The Tim Ferriss Show - #123: Rainn Wilson on Meditation, The Sexy Nostril Exercise, and Acting as Therapy

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Starting point is 00:03:06 This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. I'm sitting in the darkness on Long Island. I don't know why all my lights are out, but it is very moody in here. And that's not really appropriate to the episode you're going to listen to, which is a very fun, very funny episode with Rainn Wilson, who is best known for playing Dwight on NBC's Emmy winning The Office. You can say hello to him on Twitter, please do, at Rainn Wilson, R-A-I-N-N,

Starting point is 00:03:32 W-I-L-S-O-N. He's also acted in Super Cooties, Juno, Monsters vs. Aliens, The Rocker, and many other movies. He co-founded SoulPancake. I didn't know this before doing my homework for this interview, and I love SoulPancake. It is a media company that seeks to tackle life's big questions. They put out some amazing videos, including some massive mega hits like Kid President. initiative in rural Haiti that we'll talk about in this episode of it. He's also, last but not least, voice cracking like Doogie Howser, excuse me, the author of a brand new book, The Bassoon King, which is hilarious and very insightful. It is his laugh out loud memoir. We cover a lot in this episode. I won't go through everything because that would be ridiculous, but here are a few. The value of as if exercises from drama school, his meditation practices, we talk and compare different methods, the origins of Soul Pancake and some of their mega hits, favorite books, documentaries, and movies, acting as therapy, even for non-actors,

Starting point is 00:04:36 the sexy nostril exercise, and much more. So thank you for listening as always. And without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Rainn Wilson. Rainn, welcome to the show. Hey, Tim Ferriss. Good to be on your show. I have been looking forward to this and it's just before Thanksgiving, which is, I suppose, appropriate. You've put out a lot of good work in the world. So thank you for that. I'll begin with that. Oh, I appreciate it. And I've observed sort of the canon of work thus far, and you've spanned across multiple types of media. When you meet people and they ask you the question, what do you do? How do you typically answer that? Well, it's a little easier for me than it is for someone like you. I mean, I do a lot of different things, but my first answer is I'm an actor because that's where I started.

Starting point is 00:05:30 That's my greatest love. That's where I hope to be spending my dying breath. I'd love to be playing King Lear on a stage somewhere and keeling over when I'm 87 years old. So I'm an actor. I'm also an entrepreneur. I like to think of myself as a writer and a humanitarian as well. So throw those into the mix. Could you describe for people who aren't familiar with it, Soul Pancake? Because I love Soul Pancake and have been a consumer and I guess more recently a participant. I had an excerpt from an interview that I did, turned to animation and put on SoulPancake, which was extremely humbling and flattering.

Starting point is 00:06:14 But what it means to be wealthy, I guess, or defining that term. Could you tell people a bit about SoulPancake for those who aren't familiar? Sure. So when I started getting well known for being Dwight on The Office, I saw an incredible opportunity to do something distinct, unique, positive on the web. The web at that time, when we were first having these conversations in like 2008 was just the worst of humanity, just everything. It was just pop-up ads and porn and just crassness and chat rooms. And nowadays, it's actually, there's a lot more positive and interesting stuff on the web. But back then, not so much. I wanted a forum for people to be able to discuss what I call life's

Starting point is 00:07:01 big questions. That's something that's always really intrigued me. What it means to be a human being and all of the questions around that. Those are scientific questions. They're philosophical questions. They're spiritual questions. They're questions of art and creativity. It's what it means to be alive. There was no place on the web to kind of discuss that stuff. So we started as a kind of a blog slash social networking site where we had posts and people could write in their own life's big questions, create member names and interact with each other. And it was really cool for a while. Then we started making some video content on the side, just as a side thing. I had done Oprah's podcast and I started doing some stuff with the Oprah Winfrey network and making some little videos. We started a YouTube channel. Then all of a sudden we saw, wait a second, we're way better at making videos than we are at making web technology for interaction between people.

Starting point is 00:08:07 So we kind of ditched the whole – in fact, we did. We ditched our website. We pivoted completely, and we became a media company. So SoulPancake is a media company. We put out digital content across multiple platforms through the social networks, through YouTube. We do stuff on television. We do stuff for brands and advertising. And it's also changed a little bit in that now our mission is to produce inspiring content about stuff that matters.

Starting point is 00:08:39 And that's what we're about. And when was it founded originally? 2009. 2009. 2009. And how did you decide on SoulPancake, or how did the team decide on SoulPancake as a name, and what were some of the names you decided against? Yeah. One of the really difficult topics that we were going to try and bring up at SoulPancake, which is the hardest topic in the world to bring up these days. And that is spirituality. So we wanted something that dealt with spirit. It's not a spirituality site. That's just one of the many things that we

Starting point is 00:09:15 talk about. But if you're going to talk about the human experience, that's part of the human experience. So we wanted something that had a little bit of a tip of the hat towards spirituality so we we literally were like on one of those sites where you you know go daddy or one of those sites where you look up website names right we had food food items written on the wall and little three by five cards and um and then other catchy spiritual and philosophical minded phrases so we had like holy taco and spirit burrito and all these crazy names we were tossing and funny story i tell this in the book that i wrote um this was actually in andy grammer's apartment andy grammer's a big pop star nowadays back then he was a struggling street musician.

Starting point is 00:10:07 So I like to think that maybe we helped him out by having this discussion in his house. But then Soul Pancake was just, it wasn't taken. So we were like, hey, that's perfect. Everything that was taken, it was crazy what was taken. Like who registers the domain name Spirit Taco? It's like, come on. Right.

Starting point is 00:10:27 Somebody in Montenegro who's just sitting on that waiting for the big bid. Yeah. For his big payday. And a lot of people know of Kid President and that video and then the sequence of videos. Did that originate on soul pancake? Yeah. Um, uh, not exactly. We were having a discussion early on when we started our YouTube channel and, uh, Devin Gundry, a co-founder of soul pancake was talking. He said, you know, we really need more joy on our channel. Part of what we try and do at soul pancakes, we try and

Starting point is 00:11:04 be of service. So we're a for-profit at Soul Pancakes, we try and be of service. So we're a for-profit company, but we're also trying to be of service to the world. It's a, it's kind of a crazy mission. Um, just, it's an experiment. We're just seeing what happens. So we were looking for joy on the internet. That's a hard thing to find. Um, uh, absolute joy, not like funny LOLs with cats on pianos and stuff like that, but actual joy. And, uh, absolute joy, not like funny LOLs with cats on pianos and stuff like that, but actual joy. And, uh, Bobby Miller, our channel manager, um, said, Hey, have you seen this kid, kid president?

