The Three Questions with Andy Richter - John Lurie

Episode Date: January 26, 2021

Musician, artist and director John Lurie joins Andy for a conversation covering Lurie's early music career, why he doesn’t consider himself an actor, the inception of his cult hit TV show, Fishing with John, struggle with Lime disease and how all of that fueled his new HBO venture, Painting with John.

Hey, everybody. It's another episode of the three questions. And it's a special one because we're talking to somebody who has been just sort of an artistic landmark for most of my life in so many different venues and media. And he's funny and smart and cantankerous and talented. And he's John Lurie. And I feel very lucky to get to talk to you, John. What was that? Cantankerous and talent. What was it? Yeah, I don't know. It just came out. But come on, wouldn't you say cantankerous is a little bit apt? Yeah.

Most of the best people are. If you don't have, if your bullshit tolerance is low, you end up being called cantankerous. Have you always been that way? Yes. Yeah. And got worse. I mean, you're supposed to get better. You're supposed to get more patient and understanding. Like, yeah. Mellow with age, as they say. I think what age does, too, is it does sort of makes you pick your battles. Well, you also I mean, you also you also pick your people. You just allow less and less and less people into your life it's just like until until it's just you in a room because you just can't stand anybody anymore oh don't tell me that uh that's you know i especially with this covid shit going on i like i mean i already was when the covid i was one of those people that

was afraid to admit that I actually was kind of enjoying it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think it's a good lesson for people. It's like, if you can't learn to be alone in a room. Were you always kind of a little bit reclusive? Like even as a kid, were you sort of? No, I was really gregarious and went out to night clubs every night, you know, but I was reclusive before that. I was a hermit before that. And then I, you know, discovered drugs and sex and nightclubs. And then I went out every night for years and then stopped, you know.

Just sick of it? No, my body fell apart at one point and I stopped. You know, my body really fell apart. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's, I mean, yeah, that's lucky for us. I guess. We still have this curmudgeon around here. No, I mean, you still are putting beauty into the world.

You know, you've had. Thank you. I actually, you know, my sister makes these earrings that are just the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And my brother's incredibly talented. And my parents, I don't believe it's in our DNA that we're talented, but they obviously instilled something, a childlike thing in the way that we work. And then my mother taught, she was a decent painter and taught art in Liverpool where the, where, you know, where the Beatles went, but not, not at the same time.

But she never taught me anything like perspective or shading, but she did somehow instill that childlike wonder thing in our work. And so you're not afraid to kind of try different things. Because I still haven't, I mean, I still don't really have a career. I haven't even decided at this age what I really do. I did do music for a while, but then I got ill and couldn't do it anymore. So now I paint and I paint all day long, like 10 hours, 12 hours a day. And it's like I create a world that I go to. I just finished one and sent it off to be scanned and it was such a drag to not be able to go to the world

that this painting had created. Now it's gone and I got to start another one. I don't want to start another one. It's wonderful to hear that you consider yourself an unfinished work because I don't think a lot of people do that. I think they get to a certain point and they're just kind of like, this is what I am. And that's it. That's such a drag. No,

people get trapped in their lives. And then, you know, and then you got a mortgage and, you know, a family and you can't get out of it. You know, did you go to college at all? No. You know, my father was like really um an academic actually and he would have wanted me to go to college but he died when i was 17 and so i didn't go to college because actually i colored in my college boards my college boards were like pharaohs chasing uh you know cows or you just drew a pattern into the little sheet. I just drew it. Yeah. It's probably worth a lot of money now.

They should have saved it. Do you think it was because of the loss of your father and because he, to you, I mean, you describe it as an academic. Do you think that that was like, you couldn't go to that space because of the loss of your dad? It was a different time,

you know, like, so I'm born in 52. So it's like 1968, you know, when I would have gone to college, 67. And it was just, you know, it was mayhem then, you know? And it was all about music, too. And so it was like, and I was playing harmonica already at like 15 or something, so. And I played with Ken Heaton, John Lee Hooker,

and I played with Mississippi Fred McDowell. And it's like, well, you know, I'm going to play music. That's what I'm going to do. So how does that happen? How does a 15-year-old kid pick up the harmonica and end up on stage with John Lee Hooker in a matter of years, a few years? We were living in Worcester. And my uncle had a place on 57th Street right next to Carnegie Hall. And Ken, he was playing there with John Lee Hooker. And so we had nowhere to

