The Tim Ferriss Show - #222: Jerrod Carmichael - Uber-Productivity and Dangerous Comedy

Starting point is 00:00:00 optimal minimal at this altitude i can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking can i ask you a personal question now what is the appropriate time i'm a cybernetic organism living tissue over metal endoskeleton this episode is brought to you by ag1, the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole body health. I do get asked a lot what I would take if I could only take one supplement. And the true answer is invariably AG1. It simply covers a ton of bases. I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me on the road. So what is AG1? AG1 is a science-driven formulation of vitamins,

Starting point is 00:00:47 probiotics, and whole food sourced nutrients. In a single scoop, AG1 gives you support for the brain, gut, and immune system. So take ownership of your health and try AG1 today. You will get a free one-year supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs with your first subscription purchase. So learn more,

Starting point is 00:01:15 check it out. Go to drinkag1.com slash Tim. That's drinkag1, the number one, drinkag1.com slash Tim. Last time, drinkag1.com slash Tim. Check it out. This episode is brought to you by Five Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. It's become one of the most popular email newsletters in the world with millions of subscribers. And it's super, super simple. It does not clog up your inbox. Every Friday, I send out five bullet points, super short, of the coolest things I've found that week, which sometimes includes apps, books, documentaries, supplements, gadgets, new self-experiments, hacks, tricks, and all sorts of weird stuff that I dig up from around the world. You guys, podcast listeners and book readers, have asked me for something short and action-packed for a very long time, because

Starting point is 00:01:55 after all, the podcast, the books, they can be quite long. And that's why I created Five Bullet Friday. It's become one of my favorite things I do every week. It's free, it's always going to be free, and you can learn more at tim.blog forward slash Friday. That's tim.blog forward slash Friday. I get asked a lot how I meet guests for the podcast, some of the most amazing people I've ever interacted with, and little known fact, I've met probably 25% of them because they first subscribed to Five Bullet Friday.

Starting point is 00:02:24 So you'll be in good company. It's a lot of fun. Five Bullet Friday is only available if you subscribe via email. I do not publish the content on the blog or anywhere else. Also, if I'm doing small in-person meetups, offering early access to startups, beta testing, special deals, or anything else that's very limited, I share it first with Five Bullet Friday subscribers. So check it out. Tim.blog forward slash Friday. If you listen to this podcast, it's very likely

Starting point is 00:02:50 that you'd dig it a lot and you can, of course, easily subscribe any time. So easy peasy. Again, that's tim.blog forward slash Friday. And thanks for checking it out. If the spirit moves you. Hello, boys and girls, this is Tim Ferriss and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers of all different types to tease out the habits, routines, tactics, coping mechanisms, favorite books, whatever that you can apply and test in your own life. This episode features one of my favorite comedians of all time, and he's a young feller, Gerard Carmichael. On Twitter, you can say hello at NotoriousROD. He's pushing the boundaries of comedy with his groundbreaking work in stand-up television and

Starting point is 00:03:38 film. Now, he's just 29 years old. And what this North Carolina native has accomplished in that short period of time is mind boggling to me. And I know a lot of productive people. We get into his work process. We talk about how he gets so much done. And if you visit him on social media right now, he has zero posts on Twitter, on Instagram, at Gerard Carmichael. And 2017 is going to be his biggest year yet. So we do talk about focus and how he went from East Coast to West Coast and got all of this done. Gerard stars in the hit NBC series, The Carmichael Show, which he also writes and executive produces. The third season of that show is premiering this year in 2017. In March of 2017, this year, Gerard will star in his second stand-up comedy special

Starting point is 00:04:22 on HBO directed by Bo Burnham. He made his debut on HBO in 2014 with his critically acclaimed one-hour special Love at the Store directed by Spike Lee. So Love at the Store, this is a name I want you to remember. You have to watch this. It is arguably the funniest stand-up special I've seen in many, many years. And it's the reason that I initially reached out to have Gerard on the podcast. It left me in total hysterics on a transatlantic flight. Some wine might've been involved, but it terrified everyone because I could not stop bursting out laughing out loud while other people were trying to sleep. Sorry, everybody, but it's that good. And immediately, as soon as I got off the flight, started texting my friends, guys, you have to check out Love at the Store. So watch that and you'll know why I reached out

Starting point is 00:05:09 to Gerard. Now on the big screen this June, Gerard joins the cast of Michael Bay's Transformers, The Last Knight, opposite Mark Wahlberg, Josh Duhamel, am I getting that right? D-U-H-A-M-E-L, and Anthony Hopkins. He'll also appear in James Franco's The Masterpiece, set to be released in 2017. In the summer of last year, 2016, Gerard reprised his role as Garf. If you've seen Neighbors, he did that in the Universal Comedy sequel Neighbors 2, opposite Seth Rogen and Zac Efron. I originally met, in an indirect way, Gerard through Seth and Evan, more specifically Evan Goldberg, both of whom have been on the podcast before. He also starred as Freddie opposite Rose Byrne, Susan Sarandon, and J.K. Simmons in The Meddler, which was released April 2016. So this guy's going nowhere but up, as far as I can tell, the most incredible work ethic and focus of anyone I've met in a very long

Starting point is 00:06:02 time. And he'll have an upcoming as yet untitled memoir coming out through Random House. He's got a million things going. How does he do it? We dig into all of it. And we also discuss dangerous comedy and much, much more. So please enjoy my conversation as wide ranging as it is with Gerard Carmichael. Sir, welcome to the show. Oh, thanks for having me. I am so excited to finally sit down and record this because I remember very, very specifically

Starting point is 00:06:32 the first time I was introduced to you and it was actually on the working set for Neighbors 2. You had not yet arrived, but your picture was up alongside a bunch of other people who were going to be appearing in the movie. And I was on the set because I was going to be interviewing Evan Goldberg and Seth Rogen. And we were going through a few of the names. I was asking questions about folks and he pointed to yours because I mentioned how I'd watched Neighbors and enjoyed your particular role in that movie.

Starting point is 00:07:04 And he said, oh, he's going to be really big. Along those lines is what he said. Oh, wow. Very nice. And then shortly thereafter, I think I told you about this, we have all sorts of exciting sounds going on. We got a raven. We got running water.

Starting point is 00:07:18 A raven who's lost her family. I was on a flight, an international flight, and Love at the Store was one of the options. Yeah. So you're special. And it may or may not have been the case that I had one or two glasses of wine. Oh, that's the only way to watch it. But it was a sleeper.

Starting point is 00:07:35 So everyone was asleep except for me. And I'm drinking wine and watching your standup. And I thought I was going to be kicked out of the cabin because I laughed so much. And as soon as I landed, I did two things. So one of my friends, Mike, I immediately sent him a text when I said, you have to watch this stand up immediately. Number one. Wow. And number two is that I went on Twitter and this is how we met.

Starting point is 00:08:00 If you might remember. And I said, is the Evan in your stand-up special evan goldberg that's right that's how we connected that's right and it was evan goldberg yeah who uh was in the audience for the show and i just talked to him like just like midway through the show just start talking to evan that was great i mean and you do a few things that i haven't seen in finished specials before. Another was you will refer to your notes on stage sometimes. Yeah, for Love at the Store, the intention was to just capture me on a Saturday night at the comedy store.

Starting point is 00:08:38 I wanted it to be very... Truthfully, we cut for time, but Jamar Neighbors, who's this hilarious guy, my best friend, went up before me. Like, I had this guy, Argus Hamilton, just, like, this legend of the comedy store and of the scene. Like, he was the, like,

Starting point is 00:08:56 it just felt kind of like a Saturday, like, we're doing spots, and I wanted to just capture it. And just me working out material, it was very much so like an exercise. It was like, oh yeah, and I referred to notes because I was trying out. I did new stuff on that special.

Starting point is 00:09:13 You did? Yeah, I did new material. And I also remember asking you about your interactions with the audience. At one point you said, your skin is so milky. There was one moment that you said, I don't think I've used that adjective ever in my life. Yeah, it was.

Starting point is 00:09:24 It was the thing that popped in my head. I saw her. I was like, yeah, she had really milky yeah this one woman they said i don't think i've used that adjective ever in my life yeah it was it was the thing that popped in my head like i saw her i was like yeah she had really milky skin what can you say you describe it accurately i thought it was it was pretty milky right it was wrong no it was very accurately described how did you first connect with evan evan i met because i want to get this right i i met like josh and alex who work at his company and then i believe i met evan actually on the set of the first neighbors i believe he he seen me you know and and you know he and like nick stoller and seth y'all all involved hired all involved in hiring me. But I'm trying to think the first time we met, I think, was on set at Neighbors.

