The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Phoebe Bridgers (Re-Release)

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

(Re-released from December 2020) Musician Phoebe Bridgers talks with Andy Richter about facing careless criticism, what she likes about the way in which her writing has evolved, and doing press from home for her latest album "Punisher."

Hey everybody, welcome back to The Three Questions. I am your host, Andy Richter, and we've got another one from the archives. We're going back this month and looking at some of our favorite episodes of the show. This week we're resharing my conversations with the very talented Phoebe Bridgers. I spoke with Phoebe back in 2020, not long after the release of her second studio album, Punisher. So here's my conversation with Phoebe Bridgers. Hello, Internet. This is or I don't know, you know, I guess it's the Internet podcast people. It's Andy Richter with another episode of The Three Questions. Yeah, that's what it's called.

And I'm really happy today to be talking to Phoebe Bridgers, who is an amazingly talented artist, singer, songwriter. And do you get wise beyond your years? Do you get that kind of thing? I feel like only from, are we allowed to curse on this? Yeah, of course. Fuck yeah. I feel like only from people who are trying to fuck me.

You know, like I feel like. Oh boy, I stepped up right on the right foot. No, but like my mom, like I feel like oh boy I stepped up right on the right foot no but like my mom like I feel like my friends are like god you're such an idiot I mean yeah sure like like when people only know my music yeah and haven't seen like my twitter or whatever sometimes I get oh wow I laugh so loud that this like topped out my microphone tops out. So that's a really good sign. But, yeah, I feel like I've only mostly gotten that from people who've actually met me. From, like, yeah, people.

Because I don't feel wise beyond my years, you know? I feel... Or if I'm wise beyond my years, I feel like 30, you know? And I'm 26. So I feel maybe, like like a couple of years off, but not like, yeah, I don't feel very wise. Yeah. All right. Well, now you are you are a SoCal native. Have you heard this show at all? Do you know this show at all? Oh, yeah. Oh, OK. Good. Oh, good.

So, you know that it's kind of, you know, that we're going to get into your history here. Can't wait. All right. All right. All right. Are you in therapy, may I ask? Yes. And have you been for a while? Yeah. I, you know, I think you just kind of try stuff and I didn't know if I liked it. And now I'm trying a new thing. I was in talk therapy for a

while and then I was like oh I want to try EMDR um which one is that no it's the one where they like basically traumatize you and then they calm you down with like lights and touch and like yeah yeah yeah it's very hippy dippy um and And I went once, and then the pandemic started. And so now I just talk to that therapist on Zoom. And we don't do EMDR. So it's talk therapy anyway. Again. Oh, wow.

But I really like her. She rocks. Did it? Well, now, because that actually is something that was recommended for, I can't, well, somebody in my family that was recommended for them. I mean, I don't want to, you know, I can't even divulge my family stuff or, you know, like that's patient privilege. But yeah, but it sounded interesting to me. It's like, kind of like, is it like a depression sort of alternative or anxiety or? It's for PTSD.

It's like, it's making sure that your like coping mechanisms match with your life now. You know, I think I have all these, I mean, I know I have defenses up about shit that doesn't matter anymore. You know, um, I think my, I tend to dissociate or write about it a lot, but I tend to like not feel when good or bad things happen to me. You know, I'm just like, you know,

Oh yeah. Someone died. That's sad. I'll feel that in three years. Right. Um, so I got married. Hooray for them.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it's trying to match up with your emotions. And I don't know. I think it's working. I like cry at movies more and stuff. Yeah. It took me a long time because I've had depressive issues forever.

Lucky me. Born with a bad brain. Love my brain. You can trade it. You know what sucks about it, too, is that, like, then having two kids, they have kind of bad brains, too. Yeah. As much as I feel like I learned from the mistakes of previous generations,

not naming names, you know, in terms of like parenting and doing things, but they still like one of them's nervous and, you know, or they're both kind of nervous. And now, especially with like this fucking COVID stuff, my daughter, who's 15, kind of nervous. And now, especially with like this fucking COVID stuff, my daughter, who's 15, I feel like it's going to affect her for the rest of her life. Like she's going to be kind of just nervous. Like she tells me, you know, she says things like, I saw a picture of me and my friends at a party before COVID. And she goes,

and it made me so nervous to see us all standing so close to each other. And Holy shit, that breaks your heart. But I don't, what am I going to tell her? Like, you know, MAGA,

like, don't worry about it. It's all, it's like, no, you need to be scared about this, but it's, I just,

I just fear that it'll, you know, imprint on her and make her a scared person. Right. I think for people who are prone to anxiety, but it hadn't really come to the surface yet, it's made people a lot more anxious in ways that they've never dealt with. But I also think that people with crippling anxiety, like a couple of my friends and definitely me in certain ways, crippling anxiety, like a couple of my friends and definitely me in certain ways.

Like when the pandemic started, I was like, see, the world is horrible and we should be inside all the time. And I'm going to bake cookies on day one. On day two, I watched the SpongeBob movie. Like I was, I was ready for someone to tell me to stay inside because the world's a horrible place. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Yeah, that's it. One of my worst tendencies is to recede, is to like. Yeah, me too. You know, all right, fine. I'll just stay home. That's fine with me, you know.

Totally. And that's why there were times. I mean, now it's just gotten to be ridiculous. But there were definitely times when I felt like a guilty pleasure and like, I don't have to go anywhere. Oh, yeah yeah for sure fuck this i'm staying home i got my dog and me and that's it you know um and i also you know i'm having my kids here at least i had that so i think i had just enough and podcasts i pathetically enough fuck when I have to record a podcast, it's like,

I got to talk to a person today. You know, it's, it's, it can be sad. Yeah, I know. There,

there are like a couple interviews that I did right in the beginning of COVID where like they were totally done with their questions. And I'd be like, and I feel like I inherited that from my mother. And, you know, that's just the way it goes sometimes. And, you know, And I feel like I inherited that from my mother. And, you know, that's just the way it goes sometimes. Yeah. You know, it's like. Yeah.

Are you familiar with the Byzantine era? Yes. You know, I love bird watching. I was starting to say, you're a SoCal kid, right? Yeah. Yeah. And was your family from SoCalcal or did they come here from somewhere else yeah my dad is from idaho and my mom is from northern california uh-huh um and then they moved here to so that my dad could be closer to work because he built sets for movies. So, yeah.

So grew up in Pasadena. Okay. And he was building sets and living somewhere else? Yeah. I mean, I think the first like two years, I'm going to get this wrong and my mom's going to scream at me. But I was born in Orange County, had an apartment in Orange County. And then before I can remember, they moved to pasadena okay um i guess the uh hospital there is called hoag hospital and i told someone i was from orange county that i was born there and they were like hoag baby i guess that's a thing they call themselves hoag babies which i think is a would be a horrific

band name hoag baby yeah that's not good it doesn't strike like a good and more than me and how fucking southern california is it to give a shit and prestige to what hospital you were born at yeah yeah my kid cedar sinai fuck you he was born into privilege yeah exactly yeah he was born into an amazing oncology department unlike those swine out there well what was that i mean pasadena's kind of i mean from my perspective a it's a beautiful old town it's like such a pretty old place. But I don't know what growing up there would be like. Is it like lots of rich kids? Is it, you know?