go after the concert. And we were out in the corner of 57th and 7th, and they came out, Bob Haidt, and not John Lee Hooker, but the guys in the band and i said oh hi i play harmonica and their harmonica alan wilson who was actually a genius because he's the guy who um you know going up country and you you'll know so he's really was kind of brilliant and it's a shame he died so young but he had just died and i said i play the harmonica and i'll hitchhike to wherever you're playing next to prove that I'm serious you know and it's like a different time they said okay we're playing in Philadelphia it's a spectrum tomorrow so we hitchhiked to the spectrum you and Evan me and Evan and Steve Piccolo

who was in the first lounge that's just been and um we hid in the basement of the spectrum and then around time we went up to found the dressing room. And I said, oh, you're here. And they had me play for a second. They said, good. And then they had me come up on stage for the first two songs. So I'm like 16 years old. And suddenly you're standing in front of like 20,000 people.

It was just very bizarre. Was that like a galvanizing moment for you? Or was it just sort of, did it feel like an odd one-off? No, it was just an odd thing. It was just a very odd thing. Yeah. Because then I went back to, you know, Worcester, Massachusetts and slept on people's couches again, you know. And what transitioned to saxophone for you? Nobody believes this story, but I'm going to tell you. I'm 17 and I played harmonica. I played, I tell you. I'm 17, and I played harmonica.

I was serious. I played well. And then I was in Worcester, and Michael Avery, who was a great drummer and was a friend of my sister's, they came to Worcester to play. And he was playing with Babe Pino on harmonica, and it was like these older blues guys. So I asked to sit in, but Babe Pino's a harmonica player, so this is kind of frowned on that I'm asking to sit in, but Michael's close enough to my sister where he says yes. And I don't know anything about being on stage then, but I'm playing harmonica on stage with but they didn't they gave me a mic with no

monitor you know what you know so i couldn't hear myself back but i don't know so i'm playing harder and harder and so finally i'm playing so hard it's like one one breath per note it's just like because i can't hear myself you know and i make a complete fool out of myself and they're all you know making snide comments about me afterwards. And I'm just broken. I'm just completely broken. And I'm walking around Worcester, Massachusetts at four o'clock in the morning. And I see this guy, kind of a fat black guy, a little strange, sort of walking down the street with a wheelbarrow full full of dirt and there's nobody to talk to and it's a different time and so i started talking to him and he tells me he's just seen an angel a statue turn into an angel and fly away and he tells me

in such a way like it's something you should try one day and he's fascinating he's he's a little nuts obviously but he's also kind of this something angelic about him and really thoughtful and so we're talking and then we go back to his house and his mother's asleep so i have to be quiet but he gives me a saxophone for real he gave me a saxophone and a bicycle he said just bring it back in a week and that's how i started playing the saxophone i decided i was not going to learn. Because on harmonica, I sounded too much like Little Walter. And on guitar, I sounded too much like Hendrix.

I didn't sound like them, but I was too influenced. So on saxophone, I was going to just start from scratch. I wasn't even going to get a finger chart. I wasn't going to, you know, and I would just go and blow, you know, at like three in the morning on the top of newton hill i would go and play there and then one night i'll hop on the top of this hill playing and i hear this rumbling and so i kind of it's you know pitch dark on the top of the ceiling i go and i duck back into the bushes because something's going on and it's a bunch of cops on those little you know those motorcycles the passenger seat motorcycle thing that's yeah with a sidecar. Yeah, sidecar.

And it's a bunch of cops, five cops, driving in circles yelling, Yahoo, and shooting their guns up in the air. I don't know. How did I get to that story? I don't know. I'm a great guest. I'm a great guest because you don't even have to think of the next question. You can just coast along and I'll just babble.

That is pretty good. I mean, if you want, I'll just hang up and you can just keep going. I always wonder what it's like. It's like you guys are hosting a thing on TV and this person comes on and they're so nervous and they just kind of go, you know, it must be just hell, no? Yeah, and most of the time it's kind of darling. You know, it's kind of cute when like I remember specifically Sam Neill, you know, the guy from Jurassic Park. And he was shy, terrified, terrified.

