The Tim Ferriss Show - #127: Amelia Boone on Beating 99% of Men and Suffering for a High-Performance Life

Episode Date: December 22, 2015

Amelia Boone (@ameliaboone) has been called the Michael Jordan of obstacle course racing (OCR). This episode explores her training, nutrition, rehab, "pre-hab", and more. In a sense, Amelia is more impressive than MJ, as she conquered OCR while building a stellar full-time career in law. Since the sport’s inception, she’s amassed more than 30 victories and 50 podiums. In the 2012 World's Toughest Mudder competition, which lasted 24 hours, she finished 2nd OVERALL out of 1,000+ competitors. This was ahead of every male except the winner, who beat her by just 8 minutes. Her major victories include the Spartan Race World Championship (2013), Spartan Race Series Point Champion (2013 and 2015), and she is the only three-time winner of the World's Toughest Mudder (2012, 2014 and 2015). She won the 2014 WTM eight weeks after knee surgery. Amelia is also a three-time finisher of the Death Race, and dabbles in ultra-running in all of her spare time. Phew... I'm exhausted just writing this intro, but Amelia can do it all while eating Pop-Tarts for breakfast (seriously). Show notes and links for this episode can be found at www.fourhourworkweek.com/podcast. This podcast is brought to you by 99Designs, the world's largest marketplace of graphic designers. I have used them for years to create some amazing designs. When your business needs a logo, website design, business card, or anything you can imagine, check out 99Designs. I used them to rapid prototype the cover for The 4-Hour Body, and I've also had them help with display advertising and illustrations. If you want a more personalized approach, I recommend their 1-on-1 service. You get original designs from designers around the world. The best part? You provide your feedback, and then you end up with a product that you're happy with or your money back. Click this link and get a free $99 upgrade. Give it a test run. This podcast is also brought to you by Wealthfront. Wealthfront is a massively disruptive (in a good way) set-it-and-forget-it investing service, led by technologists from places like Apple and world-famous investors. It has exploded in popularity in the last 2 years and now has more than $2.5B under management. In fact, some of my good investor friends in Silicon Valley have millions of their own money in Wealthfront. Why? Because you can get services previously limited to the ultra-wealthy and only pay pennies on the dollar for them, and it’s all through smarter software instead of retail locations and bloated sales teams. Check out wealthfront.com/tim, take their risk assessment quiz, which only takes 2-5 minutes, and they’ll show you—for free–exactly the portfolio they’d put you in. If you want to just take their advice and do it yourself, you can. Or, as I would, you can set it and forget it. Well worth a few minutes: wealthfront.com/tim. Enjoy!***If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. I also love reading the reviews!For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast.Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Interested in sponsoring the podcast? Visit tim.blog/sponsor and fill out the form.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss YouTube: youtube.com/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Millie Boone has been called the Michael Jordan of obstacle course racing. Since the sport's inception, she's amassed, and she's laughing, more than 30 victories and 50 podiums. Her major victories include the Spartan Race World Championship 2003, Spartan Race Series Point Champion 2013 and 2015, and she's the only three-time winner of the World's Toughest Mudder 2012 2012, 14 and 15. She's also a three-time finisher of the death race and dabbles in ultra running in all of her, of her spare time, which I'm sure is massive, uh, and has a, a flourishing and high velocity career to boot. Amelia, welcome to the show. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate you taking the time.

And I thought we could start with a photo. So I was doing research for this and went to your website, which is Amelia Boone racing. Yes. Dot com. And can you describe the photo that takes up most of the real estate on that page. Well, so the website needs a bit of updating. I'm not a great website person. So if you know, if anybody wants to volunteer, be my guest. But it's a picture of me. I'm in the middle of barbed wire and I'm crawling on my hands and knees and I'm just kind of looking around semi-perplexed. And to me, that just kind of encapsulates everything that I do. I'm bleeding from my knees, my elbows, and just crawling through the mud, having a good time.

A microcosm of the face of obstacle course racing. Exactly. It's not pretty. And we met through Scott Keneally, who is putting together, maybe finished by the time people see this and available rise of the suffer fests so suffer fest you mentioned the blood you mentioned the dirt the barbed wire uh maybe we can explain to people who are unfamiliar what obstacle course racing is with the example of the world's toughest mutter. Can you describe what on earth that is? Well, so that's kind of like the extreme of obstacle course racing. But in general, I mean,

I think people have been familiar with Spartan races, with tough mutters. You see people jumping over fire and crawling under barbed wire. And it um, it's just, you know, you're running along and you have a wall to climb and you're, you know, jumping through mud and you're using everything that you have. Um, like it's just completely physical experience. Um, but so I got involved back in 2011, um, when I ran a Tough Mudder with friends and, um, then signed up for, there was this race that was announced called World's Toughest Mudder. And they're like, you for 24 hours are going to run as many laps of a course, a Tough Mudder course as you can. And it's going to be in December in New Jersey. And so I was like, it was balmy. I, Hmm, man, I can't think of anywhere I'd rather go than, uh,

New Jersey in December. Um, and, uh, so a bunch of us signed, I think a thousand people signed up for this, like, and nobody had any idea what they were getting into. You know, we'd all run like a Tough Mudder or run a Spartan race. Um, but nobody had ever really done it for 24 hours. Um, so we went out, um, that day and people were trying to figure out like, how do you stay warm for 24 hours when you're in and out of water? And, um, you know, and it's December and it's New Jersey. Um, so we decided that we would wear wetsuits or that wetsuits would be the way and to stay warm. And other people, former triathletes were like,

Oh, there's no way you can run for 24 hours in a wetsuit. You'll die. You know, like the, how your thermoregulation will be all off or whatever. Um, but we did.

And we, and like halfway through, so we all go out. Um, and it's like 30 degrees outside new jersey after the first lap there are about a thousand people that would start i'd say maybe 850 people dropped out after the first lap first lap like like done and this is what like an hour like a few hours into it probably probably like an hour and a half and um i remember going back in my tent and like just

shivering uncontrollably being like, what am I doing? Like what, what is going on here? You know? Um, you like would walk past like the, the med tents and there were just people in there like laying on cots. They were using like saline bags to like warm saline to put under people's arms, like, like armpits to keep them warm. And, um, so a few of us decided to keep that we were going to keep going. Um, and I think by, you know, the night descended on us, it was like 2am. We were like walking through the water, wading through water. And like, there was ice forming. We're like, you know, breaking holes in the ice. And I'm sitting here being like, what am I doing? Like, what am I doing? But at the same time, it's having so much

fun. Um, and out of a thousand people that started that race, 12 finished. And I was one of two women. Um, and, uh, so that was, that was the start of it all and i uh for some unknown reason i remember when i finished that race 24 hours later i was like never again never again and then like two weeks later i'm like sign me up what's what's next sign me up so and the the drive to do this type of thing there's so many different approaches I could take to try to dissect this, but are your parents very surprised, not surprised at all or somewhere in between? Um,

I would say somewhere in between because, so I've always been like the high achiever type a, you know, um, you know, I'm, I want to be at the top of my class. I want to be,

you know, like graduating summa cum laude and going to law school and everything like that. So I think that- I read that one of your law school classmates said that you would find a way to be competitive or to win in anything if it were folding laundry or otherwise. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like if I was like in law school, the extent of like my exercise was like getting on the elliptical, know like everybody else and i would like find a way to compete next on the person like on the elliptical next to me um and those are the days um but so i think the drive and the determination like that doesn't phase you know like my parents are like par for the course um but in terms of like how it manifested itself, cause I've always been kind of like a creature routine and like, I don't like surprises and I want to be able to like, like plan everything and know everything. And with obstacle course racing, it's so unknown when you go out there, like for the most part, um, when it first started, like they won't even show you

wouldn't see a course map. So you want to know what was out there. And so I think that part, they're kind of like, wow. Or like when I would sign up for the death race and they would be like 72 hours in the woods and you don't know what you're going to be doing, but have at it. And so that was very kind of like atypical personality for me. Uh, where did you grow up? I grew up, um, in Portland, Oregon and Portland. And what did your parents do growing up? So my dad was an insurance adjuster, and my mom was an environmental consultant.

Where did the competitive edge come from? I'm not... See, it's funny. They have no idea, and I think it's got's gotta be innate to be totally honest because my parents were always like, you can get C's that's fine. Or you can, you can play this sport or you don't have to play this sport or as long as

you're happy, you just do what makes you happy. And so there was, it sounds more Portland. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It was never,

it was never like, if you think of like sage parents, I was like the opposite of that. Um, so they were always telling me to like calm down and take a break. But instead I just, that worked well. Yeah.

