The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Jonathan Van Ness

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Jonathan Van Ness joins Andy Richter to discuss his path to Queer Eye, their shared Illinois heritage, sustainable haircare, TV stars vs. movie stars, and much more.

Hey everybody, welcome back to The Three Questions. I'm your host, Andy Richter. Today I'm talking to Jonathan Van Ness. Jonathan is a lovely human being. He's a hairstylist, stand-up comedian, entrepreneur, television personality, podcast host, and author. He became a household name as one of the stars of Netflix's Queer Eye. He's also the host of Getting Curious with Jonathan Van Ness podcast, which will be expanding to cover so many topics you wouldn't believe it. We were very lucky to have him live in the studio. We had a ton of fun. Here's my conversation with Jonathan. Well, let's start podcasting, shall we?

Let's do it. I'm talking today with Jonathan Van Ness, who is now a hairstyling mogul. I was a hairstyling mogul even before. Oh, you were? I was a mogul of chaos and being a whore so both is that a hairstyling

mogul? I just had different goals I was running in different circles and Queer Eye I mean that's where I became aware of you was on Queer Eye, you're very, you know, you're, I mean, that's where I became aware of you, was on Queer Eye. And then I was also, I didn't realize you're from Illinois. You're from Quincy, Illinois.

I am. I know. I'm from Yorkville, Illinois, if you know where that is. Is that? It's up by Aurora. Oh, I'm very familiar with Aurora. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, so I always, I'm only, you know, fellow.

I don't know how you feel about fellow Illinoisans, but I always feel some kind of kinship. Me too. Yeah. Especially when they're like non Chicago adjacent Illinoisans. Yeah. Even though I love Chicagoans as well. I do, too. But I do think, you know, when you get into that, like, Quad Cities, Rock Island, Moline, Rockford, like, you know, like Edwardsville, fucking Springfield.

Like, you know, what's up? What's good with like that central and southern and like northwestern? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, but you're a hot slut for fuck's sake. And I'm so excited you're now. Not to take a hard right, but I'm going to. Okay, do it. There's something about this studio and I know that I'm going to age myself and that's fine because I think aging is a privilege. I'm so to. Okay, do it. There's something about this studio, and I know that I'm going to age myself,

and that's fine, because aging is a privilege, and I'm so excited to be here. Yes. I feel like there is a strong Frasier vibe to this studio, this particular studio. There's something about,

I know that there's not a glass viewing area, but there's just something about, not the whole office, obviously. Right. Not because it's way too chic. We're way too 2023. But there's not a glass viewing area, but there's just something about, not the whole office, obviously. Right. Not, because it's way too chic. We're way too 2023. Mm-hmm. But there's something about this.

I don't know if it's the blue, if it's the lighting. Yeah. I mean, I feel like Kelsey fucking Grammer and that cute little dog. And then the lady, who was that fierce actress? I love her. Yeah. And is it, okay. Can I go?

Can I just, can I go on it? Just do whatever you want. Okay, so will you tell me if this is right or wrong? Because it, okay, I'm, can I go, can I just, can I go on it? Just do whatever you want. Okay, so will you tell me if this is right or wrong because I, okay, do you know, do you know the character

in Speed 1? You saw Speed 1, right? I did. With Keanu. Remember that fucking lady who when, when he's like,

I'm watching you, like, don't evacuate the bus, but then she's like, sorry, and she does, and then she gets pulled up and she dies?

Okay, so I thought that that actress was the same actress who plays Aunt Maggie in Twister. You remember in Twister when everyone goes to Aunt Maggie's and she has like the steak and she has like those amazing wind chimes? That one I don't remember. No, no, no, come on.

I don't remember Twister. Come on, yes you do. Okay, I'm going to say yes. Bill Paxton. Yes. Helen Hunt, remember? Yes. Like We Got Cows. Yes. Did you guys see it? So that's still not ringing a bell for you. No,

not at all. No. Okay. Well, I thought that they were the same actress. And then just like two weeks ago, I realized that they are not the same actress. And so ever since the nineties,

like I've been so wrong. And so I just was like really surprised. So now back to Ross Frazier. Is she also the same actress that's in Elementary that's having her renaissance? Is that the same actress or are they different? No, that's a different... Because it's Perry Gilpin.

Of course. I believe is her name, correct? Yes, in Frasier. But I haven't seen Perry Gilpin in a while. So I just want to highlight that I think it's great that I, as a white person am miss in messing up white people you're saying white people all look alike yeah i know so i just think that that's right i think that's i'm brian dennehy i'm relieved i'm brian dennehy back

from the grave but yeah uh so that's i just so that so but you guys think that they're yeah so they're totally not the same. Yeah. But you see how they could totally be sisters or something. Yeah. I mean, it's like the red hair. I know. I know what you mean. Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. My ex-wife once said to me, she said, oh, my God, there was a an unhoused gentleman asking for money at a stoplight. And she said, oh my God, that's Dorothy's ex-husband Stan from Golden Girls. No, no, no, no. I was like, no, it isn't. She's like, I swear it is.

It has to be, that has to be him. I was like, I don't think so. They had royalties back then. As soon as we stopped I looked it up and he'd been dead for three years oh thank god

and I was like yeah that was him for sure his character work was and actually no one as I am saying that out loud deserves to deal with homelessness or being houseless

like no one deserves that whether or not you're a great actor but I just really like him and I really like Golden Girls that being as good and cause he was in everything I Golden Girls. That being as good,

and because he was in everything. Golden Girls is my shit. It's the best. I partially dropped out of college because of Golden Girls. How come? You watched it too much? It was on Lifetime too much. Yeah, yeah.

It was on from like five in the morning and it was on for like four hours and I had classes at eight and I couldn't get my fucking gay ass out of the house. If that was on, it had me in a chokehold. When my first kid my son

who's 22 uh my ex-wife and i had joked about because when she was pregnant with him it was just golden girls golden girls golden girls and we said that that's probably what turned him gay and uh just too much in in utero golden girls i love gay. I love dads of gays. Yeah, that's what I meant. I love dads of gays. I also, in that era, designing women. Yeah. Like, those both really, really gave me a lot of my, like, personality. With all those characters, they're just so funny.

Just the jokes are just... I'm always amazed by people that don't have like the camp gene like that don't find camp delightful and funny and and have a you know like a because i there's i know lots of straight guys are just like camp humor and stuff or like the golden girls are like roll their eyes like this that is the shit that's really funny stuff oh god i'm obsessed with you yeah okay yeah i could use at least one person yeah no i love that thank you yeah um well let's get back to you never yes because the point of this podcast is uh it the three questions part is uh where do you come? Where are you going? And what have you learned?

So that, so it's, I like people to kind of, I'm always interested because I do it. I've been in therapy for a gazillion years. Same. And I, I like people who are willing to say,

how come I'm like this? And if I don't like it, what do I do about it? And your story is that completely. I think. Yeah. Because you, I mean, you, you know, you started out in a small town in a well-established family to tell, tell about your family, first of all, in Quincy. Sure. Um, so my family, I come from a broadcasting family. My family had a, um, it was, uh, it was like a multimedia company, newspapers,

TV stations, and radio stations. So my mom was mostly in newspaper. So I grew up like running around newspapers. Um, so I would be, my mom would bring me to the newspaper after work and I would like run around the advertising department. I would be like,

I'd be running around with the photographers and like going in the dark rooms and learning like how they develop film. I was like in the like layout room before there was computers and it was like rubber cement and like, yeah. So that was kind of my playhouse. And I think that is part of where I developed like such my curiosity to like want to learn. I think like we're getting curious came from like, cause I love learning and I love people that are like really into what they're doing, which is so often like what gets covered, especially in local news. Yeah. You know, because like I come from a local news family.

Yeah. So I think I love journalism. I love learning. And I think I had like a really like exciting like I just had like a lot of exciting like opportunities as a kid. If you think I got to like rollerblade around a newspaper, you know. Yeah, sure. There was once a time I think I think I got to like rollerblade around a newspaper, you know, there was once a time I think I think I tell this story in my book.

We had like the World Free Fall Convention in Quincy every year where I was from. It was like a really big deal. Like the Today Show would come and like report live like fucking Katie Kirk and Quincy was a big fucking deal in the 90s. Free fall is fall out of an airplane. But don't pull your parachute until the last minute. Well, no, they would like I had like a normal time, like,

you know, but like free falling, you know, it's like what it's like the world free fall convention. That's what they called it. But then I think the insurance got too high. Cause people every year, like at least one or like someone would die.

Now that's a celebration. It's true. But, but they would be breaking records and shit. Like for like the biggest, like, you know, form or whatever.

And you could get funnel cake. There was bouncy houses. It was a was a whole thing it was like it was like a big deal going out there sounds like there should have been more bouncy houses because people were dying yeah but one year we were covering it in the paper and i was like i was maybe seven or something and i got woken up at like four in the morning by my mom who who was distraught, never seen her, she looked like a fucking ghost. Yeah. And basically they had taken a picture of this guy who was rolling up his parachute and he was kind of,

he was like kind of squatting down, putting the parachute in his bag. And they put this picture on the front page of the paper and then printed it. And it was already like with all the carriers and it was already being distributed. And no one realized that his like testicle was fully hanging out of his, of his shorts? He had like testicle was fully hanging out of his

shorts he had one testicle that had fallen out of his underwear and was like fully visible on the front page and so my mom was like wake up your brother's like we gotta fucking go and my whole family got a nut emergency literally we are like running around town like taking up paper routes like running up to the thing like to get the news

to collect them back to reissue like a new paper that morning. We had just like fun shit. Like there was like, it was like, I just, it was like a, like an interesting childhood,

I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did that, so did it go out on the wire too, with the testicle hanging? I don't know if there were,

like, was there wires in the nineties? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so yeah, it did.

Wow. Yeah. It got released. I'm sure you could find one. I think, you know, I, people like, that's the kind of thing that I just feel like, listen. You can't see everything. Half the population has testicles.

