The Tim Ferriss Show - #260: Setting Goals, Making Money, and Overcoming Tough Times -- Phil Hellmuth

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Starting point is 00:02:57 that's tim.blog forward slash Friday. And thanks for checking it out. If the spirit moves you. Hello, boys and girls, this is Tim Ferrris and welcome to another episode of the tim ferris show where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers of all different types whether they come from the worlds of business chess military sports you name it in this case poker this episode of the podcast features phil hellmuth, at Phil underscore Hellmuth, H-E-L-L-M-U-T-H, who has won more World Series of Poker bracelets than any other person in history. I'm not drunk. I'm high on life. This interview comes from my television show, Fearless, fear and in parentheses less, because the objective is to learn to fear less, not be fearless, in which I interview world-class performers on stage about how they've overcome doubt, conquered fear, and made their toughest decisions. You can watch the entire first episode

Starting point is 00:03:59 with illusionist David Blaine for free at att.net forward slash fearless. So you can check that out. And to watch all episodes, just visit direct tv.com or check out your account on direct tv. So direct tv.com that is with one t d i r e c t v.com. We recorded about three hours of material when Phil and I sat down, and only one hour was used for the TV show. That means this podcast is almost entirely new content that did not appear in the television episode. In this conversation, we explore many things, including Phil's morning routine, the importance of goals and blessings, how he became the youngest person to win the World Series of Poker, his prep for the

Starting point is 00:04:45 high stakes games in which he plays, what it takes to compete at the highest level, and much, much more. Also, since we recorded the show, Phil published his autobiography, Poker Brat, well titled. You can check that out. So with all of that said, please enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with Phil Hellmuth, and let's get started right meow. Enjoy. Welcome to Fearless. I'm your host, Tim Ferriss, and on this stage, we'll be deconstructing world-class performers of all types to uncover and distill the specific tactics they've used to overcome doubt, tackle their hardest decisions, and ultimately succeed on their own terms. So let's do a show of hands. How many people here think they can tell when someone is lying? About 50%. Now, how many of you think you can lie and not get caught? 30. How many of you who raised your hands would be willing to bet your entire life savings on being able to do that.

Starting point is 00:05:50 All right, six or seven. Well, for the last 30 years, my guest tonight has made his living reading behavior, analyzing the odds, and gambling for his future. In 1989, he became the youngest main event champion at the World Series of Poker, and he holds the world record for most event wins at 14, and he's still going. Please welcome author, entrepreneur, and professional poker player, Phil Helmuth. I can always tell, I have a lot of friends who watch poker, and I'm an avid fan, but not a competent player, so we're not going to be at the same table anytime unless I'm a spectator but I can always tell when you're on because of the beeping it draws me into the room the good news is this isn't really family programming so no bleeps in this conversation

Starting point is 00:06:37 if it all comes out I want to talk a little bit about the scrabble are you trying to encourage me to swear you know this my, I'm from Long Island. It might come out on my part. I do drop F bombs if I get wound up. So, uh, yeah, I guess that's a light nudge, but swearing, swearing is part of the lexicon now when things have changed so much, you know, um, you know, and so I do probably swear more than I should, even when I'm on the microphone doing events, you know, and someone will be like, there's always one or two people of the couple hundred at the event that are offended. They usually don't say anything. That's pretty good. I mean, that's a pretty good percentage. I mean, that's a good win.

Starting point is 00:07:15 Like, I have a goal sheet on my mirror, and I have a blessing sheet on my mirror. So at the morning, when I'm brushing my teeth and not paying attention, I see what my lifetime goals are or my goals for that year. And then I also see my blessings. So I leave hopefully happy because I've seen the blessings and focus because I know what my goals are. So for me, that's, you know, some of these. So let me just wrap this up because it's kind of fun. So the other day. I'm not in any rush. We have all the time in the world. Well, I was at Starbucks three or four months ago and someone came up to me and I was really tired.

Starting point is 00:07:54 It was a Sunday morning and I hadn't slept well. And someone came up to me that doesn't know me that well or whatever. But I'm polite and I smiled and I shook his hand or whatever and just wanted to get my coffee and get out of there. And then his wife pops up and she's just glowing. And she's like, Phil, I got to tell you, I was at your speech. I put my goals up on my mirror and I accomplished them within two months. And she was glowing. And I thought, wow, I had a profound influence on her life. And it just made me feel like, I mean, I know as a professional poker player at the top of the game, I do things no one else does in the game. And I know that I motivate.

Starting point is 00:08:37 I've known this since maybe 2002 where someone came up to me and they said, Phil, I was in a coma. And I woke up because I imagined playing you heads up at poker. And this guy sat down in the audience when I was playing heads up for a world championship. And my wife said, he sat down and you won 11 hands in a row. And she said, there's something weird here. And so from that moment on, way back in 2002, I realized that I'm motivating, you know, that I'm inspirational to people, not the stuff that you see on television, although that's kind of fun to watch

Starting point is 00:09:18 me beeping and whatever, but me performing at the top of what I do, you know, I mean, you watch some great athletes do things no other great athletes can do. I like watching Tiger Woods at his prime. I like watching Michael Jordan. I'm not as big as those guys, but in my industry, it's kind of fun to see, wow, how did Phil know to fold this or move in with this? And so, yeah, I think when I'm achieving the most I can achieve and I'm playing poker like no one else has ever seen, I think that that can be inspirational for millions of people that watch it. So in that period when you were struggling, did you have any particular coping mechanisms or strategies that you used, things to occupy your time that helped you get through that? Absolutely, a big coping mechanism for me,

Starting point is 00:10:18 and this applied itself in poker too, because when you're young in poker, you're usually reckless. So I told you I won the main event, $750,000 for first, right? This is 1989, man. So, you know, and I'd been taking way too many chances. And, uh, and so at that point from there, yes, I was smart. I bought a penthouse condominium, you know, and paid cash for it. Yes, I put aside money for taxes, but the other $300,000 I lost. So yeah, I ended up with, and I mean, I bought a couple

Starting point is 00:10:54 cars, so beautiful cars, penthouse condominium, but I'm struggling to pay $800 a month condo fees. It's like a year later. And so the coping mechanism there is rather than, it's not that I'm avoiding the present. It's that you're like, this is a moment where there's a lot of rain. So number one, I'm going to develop strategies for the next time I have money. My money management system has to be really solid and I have to actually apply it and use it. That's number one. Number two, I would look forward and I'd say, all right, what does it look like in two years? It looks amazing in two years. And so in the depths of dealing with some of the worst times, I would take advantage of that down period of that being trodden down to be more focused.

