The Tim Ferriss Show - #379: Dita Von Teese — The Queen of Burlesque

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Starting point is 00:02:53 first job post. Terms and conditions apply. But check it out, linkedin.com slash Tim. Hello, boys and girls. This is Tim Ferriss, and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is always my job, each and every episode, to speak with a world-class performer. And today, performer, I suppose, is very literal in a lot of respects. And this wide-ranging conversation will involve my guest, Dita Von Teese. Dita Von Teese is the biggest name in burlesque in the world since Gypsy Rose Lee, who was born in 1911. Dita is credited with bringing the art form back into the spotlight. She is renowned for her iconic martini glass act and dazzling haute couture striptease costumes adorned with hundreds of thousands of Swarovski crystals.

Starting point is 00:03:43 This burlesque superheroine, as she's been called by Vanity Fair, is the performer of choice at high-profile events for designers such as Marc Jacobs, Christian Louboutin, excuse me for my French, Louis Vuitton, Chopin, and Cartier, among others. She's the author of the New York Times bestseller Your Beauty Mark, subtitled The Ultimate Guide to Eccentric Glamour, and has a namesake lingerie collection available internationally at prominent retailers. She can be found on the socials, on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, at Dita Vontese, D-I-T-A-V-O-N-T-E-E-S-E. Dita, welcome to the show. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:04:23 And I have wanted to meet for so long. Amanda Palmer first piqued my curiosity. And there's so many directions we could go, but I thought we would start with a word, haute couture, which we started to talk about a little bit because I didn't know what it meant. What is haute couture? Well, I mean, it's like a term that's used very loosely these days. Everyone wants to call something haute couture if it's like extra special, but it really

Starting point is 00:04:50 means high sewing, like a high level of sewing. And so, when you talk about a haute couture designer, it's, you know, there's like a ministry of haute couture in France where you kind of get the stamp and you can call your clothing haute couture. So, it's kind of loosely used, you know, can call your clothing haute couture. So, it's kind of loosely used. You'll find like haute couture donuts and things like that, but it's really not accurate. So, I always say that I do haute strip. So, it's like a high level of strip, but wearing haute couture costumes, which means they're made with extravagance and excellence that is not something you know, something you can buy in

Starting point is 00:05:26 a store. So, speaking of things that you can't buy easily in a store, because you forged your own path in a lot of respects, I would like to take a 90-degree turn, I suppose, from where most people would expect me to go and talk about vintage cars. So, it's my understanding that you've done very well in collecting, flipping, refurbishing vintage cars. Yes. Where does that come from? Well, it first started in the early 90s. I was big into the swing dance scene and pinup, you know, a pinup model. And I had a boyfriend that drove a 1930s car.

Starting point is 00:06:08 And I sort of thought I should have a 1930s car. So I got my first car, a 1939 Chrysler New Yorker when I was in my early 20s. And I love that car. And I used to drive it all around Orange County where I lived. And I sold that car not that long ago, maybe like 10 years ago. And I bought it for like $8,000 in the 90s and sold it to someone in Germany for like $30,000. So I thought this is kind of, I should do this more. So I started buying more cars.

Starting point is 00:06:44 I met a really great guy that helps me with my cars. And so he goes to all the auctions and finds things at a good price. And then we fix it up. I drive it for a while because also for me with vintage cars, I like cars from the thirties, forties and fifties, but with vintage cars, there's kind of, it's like a relationship. I've had cars that I had a bad relationship with, like the brakes going out. And, uh, you know, there's a, I had the 65 Jaguar S type for a while that I loved. It was so beautiful. I actually bought it on eBay while I was drinking red wine and taking Ambien, which was probably not the best idea. But so I picked up this car and it was so beautiful. I picked it up when I was sober. It was still beautiful. I was glad I bought it, but

Starting point is 00:07:22 it was not a good fit for me because the brakes kept going out on this car and you could imagine that's really terrifying yeah it sounds like a downside one moment in particular that i remember was i was pulling up to the playboy mansion and you know this is like in the 90s when it was like these amazing parties happening and i remember going up the hill and knowing the brakes were starting to fail and just leaning out the window to all the valets brakes don't work and they all ran and you know i was going up the hill quite slowly at that point but all these like valet guys running in their red coats to stop the car so and then i just got out went to the party and you know had the car taken care of the next day but it was one of those things where i couldn't get i kept taking it to mechanics and they were like the brakes are fine the brakes are fine and then I'd get in it again

Starting point is 00:08:08 and then they go out on me so um I feel like you have to have the right fit with a vintage car and so I I buy them I drive them and I decide if it's the car for me or not like do is it easy for me to drive do I love how it feels to drive it does it leave me on the side of the road or not? And so I've kind of just, right now I have three cars. I have a 1953 Cadillac that I've had for a long time, a Fleetwood. I've had that one for a while and I love that one. And I have a 1940 LaSalle, which is a Cadillac. It's a convertible, like a big black gangster car. Really beautiful, but I don't drive it that much. And then I just bought a car. It's called a Woodill Wildfire. And it's a convertible. It looks like the Disney Cars car. So, I bought that one actually to flip it because it's super, super rare. And it's not really the kind of car that I can cruise around

Starting point is 00:09:00 LA in because it'll be like a really, you know, it'll go to Pebble Beach for sure next year. So I'll drive it for like a year. I'm having it all done up and then I'll take pictures in it, drive it, enjoy it. And then, you know, flip that one. Now, is part of the ability to flip these cars associated with the fact that you have driven them or is that a selling point or is that not part of the selling process? I think it's a little part of the selling process i think it's a little bit of both i feel like vintage cars are one of those things if you can keep them for a long time they will always retain their value it's just you have to not be desperate to sell it

Starting point is 00:09:35 and you can always turn a profit but yeah like having you know the pictures or video or you know me getting photographed with it um that's, you know, but I don't just buy them and take pictures of it and then sell it. You know, I really use them. I really love them, you know. And you collect or you have collected other things, or I should say, vintage cars are not the only vintage that you've acquired in the past. I mean, I pretty much collect dead people's things of all kinds. My house is like a museum. I am a maximalist. I love, I like recyclables too. I like vintage clothing because it's another thing that retains its value. I started wearing vintage when I was

Starting point is 00:10:21 just out of high school. I graduated from high school in 1990, and I bought vintage clothes because I couldn't afford anything else, and I kind of wanted to get the designer look. You know, I could emulate designers like Vivienne Westwood or Jean-Paul Gaultier by buying, like, vintage bullet bras when you could buy them for nothing. And so I started like that because I couldn't afford, like, you know, the designer jeans my friends in Orange County had or the cool sneakers.

Starting point is 00:10:47 So I kind of like went to flea markets and went to vintage stores. And then, you know, lo and behold, all these years later, it's super collectible. And I have amassed an amazing collection of vintage clothing that has really has a lot of value. It's amazing how that works. And it makes me think of my habits and hobbies with comic books as a kid. I mean, I didn't acquire them to have them appreciate and value. But like you said, lo and behold. It's kind of a life lesson, right?

Starting point is 00:11:21 Like if you do things with authenticity, like that's what I've always retained from, it's a common thing of all of my life lesson right like if you do things with authenticity like that's what i've always retained from there's it's a common thing of all of my life lessons is like things that are authentic if you do it in an authentic way you know like what i never said i'm gonna be the world's most famous burlesque star i'm gonna be a stripper in the modern times i just did it accidentally and it's the same thing with collecting, you know, with the cars and the vintage clothes. It was sort of like, I just loved it. And then I'm lucky that it all worked out. So, we're going to look at luck and we're going to look at decisions. I think they

Starting point is 00:11:58 go hand in hand. Very often you have maybe not equal doses of each, but certainly doses of each. Let's talk about burlesque, but we're going to do it kind of hopping backwards and forwards. The first question that I wanted to ask is about the name. So, Dita Von Teese, where does the name come from? What's the backstory on the name? Well, it's funny that one time, I remember a few years back, someone was talking, a journalist said how cliche my name was, how calculated and cliche it was, but it wasn't at all. So, I was working in a strip club in the early 90s in Orange County, and I had picked the name Dita because I had just seen a movie with an actress called Dita Parlow. And then there was also like the Madonna character in the sex

Starting point is 00:12:46 book and i kind of was you know into this 20s look at the time i kind of went through different eras that i loved and emulated that so um i picked the name dita and uh and then a few years later i was uh asked to be in these playboy newsstand specials. I don't know if some people remember this, but they used to have all these special magazines called the Book of Lingerie or whatever. So I was in those in like the mid-90s, and they told me I had to have a second name. And I said, no, why?

