The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Joe Mande

Episode Date: December 17, 2024

Comedian Joe Mande joins Andy Richter to discuss his work on "Hacks" and "Parks and Rec," his new Hulu comedy special, finding his New York comedy family, why he loves trolling, and much more.Do you want to talk to Andy live on SiriusXM’s Conan O’Brien Radio? Leave a voicemail at 855-266-2604 or fill out our Google Form at BIT.LY/CALLANDYRICHTER. Listen to "The Andy Richter Call-In Show" every Wednesday at 1pm Pacific on SiriusXM's Conan O'Brien Channel.

Hey everybody, welcome back to The Three Questions. I'm your host Andy Richter. This week I am talking to Joe Mandy. Joe is a comedian, a writer, an actor, and he's currently a writer and executive producer on Hacks. He also wrote on Parks and Rec, Kroll Show, and The Good Place. His new comedy special Chill premieres on Hulu December 13th. Here's my conversation with Joe Mandy. My parents were just in town and I made my dad get a Fernando Valenzuela t-shirt. For real. Was he happy too? Yeah. For real. Was he happy too or? Yeah, well, I guess the folklore is that my sister was born during the 1986 All-Star Game. Oh, wow.

And Fernando Valenzuela was literally pitching. It was on TV or over the radio. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wow. See, I will always associate my son's childhood asthma with the whatever year that the Diamondbacks won the World Series because Randy Johnson was the teacher. Wasn't that true?

That was right after 9-11. Yeah. That's probably right. Yeah. So you don't associate 9-11. No, no, no. Just because I sat in the ER and watched. And I don't know if that was the,

I might be conflating it, but if that was the time he killed a bird. Oh, that- Was that during the World Series? No, it was not during, that was a regular season game. Regular season game, all right, yeah. I like in my mind, it's just, it just makes it feel like a jam-packed game.

Sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got a bird exploding, two buildings exploding. Right. A kid's lungs exploding. World Series, yeah, yeah, there got a bird exploding, two buildings exploding. Right. A kids' slums exploding. Yeah, there's a lot there. My darling sons. Oh, boy. Well, you know what? The first question I want to ask in light of recent events, because this is the Friday after the Tuesday election,

and I've done two recordings, both Wednesday and today. Comedy! Yeah. And I just, my question that's at the front of my mind for everybody, and I'm going to ask you is, why do anything ever? You know, it's a great... Why do anything ever? Uh, yeah, no, I know. It is, uh,

the thing I resent the most is this notion that like, well, at least he's good for comedy. Oh, no. It's not true. The worst... No. The reaction to whatever he is has produced some of the worst comedy. Yes. Either to fight the power or equally,

or if not more so, the people sort of attached to it. You know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that movement. I have never been of the, like the notion of doing topical humor, and it's also just my taste and the sort of how I started and what, you know, the progress and the show that I was on

and the shows that I've been on. It's like, I don't, it's not funny. It's not funny. Like the news isn't funny. And that's also like, I don't want to deal with that. It's like, I don't know. The death of a relative can be funny, but the news is not funny.

You know? Yeah. It's, I don't know. So to answer your question, I don't know why to do anything. Yeah. Other than like, I... I mean, I'm kind of joking.

You know? I know, I know. But you gotta do something. You gotta do something. Yeah. Yeah, I saw you post at least the Timberwolves are winning. Yeah, they won last night. Yeah.

That was fun. That was fun for me. We've got that. Yeah. Yeah, I was... It's been really weird. Yeah. Yeah, I was, it's just, it's been really weird. Yeah. And I haven't, you know. Because people aren't, to me it seems like people aren't as distraught this time.

There's more of like a sort of rueful acceptance or something. Yeah. And well, the thing is, I think what's taking the, and I mean I don't wanna talk about this all hour, but I think what's taking wind out of the sails is that like the people that chose him, like the first time they chose him, we could be like, you guys have made a terrible mistake

and you don't realize it yet. Now we're like, no, no, they knew exactly what they're doing. So I don't think we're gonna be we're like, no, no, they knew exactly what they're doing, so I don't think we're gonna be making pink pussy hats this time. I'm doing more like a rust brown. I'm still sort of a calico. But yeah.

Yeah, no, it's weird. So you're from Albuquerque, New Mexico, huh? You're born there, huh? Born in Albuquerque, yeah. Why did your parents end up in Albuquerque? My mom was born there as well. So I have like, my mom's side of the family. Is all down there. Is all in that region.

And then my dad sort of ended up there as a lawyer. I don't really know the story behind it other than that was where his first big job was. Isn't it funny how you can like, hey, why were you here to meet mom? There's like things that I have in my life, like the two, like, oh, I never asked. Like I never asked that.

Right, yeah, I mean, and then, you know, like, one of those things where she worked at the law firm and it would be a totally inappropriate relationship in 2024, 25, but back then, that's just like how you met people. Yeah, that's how you did it. Yeah. But you didn't grow up there, right? I moved to Minnesota when I was 11. Yeah.

Yeah. So I spent, it feels like spent like half my childhood in New Mexico, half in Minnesota. Yeah. Yeah. And do you, I mean, are you of both places then? Do you feel like? I feel like because the real like formative years of my life, I feel Minnesotan. I feel like a product of St. Paul. And I do love those twin cities and I love going back there. But there is like a weird thing when I visit New Mexico where there's like a weird.

It still feels. Yeah, like this feels like home. Like I have a weird connection to just that specific geographical location. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Do you feel like that those places sort of formed you

in any particular way in terms of like your comedy? Like the way that your comedy is different from other people's comedy? Well, you know, there certainly weren't a lot of, like, snarky Jews in either Albuquerque or St. Paul, so I do feel like I... Right, well your parents wanted you to be special. Yes, yes.

I think it must have formed some things. You know, I think I was really lucky. My high school weirdly had a improv comedy troupe. Wow. So like, I was performing comedy from... What year was that? my high school weirdly had a improv comedy troupe. So I was performing comedy from... What year was that? That was 1998, 99 was when I joined. Wow, that's very sort of progressive.

Like that's, I could see it now, you know, cause improv is corny. Right, yeah, totally. Yeah, but then that's very progressive. Right, yeah. And there's a bunch of comedians weirdly went to my high school. So like Charlie Sanders was my improv coach, and Colton Dunn went there, and Nick Svartzen before my time.

