The Tim Ferriss Show - #114: The Athlete (And Artist) Who Cheats Death, Jimmy Chin

Starting point is 00:00:00 I'm looking at your stamp, the hanko for your name. And so it looks like it's Jing Guo something, right? I don't know how to say your last name. I don't know. That's right. I can't. I don't know. One of your 50 languages.

Starting point is 00:00:16 That's pretty good. I can't spot the other character. What is your Chinese name? Well, you know, it's because it's kind of the old, it's kind of the ancient calligraphy, older calligraphy. So it's Wei, as in Weifeng, like bravery or valor. My father was, he was a nationalist. So it basically says my paternal name and then national valor. National valor.

Starting point is 00:00:43 Optimal minimum. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking can i ask you a personal question now what is it i'm a cybernetic organism living tissue over metal endoskeleton this episode is brought to you by ag1 the daily foundational nutritional supplement Tim Ferriss Show. I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me on the road. So what is AG1? AG1 is a science-driven formulation of vitamins, probiotics, and whole food sourced nutrients. In a single scoop, AG1 gives you support for the brain, gut, and immune system. So take ownership of your health and try AG1 today.

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Starting point is 00:03:36 So easy peasy. Again, that's tim.blog forward slash Friday. And thanks for checking it out. If the spirit moves you. What's up, my little munchkins? This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. I've been waiting to record this intro and this goddamn garbage truck keeps backing up. So fuck it. We're going to roll with it and make that part of the ambiance. The Tim Ferriss Show is where I attempt to deconstruct world-class performers, whether they are chess prodigies, hedge fund managers, athletes, artists, comedians, celebrities, actors, you name it, scientists. We dig into everything. And the reason is you find that there are, say, morning routines, there are meditative practices, there are types of nutrition and training that transfer across all of these domains. It's pretty amazing

Starting point is 00:04:25 that you find a common toolkit for excellence. And in this episode, we have Jimmy Chin. And I remember at one point, Jimmy was kind of introduced to me conceptually by someone who said, if Chase Jarvis, the world-class photographer and Laird Hamilton, arguably the biggest big wave surfer of all time, did I say biggest? The best big wave surfer of all time. Had a love child, it would be Jimmy. And I was like, what the hell does that mean? Well, Jimmy is an artist and a professional athlete often at the same time. As a Nat Geo, National Geographic photographer, he has participated in and documented breakthrough expeditions around the planet from climbing first descents in the Karakoram to skiing first descents in the Himalayas. Put another way, he is one of the few people to

Starting point is 00:05:09 both climb Everest to the summit and then ski it down from the summit, which is bonkers. Most recently, he filmed and directed an incredible feature documentary called Meru, M-E-R-U, which is in theaters right now and won the 2015 audience award at Sundance. So what is Meru? I'll put this in perspective for folks. In the high stakes game of big wall climbing, the shark's fin on Mount Meru is, I suppose, the ultimate prize. Everest is a cakewalk by comparison. Sitting at the headwaters of the Ganges River in northern India, the shark's fin has seen more failed attempts by elite climbing teams, usually the best of the best, over the past 30 years than any other ascent in the Himalayas. Or the Himalayas, as they say.

Starting point is 00:05:54 And this movie is a story of one group's journey to conquer it, and there are many mishaps along the way. And it's a white-knuckle quest of friendship, sacrifice, hope, and obsession. How the hell Jimmy captured it on film while simultaneously risking his life is impossible for me to fathom, but we dig into it. So in this episode of the podcast, we talk about his origins, training, nutrition, gear, and tackling Meru, of course, which just really blows my mind. And I don't say that lightly. So suffice to say, if you want to benevolent kick of the ass, go see Meru.

Starting point is 00:06:30 That's your assignment. I saw it with my family. And for probably 15 minutes afterwards, all they could say was, whoa, whoa, over and over again. My refrain was, holy shit, under my breath, muttering 20 times every hour. Or it's really mind bogoggling what Jimmy pulls off. It's amazing, terrifying, and awe-inspiring, and inspiring at the same time. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with the incredible Jimmy Chin. Jimmy, welcome to the show. Thank you. Nice to be here. It's really been an interview that I've struggled with how to tackle because when I watched, is it Meru or Meru? I don't know how to emphasize the name of this.

Starting point is 00:07:17 I say Meru. Meru. So it was basically 90 minutes of saying, oh my fucking God, oh my fucking God, oh my fucking God. So I feel like most of the questions that I would have formulated during that time might have been hijacked. But we're going to, of course, talk about that and many other things. But when you are asked by people, what do you do? How do you answer that? Because you have been described by a friend of mine as the love child, if there were one, of Laird Hamilton and Chase Jarvis, which I thought was hilarious. Since both have been on the podcast, both amazing world-class performers in surfing with Laird and many other things, and then photography with Chase. And I don't want the image in my head of them actually doing anything sexual. But how do you answer the question, what do you do?

Starting point is 00:08:09 Because you do so much. Yeah. Sorry, I was picturing something terrifying, actually. I feel like Chase would really get the worst end of that. Maybe. You know, that's a question I get asked often. And it's, you know, it's kind of amazing that I still don't have a very good answer for it. I generally break it down into three pieces. I'm a professional athlete. I am a photographer and I'm a filmmaker. And that's kind of divided by, you know, endorsement of product or a brand ambassador or working on RD&D with designers on jackets, you know, so that they kind of spread through

Starting point is 00:09:16 a lot of different areas when I say athlete. And then photographer is both commercial and editorial work and filmmaker is kind of the same documentary filmmaking and commercial work as well. Now, for those people who may not be familiar with your work, what would the Jimmy Chin highlight reel look like? When you're introduced by a friend at a party who's had a couple of drinks and so is very enthusiastic. When they want to really catch someone's attention with some of your accomplishments, what are the things that they throw out? I'd say, oh, wow. I mean, you mean flattering ones or unflattering ones? That's true. They're like, hey, it's my friend Jimmy. What one of my buddies does, as a side note, he's from New Zealand, so he loves doing this to people, but he'll run up

Starting point is 00:10:03 to me at parties when I'm talking to someone I want to make a good first impression on and he'll go, hey, buddy, how's the syphilis going? Anyway, oh, sorry to interrupt, and he'll run off. So I'm referring less to that type of shenanigan and more to the flattering stuff when he wants to impress someone. I would say, you know, I think it would be, hey, this is Jimmy. He's a National Geographic photographer. He's climbed and skied Everest. And he just recently, you know, won the audience award for his film at Sundance. That would probably be the quick and dirty.

Starting point is 00:10:42 The quick and dirty top three. What is a first ascent and what is a first descent in climbing and skiing respectively? Because you've done both, is that right? Yes. I guess to give it some context, those are the descriptions of what professional climbers and skiers or snowboarders do.