Starting point is 00:11:47 All right. How did this happen? How can I play poker better? How can I money manage? Money management is more important than playing poker. For a poker player? Yeah. Well, you can ask me about that later, but that's a very interesting topic. Yeah, I will. To go with it, you know, so that was those was, those are the, those are the kind of the things I would use. Vince Vaughn was talking about this last night. You know, he, he told me, he taught me something that I hadn't thought about much. When someone's looking at a flop, they usually haven't hit it. They're trying to figure out, do I have anything? The

Starting point is 00:12:19 flop meaning when the dealer puts it, when the first three cards come out. Yes. But you have to pay attention to all that tells a story. and then when the next card they look at it for a long time they're trying to figure out what to make of their hand whereas if they look at it quickly then either have nothing or we were talking about potentially a strong position that was a great observation his part made me realize how smart he is increased increased my respect factor for him because he got it and pointed out something that I hadn't been paying attention to recently. But everything adds up. It's a picture. And how much are they betting?

Starting point is 00:12:57 And when the next card comes off, now there's four in the middle, how much are they betting? And when the fifth card comes up, how much are they betting? Are they hesitating because they think I have to bluff all in here and I have to man up to do it. And then when they bluff, do they put it in right away or do they wait? You know, and then people try to use things to throw you off. So you have to decipher the whole picture. So I trust my instincts. And when I'm on, I look I look great. Yeah. But I'm just not on every day. So, you know, we film so much poker. Yeah. There's days where I'm off and then a million of the kids watch it and they say Phil sucks at poker.

Starting point is 00:13:37 Phil sucks at poker. Phil sucks at poker. I hear that. I've heard that so often in my life that I'm not good at poker. It's crazy to me. It's because they watch my worst moments. And I think, I wonder if I watched this guy who's criticizing me. I've watched all of his worst moments. Yeah. You know. The blooper reel for somebody else.

Starting point is 00:13:56 Probably. So you're talking about when you're at your best. And by the way, that can get to me. People, you know, I mean, people were telling me I wasn't good at poker coming into, the game had passed me by coming into 2010. I sucked at poker, you know, because I hadn't done anything in a couple of years. And I mean, Internet forums filled with how bad I was at poker because I'm a big target and because I hadn't done anything lately. And that's fair criticism. And then all of a sudden, 2011 came and I had, you know, three second place finishes and everybody's like, wow. And then 2012 came and I won two bracelets and everybody's like, oh my God. But I swear, never forget this 2011 um they were talking about how how i was like i'd fallen

Starting point is 00:14:51 out of the top 500 in poker how i sucked at the game exactly three weeks later i had two second place finishes and they were talking about how i was the greatest And I was just like, all right, what changed? I mean, come on. I was given some advice early on when I was writing because I was getting really thrown for a loop with some criticisms. I remember the first time

Starting point is 00:15:15 I got a negative Amazon review, the very first time. It's like, wow. And I wrote this really logic, logical, compassionate reply. This like long, I spent hours on this thing. And the guy replied like, yeah, go fuck yourself. And I was like, oh, the humanity.

Starting point is 00:15:31 Why won't you listen, internet? And somebody said to me, you're never as bad as they say you are. And you're never as good as they say you are either. And I was like, all right, that's fine. Did you then stop reading reviews? I stopped reading most of them. On Amazon and YouTube and a few places where it always devolves to Hitler after two pages.

Starting point is 00:15:50 You're like, how did we get to Hitler? It's a kitten video. But what I wanted to ask you before I get too far off the rails. Wait, so you just kind of gave up. I stopped looking at poker forums in 2001. I just stopped looking. Yeah. Well, I think it's like you don't,

Starting point is 00:16:05 there's how to deal with something and then there's choosing not to, like strategically choosing not to deal with it. So sometimes it's easier to not go where it's slippery if you don't want to slip, right? So it's just like with temptation, with the quality problem, but like beautiful, smart women kind of swarming around when you're in Vegas or something like that. Similarly, it's like, well, I don't want to have to waste the energy to manage my response to something that isn't going to be productive anyway, because the good stuff is just going to make my head inflate and the bad stuff isn't going to be probably even accurate, or it's going to make me feel terrible. So what's the outcome that I'm looking for? But what I want to ask you, because my whole life to stay with that a second, my whole life has been, you know, I would get too inflated by the good stuff. My ego

Starting point is 00:16:49 gets all pumped up and I get too devastated by the bad stuff. You know what I mean? And, and I look back and I was very defensive in a lot of the videos that you may or may not show, but a lot of these videos, I'm super defensive until 2011, 2012. And I'm like, wait a minute, I'm the all time champion. I have all the records. Why am I so 2012. And I'm like, wait a minute, I'm the all-time champion. I have all the records. Why am I so defensive? And I think that's part of that defensiveness. That's part of maybe ties in.

Starting point is 00:17:14 I want to be great. And I want everybody to think I'm great at games, specifically poker. And I think that may drive me. I'm trying to get away from being defensive. Yeah, it's tough. I'm pretty defensive too. I mean, I remember- I read a tweet today and I was like, what?

Starting point is 00:17:35 Yeah, on Twitter, Twitter. I remember Stephen Fry opted out, a well-known comedian actor of being on Twitter. And he said, it's like too many people have peed in the pool. He's like, I'm out of here. Taking a break from Twitter. Yeah, gross. But useful metaphor. Anyway, I want to talk about one of the times maybe you weren't at your best. You've lost all this money just to go back to where we were in your timeline. And I'd read about you setting a number of goals, maybe in a taxi cab.

Starting point is 00:18:06 Am I making this up? Uh, there were a few goals. One was world series of poker, I believe. Uh, if this is fiction, let me know. Second was, Oh no, no, I've got it. I've got it from here. So, so I mean this, this was probably, I was 21, I guess, maybe 22, something like that. And, and I had this kind of like one of these weird touch points where something amazing happens to me weird. Right. So I'm playing poker in Madison, Wisconsin. I wake up and it's foggy and it's, you know, and there's snow on the ground. And I'm like, you know, I'm looking at a two and $4 limit game, but I have $20,000. You go to that game, you might make 200 bucks. Right. So, but why do I, what's, what am I doing? You know? And so I go

Starting point is 00:18:58 over there and I'm bored and I don't want to, and there's no golf courses open and I can't find anything kind of fun to do. And so two of the guys from the game, I say, hey, let's go have a drink. So I've never been a big drug guy, but I smoke pot. And then we go to the bar, and I'm having a drink. And they're playing pool for $10 or $20 a game. And it's like 1 in the afternoon. Yeah, yeah. And I'm having a drink and I've smoked pot and I'm suddenly like and they're arguing about twenty dollars at the pool table.