Wow. Yeah, so weirdly there was like something in the water. That is, yeah, that is kind of cool. Yeah, but even like I had an inkling, I used to watch Comedy Central in my house in Albuquerque with a weird premonition that I was like, I'm gonna be wearing an ugly sweater and telling jokes on stage in New York.

You know what I mean? I just had a weird, I don't know, inclination that that was going to be me one day. And weirdly was never like the funniest one of my friends. Like, you know what I mean? Like I always hung out with funny people. And so like, you know, socially maybe not the funniest, but I knew that's what I wanted to do. Yeah. And stand up was always it.

Yeah. Yeah. I, even when I was doing improv as a high school student, I felt a sort of, uh, annoyance that I, I wasn't coming up with the best stuff right away. Yeah. You know what I mean? I would always like go to bed and think of a better joke. So that's sort of like where I was like, oh, okay, with a little preparation and time,

yeah, maybe I could be a little funnier. Yeah, that is the downside of improv. And I think everybody does. Oh, fuck. I could have worded that so much better. Yeah. Rewriting it. Which is why like I am always,

and among the improv stalwarts, the UCB diehard Bolsheviks that I came up with, I kind of feel like improv, and I always feel this way, and I mean, I have, there are people that are dear to me, like beloved friends that have made, we're gonna do a feature and we're gonna improvise it.

Right. And I'm always like, why don't you write it down first? Why don't you save some time and streamline the quality control process and write it down? But, you know, people still, they love the spontaneity of it and I think the spontaneity of it is great when you're sitting in the same room with people. Yeah, right.

But other than that, no, write it down. Give yourself another crack at it. Write it down and then improvise. Yeah, yeah. That's the best of both worlds. Right, exactly, exactly. So do you let your folks know, and first of all, are you an only child or do you have?

No, I have a little sister. You have a little sister. And do you let them know that this is kind of your career path? Totally, yeah. I mean, both my parents are lawyers and never really pressured me to, you know, do that. I was sort of a ham forever. Yeah, so I ran for like student council president

as a full bit, like fully a bit. Oh, just a bit? Yeah. Wow. And then one, and then was like, oh no. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so I was always, and tried to get a public access TV show off the ground.

Like, you know what I mean? I was always like trying to produce stuff. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it was very clear that something was going on there. I was desperate to make things comedically. So yeah, it was clear, but I don't know if anyone really understood what the game plan was. Right, right. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Does there, because I mean, you do like the, like the thing that sort of brought you to wider attention was a website called Look At This Fucking Hipster. That's right. Which got, and I mean, didn't it, wasn't there a book that kind of started to- There was a book. Yeah.

Yeah, no, it was like a very strange time. I was one of a few Tumblr blogs that made a like, yeah. Got book deals. Made a splash. Made a splash. And I was freaked out by it. I mean, it was an anonymous blog. And it was, yeah, weirdly making this impact.

But I was, I didn't really, I felt uncomfortable about it. And then the only reason the book happened is my friend from college was a book agent and he knew I ran the blog and he said a guy came into the book agency claiming to be the author of the website trying to get a book deal and he was like, you should jump on this before this bozo gets your book deal. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You should jump on this before this bozo gets your book deal. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then, you know, totally a completely illegal book. We tried to like get the rights to these photographs, but people just lied and said they took the photos when they absolutely didn't. So I'm sure that book lost money. And it was just like photos of people on the street, like one of those like, you know, like what people in New York are wearing, sort of fashion-y things.

Yeah. Yes, yes. And you don't have to get the rights to the people that you're making fun of? No, I mean, yeah. Yeah, I guess if you're out in public, your fair game is what I learned. And I do, yeah, so that was like my first thing. And I was very worried that that was gonna be my legacy.

Like I was, you know, it was like one of those things where it was fun and easy to do, especially as an anonymous figure, but then suddenly my name's next to it and I'm trying to like get a standup career off the ground. And, you know, the book was enough money that I got to like live in New York City without a job for a certain amount of time, you know what I mean? Which is like the dream.

Oh, shit. Um, but then, you know, there were moments where like I'd be at a restaurant and like the waiter was like someone I've like publicly mocked. And so I had a complex about it where I was like oh this is not the person I want to be. Oh so you would see a waiter and you'd be like oh fuck I made fun of that guy's pants. Yes yeah yeah so I you know I it after you know it's not the thing I'm proudest of and sometimes I'll say that to friends and they're like yeah but the jokes were fun mean, like people were there for the jokes.

Yeah. And the reason it was anonymous is because you're making fun of people. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you know, it's like one of those things where like, you never know what the thing is going to be that gets people's attention at first, you know?

So I was able to like capitalize on that to some extent and get a real, legitimate career going. But yeah, I still feel like a little bit of guilt or something. And where does that come from? Like, yeah, because you mentioned like the discomfort as it became sort of something that, yes, you're gonna make enough money to live in New York. But what is that? Is that discomfort because you feel bad because you're making fun of people

or because you're gonna get caught? You know, I think it was like at first, it was sort of like these people were certainly easy targets and you know, you could say, looking for attention anyway. So, you know, this is like part of the deal you could say, but, um, ultimately it was a lesson comedically in punching down or something. You know what I mean?

And I was, I was really young and surrounded by people that were making me crazy, you know what I mean? So it was like an outlet for that. But yeah, in retrospect, I didn't have much control in the matter at a certain point. It kind of like spun out of my control. Like it became a thing bigger than I was ready for, and I was trying to just hold onto it.

But certainly deliberately made sure it wasn't my life. I did not let it take over my life. I got offers to expand it and make it a brand. You're Jump the Shark website or whatever a brand. And I was like- Your Jump the Shark website or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was just like, no, I want to just do standup. And like, you know, like let this urban outfitters book

exist, you have it's own lifespan. Also, if you know you got more, then why just fall back on this one thing? Right, yeah. This was such, I can't stress enough, such a side project. It was something I spent 20 minutes a day on occasionally. Right. And then, yeah, it became this whole thing.

And this is, and that's in like 2000, that's early 2010s in there. Yeah, actually like late, late 2000s. Oh, late 2000s. When did the book come out? Around like 2011 or something. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Because I also think too, because that's sort of when I started, like I got it, I was, we had done the Tonight Show, we did the Conan Show and the All-Star Game, the MLB All-Star Game was in Anaheim. And I got it like a day of call, or maybe it was like, it was booked the day before, but I was playing in the like old timer celebrity softball game. And so I was gonna, you know gonna be driven down to Anaheim and one of the production coordinators from Conan said,

hey, they said if you get on this Twitter and tweet about being in the game, they'll give you a new iPhone. I was like, oh, fuck yeah. So I like, that's my first intro into Twitter. Like I had been on Facebook and hated Facebook. Sure, of course. But I was like, we're gonna Twitter, okay, I'll try it.

