The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Phoebe Bridgers

Episode Date: December 1, 2020

Musician Phoebe Bridgers talks with Andy Richter about facing careless criticism, what she likes about the way in which her writing has evolved, and doing press from home for her latest album Punisher.

uh hello internet uh this is or i don't know me you know i guess it's the internet uh podcast people uh it's andy richter with another episode of uh the three Yeah, that's what it's called. And I'm really happy today to be talking to Phoebe Bridgers, who is an amazingly talented artist, singer, songwriter. And do you get wise beyond your years? Do you get that kind of thing? I feel like only from... Are we allowed to curse on this yeah of course i feel like i feel like only from people who are trying to fuck me you know like i feel like oh boy i stepped up right on the right foot no but like my mom like i feel like my friends are like god you're such an idiot

No, but, like, my mom, like, I feel like my friends are like, God, you're such an idiot. I mean, yeah, sure. Like, when people only know my music and haven't seen, like, my Twitter or whatever, sometimes I get, oh, wow, I laugh so loud that this, like, topped out. My microphone topped out. So that's a really good sign. but uh yeah i feel like i've only mostly gotten that from people who've actually met me uh from like yeah people because i don't feel wise beyond my years you know i feel or if i'm wise beyond my years i feel like 30 you know and i'm 26 so i feel i feel maybe like a couple years off, but not like, yeah, I don't feel very wise. Yeah. All right.

Well, now you are a SoCal native. Have you heard this show at all? Do you know this show at all? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, good. Oh, good. So you know that it's kind of, you know, that we're going to get into your history here.

Can't wait. All right. All right. All right. Are you in therapy? May I ask? Yes. And have you been for a while? Um, yeah, I, you know, I think you just kind of try stuff and I didn't know if I liked it and now I'm trying a new thing. Um, I was in talk therapy for a while and then I was like, Ooh, I try emdr um which one is that no it's the one

where they like basically traumatize you and then they calm you down with like lights and touch and yeah yeah yeah it's very hippy dippy um and i went once and then the pandemic started and so now i just talk to that therapist on zoom and we don't talk therapy anyway again um but i really like her she she rocks did it well now because that actually is something that was recommended for i can't well i somebody in my family that was recommended for them i mean i don't want to you know i can't even divulge my family that was recommended for them. I mean, I don't want to, you know, I can't even divulge my family stuff or, you know, like that's patient privilege.

But yeah, but it sounded interesting to me. It's like, kind of like, is it like a depression sort of alternative or anxiety or. It's for PTSD. It's like, it's making sure that your like coping mechanisms match with your life

now you know I think I have all these um I mean I know I have defenses up about shit that doesn't matter anymore you know um I think my I tend to dissociate I write about a lot but I tend to dissociate. I write about it a lot, but I tend to not feel when good or bad things happen to me. I'm just like, oh yeah, someone died. That's sad. I'll feel that in three years. Right, right. Someone got married. Hooray for them.

Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, it's trying to match up with your emotions uh and i don't know i think it's working i like cry at movies more and stuff yeah that's i it took me a long time because i had i've had depressive issues forever lucky me born with a bad brain uh love my brain trade it it's you know and what you know what sucks about it too is that like then having two kids they have kind of bad brains too you know yeah as much as i feel like i i learned from the mistakes of previous generations, not naming names, you know, in terms of like parenting and doing things. But they still like one of them's nervous and, you know, they're both kind of nervous.

And now, especially with like this fucking covid stuff, my daughter, who's 15. I feel like it's going to affect her for the rest of her life. Like she's going to be kind of just nervous. Like she tells me, you know, she says things like, I saw a picture of me and my friends at a party before COVID. And she goes, and it made me so nervous to see us all standing so close to each other. And holy shit, that breaks your heart. But I don't, what am I going to tell her?

Like, you know maga like don't worry about it it's all it's like no you need to be scared about this but it's i just if i'm just fear that it'll you know imprint on her and make her a scared person right i think with people for people who are prone to anxiety but it hadn't really come to the surface yet uh it's made people a lot more anxious in ways that they've never dealt with but I also think that people with crippling anxiety like a couple of my friends and definitely me in certain ways like when the pandemic started I was see, the world is horrible and we should be inside all the time. And I'm going to bake cookies on day one. On day two, I watched the SpongeBob movie. Like I was, I was ready for someone to tell me to stay inside because the world's a horrible place.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, that's it. One of my worst tendencies is to recede is to like, yeah, me too. You know? All right, fine. I'll just stay home. is to like yeah me too you know all right fine i'll just stay home that's fine with me you know and and uh and that's why there there were times it's i mean now it's just gotten to be ridiculous but there were definitely times when i felt like a guilty pleasure and like i don't have to go anywhere you know like oh yeah for sure fuck this i'm staying home i got my dog and me and that's it you know um and i also you know i'm having my kids here at least i had that so i think i had just enough and podcasts i pathetically enough fuck when i have to record a podcast it's like i got to talk to a person today yeah you know it's uh it's it can be sad yeah i know there

there are like a couple interviews that i did right in the beginning of covid where like they were totally done with their questions and i'd be like and i feel like i inherited that from my mother and uh you know that's just the way it goes sometimes. Yeah. You know, it's just like. Yeah. Are you familiar with the Byzantine era? Yes. You know, I love bird watching. I was starting to say, you're a SoCal kid, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And was your family from SoCal, or did they come here from somewhere else? Yeah, my dad is from Idaho, and my mom is from Northern California. And then they moved here to so that my dad could be closer to work because he built sets for movies. So, yeah. So grew up in Pasadena. OK. And where he was building sets and living somewhere else or? Yeah, I mean, I think the first like two years, I'm going to get this wrong and my mom's going to scream at me,

but I was born in Orange County, they had an apartment in Orange County. And then before I can remember, they moved to Pasadena. Okay. I guess the hospital there is called Hoag Hospital. And I told someone I was from Orange County that I was born there. And they were like, Hoag baby. I guess that's a thing. They call themselves Hoag babies, which I think would be a horrific band name.

Hoag baby. Yeah, that's not good. It doesn't strike like a good word in me and how fucking southern california is it to give a shit and prestige to what hospital you were born at yeah yeah my kid cedar sinai fuck you he was born into privilege yeah exactly yeah he was born into an amazing oncology department unlike those swine out there well what was that i mean pasadena's kind of i mean from my perspective a it's a beautiful old town it's like such a pretty old place and um but i don't you know i don't know what growing up there would be like is is it, is it like, is it like lots of rich kids? Is it, you know?

Yeah. It's kind of like pick your poison. Like there's good public schools. Um, and, but I went to a private, uh, granola middle school, um, and kindergarten and stuff where like, you don't have to wear shoes and you don't have grades and you're like, you're a sex ed teacher in fifth grade makes you do like a basically like a virtual reality meditation where you imagine what it would be like to be persecuted for your sexuality. So it's, it was really wild. And then I went to an arts high school called Loxa

and I know of it yeah yeah that was I tried to talk my daughter into going there but she's she's staying she's been in the same school k through 12 so she right want to go totally but I kind of I just love the idea of getting around people who were serious about being creative as soon as possible. Yeah, I think that's the most valuable thing. In comparison. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like I didn't go to college.