Starting point is 00:11:33 He only had like two or three videos out at the time that only had like 5,000 views. And he was in Tennessee, a little, uh, African-American kid in a suit in a fake oval office made out of cardboard and him and his brother-in-law, Brad a suit in a fake oval office made out of cardboard. And him and his brother-in-law, Brad Montague, who's a brilliant filmmaker, had done these little videos and were like, let's bring him over. So we just contacted him and said, come over to the pancake family. And a few videos later, when we had kind of given him a little bit more of a budget and some better writing and some inspiration, they came up with

Starting point is 00:12:05 Kid President's Pep Talk, which has like 50 million video views at this point. Yeah, it's incredible. It's an incredibly good, incredibly well, excuse me, I guess across Soul Pancake, you have well over 200 million views at this point. That may not be up to date, but that's the best number I could find. What would you like to, what would you like to see for, for its future? Well, we, we want to be, so pancake wants to be kind of, uh, for lack of a better phrase, I know this is going to make some people cringe. I always, ah, drives me crazy, but I'm going to say it. I'm going to go there, Tim Ferriss, Go for it. And that is, we're going to be, we want to be like the Oprah Winfrey for millennials. We want to be the place that the brand that has carved out the niche of feel good, inspiring,

Starting point is 00:12:59 uplifting entertainment that digs into big issues for young people. So we want to own that space. And that's our goal as a media company. It's an admirable goal, I think. Switching gears just a little bit, of course, you mentioned Dwight. You're very well known for playing Dwight on The Office, but you've picked a very wide range of different characters and projects. What has been the most challenging that comes to mind and how did you prepare for it? Well, that's a great and deep question. So you're getting into the task and the craft of acting.

Starting point is 00:13:42 A lot of acting is just like, just stand there and listen and respond and be yourself and it's not that hard. Sometimes acting is hard. There's certain roles that are super challenging. I did a movie about

Starting point is 00:13:59 four years ago called Hesher with Joseph Gordon Levitt and Natalie Portman, in which I played a dad, a dramatic role of a dad, a pill-popping dad whose wife had just died a few months earlier, just kind of stuck in his grief. And that was really challenging because I had to bring, you had to really bring it. You can't fake it. You can't fake cry. You can't fake be sad. You've got to go to some really dark places in a movie like that to, to make it believable and make it pop. So that was a very, uh, hard, um, month of doing that movie and

Starting point is 00:14:38 challenging. And, um, uh, yeah, so I hope people didn't really see the film. You know, they don't really see a lot of independent films these days, but it's a really terrific film. Metallica does the music for it. And it's it's really kind of badass and sad and profound and funny at the same time. How do you explore a dark character like that or a backstroke for that matter? I mean, that's another one, which I think people would not immediately envision in their mind as a role you would grab given the amount of comedy that you've done. But when you're trying to put yourself, develop that character, put yourself into a state that facilitates the character, how do you go about doing that? And is it something that you can slip in and out of or does that put you into a funk for the entire period that you're

Starting point is 00:15:28 doing the shooting? Well, there have been a few times when I have kind of just had myself kind of really enter the worldview of the character. So the important thing when you're playing a character is you've got to see the world through their eyes. If you can really see the world through the character's eyes, then it doesn't matter what lines you have or what scenes you have or what conversations you have or situations, it'll be truthful because you're really tapped into it. So sometimes you, I'm not like all Mr. Method actor or something like that, but there are certain roles where you, you have to do that. You have to, you have to go there, um, for the duration of the film or when you're on set, or at least just around when you're shooting. Um, my favorite analogy is there's this extra acting exercise you do in acting school called as if, so you, you just pretend as if. So you just pretend as if. So now my wife wasn't killed in a brutal car accident,

Starting point is 00:16:29 and I wasn't addicted to pills. But I can imagine what that might be like. So you act as if your wife, my wife, who I love, I've been with for 20 years, I imagine what that would be like if I were to lose her. And if I were to be on pill, I've certainly been on pills before. I've taken drugs before. I know what that's like. You know, I've experienced grief before. I've lost friends. So you kind of cultivate a kind of emotional imagination. There's an emotional landscape that you try and inhabit. And you just go deeply into your imagination. It's just like pretending. I mean, it's basically kids in a sandbox, like you're a pirate and I'm a space alien. Let's pretend and ready, go. And you just do it on a much, much deeper level. That's

Starting point is 00:17:18 really all acting is about. And part of the reason I ask is because I wonder when you hear people talk of, say a life imitating art or imitating life, if learning to go into a very deep, dark, maybe depressive character in any way helps you get out of dark and depressive periods in your own life. So maybe jumping to, to that side of things, uh, are there any particular low periods in your life or career that, uh, you were able to dig your way out of, or build yourself back up out of, uh, that you think are illustrative or important, very pivotal in your life? Well, that's a great question that I've never been asked before. I think that when I did Backstrom,

Starting point is 00:18:13 I was going through a really hard time in life. It had nothing to do with the office ending. It was just a hard time in life. And that was both challenging and exhilarating to play a character like Everett Backstrom for those of you, for those 12 of you who watched the show, thank you and for the rest of you fuck off. Can I say fuck off on your podcast? No, I'm just kidding He's a very dark

Starting point is 00:18:46 human being. He sees the worst in everybody and he sees only kind of the corrosive in, in reality. So it was, it was challenging and helpful at the same time to be in his worldview, especially when I was shooting the pilot. It was, it was very hard. And, um, uh, to go there when, when my life was having a difficult time, but at the same time, I, um, I kind of found it exhilarating. I wish I could answer it better than that, but it's both. What was difficult? If you're open to talking about it, what was difficult about your life at the time? I was just going through some family stuff and marital stuff and personal stuff that was, that was just really difficult. And then I was flying up to Vancouver shooting Backstrom and it was, um, it was just a hard time.

Starting point is 00:19:41 Uh, so it was just a really challenging time on multiple levels. What do you do when you feel overwhelmed? What do you, what do you do to improve the situation? Um, well, you know, I have a spiritual faith that I rely on that I use. So I use prayer and meditation as tools to center me and bring me back kind of into reality. I also find that for me, like acting as a wonderful escape, because you get out of your own head and you get to go into someone else's head. And, you know, it was like that on The Office too, and doing comedy, you know, and life was good and life was bad. It was something wonderful about coming to Dwight. And I could just put Rainn Wilson aside and just all of that bullshit and clear it out of my head and out of my heart and just be Dwight Schrute.

