The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Mae Martin

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

Comedian Mae Martin (the Handsome podcast, Netflix) joins Andy Richter to discuss the joys of doing the “Handsome” podcast with Tig Notaro and Fortune Feimster, starting comedy at 13, their rehabilitation experience, what makes Edinburgh Fringe Festival so unique, and much more.Do you want to talk to Andy live on SiriusXM’s Conan O’Brien Radio? Leave a voicemail at 855-266-2604 or fill out our Google Form at BIT.LY/CALLANDYRICHTER. Listen to "The Andy Richter Call-In Show" every Wednesday at 1pm Pacific on SiriusXM's Conan O'Brien Channel.

Hey everybody, welcome back to The Three Questions. I'm your host Andy Richter, and today I am talking to actor, comedian, writer, and musician, Mae Martin. They are the star and co-creator of the Channel 4 Netflix series, Feel Good, as well as the upcoming Netflix series, Wayward. You can also hear them as one of the co-hosts of the Handsome Podcast with Tig Notaro and Fortune Feimster. And remember, you can hear the Andy Richter call-in show every Wednesday live at 1 p.m. on Conan O'Brien Radio. If you want to join the conversation, you can find the number and submission form

in the description of this episode. Now, here is my really great conversation with May Martin. Hi, May. Hi. How are you, Andrew? I'm good. I'm good. This has been on the books like four times. I know. And then you cancel, I cancel, you cancel, I cancel. So it's good to finally get you in here. I know. It's really nice to be here. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I cancel, you cancel, I cancel. So it's good to finally get you in here. I know, it's really nice to be here.

Yeah. How's things? Also I love your glasses. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, they're good. Yeah, I got laser eye surgery, but before that I was doing that color rim, which I feel like you don't see a lot.

Yes, for those, for you listeners. Oh, sorry, yeah, right away. It's kind of like a blonde sort of frame that I wear. Yeah. And I'm very, but I'm just glad because they're sort of, they're nice glasses and they're well-made. Sol Mascot, although I don't think, I think they snipped off the Sol.

Cause Sol Mascot was a New York City, Lower East Side, eyeglass manufacturer. Oh, cool. You know, what do you call it? Optician. And when I was, when I lived in New York, I used to go there and they, and they, they would call them, because I have such a, the point I'm getting to is I have a gigantic head and I'm very limited in what I can only, I've said before, I need glasses made for bears, not for humans. They had a tray of glasses back in the, you know, early 90s, late 80s that they called welfare frames.

What do you mean? And it was for? It was for poor people who would come in and they got, you know, they were getting glasses because they were on state assistance or federal assistance. But they didn't get to choose from like anything in the shop. They had very, and they were all very like, I found very like goodlooking, normal frames, like normal old-fashioned kind of frames. And that's where you found ones that fit?

That's where I found ones that fit. And I used to, before I had to get prescriptions, I used to get sunglasses made out of them. Oh, okay. And then when I turned 40, my eyes started to just melt. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Okay.

And I had been told my whole life, you'll be fine until you hit 40, and then you'll need reading glasses and like fucking clockwork. Really? 40. And when I was 40, I started to need, I couldn't read anymore.

Like I was like, something's weird. Like my eyes feel dry or something. I was like, no, no, they're just not focusing. Oh my God. Now I got glasses. It really makes me feel calm knowing that there's opticians in the world. There's something old timey about just going to a store

and specifically it's just glasses. Same with like violin makers or hat makers. I'm like, good, that still exists. Like specialization of skill like that where you gotta go to this person. I seek out, there's TV shows that are just about like, people make an old shit the old way. And like I just, I seek out, there's TV shows that are just about like, people making old shit the old way. And like, I just, I seek out those TV shows

and I find, like you say, there's something really comforting about them. I find the same thing, very comforting in unchanged diners. Like diners that have not been remodeled in 60 years. I find that like, at least something can be relied on. Something will be here on. Yeah. Something will be here.

I know. I wonder if that's, you know, like as AI starts getting massive, if we're going to start looking for things that are, you know, where there's maybe human error, they're flawed, but they're the only a human could do. Repairing watches, you know, and this, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, yeah. It gets, no, there's just gonna be a time where like there won't be clockmakers anymore or something.

I don't know, it just kind of seems like, or if you do, it'll be one per state or something. Right, right. It's- I just learned about, that in the old days, hatters that like hap, is it called a haberdasher?

Yeah, yeah. Making hats, they used mercury. So they would, oh you knew this? They go crazy. Everybody knew this but me. Mad hatters. Yeah, yeah, because they were breathing mercury fumes their whole life.

This blew my mind. I can't, everyone I tell is like, yeah, mad hatters, yeah. Oh can't, everyone I tell is like, yeah, Matt Hatteras, yeah. Oh, there are so many little manufacturing things. There was, there's a town close to where I grew up in Illinois called, in the towns called Elgin, and there was a watch manufacturer named Elgin Watches. In fact, they may, somebody may have bought the name and they still may be making them. But it was, you know, for years and years and years, a well-known watch company. And there were a bunch of women,

because it was all women that worked in this particular thing. But in order to get glow-in-the-dark faces, you know, like little dots, they used radium. Oh, God. And in order to get the brush to a point, the women that were painting on the radium would use their tongue and roll the brush on their tongue. So just like... So they all lost their mind.

Yeah, they all got like horrible cancers. Oh my God. From like, and just that nobody was like, Hey, how come all these women... Because they had to know it was radioactive. Like radium, the whole point of it is, you know. When I think about the Mad Hatter thing, I'm like, did everyone just think that

crazy people were drawn to that job? Like the- They had to know. Yeah, they had to know. And then you just say, well, that's what you're gonna do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know, like if you take on a trade, odds are it will kill you.

Yeah. Whatever, you know. I found it interesting you because you came with an assistant who drives you and you don't drive yeah I don't have a driver's license I just got a learner's permit okay so I had nine lessons when I moved to LA and then I don't know I just I grew up in Toronto and then in London you don't really have to drive. It's faster to take the subway. Sure, of course. But I really regret it.

And now I just like, I don't have the muscle memory at all. It feels insane learning now. Does it? Yes, like, and also I'm like, none of my friends are driving safely, I now realize. Like, no one's, I never see anyone checking their blinds. Right, right. No one's turning around to check.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I gotta, I have to learn, it's crazy. Do you think it was, that it's harder now that you're an adult? Definitely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely, I'm so fearful. And then Perla, my instructor said, it's more dangerous if you're hesitant and defensive.

You gotta just be confident. And commit. And commit. Oh God. Yeah, yeah. Go on the highway and everything? No, come on. That's nuts. Did you drive young? Yeah, it was weird because my older kids,

you had to go out and find a place for them to learn to drive, which they went to AAA school, which was a couple blocks from our house. And in my high school in like small town Illinois, which they went to AAA school, which was a couple blocks from our house. And in my high school in like small town, Illinois, it was just everybody went into driver's ed. Really? Yeah, just like when you got to be 15,

or when you got to be a sophomore, you started driver's ed. And of course, like the football coach taught the driver's ed. And the school had, it was either one or two cars with that instructor brake on the passenger side. And you just, you know, that's, you came out of high school the same way, you know, we all came out learning to type.