Right. Do you have siblings? I do. I have an older sister, older sister. Yeah. Is she also competitively driven? Like yourself?

I mean, we're pretty much like in terms of personalities like opposites polar opposites polar opposites she's extremely successful but she came out about it from a very like you know way more laid back and you know like low-key approach what did you want to be when you were a kid what did you want to be when you grew up i wanted to be a lawyer when I grew up. Oh, and you nailed it. I nailed it. I was one of those people that I was like, if I set my mind to something, then I'm going to do it. So I would for lunch every day when I was like at home during the summer, my mom and I would always watch Perry Mason. And I was like, man, Perry Mason, being an attorney,

he gets the bad guy to confess every single episode. That's got to be cool. Perry Mason's great. I remember Perry Mason. So then I went to law school and I realized that's not actually what happens. So you were more a Perry Mason than a Matlock person. Yes, yes. I were more Perry Mason than a Matlock person. Yes. Yes.

It was a Perry Mason person. So the, so you decide you want to be a lawyer and did that change that waiver or did that stick with you all the way up until the point that you became a lawyer? I think it, it pretty much, you know, I kind of thought of different things in college. I really got,

um, I really fell in love with anthropology and, um, primates. And so like, you know, I really love studying, um, yeah, monkeys. And I thought for a part of me, I'm like, maybe I should go to Madagascar and hang out with the lemurs. Um, or I could go get a law degree. Um, so I, I double majored in anthropology and political science and then decided to take the safe route and, uh, go with the law degree. And that was you, Washington or Washington university, Washington university. That's right. And, uh, what did you do athletically in high school or college?

So growing up, I was kind of like a, I would say like a jack of all trades athlete in that I played, I was always on like a club team, like ASA softball or club soccer, um, you know, traveling basketball. And so I'd play year round. Um, and I was always good. I was on like the competitive, the highest level teams. I was never like a super standout all-star in any one single sport. Um, so, you know, I played year round and I would shuttle back and forth from practice to practice, um, throughout middle school and then high school. But I started like paring that down. And I actually, as high school progressed, I got more and more into musical theater and show choir and singing. And I kind of gave up sports and athletics. So

in college, I actually, I sang in an acapella group, but I know sports, no sports in college, no sports recreationally. Were you a runner? I would go out and run to like stay in shape, but running in St. Louis kind of sucked. So, I mean, I just like, it was either like hot and muggy or like freezing cold. So yeah, I didn't really, didn't really do anything. Let's, so I'm going to jump around a little bit like memento, but if we were to look at say the world's toughest mutter, what do your routines look like? You said you're a creature of habit as am I. The hours before the competition

let's just say like the day of what are your routines um so i always get up like super early before well i get up super early in general every morning what's super early so my alarm typically goes off or like right around 4 a.m um that's why you didn't flinch when I was, we were talking about Jocko Willink, the seal commander. I'm like, and he wakes up at four zero response. I'm like, Oh, another one. Here we are. Yeah. 4am. Um, and, uh, so actually on race days, it's almost like I sleep in a little bit. When do the races start typically? They generally will start.

World's Toughest Mudder is a little bit different. That one starts at 2 in the afternoon now. But just a regular obstacle course race will generally be like 7.30 is the starting time. So that starts at 2 p.m. So let's use that example. You wake up at 4. Oh, yeah. Then I drive myself crazy for the next however many hours twiddling my thumbs. What, uh, what other type of, uh, body prep, uh, or mental prep do you do?

Yeah, I generally use, um, the distraction technique. So I try to not think about really, cause I can sit there and make myself miserable over and over like, like picturing the race or whatever, but I find it helpful. Actually. Um, I actually do a lot of work in the mornings before races. Um, so I'll catch up on emails. Um, I'll do things from like my attorney life. Um, and, um, then in terms of like body prep, I, you know, I do a lot of like foam rolling, mobility, things like that. Um, the older I get, the more I realized, like, I can't just like jump out of bed in the morning and like, you know, be spry as a chicken.

So you're 32. Is that right? 32, 32, 32. I would imagine you still have a couple of good years left in you, but the mobility work that you do, what, what, what does that, what does that actually look like in detail? Um, so I generally carry like an arsenal of every single, like from a golf ball, a lacrosse ball, a softball, a foam roller. Um, and so I'm really focused on loosening up hips, loosening up hamstrings. Um, and every single different little torture device has, you know,

it's the golf ball is for the foot. Um, the lacrosse ball works well on the glutes, you know, the softball is great for the hamstrings. Um, so I'm just, you know, getting the muscles kind of warmed up and loosened and prepped. Um, and, um, I do, I actually, from a lot of various nagging injuries that I've always had, I have like little physical therapy routines that I always do to, you know, like to get your glutes activated and things like that. What type of movements do you do for glute activation? Oh, there's this fantastic exercise called Jane Fonda's.

Jane Fonda's. Are these for glute meat? Oh yeah, glute meat. Where you're sitting there and you're like, man, I should really have leg warmers on right now. So you're talking about, is this like the bent leg sort of the reverse thigh master? Pretty much, yeah.

It's the reverse thigh master. On your side. the reverse thigh master on your side yeah yeah and like variation like doing fire hydrants like that too you know like a dog lifting his legs there's all super sexy things people like like if you if you do them in a gym people are like oh god there's that girl well i tell you i think that you probably get more attention doing fire hydrants than I do, at least unless I'm in a gym in the Castro, which it might be a similar experience. And do you use any other modalities for prep? Do you use any stim? Do you use anything like that pre-race or is that set aside for other purposes? Pre-race, not so much.

No, that's more like recovery like recovery all like compression boots and um stem now our compression boots the compression socks are these actual boots the boots that inflate you know and like the air pressure chambers that um you know like kind of like flush out supposedly flush out lactic acid. So, um, that's, and that's post-race. That would be post-race. Yeah. So let's talk about post-race then. So in terms of facilitating recovery, so you finished the race and is it true that you have not slept for days on an after races or is that an exaggeration? No, it is true. So any long race that I've done,

like world's toughest motor is a 24 hour race. Um, I've done other races that are longer, 48 that are 60 hours. Um, and I feel like it's, I can't sleep afterwards and you feel like you should be able to, you're like, wow, I was just up for three days straight, um, running around in the woods, but my mind, your body is so physically exhausted, but my mind is still on so much like on overdrive that I just, I can't. So, I mean, for instance, this year, um, after world's toughest mutter, we all went, there was a group of us staying at a house, um, sat around, we're drinking beers, watching football game.

And I was like, man, I should like really be getting drunk right now or something like that. Because like I'm drinking and I've been running around in a wetsuit all night long. I'm like, I don't feel anything. Like I don't feel any effects of the booze or anything like that. I was like, it just must be this adrenaline still pumping through me. Um, did other people have the same, a similar experience or is that unique to you? I think no. Cause everyone else just kind of passed out and went to bed

so i was like hey guys let's say okay everyone's asleep right now cool and when in when you cross the finish line yeah uh as such you're done what type of type of recovery starts? What are the, what are the actions that you take in the hours following the race? So I think one of the most important things that people should do that they don't is you have to stay moving. People want to finish a race and especially a long one. Um, and just like lay on a couch or go to sleep. It is the worst thing you can do because you're going to wake up and like not be able to move anything. So I generally try and stay walking. I try and stay active. Um, you know, I will hop again on like a foam roller or something like that and try, you don't want to be too aggressive afterwards. Like you're not going to like hop on a softball and roll out

your glutes because like, that's going to hurt really bad. Um, but then just, just try and stay active. And that is in like the next day to, you know, like gentle movement and things like that. Um, do you use, do you, are you a proponent of ice, ice baths, anything like that or not? If I can't. So I mean, look, I'm not a scientist, whatever. I, all I know is what works for me. And, uh, people have different opinions. If I can get into an ice bath, I will, but it needs to be like immediately. So there have been races where there's like a lake right next to me. And I'm like, if it's cold enough, then I'll just go jump in the lake and kind of use that as an ice bath. But if you're waiting like four or five hours,

I don't really think it's going to end up helping you in the end. And, uh, I want you to correct me if I'm wrong. 2012 world's toughest mudder. How did you place? Uh, I won for females,

but I was second overall in 2012. Second place overall. Yeah. How did that feel? So it was a really interesting race. How many competitors? This was, again, there were about 1,200 people, I believe, is generally every year. So there were about 1,200 people.