Starting point is 00:19:32 And I'm like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? You know, and I'm like,, I open this door, right? And boom, like the sun is out now. And it's bouncing off the snow. And it's just like, it's like a metaphor for what happened at that moment was the reality of what happened at that moment. I opened the door and I saw all the light, right? Just, and it's coming at me and it's bouncing off everything. And I've been in some dingy bar and I'm just like, wow, what is this? And I call for a taxi. I would never drive when I'm doing something silly like that. I get back to my apartment and I'm like, what are you doing

Starting point is 00:20:17 with your life? And the first thing I do, I have all this positive momentum and all this energy. And I'm like, this is my lifetime goals. I'm going to win the main event, the World Series of Poker. If I'm going to be a poker player, I'm going to be the best in the world. I'm going to meet and marry an amazing woman. I'm going to buy a beautiful house. I'm going to buy a beautiful car. And maybe one or two, I'm going to write a New York Times bestselling book, right? So I said, these are my lifetime goals, like six of them. And then I had all this positive momentum and all this energy. And I'm like, wow, in order to get there, how am I going to do it? Well, I think of it as a pyramid. First, I have to be able to not smoke pot, not become an alcoholic, manage my money, all these little things on the bottom row of the pyramid. And then there's the next row of the pyramid, exercise, eating healthy,

Starting point is 00:21:12 all of this stuff. And the next row, make sure that you're studying the game, all the way to the top. So I designed a pyramid in that moment, just as creative breakthrough I'm having, right? And then I'm like, well, actually, I love the concept of a pyramid. And in poker, the money flows up. So I designed that pyramid in that moment. I'm just writing for hours like a madman. And at the bottom of the pyramid is like all the small stakes games that might happen at a bar. And then all the home games. And then some of the games in Vegas, and some of the big games in LA, all the money flows up.

Starting point is 00:21:48 All the people that have success here come to this level. They dump off the money or they go up. Most dump off the money. So the money flows all the way up. So if I wanna be, if I wanna win millions or decamillions playing poker, I have to be up here at the top as a player. And I have to use this pyramid and make sure that I check all the boxes on all these blocks to get there. Right. And I

Starting point is 00:22:14 came up with the concept. I'm overwhelming people. I have two pyramids and a lifetime goal list. And then I decided it's important to have something on my bathroom mirror, which we talked about a little bit already. And so that concept came that day. So all of this amazing positive momentum. But to me, that was one of the most, I'm calling that in my autobiography, Poker Brad, I'm saying that chapter is called, I can see the light. I just talk about that. And then I'm devising all these money management strategies. So what were some of your, that was a profound moment for me in my life. What were some of your, because this is, this is, I think a really critical component as you alluded to earlier, what were some of those

Starting point is 00:22:56 money management strategies? Oh, before, before we, I'll come to that. But before I say the amazing thing was with all those goals, I looked like a year later, my wife found the list. And maybe two years later, and I'd knocked off five of those lifetime goals already. I'd won the main event. I'd met Kathy. I'd bought this beautiful condominium. I'd met Kathy. Yeah. You know, I bought this beautiful condominium. I, you know, I bought some beautiful cars. And so just it was amazing how many boxes I checked. Now, the best selling book. I didn't know this in 04 when I put out play poker like the pros. I didn't know that this would be the one. I just saw the poker wave coming and I put a how-to book out there, wrote it myself. We talked about this last night. It took two months, 1500 words a day, put it out there. Some guy holds it up on ESPN. He'd played a seven card low tournament, seven card low. He'd never played before. What does that mean? What's a seven card low tournament? So, I mean, basically the world series of Poker has a seven card stud tournament, a hold'em tournament, Omaha, all these different variations of poker. He's playing in a seven card low. He said, I read Phil Hellmuth's

Starting point is 00:24:14 book. And he holds it up. Holds it up on ESPN. I read Phil Hellmuth's book and I cashed for $17,000. Not a million. Yeah. Not two million. million, $17,000. Boom. My book hits the bestseller list. Wow. So, you know, that's a lifetime goal. So I remember HarperCollins calls me. They somehow, I guess we had cell phones by then.

Starting point is 00:24:45 So they called me and they said, where are you staying? And I'm like, I'm at the, I'm at the Lowe's hotel. And they said, okay, your book just hit the New York times bestseller list. We just sent a bottle of Dom to your room. And I'm like, and it was a how to list. So I just walked around high for weeks. because that was one of the last goals that I had to accomplish. Yeah, yeah. And there's so many directions we could go, but I'm going to go back to the well. Money management? Yes, sir. So at that time, because this is a critical survival skill, it seems like.

Starting point is 00:25:19 I mean, foundational for some. I'm glad you came back to this because I think the people out there should know this. Yeah. What's more important? Great poker skills or great money management? Money management. you came back to this because I think the people out there should know this. What's more important, great poker skills or great money management? Money management. I'll tell you why. If you have a guy that has poker skills, let's do a diagram here. Poker skills of 80, let's say poker skills of 90. Okay. And you have a guy of poker skills of 80 but the guy with 80 manages money better he's going to have a much more comfortable life he's going to win his money he's going to sit down in the smart games at the right time with the right amount of money and he's just going to

Starting point is 00:25:57 flow along he's going to pay all of his bills it's going to look boring some of the outsiders can say oh you're too conservative. But meanwhile, look at the guy who is 90. All right. But no money management skills. Loses all his money in one night. Now he has to borrow money from his friends. Loses that too. Then he gets staked. Right. That means someone is bankrolling. Someone banksrolls him, but he has so much skill that he hits for 500,000 in a tournament. Okay. But his backer gets 250,000, but still now he has 250,000. Now he's back in action, you know, and he has a couple of successful months, runs it up to 400,000. But then over a series of two weeks, loses the whole

Starting point is 00:26:37 400,000, borrows from all of his friends again, because he paid him back last time. This time he borrows more, gets staked again that he can't pay his bills. That's a miserable, that's a tough existence. And so that's why money management is more important than poker skills. Now, how specifically by running, I remember, I remember a story where my wife thought I was a madman. It was 1997. She thought I was a man. I'm was 1997. She thought I was a madman. I'm wondering how many stories you have like that, but let's start with this one. So I remember saying, as soon as I'm worth a million dollars, I'm going to get staked. That meant based on what my house was worth,

Starting point is 00:27:19 on stocks, all the stuff that I had in my life. And so I determined I hit the million dollar mark. This is in assets. Yeah. And assets call it 1997. I was on the way down and I was like, all right, I'm getting staked. I'm going to have Ted for stake me, you know, cause people were lining up to stake me. I had pretty good results. And so I'm going to have Ted for stake stake me. And I was celebrating, honey, I'm getting staked. But I wasn't celebrating the fact I was getting staked. I was celebrating the fact that I could hit a million dollars in net worth and get staked. No one in history had done that to that point that I have ever heard of. Everybody else would go, hey, let's get $200,000 from the house. Let's sell a car. Let's sell some stocks. Not me. So I was

Starting point is 00:28:06 celebrating. And my wife, I just remember in a hotel in San Francisco, I was all like, yes. And my wife just was staring at me like with daggers. Like, what's wrong with you? You're getting staked and you're celebrating. But that wasn't it. The point was, I was going to draw this line in the sand. And I did it. And I got staked for the next three or four or five years until 2001. And Ted Forrest was great. Like if I had money due, my bills were a lot less than if I had 5,000 a month in bills $7,000 or whatever it was, he would just like press a button and send me the money. And I was getting staked and I had no worries. I played less.