Starting point is 00:11:02 Because really, when you're a professional climber or a professional skier, you are often trying to do first things that have never been done before. And, you know, you make a career of trying to do first ascents or first descents. And really, that's kind of like your legacy too. So for instance, if I show up in a mountain range in the Karakoram in Pakistan and I go to the Trango Towers, which is this beautiful range of big alpine walls in Pakistan, I can look at the mountains and i'll see these prominent lines you know and and you'll either have a guidebook or you'll be with somebody that can point out these lines and say that prow on the great trango first descent by you know so and so and so and so you know marches in it and alex lowe or and so it's kind of like your legacy, but it's also your inspiration too, in a lot of ways. And then if you're a skier, you can go up to Alaska and, you know, you'll see

Starting point is 00:12:11 these big intimidating lines and they're related to somebody and they'll be like, oh, Doug Coombs, one of the great skiers of our generation, he did the first descent and they're important because they, you know, they represent a person's legacy in a way, but they also inspired somebody and so much of, and they had, they had to have a vision to do it because usually each generation you're trying to push the kind of boundaries of what's possible by doing these certain lines. And of course they get harder and harder, you know, generation after generation. Where, where am I reaching you right now? Where are you in the world? I just got back home in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

Starting point is 00:12:59 And you have a, you have a very busy, very busy schedule ahead of you. But if you're looking back retrospectively at, I suppose that's redundant, but you get the idea, at your three silos, and they're not really silos because they're so intertwined, the photography, the athletics, the climbing, and alpine sport, and then the filmmaking. If you could only be remembered for one of those three, which would you choose and why? sport, and then the filmmaking, if you could only be remembered for one of those three, which would you choose and why? Oh boy, that's a tough one. I don't even know if I can answer that because they're so important to me. There's crossovers within the communities. And I'm not trying to totally dodge the question. But, you know, my peer group, I think of my peer group when you ask me that question. And there are so many people who I respect and appreciate in each kind of category, I guess you could say. And they're all equally important and inspiring to me. So I don't know that I have, I guess that is the answer,

Starting point is 00:14:08 is that there isn't one that I would prefer to be remembered by or I'd love to be remembered by all of them. Well, let me rephrase that. If you had to stop doing one of them, gun against the head, had to choose one, which would it be? Oh, you're making this tough. Oh yeah, there's a lot more where that came from. Yeah, I'm sure there is. You know, I would probably choose, oh man, I mean, climbing

Starting point is 00:14:37 and skiing have provided so much inspiration for the other two. And the passion for the other two, in a lot of ways, were rooted in being in the wild and the experiences that I had and have in the mountains and in the ocean surfing. Or, you know, I'm a pretty physical person and, you know, I, I just find such great joy in doing those things. So, okay. I guess I'll say the, the climbing and the skiing, the surfing, the athletic side, that's what I'd pick. Okay. That's what you'd pick to keep? That's what I'd pick to keep. Now, let's talk about the physical side of things,

Starting point is 00:15:28 because I know the people listening are very interested in your training regimens and things like that. And we're going to rewind the clock at one point and talk about your upbringing and background a bit. But a mutual friend of ours sent me this paragraph, and I'd love to dig into it a little bit. His training regimen is alien example two-hour car-to-car ski laps on the grand teton question mark exclamation point question mark

Starting point is 00:15:53 uh so i want to come back to that because i'm not sure what that is he'd be in town having a coffee after a grand lap by mid-morning exum guides i don't know what that is but in jackson hall list this as a two-day ascent and many would consider it the seminal achievement of their mountaineering life. It's a standard workout for him. So I want to drill into this exactly. What is a two-hour car-to-car ski lap? I think the hours are probably wrong. I've never done it in two hours car to car, and I don't think anybody has. But I have done certainly a sub-10, maybe even around six hours. I can't remember what the fastest time.

Starting point is 00:16:37 I'm not one of those people that records my time every single time I go up and do something. I have a general sense, and it's more just for me to gauge where my fitness is at. But a car-to-car time, let's say it's six to eight hours, somewhere in there, is basically you start in the valley floor, and if you did start at stopwatch, you'd start it when you left the car. And then you'd climb up the grand and then you'd ski back down it back to the car and then you'd stop the clock. So car to car, you know, I think one of the times that has been kind of recognized was, uh, I, when I was training to ski Everest, I was kind of doing laps on the Grand.

Starting point is 00:17:27 I would do it a few times a week. And at one point towards the end when I was really fit, I climbed and skied the Grand and then went over and climbed and skied the Middle and then went over and climbed and skied the South Teton, you know, back to the car. And I think it was sub 10 hours. So I can't remember exactly, but something like that. And for me to think about it now, even I'm like, wow, that was, that's pretty fast. Cause I don't think I could do that right now, you know? And could I do it again at some point? Maybe, but yeah, that's how I trained because I didn't, you know,

Starting point is 00:18:06 I do have to train in the gym now probably more than I ever had to before. And I don't particularly love it because the whole point for me was that was being in the mountains. And I didn't necessarily consider it just training because I got to be in the mountains and I got to climb and ski and breathe and push myself and look at the starry sky early in the morning or watch the sunrise. You know, I mean, there's so much beauty in that. And when I'm in a gym, it feels a little lacking, but I have to do it now more. Now, is that a function of age, or what is the reason that you have to spend more time in the gym? I mean, some people who I've seen in their kind of arc,

Starting point is 00:18:57 in their kind of career arc as a professional alpinist or ski mountaineer, they've moved more into the gym because there's less exposure to risks. And, you know, I mean, it is kind of a statistics game. The more time you're out there, the more risks you're exposed to, it catches up to you. So there is that part for me, that's not necessarily the case. It's more the fact that i'm traveling a ton i'm married to you know my wonderful wife who lives in manhattan and uh you just don't get those like full days where you're like oh you know and and to get in the mountains you have to wait for the right conditions too.

Starting point is 00:19:45 So if it's storming, you can't just go, you kind of have to wait. Um, and I don't have that luxury. It's like, okay, I have to train. I have to have a certain amount of consistency to stay shit in shape. What does your week of exercise look like currently? And, and let's And let's separate that from kind of launch time with the new film and so on, and just think about a non-crunch period like that. Although I think you probably have a lot of crunch times from the looks of it. But assuming that you're in Wyoming, what does a week of training look like for you? And the more specific, the better, because I love it. And I know the people listening would really enjoy it. Okay. Well, it's hard for me not to think, and maybe this will be helpful to you. Like I can

Starting point is 00:20:33 think about what it used to look like in my mid to late twenties when I could just go. And then also right now, but right now a week at home, you know, I'll usually set aside, if it's a winter, it's a huge ski tour or, you know, climbing and skiing one of the peaks in the Tetons as national park. And then another big, you know, full day skiing back country at the resort or ski touring up on Teton pass, which is this great back country ski area, ski access to area. Uh, and then the five days in between, you know, I'd probably be working most of the day and I would just get like one or two laps up on the pass, which is like a approximately 1500 foot hike and then a ski down. And I would probably do that once or twice if I had a little bit more time in the afternoon, probably throw in some yoga in there once or twice a week, or just some stretching once or twice a week as well.

