The Tim Ferriss Show - #251: How to Live Without Limits - Kyle Maynard

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Starting point is 00:03:15 This episode features Kyle Maynard, and you're going to want to check him out, I promise. And on Twitter, you can say hello, at Kyle Maynard, K-Y-L-E-M-A-Y-N-A-R-D. People often ask me, who inspires you? Who do you look up to? One immediate answer is Kyle Maynard. Despite being born without full arms or legs, he has gone on to achieve feats of athleticism and much more that most people would only dream of. They might not even think of dreaming of these things. This includes being the first quadruple amputee to climb Mount Kilimanjaro without the aid of prosthetics, being inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame, as in collegiate wrestling, believe it, and competing professionally in mixed martial arts. He is just a phenom. And we actually had a chance to

Starting point is 00:04:07 do a short wrestling demo with takedowns that almost broke my knee and then an arm throw on video, which you can see. And in this episode, we cover many stories that Kyle has never discussed or shared publicly before. The audio comes from my new TV show, Fearless, and that is Fear Less with less in parentheses, because it's about learning to fear less, where I interview worthless performers on stage about how they've overcome doubt, conquered fear, and made some of their toughest decisions. You can watch the entire first episode with David Blaine, the illusionist and endurance artist for free at att.net forward slash fearless. Again, that's att.net forward slash fearless. And to watch all of the episodes, there are 10 of them, including the episode with

Starting point is 00:04:51 Kyle, please visit direct TV now. So you can just Google direct TV now, direct TV with one T. So not direct TV, but direct TV. We recorded three hours of material and only one hour was used for the TV show. This podcast episode is almost entirely new content that did not appear on television. So I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. So without further ado, here is the incredible Kyle Maynard. Welcome to Fearless. I'm your host, Tim Ferriss. And on this stage, we'll be deconstructing world-class performers of all types to uncover the specific tactics they've used to overcome doubt, tackle hard decisions, and ultimately succeed on their own terms.

Starting point is 00:05:36 My guest tonight is a member of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame, New York Times best-selling author, and has summited Mount Kilimanjaro, among others. He inspires audiences around the world with his message, and he conquers challenges with his own unique style. Please welcome to the stage athlete, author, and mountaineer, Kyle Maynard. Thank you. All right, Dennis. What's up? A little around the world.

Starting point is 00:06:10 What's up, everybody? How's it going? Boom. How many siblings do you have? Three sisters. Three sisters. Yeah, what doesn't kill you? Yeah. I grew up with one

Starting point is 00:06:30 little brother, so I was the bastard in that relationship. I'm the like, I need to try this wrestling move on you. Like, running around the house, don't run away. I know this is gonna be fun. I was on the inflicting side, unfortunately. There are a lot of grown men I'd rather fight than my sisters.

Starting point is 00:06:46 Your dad seems like a tough dude. Not a bad dude, but like tough, former wrestler. I'm sure he's loving that right now. He did flip it at 20, so in fairness. But how were your parents' parenting styles different? There was a difference for sure. And I think it was a good balance. Wrestling, my dad was like, he wanted me to be the finesse wrestler, you know?

Starting point is 00:07:11 And my mom was like, she told me, if you put somebody in enough pain on the mat with you, like they'll find a way to get out. They'll find a way to get off the mat. And like that was, she was like, had this like tenacity. That's like a Cobra Kai. Right, exactly, totally. Take the leg. It was.

Starting point is 00:07:29 What, mom? Thanks, mom. When did your grandparents enter the picture in terms of your close relationship with them? Like hours after I was born. Yeah, they were there the whole time. And what was your relationship like with your, with your grandparents? I mean, it's been the best without them. I mean, they were everything to me, you know, I got to like choke back the tears sometimes this, I mean, my grandma, so she

Starting point is 00:07:54 passed last year and it was really like a big moment for me in terms of, um, kind of like that awakener of like, what is my life about really, you know, my grandma, you know, um, you know, so she kind of said this, you know, from her experiences, you know, in a, in a, like a religious background, but I think it can be sort of even like a more universal sense. If you apply this, like she said that Kyle, like God doesn't make mistakes, you know, like, and I take that to go and mean to even like the universe doesn't make mistakes, right. That there, and, and whether or not that's true, it doesn't matter, but it's an interesting place to come from, right? The Stoics talked a lot about fate and how we're on this path

Starting point is 00:08:30 and this trajectory and whether or not that's true, it doesn't really matter. But if we go and act as if it's so and that things are as they should be, it's just a better place to be, I think. I used to pray every night when I was I was a kid, like I would just like wait, wish that I could wake up and have arms and legs, you know? And if I had spent my entire life focused on that, it would have been a different life. Yeah, definitely. But she was everything. I mean, she, she, I think that the most powerful lesson that she ever taught me was we used to go

Starting point is 00:09:03 around in grocery stores together, just up and down the aisles of the grocery store. And sometimes, you know, when, um, we would meet people, I mean, she would just, she would teach me, says, as soon as people hear your voice and they see your face and they shake your hand, they'll totally forget about the disability. And, you know, it's like a embedded, like hypnotic command almost, you know, it's like, that's like so much of my life has been colored by that. And everybody that I meet now, you know, it's like an embedded, like, hypnotic command almost. You know, it's like that's like so much of my life has been colored by that. And everybody that I meet now, you know, I want to meet them. And then 15 minutes after, it's not really the disability. It's not like that big of a deal.

Starting point is 00:09:35 Yeah. So she was, yeah. Grandma Betty. But now I can, it's kind of funny too because because like I can read people's eyes in terms of like, you know, almost like you can see like subtitles scrolling across sometimes, right? I go to like shake somebody's hand and 99% of the time I get a normal handshake back or whatever, fist bump, you know. And then like at that 1% of the time or less, maybe one out of a couple hundred, I see this like just fear and panic, right? You go to shake their hand and they're like, pause.

