The Tim Ferriss Show - #154: The Habits of a Master -- Paulo Coelho, Author of The Alchemist

Episode Date: April 23, 2016

"A successful writing day is the day that I suffer in the morning, and I have fun in the evening." -Paulo Coelho Paulo Coelho (@paulocoelho) has long been one of my writing inspirations. His books, of near universal appeal, spans from The Alchemist to the most recent Adultery and has been translated into more than 70 languages. Few people know that The Alchemist, which has sold more than 65 million copies worldwide, was originally published by a small Brazilian publisher to the tune of... 900 copies. They declined to reprint it. It wasn't until after his subsequent novel (Brida) that The Alchemist was revived and took off. I, for one, have always been impressed with consistent writers. Paulo, who averages one book every two years, is staggeringly consistent. As I type this, I am under the pressure of deadlines and often feel as Kurt Vonnegut did: "When I write, I feel like an armless, legless man with a crayon in his mouth." My output is erratic at best, and I wondered: how does Paulo write? What is his process? How does he think about it? I reached out to him, and he was kind enough to reply with the audio I've included in the podcast. In it, he provides some gems and answers. Enjoy! Show notes and links for this episode can be found at www.fourhourworkweek.com/podcast. This podcast is brought to you by MeUndies. Have you ever wanted to be as powerful as a mullet-wearing ninja from the 1980’s, or as sleek as a black panther in the Amazon? Of course you have, and that’s where MeUndies comes in. I’ve spent the last 2-3 weeks wearing underwear from these guys 24/7, and they are the most comfortable and colorful underwear I’ve ever owned. Their materials are 2x softer than cotton, as evaluated using the Kawabata method. Check out MeUndies.com/Tim to see my current faves (some are awesomely ridiculous) and, while you’re at it, don’t miss lots of hot ladies wearing MeUndies. This podcast is also brought to you by Wealthfront. Wealthfront is a massively disruptive (in a good way) set-it-and-forget-it investing service, led by technologists from places like Apple. It has exploded in popularity in the last two years and now has more than $2.5B under management. Why? Because you can get services previously limited to the ultra-wealthy and only pay pennies on the dollar for them, and it’s all through smarter software instead of retail locations and bloated sales teams. Check out wealthfront.com/tim, take their risk assessment quiz, which only takes 2-5 minutes, and they’ll show you—for free–exactly the portfolio they’d put you in. If you want to just take their advice and do it yourself, you can. Well worth a few minutes to explore: wealthfront.com/tim.***If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. I also love reading the reviews!For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast.Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Interested in sponsoring the podcast? Visit tim.blog/sponsor and fill out the form.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss YouTube: youtube.com/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

optimal minimal at this altitude i can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking can i ask you a personal question now what is even appropriate i'm a cybernetic organism living tissue i will never enter skeleton this episode is brought to you by ag1, the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole body health. I do get asked a lot what I would take if I could only take one supplement, and the true answer is invariably AG1. It simply covers a ton of bases. I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me on the road. So what is AG1? AG1 is a science-driven

formulation of vitamins, probiotics, and whole food sourced nutrients. In a single scoop, AG1 gives you support for the brain, gut, and immune system. So take ownership of your health and try AG1 today. You will get a free one-year supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs with your first subscription purchase. So learn more, check it out. Go to drinkag1.com slash Tim. That's drinkag1, the number one, drinkag1.com slash Tim. Last time, drinkag1.com slash Tim. Check it out. This episode is brought to you by Five Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. It's become one of the most popular email newsletters in the world with millions of subscribers. And it's super, super simple. It does not clog up your inbox. Every Friday,

I send out five bullet points, super short, of the coolest things I've found that week, which sometimes includes apps, books, documentaries, supplements, gadgets, new self-experiments, hacks, tricks, and all sorts of weird stuff that I dig up from around the world. You guys, podcast listeners and book readers, have asked me for something short and action-packed for a very long time. Because after all, the podcast, the books, they can be quite long. And that's why I created Five Bullet Friday. It's become one of my favorite things I do every week. It's free. It's always going to be free. And you can learn more at Tim.blog forward slash Friday. That's Tim.blog forward slash Friday.