Starting point is 00:28:50 I spent more time with my family at that point. And then all of a sudden, 2001, I won $500,000 in tournaments quickly. And Ted was entitled to like $400,000 of it. Maybe I won, yeah, $400,000 of it or whatever. And I was more than happy. He had faith in me and he made a bunch of money because of me. And that was great. But that's what discipline it takes to have great money management. And now today I have a system where I'll only risk $10,000 a day. When I'm playing.

Starting point is 00:29:27 You have to look at the percentage. Look at the percentage. Look at the percentage. $10,000 is not a lot. So kids only risk $10,000 a day. No, just kidding. It's a percentage. It's a percentage. I'm proud of that because actually if I could translate to people at home,

Starting point is 00:29:41 I don't know what that would be for someone at home. Take a guess. I mean, now I have to take a guess at your net home, I don't know what that would be for someone at home. Take a guess. I mean, I, I, I'm not, I have to take a guess at your net worth. I don't know. I would forget net worth or liquid assets. Yeah. I would say it, it's something that you can comfortably lose and not have it materially affect you. Correct. Correct. Correct. And, and I just figured, and so for me, that was a big step. I implemented this five years ago and and it's been super successful for me because 10,000 doesn't last too long in the games I play in. Right. But I can't always tell when I've lost 10, whether I'm the reason I implemented it. I can't always tell if I'm playing poorly or if I'm just getting unlucky. There's always there's always mystery there, mystery surrounding how

Starting point is 00:30:26 good you're playing. And so I just decided, like, for me, it's been a great system. If I lose it, I'm like, all right, I can't do anything. I can't play for 24 hours or whatever until I wake up. All right, well, I might as well go to the movie. I might sleep a couple of times, a couple shifts, watch some movies in the room, chill, and show up fresh the next day. And there's, I don't want to lose 10 today. I just did it yesterday. So you come up, like, ready to play, and you've thought about, did I do everything right? So, I mean, that's been a good system for me for the last five or six years. How would you have reacted had you not won? I think it would have been devastating, but I would have still had 350,

Starting point is 00:31:10 400,000. But you have to understand at that point, I was already, there were four majors per year. And then there were like nine world series. So that year they were say 11 world series of poker championships. And then there were like three other ones you really wanted to win, which I considered majors. And one of them was the Bicycle Club main event. And I won that one in 1988 in August. So I'd already won one of the majors and was all over the poker press. And so to win that was just kind of like,

Starting point is 00:31:42 you know, that was the greatest moment, maybe the greatest moment in my poker career, just to win that was just kind of like, you know, that, that was the greatest moment, maybe the greatest moment in my poker career, just to win that. Um, it's nice to back it up 13 more times. So speaking of backing it up at what point before 1989, so I know we're doing a little memento style, like chronologically fragmented approach here, but bear with me. The, I don't know why I keep looking at you. You look like, you look like very pensive. Uh, the, the question was, which I appreciate. It's like thinking hard. Uh, the, um, the question is when did Johnny show you his hand? This is what I've read. Maybe this is also just myth

Starting point is 00:32:19 and you saw something, or at least you told him you saw something. Well, the interesting thing about this, this is more for poker people. I'll try to make it so everybody can understand. So the blinds were 5,000 and 10,000 when we were heads up. And first thing, I had whispered to Johnny Chan. We played 32 minutes. I had whispered at the beginning, you're going to have to play perfect and get lucky to beat me. Now, if the cameras had

Starting point is 00:32:45 been working in those days, that's one that would have been played a lot and people would have said, boy, that kid's cocky. But I wish we had just so Chan could hear. And exactly four hands before, I had had the ace seven of diamonds. I still remember. And I opened for thirty five thousand. So you have to think in terms of how much money you're raising. OK, so that's three and a half times the big blind. That's how they look at it these days. A three point five is pretty big. But then Shan called the thirty five and raised one hundred and thirty thousand more. Almost twice the size of the pot. These are unheard of big numbers. And a mental note went off. I said, I'm not going to play with him this hand, but he's stepping on the aggression now. I can see

Starting point is 00:33:32 he's putting a lot of money. He's become very aggressive. I'm going to fold this. I don't like folding it because everybody else in the world back then would put a lot of money in with any ace, especially a seven suited. So I'm going to fold this. But I noticed he's changed his style. And my mind was just completely encompassed in how am I going to win this. Exactly four hands later, I looked at two black nines, and it was like the script was already written. I'm going to open for $35,000. He's going to raise $130,000. And I'm going to just pile in $700,000. Just boom, that quick. And so it was like, sometimes scripts are written from hands. And so I did that. He did it. I waited. I didn't want to give anything away. I didn't want to show any excitement. Didn't want to do anything that

Starting point is 00:34:17 would change him from doing what he was going to do. He re-raised $130,000. The minute those chips hit the pot, I said, I'm all in. That's like, he started the hand with $600,000. Boom. I'm raising all your chips right back on you. And it was two black nines, a pretty strong hand. And now he started studying and thinking. And I thought to myself, if he had ace-king or ace-queen or ace-jack or ace-ten, he would have put the money in already. And those hands are very close.

Starting point is 00:34:48 Like maybe I'm a 12-10, 13-10 favorite. I don't want to play a pot where I'm only 12-10 or 13-10. I don't want to leave it to chance. I also thought that he would call with any pair above tens instantly. So at that point, I'm thinking, wow, what does he have? Do I want him to call or not? And I'd been around poker long enough where I didn't want to influence the action by saying, by acting strong or acting weak. I said, just let things play out and see where it lands.

Starting point is 00:35:18 But if he had king, queen, I didn't want him to call him only a small favorite. When he had the ace, seven of spades, I was kind of surprised. Also, he would have called right away with eights or sevens, which is a great position for me. When he had a seven of spades, I was kind of surprised. It was a little weaker. And I think he decided this kid is tough. He and I had faced off in the 1988 World Series. He'd seen me. We'd faced off in August at the tournament I won when I won the major at the bicycle club that I just mentioned. And so he knew that I was there. He'd even come out in Esquire magazine in January and said, this kid is going to win the main event as soon as he learns to tuck it in a little bit. That was more fuel for my fire, reading myself in Esquire magazine. That was a big thing, man. Back then, you know, I mean,

Starting point is 00:36:01 nobody talked about poker. And so I just i just i and so when he called with a7 of spades i was kind of surprised but again i thought already he's gonna find a way to outdraw me i mean it's just like it's not that i felt the negativity it's more like you have to be prepared for him to hit it he's been lucky you've watched him get lucky and so i mean when that six of spades hit i was you know i, I was in heaven. I was going to tell you about the question that Antonio asked me that I told you about last night. Let's jump into it. Okay.