Starting point is 00:20:40 And sometimes it was just super, super fun to do that. So those are some of the tools. Acting is a tool. Prayer and meditation is a tool I use to kind of bring myself into the world. And your faith, I know I'm going to massacre this because I've only read it and not heard it said, but is it Baha'i? Is that correct? Yeah, Baha'i. Baha'i.

Starting point is 00:21:04 There we go. Thank you. Like, Bahá'í, how you doing? Yeah. And I want to come back to that, but what does your, when you meditate, what does that look like? And do you do it on a daily basis? What's the format of that? Yeah, I try and meditate every day. There's no format in the Bahá'í faith. It's just greatly encouraged to meditate. When you pray, you're communing with the creator. You're communing with the universe. You're putting stuff out there. And when you're meditating, you're listening to the universe. But it's really pretty simple. If I even do a 10 minute meditation and out of that 10 minutes, if four of the minutes, my mind can be very still and very silent. There's great guided meditations. Now there's apps, there's all kinds of things that you can do for meditation.

Starting point is 00:21:53 But for me, it's just about, I won't say silencing the mind because that's impossible. So the mind is those thoughts are always going to pop up, but those thoughts pop up. You just notice them. You identify them. You let them float in front of your eyes, almost like, you know, one of those old fashioned Wall Street ticker machines. And, and, and, and do you find a tremendous, I find a tremendous amount of peace, serenity and bliss in just being in consciousness and consciousness is not thought consciousness is just being, I am this being, I am not separate from the giant being of

Starting point is 00:22:35 earth and the cosmos and the universe. And just being in that stillness, uh, is incredibly rewarding. I get up, I get really, um, a ton of clarity and I get a ton of energy from it. And these have been proven in scientific studies, by the way, in all kinds of things from healing trauma to giving you more energy to giving you more focus in your work. Meditation is a pretty incredible tool. And lowering cortisol. I've been spending time interacting with some researchers at Johns Hopkins, a gentleman named Roland Griffiths, and also a gent named Adam Gazalia runs a neuroimaging lab at UCSF. And what's been very interesting, and we don't have to go down the rabbit hole with this, but it appears that if you look at experienced meditators and brain activity, and I'm blanking on the particular area.

Starting point is 00:23:31 I think it might be somewhere in the parietal lobe, but I could be off. In any case, there's a portion of the brain that is thought to contribute to the separation of self and other. So it's associated with, let's just call it the ego. And that is inhibited both in the use of say psilocybin, which was found in magic mushrooms, but also you experience a similar type of pattern in experienced meditators, which is kind of cool. And, uh, well, I know that they, Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, no, no. Go ahead. I know. I heard a fascinating thing on the radio once where they did a study and they found the happiest man in the world. So they did a brain scan and they found the happiest person they could possibly find. And this guy was I think he was an American, but he's living in Wisconsin.

Starting point is 00:24:20 But he was a he was a student of Tibetan Buddhism. And at the time when they did the brain scan, which charted out as the very happiest, he was in the process of meditating, and it was a meditation of kind of universal compassion. So it's a meditation where you are feeling at one with everyone and great compassion for everyone on planet Earth and all beings on planet earth and every, and all beings on planet earth, not human, animal, plant, what they're going through.

Starting point is 00:24:55 And in so doing that achieved like the greatest happiness that, that kind of goes along with what you're saying. No, definitely. And it's, I mean, there is a sort of, uh, even if you are self-interested, there's a biological benefit to empathy and compassion meditation. And, uh, and I just to reiterate something you said, because I think it's so important, uh, is that, you know, I try to meditate 20 minutes each morning. And like you mentioned, there are apps like calm and headspace that are very helpful for this. But even if I'm just violently, violently, excuse me, let me try English again, violently getting punched in the psyche by my to-do list and worries and anxieties and thoughts for 15 or even 18 minutes out of 20.

Starting point is 00:25:33 If I have two minutes where the mud kind of settles and the mind is clear, it has an incredible impact on the entire day for me. I feel exactly the same way. That's exactly my experience. Even out of a 10 minute meditation, if I can just get two or three minutes in there where I have almost achieved thoughtlessness and just, um, kind of a serene bliss,

Starting point is 00:25:58 it's, it's like getting, it's like taking a power nap, you know, and it helps you through your whole day. Definitely. And I had, I think it was Tara Brock who said this to me, but it might have been someone else. But they said if you just come back to your breath or a mantra or whatever it is that you're focusing on, if you're doing concentrative meditation, it's the coming back that is the practice.

Starting point is 00:26:20 So if you're just distracted and you're basically just bouncing off the walls mentally with your monkey mind for those 19 minutes, if you come back even once, you can consider it a successful session. I think for type A personalities, that's really important to keep in mind. You mentioned something I'd love to explore a little bit, which is that acting can be a wonderful escape. And I'm paraphrasing here, but from your own head, I was actually watching Amy yesterday, which is a documentary about Amy Winehouse and very, very sad story and tragic on many levels, but she produced some beautiful music from bad experiences. And so she was able to escape her own head by putting these poems, which became songs on paper. Uh, are there any particular exercises, uh, from whether it's acting school or improv or otherwise that you think could benefit non-actors who just want to help create new avenues of thinking or embrace some type of therapeutic effect of getting outside of their own head. Yeah. You know, um, specific ones, I suppose I could go into, but I studied with a great teacher in NYU, uh, uh, named Paul Walker. He's he's, he died of AIDS, but he was, uh, an, uh, an exquisite,

Starting point is 00:27:38 uh, teacher and he taught theater games. And for me, that was a real revelation because I had when I had tried acting early on, I was very stiff and very in my head and cerebral and kind of stuck and kind of like it was very conscious. Like, how am I going to say this line and how do I best look when I'm turning this way? It's just a very self-conscious style of acting that was bad. It was sucking. So what Paul got us doing in acting school at NYU was just playing. And there's something incredibly freeing about playing like a kid and that your impulses as an actor and your impulses as a kid at play are really the same thing. Like I said before, it's deeply pretending. So, you know, are there specific exercises? I mean, I suppose I could think of some, but, you know, how much fun is it to play red light, green light, and for 20 minutes or duck, duck, goose, and then to move from those exercises into more and more imaginative kind of improvisations, but where, where you allow yourself to just

Starting point is 00:28:45 play like a child. And sometimes children play and they're competitive. Sometimes they play and they're very serious. Um, it's not all kind of this general, like we kind of stuff. And I found that so freeing and it was the, it was the key for me as an actor that kind of broke me open and got me out of my head and just got me in my body and in that place of kind of pure imagination and spontaneity that you really want as an actor. And I think it seems to me also, when you put yourself in that place, much like meditation, you have to be present state aware. You can't be worrying about something that you have scheduled two weeks in the future or resenting something like somebody had to cut you off in traffic that

Starting point is 00:29:36 morning. You have to be in that moment and be effective and to have fun. You just can't be distracted by those things. Yeah. Like we'll do a thing where you, I just remembered because I did it recently at Soul Pancake, I did some sessions with the employees at Soul Pancake. I do kind of games and improv stuff where everyone has a number from one to ten. There's two teams of ten on each side of the room. There's a stool in the center of the room with a shoe on it. The goal is you've got to get the shoe and then get back to your place in line, right? It's a pretty simple game.

