The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Zoe Lister-Jones

Episode Date: April 18, 2023

Zoe Lister-Jones (Beau is Afraid, Slip) joins Andy Richter to discuss her new series "Slip" on Roku, LA vs NYC, learning from David Mamet, working with Jon Glaser, and much more.

Hi, everyone. We're starting, by the way, just so you know. That was the beginning. I thought that's just how you said hello to me. Hello, everyone, to the three people in this room that aren't me. I mean, I assume there's three. Someone could be hiding. Right.

I am talking today with Zoe Lister-Jones, who I think is best known for being the wife character on Delocated. John Glazer's girlfriend. John Glazer's girlfriend. Oh, was it not wife or was it just girlfriend? It wasn't wife-ied. Oh, wow.

No, no, no. And then eventually I was killed classically. Famously. You have to. You have to. If you don't know, the show Delocated was Adult Swim, correct? And it stars the amazingly funny John Glazer, who was a Conan writer for many years. Again, I mean, he peaked early.

But he's done such funny stuff. And that was the first time I'd ever seen you. And at that point, too, because I think I knew everyone else in that show, that I was like, who is this woman? How did she sneak in? Yeah, women have no place in comedy. No, they do not.

Yeah, especially alt comedy. Mm-mm, no. I was quite a young thing on that show. Oh, really? Just getting my start. How young were you? I feel like I was like 24. Oh, wow.

Or something. Yeah, it was one of my first real gigs. Yeah, yeah. Which was exciting. And was it like, because it was such a weird show. Oh, so weird. Were you, I mean, was that formative for you? Like, were you like,

it's all going to be this weird? Cause you know, it's not, it's like, it's which, I mean, for me to have that be one of my first jobs, I would be so spoiled because I would just be like, it's all weird. And then you get in, it's like, Oh no, a lot of it's kind of not weird. Yeah. Hot trash, hot, boring trash. Yeah. Yeah. Um. Yeah, I was totally spoiled by it. It was the most fun. And John is one of the funniest people ever. And yeah, it was. It was every cool, funny person on that show. Yeah.

And it was like early Adult Swim. Yes. So there was also like John was given so much room to just make the weirdest thing possible. Nobody knew what the hell was happening. Yeah, yeah. It was like, okay, sure. Well, you're, and you are a New Yorker. You were born and raised in New York City.

Do you feel like there's something that, like when you meet other New Yorkers, is there like a kinship? Like, is there something that you all share? Do you think that it's just sort of. Paranoia and suspicion. Is it really? Yeah. Well, I feel like anyone who says they're from New York is immediately sus to a New Yorker. Right.

Because you're like, are you from Westchester? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's a lot of, you know, we've got, yeah. So, so that, and then there's questions. And then once you find out someone's actually from a borough. Right. Then I think there is an immediate kinship. But is there like a hierarchical sort of,

like if you find out someone's from the Upper East Side and you're from Brooklyn, are you like, oh, well, fuck you. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. There is a hierarchy to the boroughs for sure. Although now they're all sort of equally expensive and impossible to live in.

But yeah, I do take a great amount of pride in being a native New Yorker. And I swore to myself I would never live in L.A. And then I got here and I was like, this place rocks. Life doesn't have to be hard all the time. Was that a – were you here to stay here for any amount of time or was it just upon your first visit you felt that way? You know, I went to NYU to acting school and Of course. Yeah. I'm trained. They say that about dogs too. I'm trained. I do sleep in a cage and I'm in massive debt. If you put down a pad, I'll pee on it. Yeah.

And I was told by like a guest teacher to never go to L.A. Like never move to L.A. unless you had a job. And I took it very seriously. So I had moved here when I got Whitney Cummings had a sitcom on NBC and I got that gig. And so I moved here for that. Yeah. And then never left. Oh, really?

Yeah. And did you maintain your place in New York and then had to get rid of it? I got rid of it. Yeah. And then I bought a place here. And then I would just, I still, I go back to New York and I'm like a weird LA evangelist that nobody wants to hang out with because I'm like, you guys, you've got to see what's going on over there. It does seem – I mean, because I was on the other side of it in New York and would hear people sort of badmouth L.A.

And I mean, it's like – it's also – it's like kind of like – it's like picking on a beautiful dumb person. Like, you know, it's like neither one of those things are their fault you know it's like it's like yeah of course this place is phony of course and of course you know there's kind of a hollowness an edge an edge that you lose because the weather's nice that's right and because you because you can, you know, I mean, not so much anymore, but like when I first came out here, you could be broke and have a nice existence because the weather's nice. That's right. You know, and you could get a like a little shitty house somewhere that had a backyard and get a dog and, you know, have a really kind of decent life. Totally.

Get a dog and, you know, have a really kind of decent life. Totally. One time I did a movie in New Zealand. Was it Lord of the Rings? No. Oh, my God, I wish. Not that shitty Hobbit. Lord of the Rings, yes.

No, it was called Aliens in the Attic. It was a kid's movie about aliens that attack. I believe deeply in aliens. Yeah. Well, these were just little CGI puppets. Oh, they weren't real aliens? Yeah, they weren't real aliens. I believe in casting authentic aliens. Winners win.

Representation does matter. Representation should happen. No, but when I was in New Zealand, one of our drivers was this young woman from Australia. And I would always hear about this sort of rivalry between New Zealand and Australia. And I asked her, I said, you know, what about this rivalry? And she said, I think Australians are largely unaware of it. And I was like.

That's good. That's kind of. Thank you. Yeah. I was like, that's kind of the way LA is. Like, LA is largely unaware of, like, nobody shits on New York. No. You wouldn't dare. Yeah. And it just seems defensive and weird in this kind of, at this remove.