Starting point is 00:13:16 Madonna, Cher, Dita, what? And they said, no, you have to have a second name. So I opened up the phone book, because we used to have yellow pages back then or white pages. And I was like, people with a Vaughn are cool in their name. So, I looked under the Vaughns and I found this name Vaughn Treese, T-R-E-E-S-E. And I called Playboy and I said, I'm going to be Dita Vaughn Treese. And they're like, okay. And then I remember the magazine came out and I went to the liquor store and I grabbed my issue and I opened it up and said, Dedevantes.

Starting point is 00:13:48 They forgot the R. And now I didn't think anything like, oh, this is cool. It's like striptease, Dedevantes. I thought, I need to call them and tell them, you know, give them what for. And so, I called them and said, it was supposed to be Dedevantes. And they said, yeah, yeah, we'll correct it next month. So, you know, the magazine came out again and it said Dita Von Trees so it just kind of I just kind of left it and I didn't think ever for one minute that I was going to be famous with that

Starting point is 00:14:14 name or I was going to be trademarking it internationally I would have probably done it differently if I had known that it was going to turn into what it has. So... It's just worked out. Yeah. But I was just, you know, I was just like working in a strip club, posing for these Playboy magazines. And, you know, it was something I thought I would just, you know, get married, you know, have a baby. And like, that would be my past of being this pinup star and stripper.

Starting point is 00:14:42 Well, it seems to me that there's an argument that people can make for planning big, thinking big, and making those decisions with this really long-term outlook. But I think there's also an argument that could be made if you look at a lot of the people

Starting point is 00:15:00 who have been on this podcast, that if they knew then what they knew later, they would have fucked it all up by trying to sort of craft themselves for the world. And they would have lost that authenticity or that spontaneity that is actually kind of the genie in the bottle that helped them to do what they did. What is burlesque and how did that enter the scene? Because my understanding in doing the research and also you very generously contributed your answers to Tribal Mentors

Starting point is 00:15:39 is that ballet was one of the, I guess, first focal points. So how did burlesque enter the picture? And what is burlesque? Yeah, okay. So I wanted to be a ballerina my whole childhood, but I was just not really that good at it. I just loved it. And still to this day, it's like,

Starting point is 00:15:57 I like to take a ballet class, but I'm the ballerina in the back and I have to follow everyone. And I just never had that, like, I was just not naturally meant to do that, you know, but I loved it. So, Burlesque was a type of show that was sort of a spinoff of a vaudeville show back in, you know, the 1930s and 40s. So, vaudeville was kind of like where a lot of, you know, amazing comedians and singers kind of made their mark in America in the 1920s and 30s.

Starting point is 00:16:27 And pretty much it was dead by the 40s. So burlesque was kind of the naughtier cousin of vaudeville. It was a little bit more about sex. It was like a working man's entertainment, cheaper ticket. You could go and see. Well, actually, originally it meant it was kind of just a variety show. But the stars of the burlesque show kind of became the strippers. And it was kind of by an accident.

Starting point is 00:16:52 You know, they say there was like a dancing girl. There's a few different, there's different folklore for how it actually started, how burlesque in America really started. That idea of striptease to music with a band or on stage. There was one story about a girl who was trying to do a quick change and she started like pulling off her outfit before she was concealed from the audience and they went crazy and so you know in those days it was like well you know what can you do to get make a name for yourself so obviously that turned into like a striptease act um but yeah it was kind of like the strip club of that time.

Starting point is 00:17:26 But, you know, there was a live orchestra band and you had comedy and dancing girls. But, you know, you had great stars that came out of burlesque like Gypsy Rosalie, who a lot of people compare me to or compare my career to. She was the subject of the musical and film Gypsy, starring Natalie Wood, which came out in the 60s. So burlesque was kind of very niche entertainment. I don't think it's ever, of course it went away. The burlesque theaters got shut down in the 50s, and then burlesque dancers like Lily St. Cyr

Starting point is 00:18:03 were performing in supper clubs and whatnot. But burlesque was kind of dead by the 50s in a lot of ways. And so it's dead in the 50s and yet somehow it finds you. Yeah. Or you find it. And you were born in the warden class rural Michigan. Is that right? Yes.

Starting point is 00:18:25 I was born in Rochester, but I grew up in a place called West Branch, Michigan, which is near Traverse City. And so how did burlesque or striptease or any of those forms of entertainment or those iconic women enter your life? Well, I had this idea in around 1991 that I wanted to be the new Betty Page. I wanted to create pinup pictures with the emphasis on bondage and fetishism because I kind of got introduced to that world in a roundabout way through my job working in a lingerie store.

Starting point is 00:19:03 Okay. I worked in a lingerie store. I have in a lingerie store i love i i've been obsessed with lingerie since i was a little girl like i have really distinct memories of being curious about what these weird things that women wore under their clothes were like bras i used to sneak into my mom's bra drawer and i used to steal things and to me it was like symbolic of womanhood and femininity and i I was like, I want to be part of this world, you know, so I was always obsessed with lingerie. Anyway, I became obsessed with like, things like garter belts, stockings when I was a teenager. I worked in a

Starting point is 00:19:39 lingerie store. I asked someone for, I had been looking for like a Victorian corset and someone gave me this address when I was like 18 and I walked into the store where I supposedly could get something like that and it was a fetish store. And it kind of opened my mind to this whole other world that I had no idea existed. And I was shown this picture of Betty Page and I thought, why isn't anyone doing this now? And I decided I was going to be that. And so in the progress, you know, the process of me, um, making all these pinup pictures and even bondage movies and all these things that were from that, you know, in a fifties 50s theme, I would be looking at these vintage magazines and a lot of the models that pose for these vintage magazines or these fetish magazines that would say they were a burlesque dancer too. I was like, the burlesque dancer? So, a lot of these women that posed for pinups back then and men's magazines in the 30s and 40s they were also dancers and I thought like oh what a great way to

Starting point is 00:20:46 use my failed ballet career you know I could I could you know perform on stage and perform in these vintage you know vintage outfits so I you know my first stages for that were strip club regular strip club and then as I became more famous like with playboy and everything i would headline the big strip clubs all over the united states and i'd get you know then suddenly i i was the most famous fetish model in the early 90s too so i was performing at this like torture garden in london and the fetish ball here in la and kind of doing all these like fetish parties okay i have so many questions i have so many questions thank you for that uh so the your career and trajectory is so interesting to me on multiple levels because and then i can list off all the reasons but there's a there's a the the perception that i have is that the say strip club or stripping striptease world is very would be very difficult and very competitive because you have a lot of

Starting point is 00:21:56 beautiful women or beautiful girls and the at least in some places, I would imagine the sort of barrier to entry is decently low. And yet, you were able to craft this unique career for yourself and really differentiate yourself. And I want to harken back to something we were chatting about before we started recording, which was Amanda Palmer in, I guess, the art of asking if I'm getting the title right, talked about you because she contrasted what you did and feel free to fact correct, but with a lot of what was happening at the time where you'd have these sort of bleached blonde women, completely nude, you know, enormous fake breasts doing their thing getting kind of singles or fives and you'd have this elaborate long striptease with much more clothing and then there was one guy who would give you a 50 and it was like yeah that guy's your customer yeah so which which to me is so beautiful because, and I'm going to read a quote here, if I may. This is from

