The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Mike Birbiglia

Episode Date: December 17, 2019

Comedian, writer, and director Mike Birbiglia talks with Andy Richter about great screenwriting teachers, facing his own mortality at an early age, and transitioning into the world of one-man performance on and off-Broadway. Plus, Mike discusses how becoming a parent informed his latest show Mike Birbiglia: The New One.

Hi everyone, this is the three questions, which you probably know because it's hard to stumble upon a podcast accidentally. I'm Andy Richter, and I am very excited to have theatrical wunderkind Mike Birbiglia here with me today. We've been trying to make this happen for a while, and I'm very happy that you're here. You're a little under the weather, though. I'm thrilled. Yeah, I've just had this cough for two weeks of the five-week run in Los Angeles. So that's just been challenging.

You're doing a live show at the Amundsen. Live show at the Amundsen, yeah. So 40 performances. But yeah, it's this thing where you just try to make sure that the audience doesn't hear the coughs. You try to hide them here, hide them here. I have a thing with my sound guy where he kills the mic when i'm about to cough kind of nice yeah yeah it's like a whole thing yeah but it's you were describing it off mic i was like playing hurt it's a little bit like that it is it is it's always i um using my voice for a living i i had to, that was like a transition for me or a sort of evolution for me is just, I used to smoke cigarettes. And I mean, I quit in 2001, I think.

Wow. Maybe 2000, I don't remember exactly. No, 2001. And, but I would, I would, uh, lose my voice, you know, like two or three times a cold and flu season. And I started to just feel like, yeah, this is not a good thing. You know, this is like, I don't know, like a football player getting, you know, breaking their leg frequently. Yeah. Um, and then, and then I used to smoke weed too.

And I had, and it was the same thing I had. It was like, it was like, I just, I can't smoke because it fucks up with my voice. And it is that thing, too, of like, I got to, you know, I got to be on TV. Totally. You know, I got to do this thing. The whole thing, when the show was on Broadway a year ago, my whole life revolved around essentially not getting sick. Yeah. Like, the whole thing was the goal all the time yeah and smoking or smoking weed those yeah those will hurt you yeah yeah but some people get away with everything i know some people oh i know chain

smoke and they drink and whatever and they stay some of these broadway stars they party and it's like i don't know how you do that i know i don't know either. You know, you just got to have the constitution for it. And, you know, it's just whatever particular model you are. And this particular model of human being, which is me, has respiratory issues and always has. And, like, you know, I'm constantly begging the people that produce this podcast, please take out the heavy, wheezy breaths that I make between when I'm reading the ad copy. It's like, are you feeling depressed? Put on the wheeze filter. Right, exactly. Well, how is this show going? How do you like, you know, for me, well, you're

a standup. So saying the same thing, doing the same thing is what you do. I'm an improv person. Yeah. And I was going to say, like, do you get done with the show? Like, do you get, like, you're doing 40 of them. Yeah, yeah. At, like, 30, are you like, you know, I'm ready to do something else. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

And then you have to find it on stage. Yeah, absolutely. Really. You go out and you try to find it yeah absolutely stage really you go out and you try to find it and occasionally i would honestly say like one or two times in the 40 this 40 run like i'm like oh i didn't have it but in general you can find it it's right there and and you just it's an acting exercise in the sense that of course you're just trying to relive what the pain was when you were, you know, when my daughter was six months old and my wife and I hadn't slept. And you're just, you're acting out a thing.

And then sometimes what I have to remind myself of is this thing that Philip Seymour Hoffman said in his Inside the Actor's Studio interview once. been said in his Inside the Actor's Studio interview once. He goes, I always love auditions, even when I was struggling, because it was the opportunity to act. Oh, wow. And I was like, oh, yeah. That's a really good way to look at it. Yeah, yeah. And performing the live show is the same thing.

I try to remind myself, no, I'm lucky that I get to perform this at all. It doesn't matter if I'm sick or I have a cough or stomachache. Like, no, this is a huge privilege. And I have to just remind myself of this sometimes. I remember when you used to smoke because I was an intern at late night in New York in 97, summer of 97. And you and I did a remote, which means we drove a van somewhere. Yeah.

And you performed a sketch somewhere. And I think I waited with you in the van while they set up the remote or something like that. Yeah. And you were like smoking. You were stepping out to smoke cigarettes and everything. But one of the things that this is, I think this is the unspoken of comedy. You were always so nice to me. Brian Stack was always so nice to me.

There's a certain contingent in comedy that's Midwestern. Yes. That's like genuinely nice. Precisely, yes. And it's a fascinating. There are some dicks from the Midwest. Yeah. But generally speaking, you know, it is something, there is something about it.

I don't know precisely what it is yeah i have my theories but yeah it's you know you're just kind of raised to not get too big for your britches that's right you know or whatever phrase you want to put on yeah you know i wonder what that is i don't know but it's definitely in the mix because like when i was at Conan, it's like they're interning. There was like certain people who were just, you know, they had walls up. They were not going to want to talk to you at all. But the Midwestern folks were so nice. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it's also – it is sort of a – because I'm not – like I don't know how you are, but I know a lot of people like this. And I generally consider myself kind of a shy person, which people don't – it doesn't compute to people because of what I do for a living. And, you know, and I'm affable, but I certainly don't, you know, like the other morning I was at a diner counter having breakfast and a guy sat down next to me and it struck me like there's two kind of like old dudes sitting at the diner counter, the kind that doesn't want to talk and the kind that's dying to talk. And I'm the one that doesn't want to talk and the kind that's dying to talk. And I'm the one that doesn't want to talk. Like I don't want to, you know, like, and it's the same thing. I always kind of, I always in a, I hate, it's, I hate attention in many ways. Like, like the notion of. Well, that was always the legend of like you, you going on Conan as a sidekick in the first

place was was was that robert smigel was just like oh it's good when andy is sitting there yeah you're writing for the show yeah well that was kind of it yeah that's like a kind of a crazy show business story in a sense i guess i don't yeah i mean i choose not to i think about that too much like dissect it too much yeah but no i just i kind, I like to be more left alone. I never, you know, and like this kind of affability that I have on screen. It's not so much anymore, but like I used to, you know, I used to be out with friends and someone would just come up and interrupt and put a hand on my shoulder and say, come over and have a drink with me and my buddies. And it's like, why the fuck would I do that?

I'm here with people you know um but i yeah so i i do think it's i don't remember why we started this but you know it is kind of like the midwestern thing yeah the midwestern thing i and it's you're like a midwestern introvert so you're nice but you're not out you're not extending yourself out yeah and. And I mean, I can be chatty at times, but largely, you know, I am polite and I am kind. And a lot of it is kind of civil. So because when you're talking about the people are sort of more withdrawn. Yeah. I mean, I'm withdrawn, but it mortifies me to think that I've hurt someone's feelings.

Exactly. I have the same thing. It's mortifying to me. Me too. My wife is a true, true introvert. And the reason I know that is because I thought I was. She's never spoken to you. Now you're going to get my cough gone.

Because she's never spoken to me, Andy. And that's what this interview is about today. You said you want to get married and she shrugged. She's. Do you take this man? Yeah. It's been a series of grunts and groans and nods. And here we are.

That's all it really takes. And we're happy. Sure, of course. You're the talker really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I didn't know that what an introvert really was until I met her because I was an introvert before that. And then when in our dynamic, I'm like, oh, no, she's an introvert. I mean, this is like, and I have a

joke in the book. She and I wrote a book together that comes out in the spring and it's like, her poems and my, she expresses herself in poetry and it's beautiful, but it's like, that's how she expresses herself. If you want to understand what she's thinking about, read her poems. You know, it's like, it really is a much more than talking to her. And, and I have this line in the book where I say, I'm an, I'm, I'm an extrovert, which means I get energy from other people. And my wife is an introvert, which means she doesn't like you or she, or she might like you, but she's going to need me to explain why we're leaving the

party because that's my role in the marriage yeah it's like me always being like so we're gonna go because we have a cat yeah you know yeah yeah and people are you know now they have a child you can yeah the child is oh my god oh the kid gets you out of everything. How old are your kids? Two, right? Yeah, my son's going to be 19. Oh, no, wait, shit, he just turned 19. I'm wrong. I keep saying gonna. He was 19 yesterday. Stick to the script, Andy.

I know, I know. The script says he's going to turn 19. What is it? Yeah, he turned 19 yesterday. Oh, my gosh. And my daughter is 14. Wow. And, yeah, so you don't get as much excuses out of them now because

they don't want to be with right right right you know i've heard this yeah yeah it's it's weird because you know parenting and i mean well we'll get into your show but you know parent and that's like for me your show i'm glad that it's doing well because it is like one of those things. There's a cliche among comedians that like having kids and starting to do material about kids is like jumping the shark. Yep. You know, it's like, oh boy, here we go. Now you're, you know, now you're Irma Bombeck or something like that. But it is like, I'm sorry.

It's how people are made. Yeah. It's a fairly important process. Yeah. And it deserves to be addressed. And I, you know, like having kids for me now, it does get to be bittersweet because if you're doing it right you are you are working towards them not needing you anymore so it gets you get like ouch when it's like they're like hey by the way i mean they're the subtext is dad you did a good job i don't want to be around you very much like

oh fuck i know ouch shit maybe i should have done a worse job. Yeah. And you've succeeded. Yeah, yeah. That's the success. Yeah. The success is they reject you. Yes. I've said it before in here. I heard something once where the original mission statement, and it supposedly still is, of police forces, when they started existing, was that they were working towards their own obsolescence.