And then instantly sort of like understood it was like a joke writing gym. And I made like people that are still my, like IRL friends, you know? And it did expose me to some really funny people that I never in a million years would have gotten to know. Totally. There was a moment there where it was just really a gym,

a hive of two groups of people. It was like comedy writers and journalists. And they coexisted and sort of intermingled. And then people who just wanted to like experience and eavesdrop and like occasionally write whack jokes back to you or whatever, but it was sort of like those were the two communities and then things got really serious and preachy and pedantic. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And. But, but of that time too, it was super snarky. Super snarky and- It was like everything sucks. Everything, yeah.

And I think that's why I thrived in that world. Yeah. Yeah. And is that, but I mean, is that, because like when you tell me, like you ran for student council president as a bit, I guess a grown man, do you look back on that and think that was a good thing to do?

Yeah, who cares about student council? Well, but I mean, but it's just, you know, there's just sometimes I feel like the comedy of nothing means, I mean, in here, I fucking started this thing out by why do anything. But there is like, I have found that like, as I've gotten older, the comedy of just kinda like, fuck that guy, this is bullshit, look at these assholes.

I don't, it doesn't give the sustenance that it used to. Well, in my defense, my high school had a sort of panel, a council of leaders. So I was running for one of 10. I see. So then, like it was sort of like, the whole thing was absurd and overly complicated. And I was sort of the chaos agent. And then I got on and then, yeah, immediately took as little responsibility as humanly possible.

Well, listen, I ran for student council vice president. And this is so fucking arrogant, but it's 100% true. I knew I could have won president, but I didn't want to do all the work. So this other guy that was very serious about it, I was like, why don't you be president or not? You were Dick Cheney. Yeah, exactly.

I was, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I don't know. There was something, I did like being involved. Sure. I did have, like, I'm an asshole. There was something I did like being involved. Sure. I did have like, I was an ass. I'm an asshole and I'm a cynical prick. But I also like from an, I've always been sort of, I like the feeling of involvement.

Sure. Yeah. I, I mean, I was a member of the student council. Right. And I, I've always been interested in politics. I guess the- I don't mean to like put you, like defend your Student Council career. Well, my must.

It's become that. I'm sorry. No, no, no. It was just like, I did not expect to actually make it to this. It was called M Team, short for Management Team. And I was assigned the role of student life vice president. So my only job was to like after school dance, like... Like morale.

Ask, yeah, do surveys about how like, how was the dance. And then I just like made up numbers. Yeah, yeah. And then presented them to the rest of the team and they were like, we know for a fact you didn't actually do this survey. They're like, you can't prove that. Well, we can't find anyone who said

you approached them to ask. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I just, I look back on those times and I certainly was a snarky fucking asshole, and publicly insulted Andrew Zimmern once, and then he, within three minutes, was like, "'Hey man, what the fuck?'

And I was like, "'Oh yeah, right, this is a human being,' and I just made fun of him because it was a good punchline." Because his entire job is eating balls. This land wide for just these dicks. It was like, and at the time too, it was the same, you know, you got used to it at the Conan show.

It's like, oh, here's a joke. And then, and then there, but there's a fill in the blank of a celebrity. Right. And this celebrity has to be someone that's kind of, and then you pick it like sort of like too sexy or, or a pompous ass or a mess. You know, and then you just like, oh yeah, that person. And you sit in the room with people and go like, what about, you know, what about this guy?

Nah, no, no. This is- Until you land on the quote unquote right one. Yeah, the person that fits the joke the best. And I told him at the time, I was like, I'm sorry, man. I was like, I just, I thought of the joke and I just needed, and it was your turn. I'm sorry.

You know? But I mean, you know, cause it's like, I had Steve Albini on this podcast and he talked about, cause he was a big online edgelord. And he like recanted his edgelordness as he got, you know. I think that's a part of growing up on the, like in the internet age. I mean, I remember like once I started writing for Parks and Recreation, I was still acting like myself online and things like people were,

I had tweeted a couple things that people were actively contacting NBC and my boss to try to get me fired. And I was sort of just like, oh, Twitter is not, I have a real job now and I deleted everything. I was just like, once you have a real job, get rid of, don't leave, you're just a target on your head, you know? Are you, do you, do you have the bravery to back up like shit talking? For sure.

You do? Yeah. Like when people confront you with it, you can handle it? Yes. This was also part of my decision to stop tweeting was that I, like, I had no problem doing that, but it was consuming my day because as things got darker, it was like arguing all day with literal Nazis.

You know what I mean? And how you're not gonna win that. You will win the arguments logically over and over again quite easily, but it just keeps going and going. And then, yeah, then one person like sent me a picture of my house and then I was like, I got it. I got it.

Chill. Can you give an example of like what one of those sort of like problematic posts was that caused you to sort of... No, I mean, I was just fighting all day long. Oh, just fighting. In the replies, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

No, I relate, I relate. But I wasn't even like, I wouldn't fight so much about jokes. I would like fight about like gun control, you know? And then I'd get like things sent to drawings of me were full of bullet holes, like little line drawings of me full of bullet holes to my house and to my job.

And I was like, I think I might back off the gun stuff. You know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was so on tilt that people would be like, I'll see you in San Antonio. And I'd be like, all right, as long as you buy a ticket, bitch, I'll see you there, you know? See you at the merch table.

Yeah. You know, you could buy one of my t-shirts. This is the guy I kill. For sure. Yeah, I also too like made what I thought was a very benign, during the QAnon days, I said that, I said, well, they're like children. They feel like they deserve a reality that's way more exciting and interesting

than the sort of banal reality of life. Like they're just the random sort of humdrum shit. Objectively true. Yeah, right. Right. And I had split with my ex-wife, and my ex-wife was getting calls from people asking for me. And I was like, oh, just, okay.

I can't do that. Cune on rocks. Yeah. I wonder if the Trump wind takes the wind out of their sails. Oh, well, there's no... Or if it reenergizes them them because they seem to have died down. No, they were just Absorbed. Yeah into the that electoral block. Maybe they're just they they occasionally throw chum into Yeah, you chum into the water, but they're all there now. They're just part of the party, right?