Yeah, it's kind of like pick your poison. Like there's good public schools, but I went to a private granola middle school and kindergarten and stuff where like you don't have to wear shoes and you don't have grades. And yeah, you're like you're a sex ed teacher in fifth grade makes you do like a basically like a virtual reality meditation where you imagine what it would be like to be persecuted for your sexuality. So it's, it was really wild. And then I went to an arts high school called Loxa. I know of it. Yeah, yeah. That was, I tried to talk my daughter into going there, but she's, she's staying, she's been in the same school K through 12. So she didn't want to go. Totally. But I kind of, I just love the idea of getting around people who were serious about being creative as soon as possible. Yeah, I think that's the most valuable thing. In comparison.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like I didn't go to college. Yeah, like I didn't go to college, so I would have been jealous of my friends who went to college and met people who are really into the same thing, but I already had that. We call it tour bidding when you tour and play festivals always at the same time as another band or you play shows in the same city. And it's kind of like going on a road trip where your friends are also on a road trip visiting the same places and it's so weird so you go to each other shows and whatever but the amount of times that i do that with bands and i'm like oh my god the drummer was in my class or whatever like it's just cool oh there's a lot of kids from your school that are out in bands right now yeah just like out in the world or or visual artists um my brother went there for visual art and those kids are my my brother i thought he was going to

be kind of like an introverted nerd forever um because he was super into science and loved like counting things and um but then i went to his 18th birthday, and I guess I hadn't been keeping track of his friends, and it was just at a pool. And I went and walked in the backyard, and there were all these topless girls in the pool. Like, hey, what's up? How's it going? Yeah, it's Jackson's birthday. Oh, are you Jackson's sister? That's cool. Like, he doesn't need me at all. He's so cool. It doesn't make any sense. How much younger is he than you?

He turned 23 yesterday, so we're like three years apart, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that does not happen often, I don't think, to teen boys. Yeah, but I think we have Loxa to thank for that. He found his people. Yeah, yeah. That's have Loxa to thank for that. Yes. He found his people. Yeah, yeah. That's great. Very important step.

Now, when you were a little kid, were you sort of who you are now, you think? Yeah. I mean, I know I was a brat. I know I was a heinous, like, you know, what's her name? Rhoda, the bad seed child. Right. Like, I would hit my little brother and then burst into tears because I didn't want to get in trouble.

Right. And would make it about me and, like, scream. I was, like, the writhing on the floor kid when we passed something that I wanted and couldn't have in the store. So I think I think, you know, some things have changed about me, but maybe my essence is the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this I mean, was well. Do you are you going on your own memories of this or is this just the line on you that your family has created? I don't have a great memory, so I don't remember a lot of it.

And so I can't tell what's like planted, you know, what's like stories that my mom told me that I replayed. I have so many memories I don't trust because it's just something that was told to me so many times. And I think I just pictured it and now I don't know whether it actually happened or I just fabricated it. But I do have one or two visceral memories. I have a very visceral memory of making balls of bread to shove into my brother's mouth. I don't think I was trying to choke him, but I think it was fun to rip out the inside of bread at a restaurant and roll it up and shove it into his mouth and i got in trouble and i threw a fit but i did and i've heard that story but i remember shoving bread into my brother's mouth right right

yeah it's just it's an aggressive kind of nurturing that's really what it is right yeah it's a very yeah fuck you definitely similar i love you yeah yeah i love you so much you won't be able to breathe um so and and is it a happy house i mean did you were you happy to have your little brother along or i mean and i mean i don't know if that's an unfair question because, you know. No, not at all. I mean, it was my brother's birthday yesterday. So I saw my mom and brother and she told us stories. So I actually have recent info about this, but I guess my grandma like read somewhere that it's healthy to if there's an older sibling to to not mention the baby uh like my grandma had not met my little brother yet when he was just born and home from

the hospital um but she didn't want to make me jealous so she came in the door and was like hey phoebe how's it going and i talked to her for 45 minutes without bringing up my little brother who was in the next room and my grandma was really trying hard not to ask about it or whatever and I guess she was like or we heard Jackson my brother cry and then uh she was like what's that and I was like oh it's my brother she was like how's being a big sister and I said that? And I was like, oh, it's my brother. She was like, how's being a big sister? And I said, it's horrible. And she was like, nothing about it is good. And I was like, no, nothing.

But then we became very close. Yeah. Well, that's good. That's good. You got over the initial hump. And you got to, you know, it's on him. You're there first. It's on him to win you over rather than you win him over.

He was very passive as a kid, which I think helped. Like he wasn't, I bullied the shit out of him, but he was just kind of like, okay. Yeah, yeah. Like a weird bowling ball child. Yeah. I'm like, okay. Yeah, yeah. Like a weird bowling ball child.

Yeah. Well, then, is it a musical house? I mean, are you guys, are your folks musical at all? I mean, there's obviously some artistic stuff going on. Yeah, my parents love music, but not, like like nobody did it professionally or whatever but as soon as uh i kind of started playing guitar it was like every time there was a family party it was like they used to have a uh um like a saint patrick's day party and they would make me sing Danny Boy every year. Oh, God. Yeah, very traumatizing to me.

Yeah. That's just, that song too is just. She's just why. Just maudlin. Just anyway. Exhausting. Parents, don't do that to your children. No.

All of you listening, never make your child sing danny boy um and what age did you start playing guitar i i feel like i say a different age in every interview but man i don't care probably i don't really care what the answer is i only really started to get seriously when I was like 13, like started like playing for pleasure and not just playing the same, like three chords or whatever. Yeah. Definitely learned a lot of like Neil Young guitar solos. Cause they have like two notes in them.

Yeah. Yeah. And is it, are you, could you pick it up right away or did you have to kind of work at it? Like, are you one of those people? Yeah,

definitely had to work at it, but it's, it was the first time I think I realized like, Oh, if you work at it, you're better tomorrow. Yeah. And I definitely,

