The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Jennette McCurdy (Re-Release)

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

(Re-released from August 2022) Jennette McCurdy joins Andy Richter to talk about being a child actor, growing up with an abusive mother, and her new book “I’m Glad My Mom Died."

Hello, everybody. This is Andy Richter. You've tuned into The Three Questions. I am the host of that show. And this month, we are digging into the archives, and we are looking back on some of my favorite episodes of the show. And this week, we are resharing my conversation with Jeanette McCurdy. Jeanette was pitched to me back in 2022, and I said yes, because I had a teenage daughter who used to watch a lot of iCarly. And I was always struck by how funny the actress that played Sam was. So when somebody brought her up to be on Three Questions, I said yes. We spoke in August of 2022, which is the same week that her memoir, I'm Glad My Mom Died, was published. The book went on to sell nearly two million copies.

Jeanette has an incredible story, and we spoke about her journey from Nickelodeon child stardom to quitting acting altogether. Here's my conversation with Jeanette McCurdy. I know you're going to love it. Hello, everyone. I'm Andy Richter. This is The Three Questions, and I am very excited to talk to someone, mainly because she's going to shit talk her dead mother. Who does, who doesn't want that? I've never really had that on this show before.

And I finally, my dream comes true. Don't listen to this one, mom. My mom's still alive. So, but also too, I also am,

I have been, I have a 16 year old daughterold daughter and a 21-year-old son. I probably have seen every episode of iCarly. No kidding. Honestly, honestly. And it's a really good show. It's not like I the reason I watch it is because it actually is. I mean, it's a teen sitcom. Sure. Sure. sure is it creepy for an old man like me to be watching a teen sitcom of course like i you know like the one time i watched euphoria i felt so like i was in a van like in a windowless van i did too i watched the pilot and i was like oh i feel is this okay they're like 16 what's going on yeah because my daughter will say it's a great show and i'm like yeah but no you don't want me

watching euphoria honey um but well i don't want me watching Euphoria, honey. But well, I don't even think it's Jeanette McCurdy who played Sam on iCarly for all those years and on other on every other every other dime that Nickelodeon could could ring out of the character of Sam. And and I was just I just I want to say right off the bat how from day one, how impressed I was with how good you are, how good your comedic chops are and what a good actor you are. And that whole show was, you know, full of, and they talk about likability, like that's, you know, but it really matters in television. Everybody in that show, so winning, so likable, so great. But you really you understand comedy in an innate way. And you were always just so good. And also you got to play, I mean, a teenage girl who's scary, who's intimidating, who's mean and kind of a bully. Like, it's like that that's gotta be a fantasy fulfillment for a lot of young women, you know?

So I'm sure there's, you know, a lot of young women love the character of Sam. Yeah, there are a lot of young women who tell me that I helped them in some way developmentally to like accept parts of themselves. And that's always really nice to hear. Their bullying side, their cruel bullying side their cruel bullying exactly yeah exactly um i i was so the opposite of that i was such a like kind of hunched anxious people pleaser that it did feel kind of i felt cool to to live vicariously

through through the character um i enjoyed like that aspect of it for sure yeah why do you think it being i mean is you just felt like, do you think that there was something in you? Like the, it was like a, a secret desire to be that way that made you so good at that character. Or, I mean,

sure. Yeah. I think there, I think, I think I, I wish that I could get away with, with behaving the way that Sam behaved there. I was,

I, I did not feel that was an accept. I was also Mormon. So I was just like everything everything the opposite of that character. So it definitely seemed like I think there was some wishful filming aspect. Right, right. I always find showbiz Mormons to be weird because it's like, you know, it's like it's like showbiz Orthodox Jews. It's like, I don't think you're supposed to be doing this if you're really sticking to the script.

That's exactly what Kathy Huffman, Sister Huffmeyer said to my mom. She was like, I don't think Jeanette should be playing a child prostitute in judging Amy. This is against the church's rules. And my mom would be like, oh, she'll convert people, though. She'll get people converted. Sure, absolutely. Yeah. Hundreds are beating down the doors of Mormon churches, of LDS churches everywhere.

Well, you bring it up. You're Mormon, but you're from Southern California. You were born there. Yeah, I am no longer Mormon, to be clear, but I haven't filed the paperwork. I hear it's quite a rigorous process to get out. Oh, really? You've got to file paperwork? You've got to file paperwork.

You've got to talk to the bishop of your home ward and some other folks. So I haven't done any of those, but I definitely don't consider myself Mormon anymore. But what hold do they have on you? Like if you start going to a Presbyterian church, they'll sue or something? They send a lot of materials. They somehow kind of like find every address you go to and like keep sending materials. And then there's something called baptisms for the dead that they do, which was,

Oh, I've heard about that. Okay. Yeah. So you can like, you can, you can, uh,

or what do you call it? Convert someone in the afterlife. Yes. Who didn't ask? No. These people weren't like wanting for Mormonism and then died. And then they finally get it. It's just like your second cousin twice removed who died five years ago or, you know, random historical figures that they're like baptizing as Mormon.

Yeah, you're walking around heaven and all of a sudden you got to wear weird underwear. It doesn't seem fair. I didn't ask for this. Oh, my God. i didn't ask for this oh my god my mom would always with the garments she would she didn't like wearing clothes that were as modest as they needed to be in order because they that your your clothing needs to surpass your garments yeah um they're like kind of a an indicator of where your clothes need to be so she would just like roll up the garments so that she could get away with showing a little more skin. Listen, there, there is such a religious history of, of cutting corners. Like every religion has cut in corners, you know, like whether it's, oh, I don't know what, I forget what they call

it, but in Catholic, you know, like, and they're, they allowed it now again, I can't remember what it's called. I'll remember it after we're done talking where you actually can pay money to get out of sins. Like you can just give money for sins and they, they outlawed it like in the 1600s and they just recently quietly reinstated it. I mean, I read, I read an article somewhere like, yeah, we'll take money to let you to let you off your sins again, if you want. Or just the whole Catholic thing of confession

was always like in really Catholic area and like people who are super Catholic, it's like you can just be an absolute drunken sex fiend on Saturday, but on Sunday, it's like, I'm washed clean. Thanks a lot. You know, such a good deal. Whereas me, the agnostic,ostic i gotta carry all this shit around

me until the day i die all this guilt all this sin um well anyway um so how you i mean we're here to talk about your book uh first of all and about your life uh and the book is called i'm glad my mom died so you it's like one of those ones you don't need to really ask about what it's about. I'm guessing it's a memoir. You got it. I'm guessing there was some pretty shitty stuff. Yeah.

And I'm also guessing just from your personality and from what I know about you, that you're trying to learn to laugh at it. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's something that I've killed our brothers and it's it. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's a, it's, it's, it's something that I've healed her brothers and it's something that all of us, I think, turn to as a coping mechanism and a means of,

of getting through and finding some entertainment through it. You know, like even, even the day of her funeral, I remember my brother making a joke about, cause the pallbearers were like bumping the casket into the sides of the doorway. And my brother just making a joke about her rolling out of the casket and coming down to yell at all of us. And it was just what the moment needed. Like, you know, it was so much better than just the weight without any of the levity. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of siblings, how did they feel about the book and about? They're very supportive.