Starting point is 00:22:03 And what type of gym work would you be doing in that week or would you not be doing much gym work? I probably wouldn't be doing much gym work. It seems like in the summertime, there's probably a chance I would do two days in the gym, which would probably be kind of core stuff. It'd probably be like core and yoga of some sort. And when you say core, to get really specific, how long are those workouts and what might a

Starting point is 00:22:31 hypothetical or real sequence of exercises look like for you? Probably if I'm lucky and I have somebody that I'm training with that will run me through a workout. There's sandbag get-ups, which is... It's like a Turkish get-up using a sandbag or different? Exactly. It's like a Turkish get-up, sandbags. Are you doing that with one arm? It's just one of those sandbags with kind of the handles on them? Yeah. And you throw it over your shoulder and you basically get up. So it's a get-up with a sandbag on your shoulder, that sounds miserable.

Starting point is 00:23:08 Exactly. Not that much fun. And what type of kind of rep set scheme are you doing with that? It depends. I think I'd probably be doing like a 60-pound sandbag and I think it's like five to 10 on each side. And then I would go to do like a series of sit-ups or some sort of, you know, uh, leg lifts or something like that, where you're hanging off at something and doing leg lifts and then planks essentially kind of three core workouts back to back. And you do like a whole round of them got it so you'd be so you do sort of sandbag get up some type of leg lift plank and then repeat that sequence yeah and in the winter i might even if there's like a climbing station where there's just like a

Starting point is 00:24:00 wall there to hang off of i'll do a core workout and then i'll just get on a wall for about four or five minutes at a time overhanging wall and just kind of work out my arms just so i have some semblance of my keep some semblance of my climbing capacity and and really that's one of the hardest things for me because you know I'm supposed to be a climber. And most of the climbers, like serious professional climbers, they just climb year-round. And most of the skiers ski year-round. So they go to South America and ski during our summers. But, you know, I'm kind of switching back and forth.

Starting point is 00:24:41 And they're kind of, they don't complement each other that well because skiers get these huge legs and that's like the worst. If you're a rock climber, it's like to have big, meaty thighs. Exactly. And obviously really strong forearms and finger strength does nothing for your skiing. So that's like a constant kind of battle yeah it's like being a bench press competitor and a competitive cyclist yeah something like that yeah well i mean not to say you're doing much bench pressing but the point being that the yeah the exercises do not necessarily transfer uh from one to the other when um now have, and this is talked about in Meru, which I enjoyed incredibly.

Starting point is 00:25:30 I mean, I recommended it to 500,000 people or so via this newsletter that I send out every Friday called Five Bullet Friday. I found it extremely inspiring, but I want to talk specifically about, it's not really a biathlon, it's kind of like a triathlon, but in an unconventional sense. And so much as, so Meru, I guess it's the shark fin, am I getting this right? Yeah, the shark's fin. top climbers and alpinists for 20, 30 years, because you can't just be good at big wall climbing. And I guess for people, and please correct me if I'm wrong, this is just, I'm trying to give people who aren't familiar with this stuff, some context, like big wall, you could think of say El Capitan or some of these sheer surfaces in Yosemite as a, as a big wall. You can't just be a good big wall climber. You can't just be a good ice climber.

Starting point is 00:26:29 You can't just be good at any one of these disciplines. You have to be world-class at all of them. And what I'd love to ask you is, for instance, in the case of rock climbing, and when people think of, say, an indoor gym or just climbing outside, bouldering or doing top roping or whatever, or lead climbing if they're more advanced. What are some common novice wastes of time or mistakes? And I'm just going to kind of hit each of these disciplines for people who are eager to practice this stuff, right? So let's just, if we look at rock climbing first and your own development and looking back and knowing all the people you know, what should novices do more of and less of? I'd say in terms of technique, the classic mistake that climbers make when they first start is that they think it's all about having these big arms and upper body strength. And it's really actually about the footwork and balance and keeping your

Starting point is 00:27:28 weight over your feet. And so it's the classic scenario where you have like the big burly guy who's about to start climbing. And then like the petite, you know, woman that, you know, is a little bit intimidating, intimidated and taking like, you know, just there's a different attitude towards it, you know. And then the guy gets up there and is trying to muscle through this climb and use like his big burly shoulders that he's been lifting, you know, building in the gym. And he can't get 20 feet off the ground. like his big burly shoulders that he's been lifting, you know, building in the gym and he can't get 20 feet off the ground. And then, you know, the small petite woman who maybe did ballet or gymnastics gets up there and floats up the thing. And then the guy is totally destroyed,

Starting point is 00:28:16 right? On multiple levels. You see that all the time because the woman is, is a being smart and she isn't leaning towards muscle. It's more about, you know, how she stands on her feet and, and is, you know, just being much more thoughtful about how to do, how to climb this thing. And so I don't know if that necessarily answers your question. No, it's helpful. I mean, I've, I've, I've watched women in the gym and they're consistently, I mean, the higher level climbers better at keeping their arms straight and keeping their bodies over their feet, or at least using their feet to their advantage. What, uh, if you were training someone in rock climbing, how would you have them practice for the first, say, two weeks? Would it be on the bouldering wall?

Starting point is 00:29:10 Would they be doing top roping? Would they be incorporating other things like slacklining? I mean, if you really wanted to lay a very, very know, moving around and not being so caught up in like the rope work and all of those things. And just getting that body movement, that muscle memory with tying the knots so that they understand the systems. Because so much of the fear that comes in climbing is often perceived. And a lot of, you know, what you do as a climber is you're managing fear. And I think that, you know, I often talk about managing fear by recognizing the difference between perceived risks and real risks. So when you teach somebody about these systems and they understand it and they're like, oh, this is a safety system and this is how it works.

Starting point is 00:30:14 You can help alleviate some of the fear of the climbing and that, you know, the height. So then I would just take them, you know, top roping and get them familiar with climbing a bit higher and using that kind of technique that they've been learning on the bouldering wall as well. me to ask you what type of when you're in the gym or just not doing cold weather stuff when you're just working on climbing what type of shoes do you wear for normal rock climbing yeah i guess it would just be climbing shoes you know what brand yeah yeah yeah i normally climb in 510 they're known for having the best kind of sticky rubber. Any particular model? I've climbed a lot in the Anasazis for more like everyday climbing. And for backcountry skiing and ski touring, what type of gear do you use? I use Dinafit boots and the Dinafit bindings. and then skis over the last few years, usually on Armada skis or Black Diamond skis. When you're doing downhill,

Starting point is 00:31:34 I would imagine the gear changes quite a bit, but I don't know. I'm not outside of my area of expertise. Yeah, it's funny because I just, you know, I wear, I use a lot of different brands based on like what boot they have so i've skied laying boots and armada skis for many years that's kind of like my on resort kind of setup and then that's the main that's the go-to yeah and and when you're doing this training and doing laps of various types and you're out there for five to ten hours, what does your nutrition look like, if anything? I mean, what are you bringing with you in terms of water and food?

