The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Tony Hawk

Episode Date: April 11, 2023

Tony Hawk joins Andy Richter to discuss the evolution of skateboarding culture, what he learned from his serious femur injury, unexpectedly completing the first documented 900, the HBO documentary about his life, and more. 

Hello, everyone. You have tuned in to another episode of The Three Questions, and I am talking today. I think you're the first person that's been on this show that has a video game named after them. Oh, cool. That's pretty rare. Yes, I know that. I miss John Madden.

I miss the window with him. I think all podcasts miss John Madden. But, yeah, I'm talking to Tony Hawk today who is around. And you have a documentary of your life going on that's kind of you're making the rounds yeah

it's not mine but Sam Jones made it and it's on HBO called Until the Wheels Fall Off but it's you

it's a documentary it's about me yeah yeah but when you say it's mine it's not like I'm the one who controlled the narrative or put it together

it's just more like I was interviewed for it he interviewed a bunch of people and then suddenly my whole life was exposed for anyone to see on hbo are you okay with it sure when you say i mean because you say that it's not yours but i mean you you know and that guy isn't gonna make something where it's like tony hawk the asshole you know yeah no i No, I don't. He never presented at that angle. Um, but it's just weird to, you know, I've never been one to really try to overshare or dig up my personal life at all. And so it's all right there on screen. That was a little, you know, it got a little tricky, especially for my family. Um, but I had conversations with them before that and,

and, and they understood why did why did you do it that's a good question i think because i knew it was going to happen at some point anyway with or without my involvement yeah um and i had a few different offers to do it and they all seemed very cookie cutter it's like this rise to fame and then you lost it and there's like the kind of behind the music type of vibe sure um it all came crashing down yeah and then then this massive success and hooray and and i felt like skateboarding is much more nuanced than that than than the typical sports documentary um and sam Jones, who I had worked with before just shooting photographs, he approached me and he has a deep history with skating in the 80s when it was kind of

the not cool thing to do. And so I thought he'll have the best voice in terms of how skateboarding is and the most authentic. And so he approached me, it was almost five years ago, and then kept kind of having false starts with funding. And then finally through COVID just said, let's just do it. You know, we're all sitting around. We can do it outdoors. We can all get tested, all that stuff. So we did that. We shot all through COVID.

Yeah. Yeah. Are you happy with it? I mean, there are parts of it that you're uncomfortable with. I mean, a bit just because it's, you know, it's just not stuff I expected to share with everyone, but, um, it's honest and, and yeah. And, and also kind of came through the fire of my own demons. And so I feel pretty good about it. Yeah. Did it, is there any interviews in there where you're like, where you're kind of pissed at somebody? Cause no, not at all. Oh, that's good. Now, when you say skateboarding is more nuanced than other sports, could you explain that a little bit more?

Well, I think it's more that you can't wholly categorize it as a sport. Yeah. It's very much a lifestyle, a culture, an art form. An art, yeah. It's a dance. It's not part of a competition. It's like videos. But there is that element that is highly competitive. It's in the. Like so much of what it is. It's not part of a competition. It's like videos. But there is that element that is highly competitive.

It's in the Olympics now. Right. I mean, there are superstar competitors, but there are also people who are wildly successful that just skate, that show what they do, produce content and in other forums, social media or whatever else, who are revered in our world, but they're not competing.

They just love it for what it provides them. What do you think the percentage in you is between show person and competitor? And has it changed over the years? Yeah, I'd say it's, I don't know. That's a trick. That's a good question. I think more that when I started skating, the only way you could make any sort of success or have any success was to compete. There were no other alternative ways to be known or to be recognized or to have support. Which would be like YouTube channels and things like that.

Like YouTube channels and things like that. Or magazine coverage. But the magazines were only covering you if you were doing well in competition. Okay. They only wanted to show your photo if you got top three and then maybe interview afterwards. But it was just more like that was the path to having any sort of success or name for yourself. So I was born in competition. So I did it for 20, almost 30 years. And then through those times, I was doing a lot of other things like exhibitions and tours and we would go on the road. And then I

started to embrace that a lot more. And then when I finally made my formal exit from competition, I leaned into exhibition skating and doing demonstrations. And so I guess that's where my focus is more now. But honestly, in recent years, it's just been more personal. It's been more like I want to keep progressing as much as I can at my age. Yeah. And I will document that along the way. Yeah.

But I'm not gunning to get out on the road anymore. Right, right. And what effect has age had on you? I know there was like a pretty serious injury. I broke my femur a year ago. And then you kind of got back too fast, right? I got back too fast and my bone never connected back to itself. So I was-

And that's a big one too. Yeah, that's a big bone to not have connect. I literally didn't have a leg to stand on, but I was in denial for almost seven months, maybe eight months of that. It's just going to, it's going to reconnect. It's going to happen. And so I just kept, I kept skating. I kept doing stuff in great pain. And then at some point got x-rays and realized that it had moved further away from itself. Jesus. Over the course of.

Like actually like further from each other laterally? Yeah, laterally. Oh, wow. Yeah. It was on top of each other. Then it moved sideways. And then it just kept moving sideways. Wow.