I just got dinner with one of my brothers the other day, and they have always been super supportive and very understanding, and they relate to it more than anybody. So they get it for sure. They get all of it. Did it take a long time to get to a point where you could be, I mean, because it's a whole ball of wax that you're admitting and that you're making public. But to be able to say, you know, I'm glad my mom died. I mean, you know, like that's a pretty heavy statement in most people's vernacular. You know, I'm with the blackened heart that I have from years of being a smartass. It's like, no, no, I get it. But I just wonder, did it take a long time to get to that for you?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It took years. I started therapy after my mom. I was 21 when she died. I just turned 30 now. I can't say just anymore. It's been over a month. The cutoff's at a month, right? It's been more than a month. I'm 30. You can say whatever you want. You can say whatever you want. You can say you just turned 29. So it's 13 months.

Love that. Just turned 29. My mom died when I was 21 and that's when I started therapy sort of shortly after she died. And it certainly wasn't like something that I immediately felt. I felt relief when she died and devastation, but I could go nowhere near accepting that relief because I felt so much guilt about the relief. Uh, and it was very, very much a long process to get to the place where I could say that I, that I am glad that she died. And then, of course, anytime I would, I'm not going around to parties just spouting that I'm glad my mom died, but anytime I would express kind of how I felt about my relationship with her, I was so often met with, well, you only

have one mom or, yeah, but don't you wish she was here? And my thought was always like, no, I don't. I wouldn't have grown as a person i wouldn't have any semblance of my own identity if she were still here um and so i think this book was sort of a way of me articulating those thoughts in in that i that i had but never never said out loud yeah i i mean i always it's you know it's kind of like the parental version of america love it or leave it. It's like, well, it doesn't, it's not, it doesn't work that way. You know, like you gotta be honest and you gotta, you gotta call abuse, abuse. And it, I just like, I think there's just sort of a drive

to people. They don't, they just want, I mean, and it it's it's so tiresome when you're trying to make comedy of like can't you just be nice can't you just say nice things which there's just that which is just sort of ostrich head in the sand kind of thing but i think also there's there's people that just they think that if they pull like if they just start to pick at their idea of a loved one, whether it's your parents or your brother or sister, that somehow this whole house of cards will fall and then it'll, that'll all be meaningless and all be ruined. And you'll have to confront the fact that this person that you loved was bad, which is like, well, that's what mental health is it's yes it's being honest about things and being honest with yourself about things oh my god i love that yes that's i i couldn't uh couldn't agree with that more i think mental health is all has hugely been about honesty for me and not not getting eaten up by secrets or not pretending like things are something that they're not. Just ending, trying to put as much of an end to just the bail and the falsity as possible and continuing to try and do that for years.

I also think too, that you're doing yourself and the people in your future a big favor because when you protect, when you're like, my mom was a saint or my dad was, you know, was the best. He was perfect. And you overlook bad behavior, abusive behavior, destructive personality traits. You're giving yourself the okay to do those later yes you know like you're you give yourself that like i can be an asshole too because my mother was a saint and this is shit she did and she's a fucking saint so this must be it must be fine for me to lock him in the basement you know oh my god oh my god my whole body just like feels that so deeply like sat up straighter oh my lord Yeah. So good on you for this

book. I mean, I haven't read it yet, but I will, I actually do. I will. Cause it sounds like, well, let's start, let's start at the beginning. Cause it was kind of your mom. I mean, at least with your work stuff, it was your mom's idea to get you in the show business. Yeah. So she had always dreamt of being an actress. She wanted deeply to be an actress. She would... Is she from Southern California? So she was sort of seeking it? She is. Yeah, yeah.

She is. And she would go to any live taping of a show that she could sneak in and get tickets to. She would camp outside of Chris Knight's house. He played Peter Brady in the Brady Bunch. Oh, my God. In the Brady Bunch. She swore they had a relationship, but I that given given the nature of her sort of loftiness yeah but um yeah she she really dreamt of being an actress and her parents didn't let her act

so she she wanted wanted me to and and always lived vicariously through me and she even she even pushed one of my brothers into it but there was more of a kind of demand on me because I think just the, the female connection. Right. Right. You're a little her and, but you're, yeah, but you're like, she's in charge of you probably more in charge of you than she was of herself. I bet, you know? Yes. Yes. Oh my God. A million percent. I think it was because she couldn't get control of herself and, and navigate her own experiences she thought well this one's easier to control than i am than i like she couldn't control herself i was easier to control and then i also think she sensed that i was probably more pliable and and influenceable than my than my brothers were yeah i think she just knew she could sense all

of that where was your dad in this process? Was he just kind of, he just. Sleeping. Yeah. Just kind of. Taking a lot of naps. Yeah. Just letting it go. Cause why stay, you know, the pot kind of stuff. Yeah. He had a really, he had a really just kind of. Beaten down disposition and really didn't, didn't seem super present or engaged ever. And he also,

he was working two jobs, so he was tired. He was tired from working. He worked at Home Depot and Hollywood Video. And then he would just come home at night and go in the back room and shut the door. And I think he just didn't want anything to do with any of it. Yeah. Also, he wasn't our dad, which is in the book. But I found out after my mom died that he wasn't our dad. So that also kind of

put another piece of the puzzle together. Did your brothers know that he wasn't? None of us knew. None of us knew. We had no idea. How'd she work that? That's a... Right? Okay. I got to read the book, I guess. It comes late. It comes late. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. It was late. It comes late. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, it was wild.

Well, are you on board with this stuff? Like, as she starts to do it? And, you know, when she starts... I mean, putting you into acting. No, no, no, not at all. I was really shy as a kid. And even to the point where my grandpa like taking photos, and I like didn't like I there's something about cameras that seems really kind of domineering. I didn't like

didn't like them. And I just felt quiet. And more introverted, I guess was kind of how I naturally just was. And then, you know, being forced into this world where everything she's telling me to use big hand gestures and i still kind of have that clearly i still have my mom's influence i can't stop with the hand gestures this whole time but she she really um kind of conditioned me and groomed me to be like a little kind of tap dancing child performer and walking in like hi suzy how's it going i'm jeanette like to the casting director or whatever. I was molded into a really that kind of quintessential inauthentic child performer. But I also think I was good at acting. And I did enjoy being, I did enjoy feeling good at acting. It didn't come easy for me. But eventually, once I kind of got the hang of it,

which was basically to do the opposite of what my mom wanted me to do, she'd always give me directions. And then I'd go in and the casting director would tell me to do the exact opposite of what she'd said. So then I would tell her that I did what she wanted, but I was actually doing what the casting director wanted. And then it would present more of a problem when, if I would book the part and then I'd be on set and she'd be telling me to do it one way and the director's telling me to do it a different way. And that, that was, that was very complicated. But I did enjoy feeling like I was good at it, for sure.

Yeah, yeah. Can't you tell my loves are growing? You seem relatively healthy. I'm sure that you have your days, you know. Sure. You seem relatively healthy. I'm sure that you have your days. Sure. But it is just, whenever I talk to anybody who's, and I've talked to a number of performers that have been in this business for a long time.