Starting point is 00:32:17 On bigger days in the mountains, this is non-expedition, but let's say I'm going up to climb and ski the Grand or I'm doing a long run across the Tetons or something in the summer. It's usually I have cliff shots, cliff blocks. I also use a lot of hammer nutrition stuff that I think triathletes and endurance athletes use. So there's Heed which is a great carbohydrate drink that isn't over flavored and pretty easy to use. And then I like to have real food as well. So it's usually like a ham sandwich or PB and J or a couple of them. I also take Enduralites, which is basically an electrolyte pill that Hammer Nutrition makes.

Starting point is 00:33:09 I bring a lot of Lifesaver mints. Lifesaver mints. Why Lifesavers? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, they're like a little nicety to have when you're on a long run or big day out. I have a terrible sweet tooth, so it kind of helps with that as well. So do you bring Lifesavers on your bigger expeditions as well?

Starting point is 00:33:35 Like on Mera, did you have a stash of Lifesavers? Absolutely. And I noticed, of course, and a lot of people have noticed, you have earbuds in a lot when you're climbing or I would imagine exercising. Let's just, when you're on these bigger expeditions, what are you listening to? And actually, Justin Bereda of the Glitch Mob wanted to ask this specifically. No way. Yeah, he's been on the podcast before.

Starting point is 00:34:03 And so he wanted to know, like, what do you listen to? How do you use music when climbing, et cetera? So I'd love to just hear what is in your ears. Well, a couple things. I don't usually climb, like, when I'm actually leading or if I'm belaying. I'm not listening to, a ear pod, but on expeditions, I definitely on the treks in, you know, where it's four or five days of trekking, I'll, I'll be listening to music and yeah, certainly sometimes when I'm bouldering or,

Starting point is 00:34:39 or touring, like up into the mountains to, to i'll have them in but when i'm actually like when it gets real like there's real climbing or real skiing happening i i definitely am not listening to music at that point yeah when you're trekking in what's uh what are some favorites it's funny that barretta who's amazing and i love the glitch I mean, we definitely listened to the Glitch Mob on Meru. And despite the weight limitations that we put on ourselves, we brought this teeny little nano and a little micro speaker with solar speaker.

Starting point is 00:35:16 And we had Glitch Mob on there. That's awesome. I've been a huge fan of them for a long time. And we had everything from classic reggae, Jose Gonzalez, Eddie Vedder, and the classics too, like Led Zeppelin, Neil Young. It's really across the board. I'll listen to Bach. Yeah, and these long trips, I usually have a pretty good mix of music. But Glitch Mob and Jose Gonzalez were definitely playing a lot on our Meru expedition. When you look back at all of your experiences,

Starting point is 00:36:01 and I'm sure you get approached by many, wannabe sounds bad, but aspiring mountaineers. And I apologize that I'm not sure if mountaineer is interchangeable with alpine climber or alpinist. I don't know the vocab, but for people who look at your life outdoors and envy that and want to spend more time outside and want a goal of some type, let's just assume that they are mid-30s, used to be pretty athletic, maybe competed as an athlete, spend a lot of time sitting down, but want to reverse that and need a goal of some type. What would be some decent goals to put in the calendar in terms of certain ascents or summits or anything like that? Let's assume

Starting point is 00:36:44 that they don't have any real technical training to speak of at this point. Yeah, I think there's a couple avenues to come into it. I think NOLS is a good way to come into it. The National Outdoor Leadership School based out of Lander, Wyoming. I think they have a few adult classes another great way to come into it of course too if you're a professional and and you want more one-on-one kind of instruction I think the best way to do that is to come into it by hiring a guide and you know I think a great mini expedition for someone or a goal would be to climb the Grand Teton because you come into it, you learn the basics of rope work, you learn, you know, how to belay and you go climbing for a couple of days down low. So you're comfortable with the rock climbing and the systems. And then you get to go up on the Grand where it's a bit more alpine and higher altitude and

Starting point is 00:37:47 and then you get to climb a mountain and you know a lot of people like a typical good client who's getting a lot out of the experience will have that climb under their belt and then you know the next year they'll call their guide if if they got along with them really well and had a good time and say, hey, let's do something else, you know, and that guide ways to kind of continue to, to progress as a climber. But then you also have like the safety of this, like very knowledgeable guide. How do you, how would one go about finding a good guide? Are there certain websites or resources that you'd recommend? Yeah. I mean, I think you can go in Jackson for climbing the grand, there's two outfits. One is Exum Mountain Guides, and the other one is Jackson Hole Mountain Guides. And, you know, all of their guides have gone through courses and definitely been in the mountains a lot. And so they'll assign one.

Starting point is 00:39:00 And, you know, most of the guides I know are great. And so that's one way to go into it. You can also do this kind of thing in Yosemite or in the S And it kind of traces everything from the very early days all the way up to Alex Honnold, right? Is that how you say his last name? And a number of mutants like that. The question that I wanted to tackle next is going way, way back. Where were you born and raised? So I was born and raised in Minnesota, Mankato, Minnesota, which is basically this small farm town with a small university in it.

Starting point is 00:39:53 And had your parents been there for multiple generations? No, no. My parents were both from China, and my mother was from Harbin. I was just going to say they had to be from some cold ass place like Harbin to go to Minnesota. Well, my mom was, you know, and she came from like this really progressive family. My, my grandfather was like trained in Western medicine and a doctor. And my grandmother was like, she spoke multiple languages. She was pretty progressive for her time. She was apparently an actress in Japanese cinema.

Starting point is 00:40:31 I don't know how that worked out. That's out there. That's, yeah. And so she came from that kind of a world. And then my father was from the South in Wenzhou. And he was from like a really traditional conservative military family. And it's very unlikely that those two would have met in China. But, you know, in that era, both of them left, both of their families left China during the Communist Revolution, ended up in Taiwan.

Starting point is 00:41:03 And then they both went to the United States for university and met in the States. They apparently just, you know, they moved to Chicago after they got married, didn't like the city and heard that Minnesota was apparently a good place to raise a family. So they moved to Minnesota and worked at the university in Mankato. And that's where I was born. Both of them worked at the university? Yes. What did they do there? They're both librarians. That's fascinating. And what were some defining moments in your childhood? When you think back to how you were raised and growing up in that environment uh what would you if you had to pick a defining moment in your childhood what would uh what would one be well i grew up yeah this is there they were

Starting point is 00:41:53 very kind of stereotypical chinese parents they were very focused on academics and kind of these extracurricular activities so i started playing the violin when I was three and a half. And, you know, I swam. Yes, I swam competitively from when I was like seven through high school. And then I studied martial arts from as long as I can remember from my dad. So my mom was kind of like pushing the violin side. My dad was pushing the martial arts side and they both kind of agreed on the swimming part.

