The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Tim Heidecker

Episode Date: December 10, 2019

Comedian Tim Heidecker talks with Andy Richter about making demos with his high school band, being plucked from obscurity by Bob Odenkirk, propmastering on low budget horror films, and immersing himself in the comedy of real people with Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job. Plus, Tim reflects on the unexpected ways his work has been interpreted and looks forward to his upcoming tour.

Hello, three questioners. That's what I've decided to call you people. You people with, well, however long this will take time on your hands. It's Andy Richter. You're listening to The Three Questions. And it is my extreme pleasure to have Tim Heidecker on the show today. Hi, Tim. Hello.

Thank you for making time with me. You're welcome. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. For me, I guess. Sounded like you were going to go into a Marc Maron riff at the top there with my three questioners. Oh, yeah. My three question-eater, question-ators. I don't listen to – yeah.

I mean, it wasn't really – no, yeah. You're not influenced by other podcasts. No, because I don't listen to really any of them. I mean, no, I actually do know Marons, but I don't listen to any podcasts with any regularity because I'm lazy, I guess. What about hard – are you a history buff? Sort of. And I mean, and I do listen – there are some – like there's one that I enjoy called

Noble Blood that's all kind of about like – The white supremacy that you're into. It's about like trashy royal shit. Oh, okay. But like through history. Right. Kind of – I mean, trashy in that it's sort of, you know, okay but like through history right kind of uh i mean trashy in that it's sort of you know the lurid kind of more lurid aspects right but no i bet it's

and people are pitching me podcasts all the time um to listen to to listen to but i end up like i listen if i'm i first of all i'm not in the car a ton I don't sit sort of designed your life so that you are not driving across precisely I live I live in Burbank I work in Burbank you live in Glendale yeah which is probably the only reason you're here is because what are you five minutes five minutes away we have our absolutely office in Glendale as well yeah yeah so yeah it's it's the key if you can do that here We were doing a commercial last week. Eric and I direct commercials to fill the time and to pay the bills. And the commercial was shooting in Marina Del Rey.

Yeah. For three days straight. And it drove you crazy. Well, no. We said, well, we have to stay in Marina Del Rey when we're shooting the commercial. Oh, really? So they put us up in a hotel. Because I couldn't. Like, it's an hour,

it's two hours to get there. Oh, absolutely. And then two hours to come home, so. I did a, I was developing a game show for an outside production company, and we were trying to sell it to Game Show Network, who are in Santa Monica. Oh, forget it. And I had two days, and i went through uh did a presentation live presentation in the conference room at game show network doing performing this

game show two days in a row first for just the president of the game show network and then the next day with they found like it's it was a with, it's like a quiz show with a family. Right. They found some family to be the fucking contestants. For the pitch of the show. And then all the decision makers of the Game Show Network came down and watched us put on a little game show. Each morning I had to be there at 9 a.m., which means I had to leave Burbank at 7 a.m. Right.

And just barely make it on time. No, that's not a way to live life. Yeah, and then compounding it was the first day someone from Game Show Network saying like, oh, I'm surprised that you're here. Usually just a producer, when we do these presentations, a producer sits in for the host. Like the host doesn't actually show up to do this. They can imagine that it would be a real host. So it's like, oh, so what you're telling me is, is my time is far too cheap.

Yeah. And I'm far too accessible. And then they fucking passed. They're like, it was all trivia. And they're like, we're not doing trivia. Like, you had me come out here two fucking days. That's the word. We're not doing trivia.

Like, you had me come out here two fucking days. That's the worst. If you're asked to go and, I mean, people listening to this must not be psyched to hear this conversation. Right. Tough shit, people. Yeah, but if it's like you have a meeting in Santa Monica to pitch a show that you have a good feeling they're not going to pick up. Right. Like, it's a dumb idea. Your agent's doing their job.

They got you the meeting. You feel like, I guess I have to pitch it to these people, but I know they're not going to pick up. Right. Like, it's a dumb idea. Your agent's doing their job. They got you the meeting. You feel like, I guess I have to pitch it to these people, but I know they're not going to pick it up. And it's at 3 o'clock. Oh. Unlike on a Friday. On a Friday. Yeah, yeah.

That's when they can get me in. Okay. I guess that's four hours, four or five hours with the meeting and being involved. Yeah. It's a little heartbreaking. Right. hours with the meeting and be involved yeah it's it's uh it's a little heartbreaking right and you could fucking you could you could drive to santa barbara and be swimming in the ocean but in the same amount of time that it takes you to go get rejected and drive exactly and you could have

done that on uh facetime yeah you could have sat in bed and video chatted through the meeting yeah people are laughing thinking we're doing some kind of bit, but we're very serious about this. No, this is, no. I mean, I'm sorry. I know people are like, oh, entitled, and oh, it must be rough, and oh, you know, there's a million people that wish they could be. Well, if there's a million people, have at it, people. As my dad would say when I was a kid, call the kid in Ethiopia if I complained about anything. How does that kid – look, that kid in Ethiopia has a phone.

He doesn't even have a phone. Yeah. Hello. But no, it is. It is true. No matter what you do – It's all relative. Yeah.

And who could be the fucking Pollyanna their whole life and be like, oh, I'm so lucky I can never complain. No, shit, it's my life. Yeah, yeah. And sitting in the car for me is the same as sitting in the car for somebody in Kansas City. Sure. So it doesn't matter. Anyways, we got the bitching out of the way.

I hope there's more because, man. I have many things to complain about. Bitching is one of my favorite things in the whole world. And there's lots to be upset about. Oh, absolutely. What about ranting? Ranting. I about ranting? Ranting. I rant.

Absolutely. So you're from fucking, you're from the goddamn Rust Belt. Rust Belt. That's right. Allentown, Pennsylvania? Allentown. We call it Allentown, Pennsylvania. And what were your people?

Southern accents. Were your people like, you know, factory people? I mean, is that – yeah? I mean, why Allentown? Almost. Well, let me think. My dad had a Ford car dealership. That was his dad's.

Heidecker Ford? It was called Emmaus Ford, which was the area. I see. The township or whatever. My grandfather on my mother's side. Did he do TV commercials? There was, yes. And there is one that I'm in. Oh, wow. Literally kicking tires, like when I'm like nine years old. Is that online? You got to put that. It's probably on tape somewhere in our basement. Yeah, yeah. You should find that. That would be really fun. Yeah. There

were commercials. So it was my dad. He had that, but no people I've noticed this thing in the past, maybe years. I think there was in reference to one of these congressmen, the guy, Matt gets, yeah. Where there was this thing online saying, this guy looks like the son of a guy whose dad owns a car dealership. Have you seen that? Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I look at that and go, whose dad owns a car dealership. Have you seen that? Yeah, yeah. And I look at that and go, well, my personal experience growing up with a dad who owned a car dealership was not, it was not like we were rich.

Yeah. They owned a Ford dealership in the 80s, which was, there was just one dealership. They didn't have like a chain of them. And there were five other Ford dealerships in Allentown, right? Oh, wow. Or three or something. Right, right. And Chevy.

And this is the era of high inflation and gas prices were, as the oil embargo going. There's all sorts of things that made owning a car dealership very hard, very thin margins. Yes, that's what I was going to say. It's all thin margins. It's always thin margins. Super stressful.

And my dad worked six days a week. You know, he would come home for dinner and then go back to the dealership to be there until it closed. You know, so it was like not a luxurious thing to do to own a car dealership. And it's also something he didn't want to do. Yeah. To begin with. Yeah. You know, it was one of those things.

He came out of college, went to work there for his dad for the summer, and then just never left. You know, just kind of kept taking on more responsibility. Were you aware of that sort of regret? Was it something that he was open about? I think it was a little, yeah. As I got older, he was just like, you know, he was very much encouraging, like, make sure you do what you want to do. Yeah. Don't just do this because you think you have to do it.

Like, he was very supportive of me getting involved in the arts and doing, you know, pursuing my dreams. That's good. What did he want to do? What was his druthers? He was interested in philosophy. Oh, really? And political science.

And he wanted to go to the New School in New York. That was his dream. Oh, really? In political science. And he wanted to go to the New School in New York. That was his dream. Oh, wow. But, you know, so he still pursues that kind of stuff. And he is always, you know, reading, I wouldn't say self-help, but like kind of new, he's like, you know, new age kind of. Oh, really? New age kind of. Yeah, yeah.

Well, his interests in that. Yeah, yeah. I would say he's fully- Well, did he have like a specific, like, did he have like a specific, like did he want to be a therapist? Did he want to be a teacher? What do you think? I mean, or is it just sort of nebulous? Yeah, I don't, he was nebulous.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, he might be able to answer it better than me. Right. But- Well, why the fuck isn't he here? Yeah, so he'd be a great- I got the wrong Heidecker. He'd be a great interview.

On my mom's side, they were even more, they were strict blue collar. He was, my grandfather on my mom's side was a crane operator, World War II vet. Like, you know, basically a union guy. Yeah. Working building bridges and, you know, the building roads. Retired fairly, you know, retired when you were supposed to retire. 60, 65. And was a janitor at JCPenney's after he retired.

Because he wanted to keep working. Yeah, keep working. And yeah, so church going, strict Protestant, believed the earth was created in six days, that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Watched the televangelist, but also very funny, loved music, loved comedy, loved to laugh, loved joking and stuff. So, yeah. How many?

Pretty roots, you know, normal suburban, but nothing remarkable. How many kids? Do I have? No. In your family. Oh, yeah. Siblings, I should have said. Sure.

You just said how many kids. I know, I know. It was not a very good question. It was not phrased very well at all. I have a younger sister. A younger sister? Yeah, she's nine. Yeah, yeah.

And were you a good- She's nine. She missed that one. No. She's nine. I did miss that one. Yeah. No, when you said nine, I thought nine years younger.

Yeah. How many years younger is she? About three, three and a half. Yeah. No, when you said nine, I thought nine years younger. Yeah. How many years younger is she? About three, three and a half. Yeah. Were you a kind big brother? Not according to the Super 8 films I've seen. There was a lot of throwing. I like that you act like they were filmed separate from your experience.

My memories. Like that you're starring in a movie you didn't know you were in. I think we got along pretty well. I mean, we were really young. You know, you do the classic pushing her down the hill and that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Pretty good. Setting her on fire.