Yeah. Which, cause they taught, that was like another sort of mandatory one. Yeah, I taught, I had typing. Yeah, yeah. You just, you were going to learn how to, how to drive a car. I think my parents were nervous,

so they sort of, they didn't actively encourage it. I think they were, like, they never let us ski either. I've never skied in my life. I'm Canadian. But they were, my mom, because when she was a kid, the first time she went skiing, broke her ankle. So she was like, it's so dangerous. And she's Canadian, right? Yeah, she's Canadian.

So I never skied and I never drove, because I think they were like, oh, it's not necessary. But safer to drive yourself than be at the mercy of your buddies. Oh, listen, I always even, you know, like back in my acid-taking days. Oh my God, what I wouldn't pay to see you on acid. When people were like,

let's go to the Indiana Dunes at like midnight. And I'm like, no guys, I don't think that's a good idea. And then you take the temperature of the room and you realize, oh fuck, we're going to the Indiana Dunes. Then my next step would be like, I'm driving. Not any of you fuck- ups, I'm gonna drive. And so then I'm the one that's like sweating behind the wheel as we drive past the steel mills

of Gary, Indiana. And the steam clouds look like they have purple throbbing veins in them. And I'm like, oh my God. Open the window like, I need air. No, I don't, I don't want air. I need the radio. No, I don't want the radio.

Just a nightmare. But it's still better than letting somebody, window like, I need air. No, I don't. I don't want air. I need the radio. No, I don't want the radio. Oh my God. It's just a nightmare. But it's still better than letting somebody, I think that's just like for me, that's dad. Like I was born a dad. That checks out. You've got a solid dad energy. My son's 24 and his friends call him dad. Really? Yes. Oh wow.

Because he's the one that's always like the voice of reason. Like, I don't think we should break into the school. You know? I think in a crisis, I'd want you around. Like, you would just kind of, yeah. Armin, are you good in a crisis? Yeah, I think so. I don't know if I'm correct.

Well, my friend told me recently that I have no memory of this. Apparently once we saw someone on a bike get hit by a car and they were on the ground, they were okay in the end. But like, I don't remember this at all, but apparently I kept running around asking if anyone had a quarter for the pay phone. But she was like, everyone has cell phones. So I don't know what happened in my brain there. Was it a long time ago when you were young? No, I was maybe 25.

Oh, wow. Yeah, really weird. Yeah, wow. We need a pay phone. But no, I think I'm okay. I think I, yeah. I also wanted to ask, because you did kind of leave home a little bit early.

Yeah. Do you think that that sort of interrupted the driving thing too? Oh, maybe. Oh yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, I didn't, I had scrounging every dollar and yeah. In Toronto, you really don't, you don't really have to drive. I mean, I could see kids in New York City, there's no, it almost would be a pain in the ass to learn to drive. I do remember one time, and it's funny that you were talking about being on acid, because the one time that when I was about 17, my friend let me drive and I was on acid and

I drove all the way downtown in Toronto and people honking and I don't know, I didn't die, but I didn't. Yeah. Well, were they honking because you were doing something wrong? I must have, I mean, I'd never driven a vehicle. Or could they just tell you were on acid? They were just in support, were they honking because you were doing something wrong? I must have, I mean, I'd never driven a vehicle. Or could they just tell you were on acid? They were, they just didn't support it, they were honking. They'll love this.

Yeah. No, I just, I'm sure I was driving at one mile per hour. Yeah. Yeah. Can't you tell my love's a girl? You grew up in a very sort of creative house, right? Very, yeah. Yeah, because your dad is English and is an artist too.

His family, yeah, like his dad was an actor, his brother's a painter, my grandma was an agent that's like in the British side. Yeah. Yeah, and my mom was very like actively involved in our brains too. She was, you know, read to us a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And my mom was very, like, actively involved in our brains too. She was, you know, read to us a lot. Yeah. Yeah. How many kids?

Me and my brother too. Yeah. Yeah. So was it just sort of expected that you would be creative? I think... I don't... Your hippie parents were like, you better be weirdos. Maybe.

Yeah. Like, I wonder if I... I have a memory of my mom saying to us when we were really little, like to my brother Joe saying, you're going to be a, uh, some kind of academic and may you'll probably do comedy and won't go to university. But I remember being like six and she said that. And so I'm like, did she just decide? And then I was like, well, okay, I guess that's what I'm doing.

Yeah. And they planted a seed that you followed. Yeah. Yeah, and they planted a seed that you followed. Yeah, yeah. But they are super creative. And actually now, like at this stage of life, my dad has suddenly become a puppet maker. He's suddenly out of nowhere. Wow.

He's a writer and he suddenly is like, this is what I was always meant to be doing. And he's making these incredible kind of like dark creatures. Yeah, that are really interesting. Are they like muppet, like hand puppets or marionettes? It's a mix of, there's marionettes or there's some where, like glove puppets. But they're really interesting.

Now he's doing like tarot card characters. Yeah, it's cool. Is he selling them or does he put on a show or is he just... At the moment he's hoarding them. Wow. It's really interesting, yeah. That's great.

Yeah. See, that's, you know, like when I said your parents insist on being... Creative. ...being weirdos, I didn't mean that in any, I like, I hope. Totally. You know, I hope my kids are weirdos, you know? I hope they're all weirdos because...

I know. It's like life is too short to not be. You know, I hope my kids are weirdos. You know, I hope they're all weirdos because it's like life is too short to not be. I know. And then in your teens, I hate seeing kids like hit puberty and suddenly become introverted and you see their kind of masks go up in their shells and it's unavoidable and you just hope they shed it later. It's really, because my older daughter, she was always just a wild child and funny. And then there was a certain age where it just...

And I could see it in my son too, but especially with her, the difference was so stark, where it was just, I don't want anyone looking at me, and I don't want anyone talking to me. Yeah, I don't want to stick my head above the parapet. Yeah. And all her clothes became like really loose and boxed. Like just obviously trying to hide, you know? And I do think that's natural. I think so.

I think then sort of post-20, we're all just trying to get back to who we were when we were 10. And like the closer you can get to that euphoria, you felt that around eight or 10, you know, the better. Yeah. I mean with, you know, with responsibility involved. Of course. You can't just, you know. Of course, of course.

I mean, I'm a dad here. Yeah, sorry. You can't just go fuck around. No, no. I mean, you can, but you know, but be nice while you're doing it. So you did know you wanted to be in comedy, really. Like, you were, like, a little groupie to comedians in Canada, right?

I was obsessed, yeah. Deep comedy fan. Yeah, and I went to a comedy club when I was, like, 11 and for my birthday and got all dressed up. And then the headliner got me on stage and, like... Just by chance? Well, I was in the front row, dressed like a ventriloquist dummy,

like in a little waistcoat and plaid pants and like penny little things. Did you just dress that way? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks like a Victorian child. Yeah, yeah. He called me up on stage. It was, everyone was referencing that there was,

because you could still smoke inside then. Like, it was weird to see a kid. Right. But anyway... Especially when, you know, dressed like an old-timey gentleman. because you could still smoke inside then. Like it was weird to see a kid. Right. Um, but anyways. Especially when, you know, dressed like an old timey gentleman. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So he made me be his ventriloquist dummy. He got me on and he made me say all this stuff.

But anyway, I was like hooked after that. And then I was big into Kids in the Hall and Tom Green. And then my dad's British comedy. He got me so into, you know, Peter Sellers and The Goon Show and Python. And you, I also see you lived in, and just in Corfu. Oh, well, my parents lived there for five years when they were in their twenties and had kids there.