Starting point is 00:10:13 And he's just like this, I mean, he has incredible energy. He has incredible energy. He has incredible energy. He never sits during meetings. No. He's always standing or doing like a Gollum squat. Yes. He has very good squat form.

Starting point is 00:10:24 Very amazing squat form. He paces around he's like he i mean and so many ideas i've never met someone who has as many like ideas as evan like just like just like rapid fire like and is able to take a thing and like bend it and and prod it on all sides and he it incredible just watching Evan in a room. He's a prolific generator of ideas. Insane. And I remember one of the, and we're going to talk a lot about,

Starting point is 00:10:52 I think, how you develop your material and process, but I remember one of the experiences that I had in Atlanta was sitting in the, I suppose the writer's room while they were spitballing ideas. One person was manning a keyboard, typing everything in,

Starting point is 00:11:07 and they had many, many, many different revisions of this script, which, as I understand it, is very kind of Judd Apatow, meaning like what the script comes in looking at is nothing like the improv. It changes to something else, yeah. And so they were all shouting out suggestions,

Starting point is 00:11:22 and Evan said, fuck, I think every third third word and it was just typed right in and i remember at one point i was like what's next because fuck is every third word and he said to me he goes no the important thing and i'm paraphrasing but he said you you want to keep the generating of ideas and the editing of ideas separate and you can always d you can always defuck the script later remember that line you can defuck the script later. Remember that line? You can defuck the script later. That's actually, that's brilliant.

Starting point is 00:11:50 You can defuck the script later. When do you remember, if you do, your first memory of working on comedy or being funny? Oh, that's a great question. I think I was... So when I was a kid, we used to just record things. It was infatuated. We'd take like the camcorder and just like record things and do sketches and, or what I guess are, you don't know what they are. There's no form.

Starting point is 00:12:21 Right. It's like, no, you're just like recording whatever. Yeah, freestyling. Freestyling. And we, like, and like and when you say we this is you me the kids in the neighborhood my family you know everyone's involved and we're all it's i was really blessed to be around a lot of like creative minds like people who are just like down and really creative and like really uh excited about just like jumping into characters and and doing things and so that was kind of the first experience just kind of uh but truthfully eighth grade was uh really important for me like just comedy specifically just comedy and

Starting point is 00:13:01 thinking that i was maybe funny you know why eighth grade what happened in eighth grade i had a teacher who um who got me started reading the newspaper and it was do you remember his or her name oh kwame nyeri so this guy all right you know just when kwame nyeri had me read the autobiography of malcolm x start reading like like like the, the New York times and like the local newspaper. And this is like an eighth grade and, and taking in all this information, uh, and like learning and kind of discovering myself, like humor was just this big, it was how I broke the tension of any information that I received. So I remember specifically there being one moment in class. I don't know why this stands out so much, but he wanted to have a debate.

Starting point is 00:13:48 Right. And so we were we read an article. I don't remember specifically what it was about, but we were choosing. It was a guy that committed a crime and would decide rather not. It was justified. And we're supposed to pick sides as a class. And he said, well, who crime you know wasn't justified and everyone in the class except me raised their hand and then they were like well who thinks it was and it was just me and then for the next hour no exaggeration i debated like 23 other students on like just like oh why this man deserved to commit a crime and it was the most fun i ever had it was

Starting point is 00:14:26 like it was like having information and then being able to put your own filter and manipulate it in in your own way was so important to me and that's kind of that's in a sense that's kind of my if my comedy has a style or an intention behind it. It's that eighth grade class, me against everyone else in the class. Well, that's part of the reason why I insisted my friend Mike watch your stuff, which I know Mike really well. I mean, 10 out of 10 hit with Mike also. But I remember watching, and I'm not going to spoil it for folks. There are a few instances in particular that because I don't have the delivery and I wouldn't give you the context, I would get in trouble for just by mentioning. But I recommend everybody check it out.

Starting point is 00:15:09 And I think there will be a moment for everyone where you will probably feel extremely uncomfortable, offended or both. And that is good for you. It's healthy. So I'll leave it. It's really healthy. I'll leave it at that. But you grew up in north carolina in north carolina yeah how would you describe your family and uh childhood we had fun you know like we had

Starting point is 00:15:37 i get like i can't speak for everyone in the neighborhood but we enjoyed ourselves like my childhood was um just asking a lot of questions really you know uh really curious about everything you know in a family that allowed room for that like you know everything was challenged we questioned everything like a lot of arguments you know like it was constant arguing but fun arguments you know like amongst the family and friends in the neighborhood um i enjoyed it i enjoyed my childhood a lot i mean we didn't have like a lot of money but it was it was great it was great it was like i had a really creative childhood i think how did your parents help foster that uh they gave me a lot of freedom and and especially in this neighborhood like i didn't i've never had a curfew i never had a like i would just be like all right mom going out and she's

Starting point is 00:16:32 like all right be safe very uh she just said a prayer and just sent me out into the world you know and just me and my friends we just kind of go out and you know go get in fights and all the silly things that you do and and they just gave me a lot of freedom like my mom and dad gave me a lot of freedom so what gave them the confidence so healthy i hate when i see kids like being inhibited like it's you have to like otherwise i guess you have to know the child i guess the specifics of the child though but like what did your parents do uh my mom was a secretary at uh the hospital and my dad a truck driver did that mean your dad was gone a lot of the time yeah on the road a lot yeah he was on the road a lot so you know me and my brother and my mom you know a lot of times just you know uh i don't know it was really i like that the neighborhood it was so many

Starting point is 00:17:25 characters you know like you grew up in like a neighborhood like that or the hood or whatever you call it and it's you know so many characters is and it's very passionate very interesting people yeah very passionate everyone feels very strongly about everything you know like everything is very strong like the type of cigarette they smoke the every every detail is really you know important to them what was the catalyst for pursuing comedy as a career as a profession um it was a thing that i felt i was really good at i wasn't doing anything i I was in North Carolina. I was like, I mean, I was working at a, you know, at a shoe store and just not really doing anything. Let me ask you maybe a strange question. How did you know you were good?

Starting point is 00:18:17 That's a, no, that's a really good question because it is, I mean, validation to, obviously you want to have uh you know the feeling like inside your heart and know that you can do anything right also validation is important from outside sources like I mean you want to confirm that I mean if nobody's laughing at some point you know at some point you know no matter how much you believe like maybe this isn't a strength you want to apply logic to you know your dreams and your beliefs and and i and i had friends who you know spoke very passionately about uh one friend in particular who was like no you think like a comedian like you really should do this like

Starting point is 00:18:56 it's it's different it's like it's funny but it's not the way just the guy at your job is funny it's like different and uh and she pushed me really hard to do it and um you just kind of know like it was constant validation right from where you know just in every situation you're kind of that guy and you know eventually you accept it you either run from it or accept it were you doing i mean could you imagine i just like rebelled because like no i'm a lawyer yeah right you know were you doing open mics at the time or was it just through social interaction i started comedy in la so i moved first and then did comedy because i'm competitive and you should be competitive at some point you know so explain that meaning you didn't want to do it where you didn't feel the scene i don't want to do it where you didn't feel the scene was strong?

Starting point is 00:19:45 Yeah, where the scene's not necessarily strong. And truthfully, there are great scenes around the country. There's Chicago and Atlanta and San Francisco has an amazing comedy scene. But New York, L.A., really New York for just repetition sake, you know, like you can go up so many times, but, but LA is what, like there really is the best are here, the best are in New York. Like you want to be around the best. You don't want to just, you know, there are a lot of people kind of doing comedy everywhere. I look, there's a lot of people kind of doing it in New York and LA too, but also you have these amazing comedians and these people who spend all of their time

Starting point is 00:20:26 for it. You kind of have to create or go to the artist colony for whatever you do, I think. You got to find it and you want to compete and you want to see what you have to gauge. You have to take the temperature of whatever you're talking about. If you're the average of the five

Starting point is 00:20:42 people, we also have a black helicopter coming to pick up some special operations folks who are having lunch next to us. So many helicopters. A lot of helicopters. An insane amount of helicopters. I mean, if you're the average of say the five people you associate with most,

Starting point is 00:20:55 then going to where the competition is the strongest is really important, right? So important. And were your parents at all worried for you? Do you have to have a big conversation with them about packing up and moving west? Yeah, it was kind of, you know, what I've been thinking about it is it's been on my mind for a while. A guy came into the shoe store I was working at. Mind you, I'm like 19, 20 at the time.

Starting point is 00:21:19 What were you doing at the shoe store? Just selling shoes? Just selling them, man. Just putting insoles in. Trying to sell you on some cleaner you know doing the just the whole thing and i did a damn good job mind you yeah you know finish line i sold a lot of you know i think i deserved more i mean i would cry okay anyway but uh a guy came in and he, you know, just small talk with a, you know, a customer. And I'm like, you know, what are you doing? He said, he's an actor. He lives in LA. And I was like, man, I really want to move to LA. And he was like, just move.