Yeah. I remember a dynamic in our house when I was a little older, when I was in high school and I was having trouble in school and I was just having discipline issues and these things that people like us, I don't know about you, but you certainly go through. She was a fierce defender of me to my parents. Oh, really? She would come down and she had sort of like a litigious kind of lawyerly kind of vibe. And she was very good at school. I have a daughter that's like, I don't know if she's going to be a lawyer, but oh my God, everything's a fucking negotiation. Right, right, right. There's times when I just say, this is if she's going to be a lawyer, but oh my God, everything's a fucking negotiation.

Right, right, right. Just, there's times when I just say, this is what it's going to be, and no negotiating. Yes. Negotiations are closed. She would come down. I'm going to be the dad for once. Yeah, she would passionately. You have to, he needs the creative space to be able to express himself.

I mean, I don't know. How old was she? I don't know. She was, if I was in, she was probably in like eighth grade or something. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's really great. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I remember a few moments like that. But mostly we looked out for each other. But we had different, you know, we were just different enough in temperament and in interest and in age that we had our own little things going. Right, right. Things going. Were you like an outwardly funny kid? Because there is a difference in knowing you. like you are a fairly sensitive, thoughtful person.

In person. In person. Right. And then you're this very, very silly person in kind of your comedy persona. Right, right. Was that, did that exist in your youth? It's funny. Yes.

I mean, I felt like I've maybe mellowed out a little bit in the past several years. Now that I get to do it as a job. Yeah. And I do it sort of, I can, I have less interest in maybe being a wise ass. Yeah. In my normal going to the supermarket life, you know, maybe. I definitely had like ADD sort of vibes as a kid. I was just super hyper and super talkative and blah, you know,

just super wild, I guess. Yeah, yeah. But nothing like, you know, I think I was fairly respectful. You know, I never got in serious trouble. I was not in boys' school. It was that kind of thing. It was manageable. Yeah, no, I was a smartass, but the thought of actually getting in real trouble was just

the worst thing in the world. Exactly. I stayed in line for the most part. But I still do love, I mean, depending on who I'm with, if I'm with people that I really enjoy the humor of, somebody like Greg or Eric or people I'm close with, it's all joking. It's all constant. I was at a thing the other night. It was like – it was one of these neighborhood – I'm in Glendale, so it was one of these like, come over and meet this guy that's running for city council. Oh, yeah. One of those kind of deals where you feel like I'm a grown-ale, so it was one of these, like, come over and meet this guy that's running for city council. Oh, yeah.

One of those kind of deals where you feel like I'm a grown-up, you know? I'm important. There's wine and cheese and writing a check. And a friend of mine, and you know him very well, too. I won't out him. But a very, very funny person I'm very good friends with was there as well. And I got there late. And as soon as I got there, the two of us were looking at each other like we're in church.

Yeah. And we're the altar boys, and we can't laugh or we're going to get slapped. Yeah. And it was still that feeling of like everything, every question that's being asked, I want to make a joke about. And I am like going nuts. Yeah, yeah. And I'm looking at him. I am like going nuts. Yeah, yeah. And I'm looking at him, and I'm like, you better not say anything.

And we talked about it afterwards. Like, did you have that feeling of like, I want to goof on this whole thing? Yeah, yeah. So I still have that all the time. Yeah, yeah. All the time. I had one of the greatest experiences of my life was I've listened to Howard Stern for years, been a fan, been on the show a number of times. And Jimmy Kimmel is a friend. When Jimmy was married, whatever that was, four or five years ago, just ended up sitting next to Howard at the wedding ceremony outside in Ojai.

Beautiful day. And he is the same way exactly that right just wants to fucking be a smart ass we were whispering right giggling yeah the entire fucking wedding and it was just so thrilling yeah to know that this guy that's he's such a hugely influential, powerful person still is just a fucking asshole that wants to just make fun of people. Shit on everything. Yeah, just shit on everything and be a smart ass and giggle. The funny story in our family that reminds me of that growing up was there was neighbors of my grandparents, and the dynamic between the two families was the neighbors next to my grandparents and the, the, the dynamic between the two families was that the neighbors next to

my grandparents were always, they were the, everything was a little better. They had the better car, they had the better, whatever. They were a little, they were a little braggadocious about, about everything. And it was just a thing that we all knew. And it was years of that. And it was kind of an in-joke and everything. And we were, my family, and I was like in high school, like a 10th grade or something. And we were sitting at the Arby's having dinner, which is like a thing. We'd go to Arby's like once a week. Sure.

You know, it's like not exactly, it's fast food. Believe me, it's fast food, but it's like a little, it's like one step. Your mom probably felt a little better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, but the one of the neighbors came over and the backstory is one of, their son-in-law had died in a motorcycle accident. Okay. Terrible. And the, one of the members of the family came over to our table to say hi.

And my mom said something about, so sorry to hear about your son-in-law. And he started going in about how the parking lot was so full for the funeral and that people had to park across the street and how big the deal of the funeral was. And my parents, I watched my parents start losing it and start crying, like doing that thing where they start- Like stifling laughter. Like, I can't believe this is happening. My parents are losing it.

Yeah. And yet my mom had to just lie about like, they gave so much butter on this mashed potato. And it was like such a fun thing to watch them like be in that position. Like, I can't – this guy – and he's not picking up on it. Right, right. But I love that fear, that like tension of like, I can't laugh. If I laugh, I'm fucked. Especially when it's like somebody just being like, holy shit, the rap on that guy.

And now he's just like. He's delivering. Like doing it way, like just in a way that you would never, like that you'd be like, tone it down. Yeah, the overflow. Too much of you. I always remember the overflow parking for this funeral so you um you're very were you was it a musical house because you

were a very musical person you know yeah my uh my grandmother on my mom's side could uh play by ear she could play the piano which was such a great magic trick if you ever see people. I mean, it's not, I guess it's not so, from when I was a kid, it was like, oh my God, you could play her a song and she could sit at the piano and kind of figure it out without reading, you know, she didn't know how to read music. Wow. So, but she just played Amazing Grace and church songs and stuff. And she played in a very, almost like Liberace, you know, where she would up at the top, just kind of harp style playing. Right, right.

All on the black keys. And so everything was in F sharp for any music nerds. But so I learned that. We always were singing. My dad loved music. He loved, you know, classic rock. He was big Beatles and Stones fan. He had all those records.

So I listened to all that stuff and loved all that stuff very early in my life. I remember my dad getting the Beatles 67 to 70. The red and the blue ones. Yeah, the red and the blue ones. The blue one in particular. And there was about a month or so of me and my sister laughing and thinking it was silly, silly music, especially Lucy in the Sky with Time. Yes. And then something clicked. It was like, oh, I want to know more about this. And I just went down deep into the rabbit hole of

Beatleology and buying the books. And then that turns you into, I think it's such a gateway into all kinds of music. Absolutely. Right? Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, because it's referential. Beatles are so referential to so many different things. Yes, backwards and forwards. Yeah.

So, yeah. And then I played, I always think like so many comedians, people in comedy come from music. A lot of cross-pollination. Absolutely. Because music, you can get a band together in your neighborhood and you can actually produce something. You could put on a show, you could make a demo. It's affordable to do that for most people.

And it's a lot harder to put on a, to make a film or something, you know, to make a sketch show or, and maybe your, your humor, I don't know, your humor isn't quite baked in there yet, but you can play four chords or something. Yeah. So I find a lot of people I talk to, oh yeah, I had a band, but that didn't work out. So then I got into acting or I got in. So. I think, I think a basic thing people I talk to, oh, yeah, I had a band, but that didn't work out. So then I got into acting.

Yeah. So. I think a basic thing, too. It's weird. They're weirdos. Yeah. It's like, and you're all weirdos, and it's kind of like these are the being funny in class or being funny around, you know, that's one way. And then there's also, too, like playing music is another way to just be creative and

expressive and be a weirdo. And you break one way or the other, you know? And it's social. It's something to do that, you know, before you can really drink or do anything independently, you can get together with people in a basement with Gorilla amps, which, you know, is little 10- inch amps and cheap guitars he got for christmas and what did you start guitar was that your first and at what age i i think it was right around the same time we had a piano in the house so i think i

played piano a little bit yeah and then i got a guitar and i had two friends my cousin who was my age and also my kind of my best friend growing up, and another guy who oddly both just texted me last night about a record that we loved when I was this age called Spilt Milk by a band called Jellyfish. They independent of each other? No, it was like a group text. But I hadn't heard from him in years. Yeah, yeah. So it's gotten me nostalgic. But yeah, we, they, they were in like, the scene in Allentown in the early 90s for guys

like us was hardcore and punk. Yeah. That was kind of what people, my. And you're 16, 17? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wasn't into it. I didn't like it. Yeah. But everybody else? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wasn't into it. I didn't like it. But everybody else did.

Yeah, yeah. These guys all knew power chords. They knew bar chords and stuff. So we all taught each other bar chords and power chords. And you just knew your pussy Beatles bullshit. Yeah, I knew my jangly acoustic guitar folk stuff. So yeah, I liked playing with it. So they were into that. but then we were also,

I kind of turned them on to like Pink Floyd and the Beatles and, and the psychedelic Jimi Hendrix and that kind of stuff. So then we started making that kind of music together, which is really bad. You know, when six, when 16 year olds, 16 year old white suburban men get together to make stripping music without having experienced any of that. It's very embarrassing. Yeah. But it's fun, too. And do you start getting gigs? Do you start?

We did play shows. Yeah, we played shows. And how does that happen? Is it like an all-ages club? Is it somebody's party? It was mostly this one place called Scarlet's. It was an all-ages club in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania that had all-ages nights. I don't know if it was always all-ages, but they did have these all-ages.

From what I remember, it looked like any old rock club. Yeah. But I guess they just didn't serve alcohol. Yeah. I know they didn't. That was a very common thing in, you know, like 70s, 80s. And I know, like, I've heard Stephen Van Zandt talk about, like, when he was a kid, they just were, there was, you could do that all the time. Yeah.

There were just all these all-ages clubs because that was kind of the notion of being a teenager who was into music and having the Beatles have just, you know, Elvis and then the Beatles. And it was all just so new and like, yeah, let's have a place for teens to go to listen to live music. Yeah. So we had a couple of bands. I don't think we ever had a, we had a drummer once, but most of the time we didn't have a drummer. Wow. So it's really just the two guitars and a bass, and we sang our songs. Yeah, yeah. It was probably awful. Imagine seeing a 16-year-old play. All originals or subcovers?