I had like a 1.5 GPA when I graduated high school. Like I, it was nothing else in my life proved to that point to me, um, except for music where I was like, Oh, if I practice, then it's like good. Yeah. Yeah. And it's something that you cared about, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And were you, were you writing songs at that point? Are you thinking like, okay, this is what I'm going to do as soon as you sort of start learning those Neil Young young chords or yeah i think my mom um that she would say about other kids but definitely is true of her like she made me feel like the sun shone out of my asshole yeah um and so I think before I was good, she was like, you're going to be the next Bob Dylan,

you know? Um, and I think I bought it. And so, and I attribute that to deciding to be a musician for sure. Really? Just her, her enthusiasm. Yeah. Just my overconfidence from a very young age. I was never told like, Hey, can you please not sing in this grocery store very loudly? Like, I think I had a fantasy that someone was going to, like, scout me, you know? Uh-huh. Like, I used to go to concerts and be like, they are going to see from the stage that I can sing, and they're going to ask me to, you know? Right, right. i just had this like floating through life i mean i blame disney channel yeah that happens all the time on disney

yeah high school musical fucking filled my head up with lies um but i think it it propelled me into sticking with it, which is good. Now, did you ever, as a young Southern California kid with access to show business, did you ever think to go that Disney Channel kind of route? I think my mom submitted me for a contest once once uh that was like a disney channel singing competition that was outside of ikea when i was like 11 and there was a stage and i was gonna sing breakaway by kelly clarkson and i think it got like rained out i can't remember what happened or maybe my mom just saved me from the concept that i lost uh but I remember that pretty well that I was gonna sing that yeah yeah but there was no there was no trying to get you into Disney Channel shows or anything like that because this that happens out you know I mean like it's yeah you know like you know my

daughter at one point she had friends that were working or at least kids that she knew in school and were working and she said that she was kind of interested and i always was like no i was like if you want a job you can wait till you're 16 and you can get a job at in and out or something like you i don't want them i just didn't want them working in show business. It's such a scary... It's just too exploitive. At its base, at its root, it's exploitative. And even as an adult going into it, it's a fucking rough ride.

Yeah, I feel like i hit into it i feel like i yeah didn't i didn't know how exploitative it was until like a year ago maybe and i just have memories even just about being like 18 19 trying to get signed and make a record like the amount of situations that i was in where i was like what like yeah i wish i could go punch people in the fucking face yeah like i i the way that people talk to me the way that people try to kind of like trick you into bullshit it's insane yeah yeah yeah no she asked there was finally one time when she asked me like flat out about it and i i said, she said like, why? Specifically, why?

And I said, because you're going to be around people that say they love you and that they're your friend. But they really just, they're making money with you. They're there to make money. That's why everyone's there. To make money. That's why everyone's there. And I said, and you're also going to be surrounded by adults who are judging your face, your body, your voice, your prettiness, the way you move, the way you – I would be submitting you to a bunch of strange adults who do this with kids all the time so that you could be judged by them. And I just was like i don't

i don't think that's healthy uh no no it's fucked it's uh i mean also like nepotism and stuff is sometimes the only reason that anybody's ever safe it's like oh don't fuck with her you know who her dad is or whatever right and like i i yeah just insane um i was when i was like 19 someone tried to scout me for like a movie that was gonna be like a musicy movie um and i was like sitting in a room full of like these producers and it was me and this other woman were uh or like basically child that was also gonna be in the movie yeah and they were kind of talking to us about it and we're like and this one guy was like the cool thing about you is that you're like accessible lehot like i feel like i could sleep with you is the way you look you know you're not like too model-y. And we didn't want that. We want like excessively

attractive. I was just like, luckily I was old enough at the time where I was, I was like, oh my God, I really wanted a way out of the movie anyway. So I got in the car and was like, mom, guess what this fucking guy said to me? And she thought it was hilarious. Like, are you fucking kidding me? That's amazing. And then I, i when i hung up i was in my car and i was like i could have been either five years younger or a different person who would like go home and fucking kill myself you know like yeah yeah like i i am lucky that i thought it was funny and that my friend and i were like so trying hard not to do the movie we thought it sounded horrible um but yeah just like i was like how careless like he didn't know who i was he he

fucking could have said that to somebody who it could have totally like destroyed their life yeah yeah well and that's they get so comfortable talking like that that it just and it's not everywhere it's you know it's it's different like i hear from friends that work in different comedy places that like certain writers rooms are like the writer's room with a like with with like a gay person there whether they're a support person or one of the writers and then just like ridiculously homophobic typical guy asshole stuff being said all the time with no because they're just like they just get used to this what you know what locker room talk or whatever the fuck but that's just it's astounding um i see i i kind of the ethos for one

of my bands called boy genius was like a boy genius is exactly that like we're jealous not jealous of being an idiot in a room who's loud but just having a little like i feel like i second guess myself even still like if I say something totally normal or I have eight apologies in an email for some reason or before I play a song for someone, I'm like, this is stupid and this part is going to change or whatever. And I'm like, why do some guys walk into the room and they're like, I am correct and my idea is good.

Regardless of the bad shit, I just wish that I had any sort of connection to that part of because because people let it go for so long like and not like abuse and stuff but like i guarantee you people would have taken me seriously earlier if i'd been like even if they were scared of me or whatever if i had just just been like, that idea is bad or like, you're a fucking idiot guy who said that to me. Like, I just wish I had a little bit more of that earlier. Right, right. Yeah, no, that guy definitely, someone needs to say something to that guy.

In fact, after we're done here, I'm going to get his name. I will write him a sternly worded email that will turn him around. Oh, that would be great. I actually should just like, I don't, he was so boring. I don't even remember what his name is, but I should just like, I would love to just kind of carelessly throw it out one day. Ruin his, ruin his Tuesday. Yeah.

Well that, and that thing too, of that sort of like, just natural sort of the only that can be a really helpful thing. And that's like the one, like I envy that in people. And I, like the other thing that I envy in people is the people that just have to create. Cause like, I'm okay with like making dinner, you know, like That takes up my creative energies. And I'm like, all right, I'm set for a while. But that thing of that cocky confidence, I will say that from my perspective of being on a talk show for a million years, it was always kind of fun back when we, you know, before everything changed. changed like because the show's a half an hour now

and it's essentially it's really kind of a different show now and but when they'd be like the second or third guest that would be the you know the fourth star on some new wb show that was just booked uh who knows why and it was always great when this person would come it was always men would come out and nobody you know it's like here he is you know john herschheiser and john herschheiser would come out with this attitude like the stop and pause and soak it in then stroll over stop and pause and soak it in again. And you could just feel that he couldn't feel this collective like, who the fuck are you, man? Sit down. Like, just go over and sit down.

And that was like the only instance, too, where I could feel like, oh, that's a place where you got to, you have to earn that. Like, you have to do, have to kind of earn and that's why i think you know like that kind of presence and that kind of calm usually comes with time you're right that like the the people that have it right off the bat i don't know i i hope they get their comeuppance if they don't have it to back it up i also forget that actors are just theater nerds, successful theater nerds. Like, I forget that. I'm just like, and I find sincerity, you know, maybe childhood drama, whatever. But, like, I find sincerity very hard to handle.

Like, when people are like, oh, my God, you're doing so well. Like, so proud of you. Like, this is great live laugh love whatever um even in a not corny way when my very close friends are like can we just take a very genuine minute to appreciate everything i'm like get the fuck away from me um yeah but i'm yeah i i am never not surprised when an actor opens their mouth and is like, and I'm like, you're so hot though. Like on screen and stuff like people's personalities are amazing to me. It's also the other,

the other other one of those that I have encountered often is musicians are band nerds, you know, like, you know, like, and so you'll meet like a cool rock star and then realize like, Oh no, you're just like, you're Chad, the guy that oh you know like you know like and so you'll meet like a cool rock star and then realize like oh no you're just like you're chad the guy that you know played timpani and in high school yeah yeah yeah i lost my virginity to a um timpani player actually oh loxa go at it. He's so safe. A great introduction to my sex life was like, yeah, in the orchestra, you'd like put on little gloves and like ring a little bell and then go over and hit the timpani. It was amazing to watch.