And then they kept the house so we would go every summer. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I never fully lived there, but I speak Greek because there were these kids there that I wanted to be friends with. And so I kind of speak conversational Greek. You just absorbed it naturally. Yeah.

That's pretty great. My mom was fluent because they'd had babies there and yeah. So both you and your brother were born there? Different baby that passed away sadly. But they had this house that was like, I mean they lived in this rural village where no one spoke English and they had no running water when they moved there

and there was like a well. Oh hippies. My mom was pregnant and there was like. Oh you hippies. I know, I know, it is pretty romantic though. It's romantic but it's like, but to me I just... You're outraged. No, I'm not. I'm not outraged. I'm not outraged. I just... It seems like you're a nightmare. I'm terrified. I'm just terrified of like, what if something goes wrong? I know. And like, running water, we need running water. What if we get Giardia? Yeah. Like I still, that's my mother, you know. The paranoid of my mother is seeping through. I feel like I'm, like just talking about it now, I'm like, it's great that I've known I want to do comedy for so long, but it's such a massive part of my life and like ambition

is so narrowing in a way. Because I was like, I wouldn't have done that. Like just go, there was, that was just about life adventure. Like just having babies and living in this. Experiential, yeah. Yeah, experiential, like living in this random place. And I think if I was there, I'd be like, oh, but nobody's seeing me.

Like, you know what I mean? Like I. Of course. Yeah, which is disappointing. I think I'm at the, I'm ready now to do just big life adventure things that are totally unrelated to, you gotta live a life, right? But yeah, I admire that in your late 20s or whatever,

however young they were. It's just not in my wheelhouse. And the same way whenever I would hear, also too, a lot of it I think was, like I don't think of myself as a particularly fearful person, but I certainly when I was younger was not brave about going out into the world by myself. Oh, right. Yeah.

And so when I would hear about kids taking a year off college and backpacking around Europe, that to me is like, yeah, just like saying like, why don't I go live nude in the Amazon? Really? Yeah, just like no fucking way would I do that. Really? I don't I go live nude in the Amazon? Like, yeah, just like, no fucking way would I do that. I don't know why. Would you ever now go somewhere where you put your phone away and you're just on your own? I mean, because we don't have that experience anymore

of like using a map and having your little lonely planet guide. Yeah, I mean, and that's, you know, when I first started. What if we went? That would be the most unexpected thing to do. Bye, everyone that's, you know, when I first started. When I first started. What if we went? That would be the most unexpected thing to do. Bye, everyone. Bye, guys. Sorry, honey. I'm off with May.

If we're going camping. Yes, we're going camping. No, see the camping. Yeah. Bathroom. I bail on it. Yeah, I need hot water. I need a bathroom.

I need a shower. So we're going to stay in a villa. Right. In Corfu. Or a little, you know, a little cabin would be nice. I don't need a lot, but I definitely do need a running toilet. Yeah, me too. Because I got problems.

Yeah, I need you to have a running toilet. We all, the world needs me to have a running toilet. You did leave school pretty early. Was school tough for you? Was it... Yeah. Was it? Yeah, so I guess I did have some of the adventure spirit because I did, well, I dropped out of school.

Yeah, summers in Greece is pretty, is pretty... That was good. Well, and also too, you got a real good taste of like, this could be my life, but I need the validation of strangers. Strangers, I need the validation of strangers. I need to be in a dingy comedy club. Yeah, well I was already doing comedy like three or four nights a week. I don't know why I had that long a leash in my family, but I was out every night.

And so then I dropped out when I was like 15 and then I was doing it full time. And then I got kicked out when I was 16. And so then I was like... and then I was doing it full time. And then I got kicked out when I was 16. And so then I was like- Out of the house? Yeah, so then I was like out on my own and being crazy. Was that cause were you just rebellious and- Yeah, I was doing, I was loving doing drugs. Yeah, yeah.

That was the main reason I think. And I don't know, I think we were all freestyling with how to be in a family, like with tough love and like, what do we do with this person? But it was stressful for sure. But then when I was 20, I went actually speaking of like, adventures, I went to find myself and I volunteered in an orphanage in Nepal for like four months

and that like changed my life. And like got sober and yeah. In what sense? I mean, what do you think was the the what did you find out? Well. Drugs are bad? No I mean I what did I find out? To be honest it was I went to rehab after right before that and that's really what changed my life. Yeah. But then going to Nepal was I guess it was really empowering and whenever because I was it was really empowering. And whenever, because I was, it was an orphanage with all these little sweet kids. And I think whenever I'm around kids, then you're reminded

like, oh, I could be a safe person for a child. And that's very empowering. And you're like, oh, I'm a legit person in the world. And it brings out the best side of people, I think, being around kids or should ideally. So I think that was good. I went hiking and up in the mountains and it was wild. I had crazy experiences. I met this guy who claimed he had just seen a monk meditating in the snow and he was so hot. He was in his underwear in the snow and he'd been there for 10 hours.

And then he was so hot that when they poured water on him, it was like hissing on him. It was always a friend of a friend who saw it though. Like I didn't see it with my eyes. So I don't know. Exactly. Yeah. A friend of mine once was listening to a guy say

that he did, I don't know if it was Ayahuasca or something, was just having some trip in the desert in the Southwest and said that there was a shaman there and he's like, I swear he made the stars move around. And my friend was like, well then what the fuck are you doing here? He's like, if I saw somebody make the stars move around, I would be there forever.

How do you do that? But I'm struggling to function at the moment because it feels like on Instagram every day I'm scrolling past huge paradigm shifting pieces of news about quantum physics or like the pyramids now, these structures underneath the pyramids they found. Andy! I don't know. This is wild. They have found.

And it's legit. Well, we should get someone to Google. But Google... So under the pyramids, they found like huge... It goes down kilometers, cylindrical structures that we didn't know were there. The Pyramids of Giza, like nine cylinders. And I mean, if it's true and...

Like some kind of silo. Yeah, some kind of like that they had some advanced energy system. I don't know, but I just, it's hard to synthesize these things. And I feel like science is bridging the gap between like, sort of weird esoteric spirituality and then... Yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, science. Yeah.

So how are we gonna, like, if we found out tomorrow we're in a simulation, what do we do? Just keep going. Just have breakfast. Just, yeah, if we found out tomorrow we're in a simulation, what do we do? Just keep going. Just have breakfast. Just, yeah, have breakfast and go, huh, how about that? You know? Because I don't, I wouldn't do ayahuasca, would you? I don't think so, no.

Yeah. I'm too old. Maybe when I was younger I would have, but yeah. And honestly, the throwing up and the, and pooping in a bucket. Like, again, like that just, that is, I mean, because like I said, I've, you know, I've had experiences with hallucinogenic drugs. So I understand kind of what they're talking about. So I just don't think it's gonna be that transformative.

I think I'm gonna get to the other side of it and be like, wow, that was crazy. Anyway, back to work. Yeah. And like, I feel awful from puking for hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think when you're a teenager, you feel invincible. And so you can kind of, you have fewer bad trips

because you're like, but now I have all the responsibility and fear would creep in and I'd have a bad trip. Yeah. Well, and I also too have the push-pull. Got some stuff. Yeah, what does it say? So claims that an underground city exists beneath ancient Egyptian pyramids.

