The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Neko Case

Episode Date: June 16, 2020

Singer-songwriter Neko Case talks with Andy Richter about defending ‘pussy metal’ in Saturday School, coming out from behind the drums, and the compulsion to improve upon her craft. Plus, Neko breaks down her unique approach to songwriting.

How are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm good. What's the dirt from? It's good to see you too. I was just planting things. I was killing things by accident. I planted a tree yesterday and I was trying to resuscitate it. Oh, what happened?

It didn't like the sun. It's a bare root thing. Oh, I see. It's dumb. I'm dumb. You're in Vermont, right? Yes. Yes.

And how long have you been there? Since 2007. Seven? I think, yeah. So just over 13 years my math is good all right that's tight it's easy when it's easy when the year ends in zero it's you know it always is helpful for at least i know um what made you choose vermont well i lived here for a little bit when I was a little kid

and I was madly in love with it and always wanted to come back. And then I came here for a visit once because I had gone to Maine with my best friend and we had a rental car. So we were like, Vermont's only like eight minutes away because it's upper New England. It's really tiny. So we came out and I found all of my old neighbors and the place I had lived before.

And no one had died and no one had aged. And I thought, that's probably where I need to live. It has a magical fountain of youth. It really does. And even the elderly people from when I was a kid were still alive. Wow. I was just like, damn. Does nobody smoke?

Because usually it's the smoking that gets you. I think there's a few dyed-in-the-wool smokers, but I don't see many of them. Right. Yeah. Nobody does anymore. I live in the woods yeah yeah you bought yourself a farm i did had you always wanted to kind of and is it a work it's kind of a working farm isn't it it's well my house burned down in 2017 so it's kind of not a working farm right now

i see but we've been trying me and jeff who was just off camera, have been trying to set up the foundations of being able to actually work it. I see. Because there are some parts of it that are leased out. Well, not leased, that my neighbors use for grazing cows or hay. Yeah. And then part of it became kind of a wildlife rehabilitation area because there's so much milkweed here that I just let it go. And now we have lots of monarch butterflies. Oh, cool.

So trying to kind of see if I can do that. And then I'll probably farm some trees. Yeah. And it used to be a sheep farm, people I bought it from, but I'm not a real, like if I could kill a tree, I'm not going to look after any sheep. I get it. Yeah. Mammals are very intensive, you know, labor intensive.

Yeah. Exactly. And if something happens to me, I know that my dogs and the cat will eat me. So that, I mean, they have that going for them for them but sheep i don't really think they would do that so right no no yeah they would wait for the grass to grow up through your corpse and then they would maybe have them they're too polite yeah they're just too polite well that's cool now when you say corpse now when you say uh when you say like monarch butterflies, like can you get like some sort of status as a sanctuary for that? You can.

And I have not tried that. But my farm is in the current use program, which means it's open for logging or farm animals or what have you. So that kind of all falls in line. or what have you so that that kind of all falls in line um i do grow vegetables and hopefully will be full-time farming at some point yeah but it's not really been uh the most uh i just i haven't been home yeah well that's what i was gonna say it's got to be hard to be a rocker and a farmer. Satan is a really harsh boss. And, you know, when you give your life to Satan for rock and roll, you don't really get a pick. You don't always get a pick when you're home.

No, no. Yeah, Satan doesn't care about your fucking monarch butterflies. No, he fucking doesn't. He could just make those if he wishes. That's right. If he so desires yeah yeah and they you know and they'll you know spit acid or something yeah um well you've lived all over the place uh and and um do you do you think you're settled here now do you think you'll be oh yeah yeah yeah

i love it here i don't i don't really want to move anywhere. Did you not like wandering? Or did it have its place at a time? It has its place, and it still does. If I didn't work for Satan, I don't think I would get... I might actually start to go a little stir-crazy, but in this time of forced being at home, I haven't really felt that. I've kind of needed a break from the

road so this massive uh human population devastation came along at a really good time yeah it's funny because i've i've there i have friends and they're well i mean most of my friends are show business in one way or another and i have have friends who sheepishly admit, like, I kind of like this. Like, I kind of like having to stay home and having to be with my family. Yeah. It's really nice. And, you know, if Jeff and I didn't travel together, I don't think I'd ever see him. So luckily, he works with me a lot of the time.

But, you know, I get really sad about the animals. And it's nice to see a season happen. I haven't been here to see like the little creatures budding in the forest, you know, in a long, long time. So it's a world of natural wonders that I've been missing. And so I feel pretty good and balanced. And, you know, I sound sarcastic about it, but I'm trying, I'm definitely trying to find the silver lining of, you know, all of my work being canceled.

And, you know, I'm still ghost working. Meaning? Because, well, there's like a bunch of other projects you know, I'm still ghost working. Meaning? Cause, uh, well, there's like a bunch of other projects I'm writing for. So there's that, which is nice.

Um, Satan's always got something. Sure. Going on. Right. But he's very diversified. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. If I'm not, uh, you know, putting corpses through the grinder i'm working on a broadway show right sure why not what which is another way to put corpses through a grinder you know depending on the show yeah exactly now where are you originally from washington state you were born in washington state yeah no i was born in alexandria virginia fairfax county because my dad was in the air force oh i see but that's the only reason i was born there is because he was stationed there at the time but my family are all washington state uh people originally well i mean not really they're yeah yeah immigrants but that's kind of yeah yeah well

that's what i mean yeah um they're ukrainians in washington state who farmed and then some of them were i don't know uh white people various white people who came from Oklahoma to do farming. Yeah. Yeah, they really know how to find each other. Are there a lot of Ukrainians in Washington State? No. There aren't? No.

I mean, there might be now, but at the time, I really think we were the only ones. Wow. And I thought we were Russians. Oh, really? Because they didn't, my family who actually came over from Ukraine, came through Russia, and they would never speak of it. Oh, really? Because they didn't, my family who actually came over from Ukraine came through Russia, and they would never speak of it. Oh, wow. And they didn't teach their kids to speak it. Yeah. Because, you know, and I remember going to visit my uncle Bill at one point to look at some old documents, you know, like how they, when they came into the country.