Starting point is 00:10:04 And it's like, guy doesn't have an arm. What is it you wanted me to do? Oh my God. I just hang out and wait. They come in for like an awkward elbow bump or something like, like, thanks, bro. That was awesome. It was really cool. I like how you process that. Good work. What about your grandfather? My grandpa, for one, super smart, and I did not inherit those genes. I mean, like, super smart. He was valedictorian at University of Illinois as an engineer. With his mindset, him and my dad, my dad was an engineer as well, and they really were just great at being able to figure out ways to be able to go and adapt different things, you know, and like the actual tools of what would be helpful.

Starting point is 00:10:53 Problem solvers. Yeah, totally, man. I didn't learn to swim, believe it or not, until I was in my 30s. When did you learn to swim? I was on, it's funny, I was on Howard Stern and he called my dad a dick for this. But my dad basically put me in the middle of the pool, taught me how to float on my back. And as soon as he thought that I was, like, good and I got it,

Starting point is 00:11:15 then he got out of the pool. And he was like, now figure out how to get out. So we immediately started crying straight to the bottom of the pool, right? But, you know, kind of, yeah, I was like probably four years old, something like that, three or four. Wow. Was the writing, if you had writing, eating, swimming, what was the most difficult of those?

Starting point is 00:11:42 And is there something else that I'm missing aside from asking girls out that was particularly difficult for you? The physical stuff was less taxing to kind of like figure out. I kind of had this idea, this belief like, you know, that there would always be a way, there'd be some tool. Driving in particular was a little bit trickier. You know, I was a little bit older because it was, I want to be in terms of like the adaptations and equipment that I use a lot more sort of Spartan, right? Like I want things to be very simple, very mechanical, like very little, you know, few points of failure. And, um, the first vehicle that, um, this group, an amazing group that helps people with spinal injuries in Atlanta wanted to go and help have me drive is this massive, this massive Ford van. And it was like this huge thing with like, um,

Starting point is 00:12:24 it was like, I had these touchscreen computers, but this is back in like 2002 or three. Right. And so he's like touchscreen computers and like joystick for the, you know, gas, the break. And I'm like, Oh my, this is crazy. Right. And I'm driving in like tiny lanes in Atlanta rush hour traffic with this like giant death trap. Like it was just this tank that's going down barely down the highway and i'm like i know never again i'm not doing that again you know like not control deleting on the freaking highway like there's no way and like so i just yeah literally right jack but now i mean and so they have pedals that drive just like an SUV, and it's just got basically lifted up and extended pedals.

Starting point is 00:13:09 It's very simple. You pop into my car and drive it, and it's like, just put your legs underneath it, and use my left foot to hit the brake and my right foot to hit the gas and grab a steering wheel with my arms. And my mountain guide friend, actually, who's done some pretty scary things, like climbed Everest and stuff, said that like one of the scariest moments of his life was when he's driving me for the first time. And I grabbed my phone to like answer it while we're driving.

Starting point is 00:13:34 I got like the Bluetooth thing going now. I want to talk a little bit about Cub Scouts. Just in general. Just forget all these people. I want to talk about the Cub Sc Cub Scouts. Just in general. Just forget all these people. I want to talk about the Cub Scouts. Should I join? No. I read a story about a cave.

Starting point is 00:13:53 Can you talk a little bit about your experience? Yeah. I think this is like where I found my environment. I found my homeland. I was like Gimli in Lord of the Rings or something. I mean, in a subterranean environment, i realized it was like this great equalizer so we went to this cave in indiana as in the boy scouts we had my dad my grandpa were there and um you know so you got to crawl through these like tunnels and you know right and it's like these tiny wet cave tunnels

Starting point is 00:14:22 and i was like awesome like just sprinted past everybody, right? Like, this is great. I don't know why it's so hard for everyone, but. What drove you to the athletics and what, what came first? I guess the street hockey, was that sort of the first competitive sport? I don't know. Yeah, I didn't. So the first like, team sport that I played was, was football and then wrestling. But it was like, I always had this interest in, in sports. I was obsessed, you know, and had this delusion of like, you know, I'd be in the NBA someday or like, you know, I'd be like, you know, I was big Atlanta Braves fan and like John Smoltz or Greg Maddox, like

Starting point is 00:15:01 throwing fastballs and, you know, change-ups and stuff. And I think the really cool thing was, is that my parents did let me have this, like, have this dream. They didn't, like, squelch it. My mom was a little bit more pragmatic, I think. So, when I did go to play football, you know, she was telling me that, you know, you might be the, like, you might be the water boy on the team, but they're going to find a place for you. And in my head, like I said, you know, I want to be the quarterback. I want to be throwing the spiral touchdowns. And it was interesting how those dreams, they didn't, like, and as you kind of, I'm sure as you know, you can relate, right? Like the dreams that you may have had at a certain point, they didn't manifest

Starting point is 00:15:31 exactly how you saw them go, but it set you on this path and this journey that then takes you down other turns and corridors and you go into other directions that you never would have imagined before. So the GNC's world strongest team started with 10 pounds, got up to 210 each arm. What was that? The world's strongest team for GNC. That was bench press, right? Yeah. So it was basically, I was 17, 18 years old. It was like, we just kind of picked like a weight, 240 pounds. And I just did as many repetitions as I could. Sort of like a combine-esque kind of situation. And I ended up at that competition. So, I did 23 repetitions at that and weighed about like 120 pounds at the time. But it's just crazy because like I think, so I

Starting point is 00:16:16 opened a gym about eight years ago and, you know, frequently when someone would come into the gym and like talk to me, a lot of times, or not just me, but one of of our coaches they would go and point at somebody doing something amazing and they would go and say like there's no way i can go and do that you know and i hear that all the time that's like to me it's like you know you have no idea where that person started you have no idea like the massive amount of failure that went in to being able to go and get to that point where then they were doing something awesome but the difference was they stuck it out, they did the work, and then that was the result. So, you know, it's like I think if I could go back in time and tell that 10-year-old, like, that was really struggling,

Starting point is 00:16:51 like, yeah, someday you'd be able to go and, you know, lift that weight or travel the world as a speaker or, you know, have businesses and, you know, date some amazing girls or all of that. It's just different experiences or climb some of the highest peaks in the world. Like, if I could tell that 10-year-old that, you know, it would almost seem like a fantasy story. And I think that in coming back to that question that we talked about of like veterans, you know, and somebody maybe that's at a really hard spot, you know, if they could talk to someone 10 or 20 years, you know, like a version of themselves 10 or 20 years later,

Starting point is 00:17:25 after they had really faced some of these fears, then I think that they would have their mind blown as to what they'd be able to achieve. For sure. Was it, you mentioned the gym, which brings this to mind. And I've already alluded to this. This is like the red doorknob in Sixth Sense. So I'll get to my question, which is Georgia. Why did you guys move to Georgia? It was my grandparents moved down.

