The Tim Ferriss Show - #134: The Tao of Seneca

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Starting point is 00:01:22 my very own email newsletter. It's become one of the most popular email newsletters in the world with millions of subscribers. And it's super, super simple. It does not clog up your inbox. Every Friday, I send out five bullet points, super short of the coolest things I've found that week, which sometimes includes apps, books, documentaries, supplements, gadgets, new self experiments, hacks, tricks, and all sorts of weird stuff that I dig up from around the world. You guys, podcast listeners and book readers have asked me for something short and action packed for a very long time because after all the podcast, the books, they can be quite long. And that's why I created five bullet Friday. It's become

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Starting point is 00:02:40 limited, I share it first with Five Bullet Friday subscribers. So check it out, tim.blog forward slash Friday. If you listen to this podcast, it's very likely that you'd dig it a lot and you can, of course, easily subscribe any time. So easy peasy. Again, that's tim.blog forward slash Friday. And thanks for checking it out. If the spirit moves you. Hello, boys and girls. This is Tim Ferriss, and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. I am so excited for this episode. You have no idea, but I'll try to give you an idea. It's full of announcements, full of cool projects that I've been working on for a very long time. Announcement number one, The Tim Ferriss Experiment, which was an entire season of television, 13 episodes, that was exec produced, hosted by yours

Starting point is 00:03:27 truly alongside the Emmy award-winning team behind No Reservations, Mind of a Chef, etc. is now available in not only the U.S., but also pretty much every country in the world. There are a couple of exceptions, but check it out. There are all sorts of shenanigans, adventures, injuries, cataclysms, etc. 4hourworkweek.com forward slash TV. So just go to 4hourworkweek.com forward slash TV, all spelled out. And you can check that out. You can also see a trailer that shows you highlights of all 13 episodes. Next, we have the Tao of Seneca. What is the Tao of Seneca? Well, there's a collection of letters called the Moral Letters to Lucilius. And I have read this entire collection of letters and other letters of Seneca, the author, probably more than 100 times. It has been my constant companion for the last 10 to 20 years. And I have given various forms of

Starting point is 00:04:28 these letters to more friends than I can count and several hundred acquaintances. I feel that strongly about it. So when people ask me what my favorite book is of all time, I say this collection of letters. The problem has been there is no good audio edition. That was the objective. So I, for many months now, in collaboration with a fan, actually, a listener and a reader, John Robinson, have been collaborating to put together the Tao of Seneca, subtitle Practical Letters from a Stoic Master, three volumes, and it covers them all. Here's the description. The Tao of Seneca is an introduction

Starting point is 00:05:05 to Stoic philosophy through the words of Seneca. Thought leaders in Silicon Valley tout the benefits of Stoicism, and I'm not just referring to me there, not referring to me at all actually, many others, and NFL management coaches and players alike have embraced it because the principles make them better competitors. Stoicism is a no-nonsense philosophical system designed to produce dramatic real-world effects. Think of it as an ideal operating system for thriving in high-stress environments. This is your guide. And you can find this on Audible, audible.com forward slash Tim's Books. That'll take you to my book club where I acquire audio rights and produce books that have had a huge impact on my life.

Starting point is 00:05:45 This is at the top of the list. Tao Seneca, number one, most impactful collection of writing on my life, period. So please check it out, audible.com forward slash Tim's books. And there's a sample in this episode. That is what this episode consists of. Letter 13 specifically on groundless fears. It is a 12 minute letter. I think you'll enjoy it greatly. Give it a few minutes, get warmed up. Seneca sometimes has a bit of a preamble at the beginning of his letters. And I'll also give you the preface to the book that I put together, which will give you a lot more context. But on this letter specifically on groundless fears, give it a couple of minutes. And also for the women listening, this is 2000 years old and Seneca makes comments like manliness gains much strength from