Like the nerdiest place. So good. Yeah. It's like a fancy waiter with doing a table side, you know, flan day. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And it only like sometimes in some pieces that only it comes every whatever, like 10 minutes. So he's like ramping up for like the big triangle moment. So fun. Yeah. Yeah. Like not even like a drummer, like a percussionist. Yeah. He's a sick drummer fun. Yeah, yeah. Like, not even like a drummer. Yeah. Like a percussionist. Yeah.

He's a sick drummer, though. Yeah. Can't you tell my love's a-crowing? Now, when you get to that high school, I mean, is it easy to fit in there? Cause kind of, you know, I imagine like there's a lot of misfits. I mean, it's, I imagine it's kind of like, you know, I mean, is it easy to fit in as a, like a collection of misfits or is there still kind of like, it's just hard to picture like the cool kids, like the, the jock and the cheerleader at an artsy school. Yeah. They weren't jocks and cheerleaders they were

american apparel models slash visual artists i see or i mean the ultimate cool kid was someone who dropped out to go be famous um like zoe deutch did that i was so jealous yeah we were like in the same year and then she dropped out and became a huge movie star and I was like god damn it but so yeah a lot of the popular kids just stopped going to school um but but there were some you know I think the visual art kids were always the coolest like even if you were handsome or gorgeous as a theater kid you kind of had to like you know we've all seen you put on blacks and do a tableau or a movement class and that's humiliating yeah like you can't be cool in high school no matter how good looking you are and uh and do a tableau um what is i don't even know what that is you know me neither really i think it's just an i think

from what i gather it's like a uh an excuse to do a play with like no setup whatsoever like like i i feel like i've seen a lot of them they're basically almost like slam poetry and stuff yeah um i'm gonna get in trouble for for uh i'm gonna get schooled on what a tableau is but all i know is like lots of stomps and clapping and like am seen um so yeah usually usually visual art kids were pretty cool band nerds were band nerds and you know dorks yeah um dancers were like nobody nobody even they were like kind of it's like twilight like they're like vampires and twilight yeah where you're just like oh nobody talks to those kids so they're kind of separate from they're so gorgeous and yeah work so hard that nobody ever sees them right and generally

yeah they're not real bright there was one there was one uh very amazing dancer who sat next to me in science class who uh i had not done my homework and so i was copying her homework so i mean she's smarter than me in many ways um but she uh she wrote the word what was it it was uh a slow wins she was like the ball slow wins when it reaches terminal velocity and that's who you're copying off of yeah that was who I was copying that's where I was in high school yeah slow in the car oh there was another another dancer who said we were supposed to do like papers on royalty. And we like just at the end of class, our history teacher was going around asking who we were all doing our papers about. And this girl was like, I'm going to do my paper on the Duke of Ellington. Yeah.

Legendary. That's fantastic. Yeah. The Duke of Ellington. Yeah. Now, what's your place in school? Are you known as, you know, what was your rep? I, very gay, very gay looking.

It was really hard. I feel like the boys that I dated in high school, like the girls in high school just kind of gravitated towards me. Like if someone, if someone was like feeling adventurous, they'd be like, oh, I hooked up with Phoebe this weekend. But, oh, God damn it uh people keep calling me i'm so popular still to this day um but it stopped my recording for a second anyway um yeah i like i when i had a crush on a boy i would it would be like four months of hanging out every day and then then being like oh my god you ever crushing me like are you straight uh so yeah like i literally had like a shaved head um and uh i i was the cop from reno 911 for halloween one year in the little booty shorts that was yeah legendary i actually made out with a

a current day instagram model that night um yeah but i feel like i was a little i have no i i'm i was so embarrassing like i don't know um if i was yeah i was really embarrassing and my best friend, Haley, uh, who's rad, she's in a band called sloppy Jane. And I was, I played bass in her band and, um, she shaved her eyebrows off and drew them on every day and wore like

platform goth shoes. She's like a cyber goth. Um, and that's my best friend who I walked around with all the time. So, so I have no idea like what people thought of me, but I'm sure it's humiliating. Yeah.

What, I mean, why do you think why did you shave your head i mean were you was it just pure kind of creative randomness or was there something you were going for i had bleached it and dyed it so many different colors that it was just like dead i think like it was hot pink for a while um and then yeah i just thought it would be cool and then my girlfriend uh had a shaver and she did it in the bathroom like while we were ditching class uh she like did like little like leopard print designs into my head too it was yeah pretty interesting yeah yeah yeah there

was a lady at the farmer's market for years and years who always had a leopard a leopard shaved i've seen her it was like died and a great dane yes yeah yeah you know her i used to busk at that farmer's market the hollywood farmer's market oh yeah so i did the um i didn't have a job in high school, but I would go every weekend to the Pasadena one and the Hollywood one. Oh, really? Because they were on different days. Is that right? Or would I just pick?

I can't remember. But Hollywood, worse tips. Pasadena, way better tips. Yeah. But I liked the Hollywood one more. It was more fun. It's a museum of weirdos yeah that's why i love it totally yeah i probably saw you playing there then it's you know sorry it didn't make an

indelible impression maybe you should have rocked harder yeah i should have gotten scouted dude yeah no because i used i mean i i i live in Burbank now, but I used to go there every Sunday morning either with my kids. I mean, like the people there saw my kids grow up. Like when my kids come with me now, they're like, what the fuck? How'd that kid get that big? Do you start writing songs in high school? Yeah. And do you start sharing them? Yeah, I played shows all the time with my bands. I made a couple different bands. One was called Einstein's Dirty Secret.

I'm going to sneeze. Yeah, one was Einstein's Dirty Secret. One was Phoebe and the Three Men. Oh, thank you. I don't believe that demons are going to get in your nose, but it just feels rude to not get talking about it. I don't think so either, but it's a cool concept. Yeah, it's just, yeah.

It's the one moment when your body lets its guard down. Right, isn't it because your heart stops? That's what my grandpa told me, is that your heart stops for a second so the devil can get in your soul, which I love. Right. I love that energy. Anyway, yeah, I believe it shows... It seems kind of easy, like for the devil to get in your soul.

That seems easy. Totally. I feel like, yeah, the devil could do it either way. I don't think he was really waiting for you to sneeze. Yeah. But, yeah, so I played shows. I would like pay to play shows and then like hustle tickets at school. Like you pay whatever it is.

Like, I mean, stressful. Like maybe like 500 bucks and then you have to sell 500 bucks of tickets or whatever. To get into a show? Wow. So if you play like the Troubadour, not to get the Troubadour in trouble, but I know they used to do this. Same with Whiskey. El Rey, we did it once at the El Rey, where you buy the tickets. You buy all the tickets and then it's your job to sell the tickets.