I personally think that seeing one on the front page of the paper would be delightful. It was an event. It was an event. It was. But yeah, that was my family. So my dad was. It was. But that was my family. So my dad was more on TV. My mom was more on newspaper. And all I knew was is that I didn't want to go into that industry.

Yeah. Was it expected? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you could do whatever you wanted. But, you know, I mean, I've been in my family for like six generations, like seven generations. Wow. But, you know, I mean, I've been in my family for like six generations, like seven generations. Like it was like a big we actually just was sold like a year ago. And I definitely never thought I would like see that in my lifetime.

Like I never thought that that would happen. So that's a terrible time for small. Oh, it's been horrific. Oh, it's been horrific. It's been horrific. Oh, it's been horrific. And I'm so concerned for, I mean, literally, like, news, like, literacy and being able to interpret news is really under threat. Yeah.

But that hasn't just only been, like, it's really been, like, since the 80s. Yeah, no, it's been a downturn. downturn and i mean we and we are neck deep in the wwe-ification of of politics and news and everything it's all it's all just like some bullshit spectacle now and that's what half the country seems well i mean they're not really half it's so missing yeah that's what they want you know they don't care about reality they want you, you know, WWE. You know what I thought was so funny? Did you listen to, did you listen to Bagman with Rachel Maddow? Yeah. Okay, that shit. Anyone who has not listened to Bagman.

It was about Spiro Agnew. Yes. And the Maryland state, just incredible corruption. So he was the vice president to Nixon and he had been like the governor of Maryland. And prior to that, he'd been like the treasury secretary, like the department of training. He had like, so, but he was doing a lot of pay for play bribes. And so basically I had never heard of him, did not know that there was like a dual constitutional crisis at the time because you had Nixon who was engaging in like Watergate.

And then you had Spiro Agnew who was like literally handing out like suitcases full of cash from the White House for government contracts. But what I thought was so interesting that she talks about in that series is that like at the end of Watergate, like when Watergate was all said and done and the tapes were fucking out, even with the tapes out, Nixon always had this, you know, I was, it was a sham. It was a witch hunt. Like, you know, like I was mercilessly prosecuted. Like this was a political hit job. It was like a lot of the same vernacular that we're looking at now, but 30% of people after Watergate still thought that Nixon deserved to be pardoned,

that he, you know, had done nothing wrong. Like they, or, or that they didn't believe what the charges were. Like they felt like it was didn't believe. Yeah. What the charges were. Yeah. Like they felt like it was a hoax. And so even in the presence of like tapes, like it's on fucking tape. Yeah. And all of that testimony, we still had 30% of people that were like, no. Yeah.

You know? So I just think it's the, it's the misinformation and disinformation. I got into a hour long and a trans debate yesterday and it was so exhausting because the amount of misinformation and disinformation that is in circulated in our even mainstream media. Yeah. We just got people out here so fucking misguided, so passionate about shit that is literally not true. Yeah. Not based in fucking reality. And we got people more upset about hypothetical unfairness in sport than the fact

that we've got like millions and millions and millions of children and their families who like cannot access healthcare, aren't allowed to fucking go to school or scared for their fucking lives. Like I know dozens of families in Texas alone who have like fled our state because of what's going on. Yeah. But we're worried about like fictitious Olympic medals. Uh, you know,

we're worried about fair. I just, these, no, it's, that's what I say. That's it's all. If you don't have any ideas,

then you get riled. You get people riled up about fucking bud light cans and shit like that because you don't have any other ideas other than well i think we should uh you know give uh powerful white people more unfettered access to the cash trough which is exactly what god damn you that impression was amazing i i'm sorry i got to say that it was like such it was so good that was that yeah that was that yeah that was my uh that was my uh i don't know who that was but your three questions i got so adhd i'm sorry it was like where have you been where where do you uh where do you come from where are you going

and what have you learned we did the where we came from we got that part right yeah well we we i'm wearing you know we got time oh i got all the time No, never. Okay. I just like, I have this horrific habit of going on other people's podcasts. Yes. Commandeering the conversation. That's fine with me. Not asking, not answering any of the fucking questions. My check cash is the same either way. Whether you lead this or whether I do. Okay, do you want to play this other game then that I had an

intrusive thought about five minutes ago, but I'm trying not to be a dumb bitch. Okay, because it all started with Frazier. Let them all out. The intrusive thoughts are my friend. It all started with Frasier. Okay, you ready? Okay. You know how like in the 80s and 90s, like, and even like odds,

like, you know, there's like movie stars and then there's like TV stars. Yes. And I also was thinking about this because of Golden Girls. Yes. Because like,

they were like TV stars. Yes. And I just felt like it was harder for a crossover. Mm-hmm. So then I was thinking do we need to play a game of who is someone from the 80s or 90s

who did a successful small screen to big screen crossover I just answered it it came to me are you ready? Cher because she did the Sonny and Cher show and then she fucking got two Oscars

and I would say Johnny Depp would be one. How did he do TV first? Jump Street. 21 Jump Street. Yeah, it was a Fox, like where he played like a detective who goes undercover at a high school.

I didn't even know that that existed. Yeah, yeah. And I heard that name. It was in the early days of Fox. And I think like his partner was like Dom DeLuise's son whose name I can't is that what they did a remake movie of like with Channing Chan

Tay Tay yeah honey Chan Chan God his and Jonah Hill was the other one yeah Channing Tatum's like girl dad hot like no toxic masculinity yeah yeah like gays are like ooh straight guys like I'm so into them I'm like I've never been into like,

because like to me, when I think of straight men, no offense, I just think of like skin marks, like icky buttholes, like just like not, you know what I'm saying? Like,

why are you into that? Like, I'd much rather like a femme queen who knows how to like prepare. Yes. You know? Right. Like,

I like that. Put some work in before you get down to business. Yeah, yeah. But Channing is the type of like, you know, girl dad, like no toxic misogyny yeah like toxic massive masculinity like like girl dad vibes that just really that I do get confused yeah I do yeah and also I know that he's controversial it shows it shows that you there's growth you've grown yeah Justin Trudeau does that for me too uh-huh I'm

like wow and he's newly single. Yeah. You know. What about Keanu Reeves? Oh wait, but I'm married. But wait, what about me as like the first lady of Canada? Well. No, but I'm really, I love my husband. I mean, I just, I hope your husband's not listening. No, I love him so much. And I, but I do think being a first lady could

be kind of interesting. Yeah. Well, I mean, Justin, if you're listening, I don't, I i bought it i bet he's not this could what if the prime minister of canada was like your number one fucking fan of this fucking podcast i was like oh we don't fucking know he's like oh my god they're talking about me right now holy shit i made a podcast and these government scandals were like, at least I got this win. Hello, mom. I got this fucking win. Okay, wait. So, but yeah, Johnny Depp is another great one.

Johnny Depp was one. And I'm trying to think, like, who else would have been? George fucking Clooney. Thank you. From ER, obviously. Yeah, giant one. Yeah. When I think about ER.

And it was in the, in Dermot. Dylan McDermott? Yeah. One of the McDreamy or whatever. Didn't he become a movie star? He's really attractive as well. In ER, do you remember the opening credits?

I never watched a movie. Really? There was a part in the opening credits where one of the actors was in the hallway of the hospital and he was like, ugh. I think he just saved someone's life one of the actors was like in the hallway of the hospital and he was like, uh, like, I think he just saved someone's life or something.

He was like, uh, I, that's like a core memory for me. I still remember that. You mean, uh, like,

like a fist pump, but he did it because he saved someone's life. Yeah. Like in the hallway, like he walked out of like saving someone's life and he was like, uh,

it's like a slam dunk. Yeah. That makes me think Sandra. Oh, there's somebody. I fucking love medicine. That makes me think Sandra Oh. There's somebody. Ooh, I fucking love her. Sandra Oh from TV to movies. I love her so much.

I love her so much. I love her literally so much. I'm obsessed. Sideways. Come on. No, she's like amazing. She's fantastic. She's so good in everything she does

and she can't help it. And also not to name drop, but I did meet her and her mom and her dad at the Emmys and we took pictures together this one year and she was so nice. Yeah.

And like this really genuine like you're not even annoying me way even though you're clearly obsessed with me and like. Yeah, yeah. And I was also like

asking her mom all about her glam and just be, I was just being generally overeager because I was just way too excited. Moms love that though.

No, I was just like thanks for not, like for being like cool with me. She was like really cool. Yeah, that's great. Can't you tell my love's a-growing? Back to Quincy.

Oh, my God. My favorite place. Did you feel, because of having such a pedigree, that there was expectations of you in town too like did you feel watched because you were from a i'm making air quotes prominent family um i think that there was definitely like like perception like there was like a perception of that for sure i think that for me personally i was getting more attention uh not only because of who my family was but also because i was like a raging homosexual in tights and obsessed with Hanson

and couldn't stop talking about like Michelle Kwan and like my like, you know, never ending obsession of my guinea pigs. Like, you know, I just wanted to talk to you about Peanut and Nilly and what they were up to. And then- Did you dress them up? I didn't dress them up,

but I thought they were both girls, but then Nilly turned out to be, or I thought that they were both girls, but then Weenie was a boy. Well, aptly you may have willed it. I changed his name after I found out when he became a dad. Badgy?

No, I know his name before weenie. I actually don't even remember. Cause it was like a girl, but he was like Noma. Cause like my godmother's name was like Noma. But then when we realized that he was a dad, I changed it to weenie.

Weenie. Cause I thought it would be funny. Right, right. But then they had four kids. And so then I just, I really, I loved guinea pigs so much. Yeah, yeah.

And I told everyone about it. Yeah. But I think that's why I was getting more attention because I was just like very super queer. Yeah. And a very, you know, I mean,

my hometown currently voted for Trump in the last election, like three to one. I think the exit poll showed. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the trouble with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the trouble with small towns. Everyone's like, oh yeah, small towns are great.