And some of them I'm like really amazed at how well put together they are or how good they are at hiding it. Because it just, it does just seem like such a minefield to send a little kid into, you know, and I would after when my wife and I split up, they moved in and do into an apartment building here in Burbank that had a lot of people from out of town who were here because their kids were actors like that. They were, you know, like on young Sheldon or you know trying just or just here from wherever from texas or kentucky like just giving it a go and it was so hard for me like in the dog walking part to not go the dog walking part to not just tell people like oh you're you're gonna fuck your kid up like this is really i would never do this i'd never let my kid do this

yeah you know people ask me a lot uh parents will Hey, I want to put my kid in acting. And like, do you have any agents numbers? And it's hard to not say, Oh, I definitely would not suggest putting your kid in acting. I think even if the kid absolutely wants to do it, there's no, I don't think there's any way to kind of get to adulthood unscathed. Even if you have the best support system around you, even if you fall into amazing productions with really great crew members and even with the best possible experience, I think just the kind of psychological twist of being a child performer

is so bizarre and so obscure that I don't think, yeah, there's, I don't think it's really possible to be unscathed, but I do think there are people who have navigated the experience so well. And I find it so inspiring. People like Scarlett Johansson. It's like, I I'm amazed Natalie Portman. It's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is, you know, it's, it takes it does take it takes it's a it's extra parental duty it's like you got to really you got to really do it right as a parent and i also don't want to just like i mean i wouldn't do it with my kids but i can also understand i can totally understand a family that needs money yeah and they got they got a little kid that wants to do this thing and they got people that are willing to you know know, give money to this kid. And, you know, and now with the Coogan accounts, although I understand yours got fucked up.

series, I believe, and made a ton of money and his parents stole it all. So they passed legislation that when you, your kid is an actor in show business, it goes into an account that the parents can't touch. And yeah, I believe 20% goes into an account. I might be wrong with the percent that maybe they changed. Yeah. I don't, I don't know exactly either. I do know my daughter when she was about four, she had one line on the Sarah Silverman program, which was just a favor to Sarah. And so we still, every year, unlike the end of year, there's a Coogan account that comes up with, you know, like $12 in it or something. You have two kids? I do. I have a 16-year-old daughter and a 21-year-old son.

Did either of them want to act at any point or did they, my interested in it? My daughter expressed interest. When she was, I'm guessing 10 to 12, something like that. And there were kids in her school cause it's LA. And she went to a nice LA private school. There were kids in her school who were starting to work and starting to get

jobs. And she started, and she's also she's very especially back then. She was still very outgoing. The 13 years kind of, you know, when your teen years settle in and you don't want anyone to look at you for the next six years, that sort of changed it. But she used to be just a she was like a USO show walking around all the time. And she thought, you know, and she also was in like little school plays and stuff she's really good she's very you know i can say that as objectively as i can but she asked me about it and i just i i talked about it before on here and i told her i don't she told me about it and I just kind of brush it off. And then finally, one time she really kind of pinned me down and I said, honey, if you

want to act, we can find community theater stuff for you to act in. You can be in plays around here and stuff. I said, but I don't want to put you in this business because you will be surrounded by people who want to make money off you and they will treat you like they love you and that you're their friend, but they want to make money off you and they will treat you like they love you and that you're their friend, but they want to make money off you. And all of those people, while they're acting that they love you, they will be judging your voice. They will be judging your face. They will be judging your body. They will be judging the way you move. They will be judging the way, you know, everything about you. They will be judging, judging, judging.

And, um, and I said, and i don't think that a young person should be put through all of that kind of judgment and all of that sort of like having a price put on them so i said no and i said and if you get if you want to work when you get to be 16 you can work at the you know you can sell tacos or you can work at the grocery store or somewhere you know i mean if you want work at the grocery store somewhere. You know, I mean, if you want to work, do that kind of work. And also, if you're serious about being an actor, if you work at the taco store, you're going to have a lot of better experience. You know, the kids that are working on these TV shows, all they know is TV and movies.

They're not going to have any life experience to draw from. Yes. Yeah. I wish that more parents said that to their kids. That's amazing. How take it was she she's okay with it yeah and i mean and now now she doesn't even really want to act in school plays she wants to do tech in the school plays because it's just she likes to be around it but she does you know the no she just does she's like uh i don't need everybody you know both my kids are kind of they're not you know they're she just does she's like uh i don't need everybody you know both my kids are kind of they're not you know they're not like they're both capable of carrying a conversation but both of them have always been kind of like my son when he was little and it became time to start

playing sports and i we went to a friend of his a soccer game i said hey do you and he likes soccer i said you want to play soccer he goes like I don't want to do anything where other parents are here yelling. All right. I guess you're not going to be playing sports then, you know, I guess it's, you know, art and music for you. And, and so, yeah, I just, I, and I also, you know, I, I started in Chicago in phone production on working on television commercials. And I just saw like a cut. I had like three or four very formative experiences with child actors and their mothers. And it was always mothers that made me go like, this is fucked up. This is like, really, this is not healthy.

up this is like really this is not healthy and there's so much so much projection going on you know like so much like this is not about the kid this is about the mom as like with yours so absolutely their unfulfilled dreams and desires is your does your son still is he still in the arts or is he is he yeah he's an art student he's an art student at USC that's so cool yeah yeah he doesn't know what he wants to do with himself but sure I don't I don't I don't I feel like nobody tells you that I didn't realize that at 21 that I just assume like 18 I still got oh I'm kind of kind of a kid but like an adult in some ways but by 21 I felt for sure, I need to have everything figured out. And I got to have all my ducks in a row. And I got to know how everything worked.

I didn't realize the 20s were just going to be a shit show and just throwing stuff at a wall and hoping it sticks. No, absolutely. And it kind of goes on. I mean, I say it as a joke, but it is kind of true. I have this joke where i'll say like you know one of these days i'm really going to start firing on all cylinders i'm going to really i'm going to get my shit together i'm going to i'm going to really get this life on track and i know like i'm 50 fucking five i you know i had i haven't had a long career and I have a family and raise kids, but still in me, there's this person that's like, oh, shit, there's that other thing I'm supposed to be doing that I'm not doing.

And, oh, I should be writing. And, no, I should be, you know, exercising more. And, oh, I, just, and I don't know, I I'm hoping as I get older, I have a hunch that all of the improvements that you want to make in your life, you'll be lucky to make 15 to 20%. You know what I mean? Like, and that, and that will be success. That will be like, like, if you can take the person that you are now, and by the end of your life, you're, you have this laundry list of things that you want to do and that you think you should be. You can get like almost like up to like a quarter of that. You did fantastic.

Based on the people, the old people that I know and what the way that they've disappointed themselves, you know. Well, let's see. So what do you when does it start to hit that you're making a living? I mean, you know, and do you do you have to quit school? little bit early on and then started really bringing home, you know, a significant amount of kind of the family. Some by the time I was 11 and then by 14, I was, I was cast in the show. I Carly were, I was a series regular. So then it was much more kind of 11. You say I was 14 when I got 14, 14, 14. Um, and, but 11, when I started making kind of more of my family's pot of money. And then, yeah, at 14, I got cast in the show. And that was, yeah, it was more of a financial, some sort of financial stability. But of course, it's Nickelodeon, not it's not a network it's not a network paycheck there's no residuals and do you get a point i mean do you get is it is there any leverage when a show like that becomes a hit and you and it comes time to renegotiate or is it always just

kind of treated like you know we'll give you a percentage bump up and that's it. Yeah. So there was definitely a little bit of leverage beyond whatever the percentage bump was in the contract, but it, but it, it was Nickelodeon and, uh, they always used that too. Like their own lawyers would be like, well, it's Nickelodeon. So it's like, you guys are making so much money off of this. Um, but, but it was, it was definitely, definitely more financial stability than, than I, I I I or my family, I think, had known up to that point. Yeah. Playing that character. I mean, do you do you really start to feel like you're hitting a stride and that you're and that you're getting good at it? getting good at it? Yeah, I felt, I felt good. I felt good at it. And I felt at the same time,