And then I started to get this sort of bow-legged limp going. And then. And you were walking around. I was walking around. But I just, like i said i was in denial i was limping around yeah yeah and then uh finally went to a specialist and he said oh this is what they call a non-union fracture it's not going to reconnect unless we actually physically reset it put new hardware in and he had a master he had a plan of action that was

seemed so matter of fact yeah that i i had surgery the next week oh wow and i have been on the right path to recovery ever since now i'm back on my skateboard i'm skating normally i'm walking normally was that did you have like one of those halos one of those things with pins no no it was all interior it's all interior yeah so i have a big uh what they call a nail i have have a big nail going through both of my pieces. But now I have one bone, finally. Yeah. Success.

Was that ego? Was that ego that kept you from? Yeah. I think if you ask my wife, yes, absolutely. Or stubbornness, obsession. Yeah. But also I had, I think what it was that I had a few events scheduled that were in the foreseeable future. And I kept thinking, I'm going to get to that event. I'm

going to be in skating mode by then, which was unrealistic. But I kind of heard what I wanted to hear from the experts. They said, oh, well, six weeks, your bone will be healed. Six weeks, that's it. Six weeks, I'm back. My bone bone is biggest bone in my body. This six weeks is just not realistic. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't. It was it was it partly that you didn't want to let the people down or these bookings that you had made? Was that part of it or was it more just that was part of it? But also I thought I had something to prove that i could just get back you know that i'm going to defy yeah my age i'm going to defy expectations and i'm going to do it and and it was my mistake i accept it and i'm just so thankful to live in this age of modern medicine that i had a second chance right how has age limit limited your performance as a as a skater i mean has it

um are there certain things you just know, like I'm not as flexible? Yeah, that and also just that I don't want to risk. Yeah. I mean, there are things that I could probably do still. Yeah. But the risk to reward isn't there for me anymore. And the risk is great.

Yeah. So even though people, I'd say from an outside perspective, people see what I do and they're like, he's crazy, rides these 14-foot foot ramps and he's doing aerial stuff. But, but what I'm doing is so much more tame than what I used to do. And I'm fully confident with it. I'm comfortable with it. And so I kind of have found the space to live in where I'm happy with, with what I do professionally at my age, but I'm not moving the needle for skateboarding in general. Yeah. When you do hurt yourself, because I'm just

curious because I know, I mean, I'm not in very good shape. I've been in better shape than I have now, but I know that just the striking difference, the length of recovery, just, you know, when, for me, it was always in my line of work, it like doing pratfalls and you know and i you know like falling downstairs for a laugh like i used to do that when i was like in my early 20s like literally fall downstairs for a laugh get up and be fine you know maybe like oh i got a bruise on my back but then you know there was just a couple times when i was like oh yeah i can do that kind of flat face fall and break my fall with my arms. And then like, oh, now I got a sore elbow for two months. You know, is it the same thing? Uh, yeah. Yeah. For it's, it's the same thing, but, but I guess it's more that it wasn't something that happened all of a sudden. Yeah.

It's been, it's been happening over the years, but also I, I learned to live with a sort of low lying level of pain and knowing that that's what I endure to be able to do this for a living. And I'm okay with that. Like it was never, it was never that, Oh, getting old sucks and my back hurts. And it was like, yeah, my neck's super stiff, but I can get back out there. Yeah. And was that something just because of what you did and i mean i imagine like even in your youth when you were like number one for all those years in a row i imagine but just falling is part of it like falling is spills is just is that's for everybody yeah absolutely and i mean and is that where the pain comes from is there like pain comes chronic from the pain comes from unexpected falls there like chronic from- The pain comes from unexpected falls. So we fall a lot intentionally where I know something is a little off and then I just toss my board and I

either knee slide or run and I know that I can get out of that safely. It's more when you think everything's okay until it's not. And you find yourself like i did sliding across the bottom of a ramp with your leg pointing the other direction it's more like that so those those unexpected falls and i'd say the one that has gotten me the most chronically is my neck because a lot of sort of whiplash motions and so my neck's super stiff. It's like when people call me from over to the side, like, something wrong with your neck? Yeah. Decades of whiplash.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you wear a helmet now, right? Did you always wear a helmet? Well, yes, but also because what I, my discipline is the ramp and the pool skating. And it's just, it would be careless to not wear a helmet when you're flying around, you know, 20 feet up and stuff. Um, and also I came from the generation that was skate park oriented and skate parks, the pads were mandatory. Yeah. So, you know, there's a whole generation of skaters

that they grew up on the streets and there was no, you know, they, they didn't go, there were no skate parks. Yeah. So they just had to make make do and so that's just not really their vibe and there was no rule there was no there was no rule right but there was no nobody could sue anybody for what i do it's mandatory yeah i consider it mandatory yeah because i see like some of those videos especially where people are i don't know they must be in malibu or something go down going down mountain roads it looks like 40 miles an hour, no pads whatsoever. Oh, it's like it hurts just to watch it, just from the potential of it. Can't you tell my love's a girl?

Well, you, of course, are a Californian. Yes. And when you were coming up, you're from San Diego. I'm telling you that. When you were coming up, was it all pretty much California kids? It was mostly, but because, so I started skating in the late 70s, early 80s. And that was the explosion of skate parks. And most of the skate parks were in Southern California.