Yeah, mostly originals. Oh, wow. That does sound awful. I think. I mean, grown-up originals are usually. 80% of the time you go somewhere and it's like grown-up originals that people don't know. We did a Beatle. We did Rain by the Beatles.

Yeah. That was one of our standards. But yeah. But somebody just texted me. They said somebody was in Milwaukee. And they said, oh, ask Tim about Napoleon Bonaparte. And it took me a second. I don't know what that means.

And he says, she was at one of these shows. And you had a song called Napoleon, Bonaparte. She remembers this night of you playing this song. I couldn't tell you anything else about it, but we had some kind of funny song. And there was some- And you don't remember the song at all. It's a vague recollection. I just remember singing Bonaparte.

So we had like a- So like the next year, we had a slightly sillier band. We started introducing comedy. And I think, I can't remember who we would have been influenced by. But there were some funny, maybe Ween, probably. Yeah, Ween. Yeah. Maybe Fish, even.

Yeah. I never stayed with that. I didn't become a Fish head. Yeah, yeah. But I think they had some funny music early on. Yeah. Whimsical, absurd. Yeah.

Now, do you start playing that music out of because it's what you want to do or because it's kind of an audience is responding to it? Oh, no audience was responding to it. To anything. We were not picking up on any cues from an audience. I think we were just – we'd get shows like very sporadically. Yeah. And then the last band I was in, we had a drummer in high school.

It was about as professional a band as we could have. Yeah. We played more shows. We made a demo in the studio. And it was like 90s, like Gin Blossoms had come. Just like folky rock. I wouldn't say, I don't know why I said Gin Blossoms. One of the songs reminds me of that, I guess.

But there were singer-songwriter books. But I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like three-minute pop songs kind of guys. And that was as big as that ever got. It was like, well, you you, you go to like the bookstore and buy the book of like how to get a, how to tour as a band or something. You know, like there's like that section of the bookstore that's like, you know, music and film and stuff. And sent the demos around and that was it.

Is there any cachet among your peers as being in a band? Like, are you cool at school? At school? The thing that was cool at school for me was not that. It was that there was a closed circuit morning TV show that me and my friends ran. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it was like the morning news and weather, basically.

But we were allowed to do kind of whatever we wanted within bounds. And so we would put on little sketches and do stupid stuff. Wow. And that you could see right away, like within a couple weeks, I was the guy at school who was on TV every morning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And doing our funny stuff. And I literally became the homecoming king of my high school. Because of that.

Because of that. Yeah, yeah. I didn't campaign for it or anything like that. Right, right. And you weren't, did you play football? I was the quarterback. Oh, were you really? No, I'm just kidding.

No, I don't know. I know, I know. It's funny to me. Because usually homecoming is football. I was either elected as a joke. That's one theory. Or that those other football people. A protest?

Just like a prank. Fuck this nonsense. Like a prank on me. Or it was just that canceling out of those other people all belittling themselves. And I was like the last man. Yeah. And I was prom king, which I, you know, I was intensely aware because of my broken brain. Everyone who had been on homecoming court in the fall was disqualified. So it's like, I was like, and it was five, I think, like five boys and five girls. And so like, even as I was being prom king, I was like, oh, great, I'm sixth most popular.

Just cancel the whole thing at that point if it's getting controversial. I know, exactly. I was just such a dick. I was like, I didn't even put on the fucking ricotta cheese top prom. I didn't go to the prom because I was in a play in the local theater group. I felt very cool. Wow. I can't go to the prom. I'm in a play in the local theater group. I felt very cool. Wow. I can't go to the prom.

I'm in a play. Did you have a girlfriend that was, like, disappointed that you didn't take her? No. No, I don't. I think that my girlfriend maybe at the time didn't go to my school or something. Oh, I see. It was not something where I didn't have one. I mean, I don't know.

I didn't. I had girlfriends. Right. Believe me. Oh, I understand. I mean, let's not get the wrong idea here. The chronology is probably so hard to follow because there were so many. Just a cavalcade of beautiful faces.

Yeah, one after the other. Well, now, do you think I'm going to be a musician? Do you think I'm going to be an actor? Or do you just think I'm going to college and figuring it out? So the way I remember it is I was always doing theater. I was doing theater i mean listen i was in a play i couldn't go to the prom i've already jesus christ yeah you're like fucking i'm and so you went to juilliard right yeah well there was a thing in pennsylvania

called the governor's school that was like a summer program for theater and music and stuff that was everyone was saying like oh well you, well, you've got to do this because you're the theater kid at this Catholic school that I was at. You're a shoo-in. And I had this mentor teacher who was involved in the local theater, and she worked with me to audition for this, and I was going to do that the see the freshman year of high school before my freshman year of high school and i auditioned for it and i didn't get in excuse me

and i was like still hard for you you almost i cried almost oh did you i did i was really bummed you were just burping now i was for the audience yeah i was burping which i will do throughout the broadcast. Now you put a lot of pressure on it. You better fucking burp. I promise. Yeah, yeah. I made a choice. At the same time, I was getting into film.

I was getting into Woody Allen movies big time. I remember my aunt had all his movies on VHS tape. Yeah. She had like the maroon. It was like a whole series that they put out. I was getting into that. maroon there's like a whole series yeah yeah put out you know i was getting into that i was getting into sctv and uh you know albert brooks movies a little you know spy all these great comedies right i just started falling in love with this yeah the comedies that you if you're serious about

comedy as a kid you start looking at either you love it or it's no of no interest yes yes i loved it and i thought well i i don't want to be i thought wouldn't it be smarter to go to film school than to go to acting school because i felt my confidence in acting and and and just leaving it up to auditions and leaving it up to that kind of thing felt very tenuous. Yeah, yeah. So I thought, well, I could learn a trade. I could learn. I could also be looking at Woody Allen being like, I could make my own movies. I could be in my own movies and do my own things.

I had that thought. And so I wanted to go to film school and looked at NYU. I was too scared to go to NYU. I didn't apply. I just said, I don't want to, this seems too crazy. But then went to, found Temple University in Philly, which had a pretty decent film school, and went there. It was a state school, so it was easy to get into. How far from home is that?

An hour and a half or so. So it's far enough. It was big. I mean, Philadelphia is a big city, of course. Allentown is not. And we didn't go there. We didn't go to Philly. We went there like once a year for whatever.

So it wasn't like down the street. It was another place. And it's daunting probably too. It's intimidating. It's scary. Yeah. Temple University is in North Philly, which is the ghetto in Philadelphia. And it's a little better now.

But when I went there, it was like burned out row homes. Wow. And like dime stores and just wackos and shopping carts and guns around. The campus was there. That was across the street from our dorms. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? It was like real.

So you sort of stayed there. Stayed on campus. Yeah, I mean, we went downtown and did stuff. We got used to it pretty quickly, but it was a pretty big shift in my life. Yeah. Is there, where do you live? Do you live off campus then, or do you just stay in the dorms? First year on campus, in the dorms. And then second year and onward lived down, lived in South Philly.

Oh, okay. So yeah, yeah. But in that first year, my third floor dorm down, about five doors down was a man named Eric Wareheim. Oh, wow. dorm down about five doors down was a man named eric werheim oh wow and um and then another very close friend who's now a pretty successful dp but three or four of a very very very close longtime friends were on that floor wow and that's how i knew them and where was eric from pennsylvania too yeah he was from outside of Philly, a little closer. Did you meet each other like right off the bat? Pretty early on.

He were both in film school, so we were in the same like introductory classes. Oh, wow. And again, a case of like I remember being in a big lecture hall where you're learning about, know nanooka the north yeah like that right right right and uh and us sitting in the back and we had already kind of like we were already the weirdos you could tell we were the weird kids even in film school yeah i had two fucking i went to film school i everything you basically said was was me yeah i mean i grew up an hour west of chicago right might as well have been three hours west of chicago yeah uh except the difference is i went two years to university of

illinois to just basic liberal arts before i switched into film school but it was the same thing i wanted to act but i just was it was that seemed more humble you you know, and more just sensible. Yeah, you get a communications degree or something like that. Yeah, and I mean, and at the time it was very, they were very formative movies, and especially Chicago became a very, like a hotbed of film production for a while because they had a- John Hughes.

Yeah, exactly, Blues Brothers, you know, and there was also a movie, there was a movie called Thief that James Caan was in that Michael Mann directed. Mm-hmm. Very, very formative for me because A, I loved it, and B, it was all, I knew all these places. Right. And it was like, okay, you can do this. Right. Like, there's, it's not, you know, you're not going to be James Caan,

but you could be the guy hanging the lights. Yeah, you could be the guy that, you know, sets fire to the cars. There's jobs there. So that's, I did that thing, but I'm just, you know, but it's very similar too. I mean, I wasn't one of the, there were much artsier kids than me. Well, and I was actually, I hate to compare myself to a great film character in the history of speaking of John Hughes, but I was kind of the Ferris Bueller type

guy where I was kind of friends with a little, all the different pockets. I wasn't firmly, I wasn't a goth kid, but I probably got along with some goth kids. I was kind of normal. You can see I'm kind of just like a normal guy on the outside. And by Ferris Bueller, you mean you were a sociopath who only cared about himself. Right. But you know, he was kind of popular at school, but he didn't fit. Yeah. Yeah. No. And I was, I was in a similar, you know, I was like, I didn't, you know, like I didn't have the black fingernails. Right. And coming from a small town and meeting the kids with black fingernails, it was very daunting.

And then you realize, oh, they're just fucking kids, you know. Well, I remember early in that college experience, my friend Jared, he was the guy that had all the weed. And he was into ska, and he was like a very big personality and still is. He's really funny. Really one of the funniest people I know. And we got out on some, and there were a lot of African-Americans, and especially African-American basketball players on our floor. Who played on the temples. On temples basketball players on our floor. Who played on the, on Temple's. On Temple's basketball team.

Yeah, yeah. And there were just a lot of jocks and a lot of like, just intimidating people for us to be around. Yeah. We were kind of weirdos. Yeah. You know, we felt we were kind of weird. And I remember at some like fire alarm thing when we're all outside, I was feeling maybe a little intimidated or just a little like insecure about being in college and just being away from home and stuff. And he was like, dude, they're all fucking scared of us.

We're the freaks. Don't you know? Like they're looking at us like they're freaked out by us. Yeah, yeah. We don't have to worry about it. We should do whatever we want. And he was all like that. And I was like, oh, you're right.