They weren't just there to arrest people. They were there to sort of like Harbor, you know, an environment where they would no longer be needed. Like they would just promote lawfulness, you know, and parenting is very similar. You're always working towards not being needed. Yeah.

And, and, and you're working hard at making your job obsolete and yeah yeah and no longer good that's why one of the reasons i don't even mention this in the show but one of the reasons i never want to have a child was because i never wanted to meet myself as a teenager because i was such an asshole yeah like i remember as a kid in a teenager she's been like i hate you yeah. This is like, oh, my God. This is like a Ponzi scheme.

But you get, doesn't it just kind of, I mean, and I know in the show, you sort of back into parenthood. And I don't know. I mean, is some of that like. And by the way, if people want to see it, it's on, I think when this drops. I don't know when this drops. I think it'll be on Netflix right now. Mike Birbiglia, the new one.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, when will that start? The 26th of November. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. It'll be, oh, yeah, yeah. So people want to know what we're talking about. It's the new one on Netflix right now.

But I imagine, like, were you as conflicted, as you say, in the show? Oh, yeah. Oh, really? Oh, I was so, you know, I didn't make the joke. It was like, you know, I was very clear when we got married that I never wanted to have a kid. That is one of the things that I don't know if it's an extrovert and introvert quality or separate entirely. But I am a, I am someone who really believes in communication.

Yeah. And I, that's what the, and that's what the show is about in a lot of ways. It's about like, I'm going to say how I really feel because I think that there's healing in, in that and saying how you really feel. And yeah,

I was, I was like very clear. Like when Jen and I got married, like I, I definitely do not want to have kids. And she said, I don't want to have a kid now. And I don't foresee that, but I don't, I don't view my life that way, which is a fair statement. I don't view my life in absolutes that I would never. I completely relate to that. I mean, how can, yeah. How can any, you know,

it's a rare person that can be absolutely sure what they're going to want forever. Yeah. You know? Yeah, and in some ways, and I never thought about this until now. I mean, look, you changed. I changed. Yeah. Yeah, Jen always says that.

She always says it's so weird that you go to work and you talk about, like, this existential crisis of the first year of our daughter's life and how hard it was. And then, like, you know, meanwhile, our daughter's four and a half and we're playing with her on the beach and laughing our asses off and having a great time. And it's like, then I go to work and I'm like, and then, you know, like death of a salesman. The notion of this, it's the death of me. Exactly. Yeah. And that's actually helpful in terms of like when I feel sick or this or that, like there

is like, I do think of una my daughter and i and that and that sort of makes me happy like it it brings a smile to my face i think of my daughter yeah like when she was born and you know it's it's emotional yeah um now do you think because you know this this show is meant to be somewhat, you know, the three questions. The first one is sort of autobiographical about your history. Do you think that there was something about your childhood that informed your reluctance to not have children, aside from being an asshole when you were a teenager? Yeah, I think so.

I mean, was there something in your household that made you think, I don't want to replicate this? I mean, was there something in your household that made you think, I don't want to replicate this? I definitely never enjoyed my parents' relationship. That's not uncommon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you were the youngest, right? I was youngest of four. Of four, yeah. And I definitely, it was a mistake, you know, like I was definitely like a little bit of an afterthought.

I mean, my old, my sister, my oldest. Do they say you were an accident? Sort of. Yeah. I mean, if like I dig deep, they go, yeah, we weren't really thinking that this was going to happen. Yeah, yeah. And New Year's Eve party.

And so I'm young as a four. My sister Gina is 11 years older than me. So like I was in some ways raised by my parents, in some ways raised by like my two older sisters who were teenagers, you know, when I was a kid. And yeah, there's something about my parents' marriage was very old fashioned. My dad was very like, you know, he went to work all day. He was a doctor.

He wasn't around that much. When he was around, he was sort of cranky in this way that, like, made me sometimes very sad and sometimes very angry. And, you know, so you don't want to replicate that. Yeah. It's the thing. And there's a lot of great things about my dad. So many great things. He's very smart.

He's very caring. He's a great doctor. So many great things. He's very smart. He's very caring. He's a great doctor. But also, yeah, I just didn't want to repeat that. Yeah.

I thought of myself as separate from that. Yeah, yeah. And even becoming a comedian was very defiant in my house. My dad was a doctor, and he sent us, his whole thing was education, and he sent us to fancy schools. And, you know, it was, my dad was very, you know, and then being a comedian was really low class. I mean, in 19, when I got into comedy, when I was interning at Conan, it was like 1997. It's like, comedy wasn't like it is now. Yeah.

Where there's a certain, like, prestige element to comedy. It actually was. Or everybody wants to take an improv class or something yeah it was a it was a quite of a niche yeah uh appeal and and so and also uh just well i mean it still is a long shot but it seems like less of a long shot yes because there because of things like youtube and twitter and you you know yes you can you have all these avenues to be funny in public that's right that there weren't then you just either you had to go to some and i mean shitty

stand-up clubs yeah so many stand-up clubs are so fucking depressing to me i i mean i don't you know i don't maybe that's just me no they are yeah there's just like are you kidding me yeah there's such like a grimy floors grimy floors and fingers drunk uncaring audience kitchen yeah and then and then just sort of like this this miasma of like desperation and you know competition among people you know that yeah that's what that's what my movie don't think twice is literally all about yeah yeah inspiration of right exactly yeah but what's so funny is that like you're describing like these like hole in the wall kind of clubs and things like that and meanwhile like i saw i saw you in probably that summer of 97 before ucb theater existed when they

were doing ass catAP at Solo Arts. Yes. Which was, if I were to guess, I'd say like a fourth floor walk-up. It was. It was fourth or fifth. Yeah, and it was just – It was so small. It seemed like a sweatshop turned dance studio or something, you know?

Like it was like hardwood floors and kind of seemed like at some point there was light manufacturing in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So manufacturing yeah yeah yeah so yeah yeah it's i remember going there you know and even like you don't even get a chair you're like sitting on the floor i mean and and honestly the way i remember it with the through the rose-colored glasses of the of the memory is like it was carnegie fucking hall yeah yeah like it was the greatest place on earth yeah and and that's and and such is like the del Carnegie fucking Hall. Yeah, yeah. Like it was the greatest place on earth. Yeah.

And that's, and such is like the delusion that gets you into comedy in the first place. Yeah. You go to these sort of like hole-in-the-wall places and you're like, well, this is the greatest place I've ever been. It's total, you know, it was a rickety spot. Yeah, yeah.

When do you start thinking that you're going to do this? I mean, as a kid, I do this i mean as a kid i assume yeah as a kid i did and then were you always funny i mean were you kind of the class clown and the cut up and stuff i was always funny to me yeah yeah that was the that was like the dirty little secret of the whole thing i was always thinking like oh i'm very funny yeah yeah and then like you know i'd bring some of that to camp or school. People would be like, that's not funny. You know, he's funny.

You know, I always make the joke that the class clown is the guy who pulled his dick out in gym class. And everyone's like, Kenny's hilarious. I'm like, he's not hilarious. No, he's not. He's obvious. He's obvious. He's trying too hard. He's trying too hard.

And it's like, and then every now and then, I would have a thing. Like, I would go, like, I would be in student council or something. Like, some kind of nerdy activity. Yeah. Where I would be the funny person in that situation. Yeah. And I was like, I know I'm funny. I know some of these observations are funny.

And then when I got to college, that was like a huge breakthrough because then you're around a bunch of nerds. Yeah. I mean, because, you know, in high school, you got some nerds. Yeah. You go to college. No, it's just a narrowing of the nerds. Right, exactly. Well, and it's also just like, it's like a geographic crapshoot. It's just like

whoever lives in this area, that's who you're mixing with. Yeah. It's just like whoever lives in this area, that's who you're mixing with. So there's no culling process to like where you like share any kind of ethos or anything. That's right. Whereas when you go to college, yeah, there's a little bit, you know, the process winnows. And I definitely went through that from going from high school in a small town. I went to University of Illinois for two years, which, you know.

In Champaign? Yeah. Which is a, which, you know. In Champaign? Yeah. Which is a little bit, you know, more narrowed. And then from U of I, I went to film school in Chicago. And that was, you know, again, sort of like, oh, I'm with my people. Did you get your master's in film? I did not. Oh, okay. I didn't even get my bachelor's.

I got just close enough. And then I was already interning and working in film. And I realized, hey, you don't need this. this you don't need it you don't need a degree and um and even i felt like even if i didn't make it in film you know that was the first thing i was going to try and make it in the film business which is already you know something yeah and i thought my fallback to there would be it was chicago so it'd be advertising copywriter yeah you know that's what i thought and you don't need it's exactly yeah and you don't need a degree for that either you know that you just gotta be funny you know yeah um but then when i got to improv was the same thing it's like oh shit here finally i'm

with my people oh yeah yeah and that's how i felt in college. Yeah. And I auditioned as a freshman for the improv group, and they were teaching. Thank God. I mean, like, so much of this stuff is luck. I mean, I saw this speech. I highly recommend this speech if you want to watch a good commencement speech. It's Michael Lewis at Princeton from a bunch of years ago. And he says, if you're here, you're lucky. And that's the best thing that I can tell you. And never forget that you're lucky. And even if you're on scholarship,

if you're on this, there's a series of events that occurred in your life that got you here. And you owe a debt to society. And I think that's a really profound thing that I think is, that's often lost in the conversation is like, just how much luck there is. I got so lucky. I went to a college that just so happened. Where is it, Georgetown? Georgetown.