They moved just in November, so it was supposedly a tiny bit warmer, but actually it wasn't. It was actually colder in 2012 than it was in 2011. And I guess I didn't realize I knew I was winning for women. And at this point we were about 24 hours or getting close to the end. And I was about 80 some odd miles in. And as on the last lap, they're like, okay, well you've won for women, but the guy that's winning is like nine minutes ahead of you. So we're on this last lap. Um, you know, going, we'll end up with 90 miles and there are all these people from Tough Mudder headquarters

and like all these matters just like yelling at me, willing me to go on because all they want me to do is to win overall, you know? And you're so tired at that point. And like, so kind of delirious that I guess it didn't even realize like the import of that situation of like how massive that would have been. Um, cause I was just like, leave me alone. I hurt. I'm tired. I'm freezing. Like I'm covered in like 10 like millimeters of neoprene. Like I'm just, you know, and I'm like, I get it. I'm trying to move fast and my body won't let me. Um, but yeah, so I ended up finishing about nine minutes behind the male overall winner. Um, and, uh, yeah, so it was pretty, I, it didn't really hit me until like a day or two later where i was like oh i was that close oh okay so did you not did you feel pride about finishing second overall

or were you just were you more disappointed that you didn't finish first overall no no i completely felt pride and it's actually it's one of these things now that when I race, um, it's almost, I kind of look at the standing. It's cool to win, you know, as a, as a female, you know, be like, Oh, I'm, I'm the female winner. But I'm more look of like, I have a consistent goal of trying to place like top 10 overall. You know, I want to be, I don't care sex, gender. Like I just want to be, I want to, you know, compete to the best, you know, overall.

So, and what, uh, the next female finisher, what place was she? She actually in 2012, she was third. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Good for her. What was her name? Deanna Blake. She's amazing. She, uh, she's amazing. She's absolutely amazing. And, um, and she's like 46 year old years old from Australia. 46. Yeah. Just crushes. What a beast.

Yeah. Okay. All my excuses just went out the window. Right. And she's like the nicest woman in the entire world too. So how does her strategy for training or in the race itself differ from younger, a younger competitor? I would say, I think probably, I think as you get older, you realize you, you don't go out as fast, you know, it's kind of like as you age, you're never going to like out sprint, you know, a 20

something year old. Um, but you tend to have more mental strength and more mental grit, the older you get. Um, just because you're like, whatever, this isn't a big deal. You know, like you're more mature and you can deal with, um, pain and suffering. Um, so I think that it's just kind of more like a slow and steady, you know, and, but just keep going one foot in front of the other. Um, but to that extent, that's kind of how I operate too, is that I'm never, I'm notoriously slow out of the gate. Um, you know, in, in the beginning of races, I'm always like struggling to catch up with everyone, which is why I like longer races. Um, so then, you know, but it's just kind of like, you know, picking them off one by one.

When, when you are actually before that, so suffering, let's talk about suffering. Yeah. Um, I was just reading a letter of Seneca's is that guy that's, that's the bust on the kitchen counter over there. Uh, related to, I think it's on fasting and celebration, something related to that,

but it talks about exposing yourself to suffering along the lines of the more, the more you sweat during peace, the less you bleed during war. and so I practice fasting among, for, for many reasons, among those being practicing hardship, right? So I can endure it in other areas of my life. Do you do that in other places in your life where you deliberately expose yourself to

different types of pain or suffering as a practice, or is it limited to the supper fest? I mean, with the amount that I race, there's plenty of suffering involved in that. It's sufficient. No. I guess I can't do the fasting thing. God, no, I'm not good with that. You're burning a lot more calories than I am. I'm like, if I don't eat every few hours, it's trouble for anyone around me.

But I always try to train in less than ideal conditions if I can because I think that that adds a lot to... It's super easy to go out for a run when it's 70 degrees and sunny. But when I was living in Chicago, which I did for the past six years, if there was a windstorm or a thunderstorm,

I'm like, let me out. Perfect time to run. Perfect time to go run. There was one time that they had shut down the lakefront path because the waves were coming over and I was like, fuck it, I'm running anyway. Apparently, police don't like that. I'd love to see. Please tell me the police tried to catch you on foot did they uh no well there was it was a bicycle cop who i was

actually surprised that he was like out in the weather as well um but uh yeah and he was like you can this is shut down i'm like i'm just training just training. No big deal. No big deal. Yeah. Did that, did that sway his position? No, not at all. Uh, so training in less than ideal conditions. Uh, when you look back at the races that you've run, the obstacle course races, what has been the most challenging obstacle for you and what has been the most dangerous? I would say in terms of challenging, I always tend to, so there's always,

I'm notoriously awful at throwing a spear. Um, and, uh, it's well-known communities that I can't throw a spear to save my life. Um, and so in Spartan races, there's always a spear throw and it's actually, it's cost me like tons of different races. Um, and it's funny because like, it's one of those things that if you practice you would probably be pretty good at it but like i'm like puzzled right now okay about throwing his fear no like like ace lawyer like world champion racer okay Okay. So continue. Not, not to interrupt.

I can't throw a spear. No, no, no. But it seems like the other thing you would sit down and study and master for you would think so. I actually think that, um,

playing softball my entire life kind of screwed me because I would like try and throw it like you throw a softball, which you can't do under the underhand spear. I'm just messing with you. She throws like a girl. No, no, no. But come on. The pitching is completely different, right?

It is completely different. I'm referring to the pitching, folks. Don't get all riled up. Correct. So that's always been... It's always been a challenge for me. And I finally figured it out. But it's one of those things that like...

It's such a silly thing to struggle with, I think. Um, but I guess that also could be the most dangerous. Cause if you miss a spear throw and somebody's around, no, um, I'm joking.

Uh, but there are some, in terms of danger for obstacles, like there are times where I'm sitting there being like, why hasn't somebody died in these? Well, I take that back. That's really bad.

Cause somebody did die. Um, but, um, but dangerous part. Yeah. Um, you know, when you're, when you're racing for 24 hours, especially like really long and you're like climbing super tall things, like in the middle of the night, I'm always sitting there being like, man, one misstep and I'm falling backwards and I'm, you know, and I've taken some big diggers off of walls just because you're so tired. You just big diggers, meaning awful falls, you know, so how, then these are walls that you're climbing over similar to a military obstacle course.

Yeah. How tall are they? Um, they vary. Um, you know, some are eight feet, some are 10 feet, some are 12 feet. Some have ropes to help you up them. You know, others, you know, there's big like kind of like ladders, um, you know, like military tack ladders, you know, that like climbing out, um,

climbing out of water. So there was one time I think it was in 2012, world's toughest mutteries. You climbed one of those out of a lake and it was like 20 feet up, but it was in the middle of the night and it was like frozen. Um, and so you're like, it's like iced over and you're like, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. Um, but yeah, so there's all these little dangers and people, you know, talk about the electricity involved in, in Tough Mudders, um, which is like a very disconcerting cause I've been hit so hard sometimes that

I've like blacked out from the electricity. Yeah. Can you describe this, this obstacle to folks? Yeah. So, well, so there's a couple of variations of it, but, um, basically there's these, uh, wires hanging. The worst variation was called electric eel and, um, you crawl through water. That's about like two, three inches deep and there's wires hanging down over your head. Um, and so you're, you're like army crawling through it and your head is hitting these wires and

there will occasionally will like shock you, back you. And is it 10,000 volts? I don't, I don't, or there's the difference between voltage and wattage. And I don't really understand what it is, but one will kill you and one won't. So this is supposedly the stuff that won't kill you. But if you get hit in just the right way and you're in water,

like I got hit so hard and like I, my face smacked down through the water and hit my head. And then I like blacked out. I started crawling the wrong way. And now it's one of those things that like, once you like do like that, like something like that happens to you, you just have like this insane fear of it, you know? And so it's the worst for me now, like trying to prep. You just have the trepidation. Yeah.

