The Three Questions with Andy Richter - John Michael Higgins

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

Actor, comedian, and television personality John Michael Higgins joins Andy Richter to discuss performing in the legendary mockumentaries of Christopher Guest, how improv changes as you get older, his extensive game show experience, and more. Do you want to talk to Andy live on SiriusXM’s Conan O’Brien Radio? Tell us your favorite dinner party story (about anything!) or ask a question - leave a voicemail at 855-266-2604 or fill out our Google Form at BIT.LY/CALLANDYRICHTER. Listen to "The Andy Richter Call-In Show" every Wednesday at 1pm Pacific on SiriusXM's Conan O'Brien Channel. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the three questions. I'm your host, Andy Richter, and today I'm talking with an actor and comedian that I really love John Michael Higgins. He's had so many hilarious roles over the years across film and television from the Christopher guest movies to the pitch perfect franchise to arrested development and so much more. He's currently hosting the game show America says on the game show network and a new season premieres April 13th. So let's get to it. Here's my conversation with John Michael Higgins. Thank you. Thank you for having. Come on and in. I was, you know, last time I saw you, we were up in Sketchfast. Oh, yeah, yeah. You did the set for that. I work out with that group every now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which one was that? This was like, it was called, what do they call it, theme park? So it's Cole who runs Sketchfast. Yes, okay, I remember now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Barney.

Yeah. And then who was in the group was Ian Brennan. And you did the monologue. You were the guest. Yeah. The monologue. And then who's it? Hitchcock is in it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me. I remember, I can picture the back. It was art in here. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Who cares? Anyway, you were fantastic.

Oh, thank you. I've always been, we won't do this on the podcast. But I just, Maybe I should. Well, we're recording. So, yeah, I just let it roll. Oh, okay, that's fine. Well, thank you so much.

Yeah, that way, I did a lot of sketch vests. I did the monologues and I do those now. I don't do improv scene work really anymore very much because it, I have all kinds of things to say. But one of them is like, I want to hear those things. Because I'm having trouble myself. Why? I came to a point where like, why am I going to leave the house to go get nervous? You know, because it is still something.

I do a lot of things. And I mean, I've had, I now blab for a living. So blabbing and just talking like, yeah, and it's fun. And I like it. But scene work and the stuff that I used to do when I was in my 20s, that's like, I just feel like, A, the brain is sludgy compared to what it used to be. It's really not. It's unbelievable. It doesn't move as quickly. Yeah. And I just am like, yeah, I'll tell the monologues, but to do scene work. And I have, I have, it has been tested because like I did, once there was a UCB, a benefit show, kind of a big benefit show,

because some of the, like Amy Poehler had come back to do it. And there were, then there were sort of like, you know, people above just sort of their normal sort of like. Friday night crew that were in to do this big event. And I did not understand that I would be doing scene work. And I didn't, did not, I was not sort of disabused of the notion that I was not going to be doing scene work until literally 15 seconds before we went on stage. And so I had to do it. And it was a long set. It was, I think because it was sort of special. It went like two hours. And when we got done with it, I didn't do, I was driving home. I, I was driving home. I thought, okay, I didn't do spectacularly. I did not embarrass myself. I said some good stuff.

I made some good plays. It was fun. It didn't make me feel like I got to get back there and do that again. Yeah, I had that. I could have told that story. It's very similar. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if it's an age thing. Maybe there's some sort of, which I wasn't expecting, like my bar raised. Like, I wasn't as satisfied with like the crap that was coming out of my mouth in scene work that I didn't care about. Yeah. But now I'm like, that should have been better. Yeah. Which is dumb.

That's a rookie mistake. You know, when Hitchcock goes out there, he's totally fearless. Yes. And age, maybe it works for everyone differently, but sometimes age doesn't free you from previous neuroses. It engenders new ones. Yes. And I think.

I mean, it is on you to, to, to figure that out. You know, I mean, as I mean, when I say you, I mean one, it's on one to, you know, like if you do start to, because I certainly, if I start to feel the old ones coming back, I'm like, get the fuck out of here. I know. I know. What are you doing here?

You know. I felt that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's where I was coming to. And I, I just felt like, you know, I felt a little guilty. I felt like I was laying off the fearlessness on my colleagues. Like, I'll let them be fearless.

And I'll follow up with a good punchline or something. It's just not doing the work. Yeah. It's not good work. Yeah. And I lost patience with myself. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. I think for me, I just sort of, I really do feel like I'm, I'm not, like, who am I here for? Am I here for this audience? I don't know those people. Yeah. You know, I don't, I mean, it's lovely that they came here and I appreciate that, that they're supporting this particular art form that has been so meaningful and impactful to me. But I'm not there for that.

I'm not there because I, you know, and I also, I've never been one to like, oh, those laughs. They're like jet fuel to me. I'm like, yeah, it's okay. I like people laughing at me. So am I there for the other people? I mean, I'd rather go have drinks with them. Exactly. And then am I, so am I there for me, it better be fun for me, for me to,

go do this thing. And I think improv used to be to the most, when improv was the most seductive to me, when shit would come out of my mouth, that was good. Yeah. And I would be like, where the, I did not think of that,

that just came out. How did that happen? Where's that well? I throw the bucket down that well next time, you know, but I couldn't find the well. And I know. You know, it just happened.

Well, that's the thing too is you've got to keep, It's like you can't go back to the gym after not being there for 10 years and lift as much weight as you used to lift. You know, the muscles are at your feet. Well, it's true. Yeah, yeah. It's true. And strangely, fearlessness is a kind of muscle. Yeah.

Which would be hard to describe to a civilian. But, you know, it's like. It is. So many things are just practice. Yeah. Yeah. Just doing it a lot so that it doesn't matter as much anymore. I think that's right.