Here's the part, have caused a row among experts. So researchers and experts are battling. So we'll see. So it's not 100% corroborated. Yeah, it's not 100% corroborated, but there's definitely a bunch of stories about it. Yeah. But is it in Indiana Jones where they have the area where anything that they found archaeologically

that doesn't fit into our timeline of history, they just put it in? Yeah, they just dump it into a warehouse. Yeah, that was one of the most appealing ideas of that. It's like a warehouse full of crazy mystical shit. I have a push pull in me between wanting to be open, wanting to be optimistic, wanting to be open to lots of different beliefs, and then a very kind of like realistic Midwestern kind of like, that sounds too good to be true.

I know. That sounds too, and I imagine Canadian, you know, in Canada, it's kind of, I always think of Canada as just being like one big Midwest. Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate. You know what I mean? Because the people are pretty grounded and, you know, humble. Yes.

Like in Canada, they really make fun of kind of the LA, like, you know, everybody's doing crystal sound baths and things like that. But yeah, I think you're right. And then sometimes I think, is all of this just because things are bleak, we're desperate for it to be like a simulation or maybe there's parallel realities just because we're like, oh, we messed this one up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What do you think was so appealing about comedy to you? Do you have any notion of how it spoke to you? Yeah, I think I was such a deep fan of so many people. And maybe, I mean, I specifically remember watching Conan and being like, it was the first time I'd seen someone, because my parents listened to George Carlin

and Steve Martin and stuff, and we had the vinyls. But seeing someone who was making fun of themself and kind of, yeah, pointing inward and I don't know, and making themself this kind of grotesque creature and doing that little voice and stuff, I was like, oh, if I, because that's how I felt. And so if you can say the things that you're worried other people are thinking about you and kind of take power back in that way.

Right, exactly. Yeah, so it was nice. Yeah. And being at high school and feeling super weird and probably, you know, trans and confused. And then going to a comedy club with adults that night where I could be applauded for saying the weird things about myself, you know? It was a totally different, yeah. Was that, did you find that?

Because comedy clubs aren't always the most welcoming, you know, progressive places. I know, and it- It was just that it was Toronto? I mean, were you at particularly open clubs that were, you know, a young kid, however old you were, 15, 16, like, you know, talking about possibly being trans or I don't know what, you know.

I was, I talked about like dating girls and stuff and that, and yeah, I mean, when I started was 2001 and definitely it was like I'd be going up after someone who the punchline of their joke was like yeah I mean yeah it was bitches be crazy yeah bitches be crazy yeah yeah like fags and like and then I'd go up and and and so it's really shifted now but it definitely was a different time but I think I just found the people who were like a bit more anarchic or, or in that, I mean, like second city is where I was most of the time. And then I so idolized the kids in the hall who, when I look back, were so transgressive in the 90s. Like that, like gender bending kind of rebelliousness.

It was, yeah, but there was a good heartedness too. And like, it wasn't mean same with Tom Green. I just watched that documentary on, on Amazon that he made and I was like man yeah he was really yeah yeah just not mean. Just there was a silliness and yeah I liked that. Yeah yeah. When you come back I mean because you kind of obviously had to get sober in order to really start getting serious about work. Totally. Was there any thought when you got sober like I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna do something other than comedy or was it always just gonna be comedy?

I was worried about um because there were a lot of drugs in the comedy scene in Toronto at that time. Yeah. Specifically it was just... Is it just drugs or is it alcohol too? Just drugs. Yeah. I've never really... Cared? Cared about drinking.

Yeah, yeah. I drink, but I never wanna be drunk two days in a row. You know what I mean? Yeah, there's things that are a problem and things that aren't. Yeah, exactly. For every individual, yeah. Totally.

And I think just in that specific time in Toronto, which is like a pretty small comedy scene really, just there was a lot of coke around. So I had to distance myself from that. And then I moved to England when I was like 21. And then so that was a fresh start. And yeah, no, it was always going to be comedy. I went to Shiatsu massage school for two years. Oh wow. Got my diploma. Wow. Well, after this, if you don't mind.

Yeah. Yeah. Um. Can't you tell my love's a girl? Do you feel, I mean, you can tell me to fuck off with this question, but when you're going through, you know, these addiction issues and your parents kick you out at 16, is there resentment on your part towards them for kind of, do you feel like they were washing their hands of you or did you give them no choice?

I go back. No, now there's no resentment. At the time, for sure, it was confusing and hard and... I go back, no, now there's no resentment. At the time for sure it was confusing and hard. I bet it was terrible for them too. I'm sure, yeah, exactly. I think we all just had limited tools and it was a total place of fear they were coming from.

Yeah, there was no fluency around, I don't know, there was a real sense that, yeah, people doing drugs just wanted to party and there was no kind of understanding that addiction is a symptom of some deeper unhappiness usually. And yeah, so no, no resentment anymore. And we just don't, we don't talk about it. Really? You don't talk about it?

Yeah, yeah. We just moved on. It was rough, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I put them through a lot and we all don't, we don't talk about it. Really? You don't talk about it? We just moved on, it was rough, you know? And I put them through a lot and we all made mistakes. Yeah. Yeah. And well, it could also be there's just not much to talk about anymore too, you know? I mean. We gotta talk about the pyramids, you know? Yeah, exactly.

And the puppets. Yes, the pyramids and puppets. Yeah. So when you come back, what drove you to England? I mean, was it just to kind of change the scenery and your dad was from there, so you had family there, obviously. Yeah, I had my passport and I was dating someone who wanted to go do a master's degree there. And so I kind of just thought I'll tag along for a couple of years and then come back.

And then I fell in love with it and started doing the Edinburgh Fringe every summer. And it was like a very wholesome kind of, it felt like I was having my university experience, you know, doing that every summer. And I loved the theatricality of, or like, yeah, the, I don't know. There was different genres of comedy going on that I wasn't, yeah, where people weren't just polishing like a 20-minute club set. They were building, like, sort of bizarre experimental hours and all kinds of shit was...

Yeah, yeah. Was it as bro-y there as it is here? Like, was there still that kind of... Because, I mean, that's... In a different way, though. There's real class division there. And there's a real problem, I think, of... Like, there's a lot of Cambridge and Oxford kids.

And in North America, I feel like there's a rich sort of working class history of comedy as well. And middle class. And then there, I kept thinking, how are these kids affording to go to the Edinburgh Fringe every summer and like not have day jobs and and I think that was oh they're rich yeah there was a bit of a kind of a clique I think there but that but no generally like less outwardly bro-y yeah yeah yeah is class kind of like England's race I mean I've only visited there. You know what I mean? Like races are sort of original sin, sort of like everything you could,

every problem we have, you can kind of find a way to lead it back to race. Do you think that class is kind of? Well, I think race is also their race. Is it also, it's race, yeah, okay. Because they've got these, the history of their colonialism and stuff. But yeah, class is interesting there because you can hear in someone's voice right away.

Yeah. Like whereas here, it's less easy to tell right away, but there you truly can hear from their voice, you know. And I guess too, just generally speaking, there's more upward, like the whole point of this country was there was more upward mobility. Yeah. there's more upward, like the whole point of this country was there was more upward mobility. Yeah, there's like deeply entrenched kind of generational wealth there. It's interesting, yeah.