And I could read Russian, but I didn't speak it well. And so I read him the documents. And so he was like, oh, yeah. And so he kind of told me what some stuff meant. And he's like, well, I don't speak Russian. I only speak Ukrainian because we're Ukrainian. And I think I was like 30 at that point and I'm like oh okay well I know uh actually I have a friend that's Ukrainian and uh he and his family just speak in Russian and he said that

you had to kind of he had to learn Ukrainian in school but that's not really what anybody uses just because of oh you know the oppression uh because the occupation and the oppression exactly and i've been told by ukrainian people like do do not pronounce like an occupier oh really don't don't roll the r there or whatever for whatever phrasing like no no you're speaking like an occupier yeah did did uh being one of the few ukrainians did it give you a feeling of being othered in any way i mean you know no they never spoke of it yeah we were white trash like okay that we just fit right in with that it was kind of i i was born in 1970 so it was still of the era that your otherness was not to be spoken of really because you did you really did not want to be other yeah especially you know during the cold war absolutely you don't you

don't really want to be russians because you know nobody really knew what ukrainians were at the time yeah not that they necessarily do now but no i know no people they're not they're very sort of i mean aside from 90 day fiance i think that's people's maybe their biggest i don't know if you know that show i don't a lot of ukrainian uh a lot of people wanting to marry ukrainian women on that show it's a oksana yeah i love you yes yeah no i think that's i think that that's right i think people i read one thing i will all it blew my mind and it's and i this is kind of name droppy but it's i've been on a tv show forever and one of the coolest things about that was that i got to know Tony Bennett because he was on our show every Christmas time. I know.

And my ex-wife and I ran into him once on 6th Avenue. And he was on his way to Berlitz where he was taking Italian courses because he did not speak Italian. He said his parents refused to speak Italian at home. Yeah. And he never knew Italian. So he's like, he said, my new girlfriend wants to go to Italy and she wants me to learn. So, you know. Well, that was big of him.

Yeah, I think his girlfriend was 17 probably. I know. All the TV shows that you watch too. It's always like everybody's, you know, speaking the mother tongue, but. No. Nope. No, it wasn't like that at all yeah yeah and i remember my roommate he my old roommate in vancouver uh this was a good example of that he was chinese well he

still is chinese and uh our landlord was chinese and my roommate was like a 35 year old rock and roll guy who played bass in a band you know like yeah and i and i asked him once i was like a 35-year-old rock and roll guy who played bass in a band, you know, like. Yeah. And I asked him once, I was like, so, you know, what do you know about your parents' history and all that? And he's like, I'm like about the culture. And he's like, oh, I'm a tunnel-headed rocker. I don't know about that. So it was really great when our landlord would come over because he would kind of only speak to Kev because, you know, obviously they were both Chinese.

And so he would be speaking to Kev in Cantonese and Kev would be like, all right, turn the heater up. Okay, don't go past 60. All right. Like, just like the most Canadian guy ever. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, my landlord speaking to me sounded super fast. And then Kev's really laconic. Yeah, sure.

Lovely, very laid back. Did he speak Cantonese back to him? No, he would only speak English back to him like that. But they both spoke English and Cantonese, but it was just like yeah what do you choose to speak at the time right yeah cuz I wonder what Cantonese with a Canadian accent sounds like well a lot of A's thrown in there no but he did teach me to say a couple really good things like I just puked and i don't want to what's uh i just puked

and i think i don't want to as chatna so we would say that to each other all the time right usually those two phrases those two phrases are not in that order. They're in opposite order. I don't want to. It's followed by, I just puked. I think elephant is daibonjirin. Oh, wow. I don't think I said it right, because his sisters has had nicknames. Malau was monkey.

I remember. And one of his sisters was nicknamed elephant? Yep. Oh, my God. That's awful i think she might have just had really she might have stamped around oh okay or had big ears maybe i was hoping yeah i don't know big she was just a big benevolent flappy eared sweet elephant who was terrified of mice Happy-eared, sweet elephant. Who was terrified of mice.

Yes. So how many kids were in your family? Just me. Yeah? Oh, just you? Mm-hmm. Now, when you came back to Washington, was your dad out of the Air Force at that point? Yes.

Yeah. He wasn't in it for, I think it was because Vietnam ended and, you know, where's the fun in that? I guess we'll just go back to Washington. Yeah. And what did he do for a living? He was a draftsman and an electrical engineer. But

more like a draftsman. You know, honestly, I can't really say that i know my family or my parents that well i know weird stuff about them but like if you ask me my dad's birthday i couldn't tell you really but you know they they were like 17 when they had me oh okay and i was not really a great idea for their lives. So needless to say, they did not marry because they were madly in love. They were just madly pregnant. And did they stay married?

No. No. No. I got a good stepdad out of the deal and a couple of really great cousins. But for the most part, my family are like pretty gnarly. Really? Grifter, kind of scammy. Yeah.

My grandparents are lovely. Yeah. But they made these horrible children. Paternal and maternal, both grandparents? Both sets are good? Yeah, they were pretty great. Oh, that's great. They were pretty great i mean i my my mom's

dad i was never allowed to see him but my step-grandfather was i just think of him as my grandfather so oh okay and then my stepdad's parents were also really really wonderful people and that's nice yeah yeah so i guess we just skip a generation super hard in my family but was there at a certain age did you realize like these people are not all they should be for me or you know it took a long time but yeah yeah yeah i i oh, that's really messed up. Like, actually pretty abusive. Oh, really? But, you know, kids, it's their first reality, right?

Sure, of course. So it's all they know. So they're like, oh, this must be happening at other people's houses, too. Yeah. But then you go start staying overnight at your friend's house. I think you figure out how poor you are or how wherever you are in society before you figure out if your parents are complete turds or not first. Yeah. I don't know.

Was it like kind of an indifference or was it more active than that? There was some meanness. Like they didn't beat me or anything, but they definitely didn't want me either. So it was pretty weird. It was very lonely. It was a very lonely time. That's one of the just, you know, I've known people where, you know, that have had parents, it's mostly dads, who i never wanted kids and just they just the casualness that one

rattles that off with or you know or you were an accident like that's just like it doesn't that's sort of like setting a foundation that's a little bit unstable at least want to feel like you're our love child you know you could yeah yeah well i know then that's that yeah that's good parenting like you were a special mystery gift you know yeah santa claus yeah ew um yeah i i don't. I don't take it personally. I did for a long time, but I definitely don't now. And it's funny because a lot of times when I talk about this stuff, people, they just go, oh, I'm so sorry. And then they stop talking.