Beforehand. Yeah. The people who get injured or even the fatalities, what are, what are the most common causes? Honestly, I think the vast majority of injuries are things like rolled ankles, broken ankles, what you would expect, what you would expect. I mean, I don't think they've never, and you know, the one, the one unfortunate death that I think that we know know that have occurred or deaths that have occurred have been like you know heat stroke dehydration like the things that you

find that you find it ultra marathon exactly exactly it's not surprisingly for something that is fraught with electricity and spears and you know like climbing up super tall things and crawling barbed wire like nobody's like lost an eye i don't think from a barbed wire you know, like climbing up super tall things and crawling barbed wire. Like nobody's like lost an eye. I don't think from a barbed wire, you know, one of my buddies got zapped in the eye with one of those electric, one of those electric lines. He was not, he was not super happy about that. I mean, the worst,

the worst extent of my injuries are really like my body is just covered in barbed wire scars, like scratches. You can probably show you them, but you know, I look like I was attacked by a tiger. I was wondering what kind of cat you had everywhere. Rope burns, you know, I'm never going to be a leg model. 50 shades of tough mudder. Yeah. The surgery. I want to talk about your knee surgery yeah why did you get knee surgery

and uh let's start with that what was the what was the reason for the knee surgery so i um last summer heading into like world championship season um ended up tearing my meniscus and um that was in in training it was in training and running training. It was like, I was like running in Chicago and they're like potholes everywhere. And it was like one of those like free is one of those freak things where you'd like step in something and you're like, ah, ah, my leg. And, um, then I'm like running it off. I'm like, Oh wait, this actually isn't okay. Um, and, uh, so, you know, I went and I had an MRI. I thought I was like, okay, but they're like, my leg kept locking and I had to like physically

unlock it. And so I think with certain meniscus tears that happens. And so they just, they had to go in there and, you know, shave down the meniscus. And then there was some like tibial plateau fracture or whatever. So I just had to stay off it for a bit. So that happened. How much later did you compete? So I raced again eight weeks post-surgery.

And I remember asking my surgeon. This was the World's Toughest Mudder? Correct. 2014? Correct. Which you won i did so i remember asking my surgeon and i was like so how long till i'm back running he was like maybe like four weeks and i go so could i feasibly run a race like eight weeks later he's like yeah and i was like how long of a race and because he was thinking I was going to run a 5K. Do a 5K?

Yeah. I was like, well, it's like 24 hours. So I never got his blessing for it, but I did anyway. What did you do between the... What steps did you take to rehab it? What were the most important things that you did? I mean, I,

I think most importantly for me was, was getting into, I like got into physical therapy, like the next day, like I had the best physical therapist in Chicago and she was fantastic. She'd worked with me through other injuries and things like that. So we were pretty aggressive in rehabbing it. And then I just did whatever else I could to work around it,

stay in shape. You know, I think when people get injured, they forget that there's so much that they still can do. So, um, I had a gym that had a skier, um, which if you've ever seen as like a rower turned upside down and you pull it like you're cross country skiing. Um, so, you know, for two weeks, that was the only like really like thing I I could do to keep my heart rate up. So a hand bike ski erg. Hand bike ski erg.

I could row with one leg, but then that kind of throws. Then my other leg was just getting massive. But I rode a 10K or a ski erg to 10K, which is the worst kind of torture you can like do to yourself, you know? And just finding other ways to work around it. What other rehab modalities did you find most helpful personally? Did a lot of like STEM for, because I think when you go in and do- Electrical stimulation.

Electrical stimulation, yeah. Um, so when you go in and you like cut open your knee or whatever, it shuts down your quad. And so the main thing is getting your quad to then come back and function again. And so STEM is really helpful in, um, you know, like retraining that, um, to fire. So that was, you know, that was helpful. And really like, I'm a huge fan of like ART, Graston. So for those people not familiar, ART, active release technique, type of myofascial release,

which is super, depending on how you have it done, can be super unpleasant. If you're having like your psoas work done. Oh my God. I love that pain though. I think it's like, you like having some, yeah, like therapists with their like ridge hand knuckle deep into your psoas. I had just as a side note. All right. So I'm going to give a shout out to this guy, Jesse Burdick, who is a power lifter who trains with a friend of mine named Mark Bell. I mean, they do a lot of training separately, but I think he pulls, and Jesse, I apologize

if I get this wrong, but he can deadlift more than 700 pounds. He's a big unit. And we were getting ready to do, he also does manual therapy. So we're getting ready to do an ART session. And so he puts me on a table and kind of drapes like one leg off. And he goes, the safe word is brisket. And then just proceeds to annihilate my hips. So the basic idea, folks, for those of you who don't know ART, and please correct me if I get this wrong,

but if you have adhesions, let's just say with scar tissue between adjacent tissues, you apply pressure, manual pressure, a therapist applies pressure between those tissues, then has you perform motions like an overhead kind of reaching movement for the lats to break apart those adhesions. Uh, Graston, which is like having really thick butter knives scraped all over you. Right. Uh, I've read that you use something and I'm embarrassed. I actually don't know what this is. Dry needling. Oh yeah. What is that? Okay. So it's a, it sounds terrible. It's apparently illegal in California, which is why you probably don't know what it is. It's like acupuncture on crack.

So, and acupuncture is actually, rightfully probably hate it because I think they think it's kind of like a bastardization of what they do. But so when you go and you get acupuncture and the goal is like to not feel the needle, dry needling, you actually are sticking the needle in the muscle belly to try and get it to twitch. And the twitch is like the release. So, um, it's like, and you don't leave the needles in there. So you're

basically like poking at a muscle just sewing machine. Yeah. And the worst ever don't ever let anybody dry needle your calf, your gastroc, because like if you get in underneath, like right. And the worst ever, don't ever let anybody dry needle your calf, your gastroc, because like if you get in underneath, like right. And like the hamstring insertion, like you will feel like you got shot in the back of your legs. And it can also be kind of addictive because like you have somebody like poking around your glute med and you feel this twitch and it's almost like this, like release of the the muscle and what does it do for you um it is it's supposed to you know for super tight muscles the idea release spasms yeah huh so yeah i had the i had this this nutty experience uh and if people want to see photos of me in excruciating pain

getting art done by charles poliquin you can see that in the four-hour body. It's kind of hilarious. But I had a separate experience with something called, let's see, I guess it would be called, I want to say neuropuncture, but I might be getting that wrong. This was done with Dr. Lee Wolfer many years ago with shallow injections of prolo solutions. So,

yeah. And what happened though, and we improvised this point is she was working on my infraspinatus. So this is a rotator cuff muscle that I all that always gets sore for me. And I, I had reconstructive shoulder surgery and I probably sit like a, you know, like chest collapsed,

uh, the, you know, Gollum when I'm typing also, which is no good. But she was working on my infraspinatus, and she was doing the kind of sewing machine approach with these shallow injections. And we both hear, and it sounded like someone was scraping ice off a windshield. And it turned out that I had just this huge clump of calcium deposits at the back of both shoulders. And so,

so we ended up just, well, we, it's the Royal way. She ended up using the needle basically as a scraper to kind of break down these calcium deposits. And what was fascinating is no shoulder pin for months afterward, after chiseling these out,

wasn't the most pleasant thing in the world. Uh, so the dry needling, now that you're here in California, no more sad, sad times, no more gluten. I'm going to have to like,

yeah, go back to my black market dry needling. Yeah. You know, well sometimes, so I'll get acupuncture done and I'm going to be like, can you guys like, and like they'll accidentally, a muscle will trigger and release.

And I'm like, oh, that's fantastic. Do it again. But I'm one of those people, I'm like, I'll try anything once in terms of recovery. I'll just throw the, especially because for most professional athletes that they do, their job is to be a professional athlete and then to like rehab and recover and spend all that time. I'm like training early in the mornings. I go and I sit at a desk for 10 hours a day. And then I like try and like train and get in the evenings. Like it's not an ideal, like I'm not doing my body any favors for like, with what I'm putting it through. What does your nutrition look like? Were you serious earlier when I asked you about breakfast?

Yes. All right, what was your answer? We were doing a sound check, and I asked her what she had for breakfast. What was your answer? Pop-tarts. Pop-tarts. No, that's actually true. So pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, No, that's actually, so pop has become kind of this like running joke in the obstacle racing community with me because when I won the Spartan Race World Championships in 2013, I was so far ahead. I was like 20, 30 minutes ahead of the next woman and the race director yells out at me. He goes, Millie, what did you have for breakfast this morning? I'm like pop tarts and i actually did randomly that day because they're a really good source of easy easy

millie digestible carbs millie is it what is that what you said or did you say your full name sorry i heard sorry said amelia okay got it sometimes i can't say my own name um and uh so it kind of became this thing that like i would just like pre-race ritual that it would be a good luck thing to have a Pop-Tart. Because I'm a really big person into superstition. And it's kind of grown from there. And now I see, I was at a race the other weekend, and everyone around me was eating Pop-Tarts. And I'm like like what have i started like what and then everyone like posts these pictures on instagram of them eating pop

tarts and like they tag me in it and i'm like oh my god i've created a monster well this actually could be an incredible opportunity for you to do whatever you want because i remember watching pumping iron and arlszenegger is talking about the guys who'd come up to him and ask him for advice and he'd give them the wrong advices. And he would like tell them to go into the shower at the gym and like scream while they're posing. So you could,

you could actually, you could pull an incredible April fool's joke, but announce it a year later after everyone has already embraced it. I know. So now I'm like, okay, well what's the next thing? Like what's the,

you know, what other superstitions do you have? Um, not limited to racing necessarily. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh,

I'm one of those people that, so it's the same, like I will wear the same sports bra. Like, so we raised pretty much like sports bra and like compression shorts. Cause you want as little clothing to like hold down the mud as possible. So I'll wear the same, you know,

if I did well in a race, like I'll wear the same outfit for like the next race. Um, and especially the same headband. Um, and then if I don't do well, then that one gets discarded, you know?