Starting point is 00:42:31 But my life was consumed by these things because I was basically either practicing the violin, going to swim practice or going to the dojo, you know, and competing every weekend, played in the, you know, youth orchestra and, and I was studying a lot. And so I was pushed pretty hard, but I was also really motivated, you know, I wanted to do well in these things, but they were a bit confining in a way. And so when I found skiing, there's a little ski hill behind my house. That was my reward if I did well in everything else. And I still remember I skied in jeans and

Starting point is 00:43:12 a jean jacket and froze my ass off on this little bump. It's like the Andre Agassi of Asian kids in Minnesota. Yeah. Which I was like the only one, by the way, in NNK that there were not that many Asian kids. How would you, now you have your own small child now, am I right? Yes. What are you going to do differently, if anything, in raising your child compared to your parents? And that's not meant as a criticism of your parents. I'm just curious what you'll definitely borrow and what you think you'll do differently. Yeah. I've been thinking about that a lot. You know, I really had to go against the grain. My parents were not into the fact that I finished college and decided I was going to go. I basically told my parents, I said, hey, look, I discovered climbing as well.

Starting point is 00:44:13 And in late in high school and I was obsessed and I told them, hey, I'm going to take a year off after college instead of looking for this, you know, this new career I was supposed to go on. Cause I mean, they, they really were, your three options are lawyer, doctor, executive, you know? And so when I told them that I was going to like live out of my car for a year and I, the way I framed it was like, I just got to get it out of my car for a year. And the way I framed it was like, I just got to get it out of my system and then I will go pursue a powered career somewhere. Well, one year turned into two, two turned into three. I lived out of the back of a little blue Subaru

Starting point is 00:44:59 for seven years till I was 28, climbing and skiing and doing odd jobs, like shoveling roofs in mansions in Jackson. You know, we'd have to do rope work and like, I did random stuff to make it work. And so they were very, well, they were mortified. My mom would say, well, of course we're worried. There's no word in Chinese for what you do, you know? Like, what are you doing? And I couldn't imagine a different life because I just, it was so powerful for me to do that. And it was tough.

Starting point is 00:45:46 I had a lot of doubt about it. But it didn't help, obviously, that every time I called them, they were like, what are you doing? So what I took away from that, though, is that the foundation that they set for me in that sort of discipline and even though it wasn't like I found the martial arts I did eventually really love it swimming it was just I did love that physical aspect of like competition too and just like pushing as hard as you can and like improving incrementally and understanding what it takes to kind of progress i think playing the violin was incredibly you know i'm so thankful that you know i picked up the guitar in college it was really easy to pick up

Starting point is 00:46:39 and music has been a big part of my life and And so those aspects of my upbringing, while at points in my youth, I hated them, but there's so much appreciation for it. They also, you know, raised me to speak bilingual. They would ignore me if I didn't speak to them in Chinese because they knew I was going to learn English. But at home, it was only Chinese. And, you know, so I got to grow up with another language. And when I was younger, I was like, my parents are crazy. Nobody else makes their kids do this stuff, but I really appreciated it. So I don't think I'll necessarily dictate, you know, you have to do this and this and this. I'm certainly going to share the things that I love with my daughter Marina.

Starting point is 00:47:28 And if she, you know, enjoys them or becomes passionate, and that could be photography too, you know, I'm going to share those things with her. And I think I'll have the capacity to recognize whether or not she, you know, finds one of them really appealing. And in a lot of ways, it's also selfish because I want to be able to ski with my daughter and surf with my daughter, but I want her to find something that she's passionate about. And I've told myself this, and I don't know whether or not I'll be able to execute on it, but, you know, you know, to wrap my head around, like, it could be something totally different than what you expect. And you're going to have to embrace it and, and give her all those

Starting point is 00:48:17 opportunities that she needs to, to pursue whatever that thing is. And maybe it's knitting. Who knows? And I mean, my mother and my mom and dad did that with me quite a lot. I mean, they didn't have the same focus on music, although I took music lessons. I was a chronic quitter with music, but did expose me to a lot. We didn't have a lot of money, but was constantly exposed to things outside,

Starting point is 00:48:54 to different types of activities. And then they put whatever muscle they could behind helping me and my brother to explore those things. And I'm really grateful for that. And I had a number of mentors, but this isn't about me. I want to ask you about your mentors. And I only know about a few of them. Now, Conrad Anker is in the film. And if you're listening to this, you have to go see Mero. It's time extremely well spent, and it's a beautiful film and a terrifying film and it points a hilarious film. But I wanted to talk about and ask you about someone I'm less familiar with because we've mentioned photography, but haven't really touched on your start and I'm not familiar with it. So I was hoping you could maybe tell the story of meeting, is it Galen Rowell?

Starting point is 00:49:46 Is that how you pronounce his name? Yeah, it's Galen Rowell. Rowell, there we go. And could you explain how you became exposed to photography and then how you met Galen? Well, I began, so I never studied photography. I didn't take any classes in photography. I actually had a friend who wanted to be a photographer, show me how to use his camera while we were slides at the time and he sold it for sold one photo and it happened to

Starting point is 00:50:26 be mine for $500. And, and he still says, I started Jimmy's career, which is true. And he went on to do great things in his field as well. But I, it was so funny because in a way I'm embarrassed to say it.

Starting point is 00:50:43 Like I didn't come at photography from this inspiration of creativity and, and art, you know, I came at it from being like, Oh, you know, I live out of the car, my car, $500. I can live for basically two months. You know, I'm like, man, I only have to take one photo a month and I can do this for the rest of my life. You know, that was like my 20 year old self thinking. Obviously, I've evolved from there. But, you know, I so I picked up photography then and I was very fortunate to start shooting right away for commercial clients

Starting point is 00:51:25 just because I was surrounded. My peer group were all these climbers like Dean Potter and Steph Davis and Timmy O'Neill and Cedar Wright. They all became famous climbers. And I started shooting for Patagonia and the North Face right away because they wanted someone they didn't have to worry about when they were up climbing, and I could climb and I would shoot with them. But Galen came into my life when I started looking at a lot of different photography,

Starting point is 00:52:00 and he embodied this form of adventure photography that was very participatory, where he was shooting from the inside out as opposed to from the outside in. What do you mean by that? Where he's part of the team and climbing, and he was a very talented and visionary climber. I mean, he has first ascents all over the world.

Starting point is 00:52:23 Got it, got it. He was a peer with his subject matter. Exactly. visionary climber. I mean, he has first sense all over the world. Got it. Got it. And he was up here with his subject matter. Exactly. And, you know, I related to that. And at one point, you know, I saw these photos of Conrad and this other climber, Peter Croft in Pakistan, in this unbelievable valley. And I was like, okay, that is the end game. Like if I'm going to commit to being a climber and I'm going to be in Yosemite, climbing El Cap wasn't the end game.