Starting point is 00:17:52 And this was, I guess, what, sixth grade? Sixth grade, yeah. Grandparents moved down. I mean, just like we're in Indiana and it's just the, you know, it was like the snow and like all that. It was the best thing that happened, I think, in doing the move and going to Georgia. But it was also like time, it felt like the worst. You know, I tried to stage a family coup d'etat to like try to like overthrow my dad and go back to Indiana. You know, it was like I just I noticed that a lot, you know, now kind of get to sort of quasi mentor and help a lot of different kids with disabilities. And I noticed that those transitory periods,

Starting point is 00:18:29 any time where there's a major transition in someone's life, with a move or say you're going from middle school to high school or high school to college or college to the world, then it's those periods of transition that are the most difficult. Because it's like my friends in Indiana saw me as Kyle, saw me as normal, and now I've got to go and re-acclimatize an entire new group of people in Georgia. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:54 How did you, I mean, I imagine the sports is a huge tool and the toolkit for that, right? I mean, you can jawbreak a few dozen people. They're like, I'm good with Kyle. Kyle's good. His body's everywhere. It's like a war movie. Don't mess with that kid.

Starting point is 00:19:12 You better be his friend. So what helped you in that transition aside from the sports? I mean, what was the self-talk, or what did your parents or grandparents say to you? I think they were very much, my mom especially, trying to constantly, you know, she was, she's like a big, she used to always talk about like psychosomatics, you know, and all this stuff, right? She would just talk about kind of mind over matter

Starting point is 00:19:38 and like just be drilling things in my head of like focusing on the positive and all that. So it was really, I'm super glad that she had that had that perspective. Um, but you know, it wasn't always the case. My mind didn't always obviously go there and differently. Probably the, one of the most difficult transitions that I faced was going from, I was a freshman at university of Georgia and write a book. And as you know, when you go and launch a book, then it's like it changes your life pretty dramatically. And, you know, the book tour and all this stuff got to be on Oprah and Larry King when I was 19. And it was like just I went from being a full-time college student to full-time business traveler overnight.

Starting point is 00:20:15 And in my community, people knew me and they knew, you know, not that I like the disability and stuff like that wasn't as, you know, they didn't make it that big of an issue. But when I'd be gone and traveling, especially when I was traveling by myself, then many people looked at me very differently. And, you know, of course I want to help and things like that. And I've had some pretty hilarious events where it was like, for sure. I've learned that one of my like bigger challenges was like accepting help. But there were some times where I knew that it would just be better and easier if I like, whatever it was, did it on my own. Right. One time I'm in the New York airport in LaGuardia. It was a really super steep jetway. And, um, this guy and I get in a little bit of an argument where he tells me he works at the airport and he's telling me he has to push my wheelchair

Starting point is 00:21:00 down this jetway. I'm like, nah, nah, I'd be better, you know, better if I did it. Like, and he's like, no, I have to, it's a liability. And I'm like, we go back and forth, finally give in. But this guy was like the tallest human being I've ever seen, literally. And he goes and takes about three steps down the jetway and he gets his foot caught in the back of my wheelchair and he goes down. So he doesn't just like let go. He just launched me down the jetway and like, I'm sped up and i can see the people their eyes at the bottom like this is it he's coming like what do we do and i tried to grab the wall to slow myself down and it was like this big streak of blood came down this is a big csi crime scene and i'm like wow and i hit the bottom of the ramp and all that and like flipped out of the chair. And I was laughing hysterically when I'd survived.

Starting point is 00:21:50 You're like, good liability coverage. Thanks for that. I was like, dude, just it's all good. Never, ever help me again, please. Right. Stop helping me. My coach used to stay after in practice and he would literally tuck his arms into his sleeves and wrestle from my perspective you know and try to for hours like just try to figure out moves they

Starting point is 00:22:13 could go and do i think a lot of times too we look at things and we forget like you know we look at one person that's achieved something great and we're like oh man that one that that person right we don't see the massive amount of people, the hundreds of people or thousands of people that have poured their life into trying to help that person. Yeah, for sure. I read an essay by Arnold Schwarzenegger recently, which was, I am not a self-made man. And he basically made the same point.

Starting point is 00:22:38 It's like, people ask me all the time, as a self-made man, blah, blah. He's like, let me stop you right there. Because you don't see these, all of these other people, all the other input. Do jujitsu come into the picture first or opening of the gym? The jujitsu came in cause I saw some Gracie videos and I was like, I want to try this stuff. Gracie's in action. Right. Gracie. Yeah. There's probably some Gracie's in action. And the footage of the cheetahs catching the one right this is like vhs 90s it was like 80 state right exactly early days like man but yeah so much i mean like that i saw those

Starting point is 00:23:15 videos and i was like whoa like another human's able to do this to another human like i have to learn and i went in and i got choked out by a girl and I was like super quick to, she triangle choked me, slapped it on. I was like out, you know? And I was like wrestling club level, but still like preparing to go to the nationals in good shape.

Starting point is 00:23:34 Wrestlers love to get caught in triangles. Totally. It's the worst, you know, she's all the bad habits. Like, Oh God, I really want to demo a triangle choke now,

Starting point is 00:23:42 but we're going to save that. We just got our heads all done we just got done uh so the jujitsu i need to do that to another human being choke people yes must do that i saw this chick do this to this guy that was this girl she did it to a guy that was like 200 pounds the next day and i was like how could that how could this be you know did the juitsu then, did you get bitten by that bug before opening the gym? Or was it concurrently? What was the timeline on that? It was a little bit before.