And so it's, it's that kind of like your typical, um, sports stuff. Um, I actually, it's that kind of like your typical, um, sports stuff. Um, I actually have, this is kind of embarrassing, but a small little stuffed dog that travels with me to all races. And, um, because I'm typically by myself in really cheap, sketchy hotels, um, because these races are like in the middle of nowhere. Um, so it's like my little guard dog. How big is the stuffed dog? Oh, it's like fits in the middle of nowhere. Um, so it's like my little guard dog. How big is the stuffed dog?

Oh, it like fits in the palm of your hand. Where did you get that? It was given to me as a gift. As a protection, as a guard, a guardian, as a guard dog.

Um, so yeah, I mean, it's, it's just, it's, it's silly. Um,

it's silly stuff like that. Um, but yeah, outside of pop tarts. Yeah. What do I actually eat? Yeah. What is, It's just, it's silly. It's silly stuff like that. Outside of Pop-Tarts. Yeah. What do I actually eat? Yeah, what is your, let's just say, your four weeks out from a race.

Yeah. What does a day of food look like for you? Oh, that's hard to say. Honestly, it's one of those things I've struggled with that I've tried. I tried to do paleo. I tried to be like, maybe I can become a fat-adapted athlete because for longer races, I didn't want to have to rely on gels and foods and stuff like, and, and, um, I couldn't, couldn't stick with like, you know, um, the whole, like, you know, trying to, I couldn't go far enough into like the fat adaptation. Like it was just miserable. Um, I like ice cream way

too much. Um, it's somewhat chondroind for ketosis and cat adaption. Exactly. Much to my chagrin. At a certain point, I think I realized I'm like, you know, I'm, I'm performing well. Um, I'm winning races. So why change if it gets to the point where I'm not doing well, then, then I'll take another look at my diet and switch it. But at this point it's like, I run so much. I put in so much, you know,

time that I'm like, whatever. I enjoy food and I'll eat kind of whatever. What do you consume during a 24 hour race? Um, what is your, and this is actually a question from a fan, which was,

how does your gear that you bring with you differ in an obstacle course race versus an ultra marathon, for instance? Yeah. Aside from the wetsuit. is that my body doesn't, especially if you're running hard, my body isn't going to handle solid food as well as like the stomach, like stomach acid and stuff like that. So there's a lot of like liquid, like Tailwind is a good, you know, something that a lot of people use that it's really easy on your stomach. Tailwind, that's a good name. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so, but I also just find, you know, like simple, I actually really love like, um, like I like chewing on things like, like cliff makes these blocks. So, you know, like I do, I take in simple sugars that, that, um, like a 24 hour race? Um, I try and fuel every, like I try and fuel every, um, 30 minutes to an hour, get something in, but little bits. Um, and then I'm telling you sometimes though, the best things during like a long race are like, Oh God, I had a Krispy Kreme donut during world's toughest motor this past year. And it was like the most phenomenal thing I'd ever had. Salty things,

you know, like you want to make sure that you, your electrolytes are good, especially if you're running in a wetsuit because you're losing, I mean. You must be losing so much, such incredible amount of fluids. Yeah, I mean, so

pickle juice, mustard, things like that. Do you carry that with you? There are stations where you grab that. There are stations. There are. I'm just imagining like a camelback half full of pickle juice. Well, I actually do. I carry mustard packets with me.

Mustard packets. Small packets. Because vinegar, if you ever have issues with cramping, they say that the vinegar, the salt and stuff like that can pickle juice is well known to stop cramps in their tracks um pickle juice yeah i suppose that makes sense yeah i mean it's it's that's pickle juice is harder to carry with you unless you have like a little vial or something like that um but yeah so um I think that for the longer the race gets, you obviously need more gear and especially depending on like the cold and the, and the weather and what your

conditions are. Um, and so, you know, sometimes it's, it's pretty massive. The, uh, you're mentioning electrolytes. It's, it's fascinating when you look at sort of the record of health issues in endurance races. Most people assume that a lot of it would be related to dehydration, but oftentimes it's the complete opposite, where a lot of people, many people consume too much water, and they get, I guess, hyponatremia,

where you dilute sodium to the extent that in some cases your heart stops functioning. And I recall I was doing this kettlebell certification years ago, and it was just like thousands and thousands of swings and whatnot outside in Minnesota. And people were getting horrible cramps. And they're like, oh, we're not drinking enough water. We need to drink more water. I'm like, no, that's not the issue. You need some potassium tablets. But God, that can just be the worst if i mean do people i would imagine you there must be a fair number of competitors who just

have to drop out because they get like a quad or or hamstring cramps or is that cramps can be like super debilitating um and i think and especially like in really hot races and also in really cold races and stuff like the extremes. So, you know, it happens. It's the reason why the longer the races to get, you know, like the more unknown and things like that go into it. And so it can be, it's always kind of a crapshoot, you know, like you're like, come on body, please cooperate with me this one time. But sometimes you can't,

you can't predict it. So what, uh, what supplements do you use on a daily basis? Um, caffeine. No, I like coffee. Uh, so I am actually really, uh, have really kind of bought the hype and the science behind beats. Um, so I actually, I work with a company, um,

called beat elite, which is it's powdered beat, um, concentrated beat. Um, and so it's really that like, if you, I remember the first time I ever had beet juice,

which just tastes like death. Um, like dirt. I mean, I, I, some people like beet juice, but I,

I can't handle it. But like, you feel this weird, like head rush almost. And so I was mean, I, I, some people like beet juice, but I, I can't handle it. But like, you feel this weird, like head rush almost. And so I was like, well, there might be something to this shit. Um, so it's, uh, so I am really, it's something that I actually like drink every, like before workouts and stuff like that. And, you know, delivers the nitric oxide to help the breathing and everything like that. Um, so I think for endurance athletes, you don't need, I don't need the massive dose of caffeine before I go out, you know, and run because who wants to be jittery while like, you know,

running for several hours. You need more of like the, the, like the help with the breathing and keeping the heart rate low and stuff like that. And then I also take, you know, I try to stay away from like anti-inflammatories like Advil and stuff like that. Um, and then I also take, um, you know, I try to stay away from like anti-inflammatories like Advil and stuff like that just because, you know, it's, it's hard on the body, but big believer in like turmeric, um, and, uh, other things like that. Um,

and then anything to try and help with like bones and joints and, um, so you're just taking what, like glucosamine or MSM or what type of stuff? Yeah, but I try and get a natural, I'm like, uh, like bone broth and gelatin and things like that. Um,

you know, but it's bone broth is an expensive habit until I like bite the bullet and make my own. But then I have to like handle chicken feet and I'm not really into that. So you're in a good place for the, for the, for the bone broth. I'm in the Bay area.

I was like, what is it? The three stone hearth, I think in Berkeley and further down the peninsula, you have some really good sources as well. Right. Fortunately. Yeah.

Hippies love bone broth. Oh God. It's like the, it's the new thing. So yeah. And for anybody in New York, I'll just give a shout out to a new, I guess it's kind of a side gig started by a chef friend of mine, Marco Canora, who is in The 4-Hour Chef. Brodo, they serve hot bone broth in the winters in New York City.

B-R-O-D-O. It's amazing. And you can get turmeric or cumin. You get different flavored. Yeah, you can pay for the add-ons. What does your prehab routine look like so the exercises what exercises do you do to prevent injuries yeah so the main injuries that i've kind of dealt with have always been kind of revolving like hips um and uh uh you know glutes like most runners glutes that don't fire. Um, so like the irony. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh, so, uh, like Jane Fonda's are the, you know, the, the gold standard.