Yeah. Yeah. Although now I feel like there's, like, a lot of artists from New York moving to L.A. because it's a more manageable existence. And there's a burgeoning art scene. Listen to me. I immediately go into evangelizing. I'm like, you know, L.A. isn't—have you been to Erewhon? Do you like money?

Because you better have it if you're going to go to Erewhon. Because you can burn it at a health food store in five minutes. Wait, when did you move here? I moved here in, well, I mean, I had lived here in like, you know, I was doing a show here and I lived here for like, I think like nine or ten months. And then I came back for close to a year. And then I went to New York to do the Conan show. So it was kind of back and forth. But I lived in New York long enough that I felt like New York had become my home.

And after I moved here, when I would go to New York, there was this feeling of like, ah, I'm back home. But after a while, that dwindled. And also New York changed, too. It got so crowded. I mean, and I sound like a crabby old man. I mean, it's crowded. But I mean like.

I know what you mean, Andy. In Chelsea. Like between 9th and 10th avenues, you could probably lay down on the sidewalk and nobody would step over you for three hours. And now it's like, you know, there's hat boutiques and stuff like that. You know, it's. Fucking hats. I know.

Fucking hats are everywhere. And I have a large head. I can't wear them, so I feel triggered. Particularly triggered in New York. Yes. Yeah. By all the hat stuff. Yeah.

The chapeau-ism. It is really... I do find that, like, if I go to see the theater, walking through, like, Times Square or the theater district is like, it does feel crazier than it's ever been. There's just a lot more people because it's safer and nicer. They did sanitize, especially Times Square. It is sanitized. So, yeah, there's more people there.

I'm not saying I want porno theaters back. And you can tell them all saying I want porno theaters back. And that quote could be taken out of context and we could just say that Andy just said, I want porno theaters back. I long for the days of... I do miss the smut and grit of New York City a bit. You do? Yeah. I mean, I grew up there in the 80s

and it was cool. It was scarier, but it was cool. And you grew up in brooklyn and your parents are kind of artsy fartsy right they are they're fartsy artists yeah um yeah a lot of gas issues but they do make art um and uh yeah my my mom's a video artist and my dad is a conceptual photographer okay um no follow-up questions um and uh I'll wait till you're gone and then we'll make big fun of them. Yeah.

So I was raised in like the art world in New York, which I think sort of made me not want to be an artist for a while. Yeah. Because it was just such a grind. And it was like nasty and competitive just like all all of these other arty farty industries. And was it like, did your parents struggle to make a living? Yeah, they were broke and they never made a living off their art. So they always had other jobs. And so their art was kind of compromised.

And I saw how painful that was. I was like, I don't want to be an artist. I want to do something where I can make a living. Yeah. But then, look at me now. Look at you now. I'm shopping in health food stores.

I'm living in LA. Yeah, my son, my son's 22 and he is a very talented artist and we got him teachers and, you know, camps and all this kind of stuff. And he was probably 14 when he – because he saw these really talented artists that were teaching him and saw that they were teaching him rather than going and doing art.

Yeah. And some of them would kind of share a little bit about – and my son at an early age was like, oh, I want to do studio art so interesting yeah yeah how kids pick up on that yeah and he just was and I mean not that he wants an MBA or anything right he's like yeah I know I'll draw and I'll do art and he said but I just I don't want to be in that studio art world and when it came time to go to college he didn't you know we would go visit colleges and they'd say, look, if you want to get your BFA, you better get ready to be painting all the time. Which to say that to an 18, 17, 18 year old kid, he's like, I don't want to paint all the time. It's like, I do appreciate the candor, but I think it's also fucked up to be like so fear mongering to art students. I found that in acting school like

a lot of my acting teachers were like you're never gonna make it kid you know and it's like it's hard enough let us at least in in school have the dream well and then you get a little bit removed from it and you realize who your teachers are yeah why why many not all of them but why many of them are teaching and how that's a prejudice that is bleeding through. Totally. Because I went to film school and it was kind of the same thing. Where'd you go? I went to Columbia College in Chicago.

And you were taught by film professionals, which going into it, like, okay, that's cool. And then when you're doing it, you're like, yeah, I am being taught by film professionals. And then, you know, like you get an internship and you kind of get out and you're like, sort of film professionals. Those are some bobos. Yeah. Like there's they're like, you know, like one of them held a boom mic for the males brother, males brothers, you know, 20 years before. And that's like, OK, all right. Great.

You were part of it. You know, you do need to go somewhere to learn to do this stuff, you know. And I wanted to ask you because you went to like the Royal Academy of Dramatic whatever. Arts. Yeah, yeah. Raja. And now what's that? Because you went to NYU.

Did you go directly to? It's not as impressive when I really tell the story. Well, that's what we're here for. It was like it was an NYU exchange program. So it was like, it was a broad, but NYU had a partnership with RADA in London. So I went for a semester my senior year at NYU, but it was quite competitive to get into. And it was all, yeah, Shakespeare, like sort of classical training in London. And I'm super grateful. Like I have totally applied that technique to sitcom acting.

I'm really, yeah, it was really important. It was either Macbeth or Whitney. One or the other. Similar figures in some ways. Yeah. But no, it was cool. And it was such a cool time to be living in London. Yeah.

That really I was part of this party. What year was it? What year was it? It was 2003. Oh, right. Okay. So it was like height of great music and cool clubs. Yeah, yeah.

And also before London changed. And they just drank over there. They sure do. Just all the time. Yeah. It. Also before London changed. And they just drank over there. They sure do. All the time. It's like Wisconsin times two. Well, now, you say you apply those techniques because I have been paid to act, so therefore, technically, I am an actor. We acted on a show together. Which one?

Didn't we? Oh, yeah. Life in Pieces. On Life in Pieces, but we weren't in the same deal, were we? No. I think we were on the same set. We didn't have. I saw you there that day.