And I think you're totally right when I'm out there in an improv set. And I wonder who they are watching me. They say, oh, that's the guy best in show or something. But I'm not doing best in show. Right. So why me? Yeah, yeah. It's like, I'm not going to do that.

You've already seen that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just, it's just a big question for me. And so many people, so many improv audiences still today are like, so you guys just made that. Like they still don't fully understand. No, they don't. I mean, and I always said, I always said, too, I used to have, in fact, I remember speaking

of Amy Puller, I think I was on a panel with her once for Toyota Comedy Festival or something talking about improv. And I said something about, you know, live improv, everywhere that it's performed, I think it inherently apologizes for itself. there's a deal struck with the audience before they come in. We're making this shit up right off the top of our head. So you cannot expect this to be Saturday Night Live. You cannot expect like all the dovetailed corners to meet up perfectly.

It's going to be a little sloppy. There's going to be some lulls because we're just making this shit up. And she was like, no, it doesn't apologize. I'm like, well, okay, whatever. But I was like, but that the audience there, you do not. need, you can't go to, you know, the comedy store with an improvise. They expect material that's been worked on. They're there for the joke. I pay you give joke. I laugh. Yeah. And if you got a line in the middle of a joke, which is a six and the rest of the joke is an eight, then you cut it.

Yeah. And unless you cut it, the audience notices it and says, this isn't as funny as SNL, because they cut all their sixes. Absolutely. And you know, and you're trying to ask the audience to laugh on a six? Yeah. Well, they're not laughing. A six is a six. A six is a six.

And the audience may, because they got out of the house and they dressed up and put lipstick on or something, they may try to laugh at the six, which is even more depressing. But if they are a patient audience that's there to watch creation and there to watch spontaneity, that six seems like a nine. It's true. Yeah. No, that's a good point. Yeah, yeah.

It has to do with the scale. It's like he pulled off a six in the middle of this shit storm. Right. And there it was. And, and, but it's, it is a contract. It is a contract with the audience that I, I agree with you. I don't think the audience knows what they're signing. Yeah.

But they do, I think they do have some understanding that you're making it up. And I, and I, there is a beauty to that. Yeah. But I also think it's got to be viewed live. It doesn't work on TV because the remote is the enemy of lulls, and there's going to be lulls in improv. And I've, you know, throughout my early career, it was like, we got to get improv on TV. And it's like, I always had this feeling of it, I don't think it, because you've got to be patient. You know, an improv audience, to wait for greatness, it takes patience.

There's no, I've never, the greatest improv shows I've ever done, it hasn't been wall to wall, you know. You've got to watch people figuring out what's happening. And people don't have time for that when they're sitting in there. You know, they push one button and there's, you know, naked and afraid right next door. Yeah, totally. And I think I don't want to get into old foggyism, but the... Why not? You're in a comfortable place.

Yeah. It's a safe harbor of old foggism here. I just, the sort of swipe left, idea is it left or right when you don't like it? Left. The swipe left culture, which has won. It won. Yes.

Absolutely. We lost. Yeah. And it is not, the swipe left culture is not the friend of art and creation. It is because that is a, this is all so boring now, process as opposed to a result, right? And no one wants process anymore. under a certain age. I don't know what the 840.

I don't know what it is. But process is out. Yeah. When they look at the phone, it's 100% products. Yeah. It's 100% punchlines. It's 100% the end of something. Yes.

As opposed to we're going to slowly open the door and take a little walk and go to the village. And, you know what I mean? Right. A process in which you finally find the five-footed horse or whatever. You know, whatever the end is. Yeah, yeah. And they don't do that. Yeah.

And they don't want to. And maybe they shouldn't want to. This is the other question. As I get older, it's like, does it matter that process is gone? Yeah. Well, you can't do. I mean, I still think, I still think process, there's a, there are people and even young people that are fighting for process. And you see it in AI. You see it in the fight against AI. Yeah. And there are there. I mean, I don't know. I'm not taking a census on it. But it does seem to be like there's a lot of people that are. There seems to be more people who are saying like, fuck this AI stuff than there are people who are going like this ACE AI stuff is amazing. I can just, you know, I can just get music that has no human contact. Isn't that great? Yeah, isn't that great?

And I think that it all, I mean, I don't think I'm not a big conspiracy theorist, but it does kind of all kind of blend in where when you do, you take out process is, what AI is doing. And AI is driven by people who can start a company, can write code, can do all these things. But they can't create a song. And they can't create a joke. And they want, I mean, Elon Musk, most of the trouble with that guy is because he wants to fucking be funny. Yeah. And he's not. And so he's taking it out on the world. So these guys don't know how to be funny. So they're like, you know what? Process doesn't matter. Creation. A machine can do it just as well. It's an aggregate of all the other things that have been,

and isn't that what people do anyway? No, that's not what people do. That is not what they do. And so it all kind of lines up perfectly in for the tech billionaire takeover of everything. It's going great. Yeah, it's going great. But yeah, but it is like I do think that there's so much content. There's so much I can do that.

You know, like as a talk show sidekick, actor, game show hosts, all the different, you know, irons that you put into fires were similar in that way. You know, here I am. I've been interviewing people on an hour interview thing, which at a time, that was like a marketable thing on television. Sure. Now everybody does it.