I felt really overwhelmed by like the show started really getting popular, like super popular, probably midway through our first season toward the end of our second season. And it got to the point where it was like going outside paparazzi be waiting outside the house level. Like it was really, really overwhelming. And I mentioned earlier being like a people pleaser and being really socially anxious. So I didn't know what to do with fame. I didn't know how to navigate it. I didn't know there's no rule book. There was no, you know, person to talk to. There's no, there was no guidance around that. And of course my mom's devouring it and just like, you know, telling me different poses to take for the pictures and like, get another know, telling me different poses to take for

the pictures and like, get another one, get another three for just so you have them to all the, to the parents who would want to take pictures and things. So she was like really, really loving it. And I, I think now that was when I started to resent her because watching her experience of enjoying it so much while knowing how much I was struggling with it and just dying for somebody to talk to about just even to like vent a little bit about, hey, this is a lot of pressure. This is really difficult. But I didn't have that. So I think that's when my resentment torture started. And I just kept kind of suppressing it and shoving it down and trying to just kind of be polite and mommy's little girl. And then she got sick. She was sick initially when I was two,

but she got sick the second time when I was 18, which felt to me like the time that I was just about to be able to confront her and be able to kind of call her out on some of the bullshit. And then she got sick. So then of course I can't go anywhere near it. Now I'm guilty that my mom's got a terminal illness. There's no way I'm going to say, Hey, by the way, you know, you've lived vicariously through me for 15 years and I'm, and I'm tired of it. Um, so the, the cancer really, I think complicated, complicated our relation and relationship and came at a really, really

ironic time in my life. Was she, uh, also I'm I'm guessing, I'd be willing to bet money, that she was really good at martyrdom. Oh, my God. If you attacked her, she'd go right to tears or right to, I've done this for you kind of shit. So when you throw cancer into that, that's like a fucking superpower to a martyr. She had the badge of honor. She loved telling everybody. I mean, it didn't matter whether she knew you, cancer into that that's like a fucking superpower to a martyr she had the badge of honor she loved

telling everybody i mean it didn't matter whether she knew you whether you were a churchgoer whether she was at albertson's checking out the groceries wow she would be telling everyone stage four metastatic breast cancer survivor mastectomy bone marrow transplant chemotherapy radiation like i i knew that list of of what she'd been through yeah i hadn't memorized from such an early age just because of how often she would spew it to everybody um and oftentimes like to get free things you know she'd try to get discounts she'd try to get extensions on bills um i guess she was kind of clever in that way but it was it was it was constant it was constant you say this was when you started resenting her.

Do you think that when your success started and your talent started to show and be appreciated that she resented you? Oh, my God. I'm so glad you bring this up because it was such a mindfuck. I had been doing what I thought was my mom's dream for years. At that point, it had been over almost a decade. And then all of a sudden- At 16 or whatever, that's crazy. Yeah. For whatever that is, almost three quarters of your life has been doing this. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then she started getting really jealous of me and would say things like, I have fans too. Or her favorite was when Vine started becoming a

thing. She was like, I'm going to make a Vine account and I'm going to make comedy videos. And you better watch the fans that I collect, baby. She'd always slap a baby on me. She'd get so theatrical. Now I think it's very fun. She really was quite, she didn't know she was being funny, but she really had quite a distinct kind of cadence and way of praising things. But so she became jealous and I was so confused because I thought, well, this is what you wanted for so long. And now I have it and you somehow seem mad that I have it. Um, while also, of course she wanted me to have just more and more of it. And so it felt like, I felt like I couldn't do anything right. I felt like, well, I, I don't, I was completely at a loss and just didn't, didn't really know what to do. Um, and, and, uh, it was confusing. Yeah. And your dad

through this whole thing again, it's just sort of a ghost in the background. Couldn't have said it better myself. Um, uh, this it's so, I mean, I know we we're laughing but jesus christ that's awful um did she now you know you're you're already in this weird sort of crucible like this pressurized environment that's also kind of in in some ways it's like it's like easier easier, you know, like you're kind of, you've got this little bubble and you're around these funny, you know, funny, talented kids and you're getting to do this fun stuff and kicking around ideas. And I, you know, on a, well, I mean,

I imagine that was a pretty fun set, although there is like the Dan Schneider stuff. There was definitely no kicking around. You said kicking around ideas. There was no for anybody's ideas on that set. It was very much one person's ideas and one person's ideas only. And yelling if you didn't do that one person's ideas. Okay. Well, yeah, forget the fun set.

Never mind that piece. No, but I did have great friends in Miranda who played Carly and Nathan who played Freddie on the show. And Noah and Jerry as well. You mentioned earlier everybody sort of being likable and they were just as likable, if not more so, in real life. Yeah. So that was very, very nice. And then Miranda and I remained close throughout all the way up kind of until my early 20s. until my early 20s, we were really, really close.

And having that friendship to be able to not only have during the show, but to be able to have after the show and working through the kind of ebbs and flows and piecing together what was that experience and how wild it was, that was really, I think, one of the best gifts of the entire experience. Yeah. Could you share with her kind of what you were going through with your mom? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

We, we shared a lot of stories and have a lot of, a lot of crossover in a lot of ways. And a lot of, we have, we have a lot of connection points. I'll say a lot, a lot there to explore together.

That's good. Well, then that, that tells me not to ask the next question. That's good. Well, then that, that tells me not to ask the next question. How, I mean, you know, this is your, your, your working, you're, you're a teenager. I mean, can you have any kind of like regular teen life at all? Like whether it's dating or whether it's just like learning how to have friends outside you know no hanging out it was so bizarre because i um because i've been homeschooled i think that was sort of one bubble and then there was also the mormon thing which is another kind of weird bubble and then there was fame which is bubble. So it's like bubbles on bubbles on bubbles. I didn't really know how to kind of just be be social or or or make friends other than, you know, my I had my friends on set. But even with dating, I think back on it now. And truly, it's only been over the past few years where I realized that like guys were flirting with me or like asking me out. I thought I had such low self-esteem at this time

when I, it's bizarre to me because of having so much praise and on the one hand and being in the public eye, but I had such cripplingly low self-esteem that I had no idea. It would just fly over my head if somebody liked me and it wasn't me being coy and like, I don't think they like me, like actually know it. Like I did not know. I had no idea. And only recently I've been thinking of those people and thought, well, that could have been a nice kind of experience. It could have been fun to maybe, you know, date somebody that maybe there could have been some sort of a little kind of healthy relationship there and have some sort of normal normalcy with the dating. But instead I wound up dating a 32 year old when I was 18. And that was my first experience. Shame on you. 32 year old men are the worst. I'm sorry. I know I just met her. Guys, come on. I thought, I thought I am so mature. I don't know why his friends don't,

why his friends say that he shouldn't be seeing me. I'm thinking, I was thinking I was so mature and there was the most emotionally stunted 18 year old that probably most people had met. I mean, I don't know. I hope there's part of me that hopes he didn't know it, like he's just super dense and shallow, but then there's

part of me that probably thinks like, no, no he knew, and that makes it even kind of evil. Sure. Knowing this person, it could go either way. Yeah. Oh that makes it even kind of evil. Sure. Knowing this person, I could, could go either way. Yeah. Oh boy. I hope he's listening. You fucked up guy. But also, you know, I will say I do, I do think there was a really positive aspect of that relationship and that it, it, it sort of was a, one of the, the inciting factors for me realizing that I maybe should step away from my mom.