Starting point is 00:30:07 But then you also do this game called sexy nostril. You write down adjectives and you write down body parts. So it could be angry, sad, lonely, energetic. Those are the adjectives. And then body parts, you know, earlobe, testicle, anus, shoulder, blade, you know, fingernail, whatever. And you draw one of each. And then you try and play a game manifesting those characteristics. So if you have sex in the nostril, and then you have to play that same game of getting the shoe and getting back the line.

Starting point is 00:30:41 But you're a person where the center of their energy is in their nostril. And it's a very sensual sexual energy. And you're just kind of, it helps you create a character and play as that character. And it's, it takes you out of your head and it just gets you in your body and gets you kind of feeling and responding. And, uh, I love teaching that stuff. Uh, it's, it's, uh, it's super fun. And for me, Tim, I'm in my head a lot and it kind of sucks. So there's certain tools that I have to use to get by. So I've learned in my life, I don't remember every day, but there's certain things I have to do to just be out of my head and just to get to normal. I'm not talking about like being like really super effective. Just to get to normal,

Starting point is 00:31:25 I have to do meditation. I have to do some exercise. If I can get into nature, great. If I could play some tennis, better. And acting is that same way. Acting, rehearsing, playing characters. These are the things that get me out of my head and out of just analyzing every goddamn thing that comes down the pike and leaves me miserable and making really bad choices. No, I am. I'm laughing because I spent so much time in my own head. And when people are like, are you going to write another book? I'm like, well, actually I can't contend with another three years in my own head right now. So no, I'm going to be putting that up and we're, and we're going to, we're definitely, I want to talk about your book before we get to that.

Starting point is 00:32:10 Um, I, uh, I guess you mentioned exercise. Uh, you also mentioned tennis. Are there any particular types of exercise or how do you exercise? What is your, your routine, your ideal exercise routine? I'm the worst. First of all, I'm a big fat slob. So, um, I'm not, I'm not, you know, uh, I'm not, uh, I don't have the four hour work week and the four hour body down and the four hour this I'm like, I can do four hours of video games um the four-hour video game diet i um uh why i jog which i love doing because

Starting point is 00:32:50 it also clears my head and there's something physiologically which you i'm sure you know about about walking and jogging that it actually is really healing to the brain because it when you do it the energy goes back and forth between both lobes of the brain. So when I was reading about that, I was wondering, like, why when I go jogging, I feel so refreshed. And it's not just the exercise. It's also that physiological component. I play tennis about twice a week. I'd love to play more like three or four times a week. When I play tennis, it's all your focus on the ball and the focus on your movement and these kind of spiral movements that you're making.

Starting point is 00:33:32 And that really gets you out of your head good. And then recently, just literally in the last year or two, I've been doing some weight training, which I find just I feel really good doing it. But everything I do is super light and really undisciplined. So please don't, don't let, there's not going to be a rain Wilson, uh, diet and exercise book coming out anytime soon. Uh, I feel bad even talking to you about it. Cause you're like the math, you're like the Zen master of all things exercise. Well, I mean, the good news is it's, it's, it's very, very minimalist. So we can definitely talk about that another time, anytime. The next few questions I'd like to ask, and I have a feeling that, well, Baha'i is definitely going to come back into this, but to fire off a couple of very short questions, and the answers don't need to be short, but they can be. When you think of the word successful, who is the first person who comes to mind and why successful, um, oh man, you're killing me. Um, um, wow. I, I don't have anyone coming to mind. Is that weird? It's not weird. We could try another adjective. Maybe when you think of the word admirable, who's the first person who comes to mind and why?

Starting point is 00:34:57 You know, when I think of admirable, I do a lot of work in Haiti. And there's a lot of people there that I've met over the years that have given up big careers. They've given up a lot of money and a lot of potential in people that don't, that don't have much. And to me, that's really admirable. Um, uh, there's a woman I'm thinking of that taught school her whole life in Haiti and then retired and had a little bit of retirement money. And then she, uh, her name is Sue Puzo. And she retired and went to her house. And the next morning there was a ring at her doorbell. And there was a little Haitian boy. And he said, hey, I heard you used to teach.

Starting point is 00:35:53 She said, yeah. And he's like, well, I need to learn how to read. Will you teach me how to read? And she's like, okay, come in. Let me give you a little lesson. And she gave him a few little exercises and some sheets to work on. Then the next morning he knocks on the door and there's three little boys there. And he's like, I brought two of my friends. We all want to learn how to read. And she's like, okay, come in. Then the next day there were more, the next day there were more.

Starting point is 00:36:12 All of a sudden this retired school teacher who's in her seventies has created a school in her backyard. And I'm not exaggerating. It's all in her backyard of her house, and there's classrooms. There's a tool shed that has first grade, and a palm frond has kindergarten under it, and the third graders are on her deck, and in her kitchen are the fourth graders. And she's hired teachers, and she's used her retirement money and what little inheritance she had to hire teachers and start a little school. And then she even rented the house next door to house these homeless street kids. And I got to see this firsthand many times on many trips down to Haiti and watch the evolution of the school. Eventually, her and her husband just got too sick and too old to continue it. And they had to transition the kids into other places.