So I would have been jealous of my friends who went to college and met people who are really into the same thing. But I already had that like i yeah we call it tour bidding when you like tour uh and play festivals always at the same time as another band or like you play shows in the same city and it's like yeah it's kind of like going on a road trip where your friends are also on a road trip visiting the same places and it's so weird so you go to each other's shows and whatever but the amount of times that i do that with bands and i'm like oh my god the drummer was in my class or whatever like it's just cool oh there's a lot of kids from your school that are out in bands right now yeah just like out in the world or or visual artists um yeah my brother went there for visual art and those kids are my my brother.

I thought he was going to be kind of like an introverted nerd forever because he was super into science and loved like counting things. And but then I went to his 18th birthday and I guess I hadn't been keeping track of like his friends and it was just at a pool. been keeping track of like his friends and it was just at a pool and I went and walked in the backyard and there just, there were all these topless girls in the pool. Like, Hey, what's up? How's it going? Yeah. It's Jackson's birthday. Oh, are you a Jackson's sister? That's cool. Like he doesn't need me at all. He's so cool. It doesn't make any sense. How much younger is he than you? He turned 23 yesterday. So we're like three years apart, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, that does not happen often, I don't think, to teen boys. Yeah, but I think we have Loxa to thank for that. He found his people. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Very important step. Now, when you were a little kid were you um were you were you sort of who you are now you think or yeah i mean i know i was a brat i know i was a a heinous like you know um what's her name rhoda, uh, the bad seed child. Right. Like I would hit my little brother and then burst into tears because I didn't want to get in trouble.

Right. Um, and would make it about me and like scream. I was like the writhing on the floor kid when we passed something that I wanted and couldn't have in the store. Um, so I think, I think, you know,

some things have changed about me, but maybe my essence is the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this, I mean, was, well, do you, are you going on your own memories of this or is this just the, the line on you that your family has, has created? I, I don't have a great memory, so I don't remember a lot of it, and so I can't tell what's planted. What's stories that my mom told me that I replayed. I have so many memories I don't trust.

Totally. Something that was told to me so many times, and I think I just pictured it, and now I don't know whether it actually happened or I just fabricated it. But I do have one or two visceral memories. I have a two visceral memories like i have a very visceral memory of uh making balls of bread to shove into my brother's mouth uh like i don't

think i was trying to choke him but i think it was fun to rip out the inside of bread at a restaurant and roll it up and shove it into his mouth and i got in trouble and i threw a fit but i and i've heard that story but i remember shoving bread into my brother's mouth right right yeah it's just it's an aggressive kind of nurturing that's really what it is yeah it's a very yeah fuck you definitely similar i love you yeah yeah i love you so much you won't be able to breathe. So, and is it a happy house? I mean, were you happy to have your little brother along? I mean, I don't know if that's an unfair question. No, not at all.

I mean, it was my brother's birthday yesterday, so I saw my mom and brother, and she told us stories. So I actually have recent info about this, but I guess my grandma, like, read somewhere that it's healthy to, if there's an older sibling, to not mention the baby. Like, my grandma had not met my little brother yet when he was just born and home from the hospital. But she didn't want to make me jealous. So she came in the door and was like, hey, Phoebe, how's it going? And I talked to her for 45 minutes without bringing up my little brother

who was in the next room. And my grandma was really trying hard not to ask about it or whatever and i guess she was like or we heard jackson my brother cry and then uh she was like what's that my and i was like oh that's my brother she was like how's being a big sister and i said it's horrible i'm like and she and she was like nothing about it is good and i was like no nothing um but then we became very close yeah so yeah well that's good that's good you you got over the initial hump and you gotta you know you get it it's on him you're there first it's on him to win you over yeah rather than him when or you win him over he

was very passive as a kid which i think helped like he wasn't we i bullied the shit out of him but he was just kind of like okay yeah yeah weird bowling ball child yeah um well then uh are you is it are you is it a musical house i mean are you guys are your folks musical at all i mean there's obviously some artistic stuff going on yeah my my parents love music but not like nobody did it professionally or whatever. But as soon as I kind of started playing guitar, it was like every time there was a family party, it was like... They used to have a St. Patrick's Day party, and they would make me sing Danny Boy every year. Oh, God.

Yeah, very traumatizing to me. Yeah. Yeah, that song, too, is just... She's just why. Just maudlin. Just, ugh. Exhausting. Parents, don't do that to your children.

All of you listening, never make your child sing Danny Boy. No. And what age did you start playing guitar? I feel like I say a different age in every interview, but I don't care. I don't really care what the answer is. I only really started

to take it seriously when I was like 13. I started playing for pleasure and not just playing the same three chords or whatever. Yeah, definitely learned a lot of Neil Young guitar solos because they have Like started like playing for pleasure and not just playing the same, like three chords or whatever. Yeah. Definitely learned a lot of like Neil Young guitar solos. Cause they have like two notes in them.

Yeah. Yeah. And is it, are you, could you pick it up right away or did you have to kind of work at it? Like, are you one of those people? Yeah,

definitely had to work at it, but it's, it was the first time I think I realized like, Oh, if you work at it like are you one of those people yeah definitely had to work at it but it's it was the first time i think i realized like oh if you work at it you're better tomorrow yeah um and i definitely i had like a 1.5 gpa when i graduated high school like i it was nothing else in my life proved that point to me um except for music where i was like oh if i practice then it's like good yeah yeah and it's something that you cared about obviously yeah yeah yeah totally and were you were you writing songs at that point are you thinking like okay this is what i'm gonna do as soon as you sort of start learning those neil young chords or yeah i think my mom um that she would say about other kids but definitely is true of her

like she made me feel like the sun shone out of my asshole yeah um and so i think before i was good she was like you're gonna be the next bob dylan you know um and i think i bought it and so and i'd attribute that to deciding to be a musician for sure really just her her enthusiasm yeah just my overconfidence from a very young age i was never told like hey can you please not sing in this grocery store very loudly like i think i had a fantasy that someone was going to like scout me, you know? Like, I used to go to concerts and be like, they are going to see from the stage that I can sing and they're going to ask me to, you know?

Right, right. So I just had this like floating through life. I mean, I blame Disney Channel. That happens all the time on Disney Channel. High school musical fucking filled my head up with lies. But I think it propelled me into sticking with it, which is good. Now, did you ever, as a young Southern California kid with, you know, access to show business, did you ever think to go that Disney Channel kind of route?

