i just kind of brush it off and then finally one time she really kind of pinned me down and i said honey if you to act, we can find community theater stuff for you to act in.

You can be in plays around here and stuff. I said, but I don't want to put you in this business because you will be surrounded by people who want to make money off you. And they will treat you like they love you and that you're their friend, but they want to make money off you. And all of those people, while they're acting that they love you, they will be judging your voice. They will be judging your face. They will be judging your body. They will be judging the way you move. They will be judging the way, you know, everything about you.

They will be judging, judging, judging. And, um, and I said, and I don't think that a young person should be put through all of that kind of judgment and all of that sort of like having a price put on them. So I said, no. And I said, and if you get if you want to work, when you get to be 16, you can work at the you know, you can sell tacos or you can work at the grocery store somewhere. You know, I mean, if you want to work, do that kind of work. You can work at the grocery store or somewhere. You know, I mean, if you want to work, do that kind of work. And also, if you're serious about being an actor, if you work at the taco store, you're going to have a lot of better experience.

You know, the kids that are working on these TV shows, all they know is TV and movies. They're not going to have any life experience to draw from. Yes. Yeah. I wish that more parents said that to their kids. That's amazing. How did she take it? Was she? She's okay with it yeah yeah and i mean and now now she doesn't even really want to act in school plays

she wants to do tech in the school plays because it's just she likes to be around it but she does you know the no she just does she's like uh i don't need everybody you know both my kids are kind of they're not like, they're both capable of carrying a conversation, but both of them have always been kind of like my son when he was little and it became time to start playing sports. And I, we went to a friend of his, a soccer game. I said, Hey, do you, and he likes soccer. I said, do you want to play soccer?

He goes like, I don't want to do anything where other parents are here yelling. All right. I guess you're not going to be playing sports then. You know, I guess it's, you know, art and music for you. And, and so, yeah, I just, I, and I also, you know, I, I started in Chicago in phone production on working on television commercials and i just saw like a cut i had like three or four very formative experiences with child actors and their mothers and it was always mothers that made me go like this is fucked up this is like really this is not healthy And there's so much, so much projection going on, you know, like so much, like this is not about the kid. This is about the mom as like with yours.

So absolutely. They're unfulfilled dreams and desires. Is your, does your son still, is he still in the arts or is he, is he, yeah, he's an art student. He's an art student at USC that's so cool yeah yeah he doesn't know what he wants to do with himself but sure I don't I don't I um I didn't I feel like nobody tells you that I didn't realize that at 21 that I just assume like 18 I still got oh I'm kind of kind of a kid but like an adult in some ways but by 21 I felt for sure okay I need to have everything figured out and I gotta have all my ducks in a row and I got to know how everything worked.

Like I didn't realize the 20s were just going to be a shit show and just throwing stuff at a wall and hoping it's. No, absolutely. And I mean, and it kind of goes on. I mean, I say it as a joke, but it is kind of true. I have this joke where I'll say, like, you know, one of these days I'm really going to start firing on all cylinders. I'm going to really I want to get my shit together. I'm going to I'm going to really get this life on track. And I know like I'm 50 fucking five. I, you know, I had I haven't had a long career and I have a family and raise kids.

I haven't had a long career and I have a family and raise kids, but still in me, there's this person that's like, oh, shit, there's that other thing I'm supposed to be doing that I'm not doing. And, oh, I should be writing and no, I should be, you know, exercising more and, oh, I have a hunch that all of the improvements that you want to make in your life, you'll be lucky to make 15 to 20%. You know what I mean? And that will be success. That will be like, if you can take the person that you are now and by the end of your life, you have this laundry list of things that you want to do and that you think you should be. this laundry list of things that you want to do and that you think you should be. If you can get like almost like up to like a quarter of that, you did fantastic. Based on the people, the old people that I know and what the way that they've disappointed themselves, you know, well, let's see. So what do you when does it start to hit that you're making a living? I mean, you know, and do you have to quit school?

Yeah, I was homeschooled. My mom homeschooled myself and then two of my three older brothers. And I started making money by, I started making money a little bit early on and then started really bringing home, you know, a significant amount of kind of the family. Some by the time I was 11 and then by 14, I was, I was cast in the show. I Carly were, I was a series regular. So then it was much more kind of 11. You say I was 14 when I got 14, 14, 14. Um, and, but 11, when I started making kind of more, more, more of my family's pot of money.

And then, yeah, at 14, I got cast in the show, and that was – yeah, it was more of a financial – some sort of financial stability. But, of course, it's Nickelodeon, so it's not a network paycheck. There's no residuals. And do you get a point i mean do you get is it is there any leverage when a show like that becomes a hit and you and it comes time to renegotiate or is it always just kind of treated like you know we'll give you a percentage bump up and that's it yeah so there is definitely a little bit of leverage beyond whatever the percentage bump was in the contract, but it, but it, it was Nickelodeon and, uh, they always used that too. Like their own lawyers would be like, well, it's Nickelodeon. So

you guys are making so much money off of this. Um, but, but it was, it was definitely, definitely more financial stability than, than I, I, I or my family, I think, had known up to that point. Yeah. Playing that character, I mean, do you really start to feel like you're hitting a stride and that you're getting good at it? Yeah, I felt good at it. I felt, I felt good. I felt good at it. And I felt at the same time, I felt really overwhelmed by like the show started really getting popular, like super popular, probably midway through our first season toward the end of our second season. And it got to the point where it was like going outside paparazzi be waiting outside the house level. Like it was really, really