Starting point is 00:23:09 your answer in Tribe of Mentors. If you could have a gigantic billboard anywhere with anything on it, what would it say and why? And the quote that you gave was, you can be a juicy ripe peach and there will still be someone who doesn't like peaches. And I'll just finish this real quickly. This is a quote that my friend's great-grandmother told to her, and she told to me, and I've always loved it. And you go on to say how in the public eye, as burlesque star you've been called, brilliant, stupid, ugly, and beautiful in equal measures, but you found your niche. You found your true believers. How did you do that? Like, when did you realize that it could work? Was there a, that's a very long winded lead up to a question, but it's like you, you broke through and became

Starting point is 00:23:52 so big in a world where I think the belief would be that's extremely, extremely difficult. So, like, when did you realize, wow, I think I'm on to something or you found that secret sauce? Yeah. I feel like the first thing I think about is that all along I was just having fun and enjoying what I was doing, having the time of my life. So it was never high stakes like, am I going to make it or break it? I didn't really care. I always kept my normal job, you know, while I was going to strip club. First I worked in lingerie

Starting point is 00:24:27 and then I worked in makeup and beauty behind the makeup counter at Robinson's May. So I kind of always kept my other, my job. And so it was never like, if I don't make it, what am I going to do? I just thought like, this is fun. So I think not having like that pressure, but there's certainly a couple turning points in my career where I mostly felt I had to live up to

Starting point is 00:24:53 accolades I was getting suddenly. Like when I was on the cover of Playboy in 2002 for the Christmas edition, it was still a time when Playboy, everybody knew who was on the cover of Playboy and people cared. It was kind of before it was all reality stars and it was when you had like actresses wanting to be on the cover so that was a pivotal moment in my career and then um uh i was in vanity fair and they wrote this article about what I did and I felt like I better live up to some of this and that kind of made me take myself more a little bit more seriously and then I came out with a book where I told my story not in an autobiographical way but a photo book with Judith Regan and she kind of let me go wild with this book and it was the first time that Harper

Starting point is 00:25:42 Collins and Regan Books had done a book like this where it was sort of autobiographical but mostly a photo book and on one side it's called burlesque in the art of the teas and fetish in the art of the teas and it was a book where you could flip it over and read the other side the the light side and the dark side um and i found i did this big book signing in London at Harrods and the night before I went on the Jonathan Ross show. And when I showed up, they had blocked off the streets and there were thousands of women there. It was like a sea of like girls with red lipstick on.

Starting point is 00:26:18 And I suddenly went, oh, I didn't know that I'm standing for something now. And I realized that by just telling my story about feeling like I didn't know that I'm standing for something now. And I realized that by just telling my story about feeling like I wasn't very beautiful, wasn't very talented, all these things, it kind of resonated with other people that said I felt that way too. And I kind of just felt like I had a mission and something to stand up for and realize that all has to just

Starting point is 00:26:46 come from speaking my truth and being authentic and not like calculating because you know talking about what we were saying earlier there's so many people that want to be the new me and they're going to be more Dita Von Teese than Dita Von Teese was and they're going to make their career and they're going to be more famous than me and do better than me. You know, I hear it all the time, but it's like, you can't really, you know, you can try to make it up and you can decide you're going to do all those things. But I think ultimately, you know, I'm not like super spiritual, like the universe is watching, but I just feel like my whole career path is just a matter of doing something that I loved, that I believed in, but without the desire or want to be famous. I wanted to be acknowledged, certainly, but I didn't expect it.

Starting point is 00:27:34 Mm-hmm. When did you know you could make it a full-time gig? So, I'm thinking about the road leading up to the cover of Playboy. I would imagine a few things happened leading up to that. When did you end up quitting those backup jobs? I think I ended up quitting those jobs around 2000, maybe, like right before playboy and that's when i was really touring um and and shooting pictures and i also met my ex-husband marilyn manson a lot of people know me because of him he's always been a cheerleader for what i do um and still is in a lot of ways so i think that that was a moment too where I felt like I could focus completely on showbiz instead of my paycheck because I was also like let's be real I was

Starting point is 00:28:32 you know basically his cook I'm a good cook I was sort of like the housewife and took care of him while he was making records he made a record called the golden age of grotesque which was sort of a tribute to my world. And, you know, around that time, I was sort of, you know, moved in with him, we got engaged, and I was, you know, packing his suitcases, unpacking his suitcases, you know, acting like personal assistant half the time, but also had the freedom to, you know, start building, you know, put big props up in our backyard and rehearse on them and make bigger, better shows. So that was kind of a moment where I could focus more on that.

Starting point is 00:29:09 You have said that the advice, well, actually, no, I'm going to come back to the advice, not the advice, to your younger self, but that your 16-year-old self might be surprised that you've managed to find your voice and that you experienced a lot of fear as a kid. And you do, I mean, just in our interactions leading up to recording, I mean, you seem very, in some ways, very introverted or on the shy side, which is not a bad thing. How did you find your voice? What changed?

Starting point is 00:29:49 Yeah. I mean, I grew up really shy. Like I remember being in grade school and being sent, and I was sort of always confused by this, but they sent me to like a speech class or something like this because I was so soft-spoken but mostly I was just terrified for them to ask me anything or call on me and I felt that way through high school and everything um I could have never you know I used to duck out of speech class like or you know in high school when you'd have to give speeches oh I would never you know I never went to theater I didn't want to be an actress nothing like that that. But I liked, you know, I liked ballet, I liked performing, but that was different. And I feel like I found my confidence actually with

Starting point is 00:30:32 first, it's one of the things I talk about with my book is learning how to find confidence in how I present myself and, you know, listen, it's, it's like, it's like drag, the way we dress ourselves, the way we wear hair, the makeup we wear, I feel more confidence than when I'm, you know, with the character I created, which is not, you know, I don't, it's, it's a character, but it's not, it's like an aesthetic character, but I'm not, I still find the importance in being still that Heather Sweet sweet from michigan and the vulnerability coming across not just with the appearance i've created but on stage with how i perform heather sweet for people who don't know your birth name yeah i'm heather sweet it sounds like a stripper name i know my my uh yeah um what was i saying you were talking about confidence and the when you put on the and i'm

Starting point is 00:31:28 just paraphrasing here but when you put on the persona that allows you to assume a level of confidence that you don't normally have access to like wearing um wearing my makeup a certain way and wearing my clothes that change my posture and make me want to walk proud or people wondering who I am, who's that girl? It slowly but surely helped me gain confidence. And of course, I feel like it's definitely about maturity too, right? Like when you're in high school you're a certain maturity level it's just when you think about the science of it too and I just kind of thought eventually I learned that if I make mistakes in front of people if there are people that are all saying I'm like

Starting point is 00:32:15 that too and it's endearing so when I was a spokesperson for the MAC AIDS fund for the MAC Viva Glam thing and I had to give speeches all over the world. And I was so scared. But then I realized that once I got up there and I'd have a triumph, it made me have more confidence. And so, I love to challenge myself in doing things that terrify me. You know, I have never been a singer. I cannot sing, but I got asked to make an album by one of the greatest French musicians. And I thought, okay, you know, I said to him, you know, I can't sing, right? And he said, this album wouldn't work with a singer. And I wrote it for you. And I thought, okay. And just the whole process of going into a studio and being, you know, around all these like sound technicians and this artist that I admire so much.