Starting point is 00:36:37 Another subject switch for Phil. Yeah. Get used to it. Antonio is a mutual friend. Very, very savvy investor and entrepreneur. We can say his last name, right? Sure. Antonio Gracias. Antonio Gracias, amazing guy. He's on the board of Tesla, SpaceX.

Starting point is 00:36:51 Really great friends with Elon Musk. That's how we met originally. Yeah. We met at an Elon Musk party. How lucky were we to be there? It was like, how did they lose bracelets? And we ended up with like, I don't know. Anyway, well, especially me. This guy, I mean, come on, 14 bracelets.

Starting point is 00:37:07 Okay, fine. No, I mean, it was pretty amazing to be there. But anyway, so, you know, Antonio Gracious, last year my ego was flying out of control. I won a bracelet. And then for three months straight, I was losing. Maybe 10 sessions. I've never lost more than three sessions that I can remember for years, lost 10 sessions in a row. My ego's flying out of control, right? I'm more tempted than ever by these beautiful, smart women, you know? And so I'm

Starting point is 00:37:40 treading on this ego path and I'm having fun every day. Just popping from, I'm doing events in New York, Chicago appearances. Just like, I just feel like, I just feel like, I felt like I was attracting everybody. And I'm just having a blast with it, you know. And I'm in the Hamptons, you know, and just all this fun stuff is happening. And so it's leading to a little bit of a car wreck for me. And then Antonio Gracious asked me, he said, Phil, how many bracelets would you have without your wife? And I wanted to answer selfishly, well, I might have more because I'd play more tournaments. But I knew that wasn't true.

Starting point is 00:38:20 And I was like, nine? He said, you have 14. Nine? You really think you'd have that many without her? And I thought, wow. Maybe seven? And the minute that that connected with me, this egotistical guy walking around, not mistreating anybody. Nice to everybody. I've learned that, you know, respect everybody. I've learned that. Um, but still flying high

Starting point is 00:38:52 in his own like jet stream, you know, just kind of like thump boom. And a week later, um, my iPhone picture was, I had two iPhone pictures, one on the outside, which was Clinton and I, and then the other one on the inside, George Bush and I, right? So don't come at me. I said Democrats and Republicans. But I erased one and put my wife up. And I erased the other and I put my wife and sons up over the next two weeks. And as I did it, I thought, wow, this is the Antonio effect. Right.

Starting point is 00:39:29 You know, he's I think I think if Alon's ever struggled, which, of course, he never has. I think Antonio's helped him out. He's just been amazing. And so just that one question just kind of I felt like it rerouted my life a little bit. And then in four sessions in my home game, I won so much money. I won like 4X what I'd lost over the last three months. And I just became more solidly entrenched in the process. Like that was the key. Family first. Then you have your fun movie star life where all these great things happen. But family first. And so that was significant for me.

Starting point is 00:40:12 Just that question. Yeah. So on a related note, this is a question from Facebook. Melanie Nelson. What's the secret to his long lasting marriage? I just love to know. I mean, I'm going to tweak a little bit, but what other things have you done? Right.

Starting point is 00:40:36 I mean, it's what other things have you worked on? How have you worked on making it this long? I mean, it's a rarity in this world, at least in the US. It's rare, you know, and it has it's not always easy. Right. world, at least in the U.S. It's rare, you know, and it's not always easy. I mean, I think one thing is that, you know, I still have great desire for my wife. I still lust after her. Honey, I love you. And that's important to keep that. It's important to keep that. I think for me, you know, I think my wife was probably ready to leave me in 99. Like, who the hell is this guy?

Starting point is 00:41:08 I married a diamond in the rough. He's still in the rough. You're still a piece of coal. I mean, you were supposed to change and grow up. You're a smart guy. Her threatening to leave me devastated me. But my wife's smart. So she didn't do anything drastic.

Starting point is 00:41:26 We went into therapy together. And I worked really hard at all my faults. Too much ego. Too self-centered. Too narcissistic. Blah, blah, blah. Right? A lot of stuff that was really important to work on.

Starting point is 00:41:40 And I saw the truth in all of that. And I was thinking about it every week. We'd spend an hour and a half, two hours, three hours a week. And, you know, figuring out how things I might have done wrong to her, mostly unintentionally. Sometimes I'd be trying to do her a favor. But, of course, sometimes women think differently than men. Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus, right?

Starting point is 00:42:05 So I learned a lot about that stuff, and it changed my primary relationship. So I grew for a year and a half, massive growth. And what I found is all the other relationships changed. One of my friends, John Bonetti, was crying in the car. Phil, it's the first time you've listened to me in 10 years, crying. Wow. And I was like, that's my wife's effect yeah you know so in changing the primary relationship and focusing and becoming better

Starting point is 00:42:30 it made me smarter and wiser and all my other relationships and it helped my poker too because poker is a people game yeah and so so i think so i at the end of it, I was like, well, she made me into a better man. And we ended up coming out like this. And so I remember six months later, I'm like, man, I miss this growth. I want to go back into therapy just so I can get better and grow more. And so, I mean, that's one thing that's been really smart for us. And then, you know, I mean, and then, you know, in the 30s, we all know that a lot of women are leaving men. And in the 40s, a lot of men are leaving women. The math and the science are undisputed. And so when I struggled a little bit with whether or not, you know,

Starting point is 00:43:18 I wanted to be in this relationship, I asked her to change a few things. And we went into therapy together and she did. And so we just keep growing. We keep getting better and better, better understanding of each other. And, you know, and I think now at my age, I'm probably safe to be with her for another 25 years. I know how to avoid the temptations, you know, um, and I play with fire a little bit sometimes and that I'm in those positions and having fun. Um, but it's just like, I just don't think after 27 years of not cheating, I'm going to go out and cheat. Yeah. Woo. How do your poker skills help you away from the table?

Starting point is 00:44:10 You mentioned negotiation. Are there any other areas in which you can think poker has helped you? Well, I don't know. I have to think about that. Maybe the answer is everything. I don't know. I have to think about that. I mean, maybe the answer is everything. I don't know. I mean, it could be everything. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:27 I mean, it just, I want, a lot of my friends who love poker, who are not professional players by any stretch of the imagination, but I had one friend of mine, very well-educated guy. I mean, he has a tattoo of a semicolon on his forearm. It's like, what? Very well-educated guy, John, who says that he learned all he needs to know about sort of navigating the world from his learning of poker. I have one from my friend Alan Mishra, who cured tennis elbow.