Starting point is 00:24:11 I'd been training for a few years and then opened the gym and actually chose to pursue a fight in MMA within a couple of months. I mean, it was like... It's fast. It's ambitious. Yeah, so I had tried to do an MMA fight before in 2007 and got denied. Just the state wouldn't commission it? I guess the athletic commission wouldn't sanction it?

Starting point is 00:24:32 Yeah, it was the head commissioner. He was in a wheelchair, actually. He told me, I think this is amazing what you're doing here for people with disabilities, and we support you doing this. And then at a commission meeting, it won't be a problem to get your license. It's an amateur fight in Georgia. And then like a couple weeks before the fight, like I don't know, there was a big outcry on the Internet. A lot of people had opinions about things and said some pretty gnarly stuff.

Starting point is 00:24:54 And I mean, my sisters were like crying reading some of this stuff. You know, people saying, you know, Kyle's a limbless freak show. Get doing this to get back on TV and come take a chainsaw and cut off my arms and legs so I can get on TV too. You know, like the super classy YouTube comments, right? And so, yeah, it was kind of my first time doing something that was very polarizing like that. And it was a unique experience. And it was also coupled around, like right around the time I had just opened the gym, some training for the fight, you know, and like some nights like sleeping in the gym, I mean, had opened it up and it was like coaching all the classes. I'm like the CEO.

Starting point is 00:25:28 I'm also the janitor. You know, somebody like goes and pukes during a workout, got to go clean the toilet. It's like, you know, so kind of, I mean, all of those things are going on simultaneously trying to go and prepare for this fight, which is like one of the biggest events in my life. And it was a wild experience, but I look back on that. It was amazing. Some of my best friends, actually, some of them, one of them is here, was a director of a, but I look back on that. It was amazing. Some of my best friends, actually, one of them is here, was a director of a produced documentary on it, ESPN Bot,

Starting point is 00:25:50 and then now it's on Netflix. But it's an amazing journey. What's the doc called? It's called A Fighting Chance. A Fighting Chance. Yeah. So that was your first time sort of being thrown to the Internet wolves, in a sense.

Starting point is 00:26:01 You know a thing or two. They're hungry. Oh, I do know a thing or two about that. What did you learn from that? What did you take away from that? That can be, I mean, it is a really, no matter what, a really difficult experience. But you also then, I mean, you have your family reading these things. What did you learn from that? Or actually, and I could phrase it a different way. You can tackle it however you'd like. If you were to give yourself advice just before getting into that situation, what would you have said? Have compassion for them, have some empathy for them and understand that like, even, you know,

Starting point is 00:26:36 all they're doing is they're projecting my capabilities based on their own experiences. And imagining like, if I were in Kyle's shoes, then of course, you know, like, whatever, then I wouldn't be able to go do this or that. And if you don't have any experience, like if I've never trained with you or whatever, then it would make sense, a guy going into a fight, you know, punching and kicking as loud, you know, choking as loud, all of that stuff.

Starting point is 00:26:58 It's like, seems like crazy and ridiculous until if we train together, I can change your perspective. Right. Then it's like, so they didn't, you know, in their map of the world and their understanding, then it was like, I get it. It makes perfect sense. And at the same time in the cage, I got to sit in there and be the first time in there looking out, not as a spectator, but as a participant, it was like such a cool view man it was like wow like 99.99 of the people that said those things would never have that view because

Starting point is 00:27:31 they're so busy talking shit that they don't live their life to then have that experience and i know there's um a teddy roosevelt thing quote, you know, from a speech that he gave. But this excerpt is called Man in the Arena. Oh, yeah. And that I really encourage everyone here, I mean, to go and check that out. Made a huge impact on me. Man in the Arena. Definitely check it out.

Starting point is 00:27:58 You know what I also, because I was in the middle of getting dragged through the mud at one point for some like minor infraction on the universe. I don't remember what it was, but just getting stoned to death on the internet by some minor contingent of rabble-rousers. And I was just really down on myself, and I watched Ratatouille and the Anton Ego review at the end. I'm going to probably take us back on track, but check it out. That's awesome. When you're in the cage.

Starting point is 00:28:24 Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt. I'm going to class it up by bringing Ratatouille into the picture. But man in the arena, for sure. A must read. So you're in the octagon or the cage. What was going through your head as you enter, like whatever stands out in your memory when you're warming up and like getting ready, going towards it or getting in it, what's going through your mind? So I started before this. I used to, in wrestling, I had overwhelming competitive anxiety and pre-match anxiety. I would be overtaken by it.

Starting point is 00:28:58 And to the point where I eventually wanted to know nothing about my opponents. And I remember I beat a kid that was super tough. And afterwards, my coach was like, did you know he was a two-time state champ? And if I had known going into it, I probably would have lost. So really, going into this fight, I did so much visualization. And it sounds kind of like woo-woo,

Starting point is 00:29:19 but it was so much visualization. Then I think I felt like I told my, my instructor, my, my Paul Creighton is his name, my jujitsu coach at the time. I told him, I was like, I feel like I've been here like 10 times. Like this is like my 10th or 12th fight because I had visualized it so much that when I finally got there, I was able to be calm enough to be able to enjoy that moment. What happened in the fight? So it wasn't the most exciting fight in the world. My, My goal, my strategy, I wanted to go and cut the cage corners off to be able to, it was a square cage that we were fighting in. I wanted to be able to go and then work the angles to then hit the lowest

Starting point is 00:29:52 angle or whatever it was to be able to go and drive him against the cage and take him down. Not much of a kickboxer, you know, if you can imagine. And so a lot of it in the first round is kind of baiting him towards to come to me and um kind of uneventful but by the second second round i was like press the action i'm pressing him trying to cut the corners and all that didn't get him down ate some just jabs probably the hardest shot i ate was maybe in the second round and then in the third round i was like screw this reckless abandon like i'm just chasing this guy as hard and fast as I can, like 90 seconds. And even the announcers, the guy I fought, was like,

Starting point is 00:30:28 well, this guy's on his treadmill now. It was more of a track event than it was an MMA fight. And I'm like, I'm going to go out there. And eventually, it was like, screw this. If he's not going to come in and engage, then I'm going to force the action. I went and laid in the middle of the cage on my back. And he came and just crushed me on the liver. And I was like, oh, bad idea. Get back up. You're like, all right, plan B, plan B.