I think my mom submitted me for like a contest once that was like a Disney Channel singing competition that was outside of Ikea when I was like 11. And there was a stage, and I was going to sing Breakaway by Kelly Clarkson. And I think it got like rained out. I can't remember what happened, or maybe my mom just saved me from the concept that I lost. But I remember that pretty well,

that I was going to sing that. Yeah. But there was no trying to get you into Disney Channel shows or anything like that because that happens out you know I mean like it's yeah you know like you know my daughter at one point she had friends that were working or at least kids that she knew in school and were working and she said that she was kind of interested and i always was like no i was like if you want a job you can wait till you're 16 and you can get a job at

in and out or something like you i don't want them i just didn't want them working in show business it's such a scary um it's it's just too exploitive at its base at its root it's exploitative and you gotta even as an adult going into it it's a fucking rough ride I feel like I

didn't I didn't know how exploitative it was until like a year ago maybe and I just have memories even just about being like 18 19 trying to get signed and make a record like the amount of situations that I was in where I was like what like yeah I wish I could go punch people in the fucking face yeah like I I the way that people talk to me the way that people try to kind of like trick you into bullshit it's insane yeah yeah yeah no she asked there was finally one time when she asked me like flat out about it and i i said she said like why specifically why? Specifically, why? And I said, because you're going to be around people that say they love you and that they're your friend, but they really just they're making money with you.

They're there to make money. That's why everyone's there. And I said, and you're also going to be surrounded by adults who are judging your face, your body, your voice, your prettiness, the way you move, the way you – like you're just – I would be submitting you to a bunch of strange adults who do this with kids all the time so that you could be judged by them. And I just was like, I don't think that's healthy. No. No, it's not.

I don't think that's healthy. No. No, it's fucked. I mean, also, like, nepotism and stuff is sometimes the only reason that anybody's ever safe. It's like, oh, don't fuck with her. You know who her dad is or whatever. Right. And, like, I... Yeah, just insane.

When I was, like, 19, someone tried to scout me for like a movie that's gonna be like a music-y movie um and i was like sitting in a room full of like these producers and it was me and this other woman were uh or like basically child that was also gonna be in the movie yeah and they were and they were kind of talking to us about it and we're like gonna be in the movie yeah and they were and they were kind of talking to us about it and we're like and this one guy was like the cool thing about you is that you're like accessible lehot like i feel like i could sleep with you is the way you look you know you're not like too model-y and we didn't want that we want like excessively attractive i was just like luckily i was old enough at the time where I was I was like oh my god I

really wanted a way out of the movie anyway so I got I got in the car and was like mom guess what this fucking guy said to me and she thought it was hilarious like are you fucking kidding me that's amazing and then I when I hung up I was in my car and I was like i could have been either five years younger or a different person who would like go home and fucking kill myself you know like yeah yeah like i i am lucky that i thought it was funny and that my friend and i were like so trying hard not to do the movie we thought it sounded horrible um but yeah just like i was like how careless like he didn't know who i was he he fucking could have said that to somebody who it could have totally like destroyed their life yeah yeah well and that's they get so comfortable talking like that that it just

and it's not everywhere it's you know it's it's different like i hear from friends that work in different comedy places that like certain writers rooms are like the writers room with a like with with like a gay person there whether they're a support person or one of the writers and then just like ridiculously homophobic typical guy asshole stuff being said all the time with no because they're just like they just get used to this what you know what locker room talk or whatever the fuck but that's just it's astounding um i see i i kind of the ethos for one of my bands called boy genius was like a boy genius is exactly that like we're jealous not jealous of being an idiot in a room who's loud but just having a little like i

feel like i second guess myself even still like if i say something totally normal or like i have eight apologies in an email for some reason or before i play a song for someone i'm like this is stupid and this part is going to change or whatever and i'm like why do some guys walk into the room and they're like i am correct yeah and my idea is good yeah regardless of the bad shit i just wish that i had any sort of connection to that part of because because people let it go for so long like and not with abuse and stuff but like i guarantee you people would have taken me seriously earlier if i'd been like even if they were scared of me or whatever if i had just been like that idea is bad or like

you're a fucking idiot guy who said that to me like i just wish i had a little bit more of that um earlier right right yeah no that guy definitely someone needs to say something to that guy in fact after we're done here i'm gonna get his name i will write him a sternly worded email that will turn him around yeah that'd be great i actually should just like i don't he was so boring i don't even remember what his name is but i should just like i would love to just kind of carelessly throw it out one day ruin his ruin his tuesday yeah well that and that thing too of that sort of like just natural sort of the only that can be a really helpful thing and that's like the one like i envy that in people and i like the other thing that i envy in people is the people that

just have to create because like i'm okay with like making dinner you know like that takes up my creative energies and i'm like all right i'm set for a while. But that thing of that cocky confidence, I will say that from my perspective of being on a talk show for a million years, it was always kind of fun back when we, you know, before everything changed, like, because the show's a half an hour now and it's essentially,

it's really kind of a different show now. But when they'd be like the second or third guest that would be the you know the fourth star on some new wb show that was just booked uh who knows why and it was always great when this person would come it was always men would come out and nobody you know it's like here he is you know john herschheiser and john herschheiser would come out with this attitude like the stop and pause and soak it in then stroll over stop and pause and soak it in again and you could just feel that he couldn't feel this collective like who the fuck are you man sit down like just go over and sit down and that was like the only instance too where i could feel like oh that's a place where you gotta you have to earn that like you have to do

have to kind of earn and that's why i think you know like that kind of presence and that kind of calm usually comes with time. You're right. The people that have it right off the bat, I don't know. I hope they get their comeuppance if they don't have it to back it up. I also forget that actors are just theater nerds, successful theater nerds. Like I forget that. I'm just like, and i find sincerity you know maybe childhood

drama whatever but like i find sincerity very hard to handle like when people are like oh my god you're doing so well like so proud of you like this is great live laugh love whatever um even in a not corny way when my very close friends are like can we just take a very genuine minute to appreciate everything i'm like get the fuck away from me um yeah but i'm yeah i i am never not surprised when an actor opens their mouth and is like and i'm like you're so hot, like on screen and stuff like people's personalities are amazing to me. It's also the other the other one of those that I have encountered often is musicians are band nerds. Oh, you know, like, you know, like and so you'll meet like a cool rock star and then realize like, oh, no, you're just like.

You're Chad, the guy that, you know, played timpani in high school. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I lost my virginity to a timpani player, actually. Oh. Loxa. Wow. Go at it. Loxa.

He's so safe. A great introduction to my sex life was like, yeah, in the the orchestra you'd like put on little gloves and like ring a little bell and then go over and hit the timpani it was yeah yeah it was amazing to watch like the nerdiest the nerdiest place so good yeah it's like a fancy waiter with doing a table side you know flambe you know yeah yeah yeah and it only like sometimes in some pieces it only it comes every whatever like 10 minutes so he's like ramping up for like the big triangle moment so fun yeah yeah like not even like a drummer like a percussionist yeah um he's a sick drummer though yeah Yeah. He's a sick drummer, though. Yeah.