Um, but it is, it's a lot of, um, like kind of like stability work. Um, so I try and do a lot of single leg stuff. Um, what type of single leg stuff? Uh, so single leg squats, you know, you don't, you see like CrossFitters do like pistols all the way, like ass to grass. You don't need to do that kind of stuff. You know, it's just like small, little, like, you know, mini single leg squats. Um, I try into like, whenever I'm standing around, I'm trying to like, just stand like on one leg, like balancing and things like that. Um, I do a lot of like band, you know, like the, the physio band, like walks. So like monster walks where you're the X walks. Yeah. The X walks, that's that kind of stuff. Um, and then a lot of work, especially if it's a trail

runner, you really want to work like your, I'm going to say, what is your transverse abdominus or like the really deep core core corset muscle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so a lot of exercises that will like engage that, um, you know, like bird dogs, um, and, uh, things like that.

Just there. I mean, they're, they're, they're super like not fun and little tiny movements, but I think most people are, would rather go like, you know, squat 200 pounds and ignore those. And that's not going to help you. So you're working on glute med, you're doing sort of isolateral or single leg movements. Do you do step ups? Any work on boxes? I do. Um, I do too. I think,

I think, and like lunges, um, things like that. Uh, anything that's requiring you to, um, that is requiring, yeah,

that like unilateral movement too. So, um, and how much time would you say you spend on those types of prehab movements on a weekly basis? It's probably about 15 to 20 minutes a day. Okay. 15, 20 days.

And you do that pre workout. Is it a separate workout or after? It's generally like I'll do a few like activation, um, one, you know, like fire hydrants before. And then after it's generally afterwards that I'll kind of devote 15,

20 minutes, um, to kind of that, those like small little strengthening baby exercises. And how many miles on average do you run per week? You know, it's changed a lot. Um, I used to, a few years ago, I actually didn't really put in that much mileage. I was like, uh, you know, running too much is not good for you or whatever I did. I I've switched my training from to be more running intensive. Cause I realized that if you're going to run for 24 hours, you probably should run. Be good at running. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Cause I was just

joking. I'm like, I'm not a runner, but then I realized that I actually, I love running on trails and I love long, long runs. And so, um, now I'm probably putting in probably about 60, 70 miles a week, which actually is not that much for a lot of, you see a lot of runners who put in like a hundred mile weeks, but 60, 70 miles a week. Yeah. And how much time do you spend doing other types of training like weight training or otherwise? Yeah. Um, I do. So I used to, I, I, I do, um, I generally will like CrossFit three to four days a week. Um, so, you know, or some kind of bastardized version of my own. Um, if I'm not actually going to make it to a CrossFit gym, um, it's also cause I kind of pick and choose what I like to do from that. Uh,

so I mean, I guess it would be probably, I don't know, five to six other hours of other strength training, um, like interval training, things like that. What is your morning routine or routines look like first,

first 60 minutes of your day. So you wake up, punch the roosters, make them crow 4am. Uh, what happens? What is your, what is your day look like between say four and five 30?

Yeah. Um, I mean, I wish I could give you an answer. That's like, you know, I go out and I do sun salutations or like breathing exercises or whatever. Well, the sun's not even out at that hour. Um, but it's nothing really, it's nothing really that interesting. I mean, I wake up, um, uh, you know, all generally at that point, I'll actually

typically answer some work emails that since I go to bed pretty early, um, probably I try and get about by nine. So, um, sometimes I'll have work emails that'll come in like later than that. So I'll answer those. And then I'm just, you know, gathering everything up and heading out to, if I'm going to the gym that day or if I'm hitting up the trails that day. Um, so because I'll typically I'll train in the morning and then I'll get ready and go straight into work. What time do you get to work? Uh, about seven 30 or so.

Um, and so now if you eat and breakfast at this point or no, um, I will eat. So generally, so I'll wake up, just race days. Um, and this morning, cause it's the only thing in the trunk of my car as I was driving up here. Um, I have pop-up charts in the trunk of my car. Um, but, uh, no, I'll, so I'll generally wake up and, um, I actually typically eat a few spoonfuls of like nut butter to fuel before I go out for like, if I'm going to go run, you know, 10, 15 miles, um, it's a good source of, you know, fuel to keep me going. So you'll just have like a few tablespoons of almond butter or something like that? Pretty much. And, uh, and then, uh, yeah. And I found out that, you know, it sits well and then I'll eat breakfast after I train and then get to the office, things like that.

So what does a non-pop-tart breakfast look like? Generally, I'm a big fan of like omelets and eggs and things like that in the morning, mainly because I really like ketchup and I always put ketchup on it. It's just a vehicle for the ketchup. Pretty much. You sense a sugar theme going on here. Don't take diet advice from a million. I want to just take perhaps a few of these fan questions.

Yeah. And we've hit on a number of them already. I didn't know I had fans, but thank you. Yes, you did. Unless they're all coming from Scott. You have a lot of fans among my fans. So this is a question that I'd be interested to hear the answer to as well. This is from Cindy Palouian.

I'm probably masquering that. What does your self-talk during training and during the challenges sound like? The moment when you want to quit now, just to head this off at the pass, the answer may be that you don't feel like you want to quit. Uh, but during extremely hard races or challenging times, what is your self talk look like?

Cause I found like many athletes and maybe not you, but have sort of consistent routines in terms of their self-talk. So what's interesting, especially with long races is that you're always going to hit a low part. Like, and there's always going to be a part where you want to quit, you know, 24 hours at like,

and for me, it generally comes early. It's like four hours in and I'm like, God, I got to do this for 20 more hours. Um, you know, the sun setting and it's getting cold, the wind's picking up, there's a massive sandstorm, whatever. Um, for me, I think I generally, it's hard because people talk, ask me about self-talk and I generally just shut my brain off. And I feel like that that's what keeps,

I don't, um, don't really think about anything. Um, but I think when, has that always been the case? I think so. I think that you just will that into being, I think I just kind of go, I, I, well, I use different coping techniques. I sing to myself a lot when I'm out there. Um, please tell me you sing out loud. Sometimes, yes. Really? Yeah. If I have enough breath.

There will be a certain song for every race that will just replay through my head. 2012 World's Toughest Mudder was Macklemore's Thrift Shop. It was right before it hit big. No, like right before it like busted out. Like, and I swear to God, I sing that song over and over again. I can't listen to it the same way anymore. What, what other songs is, so those like your mantra was Macklemore. It was like your meditative mantra.

Pretty much 24 hours 24 hours that's dedication what other songs have you used oh god they range like all over the place um sometimes it's um sometimes it's just like all kind of like sing sometimes it'll be like so my favorite hymn ever is I was raised Catholic and whatever. And I love, you know, I've always loved church music. Um,

so there's a Christmas Kong, like low, how a rose air blooming. It's like an old hymn, not at all. What you would think would be like running through my head, like running a race. Sometimes it does,

you know? Um, and, uh, but then this other race, it was Kanye. It was like Kanye's monster was, or like the song was called monster, you know? So what do other racers do that as well that you're aware of? Or do, uh, do you, uh, do any other top racers have coping, uh, approaches that you think are interesting? You know, I think that a lot of people have like that self-talk, like I've always tried to, and I think this is pretty common is that like a lot of us will try and break up the

race into small segments. Cause if you look at the whole picture, it will get overwhelming. If you're like, I have a hundred miles to run and you're like crap, you know, but if you're like, no, I only have three miles or I'm just going to focus on getting through these

next 10 minutes. And so I've always found that a lot of people who do long endurance events will break it up into small manageable chunks, you know, and just focus on the next few minutes ahead of them. And I think that works pretty well. Do you, I mean, it sounds like you probably have some form of meditation when you run. Uh, and I think that in terms of just mindfulness, I'm sure it's a very present state of where to start with, but do you have a separate meditative practice of any time?

I don't, I've tried. I went to this like retreat thing that was fantastic. And I tried to do this meditation session and I just like 20 minutes in, I was like, I got to move and do something and get out of here. So for me, it's almost like the meditation is like, is,

is working really hard. Like, you know, like sprinting or running or lifting heavy weights. Like that's like my yoga practice, you know? Uh, now I don't know what this refers to, but since Will Hicks is asking, are you going to do the 24 hour battle frog in March? Does that mean anything to you? It does. Yes.