Starting point is 00:30:51 But you know, and in the internet, it was funny. It was like, so many people said like, oh, Kyle's definitely going to die. Definitely going to die. Going to turn on the TV. It's going to be the first televised death. You know, it was like my other, I was training with Forrest Griffin at the time. So my other like training partner, Forrest, it was before he was going to fight Shogun, who's like legendary MMA fighter. And they were like, Forrest is definitely going to die against Shogun. He ended up beating him. But it was like, Forrest is going to die.

Starting point is 00:31:19 Kyle's going to die. This is like, this camp's going to provide the first two MMA deaths. Like, you know, But it was whatever. I didn't die. Unless I didn't. Actually, this is the afterlife. Who knows? You know, I didn't want to have to be the one to tell you.

Starting point is 00:31:33 That's awkward. A little awkward. This is going to be a private conversation. Just the training for public exposure, the fight itself. By far, the most valuable thing is that it's okay to have people pissed off at me or like mad at me or saying things about me and like whatever. And so I was like, okay. Like I heard at first, it was like, I read that and I was like, I read all this stuff and I was like, man, I don't want to say that. It didn't frustrate me.

Starting point is 00:32:01 And I remember like I wrote this like post on the underground and all that stuff and And it was just like, got buried and nobody even replied to it. It was like this whole wave just kind of kept going to the people talking about stuff that was out of my control. And I was like, they don't know. I want to go and show them and all that. And I'm finally like, you know, I think after, after it was done, I was like, the experience of it was like, screw that. Like, I don't, I don't need to convince everyone. Right. You know, there's plenty of people that I don't need to go in and convince. Yeah. I mean, there's, it's just, we all walk around with this idea and myself included, we all do it. Right. But I try to remind myself all the time that I don't have a freaking clue what reality is. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:32:38 Right. I don't know. And I want to be out in the world, like come and kind of figure that out and just give up my assumptions and beliefs and whatever those things are and not be tied to any one thing. We go and see stuff right now with like the election too and like how polarizing everybody gets and we go and get so gripped to like these beliefs on one side or another. And it's not that one side or the other is better. To me, it's both the same thing. It's like we have to sometimes be able to go and see that like it's just our own perception, it's just our own perception. It's just our own perception. There's nothing to do with reality.

Starting point is 00:33:08 Well, you also mentioned in a way, I mean something, a piece of advice that was given to me at one point when I was getting very frustrated and it was not about the people who don't get it. It's about the people who do get it. Don't worry about the first group. Totally.

Starting point is 00:33:21 And, uh, everybody has to read man in the arena. It is very important reading. It goes well with the serenity prayer, and I'm not a religious guy, but they actually go really well together. What habits do you have, practices, routines, traditions,

Starting point is 00:33:37 anything to keep yourself positive? Because you're one of, at least in our interactions, one of the most consistently positive and enabling people for other folks. Right. How do you keep that going? Or like, what are things that you find help to develop that or maintain it? Because for me,

Starting point is 00:33:57 it's like, I have to have those things. Yeah. It's like going to the gym. It's like, it's not, you read one book and you're done. It's not going to the gym. It's like, it's not, you read one book and you're done. It's not anything like that. I think that right now that's probably the biggest thing

Starting point is 00:34:09 that I'm struggling with in my life. You know, I travel close to 200 days a year and I'm like, just, you know, just beat up by that. And like, you know, so it's different all the time. And that sort of routine and structure is, it's definitely something that I've wanted to have more kind of consistency, you know? And I think that now I'm taking actions towards creating that in my life. I would say the one thing that makes a difference for me is I'm actually like, I can, I can fake extraversion well, but I'm not. I'm the same. Yeah. I'll need, well, I won't get it, but I'll need like 20 hours of sleep. Unfortunately, not in the cards, but, uh, you know, and sometimes you get up and you do it anyway

Starting point is 00:34:45 even when you don't feel like doing it yeah and that's i think the difference with like a performer or like someone that's a high performer like you have to do it right even when you don't feel like it but there are plenty of times when i'm at speeches and stuff like that where you know don't you know i don't feel like giving a speech that day but get up and do it anyway and it's it's really a lot of it the biggest, I think that I've been conscious of lately, you know, there's so much discussion and I've, I've kind of, I talk about this in the speeches too, but it's like this, like the idea of why, right? That's a big con that's a big discussion. But I think the missing link that we have with that is there are like hundreds of whys that are occurring simultaneously for any given moment of why you're going to go and do anything.

Starting point is 00:35:26 Maybe thousands, but at least hundreds. I mean, right now you could come up with like a hundred whys on the spot. You know, if you had 10 minutes to think about it of like why you're doing this TV show and not to have like judgment over those things. Some things might be business related. Some things might be making an impact on people and they'll all,

Starting point is 00:35:43 you know, it's, it might be just so many different inner things connected with that. And really what I've noticed is that's okay. And I get to go and then at that point kind of select what is the one that's going to be the most empowering place to come from with this. In this example, you know, I was a young entrepreneur and reading your books and like, you know, looking up to you. And like, so if I come at it from this perspective of like, one of the whys of me being here would be like, oh, I want to do a good job for Tim. Right. But like, that's not the most empowering why.