Yeah, we saw each other. Right, right, right. And I will always remember that shoot because it was the day Barack Obama was elected. Oh, my God. That was one of the days that I worked. That's so crazy. That's a long time ago. It sure was.

Yeah. And Adam Baldwin, who is a big right winger, was on the show. And I just got to drag him in the makeup trailer the next day. Wait, that's amazing. I was just like, oh, so good job there, buddy. Enjoy the next few years. Although I will in that episode. Oh, no, that was.

I'm sorry. I'm getting it all confused. I'm getting it all confused. Never mind. It was the I'm talking about the wrong show. Right. Because I was like, no, I'm thinking of the show. Oh, what the name?

What was the name? It was like a goofy spy show starring the guy that's Shazam, I think. Oh, Chuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was right off the dome. You really, you're a Chuck Stan, huh? Chuck! He does that all the time in line at Starbucks.

Somebody's like, did you see Chuck? No, it was Chuck that I'm thinking of. And Adam Baldwin played an agent on that. And I was an agent. And I don't know why I thought, why I come. Because I'm old. Well, what's interesting is that I'm old enough that I just believed you. And I was like, absolutely.

Yeah, I think I was. Because I don't think I was on that show when Barack Obama was elected. No, you weren't. But I absolutely was like here for it. I was like, I think I was. Because I don't think I was on that show when Barack Obama was elected. No, you weren't. But I absolutely was like here for it. It's really all wrong. I guess I was. Okay, now we have to leave it in. No, that is embarrassing.

No, because Life in Pieces was maybe 10 years ago? Again, you know, this whole thing. It's gone. It's completely gone. But no, I think we ended it like four years ago and we were on for four years. So yeah, like eight years ago we started. Yeah, yeah.

We were there when Trump was elected on that show. Oh, right, right. Oh, that's why I'm getting it confused because it was, oh my God, it was still an election night and it was the one that Hillary Clinton lost. Yes. And I was there the day before and the day after.

Nightmare. No, that day was so intense because we all came in, we all left the night before as so many of us. Thinking we're going to get our first woman president. Yeah, we were so excited. We all went to parties to celebrate Hillary. Yeah. And then, yeah, came into the makeup. The makeup trailer is a particularly bleak place to, like, realize that you're entering a fascist dictatorship.

Well, yeah, because the makeup trailer is, it's like the most volatile place on the set. Oh, yeah. And I mean, because it can be absolutely wonderful. And like, it can be a place of refuge and comfort and reassurance. And then it can also be an absolute cuckoo bird factory. Oh, yeah. And I don't just mean the actors. I mean, like, half of the people working in that makeup trailer are nuts.

Yeah, because it's a gossip hive yeah yeah and it's where people it's also therapy session yes and it's where a lot of yeah because you're sitting you sit there for a long time hours hours yeah i've always dreamed of um yeah because like those mornings being on that show for four years it was mostly like 4 30 a.m uh wake up wake up times for a baby. And I always fantasized about sort of being in like a Hannibal Lecter, like sleeping in a sort of Hannibal Lecter like cot that then could just be lifted and then wheeled. Right, right. And I would stay asleep, all of the hair and makeup would be done,

and then they'd wheel me to set, and then on action I would be. Yeah, they'd unstrap the Velcro. Yeah, really. And you'd be, you'd unstrap the Velcro. Yeah, really. And you'd be... You'd go right for someone's face. That's right. Yeah, yeah. That's right.

Yeah, I mean, it's... Well, it's just so much worse. Like, they don't really care that much how men look, but I mean, you know. I mean, I remember... Before we started shooting Andy Richter controls the universe. The two female regular actors in it sat in the hair and makeup trailer all day, having their hair made into different styles, a Polaroid taken of it. And then it it like scuttled up to executives so they could all, and it felt so, and of course it was all male executives.

It felt so like, like, you know, wiki feet. It felt like, like all these guys are like, yeah, yeah. That's what I like. Yeah. Helga braid. Give me another Helga braid. Put a Helga braid on both of them. You know, it was so weird.

And I kept coming in and out and I was like, you guys are still here. And they're like, yep. It's so weird. And I kept coming in and out. And I was like, you guys are still here? And they're like, yep. It's so fucked. Now I'm doing an updo, you know? I was once on a movie where the studio said that I could only wear open-toed shoes. Talk about wicky feet. Wow. Yeah.

Open-toed heels. Do you have particularly nice toes? Well, you know, I fucking do. Yeah. Open-toed heels. Do you have particularly nice toes? Well, you know, I fucking do, yeah. But I didn't know the studio was aware of that. Right, exactly. Your agent probably told them, by the way, check out the feet. You like shrimp?

You will love these. But it was like, those arbitrary obsessions with women's appearance is so fucked. A director I worked with once said he sat behind a studio head during the studio casting when it's like down to the – for people, it's like the casting process, you get down to the finals and you're in front of the studio or the network or whatever. And you're down to the four people and you come in and you perform in front of all of them. And then they all go, thank you. And then you go sit outside and they send three people home and one person gets a wheelbarrow full of money. It's like real life survivor.