Starting point is 00:52:55 That was like where you cut your teeth. You took what you learned in Yosemite and you go to a place like this place, you know, in this picture. The high altitude, big walls of Pakistan. And so I'm like 24 maybe and 23 maybe. And I decide, okay, well the one guy who's going to know how to get there is this guy Galen. And so I drove from Wyoming to Berkeley where his gallery was, and I showed up at his office. Berkeley, California. Yeah. And I walk in the office, you know, and I'm like, the receptionist is there.

Starting point is 00:53:35 And she's like, can I help you? And I'm like, yeah, I'm here to see Galen. And she's like, and you are? And I'm like, well, I'm Jimmy Chin. She's like, okay. And'm Jimmy Chin. She's like, uh, okay. Um, and she goes upstairs, she comes back and she's like, you know, he just came back from this huge shoot. Um, there's all these photo editors there. He doesn't have time to see you today. So I was like, well, that's cool. Do you mind if I hang out and look around a bit? She's like, that's fine.

Starting point is 00:54:02 So I sit in the lobby that day the rest of the afternoon kind of like moping around looking at pictures and the place closes and i leave and i come back the next day and same thing they're like oh it's you again i'm like yeah is he around And they're like, not really. So basically, I do the same thing on Tuesday, do the same thing on Wednesday, do the same thing on Thursday. And by then, they're kind of like, dude, what's your deal? And one of the guys there, a little bit younger, was like, man, what are you doing? And I'm like, I just want to meet him. I just need 10 minutes of his time. And he was, you know, they're like, well, maybe come back tomorrow. So I show up on Friday,

Starting point is 00:54:52 same thing. And at four o'clock on Friday afternoon, Galen comes down and he just looks at me. He's like, so you must be Jimmy. And said, yep. He was like, okay, well, you have my undivided attention for the next two hours. What can I help you with? I was floored. Two hours, that's legit. Yeah. Well, that and I was like, oh my God, it's Galen. Yeah, sure.

Starting point is 00:55:22 Then I get up there and I'm like kind of embarrassed and he I was like look I want to go to this valley and so he pulled down two slide trays and started showing me pictures and I needed an objective and because I was trying to write grant proposals and I didn't even know where I was going and And he was like, well, here you go. And he literally pulled the slide out of the tray and was like, this is your objective. And it was these two huge towers that had to unclimb. And that's not something you give up normally. You mean information-wise?

Starting point is 00:56:02 Yeah, not something. If you're a longtime climber, you kind of keep those close to your chest. There's not that many of them out there, you know. Right. So he gave those to me, gave that slide to me, put me in contact, gave me the contact for his fixer on the ground there, Nazir Sabir, very influential first Pakistani to climb Everest.

Starting point is 00:56:25 And then we walked around. He said the second hour we walked around, he had the Saini's prints. And I got to walk around these tables with this most iconic prints. And he told me the stories about the prints. And, I mean, I was floored. I was almost speechless at this point. And then he sent me out the door and said, good luck. And you know what?

Starting point is 00:56:47 You got to promise me that you will take a camera. And that was sent. And I had just taken that photo that had sold as well. And so I bought a camera and put an expedition together to that valley. And that was the first expedition that I went on. And then fast forward, I think it was four years, and I went on my first National Geographic expedition with Galen to Tibet and got to watch him work day in and day out for two months.

Starting point is 00:57:24 I mean, it was hugely influential on multiple levels. What were some of the things that you learned from him, whether those are, you know, principles, techniques, sort of philosophies, sayings, anything? Probably the most important thing was just how hard he worked. I mean, he was always up before sunrise to make sure that he was in position to get the best light. And he ran and he moved so much. And when you're on those kinds of expeditions, I mean, we were crossing the Chantang Plateau unsupported, average elevation 17,000 feet. When you say unsupported, what do you mean by that? There was no, we were carrying everything on our backs.

Starting point is 00:58:06 Okay, no Sherpas. No, and there are no cars. Yeah, no people to bring something to you if you needed it. I mean, we were in one of the most remote high deserts in the world. And those trips are all about efficiencies. You never do anything unnecessary because you know that you need every single ounce of energy to accomplish the goal and yet here he was running up to this you have to understand he's 62 when i went on this trip with him

Starting point is 00:58:39 and i was 28 you know and he was climbing up these ridges up to the side and shooting back down to get this perspective and then going back down to his stuff. And he'd be way behind and then he'd have to catch up, you know, and then he would get ahead and shoot back and like, just to see what it took, um, and, and how committed he was and just how he lived through the lens. It just shows, you know, sometimes mentors don't have to say anything. Definitely. It's just, you spend time with them and that is the greatest gift you can have. And sometimes it's just acknowledging that you're doing something right. It's not saying, like, you have to do it this way or that way. Sometimes you do. But, you know, what I've learned so much from my mentors is, like, that was so meaningful to me is like, I'd take an initiative

Starting point is 00:59:46 and they would kind of give you the nod, like you're doing the right thing. And that was a powerful lesson in terms of what it is to be a mentor, you know, cause that was so powerful for me to see that and say, Oh wow. Like I took a stab at something, I took a risk. And they're acknowledging that it was a good risk. And it gives you so much more ownership over it too sometimes. So Conrad in the film does this a lot. He gives the nod to you quite a few times and I won't give away any sort of punchlines or key moments that I think people should just see in the film.

Starting point is 01:00:25 But there is one moment, and I'd love to dig into fear as it relates to this. So there's a moment, and I'm blanking on what it's called. Oh, the House of Cards, is that it? Right. Holy shit. I mean, can you describe this to me? And then the question, describe it for people, what this house of cards is. And then when you feel fear, if you do, I assume it's there, but what is your internal dialogue? What do you say to yourself before you tackle something like that. So if you could explain the house of cards to people and why it's called that. Yeah, I had to really like stop drinking my beverages in the theater. Because

Starting point is 01:01:10 number one, it was cold by my like, very limp wristed standards in the theater. But I was also like my bladder was was I was having sort of sympathy fear just watching this. So what is the House of Cards? So the House of Cards is one of the pitches, which is essentially a rope length on a climb where I had to go up through this section of rock, which were basically these delicately balanced giant granite slabs that, you know, probably each weighed 10,000 pounds apiece. And I had to move, climb through them without ever overweighting any portion of my body or else you'd peel one off and the whole thing would collapse like a house of cards and as john so eloquently states in the film it would floss the whole team off the mountain um and so it was fairly

Starting point is 01:02:14 we call it delicate climbing um that is such an it's like the you win the understatement of my podcasting career awards so far. Yeah, delicate climbing. Yeah. And so it was my lead. And, you know, with so much of the climbing on expeditions like this, you have to really, sometimes you just have to take a really deep breath and believe in yourself that you will make the right decisions and you're going to draw from all your experience. It has to be tempered because

Starting point is 01:02:52 it can't be overconfidence. And there's this fierce concentration. Your world becomes so small in those moments. And in a way, also very expansive in the sense that you're so focused on the moment so so focused on the moment and and that's part of i know you're listening probably gonna think i'm completely insane but i mean that is part of the appeal of climbing is like nothing takes me out of thinking about my emails or, you know, all these random trivialities in life that we usually think are so important. You know, nothing takes me out of that more than climbing. And there's this kind of fierce concentration. And I was on that lead for six, I think it was actually eight hours, but, you know, it, it happened when I finished it

Starting point is 01:03:47 and I got to the anchor and I was ready to come back down. It felt probably more like 45 minutes, you know, and, um, it just, you, you have to have that belief that, you know, you can do it and you really draw deep into your experiences. And I've been in those situations before too, where it was in a way you, you, you train yourself to function in very high stakes, high consequence situations. And so you draw from that place. Yeah. I would imagine it's a process of sort of fear inoculation and exposing yourself to that in sort of a progression of difficulty, right?