So it's like this, even this process has been sort of just spread. It just all is spread. And the creation of content is also spread. And it all does just go down to like, again, I don't think, think there's some evil genius point you know figuring

it out but it certainly does lend itself to let the let the machines take over yeah you know let yeah it lets it lets the machines in because like you said like the creative process is now like something spilled on a table which just sort of

drips off yeah there's too much of it and it has no container yeah and although you're right this particular format that you were and I engaged in right now has a kind of has a kind of feel in which there's process like there are sixes that we're going to be doing yes and there's a couple of eights you know what i mean so that you so that there is there's something a lie i think that's why podcasts have been working yes because

they're a little bit alive yes and and i think that the look the medium of film has for me has I'm not that attracted. I was a stage act. Yes. And I was never really attracted to film and television. And the reason I wasn't so much as a product is that it was too facile. It was too manipulable. In other words, they could show you exactly what they wanted to show you and nothing else.

Yes. And I didn't like that. I thought that people should see the other stuff as well if you can contain it and make it work for story. Right. If it doesn't work for story, it should go away. Yeah. But sometimes it does. Yeah.

And I have sort of just lost patience with the sort of highly controlled, processless finished products, which is what we're being fed. And I think you're right. The uncreated people, the tech billionaires and the other side of the aisle or whatever, they want to be in the club. They want to be in the club of people who are cool and funny. You can make jokes. They can't make jokes because they have nothing to break.

They've already broken it. Jokes are made out of surprise and people breaking things. They can't have any of those. They don't like surprises. And they can't, they've already broken. It's a game of chicken, but the airbags have already been deployed. Right, right, right. And now they're going to make a scene out of it, you know?

Yeah. I just think that it's in a bad, place now, but maybe you're right. I have noticed in the zeitgeist that people pushing back on AI. Yeah. And maybe it's just as simple as they know it's, it's the uncanny valley. Yes. They know it, they know it's not like people. Yes. And it's not. And so it doesn't ring in them. It doesn't make their molecules move. Can't you tell my loves it grows. I don't think it's going to, I mean, there's going to be some form of it. And I mean, and certainly it's, useful in, you know, data crunching, you know, for like diagnostic purposes.

Clerical purposes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great for science and medicine probably because they can run hundreds of combinations where we couldn't before. Yeah, they, you know, like somebody said, I heard somebody talk about like how the profession of being a radiologist, which is just sort of looking at many, many x-rays and knowing what they say and then having the experience to look at an x-ray and go, this is what's going on. Whereas the machine can do that times a million.

Yeah, times a million. And so there are some areas where, yeah, it's going to work. But I also do think, A, it's being pumped up too much and you already see companies going under. Yeah. And it's going to shit the bed. Yeah. It's going to kind of just collapse under its own weight and people are just going to go back to, well, I guess we're just going to have to have people right things. Yeah.

What a bummer. Yeah, what a bummer. Although there are, I just saw something online this morning, like some, some young woman who is what they call an Americana artist now. Yeah. Like sings folk songs and country songs on banjo. Some, somebody did an AI version of all her stuff, absorbed all her stuff, did an AI version, put it on the internet through some sort of company that markets online AI stuff. Yeah. That company has made copyright claims on her.

Oh, my God. Because it is not, it's been the, the sort of conduit through which the ripoff has been channeling. And they're like, okay, well, this is now ours. And she's, you know, all her stuff's on YouTube and YouTube won't fight it. So, because YouTube is just like, hey, we're, we're Switzerland. Oh, yeah. We're just a platform.

Yeah, yeah. We have, absolutely. We have, there's nobody home here. We can't, yeah. So she's got to fight it herself. And I mean, I'm sure that this is probably, you know, against them. But I mean, just what makes, that always just makes me think. And I do want to go back to what you said because there are two things I want to talk about.

But it does make me think, how do you fucking do that for a living? How do you think I'm going to have a company that compiles AI music and then I'm going to fuck over people that really make music? and I'm going to steal their shit. Jesus. It's because you can't make it yourself. And you're so fucked up about it. You're just like you want in and this is the way in.

I'm going to make his music for him again. And then I'm going to sue him. Yeah. It's like it's perfect. It's exactly where it's all going. And music is a really terrible one. I know many musicians. And they're just like,

It's really bad. Yeah. Because I know people who score television shows and stuff like that. Yeah. That's something the AI does pretty well. Yeah. Strangely, AI, I was reading this thing. AI does therapy well.

Did you hear this? No. Yeah. Uh-oh. When you're trying to. Sorry, Dr. Axelrod. Yeah. I know.

Because the, because the psych bot 320. Yeah. Could you turn that thing up? Yeah. So apparently when you're being trained as a therapist, there's a moment, you know, when you're, you're trying to, you're being trained to sort of pull back a little bit so that you're not too in their pants. And you have to ask colder questions. You have to just listen to what they actually say is what you want them to be saying. Things, computer does well. Yeah. And so, but now with, because it, it apes therapy so well, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, obviously the horse that got out of a barn and now it's,

now we're fucked. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I heard a coder online saying that like, AI isn't right. What it does is it combs through all of this information very, very quickly, and then gives you an answer that sounds right. You know, it's, so it reminds you. Yeah, it's like, hey, this sounds like it could be a correct answer,

but it doesn't really have any way because, bad information and good information are being processed equally. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, well, this sounds like it's right. And it's like, no, it could be. And I mean, there's evidence and evidence about it. But I want to get back to what you were saying about wanting, you know, going from stage to movie and sort of, because I'm the opposite. I like, I like film.

I went to film school. I like making movies. I like making television. It's what I've done mostly. I like performing live, but it's not where my passion lies. And I do think it's interesting that you, like wanting to do live stuff and being suspicious of the manipulability. Yeah. So of course you did a million fantastic improvised movies.

I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It turned out to be a big part of my career. Right, right. I'm completely surprised. Yeah, yeah. But that's the way it went. But you're so good at them.