Uh, it's a, it's a race. It's another 24 hour, uh, obstacle race, you know, maybe, I don't know. My, my schedule next year is, is kind of up in the air. I really, I really want to kind of like venture and challenge like myself in new ways. And so I think I'm going to be doing a lot more like pure trail races too, which I haven't really had a chance, especially to out being out here in California. Um, you know, it's a much better, like I love climbing, running up mountains and stuff like that. So why did you decide to move to California? Um, a variety of reasons. I think the main was I

was from the West coast. I wouldn't get back here. Um, and then it was a time for a transition and a career for me. Um, you know, uh, I'd been at a law firm for six years and it was great and they were fantastic, but kind of wanted to try a new, like, you know, going in house and working, working for a company there. And, and then I actually, I'll be honest that totally the training and having mountains and hills around me. It was really hard. I am the happiest when I am out on a mountain running around somewhere.

And I couldn't do that in Chicago. Are you able to disclose the company that you're working for? Yes. It's this tiny little company. You may have heard of it. Um, maybe not. I don't know.

I work for Apple. Yeah. It's a good company. I have, I have a lot of, a lot of friends at the mothership. I just wanted to make sure they would allow you to at least. It's on like my LinkedIn and Facebook profile.

Okay. So that's, it's, it's public. Yeah. Uh, this is a very racing specific question. Stephen McKee, how do you keep your body limber after ice or water immersion during a race?

Keep moving? Just keep moving. I mean, because, yeah. Otherwise, if you slow down, that's when your body temperature goes down and then you're going to get hypothermic. So let's go to the third act, which is rapid fire questions. They don't have to be rapid fire answers, but the word successful, and you hear the word successful, who's the first person who comes to mind and why? God, that's so hard. Cause I, this is going to be your typical lawyer answer where I'm like, well, because successful can have so many different definitions.

No, no, that's fair, though. But just sort of reflexively. So this is going to be kind of a strange answer, probably. who have like transitioned their careers throughout their, who've had like, who've, I guess who've been flexible in their careers and who have transitioned. This answer is not coming out right. Okay, here we go.

I'm going to use an example. I do that all the time. Don't worry. I was trying to record like a 22nd intro for this little audio book yesterday and it probably took me 47 takes. Right. So the example. Yeah.

So I'm going to give you an example of a person who I find successful and then I'll explain why. Perfect. Triple H. Triple H. So I am a huge wrestling I'll explain why. Perfect. Um, triple H triple H. So I am a huge wrestling fan, huge professional wrestling fan. Um,

and, uh, the reason why I'm going to use it, I could use, I could use a number of people as this example, but the reason that I'm going to use this is because I find people who have had like one who, so he had a very successful wrestling career,

but then transitioned into the business aspect of it. You find so many people on it. This is interesting being in, I guess you could technically call me kind of a professional athlete. Um, you see a lot of people who I find are very kind of short-sighted in that, in that they're like, well, I, you know, I'm racing now and that, but they don't think about what happens when they can no longer do that. So people who have been able to have very successful athletic career and then transition to the business side of things or to think far ahead, you know? And so those are the people that I look to that I'm like, you know, they have, they have everything.

They have the athletic side of it, but then they also have the business acumen and are smart enough to know that their body isn't going to always be there for them. Oscar De La Hoya, a good example too, with the Golden Boy Productions. Right. Very savvy. I mean, if we want to keep going professional wrestling,

it's like The Rock. Things that have transitioned to being an actor. He's done all right. Triple H is a great example though uh paul levesque really smart guy i had him on the podcast uh listen to oh it just blew my mind really really really savvy guy right right uh okay so triple h i i agree i i also view him he out at, I think midnight every day with Joe DeFranco, like after his entire, he is very, okay.

So we're like the opposite. You guys have, right. You have the opposite schedules, but he's also a big fan of routine and which I know, and I've heard him talk about too. And, and that's how I get by.

And like, I don't care where I am in life. If I'm traveling, if I'm on the road for work, like I'm going to create a routine there and stick with it, you know? And so that's how I get by. And like, I don't care where I am in life. If I'm traveling, if I'm on the road for work, like I'm going to create a routine there and stick with it, you know? And so that's how I survive. What is something that you believe that other people think is insane

or any controversial beliefs that you have? Interesting. And if nothing jumps to mind, we can also come back to that. Right. Um, Hmm. Yeah. I may need to come back to that one. Okay. We'll come back to that. What book or books have you gifted most to other people? Um, I'm going to butcher this author's name because I always do. Um, house of leaves by Mark,

um, Mark Daniel, Daniel Lewski. Um, so in the reason that I say this and that I, um, and that I would give this is that so, so many people now read on like Kindles or technology or things like

that. This is a book that you have to hold because there are parts of it where you need to turn it upside down to read it. And I forget the style of what it's called, the style of writing. There's actual genre for it, but there are certain pages where you are reading it and it turns in a circle. So I think that reading a book and holding the physical book and turning the pages is such a lost art. And so this is a book that's an entire sensory experience. It's a fantastic story. It's brilliant.

It's kind of like a story within a story, but then it requires you as a reader to be like active and involved, you know? And I think that's just so cool because you don't see stuff like that anymore. And especially now when people read things on, you know, their iPads or their Kindles or whatever. And kind of like holding a book is something that we no longer do. House of Leaves. Very cool. Do you have any favorite documentaries or movies? My all-time favorite movie is The Goonies.

The Goonies. It's a quality film. It's not life-changing, but you know, it's a... Any favorite character from The Goonies? Data. Data. Data is great.

Pinterest Power. I mean, yeah. Growing up in Oregon, you just had to... That was my jam. We didn't have much to claim being from Oregon, but we could claim that movie. What is the purchase that is most for less than a hundred dollars purchase of less than a hundred dollars that is most positively impacted your life in

recent memory? This is really funny. so manuka honey bandages and uh so i get banged up a lot um racing yeah i've seen yeah there's some of the photos that you sent me so before we do these interviews you know i ask for a short bio some photos photos that might be usable. And I'm looking at one of them, you're climbing up this ramp and you're just covered in blood. So yes, you get banged up. So this past summer, I actually, there's this one obstacle called Tirolean Traverse.

What is it called? Tirolean Traverse. Tirolean. Yeah. So it's like? Tirolean Traverse. Tirolean. Yeah. So it's like you've seen the military guys, it's a rope thing. You either go under it, and it's just a rope traverse.

Yeah. But you can also go on top of it. It saves your grip. And I decided one day, one race to go on top of it, saving my grip, and I was wearing just a sports bra and massive rope burn

all down the front of my, and like the worst pain was like a second degree burn. And I discovered, um, that the only thing that would take away the sting where they use like honey bandages and there was only CVS was the only place that sold them. CVS has Manuka honey bandages. The only, or I could find them online too.

And, uh, I swear it was the only thing that got me through like the next few weeks in like no pain, but now I use them all the time for all of like my scrapes and it's, they're great, like antibacterial and blah, blah, blah. I mean, with the number that I bought, I'm sure it's over, I've spent way more than a hundred dollars on them, but the new Connie band is cool. Uh, now I usually ask about morning routines. We already covered quite a bit of that. What other routines or habits do you find important in your day or week?

Um, I, it's very easy for me to, or I think it's very easy for a lot of people to get disconnected from, you know, people around, especially now when our like social media type of world is that like you, you know, like something on Instagram or, you know, favorite something on Twitter or whatever, whatever the things are that you do. Um, so it's very important for me to like, I always set a time every single week and I call my parents like at the same time and I call my sister and, um, to try and make those, those, um, you know, personal connections

and stuff like that, because it can be so impersonal now with everything that we have, you know, technology that you can be like friends with people that you've never met in real life. So I always try like for me, that routine, like every Sunday at the same time, calling the parents, you know, just kind of like keeping me grounded, things like that. Do you have any wind down routine? What does the hour before bed look like? So I generally, um, can't wait to hear this. No, I was just like, I was just trying to think of like, if I actually had, cause generally I'll be, um, you know, watching Monday night raw, um, or some other professional wrestling.

I don't watch a lot of TV, but it's either sports or professional wrestling when I do. Um, you know, I, I am generally one of those people that's like so tired by the time it's time to go to bed. I don't really need a routine. You don't have any necessity. It's like, all right, it's time to go to bed. Done. Out cold.

Got it. If you could have a billboard anywhere, what would it say? Put anything on it. I think I would say, um, I think it would be something along the lines of, um, no one owes you anything. And I think that this has been something that lately, I feel like there's such a level of entitlement now in people that, oh, I deserve this, or I blah, blah, blah, this.

