The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Mike O'Brien

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Comedian, actor, and writer Mike O'Brien (SNL, A.P. Bio) joins Andy Richter to discuss creating A.P. Bio, his experience on Saturday Night Live, advice from Lorne Michaels, the limits of Midwestern humility, and much more.

Hey everyone, welcome back to The Three Questions. I'm Andy Richter. Today I'm talking to the super talented comedian, actor, and writer Mike O'Brien. You know him from his work on SNL where he was a writer and a featured player. He also created the NBC comedy series AP Bio and he's written for hilarious shows like I Think You Should Leave with Tim Robinson. If you live in LA, these days you can find him doing stand-up, often at the Elysian Theatre. And don't forget, I've got a live SiriusXM radio show where you're the guest. It's called the Andy Richter Call-In Show, and it airs every Wednesday at 1pm Pacific,

4pm Eastern on Conan O'Brien Radio, Channel 104. Each week there's a new topic, and you can send in your story by visiting the link in today's show notes. Find out the next week's show topic by visiting Team Coco podcasts on Instagram. Well, Mike O'Brien, I've invited you here to answer for yourself. I knew this was a trap. How are you doing? Cheaters. Yeah.

I'm good. How are you doing? Thanks for having me on. You live here now, right? Yeah. Have you been here for a while? Yeah, seven or eight years now. Okay.

We'll never know because the pandemic. So right years now. Okay. We'll never know, cause the pandemic. So. Right. Right, exactly. But yeah, I think I've been here longer than New York. And before that I was in Chicago and I'm about the same as that. Yeah, yeah.

So it's real weird to be like, I'm an LA person. Right, right. So, but I am. Are you feeling, I mean, do you feel it yet? Cause I know it took me a while. Yeah. I think so. Yeah.

I've got like all my favorite places and, um, uh, I'm still scared of the freeways. So that doesn't feel very LA. But I take surface streets. I take surface streets. I, yeah, no, I go like an hour and a half for what could be 22 minutes. So that's not super LA. I've seen the movies, they drive on the freeways usually. Yeah, you know what? They're actually, when you start using them,

you find that they're very convenient and time savers. Yeah, they seem faster. I've seen no red lights or whatever, but yeah. Yeah. I'm scared. And because you've been out here, you've written on a few things, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm scared. And you, cause you've been out here, you've written on a few things, right? Yeah. Yeah. I had my own show, AP Bio, for four seasons.

Which was one of those shows that like every, you know, like everybody I know that knows comedy loved, but it didn't, I mean, it didn't set the world on fire. No, no. And I had a Friday morning call with NBC to kind of say as much every week. Yeah. They still do like, the first two seasons were on NBC proper and they still do like a morning after call that is like for who watched it live, which is also the, the few people we had watching it also weren't really watching it live. And so they'd be like, well, so you got like a 0.01, which, you know, we know that people are going to watch it later.

And then absent you, young Sheldon got another 9.9. Why are we doing this call? Yeah, Jesus Christ. Yeah, no, I mean, I say that as someone who had a few of those, you know, shows that, you know. And I mean, it's, I'd rather, well, I don't know. I was about to say, I'd rather be on a show that's respected than a big commercial juggernaut that's not so great.

But I don't know, it might be kind of nice. It might be kind of nice to have a big pile of money from being on something shitty. I know, I feel like we both have friends who have both. Cause I do have some really weird funny writer friends who have written for years for a show that none of us respect. Yes.

I'll leave them all unnamed, but they just, so they have their huge house and they just have like a kind of data. It's just the problem is that's why we got into this is they go to work the way an accountant goes to work. They're thinking about Friday at five o'clock and they're like, I do it. I say some joke every hour. They're saying it like they're sending emails or just punching a clock at a factory.

But yeah, the upside is they go home to their cool swimming pool. Yeah, yeah. And they're children that won't have to worry. They're children that get- They're fed children. Yeah, just become like the people in Wall-E just recline and drink smoothies. Yeah, no, it is.

It's true. And I always found too, whenever I would encounter, because you have a body of work that's very easy to respect and is very funny and just high quality for people that know comedy. I have always felt whenever I was in a situation where somebody was like, well, try and make this one a big commercial success. And I was I'd be like, I don't, you know, like if you want, you know, you said it. So just as an example, like young Sheldon, like, I don't know. I don't know how to do that.

You know, I mean, I just kind of know how to do what I do. And yeah. And and any time any would be like, we need to, you know, there'd be this thing about like on one of my shows, there was there was a directive that came down like, we need more, you know, there'd be this thing about like, on one of my shows, there was a directive that came down, like, we need more young women to watch the show. Yeah. And I was like, okay, I don't know what to tell you.

And then I think the guy that, you know, was kind of in charge sort of, it's like, he just had the characters tell him, like, twice an episode have people tell each other how much they value each other's friendship. Like, I don't know if that's going to do it. I'm not an expert, but you know, yeah, we had one not long ago that was, uh, they were looking for a guys, guys show and we were hopefully we were delivering whatever.

Again, it's hard to work backwards from that. We just were delivering like a fun group of people saying the funniest things we could think to type. Yeah, yeah. And we got the note at one point that they'd kind of passed the latest draft around the office and women were really liking it and they were worried about that.

Yeah. And we were like, They should be hating this. Yeah, so we have to write it in a way that only guys think it's funny. I can't even think of jokes in that logic. And you gotta alienate the women. Right, right, they should be mad,

but they were smiling. That's the sign of success. Yeah. When you're getting it right, it's when women are mad. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah, then they come back with your note and say, now we want the women happier.

Yeah, it's, writing backwards from anything, like I also will try to do, like, they're gonna reboot Gumby or something. Yeah. And what, do you have a take on that, Mike, or something? I'll watch a bunch of Gumby and Is that one is that a real one? That's a real one that I think is probably is still gonna happen I'm right I ducked out of it after a while, but I had fun. Yeah What I do love gum Gumby's fucking weird. Yeah, and it is it the one does it have religious stuff or is that Davian Goliath?

Oh, I didn't see anything with Gumby that was... That was religious. Because there's one Davey and Goliath is the same, I don't remember the name of the studio, but it's the same Claymation studio. And it's all like religious. Like sneaking it in or just... Not really. Like there was, like Davey is a boy and Goliath is a dog, looks kind of like a, you've never seen Davey?

I haven't seen it, no. I mean, I'm older than you two, so it was like, it was current to me, I think, when I was a little kid, but Goliath is like a blood houndy kind of dog, but talks like this, like, okay, Davey. And like, there's just this episode that I saw in adulthood that was Davey gets mad about something and says, I wish I was the only person on earth. And he wakes up and goes like, my dream came true.

I'm the only person here. I know, I'll go to the baseball field. Because the baseball field is like, this isn't much fun. And he's like, I know, oh, well, choir practice should be happening now. I'll go to church. Wait, church is empty. And it's just like, well, dummy, you don't,

fuck shit up. Seal a car, set fire to the grocery store. Don't go into, I'm gonna do a bunch of group intensive activities. Yeah, he needed to watch Forte's Last Man on Earth. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I wanted to speak to our age difference because I was thinking about this on the way over.