And I'm like, actually, yeah, for whom? I remember my mom, I remember there's a John Cougar Mellencamp song about I was born in a small town. Oh yeah. I can breathe in a small town which is like well yeah of course you can you're fucking in a small town john cougar mellencamp and you fucked your way through central indiana honey you know that perm that perm that perm that textured perm and that volume a one-third of his total height was hair. No, that perm was really incredible.

Yeah. Well, but in that song, he says, and people let you be just what you want to be. And I was driving in the car with my mother when that song had just come out. And she heard that and she went, bullshit, when she heard that they let you be what you want to be.

She's like, uh-uh. It doesn't work like that. I mean, again, like, yeah, sure. If you're John fucking Cougar Mellencamp and you, you know. Which who is John is like a white straight. Yes, precisely. Yeah. It's like they let you be who you want to be if it conforms to what they want. Whereas I got chased around on pitchforks.

Wow. You know. Literally? Not literally. I do say that's like a joke but it was torches i got chased around yeah and and i mean how was your how was your family i mean i mean you know i you know families know it's like i have a this child is obviously a gay child and and were they accepting were they protective were they you know they did protective? Were they, you know? They did the best they,

they definitely did the best they could. But I mean, I got really mercilessly bullied. And I think the time in which I got bullied, there wasn't really like protocol for like how to deal with that. Yeah. And so. It was stepping weird.

That was the protocol. Well, no, I mean, actually, I think, I mean, there was like a time when I was in like seventh grade where like the bullying was so bad. And that was like in the time of like ICQ where there was no, I mean, actually I think, I mean, there was like a time when I was in like seventh grade where like the bullying was so bad. And that was like in the time of like ICQ where there was like, I mean, just death.

I see. It was like this early, like two thousands, like late nineties, like messaging thing that was really popular in like junior highs and high schools. It was like, it was like,

I seek you like I see you. I see. I see. Um, and so, but I mean, kids would just be, I mean,

yeah, I can't, I don't want to say it cause, but it's just so many death threats. So much like terrible stuff. kids would just be i mean yeah i can't i don't want to say it because but it's just so many death threats so much like terrible stuff mean me not just i mean death threats not like mean mean mean but like you know you should x y just really intense yeah very graphic and that was really common and so then but then when but then it was like the prince was like well you need to make a list of the people who are being the worst and we'll bring them in and have talks but then that only like emboldened them and made it like

you know way worse yeah and then ultimately that was like in seventh grade and what really ended up kind of like saving me was cheerleading because everyone knew who i was but no one really liked me except for like you know my very tiny little nuclear friends yeah um but then when i tried out for cheerleading on a dare and then i made it all of a sudden like these girls were like my people yeah and they like they could make fun of me because i was like really over eager and i was so excited to make the squad and like cheerleading became my entire identity yeah but it was like one of those things like you can make fun of your friend or like you can make fun of your family member or friend but like like if anyone else does, like you're. Oh, so you got a posse that protected you. Oh, that's great. That happened. I felt like

I got, I did, I was, I felt a lot safer even though I was like more visible, but those girls really had my back. And some of those people are like still some of my closest friends today. Wow. That's wonderful. Well, one in particular, but yeah. I mean, I still like, I still love like all of them. And so, I so I mean were you was there any sort of like dating life for you when you were like in high school did you go to dances and things or was that were we not at that point no um I went to dance with my with like girlfriends I write a lot in my first book over the top about like my first kind of like unrequited like heart stopper-esque like you know like high school love um and his name in the book

was feodor um but yeah that was like the closest thing but that was more just like heartbreaking and like devastating and um and also also i think but yeah no there there was no like healthy dating space no right right yeah and were there any and you the, there was nobody else in town that was like, sort of also gay or. There was one kid who was so brave and equally as flamboyant as me. And I loved that kid. His name starts with a CH and first name starts with a CH and his last name ended with an ER. and first name starts with a ch and his last name ended with an er um and so he would spell his name capital ch and then lowercase all the rest of the first and last name and then uppercase er is one word so i would say like that's so great um i like i would share came out with like do

you believe in life after love like we would just see each other in the halls like but no there's a two of us. So we really ran and like, cause you know, my hometown is like 35,000 people or something, but like, it's not like a tiny little town, but all of the really tiny towns around us, like a lot of their public schools will like, like there's only like one high school.

Yeah. There's like one public school and one private school. So everybody, you know, you're like, I mean, my graduating class was like 1500 people or something. Yeah. That's a full lie. So everybody, you know, you're like, I mean, my graduating class was like 1500 people or something. Yeah. That's a full lie. I think it was 500,

but it was big enough that like you wouldn't necessarily see, you know. Yeah. There were some kids you didn't really know. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, now what did you think you were going to do with your life at that point? I mean, was and was there always a I got to get the fuck out of here? Always that. Yeah, yeah. I thought I would be a lawyer. Oh, really? Yeah, I thought I'd be a lawyer.

Then I realized I would rather do drugs and pull tricks in college, so So that's what you did. So I did. But then actually, it wasn't only that I wanted to pull tricks and do drugs to support my drug habit. It was more of that.

Like, I really knew I wanted to do hair. I think I've always known that I wanted to do hair, but my family was like, that's not viable. You know, you like got to get a degree. And if you still want to do hair, then you can do that. But then I think, you know, crashing and burning out of college, they were like, girl, fucking do whatever. But you're going to like do it like you're going to handle it yourself.

Yeah. So that's what I did. And this was Arizona. You went to college in Arizona. Yeah. And it did not. It didn't. But I learned a lot.

Made some good friends. You know, cut my teeth a little. And then I moved back home. And then I stayed there for a couple months. And then I went to Minneapolis. I went to hair school when I was 18. Then I graduated when I was 19. And then I moved to Arizona again.

Because I was like, I can do over. I can do it better this time. But I went to Phoenix the second time. And I did. I did great there. I built a can do over. I can do it better this time. But I went to Phoenix the second time and I did. I did great there. I like built a great clientele. I worked at a salon

for a few years. But then I was like, I really wanted, the reason I didn't go to LA or New York because I was like, I knew that I would just like become

like a drug addled like just mess in three seconds. Like I was like, I had like a voice inside me that was like, girl, you are not, like you are not mature enough yet to handle that. So when I was like 21, 22, I was like, yeah I had like a voice inside me that was like girl you are not Kate like you were not mature enough yet to handle that so when I was like 21 22 I was like yeah I'm

really ready to learn like I want to be a become a better hairdresser like I had kind of gotten as busy as I was going to get and learned as much as I was going to learn in Phoenix at that time yeah and so then the next you know path or like the next step was LA. So then I moved to LA in 2009. And I lived there with the exception of 2012, which is like my dark era. I like, I moved out of LA for like six months in 2012, but then I came back and then that's where I would eventually do like gay of Thrones and book where I,

and like come to be where I am now. So LA, LA was like a huge part in my like formative, you know, experience. Did you go back to Arizona? Like, was there like,

you felt like this is unfinished business? Like I, I fucked up Arizona. I've got to go back and make it right. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And also like my dad's parents like had like, we're snowbirds there and I never got to like live in the same city as them. And my grandma, my dad's mom. And you were close to them and not as much. Like I was closer to my mom's parents. Cause like I lived in the same town as them. And, uh, but you know, I would see my dad's parents on like Christmas you know but it's like once a year like not that close and like the occasional phone call but not you know that often and so then when I moved back to Phoenix or when I moved to Phoenix like I knew my grandma was there and it's like this is kind of a cool opportunity to like get to know her so I would like pick her

up every Friday and I'd take her to the salon and I'd blow her hair out and then we'd go run errands and then I'd like take her back to her house. So I really got to know her like much better. And then she ended up getting dementia and passed away of complications from like her dementia. And I really got to like show up for my family and like really be like one that they like relied on for like the first time. So that was like really good. And then I, and then I moved to LA like after she passed away, but she actually passed away on my 22nd birthday, which I thought was like kind of like, I thought it was actually kind of beautiful. And like, it's actually like really interesting. Like I've always wondered this statistically, I have like five cousins

on my mom's side and I have like, well, wait, and not including me, I have like, Jesus, on my mom's side, there's like five grandkids. Yeah. Right. And on my, on my dad's side, there's six grandkids. Yeah. And both my grandmas, both my fucking grandmas died on their youngest grandchild's birthday. Wow. So my mom's mom died on my little cousin's birthday and my dad's mom who, and she's the littlest one. And my dad's mom died on my birthday and I'm the youngest one. And you're the baby of that family too. What the fuck is this? What is the statistical odds

that out of like a group of five and a group of six, like both maternal grandmas would die on like the youngest child's birthday? Yeah, yeah. I just think that's like, come on statistician, like come through.

Like I feel like that's like- And what does it mean? Well, that I should have placed like a triple bet on that Paris Plus or whatever because I would have like, that would have been like a good bet. who knew I could have gotten so if that was like a universal thing yeah yeah like why couldn't I couldn't line up on something else um but yeah so I that was but there definitely I wanted to like prove to myself that I could like hack it

alone like there yeah and then once I felt like I did and I was like I did this then I like wanted to move to LA and and was because I mean you got known from those internet videos and from that Game of Thrones recap that's kind of like where you and didn't you win like an Emmy or something we got nominated we got nominated for three that's

fantastic yeah we got nominated for outstanding outstanding variety series short is the name of it yeah and we were nominated in there like a nog like the first time the Emmy's ever Outstanding I think it was like Outstanding Variety Series Short is the name of it. Yeah. And we were nominated in their

like the first time the Emmys ever even recognized that as a category. Like we were in their inaugural one and then we which I was not

nominated for because I didn't understand Hollywood politics and did not make sure to make sure that I was listed as a producer which I absolutely

fucking lutely was. So that was a bite in the ass but you know I've learned that about six more times. So you absolutely fucking lutely was. So that was a bite in the ass. But, you know, I've learned that about six more times. So, you know, so that's fine. So that's the first time, but that's fine. And also like, I'm a strong believer in like, let's give credit where credit is due.