And I mean, and they're, and those movies are so good. They're good movies. Yeah, but it's like it does almost seem like you let yourself shine and know it's because it's like, okay, there is, there's more process here. Maybe. Maybe that's why I actually don't know why. I'm really surprised. I mean, I was always able to do, I did, I identify as a stage actor. Yes. Who largely in my youth would, I was just mostly doing classics, you know, like Shakespeare and Shaw and stuff. And so I feel like that's where my, that's where I'm, that's where I'm, that this machine works most comfortably. Yeah, yeah.

Improv would be something you would might use in a rehearsal room to like explode the scene out a little bit. See what's there. And then you teach it though for a while. I taught, yeah. I taught acting mostly like scene study type stuff or. And the improvisation. There's a difference to theatrical improvisation than comedy. Yeah.

Yeah, even, I don't know. I just felt like, to me, you know, when I feel good, when I show my biceps to myself, is when, and these were many years ago, I haven't done this for a long time because I'm mostly a film television person now. But when I walk out on stage at 805 and then I would control time and space until 10. 38. Yeah, yeah. And that, uh, that to me is a completely different thing than acting in a Christopher guest movie. I mean, they're totally different activities. Yeah, yeah. The Christopher guest movie is like really exciting and fun. You end up with a great product, but it's really

handing it over to the editor. Uh, it's certainly not immediate. No. Yeah, it isn't. And, you know, when I'm on stage, it's like, you know, if I lose, if I move my left foot, just a little bit so they can see it more profile, I can get the laugh. That stuff. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, my big heroes, when I was a kid, Chuck Jones.

Yeah. Because it's science. He's like a stage performer. It's like when Bugs Bunny lifts his eyebrow on frame 38, as opposed to 41, yeah. He pops a laugh out. Yeah, yeah.

He gets a laugh. Yeah. And that's watching Chuck Jones do that. it was like completely what I was trying to do on stage. It's all real time and space. Yeah. And I, and the other thing is that that makes it, I think, more superhuman is that you, you're not working with a net.

You have to account for every six that you pull, you know, every six that you blow out your ass or maybe a four or two. You know, you have to take responsibility for it, work through it, keep going. Yeah. Go forward, not sideways, forward. And often doesn't work. Yeah. And the only thing that happens when it doesn't work is that you become a better performer. Yeah.

You get stronger. Yeah, yeah. Because you have to figure the fucker out. Yeah. And I feel like in film, you can just sort of blow out this stuff. Yeah. And someone else's problem. Yep.

Right? It's not my problem. Yeah. Oh, you don't like the joke. Cut it. Yeah. Make it funny or do a little music sting or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's out of my hands. Well, and also the performance, I mean, I'm sure you and I have both been on sets where there are performers who should give their check to the editor. Yeah. Because they are not that good. Oh, my God. And somehow they get them to like, they just need like three seconds of being good. Yeah. Of doing this the right way.

That's all you need. And they might do 15 shitty take. that are just like, Jesus Christ, how did you get to where you are? But then there's three seconds where they do it right. And they're like, and then you see that and you're like, that guy's good, you know. Oh, totally. And, and, you know, that, I don't know, I'm, I'm, I, I love, I personally, like, there's a part of me that's like, I mean, I feel like I give a higher ratio than this, this imaginary person I'm, a person I'm presenting.

but I take comfort in that too because there's days where I'm like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing here. I'm not as sure what they want. I'm not sure what's good. But then they say we're moving on and I'm like, okay, I guess I was good enough for whatever little chunk they need, you know,

and I trust them. And I guess maybe just because of where my experience and coming from, because you answered another question I had about like what was it about being on the stage? I wanted to say, is it control? Yeah. And you said, yeah, you get to control.

I think that's right. But there's another element, this sort of fairy dust element, which is that if I walk out at 805 and I get my gig on, and the show's going and going and going, and incidentally, I'm talking not about an improvisation performance. Of course. A scripted. A play, a well-written play.

And well-written plays are ridiculously great to do because you really don't have to do anything. You just have to open your mouth and this garland of flowers comes out and you're the most incredible person in the room. Yeah. Because Shaw has written all your lines for you and you're fucking incredible, you know? And then at intermission, you're just a slub like everybody else.

But it's when the... And this rarely happens in film or television. at least not for me. Yeah. Because it's too much, it's out of order. It's in these little short bursts that, again, are meant for an editor, not for an audience. Right. That suddenly the story and the character, whatever the character's emotional components are,

start to rise like yeast inside you. And you can't control it. Yeah. And it's when it's, quote, the zone for actors. Not the athletes have it, but actors can have it too. And I've rarely seen it on film, but I've certainly seen it on stage where they've gone into this other place where they can't be recovered because it just has to finish out. It has to go to 1038 before they can stop.

Yeah. Because it's a train that's moving. So they don't want it to stop. And they don't want it to. That was the goal. Yeah. The goal was to get on the train. Get on the train.

get to the zone and then with real luck, the audience is suddenly being pulled by the sternum after you. They're just like trying to keep up with you. And they're thrilled and they're laughing their asses off and they're crying and they're doing all these things that they didn't think that they were going to be doing. Yeah. And that's just talking about it.

It's like the hairs come up on my arms. That's what I got into the, that's what I was trying to do when I got into. into it when I was like 11, 12 years old. I would have these moments. I started as a child actor on stage, and in professional productions, I would be in juvenile roles, right? Mm-hmm.

Right. And I mostly was watching very closely, the actors who knew what they were doing. Yeah. That's what I was basically doing. I was just watching and listening. And then imitating them, right? Sure, that's how you start. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And anybody, anytime I've ever. ever seen voiceover classes. I'm just like, listen to the radio and just do what they do on the radio. What do you mean? Classes. It's free. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 30% off this Sunday. There you go. There's your class. You know, no, but I mean, imitation, that's how you start. That's how you start. Yeah. And I don't know, I don't know if that's how I'm finishing, but maybe it is. Maybe it is. I probably imitated you at some point. No, I mean, you get your sea legs and then you figure out who you are and then and then you, you know, in all of these different creative things and you just kind of find out like where am I?