Starting point is 00:36:13 I mean, that can be part of it and can coexist with the fact that like, there may be some people in this room right now that are struggling with things that are way more difficult than anything you or I have ever faced. And if one thing that either you or I could go and say could make one bit of difference with that person or people, then that to me matters way more than anything else. And I know that the, you know, all the other stuff of like, you know, look good on TV or like do a good job for Tim, like that would be taken care of is that, you know, it doesn't even matter. But like, if my awareness is there, that's what matters. In so many instances, I've been profoundly impacted by

Starting point is 00:36:52 veterans that were also in some really rough spots. Like, I desperately wanted to serve. I mean, I wanted to go when 9-11 happened and, you know, we saw the planes go in the towers I was like I want to go bad you know send me and would have done anything to go and um you know it was high school right testosterone and all that and and I've got so many friends that are in the military now some of my closest friends active duty some retired some injured some not anybody that's ever put on that uniform I have a tremendous respect for and but on several instances and times where I've been feeling sorry for myself you know and I mean I hate this word but motivational speaker speaker, right? Like the motivational speakers, whatever, they had bad days too, right? And you have moments where, you know, I feel like motivating, but then like I go and I

Starting point is 00:37:51 meet some veterans and, you know, just have these just powerful experiences and things that like just really reshape the way they go and think about stuff. I remember I was just sharing with some friends today about like, you know, I went in a couple of years ago. It was a trip just back to Walter Reed and got to go and visit. We actually played the documentary, Fighting Chance. We had a viewing at Walter Reed and spent about an hour in this hospital room with this one kid who had recently been blown up pretty bad. He's 19, 20 years old. He was sitting there with his dad and they said, you know, I mean, it was fairly recent that it happened and that when he, I was like invited

Starting point is 00:38:31 him to come down and watch the movie with me. And, um, you know, we had maybe intimate kind of thing, 30 or 40 people in this room watching the film and like, um, you know, and seeing their reactions to when the people would go and say the things that they said about me in the mma fight it was like powerful i mean they were like some of them wanting to just like strap up and go after those guys i'm like whoa you guys need to chill but the you know so this one kid i remember 15 minutes after the movie started and like he came he was in his chair and he'd been blown up really really high um and lost both legs and like almost it was really high and they said that that was like one of the first

Starting point is 00:39:11 times that he got to come out of his room and like the first time that he'd come out of his room maybe and like maybe like one of the first times ever like since he'd been there and stuff like that man it's like it put a different feeling and perspective on it because it was like it took away the this idea that like i needed to go and serve with a rifle that you know but there would be ways that i could go and serve in other ways now and i'm still in with you know every fiber of my being want to go in and find ways to go in and help those that have been over there to defend us. This is from Ryan Minnick. No excuses. Your book was published a decade ago. Is there anything about the book that you wish you could revise? And I would just tag onto that or add or remove for that matter. Is there anything you'd change? Man, I don't think

Starting point is 00:40:02 we have time for that. No, it's like, I mean, really, like, I don't think we have time for that. No, it's like, I mean, really, like, I think a big, I can answer that and summarize that with, it's a perfect snapshot in time of who Kyle Minard was at 19 years old. And, you know, it's not something, you know, a big weakness that I've had. And it kind of connected to what you'd say, even like why speaking, right? Why am I doing that?

Starting point is 00:40:25 Well, a lot of it, frankly, is I don't have a good answer for that because of what i've always done in many regards i think that the struggle sometimes that i have now is is that someone will like read my book and have me come in and speak to their group and that's awesome but it's also like their map of who kyle was is is like the 19 year old version and like i'm like might not even talk about wrestling right it's like there's a lot of other stuff to talk about so yeah do you have plans to write more books i do and i mean i you know i can't give you a p.s excuse as to why i haven't no it's true I think that the big reason of why I haven't, I'm kind of glad that I haven't. Extreme pain in writing is always my excuse. Yeah, right. Totally.

Starting point is 00:41:09 Well, I actually kind of see some of your posts and I'm like, that doesn't sound like a lot of fun. No, but it takes a lot out of you. And at the same time, I'm like, you know, a book is a very permanent sort of medium. You know, I don't know if someday if I'll have kids or not. I have a niece and nephew, you know, and someday they'll have kids and all that, right? And they're kids. And so like way after I'm gone and way after you're gone, those books will still be around as sort of a way for people to know who you were. Yeah. I always tell people and they're like,

Starting point is 00:41:37 yeah, I really want to write a book, like maybe my spare time. And I'm like, a mediocre book is more of a liability than a help. Trust me. Can't pull that one. Can't put the toothpaste back in the toothpaste tube on that. That's a really messy operation. It's not going to work. When you are traveling, what does a workout look like for you? The pain cave. Yeah. How do you create that on the road? I try to, I mean, I know that just with my body alone, I can go and make a lot of different things happen, different body weight things. And, you know, I mean, if I have one dumbbell or something like that, I can go and use it.

Starting point is 00:42:15 It helps for me to have like a little bit of a mat or something like that, kind of yoga mat or something to brace off of. But generally there's some form of, even like any type of object, right? Like, you know, if I need to pick up this chair and go and move it around really fast in a bunch, it might look really weird for anybody that comes in on that. But like, you know, it's I'm just imagining the cleaning lady. What is happening right now? Am I on drugs? Totally. I got to get out of here. But this guy is definitely on drugs. I don't want whatever he's got.

Starting point is 00:42:46 Just make me move a bunch of chairs everywhere. Worst recreational trip ever. If you had to give a TED Talk on something that you are not known for, do you have any kind of pet obsessions, things you geek out on that you'd present on? I mean, it's a little bit different, but I would say it's, I'd probably give a Ted talk on parenting, but not from like, I mean, I don't have any kids. Right. So like, who am I to give a talk on that? But like, so seeing my, uh, my, my, my sister as a parent is really special. My niece was diagnosed with type one

Starting point is 00:43:21 diabetes, you know, and some days are like really hard for that. Like that's a disability that you can't necessarily always see unless you see maybe like a glucose monitor on someone or insulin pump. But like, you know, my sister's just, I don't know, she's just awesome with that. Like it just is really special. Like the other day, you know, they were, she's at this birthday party and, and, um, this little girl came up to her and she could see that she had like a glucose monitor on the back of her arm. It was this princess-themed birthday party

Starting point is 00:43:47 and this little girl was like, you can't be a princess because you have one of those. And my immediate response was like, oh, well, you can't be a princess because you're the devil. I think that's a fair response. I think it's a fair response. I think it's a fair response. Use head butter after that?

Starting point is 00:44:09 Yeah, that's right. The little girl. Bring it! Oh, no, the person got it on YouTube, right? Give me your phone. Don't make me break your jaw. Give me the phone. So how did your sister handle that?