overwhelming. And I mentioned earlier being like a people pleaser and being really socially anxious. So I didn't know what to do with fame. I didn't know how to navigate it. I didn't know there's no rule book. There was no, you know, person to talk to. There's no, there was no guidance around that. And of course my mom's devouring it and just like, you know, telling me different poses to take for the pictures and like, get another one, get another three for just so you have them to all the, to the parents who would want to take pictures and things. So she was like really, really loving it. And I, I think now that was when I started to resent her because watching her experience of enjoying it so much while knowing

how much I was struggling with it and just dying for somebody to talk to about just even to like vent a little bit about, Hey, this is a lot of pressure. This is really difficult, but I didn't have that. So I think that's when my resentment torture started. Um, and I just kept kind of suppressing it and shoving it down and trying to just kind of be, be, be polite and mommy's little girl. And then she got sick. She was sick initially when I was two, but she got sick the second time when I was 18, which felt to me like the time that I was just about to be able to confront her and be able to kind of call her out on some of the bullshit. And then she got sick. So then of course I can't go anywhere near it. Now I'm guilty that my mom's got a terminal illness. There's no way I'm going to say, hey, by the way,

you've lived vicariously through me for 15 years and I'm tired of it. So the cancer really, I think, complicated our relationship and came at a really, really ironic time in my life. Was she also, I'm guessing, I'd be willing willing to bet money that she was really good at martyrdom. Oh, my God. If you attacked her, it would go right to tears or right to I've done this for you kind of shit. So when you throw cancer into that, that's like a fucking superpower to a martyr. She had the badge of honor. She loves telling everybody. a martyr. She had the badge of honor. She loved telling everybody. I mean, it didn't matter whether she knew you, whether you were a churchgoer, whether she was at Albertsons checking out the groceries. She would be telling everyone stage four metastatic breast cancer survivor, mastectomy, bone marrow transplant, chemotherapy, radiation. Like I knew that list of what she'd

been through. I hadn't memorized from such an early age just because of how often she would spew it to everybody. And oftentimes like to get free things, you know, she'd try to get discounts. She'd try to get extensions on bills. I guess she was kind of clever in that way, but it was constant. It was constant. You say this was when you started resenting her. do you think that when your success started and your talent started to show and be appreciated that she resented you she she oh my god i'm so glad you bring this up because it was so such a mind fuck i had been doing what i thought was my mom's dream for years at that point it had been over almost a decade um and then all of a sudden 16 or whatever that's crazy that like

for you know whatever that is almost three quarters of your life has been doing this yes yeah yeah and so and then she started getting really jealous of me and and would say things like i have fans too or her favorite was when vine started becoming a thing she was like i'm gonna make a vine account and i'm gonna make comedy videos and you better watch the fans that i collect baby she'd always slap a baby on me she'd get so theatrical um now i think it's very fun she really was quite she didn't know she was being funny but she really had quite a distinct kind of cadence and yeah yeah way of praising things but um but so she became jealous and I was so confused because I thought, well, this is what you wanted for so long.

And now I have it and you somehow seem mad that I have it. While also, of course, she wanted me to have just more and more of it. And so it felt like I felt like I couldn't do anything right. I felt like, well, I was completely at a loss and just didn't really know what to do. And it was confusing. Yeah.

And your dad threw this whole thing again. It's just sort of a ghost in the background. Couldn't have said it better myself. It's so, I mean, I know we're laughing, but Jesus Christ, that's awful. Did she now, you know, you're you're already in this weird sort of crucible, like this pressurized environment. That's also kind of. In some ways, it's like it's like easier, you know, like you're kind of you've got this little bubble and you're around these funny, you know, funny, talented kids. And you're getting to do this fun stuff and kicking around ideas.

And I, you know, well, I mean, I imagine that was a pretty fun set. Although there is like the Dan Schneider stuff. There was definitely no kicking around. You said kicking around ideas. There was no for anybody's ideas on that set. It was very much one person's ideas and one person's ideas only. And, uh, yelling if you didn't do that one person's ideas. Okay. I will say, yeah, forget the fun set. Nevermind that piece. No, but I did have great friends in Miranda who played Carly and Nathan who played Freddie on the show. Yeah. And Noah and Jerry as well.

You mentioned earlier everybody sort of being likable and they were just as likable, if not more so, in real life. Yeah. So that was very, very nice. And then Miranda and I remained close throughout, all the way up kind of until my early 20s. We were really, really close. And having that friendship to be able to not only have during the show,

but to be able to have after the show and working through the kind of ebbs and flows of piecing together what was that experience and how wild it was. That was really, I think, one of the best gifts of the entire experience. Yeah. Could you share with her kind of what you were going through with your mom? Yeah, yeah, definitely. share with her kind of what you were going through with your mom yeah yeah definitely yeah we we shared a lot of stories and have a lot of a lot of crossover in a lot of ways and a lot of uh we have we have a lot of connection points i'll say we have a lot a lot there to explore together that's good well then that that tells me not to ask the next question. How I mean, you know, this is your you're working.