Have you worked there and spent time there? I haven't really worked there. I've only kind of been there as a tourist. And I would love to go, my wife actually has a, she's from here, but she lived there for 10 years and has a dual citizenship so we could easily go and hang out there for a while. And my daughter too, my youngest daughter has a UK passport too. So yeah.

When things get rough here. Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, cause I mean, do you think about that with Canada or what do you have? Do you have both a Canadian and a UK passport? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I do think about it. And then- Could you have it? Do you have both a Canadian and a UK passport? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I do think about it. And then- Could you have a Greek passport too?

No, they were only there for five years. Okay. Yeah, my brother- I just want you to have as many passports as possible. Yeah, thanks man. Yeah. I think your brother could if he was born there.

I know at one point, cause they still have mandatory military service. So I remember at one point it was like, were worried he was going to have to go in. Oh, that's right. I had a friend in Chicago who was born there, but grew up in Chicago and went back to take his military service. He wanted to. Yeah, because he wanted to keep his citizenship, dual citizenship.

And he ended up staying and he lives in Kal his citizenship, dual citizenship. And he said, and he ended up staying, and he lives in Kalamata now, but he said it was like summer camp. Oh, man, I can imagine. He said it was like, there were like guys with like long hair and earrings. No way. Like oiled up. Yeah, yeah. They just were like, yeah, it's like weird hippies. And just they're like, yeah, okay, you know. Playing soccer on the beach.

Yeah, fire a rifle every now and then and you know. Yeah, there wasn't much going on. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, the Greek army is not a, I'm not aware of it as a feared fighting force. No. No offense, Greek army. The cool thing about Corfu is there's,

it was significant in the second world war and sometimes they'll find like an unexploded bomb or something, or I'm not saying this is cool. That's cool. Cool things. Yeah, yeah. Send the kids out with malice to just pound on things. Yeah, yeah.

No, I mean, it's interesting, yeah. As you're sort of discovering your identity and stuff, because you're, I mean, so much of your work has been discovering your identity and stuff, because you're, you know, I mean, so much of your work has been about your identity. Yeah. I guess so is everybody's, but did comedy help you find that out, or did you find that out and then kind of decided to...

That's a good question. To put it through your comedy, or to share it through your comedy. Yeah, like, well, I remember when I was 16, like the first thing that was ever written about me was a review of a set I'd done, and it was like, the headline was introducing gay May, and I hadn't talked about, I don't think I even,

Wowee! I know. Yeah. I wasn't even, Jesus, that's presumptuous. I think I just looked super gay, or like I was probably, I don't know. But so I wonder sometimes about, yeah, if like the two, because it's always the prefix to my name and stuff.

So it's like, part of it is me exploring it on stage. Part of it is like, I can't get away from it. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, maybe it helped. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Definitely, I made a show show like a autobiographical comedy drama about, and it had a, I was sort of figuring things out in real time and filming in the pandemic. And I'd written this character

who had all this gender dysphoria, and who was me, called Meg. And I was 35, or no, I was 30 at the time. And then, so doing the second season, I was like, well, I guess we got it. This character narratively should figure out. Should advance. Yeah, should like evolve and like self-reflect and figure out their identity.

And then I had to personally do that and that really helped. So making that show definitely was pretty transformative because it was in the pandemic too it was in a little bubble and I got to so it was pretty late in life that I kind of figured out like gender stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I was 35 when I had top surgery and it's pretty late but I'm so happy. Yeah. Do you ever miss, do you ever like feel like you miss not, like having missed school? Or have you educated yourself enough that you feel like? I don't, did you go to university?

You went to university? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't graduate. Really? Yeah, I went to film school and I came like within inches of graduation and then realized like, eh, nobody, any job that I'm going to want isn't going to give a shit.

Exactly. Yeah. I sometimes wish I'd had the social university experience, but no, I don't. I think I knew what I wanted to do so young. And then I just try to read and I don't know. I went to one school for grade 10 that was like a weird alternative school in a house and it had like 40 kids. And it was, everything I retained, I learned in that one year cause it was just really weird. And the teachers were so passionate and they kind of made up their own curriculum.

They were teaching like the doctor, strange love and like ancient Greek and things. They were, they were weird. They did a whole unit on the Bible and the Iliad and the Odyssey. And I just was like my brain lit on fire and it just makes you think so about what an impact teachers have. Like just where was this in Toronto? I was in Toronto. Yeah.

When I was like 14 or something. Wow. Yeah. And then I I moved to a big high school so I could fly under the radar because it was too much. Forty kids and like five teachers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 40 kids and like five teachers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just leave me alone, please. Are you in touch with any of your teachers from school or university?

I'm not. Really? I'm not. And there was one that I, the one in high school that I should have kept up with, but just, you know, it's. Yeah. I don't know.

I don't have a lot, I'm not in touch very, you know, I have people that are sort of on a Christmas card list. Right, right, right. And that's about it, you know? Yeah. But it's been, you know, I'm 58. It's been, it's a long life. It's further away. I can't let go of these connections and then it's exhausting.

Yeah, yeah. I feel like I'm so nostalgic and I'm always like, yeah, messaging people I was in a karate class with when I was 10. Yeah. Are you on Facebook? Yeah. I've got to get off Facebook. I know I'm going to be a user.

I was on Facebook for a minute and then ages ago I was like, no, no, I don't. This is too much. And then what about on Instagram? Do you like search for your enemies? Your own bullies? Only rarely, only rarely do I. But I do keep up. Like I just, you know, there's a friend of mine that I was reading, there's New York Times has a thing called Wirecutter, which is they, it's a product review and they do, you know, it's like they product review stuff. And there was something about retinol creams and I noticed the byline was an old friend of mine.

Oh no way. Yeah, yeah. And I just reached out to her on Instagram, just saying, hey, you know, cause we haven't talked in a few years. We had little bits of Instagram kind of stuff that I hadn't even really remembered. Yeah.

When I went to Instagram and I saw, oh, we have talked a little bit, but yeah, I mean that kind of thing, but like enemies, I don't really have it. You know, I don't really have that many enemies. Yeah. You know, just loved ones that turned into enemies. Yeah, exactly. That kind of thing. Yeah.

That's why I know Instagram's not good. Cause when I go to my recent searches or I go to look for someone I see I keep looking at the same people just masochistically. Yeah. Yeah. But why am I looking at those people just X's and like, yeah, this is I'm reminded by what I was going to that you're reminding me of what I wanted to ask, which is in working in a sort of thinly veiled autobiographical vein, do you sometimes regret? Like, is there sometimes like you feel like, oh, fuck, this is too much about me. And whether I'm sharing too much about me or just, I wish I was just making up stuff about a character that is not me.

One billion percent. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think with Feel Good, that series I made in England, I'd never acted before or made TV, so I kind of dove into it not knowing what it would feel like to then film it and release it. And so I didn't self-edit at all.

And then it felt really personal and exposing. And when that process was done, I was like, I just wanna do dumb improv and like just be silly. And so I really enjoyed doing that for a long time. And then, yeah, it's, yeah. Sometimes I'm like, it's not as confessional as, it's like my vibe is confessional. So like I'll go up and do a set of the,

I think is observational comedy about like the weather. And then people afterwards are like, that was so vulnerable. And I'm like, am I quivering? Like what energy am I giving off that it feels so vulnerable? But I don't know. Yeah. I just have been doing music and I like that because you don't have to be as directly confessional.