It's very, I think we are not very different in age. You're 48? I'm 48. I'm 10 years older than you, I'm 58, yeah. But you and your generation of like Conan, Yeah. Like influenced me heavily in high school, which is funny.

You guys must've been really young. Yeah, ish. Yeah, I think like, well, the show started in 93, which would have made me 27. So yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was like a sophomore or junior and I just, it made, it was the perfect age because, um, Carson was on a lot in my home growing up.

And then I have a very distinct memory of the final Carson. I was a freshman in high school at the end of that. And, um, just being like, wow, I'm supposed to really feel something here, but I don't feel anything. And then like a year later for all my friends to be like, you know, there's a, same thing, it's like Carson, but they have like a masturbating bear. It was so, so soon after and our brains all exploded and we were like, oh, comedy can be anything. It should really make you laugh. It doesn't have to be like this weird, stiff guy

that my grandparents liked. Yeah. So that was, to get that at like 16 or 17 was the perfect that and like Mr. Show at 18 or something. I just, those are like the best. But then now I've gotten to meet all the people that wrote for those shows or was in those shows. And you're like,

oh, this isn't like some far away distant older person. This is just a one. We're pretty close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fascinating to me. Yeah. Well, I think, well, first, you know, well, that brings up a bunch of stuff,

which is like, A, thank you so much. And that's like one of the best thing because, you know, I can, I'm very good at feeling bad about myself for, you know, and looking back and seeing nothing, but like unfulfilled promises and, you know, and like, you know, like the teacher's like, he has so much potential, but, you know, if he'd only apply himself and I, I still have that when I look back on my life, but then I hear people like you and I think, no, I was part of something that really mattered to people

that are serious about being funny and serious about comedy, and it matters to them in the same way that these others, David Letterman and SCTV, mattered to me. And that's really kind of great, you know? And that's something that no amount of fucking morons at networks and studios can take away. Yeah, and it's a real thing to feel that excitement

when you're, in this case, a teenager. Sometimes there's another version you have maybe in middle school that might be an SNL-ish thing or something. But that excitement as a teenager, you find out about punk music and Conan and then Mr. Show or whatever example is all at once, and you're like, oh wow, everything can be fucking whatever. It's a huge thing, I think.

I think it's good. And you're a Midwestern guy, you're from Michigan and it's kind of the same thing. It's like, wow, because it is, I mean, I guess it can be the same anywhere, but there is a particular something to being in the Midwest that's like, don't get too big for your britches and don't expect too much out of life. And then like you say, oh, wait a minute,

here's people that are like, fuck everything. Let's just, you know, let's have a masturbating bear, a robot on the toilet or whatever, you know? And so, yeah, that's, I mean, that's one of the cool things that being silly can do. And also too, I think, you know, if you devote yourself, like you said, if you devote yourself, like you said, writing backwards to something, you know, like I know what I'm going to do something important.

And then you try and write like something that's funny, that's important. And I've been a part of different projects where that was kind of like, we're going to tackle an issue. And I'd be like, well, then write a pamphlet or something. Don't write a comedy sketch. And if you're writing a sketch and a cursio, we could make this about whatever, sexual politics or racism or prejudice, like sneak it in. Because I think that's way more powerful anyway. Yeah, or even just let people say it about the thing and find out later like Jumping around here, but I did a video where I played Jay-Z and yes and now and

I would say that there's no people even while we were shooting was like, what are we saying? Is this about because the Oscars are so white and And I was like, oh, I don't know. I'd never write or think about. Who cares? Yeah. Jay-Z is cool and I would be a bad guy to play him in a biopic. That's as far as I thought about it. And then later on people like, will sometimes think it's saying this or that.

And you're like, sure. But that's as close as I come to getting those statements out as a full accident. Right, right. I said. Yeah. Can't you tell my love's a- Well, Conan always said too, you know, because we, there was, well, I mean, just to be completely blunt, like years and years of Emmy nominations, and then like congratulating everyone from The Daily Show

at the dinner afterwards. Right. And feeling like, well, you know, they seemed to really like this political, topical, you know, pointed comedy. And The Daily Show was great at it, but it was like never anything that we were even interested in. And I remember talking to Conan about it once, and he said, I think being silly and absurd actually in the long run

is more important. Like, well, because you can look at an old Daily Show and they're referring to something that happened that day, and you might not even know what the fuck they're talking. I mean, I look at old like political joke tweets that I made, you know, and it'll be like, you know, those fucking guys with the dolphins. And I'm like, what am I? I don't even know what I'm talking about.

You know? Yeah. Yeah. There is a good, uh, Lauren quote. Um, uh, he would, he would have like great pontificating speeches in the summer. Everyone talked about summer Lorne. And it was great. He's just, those are all the stories.

He can really kick back. Yeah. He's more fatherly and he's like, how are you Mike? And he's actually asking and everything and he doesn't have that like tense neck. But he was kind of going off about how comedy people all wanna be in some drama and get an Oscar. And that's considered like an upgrade. And even some of the goofiest guys will do, it was cause some movie that was like a Sandler, Schneider movie came out and halfway through

someone gets cancer, I don't remember. But right away you're like, I'm with Lorne on this, I'm like, man, those guys are really good at what they do and they don't need to have a scene where they cry about cancer. And, but he, his point was kind of hit home. He's like, he sees comedy and drama as tied as how hard they are, how respectable, kind of like the Conan thing you're saying, and that like

case in point have the best actors in the world try to be funny. Now they'll often get laughs because it's so-and-so with a funny hat on, but have them just like, uh, try to win over a live audience. It's very hard, and a lot of the funniest people on earth aren't as good as them at crying, and our facial structures aren't as nice. Right, right, exactly. And so, but to say that one is,

it's cool that I've done comedy for this many years and had huge comedy movies, but I haven't ever done the real, the big leagues or something. It's very insulting to comedy. And sometimes I agree with both those guys that we need to see it as equally hard. It's maybe harder in some ways. I don't know. I can't act that well.

So that seems really hard to me. But I know comedy is hard. Yeah. Oh, no, I mean, yeah, I don't have... I know people, like I... But they're all, like, handsome and good-looking. Like, they're pretty, like, they're... I know comedy people who I know in their hearts, like, they're like,

God damn it, I want to also, you know... I want to be an Oscar contention, you know? And it's like, you should be a little uglier because then you would never ever have to worry about that. But yeah, they do worry about it, you know? Yeah, that's interesting. It's only a thought with the good looking comedians that they're like, I should be. It's a possibility. Yeah, yeah. with the good looking comedians that they're like,

I should be... It's a possibility. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, because yeah. Or, I mean, I've known also two comedians that, and it's like a couple of dudes that took that right turn into like fucking bro, whatever, incel bro blogging. Yeah. And there's a couple of them that I like,

I can tell it cause they're good looking and they're like, fuck, I'm handsome. What the fuck? What did you, why am I not, why am I having to do this? Yeah. You know, like why am I having to rant about migrants? Yeah. I ought to be making money saying dumb shit for Chuck Lorie.

