The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Loren Bouchard

Episode Date: October 15, 2019

Animator, writer, and director Loren Bouchard (Dr. Katz, Bob’s Burgers) talks with Andy Richter about growing up in a family of blue collar artists, why bartending is perfect preparation for working in production, coming alive through gratitude, and the horror element that got cut while developing Bob’s Burgers. Plus, Loren shares why he’d like to find success by stepping away from the workshop.This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp (www.betterhelp.com/threequestions code: THREEQUESTIONS), LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com/threequestions) and The Hilarious World of Depression podcast.

Hi there, this is Andy Richter, and you are listening to The Three Questions. My guest today, Lauren Bouchard, the creator of Bob's Burgers and of, what was the other one with Dr. Katz? Home Movies, Dr. Katz. Yeah, yeah, Home Movies, Dr. Katz. Animated television. Lots of, didn't, what was the other one with Dr. Katz? Dr. Katz. Yeah, yeah. Home movies, Dr. Katz. Animated television. Lots of, what was the early ones?

What do they call it? Squiggle vision? Mm-hmm. Squiggle vision, yeah. Yeah, it moved. Yeah. It was shaky. Yeah.

It was animated shaky cam. We were sure we had to move something because we didn't know how to make people walk or we weren't interested in to make people walk or we didn't, we weren't interested in like a lot of action, you know, it was basically going to be talking heads. So we were sure something had to move. So there was this idea, you know, just keep the, keep everything squiggling. Right.

Right. And we, and it worked, you know, more or less we did, um, put it on the big screen. It was like a comedy central arranged to to have shorts in front of movies for a hot second. And we went to the premiere at like a General Cinemas in Framingham, Mass. And those of us that sat in the front row were actually nauseous. Oh,

really? Yeah. Squiggle vision on the big screen. It was too much. Yeah. I could see that. Yeah. Well,

it's, I think the same thing with like the shaky cam on, on TV, you know, like on your CSIs or whatever would be nauseating in a big screen. I think you're probably right. Yeah. So this is a relatively new endeavor, this podcast.

But the notion behind it, I don't know. Did I explain it to you at all? Three questions. Three questions. They are, where do you come from? Yeah. Where are you going? Yeah.

What have you learned? I'm so nervous about all of them. Why? I don't know. That gave me a stomachache. Why? I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. We'll see. But here's the thing. You create some of the most tender television in the world, in history. I mean, you were one of the first people I wanted to have on here. Number one, because you're one of the first people I wanted to have on here. Number one, because you're one of my favorite people to talk to. And because I've never heard you talk places.

And to have created this show that means so much to so many people, I feel like you should be out there blabbing. Well, you'll see. You'll see why in a second. All right. You're good. You're a real salesman. Thanks a lot, buddy. Yeah. Look'll see why in a second. All right. You're good. You're a real salesman.

Thanks a lot, buddy. Yeah. Look, when you start a podcast, you burn off the first couple, I think. You don't even have to. That's right. This one doesn't even have to air. That's right. You'll learn from this, and then you'll apply it.

Kelly Ripa, of all people, if I can name drop here, told me. And it's probably a common saying, but her mother told her, kids are like pancakes. You always ruin the first one. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's not far from true.

No, I mean, you know, and yeah, and podcasts even more so. Podcasts even more so. So the first one, where do you come from? I know you're a New Yorker. No. Oh, you're not. Boston. Oh, Boston.

That's right. I mean, I was born in New York. That's where I first? Boston. Oh, Boston. That's right. I mean, I was born in New York. That's where I first met you was in New York. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Born in New York, then mostly raised in the Boston area and actually started my professional career in the Boston area and then moved to New York, had dinner with you. Right, right.

And had dinner with me and that was where I met. What about your folks? What did they do? What type of people were they? I'm very much my, to answer the question, where do I come from? I really am my parents' kid. It's interesting now as I get to be, you know, an old fart to look back and see how much I'm my parents' kid. My mom, from New York, Jewish, Brooklyn, her parents were immigrants.

She was a writer, always knew she wanted to do that. I think she was very driven, you know, got education, kind of got out of Brooklyn, but then really married down when she met my dad. And, you know, her folks were not happy. He's from Nashville, New Hampshire, and French Canadian, you know. So not a Jew. Not a Jew. His people were Catholic. And he was a real artist, like a bohemian who was ready to just be poor his whole life. And he was just going to be an artist, a painter. And he came from a big family. And yeah, he and his brothers were real fuck-ups. And his family was a mess.

Or not fuck-ups, but they were blue-collar artists, which is, I think, a part of the American story that doesn't get told that often. It's underrepresented. Yeah, yeah. Because I know, I mean, coming from Chicago, I knew a lot of people like that, a lot of people that just kind of like,

and when you're a blue collar artist somewhere, you're just doing it because you've got to do it. I mean, and then, you know, like if you're a sculptor, you're also doing body work. Yes. You know, that kind of thing. Yeah, you have no choice. You are truly doing this because you have no choice and you don't really have prospects. Yes. That's the other thing.

You're not necessarily ever going to, and you know that going in. So it's an odd coin of, you know, I think it's beautiful and I admire it and I think it's informed, I think it's informed me a lot. One question, because for me, I don't know that if I had stayed in Chicago, like if that I hadn't, for whatever reason, been in possession of something that got me to that allowed me to do this professionally for a long time, for a blessedly long time and have a successful career. I don't know that if that hadn't happened for me, that I'd be still one of those people at age 52 doing improv in Chicago. And I wonder the same thing with you. If you, this sort of working in show business and creating television shows hadn't worked out for you, do you think you'd still be as much of an artist as you are today?

That's a great question. I don't know the answer. I joke a lot about how I'm always ready to go back to bartending. You know, that's like my shorthand for just kind of, hey, I can fall back on that. Right, right, right. And fuck it.

Yeah, yeah. Who gives a shit? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And it's possible, yeah, that for me in Boston, it might have been, yeah, the restaurant business maybe would have expanded to fill and I would have, yeah, maybe managed a place for a few years. Well, and that also too, cooking and food is a creative endeavor anyway. It involves the same

sort of like spatial relations and problem solving and linear kind of thinking. And I, and problem solving and linear kind of thinking. And I, you know, like for me, I mean, one of my big things has always been like, what do you want to say? And I don't fucking know. I have no idea what I want to say. And I get as much, and the notion that like,

if I was given the opportunity to do whatever I wanted, here you go, show business, do whatever you want, whatever that would be, I get as much satisfaction from making dinner. Right. I mean, like cooking. Just the other day, I had a whole afternoon.