We're like, people are intimidated by us because of how like we're just being goofballs. Yeah, yeah. I just remember that. I don't know how true it is. Yeah, it is weird, your perspective on things. I still, I mean, I played sports. I'm a large person. I was never really bullied or anything. There were, I mean, there were a couple, a couple of kind of bullies that were just assholes to me,

incidentally, but there was never any long campaign. Yeah. Yeah. I still, you know, to like go to a sports bar while people are watching football, I still feel like I'm going to get a wedgie.

Yeah. You know, I still, it's still, there's still this like feeling of like, oh, gosh, these guys are really male. Dude, I have it. I mean, I have it today. Like you think about even today coming here where it's like you're driving onto the Warner Brothers lot, which is where we are.

You're doing the Conan O'Brien show here at this studio. I have a feeling of like, what am I doing here? You're a guy that I, if you look back at like high school, finding comedy, it's like you're there for me on TV. You and Conan were the guys where I was like, what do you love? I would write Conan, Letterman, Simpsons. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I still feel that stuff never goes away. Yeah. And you're always like this feeling of if I'm auditioning for something or if I'm going to do something where there are stakes involved, it's still incredibly stressful and anxiety-ridden. But I mask it pretty well. Yeah. I guess.

Oh, I know. I still, I mean, I'm used to being on the Warner Brothers lot, but I still get, it's still fun. It's never not fun. Yeah, it's crazy. To walk by fake. Where they did Casablanca or whatever. That or even just fake buildings. Yeah.

Just like, this street looks like New York and it's fake. Yeah, yeah. Well, when we came out to LA, we were, and I think I've never gotten over this feeling of being like the new kids. Yeah. Because what Eric and I were doing was so weird and I guess so disruptive or whatever.

And we weren't really part of any kind of group. Yeah. And we're not part of the UCB. We're not part of any of these little conclaves. Yeah. There was no real community. You were your own little conc community. Your own little conflict. Your own thing.

Yeah, yeah. But we did, our only connection really was through sort of the Mr. Show gang because Bob had kind of discovered us. Bob Odenkirk had discovered us. Explain that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, we had, Eric and I had made all these shorts together in college,

after college mostly. Where were you? Did you stay in Philly? Yeah, yeah. I was in Philly for a couple of years, but then I moved to New York. And are they online? Is that where people are finding them? Some of them, well, not really.

At this time? Yeah. This is really stuff wasn't going up online at this point. This is 2002. Yeah. So there wasn't, there's my second burp. All right. You weren't lying.

There wasn't YouTube. YouTube was until 2006. Okay. I would have never. Yeah. I just happened to know that. Yeah. But there was, you could put stuff up with quick time and there'd be little files that

you could watch on our website. Yeah. But mostly it was still DVDs and VHS tapes that you could send to people and people would watch them. Yeah, yeah. That's how we did it. That's how life was. We can almost hardly imagine that.

I know. And especially like in the 90s, there was a whole culture of weird tapes that you'd get. And that like, having been in film, I have such crazy, weird shit. Like there was the best one. And then people would do live shows of them. And play them, yeah. Yeah.

Like there's one, the Todd Weeks tape. Do you know Todd Weeks? Yeah, I know the one. It's a completely crazy, weird, probably on the spectrum guy who does in his basement martial arts. Oh, I didn't. Martial arts demonstrations of like, you know, watch this. I'm going to, this is 60 punches in 10 seconds. Right, right.

And then he does it. It's not 60 punches in 10 seconds, you know. Well, we were just, I was just watching that Eddie Murphy Dolomite movie. Yeah. In high school, we watched those Dolomite movies. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, how did I know? How did I know even to check that out? I know, I know. I donomite movie. Yeah. In high school, we watched those Dolomite movies. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, how did I know even to check that out? I know, I know.

I don't even know. Right. But we loved it, and we laughed because you could see the boom in the shot. Yep, yep. So that's how we all – but anyways, with Bob, I was sitting at work in New York. I had some job as an assistant in a big office building, you know, wasting what I felt was wasting my life. And Eric and I would make stuff and chat on Instagram, not Instagram, on IM and make videos and then figure out like, what are we going to do? Like what Eric was shooting a wedding,

who's doing wedding photography and videography and stuff. And I just went on the internet and was looking for people that I identified with that we could send our tapes to. And got kind of lazy with it. I think I sent it to Smigel. I think I sent it to Conan, whatever that address was in New York. Yeah, yeah. I sent it to Odenkirk because we loved Mr. Show. Yeah. And also I felt like, I bet, if you remember in 2001, Cross was big.

Yes. He had that stand up. Yep. I thought, what if, maybe Bob's not getting the love right now from people. Right? A little bit. Yeah, a little of that. So you were calculating, you know, that's good showbiz right there.

But I also, we were also just, we were such big fans of him. Yeah. And anyways, he watched it and called me on my phone, on my cell phone. Oh, wow. And was like, who are you guys? What's going on? This is amazing. Who are you? That's my Bob.

It's pretty good. Whoa, it's so good. But it was a little of that. I was like, shit, I can't, I can't believe this, you know? And he was like, who are you? Who are you with?

Like, what's your deal? We're like, we're just a couple of friends from college making videos. And, and then he got more and more, he kind of kept in touch with us and helped set us up with a couple of meetings and,

and just, you know, you know, Bob, he's a, he's a very like, he's a nurturing, like he's really, he's a very like, he's a nurturing, like he's really, he's a fan, he's a lifer.

He has many thoughts on what's funny and why it's funny. And he's kind and, and, and it also is like, it's a cause to him. Yeah. Like comedy is a cause to him. Yeah. Yeah. And so he took us under his wing. He really believed in us.

He showed us to some people. And some people were like, well, why don't you get these guys on a writing staff or something? No, no, no, no, no. Don't let them learn any bad habits, you know, like that kind of thing. What a nice thing to say to you, too. I mean, because Jesus Christ, he's so right. Yeah, it's true. And it was crazy.

If you look at our early, early stuff, it's not all there yet. I mean, it's a mess. Why would it be, though? Why would it be? Exactly. So it took a lot for him to, I think, see that there was something different there that could grow into something else. But I guess I started saying that because coming out here, there was that class of people that was older than us and had been through the works and had gone about things a different way. And I always feel like the

new kid in town because of that. And then there's, now that I'm 43 and I've been doing this for 15 years, there are younger people now that are doing stuff that I can try to be cool to or not make them feel bad. But, you know, it's a different feeling than, you know, seeing somebody like Mary Lynn Ricecap at a bar and being like, hi, I'm working with Bob Odenkirk. And she's like, who gives a shit? She's such a bitch. No, I'm kidding.

She's a wonderful person. And she really is. I'm not. Yeah, yeah. No, it was just like kidding. She's a wonderful person. And she really is. I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was just like the feeling of being the freshman. Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and especially too, you guys really are being plucked from obscurity and you're not being plucked from obscurity by a mogul. You know what I mean? Bob,

it's Bob and Bob is respected, but Bob is also like, Bob is the guy from that weird sketch show on HBO that most people are puzzled by. Right, right, right. He's not a huge mover and a shaker. Especially then too. I mean, now you could, maybe he's got a different perception. Oh, of course. Now, absolutely. But in those days it was, you know, you, you know. It didn't give you anything.

No, not, not in terms of like the people that actually signed checks. Right. You know. Yeah. I mean, he could definitely get you in front of people that you respect. Right. But not necessarily people that could make huge things happen. Yes.

Can't you tell my loves's a-growing? So you come out here, and are you doing live shows? No, we came out here with a cartoon with Adult Swim. They bought Tom Goes to the Mayor. Oh, wow. As a – I guess they – I totally – yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah.

You were one of the few people I don't think that were on it. I don't know why. I'm a dick. Yeah. I got a were one of the few people I don't think that were on it. I don't know why. I'm a dick. Yeah. I got a real high price. Yeah. I don't remember, but I'm sure we probably- What year was that?

2000. Maybe you were still in New York. It was, I don't know, 2004. No, no. I was here, but I might've just been, you know, I don't remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't remember. But we had all kinds of people on there.

And, but yeah, we got a development deal when we were on the East Coast to do a pilot. Basically, this is how nuts we were about not knowing the business. I think it was a $15,000 development deal to write a pilot. Not necessarily to make. You know how it goes. Sure, sure. You don't even know if you're going to make the show. But there was talk of like, listen, this is kind of a step that they have to do.

They're very interested in it. But with that money, that splits two ways. And we said, we're moving to California. Wow. That's hilarious. Which is not something to buy a house with. I know. It gets you basically out here.

I moved out here for Cabin Boy and I made, to buy a house with. I know. It gets you basically out here. But the idea was – I moved out here for Cabin Boy and I made – to do Cabin Boy. And that was like, all right. Yeah. This is my – I got a job in a movie. I'm moving out. And that was, I think – I think it was about 15 grand. Yeah.

You know, that like all told. But I – Over – spread over, you know, three months of production. And within – it's vaporized. I mean, also, too, I was coming here owing money. Sure. It just is gone. But I remember years and years, I think even as a young – when I originally maybe thought about going to UCLA or I thought about doing – going to California after college, I had this thing in me that was like, I don't – that's the one place I don't want to go unless I'm asked to go or invited to go.

Yeah. It felt too intimidating. We did an internship out here in college. Eric and I both spent the summer out here. We both felt. For whom? I interned for Working Title Pictures. Remember them?

Yep. Or they still do. I picked up the phone. John Malkovich called one day. It was exciting. Yeah, yeah. And I also interned on a $300,000 horror movie starring Seth Green. Oh, wow.

I say $300,000 because I remember just eventually they had to shut down production because they ran out of money. Yeah. We were working out of the producer's apartment. So I got both sides of the business that summer. And also you're out of money. Yeah. We were working out of the producer's apartment. You know, so I got both sides of the business that summer. And also you're obsessed with money. I can't. Everything is about it. Everything is.

Whatever the dollar amount attached, that's all you're about. But it did feel like, I don't want to be, no offense to grips, but I don't want to like work through the grip lighting, you know. Yep. I had done some work. I had done know. Yep. I had done some work. I had done props. Yep. And she's like, this is, I might as well just work anywhere.

Like, I don't, like, it's a little sort of a counterpoint to the idea of, like, I can just work around movies, like what you were saying about Thief. I got a taste of that and said, this feels like I'm so close to it, but also very far away from it. Right, right, right. Because I want to be creative, and it's a little hard to be creative when yeah that when i started when i started being a pa on commercials i realized that the people that made the creative decisions so and which was like agency because it's

commercials agency people uh and directors and none of the directors ever gave anybody coffee no they all were like either agent ad agency people or they had been editors at places. And I just was like, okay, this, you know. And I was, I could have been it up. I did props too. And I enjoyed doing that. It was like fun work that I have a facility for. But I, but yeah, it was the same thing.