Yeah. That just so happened to, in my freshman year, I get cast, that's lucky. They- In the improv group. Yeah. I get cast in the improv group. Yeah. That's lucky. They- In the improv group. Yeah. I get cast in the improv group. Yeah. That's lucky. They just so happened to have formed the year before I showed up and

their favorite thing in the world was Sharna Halpern, Del Close, Truth in Comedy, the book. Yeah, yeah. And their goal that they worked on for two years, even a year before I was there, goal that they worked on for two years, even a year before I was there, we're going to try to bring Sharna Halpern and an IO house team to Georgetown to teach us workshops. Wow. Yeah. And so what luck. Yeah. So that happens.

What team was it? It was Frank Booth. Oh, okay. And it had Liz Allen, who's still one of my close friends. Yeah. And- That's a little, it's a little after me you know yeah chicago yeah yeah brian i'm trying to think brian boland they uh you know and they and charna came and and taught

this workshop and i even still have the book today from truth and comedy and she basically signed it and said like i'll see you in chicago when you move here kind of thing yeah yeah and it's just like that's all luck yep and then uh my my sister Gina happened to be in New York. She was an assistant at HBO and knew someone at Late Night who was a producer who helped me get an interview to intern. And then I ended up there. And then while I was an intern, I asked you and Brian Stack and Mike Sweeney and essentially like,

how do you become a comedy writer? Yeah. And everybody's answer was either I did improv or I did standup. Yep. So I went back to Georgetown and I did both. Yeah. A lot.

And I didn't really go to class that much. Eh, you don't need to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, really kind of, you know, like I said, I went to college and I went to film school and it was, it was more, you know, that was more, it was all just more kind of getting to know myself and getting to know how much drinking and how many drugs I could take, you know,

like that kind of thing. That's key, yeah. And just, you know, and yeah, and just starting on the path to purging the shitty programming that you get as a kid, you know. But I learned, everything I learned about show business, I learned in working. I learned, I got an internship working on commercials. And I learned, you know, you just, it's a workplace and you learn about the workplace and you learn about sort of the process by

observing and you learn about how to do different jobs by lying and saying you can do it and then doing it and faking it. Yeah. And then, and I mean, and that's informed my entire career as an actor is that, yeah, I work on film crews. And I've worked on all kinds of different jobs on film crews. And I happen to have weaseled my way into the sweetest spot on the film crew. You get your own little room. Everyone caters to you. They ask you if you want anything to eat.

They dress you. And they treat you know, they dress you, you know, it's, you know, and yeah. And they, and they treat you really, really well, but I still really try and remember that I'm a member of the crew. Yeah. And it is, and, and, you know, and that, that, I absolutely agree with you about the luck thing, because for me doing improv was, I was in Chicago and I, it was there. Yeah. I went to film school.

I was funny and I wanted to write, but I have such terrible fucking ADD that the blank page has always been my enemy. Yeah. So I was like, I, and I didn't really, I wasn't interested in being on stage by myself. I just had that instinct. Yeah. You know, in many ways I've known myself.

There are ways that I've known myself very well throughout my life and other ways that I still am figuring myself out in big, big ways. But I did have, I just kind of instinctively knew like, nah, stand-up's not for me. I don't have any interest in being up there by myself. Yeah. I like playing with people. Yeah.

I like kicking it around with funny people. And that was kind of, that was the beginning and ending of it for me. kind of, that was the beginning and ending of it for me. And, and when I started doing improv classes, I was sitting next to people that moved there from, I don't know, you know, Colorado, because they wanted to be on SNL. And that was daunting to me. I was like, I'm here because it, you know, my friend was taking classes and it sounded like fun, you know? So yeah, it's exactly the same thing. It's like, I don't know if I'd been in St. Louis if I, you know. Who knows? Yeah, I don't know what I would have done.

You know, I don't know that I would have, any of this would have, you know, happened. Yeah. You know. It's funny that you're saying the thing about the blank page, because that is a thing that is a signature of some great improvisers. As you know, some people who are as good of improvisers as anyone in the world and with a blank page, it's just that's not how they operate. It's awful.

It's awful for me. Because I just work best on assignment. I work best kind of collaboratively. Although when I'm writing something, I don't really, I have collaborated with people on writing things, but it's not my favorite. Yeah. I mean, on something that's just going to be like my idea, because I get proprietary about my idea.

Yeah. And as I've gotten older, I have, like, I have the ability now to get something accomplished. It can still be a struggle, but like there were years where i'd be like i have a tv pilot idea and then i just would like jot little notes down for three fucking years you know and then um but yeah i just i don't know uh it's it's it's always you know i i i'm a good television writer but it's what that kind of television writer thing where you're sitting in a room and there's somebody typing it down. Yeah. And you're looking at the computer screen and going like, change that joke.

Yeah. I mean, I write comedy every day on the Conan show, but it's usually rewriting comedy. It's coming up. It's fixing things. It's producing the bits. Yeah. So, yeah. no, I, I agree. It is, it's, it is a question of kind of happenstance and luck and, but also too,

luck can, you know, you gotta, you gotta be open to it. You know, you gotta, you gotta be open to the opportunity. You gotta be ready for the opportunity and to take it because these opportunities could come by and you, you know, they're like a breeze that passes by. Yeah. Or, you know, there's something. And that happens all the time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You see that a lot.

Right. Over the years. There's people who are really talented and they're in the mix. Yeah. And then someone offers them something and they just sort of balk. Yeah. It goes to the next person. Yeah.

And that person soars or you could you know when you got to georgetown you could have been a little bit shy about getting into an improv group yeah you know you were ready you knew what you wanted and you took it you know there was direction and there was you know you know it's either you could look at it as either ambition or it's just like artistic curiosity you know so they're often the same thing yeah um that's what my it's funny because that's what i had this a writing mentor at college there's this gentleman named john glavin uh who is a screenwriting teacher who who was incredible he taught jonah nolan and jordandino and like countless like successful TV and film writers. And at the time he hadn't, I was in that era of people who he taught.

Oh, wow. And one time I said to him, you know, I really appreciate like you mentoring me. And he said almost the identical thing that you're saying right now. I've literally never mentioned it. He was like, well, you were open to it. Yeah. It's interesting. I never thought about that.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You got it. You know, opportunity is always there, but if you don't seize it or, you know. Yeah. You know, I mean, because I, like I say, I would sit next to people in improv class and like, you know, the upstairs of a blues bar in Chicago and get to chatting to somebody. I'm like, yeah, I want to be on SNL. And that's why I moved here from you name it.

Sure. Like, wow. And that was never like my thing. But I always was ready to say yes to something. You know, I mean, improv, yes and, you know. Yeah. Something would come up. Do you want to do this thing?

Yeah, I will. I will. You know, like, yes. You know, you got to kind of just, I don't know, you know. But even that Smigel story is the same thing. You were sitting on the set, and he was like, what if Andy just is in the show? And you were sitting on the set and they and he was like what if andy just is in the show and you were like yeah sure yeah it was funny when he when he first came to me to talk to me about it and i think he had it in his mind all along and i'd never really asked him like

hey because conan and i i got hired on that show because because Conan and I had a great lunch and hit it off. Yeah. And later, Conan told me that he just called Robert and said, hire him. Wow. And Robert was like, well, let's have him write a packet of material for us. I don't care. Just hire him. He's fun. That's so funny.

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, and then we also just, you know, we had like rapport. Yeah. We were doing bits all the time and um and i don't know if robert went like ah sidekick like as you know because one of the things we were kind of trying to do is we were building a talk show in reaction to all the other talk shows that had become before especially david letterman sure so i think the notion of you know there's only so many ingredients that go into a talk show and one that hadn't been there for a while was the sidekick

yeah so i think maybe it was just sort of like there was the option the notion of like well let's try this old trope sure um and and then, you know, I fit that in many ways, like just in terms of like, I mean, there's many ways that we, many ways either sort of dumb or sublime that we compliment each other. Like I've said, fatty and skinny. Like that's one of them, you know.

The other one is uh loud and quiet tightly wound and then sort of like you know um we we you know hit we have a we we have a very similar comedic sensibility but we're very different people oh yeah um and when robert first came to me to say, cause he just started when Conan started doing test shows, Robert, the first time Conan was down just in front of the camera, just like lighting and shit. Yeah. He went, uh, I got it.

Robert called my office and said, Hey, go down and sit next to him. Just keep him company. Yeah. Okay. And we just sat there and, you know, bullshitted like we always do. And then the next time he was like, the next time it was like, hey, he's going to do another chess show. Go down and sit with him just to, because there's a lot of downtime too.

You know, they're like resetting cameras, you know. And I wasn't even really, I didn't know. I didn't see it. You know, I didn't see like, oh oh i'm being groomed yeah i just was like yeah okay i understand you sit i take things at face value yeah he's sitting there we don't want him to get bored or antsy so you know like i've i've said many times my um uh when they ship when they tran you know like transport show horses frequently, if they're just transporting the show horse alone, they'll put another animal in with it. A dog, a goat.