Starting point is 00:33:07 And learning and going to that place of feeling like Heather Sweet from Michigan again. I enjoy it. And I come out of it. And it's one of the things I think my fans and people that know me like about me is that I'm not trying to like, look to me. I'm so glamorous. And I have confidence in everything I do. I don't talk like that. I don't act like that. trying to like, look to me, I'm so glamorous and I have confidence in everything I do. Like, I don't talk like that. I don't act like that. I know how to bring it on stage, but I also know

Starting point is 00:33:30 that the little things that are the real me are what make it an interesting thing to watch. So, you mentioned feeling terrified. I want to wind back the clock a bit. And because I deliberately didn't want to kind of fill in the gaps on some chapters in your life, because I wanted to hear it from you directly also, because I can't believe everything you read on the internet. Is it true that you were thrown out of your house in high school? Yeah. Well, my parents were getting a divorce and I always feel so bad talking about this for my dad because he'll, you know, it's one of those things I haven't really gotten around to like sitting down and talking to him about, but I will. So, my parents were getting a divorce. My mother was having an affair with my dad's best friend. My dad was having an

Starting point is 00:34:23 affair with his mistress back in Michigan. We're all living in Orange County at that time. They're both having this like, you know, their affairs with these different people. I'm 16 years old. I'm working in the lingerie store. I have the same boyfriend since I was like 14 years old. You know, I'm living my life. I'm working. I'm going to school. I'm working, I'm hanging out with my boyfriend. I'm not, you know, I'm pretty, I'm not getting amazing grades, but I'm not getting bad grades. I'm not doing anything bad. And I'm working in the lingerie store and I'd wash my little like black lace lingerie things and hang them up in my bathroom. And my dad just had like a fit about it and was calling me, you know, a whore and like whoring around with your boyfriend.

Starting point is 00:35:06 And I was sort of like, what? You know, I was like, I have a credit card. I'm working in a lingerie store selling lingerie to like, you know, grown women. And it's a legitimate, it's not a sex store. It's, you know, I'm selling like nightgowns to ladies in their 50s half the time uh so my dad like kind of threw me out of the house i mean he was drinking a lot at that time so i went to go live with my mom which was better for me because i've always been closer to my mom and uh we've always understood each other a lot better than you know dads and daughters don't always understand

Starting point is 00:35:43 each other that well so that's the story of me getting thrown out of the house. Was that hard for you? I mean, I've never been thrown out of a house. I've certainly had my own childhood stuff, but was it more of a relief than anything? Yeah, it was kind of like, I feel like I could recognize whatever my parents were going through

Starting point is 00:36:11 and that divorce is never easy on anyone. And I was sort of like, I was always very relaxed about things like that. And even looking back, it wasn't traumatic. I sort of just went and lived with my mom and I had more freedom that way. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't long after that that I, you know, moved out. You know, it was a couple years made me think about it a few years ago. I didn't think about that too much, but it made me think about how people have their own associations with certain things. And my association with lingerie and black lace and garter belts and stockings was kind of an innocent one. Like I said, it goes back to that rite of passage of being a woman, not sex. You

Starting point is 00:37:02 know, certainly I know how to use the tools of seduction and things like lingerie. I know how to use that in my personal life, but you know, I don't, it's never been that for me. And I thought, oh, that's my dad putting his issues on me. It's not about me. And I still think that, and that's the conversation I need to have with my dad is like, I do understand that something that made him associate black garter belts and late black lace with something bad with a wicked city woman and a prostitute um he was really disturbed by his you know 16 17 year old daughter wearing that stuff but none of that was my problem that's his problem how did you develop the capacity to handle all of that as calmly as you did it was is your mom that way are you uh did you somehow develop that over time i mean that

Starting point is 00:38:00 seems atypical for a 16 or 17 year old getting thrown out of the house to be able to watch the watcher in a way and have that level of kind of calm awareness. Where does that come from? I'm not necessarily, I'm not really sure if I felt that way at the time, but I think I've always been someone who, you know, kind of disappears into the work, whatever it is. And, um, I kind of, I don't, I'm not someone who reacts unless I'm really like provoked and pushed and then suddenly I can explode. Um, but I certainly wasn't that way when I was a teenager. Uh, I think things would be different now if someone like my dad talked to me and even when he does talk to me talk to me now, if he says something I don't agree with or that I'm offended by, I wouldn't be that person that's like, I'm just going to go. I'm a little more confrontational with my father now.

Starting point is 00:39:01 You mentioned the ballet and wanting to be a ballet dancer. And I want to come back to that because going back to one of the questions in Tribe Mentors, I asked, you know, how has a failure or apparent failure set you up for later success? Do you have a quote, favorite failure, end quote, of yours? And there's a lot to the answer, so I'm not going to read all of it, which is a great answer. But you mentioned at one point, you know, truthfully, I never really loved dancing per se. I loved what ballet stood for. And then you went into what that meant. And the part I want to highlight here is I believe that sometimes our shortcomings can lead to greatness because those of us who have intense desire but mutant-like attributes that you're either born with or you are born without.

Starting point is 00:40:11 I agree. And if you want to sprint alongside Usain Bolt, good luck. You better have some very unusual genetics. If you want to be a superstar ballet dancer at the top of the world, similarly, you need, there's a certain phenotype, a certain build and their attributes that are prerequisites in a lot of respects. You managed to take your abilities in different areas and combine them into something unique. What are other, either failures that helped you along the way or key decisions that you think have helped you to craft this very unusual path for yourself. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:12 For some reason, I've always loved people that have shortcomings. Or when you read, you always read about people's opinions. Like, oh, she's not that good of a singer. Why is she the most famous singer in the world? They're better. I always loved those people. Yeah. And so I'm kind of, because i can relate to them you know um and i i those are always the kind of singers i like like i can't stand listening

Starting point is 00:41:31 to vocal gymnastics like when people are like the great singers of today i like people that have flawed voices or interesting voices that have like that communicate and i always felt the same way about dance and myself like I'm just trying to communicate I'm trying to be on stage instead of look like I'm trying to dance you know I get insulted a lot with she's not that good of a dancer even and I like oh actually I probably could be but I don't want to ever look like I'm trying too hard because to me like sensuality and eroticism is an epic fail if you look like you're trying to do it it's better to do less yeah you know i mean like i i even think when i watch someone like beyonce her best moments are when she stops you

Starting point is 00:42:16 know she does all this crazy stuff and then she stops and breathes and you're like, yes, do more of that. You know, it's so great. So, I'm, that's just, I think that my failures and not really finding what that thing that I might be amazing at is, because I also, I'm always fascinated by what you were saying. Like, how does someone, you think of all these people that are walking around,

Starting point is 00:42:46 and what if they could have been the greatest whatever, but they were never given the opportunity, or they weren't interested in it? Like, what if they could have been the best, like, basketball player, or they could have been the best actor, but, like, they never had the opportunity or the interest in trying it? And there's probably people out there with hidden talents that could have been the best in the world and they would never even know it. And I think that why I like this answer you gave and this topic is that whether it's people listening, whether it's you and what you've done, you're not limited to 27 preset tracks called careers, right?

Starting point is 00:43:25 Like you can be the best in the world, but you have to figure out how to be the best Dita Von Teese in the world. If you're Dita Von Teese and you mentioned, you know, people trying to out Dita Dita, like that's never going to fucking work. Right. Because like they try, but like they're there, they should race their own race. Right. It's like they're, they're not going to have the endurance or the enthusiasm or the passion or the lack of attachment that you had in the beginning. So they've kind of

Starting point is 00:43:50 in a way already lost, right? Like they're trying to dominate in a category of one, which is already owned by Dita. And I think quite a bit, I've had two folks on this podcast, Mark Andreessen, who's a very famous entrepreneur and investor. And then Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert. And both of them have very similar thoughts on building incredible careers or finding your own path,

Starting point is 00:44:19 which is in a sense, and this came from Scott first in his writing is you can try to be the top 1% of 1% of 1% in one thing, like basketball. But you are going to have a hell of a time doing that. And you are going to be relying heavily on attributes that you are either born with or without. And that is a sort of a finite game in a sense. And then on the other hand, you could combine really unusual, I shouldn't say unusual things. You could take usual things that are usually not combined,

Starting point is 00:44:54 like a law degree and a computer science degree and fill in the blank, a love of Japanese anime. I'm just making that up. Now, all of a sudden, you're the one horse in the race. You've mentioned a few of the women who have inspired you. Are there any other, whether it's women inside or outside of burlesque or really anywhere who inspire you along those lines, kind of people who have carved their own path. You mentioned Madonna earlier.