Like real life survivor. This director I know who was a prince and is a prince and a sweetheart watched a studio head watch an actress. And then the little notes he was jotting down, you know, like where he jot down, you know, blonde, red hair or whatever, you know, you know, red shirt. He wrote, I wouldn't fuck her. No. That was his note to himself to remember on this actress's performance. It's a great business, kid. Rush out here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rush out here as quick as you can and get in on this. Christ. Can't you tell my loves are growing? Well, I forgot. I got off track because i was gonna say explain what this what when you say you brought these techniques of rata to the rest of your work i mean what are they teaching you because i mean i took a couple of acting classes in college but i don't i still just ended up when i get a job and like if i'm supposed to be sad I go well you know how you be sad you know

yeah yeah yeah well I mean I went so before Radha I went to David Mamet's acting school in his garage in his garage and um and they were very much like about strong distinction between the actor and the character. So there are like some acting schools where you sort of become your character. You like Daniel Day-Lewis. And then there are others that are like, you are not your character. And that was very much my training at NYU, which was a little like too heady for me. And also they were very much like, you had to break down every scene and figure out your

motivation. And then we would have and we all took it so seriously. And then we would have like guest classes with like working actors come and everyone would be like, what's your technique? How do you like break down a scene? And they'd be like, no, I don't. Yeah, no, I don't. I just show up and say the lines and hit my mark and um go home so that was uh sort of devastating but also liberating but at rata it was a lot about um

sort of finding meaning in the language and on and unpacking text which i do think uh is really helpful especially when you're auditioning as an, you sort of have to be your own director and have to find clues in the text. And if you're auditioning for something big time, you don't even get a script sometimes. So you have to just figure out in the scene who you're... I am in Ari Aster's new film.

He directed Midsommar and Hereditary as a Genius. And I didn't get... I wasn't able to read the whole script. So my audition was just based off of like the weirdest scene of all time. But those techniques did come in handy because I was sort of like looking for clues in the text and figuring out how to play. Do you worry that you might be wrong? You know what I mean? Yeah. Because you could read a scene and think like this person's nuts. And you find out like no no this person is actually the most sane person in

the whole thing you know what i mean yeah but you got to make a choice yeah so if you play it nuts then yeah that's true i guess they can always come back and be like you did play nuts well yeah yeah but play this person may have not not nuts're like, that's just my personality. Well, that auditioning is always you make a choice, and then it's like you might whiff it. It's like, oops. Most of the time, well. Yeah, I made a choice to be this kind of thing,

to do it this way, and I don't think that's – it's such a weird process. Because half the time I think they make up their mind when you put your face in the door. For sure. For sure. I had a friend who, when I was just starting as an actor, was like, you know what? I like to bring a prop to an audition.

And she was like, a killer prop to bring, regardless of the audition, is a nasal inhaler. Oh, wow. She was using it to sort of punctuate comedy. But that is a fucking choice. But she booked. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I had a friend who, I mean, she's still my friend,

and her technique was to audition in the afterglow of a bathroom stall orgasm. I've heard about this. Yeah. I've heard. Basically, she jerked off before every audition. And you know who she is. She's very successful. That's the powers of O.

That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. I've heard about like almost coming. Oh, really? That you're just like edging your way into the audition. And then the audition is really the. Right, right. And when they see you've got the part.

Oh, you're hurting my arm. Oh, thank you. I was, I ran into someone recently who like I'm now a huge fan of and Paul McCartney. Well, we won't name names. And no. And she was like, we actually I like introduce myself. I was like, I'm such a big fan. She's like, we actually were we've met before.

We were auditioning in the same room and you came into the bathroom after i had taken a huge shit and i was so embarrassed and actually when she mentioned that i was like i know exactly who you are yeah really that time like i knew she was now but i was like i remember walking into that right right hole oh God bless her. I love that. She told you that rather than just like, you know, it was amazing. You know, as I mentioned, JLo's dumps are incredible.

It's not like perfume. Yeah. They got, you know, like, like, yeah. Like cumin was a perfume kind of,

uh, well, when growing up in Brooklyn, uh, you are a self-described weirdo. Oh, thank God. That's no, I mean, I didn't remember-described weirdo. Oh, yeah. Thank God.

Cool. No, I mean. I didn't remember that I described myself that way. Yeah, yeah. It's even in quotes, described herself as a weirdo when she was 18. She loves ska music. That's. Not so weird.

More sad. And shaved her head. Shaved her head in the seventh grade. Yeah, yeah. What was that about? Well, I don't, you know, I think I that about well i don't you know i think i was like i don't think i realized i think i was doing it actually to make myself invisible to men i think in retrospect at the time i was just like this is cool and i was like buying a lot of you

know vintage clothes and wearing like polyester suits and i i had like those little wisp bangs. It was a pretty intense look. And as you mentioned from the internet, I did love ska music. But I'd like to just clarify, not like real big fish ska or like mighty mighty boss. I'm talking special selector. You know. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Thank you so much, Andy. But yeah, so I think in some ways that probably was it because it was like right as I was like going through puberty. Yeah. But it then brought me so much more attention. But I mean, bad attention. I was just made fun of and bullied in school.

I have noticed that from having a daughter and, you know, having kids that little girls are, you know, like, you know, all daughter and you know having kids that little girls are you know like you know all different you know but like they could be sort of like crazy weirdo all over the place and then puberty hits and it's like stop looking at me everyone stop and then that's when the baggy you know totally like both of my children could wear my clothes three of them could wear my clothes and both of them when they hit clothes. And both of them, when they hit puberty, started being like, I'd be like, where's my sweater? And oh, she wore it to school, you know. That's amazing.

She could, you know, wear it over her backpack. Yeah, it is. It's such an intense time, I think. It's such an intense time, I think, because, yeah, you just get to be hanging out like a regular person. Then suddenly, when you're not at all prepared for it, you're an object of lust. Absolutely. Uninvited lust. And you're like, what the fuck? I didn't ask for this.

Yeah, yeah. So I think I was really, I dressed in sort of like leisure suits and I was really going for it. But it made like the older kids like me because they thought I was cool. So then I had a lot of older friends who would do, yeah. Do you think you were kind of more mature than kids your age anyway? Yeah, because I was an only child. So I was hanging out with adults almost exclusively um and i liked adults like i would choose to at barn bot mitzvahs i was like oh god

i gotta get out of here like i gotta get back to the art galleries with my parents um but i do think i was yeah it's a weird also brooklyn like you would think Brooklyn would be a haven for weirdos, but it's just as mean. Well, I also saw too that you were like, you were part of a conservative synagogue and that you were kind of, your mom, wasn't your mom kind of? My mom was the president of the synagogue, but it was conservative egalitarian. So it means that like we had a woman rabbi and we had a woman cantor. So conservative, but not conservative. In Judaism, it's like there are different sects. There's like Orthodox, which is like super evangelical intensity.