Right. Yeah, but they're not they you know, but the lore and the secret. No, I mean, it all, yeah. That all went away, you know? But maybe there's still time for the storm. Right, right. Now you do, I mean, because I mean, I follow you on Instagram and I used to follow you on Twitter and you do follow sketchy shit.

Oh yeah. It seems like your daily diet of online consumption is, well like in your special you joke about like that you've seen every ISIS video. Yeah. Do you still keep up with the ISIS videos? Well I mean as we know our dear leader destroyed ISIS. All that god in one day.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah I mean not necessarily like specifically ISIS, but I do have a threshold, a certain tolerance for like human misery that is sort of like my superpower. So I'm able to like sit and watch stuff that I know most people after a couple of minutes would be like, why am I doing this? Yeah.

Why do you think that is? I don't know. I've always been that way. I'd rather, I guess it's sort of like oppo research or something. Like I always just like want to know like what's going on on the other side, you know? So yeah, like when certain things happen,

my tendency is to like go and watch that side's media. And I'll watch comedians. Like white supremacist shit too? Yeah, maybe a little bit. I mean, like, yeah, before I really under, like once we got like a modem in my house, I, as a little Jewish boy, found myself on stormfront.com just reading like Nazi message boards,

just because I like found it fascinating how like free spoken these people were. And is there like an ironic detachment where it seems like it's not even, yeah, like it's a fantasy world that's not really happening? No, I mean, I'm not like like it's a fantasy world that's not really happening. No, I mean, I'm not like, that's why I think that's where the tolerance comes in. It's not like impacting me too much.

I'm just like reading stuff, like just, you know, I'm curious about these people and these like beliefs. And so it's, you know, it's similar to like, I'll watch any documentary about cults. I'm obsessed with cults. You know what I mean? Yeah, cult documentaries. It's a similar thing. I guess it is just like, I mean it's not too far from cult mindset. I guess it is like you can expand that to different groups of people.

I guess that's sort of where it comes from. But yeah, and it even goes to comedy, I'll obsess over comedians that I don't respect and watch every single thing they do. Yeah. That's amongst my friends. I have multiple text threads where people will be like, I would never watch this,

but I know you've already watched it, so just give me your two paragraph or two. Yeah, no, among comedy people, like, and I just, because we have a lot of mutual friends, like, I know that you are, like, there's an elite cadre of fucking shit-talking comedians. Just like a text chain that is just, you know. Yeah, that's, I mean, if I'm worried about anything, Like a text chain that is just, you know.

Yeah, that's, I mean, if I'm worried about anything, it is those chains getting- Getting public traction. Yeah, I would have to just actually join ISIS. I think I would actually, I would have to actually move to another continent. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I asked you like, why do you think that you're, you're unaffected, but what do you think it is about this content? Like why, why do you, you know, these are people that I'm imagining you think are abhorrent. Like that are shitty, awful people.

Yeah. Why do you need to, what is it about you that makes you wanna see every nook and cranny? I guess it is, I find it comforting weirdly to just know what I'm up against. I don't know what the correct terminology is. No, I- You know what I mean? But it's just like- Yeah, I do.

I'd rather not just live in ignorance or like build a certain monster in my head without any information. So like, it is just a way to inform myself. Yeah, I don't know. Is there a toxicity to it at some points? I mean, it's certainly not a healthy way to live. And I do like, I have learned to, like, it used to take over.

You know what I mean? Like, I have a certain amount of obsessiveness. So, like, I didn't know how to, like, hit the emergency break and be like, that's enough for tonight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I think I've gotten better at that of managing it. Checking out when it's in there. Yeah, yeah.

And has it given people in your life that love you, are they like, have there been interventions of like, Joe, maybe? No, no interventions. I mean, the only thing was I spent, you know, who knows how much time, I don't know why we keep bringing up this ISIS joke, but that ISIS joke is like a good distillation

of my comedy process, I guess you could say, because I found an area that I was obsessed about. I was watching too much, like we were describing, and then knew that, I guess that's always the challenge for me when I find a topic like this, is how can I talk about this on stage? How can I make this funny? And I've never had a joke just bomb, so to speak, over and over again so many times.

Like, you know, but like knowing like there is something here, you know, and, you know, pruning the joke and it was, you know, taking things out and replacing it until like I got it to a point that I was like, okay, it is finally the thing I wanted to express. And still divisive. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the, like, my ultimate goal is, I love when I can bring a sensitive topic up and portray it in a way where, I guess,

like, no one's satisfied, no one's happy with how, with like, the place I've ended up, but like, everyone's satisfied. No one's happy with how, like the place I've ended up, but like everyone's laughing. Like that's my, yeah. Like my special is coming out soon. I have a joke about gun control that is like so insane that if you are against guns or like guns, I think you can still laugh at it being like,

I don't know, I don't know. I don't know what to do with that. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. When you got out of school, did you just sort of start doing stand-up? Yeah.

So I went to Emerson College, which is sort of a comedy school. Is it? Yeah, I mean like it is sort of like a hub for a number of things, but a lot of comedy people come out of it. Did you know that going in? Yeah, yeah. I actually went to the University of Wisconsin for a year and it just immediately became clear to me that that was not my place, that's not...

Madison, right? Yeah, Madison. It's a great school and I had a certain amount of fun there. But... Very Big Ten kind of feel. Yeah, it's a Big Ten school, quite literally. I think it was the first week I started looking at places to transfer.

So I was like, oh, I'm in a tiny town, a giant college in a tiny town. I was like, oh, I'm in a tiny town, a giant college in a tiny town. I was like, I wanna do the exact opposite, you know? And yeah, I found Emerson, went there. How do you find out that there's comedy people coming? Do you just notice it in a few different people you respect resumes or whatever? Yeah, that's basically it.

Becks resumes or whatever. Yeah, that's basically it. Hilariously, most of the people like that, who I wanted to sort of follow, a lot of them didn't graduate. So there was a part of me that was like, so I gotta go there, but then not graduate. But then my parents- Mom and dad?

Yeah, they weren't down with that. So I did graduate. But Emerson sort of has this portal where people go directly to LA and start looking for work. And I did not. As writers. As writers or whatever. Or stand-ups or whatever.