Starting point is 00:37:02 But when I think of admirable, like really admirable, you know, I know a lot of billionaires. I know a lot of actual like billionaires and people with a lot of money. I know people, I know movie stars and people that are very successful in the entertainment industry. Nothing against them. And a lot of them are really admirable, successful people. Um, but that's what, when I think about that, like what really moves me in my heart about, you know, what is admirable, it's, um, it's selfless giving to someone else, uh, to me is, is truly admirable. Supuzo. Uh, and you, you have an educational initiative as I understand it. And I'm going to probably mispronounce this one too. Is it Lide? Am I off? Lide. Lide. So close, but so far. Yeah. And that, can you describe what, what Lide is, is doing in Haiti? Yeah, well, my wife and I went down to Haiti to tour some schools before

Starting point is 00:38:08 the earthquake, just a few months before the earthquake. So it's like six, six and a half years ago now. And we fell in love with that country. And I really encourage you, all your listeners to go down to Haiti and give it a tour and check it out because you fall in love with the country. It's a beautiful country as ravaged as it is, as poor as it is, as desperate as it is. There's something magical about it. It's, it's, it's really the, the, the culture, the art, the music, the people, the sense of humor, the food, the life is really infectious. People really fall in love with it. So we fell in love with it. Then the earthquake happened. So we started going down and doing this trauma work

Starting point is 00:38:50 with adolescent girls after the earthquake where we'd use the arts to kind of heal trauma. And then we saw all these incredible effects of using the arts with adolescent girls and education for adolescent girls and literacy for adolescent girls. And then the more I was reading about it, you know, I read a lot about in the United Nations recently had a study and you're going to hear more and more about this, that the number one way to eradicate poverty in the world is to educate girls. Oh, totally.

Starting point is 00:39:26 Girls education is the number one way. Yeah, because if you educate a girl, you're ultimately educating a family. And I hate to say it for the male gender, but there's a lot of like playing craps and drinking and so on. No, I always say if you educate a girl, she educates her children, her cousins, her aunts, her mom, her sisters, and her neighbors. If you educate a boy, they move to the big city and become an Uber driver. And that's – or the equivalent. That's what always happens.

Starting point is 00:39:56 So we got into this arts education and girls education. So we're out in rural Haiti. We're way out in the north of Haiti. We go to some really far out places that most Haitians don't even know exist. And we do arts and self-empowerment, self-esteem workshops and literacy. And then we give scholarships and try and get the girls in the educational system. And I will link to that organization in the show notes along with everything else for people who want to learn more about it. Going a little micro, I guess, besides The Bassoon King, what is the book you've given most to other people as a gift?

Starting point is 00:40:40 The book I've given the most as a gift is called The Family Virtues Guide by, I think it's Linda Popoff is the last name, I think, P-O-P-O-V. The Family Virtues Guide is a really interesting thing I give to parents. It basically talks about virtues-based education. And it's for all kids. You can be atheist, you can be Catholic, Muslim, you can have faith, you can be agnostic, whatever. One of the recent developments to an education has been around, you can call it whatever you like. I like calling it virtues, but you can call it character traits or positive character leadership traits or whatever. But teaching a kid the stuff they don't learn in school about virtues, for instance, what are

Starting point is 00:41:32 virtues? Compassion, honesty, kindness, humility, perseverance, determination. All of these are positive virtues. You can look at them from a religious standpoint. You can look at them just from up, just a entrepreneurial, you know, standpoint, but kids really thrive when they learn these virtues and the world is really hurting because the kids don't have them nowadays. They don't learn them in school. And a lot of times they don't learn them from their parents. So family virtues guide gives all these exercises to her. We have like a virtue of the week. Like we'll have determination as a virtue of the week. And then every day we'll check in like, Hey, how was your determination day? And my son, Walter, who's 11, like he'll go

Starting point is 00:42:17 like, well, I was really having a hard time. And then I got really determined and I pushed through and I finished the test and, and I feel really good about myself. So, um, and so creating a consciousness about these character traits is, uh, uh, really important. It's a great tool for teachers. There's also a teacher's guide by the same author. And I just think it's a, it's a gold mine that I'm so glad you brought that up. It's very Ben Franklin. I've been looking for a book like this, and not because I have children, but because I've always wondered, why aren't these traits or characteristics or virtues, very similar to sort of Arete in ancient Greece, why aren't they taught in a progressive way with exercises? Because you could, you could

Starting point is 00:43:07 ostensibly put something like that together, a curriculum where you have sort of comfort challenges and exercises that develop each of these or test each of these. And I feel like the Family Virtues Guide is just the beginning. I think you could go way farther than it goes. And I think you're right. There could be an entire curriculum based around this stuff. But what is incredible is when you bring your consciousness to it, like what happens when you bring your consciousness to compassion? And you have a child, an eight-year-old or even a teenager noticing compassion around them and then noticing when they're compassionate to someone else. Compassion can be trained like any other muscle. Oh, definitely. I mean, completely. And I think there's also a neurological

Starting point is 00:43:49 basis for that. There would have to be that. I would think if you're, if you're, if you're digging the groove and the sort of mental record player for compassion, it's going to become more and more of a reflexive action or thought pattern at the very least. Do you have any favorite documentaries or films? Um, I have tons of favorite documentaries. Um, um, now you, well, you're really, you stump people with the questions cause they're so, um, God damn you. They're highly specific. We can come back to this one too. Okay. Let's come back to that. Let me, let me mold that. Okay. So we'll come back to

Starting point is 00:44:30 the documentaries. Um, another highly specific one, what, uh, purchase, it doesn't have to be a purchase, but it could be something free, but what purchase of a hundred dollars or less has most positively impacted your life in recent memory? Okay. It's not $100 or less, but I have to talk about it. Let's do it. Okay. So I was snoring, and I was driving my wife crazy,

Starting point is 00:45:03 and I was kind of snoring more and more as I was getting through my 40s. And so I went in, and then I got this mouth guard from my dentist that not only stops me from grinding my teeth, but it kind of moves my jaw forward, like, like just by half an inch or something like that when I sleep. So it clears like this air channel and like all of a sudden, like I'm breathing better all night long and not snoring. And I'm getting like a way better night's sleep and it's completely transformed my life. And it's so funny that it's just this little plastic mold, you know, you'd put your teeth in the mold and I wear that in my, in my, in my sleep. And it has just, it's literally changed my life. A piece of plastic in my mouth has changed my life. I love it plastic in my mouth has changed my life.

Starting point is 00:45:45 I love it. And that's something people can experiment with also. If they don't want to go to the dentist, I mean, as someone who's worn way too many mouthguards because I had a habit of enjoying getting punched in the head or kicked in the face doing combat sports, which I don't recommend for anyone who wants to preserve cognitive function. You can just get something in a sporting goods store. And I guess the plus is if you're sleeping and you have a home intruder, you also have sort of home game advantage. Uh, but, uh, what is something that can I kick, can I kick you in the face or the head? I tell you what, I'll start doing neck exercises. You can start working on your hamstring flexibility, and then I'm happy to let you give it a go.