Starting point is 00:21:57 And I was like, wait, what? And he was like, yeah, just move. And then he got me, uh, uh, told me about, uh, Westside Reynolds and, and, uh and and uh craigslist and all these things and i just found a place told my parents my sister bought me a plane ticket my brother was excited they were they were excited my mom was more nervous my dad was really encouraging but uh you know you know no one's ever done that from my neighborhood you know like no one had ever i mean what is that yeah just move gonna just move to los angeles to do comedy all right seems to have worked out for you you always have the shoes to fall back on if you have anything yeah listen hey i am not to toot my own horn but i'm fucking amazing you know i still can look at like certain shoes and like i know style numbers

Starting point is 00:22:45 just like style numbers i know what department it is all right so now what made you good at selling shoes i think the same thing that made me good at comedy book uh uh interest uh uh competition competition among other employees yeah oh that was fun me and uh my friend ben used to just oh we competed on everything like everything was because if you're gonna do it in that moment like you know you should have a need or at least a curiosity of well what is being the best at this feel like right like like i went bowling the other night and you know i first kind of playing around and then and then my friends start bowling a little bit better and i was like i'm gonna start bowling a little bit better and you just and before you know it like i'm like at least at

Starting point is 00:23:29 least spares on every front like i was like i was hot because competition it drives you makes you better yeah it makes you better i love it so i want to talk about your daily schedule a little bit because i find it fascinating so do you wake up do you wake up at a consistent time generally is it all over the place it's kind of all over the place i don't sleep a lot did i ever tell you you changed my life i don't think so uh not disrupting rim cycles yeah is genuinely it's helped so much for someone like me who really i mean i got four and a half hours last night which is not bad it's not bad a lot sometimes i'll do three get solid 90 minute days in there oh yeah like just and i actually feel amazing on 90 minutes of sleep if you're getting

Starting point is 00:24:19 the ultradian cyclone that 90 minutes 90 minutes or in multiples of those 90 it makes a big difference you it changed so i it really helped like just i don't sleep a lot i mean certain certain nights you know you can kind of catch up but i'm usually excited i'm like i'll like read until like four or five in the morning and then that's that's my programming too yeah late late late late and then because of certain projects i'm i have to wake up early right you know like i have to be up at eight tomorrow which is you know not ideal but it's fun i mean you know you're up you do it we'll jump into some rehearsals or something what is the first phone call that you make each morning to my mom all right can you tell us about? Because I don't want to start my day with bullshit. I don't like noise. You know, I don't like too much noise, right? As a helicopter flies above. I don't like noise. My mom has a great spirit, like one of the purest people that I know. She doesn't overcomplicate anything. She has such a grace. I love starting. I won't take business

Starting point is 00:25:26 calls before I talk to my sister as well. Like my, the first call of my day is really important. So, so sometimes I'll talk to like my sister first as well. If like, if my mom's too busy for me or something, but like, I actually really like starting a day, a very peaceful, brief conversation, you know, see, see what she's doing is it just a general catch-up or is there just kind of general what are you doing today just curious what i'm very curious what she's doing what she's interested in you know like i'll talk to her for a few minutes and then i'll do other calls but like you you want to start it you know in a very peaceful place and then yell about marketing for an hour.

Starting point is 00:26:08 Right. You need the palate, the spiritual palate cleanser first. Exactly. Exactly. Cause that first moment, like, you know, you, you just jump into a thing, you know, like you want to center yourself first. For sure. Is there a particular way you end those calls? Just kind of a sweet, I love you, you know, like a sweet. Or me, I'm more aggressive than she is. So me, you know, like, hey, make sure you, I'm trying to make sure my parents are hydrated. So I'm like, I like bust at her about water every morning. I'm just like, all right, ma. You know, like.

Starting point is 00:26:38 Have another glass of water. Have another glass. Yeah, have a couple liters today, which is insane to her. And so. There's something about moms and not hydrating. I don't know what it is. Does your mom not hydrate? No. Really?

Starting point is 00:26:51 Yeah. A lot of mothers of my friends also, their sons or daughters are on them about drinking more water. Drink more water. I don't know what it is. My mom and dad, every day, just like, how much water did you drink? It's the question. So I'm more combative than she is she's in such a great constant state of zen and i'm just like yeah but how much

Starting point is 00:27:11 you know i'm like fussing at her about why you love life that's great let's talk about the water yeah yeah yeah how many ounces exactly and so but she it's just a great way to start the day so you uh have and i pinged evan before we met up as i mentioned just try to get some some bullets to talk about one was he seems to well and again i'm paraphrasing this but seems to eat the same things and eat at the same places constantly and then we sat down we had a bite to eat just uh maybe 20 minutes ago and you had scrambled eggs and blueberries yeah you said this has been your default was it lunch for the last well breakfast well whatever time breakfast is but yeah for years blueberries and eggs it just i feel great blueberries and eggs you know

Starting point is 00:27:58 and i used to do almonds now walnuts start the you know, like that's the, I'm a creature of habit, you know, and I like the restaurant and I like, I like everything to kind of move efficiently. I like the, you know, the rhythm, you walk into a restaurant, you know, what you're getting, you know, you, you bring friends, they're familiar with you, you're familiar with them. Saves your brain cycle. Yeah, exactly. Cause you can put all that energy toward like creating thinking figuring things out you know so you also mentioned something and i was like wait hold it i don't want to talk about it i want to talk about it actually i do want to talk about it when we're

Starting point is 00:28:33 recording that you had a uniform for a very long time yeah yeah i was wearing the same i bought like a lot of the same shirt it was just like white sweatshirt gray pants like timberlands every day every day it worked in any place that i went that's what i like it worked everywhere flexible i go to i'll go to your wedding in this thing i go and just the same thing and it because it took out so much time in my morning. That's very much Steve Jobsian. That's what he did. Yeah, but now I'm off a little bit. It's still kind of in the same ballpark.

Starting point is 00:29:09 Why did you change it? I mean, clothes are fun. I like certain clothes. I'll go through a phase and just... And I'm picking out a lot of wardrobe for the show and stuff like that. So I'm thinking about clothes. Right.

Starting point is 00:29:22 But you want intention behind everything. So I was just about clothes, you know, but, but you actually, you want intention behind everything. So, you know, I was just wearing the same thing. It was perfect. I'll go back to that. I'll absolutely go. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:32 I'll go back to that. What do you think your next uniform will be? Or we'll maybe the same thing. It worked. It worked, but maybe switch it. Maybe a, maybe a gray sweatshirt.

Starting point is 00:29:40 Go crazy. White James purse, sweatshirt, acne jeans, some Timberlands. That's it. it every morning you don't think about it just in stacks i just had stacks of the shirts and stacks of the pants and just grab just grab the one off the top do you remember the first time that you bombed or what was the first memorable bomb oh my first set your first set first set was just i mean atrocious this was open mic at the comedy store nobody was in the audience

Starting point is 00:30:13 there was no it was an open mic i went up first at the open mic the the sun was up i was competing against the sun and it's this giant window and and it's where i taped my first special it was like the giant window at the time in the original original room of the comedy so yeah and it's it's august and the sun is up and they're just comedians in the back so i guess technically technically i didn't bomb but it wasn't a it was a it was a soliloquy i was just doing a soliloquy up there it wasn't comedy i just went up and did yeah i just kind of talked and talked way too fast and got off the stage way too fast yeah how would you coach or what advice would you give to a comic you see someone they do a set and they

Starting point is 00:30:59 just bomb and they're new and they come off and you can tell that they're totally demoralized what do you say to that person it's just people what do you mean like the audience it's people we're all just people you know like it's no you know go do it again but i honestly sometimes the bombing indicates that you're going to you know some type of new territory for you and only, you know, you. So like sometimes it's good. It's a good thing. It's kind of like a cleansing, you know? And so you can't run from it. You, you know, tell yourself it'll never happen again. It will, but tell yourself that it won't and go do it again, you know, and stop, you know, a lot of, I wonder if it's like this in, mean i know comedy really well but everyone's

Starting point is 00:31:46 like kind of looking for like rules right to follow and and as soon as you realize there aren't any the the better art can be you know like it's like because people start looking for like what you got to do this first and you you know um and for that first special i remember um i got a lot of like flack from especially like older comics and he's just like he's checking his notes on hbo what is this kid doing you're like you're in the 10 commandments of comedy yeah where where where you know what i mean mort salt check his nose you know he's like like you can do whatever you want. You can, and people don't accept that. People don't know how free they are.

Starting point is 00:32:28 My understanding with the, just to talk about the original room, did they let cameras in there a lot? That was the first time anyone had taped anything in there. How did that happen? I mean, we were pretty persistent.