I get asked a lot how I meet guests for the podcast, some of the most amazing people I've ever interacted with. And little known fact, I've met probably 25% of them because they first subscribed to Five Bullet Friday. So you'll be in good company. It's a lot of fun. Five Bullet Friday is only available if you subscribe via email. I do not publish the content on the blog or anywhere else. Also, if I'm doing small in-person meetups, offering early access to startups, beta testing, special deals, or anything else that's very limited, I share it first with Five Bullet Friday subscribers. So check it out, tim.blog forward slash Friday. If you listen to this podcast, it's very likely

that you'd dig it a lot and you can, of course, easily subscribe any time. So easy peasy. Again, that's tim.blog forward slash Friday. And thanks for checking it out. If the spirit moves you. Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss, and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. This one is an experimental episode, as I often indulge in, and it features one of my favorite writers, an inspiring fellow, Paolo Quello, who has long been one of my writing inspirations. His books of near universal appeal

span from The Alchemist to the most recent Adultery, and his work has been translated into more than 70 languages. Who knew there were even 70 languages on the planet? And few people know that The Alchemist, which was sold to an original Brazilian publisher, which printed 900 copies, has now sold more than 65 million copies worldwide. I expect it's probably more than 100 million. That original Brazilian publisher, after the 900 copies, declined to reprint it. It wasn't until after his subsequent novel, called Brida, that The Alchemist was revived and took off. I, for one, have always been very impressed with consistent writers. Paulo averages one book every two years, and he is staggeringly consistent.

As I am recording this, I'm under the pressure of deadlines, and I more often feel like Kurt Vonnegut did, also one of my favorite writers. And he explains it with a quote, quote, when I write, I feel like an armless, legless man with a crayon in his mouth. That's most of the time that I spend writing. So my output is erratic at best. And I wondered, how does Paolo write? What is his process? How does he think about it? in his mouth. That's most of the time that I spend writing. So my output is erratic at best. And I wondered, how does Paolo write? What is his process? How does he think about it? And this episode covers a lot of that. It might seem like a niche topic for this podcast. For those of you

who say, well, I'm not a writer, what am I going to get out of this? And what I would encourage you to think of as you listen, and the audio is a little bit grainy because he recorded it from Geneva in Switzerland, that it showcases in many ways, the struggle and how someone at the top of their game who has seemingly beaten all of the odds still has the daily struggle. And I reached out to him. He was kind enough to reply with the audio that I've included. And he really provides some gems and answers to the following questions, which I've included. And he really provides some gems and answers to the following questions, which I will read right now because he doesn't always repeat them. And here we go. So the first is when on deadline, what is the first thing you do in the morning? What does your daily schedule look like? Do you take any days off and what determines if you've

had a quote successful and quote writing day? The next, how do you capture ideas that might be helpful in your writing these days? What software and tools do you use for writing next? How much of your books do you visualize or outline upfront versus writing organically piece by piece? In other words, how much of the story arc have you decided before you start writing? Let's take two books as examples, the alchemist and Aleph, A LL-E-P-H. Otherwise, how did the process differ for these two books? What are your most common mistakes that you see first-time novelists making, most common weaknesses? Do you base your characters on real people? Why or why not? If not, how do you develop those characters? And then last, what are the two to three things you personally

find most invigorating or helpful when you're stuck or feel stagnated with writing slash ideas? Do you have a team of any type, researchers, et cetera, who help you? And he also offered a few other suggestions. Uh, the, well, the first is some context. The sentence in Alice in Wonderland that he mentions is begin at the beginning. The King said gravely and go on until you come to the end, then stop. That is it. And he covers a lot on his YouTube channel. And for all of his musings, you can certainly see his Facebook fan page, which is just facebook.com forward slash Paolo Quello. And he has the same handle on Twitter. I think he has something along the lines of 28 million fans as I record this, which is astonishing. So without further ado, please enjoy this short and

experimental episode with the incredible Paulo Coelho. And I will link to anything he mentions in the show notes, as well as additional, pleasure to talk to you. Looking forward to meet you, as I said in my email. As for your answers, I will try to be as brief as I can. About the deadline, I don't have deadlines. I write a book once every two years, and I sit down, of course. I have the book inside of me, and I start procrastinating in the morning. I check in my emails, I check news, I check everything that I could check,

or just to postpone the moment to sit and face myself as a writer in front of my book. So let's say that for three hours I'm trying to tell myself that, oh no, no, later, later, later. And then one moment