Yeah, yeah. But I moved straight to New York because I was like determined to do stand-up and it just to me made more sense. New York was a place to do it. Yeah, yeah. When you start out, because stand up, I mean, and it's like anything, you know,

like good things are good because they're rare. And I've done stand up, but it was only like after I was a known quantity that I ever kind of did it. And I don't, I just came to the conclusion it's not for me. I like being on, I like being with people. Right. But I just, I can't imagine coming up because so much shitty standup.

Yeah. How do you deal with that when you're starting? Because you obviously have had a sort of pretty well-baked sensibility from an early age. Sure. Yeah. Well, you know, Boston was helpful because it sort of like, it felt like

being on training wheels a little bit. There were a few clubs there and my friends and I, we would sort of run to these shows as a unit. So there was a sense of community. We always went to the shows together. And you were all serious about. Yeah, but we also all kind of acknowledged the fact that if we were alone, we probably didn't have.

V2 chiptie. Yeah, exactly. Shy and timid. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, there was this little sort of cabal of Emerson kids that we would go to the comedy studio and a couple other places and got comfortable enough on stage to figure out our voice a little bit.

Yeah. So that's what gave me the confidence to go to New York. It was scary and I was alone and it was aimless. I was performing at these like just I can't even describe how dog shit these open mics were like like mean and and unsupportive and I I was definitely like I don't know how much more of this I can I can take like yeah taking this is just killing my soul. And then very like, luckily, I don't know,

a very strange thing happened where right when I was sort of at the end of my rope in New York and starting to like question my decisions, I got asked to do a college show at UMass Amherst where I opened for Eugene Merman and Bobby Tisdale and Leo Allen and 80 Miles. And after the show, they were like, wait, you live in, how come we haven't heard of you?

And they asked me like, what places are you performing? And I started listing off all these. And they're like, oh no, that you're doing it all wrong. And they gave me, you know, Eugene was like, come to our show on Wednesday, I'll put you up and yeah, discovered Rafifi and through that I became like immediate close friends with, you know, Gabe Lehman, Jenny Slade, John Mulaney, Nick Kroll, Chelsea Peretti,

like all these people I met like within a week of that first show. Yeah. How exciting. Yeah, and I really was like, oh, I found, I found my show. Yeah. How exciting. Yeah, and I really was like, oh, I found my people. Yeah, that is like, that's such a, because for me that was improv. Like getting into improv and then being like,

oh, this is why I felt so weird all these years because I wasn't around these people. Right, so even, so that was like my standup version of that. And so, yeah, like we would, and because there was this little club we were performing at, we were doing shows constantly together, even though it's a sort of a solo art form. Yeah.

There is a camaraderie. For sure. And a supportiveness. For sure, yeah. Because, yeah, and that's the other thing. Stand-up can be so fucking like, just weird and it's usually dudes, like standing around, like not sharing anything. Competitive. Yeah, competitive and like, you know, and that was like, in the early days of Twitter when I was doing stuff,

I had friends that were stand-ups who were like, why are you giving away jokes for free? And I was like, because I can make more. Right, yeah, no, yeah, there was... What the fuck, it's fun. There was never anything like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Being in that kind of like really warm and comfy,

you know, supportive bubble, do you start to worry like, oh shit, how do I, you know, because it is like one sort of like niche that you're inhabiting. Do you worry about like, well, I'm eventually gonna have to go to St. Louis to the fucking, you know. I wasn't worried, I mean, I wasn't worried about that. I mean, also I was just like, I had a day job

and I was just excited to get, you know, 10 minute spots anywhere and then slowly built, Baron Vaughn had a show. He was the one, the person who let me do half an hour for the first time. That felt so daunting. And then once you do half an hour, you're like, well, that wasn't that bad.

And headlining is just doing that twice. You know what I mean? It made it seem all realistic. There was a, I've always been sort of short-sighted about things. I never had like a game, a long game plan. And so initially it was like, I got to get booked on this show and this show and this show and I'll be set. And then the half hour show was really big for me at the time.

And then there became this sort of internal tension in New York between, like, comics who performed under 14th Street and above 14th Street. Like, if you... Jets and sharks. Kind of, but it was all comedy versus like the club comics. And yeah, so breaking that barrier, I then got my own show at Caroline's that I did,

you know, a couple of times a month. And that was big for me because I was like, well, I can perform outside of Brooklyn and above 14th Street. In the quote unquote legit room. Yeah, right. because I was like, well, I can perform outside of Brooklyn and above Flutein Street. In the quote unquote legit room. Yeah, right. And then started, yeah, started doing clubs in New York

in a way that was like, okay, so I'm not like a niche alt comic, I can perform anywhere. And then, yeah, started opening for people in cities such as St. Louis and those shows went well. And then, yeah, and then you start headlining and tour, and that's like you learn lessons doing that and stuff. Yeah, so. Like in just crowd management kind of.

Yeah, and then figuring out like, yeah, what, how to keep people's attention for that amount of time. And yeah, it's. Did you like that life, that life on the road kind of? Yeah, I mean, I was, that's, I, like I said, I didn't really have... You were young. Yeah, I was young.

And, you know, much like deleting all my tweets, I'm just so, so thankful that there's no, you know, library of best week ever. Because I got on best week ever, which was another, like, victory in my head of like, oh, I really made it. But the job was, like you were saying, like, like they would just give you, okay, so here are the three stories we're doing, so this is, you know, Lindsay Lohan upskirt, so just make jokes about her pussy or whatever,

and I'd be like, absolutely, yeah, you're giving me $300? Yeah, I'll say the meanest things I can think of about this person, I don't know. So those don't exist, thank God. But yeah, so yeah, I was like, young and doing that stuff and doing as much standup as I could, and it wasn't until, actually, I did, the first time I met Mark Maron, he pulled me aside and was like, oh, you're going to write for TV.

And I took it personally because I was, like, in my head I was like, oh, so I'm not, I don't have any stage presence? You know, that's how I interpret it. Right, right, right. And, yeah. What do you think he meant? But he kind of explained it, like he was just like, no, you clearly,

like you write kind of like, you know how to write short jokes and long jokes and you can tell stories on stage and these are all sort of qualities that show you have a lot of complexity as a joke writer and that's the type of skill set that a smart person running a show would want to utilize. And how soon after he said that, did that sort of become,

cause that's what you've been doing mostly for the last, I don't know, 10 years? Yeah, over 10 years now. Yeah, it was not too long after that. Yeah, I started getting work, but I was so convinced, I was only a standup, that I eventually got managers and agents, but I was still living in New York and was getting like job offers to come out to LA

to like become a writer. Just based on your standup? Like people seeing your standup, not them saying, you know, not you finding out there was an opening. No, no, it was like people were like interested in my, like liked my standup. What a nice thing to feel, you know?