I had a melanoma skin cancer on my face and the doctor was like, we're gonna have to, because it's by your eye, we're gonna have to make a humongous cut. Wow, yeah. Yeah, I see it. How long ago was that? Now it was like six years ago. Yeah, yeah. And they had to do it twice and everything. And it was at the time, very traumatic. And at one point I remember saying to the surgeon, I'm like, you know, I'm an actor. And I'm like, and this is going to change things.

And then like later on, I was like, what roles was I picturing I was going to be acting in where they're like, we need Mike's perfect face to play this guy. And then, what, he's got a scar now? Fuck, get red-pinned, I guess. Well, now he's gotta be a villain. Now he's gotta be evil. It's like every role I would wanna play anyway,

it's all like creepy guy in the bushes. It's like, the scar's gonna help. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also liked that you said that about Johnny Carson, cause that was always, I also like that you said that about Johnny Carson because that was always, I felt like my secret in doing talk shows is like, I don't care about the history. I never, because then once you get into it, especially with like, and I mean, and, and I don't even mean to disparage it, but like there's, cause there's people that worked at NBC where it's really

fucking important to them. And it's really, you know, like that there's, cause there's people that worked at NBC where it's really fucking important to them. And it's really, you know, like that there was the Tonight Show and then Letterman, you know, and that that they were, they were fans of that kind of TV. And that's why they got into, you know, then working in that kind of television. But to me, I was always like, you know,

there was just Letterman, it was just Letterman. And it was, and he could have been, you know, he could have done always like, you know, there was just Letterman. It was just Letterman and it was, and he could have been, you know, he could have done some others, you know, he could have had a radio show and he would have mattered to me in that way. I didn't like, just because it was like, oh, the late night talk show and the grand history, I was always like, nah, you know, which I think was,

you know, like why I was like, yeah, sure, I'll be a sidekick, I don't get, and never had any qualms from people would be like, well, what do you want to be called? Like sidekick, whatever, you know, what, you know, couch technician. What the fuck? Yeah. I mean, Letterman, I have memories of, for some reason, the early Conan grabbed me

harder, but I remember thinking like that Letterman was always talking to the like deli guy around the corner or something was like, oh, this is weirder than Carson and all that. But I have a friend who now watches a ton of Carson and I wonder what that headspace is to him because he's, he wouldn't mind if I said it's Tim Robinson. So he's obviously loves weird comedy, although most of us don't go home and watch tons of comedy, especially after, if you're working.

I rarely, I hardly ever turn on comedy. I haven't in so long and I feel bad because our friends- I need murder, you know? Yeah, yeah, something. I do sports, murder. Yeah. Or neurodivergent people dating.

Yeah, I was doing that last night. Yeah. I mean, I was too at our house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's... I think love on the spectrum will be seen as inappropriate someday because I, as a person who thinks of myself as neurodivergent is like, these are, you picked some.

What it makes is that if I ever say that sentence to someone, especially like on a date or in a job interview type thing, they're all like, whoa, you are? What sentence? Oh, that you think that I'm somewhere on the spectrum. They're like, no, you aren't, are you? You are? And I'm like, well, I'm not in the top six

that you're gonna put on TV. Yeah, yeah. I just have a 2% this and that here and there. And so that show, I think will be, it's very enjoyable, but might be looked at like we look at things in the 20s who they were like. Possibly, yeah, I know. But I mean, but there's just, I don't know.

It's just, I just- It's more good than bad for sure. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I mean, and it also is just like, where, especially in reality TV, where so much of it is like engineered conflict and just dummies, you know, let's stick these dummies on more dummies and have fireworks. Like, this is just, this is, it just seems so lovely. And then you

meet their families and how patient and even like the, even like the dad that's sort of like seems to be impatient and doesn't quite get it. He's still just, he's still just trying to love his kid in the way he knows how. Yeah, that white haired guy, he's always wants to be on camera too. Yeah. But yeah, I think so.

I guess my only argument is would lead to slightly worse TV, which is if they opened it up to 20 other ones and we're like, and this is also a type of neurodivergence. And a bunch of those seem really normal. You're like, well then that guy's date went fine. Right, right, right. And they're like, but that he was nervous before

and he took him along, he picked out his pants two days before it. Yeah. That's not as good a TV as this other guy. You're right. Yeah, no, there's definitely like a neurodivergent sweet spot that they found because like there's the, like the one woman went on a date with a guy

who was so affected by background noise that he, you know, he had the noise canceling headphones on. And it's, you know, and like my wife and I were just like, that poor guy, like he's so trapped into very specific situations and anywhere out. So it's like, yeah, that guy's not gonna get on the show because he can't, he can't stand in a botanical garden for half an hour waiting for someone to show up.

You know? Right, right. Anyhow, well, we really skewered that show. Yeah, yeah, there's your review. That's what people tuned in for. But yeah, that's watching, Tim watching Carson is interesting to me. Yeah, what does he say about it?

He just loves it. I think it's a little, my closest thing is Colombo. I'm like, I've gone all the way through like twice and there's something, I like the seventies of it. Yes, me too. Everyone's smoking. Soothing. Yeah.

And I think he likes seeing how, I'm guessing a different comedy was back then. And I think he likes it, but like Rickles will come by. Everyone's kind of drunk too. Yeah. And, but we know it's 2 PM. Yes, of course, of course. And, but Rickles will just drop by real drunk

and just destroy. And currently you would laugh at some of it. It is funny, but the way it's killing is also funny. Yes, yes. I think it's that, I don't think he has like nostalgia for when we would have been He would have been ten or something right right, but it's interesting. It's more of a cultural artifact kind of I think so Yeah, I it must be I because I am kind of bored by it

if he's watching and like you guys see this one because Rickles comes out and You know tucks the rat pack all drunk. I can enjoy it, but I would never put it on my own. Go in Colombo, you know. Whenever I have tried to watch Old Carson, I'm just struck by, and I mean, and that's because also to my attention span has just been ravaged over the years.

But I'm just amazed how fucking long, like I think it was 90, I think that show was 90 minutes every night. And it's just how long, like we'll be back, you know, to not say anything of interest to Gina Lola Brigida for another seven minutes. Stick around, you know? Yeah, that's where, I really, I went to a movie yesterday or days ago, and I really felt my attention span there in a theater. I realized at home

I I pause a lot and I'll you know make food sometimes go to bed watch the rest of the morning it's it's sitting for an hour 45 is is long and That's not great that I was really liking the movie. No, no. It was, yeah. The embarrassing thing that I have lately is having to put my phone across the room while I'm watching and watching something

that's compelling and that I'm into and that is kind of like a tense sort of thriller thing. And I don't think it's like, oh, I can't take the tension. I'm gonna look at my phone. It's just, it's like a fucking wooby pacifier. Baby wants his baba. It really is. I do it when I'm writing and it makes me mad.