Starting point is 01:04:32 Like you said, people take their experience on El Cap and then translate that into the bigger game, which is in Pakistan or wherever they might be. Talking about objectives, you said, I needed an objective in your conversation with Galen. I sent a text to your wife, who's an old friend, and we were going back and forth about various things, catching up with life.

Starting point is 01:04:59 Then I was talking about the film, and I put, Jimmy is a beast, capital letters, period. Good Lord, a real man in a world of, quote, guys, end quote, refreshing to see. Now, I'm not hitting on you, although it probably seems like I'm hitting on you. But I do think that there's a malaise among many males in, say, their 20s and 30s who are spending a lot of time sitting down in front of computer screens. And they just don't feel as sort of manually literate or physically capable as their forefathers. And I do think that causes a lot of problems um so what would what what uh speaking of some objectives right what are some skills or that you think every man should have or things that every man should have done well first of all i i first i'd like to probably address the fact that I personally feel doubt and inadequacies all the time.

Starting point is 01:06:10 I think people, you know, after being on tour with this film, people are like, wow, you know, you must not feel fear. You must not have any doubt. And I don't necessarily want to project that image because, you know, I think that, you know, I'm fearful all the time. And, you know, among my peer group, I'm always like, oh, my God, I'm such a wimp. You know, these guys, this guy's doing this and this guy's doing that. And I'm like, gosh, I don't know if I could do that, you know. And I just want to put it out there that that's okay. And that's normal. And that's, and I'm okay with that. But in terms of skills, like, I mean, if you're out there,

Starting point is 01:06:52 and, you know, I can't speak to all the different things out there. I mean, I don't know. No, but let's just say you've had, let's, let's pretend because no one's listening. It's just the two of us we've had three glasses of wine each yeah and then i ask you this question okay so that's a good way to put it well if you don't do this then you're a total candy ass right um well there's some skills I wish I had, you know, that I think would be good. But mountain climbing is a great objective because there's so much around it. There's like the organization. There's like the vision.

Starting point is 01:07:36 There's like the camaraderie when you get your friend to go up there with you. There's learning, technical skills. There's opportunities to learn about yourself and push yourself. It's physical. It's cerebral. So, you know, that might be unfair coming from a mountain climber, but that, I think mountain climbing can do a lot for you. And you get to be outside in these beautiful landscapes, which is a huge part of the inspiration for me. I'd say writing well has been extremely important. Not that I'm a great writer, but I think it's an incredible skill set that you need in whatever aspect of

Starting point is 01:08:20 life you have. What has helped you improve your writing the most, whether lessons or teachers or books or practices or anything? For me, it was probably early on was reading a lot and then finding, you know, favorite writers and examining why I liked their writing. And I know it's so cliche, but I mean, I freaking, I loved Hemingway, you know. Hemingway's great. Yeah. And in the same way, that's really how I developed my photography. I didn't have anybody teaching me it, but I looked at a ton of photography and I started

Starting point is 01:09:01 to break down why I liked certain photographers. And then, you know, there are certain photographers that helped shaped, you know, how I looked at my shooting. So, you know, it's like studying other great people in the field has always been a great way for me to learn. Who are some of your other favorite authors? Oh, man, there's... I'll throw out one just to buy you some time. I don't know if you've ever read Coming...

Starting point is 01:09:32 I think it's Coming Into the Country by John McPhee, M-C-P-H-E-E, about his travels in Alaska. I think it won the Pulitzer, but just incredible writing as it relates to his outdoor expeditions. Yeah, no, I've definitely read McPhee, Jonathan Franzen recently. John Krakauer is a friend of mine, but I've always been amazed at how he approaches his work. Did I say John Krakauer or did I just say John?

Starting point is 01:10:01 No, you said Krakauer. Okay. So let me think. Who else have I read recently? I think I just finished John Krakauer's book, Mazula. And I was just really impressed with how he basically, in a way, changed how he wrote to address the subject in the most powerful way that he could. And being able to morph that way was really impressive to me. When you, I mean, you guys obviously know one another.

Starting point is 01:10:35 You've met a lot of successful people. But when you think of the word successful, who is the first person who comes to mind and why? You know, who I've really been just endlessly impressed with is yvonne chenard and patagonia yeah yeah i mean obviously he's known for founding patagonia but it's it's like he he's found he's like hacked the system somehow you know i mean he's known for for founding patagonia but he also is i mean he's really you know he started one percent for the planet and he started you know patagonia land trust and he found a way to you know have a successful commercial endeavor understanding that there's necessary evils that that people are still going to buy stuff.

Starting point is 01:11:27 You still have to make clothing because people have to wear clothing. But yet, you know, his approach is like, we're going to make things that are best thing possible. And we're going to do it as ecologically sustainable as we can, you know. And he's also led this incredible life of adventure. And, you know, he's inspired me this incredible life of adventure. And he's inspired me in so many different levels. And I've been really fortunate to have spent some time with him. He's a sharp guy. He's a sharp dude.

Starting point is 01:11:59 And I remember his book, Let My People Go Surfing, I think is the name of it. Yeah. Had a really big impact on me when I first read it. So I want to say about 10 years ago. I keep it in my closet so that I see it every morning when I get dressed. It's sort of on the top shelf next to a few other books. What is the book that you've given most as a gift? There's probably two. One is Musashi. Oh, fantastic.