Yeah, and I think I'm a difficult client because I was like, I'm not moving to LA for that shit. Like I was just like, there's certain shows that I was like, that's not gonna last more than a year. I'm not gonna like, I'm not gonna uproot my whole life. I'm like, yeah, I was like, are you, do you understand, I have a monthly show at Caroline's. I'm not gonna give that all up for that, you know,

for that whack show. And so, yeah, I did that like a number of times and insane to think about now. But, uh, yeah, but you know what, you know, the way things work too, that makes you saying no to somebody. Oh my God. It makes you so, it makes them want you more. How many times did I say no to this podcast? Like seven.

Yeah. Yeah. No, until I, until I, I was at your window, like tapping, right. How many times did I say no to this podcast? Like seven. Yeah. Until I was at your window tapping, saying like I'll release your address. I think you sent a screen grab of my house. I did.

Holding a lit Zippo in the foreground. So I wrote on a couple things and then... Like just kind of short-term? What was your first writing job? What was your first writing job? What was your first writing job? What was your first writing job? What was your first writing job? What was your first writing job? What was your first writing job? What was your first writing job?

What was your first writing job? What was your first writing job? What was your first writing job? What was your first writing job? What was your first writing job? What was your? It was Delocated, John Glaser. So I came in, John Glaser and the two guys who ran the show with him. And I was just there to pitch story ideas. So it was just me and a couple other people. It was before their season had started.

But because I knew the show so well and loved it, I pitched a few things. And then shortly after that, John was like, yeah, we're just going to bring you on as a writer because you get it. Yeah. I had no idea what I was doing. It was like trial by fire, but figured out how to write things in screenplay format.

Right. But that was so exciting. Then Nick Kroll got Kroll Show. And I came out for that for a while. That was awesome. And then... See, that's also too. You got in doing good stuff.

You know what I mean? You didn't start out just with some shitty staff job. No, no. And I guess that's always, like, that's been helpful, that stand-up's always been sort of my first love, is that, like, that's always been the thing I've relied on between jobs or whatever. Like, that's still what I love doing.

You've always got that. I wasn't, like, desperate to, and maybe I should have, I don't know, things, and maybe I should have, I don't know, things have worked out quite well for me, but like, yeah, I just didn't have the hunger to come out here and grind like that for a writing job. Be on an ABC sitcom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then,

there was actually a job I interviewed for while I was working on a parole show that was like a major network show. And I asked like, yeah, so I do stand up. So I'm just trying to make sure like if I take this job that like I'll still have time to do stand up. And they looked at each other and it was one of those shows that was kind of chaotic. And they're like, yeah, I mean, I guess if you tell us ahead of time, like you have a 930 set, you can like leave and do your set and then come back to work because they have like crazy hours. And I was like, oh no, I'm not.

Yeah, no, thank you. This is not for me. Yeah. And then like within a couple months, this is the sort of sliding doors thing in my life was that I had an interview with Tina Fey for 30 Rock to write there and shortly after that, an interview with Mike Scherr for Parks and Rec and did not get hired on 30 Rock, but then a week or two after that got hired on Parks and Rec and then moved out here for that.

And that was what brought you out here for a real. I do always wonder like, oh, what would my life had been if I had gotten the 30 Rock Chop, you know, because they were both at the time the two best comedies on TV. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, both really funny and really full of great jokes, but very different. Very different, yeah. Just different feel, different pacing, but like equally good.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah., but like equally good. Yeah. I mean, yeah. So, uh, yeah, then that's so 30. Yeah. So that was Parks and Rec. I stayed there for the last three seasons of its existence. And then, and did you like, I mean, do you like, if, if you could just, like, if you had a standup career that just, you know, where you were selling

out 10,000 seat places, would you stop writing for shows? That's a good question. I mean, I don't know. I guess that would be at a certain point, just a question about time management and money and like what made the most sense. But I do really like how I've managed to split.

I mean, it's sort of bipolar in a way, but like I do love splitting my year between being a room for half the year and then like touring and doing stand up the other half. Like that's sort of been the case. And it does like when I'm in a room for too long, I miss going out and doing stand up and doing my own thing. But then sometimes you are just like in a shitty hotel in, you know, Kansas City or whatever. And you're like, I kind of just want to be around my friends.

Yeah, yeah. You make jokes. Yeah, yeah. And that's especially when you're in good, funny rooms. They're pretty, it's a pretty nice place to be. Yeah, you know, and that is sort of like, that first mainstream job, the Parks and Rec job, was so fun and special.

And the camaraderie was so crazy that there is, I feel like I am sort of chasing the dragon. I do just wanna replicate that experience. And I've been really lucky and of like chasing the dragon. Like I do just want to like replicate that experience. And I've been really lucky and have been worked on great stuff. And I think it all stems from that of just like trying to reinvent that. Reinvent that, yeah. Do you have, do you think it shows that you want to, you know, run yourself? Have you been doing that?

Yeah. yeah. And then, you know, the industry is unknowable and constantly shifting. And so I haven't like gotten anything on the air yet, but yeah, I'm constantly working on stuff. Constantly, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of stopped. Yeah, no it is.

It's been so shitty, you know, and with the strikes, I just was kind of like, I'm not gonna do this anymore. Cause it just, it's like It's been so shitty, you know, with the strikes. No, it is. I just was kind of like, I'm not gonna do this anymore, because it's just, it's like I was signing up for a class and feeling bad about myself. For sure, and that is like, again, that's why I find stand-up to be such a great escape hatch for me, because you can really,

like so many things with television and film are out of your hands and have nothing to do Like so many things with television and film are out of your hands and have nothing to do with the actual work itself. And a lot of the times it's just like people's judgment on your worth or value in these like external ways that has nothing to do with the actual stuff you're writing and creating.

And so it is a business after all. So when that happens and a really great idea, or at least in your mind, a great idea falls apart for reasons that have nothing to do with you, it's nice to just be like, okay, I'm going to do an hour in Brooklyn, come see me. Yeah, so I, cause I know I can control that. Right. Yeah.