My solution lately, cause I'll write for three minutes and then need a two minute break or something. It's really back and forth. And so that's often like scrolling. And my one lately is the bald eagle nest in Big Bear. For people that don't know, there's a live cam in Big Bear of a bald eagle nest with two eaglets. Two surviving eaglets and Shadow and Jackie are the parents.

And I'm allowed to do that if I'm writing. So, because I'm like, that's what I'm wanting. I'm wanting my brain to go away from the little hole it was in and rest for a minute. And this scrolling doesn't make you rest, but looking and being like, oh, Jackie's back. And watch the worst TV show on earth. And this scrolling doesn't make you rest, but looking and being like, oh, Jackie's back. And you get to watch the worst TV show on earth, but it's kind of fascinating. But only for a minute,

it also makes you want to get back to work because you're like, all right, that's enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, yeah, it's like, okay, yep, there they are. There's those birds again. Can't you tell my love's a girl? Because Tim's from Michigan and you know, and I do feel like when I look at so many of so many of the like people in comedy that are that are my friends, so many of them are Midwestern even ones that I didn't even know

when I was living in the Midwest. And do you think that there's something to that? You know, do you think? Yeah, it's funny. I think there's a trade-off though, that I personally do think, yeah, that the reason there's a higher percentage from there and maybe Canada.

Yeah, at which Canada, At which Canada is the Midwest. Right, it's just a big Midwest. Just a sea of apologizing, people standing in line patiently. Right, right, yeah, yeah. And that both makes you have a certain point of view and maybe a certain take on the world, but also makes you think you don't deserve and should never, could never do any sort of,

in our case, comedy. So that's a funny thing is that like, when I say early Conan influenced me, it wasn't at the time influenced me. Like I wasn't thinking, oh wow, they're really writing a different type of show. So when I write a show, I should try to, I was just like, that's funny.

I wanna say some of those jokes to my friends at school tomorrow. Cause you never think, and then I see people who are like, you know, the kid of some famous person, they grew up in LA, they're always like, well, I might be in movies. And I think that's a sort of a healthy or at least more successful model than having in the back of your head.

That could never ever be for me when. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I feel like, I mean, well, I mean, and I'm not even one to be like, oh, nip-o-baby, because I do think, yeah, to a certain extent, there are, there's more access for rich kids of people that have already made it in show business.

But I mean, surprise, surprise, there's more access to the children of rich people, to lots and lots of things. Yeah, you can fucking make yourself nuts about that. there's more access to the children of rich people, to lots and lots of things. You can fucking make yourself nuts about that. It's like the whole notion of just all throughout show business, the notion of internships. It's like, who can work for free?

Oh, kids that have parents that have money that can let them work at a Conan show, work at MTV, work at an agency for free. Yeah. You know, it's all people that can afford to keep their kids that way. But. It's also funny with, sorry, with Nepo babies though. I obviously, yeah, when you come out of Michigan or something, you have a

chip on your shoulder about that. But there's a, now all my friends who have done well in showbiz have kids and I've watched them grow up and they're the sweet kid that I like a lot. Now they're getting to be 18, some of them and stuff. And you're like, oh, well, these ones aren't Neppo babies. I know they were raised in a big house in LA and were doing bits with movie stars when they were 10.

But these ones are nice ones. And you're like, oh, that's- That their junior high had six different elective language courses, foreign language courses. Yeah, no, it is. See, I don't get too worked up about it, but I do think like, I feel like, like people like you and me, like we earned this.

We went through, had to break through our own, like, nah, who the fuck am I to think I can do that? And our families, who the fuck do you think you are that you can do that, you know? We broke through all that and then to do it. And I mean, I had my breakdown of that had to be very sort of ground level, sort of having a moment out here cause we did a live show that started in Chicago

that went to New York and came out here. And I was with all these people from Chicago that I had come up with. Yeah. And we were here kind of as a, you know, like a little vagabond group. But I remember one day driving out to the beach with a bunch of people in the back of my Toyota pickup and looking at all the houses in the hills and going, that can't all be like super famous people that I know their name.

Like there's an industry here, there's lots of places where you can make a living doing this, you know? And that was like so much more like, well, all right, you know, then the notion of like, I'm gonna be a star. Right, right. Like, ew. Yeah. So yeah, and then know, just, A, like, ew. Yeah. So yeah, and then also too, with the Nepo babies,

there's, it only lasts so long. You do have to put up. Yeah. And if you don't, then you have to shut up and you're sort of like, yeah, you'll go away and you'll be rich or whatever. Right. You know, and you'll make a scene on,

in the first class of a transatlantic flight with your little dog shitting all over the floor or something. But which is, that's a specific thing you can. Yeah, yeah. That sounds like that happened to you. No, no. It's a great, Michael Douglas's tragic brother. There's a, just Google, Eric Douglas, I think is his name. There's also, he's also in a fantastic episode of highway to heaven, which is my.

That's Eric. If you ever, if you get a chance, watch some highway to heaven, because that shit is lazy and weird, really fucking weird. Like a lot of like really weird, like I never got the love from a man, my father, that I needed. So there's all this, like, oh, just... I mean, I can't even go into it. But the one that Eric Douglas is in, which is called Playing for Keeps.

I cannot recommend it high enough. There's your plug for the fans out there. Get out there. Get out there, folks. In fact, turn this off and go watch it right now. I'm gonna watch it tonight, for real. Yeah, there is a thing, you'll know exactly the context of this,

that was like a moment that stuck out in my mind for my Chicago time. A guy at a crowded annoyance party was handing out headshots of himself and we all just were like, fuck that guy forever. That's against the whole thing. And then over the last 10 or 15 years, me and a few friends have had long talks about this where we're like, we go so hard that way that we're, you're having to do therapy to be like, I deserve to sometimes be able to write for a show. And you're like, man, we really pounded this in and now sometimes I have a

friend who will just stop me all the time and be like, well don't, don't say it that way with all the disclaimers, just say, I may direct a movie someday, or just say, I will direct it. That's what I just do. I will direct a comedy movie someday. And I'm like, I sound like the guy with the headshots and that's hateable, but there's something to be said for some self-confidence and everything.

I know, I know. And then that might cross some line into being a piece of shit. But I feel like we're good on the humbleness. You're fucking talking my language here. And it's the thing too that, like, I'm sure that you've encountered, if you express these kind of worries and doubts and disappointments and insecurities, people will say to you, what the fuck are you talking about? You've worked and worked and you're known and you know, and because I will get that and I have to go like, well, yeah, I guess

I have done a lot, you know, and it is like, there is part of me that is like, well, yeah, I guess I have done a lot. You know? And it is like, there is part of me that is like, yeah, it's crazy that you talk that way, Andy. What are you fucking doing? But then there also too is like the part of me that really does feel like I could have done more. I could have owned things just kind of, I don't mean like things. I could have owned aspects of myself. And you know, for me too, it's always just things, I could have owned aspects of myself.