And I don't know. I don't know. He's now in New Zealand. He lives on a sheep farm. And yeah, I knew that. I don't know. I don't know. He's now in New Zealand. He lives on a sheep farm. Yeah, I knew that for some weird reason. He posts videos of like him and his duck, and they're hilarious. He also makes wine, I think, down there. But he was terrified and like looked to me in the commercial break like, God, please help me.

And I just was like, sweetheart, it's fine. It's, you know, I like to tell people when they're nervous about things, you know, Jake Gyllenhaal, I'm walking, he's talking to me and I walk him back to the curtain when he's done. And I, and he's really nervous. And he says to me, was that okay? And I said, it doesn't matter. None of it matters. It doesn't matter. None of it matters. None of it matters? None of it matters. It's just, it's all out into the air and it's all gone. And I said, I've never, as long as I've been doing this kind of stuff, I have never seen anything that makes me really believe that it puts butts into seats at a movie or sells albums, you know, like when somebody comes on at the end and plays like lounge losers did or even changes how people feel about the person it's like there's like a really big event you know like um you know like after uh what's his name he uh hugh grant was that who had

the the the divine brown ish you know he like went on the tonight show after he had he was caught Hugh Grant, was that who had the Divine Brown issue? He went on The Tonight Show after he had been... He was caught with a... Yeah, I knew he got caught with something. Yeah, a prostitute. And he went on afterwards to talk about it. And that's a huge event. But most of the time,

although the only one that does matter is books. You can sell books by going on TV. But that's because the margins are so thin on books if i see somebody go on tv like on a talk show and then and i seem really nervous i start rooting for them you know in fact next time i go on a tv show i'm gonna go out there and pretend i'm really terrified and then like rise to the occasion so everybody goes he he was able to say a word he's the headsets I'm so proud of his own little six minute Horatio Alger story all right well how do you when do you start getting brave enough to play saxophone in front of people oh you know I had a band on harmonica and stuff and like, and then I didn't play saxophone, moved to London. And I used to play on the street.

Like, you know, the buskers, it's a thing, you know, there's a lots of, you know, there's, and that's when I really started playing in front of people was out in the street. Cause it's kind of like, you know, outside of Tottenham court tube station or Piccadilly circus or, or something like that. It's kind of like playing in front of you.

And you know what I mean? It's like, and the first thing I did, I did a, a saxophone solo thing in a gallery in London. That was the first thing I did. And when you're, when you're busking,

are you playing, are you just kind of improvising or are you playing standards or? Yeah. We'd improvise. I mean, you get more money if you play Sweet Georgia Brown. You get more money like that. But I mostly was just playing the play. It didn't seem to annoy people too much.

And then I discovered this thing, especially on the weekends, the football, soccer, they'd have these, on the weekends, all the fans would come through, they've drunken, and they've just come from the game, and they're drunk. And, you know, they'd say, play our team song, and they'd be, you know, and so I started pulling this thing where I would have them stand behind my case. And then all the other fans would come and start throwing money into my case because they're you know and then till the other team's fans came by and a fist fight would start and I grabbed my case and moved to the next corner that worked

I got more money like that than than any other way was like and then one night I got arrested where and they're so polite you know the policeman comes up to you and says you have to not play tonight we're going to round up all the buskers if you're playing here in an hour and I didn't believe him because they were so polite you know compared to like New York cops it was and then they came and they politely arrested me and I was arrested with four one-arm one-arm one-man bands you know the guys with the drum on the back and the guitar and the harmonica and the cymbals between the knees. Yeah, like Dick Van Dyke from Mary Poppins. I never saw Mary Poppins. Oh, he does a whole, he's got like 18 instruments on him.

Like, it's impossible. Like, he couldn't really be playing all of them. But, you know, like that. But these guys could all do that you know and then a couple other guys you know and they arrested all of us and put us all in a cell for the night and i thought there was going to be like this camaraderie of like okay we're all street musicians but they all hated each other and they all hated me even worse because i was a yank. So they, it was, I thought, you know, we were all going to get along and yeah. And, and, um, they all just complained the whole night.

When you, when you're, what, What age are you when you're in London? 20, 21, 20. Yeah. 20? No, a little older. 22, maybe. Are you thinking of the future? Like, are you worrying about, like,

I got to figure out what I'm going to do with myself? Or is it just because of the time and your age? I almost never. I mean, it's a much harder time for kids now where they got to decide the whole rest of their life. But I was even, I mean, it's a much harder time for kids now where they got to decide the whole rest of their life. But but I was even I mean, because my dad died and because I was already kind of pretty wild. I mean, I hitchhiked cross country with, you know, ten dollars in my pocket. And that's before I played the saxophone. And then, you know, I went to London with no money.