Starting point is 00:46:27 All right. Boom. We're on. Oh, this is good. We can put it on SoulPancake. That could be very inspiring. Rainn Wilson kicks Tim Ferriss in the face. It just needs to be a 15-second video. It's all viral. Yeah, it can be used on Vine. It's very multipurpose. What is something that you believe that other people think is insane if anything i've got plenty for myself but i'm curious if if anything comes i have so i have so many things that i believe that people think are just insane i believe that world peace is possible i I really do. I believe that, you know, some things are going

Starting point is 00:47:06 to have to change. We're not even close to being there yet. But I do believe that humanity can put its worst nature aside and find a way to come together. And we see aspects of this more and more. I mean, look at the way the Western states are acting and interacting and what had the tragedy in France and the way, especially the Western world rallied and interacting and what had the tragedy in France and the way, especially the Western world rallied around France. And, you know, there's a couple of folks out there, there's a couple of countries that are some, that have some big issues and some big problems, but I truly believe that humanity can do this. We can come together on world peace. We can reduce our armaments to what we need to defend ourselves. And we can just work on making a better world.

Starting point is 00:47:48 I think that we can get there. I think that it's really easy to just be negative and like, oh, that's bullshit. We'll never get there. Not with people the way they are. That's such an easy fallback position. So I guess that's something else that I believe, is that cynicism is a disease that robs people of the gift of life. And it's just it's easy. It's way easier to be negative, sarcastic and cynical. It's an easy fallback position. And it's much harder to be hopeful and positive and proactive.

Starting point is 00:48:20 I completely agree. And I think also that there's a, by being against passive armchair cynicism, it doesn't mean you're against constructive skepticism, if that makes sense. A lot of people feel like, oh, you're saying I can't be critical. It's like, no, I want you to be critical, but I want you to be critical in a constructive way where you're actually making mistakes of ambition as opposed to mistakes of sloth. What's your intention in being critical? Is your intention in being critical to make the world a better place or to bring enlightenment? Then great. But if your intention in being critical is to bring people down and hold people back, like, ah, that'll never work, then that's just bullshit. No, I agree. One of the more interesting discussions about world peace that I've seen was actually an experimental class at Stanford with BJ Fogg. It was part of the Persuasive Technology Lab. I think it was Peace Innovation is what they called it.

Starting point is 00:49:15 But what they realized very quickly, they had a class that was full of many people from, of course, different genders, different cultures, different religions. And they had a lot of trouble on agreeing upon what world peace would look like as a single concept. And what BJ did, which I thought was very smart, he said, okay, if we're having trouble agreeing on what world peace exactly would look like, let's agree on some of the antecedents. Like, what are the components that would at least have to be part of something that looks like world peace? And so they started creating these subcategories and smaller addressable components of world peace. So at the very least, I mean, thinking about that would improve things. And you might not get to perfection, but you, you can at least improve, uh, get to better. Um, are there any common misconceptions about you?

Starting point is 00:50:13 Um, I think the most common misconception of me is that I'm like Dwight. Uh, just people know me as Dwight and they're like, they see me in the airport. It's like, Dwight, it's Dwight. Hey, Dwight. And, um, you know, uh, which is a really weird question. Also, when people say,

Starting point is 00:50:30 Hey, are you Dwight? It's like, well, um, I played Dwight, but I can't say I played Dwight. Cause then I sound like a douche bag.

Starting point is 00:50:39 Cause I'm like, uh, well, no, I actually, I played Dwight. It's actually a very Dwightish thing to say, but it's a weird thing to say. Yes, I am Dwight, because I'm not Dwight.

Starting point is 00:50:49 I'm Rain. It was one of like 100 different characters that I've played in my life is Dwight. So that's kind of weird. So I think that's a misconception. What do you, in Ezrain, what do you have most in common with Dwight and what do you have? What, what, what is completely different about the two of you? I guess, uh, what I have most in common is principles. Uh, I don't always hold up to them by the way, but I kind of have high principles about what I should do, what people should do and what's, what's right. Um,

Starting point is 00:51:27 um, and, uh, what do I have least in common with, with him is, um, I think, um, uh, he's just much more, um, uh, regimented and authoritative and, um, things in boxes and straight lines. Um, so I, I don't work that way. Um, I'm quite the opposite. And why did you decide to write a book? Um, I had a story to tell. I knew that I had a lot of funny anecdotes and uh they're you know most of the stories as comedy most of the book is just i just tried to make it funny and i think it is very funny uh it's my own peculiar look at the world but i also had a story to tell and that story was you know when i look back on my life when i founded soul pancake and i actually this happened when I wrote the introduction of the SoulPancake book that came out about five years ago. I realized that, you know, this spiritual journey that I've been on, which is part of my journey as a Baha'i, a member of the Baha'i faith, is really interesting to me.

Starting point is 00:52:40 It may not be interesting to anyone else. To me, it's very interesting growing up in faith, losing faith, becoming an atheist and having nothing to do with God or faith or devotion or religion or anything like that. And then slowly, very slowly over a decade of search, going on a spiritual search to find myself, to find God, my place in the universe. And to me, that's a really interesting through line that runs through the book. So it's 80, 90% comedy, but it has a little bit of this kind of spiritual quest in it. And I think that we're all on that spiritual quest. We're all like Kwai Chang Kane, wandering around the old West, you know, looking for our identities and, and for meaning in the world. And that's okay.

Starting point is 00:53:28 Meaning doesn't have to be accomplishment in the traditional Western sense, through accruing crap. Meaning can come in a lot of other ways. So it helped me find a lot of meaning. And, and that's why I wrote the book. So you had the Soul Pancake book, Chew on Life's Big Questions, and now The Bassoon King, My Life in Art, Faith, and Idiocy. What did you learn in the process of making the learned in writing the introduction to the soul pancake book was that oh there's a much larger story to tell here what i learned in writing the bassoon king is and i highly suggest everyone writing a memoir at some point in time tim maybe that's your next book maybe it's just you know a story of your life because people just love stories of people's lives and their struggles

Starting point is 00:54:25 and their ups and downs and their positive things. But what I learned is like, how many of my greatest failures and tests have really made me who I am today? Like, I'll give you a quick example. I was cast in a Broadway show when I was about 29 or 30 years old, my first Broadway show. And I sucked. I bombed. I have a chapter called I bombed on Broadway. I again, I was very in my head. I was very stuck and cerebral and stiff. And I couldn't get out of it. And I tried and I tried, but I just was terrible in the part. But after I finished that show, I was kind of like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm never doing that again. I'm never going to get stuck in that again. I just, I can't life is too short. I'm too miserable. And I gotta be me as an actor.