Starting point is 00:06:32 dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, right? You can just substitute humans and it is as applicable to women as it is to men, certainly. And at the end of the preface, I list off some of my favorite letters so you can jump around and pick and choose. I encourage you to treat the Tao of Seneca as a buffet of letters you can choose from and revisit often. And if you do decide to get the volume one, for instance, volume two, volume three, I do have a very long version, an essay version of On the Shortness of Life to start off with. That is a long one. That is about an hour, hour and a half. You can skip over that if it's too long. That is where I'll leave things. I'm so excited to bring this to you and so excited for you if

Starting point is 00:07:16 you haven't heard Seneca before. You will hear the preface. You can skip through that if you want, which I read. And then letter 13 on groundless fears. Check it out. The Tao of Seneca audible.com forward slash Tim's books. Enjoy. This is Tim Ferriss speaking, the producer of this audio book. I'm an author, perhaps best known for books with titles that sound like infomercial products, the four hour work week Workweek and the 4-Hour Body, which are published in about 45 languages or so. And I am a tech investor, and I've been involved early stage in companies like Facebook, Twitter, Uber, Alibaba, and perhaps 30 others. I only bring up this background because I credit my successes, whatever they might be in many fields, including those, tango, etc., to Stoicism and to

Starting point is 00:08:07 reading the writing of specifically Seneca. And that is why I have put so much time into assembling and compiling this book and with the help of John bringing it to you. That is the narrator, John Robinson. Few of us consider ourselves philosophers, of course, and this is usually for very good reasons. Most of us can recall at least one very irritating pseudo-intellectual, probably in college, who dedicated countless hours to some type of philosophical tail-chasing. And so we associate philosophy with this type of behavior.

Starting point is 00:08:42 For what? Well, maybe this person was debating what is is, but somehow posturing as a superior intellect at mealtime or over drinks, it's very irritating. It's very useless and not unlike the bar scene in Good Will Hunting, perhaps. But it is for academics. And I think it is for theory. These are beliefs that many of us have about philosophy. It's something that you do over wine for fun, but it doesn't apply to real life. Fortunately, there are a few no-nonsense philosophical systems that can produce dramatic real-world effects and results. These were forged and refined in action, sometimes war.

Starting point is 00:09:20 Stoicism is, to me, perhaps one of the best examples of that, and that's what we'll focus on. Think of it as an ideal operating system for thriving in high-stress environments, and that is certainly why it's gained a huge foothold in Silicon Valley, as one example, and professional sports. So if you study Stoicism, you'll be in very good company. It's a rulebook for making better decisions. It was popular with the educated elite of the Greco-Roman Empire, but Thomas Jefferson also had Seneca on his bedside table. Montaigne had a quote from Epictetus carved into the ceiling of his house

Starting point is 00:09:56 where he would see it constantly. Bill Clinton reads meditations by Marcus Aurelius every year. In the NFL, and this has become big news with an article in Sports Illustrated, management, coaches, and players alike, including teams like the Patriots and Seahawks, have embraced stoicism because it makes them better competitors. Other proponents include John Stuart Mill and Tom Wolfe. As I record this, you might hear that my voice is a little hoarse. I just finished a 10-day water-only fast. And I don't necessarily recommend doing that, but it's part of a practice that comes directly from the writing of Seneca.

Starting point is 00:10:33 Specifically, letter 18, which you'll hear on festivals and fasting. And here is an excerpt to give you a flavor. Set aside a certain number of days during which you shall be content with the scantiest and cheapest affair with coarse and rough dress saying to yourself all the while, is this the condition I so feared? It is precisely in times of immunity from care that the soul should toughen itself beforehand for occasions of greater stress. And it is while fortune is kind that it should fortify itself against her violence. And it goes on and on. But that particular passage, and there's a lot more context to it, led me to the practice of taking a few days per month to eat the cheapest of food. So for instance, rice and beans, every meal, rice and beans costs one to $2 a day. If you break it

Starting point is 00:11:23 down, wearing the same clothing, say the same white t-shirt and pair of jeans, remaining unshaven, asking myself all the while, is this the condition I so feared? What does that mean? It means that you are inoculating yourself against unfounded fears. Because when I find myself defensive, fearful of losing whatever success or money or prestige or status I might have, whatever that is, or it could be any number of other types of fears, they're usually nebulous. You worry that your quality of life will drop. You'll be very unhappy.