And is your mom worried by this? No, my mom was weird. What happened? My dad died when I was 17. And me and Evan were pretty wild. And we'd go home, you know, for a couple of days to eat and stuff. But we're not old. And then she sort of, and we sort of, you know, we're pretending we're independent.

We don't need her. And she's pretending she's independent and doesn't need us. And then she called our bluff and she moved. She's from Wales. And she moved back to us. And then she called our bluff and she moved. She's from Wales. And she moved back to Wales when me and Evan were like 16 and 17. We had nowhere to go. Whoa, shit. Now, when you were in London, did you see her?

Yeah, I go to Wales. I mean, Evan talked me into coming over. He was living in a squat and he made it sound so glamorous. And so, okay. So it was terrible. And we've got to, you know, visit my mom, eat some food, you know, and then, you know, take the train back to London, start playing on the street again. And dance classes. I used to play dance classes too.

You know, step brush land, step brush land, step brush land. You mean you would accompany the dance class? Oh, too. You know, step brush land, step brush land, step brush land. You mean you would accompany the dance class? Oh, okay. I didn't know if you were saying you were a dancer, too. Now, that would be terrible. I'm saving that for the later part. My dance career will be later. Yeah, that'll be your real renaissance when you come back as the new Martha Graham.

Yeah, really. When you come back as the new Martha Graham. Yeah. Well, how do you go from London to New York? Is that sort of, you know? Yeah. And this is early 70s, right? Let's see.

I went to London. Oh, and then back to Boston. And then back to London. And then to New York. And then my horn got stolen. So then I moved back to Boston for a while. Wow. Was it the same horn that you had gotten from the guy on the street? No, no, I gave that back after a week.

Then I sold, I had a really nice guitar, and a really nice Les Paul, and then I sold that and bought a saxophone, a good saxophone with that. And then moved, I was living on 14th Street, and I was working at the plaza hotel and um doing what i was the night housekeeping dispatcher okay so like if milton burl wanted extra pillows i would send somebody down there but there was really nothing to do so i would just practice for his

enormous cock i keep hearing i've heard more about willem. Willem, see, Willem has an enormous cocktail. He does. Yeah, that is, yeah. In that movie where he played Jesus. Yeah. It's in the movie? Yeah. We were walking around in Morocco looking for trouble,

and we go to take a piss in an alley, and I was just like, what the fuck is that? Yeah. What do you do with, is there enough blood to fill that thing up? Yeah, don't you get dizzy? He does get dizzy. Yeah, no,

I've had a few friends like that and the, you know, and it's like their little secret and then you see it and it's like, although I've had other friends too, who it's not a secret, it's, it gets mentioned and it becomes their thing. Like,

Oh, you want to see it? Here you go. Um, can't do that anymore either. No, you can't. Willem used to say, I think it gives me a false sense of confidence.

Yeah, because he's not like a large person either. No, he's not very tall. God, he's been good in the last few years. He's fantastic. He's always great. I don't know if he was always fantastic, but in the last few years, it's like the range has been kind of remarkable. Yeah. Well, now now speaking of acting are you is it in your head all this time you know throughout your life that at some point you're going to be an actor no no i'm still i never was an actor

well i know i just showed up and i did these things but you know i mean look with music and with painting i got some chops i mean i work on it you know with acting you know i I mean, with music and with painting, I got some chops. I mean, I work on it, you know, with acting, you know, I can be good. I got a natural thing, but I never I never paid my dues with it. I never I never had any technique. And, you know, like when I was on that show, Oz for a little while, it was awful. I really didn't know what I was doing, you know. Plus, I've got advanced lung disease and it was the beginning of that

and I didn't know what was wrong with me. I'd have four lines and I couldn't remember them. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was really scary. Yeah, because that's, when you can't remember your lines that, you know, I mean, it's a cush job. You know, acting,

anybody that talks about acting being hard, I always feel like, please take it easy. No, but if you get nervous, I mean, if you make it hard, then you're not good. But the best actor, I mean, if you get nervous, then it's really, you know, then it's terrible, you know? Yeah, yeah. But like in Last Temptation, the best actors were the Moroccan extras

who had no idea what was going on. They were great, you know. And all these people like, especially like there was a lot of people on the cast who weren't really actors. They were more musicians that Marty had brought in. And they would put so much effort into like trying to be a good actor. And it just, it just ruins it, you know. Yeah. Well, I think acting is something you can either do it or not do it.