It's like, I'm never. I'm not going to be good at this. My creative decisions are going to be like, okay, they want a couch. I can give them five choices or three choices. Dude, I have so many. From just doing props on one movie and then getting hired on another movie and getting fired from that second movie because I'm not good at doing props. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so many of those.

Because I'm not good at doing props. Yeah, yeah. And so many of those pre, also, this is probably your story too, pre-internet, sort of pre-internet. You're like. Yellow pages. Fuck am I going to find, like, you know, camping gear? Where? I don't know.

Like, just that kind of stuff. I had to, in the middle of July, prop out a ski lodge. And they wanted all birch log furniture. Fucking in 1990 you know I don't know. It would have been like 1989. I got the, can I tell you

one? Yeah, yeah. I'm here for that. I'm sure we're long. No, it's alright. Not at all. My first... I was hired as the assistant prop master on a romantic comedy called Kimberly. I think you can see it, right? It was Sean Astin and all these people.

And the main prop master was a guy, I shouldn't say his name, but it's the best name. It's the best... I don't care. I kind of feel like I'd hate for this guy to hear this because it's not a great uh anyway his name was don something okay and um he was a kind of a weirdo uh like he was in he made just basically horror movies up to this point like a small horror

movies like a horror fan kind of guy. He got this job as the prop master on this romantic comedy, which just, again, the props just meant like, you know, get lighting and get things for apartments and, you know, it was nothing like, it wasn't a genre. Yeah, it wasn't a genre thing. It was just life. It was normal life. And it was leading up to this day, to the first day of shooting. And Don, I was just running out getting stuff for Don and picking stuff up and organizing it and all this stuff. And first day of shooting comes, and somebody needed rollerblades for the scene. We forgot to get rollerblades. I get sent to Walmart to get rollerblades at 7 in the morning.

It's a stressful day. Things are not – people are unhappy with some of the props. I remember the details. I know there was a stressful bad day for Don. Yeah, yeah. Right? Next day I show up to work, 7 in the morning. I start showing up.

People are kind of – you can see people kind of confused. The art department is confused. Where's Don? We can't get a hold of Don. Don should have been here a half hour ago. Have you heard from Don? Where's Don? Where's the prop truck?

We don't know where the prop truck is. Prop truck should have been here. It has everything on it. Yeah. Finally, about an hour, whatever, goes by. Somebody finds out Don has left the prop truck in front of the production office with a note that says, I'm out. I can't do this. I'm out. I can't do this. I'm out. I'm sorry. I quit. It's too stressful. And I apologize. Goodbye.

Wow. And they're like, well, now I'm the prop master because I was the assistant prop master. He just put his hands up and said, I'm done. Oh, wow. So I got through that movie. With a note. With a note on the windshield parked illegally in front of this building in Center City. And probably with the keys in it. Yeah, exactly.

Or something, yeah. So then I managed to get through that movie. Then somebody else came in to help and everything. But then I got hired on another movie called Jesus' Son. Remember this movie with Billy Crudup? I do, I do. It was shot in Philly. And I was about a week and a half on that

job, and that movie was a period piece in the 70s with a lot of drug use. It was a druggy kind of movie. And after about a week of me trying my best, but not really knowing what I was doing, trying to get 70s

period, 70s stuff and drug paraphernalia. Yeah. Without the internet, without a connection to the art, to the production community in Philadelphia. Yeah. The production designer was just like, dude, I can't, I got to let you go.

I got to bring in somebody that has done this before. Yeah, yeah. And it was hard, but I was like, you're right. This isn't my calling. This isn't what I want to do. Yeah, yeah. And it was hard, but I was like, this isn't my calling. This isn't what I want to do. Yeah, yeah. But it was my idea. So I have like, whenever I'm on something, I see the prop guy,

I feel like a connection to him because I know it's not an easy job. Yeah. None of these are easy jobs. I don't know if it's just the case anymore, but definitely like, definitely in the early 2000s and well and then and then the early night late 80s early 90s the prop guy was the guy with the drugs right like that was like if if people i would not have been that guy when i when i've been on jobs and there have been people that like actors that are drug users and wanted to say like hey are you a drug user if

you're interested in using drugs you should talk to dale right right the prop guy yeah you know like okay you know the guy with the beard yeah well i just remember being like how do i need syringes i need syringes how do i get syringes go open up that production 411 book whatever it was medical supplies call them up. No, we can't help you there. Okay, well, now what? I don't know what to do. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know what to do. You know, I had to prop out a dentist's office once. Yeah. At like age, you know, 22. Make a dentist office yeah all right because i'm gonna break into a dentist office and steal supplies call dental medical supply but do you have dental stuff we rent it to us yeah all right you know and just go and like that one and that one yeah it was kind of fun in a way too because they send you out with a pile

of cash right and you get kind of a contact high of spending $3,000. Right, right. You know, but. Oh, I was terrible at it. Yeah. I didn't like having the receipts. I didn't like. Yeah, yeah.

I was terrible. I mean, I was decent at it. I mean, I'm, but I, it would have eventually, I couldn't have done it forever. Right. Like I said, it would, I would have just kind of, I would have become an alcoholic. You know, I don't think. There is something fun about what I loved was just that it was like going to camp. Yes.

Like making, like in production. Yes. With your crew, the downtime, the in jokes that develop. Yep. You become very quickly, very family. And you put everything on trucks and travel around like you're a little circus. Yeah, yeah. It's great.

Yeah, but no, it is like, it's also a very codependent way to live. Yeah. You can't, it's really hard to be a full-on film professional who works on cruise your whole life and goes and does a movie in manitoba for three months and have any life of your own right that that isn't being completely

put on hold and that was something that was something that became very evident to me early on it's like this is this is a job for people who are looking for a way to not have to worry about their own life. Right. Yeah. You get fed. Yeah. You get absolved of kind of responsibility because it's like, well, look, I can't have anything of my own because I have to do this. It is an insane life that doesn't get talked about a lot is even like the makeup department.

Yeah. You got to be there at 6 in the morning. You're basically there until whenever it's over. Because you got to take that shit off people. And these wonderful people, but their lives are just like insane. Yeah. And a lot of them have families. Yep.

That they don't see for ages and ages. Yeah. Yeah. and ages yeah yeah well so uh the after after the uh the the cartoon that you did does that go right into tim and eric yes yeah yeah pretty much we had the cartoon was one thing we had made uh in our little first reel of things how many episodes was that 30 episodes oh wow so it was like they gave us and they're like 12 minutes yeah they're 11 minutes yeah yeah it was So it was like they gave us the first – And they're like 12 minutes? Yeah, they're 11 minutes. Yeah, yeah. It was a very polarizing show. It was very – But I bet your work is polarizing generally.

Generally. Yeah, yeah. But that first thing is the thing that really goes like people decide that they hate it and they probably never come over to the other side. Yeah, yeah. And then people go like, oh, this is what I've been waiting for. Yeah. So that set that up. And we were getting exhausted by the process of doing that show.

Yeah. It was very hard to make. Even though it doesn't look hard to make, it was a stressful thing to make. And we just wanted to make whatever we wanted to make. We wanted to do a sketch show. That's what was in our hearts. Yeah. make whatever we wanted to make.

We wanted to do a sketch show. That's what was in our hearts. Yeah. So we, Adult Swim was loved, liked us and was liked working with us, but realized you didn't have to make a ton more of these cartoons, you know, you should try doing something else. We pitched the sketch show and they gave, they said, go for it. So we made 50 of those. Wow. And.

I love too, the pitch of that show. What the fuck could it have been? I don't remember. I mean. Like it's a sketch show. That's it. Because it's like that thing was so. We had made.

It's so. Whatever. Truly bizarre. Yeah. And unique you know. But it can't be explained before you do it. Not at all. We had made a video.

There was a thing called video podcasts. Which still I guess you could. You could put up anything up to Apple. You know know and you could put up video files yeah so we did a video podcast it was called tim and eric podcast and it was basically while we were finishing tom goes the mayor it was sort of like a proto awesome show that we could show adult swim and say here's kind of what we want to try to do. It's us hosting it. It goes into commercials and music videos and whatever. It was pretty basic. I think the title of the show originally was, because the end of Tom Goes the Mayor got very depressing.

The subject matter was my character, his sons died. It was all these just like, we were were, as part of my humor anyways, is dark stuff and the absurdity of death and all this stuff. But it was getting us actually depressed. And we were like, let's have fun again. So that was the name of the show, Let's Have Fun Again. And it was like, let's be silly. Let's dance.

Let's have fun again. Let's put on spandex and that kind of attitude. But then everyone said it was a terrible name for a show. Yeah. So we came up with the other name. But yeah, so that kept us in that little family. Same people that made the cartoon basically made the next show. And Adult Swim and everybody was still where we worked.

Because Awesome Show was so unique. And so really, truly, I mean, because I didn't, when did it come out? 2006? Yeah, that sounds about right. I mean, I'm having kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. I'm having kids. So, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.

I'm having kids, so I'm not going out to see comedy. No. I'm not that much aware of, like, you know, all the weird niche videos that are going on. Yeah. So I start hearing about you guys, and I start watching you, and it's just the fucking weirdest sketch. One of the weirdest sketch shows, aside from maybe like Wonder Shows. Was at the same time. So it is like definitely like, and I was just very much struck by it and still struck by the conviction that it must have taken to go.

Because some of the sketches are just, if you, you know, devoid of context or anything, it's just this, some of the sketches are like, the point of this is that it's boring. Right. Or the point of this is that it's ugly. Right. And to have the conviction to know that that's going to work. Right. And was that daunting at the time?

Because it is like such a, you're not, it's not SNL. Right. It's not SCTV. Well, the stakes were so low and the budget was so low that it was very much trial and error. Yeah. And it was very much me, Eric, John Kreisel, Doug Lussenhop, and John Mugar, and Ben Berman. I would say those five or however many people I just mentioned. Yeah. Were aligned in and given money to basically

make something that's 11 minutes. Yeah. And we wrote a bunch of ideas. We had the classic stuff on the board. Right. Here, let's try this song. There was a production element to it that we had to shoot things. We had to make things.