Starting point is 00:55:16 I have to bring who I really am as a, as a human to my acting. So it's, it's quirky. I'm offbeat. I'm odd. I'm a weirdo. I buy shirts at the thrift store. And this is who I am and this is who I have to be. So it really changed me as an actor and as an artist. I went through hell in that Broadway show. But if I hadn't gone through that hell, I never would have been able to play Dwight Schrute. I never would have had the success that I had in LA and on TV and film in doing odd characters if I hadn't gone through that terrible, terrible ordeal. So that was an incredible thing to learn from writing a book, looking back at those failures and how they can be transformative. I think if I ever write a memoir, I'll have to do it soon and it'll be called 14 minutes into my 15 minutes, a short biography of Tim, short memoir of Tim Ferriss before it's irrelevant. What are the core tenets of the Baha'i faith?

Starting point is 00:56:29 Because correct me if I'm wrong, but your parents or at least one of your parents were also Baha'i. Is that right? Yeah, I grew up Baha'i. So the tenets of the Baha'i faith are Baha'is believe that there is only one God and that this creator, all-loving, all-knowing creator, wants to educate humanity by sending down divine teachers every 500 or 1,000 years. These divine teachers, you know a lot of their names, like the Buddha, Krishna, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad. They come to various people at various points in time, kind of giving an updated lesson in spiritual evolution from God, the creator, because God wants us to mature spiritually, just like we're maturing technologically and materially. And we're not there yet. So Baha'is believe that a man named

Starting point is 00:57:20 Baha'u'llah, and that name means the glory of God, that Baha'u'llah was an actual person who was lived in Iran in the mid-1800s. He proclaimed himself to be the promised one of God, the newest, the latest of these divine teachers. He was in a Muslim country, so he was persecuted and locked up in prison and tortured and banished, and his family was killed, and tens of thousands of early Baha'is were martyred, and he spent his whole life being banished and in family was killed and tens of thousands of early Baha'is were martyred. And he spent his whole life being banished and in prison. And he wrote many hundreds of books and tablets that Baha'is believe are holy and that contain the solution for the world's problems today.

Starting point is 00:57:57 So Baha'is are hard at work at kind of healing the world spiritually. Theoretically, that's what we're doing. And do you have any type of or equivalent or approximation to, say, the Ten Commandments, for instance? Because I find that if you look at, say, the Ten Commandments, I mean, a lot of them seem like pretty good rules or good guidelines, even if you are, uh, atheist or, or otherwise. And, um, are there, is there a similar sort of to do and not to do list, uh, in the Baha'i faith? Yeah, there are basic core tenants of the Baha'i faith. So one is the, the harmony of the human

Starting point is 00:58:43 race. So elimination of racial prejudice is super important for Baha'is. We're all one members of one human family. No one is better or worse from their skin color. Um, all religions are one, um, the essential harmony of, I think you dig this one, the essential harmony of science and religion. You know, we live in a world where, uh, science and religion are so at odds and they can't see eye to eye and the secular science folks are like, oh, religion is bullshit. And the born again fundamentalist religion people are like, oh, scientists are full of shit.

Starting point is 00:59:15 And Baha'is believe that they're both manifestations of the creation of God, that science is there for us to understand the physical world that we're in. It's very real. Religion without science is mere superstition, according to Baha'u'llah. One of the important teachings of the Baha'i faith is the individual investigation of truth. So every person is on a journey to find the truth for themselves, and that's an important obligation for everyone to undertake, is finding the truth for themselves. The equality of men and women. So, this was taught by Baha'u'llah in the mid-1800s, that men and women are equal, and a universal education. And another teaching is the eventual universal language, that if we have a universal language that runs throughout the world,

Starting point is 01:00:12 that that will be, you talk about those building blocks to world peace. You know, a universal language that was spoken by everyone on the planet in addition to whatever their native language was, would be super helpful so that everyone could communicate with one another. It sounds kind of simplistic, but it actually would be super, super helpful. We seem to be heading that way kind of with English right now. It's kind of becoming a universal language. You go to Europe, you go to China, you go to Russia, like everyone speaks English as a second language. So those are some of the key teachings.

Starting point is 01:00:45 There's no clergy in the Baha'i faith, which I really like. There's no one above anyone in the Baha'i faith. No one has a station above anyone else. So that's a cool thing. And when you pray, what does praying look like? Do you have any favorite or common prayers? And the reason I ask is that, again, even for someone who is non-religious, I think there are things that can be very useful, even if they're just viewed as philosophies. For instance, the serenity prayer is very similar

Starting point is 01:01:20 to the meditations of a lot of Stoic philosophers. And I read a lot of Stoic philosophy and I find the serenity for a very helpful thing to, uh, memorize and, and consider on a regular occasion. Do you have any particular prayers that you have found helpful over the years or more or most recently? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:38 I, I love the serenity prayer. Um, it's, it's really, uh, it's really beautiful. I love, especially the second half of the serenity prayer, which doesn't get as much focus. You're essentially saying, God, grant me the courage to do the things I can. we live in a very self-will powered world. Like it's like pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and you are what you

Starting point is 01:02:07 make yourself. And it's interesting if you, if you believe that there is a creative force and all loving, all seeing creative force that runs throughout the universe, you know, that force can be tapped into, you know, you can turn to it and you can ask for help. You can ask for courage. You can ask for serenity. I think to me, the most important prayers and the ones that really help balance me out, like we talked earlier on in the conversation, are prayers of gratitude. And if I can be in

Starting point is 01:02:38 gratitude every day, if I can turn to the divine presence around me and just say, thank you for my health. Thank you for the beautiful sunlight. Thank you for enough food in my refrigerator. Thank you for keeping my son happy and healthy. It shifts my day, you know, and it shifts my whole perspective because I can easily get like, oh shit, how come I'm not a movie star? And how come I'm not getting the work I want to get? And, you know, how come my book's not number one bestseller? You know, it's easy to get into that negativity, but prayers of gratitude, I find really helpful. And, you know, coming back to getting out of your own head, I think that it ties into sort of compassion and empathy and looking at the world through a lens other than your own at the same time.