Starting point is 00:32:42 I had a really specific vision, you know, me and my friend Andrew talked about specifically what it would look like and what that first special would be. And so it just had to be that room. So it was just pretty insistent. Now, they, of course, have the power to say no, right? So you can't just hit them with the same pitch 40 times in a row.

Starting point is 00:33:01 They're going to be like, fuck off, kid, number one. But on the 35th time, smile more. You just smile. You add a little... We were just pretty... I mean, that room had been

Starting point is 00:33:12 very special to me and it just kind of worked out. I'm very thankful they had never done it before, but there was no reason to not do it just because you've never done it before.

Starting point is 00:33:22 So, you know, I guess you were able to convince them. You know, HBO wasn't just bringing you know it wasn't just like me and a couple friends with camcorders this was like it's like hbo you didn't bring your over the shoulder vhs yeah yeah hey but let us let us release this like this was hbo you know and and and uh you know because of that certain amount of exclusivity i think it was a good first time for them. Yeah. I think some people have recorded in there since, but like no one, especially in that room.

Starting point is 00:33:52 Yeah. I had my first ever walkthrough tour of a comedy store by Brian Callen a while while back you know brian callan bought me my first car in l.a really brian callan and dove davidoff bought me a car i was never met dove also one of my favorites he they're they're both incredible i i'm i'm so thankful for them and like really like it was like brian callan dove davidoff Brett Ernst would look out for me. Al Magical would look out. And all these people were just like really, Bill Burr was like so nice to me. But Brian and Dove bought me a car. Wow.

Starting point is 00:34:37 Because I was like walking there like you shouldn't do it. And I got like a text like go pick up your car. Like we'd done a weekend in La Jolla. And then on that Monday, I just got a text I go pick up your car and I mean it was one of the nicest things guys Brian is a sweetheart he's a sweetheart of a guy so funny so great and he walked me through and he's like yeah and then here's the table you can see all the scratch marks from razor blades oh yeah and we're all the comedians there's a little piano in one of the green rooms and it's a little tiny glass piano. Not a real piano.

Starting point is 00:35:05 It's just a table, a coffee table. It looks like one. It's so many lines. And we like to, me and my friend Angelo used to like to point to the lines

Starting point is 00:35:12 and assign them to certain comedians. Like, oh, there's Richard Pryor. It's like, just assign it to like. His razor blade signature. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's still there.

Starting point is 00:35:20 We're so excited. What other routines do you have that are important to you or things that you repeat you mentioned the food which for me is extremely key yeah i don't want to have to think about what to have for breakfast yeah locations i repeat locations all the time you mentioned the clothing which is something that has been true for me for a long time but i've aspired to have a uniform yeah more of a uniform also to make me care less about what people think of my external appearance yeah it's like if you just have like a white hand shirt and jeans it's totally fine and if people are judging you because of that then people the the people that matter realize that all that you should focus on is the work right now clothing or all these things as it

Starting point is 00:36:09 relates to work are important right you know like like it's a lot of intention behind like like i said like wardrobe for the show with that type of thing i think about that because i think everything should have some type of intention behind it but as as far as just like, I look, I mean, make you feel good. I mean, obviously clothing can, you know, make someone feel good, but focus on like work, focus on something of substance that means something, you know? And that's why, because if you, if being a creature of habit works so good because you don't spend a lot and you were talking about like listening to music while working, right? And we're talking, if you spend all of your energy trying to figure out where you are and reorient yourself,

Starting point is 00:36:50 like, all right, well, what is this? And you're looking around. You're not focused on what you're supposed to focus on. So you go to the same place. You sit in the same spot. So then you can ignore everything and you can just be directed inward. Well, we were talking about music, just to to touch on that because i'm able to work to certain types of music generally instrumental often electronica but it seems like neither of us can work to jazz yeah i want to figure it out

Starting point is 00:37:19 i play it and sometimes i'm trying right but i just want to figure it out it's like man what is miles davis doing right now trying to dissect what's happening yeah you want to and and so i have to i just listen to it separate i can think to it you know and like just but but if i'm like writing or if i'm trying to work on something really specific like just silence what uh what are some of the best decisions that you made in the first few years of your career you land in la you remember any of the decisions um that maintain a certain amount of exclusivity for yourself what does that mean uh i think uh for instance like uh you don't go don't go we're just talking about habits so it's going to seem like it immediately contradicts it but but like even like open mics i wouldn't do the

Starting point is 00:38:11 exact same open mics every time because you do it you do well and then move on to the next place like stay in motion you know and that's that's specifically for you know what i was doing i'm sure it applies to other things too but you know don't stay in one spot too, you know, what I was doing. I'm sure it applies to other things too, but you know, don't stay in one spot too long, you know, don't get too comfortable, don't get too comfortable, you know,

Starting point is 00:38:30 like while working, you know, like while, um, that sounds like the complete opposite of what I just said, but I mean it for like doing standup and like that type of thing. It's like, well,

Starting point is 00:38:40 there's also hit up the same spots. Like, well, there's also a big difference maybe in starting to interrupt, but I just thought that maybe there's a big difference between having habit and routine for training yeah then performing you want to be able to do well in different environments spread it out absolutely yeah absolutely that that yeah training is one thing and when you work that's thank you very much saved me it sounded like a complete it's like you were doing fine but what if i like wait what

Starting point is 00:39:05 no it yeah but but it is that it is that like and and so that was really uh uh useful um surrounding yourself with like-minded people all my friends i'm the thing that i feel luckiest with is like the group of people that i'm around. I really have excellent friends who like care about like making things and creating and like, don't get caught up in trivial things that won't matter tomorrow. Like we don't get caught up in things that don't matter tomorrow. Don't get me wrong. We like new experiences and we like, you having fun but we like work i mean i was at my office uh with friends until six this morning five or six this morning just like just work and it's this is a sunday yeah it's context yeah on saturday night my entire saturday i don't go out really like i

Starting point is 00:40:01 you know like do too much like i you know every now and then but for the most part like just work and my friends think like that you know did you seek them out was it luck how did that happen did you look at the people you met and say all right this guy talks about too much trivial bullshit i'm just gonna have to spend less time with this person how did how did that happen you can kind of see it in certain people you know uh uh one of my best friends uh ari we we both have like such small social lives virtually non-existent social lives that that it just works like we aren't you know we'll go work like right after this i'll go meet up with them and we'll go right. And we enjoy it. It is so fun.

Starting point is 00:40:48 And we don't get like, it's not like when I, if I heard someone talk about like, oh, I want to find a bar to go watch the game at. While that sounds fun and I really, I'm really happy for you. I also know that we're just doing two different things. Two different channels. We're two different channels. Like, it's like, wait, why are we going to find a bar? What?

Starting point is 00:41:06 I mean, watching on your phone in between writing or in between doing what you do, but like, what? Why are you doing that? Have you always had that focus on deep work? Is it because, I mean, it doesn't sound this way, but is it because you were maybe unpopular in school so you spent a lot of time alone?

Starting point is 00:41:24 Like, where do you think that comes from or is it something that your parents really instilled in you um my parents definitely hard workers you know uh uh it was i'm really lucky to be able to do something that i enjoy you know a lot and so focus all my time and energy into that. But, uh, yeah, I like, cause I, again, I like focusing on things that matter. You know, you go into,

Starting point is 00:41:49 um, a nightclub, right? You go to a nightclub. There's a lot of good looking people hanging out. Right. The thing that really changes the energy is when someone who's accomplished something walks in,

Starting point is 00:42:00 right? Like, you know, like you walk in and it's just people that are, there are some people just there to party and there are certain people there as like just a brief escape from doing something and those are the people so i would rather be that guy than just for sure you know you're just gonna hang out spectator yeah spectator like don't be a spectator in life in any capacity like go do something okay so speaking of clubs this is another bullet from evan so he said and this you feel free to refute this okay so evan and his wife

Starting point is 00:42:35 took you to it took you dancing at one point and he said he had never been to a proper dance party before not really yeah this this was in uh in texas we're at south by yeah we're we're in south by and it was like uh uh uh lisa was saying we're gonna go dancing i was like oh really i was like i never really went to just a dance like that type of dance but i had never done it before so we went and just like it was fun it was like it was like really fun i don't think i've been since it was fun i'm waiting for i'm waiting for evan and lisa you know to take me again it was really really fun that's true that's so it's so rare that i like go out and i'm trying right now i'm i haven't done stand-up in a little while i'm trying to try to squeeze in a few more