Or if you tell somebody something super funny, they don't know if they can laugh at it. Right. But it's really fucking funny yeah some of it yeah you know it really is yeah i mean especially when you're a lot smarter than your parents you're like oh those cute those chimps they tried to have a baby and they, look what they done to it. Yeah. I also, too, it's, I'm just, I'm trying to think of how to do this without specifics. Because I have too many family members that listen to this podcast. But just, I also, too, I always love, and I mean, it was part of our family to laugh at the awful stuff like something

really kind of i mean not you know not like something violent or anything but like huge kind of emotional outburst you know somebody just really laying it out there and then they're being sort of like stifled giggles about it well i mean laughing is a very legitimate response to being anxious you know i know i remember once at the border the border god the border border god that was not a freudian slip the border guard was busting us for being a band when we were actually, it was a big thing. Like we were Americans coming into America and we decided like, well, probably be better if we don't tell them we're in a band, even though it was totally legal. Like we were so border whipped because going through the border has never been fun being

in a band. It's always been really invasive and shitty and they hate you you for being in a band a lot of the time. Because they assume you have drugs and stuff, yeah? If they, yeah. So I remember a guy, I think he found, like, I was with my band Mao, and we were coming into America, and we had postcards with our faces on it.

And he's like, so you're not in a band eh well then who's this and he pulled the card out from behind his back and we just were pissing ourselves laughing he's like i don't know why you think this is so funny you're in very serious trouble and we were just pissing ourselves like we could not stop laughing it really was the funniest thing ever it would have been awesome if you pulled out a t-shirt. You know, if he just like kept pulling out piece after piece of merch. Oh, if he just ripped his border guard shirt open and he was wearing one of our shirts. Or a tattoo.

His Mao tattoo, yeah. Well, who's my favorite band? And it's just like a huge, yeah. Well, what kind of kid were you? I mean, did you end up, you know, acting out because of this? Or I mean, what were you? No, I was a pretty nice, quiet little kid. I don't know.

It was such a strange time. Like there was a certain generation that was like just ahead of me that I think brought attention to the fact that you can't just ignore your children and maybe neglect isn't such a great thing. So I was like super ADD and ADHD, whatever it was at the time. And so I didn't really do that well in school, but I was really quiet and well behaved. So nobody told my parents that um not that they would care but there was a point where i actually didn't go to school a lot i was like tired or whatever and i i was like i'll watch cartoons and then i'll show up later what age what age is this this was like fifth sixth fourth grade around there don't you

nobody told my dad oh you do yeah but nobody bothered to tell my dad wow so i don't i got away with it but that wouldn't really happen now i don't think i don't think i don't know you know i think i was not an aggressive boy. And so that might be why, if I wasn't causing a problem, because I remember my poor cousin, he had ADHD really bad and like had to be on Ritalin. And like the sweetest guy ever, you know, he would have like hard times with his temper. And so the family was kind of focused on that,

which I totally get. Like I had no idea that I needed some help with focus or whatever. But so I was just kind of invisible. I was a quiet, invisible person. And were you okay with that? Unless people picked on me, I was pretty okay with it.

Yeah. Because, you know, the friends, the friends I ended up making were pretty great a lot of times. But then some kids would pick on you or me and they would bully me a little bit, which I didn't really put up with all that much. Yeah. I mean, there was some things that I let happen that, you know, I was just trying to be nice. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I know, I know. I think about just being a kid and just being so afraid of either getting in trouble or, like, you know, looking back and just thinking, like, how much shit I ate from different kinds. And I was always kind of big, so it's not like I was bullied. But there were definitely kids who I will never forget who just seemed to have like a thing about me. You know, just wanted, there was like two or three. And I would just, there's times I look back and I just think, ah, I just feel humiliated thinking back about what a fucking.

Yeah. Coward I was, I guess. Well, I mean. How do you react to just straight up cruelty? I know, I know. When you're a kid, you're like, yeah, that cruelty is a very complicated sort of behavior. You're like, that cruelty is a very complicated sort of behavior. And, you know, it's a very malignant, yucky thing.

And it's like, are they being cruel because of a really, you know, they're just super insecure and that kind of behavior will stop soon? Or are they going to, like, be the people who actually torture kittens and stuff? Right, right, yeah. How do we don't have any way of knowing at that point so and especially when we're kids especially i think like i i noticed when my first kid when my son you know we were we're pretty good parents but there was i noticed when he was little and started socializing with other little kids and other little kids might be mean or something to him this look on his face of like what is this like he just had never experienced somebody just being

mean and shitty to him and there is kind of like this like why the fuck are you doing that like that's out of out of you know that comes out of the sky i know he just wants to look behind him like is there somebody else here you're mad at? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. There's a lot of disbelief. Yeah. And I think it's weird. Like, I see a lot of people experiencing that disbelief in adulthood. It's like they've been really sheltered or something.

And you just want to help them out. You're like, don't take that personally because there's really no point. You're like, yeah, don't take that personally because there's really no point. But yeah, it's a really very strange learning thing that you go through as a kid. Do you what do you think can what do you think the transition from being a kid that's, as you said, OK, with being invisible to being someone that stands on stage and, you know, everyone looks at her and hears her voice. I mean, do you think those two things are connected in some way, or do you think there's just sort of a gradual progression from one to the other? Just from wallflower to megalomaniacal tyrant. Yeah, yeah.

To Satan worshipping. Overnight. Satan worshipping rock god. Well, you know, Satan was just a really fun companion you know i could be who i really was with him and he was though you say was it's like are you guys on the outs oh no not at all i i'm still that person but you know there's a period between childhood and adulthood that you and satan get to go to you know festivals together stuff. It's not like your job is super demanding or anything. That's right.

It's before I buckled down. Right. Yeah, you know. And Satan has other things to do. I'm not his only devotee. Such humility. I guess I was always a much louder person than I realized oh I see I think that I was just a quiet wallflower of a kid because there weren't other I don't know I I wasn't I didn't have the

easiest time making friends as a little kid like I remember being in middle school which is like the gnarliest time for most people where you can't believe how petty children can be oh yeah i remember like i was scummy and poor my clothes were stupid and and that's when i actually for half a year i moved to vermont with my stepdad and my mom and all the kids were I think I went to a school where there was literally 40 kids it was like a Norman Rockwell painting and

there was no like deep seated weird like materialism going on we were pretty rural and kids were really nice yeah yeah yeah and people shared stuff and i really really enjoyed myself and i think that was a very life-changing experience and then going back to my junior high i was just like oh fucking kill me already. Yeah. I mean, not in the way that I really wanted to die, but, you know.

Yeah, no, I know what you mean. Yeah. Were you singing at this point? No. No? I mean, I sang along with the radio. Like, I was heavily into music. I was totally obsessed with music.

into music i was totally obsessed with music and uh my dad had a lot of records and so i really enjoyed that and you know i think right when i got rock and roll uh yeah you know heart fleetwood mac stuff like that i was really into that yeah um and uh mtv started like right around the time i got back from vermont so i just like when mtv came to my world i was obsessed oh yeah i was at exactly the right age and i was exactly enough into music to make mtv I was the target audience. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm four years older than you, I think.