But there were pockets of other skate scenes in places like Texas, in Florida, in New York. But most of the industry was here. Yeah. The magazines, the skate companies. And I just got, I mean, I got lucky that this is the hub. Yeah. I've always wondered with something like you know with something that's a relatively new thing that's now an art form a

sport an industry and you know how did like who are the first people that are like i'm gonna be a businessman in this thing i mean you know what i mean yeah because and you to be a businessman in this thing. I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah. And you've become a businessman in this thing. How does that go from being like, just good at riding up a ramp and doing twists? To like knowing what to do in a boardroom? I think my path was more out of desperation, but with, yeah, I mean, with the originators of skate business,

it was really surf shops. Yeah. It was like the Dogtown and Z-Boys area. They thought, you know, that was, those were the surfers in Venice Beach. And then they started skating as an extension of surfing. Then they started skating empty swimming pools during the big California drought. Yeah. And then it was like, well, we sell surfboards, let's make skateboards.

So I guess that was sort of their path. Mine was more it was the late 90s skating kind of took a downturn in popularity my style of skating was was very unpopular which was half pipe skating why why um because all the parks were closed oh and then kids were taken to the streets and and that was a whole new style and discipline. I did it, but I wasn't at the, you know, I wasn't the innovator of that. So it was more like people weren't paying attention to what I was doing in the streets. I see.

And then I thought, I want to, I'm going to have to, I have to find a job. That was my, that was my mindset. Yeah. And I took a, I took the equity out from my house and I started a skate company thinking that was my transition from being a pro skater to being a company owner. And so it was more that I wanted to be in the industry. I love skateboarding so much. And then I thought I can foster a team. Like I have a good eye for talent. I picked a bunch of riders. It was, it was kind of a diverse mix. And then we just, we just set out to make a skateboard company. And at some point my partner who also put up money for the, for the company, he said, I think you're more effective as a skater for this company than as a advertising director,

team manager, whatever. I, I, I wore all the hats. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. And, um, I agree with him. advertising director team manager whatever i i wore all the hats yeah yeah sure and uh i agree with him so now you just get to skate and you know yeah i mean i'm getting told whether you're doing good or bad uh i i'm definitely a big part of the business decisions and i've learned to navigate that world better yeah so um i bet it's is it was it intimidating like was it did you feel,

I mean, I don't know what, you know, whether you ever took any business classes in school. No, it was, I, well, luckily my partner, that was his, he, he had a business degree. Yeah. So I let him do all that stuff. And then at some point I started to understand more of the world because I was doing other sort of bigger endorsements and working with big companies. And so I started to understand kind of how all that works. Yeah. And then eventually I bought him out of a birdhouse and took it on my own, but it was more once I established that, okay, I know enough about this. Right.

Is it true kind of that you turned to skateboarding just because you were so rambunctious? Is it true kind of that you turned to skateboarding just because you were so rambunctious? I mean, the actual phrase hyperactive is in my notes. Yeah, I think it would be some other diagnosis these days. But that was the official diagnosis in the 70s, right? Were you just like a kid that wouldn't stop? I was just, yeah, I was just always active. And Daredevil, for the most part, where I was a little kid going off the high dive. And we used to ride BMX.

And I wanted to go ride the crazy dirt trials and go down the big hills and stuff. And so when I found skateboarding, it was like, this is it. This is all the elements of all the things that i love and what age is this uh i was about 10 about 10 yeah and then i was playing basketball i was playing baseball i was doing okay but i was i can't say that i was ever i was not gonna be i was never gonna be first pick yeah yeah um but and i never felt like i was improving at any sort of rate that i could measure. Yeah. And then I found skating. And every time I went skating, I learned something new.

Some little technique or trick. But it was like, oh, every time I go, I'm doing better. And then at some point, my dad, who was our Little League coach, was appointed the president of the Little League. And that was the year i quit oh wow so that was a awkward conversation just when he's yeah just when he's in his glory yeah i mean he was understanding because he he was right there with me he's the one driving me to the skate park but at one point i was i didn't want to leave the skate. And my mom came to pick me up to go to baseball practice.

And I, and out of protest, I walked into baseball practice with my skate pads on. And it was like, this is the end. Wow. They were understanding generally though. I mean, they, you know, it was, you know, it was more, it was more like follow through, but then my dad saw what it brought to me and how much I loved it and truly that I was progressing at it. Yeah.

Um, he was very supportive. Was there ever any kind of, you know, cause like, you know, there can be, you know, like skateboarding hoodlums, you know, like your kids, you know, uh, was there any, did they ever have any concerns about that, that you were out there getting high with those ruffians? No. My mom was always so welcoming. She saw that skateboarding was this band of misfits. Yeah.

And a lot of their parents discouraged them from skating because of those reasons you said or because they just weren't supportive at all. Yeah. And those people don't get it. It's like it still was relatively new as a thing to do. It certainly isn't little league, you know? No, but,

but there was, there was the, the punk element too. And so people had crazy hair and, and they, they just had a different attitude. It was just more, more renegade,

more do it yourself. And, and that didn't, that didn't jive with more mainstream sports. But my mom was always very welcoming of that crew. And so I understood that perspective. But at the same time, when you lived it, you just saw a bunch of artists. Yeah.

You just were there with a bunch of creative people that didn't care what anyone else thought. And I respected that did you have it like a was there someone that kind of was a mentor or taught you or did you just kind of was it like just a bunch of kids learning from each other yeah we were all just throwing anything against the wall to see what would stick in terms of learning tricks and things yeah yeah i mean i definitely took inspiration from the older pros to see what they were doing or what tricks were coming down the pipe. And then I'd say that the person who taught me the most through my formative years was Stacy Peralta. He is the one who formed the Bones Brigade team. And he was helpful because he had already lived that life of a pro skater in the 70s.