Starting point is 00:43:22 like like new experiences and things like that like when i can but i find myself getting bored constantly like if i'm not working i get bored evan at least that night was fun yes i need i'm so i feel like i've been cheated on by evan he's never taken me dancing he never took you dancing i mean now he's got a kid oh my god he's true. She's dancing again. May not have much dancing time. But if you were to think of anything that occurs to you as mistakes that novice comedians or stand-up comedians make, what are some common mistakes? People focus on the wrong things. there are a lot of comedians who aren't funny at all or don't have stage presence but have excellent websites you know they have excellent websites and and the shiniest business cards and the headshots are impeccable and who gives a fuck right you know

Starting point is 00:44:21 what i mean like they focus on the wrong things guys if you focus on and we actually just talked about that like if you focus on the work i think that's all it is like just focus on the content focus on exactly what you're putting out if you had to choose three comedians of any type to combine into one super comedian for yourself right now who comes to mind and and why would you pick them understanding that i'm sure you have a lot of influences and there are a lot of incredible funny people out there but just like like current they don't alive or dead oh oh that's interesting uh richard pryor i mean just for being raw not you gotta say richard right he's the the tupac of comedy right you know every list also probably one of my mom's if not favorite comedians top three

Starting point is 00:45:15 yeah yeah yeah he's i mean because he was honest right so richard pryor for honesty um bo burnham he's a friend of mine but i mean it wholeheartedly Bo Burnham because he's one of my favorite people to just watch perform he's such a performer he's he's like you your eyes never move away from him while he's on stage you're always excited and he's one of the most brilliant people i've ever met and oh that's a good one that's a good what's a good that third spot is hard because it's like uh you know lewis black has amazing timing uh ellen draws people in in such a great way ellen generous ellen degenerous is so i i told i did a show and i told i was like you got to do stand-up again she was really good at stand

Starting point is 00:46:09 um oh man that's it doesn't have to be just three i mean you can take yeah i mean i mean like those are yeah those those that are named are great i mean uh you know it's hard to say cosby now to someone without been a slew of other questions but i mean as far as a comedian he was i mean excellent and i mean his rhythm and control over a room was great uh chris rock man it's hard yeah yeah i mean they're like they're like yeah there are a lot of greats out there what in general do you think separates a dave chapelle's obviously you know incredible incredible what separates a good working comedian from a great comedian good from great i think honesty you know and by honesty i mean just like your own truth whatever excites you whatever you're excited to perform or say or or do on stage you know being honest to

Starting point is 00:47:07 that an understanding of perception uh because as a performer you you i mean you have to know how this is coming across right and you have to adjust accordingly because you know sometimes you want to make sure the intention is showing. And sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you think you'd be like, I'm just I get on stage. I'm so, you know, like I'm honest and I'm these things. And it may seem like you're just bullshitting. You know, like you have to be aware of what the audience is seeing, you know? Yeah. And, uh, you know, a business sense, like a good, a sense of realizing that it is the, you know, an industry, you know, it is because a lot of times comedians get frustrated with certain things, but it's like, yeah, that's part of

Starting point is 00:47:58 any business, like, you know, understanding business to a certain extent is really important. I think having an appreciation for it helps too, you know, if you to a certain extent is really important. I think having an appreciation for it helps too. You know, if you can learn to appreciate the, you know, it's hard with art because you want to keep it separate and you want to make something that's pure, but you also want to know how to market it and you also want to know how to, you know, that's really important. It's tough. I mean, and as you pointed out with the shiny business cards and the websites, it's the marketing can turn into a crutch and a tool for procrastinating doing oh yeah work yeah absolutely absolutely you make this thing and then you figure

Starting point is 00:48:34 out all right well how do we how do we get this in the right hands you know how do we make sure the right people see and hear this uh your onstage persona seems, and maybe this will sound strange, but a little darker than your sort of in real life persona. Is that a deliberate decision or is that just how the inner truths come out? It's a certain amount of comfort on stage. I'm in this environment where i can share these thoughts no matter how dark or how weird they may be it's like you know in this lovely setting i wish we see just this in this lovely setting sitting in an outdoor garden with wooden tables with our pomegranate tea sparkling water and blueberries yeah yeah it's it's super delightful and not the place for some of my some of my dark thoughts darkest thoughts and like things that i want to

Starting point is 00:49:31 explore i mean i i'm open to any conversation i actually prefer you know the real or the conversation the better like you know small talk is obviously boring and you don't want to get caught up in that type of thing but but uh on stage i'm just so comfortable sharing you know it's just it's something that kind of clicks and you're just like oh okay this and i suppose that's the environment for it right that's the environment that's where you have the immunity bracelet too yeah as the sort of socially you have certain cautions i'm sorry you have certain cautions and certain things sorry to cut you off, but you have certain cautions and certain things, certain things that you don't want to cross because,

Starting point is 00:50:07 you know, again, in this environment, you don't want to make people uncomfortable and they may not, they didn't sign up for that. Right. But I try and enter a stage with zero fear, zero fear. And just,

Starting point is 00:50:19 yeah, this is, this is what I wanted to say. What do you, so to, to achieve that state of zero fear, I'm sure repetition has a lot to do with it but let's say before your special the first special what did you

Starting point is 00:50:32 what did you say to yourself before getting on stage or what what did your pre-game look like um i tried to keep it on like i'll just honest to any performance, uh, that, that one, I remember just being in the back and I remember there being like a couple, too many people in the green room. You gotta like kind of ask to leave and it just, you just want to think about jokes and like the, you know,

Starting point is 00:50:59 the first tape and I was too aware of the production. And then the, Oh, that same night we, you do two shows. So then the second show, it was just kind of like yeah i'm not i'm not thinking about the production at all like i've just want to think about the material because that's what we wanted to capture so i was in the right space by the second show the first show

Starting point is 00:51:15 i was still kind of a producer you know and i was still cameras and this type of thing and a bit more you know the hands-on and and then the second show i was just so you seem you seem like a very confident guy when do you have self-doubt or can can you remember a point anytime in your life when you had like a particularly dark period or a lot of self-doubt i mean as a kid when you if you don't know exactly who you are, then it leaves room for so many questions. So, and that's self doubt manifesting itself in that form of just questioning everything about you.

Starting point is 00:51:53 And, and, and once you kind of figure that out, so truthfully humor played a big role in that. Like, so I'm, I'm kind of have a similar demeanor, uh,

Starting point is 00:52:04 uh, since the eighth grade, I think since the eighth grade, since discovering that it's kind of have a similar demeanor since the eighth grade. I think since the eighth grade, since discovering that it's kind of been a similar, you know, vibe for me. Just like, you know, I know what I'm good at. I know what my abilities are and anything else I don't really care about. What's your position on writer's block? It's I mean, it's necessary. You know, it's a necessary, it's natural. You can try and get yourself out of it.

Starting point is 00:52:34 You just kind of have to release it. And maybe a lot of times I realize for me, it means that I'm holding on too tight and I'm trying too hard maybe, a certain thing. And I just need to like, let it go. How do you do that? Focus on something else, you know, focus on, focus on something else. And then it'll come to you. There's very, this is a very exciting location. It is very exciting. Oh, there are a lot of people on a balcony. Yeah, there are a lot of people jumping around and screaming on a balcony and it looks there are. Yeah. A lot of people jumping around across the street.

Starting point is 00:53:05 And they're screaming on a balcony. And it looks like it's going to end horrible. A man just skated out on a balcony. Oh, it's going to end very bad. Yeah, there's a lot of excitement here. Or not. Or it's someone's birthday. I don't know why I immediately went to a negative.

Starting point is 00:53:19 There's no way this ends good. There's no way. Oh, there's definitely domestic abuse going on in there. You got someone. I mean, if you see something, say something. But I'm saying something. I see a poodle, and it looks like it's on the edge of the precipice. But so much going on in Los Angeles today.

Starting point is 00:53:37 What types of things do you shift your focus to when you're trying to let go? Does that mean you go bowling? Does that mean you watch a movie? A lot of lot of times yeah i like taking in other content you know so maybe watch a movie watch something that's interesting read a book uh go on a walk i haven't been walking as much as i used i used to walk around all the time i did the other night in the rain it was one of the greatest nights ever i just like walked around in the rain for like two hours and listen to marvin go that sounds amazing what precipitated that it was raining and i had two hours i had two hours free it was late i was i should have been asleep but i was like oh it's raining i was leaving uh dinner and i was like oh i'm just gonna go on a

Starting point is 00:54:20 walk i was like i was on my way back to my place and uh i was like no i'm just gonna go on a walk i was like i was on my way back to my place and uh i was like no i'm just gonna go on a walk and and i didn't think it was gonna be that long but it was like two hours in the rain the hood off kept the hood off just let it yeah it was great why did you decide to keep the hood off i just wanted to experience the rain i like it it was right you know like i was like i don't want i don't want to it's like if i'm gonna be in the rain i'm gonna be in the rain right you know if you gotta do it don't deny the experience don't deny the experience like uh so i just walked around it was great you mentioned books do you uh do you like to read it's fun it's really fun i like i like biographies and i like uh uh you i'd never been a guy that got into novels and we were talking about

Starting point is 00:55:05 science fiction books earlier because I always liked information I was like I want information and then I'll create a thing but I just want information but I read the book The Sellout The Sellout?