And for me too, it's always just like, I could have written more. Like what the, and it's still there. It's still there. Like any day now, I'm gonna fucking start firing on all cylinders, you know? But you can't really share that with people. And I don't, you know,

and it does take a long time to get rid of that because I don't know how to not be allergic to self-congratulations. You know, like, and I will listen to, like, sometimes, like I love Howard Stern, I listen all the time, and there's times when he's on talking to famous people and they're all being famous together and talking, and I'll just be like, Jesus, take it easy, you know? And it's like, no, they're just talking about together and talking. And I'll just be like, Jesus, take it easy. And it's like, no, they're just talking about their lives and their work, you fucking weirdo. Taking a compliment is something I've worked on.

I feel like the Midwest reaction to a compliment is to a polite move is to say the thing is kind of bad. They're like, hey, I like that thing you did. And you're like, thank you so much. It was kind of bad. They're like, hey, I like that thing you did. And you're like, thank you so much. It was kind of bad. Sorry. Yeah, it could have been better. Yeah.

Yeah. And just be like, thanks. It was fun. I guess it's the closest I can come to. It was supposed to be something a lot better. So you kind of suck for thinking it was good. Right. You're dumb ass liked it, but.

Yeah. What was the thing that made you feel like that you could do this for a living? Was there a moment or did you just kind of just keep, cause I saw too, like you had, when you went to University of Michigan and you started a protest paper against the Daily Paper, like what was wrong with the Daily Paper?

They just didn't hire me. How fucking dare they? I know, it was crazy. I hated them for it. No, that, I think it was probably not making it like financially, but there was a moment at I.O., the improv theater in Chicago, we both. Improv Olympic originally, then Improv Olympia, and now just IO. Oh, I didn't know the middle one.

Yeah, yeah. There was Improv Olympia was there. Because we actually, for people that don't know, and it's so hilarious, it was Improv Olympic for years. And the fucking Olympics sued and forced because there was such a risk of someone tarnishing. I know, of someone showing up to this basement Wrigleyville theater and thinking they were going to see a javelin get thrown. They're like, whatever, it's just kind of rolling around on the stage.

But there was a thing that ran for a while called slug fest, which was one person shows. I think they were a half hour or so, and there, there'd be two every Thursday night at like 10 PM or something. And, um, did they repeat or was it just different people? Oh, that's cool. It was always different people. And yeah, it was just like a weird thing where you're like, oh, wow.

This Thursday is that, uh, former teacher of mine or something. I wonder what if he had, you know, Noah or whoever doing a half hour of whatever they whipped together that week. It was really fun and there was a lot of cool ones and mine went well and it was like that moment I have a clear memory of like maybe I can stick around the Chicago scene. Yeah. Um, and then as far as I think, probably, no, I was going to say hiring for SNL then gives you the, but that wasn't, I was like, I could be, uh, back to teaching improv any day that it wasn't. And the place much discussed kind of keeps you in that mentality. So, uh, not even six years into into that did I feel like any job security.

But do you think that that sort of feeling of like fear, the fear-based work environment is intentional or that it just kind of happens that way because it's such a big glum thing machine? I think it's a little intentional. Yeah. And I think it's, I don't think, I think it's complicated to be Lorne. Like it's easy to villainize it in that way and be like, well, because at AP bio I was a nice boss and he's a boss that makes you feel insecure. But if I was at running SNL and having to deal with the

hirings and firings constantly that you have to, to try to keep the show at the level that you want it to be at, you might just get to where you're like, I don't have the time and energy to be warm and fuzzy to my staff of 200 every day. Precisely. So I don't, I don't villainize it at all, but it is that feeling. And I did get what I know, I've heard on this and other podcasts that sometimes he did give me like a, you're good as long as you want here. So I did have that job security, but for some reason in my head, I was like,

but I don't know if I can ever get another, like have my own show or do. So I think I'm still waiting on that one, but I had the I.O. I had a hot night one time at I.O. Well, it's taken you far, you know. Now you, you know, sort of, you know, within the people in the know famously are you and Jason Sudeikis, are the only writer who rose from writer to performer, correct? Tim Robinson didn't do that, was he? He was performer then writer. Right. Well, I think there's a lot who did it pretty quickly.

Leslie Jones wrote for like a month and was being so. And was being so funny in pitch or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And ever a newer standup and everything that she pretty quickly was shifted over. And I don't remember, there's some others like that, like Chevy or something, you know, where sometimes he'll just be like, get him as a writer. And then he deciding and deciding in a month later, he's like, but yeah, mine was a full four seasons of writing before cast. And Jason, I can't remember, but a good one or two,

he famously danced really funny in the background of a Super Bowl shuffle. Right, right. Tom Brady maybe. But yeah, and it is really funny dancing. Yeah, yeah. But it was- Well, that the one that Keenan did,

What's Up with That, is that what, what was that one, was that what it was called? What's Up with That? Yeah, What Up with That. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because his dancing in that was just like, Jesus Christ. It was that kind of thing, yeah, that where it was a very skilled, silly looking way of moving your body.

Yeah. And, but yeah, that forever planted, I think in everyone's mind, when writers would get thrown in the background of a thing like, if I hit the gas hard. I'm gonna swing for the fences, yeah. Get a load of me. Yeah.

You know, yeah. Because it might've been the next week. I think Lauren might've seen that sketch, heard the laughs happening from a writer dancing in the deep background. Yeah. And said, put them in the cast. Yeah, yeah. Now you went, well first of all, were you always kind of while you were writing there like,

gosh coach, put me in. Yeah, I would have, I would, I at least twice in my, those first years, had a meeting at the end of the year with him and was like, I know, you know, I was performing more in Chicago and I'm missing it and would love to do it on the show. And he would say some version of like, you know, I have eight of the funniest white guys in the world right now, which was true around those years.

But I think then I fully gave up and moved on and that's when he was like, now you're in the cast is what always works. Right, right, of course. And moved on in a good way, like my happiest writing years were probably three and four. And then it was like being moved into the cast kind of ruined that for me.

Because then after that year, they said, we want you still as a writer. You're not in the cast anymore, but you can be in your own videos. So this weird kind of hybrid for my sixth season that was fun when I had a video, which was maybe like five of them that year, and the other 16 weeks or whatever were less fun than writing had been before I had, you know.

Are you in possession of enough of an ego? I mean, we talked about, because you certainly can be the humble Midwesterner, but also have a monster of an ego that you hide in a box, because that's a common thing, you know. Yeah, where mine is, is with comedy, I have gotten confident about comedy. And so some, that's the feeling you get is,

I got taken out of the cast, but that guy isn't, I'm funnier than that guy. I know, I know, I know. And so those are pretty poisonous thoughts to be thinking all day. Yeah, yeah. And especially when you feel mad at that person, because if you played out what would have happened ideally is they call John Smith and say, we want you in the cast this year. And he would say, but wait, what's going on with Mike O'Brien?