I had a bunch of nervous energy for one reason or another. And I just was like, all right, I'm going to make a big fucking elaborate meal. Just, you know, as like, you know,

it's like building a cabinet you can eat. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I think, you know, if you were to do the building a cabinet you can eat yeah you know yeah so i think you know if you were to do the restaurant business that there's definitely a level of creativity to that i agree i have i have two thoughts off of that one is going back to my dad for a second

i think about him a lot because he came from the intense you know the bohemian you know the artists who are just finding it and just doing it. It was almost that they had to be like, well, I don't care if I ever have an audience. I don't care. I have to do this. And it's a dialogue with, you know, myself and my demons and my hopes for the culture, but it's not necessarily with an audience. And in a way, the one thing, and he and I talk about this a lot, when I sort of stumble backwards and flop down into show business and found that I loved it and realized I wanted to do this for the rest of my life I was intensely interested in what the audience wanted oh yeah yeah and and this this

goes to cooking it's like it's as satisfying because in a way it's you it's the work and this third very important piece which is boom you put it in front of somebody yes and you get back something really yes yes that's like important you're either making them happy or making them you know or they're freaking out for whatever reason yeah you had you needed that third thing and that's sometimes what i i do differentiate there's this kind of like pure thing that you do for yourself. I took this picture of my shoes and I worked with it in Photoshop and I never show it to anyone. And that's like real art is the way I think of it. Or I have volumes of poetry that I'll never show anyone, that kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. And then for me, and I suspect for you and for people who cook food and bartenders, there's also the great pleasure of putting it in front of somebody else.

It is actually the last piece and you need it. Yeah, and I think that's definitely true. And there's degrees, too, because putting it in front of somebody and needing it too much, like needing the person to not just say, oh, this is delicious soup, but to shit their pants and and go, oh, my God, you know, and their eyes just spin around. Like that's, you know, there's that level. And then there's also the level that I sometimes deal with is that I feel like I wish I had more of that notion of just doing it for myself. Because sometimes I feel like I don't know what there is to do for myself. You know, like would I be telling stories? If I won the lottery, would I ever do anything other again

than cook elaborate meals that took all afternoon, you know? So that's not about you. That's about me. Yeah, but I like it because, again, this is going back to where do you come from because I come from these artists. My mother's a writer. My dad is a visual artist. They're both more capital A artists than I am.

Yeah. But in a way, I know that the writing and the visual arts sort of intersect right at animation. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I literally, you can draw the line. Yeah, yeah. You can see I was sort of destined in a way or, you know, created in a lab to do this work. And yet, when I was growing up, I knew what the creative endeavor looked like. My mother would go up to her

little office to write and my dad would go to his studio to paint. But I didn't know about this thing with the audience. And so I guess to me, the answer is, if you won the lottery, I suspect this is true of you too. But if at least for me, I would still do something that I wanted to put out into the world. Yeah, yeah. I think you're right. And I would really want it to land with somebody. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't have to be a big audience. I really like doing bobs for a big audience, but I also really liked making shows on cable for a small audience.

Sure. So it really doesn't have to be big. It just has to be deep. Yeah. Yeah. It has to be that audience that gets some deep pleasure. Yeah. Deep or,

or what it's like pleasure plus, right. It's like there's making somebody happy. Like I want to make people happy. Right. You know, maybe that's the third question in this experimental. It doesn't matter.

They don't, they don't have to go in order, but I guess it's interesting. Cause it's like, you don't want it to be junk food right candy makes people happy sure but it's bad for you know but it's yeah it's of limited nutritional value yes and so there is like there's the deep satisfaction of a piece of work that's been loved and carefully crafted like a meal yeah and served to somebody who likes it and gets nourishment from it, not just some passing pleasure. Right, exactly. And yeah, we would do that.

I assume that's the thing we're driven to do. Yeah. And maybe the medium isn't as important. I guess that's right. Yeah. I guess that's right. Now, coming from that, did you, from that environment, I mean, because that is very interesting to me that you, you know, From that environment, I mean, because that is very interesting to me that you, you know, you had that paradigm of what creative people going into creative spaces looked like.

Yeah. Did you sort of just then follow in that kind of naturally? Did that become like a natural flow for you? And what form did it take? Yes, I think I did. I, again, none of this clear at the time. Wasn't a narrative that we talked about. You know, as I was like, when I was a kid, I don't remember them saying, like, there's a path in front of you. It's the path of the creative.

Never, ever spoken about it, at least not that I remember. But I do have this very clear memory of going into the garage and saying, can this be my workspace? And my dad was like, yeah, sure, yeah, we'll clear this off here. And at the time, I think I was attaching a motor to a toy car. Like, I wasn't making art. I think I had just learned about motors and science in seventh grade or whatever. Sure. But I really wanted a workspace.

And then a couple of years later, I got this four track, and I really wanted to have a space in the garage where it was my studio. And now I have kids and I see them doing that. They're like, can this be my desk? And you're like, yeah, okay. That's your desk. So I think there's like, some of it is, yeah, you're modeling this idea that you go to a place, whether it's even just the end of the kitchen table, but that's like your little kind of space where you create, but you're a grownup. Because kids do that naturally. Kids just go and play or whatever.

But I think when I was a kid, where do I come from? I do think I'm seeing my parents go into their little area and do their job the way I understood it as a kid, but I now see is kind of their calling yeah their thing they could not do and i do it probably did have an effect on me yeah yeah i think it gives you permission right to keep that part of you that you do naturally as a kid but that some people like leave behind as an adult where it's like my desk is where i do my homework sure but i think if you give your kids theoretically what my parents gave me was this permission to just sit in the garage for six hours at a stretch and write bad songs and record them on my four track. Yeah, yeah.

Now, I happen to know that you dropped out of high school. Yes. And why was that? Tell me how, I mean, yeah, okay, your parents are bohemians, but were they wild about you dropping out of high school? No. And how did that evolve? It's fairly simple. I can kind of now, looking back, tell it in more or less two sentences, which is my mother died.

Oh. And my dad wasn't freaked out about the fact that I couldn't do my homework and couldn't go to class. I see. Because of where he came from. I see. So it was those two pieces. So it was from mourning that you – Yeah.

Yeah, that's too bad. She died when I was 14. My sister was 11. She died of cancer. We were a good unit. My dad did a really good job, and we more or less held it together. You know, I think if you'd showed me a picture of what our house looked like at the time, I'm sure it would be shocking. There'd be a little, you know, there's aspects that I'm sure weren't that impressive, but we held it together.