Starting point is 00:11:58 But if you rehearse that condition, the worst case scenario, you realize that it's not that bad. And that is tremendously empowering. It allows you to make better investment decisions. It allows you to take the steps to start your own company, quit your job, start a relationship, end a relationship because you are rehearsing the worst case scenarios instead of letting them bounce around in your skull in a very unformed nebulous way. So that is one of dozens of examples that I could give you. The principles are timeless and incredibly practical.

Starting point is 00:12:32 And I particularly like Seneca. I love Marcus Aurelius. I love Epictetus. But I particularly love Seneca because it's easy to read, it's pithy, and the practices can be applied directly to your life now. If you were to take some of these letters and replace the names Lucilius and other Roman sounding names with John, Mary, Edward, they would read like letters from one of your contemporary friends to another. Hey John, so sorry to hear that you're dealing with that frivolous lawsuit. Let me tell you how I handled this and how I deal with backstabbing in the Senate and give you a few tips. Hey Mary,

Starting point is 00:13:11 I'm so sorry to hear that your friend's mother passed away. Here's how you might console her, et cetera, et cetera. They are extremely memorable. And that is because Seneca was one of the most famous playwrights of his day. And that leads to another point. His principles, his philosophies were used on the front lines. He was one of the wealthiest people in Rome, as in effect an investment banker, I suppose you could think of him as such. He was also an advisor to the emperor. That didn't always work out all too well for him, but that's part of stoicism. The point being that he was world-class in several fields. He had to deal with uncooperative,

Starting point is 00:13:52 powerful, in many cases, human beings all the time, and he was able to do well. And I think that's what separates the philosophers, so to speak, who actually can put rubber to the road and make things happen. And philosophologists, as many other people have said, those people who speculate, the armchair quarterbacks. Seneca was not one of these people. He was getting his hands dirty and doing big things. And the way that I suggest you approach this, and this is certainly the way I have approached it and many people have, is making Seneca part of your daily practice. And the way that you do that is set aside 10 to 15 minutes a day. For me, it is often walking to get my morning cup of coffee and I will listen to one letter a day. And this is highly therapeutic. It is highly effective as a habit if you want to be more successful in any area, personal or professional.

Starting point is 00:14:47 Stoic principles are often practiced in rehabilitation clinics, for instance, with alcoholics. They don't succumb to impulses. In the most practical sense, I suppose, it does share a lot in common with cognitive behavioral therapy. In a sense, you could think of it as putting the first portion of the serenity prayer into action, which reads, there are many translations, of course, as God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Stoicism is the training ground for putting this into action. So you have to digest it just like good nutrition, a little bit every day, put in the time. One letter, five to 15 minutes.

Starting point is 00:15:26 It might've been porn on the porch of Zeno, but it can be used everywhere in the concrete jungle. And I'll recommend a few letters to start with. If you want to bounce around, I suggest you listen to all of them. They will apply to you in your life at different points. Three of my favorites are 13, 18, and 27. So letter 13 on groundless fears, letter 18 on festivals and fasting, letter 27 on the good which abides, which is also hilarious. John Robinson, his favorites do not overlap. They will be very personal. But if you want a few recommendations to start with, start at the beginning of this

Starting point is 00:16:05 audiobook, volume one, because it features On the Shortness of Life, which I read and listen to at least once a quarter, usually once a month, and then letters 13, 18, and 27. And I have to, before I part, give a heartfelt thanks to John Robinson. John Robinson, I found on the internet, I was searching for an audio book of Seneca's letters and essays, and I couldn't find it. And then one day, John Robinson's website pops up. It turns out he's a fan of mine, and the 4-Hour Workweek heard me talking about Seneca in many different interviews, tried to find an audio book, also couldn't, decided to make it himself and put together, I think it was 10 to 30 draft essays. I downloaded them when I

Starting point is 00:16:52 was in Costa Rica and needed some recalibration. I needed to address some unfounded fears of my own and I was blown away. Whatever voice I had in my head for Seneca, it was John. It was perfect. And I reached out to him. We started to collaborate. We put this entire thing together and he has just been a superstar. So thank you very much, John. And thank you to all of you for listening. I'm so excited and envious of you in a way, if you've never heard or been exposed to Seneca before. And as he would say, take care. Letter 13 on On Groundless Fears. I know that you have plenty of spirit, for even before you began to equip yourself with maxims which were wholesome and potent to overcome obstacles, you were taking pride in your contest with fortune.