And to me, like, I don't, because I don't really have, you know, I came up from improv, which is just make it up as you go along, which you can do. You know, you can do that your whole career. You just basically are waiting for things to approach you. And then it's just a question of decisions or problem solving, you know, you get a job and can, okay, I'll take the job. And then you get there and you're like, well, I got to figure out a way. And, you know, and I've always just felt like they keep paying me to do this. So I guess I'm doing a good job, you know, I mean, cause I never, cause the notion of like, did I do well on that? I, I, I, I rely perhaps maybe too much on other people's input on it, but I do feel

like, well, it's a communication thing. And if I'm communicating it well, people will let me know that. And if I'm not, they'll let me know that too, because I guess guess i just my own barometer of what i'm doing is too unreliable it never paid off for me i mean with music you know we finished the show and i know it was great and the audience was or you know people burst into the dressing room said that was amazing and you know it wasn't good yeah i know when it's good and that's it's between me and the thing and the same with paintings but with acting I would never know was I any good I don't know and who decides and

I was never that comfortable with it you know I mean Jack Nicholson I think why he's so great he's so comfortable with it and he also seems to not care that's what makes him so great I think if you really don't care, you kind of go, you go further in a way. Yeah, I think so. It is. It's an attitude and it is, but it also, and I've gotten in trouble

with actors when I say this, but like, to me, acting is lying. You know, you're trying to convince somebody of something that you're not. And it's the same way that when you would lie to your mother about something, you would learn to regulate your delivery. You would learn what details to add. You would learn, you know, like how to gesture to be believable that you hadn't wrecked the car or whatever. And it's the same thing. And then people are like, no, no, it's the search for truth. Like, no, it's not the search for truth because Willem Dafoe is not Jesus. You know, it's he's he's making trying to trying to trick you into thinking, you know,

but then you see someone like Meryl Streep and sometimes she's so good that she ruins she ruins the movie. You know? Because you're just like, damn. Yeah, you're just thinking about Meryl Streep. Yeah, she takes you out of the experience of watching the thing because she's so good. Well, let's back up because we sort of jumped right over Lounge Lizards. Did you have a real strong idea what you wanted to do with the band?

No. I mean, the band started, I was playing and I had this idea because I was very influenced with classical music, but also like music from like the Pygmies in Tibet and then jazz. And I wanted to figure out a way to make it all work together. And I kind of began to think I was never going to actually have that, that I could never quite get there. Or maybe that wasn't even possible to do that, where it's kind of like the melody, the rhythm was more African or funk, and then the melodies were more like classical. And I thought maybe it's not possible

to do what you're talking about with other people because I was just playing solo and that kind of worked. And then I didn't have a band. And I had written this music. I wanted to do this movie. I was writing this movie, Fatty Walks. And so I started writing the music for it. And Jim Farad asked what a good band to open for Peter Gordon's Love of Life Orchestra on a Monday night at Haraz.

And I said, oh, my band. But I didn't have a band. See, that's what I'm saying. You fake it till you make it. Let's not promote lying to the kids. This podcast is for old men. And then we used the music

I was writing, using, going to use for the movie and threw this thing together and I got lucky with who it was. It was Anton Fier who was a really good drummer and he also kind of, you know, we were such punks and I was serious about the saxophone playing but not about the band.

My brother, he played Farfisa organ on the first, and Ardo Lindsay on guitar, and Piccolo on bass. And it was a good combination of people. And it just came together on stage. We had one rehearsal, and then suddenly we were stars. Oh, wow. How long was it from that first show until you feel like all of New York is talking about us? Well, right away, all of New York was talking about us. Really? Wow.