And I went to a good high school. I had been going to a good elementary school and middle school because my dad was an art teacher at a private school in Cambridge. And so I got, you know, my sister and I got full scholarship there. And then I went into this great high school and I didn't see coming how the grief, for lack of a better word, it wasn't grief like, oh, I'm depressed because my mother died. It was just the wheels came off. I didn't see how a year, two years, three years later, I just wasn't going to be a fully functioning kid. And the way it expressed itself primarily was I couldn't understand how people did homework. It was like, I see how it's connected to to death but it also is odd you know but i just couldn't i would look at it and i think this is hours of work i don't understand

yeah and i have another class i have to do this class and i then of course you know it's it builds on itself right if you get behind oh no i know oh my god and so I'd be like I'm so behind it would take so much effort to catch up so it started becoming clear yeah in junior year but it really was the beginning of my senior year where I didn't see how I could get to the finish line I was really not going to finish you know I wasn't going to be able to finish and then I just started doing crazy shit like just not going to class I would skip all day and then go to art yeah you know I wasn't going to be able to finish and then I just started doing crazy shit like just not going to class I would skip all day and then go to art yeah you know because she didn't know like the ceramics teacher didn't know that I hadn't been in the building yeah you know so I would just kind of stroll in and the other kids would look at me like aren't you not here today

and then I would just be like no no I'm just here you know I'm just taking ceramics and finally the headmaster pulled me in and he said I think you want me to kick you out so I'm just here. I'm just taking ceramics. And finally, the headmaster pulled me in and he said, I think you want me to kick you out. So I'm not going to. He was like, you got to make that decision. I'm not going to just be this convenient. Kind of good for him. Yeah. I left that day.

Yeah. It was very helpful in that I was like, yeah, why am I dragging this out? Right. So bringing it back to your three questions, where do I come from? I also had this kind of interesting period where I,

you know, went off the rails a little bit. I mean, it was controlled and it was- It's almost like dropping out of society,

too, because that's such a big part of your identity as a child when you're in school. There's that, again,

it's like my dad somehow had given me permission to think of it as a little more flexible i don't think he meant to he never was like hey if you're not liking school just bug off he definitely wasn't saying that right but he was somehow communicating to me i think like it's okay yeah it's okay and because he had experienced it he had had a tough childhood he had had to drop out of high school a bunch of times to work and support his mother because he's the last of eight kids and he's paying the rent at that point. And so I think to him it was like dropping out of high school is something that is survivable.

Yeah. And so, or for whatever the hell reason, I don't know why, I romanticized this idea of getting a job, being 17 and opening the Wattnets. I had a couple of runs at it. I was sort of interested in, I was like, maybe I moved to New York. I even, I handed out flyers in New York. We were talking about it recently for an episode,

but it's like, there's not, that's not a career path. No. Just want to point that out to anybody out there. It's a good way to make a few bucks. It's no sign spinning. It's no sign spinning. not a career path. No. Just want to point that out to anybody out there. It's a, it's a good way to make a few bucks. It's no sign spinning. It's no sign spinning. That's a skill. Yeah.

So yeah, I'd figured out quickly within two days that I could not make enough money to live in New York. Sure. And then, and then back in Boston, I was like, I think I like this idea of this night watchman.

Like, I think I'd like to be a security guard so like i transitioned from being in good having a good education so far you know being on a good track to having this little um other thing where i kind of in a weird way went followed my dad's footsteps and had sort of a blue collar like like five years of working. Wow. And so I did security at the, it was a night watchman at a museum. And then I got into the nightclub business. I kind of like tried to like look as big as I could. And I applied for a job as a doorman at a nightclub in Boston.

And I got it. Wow. They weren't, they didn't think I was tough, but they were looking for doormen who would also be polite and could smile. It was obviously a classy joint. It was a classy joint, exactly. Because you're a classy guy. Thank you, yes.

The Roxy, anybody from Boston who was going out in the late 80s, it was the Roxy nightclub on Tremont Street. Still there, I think. I think it's live music now. We were, as a family family holding it together kind of doing pretty good and also yeah like i said just sort of quietly letting and my sister had a similar experience kind of just couldn't do school yeah um and uh i'm really glad for it i have to say i i don't recommend it i wish i had gone to college um for the fun yeah for the pleasure of being young a little longer and the figuring yourself out it's a great place to figure yourself out yes so i don't recommend

it but at the same time to people who are in college and they're wondering if they should pick up a shift at a bar the answer is yes you absolutely should work and you should do service you know i mean you should serve drinks or you know sling hash somewhere like get that job and do it for not just a little tiny bit not just to pay for an xbox but like for a year or two years like i think that's i also come from that yeah um and that was one of the thoughts i was going to say earlier, which is when I did finally get lucky and fall into animation, we talked a lot, my boss and I, about hiring bartenders. We both were under the impression, he being a guy who liked to go to bars and me being a guy who used to work in bars, that bartending prepared people for production. That it's actually almost the same skill set.

I guess it is, yeah. We're under pressure, you know, and again, spatial. It's very much about spatial relations and like, you know, linear thinking, ingredients. There's everything is a problem that needs to be solved. And there are steps to be taken in order to untie that knot or whatever. And that incredible moment that I think about all the time, I still have dreams about it, when your bar is full and everybody wants a drink and there isn't a line. There's a line in front of you, but they arrived at different times.

And you have no way, if you're really slammed, if you're in the weeds, of correctly tracking who arrived when and whose turn is actually next. So what you're really doing while you're catching up and making drinks as fast as you can is you're buying a little bit of latitude from the people who feel screwed. And it's like actually really important life skill. You know, basically you look them up, you meet, you look them in the eye and you say, I'm going to get right with you. I'm so sorry.

And you, you tell them in code, you probably actually were next, but I got her because I'm working left to right. Right, right. And I'm sorry. She only has two beers. Here we go. Now what can I get you? And you hopefully just bought yourself that little bit of, I don't know, generosity on their behalf. Yes.

And you get your tip. I never attended bar, but I waited tables. And I've always noticed, too on their behalf. Yes. And you get your tip. I never attended bar, but I waited tables. And I've always noticed too, especially with bartenders, but you get it somewhat with waiting tables, which is as a server, you, the customer, do not exist until I make eye contact with you. Because you can stand at a bar and the bartender can do a thousand things

and until they look up you don't exist to them and it's kind of like well you're the boss you're back there and you got what i want so i guess i have to live by that rule yeah i do want to backtrack just because of a question because it's something that i have and and uh and i have an 18 year old son who's dealing with it right now. Do you think there was some attention deficit involved in what you were going through in school? Because I definitely suffered from it. I didn't have, I mean, there was dysfunction in our family, but there was not the grief that you were experiencing. But that notion of like, where the piled up homework almost becomes like a hoarder's nest of like where you're walled in by your own sort of incapabilities to the point where it feels like you don't know where to start.