Starting point is 00:17:46 And this is all the more true now that you have grappled with fortune and tested your powers. For our powers can never inspire in us implicit faith in ourselves, except when many difficulties have confronted us on this side and on that, and have occasionally even come to close quarters with us. It is only in this way that the true spirit can be tested, the spirit that will never consent to come under the jurisdiction of things external to ourselves. This is the touchstone of such a spirit. No prize-fighter can go with high spirits into the strife if he has never been beaten black and blue. The only contestant who can confidently enter the lists is the man who has seen his own blood, who has felt his teeth rattled beneath his opponent's fist, who has been

Starting point is 00:18:40 tripped and felt the full force of his adversary's charge, who has been downed in body but not in spirit, one who, as often as he falls, rises again with greater defiance than ever. So then, to keep up my figure, fortune has often in the past got the upper hand of you, and yet you have not surrendered, but have leaped up and stood your ground still more eagerly, for manliness gains much strength by being challenged. Nevertheless, if you approve, allow me to offer some additional safeguards by which you may fortify yourself. There are more things, Lucilius, likely to frighten us than there are to crush us. We suffer more often in imagination than in reality. I am not speaking with you in the

Starting point is 00:19:36 stoic strain, but in my milder style. For it is our stoic fashion to speak of all those things which provoke cries and groans as unimportant and beneath notice. But you and I must drop such great sounding words, although heaven knows they are true enough. What I advise you to do is not to be unhappy before the crisis comes, since it may be that the dangers before which you paled, as if they were threatening you, will never come upon you. They certainly have not yet come. Accordingly, some things torment us more than they ought, some torment us before they ought, and some torment us when they ought not to torment us at all. We are in the habit of exaggerating, or imagining, or anticipating sorrow.

Starting point is 00:20:36 The first of these three faults may be postponed for the present, because the subject is under discussion and the case is still in court, so to speak. That which I should call trifling you will maintain to be most serious, for of course I know that some men laugh while being flogged, and that others wince at a box on the ear. We shall consider later whether these evils derive their power from their own strength or from our own weakness. Do me the favor, when men surround you and try to talk you into believing that you are unhappy, to consider not what you hear, but what you yourself feel, and to take counsel with your feelings and question yourself independently, because you know your own affairs better than anyone else does. Ask, is there any reason why these persons should condole with me?

Starting point is 00:21:27 Why should they be worried or even fear some infection from me, as if troubles could be transmitted? Is there any evil involved, or is it a matter merely of ill report, rather than an evil? Put the question voluntarily to yourself. Am I tormented without sufficient reason? Am I morose, and do I convert what is not an evil into what is an evil? You may retort with the question, how am I to know whether my sufferings are real or imaginary? Here is the rule for such matters. We are tormented either by things present, or by things to come, or by both. As to things present, the decision is easy. Suppose that your person enjoys freedom and health, and that you do not suffer from any external injury. As to what may happen to it in the future, we shall see later on. Today,

Starting point is 00:22:26 there is nothing wrong with it. But, you say, something will happen to it. First of all, consider whether your proofs of future trouble are sure. For it is more often the case that we are troubled by our apprehensions and that we are mocked by that mocker rumor, which is wont to settle wars, but much more often settles individuals. Yes, my dear Lucilius, we agree too quickly with what people say. We do not put to the test those things which cause our fear. We do not examine into them. We blench and retreat, just like soldiers who are forced to abandon their camp because of a dust cloud raised by stampeding cattle, or are thrown into a panic by the spreading of some unauthenticated rumor.