Starting point is 00:55:19 Yeah The Language It reminds me of language yeah of um it reminds me of like language-wise of like confederacy of dances it's like the language is so good it's so they're sent i i literally was like driving around repeating like sentences from the book just over and it's so good how did you choose the sellout was it recommended to you or yeah a friend of mine recommended it to me and it just won i mean i'm sure i'm sure a lot of people have read it uh it won i can't remember the like the booker prize the booker prize it won the booker

Starting point is 00:55:57 prize yeah uh but a friend of mine recommended it to me, and the language in it is, I mean, the language excites me, you know, because it's so well written. Crafted. So well crafted. Yeah. You know, it's these lines that you just, I wish I could think of. You mentioned Malcolm X. Are there any other autobiographies or biographies that uh you could recommend i wish i remember uh who wrote it but i read the uh humphrey bogart uh biography that that i love god i'm wish i knew

Starting point is 00:56:36 the author i can look it up and i'll put it in the show notes for folks yeah and and his his story is so interesting and just like him kind of starting so late you know like or getting the recognition so late but but like any good thing like we found a man who knew who he was by the time he achieved stardom he knew exactly who he was so so if if you were talking to someone because this has come up a few times who had the self-doubt because everything was open to question they hadn't discovered something like comedy early on how would you suggest they learn who they are sit alone be alone sit in silence you know what i mean like like and not just saying like some you know shaman-esque experience where someone will just sit, like sit and think, go, like, go on, like, get to know yourself and be honest with your, like, the responses that you have, you know, mostly into things like know what you good at, have an honest assessment of yourself, honest assessment of your life and know what you're good at and know where you can contribute the most. Find out where you can contribute because it's not always through work.

Starting point is 00:57:49 You know, like a lot of people, sometimes people make the mistake of like thinking it's always through what you, you won't always have necessarily that career, but your life can be fulfilled and you can contribute in a meaningful way, you know, to those around you, to, you know, your environment. So just try and contribute. Well, I think the, what you said just before that also is really important. And that is being aware of how you emotionally respond to things. Yeah. Because I think a lot, and I did this for a long time. I learned how to mute that because I was trying to be so hyper analytical that I didn't pay attention to my visceral response to things. And that is this massive computing power of the subconscious that is telling you something. And I learned to override it for so long. And I only really in the

Starting point is 00:58:36 last few years have felt very comfortable in my own skin. It's because I've started to, I think, in part, pay a lot more attention to that. If I'm sitting with someone and the deal they're pitching sounds great, but I just feel off around them, a lot more attention to that if i'm sitting with someone and the deal they're pitching sounds great but i just feel off around them yeah i pay more attention to that now you because this is someone that you're going to work with a lot you know like you're going to have a lot of interactions with and if something is off if it's just not right then then it something's gonna go wrong. Yeah. You know, like it's going to hit, that feeling is going to be addressed either immediately or it's going to be delayed. And I'd rather address it now.

Starting point is 00:59:14 Up front. And avoid, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Avoid like a disaster. Yeah. A 10X compounded disaster later. Exactly. And it took me a long time to learn that a good contract doesn't make a good relationship.

Starting point is 00:59:29 At all. At all. At all. It's basically just, this is what happens if we get a divorce, but it doesn't ensure you're going to have a good marriage. It doesn't ensure a good marriage. When you hear the word successful, to you, who comes to mind? Oh, man. Jay-Z, Steve Jobs, Jerry Seinfeld, Oprah.

Starting point is 00:59:54 All good names, all well-known names. Is there any particular commonality for you? Honesty. They're themselves. They're very unapologetic about being themselves that's pretty much it and they've found a way to let that come out in an

Starting point is 01:00:14 artful way like through their work or their art and their careers like they found a way to to build a career around them as opposed to you know bending themselves what they perceive as a career around them as opposed to, you know, bending themselves. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:00:27 What they perceive as a career. Exactly. So those are the, yeah. I don't know if you're much of a gift giver, but do you give books or anything else to people as gifts? Like what are your go-to gifts? If I'm excited about anything,

Starting point is 01:00:39 then I try and share it with everybody in my life. Immediately. If I go to a new restaurant and I love it, all of my friends have gone there with me at some point I'm bringing, I'm bringing everybody. I need you to share it. I need, and I also want to talk about it with you. You know, I want to have an exchange. I want to like analyze it. I love that. That's what I live for. So like, if I love a book, then I, I send it, I send it to everybody. What is the last book or any books that come to mind that you've done that

Starting point is 01:01:11 with? What's the last book that I sent to everybody was, uh, there was this, there was this book by Eric Butterworth, uh, uh, discover the power within you that kind of interpreted the Bible in a, in a interesting way, uh, to me and the way that I feel like I always knew and understood it, you know, or the way I want it to understand it. And it articulated it in such a, a great way that I was like,

Starting point is 01:01:35 everybody really religious, not religious. It, it's, it's really good about discovering self about answers being within about that. Eric Butterworth, Eric Butterworth, his name makes you want waffles,

Starting point is 01:01:49 right? Or like, it does. Yeah, it does. Now, especially since you've now said it now, I really want,

Starting point is 01:01:56 yeah. Uh, do you remember the title or I can find the title? Yeah. Discover the power within you. I don't like the title. Yeah. So,

Starting point is 01:02:03 you know, yeah, sure. Just put it out there. It's very literal. It's a bit on the nose. It's a bit on the nose. Nothing else. I guess it's good. I mean, you know, there are no unanswered questions in that title. But I sent it to everybody. everybody i mean atheist friends got that book you know what i like about like that book people i noticed what people the people who got it and the people who didn't it was like accepting certain truths sound really cheesy yeah right and if you can get people won't allow themselves to accept it like like certain, you know, that you are what you think get beyond right that and just accept it and don't make yourself feel guilty about it sure i really think it like a lot of principles in it can change

Starting point is 01:03:13 your life i it makes me think of a guest i had on some time ago shea carl who's a huge uh youtube celebrity is i think close to three billion views now sane and he's also very atypical youtube star in the sense that it's the shaytards it's it's uh it's shay and his family bunch of kids in utah and so it's not the typical fast cut, you know, 18 year old making videos for 12 year old setup. It's very atypical in that sense. But he said whenever, and again, paraphrasing, but roughly when you hear a cliche, pay attention because a truth is being told. And I'm not sure that's true of all cliches. I don't think it is.

Starting point is 01:04:03 But I've come to appreciate things that i always disregarded because i heard them too often like water under the bridge don't cry over spilt milk yes you you learn to turn off your interpretation of that you just disregard it disregard it and you're looking for well what's the real answer it's like no no that's actually really deep yeah if you think about it things that your fourth grade teacher told you yeah kind of true yeah oh wait i can be anything yeah it's hard to accept because the world just jades you and it makes you what is the world doing us if you had to give say ted talk about something you're not known for. So it can't be comedy, probably can't be television, can't be writing. What would you, what topic would you choose?

Starting point is 01:04:52 Choosing the right friends. Like I think that like choosing the right people to be around that will spark certain things within you and knowing how you can use each other, you know, and how you can contribute to each other's lives. I think I could. So this is, this is such an important topic for people listening who say, yes, I want to learn more about this. Is there, is there some recommendation or an exercise or an action step or something I should do more of or less of? Is there an action that you could recommend? Don't disregard, don't dismiss anyone, right? Actually look, this is going to sound so cheesy, right?

Starting point is 01:05:36 But there's a thing. You've already given them the cat. I've already, yeah. So at my best, I do this exercise. And I could have read this somewhere. I'm not even saying that I've made this up. I think I did. And I could have read this somewhere. I'm not even saying that I've made this up. I think I did, but I may have read it somewhere. So my apologies.

Starting point is 01:05:50 But it's like I pretend I'm at the bottom of a well. And every face that I see, I imagine them being the face that peers over inside and has the ability to help me. And like rescue me from something. And it makes you look at every, everyone looks, first of all, amazing when you're at the bottom of the well and everyone looks in and, and,

Starting point is 01:06:15 and in that, that's like just an exercise for just people in general. But it really means that everyone does have an ability to give something to you and just kind of looking for that and searching for that first right in people oh it helps tremendously i love that yeah that's a really visual yeah exercise for me which helps too i'm just very visually hardwired you see it you if you do that like i was uh like outside a movie theater and I was doing it once and just everyone looked. Everyone was glowing.