And, and it was, it really was when it came around, it was like, what the fuck is this? It just, you couldn't believe that you could just sit and watch. And it's so funny. Cause it was,

it seemed like, okay, now music videos, that's going to be a thing forever. And it, it wasn't. No. And sometimes I go and I watch some of the old videos that are just super conceptual.

And as a young person, I was like, that's deep. Or look at all the space there is for meaning in here. And really, it's just super conceptual and silly, but yeah, you know, I, I don't know what it spoke to in my brain. Like,

just like, Oh, look at all these little worlds. Yeah. Cause I always thought of music, I think is very cinematic. And I think that that just came along right at the exact right time. Yeah.

Make it, make it that in real life. And at what point did you start making music? I started playing drums in a band right around, I was like 17, I think. Do you just pick up the drums? Do you have lessons? No, I had some friends who I was really close to, and they had another band, my friend Greg. And so we just, my friend Greg and Andy and my friend

Laura. And so we decided to start a band because we were always hanging out over there anyway. And there's a full drum set set up and I wanted to play the drums and they were like, sure, anyway, and there's a full drum set set up and I wanted to play the drums and they were like, sure, let's do it. So I don't know, they made me feel good about myself and it was way funner than I thought it was going to be, that's for sure. And, you know, I started on the drums probably because I was super aggressive at the same time as being super shy. Yeah, yeah. So it was a really good, it was a good fit. But then, you know, I realized later that I was not the greatest drummer in the world,

but I wanted to sing all the, like, I sang all the time and that's all I wanted to do. Yeah. But I didn't really do it in front of people, per se. Really? I wasn't, i'm not like a hey look at me kind of guy yeah so it wasn't really like that are you now when you get into your teen years and you start to have to kind of you know i mean the world sort of expects you to start thinking about what you're going to do with yourself. Was it just about music, you think? Or were you just kind of following the fun of music and it just kind of ended up becoming your life? Or your work?

Music, well, even though my family really sucked, like everybody in it liked music and dogs. So there was that. That smooths things over. Yeah, my grandmother on my mom's side loved country music, so she listened to lots of really great country music, so I liked country music too. And, you know, rap music started in my childhood. Like, all these cool things were just beginning and

it was so cool to see them start happening yeah and so it was definitely worth paying attention to it wasn't a negative thing it wasn't uh i don't know. I think I'm sure you felt this too, just the constant dread of nuclear war was looming over us all the time. So whatever bad's going on in your life, in mine it was the threat of nuclear war, the constant reminder of the threat of nuclear war, and then whatever fucked up religion

your parents are getting into at the time like my i remember my dad becoming a seventh day adventist but like no he couldn't just become a regular one he had to go for the super hardcore ones where like oh all these rock and roll records that you've been loving your whole life that make you feel at home these are satanic and i can tell you firsthand my family never learned who satan was they were looking in the wrong place and um they had the wrong guy they had the wrong guy yeah um what did he do did he get rid of his albums was he doing that kind of shit like uh yeah and uh some of them he just kept and like you know drinking caffeine was bad so we would have like you can't have a coke anymore you have to have a caffeine free coke or i don't know it was dumb

and you know hardly a hardship but when you're not noticed by your family and then all of a sudden you have to adhere to these really strict things that make absolutely no fucking sense to you i'm like pepsi's satanic how what like now i know that they pretty much are but in a very different Sure. It's just, and then, but so to the point I was trying to make my, my parents, my dad and his sister and her husband were super into this super hardcore seventh, the Adventist thing. And they would bring home these reel to reel tapes of this guy.

His name was Todd something. I can't remember, but he had these real fire and brimstone sermons about Satan's real. And he's walking down the street and he will reach out and he will kill you. Like, and I'm a kid going, fuck. Life is,

it's, it's already shitty. Like now I got to like carry a knife. Cause Satan's going to be like in his. What do you do? And finally, I was like, I can't take it anymore. Yeah. So they wouldn't play the tapes while I was around.

But just seeing these giant reel to reel tapes of a. Now it's the most ridiculous, hilarious image in my mind. Right. Them sitting around just like hovering over a giant bong listening to this guy he was like literally in the backyard right now just watching us through the fucking window also too pepsi is of satan but a giant bong is okay exactly well that's for pain andy right and it's of nature god well god doesn't want us to suffer well no it it was bad but they were gonna get forgiven for that eventually i guess right right i don't know but i just i just the just picture a giant reel-to-reel, my three totally white trash relatives making the tiniest peanut

butter and tiny cheese cracker sandwiches on a paper plate with the giant tequila sunrise plastic bong. Listening party. Scaring. And it scared the living shit out of me. How old are you at this point? Scaring and it scared the living shit out of me. How old are you at this point? I think I'm like anywhere from 8 to 13.

Jesus Christ. Yeah. It was pretty awesome. Yeah. And I ran into a kid in Hollywood years later who had gone to the same Saturday school as me when we were going to church. And I was like, oh my God! Can you believe they made us go to that fucking wet carpeted pedophile circus?

And he was just like, I really enjoyed my time there. And I was like, oh, fuck, sorry. I mean, yes, the carpet was was wet but i still got a lot out of mildewy carpet pedophile circus fucking oh yeah and then i do remember there was a really great time in saturday school there was this kid and i can't remember his name and i really wish i could because saturday school is like sunday, but you go on Saturday. And my group of kids were like the young teens or whatever. And Def Leppard was really huge at the time. And this kid wore his Def Leppard shirt under his Sunday shirt. And the Saturday school

teacher was giving him a hard time. And he was like, no, I do not believe Def Leppard or Satanic. like no i do not believe dept leopard or satanic and i will not stop listening to them like yeah i kind of swoon when i think back i'm like yeah i wish that i had kept in touch with that kid yeah i was too shy to have like even really talked to him but i wonder what he's doing today wow i may probably he's probably like one cubicle over from me in Satan's office, but wouldn't that be amazing? Yeah, maybe he works for Def Leppard. God, I hope he works for Def Leppard. That'd be nice.

Pussy metal. He defended pussy metal in Saturday school. I don't think I've ever heard the phrase pussy metal. Does that mean it's about pussy? If you're of a certain stripe. No, they're just kind of pussies. It's an insult, I see. Yeah, it's like a soft drop.

It's like hairband or something. Yeah, because when you're just getting into... Motley Crue were way heavier than them, but then if you're listening to Slayer, you're kind of like, that's like kids music. Right. Or Bon Jovi. Bonvi to me was always seemed like the one that was kind of like total pussy metal yeah yeah which is a compliment now because that's just kids not understanding the difference between genres and that all that stuff's bullshit but yeah yeah yeah yeah i was definitely like ah it's total pussy metal but i think he made me kind of respect them through his love of them.