You're a teenager. I mean, can you have any kind of like regular teen life at all? Like whether it's dating or whether it's just like learning how to have friends outside, you know, hanging out. It was so bizarre because I, because I've been homeschooled. I think that was sort of one bubble. And then there was also the Mormon thing, which is another kind of weird bubble. And then there was fame, which is another bubble. So it's like bubbles on bubbles on bubbles. I didn't really know how to kind of just be, be social or, or, or make friends other than, you know, my, I had my friends on set, but, um, even with dating, I think back on it now and truly it's only been over the past few years where I realized that like

guys were flirting with me or like asking me out. I thought I had such low self-esteem at this time when I, it's bizarre to me because of having so much praise and on the one hand and being in the public eye, but I had such cripplingly low self-esteem that I had no idea. It would just fly over my head if somebody liked me and it wasn't me being coy. And like, I don't think they like me, but like actually know it. Like I did not know. I had no idea. And only recently I've been thinking of those people and thought, well, that could have been a nice kind of experience. It could have been fun to maybe, you know, date somebody that maybe there could have been some sort of a little

kind of healthy relationship there and have some sort of normal normalcy with the dating. But instead, I wound up dating a 32 year old when I was 18. And that was my first experience. Shame on you, 32 year old men are the worst. I'm sorry. I know. I just met her. Guys, come on. I thought, I thought I am so mature. I don't know why his friends don't, why his friends say that he shouldn't be seeing me. I'm thinking, I was thinking I was so mature and I,

there was the most emotionally stunted 18 year old. I know. Probably most people had met. And I, I mean, I don't know. I hope there's part of me that hopes he didn't know it. Like he's just super dense and shallow. But then there's part of me that probably thinks like, no, no, he knew. And that makes it even kind of evil. Sure.

Knowing this person, I could go either way. Yeah. Oh, boy. I hope he's listening. You fucked up guy. But also, you know, I will say I do, I do think there was a really positive aspect of that relationship and that it, it, it sort of was a, one of the, the inciting factors for me realizing that I maybe should step away from my mom. I was realizing, oh, maybe my mom isn't all good. Maybe I should not have her on this pedestal. Maybe I should try to figure out my own identity. And he was instrumental in me. Oh, he sort of would say like, hey, that's, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. He'd say your mom shouldn't write you an email calling you a slut and a floozy and a whore just because she's having some sort of a mental a mental you know some sort of a mood swing or yeah yeah yeah can't you tell my loves are growing um so is it i mean did you ever have any kind of, any sort of like confrontation with her? Were you ever able to kind of, I mean, towards the end, because when I met, when she started, when she, the last time she got sick, did she just continually get sick or was there sort of remission and recurrence or? No, she got sicker and sicker. And then there were, there were multiple sort sort of this is the end point scares. One of them, I remember she had a seizure. This image to me kind of feels ambulance comes to pick her up. I'm holding her hand in this ambulance. And we zoom past the Nickelodeon on Sunset building with the billboard for iCarly. It's like bright purple, bright yellow. I'm sitting there with my arm on my hip, like cheesy smile, airbrushed beyond recognition. And we're zipping past an ambulance. And I thought like, this is, this is life. It's, it's billboard, it's, you know, sitcoms and cancer. It's like billboards and ambulances. It's never, it's never just one of those things. Um, and it was, it was a really informative moment, I think for, for, for, for me, but, um, I lost the question.

for me, but, um, I lost the question. Oh, just, just, did you ever really, did you ever really get a chance to get stuff off your chest with her? No. And I think that's such an important question. No. And it's, and it's, and it was really hard because I would have loved to have confronted her about anything, um, any, any aspect of any of it. But I just didn't. I felt too guilty about the cancer. And then after she died was when I found out about my dad, who I thought was my dad, not actually being my dad.

And then that kind of compounded the complicated feelings toward her because I was just left wondering why didn't she? She knew that she was dying for years and she didn't tell me or any of my brothers the truth of our childhoods and what, what had happened. Um, and I don't know how she took that secret to the grave. I really, I, it's beyond me. And I tried for a long time to justify her reasoning and to make sense of it and to find, give her the benefit of the doubt.

But ultimately I felt like trying to justify it was a moot point because I don't respect it, whatever her reasoning was. It could have been anything. And I don't respect that she didn't tell any of us. And I think it was pretty kind of a cowardly move. And certainly not the way that I want to live my life. I think it was a really kind of shitty thing and pretending it's anything else would be a disservice to myself

and my brothers who also experienced the same thing. And also just general human decency. Thank you. Yes. There's just, there's like when you say like that she had her reasons. What possible? Yes. Like I just, you know, it was it was Prince Charles and it would ruin the monarchy. Like what could it possibly be that would take away from just letting your kids know the truth about where they do you

have you met your your biological dad and do you know him and i have um i have met him and my one of my two brothers who's also that he's also the father of um has has met him i i saw him quite a bit a couple this is a couple years ago and would do kind of like Sunday brunches. And I've met my, um, half siblings and they were, they were really great. I like my, uh, my half sister a lot, but, um, but it felt, it felt awkward just because I hadn't known this person. I approached him. So, uh, he, you know, he said that he really had wanted to be a part of all of our lives, but that, he, you know, he said that he really had wanted to be a part of all of our lives, but that there was, I guess, a big custody battle. And, um, and it

just, it's, it seemed like there was this whole, the more I talked with him, the more information would come out. And it just, it felt a bit overwhelming. And, and, you know, my brothers don't have a, have really one of my brothers has met him, as I mentioned, but they don't have a relationship with him. So it just felt like a, it just, it just felt like a lot. Did it also, did it feel like you weren't, you couldn't be sure what the exact story was? And so it just, yeah. I felt like I don't really know where to, where to get it or how to get it. And trying to get it was, was just kind of not, not,

it was getting to a point where it wasn't healthy for me. Yeah. And ultimately it's, you know. Exactly. You are who you are, and you know. Exactly. It doesn't, it's not that it doesn't matter, but you certainly, it's one of those things that, you know, you can do without.