I was realizing, oh, maybe my mom isn't all good. Maybe I should not have her on this pedestal. Maybe I should try to figure out my own identity. And he was instrumental in me. Oh, he sort of would say like, hey, that's, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He'd say your mom shouldn't write you an email calling you a slut and a floozy and a whore write you an email calling you a slut and a floozy and a whore um just because she's having a some sort of a mental you know some sort of a mood swing or yeah yeah yeah can't you tell my loves are growing um so it's i i, did you ever have any kind of, uh, any sort of like confrontation with her? Were you ever able to kind of, I mean, towards the end, because when I met, when she started, when she, the last time she got sick, did she just continually get sick or was there sort of remission and recurrence or? sick or was there sort of remission and recurrence or? No, she got sicker and sicker. And then there were, there were multiple sort of, this is the end point scares. One of them, I remember she had

a seizure. This image to me kind of feels like the tone of my life and why I think humor is important. She was having a seizure, frothing at the mouth. An ambulance comes to pick her up. I'm holding her hand in this ambulance and we zoom past the Nickelodeon on Sunset building with the billboard for iCarly. It's like bright purple, bright yellow. I'm sitting there with my arm on my hip,

like cheesy smile, airbrushed beyond recognition. And we're zipping past an ambulance. And I thought like, this is, this is life. It's, it's billboard, it's, you know, sitcoms and cancer. It's like billboards and ambulances. It's never, it's never just one of those things. And it was, it was a really informative moment, I think for, for, for, for me.

But I lost the question. Oh, just, just, did you ever really, did you ever really get a chance to get stuff off your chest with her? No. And I think that's such an important question. No. And it's, and it's, and it was really hard because I would have loved to have confronted her about anything, any aspect of any of it, but I just didn't. I felt too guilty about the cancer. And then after she died was when I found out about my dad, who I thought was my dad not actually being my dad. of compounded the complicated feelings toward her because I was just left wondering why didn't she, she knew that she was dying for years and she didn't tell me or any of my brothers the truth of our childhoods and what, what had happened. And I don't know how she took that secret to the grave. I really, I, it's beyond me. And I tried for a long time to justify her reasoning and to make sense of it and to find, give her the benefit of the doubt.

But ultimately, I felt like trying to justify it was a moot point because I don't respect it, whatever her reasoning was. It could have been anything. And I don't respect that she didn't tell any of us. pretty kind of a cowardly move and, and certainly not, not the way that I want to live my life. I think, I think it really, I think it was a really kind of shitty thing and pretending it's anything

else would be a disservice to myself and my brothers who also experienced the same thing. And also just general human decency thank you yes you know there's just there's like when you say like that she had her reasons what possible like i just you know it was it was prince charles and it would ruin the monarchy like what what could it possibly be that would take away from just letting your kids know the truth about where they come? Do you, have you met your biological dad

and do you know him? I have. I have met him and one of my two brothers who's also, that he's also the father of, has met him. I saw him quite a bit a couple, this was a couple years ago, and would do kind of like Sunday brunches. And I've met my half-siblings, and they were really great. I like my half-sister a lot. But it felt awkward just because

I hadn't known this person. I approached him. So, uh, he, you know, he said that he really had wanted to be a part of all of our lives, but that there was, I guess, a big custody battle. And, um, and it just, it's, it seemed like there was this whole, the more I talked with him, the more information would come out and it just, it felt a bit overwhelming. And, and, you know, my brothers don't have a, have really one of my brothers has met him as i mentioned but they don't have a relationship with him so uh it just felt like a it just it just felt like a lot did it also did it feel like you weren't you couldn't be sure what the exact story was and so it just yeah i feel like i don't really know where to where to get it or how to get it and trying to get it was was just kind of not not

was getting to a point where it wasn't healthy for me yeah and ultimately it's you know exactly you are who you are and you know exactly it doesn't it's not that it doesn't matter but you certainly it's one of those things that you know you can you can do without you can you know totally a lot of stuff you can just jettison. And then, yeah. Feeling, feeling like, okay, I, I, it is the past. Let's keep it in the past. And the more that I draw on it, it's going to just continue dragging into my future. I don't want that anymore. Um, that, I think that was an important thing to do. Yeah.

In the, in sort of the, the time after your mom passed, were you able to hold it together or did like even just – because I know sometimes even unhealthy systems are systems that contain you. And when that unhealthy system goes away, you can kind of come a little bit undone. And I'm wondering if there was an aspect of that happening to you. And when that unhealthy system goes away, you can kind of come a little bit undone. And I'm wondering if there was an aspect of that happening to you, or was it just a sigh of relief? I wish it was that simple. I wish it was a sigh of relief. No, it was definitely, for me, my destructive coping mechanism of choice was eating disorders. My mom had actually had struggled with anorexia for a long time herself. And so she was the person who initially taught me calorie restriction when I was 11 and she would monitor my weight. We had weekly weighings. She would measure my thighs to make sure my thighs didn't get bigger from, from week to week. So I really learned those unhealthy habits from her and how to restrict from her.

And then even to the point where on her deathbed, I told her my, like, I feel like this thing happens where everybody tries to get the person who's going to die to wake up from their coma. Like they're saying a piece of good news in the hopes that the person will wake up like but it doesn't obviously doesn't work that way good news isn't going to wake someone out of a coma but I think it's just a a a thing certainly a thing that me and my family did so my brothers each like gave her good news and one of my brothers is like I'm moving home and of course she's still in a coma the other brother's like I'm getting married she's still in a coma and I'm like I'm 86 pounds thinking that that would be the thing that would get her out. That was truly where I was at in thinking my weight is mom's happiness. My smallness is mom's happiness. So then she dies and I'm not able to keep up

anorexia without her. And then I fall into bulimia pretty brutally for a couple of years and also really struggled with alcohol issues. And then eventually, several years in, started getting a lot of therapy and help and support to get over those issues. Did somebody help you with that? I mean, at what point did you decide, okay, this is, I got to stop this. Um, uh, and, and X of mine actually had said, Hey, you, you need to stop with the bulimia or I'm, or I'm walking away. Like this is, I can't watch you do this to yourself. If you're going to do this to yourself and do it on your own time, but I can't, I can't watch you, um, do that. And then my, my sister-in-law also, um, my sister-in-law, I, I, we were eating at a restaurant. I went to the bathroom, stepped out of the stall and she was standing there and said, you need help. And I'm going to help you look up some names and you're going to call somebody tonight. And so that was,

that was definitely something that I think was really cool of her to be that confrontational and just that bold. And, and, um, did you just say yes or did you push back? Uh, I reluctantly said yes. I reluctantly said yes. Um, and thinking like, okay, when she, when, when she's gone home with my brother, I can just like duck out of here. But then, um, but then I didn't feel that way. And I, and I knew she was right. And I think I, I, some part of me, some part of me knew that what I was doing was wrong and wanted help. But I had to, unfortunately, go through so many experiences of self-destruction before feeling like, okay, I need something. I can't keep doing this to myself.