And I always kind of felt like I'm the dog or the goat. Like that's just there to sort of like keep them from kicking the back out of the stall. out of the stall you know um but when robert came to me and was like do you want to be the sidekick on the show at that time we had this notion that we were gonna have sort of like uh it was gonna be like a hybrid talk show sketch comedy show and we were and there were a lot of writer performers and we were gonna have like this kind of throwback cast of, you know, cast of kooks that came out and did bits, you know, very frequently. And I thought like, maybe I want to not be on the show

like in that capacity as the sidekick so that I'd be more free to do character parts and stuff. And he talked to me and I said well let me let me think about it and I said and let me you know let me talk to my then fiance about it and uh and he went okay and he left my office and I like instantly was like who the fuck am I kidding he just said do you want to be on tv every night and I'm going like let me think about it you know and like i just i think i thought about it for 30 seconds i just went into his office and i was like wait a

minute fuck yeah of course i want to do that you know sweet um so yeah but i still was kind of like a little bit you know there was like a moment of like i don't know you know one time i was in the control room because i was the control room intern for a period of time. And you and one of the producers were in there. And they were adjusting lighting or something like that. And the producer said to you, he goes, hey, Andy, hang back a little bit in this next segment. And you go, Jeff, I've been working on these crackpot racial theories. I've been thinking of throwing on TV. Do you think this is a good time for it?

And it's just like one of the funniest things I'd ever heard, like in a workplace environment. Yeah, yeah. That was hilarious. You know, I got my crackpot racial theories I want to talk about. And then you were so sweet. I had an improv group at the time called the Regal Beagles, and I brought them, or they came to town that summer and

they all crashed on my floor in in this little studio apartment in New York and uh and after and I brought them to the taping they watched and then you were nice enough to like take a photo of this afterwards it was like a whole thing oh nice it was a big thing yeah nice Can't you tell my loves are growing? Well, now, I want to keep moving on because at this point in your life, too, a big thing happens. You were sick. Didn't you have cancer? Yeah, yeah. So when I was about 19.

What year in college is this? This was like my freshman year in college. Yeah. like 19 what year in college is it this is like my freshman year in college yeah and i was driving home for christmas break and i had a blood in my pee and then uh i was like oh no that's bad yeah like it's just no you just know from the movies sure sure sure this isn't good now where had you been had you been doing crazy sex stuff that you thought like maybe it's from that? No. Yeah. Definitively no. No.

I didn't even have to think about it too much. Right, right. Nope. Masturbating with the wrong lotion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's actually a story I never told anywhere about it is that I literally, when I went, I went home and it was still in the pee and it was this weird thing where it was like you'd pee and then in the toilet you'd see like this weird thing where it was like you'd pee.

And then in the toilet, you'd see like a droplet of blood and just sort of poof. Oh, it would turn pink kind of? Yeah. And you just go, Jesus, this seems bad. And I mentioned to my dad. And he's a doctor. He seemed worried. What kind of doctor is he?

He's a neurologist. Yeah, yeah. And of the brain. And he took me in to see a urologist friend and I literally said, I've never told this in any of the shows where I talk about having had cancer. I said to the doctor,

is it possible that I was masturbating too hard? And he goes, no. It's just such an embarrassing detail. Oh man i fantasize yeah yeah i think i broke my i think i broke my prostate oh my gosh my incredible fantasies oh my gosh and so uh yeah and so they went you know he he he put me under uh to do a cystoscopy where they look into your bladder, which I describe in the show, actually. And then while I'm under, they see the tumor, and they just put me under further. While I'm under, they're like, all right, let's just put him under fuller anesthesia

and just get this out immediately. So they take out the tumor and then. Is it like through your urethra? Yep. Wow. Correct. Yep. And, and talk about luck.

Another thing, it's like they caught it early. It was a fluky thing. A lot of people don't have the blood in the pee. Wow. You know, it's like they find out years later. Yeah. Yeah. You know, symptoms often are lucky.

Yep. You know, and, uh and and so they they caught it early took it out and then so every for at that period of time every three months i would go for the cystoscopy was there any chemo or any radiation or nothing they discussed it it was a big discussion and they decided that based on similar case studies that they'd had with other patients, that they thought that it was this anomalous type of bladder cancer that they had seen in younger people that was probably based on like a paint I'd used. Oh, wow. From an art class. Right, right.

That you'd huffed. That I had huffed. And so, yeah. and wow that's crazy and so yeah and so then it was just like let's let's just monitor this very closely and so to this day i go for these cystoscopies but but no i didn't have to do chemo radiation it was a close call but they but that i'm really glad they didn't do it so does, so it doesn't really take you out of your life for too terribly long, does it? No, the scope is, you know, it's a day and then, and, and no, it doesn't, it honestly, I think that the biggest impact it had on my life was that it made me when I was whatever, 19 years old, see death up close.

Yeah. And, and that's a, that's a weird thing to do when you're young. Yeah, when you have a – any kind of mortality thing that happens, you know, like where you confront mortality, whether it's your own or whether it's like a relative that gets – you know, like I have elderly relatives that I kind of take care of. Yeah. And that's – it definitely has an impact on me.

Seeing people go from being fairly. You know. From being vibrant. Regular old adults. To being. In what seems like just no time at all. Into being. Elderly and frail.

And you know. And like. The inevitable. is right there, you know? So yeah, definitely. So that affected me in this, in this huge way. And I think like when I, I have this, I have this thing where I, I sort of compulsively work on things to the point where I forget to eat. I forget to sleep. I think that's a part of big part of my sleepwalking disorder. And I think that it all roots back in some ways to the cancer, which is like no time, like the present, you could die tomorrow. Yeah.

I could get cancer and terminal cancer and die. And so that, yeah. So that was, I think that was a huge impact on my whole consciousness. Where was that within terms, like, did that make you feel like were you doing improv at that point like where it started so and it would do you think that that was just kind of like well i'm gonna go for this now yeah i think that was like why would i why would i half measure it i'm just gonna do this yeah yeah i think that i was when i was in college it in some ways like it put, 20 years on my life.

Yeah, yeah. Like it was almost like I was experiencing this midlife thing, which is like, I got to do this now. I'm running out of time. Yeah. Except when I was 20. Yeah. And so I was, yeah, I was full. I was working the, I got a job working the door at the Washington DC Improv Comedy Club.

And I was doing stand-up and I was entering the funniest person on campus contest and I was writing screenplays and I was I was doing improv and with my group and and doing sketch comedy and I yeah I was just like all in on this thing yeah and um yeah I um one of the luckiest things i ever got that ever had happened to me was that i got to be in a robert altman movie oh my gosh and robert altman was truly a you know being in film school and stuff truly an artistic hero oh yeah and uh and the the dream situation of meeting a hero and having him be everything you want him to be in more just, it was just the fucking best.

I've heard that. Yeah. He just was just a great, great guy. Yeah. And, and, and, and just a lesson. Like he, he surrounded himself with people he liked. He did what he wanted. He made movies he wanted to make. Didn't even put a lot of pressure on himself.

Just was happy doing it. The process was the thing. And just made life a party. Life was, like, every day was kind of a party. Yeah. And when he died, I went to his funeral. And Garrison Keillor was one of the people that eulogized him and talked about this thing.

And I wish I had a transcript of it because it was just, he talked about, and Alvin never talked about this when I, but he was a fighter pilot in World War II. Oh my gosh, yeah. At like age 19. Unbelievable. In the Pacific. He was a bomber pilot, not a fighter, a bomber pilot. He was a bomber pilot, not a fighter, a bomber pilot. But like they'd take off in 100 degree heat and then get up to like, you know, zero degrees, you know, because of the altitude they had to fly.

That's incredible. And there was something about just the mortality statistics of flying these missions in the Pacific, these bombing runs, where every time you went out, there was about like a 40% chance you'd die. Yeah. And he was 19, 20 years old, flying this plane in charge of like a crew of like six people. Yeah. And did this, and every time you did it, your chances of dying were increased. Yeah. And they took heavy fire and limped back, you know, a couple of times were increased. Yeah. And they took heavy fire and limped back,

you know, a couple of times in a plane that was going to almost crash. And then this guy gets out of that and says like, I'm going to, goes back to Kansas City

and starts making industrial films. Yeah. Incredible. And doesn't give a fuck. And didn't even, I mean, I know a little bit about his story and didn't even succeed right away.

No, no, struggled. He just made industrial films. I think he had his first movie that sailed in his mid-40s or something. No, and he just, but he didn't care. Yeah. People would say to him, you have to conform or you have to do this, and fuck that. Yeah, yeah. You know, you have to conform or you have to do this and fuck that.

Yeah. And it's like, well, yeah, when you cheat death repeatedly at age 20 in a fucking while, you know, artillery is exploding around you and your plane gets a hole blown in it. Yeah. Yeah. I can see how you could sit across from some fucking smug prick and go like, you know what? Fuck you. I'm going to do what I want with this movie. That's related to like, a lot of times people say to me,

like with the show, like how come you're comfortable saying this, like really embarrassing stuff on stage. Like the red light district stories is really embarrassing. Yeah. And like, you know, or,

or feeling like these really dark thoughts. Like I get why dads leave and things like these were like, you're embarrassed to admit it, but it's just thoughts that cross your mind and they're less than flattering. And what I always say is like, we think that we're being secret and we're not. None of us are keeping secrets. Everybody knows that everyone else, I've never phrased it exactly. I don't know.

I've never tried to phrase this exactly right, but it's like, we're all naked. Yeah. We think we're wearing clothes, but we're all naked. Yeah, yeah. And people can imagine what we'd look like naked. Yeah, right, right. And that's how I feel about performance.

It's like, yeah, you just tell the stories. It's like, we're all naked and we could be dead tomorrow i know i know well and on that i mean i've just always thought you know on that analog it is like the funny like just the notion of the way we should look naked is like is like so so specific and such a fucking thin strata of what things is. Because like if we really did walk around naked for just a day, we'd realize like, oh my God, we're all like. We'd get over it. Just lumps and weird hair. Yeah, of course. And we'd get over it so quickly.