So you're your own promoter. Are you headlining or you have the whole night? Well, there were a couple because it was an art school. There were a couple different bands. There was this really cool band called Hazel that was like my friend Angelica Garcia. that was like um my friend angelica garcia uh there's a band called kitten which was led by uh chloe chidas who um wasn't in our same high school but everybody in kitten was in my band and went to laksa so it was it would be like one kind of like a night of teenagers in bands uh it was pretty fun but like the opposite of a house show because because you're in West Hollywood and you're all dressed up

and whatever. But then I did play quite a few house shows as well, especially with Sloppy Jane. Sloppy Jane was my band with my best friend where she wrote all the songs, I just played bass, but we'd literally go play in Riverside at a party and then there was a trash can

fire and the police. that was really fun that does sound fun now what uh but are these saw you know i think i think about like as being as revealing as you are in your songs. And I mean, in those days, were you that revealing? And, and when you're that young and that, you know, so fragile, I mean, kids are fragile anyway, but then to be sort of spilling your guts on stage for strangers, that seems like crazy brave. I have a, I've been thinking about this a lot because for some reason, the reason I say I was embarrassing as a little, as a teenager is because I think I thought that like I wasn't interesting without like trauma stories. Yeah.

I was like, you know, well well my dad did this or whatever um but it was always the weirdest stuff like i think that i did have a traumatic childhood but i would like make up weird shit or like or um yeah i don't know i wanted to be basically like a manic pixie dream girl style like i think i put on kind of a fake personality um and so my music early on it sounded like music I listened to but like I had I was totally straight edge and I had kind of a song about drugs although I mean tons of my friends did them and it was hard to watch but like I don't I don't think I learned how what I like about my writing now is that it's kind of direct, and the best stuff to me is when I'm like, can I say that?

Like, is that music, or is that cheating, or is this going to piss somebody off? And those end up being kind of my favorite lyrics. But I definitely didn't know how to do that, and I almost talked in, like, a different voice, almost, like, old English-y or um like yeah there's a what's a sample of that if you there's a song on my first record that's about Sid and Nancy where I say like for to mean like you know because and weird stuff like that uh that I don't do and now I really try to kind of keep it exactly my the way that I talk yeah

yeah like you know SAT vocab words and flexing all sorts of weird stuff and I think once I like stripped all that back it became easier to write songs too it was so harder at songs then and I almost never did it because it stressed me out like I liked having songs but i didn't like writing

songs and then once i kind of cut the bullshit i i think it became easier yeah they always say you know like they talk about springsteen's early song and i'm not like a big springsteen guy or anything but i mean you know he's kind of a big presence and stuff and they talk about when he said in interviews that when he was writing songs he was just trying to do what bob dylan did yeah like all that madman's drummers bummers indians and that was just nervousness he just said he would just try and cram as many you know little early burly came by in his curly whirly like you man cut it out and but you know dude think about that though like actually like internalize that like sure that's poetry sure you know nice curly whirly, dude. Dude, you just, yeah, living life in your fucking curly whirly.

But yeah, but I think that, yeah, you're nervous, you're trying to, and it just, you know, I think that so much of, well, I mean, it's amazing to be that creative on that level, that young. young. Like, that's when I think about when I think about like you, I picture you as like a 19-year-old going into the music business, and I think the dad in me is like, oh, no.

And you're going to share your feelings? You know, it just is, you know, and as a damaged person, I'm like, oh, what are you doing? Why are you writing chum on yourself and going into that shark pool, you know? Totally. And, and I mean, why, why do you think you do that? What do you, I mean.

I don't think I knew it was a shark pool. Yeah. You know, I think I was, was a shark pool. Yeah. You know? I think I was, uh, I don't know. I want to give myself some credit, though, because I think my protective mechanisms that I did have saved me from a lot of shit. Like, I mean, I had a really bad experience early, um, like, right after I turned 20, where I met Ryan Adams, and, uh, uh he oh god people keep calling me i'm so fucking popular i can't handle it um but i don't want to turn airline mode yeah but then

it'll disconnect to this microphone that i have that connects to the maybe if i turn off my data no because it's wi-fi all right it's we're we're still going it'll be fine um that doesn't really matter it's just a podcast yeah um it does matter so yeah so i met ryan adams and i i really loved ryan's music and so like i want to say like i walked right into the shark tank but also like he tried to co-write on some song like i showed him some songs and he wrote very like he didn't write stuff that i liked and i was just like oh like i'm gonna go home and change it which i did like i think even at the time people i looked up to their influence if i yeah like i rejected things that i didn't like no matter who gave it to me

yeah you know like I was like I the thing I wrote was the thing I wrote was better than the thing that the famous guy tried to get me to say and this so yeah um so as much as much as I walked right into the shark tank I also think that something was like man can't wait to get out of here and, and create my own safe tank. Which I did, I think. Yeah, you did. I mean, I mean, you know, kinda, sorta, uh, because so, and so much of your music too is, and I mean, and I just, I don't, I haven't, I haven't known your music for a long time. I just kinda, I mean, I'd heard your name, but I, first of all, I'm fucking old. So I am not like in the swing of things. I haven't been around for that.

I haven't been around for that long. I know, but still, but you've been around long. But like, there's new bands and shit that I hear about that. I'm like, I don't have any, like, just, that's like, I might as well treat that as like Italian hockey. Like, I don't, I'm never going to know about that. I just go be that over there. Um, but also too, like your music for me, like, you know, I don't mean not to put you in there, but like the thing of emo, you know, that kind of emotional sort of darker music is fucking hard for me to listen to. Like if it's bad, it's boring, you know, to me. Like emo kind of music.

And it's that same thing, like you said, like earnestness just is, it makes my skin crawl. Totally. David and Amy Sedaris, who I worked with they used to love them they used to call they had a word for like when things were like emotional to the point of like making them uncomfortable they would say it was queer but they would say it's choir they'd always say like that's choir about and that's like stuck with me there's so many things that like when people are saying nice things, I'm just like, that's quark. I hate it. Yeah, I'm using that now.

But it's as much as I'm kind of a cynic about it, but it's like good stuff that like really – like your stuff is good and really – not that you need my whatever. But like it's hard to listen to your music sometimes because it fucking hurts. And I can't imagine what it's like to like pack up your shit in one town and then go to the next town. And then like, you know, hey, everybody get ready for my catalog of personal bad memories, you know yeah set to tunes it's pretty

masochistic yeah it's totally masochistic i yeah i um like when i i kind of get off on showing people things that i know is going to bother them. You know, like my mom or whatever, when I'm like, my mom's pretty easy to make emotional. I love you, mom. She rocks. But yeah, like if I need somebody to tell me that I'm great and cry

to everything that I show them, it's my mom. But yeah, there have been a couple times in the studio even with Tonyony berg my producer and real father um i uh where he'll just like i can tell he's like fucking what is this torture music yeah yeah and i like i like that and i and i i take forever to write. I am extremely deliberate. I'll write a second of something, and then if it feels like I'm kind of pushing it too hard, I'll leave it alone for three months and work on something else

until something's obvious to me. So I'm already over it by the time I'm showing it to people, let alone playing on tour. So when people get fucked up at shows, as in feel upset or cry loudly, I'm like, yes, I feel nothing. And you feel pain. It's great. That is kind of interesting because, yeah, it is. It's like a transference.