And I saw an amazing eating disorder specialist who helped me with – used a multitude of therapy kind of modalities to help. And it was very, very custom and didn't feel at all like he was just, he seemed passionate about what he did. He really seemed like he was in it and really present and engaged. And I think that's hugely responsible for my recovery. Yeah. That's a good therapist. The ones that just where you feel like you're there three o'clock, those are the ones, you know, you know, you can feel them glazing over. Yeah. Yeah. Like, okay. Oh yeah. You, here we go. What, let me remind myself. Okay. You know, this issues. Okay. Go ahead. Um, how does this period, uh, change your relationship to work? I mean, you've got your mom who's,

you know, been the one holding the whip as a manner in a manner of speaking, just in terms of show business and doing this. How does that change now that you don't have this, this person pushing you? I stopped acting. I felt like that was important to be really definitive about like walking away because it had been such a part of my identity and something my mom had wanted for so long. But I really doubted it. I doubted the decision before I went back and forth on should I quit? Should I not quit? Should I quit? Should I not quit? I've been working on a Netflix show. It got canceled. And I thought, well, this is a good, this is a good timing. I told myself I'd do the

show till the end of it. I'd see it through and I didn't have anything lined up and thought, well, this is perfect. I'm going to, I'm going to quit now. What age is this? I was 24, 24, 24. Yeah. And, and also I felt like I could either do, um, yeah, I could do soul, soul sucking sort of acting work, uh, just because of the show that I'd been on the types of, yeah, that tangent but uh yeah no yeah that is you can go where the job you you don't like the jobs you're getting exactly yeah yeah yeah you got me um exactly I felt I felt like my soul could not withstand much more of that and so I felt okay, this is the time for me to walk away, close that door, and really just focus on recovery and healing. It sounds so cheesy, but like in the truest sense, it was just that time period for me and kind of threw myself into getting better for several years. And yeah, I still haven't acted and it's been six years at this point. But I really do enjoy writing.

And now I'm working on a collection of essays and a novel. And I'm enjoying that. Oh, wow. That's great. That's great. Hope something happens with them. But we'll see. Did you get a lot of pushback when you decided to stop acting?

None. Three-minute phone call. Three-minute phone call. Wow. I'm like, hey, guys. Did that sort of sting a little? Did you want like, oh, nobody begged me. Yeah, sure. I'm like, Hey guys, did that sort of sting a little? Did you want like, Oh, nobody begged me. Yeah, sure. I hung up. I think that's what started the self-doubt. I was like,

shoot, it was that easy. Should it have been that easy? Did I make the right decision? And then for, I went back and forth on it a lot for, for maybe a year afterward of, of should I still do it? But I knew that that feeling of like, eh, that, that hesitancy wasn't going to get anywhere good. If I'm, if I'm, you know, if I am still acting, but from this place of like, I don't know, like, that's just going to be, you can sniff that a million miles away. Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever consider college? Just, I mean, just to be a dad about it. No, I never considered college. I thought, I thought, well, I should say I did consider college, but I never went through with any of the work. It was a thought that crossed your mind.

Yeah. I hear this thing called college. People my age are doing it. I, I felt, I really wanted to do what I, if I could have waved a magic wand, I want to do writing and directing. So my kind of like grand plan was to set aside the amount of money that I would have spent on college to make short films and to kind of try to, to get some footing there and, and, and, and learn as much as I could. So I, I So I used that money to make short films instead of go to college. You know, you probably would have gone to college and made short films. So what the fuck? You saved tuition and still ended up, yeah. Exactly my thought.

And I also think, you know, I, yeah, I was able to, as opposed to it being like crafted around some sort of assignment or I'm sure there's a lot of creative, I hope there's a lot of creativity there, but I was able to, as opposed to it being like crafted around some sort of assignment or I'm sure there's a lot of creative. I hope there's a lot of creativity there, but I was able to just make what I wanted instead. You learn so much more by doing than you do by learning, you know, than by sitting in a classroom. I went to film school and I learned more in like the first four months of being out of film school, working as a freelance PA about like what it really, you know, like what it really means to be on a film set and how it works and how the day works and where the

money goes. And, you know, you just, you need to be in the professional. It's, you know, it was the same thing when I did improv comedy. I took tons and tons of classes. You don't really know anything until you get on stage. And that's where you really start to get the miles on you that, that, that matter.

Did you actually start as a PA? Yeah. Oh my God. No kidding. Yeah. I started, I started, I went to film school in Chicago,

Columbia college, and I had an internship at a production company for about, so I worked for free for about six months uh and then I started out as a PA and it was all commercials um and I was freelance I worked as I worked on I moved furniture for a while too um but that was like that was just a a really that was paid probably better than the film production um sure but i and then i just started to do a little bit of everything because somebody calls you and says have you ever second ad'd and you and i went yep you know and then of course i hadn't and when i get there i whisper

can you show me how to fill out the contracts for the x i was gonna say that's a hard one to have not done i feel like second ading just jumping into that would be really to have not done i feel like second a ding just jumping into that would be really tough no it's a this the entire film industry is built on bullshit it's built on like it's built on mostly european immigrants who came over here and said like oh what how does this thing work oh oh what oh wow look it projects on a wall and you can see a train coming at you hey well i'm interested in this and then they just you know that nobody taught anybody how to make movies they just had this somebody came up with a camera and the film and then it was like oh let's i think an hour and a half is probably a good length of time you know it's just everybody just figures it out so yeah it's just like it's

extended on that and it's also really good you, I was put into situations like when I first started because I ended up doing mostly props. But like I got hired by a company that would come in. They were from Minneapolis and they would come down to, you know, subcontract jobs. And I would I would work for them. And they and they kind of knew, you know, how green I was. But they would just give me, you know, like they'd say, we need this, this, and there were other people doing other things. But one of the things in the commercial was this dishwasher needs to open on its own.

Like it needs to open on its own and then be able to close halfway and then open all the way and then close again. Yeah. And here's the dishwasher figure. And here's a, here's a, you know,'s a here's a you know like a workshop with lots of tools and and stuff figure it out all right you know that means you take it apart and you run fish line and you know you make sure see what level of fish line you need and you pull the line from the back you know good god yeah you just figure it out it's and it was really fun it was

really like oh you liked it you know i loved it i love it was really fun. It was really like. Oh, you liked it. You enjoyed it. Oh, I loved it. I loved it. I loved the problem solving. I liked the pressure of it even good to me because I wasn't, you know, I get my thing coming from a lot of upheaval in a family and not feeling a lot of control and always feeling, you know, sweaty over confrontation and, you know,

panicky when, when things got tough to have it's tense situation that I can handle. It felt great. And, you know, and it's and it's and it was the beginning of like a lot of work that turned out really pretty good. You know, so that's so cool. I didn't know that background. Yeah. And it also, too, I think it gave me something which I it gave me a perspective that I'd see that a lot of actors don't have,

which is the idea that you're a member of the crew and that you're, you know, you got a really cushy job. You get your own toilet, you know, nobody else gets their own toilet. I mean, a few people on the set too,

but, but, you know, but don't look at your, you know, don't be an asshole about how long everything takes and how much work it is. Because I have an appreciation for how long it takes to light something. Yes.

We did tabletop commercials in Chicago where it'd be like a loaf of bread. And it would take, I never fully understood it, but it would take six hours to light that loaf of bread. And then you'd have a scene with 20 people in it and, you know, in a, in a set. And that would take an hour to light. you know,

I just, I think that the, the margins for error are more when you get out, but these, you know, like they're so particular with these, with these beauty shots. Yeah.