Yeah. And navigated strange situations he never expected to be in. And then went on to become a part company owner. And so when we were faced with these opportunities, but also just kind of challenges, he could help us in what we choose to do and how we proceed. And he really gave us incredible opportunities that we wouldn't have had if he wasn't there. I mean, because of him, we got to be the stunt crew in Police Academy 4, which at the time was huge. Right, right.

When did you start to really know that you were good? Like good enough to do it for a living? That's, well, that's weird because I guess I knew that I had something when Stacey Peralta showed interest in me. Because I was younger than the rest of the team that he had put together. And also my style, which was not, it wasn't developed. And I was doing all these little weird tricks. People call me a circus,

circus act because of the tricks I was doing. So that, that wasn't a compliment. That were your own design. Yeah. But they were just weird little board turns and things. And I, and I didn't really have the strength to go high.

Yeah. So I was not well received. Yeah. And when Stacy showed interest in me, I was like, Whoa, what you like that guy. Yeah.

You know, I was just honored that he said hello. I knew my name. Yeah. And then eventually put me on the team. And then I think that's when I realized that I have, must have something. Yeah.

And I think that I, I learned a lot through those, probably that first year of being on the Mons Brigade. I forced myself to get as good as I thought he saw me as. Do you know what I mean? Oh, sure, sure. It was more like, I have to justify that he believes in me. So I've got to get this good.

And what age is this? Like 13, 12, 13. Now, how do you go to school? Like, how do you work like well that's the thing skating just wasn't cool so oh i would go away how do you like but if you know like okay i'm good enough at this to be doing this at age but there was there was no okay so when i got sponsored by pal i was 12 13 there's no contract there's no money in it. I see. You know, skating is still very small industry. Yeah.

And, and if I go to school and say, Hey, I'm, I'm part of the bones brigade. I'm sponsored. They're like, that's like saying I got sponsored for my yo-yo skills.

Yeah. It just didn't make any difference to them. Duncan team. Yeah, it was it. Exactly. So, um,

that probably would have been cooler to say that. Right, right, right. I'm sponsored by Frisbee. We can at least do it in the classroom. Yeah. So that just, it didn't matter. But then it wasn't until when I was in my later years of high school, 16, 17, that I actually did start to make money. And that's when I started to realize that, oh, this is a career. Because everyone else, my classmates are trying to

figure out what are they going to study? What college are they going to go to? And I was like, I'm already making more than my teacher. And I bought a house when I was a senior. So it was more like- For yourself or for your family? For myself. Yeah. Wow. My dad had to co-sign because i was only 17 wow that's incredible but yeah but i mean and and your parents are like they're so there was no college college was never even they they encouraged me to go to college they were worried that skateboarding would be short-lived and in its own way it was um the first time around yeah

but i think it was more that, look, I can go to, I went and looked at colleges, not that I was going to go to some, you know, established four-year university or anything, but I went and looked at college and then said, but, but if I do that, I can't go on this tour. I can't, I can't go to Europe for six weeks. I can't go on these other things and, and chase this career. Right. And at some point, I think it was right out of high school. Um, I got a, I got a part in a movie because I was skating, but also I was like one of the principal characters kind of, uh, gleaming the cube. And I think that was probably the, what my parents needed to see Where it was like, okay, he has this career.

Who knows how far he can take it, but let's let him go with it. Yeah. That's good. Now, you say it was kind of odd. Is there a point at which it becomes cool? You know, I mean, is there... I think that I would say... Where it sort of makes a difference in your love life, you know, where it's like...

Yeah, I would say in more like the late 80s. Yeah. Back to the Future was a big boost for skateboarding. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't even have thought of that.

That scene when, you know, when he invents the skateboard for the most part, takes the handles off of the scooter. Yeah. Affected a lot of people where they went out and bought skateboards. Wow. Yeah. It's crazy the way things like that happen. Yeah, yeah.

Now, I mean, how long, how often, 12 years in a row you were the world champion. I mean, what is your life like at that point? I mean, does it mess with your head in any way? Does it mess with your head in any way? I would say not in the sense of that I was self-important, more that it started to drain on me the pressure of keeping that winning streak going. That got really difficult for me and made me quit competing altogether for a little while because it was just it became very formulaic

I would go to an event I'd have to practice new tricks away from my competitors and away from the judges so that the judges don't judge me on what they think I can do and it wasn't even about comparing me to everyone else it was more like we're comparing him to himself So that the judges don't judge me on what they think I can do. I see.

And it wasn't even about comparing me to everyone else. It was more like we're comparing him to himself. Yeah. And that got draining. My competitors saw me as sort of separate from them. And I just wanted to be in the mix. Yeah. I enjoyed the camaraderie, but they kind of put me on this other plane.