Yeah. You know, that's a, that usually, yeah, no people's appreciation is usually the way to, to appreciate something. You know,

you can, you can definitely glom onto someone's appreciation for it. And yeah, you know, it's that time too, seems to be, I mean, you know,

there's religious kookery at all times, but if there was one, I mean, like I say, I'm four years older than you, but if there was one kind of overarching sociological phenomenon of my, you know, junior high into high school years, it was born again again Christian stuff. It was friends of mine that were just kids, you know, that I'd grown up with. All of a sudden, you know, wearing ties to public high school and literally burning their albums and not going to parties or anything. I mean, at least for a little while, you know, a little storefront church in four years becoming a church where, you know, 1500 people were there or something. It's, you know. Yeah. And that's right around the time like cable TV got big. And so the channels selections, like instead of having, you know, five channels and then HBO Showtime and Cinemax or whatever the F it was. It's like now you have like 25 channels.

And I don't remember seeing more evangelism going on than at that time in my life. It was everywhere. Like the depiction in the movie Repo Man, I always thought was really good. I don't remember that. Unfortunately, you'll just have to go watch Repo Man again. It's been a long time. It totally holds up. Oh, good.

It's so good. I'll show it to my kids because we're always looking for good stuff to look at. I think they would love it. Yeah. It's super weird but yeah evangelism i i suppose a impending nuclear destruction is it kind of fertilizes the fields for that one yeah yeah and i you know and i do think too like the 60s there was kind of everybody went crazy and like it's like there are no boundaries and there's no rules and it's like yeah and you know and then the 70s are kind of like yeah there

actually is when like like you know like yeah there is such a thing as too much drugs and you know cocaine is actually not good for you and i, how did you get, you know, weird sexually transmitted diseases in your nose and in your mouth? Like, how did, we didn't even know that could happen. Yeesh. Yeah, yeah. No, that's not Satan. That's somebody else.

No, that's like, I'm going to have to think about who that is. Satan probably really enjoys it, but that's probably just nature having a time. Well, he's a fan of it. Yeah. He is. Can't you tell my love's a-growing? At what point do you stop singing just for yourself and you start singing for other people? Is there a transition?

Well, the idea that other people were going to be there that weren't in the band was something I just kind of had to ignore. Uh-huh. I played drums in bands for a long time. And this is like in the Seattle scene sort of, or in Tacoma? Tacoma. Yeah. And Seattle did not, they did not acknowledge us, nor did Olympia.

So we were kind of our own little island because we were scummy and poor. But then when I moved to Canada to go to art school, that's when things really picked up. And it was really cool to go there at that time. I think I was 23. And Canada is like one of the biggest countries in the world with one of the smallest populations. And so there wasn't this weird competition. There was still some, you know, kind of juvenile competition or whatever. But like everybody was in like four different bands.

Because if you were like a good drummer, a good bass player on the scene in Vancouver in the 90s, like somebody needs you somewhere at all times. And so it was a pretty peaceful and kind of really nice way to get to know lots of people. Yeah. And after I started touring in Canada, like it was easy to meet a lot of people all across the country. Uh-huh. And it was just, there wasn't as much pressure i think

so it made it where i came from it was more like we're in a gang yeah then oh we're in this uh you know multiverse of not it's just like we're not in a symbiotic relationship with other bands helping each other it's more like we're friends of you knows yes exactly yeah it was one of like yeah it was weird do you think had you started singing in Washington or you know because you go behind the band behind early at the back of the stage to the front of the stage. And that's a big. Well, I started as a singing drummer, which was really fun. Yeah.

Coming out from behind the drums was not a very fun experience. And I didn't play guitar yet. So I felt nude and weird. Yeah. Exposed. But I did it anyway. Yeah. Because like what I don't know it's like well

there's this weird thing that kind of dawns on you like okay so art is and and this is totally from the reagan era too where if you wanted to do something creative or something in music um writing stuff something in comedy entertainment anything it was considered a pipe dream yeah if you weren't looking to go to business school or bid you know in a conventional career you were a fucking liability yeah so you're already at ground zero like i'm already down in the tire track of how low i can get because I like this thing. Yeah. And then, well, I'm a boring white girl.

Like, nobody's going to care. So, kind of, what do I have to lose also? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, if I have nothing to lose, might as well do it. Yeah. And then, the more you do it, the more legitimate as a human being you feel in a way. Unless it's not the thing that you wanted to do.

Unless you get in a band and you realize, this really isn't for me. Some people don't like being on stage or don't like touring or whatever. But it definitely was fertilizer for me. Yeah. was fertilizer for me yeah i and i think too i mean there's a kind of an analog for me for doing comedy and doing live improv shows and there is that point where i realize i really want to do this and really what are the stakes like these 25 people what are they going to do you know they're they gonna follow me home and make fun of me you know i mean yeah it's over it's you go there and

you do it and either do well or you don't you know and as you and as you you know as you progress and as you learn something the whole worrying about whether you do well or whether you don't you realize oh you can't look at you know like if you if you're focused on that you're fucked you know you gotta you gotta not you know i always say you can't give a shit but it's it's not exactly not giving a shit it's but it's a kind of carefreeness you know yeah and uh to just you to just go do it and you got to be in it you got to you got to just let people see you living in that space at that time uh yep without worrying about a bunch of judgment so yeah which totally goes back to the guy in my saturday school defending def leopard

yeah it's kind of like when you see people stand up in that way, like, no, this is what I'm into. If you don't like it, so what? I'm not going to go to hell for this. But, you know, I will also ignore your ridicule. Right. God, I wish I knew his name. Well, maybe he'll hear this. Maybe he will.

At least 30 or 40 people listen to this thing, so maybe. But he'll hear me have called them pussy metal, and he'll be like, I hope you get boils on your face. How dare you? Listen, if he can't at this point have a little bit of magnanimity about somebody calling Def Leppard pussy metal. Yeah. He's had a i know if he's upset that 12 or 13 year old me called them pussy metal yeah yeah um you know you went you went to vancouver for art school um and what tell me about that well

what was art school like what were you looking to get out of art school? Well, I had always drawn and loved art. And I took a bit in junior college in Washington State in Tacoma at Tacoma Community College. Oh, yeah. TCC. Sweet, sweet TCC. Yeah. yeah tcc sweet sweet tcc yeah uh and so vancouver had this program or at least the the school i went to emily carr college of art design they had a program where if you lived in washington state they would do this thing where you could go for the same price as a canadian which we all know

is the price of community college if you want to go to real college yeah yeah because they kind of care about education there so i was able to afford to go to a real college because they admitted me and i think i'm probably the last person to have gotten that because they were probably like why the fuck are we giving this to some American? Don't they have enough? Yeah. I had the greatest time of my life at that school. I loved it so much. I worked so hard.