It's like, you know, yeah like you've poisoned me world well here i used to feel way worse on opening slots like i did a whole violent femmes tour um and they were all so sweet but god their fans did not want to hear my fucking um they were just like who the fuck is this like if it's someone's first time hearing something hate that but people come to my shows now i'm like oh you paid for this yeah you know yeah they know it's like a dominatrix yeah yeah um is you is writing a process for you that you have to do or do you make yourself do it like do you feel like oh shit i'm getting low on songs i gotta write something or is it like do you have writing sessions like everything like where you set out like today i'm gonna write because i don't write anything that's i'm i'm projecting my own sort of like i always have to be like no you have to write something write

something right now yeah me too i'm like that um yeah there's a i think it was jen kirkman who tweeted one time like uh i know i'm trying to write when i clean a drawer or something like yeah yeah i like organize all my shit when i'm when i'm supposed to be writing um but i think i used to think like oh just wait it out wait till it comes naturally like it really doesn't come naturally for me the best thing that i write is when i've pushed it a little too far and feel like i'm not getting anything and i'm like oh shit actually i've been trying to get something for that line for like four months and i just did it because i sat down yeah um but it's hard to get myself to sit down, actually.

I have, like, avoidance behavior around it. I think, though, too, there might be something, too. Even though it seems like you were waiting for the magical moment, but you really sat down, that could be the same thing. You know, like that when you chose to sat down might be because you were ready to shit out that idea, you know like that that when you chose to sat down might be because you were ready to to shit out that idea you know totally it really does feel like shitting yes yeah it's great yeah i love shitting my grandma used to always be like if anybody was grumpy or she'd be like did you

poop today i'm like that's like a your mom would say my grandmother my grandmother like it's and it's it's true like if you're like oh yeah i haven't that's why i'm upset it is the thing too that like i just am amazed like how much of everyone's life is spent shitting or like or like dealing with shitting like oh i like i had a bad shit today or you know or or just you know the aftermath you know of what one can have from shitting and just it's in like all of us are walking around at some point in most in a good portion of our days with being affected by the shitting and no it's not anything any you know do you ever go into a hotel room like fancy hotel room and for some reason

the fucking door is like kind of foggy glass like to the toilet yeah yeah where you're like okay either i'm here with like my mom on a girl's weekend or with someone i'm sleeping with or even a you know like a marriage what scenario what relationship do you have to a person where you want the the door to where you're shitting to be clear. Right. Like it doesn't make sense in anything except for completely alone and even then pretty unsettling. Right, right. Yeah, no, it's never – well, I wouldn't say never. It's occasionally.

It's a pretty specific thing. Occasionally it's kind of like that was fantastic. That was transformative. But that should be the time. Yeah. You know? Yeah. No, you're right.

You should have to make that request. You should be like, hey, can we get the room with the clear? Yeah. Door. Can I get the showbiz room? You know, with the, you know for putting on shows for people yeah exactly yeah can't you tell my loves and when you start really

was was touring the first time that you really started to travel the only time yeah i didn't travel much as a kid at all uh the first time i left the country was for music um so yeah and how was that was it scary was it exciting was it all those things yeah it's awesome it was just like it felt like real adulthood. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I can just do, I can just go places. That's insane. Like you can just drive for whatever bunch of hours and be in Oregon. Yeah. If you want.

Like it just, I think I felt stuck for a long time. Yeah. It also too, it's like when you start to get, when you start to have money. Yeah. it also too is like when you start to get when you start to have money yeah you start to feel like like i remember i don't think it was my first time well it was my first time in europe i had been to canada you know uh but my first time in europe uh was shortly after my wife and i were married and we went to visit her sister who was who spoke French. And like that's what she ended up doing for a living. She's a lawyer now, but for a while she used her.

She was a French major and she was an au pair and was studying in France. And we went to visit her. And when we landed at De Gaulle, Charles De Gaulle Airport, I had this. I remember we were taxiing and we're looking out over like the fields. And first of all, there were a million rabbits, like just like, so you, just that you could see out the plane window. And I just, which doesn't matter, but I remember, but I had like a panic attack, like that I was landing in a foreign country where I didn't know the language.

And what was, you know, and with this real panic, like, what the fuck? What if I get separated, you know, from the ladies and I'm on my own? And what do I do? Surrounded by rabbits. Yeah, surrounded by rabbits. Le Pen. And then I had this moment of like, because because it was a relatively new thing for me too. You have a credit card.

Yeah. You can just go to the airport and buy a ticket and fly home. Like, that's like, yeah, you don't have to feel like there's just no chance of anything, you know, like that you'll be stranded, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I, I, isn't that fucked up? Like, yeah.

When I got my, when i got a car that wasn't every that breaking down every two seconds and was 1500 bucks to fix every time it broke down and when i got an apartment i was like do i even have depression you know i was like, man, I can just leave and go places, which is so fucked. Yeah. I want a $6 coffee. You can have one if you want it. Yeah. Yeah.

So touring in Europe is actually a big point of contention with musicians. Everybody hates it. It's like UK, too. It's like it's like uk too it's like food fucking sucks yeah lots of vegans pissed um you're eating like sausage rolls every day and especially if like nobody's coming to your shows or it's depressing or like language barrier you can just get kind of depressed or it's like winter and it's dark all the time. But when I went for the first time, I was touring with Connor Oberst who'd been, you know, 26 times. And it was my very first time. And my mom made me a scrapbook of things to do in each city. And I would like wake up every day on the bus,

you know, and like, you can't, you can't shit on the bus, by the way. Oh, I know. I know. Yeah. I did a short tour with Conan and I I dumped out my drink that had a slight lemon peel in it. Right. I was drinking vodka with just like a slight lemon peel and I had it. It was empty and I just tossed the lemon peel into the toilet and flushed it. And I had it. It was empty. And I just tossed the lemon peel into the toilet and flushed it. And three hours later, we were awakened by the bus being pulled over and shit water just pouring out of the luggage.

Except there's no shit in it. So it's just pee water at that point. With a little bit of lemon to freshen it up. But, you know, the guy gets, the truck driver gets, or the bus driver gets out and he's like they're fixing it and and of course conan's awake because he's just so wired on just all of it and but the guy actually comes up and holds up the lemon no you know i was like oh that was me sorry you know but yes i know like what's the point of having the fucking bus in there if you can't shit in it? But what? And if you have to shit, if it's like an emergency, you put a bag over the toilet and have to like throw it away somewhere.

I've never had to do that. Thank God. But it's called hot bag in it. Nice. Hot bag. It has a word. But anyway, like, I feel like people have this idea of music and comedy and everything that's like, you reach a level and then you're just a famous person walking into golden, lovely lobbies every day and whatever. And I'm like, no, if you have to take a shit on your tour bus, you have to shit into a bag.