You can use metaphor and lyrics. Yeah. Are you in therapy and have you been in therapy? That's a really good question. Yeah. Yeah. I have been and I should be. Yeah.

I've never found someone who I stuck with for like more than a year. Yeah. I had this woman I loved and then in the pandemic, she was like, I said, so can we switch to Zoom? And she was like, no, I'm gonna just keep seeing people at my office. And I was like, oh, but I thought you weren't allowed. And then she said, listen, between you and me,

the hospitals are empty. This is all a hoax. And I was like, oh my God, I loved this therapist. And I was like, I can't trust anything you say. Oh, that's terrible. It And I was like, I can't trust anything you say. That's terrible. It was a bummer, yeah. So I wanna find someone.

It's just, I make excuses. What about you, are you? Yeah, I've been in therapy for a thousand years. Same person? Yeah, same person. I do, and I do feel very lucky in that way, but I had been, one thing I have to, the one thing I do give my mother credit for

is that she was always very accepting and open about, when I was a kid and there were issues in our family, she said, we're going to family counseling. Oh, great. Which is, you know, therapy. Yeah. It was called family counseling. And so I never got the sense of feeling ashamed about it

or feeling that it was somehow, I don't even understand. I mean, I can hear people say that, oh, it's weakness, or I'm afraid to examine these things, and I just cannot process, like what the fuck are you talking about? That's really unusual though for someone. Like that's amazing that your mom is like that. Yeah, I know.

It was, and it was very useful. And I threw out like when I got to college, you know, I availed myself of the counseling services there. And then, you know, and then even, you know, later, I, when I was, and I suffered from depression pretty badly. In your 20s or? Right after they dried me off out of the womb.

I was the beginning of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah, since just starting as a little kid, and also just from being from a group of depressives and it being at times looking back and feeling like it was just like this, you know, like, what is that above us? Oh, it's a big gray umbrella we constructed all of us together. Yes.

And then, you know, finding that, you know, the depression itself sort of worked toward its own self-preservation, both personally and seemingly as a unit, you know, my family. So like those neural pathways or you get addicted to an emotion. Like, yeah. Yeah. Or just like, honestly, it's like a legacy or a family secret or, you know, like, or you know, this is what our family does. Yeah. You know, we're sad and judgmental and, you know, and taking a long time to get away from that. That's like the family crest. Yes, yes. Whatever it is in Latin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think conversely, I was keenly aware as soon as I could think that my parents had just lost a child before me.

And so I felt like our thing is we cheer up and we keep going and I'm here to cheer everybody up. And also I haven't experienced that massive loss. so I felt like I shouldn't, why should I be sad, you know? But of course. Oh really? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like I felt like that was disrespectful or something for me to be upset. Did they make, I mean, how aware of you were the fact that a child had died? Like did they tell you right away?

Was it something they talked about a lot? I don't remember when I first learned, but yeah, they kept his memory alive, and I knew it was, but it was also something not really talked about. But yeah, it was, I mean, now I can see that that was a, yeah, that would have massively impacted those early years in my family.

And yeah, but they were doing an amazing job of like, what do you do? Like, I think with therapy too, it's like you were saying like a lot of that generation, it's like you've constructed this house of cards and it's working. It's functioning and you're accessing joy. And it's like, why would I start to? Pick at it. Yeah. But I'm gonna find someone.

The idea of a quick fix appeals to me and I just heard about this place, you go for a week and they do everything. But I know like the amazing thing about therapy is it's relational and there are things you can only heal in the safe container of a relationship with one person, with a therapist. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, it is, but you know,

my therapist is from the school, and it's kind of Freudian, but it's sort of a, you know, a modern sort of Freudian, but I don't know that much about him. Like there's not, and I found this to be a difference from having lived both in California and in New York. California, and I, cause I've been to therapists here and they love to tell their story.

You know? And it's, you know, and I understand like there's, you know, I relate to what you're saying and here's what happened to me and maybe what happened to me can be instructive to you, my patient, but in New York, I found him to be like, no, you don't get to know whether I'm married. You don't get to know whether I have kids. And so, like, you know, like my therapist,

I've been talking to him now, it's like 30 years. Wow, yeah. And he was divorced for like years and years. And you had no idea? And I had no idea. Wow. He can't, in fact, I found out because he came, when he was out here, he came to the Conan show. Yeah.

And he was, and I, you know, and then the next session, I'm like, that wasn't your wife. And he's like, oh, I got divorced. Oh my God. Eight years ago or something like that. Yeah, yeah. So. And I was like, wow, okay, you know.

But it does kind of keep it about me. And the only way he talks about himself is, and at times I get bored with it, like if I'm late or if I forget a session, and I'm like, I'm sorry, he's like, well, why do you feel so sorry? I'm like, oh, fuck you. Because I'm being polite.

I hate when people are mad at me, and that has actually been a big boundary of therapy because I'm a flake and I'm bad at time management. I'm very ADHD and my schedule's all over the place. So I hate canceling and then having a therapist be mad at me. And they're like, why do you think I'm mad at you? Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

No, and we now communicate by phone. Yeah. And all my therapy now communicate by phone. Yeah. You know, like all my therapy sessions are by phone because he's in New York City. And that's very convenient and very easy. Yeah. And it's weird because when I go there now and sit across from him, it's kind of almost

like, like, it's like, I'm not used to looking at your face while I talk to you, you know. So you prefer phone to Zoom or something? Yeah, we just never, you know, we started with phone and then we never sort of transitioned to Zoom and I'm fine with that. Because Zoom, you're looking at yourself as well. Yeah, and I just don't, I don't need to think about what's that on the bookshelf behind you, you know? I don't need to think about, and I I, because I do think about it. I

have my own attention issues. Yeah. So I want to, I want to talk about, you have a new series coming up called Wayward, which stars Toni Collette too. How about that? Yeah. She was incredible. I can't wait for people to see her. By the way, you just mentioned like you wrote this series and then you acted and you hadn't, like how did you handle, oh shit, I'm going to be acting now? With Feel Good, I really just was lucky I had cast friends in it who were really great

and I was, because it was so autobiographical, I just kind of re-traumatized myself and thought about real experiences. And then, yeah, this was really different. It was super fun. It was the first time I felt like excited by acting as a medium to play someone totally, I play a cop in it, like it's insane. Nice.

It's not pro cop though, I, you know, whatever. You didn't. I leave it in the cop. Yeah, leave it up. Let it be open for interpretation. I know. You could be pro that particular cop. There's cops in the world, they exist. And so when you're storytelling, especially with a thriller, sometimes there's cops.

Right, right, right. All my favorite things have cops in them. Right? Everything I want to watch on TV has some version of a cop in it. Whether it's a spy or whatever, you know. Adolescents, have you seen? Uh-uh. Oh man, you gotta watch it.

Okay. British. What's it on? Four episodes on Netflix. Okay. And each episode is one shot, an hour long one shot. Which sounds like a gimmick, but it is so affecting. I, yeah, no, it is, it does feel like a gimmick sometimes, but I also kind of dig it.

Oh, it's amazing. It's choreography, yeah. And the good ones you do forget about the fact that it's one shot, because then there's other times where it's one shot and I'm like, oh, how did they get through that doorway? You know, I'm thinking just from having worked how things happened.

Yeah, and like, are they hitting marks there on the floor? Yeah, yeah. And then like, how are... Yeah. But I mean, but in terms of like process, did you, do you just sort of take director's notes? Do you just feel like you're just kind of like... Yeah.