And they'd say, we're moving him out of the cast. And he'd say, I'm walking, you put him back in. I'm not taking his spot. Right, right. And of course they say, yes, I'd like to join the cast. And then you're like, fuck this guy. But, um, but yeah, so that, that's where the ego can come out a little bit. Is that very unhealthy comparing, which is dumb.

And also always happens as you get to know someone, once you know them, I always feel like it goes away, anyone who I've watched from home, I probably as an IO guy, wasn't loving the extreme mania around Andy Samberg and his raps happening. And I had flown out to audition the same year. And so there was even a, he got it over me. And then I worked with him and have a deep love for him.

The minute you... He's such a sweetheart. He would go to bat for my sketches and everything. And I had this kind of shame in my memory of being like... Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that I had ever been like, what, they're rapping about their dicks? And I truly, I love them so much.

Oh, I have about like 30 people like that where I said that fucking guy fuck that guy and they meet him and like I've had it I've had I have to like fucking temper my my bitching about people and I've gotten better as I've gotten older but like It's always there like it like I remember meeting Dave Foley of kids in the hall the first time I met him and it was like, meet him. And then I can't remember, I can't remember it was an SNL party, but they all were there. And I think they came, I think they all were in town and because it was all under the Lorne umbrella, like they came to our show or something. And I met him and then we hung out,

like we, you know, it was like, oh hi. And I him all. And then he, you know, we go out afterwards. Within two minutes, he's bad mouthing everybody on that show to me. And I was just fucking delighted because I was like, brother. You know? Like, oh, it's, I'm from one of my bitchy tribe, you know? But I have had the experience of like sitting

on the talk show set with somebody famous and they bring up somebody else and I think it's an opening for me to shit talk that other famous person that's not there. And twice in my life I've had a famous person say, oh, that guy really loves you and has never said anything but nice things about you. Oh, I'm the worst. I'm the worst fucking asshole in the planet. The minute they say something nice about your comedy,

like I've had ones with friends where we just are trashing some peer for years and then if we meet them at some party and they have like a specific thing they like. You know they really mean it. Yeah, yeah. They mean it and everything and you're like, then if nothing else you have to go to like, I don't like everything he does, but he's a good guy. Yeah, yeah.

Smart, smart. Incredible taste. Fucking golden instincts that guy. Not everything he's done is perfect. Yeah, yeah. Suddenly the tone. Yeah. I know I have my answer to this question, but you know, because you, you, you know, you had to run an SNL, you know, we're a performer then went down to Ryder and it

was, it is like, it's hard to not look at it as, you know, when I say went down, I don't mean to be insulting, but it's just like, right. You know, it definitely wasn't something they weren't liking something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Promotion. Yeah.

Well, that's like, uh, yeah. When our show went from an hour to a half hour and the party line was kind of like, Oh no, it's good. I was always sort of like, well, you know, when, like, nobody's like, you know what you guys are doing so great. I want you to take up less real estate on the schedule. All right. Right.

I was always like, that doesn't, okay, whatever. You know, I'm betting me we've been on for a million years and fucking just TBS. Yeah. You know, um, but, you know, and then you had AP bio well-respected. Everybody loved it. Had funniest fucking people on earth on it and The disappointment like have you figured out ways to deal with it? Like have you you know, is it something that you've had to really address like specifically?

Yeah, I think a little bit yeah, and I do a lot of the like meditation books and and things like that, that help trying to stay in the present, Deepak and Eckhart Tolle and all those. I listen to them over and over on my dog walks. My dogs, my little dirty dogs.

But those help and time can help and everything. But yeah, it flares up. I have like a weekly Zoom or every other week with my parents and it flares up around them. Cause my mom is in a constant state of kind of just wanting me to be so thankful to everyone who I worked for or whatever. And so she'll be like, if I had made some offhand comment about Lauren or someone, she'd say, oh, but he, he helped you so much. And I'm like, it's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But

I don't have to, I don't have to be nice right now. And, and so that's an interesting way that I still feel. I'm like, oh, there's still a little anger or embarrassment or some of that around the move out of the cast mostly. And yeah, I was trying to think of, there's other examples, but it's often I feel like with my mom where she can spot that I'm not all rosy about something. And then I am like, well, I get to be, and I'm a little child. But yeah. Well, you know, if I may, I, because I'm familiar with that type of person, that's them.

That's them protecting themselves. Like she doesn't want to think about her son being disappointed. So she wants her son to be happy all the time. So that's like, you know, and I mean, I don't, I don't know your mom, so, cause I'm, so I'm talking about like the people I know. It's like, no, that's you being selfish. Like that's like you not letting me be me.

You insisting on me being what you want me to be. So, hey, how about, you know, how about cutting me some slack and letting me be me? You know? Yeah. Yeah. Put it on the phone. And let's get it. Yeah. I mean. Put it on the phone. Let's get it. Yeah. I mean, and the, the, to be fair,

the other half of the Zoom is me trying to change them and her. So I'll try to make them more woke. It's the family legacy. I try to get her to get a knee operation. I'm talking her into things. Yeah. So it's a two way and talking around a thing. So it's a two-way street.

I get it. That's a good, that's an excellent answer. What were you said you had an answer for yourself for that? Well, I mean, a big part of it is time, time and therapy. Yeah. And really, like I remember when Andy Richter Controls the Universe was canceled. It sort of coincided with there was a huge different production post 9-11, like just the way that it fucked with the economy just generally. And so I had about like 10 or 11 months where there was just no work happening. And I would drive my side, just had one kid at the time, would drive him to preschool. And then I would go to Roosevelt Golf Course almost every day and just like,

play golf, work on golf, like let these old men give me lessons, you know, just, you know, random Korean men helping me to like get better. And I did get like way better at golf. And, but like I say, there was 10 minutes and I didn't write a fucking word. I didn't, I didn't do it like, and I just had to, because I had thought of myself as being like, look, I'm familiar with disappointment. I've, you know, I've taken all the bruises. I've seen my name insulting, like, as I've said many times, like when the Cohen show came out,

I found out there's so many different ways to call someone fat, you know? So like I've seen- Like in reviews and stuff? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, official? Absolutely, yeah, just like, it was like, they could not mention me without saying, you know, so like I've seen reviews and stuff. Yo, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, just like they, it was like,

they could not mention me without saying, you know, calling me cherubic, you know, which it all like ends up into like, you know, like unfuckable dickless, you know, charity case. Cherubic's not making it. No, it sure isn't. Yeah, that's, that doesn't make any woman go like, damn. Fucking lemme add that. A little baby. Yeah. Yeah, that doesn't make any woman go like, damn, I fucking love you. You had that share. A little baby.