And you drive in Germany for 15 hours and you stop at a place that the only thing you can eat is peanuts like it's it's uh there are there are things about it that are amazing but the travel part i feel like is what you get paid for um but anyway my first tour i was like none of that even phased me i was literally like when opening for connor i was like this is the life and i was like going sightseeing and stuff and i'd bring connor with me and he was like actually this is it's really fun to be like i've never thought about tour like this i've never thought about tour because i think he'd been doing it you know since he was like 15 years old yeah um so didn't think about it as like a special like

adventure and i was like 22 and was like ah like this is the first day of the rest of my life and yeah let's go to the abba museum and yeah fuck yes let's go to the abba museum yeah yes well and also your mom made you that because it is like that's one thing I did learn about planning. And that was from my very type A, at least in this area, ex-wife. Everywhere we went, I never had to make any plans. It was always just like, you know, which is actually evidence of like one of my one of my little neuroses that I need to work on. Like, you know, like like why don't you why don't you decide what we do? Said the talk show sidekick. You know, it's like but but she and she and the thing is, too, is that she would she was so good at it like she

fucking picked aces restaurants and amazing interesting old churches and shit like that and so i never and then she'd occasionally get mad and be like why don't you decide something and i'd be like how about this place that place is dumb what about this place yeah those people are assholes over there well then how what do you want to do this okay well let's just do what you want that's what you wanted and you know like i'm fine with you picking it's okay me every day with restaurants really every single every single restaurant decision is like i don't care where we go and then it's like how how about this? Like, ew. Yeah, me every day.

Oh, I hate you. I hate you. I can't. I have that with my kids sometimes. It's like, it's just one fucking meal, kids. It's just fuel. Just come on. My worst trait is probably passive aggression, though.

It's like, let's go to this place and i'm like okay oh do you not want to go there no that's fine it's totally fine that's great i'm an oh it's fine uh darren my manager knows that one time we got sugarfish and he forgot my uh lobster roll and now he calls it the uh you know the like the lob the sugarfish incident of 2020 so yeah i i one time i was in a coffee shop in new york city 2020. So, yeah. I, I, one time I went to the coffee shop in New York city. And it was like down, it was like below Soho. So it was like downtown. And I don't even remember what I was doing in that neighborhood,

but I saw, and I just knew him from doing shit and show business and talk show stuff and, and interview shit. I saw Salt-N-Pepa's manager, which I think was one of their dads, maybe. And he was getting he was getting a carryout order. And I mean, it was like omelets and shit. It was like and and he was being like, you got to have. He's like, what?

You know, do I have this checking everything really thorough? And I said, oh, oh hey to him like that and as he was doing it you know i saw him and i was like hey i'm from the cone it's like oh yeah hi how are you and we because we talked and he's like this is for the girls and if i don't get it right he's like my whole fucking day is ruined so he was just like you know and i can't he's like the worst one, and I can't, he's like, the worst one is, and I don't remember who, whether it was Salt and Pepper or Salt Pepper or Spinderella, but it was one of them. He was like a particularly like, oh my God, everything has to be perfect. He goes, and it usually isn't anyway. So you just got to live with it. Well, living in LA sucks for my personality type too, because yeah, there's like the endless game of going to a brunch restaurant

that's famous for one thing and you get there and they're like oh we're out of the thing that people come here for and you're like okay yes maybe i'm being a brat but also if you were out of it last weekend maybe get more of it the next weekend. Like people come here for it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's me. I'm, I'm the manager.

It's not diamonds. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, how now you had your latest album. Did it drop? I love to say drop. Cause it's really cool to say drop for indie rock or sad emo. Yeah, it drops.

Did it alight upon the earth? Did it settle down from the heavens pre-COVID? No, during. Oh, yeah. See, that's what I was going to say. And, and what has that been like? Have, is it, has it been nice that you've been kind of trapped or has it been, cause I could see it going either way. It hasn't been nice to be trapped. I mean, there are things that are nice about it, but it does feel good to be focused on something. Like I'm glad I already did something that i can talk about because if i was like halfway through and we'd have to stop which i which happened to a lot of my friends um i'd be in

hell yeah but instead i feel some kind of productive it's like yeah also i did a european press tour without having to leave my house which is great you know that's what i mean yeah that's what i mean because like the the acting what I mean. Cause like the, the acting side, you know, the acting, it's the junkets like the press junkets. So it's like a similar thing. Like if you had a movie or a show coming up,

I wouldn't have minded having a movie. Although, you know, and then have to be in COVID for the, cause that's the worst part. Like once it's all done, the making of it is the fun part. And then all the stuff that you don't realize you're going to have.

Nobody goes into wanting to be a musician and goes like, man, I can't wait to talk to the press. Or the same thing. It's like you notice every actor that gets big just stops. They just don't do it anymore. Because it's gross and stupid and yeah repetitive you know um but what what have you i mean so it's been okay to be doing press for the album yeah it's been all right i guess you get you know mildly insulted in the comfort of my own home uh but but that being said i also have like randomly great conversations with people every once in a while.

Like I definitely am not anti-press and that is nice. Like I haven't been burned from it yet. And because I do it so much, like we were talking about earlier, kind of like the fuck you attitude or like I think I'm getting better at my thoughts, catching up with my mouth. Sometimes when I do get a weird question or something, like I love fucking with people now. Yeah. Yeah. You know,

when I get the inevitable, like basically like, why do women choose to make music? And what do you think about other women that are making it? Uh, like I love answering those questions now. It's so fun for me to like scare people. Uh,

but then, but then but then yeah like there's uh i feel like people are getting you know maybe it's just because i have more fans now than in the beginning but this record it seems like people do send for their magazine they'll send the person at the magazine who likes me instead oh that's good yeah a guy yeah totally uh so it's it's fun to talk to those people yeah i have a label now like a and i was yeah i was gonna ask about that how's how's that being a mogul it's great i love it but i forgot that i'm just signing up for being involved in those conversations every day yeah like the shit for other people too yeah which i'm like such a narcissist i'm like i'll do my i'll you know i i feel like we actually really care about my bios

and stuff like our uh what was it like for better oblivion we did something super weird where it was like it was like a conversation with a fake journalist and Connor and I were being really mean to the journalist and each other And just sent that out as like our bio and like my bio on this one that We sent just to press was like my favorite author So so like I have fun kind of like the shitty side of it Yeah

but then I forgot like just how much i was gonna have to think about that shit and people throw out shit like epk and and fucking dsps and stuff to me all day and i'm like what i just i just logged into slack i think i tried to make a slack channel and i accidentally made like five accounts for myself like i'm trying i'm learning how to be like a corny guy who hangs out at soho house on the laptop all day that's gonna be me in like a year i don't even i don't see that's like slack as something i don't even know what the fuck that is i hear about it but i don't i don't know what it is you don't have to tell me i don't i'm gonna investigate i don't know yet yeah yeah yeah no that's i'm torn by that too

because every time that i think i'm not doing enough and then i and especially now during covid you know i'm i'm supposed to be storing up like all these fucking awesome ideas that when we get out of the house i'm gonna just take hollywood by storm right of course i'm not doing a fucking but uh but i just uh i i realize any sort of success always comes with the meetings you know and it sounds really like a babyish kind of thing you know that's true yeah but it just it does it's the one of my favorite tweets the other day was every day there are emails yeah that's how i feel yeah every fucking day yeah there's emails i always i it's like the eat your vegetables of yeah of your life it's like oh you like the good part well you also have to do this this this is part of it like i don't have any the only thing i believe in is like yin and yang like every time you get a good thing

something gets taken away or you also get a bad thing like there's just the nature yeah a natural strive towards balance to just keep us all humble i guess um so what drove i mean you got a record label now what what was the uh what drove you to do that i mean not every artist does that i mean i it's probably a good thing because then you get to it's your own label you get to put your own shit out yeah i think um i was just meeting a lot of people who had really bad experiences at their label and i felt the opposite i was was like, man, I love Secretly Canadian and Dead Oceans. Like, I've had nothing but good experiences with them. And when Connor and I did Better Oblivion, it went so well that then he signed Bright Eyes to Dead Oceans.