And then right away, they stopped. As the music got better, New York stopped talking about us. Because we were kind of, you know, we were doing these kind of, like, stripper tunes, you know, but, like, with Ardo going, you know, like that kind of stuff. So Andy Warhol would be there, and, you know but like with arto on you know you know like that kind of stuff so andy warhol would be there and you know it was like that in the first month and then as the music got better and less kind of campy they all start they all stopped coming so it was a couple year period as the

music got better so finally there was like nine people would come to the show because the music got better yeah now but i mean the fan the the band did grow to where it had a world audience and and you know and so that that change tell me about that change do you think, were you enjoying it at the time, or were you hesitant to step into the mouth of this beast? No, because it was slow. I mean, you know, we started this kind of punk jazz band, and then, you know, and we put out a record,

and it was a really miserable experience with the record company, and they just would put us in these horrible situations and and then it fell apart and i started another band with tony garnier and evan and it was kind of getting to be more like of a jazz band but we weren't that good at playing jazz at that time so then that sort of and then i started this other much bigger band like by 84, 85. And the music started, the writing started getting better, the playing started. It started to really become something around then. And by that time, we had a fan base in Japan and in Europe, but not in the States.

We never really took off in the States. So we would go, and that's how I made a living for years, was we would go tour two or three times a year in Japan or in Europe. And that was a blast. I mean, especially as it gets better, I mean, you know, and it sort of hovers off the ground and you're playing. Oh, that's just great, you know. But this whole, you know, recording and, you know know there'd always be like one day to make a record and we'd never really get it right and in the record company would be screwing you

and all that that was all horrible but the live gigs that's just just better than anything really and are you painting no just a little bit like you know i mean i painted always because you did some you did some album covers, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I would always paint, but never like, you know. I mean, now I paint 10, 12 hours a day. I mean, I can't stop myself almost. But then, you know, the thing I would do every day was practice. You've got to practice two hours a day.

I would do that. The TV show, Fishing with John, is funny and uncomfortable. And, you know, like, and you could feel the tension. You're like, first of all, you fished your whole life, right? Yeah, well, I used to go fishing with my dad. Yeah. I mean, me and Willem had actually been fishing a bunch of times. And me and Flea used to go fishing.

Yeah. That's one thing I am mad about. I love to fish. I'm going fishing with my friends. People will be like, oh, like Fishing with John. I'll be like, oh, shit, yeah. Like fishing with John. Exactly like fishing with John.

Well, now you can't go get a cup of coffee in a car. That's right. Without somebody thinking you ripped them off. Yeah, I know. But I got lucky with the fishing show. I got really lucky where I'd gone fishing with Willem, and Liz Komp filmed it because she was in the boat with us. And then I went to play on New Year's Eve with Tom Waits, I'd gone fishing with Willem and Liz Komp filmed it because she was in the boat with us.

And then I went to play on New Year's Eve with Tom Waits. And then we went fishing the next day and Torton filmed it. And so I had these tapes at home, like home movies, really. And somebody brought them to this Japanese company and she came back and said, they want to make a show. And I was like, really? So I was like, oh, they're going to give me money. And then I had to do it. And we also had this editor who hated it.

So I was like, what is this? The editor hated the show? The editor, she just like grimaced. But now it's like, it's on the top of her reel. There's like the things she worked on, but she really hated it. Can't you tell my love's a-growing? Do you mind if we talk a little bit about your Lyme disease? No.

Because I, you know, it's... But who wants to listen to that? But I don't mind talking about it. because I, you know, it's... But who wants to listen to that? But I don't mind talking about it. Well, because you are an artist that is loved by a lot of people and it's affected your work.

It's affected the trajectory of your life. It's certainly affected the trajectory of your music career. You know, I had to quit playing saxophone. I couldn't do it anymore. And what would happen were you just in pain you know because i mean there's so many it was it was just so i think it has something to do with the vagal nerve so you play because i can play guitar

and harmonica now but i the saxophone somehow the way the diaphragm presses against the vagal and it would just set off like you know migraine aura and i mean the symptoms you can explain are nothing compared to the ones you can't explain now as with many people that suffer from lyme disease you spend a lot of time not knowing what the fuck is wrong with you and when do you come like is there a point where you like does somebody say did you ever get bitten by a tick you know or or whatever that you have to no i mean what i went through it was like 2000 2001 and i really thought i was dying and you get to the point where you modify your symptoms when you go into the doctor because it just sounds too nuts you know it's like well on friday my feet went numb