But so, but I did get nominated for the second and third times. So I did make sure of that. So that was how I secured my first two nominations. And then since then, I've been nominated four times. Wow. Do you go every time? I have. But I have to say, if anyone from the Academy is listening,

if you don't give us a fucking red carpet for creative Emmys, honey. Kids aren't liking it. Yeah, yeah. Why does it feel like I'm at a fucking… It's a trade show. Yeah. Yeah. I hosted them one year.

In fact, I hosted them on September 9th of 2001. Two days later. Wow. It was 9-11. Of course. And at that time, because Ellen DeGeneres was going to host them, and they had to postpone them and put them off. But yeah.

But I hosted those. And it is. It's like, A, it's just put them off. But yeah, but I hosted those and it is, it's like, a there's, there's, it's just, I told 10 minutes of jokes and then I would, and then it would be like, here are two celebrities to give out six awards. And then I would come and say, wasn't that great. Here's two more celebrities to give out 10 awards. And then it takes three and a half hours. Well, you know, I, well actually, like, I gotta say, like, not to be a cunt because, actually, they do a good job.

Like, the show's, like, kind of pretty and it's, like, it's pretty in there and, like, it is, like, one... It's gotten fancier, too. Yeah, but it's, like,

just give us a red carpet. Like, you work your ass off, like, all year. Like, you're in fucking New Orleans in 175 degree heat and that's just why all of these shows,

all of these unscripted shows, like, there's this idea that, like, unscripted shows, like there's this idea that like unscripted is somehow easier. Like it's actually, I think fucking way harder because we have to be ready for anything at any time.

You can plan as much as you want to plan, but it's, you're not working with actors. We cannot, you can, there is so only so much that you can solve for it.

We have to be so on our toes. And especially for us, because like we're not in a studio, there is so only so much that you can solve for it we have to be so on our toes um and especially for us because like we're not in a studio like i'm not in a controlled studio where i get to do a show for 10 days and then never and then like done in the air conditioning i wish yeah and not that the other hosts aren't talented because they really really are but i'm just saying on i really what we do is like it is so hard i like listen i started on late night with conan o'brien but he we started doing that and at the time there was you know we were we were existing in reaction very much to david letterman like there was stuff that we would think to do and we would

go that's too letterman-y like yeah it's and it'll be funny, but it'll look too much like David Letterman. And one of those things was because he had been so known for going out and doing remotes, which is a remote piece, out of the studio, going out and shooting things. And he was so well-known for that that it was decided, like, Conan can't really – he shouldn't do that, so we'll send you. decided like conan can't really he shouldn't do that so we'll send you because i kind of you know like one of the colors that i would paint with was kind of like you know kind of naive guy like you know man child kind of and so i'd go and do remotes on these things and you know like i i would go they'd be like go to the miss america pageant and make 10 minutes of television. I never learned how to do that. But how fun. I had to go fucking do it, you know?

Yeah, it was really fun. But I understand. I used to go and I just would get so the anxiety of sitting in the van as we're driving there before. And also, quite frankly, I'm not like, I'm not the life of the party. I mean, I'm a, I like to be funny and stuff, but I'm kind of shy,

you know, especially in like, no. I don't pay you for it. I know, I know. But I mean, but generally in like big groups, like I don't want to be the guy that everyone's looking at

and laughing at. Yeah. So to go in with a microphone into a big group of strangers, it's social anxiety steroids. You know, it's just so hard. So like,

but so I'm with you. Nobody, no, there's no, there's no way to learn how to do that other than just do it and occasionally fall on your face and, and pray to God that your editor is kind. Yeah.

Yeah. We have such an amazing team there. I mean, more like it's that. And it's also like, you know, if something happens with like a house or like someone's close or like, you know, the highlights or like the makeup, it's like you're redoing the house and like you find out that there's a leak or. Yeah. It's not going to be done. So you got to like switch everything around. And then like and also like we want them to have a good experience so you're also like trying to not make it seem

like you just found out that like a you know some big fucking thing happened and you're like yay yeah that's good yeah you're like holy shit like i'm gonna have to do this makeover in like 45 fucking minutes and like i don't have 17 hands like what am I gonna do yeah and I don't even like I hope that didn't none of that sound like complaining I just mean that like it no it's a lot of work it is a lot of work and I think unscripted is like for like budget to budget of you know like I just feel like unscripted

people are generally it's not treated as like as much of an art or as much of a science or as much of a whatever and it's like I just think it's kind of like wild wild west and you're really learned like it's just i feel like it is really like taxing and takes a lot of skill and art and like cinematography like it's storytelling it's like it's all of it it's really i just think it's like really it's like a it's a whole different beast and you don't got to compare them but i think like i just think they're both equally amazing yeah and very different and they deserve their they deserve

their times to shine yeah and the people who work so hard to bring this entertainment together like all back to the red carpet of the creative arts emmys deserve a fucking red carpet yeah yeah like let these people and it's not only me it is well it is me too because i don't fucking put in eight pounds of extensions to a slick back braided pony and fucking squeeze my ass in Spanx and a fucking look to get out there for no fucking carpet, first of all. But it's also not just me, it's all the other people. Like that's everybody's chance one time a year

to like put on your Sunday best and like go celebrate. And to stiff those people, how much money are you saving from not having a red carpet? Yeah. Like that much? Yeah, yeah. I'll rent the fucking carpet. How about money are you saving from not having a red carpet? Yeah. Like that much? Yeah, yeah. I'll rent the fucking carpet.

How about that? Like you need a couple. Bring one next time. Come on. Yeah. When you came to L.A., like had you always had kind of a performer sort of thing in you? I mean, you know, you said you were, you know, obviously gay and, you know, you couldn't hide your light under a bushel. No, you let it shine.

Did you have a performer? Like, did you always kind of want to entertain? Did you always a performer? Like, did you always kind of want to entertain? Did you always want it? Like, because, you know, just to do that on camera, on the Internet, it takes that performer's urge, which is, I've always said, like, there's no performer that isn't, that is like free of ego. The notion of a performer that's humble and like bullshit. You, you got into a thing where you were like, everyone in this room should shut up and look at me and listen to me.

Mine wasn't exactly like that. Yeah. Um, I, I, I, I read about this a lot too. Like as a kid,

I totally want to be famous. Like I saw like star search every week. I wanted to be Michelle Kwan. I wanted to be like, I wanted to be Shannon Miller. I want to be a gymnast. I want to be a figurewan. I wanted to be like, I wanted to be Shannon Miller. I wanted to be a gymnast. I want to be a figure skater. I wanted to like, I wanted to be like little Britney Spears on Star Search or go to the

Mickey Mouse Club. I just couldn't sing and I couldn't dance and I had no athletic capability. So I was like, how is this going to happen? So, you know, the world quickly told me like, girl, you're not, what are you going to be famous for? Like not only the world tell me that, but I told that to myself. So those dreams of like ever being like a comedian or famous or anything like that, like I quickly was like, you know what, I'll settle for just being anonymous in a big city

where I can find someone's dick to suck. And I'll do some hair because I also like doing hair. Those are very humble. And I always knew that I like doing hair. I always knew that I love doing hair. Yeah. So that was the kind of like my path because I was like, that's going to be what you're going to do. And really, ultimately, like I had a client who is an incredible comedian and writer and actress and

producer herself Erin Gibson host of the podcast groceries and also yeah so we love Erin and she you know she was in my chair and I started talking about Game of Thrones and I was like you know do you watch that show and I did like this little impromptu little recap and she was like that's a that's a series like what you just did

like that's a series so it was really someone else saying wow like you could like and so when she said that and we put into when she ultimately pitched Game of Thrones I thought she meant like on my phone like in a salon like like I had never been on a set that was like sound speeding action like that was my first time yeah and so I literally learned how to produce, how to write, how to do improv, how to perform every Sunday, you know, for 10 weeks a year for like five years. Wow. Because that was how I got in entertainment. And then when Game of Thrones would be over, I'd go back to the salon and I'd be like,

God, like how do I do more of this? Like, because I think I can write. I think I can do improv. I think I do know how to deliver a line. I can actually memorize a whole bunch of shit really fast and deliver it on cue. And I can also improv even better lines that we use. And sometimes we don't. Like, I just, I learned how to edit.

I learned how to do all of that just like with people way more talented than I was. But just like as a hairdresser. And so then, you know, over time, like those skills got more and more honed. And then, you know, when queer, I came up,

I was like, why not me? Like I, like I was meant for that. Um, and so that was kind of, it wasn't that I was like, and even actually going back to gay of Thrones,

like I did Margaret chose. I did Margaret Cho, like who was like my first comedic idol, like notorious CHO blockbuster 2001. Like that was my first, like, who was, like, my first comedic idol. Like, Notorious E.H.O., Blockbuster, 2001. Like, that was my first, like, ah, like, I love her. That was, like, when I really loved comedy, like, for the first time. Yeah. And when she did Gay of Thrones, she was like, you're meant to be a stand-up comedian.

And I literally fired back immediately, I was meant to be her hairdresser. That's really, like, can I just be your hairdresser? And she was like, come on, bitch. And so to be her hairdresser that's really like can I just be your hairdresser and she's like come on bitch and so I became her hairdresser but it would take a long time for me to like actually you know start going up which I did start getting up like post Gay of Thrones but pre Queer Eye and like actually trying stand up

and but yeah I mean it took me a long time to like get to a place where I was like did you like it? stand up I loved right away. But I didn't. I was like, well, I'll just do like a Gay at Throne style recap of like the Olympic. Like I've just like my favorite like Olympic figure skating event or.