It's all too big. And in some ways, it almost becomes a comfort. You know what I mean? It becomes in the way that depression can be a comfort you know like and i wonder if that was maybe an aspect of that with you i mean is that something that's been in your life elsewhere no i no one's ever thrown that those words around with me and i when i when somebody says like oh that's you know that guy's got attention deficit issues or that kid. I don't go like, oh, I see myself in him. It is the classic version of attention deficit that I think I understand.

It's painful to keep their attention on one thing for too long. Right, right. I wasn't that guy. Yeah, yeah. I definitely went hard at stuff I was interested in. And I was focused. Well, that's, I mean, there's all different kinds. Right.

Because I definitely, you know, for somebody who can't, who has trouble getting through a magazine article, I mean, even an article that I'm kind of excited about reading. I can, I like to fish and I can stand and look at a string in the water all fucking day. And it's, you know, just because of the potential creature that's going to come up. So there's different ways. But I remember as a kid sitting and just looking at these worksheets in grade school and going like, I can do this. I know this. Getting two sentences in and being like, oh, my God, I can't take it anymore. But I mean, if that's not you, that's –

It wasn't me, but I – It's interesting because's not you that's you know it wasn't me but it's interesting because it's functionally kind of the same thing yes and i also think teenagers it's coming at them from like i feel like you're if you're like maybe you're a classic adhd kid or you're just a teenager yeah and like you're already adult yeah i i think back on my brain and i barely recognize it it It was a little insane. Yeah. You know, people talk about how like little kids are narcissists or whatever, which is true and great.

Right, right. And totally fine and we all forgive them. But like teenagers are a weirder version. You know, like everyone kind of, I think on some level blocks it out. Yeah. And doesn't want to revisit it or we do, but squinting. But I keep trying to like, especially as my kids get older, I keep trying to come to it and really like face what I was, the stupid shit I was thinking about when I was a teenager and the extent to which it

effectively was, might as well have been attention deficit. In my case, it felt sort of like, I would just describe it as, yes, self, too much self reflection. Yeah. I was too inside my head. Yeah. I wish on some level that either school or something could have helped me stay outside of that. Yeah. Just be in front of me. And of course, you got to look at yourself in the mirror a little bit when you're a kid.

Of course, you do your hair. Yeah. look at yourself in the mirror a little bit when you're a kid. Of course you do your hair. Yeah. You know, that's okay a little bit. But just like, I think I like started narrating a story where I was the main character, but it was in the third person. And I think I just was like really too caught up in romanticizing my own adolescence. Yeah. And I wish I had spent less time on that because it would have been more time for other shit. That also to me sounds like a coping mechanism, too.

Yeah, perhaps. So cut yourself some slack. Fair enough. I wish I had gone to college for the fun. That's all I'll say. And that's what I tell my kids. Go to college just because I think you're going to have a really good time. You can still bartend.

You don't miss out. You get to do both. It's hard, though. I'll tell you. My son is 18. My daughter is 13. And I worked since i was 13 years old i had paper routes and then you know my stepfather was a plumber and on saturdays and summers i started crawling under houses with plumbers and holding flashlights and you know reading parts catalogs to familiarize myself

with sink stand you know faucet stand yes no i've seen myself with sink stand, you know, faucet stand. Yes. No, I've seen some of your urinal tweets. That's right. That was just recently. Yeah. But I have the same thing where I want my kids to learn that life is work. Life is work.

And life is like. And work is fun. Yeah. Work can be fun. Or satisfying. Fun is the wrong word. Yeah, yeah work work can be or satisfying one is the wrong word yeah yeah work can be fun but there is but until you get to work being fun yeah you have to go work at the grocery store and the manager is a fucking idiot yes and you gotta do what he says yes and that's different from a teacher who's kind of an asshole and you got to kind of follow them to get a good

grade like it's a different kind of thing yes because it's much more of an example of what what it is to be a grown-up and what it is you know because i mean you and i live on top of cotton candy mountain in terms of like what we get to do for a living yeah yeah a lot of other people don't they they have to eat shit uh and and i want i want my kids just get a little flavor of shit because they have a very they have a pretty easy life you know i mean it's it's complicated there's you know there's all kinds of emotional stuff that happens but in terms of like financial hardship, worrying about paying bills, access to, like now, well, my kids, you got a problem? Well, we have four different ways to fix it.

In fact, and two of them are specialists with PhDs. There was none of that. You just had to kind of figure it out. And I don't know. I mean, do you think about that with your kids? Of course. Of course. It's so terrifying to think that this streak of luck that I feel so grateful for, that feels so good.

I love to be able to do this job. I love that it's worked out so far. I love that I'm still in good health and that here I am. I've arrived at sort of almost achieved beyond what I could have imagined for myself at this point in my life. So happy for that. And what if the joke was it ruins your kids' lives? Yeah.

That like, that's awful. And I desperately don't want that to happen. And so of course, yeah, you basically wake up every day with fear that the good thing will turn out to be a bad thing that they wear around their neck like an anvil. And so I try very hard to have those thoughts, those conversations, and ultimately try

to convert them into some kind of plan where, yeah, you can say, guys, you're in a lucky situation, but we have to expose you to unluckiness. And so you know what it looks like and feels like and smells like. Right. And so you have sympathy for the guy you bump into who has had a shitty day. Yeah. And in fact, is having a shitty run. Yeah. He's not anywhere near where he wants to be and he has no way to get there.

Until you know what that really feels like or at least take a shot at it. Yeah. Come as close as you can then you can't really sympathize with that guy and you're wondering why he wants to fight you right but once you know why that guy is willing to throw you know pulling a tire iron out of the back of his car yeah because you had a rear end you won't you won't understand what's why you're in that situation and what the stakes are that how they're different for you and they're different for him. And having that awareness is its own reward too. That's the other thing.