And then I kind of brought it up, like, I kind of love to keep signing people to the label and they were like yeah hell yeah let's do it um so yeah i want a label technically but i don't want to have to organize it and it's you know it's like a huge team of people who each have a specific job that i can't do so it's really uh it's really fun it's been really fun yeah it's like little lord fauntleroy it into you know like here's what i want and then you can just like yep skip out when you want now when you when connor or when connor decides uh to do that do you like is are you seen as the person as like you know did you scout him like do, do you get a percentage? Like, do they give you, like, a little taste of the signing?

You know, I should. I hope the label's listening to this because I should have gotten a fucking signing bonus for Bright Eyes because I had brought you guys that. But, no. Instead, they gave me a record label. Or, like, how about you keep doing this and we'll pay you next time. That's not so bad, I guess. No, not so bad. Yeah, yeah.

Well, now, I mean, are there specific things you're looking to do? I mean, you know, the second question of this three questions thing is, you know, where you're going. And I mean, aside from more music, is there anything that you're i think whenever i get like uh what are your hobbies and what um you know what do you like that's not music or what would you do if it wasn't for music i can only think i'm such a it's like a spicoli answer where i'm like i don't know like listen to music you know like maybe i'd maybe i'd produce records like i cannot think of a job that doesn't have to do with it um so but but that being said i'm interested in every kind of facet. So if it's like, yeah, if it's like producing or doing a movie score or like something weird that I haven't done that still has to do with music. I love that shit.

You know, like I love kind of like the Danny Elfman like business model. business model and uh but that being said i would also love to like run away and live in the woods and have like 56 pug dogs um but maybe it can all happen at once yeah that's i mean because that's what i i often something i find with people in creative endeavors uh careers is that there is like a very common fantasy of fuck it all i'm gonna disappear and i'm gonna go somewhere and so it's it's interesting to hear you say or or there's like a you know like maybe i'll quit and you know go to college and become like you know fucking brian may is an astrophysicist you know that yeah and it's just like they'll do that kind of thing and you'll hear about that occasionally um but and for me it would be like i don't know you know i now at this point i don't have any

marketable skills but in the a given day it would have been like you know i don't know work at a zoo i like animals um so it's interesting that you're and it's nice and you and you should count yourself lucky that you're you know it's just music and that you can't you know that you're not so sick of it um yeah my first tour was called the farewell tour because i always think that's funny when people like quit and then they come back yeah the last tour yeah do a reunion tour yeah um I think I've seen guided by voices last tour like eight times yeah uh black sabbath did that too yeah they had like four this is it you better come you know

yeah um well uh Yeah. Well, I guess, I mean, is there anything else? Are you just, you're just more music, more? Yeah, there's more music and. You want to get a better apartment? I will definitely get, I will definitely move. But yeah, I'm like, a i'm i'm kind of obsessed with it it kind of feels like being like you know like it's like a storm blanket for a dog yeah you know it's just like i'm squished in here yeah because i don't think we what we were talking about your apartment before we started recording and you've been there for seven years yeah yeah and uh and you have you outgrown it or are you just totally there's nowhere to play

music one time i was playing very soft guitar in here and someone yelled shut the fuck up through my window so yeah it's time it's time to get the fuck out everyone so yeah i'll i'll move i'll get another dog and and I'll probably just try to have my job again. Again, I haven't had my job for that long. My first record came out three years ago, and I've been on one tour cycle. Can't wait to go back. My goals are for the pandemic to be over. That's my goal in life.

That's good. That's a good one. Well, then the third question is the what have you learned like uh you know you're young but you you have to know something uh something anything jesus christ just something um i i my, my real advice is for my younger self or whatever is like, yeah, like you are the reason that, hmm, I don't know. Like if people, if people try to tell you that they're going to like help you out by signing you to some shitty contract or something like you are what's cool about that situation you are not lucky to be offered that if you believe in like the stuff that you make you will find people that you want to work with you don't have to work with people yeah um i think that's like a real lesson, but also pee after sex is another one that I wish I had known.

So that's that, you know, your mom did some good, you know, she made you feel special. That gave you a sort of a sense of yourself and and you were strong enough to stand up for yourself in situations. But she really dropped the ball on that one she really did um she you know she's a comedian is she she got divorced um pretty late like my parents weren't really together my whole life but then they officially got divorced in my early 20s and she hit the ground running, started doing comedy but yeah she has a funny story about me like sending her some very

revealing photo and being like is this an STD and she told that joke on stage when I was in the audience at her first ever comedy show so she's really funny yeah that's nice nice what a nice story yeah yep yeah i uh somebody was on the show when my son was in high school somebody just had a baby and was taught they were talking about circumcision

and then they the guy turned to me I can't remember who it was. And he was like, do you have kids? And I was like, yeah. I said, you have a son? And I said, yeah. And I said, but he's not circumcised. And then I was like, oh, hey, everybody at my son's school. By the way, Will's not circumcised, everybody.

I realized, oh, fuck, right. That's a teenager I'm talking about. That's not a baby oh shit yeah anyway enjoy love that yeah well phoebe this has been a uh a really really fun a really a joy to borrow with jimmy parto um it's a joy you're a joy joy. And, and, and I, and I love your work so much. And I'm, and you're just, you know, it's a, it's amazing. Just, you, you make beautiful music that just, you wouldn't expect a, someone your age to make. I don't know if that's a compliment, you know? I mean. It totally is. Okay, good. Everybody wants, everybody wants that compliment.

Yeah, because it's like, it's real, real you know just some of your stuff is just so the the writing is just so beautiful you have a beautiful voice too but who gives a shit about that it's the words the words are the important part so um thank you so much for taking time i really appreciate it yeah thanks so much this is so fun and good appreciate it. Yeah, thanks so much. This has been so fun. And good luck. And I'll see what I can do about getting the pandemic over. Yeah, sweet. Thank you very much.

And retake the world. Yeah. All right, everyone. Thank you for listening. This has been another episode of The Three Questions. God knows if there will be more in this world in these times. But come back next week. And, you know, if there isn't anything, you can just listen to the science.

Bye. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Earwolf production. It's produced by me, Kevin Bartelt, executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, associate produced by Jen Samples and Galit Sahayek, and engineered by Will Becton. And if you haven't already, make sure to rate and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts.

This has been a Team Coco production.