Can't you tell my love's a-growing? Now, when you get to that high school, I mean, is it easy to fit in there? I imagine there's a lot of misfits. I mean, is it easy to fit there's a lot of misfits. I mean, it's, I imagine it's kind of like, you know, I mean, is it easy to fit in as like a collection of misfits or is there still kind of, like, it's just hard to picture like the cool kids, like the jock and the cheerleader at an artsy school. Yeah, they weren't jocks and cheerleaders. They were American apparel models slash visual artists. I see. Or, I mean mean the ultimate cool kid was someone who

dropped out to go be famous um like zoe deutch did that i was so jealous yeah we were like in the same year and then she dropped out and became a huge movie star and i was like god damn it but so yeah a lot of the popular kids just stopped going to school. But there were some, you know, I think the visual art kids were always the coolest. Like, even if you were handsome or gorgeous as a theater kid, you kind of had to, like, you know, we've all seen you put on blacks and do a tableau or a movement class and that's humiliating yeah like you can't be cool in high school no matter how good looking you are and uh and do a tableau um what is i don't even know what that is you know me neither really i think it's just and i think from what i gather it's like a uh an excuse to do a play with like no setup whatsoever like like i i feel like i've seen a lot of them they're basically almost like slam poetry and stuff

yeah um i'm gonna get in trouble for for uh i'm gonna get schooled on what a tableau is but all i know is like lots of stomps and clapping and like and scene um so yeah usually usually visual art kids were pretty cool band nerds were band nerds and you know dorks yeah um dancers were like nobody nobody even they were like kind of it's like twilight like they're like the vampires in twilight yeah where you're just like oh nobody talks to those kids so they're kind of separate from they're so gorgeous and yeah work so hard that nobody ever sees them right and generally yeah they're not real bright there was one there was one uh very amazing dancer who sat next to me in science class who uh i had not done my homework and so i was copying her homework so i mean she's next to me in science class who I had not done my homework

and so I was copying her homework. So, I mean, she's smarter than me in many ways. But she wrote the word what was it? It was slow-ins. She was like, the ball slow-ins when it reaches

terminal velocity. And I was like the ball slowens when it reaches terminal velocity and that's who you're copying off of yeah that was who i was copying that's where i was in high school yeah oh slow in the car oh there was another dancer who said uh we were supposed to do like papers on royalty and uh we like just at the end of class our history teacher was going around asking who we were all doing our papers about and this girl was like i'm going to do my paper on the duke of ellington Yeah. Legendary. That's fantastic. Yeah. The Duke of Ellington. Yeah.

Now, what's your place in school? Are you known as, you know, what was your rep? I, very gay, very gay looking. Yeah. It was really hard i feel like the boys that i dated in high school um like the girls in high school just kind of gravitated towards me like if someone if someone was like feeling adventurous they'd be like i hooked up with phoebe this weekend um but oh god damn it uh people keep calling me I'm so popular still to this day. But it stopped my recording for a second. Anyway, yeah, I, like, I, when I had a crush on a boy, I would, it would be, like, four months of hanging out every day.

And then them being like, oh, my god, you have a crush on me? Like, are you straight? So, yeah, like, I like i literally had like a shaved head um and uh i i was the cop from reno 911 for halloween one year in the little booty shorts that was yeah legendary i actually made out with a a current day instagram model that night. Um, yeah, but I feel like I was a little, I have no, I, I,

I'm, I was so embarrassing. Like, I don't know, um, if I was, yeah, I was really embarrassing.

And my best friend, Haley, uh, who's rad, she's in a band called sloppy Jane. And I was, I played bass in her band and, um,

she shaved her eyebrows off and drew them on every day and wore like platform goth shoes she's like a cyber goth um and that's my best friend who i walked around with all the time so so i have no idea like what people thought of me but i'm sure it's humiliating yeah what i mean why do you think why did you shave your head i mean were you was it just pure kind of creative randomness, or was there something you were going for? I had bleached it and dyed it so many different colors that it was just, like, dead, I think.

Like, it was hot pink for a while. And then, yeah, I just thought it would be cool. And then my girlfriend had a shaver, and she did it in the bathroom like while we were ditching class uh she like did like little like leopard print designs into my head too yeah pretty interesting yeah yeah yeah there was a lady at the farmer's market for years and years who always had a leopard a leopard shaved i've seen her it was like died and a great dane yes yeah yeah you know her i used to busk at that farmer's market

the hollywood farmer's market oh yeah so i did the um i didn't have a job in high school but i would go every weekend to the pasadena one and the hollywood one oh really um because they were on different days. Is that right? Or did I just pick? I can't remember. But Hollywood, worst tips. Pasadena, way better tips.

Yeah. But I liked the Hollywood one more. It was more fun. It's a museum of weirdos. Yeah, that's why I love it. Totally. I probably saw you play there then it's you know sorry it didn't make an indelible impression maybe you should have rocked harder yeah i

should have gotten scouted dude yeah no because i used i mean i i i live in burbank now but i used to go there uh every sunday morning either with my kids i mean like the people there saw my kids grow up like when my yeah kids come with me now they're like what the fuck how'd that kid get that big um do you start writing songs in in high school and you start sharing them yeah we i played shows all the time with my bands. I made a couple different bands. One was called Einstein's Dirty Secret. I'm going to sneeze.

Yeah, one was Einstein's Dirty Secret. One was Phoebe and the Three Men. Oh, thank you. I don't believe that demons are going to get in your nose, but it just feels rude to not say something. I don't think so either, but it's a cool concept. Yeah, it's just, yeah. It's the one moment when your body lets its guard down. Right, isn't it because like your heart stops and they used to think the, that's what my grandpa told me, is that your heart stops for a second so the devil can get in your soul, which I love.

Right. I love that energy. Anyway, yeah, I played shows. It seems kind of easy, like for the devil to get in your soul. That seems easy. Totally. I feel like, yeah, the devil can do it either way. I don't think he was really waiting for you to sneeze.

Yeah. But, yeah, so I played shows think he was really waiting for you to sneeze yeah but but yeah so i played shows i would like pay to play shows and then like hustle tickets at school um like you pay whatever it is like i mean stressful like maybe like 500 bucks and then you have to sell 500 bucks of tickets or whatever. To get into a show? Wow. So if you play like the Troubadour, not to get the Troubadour in trouble, but I know they used to do this. Same with Whiskey El Rey. We did it once at the El Rey where you buy the tickets. You buy all the tickets and then it's your job to sell the tickets. So you're your own promoter. Are you headlining or you have the whole night or?

Well, there were a couple because it was because it was a art school. There were a couple different bands. There's this really cool band called Hazel that was like my friend Angelica Garcia. There's a band called Kitten, which was led by Chloe Chidas, who wasn't in our same high school but everybody in Kitten was in my band and went to Loxah so it would be like one night of teenagers

in bands it was pretty fun but like the opposite of a house show because you're like in West Hollywood and you're all dressed up and whatever but then I did play quite a few house shows as well especially with sloppy jane sloppy jane was my band with my best friend where she wrote all the songs i just played bass but we'd literally go play in like riverside at like a party and then there was like a trash can

fire and like the police yeah that was really. That does sound fun. Now, but these songs, you know, I think about, like, as being as revealing as you are in your songs. And, I mean, in those days, were you that revealing? And when you're that young and that, you know, so fragile, I mean, kids are fragile anyway. But then to be sort of spilling your guts on stage for strangers, that seems like crazy brave. I have a, I've been thinking about this a lot because for some reason, the reason I say I was embarrassing as a little, as a teenager is because I think I thought that like, I wasn't interesting without like trauma stories.