I say, okay, just not lose the face in front of myself, I'm going to sit, and I'm going to write half an hour. And I do, and of course, this half an hour becomes ten hours in a row. That's why I write

my books very quickly, because I cannot stop. I cannot stop, I cannot stop. And then, of course, at night, I take a lot of notes, because I'm still in the speed of writing the book. The next day, these notes are totally useless.

The same thing happens again. Checking emails, going to social communities, postponing, procrastinating, and I cannot stop. Probably this is my inner ritual, you know. I have to feel guilty

of not writing for three hours or four hours, but then when I'm there, I start writing non-stop. As I said before, in two weeks I have the book ready. Okay, next question. My daily schedule while writing books is the one that I just described trying to escape from my task of writing my books

my normal daily schedule is in the morning checking my social communities answering emails then walking walking is for me my way of thinking, my way of meditating. It's not that I'm thinking, but I am in a kind of trance,

totally connected with the present moment. And when I arrive from walking, I sit here and then I start really connecting to my social communities. I work with three or four people, not more than that. My agent in Barcelona, my office in Brazil and my webmaster. This is the only three people that have access to me. There is a very strong shield, so I can really use my time to do what I think I should do

to fulfill this blessing that was bestowed on me, that was to allow me to live my personal legend, to become a writer against all odds, because Brazilians don't have this tradition to be translated. And besides that, there are very few authors who can make a living out of writing. Not in the U.S., but all over the world. However, I was so committed to my work that it was my dream. It was my dream

from the very beginning. So I really enjoy what I do. I don't work. In fact, what I'm doing is really to have pleasure and have fun and have social responsibility towards my readers, myself, and the world where I live. Do I take any days off?

I take many, well, back to what I said, I force myself to take two weeks off, but not during my writing period. My writing period is like I go into a tank, and I only can leave this tank after finishing the book. So, as Alice in Wonderland, Lewis Carroll says, Alice in Wonderland, is very used to write a book. Start in the beginning, go through the middle,

and go to the end, and then stop. That is it. No secret. I can later quote Lewis Carroll's sentence in an email. I don't know it by heart, but it's more or less what he said. A successful writing day is the day that I suffer in the morning

and I have fun in the evening. Fun by writing. Fun, I will not describe this as fun. It's also painful. But it's exhausting because I don't realize that I'm totally connected.

I'm in a kind of trance. So when I go to bed after 10 hours working, well, the adrenaline is still circulating in my blood. And there is this note pad by my side, and I take notes, but I take notes only to take them out from my head. They will be useless the next day. I never used notes that I took on leave to continue writing. And this happened since I wrote my first book, The Pilgrimage.

I cannot change this process. I wish I could sit and write and not feel guilty for four or five hours during the day. It's impossible. How do I capture ideas that might be helpful in your writing? I don't. I don't. I try to live my life.

I cry. I do live my life. And eventually some subject pops up when this cycle of two years ends. And there are several layers

of ideas I think I'm going to write a book about this and then I start and then the second and then the third but hidden behind all these books that are not ready to be written or should never be written

it is the book that I want to be written that I want to write so and it is the book that I want to be written, that I want to write. And it is the book that wants to be written. I think it is much more a decision from the book than from the writer. And then when you discover the first sentence, behind this first sentence there is a thread that takes you to the last, to the last sentence of the book. Let's say, let me give you an example. When

I wrote The Alchemist, I wanted to write a metaphor about me, about my life. And to be honest, I don't know why did I choose a shepherd boy. I've never been a shepherd. I did not do any research on shepherds, not even in Islam. I heard someone when I was in Israel mentioning the five precepts of Islam. But the book was dear. I think that when you write a book as it is written in the alchemist you connect to the soul of the world. You connect to this energy that I call

inspiration. Everybody calls inspiration. And then there's not that such effort to write it. As for Aleph and then there's not such an effort to write it as far as I left I took this trans-Siberian

journey in 2006 and I never thought I would be able to write a book on it why? because it's so difficult to explain this point that contains everything so I lived my experience

traveling for three months I met this Aleph, this point but I thought I would be unable to write about it and then one day But I thought I would be unable to write about it. And then one day, two years ago, I was talking to a friend and she said, why don't you write about the Trans-Siberian? No, this long trip. I said, first, because I don't feel like writing this.