Starting point is 00:45:29 This is something I also wanted to mention. She's had people throughout her career say, oh, she doesn't know how to sing. She has no idea how to dance or whatever it is. Oh, she makes a movie. She can't act. She directs a movie. She can't direct.

Starting point is 00:45:40 But she's fucking Madonna, right? So why is she Madonna? That's a really worthwhile question to ask. decades she was madonna right i mean she still is madonna but like she's she's been able to reinvent herself successfully so many times and it's because she is the best at combining all those disparate but not only that people sometimes forget and this is the thing that bothers me she was the first person to sort of like i'm going to make a music video on stage and the shows with all the dancers and you know all of it around her um she was the person that was like i'm going to make this stage show that is like a spectacle and so every you know what bothers me is that people definitely have every

Starting point is 00:46:21 show that's the benchmark now everyone has to try to have all these dancers they have to have designers making their outfits they have to do all this stuff but sometimes they these people will forget where they wouldn't even she's the one that paved the way for that and inspired everyone to do that um and you know i it bothers me when somebody doesn't get credit for that you know yeah for sure i mean because i watch people all the time that are like they'll imitate one of my shows but then they act like they never saw me but they've never heard of me before yeah you know because there's always that everybody wants to be recognized they want to be feel like they did something that was the first thing you know and they changed the world

Starting point is 00:46:57 and but it's honestly like why don't you do that first you know and then you can instead of just trying to sweep it under the rug that you saw, you know, you saw somebody else do it and you decided you were going to try to make it better, but you didn't. No, I agree. I totally agree. Are there, what other notable influences have you had? Any gender, any discipline? Has anyone come to mind? There's one that I can definitely bring up just

Starting point is 00:47:25 because i think she's amazing but no no i want to hear oh madonna okay no no madonna well that was the one there no no i i brought her up as as uh just someone top of mind that i didn't want to forget uh well let's just jump to it may west oh yeah may west may west i mean who is may west for people who don't know she's okay she was an actress that has i think there's still no one that's ever done what she has do you know much about may west very little other than uh what you wrote about her just because of her her incredibly well titled book on sex health and, and ESP. Yeah. Very rare book. Yes. But also her quotes.

Starting point is 00:48:08 I've just found her quotes to be so brilliant. All right, I've had a few too many cappuccinos prior to this interview, which is why I'm all over the place. But just to get it out there. So when I get attacked by someone on the internet, usually I don't reply. Before that, I don't even go looking for it. But if I just happen to be having a tough day and I come across someone and feel compelled to feed the trolls, I will very often respond. It's usually because I've offended somebody in some ridiculous way. And I'll almost

Starting point is 00:48:45 always just reply with a Mae West quote, which is those who are shocked easily should be shocked more often. And I just let her do my speaking for me. But who is Mae West? So, Mae West is this fascinating, she was the biggest sex symbol in the 1930s. And the things that make her fascinating, the short version are number one she made her first film at age 40 and she was the biggest sex symbol of her time so that's imagine that now also she wrote every line she ever said in every film so when you look up may west quotes and you will get like the best quotes ever written the best one-liners ever written you know she is that like and that's what she said you know she's like the best quotes ever written, the best one-liners ever written. You know, she is that

Starting point is 00:49:25 like, and that's what she said, you know, she's like the originator of that kind of quote. So, and then she went to the studio bosses when she made her first films and became a sensation. She said, how much does the studio boss get? I want more than that. And she got more than that. And she was the only person, she was the only actor, actress that made more than the studio bosses just because she asked for it and she demanded it. And she was, you know, a sensation back then. So, she's kind of like a sexual gangster too. You know, she was the one that flipped the script. Everything was, you know, women had a certain role in Hollywood and she was kind of like the male version and she even when you watch her film she's objectifying men left and right

Starting point is 00:50:10 it's just it's astonishing to watch and I can't think of anyone in history that's done what she's done since I mean to actually write every line in every film um is kind of and she made so many films and of course you know she's there there are some of her things about her that are problematic because it was a different time but um you know what kind of stuff is problematic well you know i mean they she she appeared i mean there's a great documentary coming out about her i hope people will watch but you know she grew up, a lot of people say she appropriated black culture with her like her swagger and the way she sang and talked and everything. And that was kind of an imprint of childhood because she was actually like a child actor in a minstrel show. So that was kind of like she just picked it up, you know, and turned it into something totally different so that's you know that's one thing but you know then we could also argue like she completely swirled it into something new and became Mae West and you know Mae West is like this character that you know there's never been

Starting point is 00:51:15 another another one like her and you know she's drag queens do Mae West everyone does Mae West you know it's like this character that we've never seen again. And when you squint your eyes, you're like, that's Mae West. So, yeah, she's someone I definitely admire. She went to prison for like writing a play about sex. I mean, she was talking, she was sex positive in a time before it was popular. I mean, she wrote a play called Sex. I think she went to prison for like a week. But, you know, she loved it because she got to hang around all these other women and write more material.

Starting point is 00:51:45 And she felt like she came out better than ever because of it. Workshopped the prison visit. Yeah. So, she is a fascinating person. I'm glad they're finally, there's some great books about her. One of my favorite one is She Always Knew How. But she also wrote. That's the name of the book.

Starting point is 00:52:00 Yeah, She Always Knew How. That's a biography about her that I really like. There's several. And, of course, she always knew how that's a biography about her that i really like there's several and of course she wrote an autobiography and if you can ever get your hands on love sex and esp is it love sex okay it's sex health sex health and esp sorry um that book is great uh i used to read aloud from that book in in paris i'd get my friend i lived in paris for a short time and i'd get my friends together and we'd all drink champagne and read aloud from that book in Paris. I'd get my friend, I lived in Paris for a short time and I'd get my friends together and we'd all drink champagne and read aloud from that book because it's so crazy.

Starting point is 00:52:30 Do you have a favorite, any, do you have a favorite film of hers? Um, not really. It's like one that you would suggest people start with. It's hard to say. I would suggest anybody who interested,

Starting point is 00:52:41 just go and start watching Mae West clips, like watching some best ofs, like reels of her quick one linersers of the things she would say uh that that's what I would say because it's one of those things where the clips are almost better than the films in their on their own you were just talking about Mae West writing her own lines and I read something that may or may not be true you can can tell me, do you use stylists or do you not use stylists? I don't in my personal life. I am forced to often in my professional life, like for photo shoots for a magazine and whatnot, but I am self-styled, you know,

Starting point is 00:53:23 when I go on the red carpet I can't I just pull from my own wardrobe or I have direct relationships with the designers I've which has kind of always been you know a good a good thing for me is having that direct contact with the people that I want to be dressed by um that whole machine of like hair makeup stylist like I, like I can't, I can't be bothered with all of it. I don't need it. I feel like I know if it looks right, it is right. And, um, and also that's kind of what I built my whole career on is being self-made and, you know, in my books, empowering other women, um, to be able to do whatever I can do. I don't know if this is apocryphal or if it's a real story, but I had read of some stylist picking up some very,

Starting point is 00:54:10 I suppose, classic vintage shoes and saying, oh, these would go great with jeans. And you're like, okay, I think we're done. Yeah, this interview's done here. Yeah, it was actually Marilyn Manson's stylist when we lived together and she was like, oh yeah, let's go here yeah um it was actually marilyn manson's stylist when we lived together and she was like oh yeah let's go look in your wardrobe and she's a good friend of mine now and it's all fine you know it's just that i always you know and i figured out early on that i didn't need advice you know i don't i don't need advice on what to wear i know what to wear. Prep for your shows. Let's talk about prep. So I had read that you arrive sometimes four or five hours in advance of your performances.