Then there's conservative, which is like more Hebrew forward. And then reform is like a lot more English. And so we were like a Hebrew forward synagogue, but groovy. Oh, I see. You know, so we had. So shaving your head is not, because for me,

strict religion means strict everything. No, this was a very cool, yeah, like all of our God language was gender neutral. Oh, wow. We would like say instead of he or Lord or King, ruler or just use God. Oh, wow. So I was raised like with a real hyper focus on that kind of stuff. My mom is an amazing woman and feminist. And so it was cool.

It was a really cool way. Like I love Judaism, I think, because of it. Because I didn't have that punitive aspect or an aspect that was hateful or was promoting hateful rhetoric or exclusive practices. And it was a very like queer community in my synagogue. I grew up in Park Slope, which, yeah, it was really cool. And my mom was, yeah, president of the synagogue. I had a shaved head at my bat mitzvah. Oh, wow.

Wow. Nice. Yeah. It was a real, it was a time. Are you still, like, do you think of yourself as a religious person? I very much identify as a Jew, but I, and yes, I guess I do because I don't have like the knee jerk reaction to the idea of religion that a lot of my friends and contemporaries do. I think because of my upbringing, I understand like the negative impacts that religious institutions have. But I guess I like, oh, God, this is gonna make me sound really LA.

I consider myself a spiritual person. Oh, we know. More than religious. And I'd like to lead everybody in just a quiet prayer. She's been smoking a big sage stogie the entire time. Yeah, but I guess I do. And going to synagogues still, like with my mom, and there's a cool synagogue here that has this amazing woman rabbi named Sharon Brouse, who was Obama's rabbi. Wow.

Yeah, famously. You gotta have one. Every president's gotta have a rabbi. So, yeah, there are really cool Jewish communities that I'm proud to be a part of. Do you believe in God? famously gotta have one gotta every every president's gotta have a rabbi um so like yeah there are really cool jewish communities that i'm like proud to be a part of do you believe in god i do you do yeah do you uh no i don't i don't i think well i have to go um i don't feel comfortable here uh no i don't i uh i read some you know i remember reading a a definition of agnosticism which is just that i mean it's basically it's sort of like all of those kinds of questions are unknowable so why

bother yeah and that's kind of where i'm at i just sort of feel like i don't think anybody's really in the sky looking and keeping track of yeah of whether you're doing good or bad and no i don't think anybody's really in the sky looking and keeping track of whether you're doing good or bad. No, I don't believe that. Yeah. I was like, my mom raised me with a much more unconventional definition of God, which is just like, oh, God, I'm going to sound like such a chump. But just sort of that like. No, you're not. Like God is everywhere.

God was never a man in the sky yeah in my upbringing um but that like god is nature or like we find moments of enlightenment that can feel godlike in ourselves or in our lives or in our communities and that that definition of god is one that is much more digestible oh yeah i think i mean there's obviously something magical going on yeah um but i just don't a i don't it doesn't i don't uh interface with it right you know i don't feel like i don't feel i i feel like there's a lot of chaos and it's a lot of beautiful chaos and the fact that you know given the you know like the notion, and I can't, I remember from a science class, you know, that the conditions that existed on the early formation of the earth, you know, oxygen ends up, you know,

you electrify this, whatever, you know, whatever elements were floating around, you electrify it, you know, they cause electrical storms, you electrify them, oxygen gets made, and then eventually carbon gets made. And then it all just, you know, like life is an inevitability. And there's some magic in that. But I don't know how I'm supposed to do anything with that other than be nice to people. Right. You know? I think that is sort of part of it.

I guess that's like one of the better functions of religion is like an idea of a karmic balance. Yeah. better functions of religion is like an idea of a karmic balance. Yeah. And also like some idea that there's a higher power, which I do believe, like there are too many cosmic coincidences for there not to be some sort of, I'm a little woo-woo. But, you know, I do think that. Yeah.

And, I mean, Instagram is my God. And there are lots of connections. I don't think God is a man in the sky, but it Instagram is my God. And there are lots of connections. I don't think God is a man in the sky, but it is on my phone. You have a hashtag religion. Just that there are hashtags that occur over and over and over. Isn't that crazy? That's cosmic. That's absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. can't you tell my love's a girl you you touched on it in that you have been writing and directing your own stuff for a while now and um and i i'm i'm interested is that something you always intended to do like when you set out to be an actress did you also say and I'm also going to write and I'm also going to direct yeah you did well not direct but I knew I wanted to write I had been writing like my whole life and I and I loved writing prose and poetry um but I and then slogans that was what I just really had copy just like from a kid. I have all these crayon, like, you know, like Massengill ads and stuff. Yeah.

We all find our way into it in different ways. We do. We do. Yeah. That's my muse. Capitalism. Yep. Capitalism is your muse.

Sales, baby. It's all of our muse. Yeah. So I knew that I wanted to write. And then I wrote something in college. I was in a sketch comedy class. And I wrote, I started to write my own sketches in that class. And David Mamet came, like when David Mamet would come to, he'd like drop in because he was never there.

But when he would drop in, everyone would just leave, like stop what they were doing and go put up some scene in front of him. And he was. Oh, so this was, was he like, is he still do this at NYU? Is he sort of like. I think he still drops in. It's like, it's like a department. It's like the Tisch School of the Arts within, under. Yeah. Like they have different conservatory. I see. Schools. So there's like the Atlantic Theater Company, which is, he founded with William H. Macy. And then there's like the Experimental Theater Wing. There's Meisner. There's Stella Adler. So he would he wasn't he was a figurehead, but he would drop in and I put up a sketch

and he was notoriously like cruel. Yeah. And so he'd make people sit. They were all putting up, you know, scenes from famous plays. And I put up my sketch and he let me get through it. And he said, you should write a movie. And that was like, yeah. Sometimes it's just like those ones, like you just need to hear it once.