And I'm sure that being in bands at that time really helped what I was doing. And, you know, it's kind of, you go there to learn how you learn. In what way? Talk about that. Like, how does being in the band help your visual art? Because you have to deal with people in the real world. We were a small band. We had to book our own shows. We had to get paid.

We had to organize our practice space, which we shared with other people. Like, you know, you live in a micro world, in a micro economy, and you really have to learn how to trim the fat and how to, you know, present yourself to people and how to get what you need. Yeah.

And how to do it without being a total shit bird. Yeah, yeah. Because we were not into being shit birds. Yeah. And so that informs your art you're making art about being part of a community as opposed to making art about art exactly and in vancouver at the time it was like i said you know there were only a handful of musicians but there was a really great music scene because everybody played in each other's bands. So it was very healthy and really, it was a great time to be there.

And I'm so grateful I was. What took you out of Vancouver? Because you went to Seattle next, was that right? I only kind of limped back to Seattle in defeat because, you know, my visa was up. Oh, I see. I was poor. Oh, because you were out of school. Oh, I see.

Exactly. I was living there on a student visa. So, you know, unless I married someone or something, I wasn't going to get to stay. And nobody was going to give me a job. So I didn't want to get barred from Canada because it was, you know, my life, my family. And I really valued it. And I still do. Like, I feel like a North American rather than an American or a Canadian or whatever. And I really, I still am in a Vancouver band, which still tours and has existed the exact same amount of time as my solo band. And then I play with my friend Carolyn sometimes from that area.

And it's such a organic living thing. Yeah. And I would not have left it if i had my way i would have moved to toronto but i went back to seattle for a while and the music scene was gone and it was what year is this this would this would have been 1998 okay and uh you know there wasn't anything affordable. I think I literally lived in the last live workspace that artists had in Seattle in the Records was, who were my friends who were going to put out some of my music. And Chicago was wonderful. And I made some of the best friends I've ever had. And I still am very attached to that as well.

Like Seattle, I love it. And Hattie's Hat and the Tractor Tavern that's kind of my Seattle but it doesn't everyone left or I don't know what happened it's like the combination of Microsoft and other stuff like two million of the

greediest people on earth moved there overnight and it was a bad fit it was a bad fit yeah wow i've never thought it was a bad fit it was like everybody complaining that it was raining all the time yeah and you're like are you fucking kidding me do you know where where did you did you i'm sorry are we keeping you from somewhere else better like what and it was kind of you know the startup thing of what's happening in the bay area it's like do you how

far do you go before the people who do all the jobs that you don't want to do can't be here anymore yeah like if this isn't sustainable and it's overnight and yeah you know i didn't i felt sad about it for a while and then i realized you, if I was an indigenous person from one of the tribes in that area, I would laugh me out of the building and off of a cliff for feeling any kind of sentimentality about the Seattle area because it isn't stupid. Yeah. And it's wrong. And it's like, yeah, it would really be ridiculous to waste energy on that yeah it is when you put it like that it is kind of like colonialism it's like what happens to seattle what happens to san francisco it is just like people come in people

with money come in and they just they don't deal with the reality of the place they come in to create a reality of the a new reality of the place yeah and seattle was really good at you know having advertising campaigns like come visit the pacific northwest like you know the travel commercials that used to be on tv and yeah it would show like the art scene and the music scene and then and just the art scene it's such a beautiful place it was yeah i guess no it is i mean just the nature wise you know nature wise you got to just the greenery and the water and it's no it's a beautiful place yeah and now i like they're still really great people there but i also think it's the angriest place that i've i've ever been wow i've never been anywhere with like such bad social human to human vibe wow it's not good yeah but the really great people are still there and i think they kind

of foster these little micro scenes of people who can still have that open friendliness together what made did you choose chicago just because you had friends and band? Well, you said, and then, and the record company was there. Yeah. And I loved it. I loved the, the buildings. I love good town. It's a fucking great town.

Yeah. Yeah. I still love it. I do too. Oh my God. I, I would have stayed, but I couldn't afford to stay anymore.

In what sense? Well, I, I lived there for a few years and uh i remember i got after i don't know almost 15 years of being in a band i got like a royalty check of everything that I'd been owed. And I had like this, I think it was like $20,000 and I had never had anything nearing that amount of money in my life. And it scared the living shit out of me. And, um, I was like,

okay, if I don't do something with this money now, it's going to like, it's going to disappear. Yeah. And so I remember I spoke to the landlord of our building in chicago with some of the other neighbors in the building like hey can we buy this building you guys aren't doing anything with it and they were like we're gonna they were lawyers and they

were total assholes they were like we should put a lawsuit on you for even asking like they were the most litigious people i've ever they were so overly litigious but so i was like okay well i can't afford to live in chicago and everything in chicago at that time was like half a million dollars for a house seen on cops earlier and i was like you know i've always lived in really violent neighborhoods and i don't want to do it anymore I want to I mean I want to yeah I'd stay here if I could but like that's I don't have that kind of money so I ended up going to Tucson because I worked there a lot and I felt relaxed there and I thought well I'll just I will have a new adventure so i moved to tucson and i loved it

and it was wonderful and i made a lot of records there yeah and i realized you could still have really close relationships with people not that in a different city and it wasn't right wasn't the end of the world yeah um yeah that i mean that's kind of like a cool thing that you got to pick and choose city you know you hang out in tucson tucson for a little while and go like you know what this is all right you know i mean it's not i'd show up in a town fuck everybody suck the life out of it move on yeah leave it smoldering ruins oh neutron bomb case yeah now you you have you know your your voice is i if i can be all gushy is just an amazing force and it is such a truly an instrument and thank you well you're welcome and uh is there any kind like is there training involved or you just is this just a product of

getting on stage and and doing it um i think it's just from doing it really and it's from the desire yeah like the the the hyper focused kind of it's like a really restless desire feeling mm-hmm that I still have It looks very different than it used to, but it's definitely... I'm not a disciplined person, so it was definitely more of an impulse or... I'm trying to think of the right word, which I totally know, yet for some reason, since I'm on the spot, I can't... Instinctive?

No. I'll think of it. I'll think of it. But I want to do a really good job and I try really hard. Yeah. Compulsion is the word I was trying to think of. I see, I see.