You can, you know. Totally, totally. A lot of stuff you can just jettison. And then, yeah, feeling like, okay, I, it is the past let's keep it in the past and the more that i draw on it it's going to just continue dragging into my future i don't want that anymore um that i think that was an important thing to do yeah in the in sort of the the time after your mom passed uh

time after your mom passed uh did we able to hold it together or did like even just because i know sometimes even unhealthy systems are systems that that contain you and when that unhealthy system goes away you can kind of come a little bit undone. And I'm wondering if there was an aspect of that happening to you, or was it just a sigh of relief and, you know? I wish it was, I wish it was that simple. I wish it was a sigh of relief. No, it was definitely for me, my coping mechanism, my destructive coping mechanism of choice was eating disorders. My mom had actually had struggled with anorexia for a long time herself. And so she was the person who initially taught me calorie restriction when I was 11, and she would monitor my weight. We had weekly weighings. She would measure my thighs to make sure my thighs

didn't get bigger from week to week. So I really learned those unhealthy habits from her and how to restrict from her and then even to the point where on on her deathbed I told her my like I feel like this thing happens where everybody um tries to get the person who's gonna die to wake up from their coma like they're saying a piece of good news in the hopes that the person will wake up like but it doesn't obviously it doesn't work that way good news isn't gonna wake someone out of a coma but I think it's just a a a thing certainly a thing that me and my family did so my brothers each like gave her good news and one of my brothers is like I'm moving home and of course she's still in a coma the other brother's like I'm getting married she's still in a coma and I'm like I'm 86 pounds thinking that that would be the thing that would get her out. Like that was truly where I was at in thinking my weight is mom's happiness.

My, my smallness is mom's happiness. So then she dies and I'm not able to keep up anorexia without her. And then I fall into bulimia pretty brutally for a couple of years. Um, and, and also really struggled with alcohol issues. years. And, and also really struggled with alcohol issues. And then eventually several years and started getting a lot of therapy and help and support to get over those, those issues. Did somebody help you with that? I mean, at what point did you decide, okay, this is, I got to stop this. An ex of mine actually had said, Hey, you, you need to stop with the bulimia or I'm, or I'm walking away. Like this is, I can't watch you do

this to yourself. If you're going to do this to yourself and do it on your own time, but I can't, I can't watch you, um, do that. And then my, my sister-in-law also, um, my sister-in-law, I, I, we were eating at a restaurant. I went to the bathroom, stepped out of the stall, and she was standing there and said, you need help, and I'm going to help you look up some names, and you're going to call somebody tonight. And so that was definitely something that I think was really cool of her to be that confrontational and just that bold. And I'm super thankful.

Did you just say yes, or did you push back? I reluctantly said yes. I reluctantly said yes. I reluctantly said yes. And thinking like, okay, when she's gone home with my brother, I can just like duck out of here. But then I didn't feel that way. And I knew she was right. And I think some part of me knew that what I was doing was wrong and wanted help. Some part of me knew that what I was doing was wrong and wanted help.

But I had to, unfortunately, go through so many experiences of self-destruction before feeling like, okay, I need something. I can't keep doing this to myself. And I saw an amazing eating disorder specialist who helped me with, used a multitude of therapy kind of modalities to, to help. And it was very, very custom and didn't feel at all. Like he was just, he seems passionate about what he did. You know, like he really seemed like he was, he was in it and really present and engaged. And I think that's hugely responsible for my recovery. Yeah. That's, that's a good therapist.

The ones that just where you feel like you're there three o'clock those are the ones you know you know you can feel them glazing over yeah yeah like okay oh yeah you here we go what let me remind myself okay you know this issues okay go ahead um how does this period uh change your relationship to work i mean you've got your mom who's, you know, been the one holding the whip, uh, as a manner in a manner of speaking, just in terms of show business and doing this. Um, how does that change now that you don't have this, this person pushing you? I stopped acting. Um, I felt like that was important to be really definitive about like walking away because it had been such a part of my identity and something my mom had wanted for so long. But I really doubted it. I doubted the decision before I went back and forth on should I quit?

Should I not quit? Should I quit? Should I not quit? I've been working on a Netflix show. It got canceled. And I thought, well, this is a good, this is a good timing. I told myself I'd do the show till the end of it. I'd see it through. And I didn't have anything lined up and thought, well, this is perfect. I'm going to, I'm going to to quit now what age is this i was 24 24 24 yeah and and also i felt like i could either do um yeah i could do soul soul sucking sort of acting work just because of the show that i'd been on the types of, yeah, that's a tangent, but, uh, yeah, no, yeah. You can go where the job you're, you don't like the jobs you're getting. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got me. Um, exactly. I felt, I felt like my soul could not

withstand much more of that. Um, so I felt like, okay, this is the time for me to walk away, close that door and really just focus on, on recovery and healing. It sounds so cheesy, but like in the truest sense, it was just that, that time period for me and kind of threw myself into, into getting better for, for several years. Um, and yeah, I still, I still haven't acted and it's been, it's been six years at this point, but I really do enjoy writing and I, now I'm, I'm working on a collection of essays and a novel. And I'm enjoying that. Oh, wow.