Yeah. I was like, you know, well, my dad did this or whatever. Um, but it was always the weirdest stuff. Like,

I think that I did have a traumatic childhood, but I would like make up weird shit or like, or yeah, I don't know. I wanted to be basically like a Manic Pixie Dream Girl style. Like, I think I put on kind of a fake personality. And so my music early on, it sounded like music I listened to but like I had I was totally straight edge and I had kind of a song about drugs although I mean tons of my friends did them and it was hard to watch but like I don't I don't think I learned how what I like about my writing now is that is that it's kind of direct and the best stuff to me is when I'm like can I say that like is that it's kind of direct and the best stuff to me is when I'm like, can I say that? Is that music or is that cheating

or is this going to piss somebody off? Those end up being kind of my favorite lyrics. But I definitely didn't know how to do that. I almost talked in a different voice. Almost like old English-y or something. What's a sample of that? There's a song on my first record that's about Sid and Nancy where I say like for to mean like

you know because and weird stuff like that that I don't do and now I really try to kind of keep it exactly my the way that I talk yeah like you know sat vocab words and right flexing all sorts of weird stuff and um and i think once i like stripped all that back it

became easier to write songs too it was so hard to write songs then and i almost never did it because i was it stressed me out like i having songs, but I didn't like writing songs. And then once I kind of cut the bullshit, I think it became easier. Yeah. They always say, you know, like they talk about Springsteen's early songs. And I'm not like a big Springsteen guy or anything, but, I mean, you know, he's kind of a big presence and stuff. And they talk about when he said in interviews that when he was writing songs he was just trying to do what bob dylan did yeah like all that madman's drummers bummers indians

and that was just nervousness he just said he would just try and cram as many you know little early burly came by in his curly whirly like you man cut it out and but you know dude think about that though like actually like internalize that like sure that's poetry sure you know nice curly whirly dude dude you just yeah living life in your fucking curly whirly but yeah but i think that that yeah you're nervous you're trying to and it just you but I think that that, yeah, you're nervous. You're trying to, and it just, you know, I think that so much of,

well, I mean, it's amazing to be that, that creative on that level, that young, like that's when I, when I think about, like when I think about like,

like you, I picture you as like a 19 year old going into the music business and i think the dad in me is like oh no and you're gonna share your feelings you know it just it just is you know and as a damaged person i'm like oh what are you doing why are you writing chum on yourself and going into that shark pool you know totally and and i mean why why do you think you do that what do you i mean i don't think i knew it was a shark pool yeah you know i think i was uh i don't know i i want to give myself some credit though because i think my protective mechanisms that I did have saved me from a lot of shit. Like, I mean, I had a really bad experience early, like right after I turned 20, where I met Ryan Adams.

And he, God, people keep calling me. I'm so fucking popular. I can't handle it. but i don't want to turn airline mode yeah but then it'll disconnect to this microphone that i have that connects to the maybe if i turn off my data no because it's wi-fi all right it's we're we're still going it'll be fine um that doesn't really matter it's just a podcast yeah um it doesn't matter so yeah so i met ryan adams and i i really loved ryan's music and so like i want to say like i walked right into the shark tank but also like he tried to co-write on some song like i showed him some songs and he wrote very like he

didn't write stuff that I liked. And I was just like, oh, like, I'm going to go home and change it, which I did. Like, I think even at the time, people I looked up to, their influence, if I, yeah, like, I rejected things that I didn't like, no matter who gave it to me. Yeah. You know, like, I was like, the thing I wrote was, the thing I wrote was better than the thing that the famous guy tried to get me to say. And this. So, yeah. So as much as as much as I walked right into the shark tank, I also think that something was like, man, can't wait to get out of here and and create my own safe tank. Which I did, I think. safe tank which i did i think yeah you did i mean i mean you know kind of sort of uh because so and so much of your music too is and i mean and i just i don't i haven't i haven't known your

music for a long time i just kind of i mean i'd heard your name but but I, first of all, I'm fucking old. So I am not like in the swim. I haven't been around for that. I haven't been around for that long. I know, but still, but you've been around long, but like there's new bands and shit that I hear about that. I'm like, I don't have any, like, just, that's like, I might as well treat that as like Italian hockey. Like, I don't, I'm never going to know about that.

And I just go be that over there. But also too, like your music for me, like, you know, I don't mean not to put you in there, but like the thing of emo, you know, that kind of emotional sort of darker music is fucking hard for me to listen to. Like if it's bad, it's boring, you know, to me to like if it's if it if it's bad it's boring you know to me like emo kind of music and it's that same thing like you said like earnestness just as it makes my

skin crawl totally a david and amy sudaris who i worked with they used all of them they used to call they had a word for like when things were like emotional to the point of like making them uncomfortable. They would say it was queer, but they would say it's quire. They'd always say like, that's quire. And that's like stuck with me. There's so many things that like when people are saying nice things, I'm just like, that's quire. Oh, I hate it. Yeah, I'm using that now.

But it's, as much as I'm kind of a cynic about it, but it's like good stuff that like really, like your stuff is good and really, not that you need my, you know, whatever. But like, it's hard to listen to your music sometimes because it fucking hurts. to your music sometime because it fucking hurts. And I can't imagine what it's like to like pack up your shit in one town and then go to the next town. And then like, you know, Hey everybody, get ready for my catalog of,

of personal bad memories, you know, set to tunes. It's pretty masochistic. Yeah. It's totally masochistic yeah it's totally masochistic i yeah i um like when i show i kind of get off on showing people things that i know is gonna bother them you know like my mom or whatever when i'm like you my mom's pretty easy to make emotional love you mom she rocks but yeah like if I if I need somebody to like

tell me that I'm great and cry to everything that I show them it's my mom but yeah there have been a couple times in the studio even with Tony Berg my producer and real father I where he'll just like i can tell he's like fucking what is this

torture music yeah yeah and i like i like that and i and i i take forever to write i am like extremely deliberate you know like i i'll write a second of something and then if it feels like i'm kind of pushing it too hard i'll i'll leave it alone for like three months and work on something else until something's obvious to me um so i'm already over it by the time i'm showing it to people let alone playing on tour um so when people get fucked up and shows as in feel upset or cry loudly i'm like yes i feel nothing and you feel pain it's great that is kind of interesting because yeah it is it's like a transference it's like you know yeah like you've poisoned me, here. I used to feel way worse on opening slots. Like, I did a whole Violent Femmes tour,

and they were all so sweet, but God, their fans did not want to hear my fucking bullshit. They were just like, who the fuck is this? Like, if it's someone's first time hearing something, hate that. But people who come to my shows now, I'm like, oh, you paid for this yeah you know yeah they know it's like a dominatrix yeah yeah um is you is writing a process for you that

you have to do or do you make yourself do it like do you feel like oh shit i'm getting low on songs i gotta write something or is it like do you have writing sessions like every like where you set out like today i'm gonna write because i don't write anything that's i'm i'm projecting my own sort of like i always have to be like no you have to write something write something right now yeah me too i'm like that um yeah there's a i think it was jen kirkman who tweeted one time like uh I know I'm trying to write when I clean a drawer or something like yeah yeah I like organize all my shit when I'm when I'm supposed to be writing um but I think I used to think like oh just wait it out wait till it comes naturally like it really doesn't come naturally for me the best thing that I write is when I've

pushed it a little too far and feel like I'm not getting anything. And I'm like, oh shit, actually, I've been trying to get something for that line for like four months and I just did it because I sat down. But it's hard to get myself to sit down. Actually, I have like avoidance behavior around it. think though too there might be something too even though it seems like you were waiting for the the magical moment but you really sat down that could be the same thing you know like that that when you chose to sat down might be because you were ready to to shit out that idea you know. It really does feel like shitting. Yes.