And so that was like all of my stand up for the first like, like years. And then I was like, wait, I need to learn how to like write jokes. Yeah. Just not be funny talking about figure skating and gymnastics maybe not you know I mean it's definitely still part of my set but then I just started like really understanding the craft more like learning

about the craft more like working with better people than I was and like going to comedy shows and like really just immersing myself yeah when you see the people because I mean you know there's you see plenty of sort of okay comedy and it's like oh that i that seems approachable and then you see the people that are really great at it and you're like oh yeah that's that's different that's a real strong art form in my beginning of my comedy career i had to go up after sashir zamata oh

bad like not fun not great for me yeah yeah like you know just seeing someone who's like excellent top of her fucking game uh that was like at the beginning of my career then there was another time further in my career my fucking agent who is still my agent i actually love him so it's fine but he booked me and fucking ali wong on a co-headlining tour, not a tour, but a co-headlining show in 2019, I was not ready for that yet. I was not ready to hold. That's not fair. And if you're going to put me up with Ali Wong, can I

please go first? You really needed to have me first. And I don't know if she had a call time or what, but I was not going first. She was like, I got to go. Or however that got... Maybe it wasn't her, but whoever it fucking was not going first yeah um she's like i got to go or however that got or i don't know maybe it wasn't her but whoever fucking was made a mistake yeah for those poor kids because she probably just was like a master class her set was no notes yeah like just

and it wasn't a new set like she it was like where that was like the third time I'd done that set. And it was like my first hour. It was like I saw my life flash before my eyes like 27 times. Probably my worst performance ever. Like there were jokes that like were silent. After Ali Wong like bringing the fucking house down. But it's those situations that like have made me learn how like when something, if something doesn't hit, when something doesn't't hit that is when you make something hit like i've learned how to get myself out of those positions like from being in really awkward positions for like cutting my teeth like as i learned how to do comedy yeah yeah with the queer

when you got the queer eye job and with the whole team did they just kind of cast you all individually and then throw you out in the field or was there sort of like play date set up so you could there's like a really like a massive chemistry audition yeah like process and were there people that were in that chemistry audition who didn't have it the right chemistry or was it pretty much you guys were the set group and well as lore goes uh from what i've been told because obviously i wasn't like in cast i wasn't like in the rooms of casting but the showrunner whose name is jennifer lane who i love so much she told me that on the first day of our like in-person auditions i think there was like 40 or 50 and it had started with like hundreds

you know through like skype interviews and like, you know, kind of like ANTM ghost style or like America's Next Top Model ghost, like ghosties sort of thing, like in the beginning. So you would go have a meeting and then if you made that meeting, you'd have another meeting. And then if you made that meeting, you would do a Skype. And then if you got through that Skype round, then you

went into like the in-person, like 40 to 50 people. It was like at a hotel over in Glendale where you just saw like 50 fucking gays like m to 50 people it was like at a hotel over in glendale where you just saw like 50 fucking gays like mingling each other to death for the chance to be on the next queer eye yeah um and so uh that was it wasn't that like oh yeah but jennifer has told me that that day that first day at the hotel when she went back into like the the room where like the all the executives were and i guess there was like all like they had headshots of all of us in like little profiles of like all of us there which like i so wish i could go in that room like now i wish

i could so fucking go in that room and like see what they and see what they're like this bitch talks about you are like this bitch bitch is, will not stop talking. But she said that she put, she pulled our five pictures and said like, this is going to be your Fab Five. Like that first day. And after, like we had these like,

like round robin interviews. And I think she said that it was like after that, which was like the first thing of the day, she was like, this is going to be your thing. And,

but obviously, you know, there was a lot of back and forth, but she ultimately was right and we were the Fab five wow that's great yeah was it now i noticed something i mean i've noticed noticed from seeing the original one there is kind of to me almost kind of like a a theoretical sort of difference between, because the first one was, hey, world, get over your homophobia.

Here, you know, here's some, you know, lovely people who are here to help people. And it did seem like the under, sort of the undercurrent of it was a group of helpful, like, right, basically like gay wizards come in and transform someone's life who might actually be kind of homophobic. And there seemed to be that, that homophobia was much more of a sort of unspoken presence in that

original show. And it's does not seem to, you know, it doesn't seem to be as part of this later one. I mean, you guys seem to go to small towns and it's not even necessarily that kind of, you know, pick some rough, grumpy man to do it, you know, to, to, to where I it's, you know, it can be women, it can be all different groups. And was that something that people talked about, you know, as you were getting ready to start the second iteration of it?

Well, it's definitely like the first one was like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. And then they did make a very, you know, intentional decision to make it Queer Eye. Yeah. Like in the second. So like for the Straight Guy definitely was like it was like more than ever. I even forgot that it had that. Yeah. So that was like that was an intentional change,

but it's, it's to me when I think about the first one, I feel like homophobia was spoken to less because it was so prevalent in society that like, that was the, get over your homophobia from just the presence of the show. Like they didn't even need to talk about it. Right.

And, and actually I don't think the network would have been down to be so socially conscious right it was more of like were and and also can i just say that i was like the biggest fan yeah we're right like i watched with my grandparents like i watched with my parents i loved it everything's in i was obsessed i love it was one of those shows too that i feel like got it was such an instant hit that they kind of ran it you know they ran it too much you know and they and then they did a lot of episodes they saturated you know it's and you know it was like who wants to be a millionaire like it became a hit and then it's like oh my

god it's on every night yeah you know and it's enough already and not that i was like enough already with queer eye because what and what was so beautiful about is it and it's still it's what's beautiful about it. It just so it makes you feel so good. It's just such affirming TV and such an affirming thing of just like it's like he had about a show where people are kind to each other, you know. But what I was going to say was, yes, and that is obviously the point. But I mean, I think of like, it was like season one or two in Atlanta with Joe, our comedian. We may not talk about it, but you see, like, if I walk into a room on Queer Eye with like a big group, like you'll see people like be like, you know, major side eye. Like there are people like, so I feel like there's a way.

Especially in the South. And we can still speak so we still speak to that and we still you know i think also being able to have like queer heroes you know women just different people like we can talk more i think we can talk more about like the fullness of our realities now like on this version not to say that they i don't think that makes anything better or worse, but I honestly think that that's more of a reflection of where we are as a society than it was of the show or the producers or the cast. Yeah. Because I think that all of those five would have been, you know,

brave enough, open enough to have any of those conversations that we have now. But like, no one was trying to talk about like, you know, have a conversation like what Karamo is having now. No one's trying to talk about, like, you know, have a conversation like what Karamo's having now. No one was trying to talk about that then. You know, it was like, take the tickets and go see a nice show.

And, you know, your gay bestie gave you the great haircut. And, you know, now you look better. Now you can date. Yeah. But, I mean, I just think that that's where we were at the time. And, like, that was all, like, that people were going, like, just the presence of the show was a big enough breakthrough in and of itself yeah but also like i feel like that sounds like diminishing because it's like the show is amazing like i loved the show but like it was it was important it was but i mean for you know a cable tv show to be important is really something absolutely yeah and david

collins a creator of the show just like i love him he He like, I mean, they have absolutely changed our lives. Yeah. And but I think, you know, when you look back at a lot of media of the time, you can see why that was the absolute furthest limits. Yeah. That anyone was going to be, you know, okay, going to. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Now, I mean, because

you, like I said before, you've got you've got, let me pages and pages of information. Now, I mean, because you, like I said before, you've got, you've got, let me. Pages and pages of information. No, the, you have your own grooming line. My own hair care line. Your own hair care line. Yes. And then a pet.

Yummers. A pet's line, yummers. Yes. And did, was this an ambition of yours originally? I mean, does everybody that gets into hair think someday my name's going to be on conditioner? No. Cause that was like so far outside my wildest dreams.

Like I didn't think that was like possible for me. But with beauty, like, I mean, Aveda, like horse rock founded by horse rocker, Sully Hirschberger, Frederick for Kai, but also soon, like in addition, like pre Margaret Cho, John Paul Mitchell or whatever. sounded like Horst Reckelbacher founded by Horst Reckelbacher Sally Hershberger Frederick Fakai

Vidal Sassoon like in addition like pre-Margaret Cho John Paul Mitchell or whatever yeah he wasn't and like Jose Iber

like those weren't I mean like they're amazing but like my my oh they're not your faves who my favorite was

was Sally Vidal Sassoon like the work that they were doing at that time I mean you know Sally did like the Rachel she did she did Meg Ryan's like iconic shag. But also as soon,

especially with like those really crisp, clean bobs and just like his intentionality on shape. And like they really inspired me from like a very early age. And Horst Ruckelbacher and his work on a beta really inspired me. I mean, I was just like naturally really into it, but I've always been like a product queen. Like I've always like love to like in the shower, like I'll turn the water off after

the shower and just like read the back of the bottles. My mom was like, what are you doing? I'm like reading the bottles. Like I, I've always been like that. Um, so, but no, I mean, I didn't think I would get to do it for myself, but I think really what it was is I was offered like a really huge, like life-changing hair care deal with like a very major beauty conglomerate that I literally want to fist myself to death

for not taking, to be honest. What a way to go. Yeah, in 2019. But basically, you know, I have like, I'm a hair aficionado. Like I've used every freaking line, like under the sun. I've been doing hair since I was a teenager.

I'm 36. I've been doing hair for a long time. And so there's just like so much plastic. And also I was just like, I used to like overdraft my checking account to get this one line of shampoo and conditioner that I really like. And when I started learning about formulas and like ingredient quality and also like supply chain, I was like, oh my God, like you're just fucking paying like $75 like for a bottle. Like it's not the, it's not that the, it's not that that formula punches, you know,

that much better than like a $20 formula. Like as I started learning about it. So then with this particular company, I was like, I'm down to clown. Like I like this, but like, here's the deal.

I'm really worried about plastic. Like there is just, cause when query started, I was eating like so much plastic, just so much shit sent, like sent to me all the time. Like try this, try this,

try this. And I was really concerned about, everything was, just every fucking thing was plastic. I was like, why aren't we just, can we break, can I get it? Can a bitch get some recycled aluminum around here?