And I didn't enjoy it. It was very isolating. And at some point, I lost interest in competing. And I had to tell my sponsor that I don't want to do it like this anymore. And they're like, well, how do you expect to make a living if you're not competing? So we make videos, right? And they're like, yeah, but no one wants to see you unless you're in the competitions. And that's very much how it was back then yeah um so i pulled back from competing for about a year

and came back to it with a with a sense of i guess like less pride where it was i was i was happy to go out and put everything on the line and if it it didn't work out, I'm not going to place well, but if it did work out, then it's the best I could have possibly done. Right. And I was very, that was liberating. Yeah. It was like the, the, the, the idea that I was allowed to lose. Yeah. Was so relieving. Yeah. Um, I guess the irony was that when I did come back to it, it was right when skateboarding took another dive so i was killing it in the competitions yeah and there's no one around oh wow it was like what happened to the crowds yeah go how long was the time off in that span about a

year about a year yeah did you ever think about just like not trying as hard or was that just not in your you know when you're going through the string, I had to put it all out there. Yeah. I had to put it all out every time. Yeah. I mean, that was probably,

that was a big reason why I suffered a few injuries is just cause I had to do the best I could possibly do at every turn. Like even, even the smallest exhibition in the early nineties, when we're going to a parking lot of a strip mall skate shop and they got a bunch of shitty little ramps. Yeah. I'm going to do everything I can.

Yeah. I'm leaving it all behind. Right. Right. Does, uh, and is that just that was always in you? Yeah,

I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Are you like that only in skateboarding or are there other parts of your life where you just, are you a perfectionist in different areas? I guess that depends on who you ask. I probably I think I think just I have I want to finish what I started in every sense. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, but I've learned to, especially with skating, just do enough that it's like, I'm not going to kill myself doing this, but I am going to do it in a, in an advanced way. Um, and that was hard. That was hard to, to accept. Yeah. To come to terms with what what was like the thing that you look back on now and going from you know being just a kid skateboarding to being tony you know like the guy the you know the the the number one what was the craziest thing that you did like that you look back and kind of cringe about um

any maseratis and driven driven into hotel lobbies or anything like that uh nothing like that i think that i got caught up in the celebrity aspect on my sort of second go around of fame where things got bigger than i ever i ever imagined it could ever be this is after that one year break coming back or. This is after, this is like, we're fast forwarding like 10 years. Oh, right.

Cause you were off for, you were off for a number of years. I was skating all through the nineties and the mid nineties, but there was just no, there was no scene. I see. And then the X games came around that started to get big. Our video game series was,

was hugely successful. And it was around that time when suddenly I was thrust into the spotlight in a way that was sort of unparalleled for skaters. And then I got caught up in it where it was like, oh, movie premieres and red carpet and this trip and this. And then it was like, and I just lost myself in it. Yeah. And in the adulation and everything and that that was probably what i cringe most about because i missed i missed um my kids growing up in a lot of ways oh really you know i was there for sure but but i could have been much more present yeah yeah do you talk about

that with them now sure yeah yeah yeah and i mean do they do they agree or do they think no you were fine you know i'm asking for myself i think it was more that they they understood they especially honestly after that documentary came out they understood it in a much deeper way oh wow um but they they saw that i got caught up in it and and also you know i had different partners and other people coming to their lives and it just wasn't really i I wasn't being fair to them. Yeah, we just not a constant presence, just kind of. Yeah, yeah. But I figured it out before it was too late.

Yeah. Well, that's good. I hope. Ask them if you want verification on that. on that um was there a lot i mean did you encounter a lot of envy among other skateboarders i mean was it um i don't know about envy i mean it definitely there were accusations that well when my dad was involved there were accusations of favoritism um and then later on it was what do you mean when your dad was involved my dad was involved with some of the um organizations of the events oh i organization of the events in the 80s i see um because there was no organization i see there was no and he'd

already run a little league that's exactly it come on let me let him in there too so i i i endured that but then he passed away and then um when the x games came through they were focusing on me heavily i think mostly because i had a name recognition that carried through from the 80s but also because i was doing well in those events too and i think that there were, you know, some of the competitors were just like, oh, it's the Tony Hawk show. And they were over it.

And I understand. Yeah. I wasn't trying to get all the attention. Yeah. It was just that when I was skating, the cameras are pointing at me.

And you mentioned a little bit before. I mean, do you feel like you kind of missed out on the camaraderie? Yes. It definitely, it's an individual sport but it definitely seems like there's a lot of

yeah i would say especially in those 80s when i was kind of expected and putting all that pressure on myself to to constantly do well and win yeah i did not feel like I was part of the crew. Yeah. And the crew was so cool. They were so fun. You know what I mean? Like it was, it was just, it was, I do, when I look back on it, I was like, man, I wish I would have been like really hanging out with those guys. Yeah. Yeah. Um, to an extent because some of them kind of went off the rails. Right, right, right, right. Well, did you make that known at the time? I mean, did you ever be like, Hey fellas, you know, I think I was so hyper fixated on the skating that I, I had tunnel vision. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when you weren't number one anymore, how hard was that? Or had you been so used to it that you were kind of, well, like you said,

you know, you had, you were giving yourself the permission to lose yeah i mean but was it still you know was that still that kind of you know fighting eye of the tiger thing yeah i think that that carried through especially with that sort of second second coming of of my not my skating but but the skating's popularity in the late 90s early 2000s um yeah for sure i was i was of the same mindset where i was just like all right i'm gonna i'm gonna focus in i'm gonna do the you know i have all the i have a lot i had strategy yeah in competition a lot of skaters they just they just throw it out there yeah whatever comes comes and and um i always wanted to be a little more calculated but uh but yeah i think