Do you have a theory of your own sort of acting, you know? Well, I went with, feel good. I was so nervous and I was obsessed with my face and being like, well, okay, in this scene I'm sad, so how do I make my face look really sad? Yeah, yeah. Like, what is my face doing? So aware of being observed and where the camera was.

Right. And then my friend was like, if you just feel sad, your face will look sad. And I was like, oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. No, I don't really have a process at all,

but it's really just like having great actors around you. Absolutely. And I, you know, cause I, I'm just always curious because I, I still have an insecurity about acting because I don't really have a lot of training, but I do have a lot of experience in actually being paid to act.

And so therefore I act. And there's part of me that's like, eh, you know, it's not a... You know how like when you try and want something, like you're playing a little prank and you want someone to think that you're angry and then you mimic what it's like to be angry. That's it. That's pretty much it.

Or at school playing house or make believe games. My friend who went to drama school and everything was like the only difference is like an actor, if you say get on the floor and bark like a dog and commit, they will do it and commit. And so much of it is just not being embarrassed and to really commit and really, and letting go of that, especially as comedians, I feel like there's a lot of self-consciousness and- Yeah, that's, I mean,

and it's interesting to hear that because improv did that. Yes, yeah. Like, I didn't, yeah, I wasn't in theater classes being a tree or whatever. I was on improv being embarrassing myself. Suddenly you're playing an old lady or you're doing it. Yeah, exactly. Or being as unattractive as you possibly can be

and not worrying about that at all. Which is ultimately the most attractive quality in a person. Absolutely. I found filming wayward, I mean, the near opposite Toni Coll Collette and she's going for it, like what would be more humiliating than not also going for it? I'm really good. And it's impossible not to because everyone's so amazing.

Trying to get on her level. I love the description. A bucolic but sinister town, which is all, who doesn't want that? Right? Yeah, yeah, like, you know, at, you know, the house finders, whatever that show is, I, you know, I just, I want a bucolic but sinister town. All those kind of Murdoch mysteries are the jewel of British.

Yeah. Explores the insidious intricacies of the troubled teen industry, which is interesting. Yeah. And the eternal struggle of the troubled teen industry, which is interesting, and the eternal struggle of the next generation. So is that, I mean, is that something that like, because a lot of your work has kind of been about the vulnerability of the teen years, you know? And is that something that you're still sort of processing?

Yeah. And passionate about, I think. Like I, and that industry, my best friend got sent to one of these schools like Paris Hilton got sent to, you know, where they kidnap you in the night and handcuff you. She was gone for two years and eventually escaped, crawled under barbed wire and hitchhiked across the state. And it was so dangerous and she was just a pothead. And when she came back, her stories about the school, it was just like, yeah, very bizarre and culty and theatrical. So it felt like a good thing to hang a thriller genre on, but also, yeah, it's something I

care about. It's a billion dollar industry. It's so unregulated and like, yeah. And also does seem predicated on, because I personally know of a similar situation. Yeah. And my feeling always was, it was a much easier way for the parents to deal with a kid that they had problems with.

Out of sight, out of mind a little bit. Yeah, yeah. And they're, you know. And now we're doing what's best. Yeah. But really it's like, I wrote it, I threw money at a situation and got that kid out of sight, out of mind a little bit. And they're, you know. And now we're doing what's best. But really it's like, I wrote it. I threw money at a situation and got that kid out of here because that kid was kind of bugging me. And there, you know, if you're afraid

and then this school comes in with this glossy pamphlet and says, well, we're gonna return your kid to you fixed. And we have so many good results. Yeah, yeah. But what was so interesting in researching about these schools is like, and you kind of don't have to write it because they all come from, like the origins of them are cults in the 70s like Synanon and these, yeah, these cults that were shut down and disbanded but kind of rebranded as troubled teen institutes. But they still use these kind of

behavioral modification programs and really bizarre kind of theatrical therapies and like digging your own grave and standing in it overnight and like it is all so linked to Sinanon. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Oh, digging your own grave and that's just okay. I know, right? I know. But it's funny the show as well. Yeah. Because you Oh, digging your own grave. That's just okay. I know, right? I know. But it's funny, the show as well. Yeah. Because you put teens in any situation,

they're pretty funny. Yeah, they are pretty funny. Yeah. And pretty resilient too in a lot of ways. 100%, yeah. You also have a music album. Yeah. Come on, give it a rest.

What's going on? Tell me about that. I'm sheepish about it. Cause I just privately would get emotional and play music privately. And then I made, when I moved to LA, I had time and fewer responsibilities. And so I just paid for it myself and booked a studio

and got friends and recorded it. And I wasn't gonna put it out at all like maybe one on Instagram or something but then yeah I was proud of it and so we just released it and I went on tour with it and it yeah it was it I loved it you went on tour just playing music or was it music and comedy just music like great it was really surreal do you have like rock star dreams like you, like fantasy rock star dreams? I didn't think I did, but I, this felt like- Obviously, yes.

Yeah, clearly it was like true wish fulfillment. Like, but I had to unlearn the muscle memory of thinking I'm bombing, cause no one's laughing and like not having to break the tension constantly. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know how you love it when you're watching a music show and the musician

doesn't say hello for like two songs and then they go. Yeah, yeah. You know, but that's so anathema to me. So. Right, right. It was fun. And the tour opening night will be available to stream on April 5th? Yeah.

And it was my first ever music show, so don't judge it too harshly. Like, I just practiced with the band. Oh, you don't get to tell me whether I judge something harshly or not. It's your family motto. I forgot. Yes. Yes. We judge. Actually, you know what? The German translation of Richter is judge. Are you serious? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, oh, I was just thinking about Judge Rinder.

That's something else. Richter. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Because Richt means right, you know. Right, of course. The type of person who decides what's right. That's hilarious. That's me. That's really funny. You also do the podcast Handsome with the very, very funny Tignitaro and Fortune Famester. It's a delight. Oh my gosh, those guys are so funny. That's got to be... Is that a weekly thing? Do you guys do every week every week? We try and sometimes we'll bank a few episodes,

but oh man, we didn't know each other that well before this and then Tig kind of threw it together. And it's just like, I mean, you know, the joy of being made fun of by someone really funny. You know that well. It's the best. It's the best and Tig is so good at it. And it's, yeah, it's just the best.

And I personally, my favorite part of doing this It's the best. And Tig is so good at it. And it's just the best. And I personally, my favorite part of doing this for a living is being with the funny people. Me too. The audience is nice and I like making people happy and I like making money, but it's being with funny people and making each other laugh is just, it's the best thing in the world. 100% collaborating and yeah, we have so much fun doing that.

We're doing some live shows coming up and yeah. That's great. Yeah. Well, what do you see going forward? I mean, you're, are you married by the way? I don't know if you're married. No, no. No, I'm so single right now.

Oh, you're single right now, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I know you were together with somebody that had a child. I now. Oh, you're single right now? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know you were together with somebody that had a child. I was. And I learned a lot from that. When we were talking about Corfu and my parents, I thought, yeah, that is, I hope there's some big life adventure unrelated to work in my near future.

I'm so ready for that. Yeah. I really learned that I'm ready to, I don't know I'm ready to like, I don't know, step up and be, I don't know, that area of my life is always a little chaotic and it was really nice. Yeah. Do you see yourself, I mean, do you like the split in your life of doing, well now you've got stand-up music and creating television shows. I mean, are you going to push forward with that triumvirate? Yeah, I think so, but I'd love to not.