Can I get a glass jar? Can we get a tablet that you put in a thing? Is there something that we can do to minimize our reliance on plastic? So that's what I pitched. I was like, I will sell my soul to you, someone who like, are you my fave products? No. Are. I was like, I will sell myself. I will sell my soul to you. Who's someone who like, are you my favorite products?

No. Are you my like, no, but the number was insane. And then I was like, but can we like pivot the formula like a tiny bit? And could we like try to like lessen this reliance on plastic? Could we at least what about some like recycled non-virgin plastic? Like, yeah. And there was just no movement. Like, and I was just like, and then I was like, you know what?

I'm sick of fucking making money for other people yeah i'm sick of like doing shit for other people that i don't believe in that isn't the way i want to do it and i was like i think i can make formulas that are actually like luxurious and sustainable they're luxurious and they're affordable like because i once i put that all together i was like wait you can still make a profit and still make money without price gouging people and then make, like, great formulas that are universally efficacious. Because there's just so much, like, marketing and hair care that's confusing. And I'm like, it's actually doesn't all have to be that confusing. It's like, do you want your hair bigger or smaller?

Do you want to enhance your texture or do you want to, like, change your texture? Like, but I feel like people just get so confused. And so I was like, I just I was like, I think I can do this better. Um, so I was like, and I'm going to bet on my fucking self. So then I started JVN here and it's been the wildest ride. I love it.

I love it. So, I mean, is it, is it seen as a success in the industry? Yes, it is. We're in Sephora nationwide and we are,

you know, our sales are really great. I am so proud. I mean, our team is so incredible and our chemists are incredible. Like our team is so good. And I are, you know, our sales are really great. I am so proud. I mean, our team is so incredible. And our chemists are incredible. Like our team is so good. And I really, as much as I, you know, wish I would have had those multiple seven figures

from those people those years ago, that would have been nice. It's just like taking that and then just like sold my soul and then, you know, come and done this. But that's okay. You know, you live and you learn. I hear so many times a day that my formulas have changed people's hair, have like allowed them to learn how to style their curls that they never knew how to style, have let them like allow them to like grow their hair out because like their ends aren't fucked up anymore

or like allow them to like find their confidence or like allow them to find a way to like, they want to style their hair for their self-expression, not because of like getting validation from someone else. When I hear that stuff, I'm like, this is like, this is what I came for. Like I came here to better myself, but really because hair is where I learned to like self-express and learn that like, I'm not styling myself for this person to think I'm hot or fuckable. I'm styling myself. Cause like, this is what brings me joy. And it's the process. It's like, it's the, it's like it's the I want to try this I want to learn

how to style my hair this way then trying succeeding or failing it's that process like that builds confidence and that's more than stand up that's more than being on TV

that's no I didn't say that oh alright but well you said that's why I'm here but no in hair care I see

that's why I'm in hair care that's my mission in hair care I understand but I think it's actually funny. My social media manager tried to make me list my priorities the other day. And like in terms of like passion. Get off my back.

And I was like. You're paying them. They shouldn't give you homework. Well, he just wanted to know like in his head. But it's like I feel like I'm at a point in my career where like I only do things that I'm really, really passionate about. Yeah. And. Why not? Yeah. Like I'm not doing shit that's like I'm at a point in my career where like I only do things that I'm really, really passionate about. Yeah. And why not? Yeah.

Like I'm not doing shit that's like I'm not really fucking moved by. So podcasting like so comedy podcasting JVN hair like those and actually Yummers as well. Like Yummers is like really near and dear to my heart. I'm really passionate about pet care, animal care. I also got to do with Antony. And so that's been really fun. But I think Yummers is like the thing that is different for me about Yummers as opposed to other things. Like I definitely never thought like I definitely

always wanted to be a multiple pet parent. Like I always wanted to be like not on hoarders, but I've always wanted like lots of cats and dogs. Yeah. And I accomplished that. I understand. I understand. But really like Liza Mionelli, she's my second oldest cat. She was a pan Luke survivor. And like 80% of cats or something like that, that get pan Luke die when they're little and the ones that survive, they get so many antivirals and all these like medicines when they're little that like messes up their stomachs. Yeah.

So I just literally was like drowning in cat diarrhea for like two years. I was like in and out of all these vets and like vet nutritionists. Hello, Hollywood. Liza was like, literally when I look at her, I'm like, my love for her is so deep because like,

like she shit on my chest in the middle of the night. I mean, I was, it was on top of a comforter. Normally that costs good money. But she, she literally like her bowels were,

her inflammatory bowel syndrome was so intense from the complications from her stuff. Poor thing, like, literally couldn't help it. Like, you could tell she didn't feel good. And she doesn't know what's going on. Well, she couldn't get to the litter box. It was just, like, so explosive. But it was through that that I started learning a lot more about animal nutrition, supplements, like, things to balance an animal. like things to balance an animal, like, and also like how some like diets are formulated to be complete for animals, but sometimes that still leaves like holes that they have like an extra

situation. Like if you, if you have stomach issues, if you have like a pet issues, if you have like joint or pet who says that for issues or like joint issues, sometimes like you do need. And so I was adding probiotics. I was adding like all these other things into the food anyway. And then I was posting about all that, that all the time. And then I met our other co-founder of Yummers. And so that was kind of how Yummers started, but that was just kind of like organically and naturally because I was like going through it anyway. But like, I think pet food, I became passionate about by accident from having like a sick as shit cat that i was like determined to figure out like how for to like not have her have diarrhea yeah then we found out liza mionelli's a man um but but

after i named i was like it's fine like we're keeping the name we're keeping your name right liza mionelli was assigned male at birth exactly hard to sex a cat liza mionelli stands my my i have a three-year-old uh and her 22 year old and a three-year-old i just recently got married to somebody that had a child already and i'm adopting now our daughter and she's three and her favorite bit her favorite doll is a walmart doll that somebody gave her that has it's like one of those kind of realistic ones and ones. And it has a little headband, which I hate on babies. I hate, you know, headbands with a little bow. But because she had a, I mean, she, this girl latches on to boys in her preschool class.

And then, like, Glenn closes them. Oh, good for her. Oh, it's like, there there's like, like school just started again. And we were, we're saying there was a boy and we said that she was obsessed with, like there was a bouncy house at school at like a carnival thing. And he left and she was standing in the bouncy house going like, his name is Luca. And she's like, where's my Luca? My Luca for 10 minutes.

Her mom and I just wandered away. It was embarrassing. And after a while, like, I'm in show business. I know when something's performative. She was doing, she was, it was a show. She was like reveling in her, in her, you know, glorious abandon. Like, oh, my Luca. Although, and I drive to school, like,

are you excited to see Luca? She says, no. Luca said, I'm not playing with you anymore. He said, no, no, no. All right, so Luca's- We got to get her in voice lessons. But she- No, we got to take that spurn.

Baby Justin. Baby Justin. It's a little obvious, you know, it's a dress. What's her name? What's your daughter's name? Cornelia or Coco. We call her Coco.

I'm firmly becoming stage parent now. Yes. Coco, we got to transmute this pain into purpose of this rejection by fucking Luca.

No, we do. I don't know why you're laughing. I know that the strike is serious, but I think voice lessons are probably permissible. Okay.

Yeah, we can't talk about acting. Yeah, she can start writing songs. Well, or just like, really, we got to get into our diaphragm. Let's get into that belly singing. Oh, God. Now, I have a question. Yes. You said you have a 22-year-old.

Yes, a 17-year-old daughter and then a three-year-old daughter. 22, 17, three. Yeah, yeah. Are you, as a childless person myself, Yes, yes. I would just assume that having a 22-year-old and a 17-year-old, are you as a childless person myself yes I would just assume that having a 22 year old and a 17 year old

you'd be like I'm so close but then you're like I would like to go back to starting go yeah

no is that a thing that happens when you're when they're about to fly the rooster like no I want a new baby are you stressed oh no

it's a lot more years I mean we've been together we got married we've been together a couple of years now so I have time but I definitely well A I like being a dad it's the best thing I do. Literally everything else is nonsense and bullshit.

See, that's how I can tell I'm not a parent. Yeah. And that's how I can tell I don't want to be a parent. Yeah, yeah. Because there ain't no fucking kid that could be more important than what I'm trying to do right now. I'm sorry. It's just not. I'm trying to change the world out here.

I don't have time for your shit and your piss and your fucking mouth. But I do like, I do like to take them for like a few hours. An hour, yeah, yeah. Or even like, I'm actually, my niece is gonna come

like stay with us for like a weekend for the first time because like her bestie from my hometown like moved to Austin and she's all like giving Luca but like, you know,

besties are my best friend. Yeah. There's a few kids who I like. Yeah. Actually, the president of JVN here, she has two really cute kids yeah one of them goes to gymnastics she also does those really cute like um like lunchbox insta stories like of like when they when so there's something about those like lunchbox insta stories like the lunch that like kind of made me like those kids like i don't know what like i don't know why but i'm just like oh

my god they're cute yeah so like i feel like if she was ever like you know what i'm gonna have i need or like me and my husband need to go out for a night like where we went like i could take a kid for like a day yeah you know i could do a weekend yeah uh there's like six kids who i like um maybe like eight well that's when people say like i don't like all of them do you like kids I said yeah some you know yeah because some you know but I mean they're all fucking like just I don't I don't fucking like it when they just don't say like hi yeah can you say hi I I mean I always made a point with my kids just you know because the people that let their kids hide behind their leg and say, oh, you know, she's shy, whatever. No, you got it. You got to interface with the world.

I can already say hello. Somebody's talking to you. I can already hear those parents like in the comments. Yeah. Screaming about whatever. No, whatever. And that's why I just I can't even I can't. Yeah.

So but I am really loving that you can. Oh, thank you. Good for you. Thank you very much. Three times. Good for you. I have said this before and it took a little bit for me to get to that, get to this. But I have always like, and I'm going to try and do a book deal thing because there is something like it's not a coincidence that I was a talk show sidekick, that I was number two.