Yeah, oh, an angel baby. Yummy. So I thought I was like, I'm fine. And then I realized like, no, no, I was like incredibly wounded. And I couldn't, I was licking my wounds. I was healing. I was because too, it's like, you know, and in that time,

and I didn't want to admit it to myself, but it's like, and then, you know, yeah, there's all these different reasons that like things don't work out. And you very early on learn like, oh, the show, like the reasons for why a show succeeds or doesn't succeed in terms of just like the way the network handles it, like its quality, the actual sort of quality of the show is maybe seventh on the list of sort of like important reasons why it should,

you know, exist or not exist. So you know, like, oh, well, I can't, you know, attach my personal value to what they think of this show. But at a certain point, I did have to be like, no, I convinced a studio, a network to put me out in front of a show, you know, with help. But, I mean, but it was me saying like, yeah, I can do this. And America went, eh. Yeah.

You know, it's like, I could not get around the fact like, no, America did reject me. Yeah. Like, because if it had been, you know, there's plenty of other shows that they put them on and they just fucking catch fire for some reason, you know, and there again, who knows, you know? So I did have to admit, like, how hurt I was

and how fucking weird it was and what a big disappointment it was. And then I also had to learn that there's a very, like, it's like a, what do they call it? A beneficial bacteria, like compartmentalizing. If you start trying to be more mentally healthy, you think like no compartmentalizing is bad. Like being different over here in this part of my life

than I am in this part of my life, that doesn't work. I need to be sort of like a unified person in all situations. And then after a while, life throws you things and you're like, oh no, I gotta put that fucking shit in the box and just shove it away and that and it's like is that healthy? Well, it's more healthy than Walking around covered in garbage, you know, which is what you end up feeling like right just sort of like are constantly Going over these disappointments like rosary beads, you know? Yeah, yeah, and I have a lifelong debate in my mind as to whether some anger fuels comedy,

or at least makes you stay up later working on a thing. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna beat all these fuckers. Yeah. And I don't know if, you know, a needlepoint, I'm to beat all these fuckers. Yeah. And, um, I don't know if, uh, you know, uh, uh, needle point, I'm going to beat all these fuckers is a great, I'll show them. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. I wondered what your thoughts were on whether, um, anger, which we know as adults who, um, have had any therapy or Eckhart Tolle is not good overall. But do you think it's sometimes in your life led you to come up with comedy ideas or work harder on them? Gosh.

I can't think of anything like specific where anger has meant. I can't think of anything specific where anger is meant. I certainly anger in terms of performing and improvising. There have been times where when I really go off, it's really good. It's loud and scary and can be funny in that because I don't go off very often. So there's just been times and it's something that I have learned. and can be funny in that because I don't go off very often. So there's just like been times and it's like something that I have learned. I go, this is a good opportunity for me to,

basically let the fucking monster out of the closet for just a second, cause it can be funny. And it's in a safe context of a comedy thing. I think, yeah, that's also, there's certain people that are funny, angry, and not scary angry. Like Will Ferrell yelling is very funny. Yes, exactly.

And I think, yeah, maybe you and I, a lot of times when I'm actually really irritated, I wouldn't say raging, but really fully mad about something. The person who's standing next to me will laugh a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think there's something about also how small and dumb the thing is that they can see that right away and I can laugh about in a day or two.

Yeah, yeah. But the thing you're getting, I've been, I have a book idea that I don't know if I can pull off, but it's unsent angry emails from friends and everything, because I do those sometimes if I'm just can't sleep, I'm so frustrated, I'll write an email to the person, just giving them the right act or whatever and decide in the morning if I'm going to even send any version of that. Yeah, yeah. It's just therapeutic.

And then it at least allows you to sleep, but then a month later, it's very funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Furthermore, you did not mention the time slot difference and this all caps here and there. Right, right. And you're like, God, I cared so much about this stupid thing.

Yeah, yeah, no. You know what? Honestly, too, I have been through that, but it's been years. You know, like I have been, especially, you know, like I got divorced and that was a huge turning point in my life of just getting better. You know, like, and it's, you know, nothing against my ex-wife or anything, but like it was holding together a relationship that needed to end.

Yeah. And so that letting go of, hey, when it was awful, it was the worst thing that ever happened to me, but it's letting go of that, also let go a lot of, a lot of just general free-floating anger that would settle in different places. So like I'm not really that angry anymore. And I work really hard too now

because there's just so little happening work-wise that it's just, again, compartmentalization. If I want to think about how little work there is and then impending economic doom for the country and possibly the planet, I could just curl up in a ball, but I have to shove it all away. I have to remember to avoid being bitter, you know, because like,

yep, I enjoyed a lot of success. And it, you know, it's I'm not enjoying it at that level right now. But I'm not going to be because I've seen and I've met people, yeah, you know, sort of a class or two above me in terms of the comedy college, who I made, you know, after their big thing happened, and they're fucking bitter, and it sucks. It's not fun, and it can't be happy to live in that, you know. Right. I mean, I was even tempted when you were saying that America said no to you, to be like, well, aren't there so many factors about what slot you're put where, when you were saying that America said no to you, to be like, well, aren't there so many factors about what slot you're put where and all that,

but the minute you're obsessing over that, then you are stuck in this kind of bitterness or adjacent. And yeah, one time I put this question pretty much to a, I don't know what he was, my girlfriend's healer, ex-girlfriend's healing guy. Sure. And he was sort of a masseuse. I don't know. Now, as I say this out loud, I think they were probably sleeping together.

But anyway, he had an interesting answer where he was like, well, it seems to me the ideas you come up with through anger or I think I was saying through depression, like if you fixed my anxiety and depression, would my comedy suffer? And he's like, well, I think the ideas you come up with through those lenses would probably look like other ideas that have done before, but if you're a happy, calm version of your true self,

it's gonna be impossible for anyone else to ever have done it. And it's an easier said than done sort of thing, but it rang a little true. And then he also didn't know he'd hit on a comedians phobia thing of like, well, I don't wanna be copying. Has that been done?

Paranoia, that was kind of done by Simpsons type thing. He accidentally touched on that too. And I was like, wow, maybe I have to become Zen. Or else I'm just doing like Mr. Show light. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, but I mean, you can't worry about that too much. People have been doing shit forever, and it's easy to find similarities for something you do. I mean, unless you have to really, you know, you got to be careful, like if it's definitely, you know, specifically a ripoff.

But to his point, like everyone's done the awkward first date scene, but if it's really your persona, and you're not, I'm not kind of doing a Norm MacDonald vibe, I'm really truly myself, then it will look a little different even if they're like, well, it's an awkward first date. I've seen that before. They're like, I haven't seen quite this before. I also will say, I think I do my best work when I'm happy. Yeah. And even I, and it's like, if there's like sad elements

to something that we're working on, like I can access those, but I also like just have more energy. I get more of a perspective on things. And, and, yeah, I never, I, you know, like very early on might've worried about like, well, what if I don't get, you know, what if I'm undepressed? And then it's like, you know what?