It's not just because it's nice that you think about others. Right. It's because it is being the most alive. Is that if you have multiple viewpoints of the people that are around you and an awareness of the people around you, you are an awareness of the people around you you are 10 times more alive than that fucking guy who has one lens and that's like you know i had an idea the other day i was it was a parking structure i can't remember where it was but i suddenly flashed on this idea what if you got a brain injury that made you think that everyone you saw looked like

a relative of yours it just hit me all of a sudden i don't even think that everyone you saw looked like a relative of yours. It just hit me all of a sudden. I don't even think the guy I was looking at looked like a relative of mine, but it just popped into my head. What if every single person you interact with kind of looks like an uncle or an aunt and would it like, how would you treat and what would it feel like? And it struck me that what you're saying, not only would, of course, I would have more naturally occurring empathy, but I would feel better. Yeah. I would just have a better day. I'd be like, well, my aunts and uncles are all around me. Right, right.

I'm having a pretty good day. Right. You know, we're all in this together. Yeah. And it seemed profound for a hot second, and then I was like, I lost the thread. I think it's true. It seemed profound for a hot second, and then I was like, I lost the thread. No, I think it's true. And because my example of it is having, I went to film school.

I started work in Chicago on film productions as a production assistant. And then, you know, if somebody says, hey, can you run video assist? You go, yeah, sure. You have no fucking clue. And somebody that's a camera operator that's a friend of yours tells you how to put it together. And, you know, you get your day rate and whatever. And I ended up doing props. You know, I probably would have ended up doing prop guy in Chicago or working in advertising in some way.

But that perspective now, being an actor, I always think of myself as a very lucky crew member. And it fucking burns me so bad when you've got some pampered actor that says like, why is this taking so long? And it's because it's like, you don't have a fucking clue. It's because it takes a long time to hang lights. It takes a long time to make you look good. It takes a long time after you get sprayed with the chocolate milkshake

to get you dressed in a new outfit you get sprayed with the chocolate milkshake to get you dressed in a new outfit that isn't covered in chocolate milkshake. And that feeling, it's not just because it's a sort of moral superiority that I think of myself as just another member of the crew who gets his own little room, you know, and who gets his own chair with his name on it and all this other extra shit. It's that you feel better yeah you feel just better about being in this place you feel like you're a part of it as opposed to a child that's being taken care of by some people and then they're being sort of like workmen in your mother's house surrounding you delaying you from your doing whatever magic thing you do. Gratitude is so powerful.

And now there's like research and articles and I'm sort of like half interested. But I never really read the whole article. I just kind of go like, yeah. Yeah, yeah, no shit. No shit. You know, it's like I've done brain scans on Buddhist monks who have practiced gratitude every day for their lives as part of their rituals. And their brains are actually different. And I got it.

I totally believe it. I don't even need to read the rest of it. I experienced that as well. It's like gratitude. People think like, Oh, you should be grateful. And it's actually,

no, you want to be grateful because it actually improves. It makes, it's just keeps coming around and around. I don't know any other way to say this. You're more alive. You're just more alive. The more perspectives that you can see life from,

the more you're alive and the more you're making of your time. One of the shitty jobs I had was installing computer cable. It was in the late 80s when it was like I barely understood. I didn't know why we would have that. I was just like, that seems crazy. What are they going to do? And they were like, people are going to email. And I that seems crazy what are they gonna do in here yeah and they were like people are gonna email and i was like what would they talk about i don't understand uh but i but i got hired all around suburban boston to install

computer cable and one of the things i experienced was being up on a ladder in a cool office it's cambridge it's uh brick exposed brick yes and i'd be up on the ladder and pulling this cable through this stupid conduit and looking down at people having really, I was suddenly like, wow, they seem like they're having a really cool life. I'm this close to them. This isn't a TV show. This is a real office. What do they do here?

It's an advertising, whatever it was. And I was basically like this kind of fly on the wall, literally, or like kind of in the ceiling. I'm the guy with his head up like kind of in the ceiling. Yeah. I'm the guy with his head up through those little panels. Yeah. With dust all over. And I would, I didn't know it at the time, but I was, you know, I was looking into the future.

Yeah. Where I would be that guy in the office. A little bit of like good juicing and envy, you know? Yes. Like envy as a juice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now I don't ever stop. as a juice.

Yes. And now, I don't ever stop. I literally will be in a room with dropped ceilings and I can see myself looking down at me and going, lucky guy.

Yeah, yeah. Look at him just sitting around with snacks talking to funny people. Everyone seems so loud. They're all laughing all the time.

Yeah, yeah. I wasn't laughing when I was installing No, no, not at all. Only when we would go into the little punch down rooms and we were by ourselves.

Sure. Can't you tell my love's a-growing? All right, well, next. Yeah. Let's get to animation. How did that happen? I mean, you know, you're this jack-of-all-trades, nightclub guy. Yeah.

What happens? Pure luck. Totally. Did you draw a lot i drew yeah yeah i drew i liked writing i was interested in storytelling in in all those you know ways that you can imagine i was like maybe i'll write a novel i'll go to a cambridge center for adult education and um learn how to write a mystery and then i was like no no cartooning that's the future see i'll get a airbrush and I'll learn how to do uh cartoon I knew that I had potentially fucked up and by not going to college I knew that I was now like you know here I am I've got all these creative urges what the hell am I going to

do with this and I had even thought animation well here's this show the Simpsons that's amazing like god it's for not just for kids it's for adults I'm becoming an adult, but I didn't dare to imagine it. I was really mostly just panicking. But on one of my trips into Harvard Square to get art supplies, I bumped into a guy who had been my science teacher in grade school and who had left teaching to start a software company. And he said, do you still draw? And I said, yeah. And he said, I just started doing animation. You should come by the shop and see what we're doing. Maybe there's a job for you. And I knew it in that one second, not knowing what he was, the content, just knowing that I love the guy and that I felt it.

I felt the lightning hitting. I'm getting like chills from it. It's wonderful. like chills from it's like wonderful it's so important to talk about gratitude to think about luck yeah and how if i had been 30 feet off of that or a minute later or a minute later yeah everything's different and it was wonderful we had a great time so that was tom snyder and he was starting this thing that would become the animation uh sort of division of his company and and dr cats had already been conceived of by them. It was a little different, but it basically became these seven one-minute shorts that we did for Comedy Central.

And he hired me to – Because Jonathan Katz is in the Boston area. Yes. So, yeah, you get that benefit. They had found each other, and both of them had a very kind of clear vision. We're going to do a lot of improv. We're going to shoot a lot of audio. a very kind of clear vision.

We're going to do a lot of improv. We're going to shoot a lot of audio. We're going to cut it down using this new thing, digital audio, which is sort of like pretty much just becoming into the mainstream at that point. And then we're going to use computers to do low-budget animation. So they had all the vision, and I just had to put it on like a coat.