Where's the well of me that I can tap into and it can come out, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But as it certainly as a kid. Yeah. If you're able to do that as a kid, you're too powerful. You need to be stopped. Well, yeah.

I think that in many ways I was probably better a performer as a child than I am now. Why? You didn't get in your own way? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I seem to have, I'll say this for myself, I've seen to who have been born with a lot of technique. Oh, wow.

Like I was able to think about Chuck Jones, bugs money, et cetera. Like, when does the eyebrow go up? Yeah. And then you, Tuesday night. it goes up here. It didn't work. Wednesday night. I'd do it sooner.

Yeah. That was worse. Thursday night, go up later than Tuesday night. There's the laugh. Got it. Yeah. Right? And I don't feel that process very much in film and television.

Really in film and television, usually what I'm trying to do is trying to get the focus pullers' shoulders to be jiggling. Because that's the only contacts I got. I've said that. I've said that a hundred times on the show. It's true, isn't it? When I saw the cameramen laughing, I was like, I'm fine, there we go. It's like, let's keep going.

I can clock out, you know, fulfilled. I did it. Yeah, yeah. I achieved it. You know, the boom guy was like, you know, was jiggling with his boom. And that's all you got. Yeah.

Because the director's like in some other room with headphones on, looking at nine screens and he's yelling at the producer and, you know, all that stuff. And eating. And eating. You know. Yeah. And there you are. And you're just like, is this funny?

Is this working? I can't, you know. And then, I don't really want to be the guy who runs back to video village and, like, looks at the take. Yeah, no. I can't. That's not me. I am not a fan of this.

I'm indicating my face. No. And also, I just can't look. It's terrible. Yeah, yeah. I also feel like I'm not, I rarely watch things that I've done. I'm sure you don't either. I'm the same way.

I'll take your word for it. If you liked it, that's great. Somebody liked it and that was the person I was meant to please. Yeah. There was no audience that I was trying to commune with and please. So I'm just going to please the director of the producer, whoever it was. And also, I simply don't want to see any product that's locked because I don't want to watch anything that I can't change. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. What's the point? Right. Can't you tell my loves it grows? Yeah, the only way, the only time that I, the only way it is that viewing myself that I find useful is educating for, you know, any kind of. Any kind of examination of past behavior is only good for use in the future on how to behave. Yes, that's right. Even performing?

Yeah, I can do that. Like in a performance? Yeah, yeah. I can look at myself. I can look at myself acting in things and go, oh, I was good there. Like, or I, oh, I was bad there. Or I can also, well, on this podcast, I don't listen to this podcast anymore. Right.

But in the beginning, I did. so I could go, ooh, I don't like myself doing that. Like I could listen and also too, I don't, I don't spend a lot of time telling myself that I did something well. I only tell myself, yeah, fix that. Because I still have in me and I, you know, and I'm sure that it's some kind of neuroses, like, well, the things that are good, why do we need to talk about them? Right.

The things that are good are good. Just, yeah, yeah, they're good. Let's just talk about the shit that's wrong. And so that was kind of my process of getting better at something is just to look and be like, ugh, fuck, I hate when I did that. Oh, Jesus, that was terrible. And then get better. And I have, you know, over, I learned how to do this just by doing it and listening to myself,

do it and go, oh, this is, that was a rough hour. That was a rough 70 minutes. And then getting to where I'm like, yeah. I mean, so I get the end of these. Like, this is a good one. And there I get to some of the end of some. I can already tell this is like a really good episode of this podcast. And I get to the end of a lot of them.

And I'm like, that was really good. Like, I would want to, I'm not going to listen to that, but I would want to listen to that. Yeah. Does that, does this still happen for you? In other words, you will take in something that you have done like this podcast, but you're not going to be listening to. But, and then you would, you would still look at. at it right now at this point in your career look at it and say i can do better i should not have said this i absolutely you can do absolutely to the now yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i yeah i know and i mean and i mean but even like you know i i did a run on dancing with the stars and i lasted one way longer than I probably should have. And I would watch myself doing those dances and everyone was very, and they still are very complimentary and say very good. But I know it's like I'm the remedial student. You know, they're not. And even today, because I've been on tour with them and stuff,

I can't dance as well as some of the people that were on there who were even the contestants, many of the contestants were fucking fantastic. dancers with with real experience too former professionals um but i would i would get compliments but i would see myself and i'd just be like what are you talking about it's it's just an old man clomping around out there and i would try and feel the sort of beautiful grace that i would see in the uh in the like the good dancers you know just like because there's lots of gestures there's like, lots of, like, moving your arm like this. And I would think, okay, I'm getting it.

I can, I'm really being sort of, I'm graceful in that movement. And then I'd look at it. And I'm like, that does not look like what they're doing. That looks like me waving my arms around, you know? So I, yeah, I can sort of critique that. And with the dancing, I gave up, I was just like, look, I'm, I, as I've said, I'm a rhino in a gazelle contest. I'm just, I cannot shed my rind.

Let me say this, though, about that, which is, you know, they, they, I've been asked to do dancing with the stars as well. And I've done a few of these things. I didn't do it. And I'm not proud of myself. I didn't do it probably all for the wrong reasons, which is that I have this notion that people think of me as a gazelle. And it's probably not true. You knew that you were not a gazelle going in. But the thing. But the thing is, thing is just listening to you talking this chair here. Yeah. It's like you've worked through whatever it was that I was worried about.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. You did the work and I didn't. And I think of that as cowardly sitting in this chair. And I, you know, I'm not beaten up by it, but it's something that I have noted. Yeah. And listening to you just talk, which is like, it wasn't, it was fine, whatever the experience was, you'd have to tell me, but, but it came, it went, you did things you wish you hadn't,

you did things you're glad you did. Yeah. And you're, you came out the other side and a couple of people watching it had a great time. And I, I have benefited from it considerably. Okay. I have benefited from it in a way that has not happened for years. Yeah, I know. And, uh, I don't mean to bomb me out.