Starting point is 00:54:55 Yes. And that you could prep, you could get ready very quickly, but you choose not to. Yeah, it's a nightmare. Why do you arrive, as someone who arrives to the airport like 17 hours early for domestic flights, I feel like we might be birds of a feather in that respect, but why do you arrive so early? Well, there are a lot of, you know, yes, I can get ready within a certain time frame, but when you start throwing in all of these things like answering text messages and people asking you questions

Starting point is 00:55:27 you know when i'm doing my tours i arrive like five six hours before because there's things like i want to look at the theater i need to look at the stage sometimes you know i need to set where the props are going to go because the stage is a different size than usual but mostly it's like why rush it's part of the fun of it is getting ready. I love listening to music. I love listening to Tim Ferriss podcasts in my dressing room. Thank you for that.

Starting point is 00:55:52 Particularly the ones about psychedelic drugs. And I just like taking my time. I'm in such a better headspace when I spend much too much time preparing. I have a lot of bad experiences with being rushed. I mean, most recently I was performing at this party for Anastasia of Beverly Hills, and it was like all the Kardashians in presence. And I was sort of like in the dressing room and there were some Kardashians in there and I was like too many being kind of bombarded and and and you know

Starting point is 00:56:32 I get really stressed out when I'm being rushed you know to get ready and I kind of got like can you go on stage in 15 minutes and I was like ah you know it's not how I want to do it that's not the way that I want to feel I don't want to feel stressed out or rushed or like you know, it's not how I want to do it. That's not the way that I want to feel. I don't want to feel stressed out or rushed or like, you know, cause I feel like that's when I start getting in my head and I'll be like, I'm not good. And you know, all the bad things in my head, like I'm not good enough. I can't, I don't know what I'm doing. They're going to find out I'm pretending to do this. They're going to find out I have no idea what I'm doing. Yeah, the on-ramp to a lot of these experiences for me is as important as the so-called performance segment, right? It's like the, I have always arrived so early. I mean, this is where we're sitting right now is a case in point, right?

Starting point is 00:57:24 I mean, I'm here for a 45 or 60 minute panel tomorrow. I could have arrived a few hours beforehand, but I want to know the venue. I want to feel comfortable in the time zone. I want to know what I'm going to be having for breakfast so that I don't have any snafus. I want to know if the mini bar has like snacks. I want to know all of those details even though i will probably not need any of those contingency plans it just gives me a level of calm and feeling as though i've checked the boxes so that the only thing occupying my mind is what i am going to do once i get on stage yeah uh otherwise and i i i have friends i envy them who like they they almost make it a game to see how close they can cut it at the airport with their flights i that is so much

Starting point is 00:58:16 it's just so anathema to my programming um i think it makes a whole lot of sense to arrive really, really, really early. So for those people who are making stress a sport with things like transportation, I encourage you, consider the alternative, which is not arriving just like an hour beforehand, but like with an excess of time. Yeah. Stress sport is a good word. Yeah. Yeah. Who needs is a good word. Yeah. Yeah. Who needs it?

Starting point is 00:58:46 Who needs it? There's enough unavoidable, unpredictable stress. I feel no compulsion to add optional stress of my own volition. What, what would you say are any new behaviors or beliefs that have really positively impacted your life in the last year, two or three? Is there anything that you've really changed for yourself, added or removed that has had a significant impact on your well-being, would you say?

Starting point is 00:59:26 Well, I know a lot of people say this, but learning to meditate, which I'm not a great, amazing model meditator. I use it when I need it, and that's kind of helped me in a lot of ways. What type of meditation? Transcendental meditation. You know, I feel like when I, you know, it was always intimidating to me. I think I dropped into like a Buddhist meditation center once

Starting point is 00:59:55 and I was like, oh my God, sitting here for an hour with no thoughts. And it scared me away. And then someone introduced me to transcendental meditation. And I learned with this amazing lady um and she you know she had all these great stories about teaching elizabeth taylor to meditate and um michael jackson and all these people and she had great stories so it made it fun for me too to see her uh for all the training uh every day i was like oh what story are you gonna tell

Starting point is 01:00:21 me now so um and then she also just took the pressure off. And when I would say like, I don't think I can sit there for 20 minutes twice a day. She said, why don't you try 10? And I was like, okay. So, having that pressure off and even now just realizing five minutes is good. That seemed to help a lot. And I'm trying to be better at it. And it's something that gives me a goal to achieve,

Starting point is 01:00:45 to try to make sure I block out the time. What differences have you seen since starting to experiment with the meditation? Well, I think it's mostly regaining focus and having... I also, besides like transcendental meditation and clearing my mind, I also love to schedule like a massage or something that puts me in a relaxed state, but still a thinking state. Because I don't like, it's not like I'm trying to just tune out.

Starting point is 01:01:18 Then I start like actually thinking about what I'm going to do. That's where I come up with my good ideas, where I'm like, what's my new tour going to be called? And so I love to set aside that time of not doing and racing around and not trying to accomplish things and just like, I'm going to lay here for an hour and think about this thing that I need to figure out. I can do that at the dentist too sometimes actually.

Starting point is 01:01:40 At the dentist. Yeah, I kind of don't mind really going to the dentist. And it kind of makes me close my eyes and like, think about things. Yeah. So, it's more like taking a time out because I have always these to-do lists and I realize I focus, you know, clear my mind, close my eyes, meditate. Yeah. very well earned, I think, or well deserved on the part of meditation, allergy to meditation, because the way that meditation is often sold is very all or nothing and extremely intimidating. Like, all right, you're going to sit on this hard floor for an especially with a good teacher can keep lowering the bar until it's easy to step over it's not something you have to do you know olympic uh high jump over they they make it less and less intimidating until you can get started right and then once you're sitting there

Starting point is 01:03:05 for 10 minutes you're like okay i think i know oftentimes you're like okay i can go 15 okay i can go 20 but it's really just getting your ass to sit down and do it and the first like for me the first five minutes is brutal and then suddenly i go into like the zone i'm like oh yeah this is what i came here for yeah and it really, as a mantra-based concentration practice, train you, at least this has been my experience, you said helping with focus, to return to something over and over again. And like, you'll end up drifting off and thinking about your to-do list or porn or whatever. And then you're like, oh, wait, I'm supposed to be meditating. And then you go back to your mantra. And when you sit down in front of a computer, you sit down with a notebook, that's also what you're going to be doing, right? So it's like the reeling back is the repetition of lifting the weight in the gym. And it's a very beneficial gateway drug into meditation, I think. I also love taking a time out during the day, actually by myself, and sipping a little magic

Starting point is 01:04:07 mushroom tea and going, oh, okay, this is what, you know, kind of gets to the essence of things, like a simplistic appreciation for the beauty of the world. I'll just, you know, I can look in the garden and I'm like, oh, yeah, okay. Do this once in a while. That'll definitely do okay. Yeah. Do this once in a while. That'll definitely do it. Yeah. What, now there's advice I referred to earlier to your younger self. And the advice that you gave in Tribe of Mentors was, actually, no, it wasn't in Tribe of Mentors.