And I knew, I knew always. And every day, this is what I was meant to do. This is the luck that I was like hoping for. It has arrived. I quit bartending. I went to work and I never looked back. I was fascinated with every aspect of it and wanted to do it all. And it was a perfect way to do it. Tom was not that interested in LA or moving. He loved that there was cable channels that wanted to do, you know, animation for less money. He was really focused on exactly what he needed to be focused on at that time.

And then, of course, we also got lucky. We cast John Benjamin as the son on Dr. Katz. And then all of a sudden we've got chemistry, you know, Laura and John and Jonathan were amazing in the booth. chemistry, you know, Laura and John and Jonathan were amazing in the booth. They had hours of improv in them and, you know, we're gifted at reading these scripts. So we, we were like pigs and shit. Those of us that liked editing, we're cutting it up all night. Me in particular, I'm staying late and just like loving this, you know,

being on a old, no, I mean, it wasn't an old then, but on a Mac and cutting the audio and trying to, you know, take two or three old then, but on a Mac and cutting the audio and trying to, you know, take two or three hours of improv and scripted material and boil it down to these audio tracks, which we would then give to the animators. And, uh, you know, we had a great run and it was really fun to work with the comics. That was kind of incredible. You know, there was a real scene in New York and even in Boston at the time. So it was relatively easy for a comic to jump on a shuttle and come up and record in Boston.

So we kept it really local. We kept it close. John Benjamin and Laura Silverman both moved to New York, but didn't tell us for years. They would secretly take the train and come into the record. It's like, yep, here we are,

Boston actors just working on this show, local actors. And finally they confessed and we started paying for their train. But it was, you know, it was great. And then Home Movies came out of that. And that just that whole experience was incredible. Home Movies ends, I take it? Home Movies ends.

Ends. And then what is that period in between? Like the in between Home Movies and Bob's Burger? It was, you know, leaving the nest, knowing I wanted to go out on my own. I wanted to live in New York. I wanted to, I was jealous a little of writers. You know, I saw, you know, Benjamin's life looked really nice. And, you know, I was like, oh, what is this?

You know, Sam Seder got an overall. What's an overall? Like, I didn't know what show business really was, but I kind of had a sense that, like, I might want to go out on my own. And it was gentle and, you know, took years and it worked out in terms of the home movies. You know, that was the perfect, I could kind of commute and come back to Boston and run home movies. Oh, okay. But still.

Be pursuing. Be pursuing. And so I sold a pilot to Adult Swim. That didn't go. Be pursuing. And so I sold a pilot to Adult Swim. That didn't go. But then after Home Movies ended, I sold one season of another show called Lucy Daughter of the Devil. And then that sort of ended up in San Francisco, New York to San Francisco now, after two years in New York. And that was a great experience. I loved sort of setting up my own little thing there and working with studios there. And 30 seconds of Lucy, Daughter of the Devil got to Fox and they called me. Oh, wow. And they were like, would you want to develop? And of course, over the years, I knew that Fox existed as a place where people made animated shows, but I'd always been intimidated.

Yeah. But because they called and I went to meet with this nice woman, Susana Makos, and she was so, she made it seem so doable. Yeah. She was so friendly and open and like, well,

just pitch us something. And so I got, I suddenly had permission to do this thing that for the last 20 years I would never have dared. Yeah. And,

and it also frankly wasn't ready. Uh-huh. I love that. I think, I agree. Yeah, I think that happens. Love being 40 and doing Bob's burgers at 40 rather than shitting my pants and trying to do it at 30. I think I would have made so many more

mistakes. Of course you still make them. Of course it's still hard. Season one of anything is hard, no matter how old you are or how many times you've done it. But I think that I got lucky there too, done it. But I think that I got lucky there too, in that I had done that job before I had to do it on that bigger scale where you're doing 22 episodes a year and your budgets are bigger and your expectations are bigger. And that was nice. I got lucky with Adult Swim. The fact that I could work for them for 10 years and kind of build up some skills was lucky. How long did you have the idea for Bob's Burgers? It's funny. Nothing called Bob's Burgers in the early days. I had various versions of a family that runs a restaurant. That had fascinated me for years because I'd been in restaurant business, because the home movies had been fun telling stories about kids and adults. I was, oh yeah,

I was like like early version was a seafood restaurant and the daughter is allergic to seafood that was like a early early gimmick yeah i found that in my like documents folder uh not that long ago and i was like oh that's kind of like i see where i was going with that um and then later i was interested in in these articles about a pizza place in saugus mass that it was like three generations yeah so by the time i got to fox i was like three generation of some level of commitment to this restaurant like grandfather gave it to his son his son freaking hates it can't yeah like believe what a chore it is and then maybe kids starting to get older and maybe they don't have to and i was interested in that like and then we lopped off the top generation, more or less,

and shrunk it down. And then it was burgers. All of a sudden, it hit like, burgers, of course. They're so iconic. It's so fun to draw a burger and made pizza look stupid. And such a limited menu, too. I love how limited the menu is there yeah and then finally i made one mistake and fox was great about course correcting and i

know why it happened but it's a little embarrassing i've admitted this before but it was i think it's because i've been working at adult swim and because i thought fox wanted edgy. Yeah. I pitched it as a family of cannibals that runs a burger restaurant. Ah. And they were like, love the cast, love the, the audio you've recorded. We love the drawings that you've done.

Can they not be cannibals? And I was like, no, they don't have to be cannibals. I thought that was for you. I think, you know, and they were like,

oh great. Well, then no cannibals. And I was like, yeah, no cannibals. Yeah. Yeah.

So we got rid of all the murder and all the cannibalism. And what was left was definitely Bob's Burgers. We had the cat. We had everything. But we just took away murder. Yeah. Yeah. One thing that I, years ago, when The Simpsons first really started to take hold, I was struck by the fact that I cared so much more about Homer and Marge and Bart and Lisa than any actual human being on television.

That the dynamic of that family was so much more meaningful to me and so much more touching to me. And I was so much more invested in those relationships than anybody on Friends or anybody on Gilmore Girls or Take your pick yeah same thing with bob's burgers i think that that family like the dynamic of those fucking weirdos that have this glumphing machinery of a life yeah and the amount of love that binds them together is like do you know why it's why that works like that like why do you think that it's... I have a couple of theories. I mean, I...