Starting point is 00:44:53 I didn't know you knew Alan. Oh, you know Alan too? Alan, yeah, Alan is one of the foremost experts in something called platelet-rich plasma, PRP injections. So they take out your whole blood, they spin it in a centrifuge, and they isolate the growth factors and then re-inject it locally into injuries like tennis elbow. He's been in the New York Times. Fascinating guy. Amazing guy. He came to me in 2002 and said, I have this PRP thing. So I got involved with him, but I'm like, dude, you're going to change the world. And he's like, that's just what I needed to hear.

Starting point is 00:45:26 And so I've invited him to my poker camps, and we hang out. And right now we're in a suicide football league together. We have one team left. What is a suicide football league? It's just one where you have to pick a winner each week. Yeah. But you can only pick a team once per year. So by the end, you're picking Cleveland and some other teams that haven't won many games. Got it. Okay. But anyway, um, uh, Alan told me that,

Starting point is 00:45:50 you know, playing poker has helped him read his patients. These high profile patients come to him and he says, well, did you hurt your knee doing this? And if they hesitate, he's like, no true answers coming. Like he can, have you been taking your medicine the last three weeks? And he can tell whether they're lying or telling the truth. And that's good for him because then he can design a better program for them. Fantastic doctor. Hard to get ahold of. Very, very, very, very popular, competent guy. Well, he's the guy that invented the, you know, the surgery that Kobe had on the knee where he went to Germany. Alan invented PRP. Alan owns the U S patents on PRP. And yet when Kobe goes over to Germany, no one mentions Alan Mishra's name as the inventor. It's some doctor in Germany. It's amazing what he can do. Imagine this, folks. You have your own blood.

Starting point is 00:46:49 He spins out the PRP, okay, the growth hormone. Let's just say that you have Alzheimer's. They pour the PRP on the area with Alzheimer's. He thinks that may be one area that he can help. Say you had a heart attack. They've already proven that your heart will come back 85% better with your own blood. So imagine, we've been searching the top of the Himalayas for amazing things. When it's inside your blood, all this ability to cure. And Alan's working on some curing cancer stuff, which is amazing.

Starting point is 00:47:17 And I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm naive. I believe he has a decent shot to... I believe he's going to shot to, I believe he's gonna cure cancer. He's, I mean, just this small world story, I mean, it's worth pointing out. I mean, I'm not originally from the Bay Area.

Starting point is 00:47:37 You're not originally from the Bay Area. I got advice very early on. This is on my answering machine, actually, way back in the day from a mentor. And he said, you're the average of the five people you associate with most. And I was like, huh. And that's been one of the pieces of advice that's guided a lot of my decisions, one of which was where to move to live. So the Bay Area, you just happen to bump into people like Alan Mishra. It's amazing. When you hear the word... Yeah, he's a crazy guy. He just said, hey, he just went to the Nobel Prize winners and said, hey, I have a new concept.

Starting point is 00:48:07 You know how we're trying to starve cancer cells? I'm just going to feed them platelet-rich plasma and see how that works. Yeah. You know? So there's been some progress. Yeah. So I'll probably sound stupid. You can keep this in, but I'll probably sound stupid saying he's going to, I think he's going to cure cancer.

Starting point is 00:48:22 But I'm sticking by it. Hey, hey, hey. He's certainly cured a lot of other stuff. So yeah, he's a brilliant guy. No one knows his name. Yeah, no, it's true. When you hear the word successful, who is the first person who comes to mind for you and why? Wow. I mean, I think of, I think of some of my best friends. I think of Chamath Palihapitiya. I think of Bill Lee. People don't really, unless you're a business insider, you haven't heard of these guys.

Starting point is 00:48:55 Can you explain for, why is that? If you're thinking, what Elon Musk's done is beyond success. What he's doing. You know, he thinks we live in a matrix. He's sending people to Mars. He has Tesla. He has SpaceX. That's extraordinary. Sorry, I was thinking Chamath Palihapiti and Billy. Yeah. So why are these two very famous investors at this point? Again, nobody in the room knows their name. So why are they, what makes them successful to you?

Starting point is 00:49:31 Well, the thing I like about, I define success a little bit differently. So Chamath, I mean, I tease him that he got lucky. He didn't want to go to Facebook. They just kept giving him more and more stock. He's like, I don't know if this thing's going to work. So finally, he took the stock and went. So, you know, each point is worth what? 2 billion now? Yeah. He's done pretty well. So, but it's what he's done. He plays poker great. He, his family's great. He has an amazing wife, Bridget, and three young children. And I see the effort that he puts

Starting point is 00:50:09 into like, you know, they used to, as a lot of people in Silicon Valley, the three nannies, the maids, all that kind of stuff. And these guys have gone a little bit away from that. And Shamath, he's been cooking meals for his wife and kids a little bit, which I've never done. But it's amazing to me. He's put family first and yet still changed the world, you know, deployed billions, one point two billion dollars now out into the field. He's crushing it. Right. And then I look at my friend, Billy, who, you know, spends a fair amount of time in his backyard with his young kids and and, you know, deals come to him. As you know, he's really good friends with Elon Musk. I think when Elon flies over to Paris to do a climate change, there's one other guy on the plane.

Starting point is 00:51:08 It's Bill. And Bill because Bill's brilliant. And you want Bill with you. Because Bill is going to help you write your climate speech. When the Gigafactory opens, you want Billy next to you. And so these guys, they're living, they're having really nice lives. And Bill is one of the best angel investors in history. Maybe the best angel investor in history. We don't know, but he's been involved with, but he sits in his backyard and I'll go, I, what was it?

Starting point is 00:51:41 Two days ago, I went and we had lunch together and we had a drink and just kind of chilled, you know. And I'll go to his house once a week and spend four hours in the afternoon sitting in the backyard. He is, you know, a one-year-old and a three-year-old and a six-year-old. And they're coming by, always spicing up the atmosphere. And it just, I enjoy that. I enjoy the friendship thing. I didn't get that. I didn't get that until 2010. I was all about poker and family. And then I just, I kind of realized it's seeped into my life, the importance of strong friendships. Definitely. So

Starting point is 00:52:18 there's a concept of forgiveness that's hugely important. And so for me personally, when I was studying Buddhism, we spent a week at Esalen, Kathy and I, my wife and I, a week at Esalen. We weren't allowed to talk. Esalen, for those guys who don't know, is a sort of idyllic spot in Big Sur. Esalen is a spiritual place that was famous from the 60s. It has natural hot springs and it's really fun. And so when I studied Buddhism, the concept of forgiveness was important. I had someone steal $28,000 from me. Now understand, I was staking this guy. I was feeding his family. Of that $28,000 that he had online that he stole from me, $14,000 was his.