I had a certain point, I was like, I don't care. Yeah. If my comedy is damaged, I'll get a real estate license or something. Yeah. You know what? At a certain point I was like, I don't care. Yeah. If my comedy is damaged, I'll get a real estate license or something. Yeah. You know? Yeah, the most fun and therefore productive afternoons in a writer's room are pure joy. Yeah. As you know.

Yeah, yeah. It's never a dark, sad, everyone's smoking and is like, what if we did this? I'm so depressed. Right, right. It's just everyone laughing so hard and being like, that'd be great. Yeah.'m so depressed. Right, right, right. It's just everyone laughing so hard and being like, that'd be great. Yeah, that's fun. It's, so yeah.

Well, you're doing, you're doing a standup comedy show called Mike and the Jesus Christ. So that's right. Yeah. Sounds nice. The Jesus Christ are my backup band. Nice. But yeah, I'm working on a new hour

at the Elysian in LA, if any of your listeners are around. I'm gonna do it about once a month, maybe eight or so times, and I was gonna say till all the streamers have passed. But I have to be practicing and then it will be on a streamer, Andy. Yeah, yeah. No, of course it will. You're willing it into being. Yeah, but either way, if people come out, it's a great theater.

Yeah. Have you done stuff there? Yeah, I have. It's a nice space. I have, yeah. Yeah, I've done a few things there. It is, it's a nice, it's intimate. Yeah.

But it's big enough that it doesn't feel too intimate. Yeah. And are you touring at all? Are you just doing that and kind of working here in town? I can't tour cause I'll miss my dog too much. So, and I don't aspire to become like a standup standup. This is a standup slash sort of one man showy, Chicago-y vibe type thing.

Yeah. That I just like working on. And so yeah, I just am doing it here and then trying to write and develop movies and TV shows here. Yeah, yeah. And how is that now? Because I fucking quit. You got out at just the right time.

No, I mean, I just- It is very quiet. After the Conan show ended, I was like, I got to get an animated show. And oh, I have a game show idea and all that. Here's another show. And I mean, I quickly realized like, I have an idea for a show in which I am the star

was like, oh, oh great, good for you. You know, so all right, that's not going to work out. was like, oh, oh great, good for you. You know, so all right, that's not gonna work out. I mean, I could be part of an ensemble, but I could tell like, there's no interest in that. So, but I was trying and trying and trying. And then I just was like, this is just making me feel bad.

Yeah. Then there's just, and I realized this is not my fault. And everybody else seems to kind of be in the same boat where there's just like not that much happening. No. And I've had a lot of trouble getting my own new thing sold. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm lucky enough because of AP Bio, I'll get thrown on with a, to like consult or whatever with a young younger showrunner or something and the network feels better about having me on that and and that's really fun and all that but yeah the the real passion projects are tough to sell for me right now and and so yeah that's why it's nice to have the live shows because that's like pure, exactly what I want it to be type of voice. Yeah.

What do you think's the most important thing you've learned through your years of doing this? And by doing this, I mean being white. It's, I think just, you know, being a gentleman, have your cane. Always have a kerchief for a lady. Keep that top hat on Dusty. I was thinking about this as I listened to a bunch of these and I was like, what would mine be?

And then I kind of, I was like, oh, I know what it would be. And then Brian Stack said it pretty close as well. But maybe a bunch of people have said this. But that's, well, at a certain point, it's like, yeah, again, it's like, oh, I know what it would be. And then Brian Stack said it pretty close as well. But maybe a bunch of people have said this. But that's, well, at a certain point, it's like, again, it's like, you know, there's so many of them that it's like, fake it till you make it. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, that's a pretty good one.

Right. And so, yeah, I'll say my own wording of what probably a bunch of people have said, but Brian put well, which is it seems like whenever I'm really just digging in and loving a work because of the work itself, writing a play, making a painting, whatever it is, and not thinking about the end goal, that is both more rewarding minute to minute, obviously, but actually ironically has more chance of success. And kind of like what we were saying before,

if you aim at something and reverse engineer it, I feel like that's harder and less creative and cool. Like if you say, Tim's got a great sketch show, they're all 15 minutes long, each sketch is about a minute and a half. I'm gonna write that because that's doing well and I think it's cool. As opposed to just like, right now I'm really into, you know, here's a real one, making and painting birdhouses. Yeah? Yeah, just for my yard.

And so that, I've backed my way into a tricky one there, because I don't know that that could ever be anything. Be anything other than what it is. But a better example would be just like you get a weird thing and you're like, I don't know what this is, but I think it's a short play. Yeah. I'm going to put it up. It's not, I wish I could think of an amazing movie,

like the one I just watched, but if you aim backwards from that, you're like, what I'd be more excited about tonight is to get out that play again. And there's probably no money or fame in that. But then those are what become the, what's the one where he raps about the president? Hamilton's.

Oh, Hamilton raps about the president. That's what, that was one of the quotes at the bottom of the poster. He raps about the president. Finally, yeah, I think those become those special things and they start out as just like, I just couldn't stop working on it. I did not see an avenue where it could be anything that is sellable or thinking about

it in that way is like we were talking about at the beginning. Yeah. Well, that, I mean, that's very, that's the idea is that, you know, in the now, you know, kind of thing, that's, it's, it is, it's very good. It's hard to achieve. And that's like, I remember I had a friend who was like a real Buddhist. And I asked him about like what, about the trying hard

at not trying kind of thing. And, and he said, well, yeah, you're, it's the, like succeeding at it is not the idea. It's always working at it. And you may never fully succeeding at it is not the idea. It's always working at it. And you may never fully succeed at it, but it's a good goal. Yeah. And feeling like I'm working towards enjoying whatever it is that I'm doing wherever I am

with whomever I'm with. I'm working at having that be enough. It's a good goal. Yeah. And it's a good sort of just like list of things to do for the day. Yeah. Yeah. And like checking in with your gut as you sit down, I usually write in the evenings

and as you're sitting down to write, being like, am I forcing this at all? And making sure you're opening the doc that is like, this one would be really fun to work on for a half hour. Yeah. Then you're in the right place. Because the other ones usually have something in the back of your mind that you're like, I'm supposed to do this, this will make money,

this will make it so I work with that guy who said he wanted to work with me. Those you can feel that you're dragging your feet a little bit on him. Yeah. You're watching the Eagles more than writing as they say. Yeah, yeah. And the one that you're like, this is dumb and this is, I'm the only person that probably thinks this is funny, but I'm going to write a book of haikus or something. Yeah, yeah.

There's no market for it. Right, right. Whatever it is. Yeah. Well, Mike, thank you so much for coming in and spending all this time with us. It was great getting to know you and talking to you. Yeah, thank you. I'm such a fan of your work and the podcast. And so this was a pleasure.

Oh, good. Thanks. So anyway, if you're in LA, check the Elysian. Just go wait there until Mike shows up. And I'll be back next week with more of this, The Three Questions. So thanks for tuning in. Bye-bye. Support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Nick Leow, Adam Sacks, and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista, with assistance from Maddie Ogden. Research by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts. And do you have a favorite question you always

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