Yeah, it's great. Yeah, yeah. I love shitting. My grandma used to always be, like, if anybody was grumpy, she'd be like, did you poop today? I'm like, that's like a great. Your mom would say that? My grandmother. Oh, your grandmother.

And it's true. Like, if you're like, oh, yeah, I haven't. That's why I'm upset. It is the thing, too, that like I just am amazed like how much of everyone's life is spent shitting or like or like dealing with shitting like, oh, yeah, like I had a bad shit today or, you know, or or just, you know, the aftermath, you know, of what one can have from shitting. And just, it's in like, all of us are walking around at some point in most, in a good portion of our days with being affected by the shitting and no, it's not anything any, you know.

Do you ever go into a hotel room like a fancy hotel room and for some reason the fucking door is like kind of foggy glass like to the toilet yeah yeah where you're like okay either i'm here with like my mom on a girl's weekend or with someone i'm sleeping with or even a you know like a marriage what scenario what relationship do you have to a person where you want the the door to where you're shitting to be clear right like it doesn't make sense in any, anything except for completely alone and even then pretty unsettling. Right, right. Yeah, no, it's never, it's never, well, I wouldn't say never. It's occasionally.

It's a pretty specific thing. Occasionally, it's kind of like, that was fantastic. That was transformative. But most of the time, you know yeah no you're right you should have to make that request you should be like hey can we get the room with the clear yeah door can i get the show biz room with the you know with the uh you know for putting on shows for people yeah exactly yeah and when you start really was was touring the first time that you really started to travel the only time yeah i didn't travel much as a kid at

all uh the first time i left the country was for music um so yeah and how was that was it scary was it exciting was it all those things yeah it's awesome it scary? Was it exciting? Was it all those things? Yeah. It's awesome. It was just like, it felt like real adulthood. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I can just do, I can just go places. That's insane. Like you can just drive for whatever bunch of hours and be in Oregon.

Yeah. If you want. Like it just, I think I felt stuck for a long time. Yeah. It also too, it's like when you start to get, when you start to have money, when you start to feel like, like, I remember, I don't think it was my first time. Well, it was my first time in Europe. I had been to Canada, my first time in Europe, I had been to Canada, you know, but my first time in Europe was shortly after my wife and I were married. And we went to visit her sister who was, who spoke French. And like, that's what she ended up doing for a living. She's a lawyer now, but for a while she used her,

she had a, was a French major and she was an au pair and was studying in France. And we went to visit her. And when we landed at De Gaulle, Charles De Gaulle Airport, I had this. I remember we were taxiing and we're looking out over like the field. And first of all, there were a million rabbits, like just like so just that you could see out the plane window. And I just which doesn't matter but i remember but i had like a panic attack like that i was landing in a foreign country where i didn't know the language and what was you know and with this real panic like what the fuck what if i get separated you know from from the ladies and i'm on my own and what what do I do? Surrounded by rabbits. Yeah. Surrounded by rabbits.

Le Pan. And, uh, and then I, and I had this moment of like, and because it was a relatively new thing for me too. You have a credit card. Yeah. You can just go to the airport and buy a ticket and fly home. Like, that's like, yeah, you don't have to feel like there's just no chance of anything, you know, like that you'll be

stranded you know yeah yeah i i isn't that fucked up like yeah when i got my when i got a car that wasn't every that breaking down every two seconds and was 1500 bucks to fix every time it broke down and when i got an apartment i was like do i even have depression you know i was like yeah yeah i was like man i can just leave and go places um which is so fucked yeah uh i want a six dollar coffee you can have one if you want it yeah um yeah i so like touring in Europe is actually a big point of contention with musicians. Like they, everybody hates it.

It's like, it's like UK too. It's like food fucking sucks. Yeah. Lots of vegans pissed. You're eating like sausage rolls every day. And especially if you're like, nobody's coming to your shows or it's depressing or

like language barrier you can just get kind of depressed or it's like winter and it's dark all the time but when i went for the first time i was touring with connor oberst who'd been you know 26 times and yeah and it was my very first time and my mom made me a scrapbook of things to do in each city and i would like wake up every day on the bus uh you know and like you can't you can't shit on the bus by the way yes i oh i know i know yeah i did a short tour with conan and i i dumped out my drink that had a slight lemon peel in it right i was drinking vodka with just like a slight lemon peel in it. Right. I was drinking vodka with just like a slight lemon peel. And I had it. It was empty.

And I just tossed the lemon peel into the toilet and flushed it. And three hours later, we were awakened by the bus being pulled over and shit water just pouring out of the luggage. Except there's no shit in it. So it's just pee water at that point. With a little bit of lemon to freshen it up but the you know the guy gets the guy the truck driver gets or the bus driver gets out and he's like they're fixing it and and of course conan's awake because he's just so wired on just all of it

and but the guy actually comes up and holds up the lemon peel. No. I was like, oh, that was me. Sorry. But yes, I know. What's the point of having the fucking bus in there if you can't shit in it? And if you have to shit, if it's like an emergency, you put a bag over the toilet and have to throw it away somewhere. I've never had to do that, thank God. But it's called hot bagging it. Nice.

Hot bagging it. But anyway, I feel like people have this idea of music and comedy and everything that's like, you reach a level and then you're just a famous person walking into golden lovely lobbies every day

and whatever. And I'm like, no, if you have to take a shit on your tour bus, you have to shit into a bag. And you drive in Germany for 15 hours and you stop at a place that the only thing you can eat is peanuts. Like, it's, it's, there are things about it that are amazing, but the travel part, I feel like, is what you get paid for. But anyway, my first tour, tour i was like none of that even

phased me i was literally like when opening for connor i was like this is the life and i was like going sightseeing and stuff and i'd bring connor with me and he was like actually this is it's really fun to be like i've never thought about tour like, I've never thought about tour like this. I've never thought about tour because I think he'd been doing it, you know, since he was like 15 years old. Yeah. So I didn't think about it as like a special like adventure. And I was like 22 and was like, this is the first day of the rest of my life. And yeah, let's go to the ABBA museum. Fuck yes.