Starting point is 01:06:48 You know, like everyone was just like, oh, man, you. Thank you. Thank God for you. I'm so happy you're here. Outside a movie theater, were you waiting for someone or were you just. I was loitering. Loitering. Literally loitering outside of a movie theater.

Starting point is 01:07:04 Like years ago, I was like, I left the movie and I was just sitting outside of it loitering. Just kind of thinking. Just sitting with yourself. Being a weirdo. Being a guy who clearly doesn't have a girlfriend. What is bad advice that is given out frequently in your world and you can define and you and you can pick any world that you're involved with anything that begins with you gotta yeah you ain't gotta do anything like you got oh in my world where do i begin it's mostly it's

Starting point is 01:07:41 99.9 bad advice yeah and and it's such a new scary world like especially entering into comedy or television or film and you're looking for answers yeah you know you're trying to figure it out but nobody knows what they're doing nobody knows what they're talking about everyone's making it up you know and it's a lot of times it's the people can only tell you what works for them and maybe that applies to you know, like as far as technical things, like maybe that applies to you. Maybe it doesn't. So even just like, I don't know, the worst thing is just like looking for it. It's probably like looking for like advice.

Starting point is 01:08:16 Just don't don't listen to anybody. Or if you're looking for advice and it starts with you gotta. You gotta see. See, when you have you gotta like it's's usually people aren't where they want to be. Yeah. The person who just readily hands out advice is usually not where they want to be. You know, like busy people aren't just around in the back telling you what you gotta do next. Although if someone finds you loitering in front of a movie theater.

Starting point is 01:08:44 Yeah, yeah. I may be, you know you know available for advice i like to think i loiter the way socrates does but we all like to think the best of ourselves oh man uh what is your favorite or do you have any favorite failures meaning a failure or something that was perceived as a failure by you or other people that ended up setting the stage for greater success i uh i i did uh they had this comedy showcase in san diego years ago it was just starting off and it was the nbc diversity showcase. And I should have never done that.

Starting point is 01:09:29 Should have never gone down. I went down to, I didn't make it to the final round. Mind you, thank God. Oh my God. It could have ended horribly. Cause if I had,

Starting point is 01:09:37 had I, had I made it to the final round, I would not have a show on NBC. Why do you say that? Because it would, they would have put me in a box. I'm the, the little, the diversity kid.

Starting point is 01:09:47 Yeah. The diversity champion. I would, it's like, like when I'm like miss America, like, whatever, I'm going to go around and like,

Starting point is 01:09:54 yeah, that's your, that it's immediately like a box that you're in. I'm so thankful. I didn't like, and it's really just a thing that people do to feel good about, don't feel good about themselves like the corporations do to feel good about themselves you know like i'm so thankful i i call that one of my biggest mistakes don't even going i'm so thankful that i didn't make it to the final round of that because it would have ruined everything like like seeking seeking

Starting point is 01:10:25 seeking any shortcut or easy answer is always a mistake you know the pyramid scheme of it all scheme of comedy of comedy yeah yeah like like so so i'm really happy i did that because it made me ignore anything that could be remotely like i would for me personally and i'm not because people have benefited from this and have turned into lucrative amazing careers but for me personally like any i would never do any type of reality competition type no i wouldn't like i just would i always refused that and like the closest i came was like within my first year doing that how do you walk and maybe it's not a fine line but i i'm sure people think about this how do you establish a

Starting point is 01:11:11 unique style yourself without getting pigeonholed listen to yourself yeah Listen to what you want to do. And if you don't want to do it anymore, stop. Change, you know, like grow, change, evolve. You are unique.

Starting point is 01:11:32 You know, the only, the most unique thing you can do is be yourself. Yeah. You know, this is, God, I sound like a real substitute teacher right now.

Starting point is 01:11:43 A real substitute teacher. No, but it's true. Who is it? Groucho Marx or Oscar Wilde? I always confuse those two no but it's true who is it groucho marx or oscar wilde i always confuse those two but it's like be yourself everybody else is taken everybody else is taken that's yeah it's a perfect way of saying it like that's and if you want to sound like a substitute teacher i'll just sound like a fortune cookie or like the back page of a newspaper that's full of quotes but also you mentioned something earlier which was the people the people who matter don't mind and dr seuss has a great quote which is that the the the people who

Starting point is 01:12:09 mind don't matter and the people who matter don't mind yes yes exactly it really dr seuss got it yeah dr seuss had a lot to him yeah yeah that guy was oh man i went uh i i like i will go on stage and you, you see a lot. What's interesting about comedy is that you get to see a lot of immediate examples of what you're doing. Like, like just like a, it's like, um, you mean in terms of immediate feedback? Well, not even, not even feedback, but like the, the, the competition type of thing. Like, like if you're in the, like uh and maybe in a tech world like some type of

Starting point is 01:12:45 expo you know like where you get to see what other people are doing right with comedy that's every night every night there's a new you know it's it's a new showcase like the 3e or not three what's the electronics expo whatever oh ces ces and all that type of stuff in the you know it's like comic-con every night you know like you're just seeing what everybody's doing. Right. And, and so you get to, you get to know where you are in context of your world, uh, pretty quickly. Well, especially if you've chosen to put yourself in a place like LA. Yes. That's why it's important for me. That's why it was important. And to some people, I mean, it's good. I mean, I'm sure you could find immediately a story that is like, well, this guy was in, you know, Kansas and did all right for himself. But like, I really think that knowing where you fit in in context, like if, you know, doing a television show, I watch all the television shows, doing of watching every film especially current

Starting point is 01:13:45 like because you want to know where you fit and cut you want to know where you fit in in history and you want to know where you fit in the current landscape so it's important to be informed you know for me again I do for me it is you know I like to know so when you moved out here to do comedy did you have in your mind any backup plan like if the comedy doesn't work out or I'm going to give myself six months or any type of thinking along the lines. No plan B for me. I mean, I had an aunt who, uh, the closest I came to a plan B was that I was in LA for a little bit and I have

Starting point is 01:14:16 an aunt in New York that I was like, well, if it doesn't work for some reason here and I'm just homeless, then I'll go stay with her, you know? No, that's, I mean, that's a plan B stay with her you know no that's i mean that's a plan b right i mean that's a but it's a mentally you had it was you de-risked it de-risked it for yourself in a way yeah but really that was even like a that was a long shot to make right you know like and i would have been just gone to new york and done the exact same thing that i'm doing here right you know like so it was kind of just another route to plan A for me.

Starting point is 01:14:47 That's a good point. That's a really good point. I didn't think about that. Yeah, it was, I was just, so that was the closest to a B. It was like a, it was like an A.5. Just taking another lap around the track. Yeah, what's the, yeah, exactly. It's like, all right, well, because I was just here just doing standup.

Starting point is 01:15:02 And I was like, well, and that was purely a logistic thing where I was like, well, if I can't, like, I just literally can't sleep on the street, I guess. Frowned upon. Which I would have been, truthfully, I would have been cool with for a little while. Like, thank God I didn't have to, but I would have been cool with that. I loved it. I loved doing comedy. So I would have just gone to New York and just stayed there. If for whatever reason at some point you stopped liking comedy, let's just say,

Starting point is 01:15:32 but you need to keep yourself busy, what would you do instead? I'd take an educated swing at something else. I don't know. I'd just stop liking comedy. Or you were like, you know what? I've been doing this for, let's say, down liking comedy or you were like you know what i've been doing this for let's say down the road you're like 20 years 30 years in okay i just need a gear shift for a little bit to come back to this fresh uh i don't know i'll probably do some weird artist stuff go like you know be like bob dylan start painting you you know what I mean? You know, like just like, uh,

Starting point is 01:16:05 uh, record some songs in a, in a nice basement, uh, release it under an alias, that type of stuff. Like, uh,

Starting point is 01:16:15 it's probably something creative or, or, or something like really specific or just substitute teach for a little bit. You know, I just see what the, yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:16:25 All right. Well, hopefully you'll be in love with the company for a very long you know i just see what the yeah i don't know i don't know all right well hopefully you'll be in love with comedy for a very long time to come if you had a huge billboard you could put any short message on it or an image non-commercial just to get something out to the world what would you put on it oh wow i mean come on man that's a great give me a second you're gonna have to edit out a long pause oh oh that's i like the pauses i'll let the silence do the work on this one oh man oh this is i mean yeah this is really this is genuinely hot because you're like probably don't listen to anybody don't listen to anybody Because you're like, probably don't listen to anybody. Don't listen to anybody. Yeah. And obviously that comes with the, obviously you'll collaborate with people and you'll be so inspired by others and their people that you'll work with. But what I mean is just like, anything that directs you away from you, ignore it.