That's great. That's great. Hope something happens with them, but we'll see. Did you get a lot of pushback when you decided to stop acting? None. Three-minute phone call. Three-minute phone call. Wow.

I'm like, hey, guys. Did that sort of sting a little? Did you want like, oh, nobody begged me. Yeah, sure. I hung up. I think that's what started the self-doubt. I want like, oh, nobody begged me. Yeah, sure. I hung up. I think that's what started the self-doubt. I was like, shoot, it was that easy. Should it have been that easy?

Did I make the right decision? And then I went back and forth on it a lot for maybe a year afterward of, should I still do it? But I knew that that feeling of like, eh, that hesitancy wasn't going to get anywhere good if I'm, you know, if I am still acting, but from this place of like, I don't know, like that's just going to be, you can sniff that a million miles away. Yeah, yeah. Did you ever consider college? Just, I mean, just to be a dad about it. No, I never considered college. I thought, well, I should say I did consider college,

but I never went through with any of the work. It was a thought that crossed your mind. Yeah, I hear this thing called college. People my age are doing it. I felt I really wanted to do what I if I could have waved a magic wand, I want to do writing and directing. So my kind of like grand plan was to set aside the amount of money that I would have spent on college to make short films and to kind of try to to get some footing there and and and learn as much as I could. So I I used that money to make short films instead of go to college. could so i i i used that money to make short films instead of go to college you know you probably would have gone to college and made short films so what the fuck you say tuition

you saved tuition and still ended up yeah exactly my thought and i also think you know i uh yeah i was able to as opposed to it being like crafted around some sort of assignment or i'm sure there's a lot of creative i hope there's a lot of creativity there, but I was able to just make what I wanted instead. You learn so much more by doing than you do by learning, you know, then by sitting in a classroom. I went to film school and I learned more in like the first four months of being out of film school, working as a freelance PA about like what it really, you know, like what it really means to be on a film set and how it works and how the day works and where the money goes. You need to be in the professional. It was the same thing when I did improv comedy.

I took tons and tons of classes. You don't really know anything until you get on stage. And that's where you really start to get the miles on you that, that, that matter. Did you actually start as a PA? Yeah. Oh my God. No kidding. Yeah.

I started, I started, uh, I went to film school in Chicago, Columbia college, and I had an internship at a production company for about, so I worked for free for about six months. Uh, and then I started out as a pa and it was all commercials um and i was freelance i worked as i worked on i moved furniture for a while too um but that was like that was just a a really that was paid probably better than the film production um but i and then i just started to do a little bit of everything because somebody calls you and says have you ever second ad'd and you and i went yep you know and then of course i hadn't and when i get there i whisper can you show me how to fill out the contracts for the

x i was gonna say that's a hard one to have not done i feel like second ading just jumping into that would be really tough no it's a. The entire film industry is built on bullshit. It's built on like it's built on mostly European immigrants who came over here and said like, oh, what? How does this thing work? Oh, what? Oh, wow. Look, it projects on a wall and you can see a train coming at you. Hey, I'm interested in this.

And then they just, you know that nobody taught anybody how to make movies they just had this somebody came up with a camera and the film and then it was like oh let's i think an hour and a half is probably a good length of time you know it's just everybody just figures it out so yeah it's just like it's extended on that and it's also really good you know i was put into situations like when i first started because i ended up doing mostly props. But like I got hired by a company that would come in. They were from Minneapolis and they would come down to, you know, subcontract jobs. And I would I would work for them. And they and they kind of knew, you know, how green I was. but they would just give me uh you know like they'd say we need uh this this and there were other people doing other things but one of the things in the commercial was this dishwasher needs to open on its own like it needs to open on its own and then be able to close halfway and then

open all the way and then close again yeah and here's the dishwasher figure and here's a here's a you know like a workshop with lots of tools and stuff, figure it out. All right. You know, that means you take it apart and you run fish line and, you know, you make sure, see what level of fish line you need. And you pull the line from the back, you know, and God, yeah, you just figure it out. It's, and it was really fun. It was really like, Oh, you liked it you enjoyed it i loved it i loved it i loved the problem solving i liked the pressure of it even i mean that's like i like the pressure of improv in many ways i just it made me nervous to do it but i liked it and being able to handle it

um felt good to me because i wasn't you know i guess i mean my thing coming from a lot of upheaval in a family and not feeling a lot of control and always feeling you know sweaty over confrontation and you know panicky when when things got tough to have its tense situation that i can handle it felt great you know and uh you know and it's and it's and it was the beginning of like a lot of work that turned out really pretty good you know so that's so cool i i didn't know that background that's yeah yeah yeah um and it also too i think it gave me something which i it gave me a perspective that i'd see a that a lot actors don't have, which is the idea that you're a member of the crew. Yes.