so and then for me uh in 1999 i had already sort of decided subconsciously that I didn't want to compete anymore. And I knew that that sort of chapter of my life was going to come to an end, even though I was still doing well and I was getting a lot of endorsements and things. I just, it was, I was burning out. I had done it 20 years by then. And that was the year that I finally did a 900 and that was the big X um x games best trick event and

i didn't realize it at the time but then i afterwards i thought oh that was my exit from competition yeah that's that's the best moment i could possibly hope for yeah and it came spontaneously and that was a good out wow when i mean, I mean, explain for people what, I mean, it's the revolutions, what a 900 is. Uh, yeah, it's, it's basically a two and a half somersault in the air on your skateboard. You leave the ramp and spin around two and a half times to come back down the same side of the ramp. Yeah. And when you say that, I mean, had you done it before you, before you did it in competition and you weren't, were you, I'm going to spin around two and a half times? Or did you just over rotate and pull it off?

You know, I mean. The evolution of that was in 1985, there was a trick called a McTwist. I didn't admit that. Mike McGill did. He had made that up the year before and it's a one and a half spin. And so I was skating this ramp that was actually a lot bigger than most ramps in that time but allowed you to get more air time yeah and i figured out how to spin 720 on that ramp and then the next stage of that would be

with the 900 but but the 900 is a big step forward because you are blind to your landing zone twice. Ah. And that changes everything in terms of your comfortability and also just your spatial awareness. Like everything is, it just changes. Right. And your chance of being horribly injured too. Are very good. Yeah.

Yeah. So I started trying it a few years later but i just couldn't figure out the right spinning technique um and then uh i would say somewhere around 1994 i started to get a little better at it and actively try yeah and then i got hurt uh in 1996 i broke a rib when i finally tried to make it i was i all the pieces, oh, I thought, and I put it on the wall, and then I was leaning too far forward, and I broke a rib. And that was sort of like, okay, maybe it's not possible. And there were a few other people trying it. So fast forward to that X Games, I only had one trick in mind to do that was my best trick at the time, not a 900. It was a version of a 720.

And I made that halfway into the event. So I had nowhere to go. Right. And then the on-site announcer who was a skater and knew my history, was like, let's see one of those 900 attempts. He literally said that. And I thought to myself, oh, man, like, not that trick again. Sorry, rib. And then I tried it and around

my third or fourth attempt, I really tried it just to show the crowd what an attempt would look like. Yeah. And then somewhere around the third or fourth attempt, something clicked that I was getting a consistent spin. I was getting a consistent speed and that had not happened before. It was usually like one out of five attempts where all systems go. This was every time I did it, everything was working. And so around the eighth or ninth attempt, I just tried to make it again. I thought if I'm going to break my rib again, it might as well be in this scenario. And I did the same thing. I fell forward, but I was okay. I see. And so then on my next attempt, I figured out how to shift my weight more to my back foot mid spin, which was the, that was it. That was

the, that was the tipping point and literally a tipping point. And then when I came down, I fell backwards. And so when I fell backwards, I thought, oh, split the difference. Yeah, yeah. And I made the next one. Wow. And that was, I mean, that night, you know, in terms of the sort of the excitement level and for me, the obsession of that trick, I was either going to make it that night or they were going to have to take me out in an ambulance.

Yeah. Like there was no just, there was no quitting. Uh-huh. And when, now this trick, when you're attempting this over all those years, are you with other people or are you trying to keep it secret? No, we were doing it. Like I think that there's a false narrative that we were all trying in secret. We're trying to be the first.

And there were only, I mean, at the time, there were only a handful of actual vert half pipes. Yeah. So the vert skaters were all skating. Yeah, we're all skating together. And there were actually other events that happened prior to X Games that were, they had a 900 challenge at one event where there was a half pipe that they were doing some exhibitions on. But then the shoe company said, okay, we're giving 10 grand to whoever can do a 900. And so there were about five of us

that were just trying it aimlessly. We didn't make it that night. Now, is that something? Because I don't know that much about... Is that something now that a lot of people can do? No, but they have gone further. So now that we have the bigger ramps and we have a new generation that that has come through skateboarding knowing that 900s are possible

right um tom sharr who's a one of the best vert skaters in the world he did a 1080 when he was young wow um and then uh mitchie brusco who is a young, they're young, they're all close to 30 now, but he did a 1260. Oh, wow. And no one, I mean, a couple of people did 1080s. I would say about maybe 10 people have done 900s. Three people did 1080s. One person has done a 1260. Wow.

That's where we're at. And what's going to limit it? I mean, you said, you know, the ramps are higher. Is there any difference in technology? Or is it just people being brave enough to know that it's possible to have the mindset? I think that something comes with knowing that this is possible when you've already started. Yeah. That someone has already reached this goal, so you can get there.

That's helped me in the past. But also that the resources, I mean, now you can try your first 900 into a foam pit. Lucky kids. Yeah, yeah. I didn't have any foam pits. I had hard concrete. Yeah, you should hang around the foam pit

and just tell those kids, you're a bunch of wusses. I did try. I tried to learn variations of the 900 into foam pits, but it didn't work out for me. In what way? You just? Like a different grab.