Like, I don't want to be number one. Number one's a lot of work. And especially it's a lot of boring meetings and shit. You know, it's like. I'll say. Yeah. of boring meetings and shit you know it's like i'll say yeah i'm by the way uh jonathan is wearing a tiara with a big number one but i also feel like girl you're delusional i mean like i guess like technically in the role like you were like i guess i i understand like that's still like

it's really giving hardcore number one vibes you know well i i mean thank you and but but it but it isn't like i like being like i i have done stand-up and i didn't enjoy it that much because i like being on stage with people i like being part of an ensemble i don't really need the solo stuff i don't need stuff from strangers when i did conan i was trying to make the cameraman laugh you know the audience didn't matter so much to me because and especially like if trying to make the cameraman laugh, you know, the audience didn't matter so much to me because and especially like if I could make the cameraman laugh they've heard all my bullshit so if I can break through

like their crusty exteriors, I feel like okay, I'm doing something, you know and that's what made me happy but I I have an intrusive thought yeah my mom is, I didn't say this before,

my mom's like really attracted to Conan. Oh, wow. That's like her person. Wow. Just so that we're clear. And also, I know that earlier you mentioned

that you were heterosexual. Yes. Have you ever been like a little shivered by Conan or do you just like know him too well? I just, I also feel the affliction

of being shivered by Conan. Like, he's just like, it's like really tall. Yeah. And I think it's like the jaw. It's like, it's like, it's like the, it's like the face and the jaw and the tallness. I'm like, if I saw him in a steam room, like for sure. Yeah. Like absolutely.

Right. Like absolutely. And to be honest, you too. I'm just, I'm really trying to get over here. I just think you're gorgeous. Irish, Irish potato kind of. But he's never, he's never shivered your timbers there's too much knowledge

there's just too much knowledge what about at the very beginning where you're like no was there ever a time where he showed up for you so emotionally that you were like I'm not physically attracted to you but I'm like emotionally turned on oh I love him

and I always would say you know he was definitely the daddy like emotionally turned on that you, I love him. I love him. And I mean, and I always would say, you know, I, you know, I, I, I, he was definitely the daddy and I was the mom.

Like, that was just the way that it kind of, that it, that it kind of was like, he would be, you know, he was, he was in charge and he kind of ran things,

but like, I was the one that people would come to with complaints or when they needed kind of a little bit of comfort or whatever, you know. Your side hug gives me that. Oh, thank you. I literally felt so safe at our side hug. Oh, gosh, nice. I was like, nook.

But yeah, but I like being number two. So I like having, because I, left to my own devices, I don't know what the fuck to do with myself. That all comes from a place of codependence, having because I left to my own devices I don't know what the fuck to do with myself that all comes from a place of of codependence of being like of being around people that are so loud about what they need that what I need doesn't enter into it very often that's me is it yeah I'm well I try not I try to check that part of myself but yeah I've been having an intrusive thought ever since the last one I said about how I want to do fan fiction of like you and Conan in an alternate

universe that didn't fall in love. Right. Right. Right. I think that's just because like gays, we just want every pair of men to want to fuck each other. Sure. I don't know why I,

I think I know why. Oh, it's just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So maybe you are a little tiny, you know? You're like 0.003% curious, questioning. I mean, you could say that about anybody. It's like you put two humans together. You're like, what would it look like if they were fucking?

I mean, pretty. Yeah, sure. Pretty. I mean, you didn't watch America's Next Top Model, right? In the early days, I did. Okay, do you remember season two with Joanna House that won? Joanna won? I don't remember,

but I did watch it because we used to, I think the first four seasons. Were amazing, incredible. Actually, I was a first 10 girl myself, but here's the thing. Did you guys watch? Okay, we're really vibing.

Yeah, you watched. Yeah, too. Okay, so do you remember the top four photo shoot where they had to do the nude shoot on Lake Como in Italy and they had to to use each other? They did really long extensions.

I do remember that picture. And it was black and white and they had to use each other's bodies to just... Lock. Yes. I need you and Conan to recreate. In fact, should you and Conan... Would that go so viral on TT or IG

if you guys recreated a picture from, like, a, like, like, all of, like, like, a picture from each, like, or should, why a picture of me? Jeez,

and what if it was, like, every picture from all 24 cycles? And, and, and, and, like,

on IG, like, on the poll, it could be, like, who did it better? Like, who is America's Next Top Model this week?

Like, did you do it better? And then, like, the top two photos would be, like, you guys going up against each other. But Joanna had these,

like, long brown extensions. And I think she was in the picture with Shandy. I remember these names. April and Mercedes were together and it was Shandy and Joanna. And that late Como, I'm literally getting the chills just

thinking about it. It was the most gorgeous and backed for social. Mark this down. And if this gets cut out of the podcast, I'm coming back here and I'm going to fucking cuss all you guys out here. I'm going to fucking rip these fuckers. This doesn't make the fucking edit. I and I'm going to fucking cuss all you guys out here. I'm going to fucking rip these fuckers. If this doesn't make the fucking edit, I swear to fucking, I'm going to come fucking upload. Yeah, yeah.

So, since I'm guessing that you probably won't shoot that reenactment, but I'm guessing you won't. If you could take the photo and cut out their faces and replace- And put ours?

Yeah, that would make me really happy for social. And if that could be some sort of like, but not, it's like you and Conan. It makes no sense for me and you obviously.

Right, right, right. But that's what I would like. And we could be multiples. Like there could be some sort of like, but not, it's like you and Conan, it makes no sense for me and you. Right, right, right. But that's, that's what I would like. And we could be multiples. Like there could be five of me and. Well, cause like I, I could be both April and Mercedes in the other photo.

Yeah. Like if it was me holding myself. Oh. You know, I got to interview Mercedes. Says so much. I got to interview Mercedes on the pod years ago. Uh-huh.

Um, I fucking love that episode so much. I fucking love Mercedes. Yeah. I still follow her on Instagram. I fucking love that episode so much. I fucking love Mercedes. I still follow her on Instagram. I'm really, to me, to me, Mercedes, top first runner up cycle two, and then Kaylin,

first runner up cycle four. She lost to Naima. Those to me are the top two first runner ups in America's next top model history. It's controversial. I'm going to say it. Do you think they deserve to win?

No. No. Sorry, girls. I think that Joanna. She went on to be a big famous model, though, didn't she? Kind of. She had a career. Yeah.

She had a career. She has a career yeah yeah she had a career um she has a career um uh i think that mercedes walk was much better her the walk was much better in the fashion show that that's hands down but to me joanna's final picture and the body of work i think they made the right decision um i hate to say it's true but I do do you disagree okay and then first cycle four with Naima I think Naima

was the correct winner yeah yeah not to name drop again but I did this like commercial for cakes in late 2018 and I was like in Brooklyn and I was minding my own business

and then I was like looking at the monitor and I was like I think I started talking about what I think about America's Next Top Model winners in history and then I looked at the monitor and I was like is that Na I started talking about what I think about America's Next Top Model winners in history. And then I looked at the monitor and I was like,

is that Naima? And then they were like, yeah. Naima was an extra on the commercial and I was like, I'm going to shit my pants. Wow. Can I sit at the table with her? Can we change everything so that I can... And she was so exhausted

by me. Because I asked her if I could talk to her. No, she did not follow back. She was not into it did not follow back she was not into it she was a dream she did not she was not vibing me at all she was like this fucking i don't want to talk about antm get fucked like i'm an extra on your fucking dumb commercial and i want antm like yeah yeah i want to shove my foot up your ass she was not feeling it and i was like whereas i was like oh my god and your identical twin i remember all about that and yeah she was not not vibing oh wow but i still love her i think maybe she i mean she took pictures of me but the energy was like i'm doing you a favor yeah yeah and she was something i an intrusive thought that i had earlier and i want to make sure that i ask

it um is that i mean you you know, you grew up in a fairly hostile environment, you know, and, and then you, you know, you strayed, you went, you left home, you came a little undone and you got back on track. And really, I mean, that just kept going and going, going. What do you think? I mean, there's obviously some sort of inner strength in you. And, and have you ever been able to name that? Do you know what it is and what it is that keeps you from straying, you know, from fucking up?

I, I think I, I get that question sometimes. And I think it's really that like, damn it. I thought I was the first. no, but first of all,

like I do fuck up. Yeah. Like I, it might not look the same that like, damn it. I thought I was the first. no, but first of all, like I do fuck up. Yeah. Like I, it might not look the same that it looked. Sure. You know, it might be to the same degree. Right.

But I still struggle and I still fuck up with things all the time. And, um, so I don't think that you're ever, I always like think like, you know, your self acceptance and like your healing is never like, well,

tied that up in a box. And I think anyone who's ever been in recovery knows. And not, not that I'm an all the way sober queen, I'm like a harm reduction queen, but we always have to be in relationship with like if we're taking care of ourselves or like our stuff, our trauma, our stuff.

Like whenever you think that you've like fully got it figured out, honey, like that's when like the universe is going to bring you to your knees. So. And you just, or for me personally, it's been like, wow, I've really learned that lesson. And then a year later, I'm like, man, man, I fucking learned that lesson again real hard,

you know, or deeper or whatever, you know, it's the same lesson. And then it just I don't know this. Like, again, it's a difference of degree. Like the fuck ups become smaller. Yeah. And less traumatic and less upsetting and less disruptive which is really another way of saying like it's on a spectrum because you know sometimes it's like you're it's like you know what was the thing about you and it's like i think it's not it's almost like a

binary thing or it's like not binary because there could be any answer but it's like saying it's like what's the one thing but it wasn't one because like it's like i think my relationship with my my mom and my stepdad like their relationship played a huge role in my ability to recover and heal. Like they had a secure functioning relationship. Like my stepdad was, you know, 28 years sober when he died. I grew up like outside of 12 step meetings, like coloring coloring books and shit, like waiting. So I would like hear stuff.