Starting point is 00:23:17 And somehow or other it is the idle report that disturbs us most. For truth has its own definite boundaries, but that which arises from uncertainty is delivered over to guesswork in the irresponsible license of a frightened mind. That is why no fear is so ruinous and so uncontrollable as panic fear. For other fears are groundless, but this fear is witless. Let us then look carefully into the matter. It is likely that some troubles will befall us, but it is not a present fact. How often has the unexpected happened? How often has the expected never come to pass? And even though it is ordained to be, what does it avail to run out to meet your suffering? You will suffer soon enough when it arrives, so look forward meanwhile to better things. What shall you gain by doing this? Time. There will be many happenings meanwhile which will serve to postpone, or end, or pass on to another person the trials which are near or even in your

Starting point is 00:24:34 very presence. A fire has opened the way to flight. Men have been let down softly by a catastrophe. Sometimes the sword has been checked even at the victim's throat. Men have survived their own executioners. Even bad fortune is fickle. Perhaps it will come, perhaps not. In the meantime, it is not. So look forward to better things. The mind at times fashions for itself false shapes of evil when there are no signs that point to any evil. It twists into the worst construction some word of doubtful meaning,

Starting point is 00:25:15 or it fancies some personal grudge to be more serious than it really is, considering not how angry the enemy is, but to what lengths he may go, if he is angry. But life is not worth living, and there is no limit to our sorrows, if we indulge our fears to the greatest possible extent. In this matter, let prudence help you, and contemn with a resolute spirit, even when it is in plain sight. If you cannot do this,

Starting point is 00:25:49 counter one weakness with another, and temper your fear with hope. There is nothing so certain among these objects of fear that it is not more certain still that things we dread sink into nothing and that things we hope for mock us. Accordingly, weigh carefully your hopes as well as your fears, and whenever all the elements are in doubt, decide in your own favor. Believe what you prefer. And if fear wins a majority of the votes, incline in the other direction anyhow, and cease to harass your soul, reflecting continually that most mortals, even when no troubles are actually at hand, or are certainly to be expected in the future, become excited and disquieted. No one calls a halt on himself when he begins to be urged ahead, nor does he regulate his alarm according

Starting point is 00:26:45 to the truth. No one says, the author of the story is a fool, and he who has believed it is a fool, as well as he who fabricated it. We let ourselves drift with every breeze. We are frightened at uncertainties, just as if they were certain. We observe no moderation. The slightest thing turns the scales and throws us forthwith into a panic. But I am ashamed either to admonish you sternly or to try to beguile you with such mild remedies. Let another say. Perhaps the worst will not happen. You yourself must say, Well, what if it does happen? Let us see who wins. Perhaps it happens for my best interests. It may be that such a death will shed credit upon my life.

Starting point is 00:27:42 Socrates was ennobled by the hemlock draught. Wrench from Cato's hand his sword, the vindicator of liberty, and you deprive him of the greatest share of his glory. I am exhorting you far too long, since you need reminding rather than exhortation. The path on which I am leading you is not different from that on which your nature leads you you were born to such conduct as I describe hence there is all the more reason why you should increase and beautify

Starting point is 00:28:13 the good that is in you but now to close my letter I have only to stamp the usual seal upon it in other words to commit thereto some noble message to be delivered to you the usual seal upon it, in other words, to commit thereto some noble message to be delivered to you. The fool, with all his other faults, has this also. He is always getting ready

Starting point is 00:28:35 to live. Reflect, my esteemed Lucilius, what this saying means, and you will see how revolting is the fickleness of men who lay down every day new foundations of life and begin to build up fresh hopes even at the brink of the grave. Look within your own mind for individual instances. You will think of old men who are preparing themselves at that very hour for a political career, or for travel, or for business? And what is baser than getting ready to live when you are already old? I should not name the author of this motto, except that it is somewhat unknown to fame, and it is not one of those popular sayings of Epicurus which I have allowed myself to praise and to appropriate. Farewell. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one,

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The Tim Ferriss Show - #134: The Tao of Seneca

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