Starting point is 00:53:08 All he had to do was call me and say, Phil, I need $7,000. You take $7,000. We'll leave $14,000 on. Instead, he chose to steal $28,000 from me. When I got the phone call that this had happened, I said, what happened? And I was in shock. This guy just stole $28,000 from me. I'm sending money to his family. I'm staking him. What's going on here? And I called my friend, John Bonetti. And he's like, fry him. Release the evidence. Crush him. Destroy him for life. We had the evidence, neat pile of

Starting point is 00:53:48 evidence released on the internet. He's destroyed for life. But what good does that do me? What good? And so I was just furious and steaming and whatever. And I called the guy and he was crying on the phone. And I finally just decided, honey, you and I are going out to dinner. We're going to have the most expensive dinner and the most expensive bottle of wine I can have. Because my life is amazing. And I've spent one hour or two hours of my time steaming because someone stole from me.

Starting point is 00:54:19 We went out, we had a really nice dinner. At the end of that dinner, I said, I'm going to completely forgive the guy. Nothing was ever released. But here's the beauty. Here's what I didn't expect. I got paid back in full. This guy defends me to everybody on the planet.

Starting point is 00:54:41 My wife said, he's turned into like a protector of yours. So now this is a big profile guy. He's defending me to everybody, telling everybody what a great guy I am. And I remember the other amazing thing about this. This happened on a Monday night. I could have released it. All hell breaks loose. The internet just goes crazy in the poker world. Instead, I flew to Connecticut to play in a poker tournament. Ten thousand dollar buy in on Friday. You can't make this up. I saw the guy walk down me in the hallway. I shook his hand.

Starting point is 00:55:15 It hurt a little bit. It hurt a little bit, but I shook his hand. I wouldn't give him a hug. I shook his hand. But I never had to worry about him again after shaking his hand. I wouldn't give him a hug. I shook his hand, but I never had to worry about him again after shaking his hand, right? This is the freaky thing. I played in that tournament. Now, if I were at war with him, and I don't know, he couldn't say anything negative about me, but he might just start throwing mud trying to come up with stuff, right? I don't know. He

Starting point is 00:55:41 could never attack me, but people would make shit up, right? So rather than some mud throwing contest, my mind is focused on the poker tournament. You can't make, I just, I won $280,000. Now for third place, but 280,000, exactly 10 times. What you lost. What had been stolen from me. So I $280,000 exactly 10 times. What you lost. What had been stolen from me. So I got the $280,000. The guy paid me back in full, and he's been a protector of mine.

Starting point is 00:56:13 All because I forgave this really bad act. Bad actor act. Right? So I love the concept of forgiveness. This isn't the only time. I have another great forgiveness story. In fact, I'm going to tell it, because if anything makes this edit, I want the forgiveness stuff to make the edit. Okay. Another guy who I used to play poker with in the 80s in Madison, Wisconsin, he made sure that I

Starting point is 00:56:36 was banned from the big game. He didn't want me to play in the big game in Madison. He banned me. So there's a lot of animosity towards him. Was he afraid of losing or why didn't he want you to play? Partly that. Probably thought I was acting up a little bit, but I think it was mostly he didn't want me in the game because I was winning so much money in Madison. He banned me for three years. I moved in 1993. In 1994, I saw him with some other friends and I invited him out to a movie. We went out to a dinner and a movie and I was nice as I could be. And I completely forgave him.

Starting point is 00:57:13 Okay. In your head or? In my head. Yeah. And sometimes that's an act where I'll lie down on a bed. I'll close my eyes and I'll try to meditate and I'll send love towards that person that I hate. I'll just waves of love, whatever that means to the individual. But when I'm doing that, I usually am on the bed a long time because then I'm like, well, I have to send love to all the people I love too. So I'm there 20 minutes, but I don't know. I can't explain it to you. Then the

Starting point is 00:57:41 very next time I see someone like that who I've sent love to, it's like they've received it. So did they just notice that my demeanor towards some change that I'm happy to see them or what happened? I don't know. I can't explain it. So what happened with this guy? So this guy calls me three years later and led me to and said, hey, listen, I recommended you for this deal. And I made like $14 million. So I got to tell you, I'm into forgiveness. So I forgive everybody. So now, but I haven't had, I haven't had some of the really horrible stuff happen, you know, like, uh, I don't know, rape or stuff like that. I don't, I wouldn't know how to counsel someone who said really traumatic stuff happened, you know, but I know for me, forgiving people stealing from me and all this other stuff has led to amazing results. And I have no hatred in my heart. I get to walk around happy every day, you know, and again, I think it's

Starting point is 00:58:42 really huge. I'll say it again. When you're walking down any hallway and anybody in the planet walks towards you, I don't have to turn left or right. I think it's also, you know, I remember thinking to myself at one point that if you're offended easily, because I am offended easily, Have some anger issues sometimes. You're a bad resource allocator. It's a bad use of this finite resource, which is your energy and calories and hours on this planet when you're awake. So for me, it's like, all right, well, it's kind of a two-for-one if you forgive people. You get the altruism, but you also get the practicality. And then you get these unforeseen ripple effects later.

Starting point is 00:59:30 I wasn't expecting the ripple effects yeah but it happened yeah i mean it's just wonderful i'm like wow this is this is something i'm going to do the rest of my life um so yeah i've had guys like i've had guys write 80 negative blogs about me about the way i play poker never cross the line to personal yeah maybe a little bit in there and forgave those guys. I knew this guy who attacked me all this time that actually kind of loved me. So I forgave him and we moved on and we're friends. So I've never written, I've never written anything negative about him ever, but it's okay. I don't feel the need to, you know. So I want to maybe take a hard left turn and talk about rampage. We're turning away from forgiveness? I'm going to rampage. From forgiveness to rampage.

Starting point is 01:00:12 Don't worry. We're not going to end on a sour note. Somebody knew what that rampage was about. We're not going to end on a sour note. So you told a story last night, right? Well, I was having some ball back, let's be honest. And you told the I'm going on the rampage story. Now, was this in Europe or was it somewhere else? So we had a $300,000 buying tournament in May. And I decided there was a 300K, there was another 100K, another 100K. And so I thought, you know what? I've been bad at raising money to play poker. I have the one guy stake me. I've made him like one point five million. It's been great. But let me try this other way. And so I reached out to my friends, but I wasn't sure they would respond. So I reached out.

Starting point is 01:00:58 So I thought, but I only want to reach out once. So in this email, I'm going to list. I'm going to say the first thing, it's a high risk investment. You're putting up $540,000 for me to play six tournaments, high risk. So be aware, you're probably going to lose your money. That's how I led the email. And then I said, I listed the events when they would be on television, because it's kind of fun when you're staking someone to watch them live on television. They're playing your money. You're live on television. Like, that's my horse, man. I mean, that's like better than having somebody in the Kentucky Derby. The Derby only lasts 60 seconds. Yeah. They got to watch me play. You got to be nervous for hours. They got to watch me. Yes. They got to watch me play 20 hours of live television in this event or more than that.