But that it was not going to be structured that this is where the sketch began and ended and this was going to be, you know, we didn't need to do that because we were making the show in the same building from soup to nuts. We were writing it right down the room from where we were editing it. And so the production flow was kind of nonlinear. So we could shoot something and then reshoot it down the hall if we didn't think it was working. Or we could edit it and slice it in half or give footage to Doug and go like, this didn't work the way we thought it would work. Make something.

Make you turn it into something that makes you laugh. Yeah. Surprise us, push it. We only have 11 minutes, so we don't have to, like SNL, you don't have to exist in a sketch for seven minutes to kill 90 minutes of airtime. Right, right, right. You can literally go get to the, cut away all the fat

and get right to what makes us laugh. And it can be 30 seconds or it can be two minutes. Yeah, yeah. And then holistically look at that episode and say like how does it flow from one thing to the other and build it and post and change it and blah blah blah so because because of that nobody there was the adult swim didn't didn't want to know how we were doing this you know they just gave us the money to do it um with some input you know throughout on cuts and on scripts and stuff but and with final and with i think the key i always think the key

we came along at the time when people were editing in final cut pro which was not a big system and shooting on homemade it's like it's almost consumer level, even though it says pro. And shooting on fairly cheap cameras. You didn't, there wasn't the infrastructure of a traditional TV show that slowed things down or made things work a certain way. It was, we're just making this kind of on our own here. And we can make up the rules for how it works.

And yeah, so we just embraced that. And that became the identity of the show. Yeah. One thing that always struck me about this show, and because it frankly made me nervous, was your use of actors that. Were not actors. Were not actors,

but obviously you got them through a casting process. Mostly, yeah. So they were coming to you saying, I'm a performer. Right. They were on the, we like to say they were at the bottom of the pile. Right.

Of the casting headshots, you know. And I often felt like I wasn't sure whether I was laughing at them. Yes. You know what I mean? Because they're very odd people. Absolutely. And many of them are not performers in any traditional sense. Right. You're not like laughing at their performance.

You're kind of laughing at who they are. Yeah, sometimes. performance, you're kind of laughing at who they are. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I wonder, like, if that ever gave you pause. It – Because – There were certain – And I'm not being judgmental here because these people are really fucking funny. And if you're going to – and there is kind of – I always felt there was kind of a brilliance to it in that television in many ways, even like, you know, you can look at like Tom Cruise as part of a freak show because he's not like any other person on earth.

Well, but he's just right because of our value system. He's at one end of it. Yeah. value system he's at one end of it yeah whereas like you know the people that you guys had right they're you know and the notion of exploitation and the notion of like yeah i think you know to be brutal to be totally honest there are certainly probably things i would look at in that show and be like i don't know if i would have necessarily used all of that yeah you know or i wouldn't i might as an older you know just lived longer you know, or I wouldn't, I might as an older, you know, just lived longer. You know, I remember hearing Dana Carvey talk about this, about Chelsea Clinton, this joke

they made about Chelsea Clinton when they were doing Wayne's World on Saturday Night Live. And he was like, you know, you're just, you're moving so quickly and you were just trying to make yourselves laugh. You're trying to make the editors laugh. You're just so in your own little world. You're not thinking too much about how things are being, you know, you just don't have that life experience to perceive how the bit larger impacts of this stuff tend to go. But in general, I think our approach when we were doing that was we were trying to create a holistic world in that show that was genuinely odd and unsettling and uncomfortable. And we didn't want to lean on sketch performers to be in a commercial. I didn't want to lean on young, you know, the joke was like, we didn't want people,

we didn't want 25 year old funny people wearing gray wigs and mustaches doing a back pill commercial or something, you know what I mean? Good instinct. Yeah. And, and also, you know,

coming from like watching Letterman, seeing what, how he dealt with real people with, with, uh, what's his name? Uh, Larry,

Larry, but Melman. Larry Bud Melman. Yeah. And just the comedy of real people and the comedy of the found footage stuff that we talked about earlier. Yeah. Just like people that are genuinely strange. Yeah. And some of that was letting them be themselves. And some of that was sort of manipulating the situation so that they appeared perhaps

more awkward than they would have really are. Right. But also just the, I mean, we felt it was like a victimless crime because most, most of the, almost all these people loved being on the show and wanted to do it over and over and would have, and loved the work. And, and we were, it felt to us like it wasn't jackass. It wasn't like, gotcha on camera.

It was, I was also, Eric and I both made sure that we looked like idiots too. That's what I was going to say is you certainly did not try and make yourselves attractive. Right. No, no. We were, my gut was hanging out and I was bending over. And, you know, so there was a little bit of like and also you know we would say we watch something that's too that feels gross like oh okay so we would we had our own line i guess and other people might see it differently but you know yeah it was all it was always about what what

made us laugh and and the i always thought like the environment we were making it in was always positive and fun. And it was not like – it was no trickery, you know. Yeah, no. It was that kind of thing. No, I just – I bring it up because it was always something that was very striking about the show that made me think about my relationship to making comedy. Right. And to what – you know, the notion of like what is a freak show? And it's all kind of a freak show.

And it's all – and what is exploitation? It's all exploitation. Yeah. I mean these – most of – everybody's putting themselves out there and I'm – people come in and they do what they, they, they do what they do. And it's your, if you're laughing at that, it's on you almost. Yeah. But that's, that's a bit of a cop out. I understand.

Now, now how does Awesome Show run its course? Do you guys just kind of say that's enough? We've, you know. I think it was, we, Eric and I kind of had this opportunity to make a movie. And, and that started with Funny or Die and people saying like, hey, if you have an idea for a movie, come and pitch it to us. And so we started that thing. We thought, well, if we're going to do that, we can't do these things at the same time. We also felt we had run our – we liked the British model of like not making 100 episodes of something.

It's really smart. Yeah. And just say, that's as good, like we're really happy with that show. What if we just stopped and it was like,

that was the. It's such a good taste decision. It felt that way. It just makes, it's just like, yeah, let's stay in it a party too long. You can always go back.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we did make a 10 year special last year and that was fun. It didn't feel like we regretted stopping it felt fun to do it again so it was that it was pretty much that and uh so then we yeah we kind of took time off wrote wrote a movie and made the movie and then did other things yeah now um i want to talk about doing music at At what point do you think I'm going to do music

and I'm going to do music unironically? I'm just going to, you know. Well, Davin Wood, who made a lot of the music for Awesome Show, that we would kind of write together, we found him. He wrote the theme song. He wrote all these great pieces of music for Awesome Show. He's tremendously talented. We got together and started working on a song for the show

that very much sounded like the band. And we immediately knew this wasn't going to fit for the show. Yeah. But I said, well, this is fun. We should do more of this. We should make this kind of music together. Yeah. We started making kind of stuff.

Just for fun. Just for fun. Yeah. Purely for fun. We should do more of this. We should make this kind of music together. We started making kind of stuff. Just for fun. Just for fun. Purely for fun. Because again, with the technology, with things like Logic and a keyboard, you could make pretty much, you can go to a guitar center and spend 500 bucks and have basically like a home recording system. And I just got into it. I got into learning how to make music. And made a bunch of rock, yacht rock kind of music. And we made a couple albums that was basically ironic parody style 70s rock that we loved. But I never felt like I had anything to sing about. I felt stupid singing the real lyrics.

Right, right. About the complexities of marriage or whatever. Yeah, yeah. So, but then I don't know what happened. I stopped working with Davin. I kept writing music. And I had kids. I had a daughter.

Yeah. And we bought a house in Glendale. And I started writing songs that were like not joking. Yeah. But I'd also gotten really into Randy Newman and Warren Zevon and people like that, where I felt like, oh, these guys are not ironic, really. Yeah. But they're still funny.

Yeah. And they're singing about real life not always about their life but some of its political some of its just observational uh the music is great they're i mean i guess warren zivon was singing pretty autobiographically but certainly not randy newman he was telling stories basically. And I felt just really connected to that and thought, well, I could write, I could probably write more about my life, not necessarily feel like it needs to be super serious, but it's not a joke. So that's, I wrote a record kind of about my life. And I felt like I'd earned a little bit.

In Glendale? In Glendale. I felt like I'd kind of earned, I'd lived enough, I'd experienced life so I could maybe talk about my own life at least. And then, yeah, so it was confusing. I mean, my whole career has also been like confusing people in the Andy Kaufman tradition of like, is he serious? People are listening to this now being like, is this all a joke? Is he really talking about, did he do any of what he's talking about? That's not so interesting anymore. I always say like if Andy Kaufman had lived, he probably would have stopped that bullshit, right?

Yes, yes. I honestly. He would have gone like, you know what? I'm tired of this. I know. There's so much Andy, you know, the genius of Andy Kaufman is, and I get it within. But it's, you know, it's the same thing. It's like, you know, the Scarlet Letter.

I get, okay, yeah, at the time. The Scarlet Letter is a fucking yawn. You know what I mean? Jesus Christ, what a boring fucking book. Yeah. And Andy Kaufman, who is, I think a lot of people compare him to the Scarlet Letter. I've never, I've not heard that. I've read some books. like i'm not being invited in unless i am a misanthropist and a sociopath and my thing is like yeah fuck everybody right you know and i and so yeah i agree with you i think eventually

he would have had to have figured something else out yeah or involved as a yeah like the wrestling the wrestling stuff that he did which which is like, I like wrestling. I don't follow it as, but I mean, my whole life I've enjoyed the theater of professional wrestling. And also just this sort of athleticism and whatever. But, and the weirdness of it, like really the working class theater of it. Yeah, yeah. And he was like, he wasn't being a genius. He was just doing what they're all doing. Right, right, right. Like he did nothing. Entered as another character. Yeah, yeah. And he was, like, he wasn't being a genius. He was just doing what they're all doing.

Right, right, right. Like, he did nothing. Just entered as another character. Yeah, there was no meta. And mainly what he was doing was being a wrestling fan. Right. And trading. Being a bad guy.

One of the classic bad guys. Yeah, trading on the coin of being on TV. Right. Into just getting to be. Right. A fucking professional wrestler for a minute. Right. Just like any wrestling fan would do.

Right. But yeah, I, you know, I do But yeah, I do think nihilism, I think that kind of nihilism and cynicism and, you know, like every, like so much. Attached irony. Yeah, and just kind of this snotty, like now too it's a lot of people online, like a lot of younger comedy people.