Second, because it's not every single experience that I have in my life that I want to write. On the opposite, I write about a few experiences, but not all of them. But, well, and then, okay, three days later, I got this inspiration.

Yes, I should write. The book is ready. And I started the book with a word that normally you don't start a book it is no nobody starts a book saying no it's considered to be a bad vibe

that said the book is now at the moment that I'm recording this interview number one everywhere it was released two weeks ago in Germany at that time recorded this interview number one everywhere it was released two weeks ago in in Germany and it went to number three one week ago and then this week number two so yeah if you want to capture ideas you're lost because you're not going to live

your life you're going to be capturing ideas, you're going to be detached from the emotions that you need to be well, to live fully you'll be an observer

and not a human being that is living his or her life. I strongly, I strongly, except, of course, for technical stuff, I strongly encourage writers not to think about writing every time

that they do something. Forget notebooks. Forget taking notes. Let what is important remains. What is not important goes away. So when you sit down to write, well, there is

this process of purge, this process of cleansing, that only the important things remain. So it's much more easy than taking notes and overload yourself with information.

Software and tools that you use for writing. I use I would like to elaborate more. I don't want this podcast to be very long I know that it is a blog but basically I use words and that's all

that's all having said that a writer today is not a writer of books he or she must be fully conscious that there are different types of writing. You can write for books,

you can write for mobiles, you can write Twitter, you can write blogs, and each and every platform requires a different technique. This is what is very exciting for

writers today is we are in front of a new challenge. And you have to learn how to do it. A tweet is not a book. A book is not a tweet. So, but

please, writers should exercise training in this new techniques. Let's forget about the classic format of books and move to the way that Internet is now forcing us to move, forcing, I mean, encouraging us to write. Yeah, as for the story arc, there are only four stories. The story of a love story between two people,

a love story between two people. A love story between three people. The struggle for power. And the journey. Every single book that it is in a bookstore deals with these four archetypes, these four themes. So, you have to decide only among these four themes. But back, it is not, in my case, it's not me who decides. It is the book itself. I'm not

saying, well, the book is powerful, it is an angel that it is whispering to me what to write. No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that normally I have 10,000 books that I feel like writing and at the end of the day, I only write one. Let's take two books as examples, you said. Alchemist and Alive. How did your process differ from these two books? They are very much close.

One is a metaphor, that it is the alchemist. The other one is a real experience, my own experience. My own experience. However, both of them are in the classic story arc or travel, of a journey. So they are very much close. They are part of my soul. If there is... Yeah, I think that I answered the question. What are the most common mistakes that you see first-time novelists making? The most common mistake is the first-time novelists are always postponing.

And then they are very, very much insecure. When they finish and they publish a book, and you talk to them, and they say, oh, but you need to see my next book. This is totally nonsense. If you talk to many, many, many, many writers, they say that. And I don't understand. I really don't understand why do they say that.

You cannot underrate yourself. You cannot feel insecure. You cannot sell your next book by despising your or underrating the book that was just published. So, as for style and this type of things,

don't try to innovate. I mean, you can innovate in Twitter, Facebook, books, mobiles, but don't try to innovate storytelling. Storytelling is the, well, it is the, since the

dawn of times, and it is magical and tell a good story. I see people trying to work so much in style, you know, finding different ways to tell the same thing. That is like, well, it's like fashion, you know, style is the dress, but the dress does not dictate what is inside the dress, the person. So what counts is the person inside the dress, not

the dress itself. Of course, we need to write with good taste. And another advice that I would give is that keep it simple. Keep it simple. Trust your reader. He or she has a lot of imagination. Don't try to describe things. Give a hint and they will fulfill this hint with their own imaginations. That's why