Yeah, I'd be like, oh yeah, all these stupid fucking vessels we're walking around in. Like they're not. Yeah. You know. Yeah. They're all perfect and none of them are perfect exactly yeah exactly and we're just animals right i mean we're the museum of natural history we're just the astropithecus yes yes mammals who are too smart for their own good yeah exactly but yeah no that

yeah well and also too i i mean the thing that i love about your work is that and it's part of my, it's part of me just kind of, you know, being a booster of therapy and a booster of like just emotional honesty and is like, yeah, talk about shit. Yeah. Like they're just words. Yeah. They're just words and they're just feelings. And it's, and so much time is wasted and so much harm is done, I think. Yeah, I think that's right. Both on a personal and on a, you know, larger level.

Because people just aren't going to be honest about feelings. And they're, you know, and they're so scared of being sad or being angry or being petty even, you know. In that way, I'm a reaction to my family too, because I grew up Irish Catholic, Massachusetts. Repressed. Repressed. Nobody talks about their feelings. Yeah, yeah.

And all that stuff. That's why the movie, oh my gosh, the movie that crushes me the most is Spotlight. Oh, really? So when I saw Spotlight, I was at home. It's pretty amazing, yeah. Yeah, I actually talk about it. I have a home it's pretty amazing yeah yeah I actually talk about it I have a chapter about it my book where I've never had a reaction like this in a movie

I'm watching it with Jen in our living room and the scene comes on where I think it's Rachel McAdams is playing the reporter and she's talking to this guy in a diner and he tells the story about uh how he was uh molested by a priest and it's just so realistic i mean the i mean the the direction and the performances are just so specific and uh i just start crying for so hard. It was like, you'd have to pull the car over if it was raining that hard. Yeah. And for just 10 minutes, I just cried and cried and cried to the point where Jen would probably think like, Oh, I guess he was molested as child, which I, I wasn't, I could have been, I was a,

I was an altar boy and I live in Massachusetts and there's something about everything in the movie was so familiar. Yeah. And, but it's, but that movie I think is really important in that sense of like, it's about how there's all this complicitness around this abuse. And it's partly taking advantage of the thing that you're talking about, which is we're not going to talk about that. We're not going to talk about how we feel. We're not going to talk about what happened or whatever thing that we're ashamed of. And it's like, yeah, in a lot of ways, my show is like my way of just being like, no, I'm going to just talk about it all. Right, right.

I'm going to talk about everything I'm going through. And some people aren't going to be happy about it. And some people are going to feel a healing from it, and that's all fine. Well, it's also a really nice demonstration of what security really is, of what a sense of security is. Because, you know, take Spotlight. That's – if the Catholic Church is truly if, and that's what they're protecting. If you're truly righteous. You'll want, you'll want that movie.

Yeah. Well, and you'll want, yeah. And you'll want honesty. Yeah. You'll want to purge the badness. Yeah, of course. Whereas like the, the covering up of all these crimes and all these sins. And I see it in people on a personal level. Yeah.

Who like the people in your life that sort of like have to be blameless about things like it's like it's an it's such an insecurity that you can't even admit like a little bit of wrong because it's like a house of cards yeah it'll all tumble yeah and i mean politics it's happening right now where it's like you can't say you know it's a fucking criminal in the white house and everyone's like nah he's not a criminal, you know, he's a fucking criminal in the White House. And everyone's like, nah, he's not a criminal. Right. You know, he's got this whole side of the thing that's protecting himself.

He lies 40 times a day and nobody says the word lie. Right. I mean, it is. It's like that's just fear and insecurity and covering up. And, you know, if you're going to be brave, you're going to, you know, part of that is showing the warts. I know. So kudos to you that's my point hooray you're a hero oh my gosh i'm no hero but i it's it's funny the political

thing is interesting because it's you you and i are both very vocal on twitter and and i think we both about the politics and yeah and and i think we both get some blowback from it you know stick to the jokes and that kind of thing but it's like at a certain point you just go like, I totally get it. Stick to the jokes. But this is a crisis. Yeah. And I'm a citizen. I'm a citizen.

And I get people's ear. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm witnessing something. Yeah. And people like hearing what I have, hearing my analysis of things I witness.

I'm witnessing this. This is fucking bananas. I don't know what else to say. I have to mention this. Well, and also on Twitter, I'm a person. I'm a person that for some reason, you know, people like to hear.

I have followers. I have a good amount of followers. Obviously, people like to hear what I have to say. Yes. So that just is. Yes. So I'm going to talk about the things I want to talk about. So, yeah.

So, like, this is something that concerns me. And people think that like when i go to parties i want to talk about politics right i don't want to talk about politics it's a foregone conclusion the way i feel i don't want to preach to the choir really i mean i will talk about it on twitter because things will occur to me and i feel like i have to fucking lance the boil and sure purge this fucking frustration that i'm feeling. But yeah, no, it's all pretty, you know, I mean, there's not a I don't have there's not a lot of like persuasion that needs to happen for me. I'm you know, I am the way I am. But yeah, no, it's it's. Evan Rachel Wood the actor

was on it with me and she was talking about how she goes to this thing in LA that's like called a rage room I think

and you just and you just break shit so it's like oh yeah I've heard about that so you take a chair computer printer just fucking

beat it with a baseball bat yeah I just thought that was a great great way to vent some of this stuff. Yeah, yeah. For me, me and Jen, lately, and Jen gets so,

my wife gets so upset about the current event stuff, and for obvious reasons, and we've been doing a kickboxing class together. And we meet up, and this woman with the pads, and we just kick and punch and we're terrible. But man, does it get a lot out. Yeah. Yeah.

That's great. There's a funny thing. I went to my first kickboxing class and I was so bad. And she goes, at the end of the lesson, she goes, so if you ever do this again, if I ever do it again. I signed up for a package. Yeah, exactly. From you. I purchased the package from you.

Well, let's keep moving on to like your transition from stand-up into doing the shows, the one-man shows. One-man shows. Yeah, do you call them one-man shows? Yeah, I call them whatever people call them. You know what I mean? Like it's a- Solo plays or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You stand up, solo plays, one-man shows. Yeah, do you call them one man shows? Yeah, I call them whatever people call them. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's a- Solo plays or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You stand up, solo plays, one man shows. You reach a point where you just go, yeah, I don't care. It doesn't matter what you call anything. Right. I had that whole thing. Right. When Hannah Gadsby's show came out, which was brilliant, and people go, it's not stand up comedy.

It's like, yeah, it is. It's whatever you experience. Is she solo on stage telling things that are meant to be largely comedic? Yeah. It doesn't matter what you call it. So how I arrived at it is partly my screenwriting professor and playwriting professor, John Glavine, who I mentioned in college. I called him when I was probably 24, 25,

and I had just mounted a two-actor play called Baby on a Train that I really liked. It was a one act, and I acted in it and basically directed it, although I hired a third person, but, and I mounted it. And it was, I've never really told this story. It was like, no one really showed up. Oh boy. Where was this?

It was like, I rented the producer's club on 44th and like 9th, you know, that area. Yeah, yeah. Fourth floor walk up. I like rented a little, a little space. And, and it was one of those things where things where I had a personal manager at the time, which I think is kind of a hoax of a business entirely, is management in Hollywood. Tim Sarkis, did you hear that?

I liked him. But I think there's just a lot of people who in show business will tell you, you know, essentially like you're the guy, you're the lady who's going to, you know, do all these great things. And then there's no follow through whatsoever. Yeah. And I experienced that a lot early in my career.

Yeah, yeah. And. We're crazy about you. We're crazy about you. Crickets. Yeah. So my manager, I wrote this one act play and my manager goes, if you mount this one-act play.

Which sounds like you're going to fuck it. Yeah, yeah. If you fuck this play, you are destined for the stars. You will have a novella baby. You just have to fuck the play once. So if you mount the play, then I'm going to fuck the play once. So if you mount the play, then I'm going to pack the room with industry. It's so sad.

It's so sad. And nobody showed up. It was like, it must have been 13, 14 people in this room. And I rented the room. And I convinced the other actor to be in it who was in one of my acting classes and and it was just so pride swallowing and and I called my acting or my my writing professor and I told him about it and he goes you know you should just be writing a solo play because you know how to write plays and you're a stand-up and you can merge those things into one and I go okay so what easy advice but like what brilliant it's brilliant yeah yeah

and so I uh I went and I saw you know I got like tkts tickets for like every off broadway and broadway show of solo so solo show so I saw I Am My Own Wife and Bridge and Tunnel. And then I saw this one show called The Tricky Part, directed by Seth Barish, who's my director now, starring Martin Moran. And it was really moving. And I was like, I want to do a show like that. And it wasn't comedic. It was just a very personal story, simply told, simply directed, It was just a very personal story, simply told, simply directed, much like the way Seth directs my shows now. And I just approached the director, Seth, and I go like, I really want to work with you. Here's my script for Sleepwalk With Me.

I've written a solo play, and here's my comedy album. And he goes, you know, I don't think it's there yet. I don't think it's there yet. I don't think it's a play, but I'm willing to, if you hire me, I would do like coaching sessions where we talk out sections of the piece. And so like for a period of time, like I hired this director, Seth to do sessions with me. And then at a certain point he goes, I think that there's a play here. And, and that, that was how the incarnation, we've done four. That's going to be pretty nice.