It's just like shit posting naysaying yeah and also too like the notion of any kind of emotional honesty or even or sentimentality or is just like fuck you yeah you're queer you know it's like no eventually when you get grown up you're not afraid of feelings and you can actually fucking have them and and find comedy in the feelings too you know right um and i wonder because a lot of your early comedy uh you know and even even sort of the stuff you do with Greg is like, it's not necessarily, I was going to say nihilism. Like, because, I mean, there is a lot of awesome show stuff that you could call nihilistic. Yeah, yeah. And the stuff you do with Greg, while not nihilistic, it's fucking hostile.

Yeah, yeah. It's like the comedy of hostility. Yeah. hostile. It's like the comedy of hostility. And I wonder, because so much of my worldview and my work view has been changed by having children. Does having children change that for you? Or is it just something that kind of happens concurrent with having kids? This is kind of, you know. I like to say, the joke answer is that I incorporated diaper humor into our stuff. You could see the moment when the diaper references. There's this episode of Steve Brule where he's changing a grown man's diaper.

Yeah, yeah. It's very, very funny. Did the shit tube? Did the shit tube? Was that pre-diaper? That was pre-diapers. Did the shit tube? Did the shit tube? Was that pre-diaper?

It was pre-diapers. I just read something about my own work this morning that some critic wrote about that on cinema. What a good way to wake up. Yeah. What have the papers said about me this morning? Wake up and sitting at your booth at Sardi's. My clippings. Yeah.

No, but this guy just talked about the, it's funny you brought it up, because he talked about the non-cynical irony of the stuff I do with Greg. Yeah. On Cinema and Mr. America that has just come out. And his point being that while these people are terrible people, my character is a terrible guy,

and Greg's character is on another side of the spectrum, a kind of a terrible guy. Yeah, yeah. It's our sort of – it's our like outside of that perspective that this is – that we have a hopeful view of how people should be. Yes, yes. Right, right, right. This is a negative example. This is how you people should be. Yes, yes, right, right, right. There's a judgment. This is a negative example. This is how you should not behave. Yes. And in Mr. America, people that saw it said, because I play this very Trumpy, hostile,

borderline racist buffoon, very Trumpy, very much inspired by Trump that the fact that we did not cynically make him a success, we didn't make him, uh, we didn't play the, the, the, the move that you might see in a darker comedy, which is that he is successful and that he does become, he is treated as a fool in the movie and is disregarded and thrown in the, basically in the dustbin of San Bernardino politics, not treated seriously. Because we did feel like to play it realistically and also to perhaps provide some hope is that these characters should fail. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think there is – I love playing a swine, a bad guy who can yell at somebody because it's fun to do as an actor. It's fun to be like a bad guy. Oh, it's the best. Yeah. And you say whatever you want. And so there we, I don't know.

I mean, does, do my kids influence how I want to keep, whether I want to keep behaving that way? No, because I can get it out in those formats, I guess. I can get it out in that way. But we like. Well, and also too, like you said, these people are getting their comeuppance. Right. So it's not like you're reveling in their shitty behavior.

Yeah, yeah. The thing that just befuddles me, and we always get, once this whole, like, the whole pedophilia thing, you know, that's come up in the past few years where people have used that as an attack on Hollywood or whatever, you know? Right, right, right. And there's like, obviously, there's terrible examples of this. But since I've engaged in politics and gotten into fights about it and stuff, and one of the things people come, well, you guys are into pedophilia.

Yeah. What are you talking about, man? Yeah, yeah. Well, there's these sketches where you do these weird things with kids and you do this child clown. There's a running bit we do with these child clowns. Yeah. Where these child clowns are in cages. And it's really, I mean, this is 10 years ago we were doing this.

Yeah, yeah. But there are some weird parallels, you know, to like the Pizzagate stuff. Yeah. But we're like, that was the furthest thing from our mind. You know, when you're making this stuff, it's all about what is the sickest? What is the most absurd, dumbest, you know, and how can we make this feel real? And I'm like, do you understand if we were into this scene? Yeah. We wouldn't be putting it in our comedy shows.

Right, exactly. We're showing it as something horrifying. Yes. And like unsettling, because I want to make you feel unsettled. Yeah. So there is this weird thing that happens in this movie, the comedy I did too, where people thought that we're somehow, because we're presenting bad characters, we're presenting bad people,

that somehow we're validating it or, you know, saying that this is how people should be. It's like they didn't say that to Martin Scorsese after Taxi Driver when they showed Travis Bickle. Right, right, right. You know, it's like you can present bad people hopefully as a way to express how you think people shouldn't behave. And it's always strange to me, like when they, you know, I mean, how many movies feature people murdering each other? And it's not like they're going like, you're a pro-murder. You know, it's just like, oh, no, murder. Yeah, we're used to that.

And, you know, and just because you reminded me, that whole notion of these, you know, and I guess the QAnon people are, you know, like pedophilia, like, you know, like that somehow, like I just, they'll say like that Chrissy Teigen and John Legend are part of some sort of high-powered pedophilia ring. Yeah, Trading them. And I always thought to me, like, that's like, oh, that's very telling to somebody who thinks that what would you do if you became rich and powerful and could get away with anything? Oh, you would engage in pedophilia. Right. And I just thought, like, wow, that's really the lady protesting too much. Somebody pointed out online, and I don't even think it was anybody I knew, that if you are a victim of abuse and if you have been subjected to especially that kind of abuse, you see it everywhere. Right.

And so it's very likely that these people are not – you're not seeing like some sort of deep-seated wish that they have to act out in a particular way, you're probably seeing somebody's trauma. Right, right. And then there are people who just exploit it. I think they exploit it. They're just shit heels that exploit it. It's because you can just go down the list, what is the worst thing somebody can do? Yes, yes.

That's the one. Yeah. That's the one that's unthinkable. It's horrible. Can't imagine that it happens. I know it does, but, you know, watch something like the jerry sandusky story and my mind like stops i'm like can't happen how does that happen right

so it is now they have kids you're like i i take it personally when people say that about us yes of course um well and in vick burger they say you know that's it you know the way he got labeled a pedophile by Mike Cernovich. Yeah, yeah. It's just a tactic. It's a weapon that they have. And it is. It's the kind of thing.

It's the sort of thing that if you say, hey, you, you're a pedophile. Then you're defending. Yes, when you're engaging it and saying, no, I'm not. When you deny something like that, you are. Validating. Entering into the possibility that you are. Right. You know?

Yeah. So it's just the cynical, most worst fucking thing, you know? And I thought about the thing about the reason maybe we joke about it is that George Carlin thing about, you know, anything is funny in context. It's all about context. Yes. Yes. So, like, the shit that I look at of our work where it kind of circles around that. Yeah.

It's all the absurdity of the idea of it. It's not any kind of statement of how we think about children. You know what I mean? Yes. It's just anyways. Yeah. Crazy. Well, is there some-

Do you want to ask the first question? It's Heidecker? Oh, that's my dogs here. It's okay. We were just laughing. So, I was getting to the where are you going, to the second question, actually. And is there something that you're not doing that you wish you were? Is there something you're being stymied from?

Is there a great wish? You know, I think my career has just been impossible to plan for. And there's no way to expect anything. Yeah. And that's perhaps something I just have to get used to. But I do dream of stability. And I've been incredibly lucky and successful and very comfortable because of a lot of hard work, but also getting opportunities for whatever reason. But nothing is – I mean, you feel a little like a football player maybe where you're like, I'm going to do this for a little while. I get paid more than I should for some things.

Some things I do very much for free or I pay to do, you know, my music or whatever. Or there are things where you're paid just the right amount. Yeah, those are very rare. Yeah. But, you know, then that could all stop. I have that feeling, probably have always had that feeling. Everybody has. Everybody has that.

Everybody has that feeling. have always had that feeling. Everybody has. Everybody has that. Everybody has that feeling. But as somebody that like my ideas are more challenging to sign on to, they're more, I don't know, they're more niche. And that seems to be not as, even though we see all these streaming platforms, we see all these avenues for stuff, it doesn't seem like that necessarily widens space for the weird stuff.

Yeah, yeah. I don't know. It still seems like. Well, and your stuff so much, too, is about the execution. You can't describe your stuff until after it exists. Right, right. So you have to jump in with a leap of faith a little bit. Yeah. And, you know, as an actor, I do this movie Us.

Mm-hmm. It was awesome. It was great. And you're really, you're fucking great in it too. Yeah, you're welcome. It doesn't seem to matter. Like, it might matter next, you know, it might lead to something else eventually. Yeah.

But the idea that you might have when you're a kid that, like, I'm going to be in a movie that's going to be the number one horror movie of the year, whatever. Yeah. But the idea that you might have when you're a kid that like, I'm going to be in a movie that's going to be the number one horror movie of the year, whatever. Right. Like a big movie. Yeah. An unquestionably big movie. Yeah, yeah. I'm not in it a lot.

No, but make a very indelible impression when you are on screen. No, you, your character, you're not like just a sideline character it's a trick because there really aren't that many people in the movie yes but but you but like it's memorable yeah like you are you know you make an impression and you do a great job in it and i don't i'm not complaining but there is not that does there's not an automatic that anything else that leads to anything tell me about it right yeah yeah So I'm not complaining. God, believe me, I'm not complaining. But there isn't this feeling of like, oh, now I'm set on a track.

It's just like, well, Jordan loved me because of some movie. I mean, he knew all our work, but he knew the movie, the comedy, and then he loved it. And when he was writing this movie, he thought of me for that part. Yeah. And now I'm in the movie. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

So it doesn't mean some agent or some studio executive or somebody was like, we got to make Heidecker a star. Yeah, yeah. He's going to go big, you know. None of that. It's just like individuals along my whole life who have been like interested in working with me. So if that's- It does mean my 14-year-old daughter when I drive her to school this morning and I say I'm doing a podcast and she says, with who? And I say, Tim Heidecker.

And she goes, mm. And I say, you know, Tim and Eric? And she's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But she hasn't seen it in a while. Right. And I said, and he's the white guy in us. And she's like, oh. That's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But she hasn't seen it in a while. And I said, and he's the white guy in us. And she's like, oh. That's good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I was listening to your thing with Ken Jennings. Uh-huh. And you mentioned Wii Spa. Yeah. And so I went to Wii Spa last weekend. Uh-huh. I'd not been there before.