Yeah. And at 19 or 20 to have. Yeah. Especially like such a prickly pear. Oh, yeah. David Mamet to say something nice. No, I mean it. I mean it too.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, because he's like, yeah, he's notoriously crotchety, but obviously talented and obviously has written some wonderful things. Yeah. So yeah. To have him go, yeah, you should be a writer. That's, you know, that's gotta be really powerful. It was, it was powerful. And I did. And then I wrote like a, did everyone hate you? not the students the teachers I had one teacher that hated me for that and he was my sketch comedy teacher and he actually like almost failed me like it was so intense that year because I think that yeah his god yeah his mammoth god had um had taken another wow I don't know, muse or something.

But yeah, so then I started to write once I graduated. I wrote my own, started to write my own material. But directing took longer. And I think that is because I always felt as a writer, like I understood my voice, but I felt under-trained as a writer, like I understood my voice, but I felt under trained as a director. And I think especially for women like that is a world that feels intimidating, that will be questioned in a different way about our expertise. And so I waited a really long time.

And then, again, just one person was like, why aren't you directing? Because I was working with my ex-husband at the time. We made a lot of films together that we were co-writing and he was directing. And this woman producer who I really respected was like, but why aren't you directing? And it just took that question. I was like, why am I not directing? And so then I directed, I wrote and directed my first film called Band-Aid. And that sort of set me on the path of but but I still you

know it is still a real learning curve and I think that is such an important thing to um accept as an artist is that like you're never going to know anything so you should just try you know um and that we all are learning so much on the job. And even the greatest auteurs are like still figuring things out. Right. I, you know, I was in some shows with my ex-wife and stuff too, but I always have been leery of working with my domestic partner. Rightfully so. And how did that evolve? We both have ex-wives. No, I'm just kidding. Rightfully so. And how did that evolve? We both have ex-wives.

No, I'm just kidding. I love him. We're still very close. Yeah. But I mean, was that when it started, did you have any trepidation about like spending all day working with someone and then going home and the fear that everything at home would all be work and vice versa yes and it was i mean especially in in in the world of like guerrilla indie filmmaking which is what we were doing like it's just non-stop there's no way to not be working sure when you get home because it's just a million the just the producerial aspects of it are so intensive. So yeah, it was definitely challenging. And we were writing highly personal work.

Our first film was called Breaking Up Words, and it was the story of our open relationship, and we were playing ourselves in it. So it was totally psychotic. So you were playing Zoe? Yeah, and he was Daryl. Wow. But we cast all these people around us.

What were you kids thinking? Oh, it was nuts. And we made it for 15 grand. Wow. And, and like had a crew of three and, and then it opened so many doors for us as filmmakers.

But it was definitely, yeah, it was definitely challenging. We tried to like set like a 10 PM rule or something to stop talking about work when we got home. But there's something amazing about working with a partner. Like because then you're sharing language and you're sort of birthing. I mean, I don't have children, but I feel that all of our films were sort of our children. But yeah, it's so challenging.

Yeah. And then challenging to individuate as an artist also, which I had to do. Yeah, I can imagine. And I also too imagine to do a film about your open relationship. That's like open twice. Like you're opening up twice, you know? So, I mean, was it hard at the time to not just get where any press that you do was just like, so? It was all that. And we became sort of like the non-monogamy. The swingers. Yeah, because it was like now.

The indie swingers. And we were the indie swingers. Yeah, like now, like polyamory and all the kids are doing it, you know. But we were. It's like just the energy that we take. My old joke is like, I only want to disappoint one person at a time. You know? Yeah, it's exhausting.

Are you still an advocate for polyamory? You know, I mean, listen, I support my polyamorous friends and community sisters um sister but but i do but i i think for me i'm not sure that i want to do that again yeah it is i think it really depends on like i've seen it work. I've seen it work-ish. The real question, like when it comes to monogamy and non-monogamy is like, monogamy is also difficult, right? So you're sort of weighing which one is more difficult. And monogamy is the one that is more socially acceptable. And there's also the taboo of being non-monogamous that you're dealing with, which is exciting. And also you can't really share. It feels a little bit isolated

because married friends are like, please don't talk about that in front of me and my husband. He wants to fuck our nanny. Well, you said yes to that hot nanny. Yeah. Well, you said yes to that hot nanny. woman who is basically fucking her way through the multiverse, but she's, and sort of landing in all of her, through orgasm, landing in all of her parallel lives and relationships. So she gets to see. That's a callback from the orgasm power. I know.

Yeah. Yes. Yes. I think that's the title of this episode is Orgasm Power. Yes, the power of the, you know, frankly, mythical female orgasm. Am I right, fellas? I mean, let's get real. Oh, wow. Oh, God. You said the multiverse because I'm watching a very compelling, very compelling show about kind of relationship on we and, you know, and kind of something that almost any married person can relate to of kind of like you love the person you're paired with the person. But, you know, you're restless. Yeah. you know,

you're restless. Yeah. And just kind of the, the, you know, some days you really feel like every hour is 60 fucking minutes, you know, and it can really feel that. And,

and it's a very compelling, you know, just, just kind of in that, you know, difficult kind of, you know, marriage gone stale story.