I wanna ask about your wife. I mean, first of all, that she is a, was it sound bath designer? She's a, well, she's a sound bath practitioner in her spare time, but she works at the ASPCA. Oh, okay. And that's like a therapy, a therapeutic kind of thing. And when, at what point did you guys meet?

We met in college. Oh, you met in college, oh wow. So we've been together forever. Oh, so, oh wow. So she's been along for this whole sort of- Literally was there for like the open mics in Boston. So she put in her dues. I do not expect her to come to any show.

Like she picks the shows she wants to go to. Right, right. Yeah, she was in the trenches. She was with you, were you guys living together the whole time? Oh, see that's, and that is really nice too. That gives you, you know, to have somebody at home, you know, loving you. And she, and that gets, she loves me because, like, she was there when I, like, was doing, you know, bar shows in Brookline, you know?

Yeah, yeah. So she's not, um, she's proud of me and whatever, but she's not, like, impressed by any of it. Like, she, you know, this is just, this is what I have to do to make myself happy. But yeah, we have a totally valid relationship that has nothing to do with comedy. She's not a comedian, but I do make fun of her a lot. Yeah, yeah, of course.

I mean, that's, she chose this life. Yeah, she knew, she knew your heart. Right. Your black, the blackness of your heart. Well, it is, it is funny because it is like, I do worry sometimes that I have this certain reputation of being like an absolute maniac, you know, and that is my own fault for sure.

Cause those are the things I like talking about, right. Indulging in. And it's a public persona that you put out there. Yeah, yeah. That is my own fault for sure, because those are the things I like talking about, indulging in. And it's a public persona that you put out there. Yeah, I know. But I say this in my new special, but I am a good boy. Like, I'm nice and loyal to my friends,

and the people who know me know that. And so that makes it extra confusing, but I am the way I am publicly. Cause I only play an asshole on the internet. Truly, yeah. I mean, I spend my time like cuddling my dog and making pizza. So yeah.

What do you think the keys to like the difference, you know, between good shows and bad shows, like in your experience and working on different things. What do you think the keys to the difference between good shows and bad shows? Like in your experience and working on different things. And you've worked on, I don't even see a bad thing. No, I've been incredibly lucky. I mean, you know- Like what are the mistakes that you see being made and what are the right things that you

see being done? Like, you know, that adage of like, happy wife, happy life, there is just like happy crew, happy life, that's every show I've worked on, like it seems like the crew is happy and feels like a part of the creation of something special. Absolutely. And you know, it is a job, but it's a job people look forward to going to.

So that's always been like the big lesson. One thing I learned early on is you always want to work for someone who likes their family. Yes, has a happy home life. Yes. Laurie Kilmartin and I talked about that exact thing. It's like, if you, if it's somebody that doesn't like their home life, you are fucked.

Truly, because, you know, like, if you have a job where things are going, like, at a snail's pace and then you realize, oh, this person just wants to stay and order dinner so they don't have to go home. Don't have to go home. Yeah, and so I've avoided that, but that's always been in the back of my mind a thing of, if you're not, if you are the boss,

like be mindful of that. Yeah. And yeah, if you are working for someone that you want them to be funny and talented, but also chill. I also, I've also always just had this feeling that you want them to be funny and talented, but also chill. I've also always just had this feeling of like, I think if we left at 8 p.m.,

we could make a show that's possibly maybe only one or 2% less funny than the one that if we stay till 1 a.m. Yeah. Like I don't find those five hours are very productive. And you're propping up your own neuroses and your own insecurity by saying that like, no, you have to do that this way.

That's another thing. I think an extension of that is just confidence in things. Like sometimes the funniest thing was the first thing pitch. Also, if something isn't quite right, to have the confidence to be like, okay, no, we can beat this. But ultimately that's like a touch thing, a feel thing.

Of like, what is solid and when you can move on and when you need to like fix things or rewrite. But there are certain jobs or certain people who like just can't commit to moving on. So you get a million rewrites or alts and it's all about like, I just need all the options. Yeah. Yeah, that's the, yeah.

The exacts when having been an actor on multicam sitcoms where it's always like, we have some alts for you. And a lot of times it's like, the reason that that first joke was there cause it was strong, you know? And now you're just making my job harder cause I can't act. I'm just trying to remember this like 26 line

or 26 word line you just gave me, you know? But to your first thing, that thing about a happy crew, I could not agree more. And I have always just felt like, how can you have a miserable set, especially for comedy? But I think it's for everything. How can you have a miserable set and then think that the thing that people are gonna watch will be lively and engaging?

Right, like how it has to bleed through somewhere. Yes! It just, and even, I mean there can't be a scientific test to it, but it's like I sure would rather live in the world where like it does matter. Right. in the world where like it does matter. And I have always been like, and I've always been shocked by people who are in charge of things who do not understand that morale is their job. A big, big part of their job.

And that they set the tone for everybody. And if you wanna make things good, be nice. Yeah. What the fuck? How hard is that? Be mean to people online. Yeah. But no, be nice to-

This guy gets it. Yeah, but be nice to people that are in your immediate vicinity. Yeah. Your collaborators. Right, right. Yeah. What are your sort of like,

what's in front of you that you wanna get done, that you wanna accomplish? A redo of the look at this fucking hipster? Yeah. Bring back that? Yeah, yeah, I wanna do a sort of dramedy. That seems to be hot right now. Yeah, we've laughed wanna do a sort of, um, dramedy. Uh, that seems to be hot right now. Yeah, we've laughed at the hipster.

Now let's get inside the hipster. Let's get inside, let's get in there. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like, things are so... um, unknowably strange right now. I don't really know what the... And like, again, it's just like short term. Like, I want, um, I want people to see this special, because I'm proud of it.

When does it come out? It comes out December 13th. And it's called? It's called Chill. Chill, and it's on? It's on Hulu. On Hulu, nice. I'll watch it.

I'm a fan. I'll send it to you. No, all right. Okay. All right, yeah. That would be so easy. Yeah. Although I do have Hulu. Okay, great. I'm doing that well. Oh, that's cool. right, yeah. That would be so easy. Yeah. Although I do have Hulu.

Okay, great. I'm doing that well. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I am pitching stuff to write and... What's it like out there? There are people wanting to hear shit?