I just went there for the first time. Korean Spa here in Los Angeles. And I walked, I accidentally walked out of one of the men's rooms into the waiting room in my white robe that I had on. White robe. And this woman double takes, gives me, an older woman, definitely not a Tim and Eric fan. Yeah, yeah. Gives me a double take. And she goes, I'm sorry, you look like that guy from Us.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm wearing this white robe. Right, right, right. And I go, I'm him. I still get excited about that. Yeah, of course. Hey, yeah, that's me. Oh, I get it. I'm wearing this robe. So she's like, right, right. And I go, I'm him. I still get excited about that. Yeah, of course. Hey, yeah, that's me. Oh, I get it. I'm wearing this robe.

So she's like, oh, well. But yeah, so it's all nice. It's all good. But if I could say, if you ask what don't I have is, yeah, you have that stability that this is what I do. And I don't have to worry about cramming in 20 different kinds of things to to live the life we live and yeah that kind of stuff well and people make the assumption too that because you outside people will make that assumption and so when you

you know you go you you went out of your way to express your thankfulness and your gratefulness which i understand that urge because people are so quick to jump on you when you i'm an elite seemingly yeah are complaining about your cornucopia overflowing but the fact is that people do assume that because you were in us you're set right i mean the there there's a fucking if you look look up Andy Richter net worth online, it says like $15 million. Right, right. $15 million. Right.

Which is hilarious. That's a lot. Right. Well, you would not be. Absurdly hilarious. You'd be gone. Wouldn't you be gone? Yeah.

I mean, you'd be doing. You'd be, I don't know. I mean, nothing against the Conan show, but yeah. Learning the banjo? I wouldn't be showing up here four days a week if I had $15 fucking million. You'd just coast at that. Yeah, yeah. Fly around.

Nicole Byer was on the show last night. We were talking about, because I think her website is something like nicolebuyerwastaken.com because someone else there's some artist or something right and she said that this person who has nicolebuyer.com wanted 20 grand and she's like i don't have 20 grand and it's the kind of thing where it's like when i hear that i'm like i don't have 20 grand yeah yeah if somebody somebody's got andyrichter.com, not me. Just throw away. If they want 20 grand for it, no fucking way.

I don't have – I can't afford 20 grand to have my andyrichter.com, you know? I would feel that loss. Yeah, no shit. Yeah. Yeah, so – but I mean, you know, but that's that. So – Call the kid in Ethiopia. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. He's got in Ethiopia. Exactly. Exactly. He's got a nice cell phone. So then, I mean, do you have things in the works? Well, I should plug this thing. This is this piece of paper that people hear. It says current project. No, this is about a podcast that you did for Team Coco. Okay.

So this is synergy, baby. Yeah, let's promote away. Yeah, Smarter is a new scripted comedy podcast from Team Coco. Takes you on a tour of tech startups. And it's got like Joel Kim Booster. Mark Proach. And Mark Proach is in it. And Kate Berlant.

Right. And you. And it really sounds like an intro. I haven't in it. And Kate Berlant. Right. And you. And it really sounds like an intro. I haven't heard it. The first two episodes for free exclusively on Luminary with new episodes coming out every Tuesday at luminary.link slash smarter, which is S-M-A. Just tumble down the hill and go.

Yeah, yeah. Luminary.link slash. I've never heard that. Link slash. Luminary.link slash smarter. Oh, it's like luminary.linkslash. I've never heard that. Linkslash. Luminary.linkslash smarter. It's like luminary.linkslash. Yeah, yeah. Right.

But I've never seen.linkslash together. I've never seen.link before. .linkslash. It sounds like a Lithuanian name. Yeah,.linkslash. Yeah, yeah. My name is Andres.linkslash. And smarter is S-M-A-R-T-R.

There's no E in it for you people out there. But anyway, I mean, do you have any big things in the works? Do you have a new show? Yeah, well, Eric and I are going on tour. Oh. A big world tour in January. Just be careful. I worry about you guys spending too much time together.

Oh, we've been spending a lot of time together. Yeah, yeah. We did another thing that will be coming out next year. Does it ever get to be too much? Well, the thing is, we do other things. Yeah, yeah. So it was a little too much probably in those first 10 years. Yeah, yeah.

It was a lot. It was a lot of pressure. We were around each other all the time. We have very different interests. But we still love each other. And the fact that we were able to go off and do independent things is a huge thing it's big and then you can come back and go what's let's do a tim and eric year yep let's do a year where we make something we just do this tour we got another thing coming out next year that i have to can't talk about but it's

gonna be very good and um, boy. I mean. Pressure. It's going to be the same old shit. Come on. What do you want? What do we think we're going to do? What do you want? You squeeze a turnip.

You get turnip juice. Are we going to do something as good as the Irishman or something like that? No. It'll just be fun. It'll be laughs. Yeah, yeah. But we're very excited about that. And then that's kind of, I mean, the tour takes us through like to the spring.

Yeah, yeah. And then we'll see what happens after that. Us too. Them. Us too, colon, them. Us too. T-O-O. Well, there's the what have you learned question.

I mean, do you, I imagine people come to you and say, what's your advice? How do I do it in this life? And it doesn't have to be about show business either, you know, I mean, because. I mean, the thing I learned quickly is the process is why you should be doing any of this. Making it, the working with your friends, the figuring it out, the solving the puzzle, watching it later, getting people to tell you they liked it, getting people to tell you they hate it, all that sucks. I mean, listen, if somebody comes up, it's almost like either it's neutral or negative. It's like, if you tell me, I loved this thing you did, I kind of, Like if you tell me, I loved this thing you did, I kind of, it's hard for me to care.

Yeah. Because I already went through the pain or the joy of doing it. And now it's gone. Now it's out and it's in the world. It's nice. It's nice. It's nice that you made people happy. It helps when I want to try to do something else. Yeah.

And people like it. That helps. Yeah. And that's why I say it sucks when people review stuff and say that it sucks, you know, because that's fine. I mean, that's what happens sometimes, but it does, you know, you want as much support from something as possible. But, you know, I learned quickly, I mean, almost for the first time we saw the premiere

of our first show on TV tv i felt a suspicious lack of excitement in that experience so i was like oh this isn't like we haven't gotten to the mountain it's not this exaltation of we did it yeah awesome my show's on tv yeah yeah that lasted for like a second and then it was like oh the fun part was making it yeah with my friends yeah yeah so is that something unique to you why do you think that that that's i mean because it is a little bit unique you know i mean there are people that certainly do feel revel in their accomplishments well i don't say yeah i mean i like eric's always had that where it's like excited about the finished product,

excited about showing it. Yeah. And I've lost interest in that by that point. Yeah. I had fun doing it, seeing it for the first time when we have, whenever you see it, maybe. And then it's, then it's just not mine anymore. Alfred Hitchcock didn't even like shooting movies.

I heard that he doesn't even like shooting movies. I heard that. He doesn't even like look at the – Yeah, he didn't like – once he got to where they're actually shooting it, he'd already made the movie in his head. In his head, right. And made all the decisions he wanted to make. Right. And it was sort of boring. Right.

But he had to execute it now. The process. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I like that part of it. And I think that as long as you remember why you're doing it, you're doing it because it's fun to make stuff. Yes. Hopefully with people you like to make stuff with. Then that's a great reason to do it.

No, the thing that you said about process is something that I exactly agree with. Mm-hmm. Because, and it's something that I've told people don't make if you want to if you're the kind of person that needs a goal um don't make it a thing right make it the process make it make it make it like i'm gonna get better at this not i'm gonna become this right and the big the first time that I really noticed that was being next to Conan and seeing him achieve his big dream at whatever he was, age 29 or 30. Right. And having spent all this, and he runs on a high RPM anyway. Right, right.

All this energy to get to this place. Right. And then you're still, the factory's still churning. Right. But you've already, the product is made. Yeah. And, but so there's like all this sort of. Energy.

Energy that becomes anxiety, that becomes, you know, that I just, it gave me a sense, like, I learned from that. Right. That, like, this drive sometimes, if you, you know, if you make it just a thing. Right. And you get that thing, that drive is going to become anxiety. Yeah, yeah. That could very well become unpleasant.

Yeah, yeah. You know, so. Yeah, and also you have no control over how people are going to react to what you make. Yeah, yeah. So let go of that. Make it, be happy with it for yourself. Yeah. And then go keep work, keep making stuff.

Absolutely. And if you pour yourself into becoming, say, you know, I'm going to become this. When you get there, then what? Yeah, then what? Now what do you have to aim for? I imagine it's a huge reassessment of what was this all about? Well, the trouble, I've at least am self-aware of my dissatisfaction of wherever I'm at. There's still a feeling.

There's always a feeling of, okay, is that, like I said earlier with us, like, all right, I'm in that cool big movie. Yeah. All right, that was fun. Now, what does that mean? Nothing. Yeah, yeah. It's not, I look at, I mean, my heroes are people that are way beyond where I'm at. You know what I mean?

How can I be, the ambition to want to be fucking Bob Dylan or something. Right. You're just, that, at that level is dangerous or very, could become damaging because you're like, well, who's, why would you think that you could be like that? Yeah, and also, do you really want that? Do you really want to be just on the- Do you really want it? Because Bob Dylan- Maybe that's not the best example.

Yeah, yeah. No, but I mean, yeah, it is true. It's like there's a cost for everything. There's a yin for every yang. Yeah, yeah. But that dissatisfaction, is that something like, is that problematic? Does it get in the way of you?

And is it something that you wish, you know, that you're in process of changing? It should be something I work on more. I mean, I do, with every project I do, there is sort of a self-protectiveness of it or a, and not just about me, but the other people that work on it and the self-preservation of getting to do more, there is a feeling of we should, this should be more popular. Yeah. This should be more, we should be on firmer ground. Yeah. To be able to do bigger things or push this. So as much as I say, it's all about the process, I do feel protective and always dissatisfied with the level, where the project

takes us to make the next thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Do you worry about ever being satisfied? Like, do you think if you're satisfied, it's a problem? That's a good question. I don't know. Yeah. I would not give you a fake answer if I didn't know. But I think some of that dissatisfaction, you know, gets you up in the morning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gets you trying. It gets you, well, yeah. It gets you into show business too, you know. All right. Well, Tim, this has been really great. It was, I, you know, one of the things I love

about doing this is that I get to pry into people that I like and respect's lives and find things out. We know each other sort of very casually. Very acquaintance kind of, you know, friendly kind of way. But, yeah, this has been fun. I like this lesson in Tim Heidecker. Appreciate you having me. I hope the listeners did, too. And with that,

I'm going to say thank you all for listening, and we will be with you next time on The Three Questions. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Earwolf production. It's produced by me, Kevin Bartelt, executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, Thank you. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.