Starting point is 01:03:31 I mean, I find that as someone who's hardwired to be kind of type A, hard driving, achievement focused, focusing and driving hard on something is, is not the difficult part. It's stepping outside of that torrent of, of self-focused thought to exhibit gratitude and actual appreciation that is, is challenging. And that's the piece that requires more practice, uh, which is, yeah. So I'm going to come back, uh, we're going to wrap up in just a few minutes, but I have, I will come back to the documentary question. I've not forgotten, but in the meantime, uh, if you could have one billboard anywhere with anything on it, what would it say? Um, maybe it would be a billboard that says, don't be an asshole. Cause, uh, that would make the world a lot better place. Maybe someone driving along will be like, Oh, you know what? Maybe I'm just going to be not as much of an asshole today. I'm not going to cut people off and, uh, on the road and, uh,

Starting point is 01:04:39 ignore my kids and, uh, you know, backstab someone at work. How about that? Don't be an asshole. Is there any particular place you'd put that? Uh, anywhere in Los Angeles. What advice would you give to your 30 year old self? And if you could just place us in time or in, I guess in, in place and where were you? What were you doing at 30? And what advice would you give yourself? So at 30, I was a starving New York theater actor, just kind of going around trying to get acting work. And, you know, barely making 17 grand a year doing theater. I did a bunch of side jobs.

Starting point is 01:05:23 I was a man with a van. I had a moving company. I think that what I would talk to myself about is you have to believe in your capacity. You have to believe that your capacity is greater than you could probably imagine what it is. To me, this is a kind of a divine question. God has given us talents and faculties and it's up to us to discover them and expand them to their maximum and use them for maximum service in the world. So, uh, I had a lot more capacity at 30 than I thought. I thought of myself as like, well, you know, I could be, I could get some acting work and maybe I could do an

Starting point is 01:06:05 occasional guest spot on Law and Order and, uh, and make enough money to just get by as an actor. So I don't have to drive this damn moving van. That was like the extent of where my imagination was for myself. And so I would just say, you know, believe in yourself deeper. You're, you're bigger. You're bigger than that. Dream, dream bigger. I would say dream bigger. That's another, that could be your second billboard after don't be an asshole. You should have primed the pump with that. And then a mile later on sunset, you have dream bigger, just so their dreams aren't of being a bigger asshole. Yeah. Favorite documentaries or films. Oh man, there's so many dude.

Starting point is 01:06:49 I favorite documentaries. I've seen thousands of them. Just one that you love. Just one that you recommend. The act of killing. Did you see that? So good. And so brutal.

Starting point is 01:06:59 Oh my God. I mean, nothing goes to the heart of the human condition and the violence of, of, of human beings like that documentary. It's where it's set in Indonesia and they go to all of these men that killed thousands or tens of thousands of people in a rebellion in Indonesia and has them reenact how they killed people and make it into like an action movie. They actually try and make sections into an action movie just to see what happens as this kind of grand social experiment. And it really goes into the dark side,

Starting point is 01:07:32 the shadow side of the human condition in a way that is so, it's heart-stopping. And I really like dark stuff a lot. And I would say my favorite movie of all time is Apocalypse Now. And every time I've seen Apocalypse Now, I see the world a little bit differently. And again, I think you learn a lot about the positive side of the world by worst of humanity and in war. And in so doing, I always find it really inspiring. I come out of watching Apocalypse Now uplifted. I don't know. Maybe that's just me.

Starting point is 01:08:15 No, it's not just you. I had the most decorated special operations commander during the entire Iraq conflict, a Navy SEAL commander named Jocko Willink on the podcast. And he said effectively the exact same thing. So it's fascinating to see how it can span from military to entertainment. But when you're thinking about the human condition, I mean, you do need to consider the entire picture and not be like the blind men touching the elephant. What is an elephant? One's touching the trunk. One's touching the tail.

Starting point is 01:08:47 One's touching the foot. I mean, you really have to take in the macro picture if you want to have a positive impact and understand what you're trying to navigate. I think in some capacity, do you have any ask or request for my audience? This is effectively the last question. And then we'll get into where

Starting point is 01:09:05 people can find more about you and so on. But do you have any ask or request for the people listening? Well, you know, buy my book, buy my fucking book. Is that possible to say? No, that's, that's totally fair. We'll, we'll get a set. I'll ask for a second request or ask in the book, by the way, folks, I mean, the bassoon King's hilarious, a lot of laugh out loud moments. It's a, it's a very fast, it's an easy read and, uh, very, very honest. So if this is what, what your appetite, then you should check it out. And I'll link to that in the show notes as well for people. But, um, any other ask or request? Yeah. You know, I would, I would ask people, um, I would ask listeners, uh, I don't want to sound like pretentious asshole, but I would ask people

Starting point is 01:09:52 to dig deeper. Um, uh, we can make the world a better place. Um, we can ask more of ourselves. Um, we can do more for others. And I think that that the our life is a journey and and to dig deep on your journey uh and the world will benefit from it i love it and you said this already but the advice to your 30 year old self i think everybody could take it which is believing that you have more capacity than you might think and dreaming bigger. It's just that that's been so incredibly useful in my life. And I look back and I'm just like, wow, I cannot believe I was driving in first gear for so long. What the hell was I doing?

Starting point is 01:10:41 That's a great way of looking at it. Where can people find you online and where would you like them to go online also? Well, they can find me at Rainn Wilson on Twitter and Instagram. I'm on Facebook, of course, all that nonsense. They can check out Soul Pancakes, subscribe to our YouTube channel and check out leadayhady.org and check out the incredible work that is happening in the fields of girls' education, arts education, and what's also called informal education, where it's like education under a tree. That's the future. And if you want to help change the world, it's through education. I believe that gives, empowers people to make the change in their own communities. Um, so check that shit out.

Starting point is 01:11:32 A hundred percent. Yep. If you want to not only help break cycles of poverty, but create problem solvers instead of problem creators or passive participants in the world, then education is the force multiplier. Well, Rain, for those people who are going to try to find you on the social webs, Rain with two Ns, it's been so nice to chat with you. And thanks for taking the time. This has been a blast. You're great at this, and you need your own show.

Starting point is 01:12:02 But after I kick you in the face. Well, you know what this I've never, I haven't said this in a long time. Actually, I've never said this. Who am I kidding? That makes me sound like even weirder than I am, but I'm looking forward to hanging out and getting kicked in the face. And I may insist I get veto power on the footwear, but besides that, I think we're in good shape. I won't wear my high heels. Yeah, thanks for that. And Thanksgiving, as you said, being grateful should come not just once a year. And thank you for that reminder. You can find show notes, links to everything, all sorts of goodies that came from this conversation

Starting point is 01:12:45 at fourhourworkweek.com and click on podcast, all spelled out, or just go to fourhourworkweek.com forward slash podcast. And until next time, thank you for listening. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short.

Starting point is 01:13:43 It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it.

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The Tim Ferriss Show - #123: Rainn Wilson on Meditation, The Sexy Nostril Exercise, and Acting as Therapy

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Pet Camera - EBO Air 2

The Tim Ferriss Show - #123: Rainn Wilson on Meditation, The Sexy Nostril Exercise, and Acting as Therapy

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.