Let's go to the ABBA museum and fuck yes let's go to the ABBA museum yeah yes well and also your mom made you that because it is like that's one thing I did learn about planning and that was from my very type a uh at least in this area uh ex-wife she everywhere we went I never had to make any plans uh you know it was always just like you know which is actually uh uh evidence of like one of my one of my little neuroses that i need to work on like you know like like why don't you why don't you decide what we do said the talk show sidekick um you know it's like but but she and she and the thing is too is that she would she was so good at it like she fucking picked aces restaurants and amazing interesting old churches and shit like that and so i never and then she'd occasionally get mad and be like why don't you decide something and i'd be like how about this

place that place is dumb how about this place? That place is dumb. What about this place? Yeah. Those people are assholes over there. Well, then what do you want to do this? Okay, well, let's just do what you want. That's what you wanted.

And, you know, like, I'm fine with you picking. It's okay. Me every day with restaurants. Really? Every single, every single restaurant decision is like, I don't care care where we go and then it's like how about this like ew um yeah me every day oh i hate you i hate you i can't i have to i have that with with like my kids sometimes it's like it's just one fucking meal kids it's just it's just fuel just no come on my my worst trait is probably passive aggression though like it's like uh let's go to this place and i'm like okay oh do you not want to go there no that's fine

it's totally fine that's great i'm an adult it's just one meal how's your primavera oh it's fine uh darren my manager knows that one time we got sugarfish and he forgot my uh lobster roll and now he calls it the uh you know the like the lob the sugarfish incident of 2020. So, yeah, I one time I was in a coffee shop in New York City. And it was like down it was like below Soho. So it was like downtown. And I don't even remember what i was doing in that neighborhood but i saw and i just knew him from doing shit and show business and talk show stuff and and interview shit i saw uh

salt and pepper's manager which i think was one of their dads maybe and he was getting he was getting a carryout order and i mean it was like omelets and shit it was like and uh and he was getting he was getting a carryout order and i mean it was like omelets and shit it was like and uh and he was being like you gotta have he's like what you know do i have this checking everything really thorough and i said oh hey to him like that and as he was doing it you know i saw him and i was like hey i'm from the cone it's like oh yeah hi how are you and we because we talked and he's like this is for the girls and if i don't get it right he's like, this is for the girls. And if I don't get it right, he's like, my whole fucking day is ruined. So he was just like, you know, and I can't, he's like, the worst one is, and I don't remember who, whether it was salt and pepper or salt, pepper or Spinderella,

but it was one of them. He was like a particularly like, oh my God, everything has to be perfect. He goes, and it usually isn't anyway. So you just got to live with it. Well, living in la sucks for my personality type too because yeah there's like the endless game of going to a brunch restaurant that's famous for one thing and you get there and they're like oh we're out of the thing that people come here for and you're like okay yes maybe I'm being a brat. But also, if you were out of it last weekend, maybe get more of it the next weekend.

Like, people come here for it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's me. I'm May I speak to the manager, Phoebe. It's not diamonds. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, now, you had your latest album did it drop i'd love to say drop because it's really cool to say drop for indie rock or sad emo yeah it drops did it did it a light upon the earth did it settle down from the heavens pre-COVID? No, during, during. Oh, yeah. See, that's what I was going to say. And what has that been like?

Has it been nice that you've been kind of trapped or has it been, because I could see it going either way. It hasn't been nice to be trapped. I mean, there are things that are nice about it, but it does feel good to be focused on something. Like, I'm glad I already did something that I can talk about. Cause if I was like halfway through and we'd had to stop, which I,

which happened to a lot of my friends, um, I'd be in hell. Yeah. But instead I feel some kind of productive. It's like, yeah. Also I did a European press tour without having to leave my house,

which is great. You know, that's what I mean. The worst. Yeah. productive it's like yeah also i did a european press tour without having to leave my house which is great you know that's what i mean the worst yeah that's what i mean because like the the acting side you know the acting it's a the junk it's like the press junk yeah so it's like a similar thing like if you had a movie or a show coming up i wouldn't have minded having a movie although you know and then have to be in covid for that, because that's the worst part. Like once it's all done, the making of it is the fun part. And then all the stuff that you don't realize you're going to have. Like nobody goes into wanting to be a musician and goes like, man, I can't wait to talk to the press.

Or the same thing. It's like you notice every actor that gets big just stops they just don't do it anymore yeah because it's gross and stupid and yeah repetitive you know um but what what have you i mean so it's been okay to be doing press for the album yeah it's been all right i guess you get you know mildly insulted in the comfort of my own home uh but but that being said i also have like randomly great conversations with people every once in a while like i definitely am not uh anti-press and that is nice um like i haven't burned been burned from it yet and i had because i do it so much like we were talking about earlier

kind of like the fuck you attitude or like i think i'm getting better at my thoughts catching up with my mouth sometimes when i do get a weird question or something like i love fucking with people now yeah yeah you know when i get the inevitable like basically like why do women choose to make music and what do you think about other women that are making it uh like i love answering those questions now it's so fun for me to like scare people yeah but then but then yeah like there's uh i feel like people are getting you know maybe it's just because i have more fans now than in the beginning but this record it seems like people do send for their magazine they'll send the person at the magazine who likes me instead oh that's good yeah a guy yeah totally

uh so it's it's fun to talk to those people yeah i have a label now like a and i was yeah i was gonna ask about that how's how's that being a mogul it's great i love, but I forgot that I'm just signing up for being involved in those conversations every day. Yeah. Like the shit for other people too. Yeah. Which I'm like such a narcissist. I'm like,

I'll do my, I'll, you know, I, I feel like we actually really care about my bios and stuff. Like our, uh, what was it like for better oblivion?

We did something super weird where it was like, I, it was like a conversation with a fake journalist and connor and i were being really mean to the journalist and each other um and just sent that out as like our bio um and like my bio on this one that we sent just to press was like my favorite author. Um, so, so like I have fun with kind of like the shitty side of it. Uh, but then I forgot like just how much I was going to have to think about that shit. And people throw out shit like EPK and,

and fucking DSPs and stuff to me all day. And I'm like, what? I just, I just logged into Slack. I think I tried to make a Slack channel and I accidentally made like five accounts for myself.

I'm learning how to be a corny guy who hangs out at Soho House on the laptop all day. Oh really? I don't even know what the fuck that is. I hear about it but I don't know what it is. You don't have to tell me. I'm going to investigate. I don't even know what the fuck that is. I hear about it, but I don't know what it is.

You don't have to tell me. I'm going to investigate. I don't know yet. Yeah, yeah. I'm torn by that, too, because every time that I think I'm not doing enough, and especially now during COVID, I'm supposed to be storing up all these fucking awesome ideas that when we get out of the house, I'm going to just take Hollywood by storm. Right.