Listen, I opened this door, and there have been times when, there was one time, let's talk about Jeopardy, because you're a big Jeopardy channel. I went on Jeopardy. Uh-huh. One, one game and I lost the other game. Yeah. But I got creamed. Ah. And it was really hard.

Yeah. Not in the moment, not two days later, but five days later. Ah. And it didn't hit you until five days later? I knew it was a bad experience. but I didn't know how. You put it in a drawer. Yeah.

You got it. Yeah, yeah. I put it in the freezer. Yeah. And it then got put out on the table and it had been defrosting for a few days. Right. And then it was fully defrosted. Yeah.

And I was like, why did I do that? Yeah. Why did I do that? Because I thought I was smart. And I am smart. Yeah. But not that smart. Not enough to beat those two guys.

Yeah. You know? Or I just failed. But maybe I was smarter than those two guys and I failed. Yeah. So eat that. Yeah. And I don't, I still, it's, it's, now you, you have,

you had a giant success with Jeopardy, right? Yeah, but the last two times I've been on, I've lost. What does that make you feel like? Shitty. Shitty. Yeah. Because, you know why? Because people, I expect Andy Richter to win the Jeopardy Con.

And I did, the first time I lost, I did too. And I was, I was well ahead. And then I fucked up the final question. And, and I, I still haven't watched it. It still is a, you know, is an abscess tooth that I don't want to push on. I know. Because I go like, fuck. Yeah.

You know, goddamn Simulieu. No, it's not his fault. It's not his fault. But I did. It was part of me that was delighted because it was. was the Saturday before the Emmys. And he had shit to do because he was, I think he was nominated. And it's like he had to then play another game that evening.

And it fucked up his like his Emmy plans. And I was like, well, there. It fucked up your Emmy plans. Sorry, you can't enjoy your Emmy. Yeah, sorry, you can't go to your pageant or your ball or whatever it is you're doing tonight. You're just going to have to leave that one tuxedo at home. But yeah, but it was a. And it was also, there's all kinds of technicalities that I won't bore.

Like, it was the first time ever. There had been a triple jeopardy. Oh. And if we'd stopped at double jeopardy, I would have been home clear. Yeah. You know. But yeah. And there was because I'd been on it twice before and I had won so handily.

Yeah. That I, yeah, I had experience. You had an expectation. Expectation. But I fucked up the last question, too. and that and I I can Jennings has become a friend of mine and and we had actually talked about it you know because I we talked about we I mean he's a he's a dear friend and I love him and we don't it's not we talk about jeopardy all the time but we have certainly devoted a good amount of our conversation

to jeopardy and he said yeah there's just you said you can be the smartest person in the world there's one fucking question that you don't you just don't know the answer it's a blind spot and it's it happens to be the last one. And you just, oh, well, you know. And then the last time I was on, I was in the middle of dancing with the stars. And I literally had the flu. I had a fever. But they had like manipulated the schedule to make it so that I could do it.

And I was like, okay. And I didn't plan on having the flu. But I just was like, and there were, there were, there were. And I've talked to Cannes. And he said, no, people realize, like, now, like, he said, you had the flu and I was like, okay, I'm glad that was known. Because there were questions, you know, the very wordy ones? Yeah. That where you just, like, get lost in a massive words.

And really, all it's asking is the capital of Maine. Yeah, right. You know, there were two of those where I was just like, uh, uh, Napoleon? Like, I just, I didn't, I couldn't even figure out what the question was asking. Yeah, that's the hard part. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it sucks. I was on some competition show called Stars on Mars.

Jesus. Which took place in the Australian Outback. What? Which sat in for Mars. Mars. And the idea was, what if there was a habitat on Mars? And you put me and Tenache the pop star and, you know. You mean like you're living in a bubble?

Like where they're doing fucking science experiments. Science experience. Me and Lance Armstrong and Marshawn Lynch. out picking up space trash. And, you know, and they had all these challenges and stuff. And I, you know, and I did it. I did it because, Jesus Christ, what else am I going to do? You know?

For God's what I do for a living. Yeah, it's like, okay, sure. And also, too, I got, I was there. I lasted about a week. And I got to the end of it. And I kind of got fucked over a little bit by one of the other players. And I was fucking pissed. And, and I, and I was,

I even could talk myself into like, you get to go home. There's not, there wasn't even a cash incentive for sticking around. You got the same amount of money whether you stayed for a day or whether you stayed for three weeks. Yeah, that's see. But I did that shit and got caught up in it. I know. And I, and I just have to, I just have to like, because it still annoys me, as I say to her and talk about it,

still annoys me. I'd love to fucking trash talk somebody, but I'm not going to. I know. And I'm not proud of that. And but I just, it's one of those things that I just feel like, yep, that's, that's, that's how this particularly fact, this particular factory off gases every now and then. Yeah. Like some, there's noxious buildup and it does just say what it is and then you blow it off and

then just try and get past it, you know, so. Well, I'm glad you said that because I do think that these sort of, this mental torture sometimes that is in show business is like a biological process. Yeah. You know, it's like pressure builds up in the body and then it's really, least. Yeah. You know, and that happens mentally as well. And it's hard to explain to civilians, you know, about how much disappointment is a sort of daily diet in showbiz. Maybe not the point where we're at, you know. But it's still there. It's still there. It never goes away.