And you've got a really cushy job. You get your own toilet. Yep. Nobody else gets their own toilet. I mean, a few people on the set do. But don't be an asshole about how long everything takes and how much work it is, because, you know, I have an appreciation for like how long it takes to light something, you know, like, you know, like we did tabletop commercials in Chicago where it'd be like a loaf of, but it would take six hours to light that loaf of bread. And then you'd have a scene with 20 people in it and, you know, in a set. And that would take an hour to light.

I just I think that the margins for error are more when you get out. But these, you know, like they're so particular with these with these beauty shots. Yeah, I did a Domino's pizza commercial. And I remember them spending even before the lighting was happening they were the the food special the food groomer food stylist food stylist thank you um would come and spritz with the water bottle spritz the pepperoni cups and then she'd flatten things out and add the cheese and it was um it was fun to watch i enjoyed i enjoyed watching her i of pizza.

I think, yeah, that was always, but those jobs are kind of a pain in the ass because they take so long. But I think it was Domino's. They set up a full like Domino's kitchen in this soundstage because they were getting the lift of the slice with the perfect strings of cheese.

Yep, yep. And there's like a 15 second window, like where it's like, you know, like you got to get it out of the oven and by second 42, you've got to have lifted that cheese or it, it won't work or it'll just, you know,

congeal. Yeah. And so it was like delivering a baby. It was like, you know, like the pizza we need to be 45 more seconds on the pizza. Okay. Roll, you know, like the pizza. We need to be 45 more seconds on the pizza. Okay, roll. You know, here we go.

Put it down. Turn it a little. Go. Ah, shit. You know, the cheese didn't stretch enough. I do. I love set anxiety. I think it's really, it's fun.

And it's also easy to get swept up in. And it's also so funny just because it is so often for, you know, for strings of cheese on a pizza. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know. Like there's sometimes it does. It doesn't pay to step back and think about like what you're doing because it's like, no, because you'll just you'll never stop feeling ashamed that this is important to you. you'll never stop feeling ashamed that this is important to you. Well, now you, you, you, you're, are you redoing the,

cause I'm glad my mom died started as a live show, correct? Yeah, I did. I did a live show version that got kind of stopped because of COVID. Then I did a second run of the live show. And then, then the book is sort of, I see the book as very separate. They're the same title. They're cut, they cover the same material, but, um, the live show is like a musical and has a lot of interactive elements. And, and, uh, and the book, basically the book is not just a me writing out the live show. It's, it started with the intention of it being a book, but I hope to do the live show again at some point. I think it'd be, um, I think it'd be, it'd be fun to do. I really enjoyed the audience connection. Um, we never, we never did

any of the shows that I worked on in front of a live audience. So I didn't really know what that was. There's put, they had just a laugh track, you know? So, so you just taped them. Oh yeah. We just taped them. No, no, uh, no live audience. So it was really cool to get that that connection. I like I like that a lot. Yeah. Would you ever get nervous before tapings or do you feel like you were just so used to it that you wouldn't feel any shift in your nervous system? On the Conan show, I didn't get nervous before because it was just there was. before because it was just there was it there was just so many of them you know um and i've talked about this on here before too uh which just my way of people who've heard this before just give me a break she hasn't heard it so you know good quit tapping your feet um but i i i would i'll do

you know i would do that show four nights a week in front of a million-ish, if we were lucky people. But then I would go and someone would ask me to do an improv show in a black box theater in Hollywood. And I would be a nervous fucking wreck. fucking wreck really yeah in front of 30 or 40 people because what was why because it's improv and because i was rusty and because i was rusty and it's like you know it's it it's like a somebody you know who was a good basketball player who's now a sports writer at being asked to play basketball again, you know, and just being like, oh, I'm going to look so bad. I'm not, I don't know if I can do it. I don't know, you know? And so that would sort of, I'd get that kind of

pressure and I get pressure in sort of newish situations and in different rooms, I'll get a little bit nervous. Nothing like I used to, like in the beginning, what I used to get nervous or be made nervous by. Have you done improv recently? Not for a while. I've talked about it on here too, again, but like, I don't really, the improv that I did after I was on the Conan show was mostly like at UCB, they would have this long form improv where there were people that would be, they'd have monologists that would come on and just tell personal stories. And then they would improvise kind of rift based on the- Oh, I did one of those.

I did one at UCB. I did one monologued. I didn't do the improv. Yeah, yeah. Off-log improv. Ass cat? It was, I don't remember. I don't think it was ASCAT,

but it was the same format of monologuing and they did a Herald or whatever. A Herald, yeah. That's the original. That's the Chicago original long-form improv, which is, you know. But the Herald didn't have to just be monologues. And it could be, there could be games, you know, like group games in the middle between the groups of scene work.

But I would do those. And so I got, you know, I got very comfortable doing those kind of things and telling those stories on stage. But doing the actual scene work was it's a different skill. You know, it's not just being yourself and saying like, huh. So they're talking about a shoe store. Oh, yeah. That thing happened to me in a shoe store. You know, like thinking of a character and like making something that's, you know, you're not really trying for the joke, but you're trying to be funny.