and i couldn't use my left arm and then on Saturday, everything looked like it was made out of static electricity. And then on Sunday, it felt like I was being stung by bees all over my body. I mean, it's just like, you know how nuts that sounds. So you just, after a while, I went to the Mayo Clinic because I would have these full-on attacks. And I thought I wanted to get monitored while i was having one of those attacks but the male clinically well if you're having attack go to the local emergency room where they yeah yeah so i gave up i mean i was realistic and i thought this is it i don't know what it is and you know i had you know it was ms it was a rare form of migraines it was on and on i mean i had

every diagnosis but none of them were really right. And actually, the closest thing to what was wrong with me was if you put all my symptoms into a, you know, and you look them up, I had Gulf War syndrome. That was the closest thing to what I had. And I gave up. I thought, OK, I'll buy a house up here and, you know, grow old and die because I can't do anything anymore. I got a magazine with real estate, you know, and in the front of this real estate thing was, do you have this, this, this, this? And it was like 100 symptoms and I had all of them. And it's like, yes, well, you may have advanced Lyme disease because it wasn't really a thing yet.

And it took like five years before I was 100% certain it was advanced Lyme disease. And I think there's a real similarity, I mean, between like these post-COVID cases. Those symptoms sound very similar to the stuff. I think it might just be the immune system. You know, this thing invades your body and your immune system fights it off, but it's such a huge event that the immune system keeps fighting it. And then it starts attacking things in your own body that's my that's my theory so what's um what's your future look like you got any plans what are you having for dinner well it's hard to figure out because because of the virus and the vaccine and what's going to happen next plus i'm worried you know when's this going to run probably next week i bet

it come out on Tuesday. So it'll either be next Tuesday or maybe the Tuesday after. So it's either before the coup or after the coup? It'll be, yeah, exactly. It'll be right before the coup. It'll be pre-coup. Because if there really is a coup, I feel like, you know, HBO is going to cancel my show and they're going to be forced to play Duck Dynasty around the clock. There won't be a coup.

I'm a conspiracy theorist. I love all that shit. I just, I mean, and this could just be me being Pollyanna-ish, but I kind of feel like they, you know, like, A, there's no future to what they're talking about. Like, there's no future to it if, like, you can't say black votes don't matter, you know? I mean, they already feel, you know, that black lives don't matter, but you can't do that. That just isn't sustainable. No, it's not sustainable.

I mean, this whole thing, it comes from two things. One comes from racism, and then it comes from Trump's narcissism, which is an unbelievable force. I mean, I've never seen anything quite like his narcissism. Which, that doesn't matter, that there's no conceivable future for this, because he doesn't know anything besides one second in front of, you know what I mean? It's just like. Yeah, yeah. No. You know what I mean?

It's just like... Yeah, yeah. So... No. Somebody said, for him, the world is the arc between... And I think maybe it was borrowed from somebody else. The arc between his fingers and his mouth. Yeah. That's where the world exists.

Yeah. But then they're listening to him. I don't know. I mean... Did you ever cross paths with him back in the day? Yeah, I was... This is probably my greatest work. When Balthazar opened.

Yeah. It's like a bistro, a big, beautiful bistro. And he was there with a friend of mine's wife. They'd just gotten divorced, and she was quite beautiful, like a model. And he was there with her on a date, and he was sort of parading her around the restaurant to show her off as, you asshole. So then he was sitting there.

And so I had the waiter bring him a glass of their cheapest rosé, which he refused. And I bumped into him a couple of times way back, you know, always with. I don't see how you can see a mile away that this guy's an asshole. Why? How did he get their support? That's what I I'll never understand.

Every fuck. And it's all you know, and the thing, too, is it's like white men voted for him, like 74% of white men voted for him. But that's what this is more. I mean, this is like white men being afraid of their privilege taken away seems to be what's driving most of this. Also, he hates the same thing they hate, which seems to be the biggest force behind it. He hates Hillary Clinton. We hate Hillary. You know, he hates smart people. We hate smart people.

I mean, did you see the thing with they were walking out of the White House like he's packing up and leaving, right? They're walking out with the Lincoln bust and things like that. They were looting the White House. And there was a uniformed soldier holding the door open for him. I saw somebody bringing out a stuffed pheasant, like a taxidermied pheasant. This is how white people loot. I mean, Jesus. Yeah.

And I think they were putting it into a Volvo, if I'm not mistaken. Into a, really? All right. Well, we're coming. I want to wrap it up here. I've kept you long enough. I want to keep talking. Oh, you do?