It's like a daily diet of disappointment. Dustin Hoffman gets disappointed on a regular basis. There's just no way around it. There's no way around it. That's everybody. It may just be what it is to be an artist. Other people who go work in a cubicle, it may not be rejection and disappointment. It may just be anxiety and frustration, which we also get. But really, it's a steady diet of rejection and disappointment.

And it's hard to, we become used to it. But it is a gas that builds up and it has to release somewhere. And I don't really, and to me it's always different. Or in this case, that the Deputy thing was sort of a weird delayed reaction. Yeah, yeah. There was a great, I don't know, like I should even say this out loud, but it runs to my head often. Donald O'Connor in singing in the rain, right? He does make them laugh.

Yeah, yeah. There's one point, it's wonderful. and he gets hit in the back of the head with a two by four in one of the gags. And there's a tiny moment where he doesn't know it happened. Then he reacts. Yeah, yeah. It's magic. Yeah, yeah.

It's fucking funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's magnificent to watch. It's like, why? Why? How did he know? Yeah. How did he know that this delay is going to make my stomach muscles clinch?

and I'll pop out a laugh. Yeah. He knew. He either knew or he didn't know. He either knew with a capital K or he knew with a small K. Yeah, yeah. You know, and, but I do think that that was always sort of an analogy for showbiz for me. It's like, we do these things. We go to Mars.

We lose in jeopardy or whatever. And then somewhere it like events is out in some, usually at work. Yeah. Usually in some scene I'm doing. something unrelated. You know what I mean? It's because I've somehow, I pray it's because I've grown as opposed to diminished, you know what it's possible?

Yeah, yeah. But maybe, I don't know, do you believe that we diminish? I don't know if we only do nothing but grow. I think that left unchecked diminishing is inevitable. Oh, boy. And that the work that you have to do is to keep expanding. And I have this, and I have this is all very personal based on like family members and the age I'm at and the age that the people older, you know, my older parents. Yes, my elders.

And seeing like the differences in ways that they aged. And I think that calcification of your attitude, your ability to be brave, your, you know, your openness to new experience, and your capacity to experience and share joy needs upkeep. Yeah. And if you can, because I have been through periods where I was not. up keeping it very well. Me too. And, and it was no fucking fun. And it was, and I got, and I had to like brace my, you know, like the, like, not brace myself like against a shock, but like, you know, like the way you brace someone,

like grabbing by the lapels and be like, come on, man. You don't, you know where this goes. Because you've got people in your life. You don't want to do that. No. You don't want to do that, you know. And it's, and I, you know, so yeah. I think you got to.

I think because to me, it's a crust, a crust forms. Sure. And you've got to chip away at it from the inside, you know, I think. Yeah, I think. And I think you just, you know, you're a little older than me, but we're about almost it's the same age. Yeah. And you are very introspective, very self-reflective, and you've done it a dozen times here.

So if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it. I think you're doing it. It's the people that are like, I'm fine and I don't need to change. They're the ones where that's just the crust talking. Yeah, probably. Yeah. That's right. And I think in a way I've, I take it at this late juncture as a kind of blessing that I was never really an above the title talent.

You know. I'm a sidekick. Yeah, I'm a journeyman. I'm fine with that. You know, I'm a plumber. Number one on the call sheet has to deal with a lot of bullshit that I don't. You bet they do. And they, it's built, diminishment is built into that gig.

Oh, absolutely. That's a tough gig. When you're on a pedestal, there's nowhere to go. You have got to go down. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like guys like us, we just keep motoring along, you know, and some work is great. Some work six. And it doesn't matter. You just keep going.

And some things are a paycheck. Sure. And that's not a crime. No, it's not a crime at all. We have families. Yeah, we have families. And also just like, you know, it's a very complicated world. There's a lot going on. Me taking this job is not going to make a dent. It really doesn't. In the notion of righteousness. No, it isn't. Just get it and go.

It isn't. Yeah. But every now and then, you know, you get this little. mitzvah or something where like Oh, something. Magic. Yeah, somebody will approach me at a grocery store or something and say

like, I, you know, my mother, you know, when she was ailing, she watched your show and it really helped her. And it was like, oh, wow. What was I thinking when I was making that show? Not that. Yeah.

You know, and people consume these products that we make and they have all kinds of different reactions to it. It's a strange business. It is. It's very, And I mean, the ridiculous can be sublime, and I had a perfect encapsulation of that. And I mean, I've said this too.

Like, dancing with the stars was a very transformative thing for me in many, many ways. And one of them was personally, especially physically. Like I had gotten to a point, like I just got a new hip. Like I'm 59. There's things. I need new knees. You know, it's just, it's one of those things. And I'd started to feel more.

limited than I felt the limitations more than the potential. Yep. And there were things like, you know, I have a young kid now. I have a six-year-old. Let's go to Knott's Berry Farm. Sure. All right, let's go. But in my back of my mind, I'm like, in two hours, I'm going to be fucking hurt.

I'm going to die. I'm going to life. My hip is going to be screaming at me, you know, or my whole leg will be numb, you know, just like. And this, that doing that show and being forced to do that physical work was a big, big thing for me. And just my attitude about myself, my attitude about how old I am and what growth there is in front of me, it was very, very eye opening and hard opening and brain opening. And I've said numerous times, like, that had fucking mirror balls and sequent clothes and clingy pants and, you know, tap shoe, you know, just like confetti cannons going off. three minutes. Like that's where my, there wasn't that an ashram that my, you know, that my enlightenment came. It was on a ballroom dancing show. Yeah. Glitter cannon. Yeah. And that, that sort of, the absurdity of that is,

first of all, delicious to me. I love it. And yesterday, my partner, I just, she just, I was at home, getting ready to come here. She came up as a FaceTime and I clicked on FaceTime. And, She was at St. Jude's with a little girl who she wanted to talk to me. I mean, and it's like I say, I watch myself do this dances and I'm like, okay, I'll take your word for it. You know, that old man traipsing around is fun to watch. Okay. But it was a little girl at St. Jude's in St. Jude's hospital. You don't know.