Starting point is 01:17:25 Or anything that starts with you gotta. Anything that starts with you gotta. You ain't gotta do anything, man. Just bad grammar. I have to use bad grammar. You ain't gotta do nothing. All right. So there are two things from Evan

Starting point is 01:17:45 that I wanted to make sure I hit. Yeah. So the first one, maybe we may not explore for very long. The last point he said was he has an eight-foot penis. So did that come about because of the scene in Neighbors? That for those who haven't seen the film. i uh i don't know where that came from i genuinely don't know it may be a thing he may have said to me uh i never thought i would have to clear that rumor up it's not that long that's that's uncalled that's that's the other the other direction of like when what girl's gonna want to sleep with me when you have to coil it around your waist like that just sounds

Starting point is 01:18:28 cumbersome okay i think you probably didn't expect me to bring that podcast but i'm trying and watch is gonna hit me like in the car later oh wait oh that's what he meant by that i'm wondering if it's something else we can do a postscript yeah exactly we can have it run on the credits all right so So the, the, the point that I think we might be able to unpack a little bit more is he's mentioned that, and you,

Starting point is 01:18:52 you talked about the newspaper earlier and I guess it was Kwame. Is that his name? Yeah. Yep. Who got you, who got you reading the paper that you can read something say in the newspaper and then use it somehow on stage that night. And, uh, what helps you to do that or how do you kind of be in tune with your your feelings you know and your and your thoughts and

Starting point is 01:19:15 how and your true feelings like i i will say a lot of times i'll um i'll i'll be able to like, say a joke the first time. And it's kind of a finished product. You know, like I'll say there was a thing that was like online, just me talking about Chick-fil-A. That was virtually my first time doing that joke. I think I'd like maybe mentioned it the night before, but it was like the first time it just sounds like a finished product because it's like oh no i know how i feel about this i know what i want to say in the points i want to hit and then you say it and then that's it so i think it is just like kind of being into if you're in tune things come out a little bit you know easier do you is there anything in your creative process for developing material that is unusual when you when you describe it to other stand-up comedians or other people

Starting point is 01:20:11 it's a good question i mean yeah i wonder what's unusual about it because they're i mean i think i ignore a lot of things that people don't like meaning like industry industry stuff and, you know, like things that I think things that matter to a lot of comedians don't necessarily matter to me. Or I realize that focus is kind of going back to what we said earlier, like focusing on just myself in the work gets that thing that, you know, so I, I think I ignore more things than like a lot of comedians. Have you, what helps you to do that? Do you say anything to yourself in particular? Is that just hardwiring? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's both emotional and, and logical to me. Like, you know, emotionally it's just like, well, if, if I don't think that I can, if I don't think this is meaningful,

Starting point is 01:21:05 then I'll cut it out of my life. And logically, if you look at history, you'll see the things that fall out and you'll see, you can read this. That's why I like reading biography. You see, you read about people's mistakes and read about the things that ultimately didn't matter. So it's like, I don't want to focus any energy on anything that doesn't matter or won't matter right yeah the distractions of life yeah the distractions of life yeah i mean that's probably like that's yeah that's probably why i'm not like and also that is a personal thing because it for instance there we were talking about like social media right and certain people are great and a source of you know uh inspiration and a source of like great content on social media for me, I don't, it doesn't contribute to my life in a meaningful way. So I don't do it.

Starting point is 01:21:52 Yeah. Yeah. This is going to, this is a left turn, but all of these are left turns. So I guess we're just going in a square kind of counterclockwise. Anyway, uh, what is the, what purchase of say less than $100, but just any purchase really is fine that has had the most positive impact on your life in recent memory? Probably ever like a notebook. Notebook? A notebook and pens, like just write. And I don't even write out jokes, but I write out thoughts. What type of notebook?

Starting point is 01:22:24 Goals and thoughts. Goals and thoughts. Goals and thoughts. Yeah. Do you have a particular type of notebook that you like? I mean, my grandma would get me some for like, of course, these little small pocket size one, the little, but really any notebook will do. Just any like notebook. That and the Bolognese at John and Vinny's are the two most impactful. The Bolognese at John and Vinny's. Yeah, the Bolognese at john and vinnie's are the two most impactful the

Starting point is 01:22:46 bolognese at john and vinnie's at uh john and vinnie's uh and notebooks what types of thoughts do you write down because we all have a million plus thoughts a day what types of things do you write down? Really anything that, like anything that sticks out, how I feel about people, how I feel about me, what I want, what I just like anything that's like worth just kind of journaling. Essentially.

Starting point is 01:23:15 It seems to have a strong, it seems to tie back a lot to what you were mentioning earlier, which is your emotional response to different things. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what my emotional response. It's like capture i want to know because you see it if you look at it and if you write down a goal like you have this image now in your head it's not just this floating thought it's an image that you have in your head

Starting point is 01:23:36 what types of goals would you write down um i'll write down really like general and like specific things. Can you give any examples? I mean, Spencer's like really the, the two first career goals. I remember, um, I wrote down that I wanted,

Starting point is 01:23:54 uh, my first time doing standup on television to be HBO and I wanted a show on NBC. I remember writing like that. Those are very broad goals, but, but I wrote down specifically like the HBO thing and actually as I was uh like just doing stand-up and going over like old thoughts like

Starting point is 01:24:10 preparing for the first special I actually grabbed an old notebook and the one I didn't realize I written it in and the night before we taped and I kind of like opened and I turned the page and there it was like the goal like HBO special now did you write it down once and there it was like the goal like hbo special now did you write it down once and then it was embedded for years i can still tell you exactly how it was written on the page it's like i skipped a few lines it was hbo's written in big letters and then i wrote like like you know just a couple sentences about how i wanted to look and feel documentary is written down so i wanted it to be a documentary and like specific like ideas about it same thing for the neck we just did a i just taped another special and same thing same pay i like the word

Starting point is 01:24:51 invasive invasive i wanted it invasive i wanted it emotionally honest i wanted it to go past just jokes and i didn't want to just tell you jokes you know and i wanted it just to be real and a you know exploration like these certain words that i think you know and i wanted it just to be real and a you know exploration like these certain words that i think you know is captured i mean uh bold director and it's like really i think he's brilliant and he captured it so perfectly but yeah these really personal things well i think you are one of the most uh honest and dangerous in the best way possible comedians out there today. I really enjoy your work. Do you have any parting thoughts, comments, requests of the

Starting point is 01:25:30 people listening? And then I'll ask you where people can find you and everything you're up to. No, I mean, no. Try the bolognese at John and Finny's. Try the bolognese. And then I'm going to try, and I'd recommend people try the face at the top of the well exercise.

Starting point is 01:25:49 Oh. I like that. That's perfect. You plugged it for me. That's my job. I really want to see if I created it or stole it from someone. I genuinely don't know. I'm sure someone out there will be able to figure that out.

Starting point is 01:26:04 No, no. I was doing I was doing Face at the Top of Wealth for 30 years like someone's gonna stay on soap yeah I don't know

Starting point is 01:26:10 we find out it's like in the towel to change it might be you know I mean everything that is old is once new again but

Starting point is 01:26:18 this has been a lot of fun man I really appreciate it this is awesome man yeah and what a great environment all sorts of weirdness we have a we have a wooden man. I really appreciate it. This is awesome, man. Yeah. And what a great environment. All sorts of weirdness. We have a wooden horse to the left of us. Yeah, it is.

Starting point is 01:26:31 It's like a retired merry-go-round horse. It's like it retired here. There's a lot happening right now. And I want to let you get back to your day. Where can people find you, what you're up to? What can they check out? Where should they start? Anything you want to let you get back to your day. Where can people find you? What you're up to? What can they check out? Where should they start? Anything you want to tell them.

Starting point is 01:26:49 Be around, man. That's kind of the truth. Maybe loitering outside a movie theater. Probably walking around LA or New York. Website, social? Nah. Nah. All right.

Starting point is 01:27:03 I'm going to sneak it into the show notes for people interested. It's there. They can find you. Yeah, I'm around. I'm around. I'll see you guys. How the hell did you find this podcast? Say hi.

Starting point is 01:27:17 Alright guys, I will put links to everything we've talked about in the show notes as per usual. And you can find those notes, links links as well as every other episode at fourhourworkweek.com forward slash podcast, all spelled out fourhourworkweek.com forward slash podcast. And until next time, thank you for listening. Thank you, man.

Starting point is 01:27:37 Thank you, sir. Love around too soon. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the

Starting point is 01:27:56 weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the, the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance,

Starting point is 01:28:21 and it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it.

Pet Camera - EBO Air 2

The Tim Ferriss Show - #222: Jerrod Carmichael - Uber-Productivity and Dangerous Comedy

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.

Your Ad Here

Pet Camera - EBO Air 2

The Tim Ferriss Show - #222: Jerrod Carmichael - Uber-Productivity and Dangerous Comedy

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.