Starting point is 01:01:43 And so it's kind of cool. So I sent it out and I also put wiring instructions. And I said, let's see what happens. $540,000. So I'll take, I'll take a 10% free roll and I'll put in the first 54,000. That way I'm playing for 20%. All right, let's see what happens. Well, within 20 hours I sold up. And then people were mad at me because I didn't get him in. So, so now I'm playing this $300,000 buying tournament and it's live on Fox Sportsnet and we're on day two or whatever. I think it's sold out at 48 players. We're on day two, it's late and maybe even day three and I'm feeling boxed in. What does that mean? I have a young great player on my right, Dan Smith, another great player, Fedor Holtz on my left, who's been crushing it

Starting point is 01:02:31 in 2016, just crushing it. And there's somebody else there. And I just felt like they're onto me. They're playing me too well. And I said, screw this. I might bust myself, but I'm going to try something else. I said, this is it. They're just, they're too attuned to me. Well, they also have years of tape on you. Correct. So I said, I'm on a rampage, raise it. And I'm throwing the chips in and I'm saying I'm on a rampage like once every 15 seconds. I'm on a rampage. I'm on a, I raised 10 pots in a row. And they're like, from being this calm, patient Phil to'm on a rampage. I'm on a, I raised 10 pots in a row. And they're like from being this calm, patient Phil to all of a sudden raising. And they're just like, I just saw the looks in their faces. What the hell is going on here? Raise it, raise it, raise it.

Starting point is 01:03:15 Well, the whole cards are flashing to the world. Nine deuce offsuit, jack four offsuit, you know, seven deuce offsuit, just nothing. I'm not even looking at my hands. I didn't even look at a hand during my rampage. Raise it, raise it, raise it. I'm on a rampage. I'm on a rampage. I'm winning every pot, accumulating all these chips. And I'm like, all right, I messed up their flow. Right. And I'm, and if they do call, I'm betting the flop, I'm betting the turn, firing, just throwing chips in there. And I'm saying, I'm on a rampage. I'm on a rampage. It was great television. I'm sure. Two things happened. One, I'm finally in the big blind. All the backers are like, my horse is on a rampage. Oh, yeah. Oh, I got those emails the next day. Trust me. So now I'm

Starting point is 01:03:57 in the big blind. I hadn't looked at my whole cards. There's a guy in the small blind. And I said, I'm on a rampage. Everybody else in fold. they don't dare raise my blind. He's like all in. He puts 2 million in. I looked down at Queens. I call 700,000. He has a nine and a 10. I went that point. I'm at 1.4 million and I'm on a rampage. I'm on a rampage. I'm going on and on about it. And finally, finally I slowed down. Now the next day, so I did this. No one understands on the planet why I did this. This is one reason why I'm a bad poker player, they say. Right? What I'm trying to do is just lose my mind, be crazy, and let them know you're not bluffing me for this next 20 hands.

Starting point is 01:04:38 You are not going to bluff me. You might beat me, but if you re-raise me, I'm calling all your re-raises, too. I'm telling them, you re-raise me, I'm calling. your re-raises too. I'm telling them, you re-raise me, I'm calling. So let's just get it on. You know, I don't, it just doesn't matter to me. It's all threat and bluster. And I probably would have called them if they re-raised me. Because that's just what I was going to do, you know.

Starting point is 01:04:56 And so, but it really changed the dynamics of the game. Now, of course, the next day, I had like five different investors emailing me. Phil, don't lose it like that again. Phil, what were you thinking? Phil, what are you doing? Why are you playing nine deuce offsuit? Why are you playing jack three offsuit? You know, all of these commentary, you know, and I'm just like, I'm like, doesn't anybody see the brilliance of what I did?

Starting point is 01:05:20 No, they see the insanity of what I just did. They're one in the same, right? It's like everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. Custom auto trainer Mike Tyson. You have a pretty theory. Now let me go on a rampage. So we're going to wrap up with... By the way, some of the highest ratings ever in poker history.

Starting point is 01:05:39 Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. I mean, to watch me go crazy like that, those clips have been watched just a ton. Ladies and gentlemen, Phil Hellmuth. That's great. I really enjoyed that. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would

Starting point is 01:06:07 you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to 4hourworkweek.com. That's 4hourworkweek.com all spelled out and just

Starting point is 01:06:52 drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This podcast is brought to you by Mizzen and Main. Many of you longtime listeners know how I feel about Mizzen and Mane. They make the most comfortable dress shirts in the world, quite possibly. They use advanced performance fabrics, which provides stretch and comfort, but that's not the real selling point to me. That's all great. It's all really good, but they are the only dress shirts, so to speak, that I travel with because you don't have to iron them. No more steaming, no more headache. I can just bunch them up and throw them in a bag, pull them out, and no one will be the wiser.

Starting point is 01:07:32 They're fancy enough for important dinners, but made from athletic sweat-wicking material. So they're all-purpose. And hundreds of pro athletes love these shirts, including NFL All-Pro J.J. Watt. And last time these guys were on the show, they sold out of every item they featured, every single SKU. So if you're interested in getting a shirt, you might want to check them out. On the faster side, just go to Tim.blog forward slash shirts, and you can receive $50 off when you purchase three or more shirts.

Starting point is 01:08:03 So check it out. Tim.blog forward slash shirts. This episode is brought to you by Movement Watches. That is spelled M-V-M-T, Movement Watches. I first became aware of this company back in 2014 when they were a brand, brand new baby company because they won first place in Shopify's Build a Business competition. The founders are two college dropouts who wanted to wear fancy watches, but had one wee little problem. They couldn't afford fancy watches. So they decided to scratch their own itch. Since then, their high quality affordable watches have gone from startup to more than

Starting point is 01:08:39 1 million watches sold across 160 countries. It's an awesome success story. And when you check out the product, you'll know why. They offer classic design, quality construction, and many different modern styles. So you can really pick one that suits you. You might want to start one. I would suggest, probably appeal to a lot of folks out there. It's the Classic Black Silver. So search Classic Black Silver. The guys at Movement have a great offer. For listeners of this podcast, they're offering 15% off your entire purchase with free shipping and free returns. If you're dissatisfied for any reason, and they are very, very famous for their customer support, just visit movementwatches.com forward slash Tim. That's M-V-M-T watches.com forward slash Tim. That's MVMTwatches.com forward slash Tim.

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The Tim Ferriss Show - #260: Setting Goals, Making Money, and Overcoming Tough Times -- Phil Hellmuth

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The Tim Ferriss Show - #260: Setting Goals, Making Money, and Overcoming Tough Times -- Phil Hellmuth

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