Yeah. Nice validation, yeah. Yeah, and it was a hard-fought victory because Seth is a very, very particular, he's sort of like an old, almost like an old-fashioned, even though he's not old, like an old-fashioned even though he's not old like an old-fashioned New York theater like person of integrity where it's like he's not in a rush to like throw the thing up he's like no it's got to be a play before we're gonna stage it yeah and so we worked on it for literally years. I mean, I think probably three, four years. Wow. And then finally, when I was like,

I think this was when I was like 30 years old, I got a, there was a pilot in, that I did in CB, at CBS here in LA. You wrote? That I wrote, co-wrote with Andy Secunda, who worked with you at Conan. And is a really great improviser and writer. And then it was sort of hacked to pieces by the network in the sense that they really want. Oh, really? What a shock. You're not going to believe this, Andy. They fucked it up. They mounted it.

Sloppily. Yeah, yeah. They mounted the pilot's pilot. With no concern for the pilot's pleasure. But then, it didn't get picked up, and it was so watered down. And there's nothing worse than that, right? Yeah. Like where someone waters something down, and then they don't accept it.

I know, I know. You're like, well, I just compromised myself completely. Precisely. And then you rejected the thing that I compromised for you. Absolutely. That process to me too, the aspect of that process, I've had that same thing. The process that I like is when they're trying to woo you, we want you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We like everything that's different about you. We like everything that's unique about you we like everything that's unique about you great okay here's a pilot that's me it is you we like it but here like make these little changes till you get to the end of the process and they're like you know what let's just make it like something like the things that work that aren't you and then they say you know what we decided anyway you know we don't like it, you know? And so that was crushing. Yeah. I mean, it was a seminal moment in my life.

I'm so lucky it happened. Yeah. Because it was so cut and dry what had occurred. Yeah. I was like, I went, I made the compromises. They rejected the compromised version that they had ordered. This town is not for me. Yep.

I do not belong here. I'm going to go back to New York, and I'm going to take with me the lesson of this town, which is this town, this business, show business in Hollywood, love it or hate it, they're really good at making things look glossy and produced. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. And so I was like, I think the expression is like polishing a turd or something like that. They're really good at that. Yeah. And so my takeaway was, well, I have this good thing, Sleepwalk, with me, this one-person show. I've been writing for years and working with this director. me this one person show i've been writing for years and working with this director seth i just need to get some money together and some producers to to polish this because it's not a turd it's this thing i'm proud of yeah i need to treat i need to i essentially need to respect my own work

the way that i'm somehow for some reason respecting their fucking network bullshit and treat it like, okay, no, this is. And so I mounted Sleepwalk With Me with the help of Eli Gonda, who is a friend from college. He produced the show. And then Nathan Lane was generous enough to lend his name to it because he was a fan. He had seen me at Caroline's do the Sleepwalk With Me material. And he said, well, I would, you know, I'd put my, I would put my name on it. I'd say like presents. And that, that changed my life. Oh, wow. And then I did, you know.

I wasn't aware of that. Yeah. From there I did four, you know, I've done, this is my fourth. And then this one went to Broadway. And so like my third, like artistically, everything in my thirties. Where do you, I'm sorry. Where do you first put up Sleepwalk With Me? Bleecker Street Theater.

Oh, okay. And I'd workshopped it at UCB Theater in New York and in LA. And it changed my life. Everything from age, whatever, 30 to now, I'm actually really proud of because I have control over it. Yeah, you teach it on your own terms. Yeah, I can collaborate with the of because I have control over it. And I can collaborate with the people. Yeah, you did it on your own terms. Yeah, I can collaborate with the director and lighting designer and set designer who I respect. Yeah.

And so it's – And you direct – have you only – is it the one movie that you made or have you made two? Two. Don't Think Twice and then we did a Sleepwalk With Me movie. Right, right, right. Exactly. But yeah, in the middle of there, you made a goddamn theatrical, you know, like you made a feature film. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Two feature films. Hooray for you. Thanks. That's what I'm saying. Jesus Christ, Mike.

Thanks. Yeah. Good going. And part of that, too, is like a lot of it is, and I don't talk about this this part too much but it's like part of it is like who you're in love with sometimes you know it's like it's like and when I first met Jen she I I said this is like three weeks into being in a dating someone yeah very very casual I go like I'm doing this sleepwalk with me this show show at UCB. And it was really not done. I mean, it was like, imagine like a really early version of a solo show

where you're pouring your guts out at UCB below Gristiti's, you know. And she came and she just goes like, you know, it's all about like my breakup with my ex-girlfriend who I was going to get married to. And all of a sudden it's really like emotional. And she just goes like, what this, what you're doing here is what you should be doing.

Yeah. And I think that happened. That's a huge factor in life is who you're in love with and like what they like about you is affects where you end up. You know, she was like that comedy central stuff that you're doing, it's fine. She's like, but this one-person show, like, there's something here.

And that really affected the journey, too. And that's a wonderful combination of two things that can also, that can often work at cross-purposes, I think. The notion that we should all be these sorts of self-sustaining terrariums of self-worth and motivation and, you know, drive and ambition and that we should not let other people's opinion affect us.

We should stand firm in who we are. And that to me, like, yeah, I get that. But that to me has never worked. Yeah. Because the way that I gauge myself is off of other human beings. And I've always been in terms of like whether like the sense that I'm doing the right thing is often based on comparing myself to other people. Sure. Which you're not supposed to do.

Sure. But it's, and it, and, and it's the same thing too, that you can't be completely self-sustaining. You need to have people tell you this part of you is good. This, what you're, you can't just go, I believe in myself because that's life is a collaborative effort. And you can't just say like, this is me and this is what I want to do. Because then stay home and talk to yourself. And you also can't see what you look like. Yes. And you're not experiencing what it's like to be in the fourth row of your own show.

There's nothing more valuable than the painfully honest opinions of people you trust and love. Yeah, that's painfully apparent in my relationship with Ira Glass. Ira Glass is – Really? I've been working with for about 10 years. Yeah. I've done a bunch of stories for This American Life, and he's the producer of this show.

for This American Life, and he's the producer of this show. And man, the way that he gives notes, and the reason why he gives notes so bluntly, and you'd understand this working on a television show that's every day, is like This American Life is on a deadline. Yeah. They do like 40 new episodes in a year. And so it's like there's no time for – To massage your feelings.

There's just no time. So I wrote a look at what – I wrote this piece for like New York Times last year. And I go, Ira, can you take a look at this? And he goes like, Mike, this doesn't work. It's just like, oh, my God. What do you mean? Yeah, yeah. Like I spent like a week on it.

Yeah. This doesn't work. And, and then, you know, it took me. What does he offer? He offers. Yes. Solutions and ideas. You know, and that's part of what.

Cause that's what you have to do. Oh yeah. And he's, and he's, he's so brilliant. I mean, he's, he, between him and Seth and Jen and a bunch of people who work on these things, like, he's a godsend of a person that I've encountered. He's taught me so much. But holy cow, it's so painful when you work on something and someone just goes, this doesn't work. Yeah, you got to get, you know, I mean, I have a pretty thick skin from it. And it's from working on a late night show.

Yeah. Because there's no time. There's no time. There's no time. There's no time. There's no time. And you also, too, the nature of, especially like when you're working on a strip show like ours, there's no right. There's no absolute truth. No, there's no absolute truth. What's the best thing to do with this comedy sketch, which, A, it's a comedy sketch.

It's not open heart surgery. You just got to have one person that says, this is how it's a comedy sketch it's not right it's not open heart surgery you just gotta have one person that says this is how it's gonna be yep everybody gives suggestions but there's just got to be one voice that says nope this is i want it this way it's like someone's got a point guard yeah someone's got to come in and go i'm gonna point i'm gonna be a point guard you're gonna do this you're gonna do this you're gonna do this all right let's go and i'm gonna say yes and no yep and i that was what i was always used to and you know and and got used to it and and don't really have a lot of ego in terms of like i i give ideas and people don't like them i'm like all right fine i mean you know in my idea people should all in my in my own opinion everyone should always do what i say yes because i'm a

fucking genius yeah of course but um goes without saying yeah we're on your show andy of course precisely um but when i it was when i came out here to do sitcoms and was sitting in writers rooms with all these people that hadn't that didn't have as many you know calluses and scars and they'd pitch something and i go nah we can do better and they'd be like whoa oh interesting go, nah, we can do better. And they'd be like, whoa! Oh, interesting. Like what? Oh, I'm sorry.

I guess I should have said, well, I can see why you would think that was a good idea and it really is a great idea. Oh my God. I really do appreciate it's so funny. It is such a funny thing. But I really think that we, like, come on. I always feel like it's like going to the fucking magic castle

and expecting the other magicians to go ooh oh my gosh it's magic, no it's not magic we're all in the same fucking racket take it easy oh man I love that and I still

I mean you know actually just yesterday on the floor in rehearsal at the Conan show, I try, you know, I try to be, you know, like I try to be nice. But like sometimes there's like a bit that I just am like, no. Yeah. And I and I sometimes I'm like a little too honest or a little too, you know, like there was a bit yesterday that i just i was i was i actually was a little like i like a little mean about it like a little shitty about it like i laughed at the fact that right it was no i laughed i laughed at the like at the idea that it was even being considered right

you know what i mean and i kind of was a dick about it but in like a you know the jokey kind of way yeah and I but I then of course like I just fucking sweat bullets after I was like oh my god I hurt you know this writer's feelings and I was an asshole about it but but then again like hey you know we're all we're all cooks in the kitchen we're all doing the same thing I know it's too salty I know like sorry well I'm not gonna serve this it's too salty and we're all it in the kitchen. Yeah, we're all doing the same thing. No, no, it's too salty. I know. Like, sorry, I'm not going to serve this. It's too salty. And we're all, it's like, it almost like it goes without saying too,

that like, and Ira has to point this out to me sometimes. It's like, if we're even talking about this, I respect what you're doing. You know, and that's true with the writing staff. Absolutely. It's like, we're all working on the same thing. We all have, we all strike out. We all have hits sometimes.