And then the ending hits and I'm like, what? There's this kind of, you know, gone stale story and then the ending hits and i'm like what there's this kind of you know this kind of surprise twist ending and i'm like first of all i want to congratulate you on there's an excellent way to make somebody come back oh thank you yeah yeah because i definitely felt like because i only had access to the pilot and i was like i gotta send you the whole and I was like, I was like, well, shit. Now I want to, you know, and also too, I also, now that you tell me this, it's like, I mean, just the genius of like, you're writing, you wrote a show about, you know, about all the

big changes that you having orgasms brings you. Good Lord. That's an HR problem. If you ask me. you know, about all the big changes that you having orgasms brings you. Good Lord. I know. That's an HR problem if you ask me. I know. See, the gist is I cum a lot. What do you think? Are you on board?

It is about it. Here's your check, madam. I wrote it all in quarantine the whole season, which also was like, we were all so restless in general. Yeah, yeah. And it was like, I wanted to write something that was like fantastical and an escape. And also that feeling like of those what ifs that kind of plague us all, that I think really came into hyper focus in quarantine where we're like, but what about my high school boyfriend? Like, should I have been stuck with him?

Like, we were also nostalgic and sort of like diving into our past and being like, hey, sixth grade teacher, do you want to get on a Zoom? You know, or whatever. this was also that sort of grappling with those what ifs that we all are dealing with, whether in quarantine or sort of now, whatever stage of life we're in. But yeah, I mean, the sexual component was important to me because I do think that women's sexuality on screen is obviously mired in a pretty problematic history and mostly been directed by men and written by men. And so it was exciting for me to try to push those boundaries as a writer and director, but also I'm the naked body on screen. So I had a lot of agency over the storytelling when it came to that sort of sexual awakening and the transporting power of female

pleasure, which we get to sort of rarely see. There's always a punishing element to women's sexual pleasure on screen. They tend to die. Yeah, right after the orgasm, they get an arrow to the chest or something. Or we just don't get to see it you know or it's like yeah that there's there's so much objectification of women on screen and yet there's still this sort of puritanical idea around women's pleasure right exactly yeah yeah no they you want to like they got to be sexy but if they're horny ew it's ridiculous sexy virgins yeah yeah which is what we all are right um yeah well you i mean you you is there is there unchecked off things on your list of stuff to do i mean what what what do you think the future holds for you

that's a good question andy why that's it's one of the three um this was a big one like slip was was a big bucket list in what sense that series to create my own series that i would direct and star and that's been like my whole like for for my entire adult life. Yeah. So that, I think, yeah, I think I can retire. And I'm planning. I'm planning on it. See, that for me, that was when you were talking about like doing stuff in COVID and how you started to walk down memory lane

and had all this time to think about stuff. I feel like we all got retired. Like we all get a taste of retirement. And so, you know. And we kind of liked it. Yes. I'm still lazy. You know, I still have my COVID laziness.

I think we all do. Yeah. I mean, we also all have long COVID. So we're actually ill. We're slowly dying. I think we also got like COVID was a taste of Northern European style social democracy. It's like, you know, you don't have to work like a slave. Totally.

You know, in order to just make rent. I mean, you know, it was a huge struggle for a lot of people. And I'm saying this from the incredibly privileged position of having work while I'm in the middle of this. So, you know, I don't mean everybody. Yeah. Because I know it was an awful, awful time for a lot of people. Yes. And all of those workers on the front lines.

But for us lucky ones that, you know, still kind of either could work from home or, you know, or doing other things, it was like, this is not so bad. This is not so bad, you know. like this is not so bad this is not so bad you know i do think it forced so many people to slow down yeah in a way that uh yeah i'm having a hard time speeding back up yeah yeah but um but i yeah but i i i did use covid uh to to make a lot of work i think I didn't know what else to do in that time because I was losing my mind. So, yeah, this is a nice, like, memory of that time in some ways. Do you have any, like, sort of long-term plans? Or are you just kind of, like, looking to see if slip goes

and see other jobs? Do you have, like, a 10-year plan? Like, what do you see in 10 years, 20 years? Should we figure it out now? Yeah, all right. I've got a pen. What do you see in 10 years, 20 years? Should we figure it out now? Yeah. All right. I got a pen. What do you see in my next 10 to 20 years?

I'm thinking Christmas tree farm. That's interesting as a Jew. I do like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's sort of, yeah, it's unexpected. And you push the Jew thing. Yeah. That's, I think, I think.

Oh, Jesus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, exactly. Yeah, I'm excited about season two. I hope we get to make a season two because this has been such a dream as an artist. I have a movie that I am now sort of in the incubation process of

that I think I'll write soon. I also dig acting in other people's things. Yeah. Heck of a lot easier. It sure is. So I am available easier it sure is so i am available it sure is the phone rings they give you money and then you say words someone else comes up with yeah it's a sweet deal sweet give yeah yeah you get to like just be in the thick of some drama in a hair and makeup trailer. But yeah, and I'm also, I did, I'm writing like some sort of book.

Yeah. Aren't we all? That I only want to be listened to. I don't want it to be read. And I want you to read it. I will. Okay. I'll read it.

It's my memoir. I'll read it on the page even. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but I want you to read it aloud. I want you to my memoir and I'll read it on the page even. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, but I want you to read it a lot. I want you to read it and be, Oh, yeah. The, the, the, the, the VO, I want you to be the audible narrator. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. That'd be awesome. I think that would be good. We'd love that.

I would love that. Yeah. Um, yeah, no, uh, I, I'm, I would love that. Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm in the same thing, like kind of working on a sort of a book. And I just, and it's so funny. Like, it's like, I don't have, it's again, it's like, I don't have patience to read books, but I guess, all right, I'll write one. I mean, if somebody's going to let me, okay, I'll write one.

And are you having fun writing it? I'm having fun in the sense that I thought, I somebody's going to let me, okay, I'll write one. And are you having fun writing it? I'm having fun in the sense that I thought, I can't do that. Yeah. And not just, I mean, not like that I'm dumb or that I don't, you know. And I've been paid to write, so I know I'm a writer. But I just didn't seem like I could have that kind of follow through. Yeah. And especially.