You know, people love content. Yeah. My worry, yeah, I am worried that just everything will be TikTok soon. Yeah, it won't matter. But yeah, I guess I'm current, I've been working on this project for now four years. Oh, wow. That has had multiple lives. But there is a British show that I adore

called Stath Let's Flats. And Jamie Dimitriou who plays Stath and created this show, he and I are trying to make an American version of that. This has lived many lives and it's gone to multiple different networks and stuff. Yeah. And it is that process I'm describing where it doesn't seem like it's either of our fault

necessarily, maybe I'm just completely naive, but yeah, so we are still working on that. And that is something that if I could choose a thing I'm working on, that is still a thing that I would be very excited if that were to happen. But yeah, sort of out of my hands, we're still building it, yeah. And then you're going out on the road again in January,

East Coast. Yeah, East Coast, and then I just booked some shows in the process in the Pacific Northwest. So yeah, that'll be fun. Yeah. Love it. Yeah, yeah, and a little, it'll get you out of the house after the holidays.

But I got plans on January 6, but then after, after that I should be wide open. Yeah. Be careful. Just be careful. That's all, you know. It's just me. Yeah, yeah. Wear a disguise.

Grow a beard and wear a wig. What kind of advice can you give to people that would want to sort of follow in your footsteps and have, because you do seem to be like a fulfilled person. I am very happy. Yeah. You know, if I could have told a younger version of myself anything is that there's no path. There's no one way to do it. Especially in an endeavor like this,

people you know are gonna pop off early in the process and some people way later or not at all. But if you just... Like pop off, you mean kind of drop? No, I mean the opposite. Oh, you mean like go through, yeah, yeah, yeah. Become famous or get jobs before you. Your lingo is much younger than mine.

Oh, thank you, I am 41 after all. No, but I sort of had, um, resentment or, or, or I just focused on that in a way. That being. Yeah. In a way that was like, this isn't helpful to you and it's going to like hurt your relationships with people. And I, and I, and I, or, or just, uh just make things more complicated than they needed to be.

And I think I learned that pretty quickly, luckily. But like early on, I found certain things so frustrating that are so pointless to be mad about now that I realized that. So it is just like... Like shitty people getting things that you think they don't deserve. Or even friends getting things that we're both up for. You know, it is like...

Because everything, when you start out, seems so important and life or death. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. But ultimately, it's just like work on your own stuff. And that's kind of, I never know what to say when people ask me about anything. Cause, truly, truly. I mean, especially with standup, it's like,

that's the easiest one. Cause it's just like, just get on stage. Do as much as you can. But when it gets into like writing,'s just like, just get on stage. Yeah. Do as much as you can. But when it gets into like writing, I'm like, I don't know, I got hired through standup. And then acting, I'm like, I just get parts on things. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And I'm not, I would never say like, especially acting is the one I'm like, I suck. I suck at acting. I can only- I don't think that's true. I can only talk like myself. I have no, literally no range whatsoever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

But I mean, I think you're, it's a, like in hacks, you're very funny in hacks. Thank you. And I just saw the, I just was catching up on that show recently and saw the like trivia night version. And I mean, in that, it's like, you played that really well. Like a fucking, you know, like officious prick, you know, like rule follower, you know.

Yeah, so again, I just play myself, so I don't know any other way to do it. But I think, you know, yeah, if you're a creative person, it's just create stuff and don't worry so much about. Yeah, if you're a creative person, it's just create stuff. Yeah. And don't worry so much about... Yeah, the methodology. I used to tell people, like, when they'd be like, you know, what is it? What is the...

How do you get a career? And I would always be like, well, you take some improv classes, and then you become a talk show sidekick. That's right. And then shit just opens up from there. I mean, that's my advice. That's the door. So yeah, it's like, it doesn't matter. And you're right too, like envy, like envy is natural.

It's gonna happen, but it is not useful. It's not useful unless it motivates you to work harder on something. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's sort of the way I was able to channel it. Just a little bit of an oomph. It's just a way to like...

It can't be like the main meal that you're sustaining yourself on. Not at all. But if it can kick you into gear a little bit, maybe that's healthy. Yeah. I kind of like kick you into gear a little bit that maybe that's healthy, but yeah, I just, this stuff is so weird and it's partly a meritocracy. Oh yeah. You know what I mean?

Like if you're good, people will find you, but there's no one. But that is, that's a wild card. Yeah. The meritocracy part That's a wild card. The meritocracy part is a fucking wild card. It's a way... You know, the thing is, is... I think I said it before,

you never know what your first thing is. And then you just have to be ready. Right? Like, you don't know what your first job's gonna be. Like, I got that stupid-ass book deal. Yeah. And through, sort of through that, you know, one way or the other, met John Glaser. Yeah. And you know what I mean? And came to people's attention.

Yeah. Yeah. And I was, I guess, I suppose, like, ready for that opportunity. So. Well, Joe Mandy, chill. Yeah. We'll be on Hulu.

What was the date again? December 13th. December 13th. So everybody tune in for that. Check jom chill. Yeah. We'll be on Hulu. What was the date again? December 13th. December 13th. So everybody tune in for that. Check joemandy.com. Sure. A lot of good merch.

Yeah. You have a lot of really good merch. I know. I am, I, another thing I, uh, uh, Excel at is making merch that somehow always, I lose money on every, every item of merch I've ever made. Yeah. Yeah, so check that out, buy merch, I'll lose money, but I do enjoy making, I think, yeah.

Again, just create stuff, don't worry about the money. I love, you were doing baseball hats that you were like hand- Hand-embroidering. Hand-em hand embroidering. Yeah, during peak COVID. Like what was one of the examples of, like where you take LA and make, you know, like LA for Dodgers.

The very first one was an LA hat that I made say lasagna. And then at a COVID checkpoint, a woman was like, that's cool. And then I was like, I guess I'll just keep doing this. Yeah. So like San Diego was like Shelley Duvall and yeah, like it was just like whatever like popped in my head. Yeah, yeah. No, but I mean, I love that craftiness.

Like that's just like, that's a, you know. It is like, that is sort of my backup plan. Is if- Funny hats. Yeah, if everything, if the bottom falls out, I know I have an Etsy store inside of me. Yeah. All right. Well, that'll be, then you can come back and plug that next time.

Well, Joe, thanks so much for coming. Yeah, this was awesome. And thank all of you out there for listening. Thank you. I'll be back next week. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Cocoa production. I'll be back next week. with assistance from Maddie Ogden, researched by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts.

And do you have a favorite question you always like to ask people? Let us know in the review section. Can't you tell my love's a-growing? Can't you feel it ain't a-showin'? Oh, you must be a knowin' I've got a big, big love