I did a Domino's pizza commercial and I remember them spending, even before the lighting was happening, the food groomer? Food stylist. Food stylist. Thank you. Would come and spritz with the water bottle. She'd spritz the pepperoni cups, and then she'd flatten things out and add the cheese, and it was, um, it was fun to watch. I enjoyed, I enjoyed watching her. I think it was, I think, yeah, that was always those, but those jobs are kind of a pain in the ass because they take so long, but they were,

I think it was Domino's. They set up a full like Domino's kitchen in this soundstage because they were getting the, the, the lift of the slice with the perfect strings of cheese and there's yeah and there's like a 15 second window like where it's like you know like you got to get it out of the oven and by second 42 you've got to have lifted that cheese or it won't work or it just you know congeal them yeah and so it was like delivering a baby it was like you know like the pizza we need to be 45 more seconds on the pizza okay roll you know here we go put it down turn it a little go oh shit you know the cheese didn't stretch enough i do i love set anxiety it's it's i think it's it's really um it's fun and it's also easy to get swept up in.

And it's also so funny, um, just because it is so often for, you know, for strings of cheese on a pizza. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know. Like there's sometimes it does, it doesn't pay to step back and think about like what you're doing. Cause it's like, no, cause you'll just, you'll never stop feeling ashamed that this is important to you um well now you you did you you're are you redoing the because i'm glad my mom died started as a live show correct um yeah i did i did a live show

version that got kind of stopped because of covid then i did a second run of the live show and then um then the book is sort of, I see the book as very separate. They're the same title. They cover the same material, but the live show is like a musical and has a lot of interactive elements. And the book, basically the book

is not just me writing out the live show. It started with the intention of it being a book, but I hope to do the live show again at some point. I think it'd be, I think it'd be, it'd be fun to do. I really enjoyed the audience connection. We never, we never did any of the shows that I worked on in front of a live audience. So I didn't really know what that was. There's, they had just a laugh track, you know? So, so. Oh, you just taped, you just taped them. Oh, yeah. We just taped them. Yeah, we just taped them, no live audience. So it was really cool to get that connection. I like that a lot.

Yeah. Would you ever get nervous before tapings, or did you feel like you were just so used to it that you wouldn't feel any shift in your nervous system? On the Conan show, I didn't get nervous before because there was just there was. There was just so many of them, you know, and I've talked about this on here before, too, which just my way of people who've heard this before. Just give me a break.

She hasn't heard it. So, you know, I, I would, I'll do, you know, I would do that show four nights a week in front of, you know, a million ish, you know, if we were lucky people. Um, but then I would go and someone would ask me to do an improv show, uh, in a black box theater, uh, you know, in, in Hollywood. And I would be a nervous fucking wreck really yeah in front of 30 or 40 people because what was why because it's improv and because i was rusty and because i was rusty and it's like you know it it it's like a somebody you know who was a good basketball player who's now a sports writer at being asked to play basketball again you know and just being like oh i'm gonna look so bad i'm i don't know if i can do it i don't know you know um and so that would sort of i'd get that kind of pressure and i get pressure in sort of newish situations and in different rooms.

I'll get a little bit nervous. Nothing like I used it, like in the beginning, what I used to get nervous or be made nervous by. Have you done improv recently? Not for a while. I've talked about it on the Conan show was mostly like at UCB. They would they would have this long form improv where there were people that they'd have monologists that would come on and just tell personal stories. And then they would improvise kind of riff. Oh, I did one of those.

I did one at UCB. I did my monologue. I didn't do the improv. Yeah. Ascat. It was I don't remember. I don't think it was Ascat, didn't do the improv. Yeah. Yeah. Off-log improv. Ascat? It was, I don't remember. I don't think it was Ascat, but it was the same format of monologuing. And then they did a Herald or whatever.

A Herald. Yeah. That's the original. That's the Chicago original long form improv, which is, you know. But the Herald didn't have to just be monologues. And it could be, there could be games, you know, like group games in the middle between the groups of scene work. But I would do those. And so I got, you know, I got very comfortable doing those kind of things and telling those stories on stage.

But doing the actual scene work was it's a different skill you know it's not just being yourself and saying like huh so they're talking about a shoe store oh yeah that thing happened to me in a shoe store um you know like thinking of a character and like making something that's you know you're not really trying for the joke but you're trying to be funny so you're like i want to give something that's good um and the last time i did that was a fundraiser for ucb and there were a bunch of people that i know for like amy poehler was part of it and as we were going on stay and matt besser one of the other ucb people and i think matt walsh was in it um as we're going on stage i thought thought I was just doing like, in fact, it was a long form that was based that where the things in between were songs.

Oh. So I was going to sing a song I knew. And I was like, as we're going on, I was like, so am I going out with you now? Or did I just come out when I'm doing my song? And somebody was like, no, no, you're doing the improv. You're doing the whole thing. And I was like, oh, okay. And i had like 10 seconds to sweat good though because you didn't have the absolutely absolutely oh my god i if i if they had told me about it the day before it would have

made the day shitty you know oh yeah the dread in the stomach yep so i just i had to do it there i was and i mean and i also too i'm used to at this point for many different reasons, being able to hold it together after go, go now. Yes. You know, and and so I'm like, all right, I can do this. And I did it and I did fine and I it was good. fine and i it was good and then when i was done i was like well i you know i asked myself so do you want to do more of that and the answer is no no that was okay you're good i'm set for another few years you know i mean uh it's you know i don't i don't know it just i don't get enough charge out of it i just don't it's it's nice it's I, I, from the day one, when I did improv, the, if the show got canceled, which like in Chicago would happen all the time because of weather or

whatever, I, we still would go like, I would go hang with all these funny people and we'd hang out and get drinks or whatever. And that was what I wanted. But you didn't hear that it was canceled. And then not in front of an audience.

I, you know, like that made it easy. Cause it's like, well, we don't have to do it for those people we can just do it for ourselves just go somewhere and be funny and make each other laugh for ourselves interesting because i was going to ask if you'd at some point had the charge but it sounds like it was yeah just

never really never there for you it would no i definitely i really liked it when when i started doing it um but it also too was like it was a a means to an end. I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to, I wanted to, and then, you know, and then eventually get on television. So this, so I, you know, it was school for me. It was school for me, but it, but I never, and there are people that believe in it as an art form and do it until they're, you know, very, very old. And I just sort of saw it more as like a thing to do. It was in Chicago. I was in, I was good at it. It was good training for what I, you know, for ending up, I went to

film school. I want to get into film. I didn't go to improv school. I, you know, I mean, I kind of did, but, you know, and so I got into film and I'm working in film and I'm working in television and that's kind of like, okay, you know, I don't, you't you know it's like if you get a job as a writer you don't need to take an english class right right right so it's you know i mean but that's unless you like english class you know it's you know so yeah do you feel do you feel that charge toward acting now or is it like yes oh cool i do like acting and i like being good at acting and i like making tv shows and and and and and being good at acting and I like making TV shows and, and, and, and, and being good at making TV shows. I also have directed a little bit, which I know you have too. And you like it.

I love it. I love it. I direct, I like direct, I've directed commercials. So it's not like I, I'm directing a crew. I'm not, and it's not like, you know, a tale of a young lads coming of age. It's a fucking commercial you know, a tale of a young lad's coming of age. It's a fucking commercial. But it's fun because you're making a movie and it's a little movie and you got this much time and you got this list of stuff you got to do.

Yeah. And this amount of money. And it feels like a game show. Like, beat the clock. You know, like, we got 12 hours to shoot all this stuff. Let's go. You know, oh, there's a problem. Problem solved. You know, like, making decisions and to shoot all this stuff. Let's go. You know, oh, there's a problem. Problem solved. You know, like making decisions and moving from one thing to the next.