Of course, I'm not doing a fucking thing but uh but i just uh i i realize any sort of success always comes with the meetings you know and it sounds really like a babyish kind of thing you know that's true yeah but it just it does it the, one of my favorite tweets the other day was every day there are emails. Yeah. That's how I feel. Yeah. Every fucking day. Yeah. There's emails. I always, I, it's like the eat your vegetables of, of your life. It's like, Oh, you like the good Well, you also have to do this. This is part of it. Like, I don't have any. The only thing I believe in is like yin and yang. Like, every time you get a good thing, something gets taken away or you also get a bad thing. Like, there's just the nature of it.

A natural strive towards balance to just keep us all humble, I guess. So, what drove, I guess. So what drove, I mean, you got a record label now. What was the, what drove you to do that? I mean, not every artist does that. I mean, it's probably a good thing because then you get to, it's your own label. You get to put your own shit out. Yeah, I think I was just meeting a lot of people

who had really bad experiences at their label. And I felt the opposite. I was like, man, I love Secretly Canadian and Dead Oceans. Like, I've had nothing but good experiences with them. And when Connor and I did Better Oblivion, it went so well that then he signed Bright Eyes to Dead Oceans. it went so well that then he signed Bright Eyes to Dead Oceans. And then I kind of brought it up like, I'd kind of love to

keep signing people to the label. And they were like, yeah. Hell yeah. Let's do it. So yeah, I want a label technically, but I don't want to have to organize it. And it's, you know, it's like a huge team of people who each have a specific job

that I can't do. So it's really fun., it's like a huge team of people who each have a specific job that I can't do. So it's really, it's really fun. It's been really fun. Yeah, it's like little Lord Fauntleroy into, you know, like, here's what I want. And then you can just like skip out when you want. Now, when you, when Connor, or when Connor decides to do that, do you, like, are you seen as the person? Did you scout him? Do you get

a percentage? Do they give you a little taste of the signing? I hope the label's listening to this because I should have gotten a fucking signing bonus from Bright Eyes because I had brought you guys that, but no. Instead, they gave me a record label. Or like, I hope you keep doing right and we'll pay you next time that's not so bad i guess no not so bad yeah yeah um well now i mean are there specific things you're looking you're looking to do i mean you

know the second question of this three questions thing is, you know, where you're going. And I mean, and aside from more music, is there anything that you're. I think whenever I get like a, what are your hobbies and what, you know, what do you like that's not music or what would you do if it wasn't for music? I can only think I'm such a it's like a Spicoli answer where I'm like I don't know like listen to music you know like maybe I'd maybe I'd produce records like I cannot think of a job that doesn't have to do with it um so but but that being said

i'm interested in every kind of facet so if it's like yeah if it's like producing or doing a movie score or like something weird that i haven't done that still has to do with music um i love that shit you know yeah like i i love kind of like the Danny Elfman, like business model. And, uh, but that being said, I would also love to like run away and live in the woods and have like 56 pug dogs.

Um, but maybe it can all happen at once. Yeah. That's, I mean, cause that's what I, I often, Because that's what I often, something I find with people in creative endeavors, careers, is that there is like a very common fantasy of fuck it all.

I'm going to disappear and you know go to college and become like you know fucking brian may is an astrophysicist you know that yeah that's so sick and it's just like they'll do that kind of thing and you'll hear about that occasionally um but and for me it would be like i don't know you know i at this point, I don't have any marketable skills. But in a given day, it would have been like, you know, I don't know, work at a zoo. I like animals. Yeah. So it's interesting that you're and it's nice and you should count yourself lucky that you're you know, it's just music and that you can't you know, that you're not so sick of it. and that you can't, you know, that you're not so sick of it.

Yeah, my first tour was called the Farewell Tour, because I always think that's funny when people, like, quit, and then they come back. Yeah, the last tour. Do a reunion tour. Yeah. I think I've seen Guided by Voice's last tour, like, eight times. Yeah, Black Sabbath did that, too.

Yeah, totally. They had, like, four. This is it. You better come. Well I guess I mean is there anything else? You just more music? Yeah just more music. You want to get a better apartment? I will definitely get...

I will definitely move. But, yeah, I'm like a... I'm kind of obsessed with it. It kind of feels like being like, you know, like it's like a storm blanket for a dog. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's just like I'm squished in here. Yeah, because I don't think we...

We were talking about your apartment before we started recording, and've been there for seven years yeah yeah and uh and you have you outgrown it or are you just totally there's nowhere to play music one time i was playing very soft guitar in here and someone yelled shut the fuck up through my window so So yeah, it's time. It's time to get the fuck out. Everyone's excited. So yeah, I'll move. I'll get another dog. And I'll probably just try to have my job again. Again, I haven't had my job for that long. Yeah.

My first record came out three years ago. And I've been on one tour cycle. Can't wait to go back. My goals are for the pandemic to be over yeah that's that's my goal in life that's good that's a good one well then there the third question is the what have you learned like uh you know you're young but you you have to know something uh something anything Jesus Christ just something I mean my real advice for my younger self or whatever

is like yeah like you are the reason that I don't know like if people if people try to tell you that they're going to like help you out by signing you to some shitty contract or something like you are what's cool about that situation you are not lucky to be offered that if you believe in like the stuff that you make you will find people that you want to work with. You don't have to work with people. Yeah. I think that's like a real lesson,

but also pee after sex is another one that I wish I had known. So that's, you know, your mom did some good. You know, she made you feel special. That gave you a sense of yourself. And you were strong enough to stand up for yourself in situations. But she really dropped the ball on that one. She really did.

She's a comedian. Is she? She got divorced pretty late. My parents weren't really together my whole life. But then they officially got divorced in my early 20s and she hit the ground running started doing comedy um but yeah she has a funny story about me like sending her some very revealing photo and being like is this an std um and uh she told that joke on stage when I was in the audience at her first ever comedy show.

So she's really funny. Yeah, that's nice. What a nice story. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody was on the show when my son was in high school. Somebody just had a baby and they were talking about circumcision. And then the guy turned to me, I can't remember who it was.

And I was like, do you have kids? And I was like, yeah, I said, I have a son. And I said, yeah. And I said, but he's not circumcised. And then I was like, oh, hey, everybody at my son's school. By the way, Will's not circumcised everybody i realized like oh fuck right that's a teenager i'm talking about that's not a baby oh shit yeah anyway enjoy love that yeah well phoebe this has been a uh a really really fun. Really a joy to borrow with Jimmy Pardo.

It's a joy. You're a joy. And I love your work so much. And you're just, you know, it's amazing. Just you make beautiful music that just you wouldn't expect someone your age to to make i don't know if that's a compliment you know i mean it totally is okay everybody wants everybody because that's i yeah because it's like it's real you know just some of your stuff is just so the the writing is just so beautiful you have a beautiful voice too but who gives a shit about that it's the words the words

are the important part so um thank you so much for taking time. I really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks so much. This has been so fun. And good luck. And I'll see what I can do about getting the pandemic over so you can get through and retake the world. Yeah. All right, everyone. Thank you for listening. This has been another episode of The Three Questions. God knows if there will be more in thiswolf production. It's produced by me, Kevin Bartelt, executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, associate produced by Jen Samples and Galit Zahayek,

and engineered by Will Beckton. And if you haven't already, make sure to rate and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.