Compulsion, yes. So there was just no chance of you being a middling singer you're gonna be a no i could be i'm sure i could be a really middling singer and i'm i still definitely think of myself as one so like i'm never gonna arrive somewhere where i'm like listening to my own singing and going you are good like there's just it's a catch-22 like if you want I mean I know that there are people who feel that way about themselves but I hear myself too much and I don't know it when you really love music and you I'm sure I sing because of other singers and just the way they affected me

and how i feel when i listen to them i'm never going to be them and i think there's something about you know just the way we grow up in this culture that like if you're not completely someone else, you've somehow failed. Yeah. Like it's in yourself, I guess. Yeah. It's like maybe it's just a childhood thing that didn't go away because I didn't really have any guidance. Mm-hmm. Like that could be. No, I'm sure.

I think, well, I think too. I mean, my version of that is things that I'm good at without having to work too hard at um i devalue like if i and i i mean and i you know i make a living being a bullshitter and being a pretender and being a joke maker and so i obviously can do these things and they are valued things. You know, people pay money for them. But the parts of it that I didn't have to work at that are just kind of like something that was in me that I just learned to manipulate. I still just feel like, well, that doesn't count.

I mean, that's just that's just my bullshit coming out. And I found a record to make a few dollars off it. Yeah. Do you think that's a similar kind of feeling? I think it is. Yeah. And, you know, just being a person who, you know, I've dealt with depression and low self-esteem.

And I think that plays into, and my family, when I was, I remember when I was little and they did not talk about themselves, A, because they were immigrants, but also vanity was considered one of the worst possible sins. Yeah. So if you talked about yourself too much, you might get, well, no bragging now or something or don't get vain. Too big for your britches. Don't be vain. Yeah.

And so I think that really hit me as something that would be get vain. Too big for your britches. Don't be vain. Yeah. And so I think that really hit me as something that would be really embarrassing was to be vain and to overvalue myself. So I think I just like have a real tone it down kind of machine in there that's like don't do it now at what point do you start writing songs i mean are you doing that right from the get-go i found it easier to write songs than to learn to play other people's songs because i'm not like a natural guitar player uh-huh um so making the chords could be done. Figuring out the chords to other people's songs took a long time.

So I just started making up my own. And I had been writing songs lyrically with a band, Mal, that I was in with two other ladies. And so I had a little bit of experience to fall back on and, and we would write them together and, and supported each other. And so it was like, Oh,

okay. This is kind of fun. Yeah. And they, you know, the, the, the act of that,

you know, where you're actually, you know, that, cause I think, you know, you kind of start know that because i think you know you kind of start from sort of a punk scene and the songs are kind of more i i just you know it's punk you know it's like it's not expressing sort of the deeper the deeper more grown-up feelings i would imagine and i mean and how did how does that evolution we wrote a song about

beating people up yeah see people yeah yeah as you should stuff and yeah as you should yeah yeah but i mean but at a certain point you've got to start writing about your feelings and i know is that difficult i mean was difficult? I think my love of country music made that not difficult. Okay. Because country music really supports the idea that you sing about your most grievous experience happening. Without any irony either. There's no layer of like, I'm distanced from this. I'm sad. And I'm singing about how sad I am. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, my grandma, she listened to like things as modern as like Clint Black and stuff. And she still watched the Opry.

But, you know, the record she had in her house were like the classics. You know, she had Patsy Cline and Loretta Lynn and, you know, Hank Williams and stuff. you know, Hank Williams and stuff. And those people like Hank Williams specifically could write something that would just gut you in the most simplest language. And that was a skill that I thought I see people even now try to do it and they don't even realize how far off the mark they are. It's like, no dude yeah yeah you either please don't write another song about drinking stuff please yeah yeah you know driving

your truck down to the river and you know yeah yeah the country the country of now like that's not even it doesn't it's pussy rock if you It's like pussy rock with different accents. I would call it pussy rock if pussies were allowed anywhere near it. But it is this extremely heterosexual white male scene. Yeah, it is. It is. Or on the surface anyway. When I tell people I like country music and they go like, do you like? And then they'll name somebody from the last 10 minutes. surface anyway when i tell people i like country music and they go like do you like and then

they'll name somebody from the last 10 minutes and i'm like i don't have a fucking clue as to who that is you're you're like no yeah i really don't yeah i don't like that country music um well now your songwriting is it has it's not like anybody else's it's like it there's very much unique sort of structure and phrasing and the way that it hits the you know i'm generalizing over all of your songs but you know but like okay it doesn't yeah it doesn't you know like the approach to the chorus it's it's like verse chorus verse chorus but it's all a little bit kind of muddied up, like messed up. Like you don't, you play with it as much, you know.

And what, where do you get off doing that is what I'm saying. It's like, it's a really brave way to write a song. Well, it's one of the luxuries of not knowing exactly how wrong you are if you're not trained in something. Yeah. And it's kind of like, okay, I'm at the end of what's considered the verse, but I'm not done saying that thing. So I'm going to have to add something there.

Yeah. And for some reason, I really had it in my mind like what do we have to go verse chorus verse chorus what if the song doesn't have a chorus yeah like that was kind of the punk rock part of me that was like why does it got to do that yeah but then I also enjoyed I don't know like I think I got way more into the story than I realized I would. And so I realized that editing is probably the greatest skill you can have when you're writing a song. But then sometimes there are things when you don't go down the road of kill your darlings and you decide to accommodate for your darlings.

Yeah. That also is kind of okay and can make something really interesting yeah the combo of the two yeah seems to work good but yeah i definitely tried to do things differently at a certain point and then my other band the new pornographers you know we would go on a tour and there would be five people singing harmonies. And I would be like, well, choruses are kind of bad. Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe they're not total. I could maybe put some in. Yeah. Yeah. No, I always think like I love, I love and appreciate people that break the form. But then I also, as I've gotten older, I realized the form exists for a reason.

We, as a species, got together and said, yeah, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus. I like that. Yeah, I think that was like a radio thing or something or how long we could fit on this disc yeah it's like we're not going to use the dictaphone anymore so now we're going to go with this flat thing and yeah how many minutes will this hold like it probably has to do with that but i don't know yeah well what do you i mean i know this is a you know the the whole gimmick of this thing is three questions and the second one is where are you going and um you know do where are you going what do you what do you do you have

any sort of plans or is it kind of just one foot in front of the other you have a is there a is there a a blueprint that you're following or um no trying to get my house built that would be good like where are you in the fire situation really made me realize all right making plans is really dumb because your house could burn down and now we're in the middle of a pandemic so that's also rather sobering in the world of plan making um are you in like temporary housing on the property i'm in like a piece of my house that didn't burn down which is like the kitchen and the breakfast nook and so we kind of built onto that and so we have a livable area but most of my house is just kind of a drywall shell. I see. And a terrifying basement.