Starting point is 00:44:23 You know, she's like, she'll talk to her about it. And it's just like, it's just in this like very kind of open, open, loving way. And like, yeah, it sucks, you know, and like dealing with like the reality of it. But it's really like they, you know, she won't let her be consumed with this like identity around like the type 1 diabetes, you know. And it's like, and kind of teaching her even at a young age, like, yeah, I mean, if you want to do something someday to be able to make a difference with this like you can yeah and it's like you know she's like four years old and she's like this this sweetest girl in my life i mean it and she's i think that that too and kind of her being around me and other things like that has kind of given her um a level of like you know indifference about the disability which i think

Starting point is 00:45:03 is a really good thing like indifference there is like zero separation. It's just normal. The only time that she's ever said anything, my niece, we were coloring together and it was this Elsa, you know, Elsa Nona kind of thing that we're coloring. And she looked at me and she was like, oh, Kai Kai, you don't have hands. And I was like, yeah, I don't. She was like, like yeah I don't she was like huh I love tool right Maynard James Keenan in tool he's like uh-huh he's the man and like I love him also to too. He's a black belt in

Starting point is 00:45:46 jiu-jitsu. Wrestled at Army. I saw a guy that tried to get on stage with him one time, got past security, and the guy went to go and give him a hug, and Maynard went to give him a hug, and he hip-tossed him, took the guy's back, rear naked choke. The guy's rocking out, and Maynard starts singing again, and then the guy's hand just

Starting point is 00:46:02 drops. It's a bad stage to run up on right but he's he's a guy where i'm like i just wanted to hide so maynard goes and um gives up he's this music career he's still doing it but it's like he's had this super successful career in music completely gives it up recreates himself as a winemaker i didn't know that you didn't know that. You didn't know that? No. Dude, you're like the wine guy.

Starting point is 00:46:27 I like, well, I mean. I mean, I'm a consumer. I basically, I've drank like, I don't even know, like my body weight many times over in Malbec because of you. I thought for sure you would know that. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, look, I'm not going to, I am a consumer in my drinking capacities. Well, you know, in wine though, it's like a brutal business. Super brutal. It's kind of like,

Starting point is 00:46:51 especially with the exception of a rare few, it's kind of like, okay, if you want to, I can't remember. I asked this buddy of mine, owns a bunch of bars and I asked him why he didn't do restaurants. Like, why don't you have food on your menu? And he goes, I would rather, he's pointing to a window. He's like, I would rather put my hands behind my back, jump through that window face first, take all of my money and light it on fire in the street, then start a restaurant. They explained it. But it's like, yeah. He's kind of indifferent to it. Yeah, well, it's just like magazines, newspapers, restaurants. You probably should just light your money on fire.

Starting point is 00:47:24 And then wineries, it's like, with the exception of a handful of people, very hard to make work. Brutal, restaurants. You probably should just light your money on fire. And then wineries, with the exception of a handful of people, very hard to make work. Brutal, brutal. And you're at the whim of acts of God, right? Yep. I mean, like, you have a bad season. You have a bad season. I think winemakers are some of the most interesting people

Starting point is 00:47:38 because I think the ones that I got to in Argentina in this last climb, and we were in the land of Malbec and spent time with this guy, the wine was El Enamigo and and had this like, you know, super masculine, like half scorpion, half man on the label. But it said at the end, there's only one battle that you remember. And it's the battle within. So, I mean, of course I'm like, this could be terrible, but I'm going to love it because of that quote. Yeah. But the guy was like testing limits and testing assumptions where he was growing grapes at altitudes that like people said you couldn't do it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:08 And I love that. You know, it's like I love that you can go and attest to those assumptions. It's like, yeah, that was, you know, it's in medicine. It's in everything. I mean, I just got to give a speech with Pfizer and I talked about the treatment that my grandma went through with this, you know, and cancer, you know, oncology treatment products or some of the things that they go and make and the polarity that occurred and the tension that occurred inside of our family and how that treatment should go was really intense. And it finally, like, you know, she was dealing with oncologists that hadn't had, you know,

Starting point is 00:48:41 they went to school that were like maybe 40 or 50 years ago, right? And it was like they're at the very tail end of their careers, and they're not updating the map, right? And there's so many things, like even fasting has demonstrated profound effects on radiation and chemo treatments. Oh, yeah. It's incredible. I mean, being a Dominic D'Agostino, I've interviewed a few times, an incredible scientist, has looked at the effects. And it doesn't, it's not effective for all types of cancer. It's not suitable for all patients. But there are published studies looking at how it can sensitize cancer cells to different types of treatments while protecting healthy cells. It's very, very fascinating stuff. And I just want to mention one thing, which is, we're talking about how everyone has, everyone's like Swiss cheese,

Starting point is 00:49:34 and we all have our disabilities, just some are more visible than others perhaps. So Malbec, and this may be an exaggeration, that's also common in Argentina. Very passionate people, They love telling stories. But Malbec was not really well known in the world before Argentina, but it was brought from Europe. And my understanding is that it was basically treated like a garbage grape. And then the immigrants brought it to Buenos Aires and it's turned into this world famous wine that was discarded effectively.

Starting point is 00:50:05 So you never know where you're going to find the strength. The garbage grate, man. Maybe that's a book, right? Seriously, I think about this. I'm like every one of my favorite societies to go and study of like the Spartans and the Vikings and these warrior cultures, they would have like left me to die. Take this one, throw them over the edge. Like the beginning of 300 or they're throwing the babies off. Like that would have been

Starting point is 00:50:25 me right there. Like clearly. Oh my God. So many amazing images coming up today. King Leonidas. Yeah. I'm still thinking about you on like Coke moving your furniture. Well, the night is young, right? Yeah. The night is young. That'd be a hell of a party.

Starting point is 00:50:45 Go get the chandelier. That'd be a hell of a party. What time are you going to film tomorrow? Ferris, go get the chandelier. I'm on it. From when you had the initial idea to do Kilimanjaro to the point that you were actually suited up, geared, and about to start the climb, how much time elapsed? So sitting in the bathtub with the ice, had the idea.