Starting point is 01:12:21 Yeah, loved that book. And the other one is probably this book called The Guide to the I Ching by Carol Anthony, which was given to me as a freshman by one of my comparative religion teachers. And I've pretty much traveled with that thing since. I've had a copy with me somewhere. And it's just an interesting take on an interesting perspective yeah the iching is uh iching it's i mean it's like a test in a way right or a mirror or both it's um yes i took an entire class in college on the iching and the interpretation and use of the iching in the historical context. Very, very fascinating. And I kind of put it

Starting point is 01:13:07 aside for a very long time. And now it's very timely that you bring it up. I should go order this because I'm getting back into examining sort of how to draw value out of that. The author is Carol Anthony. Yeah. And it's funny cause I don't consult, you call it consulting the I Ching very often. These days I almost carry it because I, and I, if I see it, I've, I've looked at it so often, so many times over the years that like, I just look at it and I'm like, okay, I kind of know what the answer is for this dilemma I'm having, you know. That's awesome. That's super cool. I'd love to talk about your morning rituals. On your ideal morning, what is the first, you know, like 60 to 90 minutes of your day look

Starting point is 01:14:00 like? When do you wake up? What are your morning, what morning rituals are important to you, et cetera. Besides getting up and looking at my Instagram. Oh my God. Did I say that out loud? Can you erase that? Uh, what, what, what time do you wake up? I usually wake up around seven, um, seven, eight, eight 30. if i've kind of gone out late and or stayed up late i i work late and it's a terrible habit like i i'm usually hammering emails until i fall asleep which is awful um i've been trying to train myself to to just read um which works every so often but in the morning in an ideal morning i would get up and the first thing you know one of the first things i would do would be to sit down and try to meditate um and and maintain that practice uh i'm not great but it's always been beneficial when i've had some consistency in doing it.

Starting point is 01:15:05 What type of meditation? Okay, sounds like transcendental meditation or no? Yeah, kind of a form of it. And, you know, I've kind of looked at and played with different forms of meditation, but that one, that form that form is, uh, kind of the type that I've been doing lately. Um, but I reach, I, I usually it's, I don't even want to say that it is TM cause it's more, it's like a conglomeration of different things that I've learned and thought about. And then it's breakfast, which is usually toast and jam or granola and bananas and yogurt,

Starting point is 01:15:59 something like that, or smoothie. And then I just open up my laptop it's so boring and i start looking at emails and trying to be and saying to myself oh my gosh i gotta like hammer these out because what i'm trying to do is get as much done as i possibly can in the first few hours of the morning because my head is clear so that I can go run outside and do something in the afternoon. Got it. So is, is the morning then that is when you're mentally sharpest and you want to then just knock stuff out before lunch that you can get outside and run around and do whatever activity you want to partake in. Uh, do you, uh, do you uh do you drink no not very much

Starting point is 01:16:47 mainly because i'm asian and i get a headache and fall asleep you guys you guys are not not great at processing ethanol you guys but uh no no but i do i do i have been known to drink and yes it's not uncommon for me to have a few drinks. If you walk into a bar, what would you order? I usually order a beer and nurse it for a long time. Tequila is probably where I go if I'm going out to have a pretty good time. Right. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:22 Tequila. Yeah, there's some good stuff out there. The Casa Amigos, the Casa Dragones. good time. Right. Yeah. Tequila. Yeah. There's some, there's some good stuff out there. The Casa Amigos, the Casa Dragones, there's a, I was never a tequila fan because it turned me into a complete lunatic. And that only changed when I stopped mixing it with other things. So unless, unless we count club soda, club soda is a fair mixer, but if I combine tequila with anything else, it's just a recipe for disaster in my experience. Yes. Good tequila, though.

Starting point is 01:17:53 What $100 or less purchase has most positively impacted your life in the last, say, 6 to 12 months? Yeah. yeah i mean a classic thing i always buy is one of the like niceties that i might get is this lip balm blackjack lip balm blackjack yep or no it's uh it's actually called jack black jack black lip balm got it and i've taken it on every expedition I've ever been on. And it's 25 SPF. And it's like one of the few things that keeps your lips from cracking on like a really tough expedition. So that's always nice to have. Yeah, that's simple. Jack Black lip balm.

Starting point is 01:18:43 I may be probably not doing anything stren simple. Jack Black lip balm. I'll, uh, I may be, uh, I probably not doing anything strenuous enough to warrant a lip balm, but I, that, that is probably an indication that I should get out and move my ass around in more strenuous environments. Uh, if you could have one billboard anywhere with anything on it, what would it, what would it say? Uh, that is a tough or I'll give you another one you can choose from well it's funny because i the two things that came into my mind like immediately was one was like chill or the other one was get after it oh yeah diametrically opposed i can i can see the conflict uh well maybe you put them in different places yes Yes, maybe. And I think that's probably,

Starting point is 01:19:27 yeah, that's kind of representative of the way I function. I tell people I'm the laziest, motivated person that I know, because I'm either just, you know, want to just completely kick it back or else I'm going 150 miles an hour right trying to hit a first ascent yeah involving in the house of cards and other things uh what advice would you give to your 30 year old self i would probably say think of the long game because you freak you out you're i freaked myself out so much being like, oh, my God, you know, I have to do this. I have to do that. I have to do this. And, you know, I've always lived my life with a sense of urgency.

Starting point is 01:20:15 And sometimes that works out in your favor. Sometimes you botch it and make bad, you know, quick decisions. And as I've gotten older, I've recognized that life just has its ups and downs. I mean, the classic, you know, Buddhist saying would be, you know, the middle path, you know, you don't get super excited and overconfident when something really great happens for you. And you don't get completely depressed if something bad happens for you. And you just have to understand that, you know, life goes in these crazy waves.

Starting point is 01:20:56 And you just hold steady and put one foot in front of the other. I love it. And putting one foot in front of the other is... That could be the subtitle of your latest film also. Could you please let everybody know where they can find the film, where they can find

Starting point is 01:21:20 more information online, and then where they can find you online. And of course, I will link to all of this in the show notes. But where can they learn more about Meru and more about you? So I think the best place to look is merufilm.com. So M-E-R-U film.com. And that has a list of all the theaters uh and and other information about the film and then our handle on social media for instagram uh twitter and facebook

Starting point is 01:21:54 are all also meru film or at meru film and we're releasing online in November on iTunes. So look for us there. And then for myself, it's just jimmychin.com. As we all know, documentaries kind of live and die by word of mouth. And hopefully people have an opportunity to see it. And if they like it, please share the stoke. That would be great. Yeah, you guys have to check it out.

Starting point is 01:22:24 Meru is spectacular uh we will chat maybe another time about how the hell you guys actually captured footage in a lot of these situations i think that's an entire entire conversation in and of itself but uh folks check it out it's very well worth the time you know i love docs and this is the best one i've seen in a very very long time so check it out if you want to be inspired, terrified, pee your pants just a little bit, which is always, it's good every once in a while. It's healthy for your bladder. Urethra, you should check it out. So Jimmy, I really appreciate the time, man. And you've inspired me to get my pale, lazy ass outside in much greater volume in the coming years.

Starting point is 01:23:08 So for that, I thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, man. Keep up the great work, and I will talk to you soon. All right. Thanks. Hey, guys. This is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is five bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And five bullet Friday is a very short

Starting point is 01:23:36 email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's

Starting point is 01:24:11 fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it.

Pet Camera - EBO Air 2

The Tim Ferriss Show - #114: The Athlete (And Artist) Who Cheats Death, Jimmy Chin

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Pet Camera - EBO Air 2

The Tim Ferriss Show - #114: The Athlete (And Artist) Who Cheats Death, Jimmy Chin

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.