I mean, you don't know. I could see on her face. Of course. okay thank you you it was amazing you know that like you said

you get these magic these magic moments where these things that you just think are like ugh this nonsense that I do but it means something

you know it does and unfortunately you can't I can't start the day's work some do

knowing that such a thing might happen you know what I mean oh yeah It wouldn't work. No. It would work.

It would not work. In fact, you would make people furious at you. Today's going to be magic, everybody. Today I will change your life with magic. And you will be in the hospital. This will be known as day one. But, you know, oh gosh, this is one of the dumbest things about this thing. Whatever it is we do, which is that what the unimportance of the thing we do is,

part of the magic. Yeah. It's it's because it's casual and unimportant that people need it so badly, right? Yeah, yeah. The rest isn't casual and unimportant. The rest is fucking scary. Yeah, yeah.

And I get it. That's why this sort of, you know, entertainment is the, whatever the, what are they called? Depressionless. In other words, it can't have a, it can't have the stock market crash,

I've lost the word, but, you know, it's proofed against that. Because it will always be something people have to escape, too. And that's what we do. And that's, I think, what, like the part of the thing that got me through the Jeopardy thing was that knowing that unlike a civilian, I wasn't like, you know, going through trivia books and working five years to get onto Jeopardy thing. and then finally getting on to Jeopardy and then blowing it. Yeah.

I mean, that must really hurt. Yes. This was a trifle. No. And it was a charity event. Yeah, yeah. Whatever I was doing, the money was going to the girl at St. Jude's. Yeah, yeah.

You know, and that's a good way to spend money. It's a good way to spend a day. Sure is. It's a great way to spend a day. Playing a game and some people are going to enjoy the game. Yeah, yeah. Old people who have nothing to do in a nursing home. They really want something.

You know, I have to recognize. all that. Yeah. And it's sometimes hard to remember. It sure is. But, and because we can't, it can't be our goal. No. Because, like you said, it won't work. Right. They can smell it on us like liquor. Absolutely. If we think we're important. Right. If they think

we think we're important. Yes. We can't be, we can't be in that position. Nothing worse than a star going like, if only people can learn from my journey. Oh, for God's shut up, man. No, it's the end of the world. Just go on your goddamn journey and shut up about it.

And on that note, I will say, go on your content journey and shut up. Michael, thank you so much. This has been a wonderful conversation. I agree. I've had a great time. Yeah, thank you. I'm so happy you came in. And I need to say that you host the Game Show America Says on the Game Show Network with a new season premiering on April 13, 2026.

That's coming right up. That's a game show hosting is, I love it. It's great. I have to say, it's a little bit like you're dancing with the stars thing. when I started, I don't know, five or six years ago doing it, and it was physically taxing because I was doing six shows a day. Yeah, yeah. And I was too old to be doing six shows a day.

Right. And it's literally a young man's game. Sure is. Yes. And my wife was concerned. She actually thought I had died at one point. I came home five days a week, six shows a day. Wow.

And I came home. For how long a stretch? Long. It was like the order was like 160. Oh my God. Wow, that's a lot. I know. Yeah, yeah. So I came home, and I would come home, and same thing every day.

I come home and I would lie on the bed on my back, which I never sleep on my back, which is bad news for her. Right, right, right, right. You're already, what's the problem? You're already ready for the casket. I'm showing my face to the mourners. And, you know, literally my hands are crossed over my chest like I'm a dead man, the shroud of turnt. you know and I remember my wife like going up and put her ear to my nose making sure he is indeed still alive but it was so exhausting yeah and but it finally was a good feeling yeah and I felt and I still feel really good about it and I really enjoy it's a fun show it's a fun show I really enjoy doing it I get to meet these eight contestants every time and they're very they're just people and they come and they come And you get to, they make money.

I know, like meaningful money. Yeah, they, you hand the money at the end. It's fantastic. It's a great job. I did, I did pyramid, the Michael Strahan pyramid once. And I would, the, the contestant was a teacher, a school teacher. And she ended up in the final thing. Yeah.

And thank God she messed it up. It wasn't me that messed it up. She didn't get the final thing. But the thing right before that that she got, yeah, was a Disney cruise. Nice. And as they're going like, year, spend four. Four days and four nights, as they're going through that, she went, and she looked at me and she went, those are so expensive. And I felt like that she, that was, I was like, oh my God, I just gave this woman this.

I mean, I didn't, but you know what I mean? I was, I was, I was feeding her the clues or whatever. Yeah, yeah. But I was like, and I really think that that meant more than money, you know, that she got to take her kids on a Disney cruise. Yeah. And those things are expensive. They are expensive. And now they're just like priced right out of the range of like a middle class family.

Absolutely. It's like 200 bucks a person. More. I don't even know, you know. Well, Michael, again, thank you so much. It was great having you here. Yeah. And thank all of you for listening.

I'll be back next week with more of this. It won't be as good, but it will be more of this. It won't be more of me, so don't worry. You guys can move on. The three questions with Andy Richter is a team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rich Garcia. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Nick Leow, Adam Sacks, and Jeff Ross.

Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, with assistance from Maddie Ogden. Research by Alyssa Graal. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to the three questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts. And do you have a favorite question you always like to ask people? Let us know in the review section. Can't you tell my loves are growing? Can't you feel it ain't it showing?

Oh, you must be a-knowing. This has been a team Coco production.