Like I was like, my mom, you know, didn't make me afraid of asking for help as far as like therapy or like asking for mental health care. Like, you know, I also just so happened to go into an industry which was hairdressing that like was my North Star. Like I had friends in salons. I had clients that cared about me. So even no matter how fucking far off the rails I got, which was very far, there were I had community. And so are there other people who had like more resources than me and had the same issues and didn't make it? For sure.

So I'm not saying that like it was only because of my support, but I am saying that like I'm a white person. I come from money. Like I had, you know, social capital that allowed me to to have some of that resilience. I see. And so I want to be really clear about that. You know, I mean, it's not like, so, but I think that it's, there's so many, I've learned so many lessons that I had so much, even though I did have merciless bullying, um, you know, I was sexually abused.

I have dealt with eating disorders. I've dealt with drug addiction. I've, um, been very involved in sex work. I've, you know, I've, I have seen a lot. I've been through a lot, but I also like had a foundation that did show up for me. And I also think that like, there was a child, there's like a child part within me that like, even through all of those things that I've been through, I'm still, and I don't know why I'm able to do this, but I am, I'm still able to see the world in that, in my, in those eyes. Like we're in us nationals right now for gymnastics. Like women's night one is tonight and night two is on Sunday.

I will fucking tackle you like Adam Sandler and fucking the water boy. Like get off my mom. If you try to like, I will not be taking selfies with anybody. Like I, and that is the same obsession that I had in like 92 watching like Kim Zameskal and Shannon Miller figure skating, gymnastics like rocks

I'm obsessed with rocks geodes, love, flowers, obsessed insects, obsessed, like I've always had certain things that when I was little I loved and when I see those things now I'm still just like whoa I just think that is so, and like on my podcast on getting curious, I've always loved to learn but if I'm still just like whoa like I just think that is so and like on my podcast like I'm getting

curious like I've always loved to learn like I've always like but if I'm not naturally curious about it like math I don't give a fuck right but like if it's like biology I'm really interested in biology I'm really interested in nature I'm really interested in history yeah I'm really interested in like how things work um so like engineering yeah um and also like net like natural history like earth history excuse like earth history, excuse me, earth science. I'm really into like geography. So like those, I mean, I've covered like anything under any of those things I've just said, like history, science, most sciences that aren't too mathy. And like, like really like any social studies I have covered, like almost every

single like academic vertical, and I just love getting to learn, but it feels very childlike in what I'm learning because I am still... It's for the joy of it. And I'm still just blown away by how interesting things are. And I also think that another piece of it is when you have

survived sexual abuse and meth addiction and sexual compulsivity, I'm, like, typically so grateful to, like, not either be in that space in my life or feeling, like, trapped where I come from. Because, like, those were both felt like different sorts of prisons, you know? So to be in control of myself and have the access and the resources to, like, get to do what I want to do and get to like learn what I want to learn about and then get to like share that and hopefully help people along

the way is like I'm so fucking excited about that yeah because I could be literally dead yeah um and so yeah I think that's like why I am able to do that. Yeah, I do want to mention the podcast because I was given this thing, this thing. You have Getting Curious is the name of your podcast. It's been on for eight years. Then I hear it's evolving. We have Curious Now, which is about current events. Pretty Curious, which is about beauty and grooming.

And then there was one other one too, wasn't there? Ask JVN. Ask JVN. Do you remember Talk Sex with Sue Johansson? No. Oh, the Canadian lady. Yeah, she just passed away,

but she was like a sex issue. So Ask JVN is giving that. It's like all your nastiest sex questions. Like how do I prepare for anal? I'm scared of anal. How do I get into it? How do I talk to my partner about it? Can I have a three-way with my ex?

Like, you know, what do I do if I get an STI? Like, it's like all the sex, all the relationship, all the juicy, juicy. That's on Ask JBN. She's for adults only and she's behind a paywall. So that's for Ask JBN. Are these different or are they all just sort of like different flavors of the beginning, the getting curious?

They're like in my getting curious universe. I see, I see. So getting curious, the main main i'll start with her so she's every wednesday and she is eight years old we've done like 350 or something so episodes um because for the first like three years i did it bi-weekly because i was like doing it alone and then i took a little time off when i was doing queer eye but now we've been like weekly since like 2000 and like the middle of 18 or something. So I'm like 350 episodes. And so then part of that was,

is that like getting curious really is like my passion project. It's like what I want to learn about. Like in the last five weeks, I learned all about killer whales. I learned about all the, like literally all things, killer whales,

all the different ecotypes, what they eat, who's in danger, who's not in danger. Like every single like killer whale wives tale. Like I learned all about, all about it. And I got not in danger. Like every single like killer whale wives tale, like I learned all about it. And I got to interview the scientists.

They literally like harvest whale shit from the ocean. And then they can tell like sex, age, if it's pregnant, health issues, what pod it came from. So fascinating. Like, so all things killer whales I learned about with her. The week before that, I learned all about the science of sleep with this neuroscientist who studies sleep. That was like a Mythbusters episode

where it's like every single like is it true if I drink a bunch of alcohol before bed like it's gonna fuck me up what about if I like smoke weed before bed what about like can you really like get over a bad night's sleep if you miss your sleep can you really never get it like I learned oh man and then we before that was all about the paparazzi and like the origins of the paparazzi

that like who the paparazzi are like what all the internal dynamics of that and also I did not know. I thought I knew. I did not fucking know. I was, I actually almost with that episode, because one of our producers pitched it, and I was like,

yeah, I think I'm curious, because that's kind of my rule on getting curious. And 80% of the time, it's like, I was the one, but then obviously we've got a team, so the Sunday Kitchen, really good ideas. So that was paparazzi. And the week before, that was all about parasites. And I was so scared of parasites, but I obviously we've got a team. So like the Sunday Kitchen, really good ideas. So that was paparazzi. And the week before that was all about parasites.

And I was so scared of parasites, but I'm not fucking scared of parasites. That was like fun. Like that's how all over the place we are. And like in history, like I, like some of my favorites were like, I interviewed this like historian who studies like the victims of, the queer victims of the Nazis. So he's like a historian who like really studies like queer, queer Germany,

speaking of Germany. Yeah. Extensively. His name is Dr. Jake Newsome. Obsessed with him. Dr. Stephen Thrasher. I learned all about like how viruses

throughout history like affect classes differently. Yeah. He has a book about the viral underclass. I learned all about monkey pox with him. It's fascinating stuff.

It's great. I love that it is so widespread. Like you want to learn about sea turtles. You want to learn about HIV, girl. I got you. So we've really, I love that it is so widespread like you want to learn about sea turtles you want to learn about HIV girl I got you so we've really run the gamut every single one of those I'm like okay yeah I actually would like to hear about that

also the abortion one you guys Dr. Jackie Antonovich that one I actually get chills thinking about it like that shit Dr. Jackie Antonovich history of abortion whoa like whoa major that one's like so good if you want to like really get it on that like fuck but like not get it on

and also just be like whoa we're scared because these justices yeah are unhinged yeah but then I was kind of getting curious it's like that's kind of like me shoving down the throats of the people like what like I want to learn about you know and I got an audience for that people like it but I was like why don't you do like a beauty one that's more of like you know, and I got an audience for that. People like it. But I was like, why don't you do like a beauty one? That's more of like, you know,

because I've learned so much about the beauty industry. Like I, like I talked to founders and other hairdressers and other like makeup artists. I mean, just like all the time. Cause I've like become a part of the beauty industry in such a different way. And I've learned so much about it. So like, I wanted to share that. I want to like talk more about beauty. I just like, I kind of miss being in the salon. So it's like, that's kind of what pretty curious is for. And then curious now is like, I'm so much more aware of so many more issues and so many more experts and what's going on in the world because of getting curious that I want to be able to keep up on those issues and also like leave you off the little like sorbet palette cleanser.

So it's not just like how everything's fucked up, but like these are the people that you can help actionably. Like if you don't have the bandwidth, like this is what you can do. This is who you can donate to. This you can volunteer for. This is what you can share about on your social. So it's like more actionable. And then I already told you what AskJBN is.

It's like slut hour. Yeah. So it's really just kind of like more fully branching out and getting to like, we built such an incredible community within Getting Curious that it's like we wanted to be able to like, I kind of wanted to be able to branch out

and do more while still learning, but be able to like kind of grow our audience. So we're really excited for like our new evolution. Okay. That's great. Thank you. I got to let you go because I mean, I could stay for another hour, but the final question of this, it's what have you learned?

And I mean, do you have kind of a guiding principle that, you know, any one or, you know, that you can share with people? Yeah. I always kind of say the same thing. So if you like listen to a lot of my interviews. You're gonna be like I know what you're about to say. But it's true and I really feel this. It's like the most important relationship you'll ever have.

Is the one you have with yourself. And then sometimes people be like yeah but community is so important. But it's like you don't know if you need community. Or if you need support. If you don't have a clear relationship with yourself. Like if you think you always got to pull it up by the bootstraps. And you can't ask for help. Like that's not a very clear relationship with yourself. Like if you think you always got to pull it up by the bootstraps and you can't ask for help, like that's not a very clear relationship with yourself.

Yeah. So I think like the space to slow down and focus on your relationship with yourself is like the most important thing we'll do. Great. Well, this has been really a joy. I love you so much. This has been so much fun. I can't wait to see the A&TM redo pictures of you and Conan. I'm really, and so my mom.

We're on them right now. The guys at the lab, they're already doing it. Well, Jonathan Van Ness, good luck. Thank you so much. And thank you all of you for listening. And I'll be back next week with more of this. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Dougherty and engineered by Rich Garcia.

Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, with assistance from Maddy Ogden. Research by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts. And do you have

a favorite question you always like to ask people? Let us know in the review section. Can't you tell my love's a-growing? Can't you feel

it ain't a-showing? Oh, you must be a-knowing. I've got a big, big love. This has been a Team Coco production.