Yeah, yeah. You know, or a different style doing it. And even though I maybe could land one in the foam pit, I could never translate that to the actual rail. I see. I see. You've been doing this for so long and you're still you know you're still going and doing it and you know with a broken freaking femur um are there ever any days where you're like yeah just enough skateboarding you know I mean

maybe for the day but yeah yeah I don't see that I don't see that in terms of an ultimatum. Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah. And don't you have a son that's a professional skateboarder? My oldest son, yeah. Your oldest son now. And, I mean, was there advice that you could impart to him,

or did you kind of just leave it to him? Sure. Yeah, I was able to. I think it's more how he navigates the career of it that he's asked for my advice in the past. Sure. I mean, early on when he was very little, I was teaching him the basics of skating. Right. And then at some point I actually remember this day because he started to get, he started to get more advanced and his, his style of skating is more street oriented. So it's a lot of board flipping

and grinding on ledges and things like that. Yeah, yeah. And I remember him, I mean, this is for skaters only, but I remember him asking me, hey dad, can you do a kickflip to frontside tailslide? No, he's asked me, how do you do a kickflip to frontside tailslide?

And I was like, Riley, I'm honored you asked me that, but I can't do that. I don't know, yeah, yeah. And the fact that you're even considering learning that means that you're on your own. Right. You've reached a different stage. And how old is he at this point then? Probably about 11 or 12.

Wow. And then that was the moment where I was like, oh, he's just got his own thing. Yeah, yeah. And he has taken it ever since. Like, he does some fascinating- Is that really a moment of pride? Like, is it- It's really cool, yeah. About as. Like he's, you know, he does some fascinating. Is that really a moment of pride? Like, is it about as close as he could, you know? I mean, it's really cool, but it's also,

I think there was a lot of pressure on him having, obviously having the name Hawk and people just already expecting him or that somehow this has all been given to him. And he came out of it proving himself as truly an innovative and and skilled skater yeah do you worry about him getting hurt i mean is i mean he's gotten hurt through his life sure yeah but i mean but is it something where it you know where it's like really bothers you? Because I imagine it was rough on your parents to see you fall. It was, but also it was the 70s and 80s.

I'm just like, you know, oh, he rang his bell. You know what I mean? Yeah, we used to get that in football practice. You got your bell rung. Yeah, you got your bell rung. Oh, you mean a concussion. Okay, well, sit down for a few minutes and then we'll come back in. But I think it was more seeing him.

He had a string of ankle injuries that were really debilitating and he had to have a couple surgeries and broke his collarbone and I was there for that. And so he's definitely had his share, but I do think he has a good sense of his own limitations and and mortality yeah and having other children and other boys especially i've seen

that not all of them have a great sense of self-preservation yeah some of them are downright dumb about it yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's no sense of consequence. Right, right. There's just, I'm going to jump off the roof. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Do you have any kids that were kind of like, eh, about skating? My daughter is the only one who dabbled in it and then just left her.

It wasn't for her. Yeah, yeah. She had a, I think it was more that she was enjoying it and she was getting pretty good, especially for her age. And then at some point she looked around and was like, none of my friends skate. And I only skate with my dad. You know, and it was more like, I'm going to go play lacrosse. That's what she does. I'm going to be with my own age group.

How old is she now? She's 14. 14. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's a pretty own age group. How old is she now? She's 14. 14, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that's a pretty wicked sport too. There's a lot of mashed teeth in that. Yeah. That's not soft. Nothing so far, but she's enjoying it.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, is there things ahead of you that you want to do that, you know, now you have a documentary about you which i'm sure was a big goal all your for your whole life you know um are there things that that you know you haven't conquered that that still kind of are there i honestly trying to get back on my skateboard to a level that I am proud of has been the biggest challenge over the last year. And just from the leg, just from the leg. Yeah. Because I, because I had a false start with it. My bone never connected and then had a reset. And finally now I'm on the path to

more or less a full recovery. Yeah. But I would like to get back to at least a level of skating that I feel like I'm proud of, that is worthy of a professional. I don't think it's going to last forever, but I do feel like I'm capable of that. And so my goals are never, I don't have some great long-term aspirations. I want to keep promoting skate parks through our foundation and to uh build skate parks in underserved areas so that's close to my heart in fact uh uh soon i'm going to a skate park that we helped to fund in the navajo nation oh wow um we're gonna go to the grand opening and i'm very excited about that so that's great to do things like that and to help to help bring those types of facilities to kids all over, that's probably closest to my heart.

Yeah. If you don't get to that, you say you want to get back to that level that you feel kind of – if it doesn't happen, I mean, have you thought about what happens if it doesn't happen? Sure. I've had the last year to realize what that looks like. Sure. Sure. I've had the last year to realize what that looks like. Yeah. Um, it would, yeah, it would be more that I'd find something, some other outlet at least for my creativity or for my exercise. And, um, this last year has, has given me a lot more opportunity to skate, um, and to skate in public. And I don't need that necessarily to thrive. I see.

I mean, cause I imagine your life has always involved lots of travel and that's gotta be hard to keep a continuity at home. When I was a kid, I was, you know, even going to Florida was weird. Yeah. Like the food, the food is, the weather is weird.

You know what I mean? I was not some kid that was like, had wanderlust and I was like, I got to go see the world. It was just more like, this is scary.