Starting point is 01:04:45 I take it back. This was in an interview. Wasn't effective to be a little bit more vigilant, right? To look over your books, to pay attention so that you wouldn't be taken advantage of. Because the world we live in, it's full contact. For better, for worse, if you're going to be on the playing field, like there are going to be people who want to separate

Starting point is 01:05:07 you from your money and many other things. Uh, is there, is there any other advice that you would give to your, actually, yes, to your, to your younger self and you can pick the age. So that's the thing. So it could be yourself of five years ago, could be yourself at age six, it could be any age. How old would you be and what advice would you give that version of yourself? I think in my mid twenties, I would have told myself to try to maybe buy a house. Like even if it was something small, I would have done that um and i would have also warned myself about signing model releases because although there are lots of people that really like are kind and like did you know i didn't know i was going to be famous but there are some people that took advantage of that yeah you know like suddenly i was in ad campaigns with without you know with a watch photoshopped on my

Starting point is 01:06:03 hand because someone took a portrait of me when I was like 25 and then they used it 10 years later. So there were things like that, which I didn't have any anticipation that that kind of thing would happen to me. I was just like, oh yeah, that's fine. I'll sign whatever was in front of me. But I guess people could have taken advantage of me

Starting point is 01:06:24 no matter what, if they wanted. What advice do you think yourself 10 years from now would give your current self? Oh, no one's ever asked that. Gosh, it's hard to take advice from your younger self. Yeah, well, if you were giving, if your older self were giving your current self advice, meaning you right now, we're getting advice from your older self, what do you think your older self would say?

Starting point is 01:07:03 Oh God, I'm worried that my older self might say that i should have had a child i'm concerned about that you know i'm not concerned about right now yeah but sometimes i go oh god i really hope that doesn't happen and then i think well there's always remedies for that too though you know there's you could adopt anytime you know um because it's really one of those things where i know sometimes i wish when it comes to children and people that have children i don't really envy any of my friends with children except for adult children like oh that's so cool you have this great adult child that's doing amazing things that is probably fun to hang out with but it doesn't always

Starting point is 01:07:42 work out like that you know it doesn't always work out like that, you know, it doesn't always work out like that. So, um, you know, I just, it's hard when you're in the line of work that I'm in, you know, uh,

Starting point is 01:07:54 I can't think of a time where I ever could have stopped and said, Oh, I think I'll just have a baby. And then I think about who I would have had a baby with back then. Like probably not the best idea. So, you know, it's a real, it's a, what can you do? You know, I feel like I chose my path. I don't necessarily feel like it's the right time for everyone to bring children into the world in any way, but.

Starting point is 01:08:21 No, I think, I think that, you know, I have friends who have kids who are very happy that I have friends who have kids who are very happy I have friends who have kids who are totally miserable and I have friends without kids who are both very happy and some who are very miserable so I think it's kind of another variable. Are you having children?

Starting point is 01:08:40 Interested? You know, I appreciate you asking I don't have kids that i'm aware of currently i did not plan there's a long period of time where i did not plan on having kids in part because i was afraid of fucking them up in some way uh and that i felt like the risk that the decision to bring a child into the world was inherently a selfish one in a way right like you're not doing it for your kids in a sense you're doing it because you want kids yeah number one and that if there were potential risk of or almost a guarantee that you're going to

Starting point is 01:09:18 damage your kids in some way and certainly i don't know anyone who's made it out of childhood unscathed like shit goes sideways that i i didn't feel like that was a a risk i wanted to take if that makes any sense uh i've started to feel differently about it uh is it because you're newly in love though because that's the thing you gotta get past that like new love thing and then yeah because that's like a science of like i should have a baby yeah you get kind of slap happy yeah yeah uh i i am with a wonderful woman my girlfriend uh that's that's a piece of it for sure i think that also uh i've done uh just a lot of work in the last handful of years and have come to a place where I feel confident that I could be, at the very least, a B-plus parent. I don't know if I'd be an A-plus parent,

Starting point is 01:10:24 but I think I could be at least a B plus parent. And also I think that there may just be a biological imperative and sort of existential itch that is hard to scratch without having kids. So that, you know, a friend of mine said to me recently, he said, you can find meaning by finding God or having kids. Having kids is easier. And so there may be an element of sort of inevitability in a sense, but I think I've also just come to accept that part of the human experience is making mistakes.

Starting point is 01:11:07 And if the, every parent makes mistakes and is going to condition their kids in ways they don't want to consciously or, or, uh, should they subconsciously? And that if you're going to sign up for having kids, you should just accept on the front end

Starting point is 01:11:27 that you're going to do damage and hopefully you can help them undo it later and you'll have a level of self-awareness to do that. So I would lean, like the have kids-o-meter is kind of leaning more towards having kids. Yeah, it moves a lot for me. Yeah. But ultimately,

Starting point is 01:11:47 I just think mostly about like adoption or, you know, I love animals. Me too. Yeah, me too. It's not, I know it's not the same thing,

Starting point is 01:11:59 but it is like, you know, it's, yeah, no, it's not the same thing, but this is going to piss off a lot of parents. It's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. This is going to piss off a lot of parents.

Starting point is 01:12:07 It's not the same thing, but there are a lot of parallels. This is going to upset a lot of folks. I know. Because they're like, little children are not animals or whatever. I'm like, actually, they technically are exactly animals, being mammals and all and uh there's a there's a great book called don't shoot the dog which is terribly titled but a fantastic book on in effect training of mammals and it talks a lot about i'm gonna get so much shit for this but that's okay training of dolphins because you can only really effectively use positive reinforcement

Starting point is 01:12:47 with, say, dolphins or aquatic mammals, because you're not going to hit them with a rolled-up newspaper. It doesn't work. They're just going to swim away from you. So you have to get very good at using cues, like a whistle or something like that, to indicate the behavior as a marker and then rewarding. And it turns out you can use that for training

Starting point is 01:13:05 just about anything. And one of the quotes, I believe it was in that book that I loved so much was, you know, if you can't train a chicken, you shouldn't be allowed to have a child. And I tend to believe that it's like, if you're not, if you can't be aware of your impact on another animal and how it shapes that animal's behavior, I don't think on some level, and of course, legally, this holds to no water whatsoever, but ethically, perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to have kids. You should be able to pass that test. And I have a dog now.

Starting point is 01:13:41 Adopted her a few years ago, about three and a half years ago. And I've satisfied for myself that I can at least keep a medium-sized mammal alive and healthy for that period of time. And so, we'll see. Anyway, I'm talking too much, but I think that's in part because it's been on the brain. And like you, it flips and flops. When I go to the airport and I see kids having a complete meltdown and their parents pulling their hair out and just having a hellish time of going through the process,

Starting point is 01:14:19 I'm like, I'm not sure. I just think like, also, I've been asked about it my whole adult life. And I think, wow, what, you know, in interviews, and I just always thought like, what if you were asking someone that could not have children, you know? And why do we have to put so much emphasis on if you don't have children, you're not, your life isn't full and you haven't done the most important job there is in the world? Because there are lots of people that can't have children for different reasons. Does that make them less of a person so that's one of the problems i have with people always putting so much emphasis on the importance of being a mother it's like it's kind of when you think about it you know it's kind of not very cool to ask people about that or to make that statement that um that it's the most important job in the world um

Starting point is 01:15:02 yeah i don't i don't think it should be the number one priority for everyone. I don't think any one thing should be, that I can think of, should be the number one priority for everyone, right? I mean, it just doesn't make any sense. And like you said, there are many cases in which for physical, medical, or other reasons,

Starting point is 01:15:22 it makes a whole lot of sense not to take the sort of biological birthing route or necessarily adopt. I know people who, I made friends of my parents and others who went their entire lives without kids and had very, very deep, rich, fulfilling lives and did a lot of good in the world. Uh, so yeah, in my case, TBD, still TBD. One thing I love in life is knowing women much older than me and asking for their advice. Um, like the thing that you asked me about earlier

Starting point is 01:16:01 about watching my finances, that advice came from, um from 1950s movie star and pinup model who's still around now, Mamie Van Doren. She's like a blonde bombshell. She was kind of like a Marilyn Monroe. But anyway, she was a big star back then. But anyway, I know her and I love to sit down with her and have her give me advice. And that was one of her things. It's like, watch your money. I know it's not fun.