And at the end of the day, I'm like, it's hard work. The people that I find the most successful, the people that I think one thing that I've always prided myself on is that like, I've worked really goddamn hard for everything that, you know, that I've gotten or that I've done in my life. And you can't expect handouts from people, you know, the, at the end of the day, all that you can, that you can count on really is yourself. And so like, I don't expect people

to give me anything. So, and I really wish like, you know, so you see people now, like, I don't know the level of entitlement that people think that they deserve a handout or deserve help. Sometimes, sometimes I'm like, no, make it yourself, make your own opportunities, you know? Yeah. That's very pronounced here in Silicon Valley too. It's like, I know you just had a great idea when you went to the bathroom, but it's not worth $50 million yet. I'm sorry. Uh, so this, this is, this is not one of my normal rapid fire questions and I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of grief for this from my fans, but I have to ask because, uh, I, I know a lot of,

uh, very successful women, CEOs and so on. Uh, so 2012 second place overall. Uh, I mean, you could,

you could have potentially, I mean, it's well within the realm of possibility. You could have won the whole thing. Do you find it hard to date? Is it, I mean, is it,

I, because I'm imagining if i put myself in your shoes it must be and you're in you're extremely successful in your career is it hard for you to find someone you respect enough to date because i mean like the mental physical emotional toughness i don't spheres so i don't think that it's so much me. That's how it always starts. It's not me. It's him. No, I honestly, I, so I tend to be attracted to people that are almost like, I don't want to say the exact opposite than me because then that sounds like I'm attracted to people

who like aren't successful. But what I found is that I need somebody who's very complimentary to me in terms of very kind of... I admire people that are super laid back and go with the flow and very adaptable and just everything that I'm not. And so I think that for me, it's not so hard to find people like that. I think though, you know, sometimes you do get, you'll hear, you know, it takes a certain type of guy who can be secure with, with being with, you know, a woman who, you know, beats 99% of the dudes at

like good sport or whatever. Um, and that feels weird to say, cause that feels like I'm like being like, look at me. I'm such a fact. But, um, you know, it's, I think that it takes actually a guy who's very,

um, secure in his own right. You know, you can't, I can't like date somebody who's like, who's not, um, you know,

secure in who he is because then that would just be disastrous. Doesn't sound like it would get very far. What, what advice would you give your 25 year old self and place, place us 20 and 25. I'd be interested to get it for both ages. So where were you, what you you doing at 20 and then 25? So 20, I was finishing up college,

probably just getting ready to apply to law school, super, you know, like hardcore driven, going to be partner in a law firm one day, you know, like all those things. I think at that time I would tell myself to relax. Um, and, uh, you know, that you can't predict where life is going to take you. Um, and because now looking, I'm like, would I ever expect that? I'd be like the world's top obstacle racer. We didn't even know what the fuck obstacle,

it wasn't even around at that time. It wasn't even a thing, yeah. It wasn't even a thing. And so, and I think at 25, I was finishing up law school and I was starting my career as an attorney. So it would probably be similar, but I think what I would tell, I'm actually going to give you,

what I would tell my 28'm actually going to give you, I would, I would tell my 28 year old self, which is when I started all of this obstacle racing stuff. And I would tell myself it really doesn't matter at the end of the day. Okay. That sounds bad, but like, don't take it so seriously. Um, you know, and at the end of the racing itself, the racing itself, because when you reach, it started out as totally fun and then you reach a certain level of success and everyone, then it becomes this pressure and everything like that.

And I think that it's not all of the stress and the pressure and everything that I would put on myself from it. It's, it's not worth it. It doesn't change the outcome. I'm either, you know, ready or I'm not to like, you know, beat somebody. Um, so at the end of the day, kind of keep it all in perspective. And, um, like it's kind of hilarious. I'm running around in the mud, being shocked by electrical things, running around for 24 hours in a wetsuit. Just keep that in perspective. It's kind of ludicrous what I'm doing.

So have fun with it. Because there's so much time that I think that I've wasted not putting so much pressure on myself and not having fun. And now I've kind of like come full circle. I'm like, ah, it's just fun. You know,

who would you, who is someone or who are people you would like to meet someday? If anyone. God, I see that list is like massive, you know, who's, who's,

who's up at the top of the list. Uh, Ronda Rousey, uh, Ronda Rousey. Yeah. I like to meet strong. I have an entire list,

like strong females who are like the top of what they do. She's on my list too. Right. Um, but then I, that also extends to, you know, just other things that are like not athletically inclined,

you know? So you see like Sheryl Sandberg and like the, the females that have made names for themselves and, you know, as top executives and things like that. So I, I'm not like raw, raw girl power type of person,

but finding other women like that and seeing what makes them tick and seeing how they survive is always really interesting for me. What, if any, asks or requests do you have for the audience? And this is the last question. Ask or request? Yeah, Anything you'd like them to do or think about or consider or all of the above. Right. You know, I think, um, one of the things

that I've learned is like, and what I would tell people is like, be open to experiences, you know, and, um, especially with, they're probably like sitting, Oh, people, if they're sitting here listening to this, they're either already in obstacle course racing and are like, man, this shit's bananas. It's great. You know? So I don't need to convince them of anything or if they've happened upon this and they're like, we don't understand what this chick is doing actually. Um, like, I don't know, I would say go out there

and like, you know, try something new. Um, and you know, so if that's all, if you want to go out and run obstacle race, of course, like great. Um, but I wouldn't be where I am today without, you know, just like saying sure and trying something and, and seeing where that leads me. So I think that's always kind of important to keep in mind. So try something new. Yeah. That's good advice. Do something asking them to do something there. No, no, no. I think it's good. Good advice. I mean, do something just for the fuck of it. I think is kind of right. Coming back to your, don't take it so seriously. Like not everything has to figure into your five year plan.

And I think that's hard because for me it's like, I've always been that like super plan or five year person. So it's something that I actually have to remind myself is like, try something new, Amelia, like just do it. Why not do it? That was one of my, I'm not going to call it a resolution. So it wasn't a new year's resolution, but went, I've done did a lot of unusual experiments last year, uh,

we won't get into right now, but one of the, one of the realizations was be playful. Like you don't have to be so goddamn serious about things all the time. I mean, it's like do something that doesn't have an explicit point or an angle or whatever it might be. Well,

if somebody told me the other day that the only thing at the end of the day, the only thing we have is time. If you really cut through all the bullshit out there, and like, this is funny when you asked me about like, who do you think is successful? Like seriously, I think the most successful people who are out there are people that are happy, that are just like, they may not have it all. They may be dirt poor. They may not be educated. They may whatever.

But if they can art every day life, smiling and just generally happy, like when, if you break it all down, all we have is time. So why spend it being miserable? So like go do something that makes you happy and like, and have fun with it. Cause you're not taking it with you when you go. It's your, your,

your most valuable non-renewable resource. Exactly. As far as we know. You know, when the, my time finally comes and I realized that there's like a super cool world on the other side, I'm going to be like,

God damn it. Well, Amelia, thanks so much for taking the time and where, where can people say hello, find you on the interwebs and so on, uh, on my grossly needs updating website,

Amelia Boone racing.com. Um, but I actually am most active on, um, Twitter. Uh, it's just the handle is Amelia Boone. Boone with an E. What?

Boone with an E at the end. Amelia Boone, B-O-O-N-E. Correct. But be forewarned, I tweet a fair amount about the Seahawks and professional wrestling. So if you're not into that, you probably don't want to follow me. And then I'm on Instagram as well. wrestling. So if you're not into that, you probably don't want to follow me. Um, and, uh, then I'm on Instagram as well. It's a, a R Boone 11 because Amelia Boone was already taken by the time I joined that AR Boone 11. Correct. Um, and I'm on Facebook. Um, I don't have an athlete page

because I don't really like that or believe in that, but you can follow me, but I don't have an athlete page because I don't really like that or believe in that, but you can follow me, but I don't really become friends with people I haven't met before in life because that weirds me out. So Twitter, so Twitter and Instagram are your best friends. Cool. Well, this has been a blast.

Everybody listening. We will, uh, link to the books and so on the Manuka Honey Bandages and whatnot. Everything mentioned in the show notes. You can just go to 4hourworkweek.com, all spelled out, forward slash podcast. And that will have all episodes, including this one. And I'll create just a short link you can go to.

Or it's not a short link, but a URL. You can go to 4hourworkweek.com forward slash Amelia. And that will go straight to this episode. And Amelia, once again, thank you so much for taking the time. And I would say let's go for a run sometime, but I have some training to do before I'm prepared for that. And to everybody listening, as always, thank you so much for sticking around and we'll see you soon.

Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is five bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And five bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance.

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