Why not do it all while you can? Right. Just whatever is feeling exciting. But it would be really nice to not do them simultaneously all the time. Yeah. I have real scarcity mentality still and say yes to everything and I'm like, I got, you know, yeah. Is that because, cause I used to have like a gotta chase every dollar.

Yes, yeah. Is it a money thing or is it just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a money thing, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I understand that. Maybe from my teens from like sleeping on couches and stuff and like just, I never thought, I just bought a house in LA and I never thought. Oh wow, congrats.

Thanks. And I'm like, but I now I'm stressed that I'm house poor and I'm like, I got what am I gonna do? So, but it would be nice to be able to carve out like I'm only doing music for a few months and then I'm doing standup. Yeah, but it's not working that way. No, no, it's like even today,

I'm doing all four things today, like separately. Is that what you would like? Is that the ideal for you going forward would be to be like four months music, four months stand up, four months TV? That'd be amazing. I mean, TV kind of always ends up filling a full year, but at least like with stand up you have to be doing it regularly if you're building an hour or something. And now I'm kind of you know a

couple times a month only I'm doing stand-up. I'd love to take a chunk and figure out what I want to say and do polish stuff. Yeah. Yeah. What about you? Because you're similarly like doing lots of different things. I mean, I just, I really miss making television shows. And I mean, I don't even know what the fuck is going on anymore. And you know, like friends of mine that are peers are, we're all kind of like, what the hell's going on here? I know. I mean, a very well- successful, comedic actor was in here

who has a podcast and he was like, why am I doing a podcast? Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, you know, cause you gotta do something that, you know, and I love doing this podcast. I also have a radio show that I do on Wednesdays that I'd love for you to come by sometime.

I'd love to, yeah, yeah. But, you know, it's fun. Yeah. It's fun. Like I like talking to. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, it's fun. It's fun. Like, I like talking to you, and I like, and I don't talk to anybody I don't wanna talk to. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's amazing. So, this is really fun, but it isn't making TV.

It isn't, I mean, I've, you know, I also have directed television commercials, and I mean, honestly, I don't need, I don't need anybody to, you know, like in terms of like famous or like, oh, I don't need anybody to, like in terms of like famous or like, oh, I've got a hit show. I just wanna make things. And if I just could make television commercials enough

to keep things going, that would be fine with me. Cause it's just- Being on set. Being on a set and making funny stuff with funny people is really all I really care about anymore. Yeah. It is the best feeling. It's what gives you the feeling you have as a kid doing a school play. Yeah. That's the best.

And also too, it's my craft now. It's what I've been doing my whole life. Yeah. And it just, it's, I feel sometimes like a carpenter and like nobody will let me have any ham or any wood or nails. Right. You know, it's like. We're in a any ham or any wood or nails. Right. You know, it's like... We're in a weird moment. It's very strange.

Yeah. It does feel like everything has to be a murder mystery or have like a, like everything has to have such high stakes. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It's confusing. Yeah.

And I mean, well, yeah. We could go deep on that. We sure can. We could bitch about that all day long. Well, what do you find, like do you have like some sort of like lesson that you hold on to or some sort of like, you know,

advice that you would give people or, you know, like the thing that you've learned most out of... Out of this life. This life? Yeah, yeah. Oh man, I really like... Anytime I think I've cracked it, some bomb comes along. Like I really thought I was done learning big, big lessons about love and stuff.

And I'm like, I would love to learn no more lessons. But I think... It doesn't happen. It never happens. It never ends. It just keeps going. Yeah. It gets less tumultuous. Right. In some ways. Yeah. And like it isn't like you're, it doesn't feel like a 50 ton rock fell on you. It's just like a 20 ton rock. Yeah. You know, it's like a new, the new. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What's my lesson?

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I'm a mess. I think like, no, I'm not a mess. You're not a mess. No, I'm not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that the more specific and personal you are, even in terms of how you organize your time

and what you like to do, like the more you, yeah, self-reflect and find your specific idiosyncratic interests or, you know, weird quirks and stuff. I think that's where your happiness is gonna lie and what people will ultimately connect with and not even in the entertainment industry, just in life, I think.

I think just that authenticity, I think it's just such a waste of energy trying to be something you're not in any way. Like, yeah, I don't know. That's what came to me in the moment. I- Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, it's sort of like, know yourself. And be involved in that pursuit, I think is kind of important. And you know. What brings you joy.

Fucking changes too. It's like who you are is always evolving. Yes, let yourself evolve. Yeah, what else? I've been reading this Dean Slider. He's this guy, he writes, actually you'd love, I think, he has a book called Cinema Nirvana where he's looking at like the Godfather, the graduate, like famous films and finding Zen parables and like using them to talk about Buddhism and stuff. But anyway, he wrote a book called Fearless

about meditation and stuff and anxiety and addiction and I'm reading that and thinking about like how to drop into that peaceful place and not get caught up in like the waves on the surface. I don't know, I haven't figured it out though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Well, you know, that's somebody that I knew I knew who was a like legit Buddhist when I said, well, how about this? How does it work? This whole trying not to try? Yeah. You know, like,

you know, like you must focus on being unfocused kind of it always seems to me, it always seemed to me like it was a contradiction. And what he said was, you never succeed. Yeah. Like, you're never going to get the hang of it. It's just, it's always the pursuit of that. Of like, yes, you're trying to not try so hard and you're focused on being open, which seems, you know, like focused and open are two different, but it's, but you know. And not judging yourself for not getting there faster

and not, yeah. Yeah. And the fact that you're never, you know, you are a cake that is going to be baking until the day you die. You know, you're just, you're always, you're always forming, at least you should be. I, the one kind of, we were talking about psychedelics and stuff and I did a, this is so LA, but I did a sound bath and, uh, I was sober, but I,

I had a crazy experience and I, I, I felt like I encountered this kind of energy that wasn't mine. It was like something came to me and something said in my brain and it didn't feel like my consciousness saying to me. It felt like I heard it. Someone saying, just stop trying so hard. Stop trying so hard. And it felt really, it resonated.

That's great. Yeah, yeah. Stop. But no, I mean, I haven't, I haven't implemented that advice. Right, right, right. You're still trying pretty hard. Oh, I'm like sweating right now. Yeah, yeah.

But again, that's, you know, it's not, you're not going to stop trying so hard. You're not going to ever really, you know, but it's a good, it's a good, like to take, you know, take your foot off the gas a little bit. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Move to Corfu. Yeah.

This has been so lovely. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for coming. I'm such a fan and I've been really pumped. I want to, I want to remind everybody to check out Wayward. Do you know when it's? In a couple months, like the fall. I'm not allowed to say.

How dare you? I know I'm going to check it out because it sounds pretty fascinating and I'm such a fan of yours and I would love to see it. So thank you for being here. Thank you. And thank all of you for listening and I'll be back next week with more of The Three Questions. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rich Garcia. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive

produced by Nick Leow, Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista with assistance from Maddy Ogden. Research by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts. And do you have a favorite question you always like to ask people? Let us know in the review section. Can't you tell my love's a-growin'? Can't you feel it ain't a-showin'?

Oh, you must be a-knowin'. I'm not a big, big lover. This has been a Team Coco production.