Well, there's no basement. Wait, what is that? Well, you were posting pictures online of like... Oh, that's in the building in town where we have our practice space. Oh, okay. It's in an old post office. Oh, wow. And that building is like 4,000 square feet, and it's just a concrete box. is like 4 000 square feet and it's just a concrete box and it's endless rooms that used to accommodate like giant oil containers and furnaces and things to run sorting machines government building yeah

at the time i mean it closed down in the 60s i think but that basement was everything from boiler furnace area to they used to have USO dances there. And all the people who used to go to them are still alive and are happy to tell you about them, which is pretty exciting. That's awesome. Which is one of the reasons I love it. That's very helpful. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So any beyond the house? I mean, it'd be nice if you had a nice place to live, I suppose. Well, I'm working on songs for a musical that I'm not allowed to talk about yet. Collaborating? Yeah, a little bit. It's really a heavy experience. And, you know, I know nothing about Broadway and I know nothing about that world. So it's been a very interesting learning experience. And it's been a very heavy duty collaborative as far as like working with other people who are making the story. And that's been really fun. Yeah.

I love it. Yeah. Because with my own band, I'm the boss of everything. And that is exhausting. And being a control freak definitely doesn't really satisfy. So thank goodness for the new pornographers and this job because they balance all that out. Yeah, yeah. I see that.

Yeah, I've always liked doing different stuff and enjoyed the way that they all inform each other that any one gig makes me better at another gig, you know. And it creates a kind of holistic understanding. Was there anything that you want to plug right now? I like that you have been specific about where people can get your music, where you actually get some money from it. Yes. And go ahead and tell people where they should be listening to your catalog. Well, my website is the best place to get my music. Local record stores, the little ones,

are the, the, the best place. Yeah. Because you help me and you help a local record store. So that's my favorite. But if you're just like, you know, buying online, like you don't want the actual physical copy um my website has a link to how to buy them from me and my record company uh anti records who are not mine like i don't own them but we are we're partners you know

and we definitely work together to help each other so cool or just on tour which obviously we're not on tour but yeah that's i think that's the best way to buy anybody's music is to go to their website there's usually a a thing cool um yeah i might i i'm like i don't even remember my job right now i'm like oh yeah that's right i'm not just building a house of those things yeah right right well um what's the you know the then the third question of this is uh what have you learned and i mean is there sort of do people seek out advice you out for advice or you know there are people that sort of like, I want to be you? Yeah. I mean, do you have sort of a set answer?

I always had the idea that you don't have to be dicks to people in the world to get what you want. That's a really good one. And, you know, there was a point where I always believed it 100%. But, you know, when you go into a hard situation, there's points where you like second guess yourself or, well, that's going to make it a lot easier. Or if somebody really makes you feel sick inside your stomach, don't fucking work with them. You don't have to yeah and something else will come along it always does yeah and own your recordings yeah own your own recordings i guess i guess that's what i've learned i mean way more than that

but i i think i'd have to write a book about it to get it all in there. Is that something you ever think of doing? Do you think about writing books? Oh, yeah. I want to write a book like that about music and art, and then I just want to write a fiction book. Yeah. Because stories are great.

They are great. I could listen to them all day. I love stories. You and me both. Yeah. Well, Nico, thank you so much for taking time to do this. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Yeah. You were always there for me in the early days of making music. Oh, thank you i i remember you know you and conan came on right in like the really important years living in tacoma and i would watch the show with all my friends oh we would tune in on purpose and yeah yeah we had really we we got to well we had a great a guy named jim pitt uh was our band i remember yeah and um he works for jimmy kimmel now and uh but he he was great he just he picked such he had such great taste which is you know that's that job is being a tastemaker and also like a you know you got to deal with some pretty colorful personalities so you got to learn how to kind

of mediate but we also too we were you know we used to get guests just because we were kind of the new small junior show that we would we didn't we couldn't get the big guests so we would have people like shelly winners on or you know an up-and-coming gwyneth paltrow or you know and i mean and i loved it it was perfect and it was the same thing with musical acts like you too wasn't going to come on but we could get you you know we could get like all these bands that weren't going to be on other places on television and it was one of the really kind of magical things about those early years um yeah and like before i even like ever got to be even on tour like just a person who loved music living it's come watching like your show had just started and you guys were so fucking weird and funny.

Like it's exactly what we were open to. And it was so much weirder than David Letterman. And it wasn't like I had to choose between the two things, but I grew up on David Letterman and Johnny Carson and I love both of them too. So this was like, it's like a show like that, but like just for us, it felt so personal and. And with guys that don't know what they're doing so you know we're just oh yeah yeah no yeah we didn't yeah we were just

kind of there for anyone to say that there was some sort of game plan now we just were just swimming as fast as we could so we didn't drown you know and so we did things like hey what if there was an ostrich that just came out and brought the card for for what's on the show tomorrow who's on the show tomorrow and they built this amazing ostrich costume um and a guy in the toothpaste came out the ostrich's nose i think i pissed in my pants i was laughing so hard it was like that triple stripe yeah yeah it was like what the fuck are they doing the guy one of my favorite sites during those years was the guy a guy named dino stamatopoulos that was his bit and he also

was tamari he was in the outfit and he would walk around with the ostrich legs on but obviously without the ostrich so in a bathrobe and the ostrich legs and he one time was in a fight in an argument with somebody you know and i mean he's one of those people that comedy can be like a jihad you know it's a very serious about you, what's funny and what's not. And he was having an argument with somebody and he was saying things like, you know, like, you're a fucking hack while wearing ostrich legs and a bathrobe. You're like getting really fucking heated about something, you know, with somebody, but with ostrich legs on. It was fantastic. Well, only salute. Tamari. With somebody, but with ostrich legs on. It was fantastic. Well.

Only salute. Tamari. Thank you, Tamari. All right. Well, Nico. So much of the stuff on the show, like over the years, it really will be part of, like, it's never leaving me. Ever. That's great to hear.

Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it. And thank you for spending this time with me. And good luck. It is my pleasure. Good luck. And I hope to see you in person at some point in this life, you know, around campus. And please tell me what your kids think of Repo Man.

I will. I definitely will. I would love to hear that. 100%. All right. Well, thank you very much, man. I will. I definitely will. I would love 100%. All right. Well, thank you very much, Nico. And thank you all out there for listening. And we will get back at you next time on the three questions.

The three questions with Andy Richter is a team Coco and Earwolf production. It's produced by me, Kevin Bartelt, executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf production. It's produced by me, Kevin Bartelt, executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, associate produced by Jen Samples and Galit Zahayek, and engineered by Will Becton. And if you haven't already, make sure to rate and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts. on Apple Podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.