So, you know, I want to give something that's good. And the last time I did that was a fundraiser for UCB and there were a bunch of people that I know like Amy Poehler was part of it and as we were going on stay and met Besser one of the other UCB people and I think Matt Walsh was in it as we're going on stage I thought I was just doing like in fact it was it was a long form that was based that where the the things in between were songs so so i was gonna sing a song i knew and i was like as we're going on i was like so am i going out with you now or did i just come out when i'm doing my song and somebody was like no no you're doing the improv you're doing the whole thing and i was like oh okay and i had like 10 seconds to sweat good

though because you didn't have that absolutely absolutely oh my god i if i if they had told me about it the day before it would have made the day shitty you know oh yeah the dread in the stomach yep so i just i had to do it there i was and i mean and also too, I'm used to at this point for many different reasons, being able to hold it together after go, go now, you know? And, and so I like, all right, I can do this. And I did it and I did fine. And I, it was good. And then when I was done, I was like, well, I i asked myself so do you want to do more of that and the answer is no no that was okay you're good i'm set for another few years you know i mean

it's you know i don't i don't know it just i don't get enough charge out of it i just don't it's it's nice it's fun but i i from the day one when i I did improv, if the show got canceled, which like in Chicago would happen all the time because of weather or whatever, we still would go, like I would go hang with all these funny people and we'd hang out and get drinks or whatever. And that was what I wanted. But you didn't hear that it was canceled. Not in front of an audience. I, you know, like that made it easy because it's like, oh, we don't have to do it for

those people. We can just do it for ourselves. Just go somewhere and be funny and make each other laugh for ourselves. Interesting, because I was going to ask if you'd at some point had the charge, but it sounds like it was, yeah, just never really never there for you. No, I definitely I really liked it when when I started doing it. But it also, too, was like it was a means to an end. I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to, you know, and then eventually get on television. So I, you know, it was school for me. It was school for me, but I never, and there are people that believe in it as an art form and do it until they're, you know, very, very old.

And I just sort of saw it more as like a thing to do. It was in Chicago. I was in, I was good at it. It was good training for what I, you know, for ending up, I went to film school. I wanted to get into film. I didn't go to improv school. I, you know, I mean, I kind of did, but, you know, and so I got into film and I'm working in film and I'm working in television and that's kind of like, okay, you know, I don't, you know, it's like, if you get a job as a writer, you don't need to take an English class. Right. Right. Right. So it's, you know, I mean, but that's unless you like English class, you know, it's, you know, so, yeah. Do you feel do you feel that charge toward acting now or is it like.

Yes. Oh, cool. I do like acting and I like being good at acting and I like making TV shows and and and and being good at making TV shows. I also have directed a little bit, which I know you have too. Oh, and you like it? I love it. I love it. I direct. I like direct. I've directed commercials.

So it's not like I'm directing a crew. And it's not like a tale of a young lad's coming of age. It's a fucking commercial. But it's fun because you're making a movie and it's coming of age. It's a fucking commercial, but it's fun because you're making a movie and it's a little movie and you got this much time and you got this list of stuff

you got to do and this amount of money and it feels like a game show, like beat the clock. You know, like we got 12 hours to shoot all this stuff. Let's go. You know, oh, there's a problem.

Problem solved, you know, like making decisions and moving from one thing to the next. It's that I like. It feels very grown up, you know, oh, there's a problem, problem solved, you know, like making decisions and moving from one thing to the next. It's that I like, it feels very grown up, you know? Yeah, I agree. I'm not the best at putting out fires generally with like any sort of life, you know, the day-to-day of life, but I feel like on set, I'm quite good at putting out those fires and knowing kind of what the situation needs and how to move on from it and how to keep on time. And I really, I like it a lot. I feel like it's a good way of channeling that hypervigilance that I got from an abusive environment. It's like channeling it for good.

Yeah, I can take it. I can take it. Yeah, I want to direct the young lads coming of age. If you're not going to do it, I'll do it. You can do it. You can do it. Okay. Well, speaking of which, the second of these questions is kind of where are you headed now and we kind of talked a lot about that but i mean where do you see yourself what do you see yourself doing from now on um i'm i'm working on a uh yeah i think i mentioned this

earlier but a novel on a collection of essays and and working on bold at once because uh to avoid burnout frankly on on one of them. I usually find that I hit walls. You've written essays for Wall Street Journal, right? Do you have a regular gig for them, or is it just sort of a relationship? No, it was just a relationship, and it was in my early 20s. I did Wall Street Journal, and then I did Huffington Post more recently. But even kind of thinking on those, I remember just I was I knew that I wanted to be writing, but I was still I don't feel that I was nearly as honest as I've been in the in the memoir because I was like I wrote something on body image.

And I'm thinking now in retrospect, well, if I'd been really honest, I would have said, hey, I'm writing this whole thing on body image. And then I four minutes later, I go and throw up like that was what my life was. That was honest. But I do think it was an important kind of stepping stone to get to where I am now. But I, I've loved writing, writing the novel. That's been really fun. It's nice to not to, to be exploring and playing in a world that's not my own. And that's not, that's not so personal.