Starting point is 01:16:27 And it's not fun to look at numbers and challenge people, but watch it all. And she also had said to me, she has one son. And she was like, I love my son, but it wasn't the most important thing I did in life. It wasn't, it's not something you have to do if you don't feel inclined. And she said, and if I'm looking at inclined and she said and if i'm looking at the world today the way i'm looking at the world today as compared to how it was in the 50s and 60s and 70s she's like i wouldn't do it now so i thought that was interesting i like talking to i have another friend named alona roy smithskin who's 100 years old and i love getting on the phone

Starting point is 01:17:00 with her and hearing she still has amazing advice and any advice come to mind that she's given from her well she she just has little pearls of wisdom she has an instagram that i love to follow and she just puts it out there all the time about mostly she's 100 and has she's 100 yeah she does and she well she's an amazing lady she has she's uh i i learned about her from a book called advanced style by my friend Ari Seth Cohen. I don't know if you've heard about this book, but it's about, he was obsessed with finding older ladies that dress in eccentric ways and wear eccentric makeup. And that are, you know, fashion icons in their own right, eccentric people. And I learned about her because she had because she's like four feet tall.

Starting point is 01:17:47 She has this flaming orange hair, and she makes her own eyelashes, like long red eyelashes, blue eyeshadow. And she's an artist, and she has a show, I think, too. Like she's a singer in Provincetown. Anyway, she's amazing. Her name's ilona royce smithskin oh boy how do you spell ilona i i l o n a yeah all right and we'll put it in the show notes as well okay for her instagram and so on yeah all right but she's an amazing but his book in general is amazing because it spotlights all these like you know elderly people and you know there's a lot of talk about you shouldn't wear that because you're of a certain age you know

Starting point is 01:18:29 and these are ladies that are colorful and amazing and fashion icons and living their lives and I think it's important to like you know have people like this spotlighted you know I was just actually reading this horrific article yesterday that my friend Liz Goldwyn pointed out to me. This writer, she was actually an editor at Vogue and so I was shocked that she wrote something like this. She was saying that Helena Christensen, who's 50, went to a party and she was wearing jeans and a strapless bustier. And she said it was completely inappropriate um for her to be flaunting that much skin at her age and mind you she looks fantastic when i'm hearing about this article i googled it you know and i read it it's a daily mail article which is obviously clickbait so i chose not to

Starting point is 01:19:17 share it because i was like oh yes i'm offended and outraged but that's exactly what they want from us they want me to have everyone read it and be outraged. But I did find it disturbing because they were basically saying, she was saying that once you're past childbearing age, you shouldn't be wearing clothes like that. Or you should open, let the other, the young people have their chance. And I mean, if you can see this picture of Helena Christensen, you'd be like, she looks so hot and she's perfect. And she says things in this article like, no matter how invisible your bingo wings are. I don't even know what that means. Well, you know, like when, you know, this, what is that?

Starting point is 01:19:57 Oh, your tricep? Yeah, your tricep. What is that? But I was like, what are you talking about? And she said that it's okay for men because they can procreate at any age, essentially. But once you are, you know,

Starting point is 01:20:12 beyond childbearing years, you shouldn't dress like that. And I just found it amazing that she used to be the editor at British Vogue. Wow. For like, in the 90s. Victorian perspective. It was really shocking.

Starting point is 01:20:24 And, you know, anyway, I just just it's a real interesting conversation though about like ageism and and how how uh you know we're we treat women of a certain age and it's one of those things that i feel like it's important to stand up for i almost retired a few years ago thinking like oh i should i'm 40 i should stop doing striptease what if i don't look as good as I used to? And then I thought like, wait, you have to, I have female followers and I have to stand for something.

Starting point is 01:20:52 And I think it's important to have examples of eroticism and sensuality in all different phases of life and to set examples for that. Because I look to people that are older than me, like Jennifer Lopez and, you know, Gwen Stefani and all these people that I'm like, oh, she's sexy. You know, like I can be like that too. So, I think it's important as much as it's, you know, it's not always easy and you open yourself up to criticism. It's important to some people to see examples of this. So here, here, well, Dita, this has been so fun. I really appreciate you taking the time and we're going to link to everything that you mentioned in the show notes so people can find all of that very easily. And for people listening, that's just a Tim.blog forward slash podcast. And if you search Dita, D I T AT-A, it'll pop right up. Now, I mentioned the social accounts where people can learn what you're up to, see what you're up to also more accurately in terms of at Dita Von Teese on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Are you more active on one than the others?

Starting point is 01:21:58 I'm mostly active on Instagram, I have to say. But I definitely use Facebook and a little bit of Twitter. I can't help it. It was the first one still good. And, uh, do you have any current projects or upcoming projects that you would like people to check out or keep an eye out for? Yeah. Um, well I have my lingerie line, which is at like Bloomingdale's and Nordstrom and a lot of online retailers. Um, I'm working on another book called fashioning the farm total, which will come out. It and a lot of online retailers. Um, I'm working on another book called fashioning the farm total, which will come out. It's a followup to my, um, my beauty book that I, that I wrote. And that one will come out, uh, I think in September, 2020. And this year I'm

Starting point is 01:22:37 touring with a new show, uh, kicking off in Australia in November, and then doing like eight weeks in Europe, March 2020 through April. And then I think I'll do the US sometime in 2020 as well. Well, you have a very exciting year, two years and many years ahead of you. Thank you so much for taking the time. Thanks for talking to me. This is really fun. Do you have any closing comments, requests,

Starting point is 01:23:06 anything at all that you'd like to say before we wrap up? I can't think of anything. Which is the most common response. That's what everyone says. I think we covered plenty. And I really hope people stay tuned. And I will provide everything that we spoke about in the show notes, as I mentioned. So thanks to you for being here and thanks to everyone for tuning in.

Starting point is 01:23:37 And until next time, craft your own path. Do not try to be the best of someone else. Try to discover and also piece together the unique path that only you can forge. So on that note, until next time, bye-bye. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun for the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up

Starting point is 01:24:27 in the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to 4hourworkweek.com. That's 4hourworkweek.com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it.

Starting point is 01:24:58 This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. Hiring can be hard, really hard, and it can also be super, super expensive and painful if you get it wrong. I certainly have had that experience firsthand multiple times, and I'm not eager to repeat it. So I try to do as much vetting as possible on the front end. And today, with more qualified candidates than ever, you need a solution. You need a platform that helps you to find the right people for your business. LinkedIn Jobs does exactly that. More than 600 million users visit LinkedIn to learn, make connections, grow as professionals, and more than ever, discover new job opportunities. In fact,

Starting point is 01:25:45 overall, LinkedIn members add 15 new skills to their profiles and apply to 35 job posts every two seconds. That's a crazy stat. LinkedIn does the legwork to match you to your most qualified candidates so that you can focus on the hiring process, getting the person into your company who will transform your business. They make sure your job post gets in front of the people with the right hard skills and soft skills to meet your requirements. They've made it as easy as possible. So check it out. To get $50 off of your first job post, go to linkedin.com slash Tim.

Starting point is 01:26:19 Again, that's linkedin.com slash Tim to get $50 off of your first job post. Terms and conditions apply. Check it out. linkedin.com slash Tim. I recommended it way back in 2010 in the 4-Hour Body, and I did not get paid to do so. I've been using it since before that, and I use it in a lot of different ways. I travel with it to avoid getting sick or to help mitigate the likelihood of getting sick. I take it in the morning to ensure optimal performance, and overall, it covers my bases if I can't get what I need from whole food meals throughout the rest of the day. And if you want to give Athletic Greens a try, they're offering a free 20-count travel pack for first-time users. I nearly always travel with at least three or four of these one-dose bags. In other words, if you buy Athletic Greens as a first-time buyer, you now get for a limited time an extra $79 in free product. So check out the details at athleticgreens.com forward slash Tim. Again, that's athleticgreens.com forward slash Tim. Again, that's

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The Tim Ferriss Show - #379: Dita Von Teese — The Queen of Burlesque

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The Tim Ferriss Show - #379: Dita Von Teese — The Queen of Burlesque

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.