That you can become so deeply attached to a drawing of a person. Yes. Because, like, do you think that if it was live action that Bob's Burgers would be as effective? Well, it'd be done by now. Yeah. The kids would be too old.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. So, yeah, there's a couple of thoughts I have along those lines. I don't know the answer, but I certainly have my little theories. I do believe that animation potentially enters your brain in a different way than live action. I don't know that everyone wants it.

A lot of people reject it. You know, adults especially are just like, I don't watch animation. I don't even watch that much animation, but I did. I have. I've consumed enormous amounts, and I certainly like to sit down and watch it with my kids. I don't know. We need a neurologist and a CAT scan or something to measure it. But I do think it lights up different parts of your brain than when you're watching a real human face that's been photographed. And I think secondarily, animation allows you to cast adults as kids, men as women, women as men. And that starts to work to your favor too.

The Simpsons, obviously, those are all adults. Bobs, they're all adults, but they're playing kids and they're drawn as kids. And so you kind of accept them as kids. And yet, you know, also your brain is smart enough to know that's Kristen Schaal. She's a 30 something year old woman. She's doing the voice of a kid. So you hold both in your head at once

I'm conceiving of this character but I also know that the voice is by an adult and I think that is special I think it really

works some magic obviously like there's other ways to do it peanuts you know as kids playing kids and that's good too

seems to have worked out for them and I remember liking it when I was a kid but I do think there might be a little more for me something that's a, too. It seems to have worked out for them. And I remember liking it when I was a kid. But I do think there might be a little more, for me, something that's a little more interesting about this. It's a better performance. It's a better performance, for sure. It's a better performance, for sure.

I mean, kids are great. sort of like more distasteful things that like, especially like Jean, like the things that Jean says, I think it would be uncomfortable if you were paying a 10 year old to say some of the stuff that Jean says, but you're not, you're paying a grownup man. Yeah. So absolutely right. And so,

yeah, I think there's that. And then I think on top of that, that you've already got that going for you. And then if you choose to, as a storyteller, as a nerd sitting around thinking about animated worlds, you can, if you want, tell stories

where you still take the character seriously enough that you want the audience to buy their relationship as real and the character's relationship to the world as real. Grounded is sort of helpful, but I don't know if that word isn't that useful. But it's like some level of believability, some level of what I, you know, just as a catch-all called character-driven storytelling is we're going to make jokes and we're going to break some version of reality at all times. Plus it's animated. So by definition, they're drawings.

And yet I'm going to like keep telling you i take this seriously the audience feels that the show takes the characters seriously yes and and i think that their feelings have stakes yes stakes involved with their feelings so if i so it's like a for me i think it's a double do it's animation it's the casting and everything that allows you to animation allows you to do combined with that character-driven storytelling which of course exists in other is live action too but if you get it all together it can be really potent i think it can be like um you people some people want to mainline it they want yes to feel it uh every day or often and and i now serve those people i want to make a show that satisfies that audience. I get it. Yeah, yeah. And it's nice that on top of it, the example, the characters themselves are pretty open. Yeah.

They're tolerant, open people. Yeah. And so you're preaching to the choir to some extent, but you're reinforcing this idea like, you're like a kind-hearted humanist out there. Here's a show not just for you, but about people like you. Yes, yes. And I think that also is like some kind of a goal, I guess. When you started Bob's Burgers,

how old were your kids? Like the notion of you knowing family. I mean, aside from having been a kid. Right. But because it is, you know, the name of the show is the dad it's bob's burgers so he's is sort of the central character have you learned i'm basically what i'm what i'm getting at is like the sort of dual track of learning how to create a tv family and the overlap of a real family the

development of a real family and and where do they intersect and in what way have you felt those two things intersect my kids were zero and zero i guess technically when we started and then my first was born right when we were going kind of just beginning to see that it might be that we have to move to la and this might get picked up to series yeah and my second was born just after we were in production. So they are as old as Bob's. One a little bit older, one a little bit younger, but they're like right there.

And it has been great. I did start with an image of the kids on the show that was partly from my memory of my childhood and partly from what I was really feeling from the actors and their sense of their childhood or their childlike selves or whatever you want to call it.

Well, your cast is, Jesus Christ, just the best. Yes, and it's very much built around their abilities and their voices and their silliness. And so it was a silly group of people who could access their childhood pretty easily, and so could I. And then everyone, all of us, a lot of us writers, myself, a bunch of the cast,

we all started having kids. And so it's interesting, in a way, there was, I went from associating with the kids to associating more and more with the parents. Okay. I mean, I already did, but it was more like John Benjamin, like it's time for him to play a dad. On some level, it was more like he, like Benjamin, like as my dad or something, like he was a little older than me. So I, you know, he's played a coach, he played a kid, you know, he played a 25 year old. It was kind of time. So part of it was just like, you're going to be the dad.

It's going to be Bob's Burgers and you're going to be Bob. We'll figure out the rest. But on another level, yeah, I was sort of thinking about my dad, the blue-collar artist. And now I get the pleasure of starting to associate with Bob more.

And now I can write stories or pitch them or, I don't know, give notes on them that come from having kids that are the age that the kids on Bob's are. That the kids are. I've caught up to the show. My kids have caught up. I now know what it's like to have a nine-year-old

and 10-year-old and 11-year-old. Not yet a 13-year-old. I do not know what that's like. It's a different world. I've heard. So we're guessing at that one. But it's all, but I was a 13-year-old. I do not know what that's like. It's a different world. I've heard. So we're guessing at that one. But it's all, but I was a 13-year-old, so I'm taking good guesses. And I love it.

I love the fact that we're able to pull experiences that feel real into our show and sometimes even get ahead of them a little bit. I might possibly have avoided a couple of mistakes. From making a cartoon. Yeah. That's great. I was practicing having a family before I had one. That's wonderful. Not many, but maybe.

Sure, sure. On the margins. Yeah, but I mean, come on. Who gets to say that? I'm a better dad because of the cartoon family. Because I got to write one for a while yeah

can't you tell my love's a-growing well you know we call this the three questions yeah I mean I do

it's I'm the only one here right now so we've done a lot of like where you're from and I think a lot of what you've learned but

where are you going what do you think you're from and I think a lot of what you've learned. But where are you going? What do you think? This is the one I was most scared of. Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, it's pretty scary. I mean, I don't want like showbiz scoops. I don't want Deadline Hollywood. But I mean, when you look forward, what do you see yourself doing? And I don't just mean professionally. I mean, with your life and with with yourself as a dad and a man and a husband no big deal take a breath pause professionally i will say this i like the work i like putting out something i want to keep working but i wouldn't

want to do it alone and i don't aspire to just make shit and put my name on it. And, you know, I've realized recently I really like working with big groups of people. I like that we're collaborating and that it's a shop. You know, I like that. I really like that, and I have always liked that. Yeah. And it's like bartending. You're just at the end of your shift, and you look around, and you're just like, these are my brothers and sisters.