I'm so reluctant to show the rights of my book to movies, because there you have everything. The reader does not need to think. However, if I say like in Aleph at the very beginning

well I am in my house in the Pyrenees and there is an oak there, well I don't need to explain in details my house in the Pyrenees, I only need to put the two elements that

are important, the oak myself and thees, I only needed to put the two elements that are important, the oak, myself, and the person that I'm talking to. And that's all. So keep it simple. Trust your reader. Understand that he or she can fulfill the empty spaces. Don't over-explain. Most common weaknesses of first-time novelists,

of course, lack of self-confidence. When The Alchemist was published, it did not sell, so the first publisher gave me the book back. But I was so convinced that I started knocking doors. And then I found a second publisher. Imagine, there was one month in my life that I could really quit my dream and if I was

not perseverant enough the alchemist will not be the worldwide success as it is today the second weakness is to pay too much attention to critics I don't think this happened

in US but outside US critics is to pay too much attention to critics. I don't think this happened in the U.S., but outside U.S., critics, well, they are losing ground very fast because now Internet has this power of promoting or killing anything, but still writers want to please their peers. They want to please other writers they want to be recognized by the academia by the system

forget about this who cares you should care to share your soul and not and not to please other writer who is going to write a review that nobody is going to read, just tell you how good you are, and then you are also obliged in the future to write a review about his books. No, no, no, forget, forget. This is really a weakness.

Don't pay attention and also don't answer to reviewers. Don't answer to critics. Do I base my characters in real people? Depends. In many books, yes. Aleph, of course. The Pilgrimage is my first book, yes. No fiction. The Valkyries. But yes, you cannot take something out of nothing.

So when you write a book, you use your experience, not your conscious experience, but things that are important, as I said, and that remains in you. And I don't develop my characters. I give them free reign. They guide me. When I used to read that in biographies of other writers. I said, oh, these people, they are trying to cheat me because, come on, how can a character guide a writer?

They are just trying to make it very mystical, very, you know, like they were in an ivory tower. But in fact, when I started writing, I saw that this is totally true. Except, of course, for some books

that should be based on concrete experiences. In my case, it is the pilgrimage, Valkyries, and Aleph. Let me, yeah. What are the two, three things I find

most invigorating or helpful when you are stuck or feel stagnated with writing ideas. Okay, there is only one thing. For there are no two, three,

four. When I feel stagnated, I promise to myself that if I don't feel inspired, I need to move forward. I need to move forward. I need to have discipline. So, and it happens.

In the middle of a book, now, there I am, without knowing how to continue the story, even if it is a non-fiction story. But then I say, okay, you are fighting with me you are fighting with me ok

I am going to sit here and I am not going to leave you alone until I find my way out of this crossroads and then it may take 10 minutes it may take 10 hours but if you don't have discipline enough you don't move forward And then it may take 10 minutes, it may take 10 hours,

but if you don't have discipline enough, you don't move forward. So at the end of the day, Tim, writing books is basically sharing your experience and this is part of the human condition. And if you really are honest, if you don't try to fill a formula, to follow a formula, you have to be free to write. I wrote about prostitution in 11 minutes. I wrote about madness in Veronica Decides to Die. So I wrote about things that are important to me,

issues that are important to me. And you should be free to write things that you feel. And not try to repeat the same formula over and over again. And I don't have researchers. No, no, no. If I need any research, of course, when I wrote Aleph, I did not take notes, as I told you. I had this fantastic experience, but then I am in a city in the middle of Siberia and I forgot the name of the street, of the hotel.

Then I do a quick research. That's all. But if you overload your book with a lot of research, you're going to be very boring to yourself and to your readers. Books are not there to show how intelligent and cultivated you are. Books are out there to show your heart, to show your soul,

and to tell your friends, readers, I'm not alone, and I hope you're not because you can identify yourself with my books or my words as I can identify yourself with my books or my words as I can identify yourself with your garden

with your music with anything that we do with love thank you very much sorry it is a little bit big I'm going to upload and to send you the podcast may God bless you

as we say here, au revoir. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And five bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week.

That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to 4hourworkweek.com.

That's 4hourworkweek.com all spelled out. And just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it.