And he respects you enough to have worked with you this fucking long and also to feel like you can take it. Yeah. And also, whenever you say to someone, I feel like my thing is when somebody turns me down, I think, okay, I can make more. Yeah. And that's what I feel with other people. If I say, no, that idea's not great, it doesn't mean I negate you and I don't think that you have good ideas. me down i think okay i i can make more yeah and that's what i feel with other people if i say like no that idea is not great it doesn't mean i negate you and i don't think that you have good ideas it means i trust you can make more yeah just this one you know yeah let's move on from this one so

um with the new show how does it start like how do you start to feel at what point do you start to feel like okay this having a kid thing is going to be a show this is going to be my it was a new one as you say yeah i worked on the title um it was the it was 13 months in uh when we went we actually took j Jen and I took Don't Think Twice, which she worked on also, to Nantucket Film Festival. And when the festival director picked us up, she said, we're doing a storytelling night. The theme is jealousy. And Jen looks at me and she goes, well, you're jealous of our daughter Una. You should talk about that.

And I was just like, okay. Yeah, I I mean you're right yeah yeah you know and that that did sort of encapsulate how I felt at that point I was jealous is there a little dig when she says that yeah it's a but it's a is it a loving day or is it or is there like an is there like a tinge of a real issue there? I'd say both. Yeah. I'd say both. I mean, Jen's very funny. And it's also like it had been tense for those first 13 months.

Like it had been, you know, the show is, I always say this to people. It's like the show isn't about how she's four and a half years old because it's an adorable age and I'm better at being a dad now. And that's not funny. Yeah. Who wants to see some show where a guy goes, so then I take her to musical camp and we have a great time. Right, right, yeah. And then we go out and we get pizza together.

And I've never felt more content. Yeah. Get the fuck off the stage. I'm busy. Right. No, it's about a really hard period of feeling this existential uncertainty of like, what am I doing? I'm bad at this. Jen doesn't want me to be doing this.

Like she thinks I suck. Like, she thinks I suck. I kind of think I suck. I'm trying hard. I don't know what to do. I mean, this is me doing the show without jokes. It's just how I felt for like a year. I mean, I was really like, holy shit. Why do you think you were doing wrong?

I mean, not like what you were doing, but I mean, what do you think it was about you that you weren't performing in a sense in the way that was making everybody happy and making you feel like you're doing the right thing? I think that my existence is so work-based. So I was like filming a movie. I was editing a movie, I was on the road working. And then being a parent for a newborn is like a 24 hour a day job. And so what would happen was I would come back from work and I would try to enter. I mean, it's almost like coming off the street into a middle of a basketball game

that's already in session and being like so is there anywhere to put me in and no no get the fuck out of the way and so I wanted to work hard and I say this in the show I was like the intern of the family does anyone need coffee I'll clean up your crap

someday I hope to be a member of the family and like that's what it was like it was like the intern of the family. I was like, does anyone need coffee? I'll clean up your crap. Someday I hope to be a member of the family. And like, that's what it was like. It was like, I would just do errands. I mean, it really became like I was an assistant to my wife and that's not what I wanted. But honestly, especially first kid, I think that's kind of how it goes. That's how it goes, I think.

I've heard that a lot since then, you know, and that's kind of how it goes. That's how it goes, I think. I've heard that a lot. Yeah. Since then, you know, and that's why I do the show. It's like I have parents come up to me and they'd say, oh, my God, this was exactly like me. This was exactly like her. Or this was nothing like us. Here's our story. And it's like any of those are helpful to hear.

I wish I had seen my show before I became a 10. Because, you know, I have a friend who I won't say his name, but he goes, he had a kid this summer, and he goes, if I hadn't seen your show, I think I would have maybe gotten divorced. Oh, wow. Like, I didn't. He's like, when I saw you being so dark and like, and like going to this place of like, that I've never seen you go with your comedy before. I was like, okay, I'm in for it.

Like I'm bracing myself for this thing. And I was actually able to understand it yeah and so like in that sense i'm more proud of this movie or this special than i am of anything i've made because i feel like actually it is a helpful thing for some people yeah that's nice when that happens yeah every now and then yeah yeah no that's what i you know and either i talk about therapy or being depressed or whatever, I have had people come. And I'm certainly not one to think like, if I share my journey, it will help others. Because I'm a fucking TV clown. You know what I mean?

Yeah. But it does matter. so many really lovely things said to me about how it mattered that i said i suffered from depression and it was a bummer and i got help and it really matters and it's it's nothing you should be ashamed of or afraid to do and that's great you know yeah yeah and i can totally see that about this about your show yeah because it is you know i think it was different for me because like you said you know like when you talked about your dad and and i had asked you like what what it was about your family dynamic that that gave you pause about having kids is that like my parents divorced when i was four so i never and then i was raised like in the house with my grandmother and my mother. So I was kind of like raised by women.

So I came to the conclusion, and I've mentioned it on this show before, that I, like when it came time for me to be a dad, I didn't know really. So I just kind of was a mother. Like, I think I just did like my version of mothering. Yes. And I didn't have, and I mean, like I said, I'm kind of a codependent person. I was kind of designed that way. Yeah. So I didn't have this sort of notion that this new bawling creature is taking away from the glory of me.

Right. You know, because I was, I didn't think that way anyway. And, and I, I would, cause I kinda,

I had like, I was kind of one of the first people in a way, in a wave of people to have a kid. Yeah. Like I, and so there were a lot of people that had kids after me that would and i mean i mean people in america you mean oh yes exactly i have i invented you know what you should do you should raw dog a woman and see what happens. Yeah, yeah. But I had so many conversations, and it's all showbiz men, from just people that I know to like famous showbiz men, in talking about parenthood, just because I was a little bit further along. And the point of the conversation would boil down to kind of like, wow really is about the kid isn't it like and kind

of almost like a couple of them like is it gonna get back to being about me you know like one guy and i mean he's a successful fucking showbiz guy would tell told me as if i'm supposed to go hey man good job like you know like my wife will give me the baby and hold him. It's cute. Oh, yeah, it's good. And then it's kind of after a couple of minutes, like, OK, take him. Yeah. What the fuck?

Yeah. This isn't, you know, you didn't get a bunny that you put back in a hutch. You know, you're making a fucking human being. Yeah. But, you know, but I can see how with some men, especially, especially in showbiz, especially workah workaholics, you know, where it's like, oh, fuck. You know, like my sister-in-law said when she had a kid, she said, it's really obvious who the baby is once you have a kid. Like, you know, it's like, I'm not the baby anymore. That's very funny.

And it's hard. That's a great line. Yeah, yeah. And it's hard. It's obvious who the baby is when you a great line. Yeah, yeah. And it's hard. It's very obvious who the baby is when you have a baby. Yeah, yeah. And I think there are a lot of men that have trouble with that. And I think, and that's your show, is kind of doing a service for babies.

Yeah, yeah, right? Yeah, for babies. For babies, yeah. And also, I think whether or not your parents are together is an indicating factor of what your expectations are, too. So Jen's parents split up when she was one, and my parents stayed together for life. Yeah, yeah. And so when all this was going down, I was secretly thinking, we've talked about this since then. It's in the book that we wrote.

I don't even think that we talked about it before we wrote the book like i thought we're staying together forever no matter what and jen thought and was sad about it but was but but just sort of thought like yeah this will fizzle like oh wow not like not that she didn't love me anymore but that she was just like that's how it happened that's how it happens yeah and so you know and i felt that in that first year like it was unspoken but i could feel it i was like the first year of having a child yeah first yeah i could feel from jen like i was like oh she i think she thinks like we're we're like the walking dead or whatever the the dead man she thinks we're like i'm, I'm a dead man walking.

Did it make you think that having a child was somehow a mistake then because that it somehow broke it? I never thought it was a mistake in the sense that, and I say this line in the show when I was deciding to get like the varicocele repair because my boys don't swim or whatever. Right, right. Is like before I got it, this painful procedure, which they don't swim or whatever right right is like before i got it this painful procedure which they don't tell you is as painful right as it is honest balls for those of

you who haven't seen the show yeah yeah yeah and uh but i thought like jen would be a great mother and that's what she wants she wants to be a mother she'll be a great mother oh my god and she is and uh and i don't i don't want to get in the way of that. So that's what we'll do. And so when we were going through this, and I got this vibe from Jen of, like, that maybe this might end or whatever. Like, I just thought. I never thought it was a mistake. I just thought, oh, okay.

I guess this is how this is going down. Like, I don't know. But she's a great mom and Una's a great kid. But it was just sad to me. It was just so sad. Yeah. Yeah, because I was really content in our marriage. Yeah.

And so that's really what the show is about in a certain sense is that's why it's called The New One, which is like Jen and I were two people who became one. And then when this other new one came along, it was all of a sudden it was those two. Yeah. It was Jen and Una and I was on the outside. And the show is the process of that 13 months breaking into the being three that becomes one. Yeah. And that's where it lands.

But it's really only like a glimpse of that at the end. Yeah. But yeah. My ex-wife and I, after we had our first kid, we both found ourselves referring to our life before having a kid as when we were single. Oh my gosh. Like we were a couple, but we were like single to us meant without children,

you know? So, yeah, it is weird. Cause you are kind of, it is like, it's a different. It was an entirely different existence.