It's a big commitment. And I think, too, I've gotten so used to, you know, the last 11, 12 years of my life was on a show where we did bits. So my brain is still kind of in bit mode. Yeah. Yeah. If something goes. And I mean, I look at our old bits and I'm like jesus this thing's going on forever and it's like three and a half minutes you know so everything's so compact for me that the notion that i could do this and then as i kind of sit

down and flesh it out and and and and put the ideas on paper i'm like i can see you know the skeleton forming and i can see where the muscles will be and and that is exciting it is exciting yeah and it is and it is it for me too as someone who just kind of felt like i couldn't pull that off to think like no i can't pull that off is yeah and it goes, I can't pull that off. Yeah. And it goes like one of my, and I've talked about it on here before. One of my great motivators is, well, if that fucking guy can do it, I can do it. And so it's like, I've done enough now that I can go into that mode and I can, you know, I can go like, oh my that book I can write I can do that you know so yeah yeah and if Meryl Streep can read a book on tape you certainly can read my book on tape precisely that hack yeah yeah look out Peter Coyote here I come um well um what have you learned

today no oh not today well I mean sure later you can tell me that no but I mean what have you learned? Today? No. Oh. Not today. Well, I mean, sure, later. You can tell me that. No, but I mean, what do you want people to take away from your story? What do you think is the biggest life lesson you've learned? I guess to kind of what you were just talking about, like that the beauty of life is leaning into the fear. Yeah. And I was a very fearful child. the beauty of life is leaning into the fear. Yeah. And as I've been a very, I was a very fearful child.

So I'm surprised that I chose the life I did. Yeah. To do all these scary things. It's weird how this business is full of shy people. Yeah, I know. But I think like every time I do something that is really expansive for me as a human or as an artist or both, it's because I identified the thing that scared me and I went towards it. And so I guess that's like the biggest

lesson that every time I do that, I'm rewarded. Has there been times when you've headed towards something that you fear and you realize, oh, I fear that thing for a good reason and I should not have gone towards it. I mean, I don't mean like a bear, sure, or a snake, but... No. No? I don't think so. I think like, you know, these are fears of like directing for the first time or even just this show of like,

can I direct every episode of a season of television while writing and acting? Like that's an insane thing to do and scared the shit out of me and I didn't know if I could do it. So I think whenever you're like, can I do it? Kind of like what you were saying with your book. And then you find the space within yourself where you can, even if you're not doing it perfectly, which you never will. But to see that in yourself is such an important tool for growth, I think. Yeah.

And it's also, it removes the notion that, like, you have to be jaw-droppingly good. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like, no, you can't. No, we're all mediocre. Yeah, you can just get, no, you're making it. You're making the thing that you thought you couldn't make. And, you know, and it's pretty good. You know, you don't make stuff because and you think like, oh, that's garbage.

You make stuff and you think that's that was pretty good. There's a lot of stuff. I mean, my problem whenever I've written things or had scripts is that I end up falling in love with them. Like, you can't. Yeah. You can't devote yourself to an idea, whether it's a silly sitcom or like a sketch comedy show. And then you,

and I try not to, cause I, you know, I just know that like the mortality rate of projects is so high, but it's like, I just, now I realize I can't, I can't not fall in love with this creation of mine.

And the love is intoxicated. That's why you do it is to fall in love with the process of making it. And you get disappointed when in failure that like, oh, I already saw this thing. Like I saw it in my head and I saw like how funny that scene would be. And I had this person in mind for that. And no one's going to get like I got to see it kind of. Yeah. And no one else is going to now, you know.

That's devastating. I will say another lesson, though, is like none of these projects that I've mentioned have been like Roku gave the green light. But like there were many no's before Roku and Band-Aid, my first film, nobody wanted to make it. And I went, that's why we made it for zero dollars. Breaking Upwards, nobody wanted to make it. We made it for zero dollars. a level of belief or I guess operating from the place of love that you have for your work and allowing that to drive you to actually make it come hell or high water is a really empowering thing. And especially with technology, like it is a possibility. You can make things for nothing,

you know, for very little, especially if you have talented friends in your corner. And a cell phone. And literally a cell phone, yeah. And I do think that's like, whenever I talk to young artists or filmmakers, I'm like, just go make shit. Yeah. Because to be sort of penned in by this fear of like,

yeah, but it's not good enough or nobody's going to make it. Or if I get a no, it means I shouldn't keep going. Like this whole business is just all nos. Right, right. Yeah, gatekeepers. So many gatekeepers and so you have to really love the thing and believe in it and know that you can actually um push through push past the gatekeepers yeah they don't want you to know i know

but you can right you can well zoe thank you so much for coming in. This is a great conversation. This is so fun. Thank you for having me. I mean, I really had nothing else to do today. So this really filled it up. I just, you know. When the bar is low, I can really impress. There's only so fast that paint can peel that I'm watching. But thank you so much.

Thank you. And good luck. Everybody check out the show, Slip. I was like, wait, what's it called? That was convincing, Andy. Everyone watch the show Slip. Yeah. Which is, it's available.

Now, if you don't have a Roku, you can get it through other, you know. Yeah, it's available. Your Amazon-ies and all of that. On April 21st, you can, if you have a Samsung TV or an Amazon Fire Stick, you can download the app. Or many people now have. Roku is in like 70 million homes, which is so wild to me. Mostly against people's will from what I hear. But you can also watch it on the RokuChannel.com.

Okay, great. Well, check it out. I saw one episode, and I can't wait to see more. And I can't wait for all of you to come back and listen to more of this, the three questions. So thank you. And we'll see you next week. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rob Schulte.

Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Joanna Salitaroff, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Maddie Ogden. Research by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.