It's that I like. It feels very grown up. Yeah, I agree. I'm not the best at putting out fires generally with like any sort of life, you know, the day to day of life. But I feel like on set, I'm quite good at putting out those fires and knowing kind of what the situation needs and how to move on from it and how to keep on time. And I really, I like it a lot. I feel like it's a good way of channeling that hypervigilance that I got from an abusive environment. It's like channeling it for good. Yeah, I can take it. I can take it. Yeah. Yeah. I want to direct the young lads coming of age. If you're not going to do it, I'll do it. You can do it. You can take it. Yeah. Yeah. I want to direct the young lads coming of age. If you're not going to do it, I'll do it.

You can do it. You can do it. Well, speaking of which, the second of these questions is kind of where are you headed now? And we kind of talked a lot about that. But I mean, where do you see yourself? What do you see yourself doing from now on? I'm working on a yeah, I think I mentioned this earlier, but a novel and a collection of essays and working on Bold at Once because to avoid burnout, frankly, on one of them. I usually I find that I hit walls. You've written essays for Wall Street Journal, right? Do you have a regular gig for them or is it just sort of a relationship? It was a no, it was it was just a relationship kind of and it was in my early 20s. And I did Wall Street Journal and then I did Huffington Post more recently.

I did Wall Street Journal and then I did Huffington Post more recently. But even kind of thinking on those, I remember just, I knew that I wanted to be writing, but I was still, I don't feel that I was nearly as honest as I've been in the memoir because I was, like I wrote something on body image and I'm thinking now in retrospect, well, if I'd been really honest, I would have said, hey, I'm writing this whole thing on body image. And then four minutes later, I go and throw up. Like that was what my life was. That would have been honest. Um, but I do think it was an important kind of stepping stone to get to where I am now, but I, uh, I've loved writing, writing the novel. That's been really fun. It's nice to not

to, to be exploring and playing, uh, in a world that's not my own. And that's not, that's not so personal. It's, it's, it's nice to not have to do therapy sessions after writing the chapters. That is good. Well, but I mean, what do you, I mean, is that kind of, you just sort of setting down that road, you think? I would prefer to keep writing and directing would be kind of definitely writing and directing are the ultimate goals. I would prefer to go in that direction. But I've only recently actually thought maybe there's a world in which I act again.

I didn't think that was possible. I had walked away from it so definitively. So like washing, dusting off my pants, washing my hands clean of that, like that's in my past. And I think I think that was what I needed to do at the time. I was 24. that's in my past. And I think, I think that was what I needed to do at the time. I was 24. Um, and now that I'm wise and 29 slash 30 slash nobody knows, um, I feel like I, I I'm interested in, in finding a better relationship with acting. You know, I don't think it has to carry the baggage

from my past. I don't think it has to be this thing that carries that weight for me anymore. I think there's a way for it to be fun. Again? Yes. Was it ever fun? I think it was less so fun. It was always quite stressful for me. It was more the only enjoyment I think I really had was just from feeling good at it and enjoying my friendships. But I think there's a way where I could be, it could not do that wreckage to the nervous system that it used to do. I think there's a way where it could

just feel like, oh, I like this and I want to be doing this and I feel safe in this environment. I feel good. I'm hopeful at least. I don't even know what it would look like, but I'm open to the idea. Yeah. I feel like that's gross. A part of me now kind of feels like that being open to ideas that you were at one point kind of close to feels like growth, or is that just. No, it does. Right. That's, that's one of the, yeah, I often, there's different things that I've come across in my life that I think are part of being a grownup. And that definitely is, is being able to change your opinion on something uh you know that you really you were like no planting the flag yeah that is done forget it um and then coming back and going like wait a minute you know i mean giving yourself the permission to be wrong about something yes giving yourself

the permission to uh not be scared by something that scared you before. Yes. That's all grown up stuff. It's all, you know, like it's going to be okay. And all of this stuff is part of me and hiding stuff. And this is just from my experience. It doesn't work that well. Right.

It's a nightmare. It doesn't work that well. Right. It's a nightmare. It doesn't work that well. Yes. I mean, there's some compartmentalization you can do, especially like being in the public eye. There's you and then there's you. being in the public eye there there's you and then there's you you know there's like there's this person that's out there uh that's this you know that's not really me and then there's this other person that is me and that is compartmentalization and that's by definition by most people's you know like mental health dictionaries that's not healthy but it sure is that it's like a a

useful bacteria because it keeps you sane because the people that let those two things become the same thing ah it's almost always is ends in sadness disaster it's so it's so funny to see this because i uh ahead of this i was listening, multiple, many episodes of the podcast, but I, uh, there was one where you mentioned, I forget who you're speaking with, but you mentioned, um, kind of a similar point on, on the concern with, with somebody taking their personal life kind of public. And I was like, Oh, he's going to have a heyday talking to me about my memoir I'm talking about all this personal stuff yeah but a memoir is a different thing I think I was talking to somebody who was like making their like and I've had you know like turning like they and their

spouse get a commercial together you know like that kind of thing or where you know like all of your sort of you know magazine articles are about your life together. And I always think like, I don't know. No, I could not agree more. I feel like it's so important to have those boundaries, which is something I had no awareness of growing up. I was just a complete enmeshed blob with my, with my mom. But I, the, the, I find them to be a continuously more and more important piece of life is like, okay, where do I end and does this thing begin? And what's for the public and what's for me? And what are my emotional, mental, physical, environmental boundaries?

I think it's an ongoing process. It's definitely a stumbly one, but I feel. Yeah, it takes. Yeah, right. It's like something I'm sure it's just always going to be that way. It's never going to be like, oh, and now I've totally figured it all out. It's just not. Yeah.

It's like touching oven or touching stoves and finding out, oh, that's hot. You know, like, you know, like I wouldn't know unless you touched it. So. Right. Well, what do you want people to take away from your story? I mean, you've written a memoir. So, you know, you are just you're laying it out there. You're laying your life out there. And I just, you know, like, if you could sum call it. Um, you know, eating disorders, Mormon child stardom or child acting, teen stardom, abusive parents. But I, but I,

I hope people appreciate the humor because I think that's, uh, that's, that's, it's certainly been an important piece of my life. And I, I think, uh, I think just taking yourself too seriously isn't, doesn't, it's, it's, it's not fun and it doesn't lead anywhere good. I think it's, it's, it's, it's not a positive, doesn't lead, it's not a positive path for me, at least. I was a very serious child and I'm glad to have more of a sense of humor than I had then. And that's great.

Well, Jeanette, thank you so much for taking all this time and talking to me and for being so open and sharing so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I know I mentioned this off the record, but I was so excited when I got the email about this and I've just been such a fan of yours for so long. So I'm really grateful to be able to talk with you. Thank you. Me too. That's like I said then too. I said, you just wait, I'll butter you up too. So, all right. Well, thanks and good luck with the book and, you know, the novel and the essays and everybody go buy everything that you see with McCurdy on it. And we'll be back next week with more of The Three Questions. Bye-bye. I've got a big, big love for you. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Your Wolf production. It is produced by Lane Gerbig, engineered by Marina Pice,

and talent produced by Galitza Hayek. The associate producer is Jen Samples, supervising producer Aaron Blair, and executive producers Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at your wolf. Make sure to rate and review the three questions that Andy Richter on Apple podcasts. This has been a team Coco production.