Like, we got through another one. When I started, I mean, I talked about being on a film crew, same thing. I love being on a crew. I don't even, when I work in, I don't even care about the audience laughter. I truly don't. I care about the cameraman's laughter. And it was the same thing when I started out in my creative career. I was like, yeah, I'm interested in writing and I'm interested in acting. But I took acting classes and they're awful and full of shit. And then like, oh, improv. You do both at the same time. You don't get a chance to think about it.

So you don't have to worry about the writing. And also, you're never alone. Right. I tried just kind of as a dilettante thing to do stand-up. And I just came to the conclusion, I have no interest in being on stage alone. I try just kind of as a dilettante thing to do standup. And I just came to the conclusion, I have no interest in being on stage alone. I don't give a fuck about being on stage by myself. And the magic of being on stage is being on stage with someone else and what you create with someone else. So I wholeheartedly understand. And so driving over here, anticipating this question, if you look ahead and you try to figure out where are we going, on some level, for me, it's like, well, I don't want to just leave behind the work.

I'd actually like to leave behind the shop. And I think if possible, and it's hard, I believe that other people have tried this. And the reason that doesn't always work is because it's hard, but in success, I think I, where am I going is I'd like to build out a, you know, group or a system or a studio or something where people can keep doing this. If they so choose, like create a little space where the next generation can come in the way I came in, you know? You mean people working for you now? Right. They'll run the company someday.

Yeah, yeah. Then they'll leave it behind for somebody else. And, like, I do like that shop thing. Yeah. And that's what was going on in Boston. And I didn't end up wanting to stay, and it didn't end up lasting. But for a hot second there, you're like, I love that feeling when you're like, I could do this forever. And like, everyone's looking around each other and

like, I could do this forever too. Like we should do this forever. Can we do this forever? And I feel like there's a, you know, here and there, there's half examples of people who've left behind the group that can carry on doing work that sort of, I don't know, informed by some of the same principles or in some sort of in house style or whatever you want to call it. But it's all of theirs. And the audience is like, yeah, I want to keep watching that. Yeah, yeah. I don't care who's writing it or who made it.

I just want just that feeling. Yeah, the quality has to be the same. And I do think that when shows are handed off from showrunner to showrunner the the personality changes somewhat but it's there's always any kind of change there's a variable level of success right it can either work fine work fantastic or fail miserably so i don't worry about you though i think you i think it's a good goal even if you fail. Yeah. So my attitude is,

Oh, just go for it. And, and if we just do the work and then at the end of the day, when the work is done, you have to take apart the whole studio in order to like, I don't know, pay the bills or whatever.

Like, I guess that's okay. The tent comes down and you know, another one will come in and that's okay. But if possible, if you could leave it behind and you can step away and the thing doesn't need you anymore, I feel like that's an even greater success and a better goal. Because I just think I'll leave behind more good stuff and people, I don't know, try to make opportunities for other people. The way I got lucky, I want someone else to get lucky. Sure.

I want to find that kid who's walking with fear and panic that they fucked up and that their lives aren't going to go the way they want and be able to bump into them at the right time in their life. So I feel like in order to do that, I got to sort of aspire to build this out a little bit. And that's all what you just described too. That's all, that's parenting. Yeah. That's fathering right there. Yeah. Right. That's a little bit. And that's all what you just described too. That's parenting. Yeah.

That's fathering right there. Yeah, right. That's a good point. So yeah, and then yeah, as a husband and as a dad, I just want to do a good job, of course, and like let them know I love them and like, you know, not be that guy who screws up.

It's such a cliche, but you don't want to be, you know, the one who wishes they could go back in time and spend more time, you know, have more who wishes they could go back in time and spend more time you know have more dinners i know there's a risk i do work hard and so i i'm like a cognizant of it i you know we just i mean we just were in kawaii at the same time on vacation and we texted we we didn't almost got together almost so close together but But I remember in the first text you sent me was, I brought work. Like, you know, like that just struck me.

Because number one, my life now is so dilettante-ish, you know. I mean, working on the Conan show, it's like there's no homework on the Conan show anymore. There used to be. You know, in the early days, I had to edit my own pieces and, you know, contribute written things. Nobody's going to fire me if I don't write any bits anymore. But yeah, the notion of like, I brought work on vacation. I mean, do you see yourself trying to lessen that? Yeah, of course. The balance isn't quite right. I get home for bedtime, but not dinner. That's where where I keep looking at like how I know I'm not nailing this. I get home for bedtime, but not dinner.

And I take work on vacation, or at least I have. Yeah. I guess I always do. And I know I can improve it. It's a constant conversation with my wife. And I always try to just go into it with like a sort of a sense of like, this is not the goal. I'm not trying to have this life that this like got a little, we overextended ourselves a little bit here,

but you know, we try to look ahead, you know, like, okay, maybe 12 months, it might start to ease up. Here's why.

So yeah, it's just a constant fear for sure. Yeah. But she's been great. She let me off the hook in a big way. She's going to regret it. The other day she said, Sure. Yeah. But she's been great. She let me off the hook in a big way. She's going to regret it. The other day, she said, you're passionate about your work and you love your job. She said, so you're not some ad exec who works long hours and then comes home and has his scotch and doesn't spend time with his kids.

She's like, they see how much you love your job. They see you completely satisfied with your work. Yeah. She said, so this is probably pretty good for them. Yeah, we could use a little more of your time. And yeah, we'd love to have you get home for dinner more often. But at least that. And that was helpful.

I mean, that was nice. What a wonderfully loving thing to say. It was really. What a wonderful thing to say. It was a good day. Yeah. Because I felt a little less bad about taking work to co-wife. No, but that's, I mean, that's such a kind,

that's such a kindness that she did you. Yes, she did. Well, you know what? We're done. You were great. Thanks. This is fantastic. So were you.

Thank you. That took you long enough. All right. This has been The Three Questions with Andy Richter. My thanks to Lauren Bouchard, and tune in again next week. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Earwolf production. It's produced by me, Kevin Bartelt, executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco,

and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, associate produced by Jen Samples and Galit Sahayek, and engineered by Will Becton. And if you haven't already, make sure to rate and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production

in association with Earwolf.