Starting point is 00:51:03 That was like fall of 2010 met my friend dan april 2011 and we started this project together and then um so april 2011 and then by january 3rd 2012 we were on the plane flying to africa you had to figure out a lot of stuff right i mean i mean first was getting somebody that's crazy enough to take us. Yeah. Seriously. Cause it was like, so how'd you convince someone to do it? Um, it was, it was rough. I mean, and I mean, we, I think, so thankfully one of my friends and mentors, this guy named Eric Weinemeier that, um, was the first blind mountaineer to climb Mount Everest and every high peak in the world. And he actually just rafted the entire length of the Colorado river through the grand Canyon. Wow. Right. Not rafted like in length of the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon.

Starting point is 00:51:45 Wow. Not rafted, like in a rafter. He was kayaking, rather. Wow. Wow. Completely. Not like you can peek through when you put the blindfold on a little bit. It's crazy to think about that.

Starting point is 00:51:57 Yeah, that's wild. And he's insane. He's amazing. And I sought him out, me and my friend Dan, who helped me co-create the mission. And we, you know, Dan was the first one that was kind of like the one crazy enough to go along with me. He'd, you know, he'd been a record-setting middle linebacker. But it was, you know, he was like five foot nine or something like that,

Starting point is 00:52:24 you know, and like had 21 on us as tackles in the game. It was one of the most passionate, esoteric guys that I could connect with on that level. Almost burnt my house down. It was a totally random story. But yeah, he microwaved an aluminum coffee mug. And I was doing some emails. And I turn around and there's flame shooting down my microwave. I'm like, bro.

Starting point is 00:52:49 So, I hope he sees this, but you know, so it's like, but he's this kind of guy though, that was like, he go and run through a brick wall. Yeah. And I needed that person to go and have that belief with me. So then from there we sought out Eric. Eric introduced us to our guide, Kevin Shrilla. Kevin had led, uh, he'd's base camp of Eric's Everest climb. He was the base camp manager. He's led more climbers up Kilimanjaro than I think any American. And many with disabilities led a guy almost to the True Summit in like a hand crank bike. A group of like eight flying climbers up Kilimanjaro. So with Kevin, he was really the one, you know, him and his partner, Kristen,

Starting point is 00:53:25 they kind of made it happen. Well, I would just want to thank you, Kyle, for honestly showing everyone that they can do more than they think they're capable of doing. It's a huge gift to the world. Ladies and gentlemen, Kyle is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off.

Starting point is 00:53:54 Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a

Starting point is 00:54:33 little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to 4hourworkweek.com. That's 4hourworkweek.com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by 99designs. I've used 99designs for years for all sorts of graphic design needs. Whether you need a logo, website, book cover, or anything else, 99designs was created to make great designs accessible to everyone and to make the process of getting designs much, much easier. So when I first started out, for instance, testing prototype covers and getting prototype covers for the 4-Hour Body, I went the contest route. That is one option.

Starting point is 00:55:16 This is a great solution if you're looking for fast, affordable design work and the ability to choose from dozens of options risk-free. Let's say you need something late night, quick turnaround. Well, people in other time zones, other countries can also help you solve that problem. Since then, I've worked with 99designs on a separate path or a different option, and that is the one-to-one project service. So in a number of cases, and I'll give you one example, when I wanted to create the cover for my audio book, The Tao of Seneca, this was a very important project to me. I decided to use their one-to-one project service. And with this service, you can invite a specific designer to your project,

Starting point is 00:55:55 agree on a price, and then work together until you're satisfied. And they allow you to iterate and provide feedback and all of this stuff. And I haven't shared it yet, but we also got some incredibly good, really some of the best illustrations I've ever seen from using this one-to-one project service with a handful of different designers and illustrators. It blew my mind. 99designs makes this all very easy and efficient. So you can check out the Tao of Seneca design and other work that I and your fellow listeners,

Starting point is 00:56:22 for that matter, have done on 99designs at 99designs at 99designs.com forward slash Tim. And right now you can get a free $99 upgrade on your first design. Again, that's 99designs.com forward slash Tim. This episode is brought to you by WordPress, my go-to platform for blogging, writing online, creating websites, everything. I love WordPress to bits. My site, every site just about that I have is run on WordPress. And the lead developer of WordPress, Matt Mullenweg, has appeared on this podcast many times. The very first episode in particular is amazing.

Starting point is 00:57:02 The second, I took a ton of notes on. So you should check it out. But WordPress, where do I even begin? I mean, The New Yorker uses it. Jay-Z, Beyonce, they use it. FiveThirtyEight, TechCrunch, TED, CNN, Time. Whether you are looking to create a personal blog, a business site, both, neither, something else,

Starting point is 00:57:21 you'll make a huge impact when you build your website on WordPress.com. And directly from some friends at Google, I'm not going to quote them by name, but they say that WordPress offers the best out of the box SEO, that search engine optimization imaginable. So if you're on WordPress, you immediately have a leg up on everybody else on search engines and so forth. In my experience, I'm no medical doctor of search engine optimization, but I will say that I used WordPress for years and fell in love with it to the extent that I became very close friends with Matt and then became an investor slash advisor to Automatic, which runs WordPress.com.

Starting point is 00:58:06 That is how much I believe in this. And that's how a lot of my most successful products and investments have come about. Because I'm in love with X and then I seek out X. Nearly 30% of the internet is run on WordPress. And that includes everything from the huge sites that I mentioned to neighborhood sites. And it is super easy to get started. There's no need to worry about security or upgrades or hosting. They offer 24-7 support and handle all of that, which allows you to focus on creating the highest quality content you can with the least amount of friction. I don't have to worry about downtime. I don't have to worry about getting emergency emails if I'm on vacation or something like that. And WordPress is my go-to solution for

Starting point is 00:58:50 all of this. I trust all of my most important text on the internet to WordPress. And they can't buy that with a sponsorship. They can't buy that with anything. I want uptime, uptime, uptime, and quality. And that is what I have selected after everything that I've looked at. So check it out. Go to WordPress. That's W-O-R-D-P-R-E-S-S.com. WordPress.com forward slash Tim to receive 15% off of your website today. That's WordPress.com forward slash Tim.

Pet Camera - EBO Air 2

The Tim Ferriss Show - #251: How to Live Without Limits - Kyle Maynard

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Pet Camera - EBO Air 2

The Tim Ferriss Show - #251: How to Live Without Limits - Kyle Maynard

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.