It's, it's, it's nice to not have to do therapy sessions after writing the chapters. That is good. Well, but I mean, is that kind of you just sort of setting down that road, you think? I would prefer to keep writing and directing would be kind of definitely writing and directing are the ultimate goals. I would prefer to go in that direction, but I've only recently actually thought maybe there's a world in which I act again. I didn't think that was possible. I had walked away from it. So definitively. So like washing, dusting off my pants, washing my hands clean of that, like that's in my past. And I think,

I think that was what I needed to do at the time I was 24. 24. And now that I'm wise and 29 slash 30 slash nobody knows, I feel like I'm interested in finding a better relationship with acting. You know, I don't think it has to carry the baggage from my past. I don't think it has to be this thing that carries that weight for me anymore. I think there's a way for it it to be fun again. Yes. Was it ever fun? I think it was less so fun. It was, it was always quite stressful for me. It was, it was, it was more the only enjoyment I think I really had was just from, from feeling, feeling good at it and enjoying my friendships. But I think there's a way where I could be, it could not do that wreckage to the nervous system that it used to do. I think there's a way where I could be, it could not do that wreckage to the nervous system that it used to do. I think there's a way where it could just feel like, oh, I like this and I want to be doing

this and I feel safe in this environment. I feel good. I'm hopeful at least. I don't even know what it would look like, but I'm open to the idea. Yeah. I feel like that's growth. A part of me now kind of feels like that being open to ideas that you were at one point kind of close to feels like growth or is that just. No, it does. Right. That's that's one of the. Yeah, I often there's different things that I've come across in my life that I think are part of being a grown up. And that definitely is is being able to change your opinion on something, you know, that you really you were like no planting the flag yeah that is done forget it um and then coming back and going like wait a minute you know i mean giving yourself the permission to be wrong about something yeah giving yourself the permission to uh not be scared by something that scared you before yes um it Um, that's all grownup stuff.

It's all, you know, like it's going to be okay. And, and all of this stuff is part of me and, and, and hiding stuff. And this is from,

uh, just from my, it doesn't work that well. Right. It's, it's a nightmare. It doesn't work that well. Yes. Yes. I mean, there's It doesn't work that well. Yes.

Yes. I mean, there's some, you know, some compartmentalization you can do, like, especially, especially like if,

you know, like being in the public eye, there's you. And then there's you, you know, there's like, there's this person that's out there and that's this you know that's not really me and then there's this other person that is me and that is compartmentalization

and that's by definition by most people's you know like mental health dictionaries that's not healthy but it sure is that it's like a a useful bacteria because it keeps you sane because the people that let those two things become the same thing ah it's almost always is ends in sadness disaster it's so it's so funny to see this because i uh ahead of this i was listening to um multiple many episodes of of the podcast, but there was one where you mentioned, I forget who you're speaking with, but you mentioned kind of a similar point on the concern with somebody taking their personal life kind of public. And I was like, oh, he's going to have a heyday talking to me about my memoir. I'm talking about all this personal stuff. Yeah, but a memoir is a different thing.

I think I was talking to somebody who was like making their, like, and I've had, you know, like turning, like they and their spouse get a commercial together. Yes. You know, like that kind of thing or where, you know, like all of your sort of, you know, magazine articles are about your life together. And I always think like like i don't know no i could not agree more i feel like it's so important to have those um boundaries which is something i i had no awareness of um growing up i was just a complete enmeshed blob with my with

my mom but i i the the i find them to be a continuously more and more important piece of life is like okay where where do i end and does this thing begin? And what's for, what's for the public and what's for me and what are my emotional, mental, physical, environmental boundaries? I think it's an ongoing process. It was, it's, it's definitely a stumbly one, but I feel it takes, yeah. Right. It's like something I'm sure it's just always going to be that way. It's never going to be like, Oh, and now I've totally figured it all out. Yeah. Yeah. It's like touching oven or touching stoves and finding out, oh, that's hot.

You know, like, you know, I wouldn't know unless you touched it. So. Right. Well, what do you want people to take away from your story? I mean, you've written a memoir. So, you know, you are just you're laying it out there. You're laying your life out there. And I just, you know, like if you could sum it up, what do you hope people take away from it? I hope people appreciate the humor. I think, you know, I definitely cover a lot of intense or heavy subject matter, whatever you want to call it. You know, eating disorders, Mormon, child stardom, or child acting,

teen stardom, abusive parents. But I hope people appreciate the humor because I think that's, it's certainly been an important piece of my life. And I think just taking yourself too seriously isn't, doesn't, it's, it's, it's not fun and it doesn't lead anywhere good. I think it's, it's, it's, it's not a positive, doesn't lead, it's not a positive path for me, at least. I was a very serious child and I'm glad to have more of a sense of humor than I had then. And that's great. Well, Jeanette, thank you so much for taking all this time and talking to me and for being so open and, and, and sharing so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I know I mentioned this off the record, but I was so excited. Um, when I got the email about this and I've just been such a fan of yours

for so long. So I'm like really grateful to be able to talk with you. Thank you. Me too. That's like I said, then too, I said, you just wait. I'll butter you up, too. So. All right. Well, thanks. And good luck with the book. And and and, you know, the novel and the essays and everybody go buy everything that you see with McCurdy on it. And we'll be back next week with more of the three questions. Bye bye. The three questions with Andy Richtbye. I've got a big, big love for you.

The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Your Wolf production. It is produced by Lane Gerbig, engineered by Marina Pice, and talent produced by Galitza Hayek. The associate producer is Jen Samples, supervising producer Aaron Blair, and executive producers Adam Sachs

and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Your Wolf. Make sure to rate and review The three questions that Andy Richter on Apple podcasts.