Well, then we can keep talking. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. All right. All right. I was flattered there for a talking. Oh, you do? Well, then we can keep talking. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. All right. All right. I was flattered there for a second. No, you couldn't be flattered.

This was fun. Oh, okay. Good. It was, and it has been fun. And I enjoy, you know, that's what, and I've said this before, especially with COVID, like sometimes the, just doing these podcasts, it's a chance to talk to somebody, you know, it's a chance to have a conversation but i uh just to kind of wrap it up i wonder like is there uh you know the because the three questions is a gimmick

here and the last one is what have you learned and so i guess like if you've learned is there something you would have done differently is there something that you think back and think that was a mistake i did an article with a new yorker that really fucked up my life terribly because i trusted them that really fucked up my life and uh but i'm not sorry i did it because i'm still proving that i'm not the person in that article i probably wouldn't have done this show if it wasn't you know it's like you know the story about charlie parker philly joe jonesilly Jones throws the symbol at Charlie Parker when he's just starting out and he's so embarrassed that he goes and he woodsheds for a year

and he just practices and comes back with this. Every terrible thing that happened to me, I got something, a ton out of it. You know? So I don't think I, you know, I would redo. I mean mean you know you get stronger your soul gets cleaner you just keep

cleaning the mirror I can't imagine yeah I went through a bad period but now it just seems like it's a good period it's just sort of oh god

me and me and Nezma we turn on the TV and the guide for... The channel guide. Yeah. Yeah. It was a painting with John. And it was like, Nezrin started to cry.

And I said, oh, my God, what have I done? But it was kind of like, wow. Yeah. I mean, I made this thing, you know, in my pajamas in my house for a dollar and now it's going to be on HBO it's kind of you know yeah well you mentioned in the show you mentioned about seeing your

your face on on the side of a building on a marquee or something yeah and that's I I've been through this I remember when we would do the Conan show in the early days you know, we would do the show and then I'd go home and I would live my life and stuff. But if I was out, say, at a bar or a restaurant when the show was on and above the TV, the bar would put on the show and I'd see myself above the bar. It would freak me out. Like I would just be like, what the fuck am I doing up there? And I had been making a TV show, but somehow it was like, I don't know, I thought it was like on a closed circuit to my mom's house or something.

Like, I wasn't really conceiving of how it was going everywhere. And, you know, and people, you know, there are some people who just want to be famous and then often doesn't make your life better. It makes it worse. It's it can be uncomfortable. You know, it's it's a there is just want to be famous, da-da-da-da, and then often doesn't make your life better. It makes it worse. It can be uncomfortable, you know. There is a price to it. Yeah. There is a price to it. And you can have some effect on regulating the price that it is because you can, which I think the big thing from my experience is protecting the self of yourself that isn't public property

because so many people serve up everything here it is here's me let me just pull out all the drawers and you ransack it and use whatever you want and he and i you know i worry about like friends of mine that sort of have a public persona with their spouse you know like yeah it's scary to me because yeah it's just like at what point does your marriage become a product as opposed to you know a core of who you are existentially i mean really if i could just make these paintings anonymously you know and might it might be i mean the paintings and the music are what i really care about you know i mean and i can i can i can tell a funny story and so that works but well do you have what do you when people ask you like advice what do you you know do you have advice for what kind of advice well you tell me like it doesn't whether

it's work advice or life advice like like what do you find useful? I try to be in the moment. I try to generate as much love as possible. And everything else follows from there, really. I try to live in the moment and try to generate love. You know, that sounds corny, but I really do do that. Don't tell anybody. Too late. Too late.

Too late. Well, John, that's a beautiful place to leave this. All right. So thank you for coming on the podcast, John. I really appreciate it. And good luck. And let's not end it. And everybody, watch Painting with John.

It's just such a beautiful escape from yourself. And it really shows there's a lot of warmth in it. It's a very warm, it makes you feel good. Yeah. Who would think I would do a relaxing feel-good show, but I guess I did, you know.

Nice to see you again. I'll see you in 20 years, I guess. All right. All right, everyone. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time on The Three Questions. Thanks for tuning in. And we'll see you next time on The Three Questions. Thanks for having me, Andy.

I've got a big, big love for you. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Earwolf production. It's produced by me, Kevin Bartelt, executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, associate produced by Jen Samples and Galit Sahayek, and engineered by Will Becton. And if you haven't already, make sure to rate

and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.