Oh yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's, it's a different. Well, it's an entirely different existence. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's really, well, I always say it is the bottom line. You're making people. Yeah. Like, why wouldn't that be the most complicated fucking thing on earth? Why wouldn't, you know. Of course.

Like, way more complicated than making a hybrid car or whatever, you know. You're making a human fucking being and if you're people yeah and if you're if you're committed to that process in a real way yeah it's going to be really tough yeah and it's going to be really wonderful and it's going to be the only thing that really matters that's right so that's right uh well let's get on to the next the of the two questions there's the where are you going? I mean, do you have, I mean, you obviously have a book coming out. I mean, is this kind of, are you just kind of on a similar sort of just laying track for this railroad? Or is there some thing, is there some big thing that you're not doing that you wish you were doing? I think that, you know, right now I have, I'm writing a show for the stage that it's different from anything I've ever done. That's pretty spectacular, I would say. Oh, is it autobiographical?

It is. Yeah. But it's a variation on a type of show that I'm doing now. But it's, I would say, just bigger. And it's sort of a big high concept. And so I'm working on that, and then I'm working on another movie because I love directing movies.

Yeah, yeah. It's really fun. I've only directed commercials, but boy, is it fun. Yeah. I love the teamwork of it. It's the same thing we're talking about with improv. And it's like, or like a writer's room. Like there's something about the camaraderie of it.

And the problem solving. I love the problem solving. It's fascinating. And like, it's funny because you, we were talking earlier about, oh yeah, you were saying like Altman, like really like treated every day like a party. Oh, yeah, you were saying like Altman like really treated every day like a party. And the people, I don't know if you were saying like the people on the set were really nice or the crew was nice. He had like 12 relatives working for him. Like most of his kids work for him. Yeah.

And like that's when I did Don't Think Twice. Yeah. And like, that's when, when I did Don't Think Twice, Sleepwalk With Me was the first movie I directed. And it was really, really hard because there were some mostly great people. And then a couple people were like, kind of assholes and like, and mean. Yeah. like, that's the only part I didn't like. Yep. It's the only part. And so when I got my, I hired my crew, we all got in a room for Don't Think Twice. And I said, okay, this is really important. The reason you're here and you're hired is that I, you're not an asshole. I have vetted you. I have called people, you know, you are. And so if you start becoming an asshole, we're going to be surprised.

Yeah. And you probably won't work on the movie anymore. Yeah, yeah. Because this isn't going to be like that. Yeah. And there were no assholes. And it was great. You learned a lesson very quick that I have talked to so many people that it took longer to learn. like director friends and things or, you know, producer friends who just said, like,

you hire somebody because of some sort of something on their resume or because they're- Or they have heat. Yeah. And it's like, that matters so much less than are they going to be a pleasant person to spend 16 hours a day with, you know? And holy cow. I mean, the people who worked on Don't Think Twice is like Keegan-Michael Key and Gillian Jacobs and Chris Gethard and Kate Micucci and Tammy Sager. And then the crew, Joe Anderson, all these people.

Oh, my God, these are the best people. This is such a great time. And so, yeah, I wanted like and so I'm writing a movie and I'm going to direct that. And I think I'm going to do some variation on just shows and movies and directing. And I'd say, like, increasingly less in front of the camera and more just, you know, directing and creating. I think that at a certain point you have to come to grips with, like, we only have so much time on the earth. And what do I have to contribute? And I think it is creating a thing.

Yeah. And if I have to be the And I think it is creating a thing. Yeah. And if I have to be the person who is the thing, that's fine. If that's the best thing for it. Right. But I don't, I'm not like, I'm not in a rush. Like the movie I'm conceiving, it doesn't have me in it. Yeah. Is that, do you feel like you just had enough of that?

Yeah. I think that part of it's that. yeah i i think that part of it's that i think part of it is you just go like well i i see actors who are better than me yeah yeah yeah and i go like you know i and i think when i was younger i would go how come that's not me and now i go like oh that guy's good oh yeah yeah yeah because i have the same i definitely have the same feeling as I'm – I mean, you know, I work on the Conan show and it's great. But at some point it's going to stop and I'm going to have to figure out what the next step for me is. And I think about that a lot. And definitely – I mean, I like performing and I like acting.

And I certainly now because of just my schedule and this job, I miss acting. I miss. And when I get a chance to do it. Oh, it's really fun. And it's also it's a challenge. And, you know, it's, you know, doing the Conan show is now at this point and it should be falling off a log. It's just, you know, I don't it's not a great sweat. I get it. should be falling off a log it's just you know i don't it's not a great sweat i get it i get a job you know like i get i get a side gig on a on a show where i got an act and i it's a little bit like especially if there's time in between it like i did a i did a i was on santa clarita diet on a number of those episodes and when i started on that i felt really fucking rusty and really insecure and after and just as i did it got it back felt secure felt like i was doing a good job was happy to take compliments that i felt were genuine about that and that is that's like exciting that's a

challenge you know that's like a workout i had the same thing with i was on billions yeah last season yeah two seasons ago and i have uh i have like a love scene i never had like a full love scene where we're stripping and all that kind of stuff with uh asia kate dylan um and uh and it was challenging because it was like, this is way out of my comfort zone. I don't view myself as a sexual being and all that kind of stuff. No, when I was on Andy Richard Controls the Universe, they wanted to have me date all kind of,

so I was like, oh, dude, can't this guy just be sort of neuter? Does he really have to have sex with people? This is incredibly embarrassing to me. But then ultimately, like, my takeaway was like, oh, well, this will teach me more about what it's like to be an actor and how the insecurity you go through. And so when I'm a director and a love scene is called for, like, I'll be able to be more sensitive to the actors. Right. It's that scare yourself.

Yeah. Scare yourself thing. Yeah, yeah. that scare yourself yeah yeah um well that's you know you kind of are covering the the lesson you've learned you know stuff about this i mean i imagine well you i i read something where you said that you very much value asking advice and it's a practice that you're in yeah and i imagine people do the same thing for you. Yeah. And I wonder, you know, and I mean, as an answer to the third question of these questions, what is that advice?

Like, whether it's showbiz, whether it's fatherhood, whether it's marriage, I mean. What's my advice for people? Yeah. Well, the one, you know, I think gratitude, reminding yourself to be grateful is I think crucial. Yeah. The same way that like. It's a tough one. It's hard. I try it. I mean, I force myself to do it, but I forget for weeks at a time, you know? Yeah. I mean, force myself to do it, but I forget for weeks at a time, you know? Yeah. I mean, I had it yesterday. I was, you know, I had this cough and I was feeling, I was doing a matinee and a night show and I was doing,

I had a press obligation in between. I was just hitting a wall and Jen said, you know, Matt Berninger from my favorite band, The National came to the show last night and, night. And she goes, Matt's coming. She goes, just think about Matt and how he does 100 dates on the road after an album comes out and how hard that must be to bring it to his fans. And you're that thing. Shitty hotel rooms, yeah, buses.

And you're that to that audience. And I was like, yeah, you're absolutely right. And so I basically, like last night, I was like, I'm doing this for Matt. Because Matt does this for me when I'm an audience member. And so I think gratitude, my biggest piece of advice is gratitude. And I would say, to your point earlier, sort of building on what you were saying, like openness to the universe. Yeah. Saying yes to things in the universe.

Yeah. Well, so people do that. Say yes. Be open to the universe. And be grateful. God damn it. We could die tomorrow. Yeah.

We could die tomorrow. Which, you know, sometimes I feel like that wouldn't be so bad. It wouldn't be so bad. Oh, just the rest. Yeah, yeah, just the relief. Oh, the rest. Oh, I don't have to breathe anymore. Oh, like what's better than a nap?

Yeah, exactly. And then, oh, that big, big nap. Yeah, yeah. Oh, nice. Well, I wanted to leave it on a cheery note. I think that's nice. Yeah, yeah, that's the way to do it. Well, Mike, I love you.

You're really, you're an amazing person. You really are. You are frankly heroic in terms of like what you've done. No, I mean it. Oh, thanks. I mean it. For what you've done with your career and with your life, I think it's really, you know, and especially as fucked up as you are physically.

Jesus Christ. You're a mess. I know. I've got a lot of doctors. You've got a lot of issues. I know. it's really, you know, and especially as fucked up as you are physically, Jesus Christ, you're a mess. I know. I got a lot of, I got a lot of doctors. Got a lot of issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Getting shit shoved up your dick, you know, on a regular basis.

But a lot of that's recreational. Well, of course. But thank you so much for doing this. I know you're busy and your times, I mean, you've made it very plain that your time is valuable. All your obligations. I am very grateful for you having me here. Well, I've admired you for so many years and to continue to.

And, and I feel lucky to be a part of this show. That's a lovely thing to say. And I definitely throw it right back at you. And I want to thank you people out there for listening to the three questions. Be sure to check out Mike's show, the new one on Netflix. It ought to be. I don't know when this is, but it ought to be out there.

And it is really, really great. It's funny and smart and pulls at your heartstrings, which has always been one of the grossest phrases. Hearts, ugh, imagine what the fuck's heartstrings. Flossing your heart. Yeah, like sinewy, blood-soaked goo. But anyway, he's going to pull at them. So we will be talking to you next time on The Three Questions. Bye-bye. Thanks.

I've got a big, big love for you. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Earwolf production. It's produced by me, Kevin Bartelt, executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, associate produced by Jen Samples and Galit Sahayek, and engineered by Will Becton. And if you haven't already, make sure to rate and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.