Yeah, yeah. Europe, they don't have ice. You know what I mean? Are you still that way? No, no, no. I learned, I learned to appreciate

all that because I realized at some point that very few people get these opportunities and i should look around a little bit yeah and in those early days like it was just it was skate parks and hotels yeah and driving and that was it and that's all i really cared about right and now it's like what i'm going to chicago i want to go to alinea i want to go you know i want to go see the world and experience the culture isn't yeah yeah and you know how i got to do the the first skate demo in india wow and it was it wasn't like that was for the money it was just like hey here's an opportunity yes absolutely sign me up have you been all over the globe i mean are there

pretty much you haven't been to or i don't think so no wow that's amazing i did a i did a whole skate thing in sierra leone oh wow wow in ethiopia ethiopia actually has like a thriving skate scene oh wow who would have known yeah yeah that's great well what do you what do you think you know after doing this for so, how many years have you been skating? Good question. 40 plus. Wow. Do you know anybody else who's been doing it that long and still actively skating as long as you? Well, one of my best friends, Kevin Staub, yeah.

He's still, yeah, yeah. And Steve Caballero, who was the up-and-coming star, when I first got on the scene. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, I took a lot of inspiration from him because he was small for his age. And so was I, and I saw these photos of him flying in magazines and I was like, you can do that when you're little. I want to do that. Seems like when you're little, it would be a good, you know, a good time. Yeah. But you don't have the strength really to get that kind of speed.

But I saw him doing it and I was like, well, it's possible. Yeah, yeah. What advice do you have for people? What kind of lesson do you want people to take away from your life? You're like watching this movie. I mean, you got – I think the lesson, well, just from a more general perspective is follow your passion. Yeah.

You know, it doesn't have to be the most financially successful thing you do. But if you love what you do, that's living the dream. Yeah. And I chased it through thick and thin. Yeah. But it wasn't for financial reasons or for fame. It was just more that this is what I love doing. And sometimes I make a lot of money at it.

Sometimes I don't make anything. But I still get to do it. So that's fine. I mean, it's really kind of amazing that for 40 years, you are still kind of in love with this thing. Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, that's a real gift. I think I was skating at my ramp yesterday alone. kind of in love with this thing. Oh yeah, for sure. That's, I mean, that's a real gift, you know? Yeah.

I think I was skating at my ramp yesterday alone and we were shooting a little video thing, but it was pretty minimal. And I realized like, this is what I love doing. Like I'm just here on my ramp by myself. Right. You know, trying, I was trying the Sean Penn. It's a trick. Sure.

This is my happy place. Does it involve hitting on aid workers in Haiti? I knew it was going to feel like that. Is that, is that what the, no, you know what it is? A Sean Penn,

this is, we're getting deep cuts here, but there's a trick called a Madonna. Oh, wow. Which I created in 1985. And then it's, it's the trick used at the front side direction.

Were you trying to get her attention? No, I was trying to make a trick. I was honestly trying to make a trick that other pros would want to do. And my friend who was a pro skater, he said, well, you have to name it something trendy. And that was 1985.

So Madonna was trendy thing. But then not long after, I learned how to do the trick backside. And so a backside Madonna is a Sean Penn. That's a Sean Penn. I see. There you go. I see.

That's your skate lesson. Thank you. Thank you very much. Well, yeah, I mean, is that love of skating, like, is that, have you had to, like, in any way, is it always there? Is it always been there? My passion for skating it always there is it is it always been there is it something my passion for skating is always there maybe not from from my physical act of skating yeah but for skating yeah to see the rise of skating to see the appreciation of skating yeah to see that it's just permeated

mainstream culture now yeah is something that i am very excited about and excited that I get to live to see that and still be part of it. Yeah. Cause I know, cause I mean, I just don't know what is the, what's the secret to like being in love with an activity for 40 years? Like, is there, or is it just, is it just love? Is it as inexplainable as love? Yeah. I mean, I guess, I guess at the core, I'm just a skate rat. So I grew up doing it at a time when it wasn't cool. I loved everything that I experienced through that. The culture, the music, the attitudes, the pioneers. And then to see how those pioneers today are still revered.

And now skateboarders in the Olympics. Yeah. And kids aspire to be professional skateboarders. Yeah. That didn't happen when I was a kid. Right. Who wanted to be a pro skateboarder? Right.

You're going to kill yourself to win $50 first place at a big event? Like, yes. Yeah. That's still how I feel about it. That's great. Well, Tony, thank you so much for coming in uh and uh the uh the the documentary is on uh hbo right yes you co-host the podcast hawk versus wolf with jason ellis yep who uh i just i know jason ellis from because he used to go on the

howard stern show right all the time And he just seems like a maniac. Is he still a maniac? Yes, but he's more refined. Oh, yes. A classy maniac. Maniac would definitely still be a good title for him. Awesome. But he and I grew up skating together.

And even though we're very different, we have a lot of, um, we have a lot of alignment and I think that we, we play well of each other. So, uh, I promise that if you listen to our podcast, you'll laugh. Okay. And I mean, and do you guys, is it just you guys shooting the shit? Uh, yeah, but we also, we also have a lot of guests, like, um, have a lot of guests i guess like um we just had david spade on the other day oh wow uh seth rogan um we had uh we had the undertaker oh wow that was the wrestler well yeah he's you know it happened yeah yeah it's his brother kane that didn't speak so okay yeah yeah all right well tony thanks again for uh for coming out and and hanging with me and And thank you out there for listening. I'll be back next week. Thank you. engineered by Rob Schulte. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel.

Executive produced by Joanna Salitaroff, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Maddie Ogden. Research by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts.