The Tim Ferriss Show - #500: KevKev TimTim TalkTalk on Dragon Slaying, Lessons Learned, Viagra, and Assorted Nonsense

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Starting point is 00:03:25 Optimal minimum. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I ask you a personal question? Now would have seemed an appropriate time. What if I did the opposite? I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton. The Tim Ferriss Show, episode 500. I am your host, Tim Ferriss. I'm not Tim Ferriss. I'm Kevin Rose. Tim, thank you for having me, dude. I know I was your first guest on episode one, but I'm honored to be interviewing you for this episode. I am so thrilled and excited and wouldn't have it any other way. So I am stoked to be reunited. We have some wine. I have this kind of like magnum bottle of white wine. Kevin

Starting point is 00:04:22 worried that I had already polished off seven eighths of it, but I had, uh, I'm in the jungle with, uh, an Italian. There's more to that, but the table wine is courtesy of his house. And he gave me just enough to, it looks kind of like horse urine in this shot, but, uh, just enough to have fun without getting sloppy because we have a history with wine. You know, it's funny. I told Daria, I was like, okay, here's the deal. I'm going to pour two glasses into my glass and I don't care if I'm texting you, do not bring the bottle back down. I do not do it. And so I actually, but I, I totally screwed up and I brought the bottle in the city next to me now, but it was a good plan for as long as it lasted. Um, dude, so I, you know, it's funny. I remember you

Starting point is 00:05:07 came to me and you said, I think I want to do a podcast and you've done podcasts before. Cause I had done like 300 episodes of dignation prior to, you know, you starting yours. And I remember this is horrible, but it's true. I remember just being like, Tim, don't do a podcast. It's stupid. Well, I was trying to talk you out of it. I feel so bad for that now. Cause you went and you did it and obviously it's a massive success. So what do I know? But you must've given me some type of good advice or the bad advice wasn't compelling enough. Yeah, here we are. And I remember recording that first episode. We are in San Francisco, my first apartment I'd rented in San Francisco, and this huge

Starting point is 00:05:48 wooden table. And I remember being really nervous. We had all sorts of gear. We had all sorts of fancy mixers and everything else. We had somebody helping. My hands were sweaty, and I had a list of questions, a printout. And I remember in that first episode, number one, it was per your description, Tim, Tim, talk, talk, because we didn't have a name. And then I remember asking you a question, which was if you could be a

Starting point is 00:06:19 breakfast cereal, what would you be and why? And you went, oh, it's one of those interviews. And I was like, never again will I ask that question. You had to test them out though. You know, not every question works. So you were new to the game. It was good training. All right. So I saw you take a sip. So you've got your wine. Yeah. So you're drinking the table wine. I'm drinking grocery table wine. Familia Cielo, C-I-E-L-O from 1908, Pinot Grigio. And this is what this Italian family has been drinking. Out of my fancy, yeah, like 12 ounce water glass, since I don't have any wine glasses.

Starting point is 00:07:02 I am doing the 2016 Napa Valley Reserve. It is a fantastic white wine. Just a little Chardonnay. Good stuff. Congrats on being guest number 500 and congrats to a longstanding friendship. Honestly, it's been Yeah, cheers to that, brother. Lots of adventures. So cheers. Yeah. Cheers. it's been uh cheers to that brother lots of lots of adventures so cheers yeah cheers really nice to really nice to have continued to deepen and stay in touch over all these years absolutely i feel like that is probably as sentimental as it's going to get and uh you seem to have lots of arrows in the quiver for questions you gave gave me a lot of warnings via text message,

Starting point is 00:07:46 and I have not reviewed anything. Well, so this is the cool thing, is I was putting together a Google Doc, and I was like, okay, Tim, we'll share the Google Doc. I'll put some questions in there. Tell me what you think. And he's like, actually, I'd rather do this just sight unseen.

Starting point is 00:07:58 Let's just roll with it. So I went out, did a little Twitter post. You retweeted it we got a few hundred questions there also some of your good friends like Mr. Chris Saka who's a mutual friend of ours reached out and sent

Starting point is 00:08:14 me some very colorful questions if you will so I'm kind of saving those for a little bit well actually I'm going to start with a Saka one but some of the more juicier ones are going to be peppered in a little bit later in the show. So this is fun.

Starting point is 00:08:29 This is a good mix of serious and crazy. And yeah, it's a smorgasbord of questions, if you will. A grab bag of podcasting delights. I'm ready. Okay. So here we go. I'm actually going to lead off with a Sokka question because he sent so many good ones.

Starting point is 00:08:46 He said, what one thing do you eat that you've never wanted to admit to the four hour body tribe? Oh boy. Well, I will say the first thing that comes to mind because it's a recent example is if I've had two or more glasses of wine and there is pizza within 30 feet of me it's game over it's completely game over so i was having a bunch of pizza and by a bunch i mean like six to ten slices uh just a few days ago and this was at the tail end of a bottle of wine and my, one of my friends I was with here

Starting point is 00:09:26 said, what would all of your readers of the four-hour body say while you're prohibiting them from eating carbs? Look at yourself. And so that's the first thing that comes to mind. If there are any Tim Tams nearby, Tim Tams are this cookie treat that I just think are delicious. They're amazing. And there's the Tim Tam Slam, which is when you dunk it into something like milk or any number of other things. Tim Tams are also dangerous territory. So those are the pizza and Tim Tams. When you say 30 feet away, do you mean that like your phone is 30 feet away and you order pizza and have it delivered to your house? Because that's what I do. That's my downfall.

Starting point is 00:10:06 I'm eliminating the phone from this. If I walk, let's just say pre-COVID times, had a few drinks, I'm walking down a street to get to wherever I'm going and we pass a pizza joint. Or if it's within excusable rationalizing distance, like, oh, let's just go over and take a look at the menu, right? If it's a right turn and you have to go a quarter mile, I'm not going to do it.

Starting point is 00:10:30 So I'll try to preserve some dignity. But if it's within wandering distance, say there's a place called Home Slice on South Congress in Austin, and it's dangerously, dangerously close to the main kind of pedestrian area. So I would succumb. Yeah, we're in the same camp.

Starting point is 00:10:51 If anything was within a couple blocks of my house, it's like game over. Like that's just going to happen all the time. All right. So next question. Love the show. However, it seems that you're constantly searching for the next big life hack, next product that will satisfy, et cetera, that would be exhausting and would lead to constant anxiety. My question, Tim, have you found peace outside of having things or knowing things? That's a damn fine question. Is this from the interwebs?

Starting point is 00:11:20 It is. Yeah. My relationship to self-improvement or thinking about hacks and so on has changed over time. And the word hack used to not have as much baggage as it now does. So I use that term effectively never these days because it's just established or taken on such a kind of a nasty, negative overtone. But I'll tell a story. I think this illustrates how I'm reorienting quite easily. And that is I was spending time with an incredible, I want to say psychiatrist. He's also, I want to say, an ord's also, I want to say an ordained minister.

Starting point is 00:12:07 I may be getting some of the details wrong here. Maybe it's a masters of divinity. I don't know. Named Bill Richards. And Bill Richards is well-known also for being one of the most experienced, let's call it guides or facilitators above ground in the psychedelic world so he's facilitated hundreds of sessions along with a woman named mary cosimano who's who's equally impressive in so many ways and just an incredible human being and i spent time with bill he's supervised years and years of sessions both pre pre-prohibition, meaning pre the Controlled Substances Act and post. So he's done all sorts of trainings all over the world. And there were two things that stood out from that conversation immediately. Number one,

Starting point is 00:12:57 I asked him what books he could recommend for learning more about the process of guiding, the protocols they use, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And he said, well, so, you know, the problem with books. And I was like, what's the problem with books? And he said, too many words. Again, it gives you an idea of his personality. And then the second thing he said was related to doing the work, you know, because I said, I'm not afraid to do the work. And he said, well, you know, what's so tricky about doing the work. And then I, and I, because I said, I'm not afraid to do the work. And he said, well, you know what's so

Starting point is 00:13:25 tricky about doing the work? And I asked him what it was that was so tricky. And he said, well, there's a very thin line between doing the work and just picking on yourself. So I think that self-improvement and how much it affects you positively or negatively, for me personally, depends a lot on the motivation behind it, right? Are you running away from something? Are you running towards something? Are you finding problems with yourself or problems in your life just because you've been rewarded throughout your life as a problem solver? I think that's true for me. It's true for a lot of people. You're just good at solving problems. So you get really good at finding problems. Or are you doing it because there's some joy in doing it? Right? So for instance, right now I'm trying to pick up a couple of different games, like board games, chess, there are a number of things. And I find those really fun. So I'm improving my thinking and so on, looking at a game of complete information like chess, learning about classical games and all this stuff.

Starting point is 00:14:32 Legalsmate, I think, is one that I learned yesterday, which is just gorgeous with two knights. And I'm a novice, but I'm having so much fun doing it. Versus, let's just say, a contrast with that would be a therapy session that I had yesterday where we got into all this childhood stuff and revisited a bunch of trauma. And I came out of the session feeling much worse than when I went into it. And it occurred to me that I think that we can feel like we're doing a good thing sometimes when we're suffering and grinding, but that does not by default mean that we're doing something worthwhile or improving. And so after that session, I sort of committed to myself not to like dredge up all of the pain from the past in the name of doing the work just because I can.

Starting point is 00:15:28 So I feel like I have a very good relationship to hacks and all that stuff. Now, it doesn't cause me stress. And in fact, it never really has. But I think for a very long time, I looked for problems to solve because I was good at solving problems and not all of those problems were worthwhile. And many of those problems were just masochistic, if that makes any sense. It does. How do you apply this though, to actual products? Like for example, you know, you do the five bullet Friday, really famous newsletter, you finding all kinds of stuff. I imagine people are, they just send you free stuff. Like if you have any kind of following, it's like very common on the internet. People want to try and send you things to check out. Like, how do you not just accumulate a bunch of crap? Like I find that every little

Starting point is 00:16:13 object you own is sub some type of subconscious like burden, you know, it's just like just storing it. It's a burden. It's just psychic drag. It's like, imagine dragging all that shit around behind you in like a net. So what do you do? What do you do there? Because you must see so and get so much stuff. Like, how do you clear that out? How do you not try out the latest product? Yeah. Number one is I really don't encourage people to send things to me. I mean, you know this because for better or for worse, you've turned into my unpaid executive assistant. So people try to go through you and I'm just like, nah, I'm good. I'm good for now. And what I'll very often

Starting point is 00:16:53 do, number one, I have policies. So I try to make one decision that removes a thousand decisions, right? So even in 2009, I was getting 30 to 40 books sent to me by publishers or authors per week. That's impossible, right? You can't even begin to read those, let alone have your own life with your own priorities, if you bend to that type of incoming. So I initially just said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And they're all, but even saying no was exhausting and took a lot of time when you start to have not 30, 40 a week, but several hundred a week.

Starting point is 00:17:34 And I then posted, for instance, a blog post, which is a general policy of not reading any new books in 2020, meaning any books published in 2020. I've extended that to 2021. I'm not reading any books published in 2021. So when someone asks me or asks someone on my team, they can say, ah, sorry, Tim's just not doing that. Check out tim.blog forward slash new books. Just backdate your book, basically. Yeah, it depersonalizes it. So it makes it easier to say no, and it makes it easier for other people to receive no. The other thing is like, if someone's like, hey, let me send you blah, blah, blah, blah,

Starting point is 00:18:12 blah, free product, free fill in the blank. The first thing you got to remember is like, I remember somebody said once, and I can't remember the attribution, but like free sex is the most expensive sex you'll ever have, right? That's true for free books. That's true for free product. It's not free. If you have an audience, there's going to be a follow-up. And sometimes it's like, oh my God, 10 years later, I've had 73 emails from this person. Don't open that door. So if someone says, hey, I'd love for you to try X,

Starting point is 00:18:50 if it's a really close friend, and I know they're putting their reputation on the line and putting some skin in the game, they're risking something, then maybe. But very rarely, if it's a book or something else, I'm like, you know what? I'll buy it myself. So how do you, around the purchasing side of it, how do you make a decision to actually buy something? How do you prevent yourself from overspending on items? Is there anything that you use to be more minimal? Well, I know you've had this snooze function, right? Where you will allow yourself to make the 3 a.m. Amazon purchase. You have to hit snooze for 24 hours. So this brings up questions related to some level of what people might consider success. So you end up in situations, and this is a very rarefied situation. So I want to acknowledge that up front.

Starting point is 00:19:34 You and I are in very fortunate positions. But let's say I get sent a bunch of shit. Somehow it gets sent to me, and it's not useful to me. I'm not interested in it, but it could be very useful to someone else. Let's take an easy example. Someone sends me a bunch of schwag, right? Like sweatshirts and hats and so on. It's like, I have more, I have enough clothing to last me forever. I don't need any more t-shirts, none of it. The cheapest thing for me to do is to throw that out, right? To literally throw it in the trash. Okay. Then there are karmically better things to do, like taking it to goodwill, which is what I usually do. And then I'm paying an assistant 20, 30, $40 an hour to do that,

Starting point is 00:20:21 right? I could return something. This is another consideration, right? Like, am I actually going to return something if I don't want it? The answer is likely no. So I really try to measure twice and cut once in those cases. And I think I am disinclined to buy too many things right now. Although if you looked at my Amazon order history, that might sound ridiculous. But compared to say even a few years ago, I buy far fewer things because for me, the visual punishment of having a disordered kitchen table, of having a disordered house is so irritating. I'm very visually sensitive. I'm kind of like Monk from the TV show in that way. I dislike that so much. And I dislike waste so much.

Starting point is 00:21:19 This is particularly true of food. I'm very sensitive to food waste. That it's sort of a self-correcting system in that way. I've become much more sensitive to clutter in the last few years. Yeah, that makes sense. All right, let's move on to the next question. Is there any advice you used given to you or that you have given in the past that wasn't the best not trying to be a troublemaker i'm just wondering how high performers know when to course correct e.g. abandon faulty notions that makes a very good that's a yeah it does make sense that's a very

Starting point is 00:22:00 good and it's a very important question? Because you always get advice from people who have done well, or you see advice from people who've done well. And there's a survivorship bias, right? It's like the Warren Buffett parable of sorts. Maybe it's not a parable. Maybe it's a metaphor. I always mix up metaphor and analogy in any case. Maybe it's a simile. I can never keep those straight, but he talks about if you take like 10,000 orangutans and they're flipping quarters, like eventually you're going to end up with one orangutan who has like flipped heads a hundred times. And then that orangutan is going to write books about how to flip quarters and beat the stock market. So there's so much chance involved and there's such a survivorship bias,

Starting point is 00:22:47 meaning you only see the advertisements for the mutual funds that survive in a magazine like Barron's or whatever. It's important to ask that question. And I'm saying all of that to buy myself some time because I know those must exist. I'll give one, I'll give one. I had an incredible aversion to any type of investment

Starting point is 00:23:10 in publicly traded equities, in stocks, until just a few years ago. You know this. You've watched this, right? Were you telling people not to invest in stocks or was this something someone told you?

Starting point is 00:23:21 So was it advice that you gave or advice that you received? It was advice that I received from a few people I respect who were very uncomfortable in investing in publicly traded equities because they felt like they could not directly impact the value of those companies. And these were startup investors. And that made a lot of sense to me at the time and that logic still makes sense right like what am i going to do to increase the the market cap and the the price per share of tesla right like very very little i mean i suppose my audience is large enough that maybe for a day i could like

Starting point is 00:23:59 register a blip maybe but really not much and my thinking has become more nuanced, right? Because the argument that I can't have a substantial impact on the price per share, therefore I shouldn't invest, it's kind of two parts, right? So the assumption that I can't have a substantial impact on price per share, that's valid. But does that therefore lead to the conclusion I should not invest? I think there are other considerations. So thinking about timeline, right? So if I'm trying to invest in a company over six months, I have zero confidence or very little confidence unless there is a huge drop for some reason that I think is unwarranted.

Starting point is 00:24:39 But if it's over a two, three year time horizon and I don't feel any pressure to trade, then I become much more comfortable investing in a hand, excuse me, a handful, got the wine burps already after one last. I feel much more comfortable investing in a handful of companies that I feel are kind of inevitable, unless they're grossly mismanaged, like from a tech trend perspective, they're kind of inevitably going to do decently well over a two to three year period. So how did you know when to course correct though? That was actually a really interesting part of the guy's question is like, as a high performer, like, you know, it's easy to get really kind of into someone's advice, especially if it comes from someone that's like super vetted

Starting point is 00:25:21 and you really believe in like, when did you decide like, this is bad advice. I need to change this. Yeah. You're good at this. You should interview people. So I think it was forced upon me in a way by COVID in this particular instance, because I was sitting in almost, well, I shouldn't say entirely cash, but largely in cash. Let's call it, just for the sake of argument, 50% cash. Yeah, it was so dumb. Well, maybe. Well, I mean, in all cash, just by inflation, you're losing money.

Starting point is 00:25:59 Just letting it sit there. Well, we could fight over this one for a long time. I slept well at night for several years. On a bed of cash. Because I had a bed of cash. And I don't think that should be underestimated. I don't think a good investment is a good investment if it has really high returns, but you're like sweating bullets with insomnia, right?

Starting point is 00:26:24 And that's a very personal thing. So for me, having a lot of reserves and cash helped me sleep. I don't regret it. But when COVID hit and right before COVID hit and there was the gigantic plummet, I knew there was going to be a plummet or I suspected with high conviction, there was going to be a plummet or I suspected with high conviction there was going to be a gigantic plummet. I was not savvy with options or credit default swaps. That was just not on the menu for me. But I thought there were going to be buying opportunities in many places. And so then the question was, well, I've been sitting on the sidelines. I said I would be back even in 2015. Right now we have to be aware of the sunk cost fallacy, not the sunk cost fallacy, but the confirmation bias and all these various things where it's like

Starting point is 00:27:10 if I publicly stated when there's blood in the streets, I will be back and I will invest. I said that in 2015 when I, quote unquote, retired from startup investing, but I deeply believed it. I was like, as Tim Ferriss, as the person who really understands very few aspects of investing with any competence, I don't get a lot of fat pitches like this. And I was like, where am I going to put money? I have all this money that I have claimed I've been waiting to deploy. What the fuck am I going to do with it? And I spoke with dozens of investors, not just two people I respected, and ultimately came to believe very deeply in a few positions. Whether the consequences, severe and also extended, of COVID on both the economy,

Starting point is 00:28:01 on technology, on behavior, were acute or two, three years long, companies I felt would really benefit in either scenario. And the liquidity profile of equities, right? Like you want to get out, you can get out. You might get kicked in the balls from a tax perspective, et cetera, but you have liquidity, unlike a lot of the stuff that we do, right?

Starting point is 00:28:23 Like you put money in and like you are in, like your chips are on the table for five to 10 years. We both have examples that are way past 10 years. And so that would be an example. The example is interesting, not because equities, not because the stock market, not because blah, blah, blah. It's the process, right? And I was lucky to have a forcing function. I will say, here's another one. I have really relied on dietary interventions and exercise and so on for manipulating my blood markers, right? My blood tests for a long time. And if you look at my lipid profile, so my, let's just say my cardiac and lipid profile, genetically speaking, I have terrible, terrible, terrible software for a few things. It doesn't matter if I'm vegan. I've tried that for

Starting point is 00:29:21 a period of time just to see what it did for my blood. It doesn't matter if I'm fasting. I've done tons of fasting. Pure keto. It doesn't matter if I eat all meat. I've tried all these things and I've looked at the blood tests and my ApoB count and various other things are terrible. They're so bad. You and me both, man. It sucks. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like, look, I have, my dad's had a heart attack. My uncles have had strokes and cardiac issues. This is a, like, we just got dealt a really shitty hand from a cardiac perspective. And I've never considered going on medication like a Zetamib is the one I'm considering long-term or indefinitely, but after doing cardiac calcium scoring, which is zero currently, but also angiograms and all of these things

Starting point is 00:30:12 that are more nuanced and provide more detail, I've kind of changed my tune. I think there is a point where the risk-benefit ratio leads one to the conclusion that it makes sense, right? And this is true with also like the vaccines, right? I think the COVID vaccines make overwhelming sense for a very high percentage of the population. So those would be two examples. Yeah, that's great. Awesome. Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. That's great. Awesome. Don't miss out on the best days in the market. Stay invested in a long-term automated investment portfolio. Wealthfront pioneered the automated investing movement, sometimes referred to as

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Starting point is 00:31:48 a lot of boxes. Smart investing should not feel like a rollercoaster ride. Let the professionals do the work for you. Go to wealthfront.com slash Tim and open a Wealthfront investment account today, and you'll get your first $5,000 managed for free for life. That's wealthfront.com slash Tim. Wealthfront will automate your investments for the longterm and you can get started today at wealthfront.com slash Tim. All right. Another question. I'll let you try and guess who this one is from. Ends with Aka. When was the last time, when was the last time a blood or urine sample was stored in your fridge? That's a good one. Cause there was a time when you open up your fridge and it's like a six pack

Starting point is 00:32:33 of beer, there's just urine everywhere. Like there's urine, blood, stool samples were the best with the biohazard marker on it. Yeah. You have to be very careful in the Ferris household. You also, you all, you also really don't want to take any supplements until you confirm that the label corresponds to what is actually in the bottle. You have to be very cautious. I was in your house.

Starting point is 00:32:55 I went to the bathroom one time and like, I don't know, you had the cupboard open or some shit. And I look up and it's like, it's like a freaking Walgreens dude. Like you had thousands of supplements. I was like, how does he take all this stuff? I mean, I guess you just were accumulating over time.

Starting point is 00:33:11 Yeah. It's been accumulated over time. I, I also have dramatically reduced the number of supplements that I take, but all right. So as far as blood, blood and urine samples go, I haven't stored any of that in the refrigerator for a long time. Now, it doesn't mean that I haven't taken samples. So the last time I took, let's see, blood and urine samples, I mean, within the last two weeks or three weeks,

Starting point is 00:33:38 within the last three weeks. But I have realized during COVID that there is such a thing called mobile phlebotomy. So you can, rather than going into Quest or one of these labs to have a draw performed or into your doctor's office, there are in fact services or people who provide mobile blood draws. an appointment you could even meet them outside and literally it's like you wake up you probably do not eat breakfast but you wake up you're fasting and you have a blood draw within five to ten minutes they're actually not that expensive either i looked into i had one happen here in oregon and it was like 50 bucks to have it done and it's fantastic like what what especially during covet dude you don't want to be around it like 15 other people in a room yeah it's amazing i have found it to be a godsend and really really convenient mobile phlebotomist for people who are wondering how that's spelled phlebotomist is ph phl phlebotomist with a bunch of e's and o's and other wheel of fortune ingredients all right all right uh i will say though that people wanted us to get a lot of the comments

Starting point is 00:34:51 was they get personal like get into it i i will tell one other little story when i when i was leaving your house that one time i remember this is a long time ago it's like a decade ago or something you you're like you're like okay like most friends they say like goodbye like you know give you a hug or whatever fist bump whatever you like hand me like you're like, okay, like most friends, they say like goodbye, like, you know, give you a hug or whatever, fist bump, whatever. You like hand me like, you're like, all right, dude, like have a good one. Like, and you hand me like a bottle of beef liver pills. Do you remember this? I'm like, oh, those are great. I'm like, okay, cool friend. Thanks for the beef liver. You didn't even tell me what to do with them. It's just like, hey, it takes a beef liver on your way out. Yeah. Those were, that's desiccated beef, from grass fed cows in Argentina. I remember that. Yeah. Those, I had a friend who

Starting point is 00:35:31 was, uh, deficient in all sorts of things. I gave him those and he took them and he was like, I feel like I'm on crack. Like I have so much energy that I cannot even begin to understand how tired I was for so long. So yes. Do you remember what brand that was? Offhand? I don't, I don't either. It's on Amazon.

Starting point is 00:35:51 I know that I ordered it on Amazon. Nice. So, all right. Caveat emptor. Beware. You're not all beef liver pills are created equal. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:59 You don't want like nasty hormone injected beef liver pills. Like don't know. No. All right. So, uh, going a little bit more sensitive. I wish we had like some background music that we could play while this

Starting point is 00:36:10 kicks in. I, I bet, I bet we can figure out some background. Yeah. That's like a nice, we'll make it happen. Sweet.

Starting point is 00:36:16 You have the resources. How, how did you meet and fall in love with your girlfriend? Just a quick note from the editor in post-production. This is Tim. I had to cut part of this one for privacy reasons, but I love you all very much. Now, back to our show. That's amazing. Which is a strong hand. That's a good move. And I was very interested. So texted her.

Starting point is 00:36:47 We had a drink. We met up. And the rest is history. That's amazing. That was quite a few years ago. So let me ask you a question, though, because your fans are going to want this. I have to do it. I apologize, Tim. It says in the actual question, fall in love.

Starting point is 00:37:03 So when was the, like for me you know you talked about what when i met daria at the bar we talked about zelda and she was a big zelda fan i was like oh my god i could love this girl like it was there something that jumped out during that first couple dates where you're just like this girl could be an amazing match for me oh it was and again what were the traits like was there anything that you jumped out as like a common movie? Like something she said that was funny? Like what was it that like started to check those boxes for you? You know, it was none of that.

Starting point is 00:37:32 It was none of the data points or things she said. Like, oh, we have that in common. Oh, our values are aligned. It was more of a feeling. Like I felt very at ease with her. I felt like I didn't need to have my defenses up. I felt like there were, I was very confident there were no ulterior motives. That is the hugest thing for you, dude.

Starting point is 00:37:59 That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just felt very comfortable and she was so playful and funny and light. Basically all the things I'm not most of the time. And she also gave me so much energy. You know what I'm talking about? Like that's a big deal, right? Like there are people who drain your energy and there are people who give you energy. And there are some people who are maybe neutral, but I think over time, as you interact with more

Starting point is 00:38:30 people, as you get older, certainly as you develop an audience of any type, you become much more sensitive to that because you're much more exposed to it. And she just gave me so much energy. I mean, it was such a net positive for my state of being. And I think that drove it. And yes, we ended up having all of these values in common. And yes, we ended up having lots of priorities and interests in common, but that was secondary to the feeling. That's so cool that, you know,

Starting point is 00:39:03 one of the things that, you know, I've talked about privately a lot that I think is worth mentioning, you can always cut it out like you do. By the way, just so people know, you've cut out some shit out of previous podcasts. Don't cut this out. I want to tell people. There are, now for some very good legal reasons in some cases,

Starting point is 00:39:25 but yes, continue. So I was just going to say that I love that she brings down, brought the anxiety level down for you because one of the things that, that I know is, is tough for, for almost probably anybody that has some, some fame and fortune as you have, it's like, there are so many people that would date you, you know, because of your quote unquote, Tim Ferriss. And like, there's, there's money and fame that goes along with that. Right. So you could go to LA and you, there's any number of people I'm sure that you could date because of those reasons. And because of that, I know you've had a pretty big wall. Like you put up a wall to protect yourself. Cause that's not what you want. You want someone long-term. You don't want

Starting point is 00:40:01 just like some rando. And it's cool that she, no, it's cool that that she brought that down though like that's a huge thing for you to find i'm happy about that yeah i'm happy about it too thrilled about it it's uh it's fucking weird you know having uh you know meeting people who let's just say eight times out of 10 have Googled your name beforehand. That's fucking weird. Yeah. It's really, really strange. And you have to be very careful because let's not kid ourselves. Like there are a lot of sharks out there.

Starting point is 00:40:36 Yeah. It's been really nice. And her parents are amazing. I've spent a lot of time with her parents and she's very down to earth. And by down to earth, I say that in the most complimentary way possible, right? By down to earth, it makes me think of, I think his name is Donald Nuth, K-N-U-T-H. But at some point, he disavowed email. I think he was at IBM. i might be making that up and he said email is great for keeping on top of things he's like but i don't want to keep on top of things i want to get to

Starting point is 00:41:12 the bottom of things i'm paraphrasing here but people who are down to earth from my perspective are like getting to the bottom of things they're aware of like the tectonic plate level of things moving and their awareness is much more grounded i use that word again in what i would consider a true reality than a lot of the people who are higher up in the stack, right, of abstraction. So there's a computer science analogy here, but I won't belabor that because I'll just embarrass myself. The point being, I felt like she really had her feet on the ground and was paying attention to the important things. And she had an awareness, including a self-awareness, perhaps principle among all of those that led me to feel very

Starting point is 00:42:06 comfortable. But when people are surfing the chop, when they're on the surface and it's like whatever's trending on Twitter is directing their attention for hours a day, even if they're on some level at their core, really good people, it makes them a liability. Does that make sense? Because they're so easily swayed to one channel or direction or meme or hashtag or movement or crisis. That's a very unpredictable person. I was on cue. That was good. I like that. Jeez, my phone's ringing. I don't know why. Oh, he called me twice. Sorry. You get pushed through.

Starting point is 00:42:48 Keep going. No problem. Who was that? Was that your bail bonds? Tony Conrad just freaking called multiple times. Fucking Tony Conrad. I know. Ruining the podcast.

Starting point is 00:42:58 God damn it. Tony's a good friend. So feel free to give him shit. If you guys actually want to, just as a side note, research a really good early stage investor, who's a good dude and really likes his coffee. And he will tell you about Blue Bottle. So be prepared. You should check out Tony Conrad. He's a good guy. Also partner at your firm. So he's a colleague, a coworker. He's done some good deals. He's got a good guy. Also a partner at your firm. Yes. He's a colleague, a coworker. He's done some good deals. He's got a great eye.

Starting point is 00:43:27 Yeah, all right. So let's move on to the next question. Name a mistake you made in one of your books that you wish you could take back. There has to be something. Don't say there is. I don't know. Oh, there's got to be something.

Starting point is 00:43:40 I mean, there are probably hundreds of them. My books are fucking long. I mean, you have so many opportunities to fuck. I mean, before our body, there had to be something i mean there are probably hundreds of them uh my books are fucking long i mean you have so many opportunities for our body there had to be something like the consumption of horse urine or there was something in there that you have well i mean there was one mistake that i pulled out so in the first edition of the for our body there's a whole chapter on extended breath holds and i realized that's just too dangerous. People don't understand the safety precautions you need to take for breath holds. And it was yanked. So that chapter- Did it actually make it depress?

Starting point is 00:44:11 Yeah. It made it depress for one printing. That was a David Blaine chapter talking about how he trained me to hold my breath for like five minutes. And I realized that you just have to assume that 90% of the people out there aren't going to read any of the safety cautionary tales, right? They're not going to read the caveats. They're not going to read the preamble. They're going to skip straight to the how to, and it's, it's, it's very dangerous. So that was one. How about any of the science? Cause the science changes so fast. Is there anything you look back on and you're like, gosh that's just not accurate anymore well i will say there was a weight loss stack of supplements called pag yes named pag which was polycosin all probably mispronouncing that but i've only read it never heard it said

Starting point is 00:44:57 in fact alpha lipoic acid garlic extract like allicin and green tea extract preferably decaffeinated and of that stack the most suspect or questionable of those is the first polycosinol and there are some studies that came out of cuba but i mean like how much can you trust that if they're exporting sugarcane and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I would say if I were to put anything on the chopping block, it would probably be polycocinol. And really the evidence for that from an NF1 perspective was my own personal experience. There seemed to be some effect on cholesterol or lipid metabolism

Starting point is 00:45:47 with polycocinol that increased fat loss above and beyond that, which I was able to achieve with AGG. But that is not doubly blinded. That is not randomized. That's not placebo controlled. So who the fuck knows?

Starting point is 00:46:03 But the ALA is in there for fat loss, right? Yeah. So yeah, alpha lipoic acid is insulinomimetic, as I understand it. It imitates and produces some analogous effect to insulin to a lesser degree. So alpha lipoic acid is interesting. If you over consume it, it can cause all sorts of issues, which is true of a lot of things.

Starting point is 00:46:28 Like you over consume zinc, it can inhibit copper absorption. Like you have to be very careful with supplements, which is part of the reason why I have really reduced the number of supplements that I consume. This is a great segue into that question, actually. It's like, what do you consume these days in terms of supplements? I consume. Well, this is a great segue into that question, actually. It's like, what do you consume these days in terms of supplements?

Starting point is 00:46:47 Not much. I take zinc occasionally. I do find it to help sleep. I do find it to help lucid dream induction, which we've talked about before. I find zinc interesting also from an immune perspective, but if you overtake it or you take it too consistently, it can cause all sorts of issues. I take right now B12 and L-methylfolate, Jarrow's specifically.

Starting point is 00:47:15 That is- Your homocysteine levels or is that why? Yeah. Yeah. Related to homocysteine. So that is dependent on my personal blood profile. So that doesn't mean everyone listening to this should take that. Right. And I also am taking right now, cystus quadrangularis, which kind of has a funny tie into us actually. And also methyl sulfonyl methane or MSM.

Starting point is 00:47:44 I'm taking both of those because I'm nursing a wrist injury. And I found them to be very helpful with joint injuries or connective tissue, ligament, tendon issues. So, cisus quadrangularis is what I took during our trip to china i took alpha lipoic acid and sissus s i s s u s quadrangularis you'll figure it out i took those two together before every meal because we were eating pounds of fucking rice every day yeah and i would be doing workouts in my like skivvies with my backpack you remember that once you see Tim Ferriss in his underwear doing air squats in front of your bed, like you cannot unsee that shit.

Starting point is 00:48:31 And you said something to the effect of like- I said, quit doing air squats in your fucking underwear in front of my bed. Well, there was that. There was that for sure. And then there was also like, we're just getting fatter and fatter and you're getting more and more ripped.

Starting point is 00:48:45 That's right. What the fuck is going on? That was the most confusing part because we were like a week into the trip and Glenn and I are just fat as shit from all that rice. And you're like six packs are popping out. It was crazy. Yeah. So I'm taking that stuff again, but not for the fat loss, for the potential joint assistance. Wrists are a huge pain in the ass. I jacked my wrist really badly and I want to get back into handstand practice.

Starting point is 00:49:15 So I'm eager to get it figured out. All right. Actually leading, I want to stay on that for one more quick topic. Someone was asking, how is your body these days? You talked about your wrist, but these are three questions real quick. Do you still practice for our body and what is your approach to longevity? So is there any practices that you're doing now on the longevity

Starting point is 00:49:34 side, kind of transitioning out, out of the, I just put, need to put mass on, but more on the, I want to live longer. Yeah. I would say those are probably inversely proportionate, right? Right. The more you try to put mass on the shorter, you're probably making your life if you're doing it over an extended period of time, at least. But I would say body, I'm not in great shape right now. I've had a bunch of injuries, which just goes to show, I think it's better to have a few extra percentage points of body fat and more strength than to be lean and sacrifice strength. I think right now I've sacrificed strength for a bunch of reasons. I'm in the jungle. I'm eating pretty poorly and not getting

Starting point is 00:50:21 much in terms of resistance training in. And so I would say body overall right now is pretty achy and I'll fix that. I have high degree of confidence that I can fix it. So I'm not worried about it, which leads to the four-hour body piece. I still follow a surprising amount of what was in the four-hour body. If anything, the vast majority of the four-hour body that was viewed very skeptically, was received very poorly, has accrued an incredible amount of scientific support in the last 10 years because that was published in 2010. So I am very proud of the four-hour body. That was kind of the tip of the spear with a bunch of areas that has only received more support in the last 10 years.

Starting point is 00:51:08 So I'm very happy with that. And I would say the general tenets still hold for sure. So from the perspective of slow cadence weightlifting a la Occam's protocol, I probably wouldn't be eating the same food because I'm not trying to gain mass, but using that type of slow cadence or super slow protocol to add muscle mass while minimizing injury potential. Absolutely. I'll be doing a bunch of that. And then there's a bunch of stuff from Tools of Titans. So let's not forget that Tools of Titans was basically my update to 4-Hour Workweek, 4- week, for our body, and for our chef simultaneously.

Starting point is 00:51:48 There's a bunch of stuff in Tools of Titans related to, say, glute medius training, related to gymnastic strength training, and so on. Acro yoga that I view as a really important component of what I do these days for physical longevity, meaning like how old you feel, I think is how old your joints feel very often. And aside from that though, like with the longevity stuff, like, am I using metformin?

Starting point is 00:52:20 No. Am I using rapamycin? No. Would I consider it? Maybe at some point. But the most likely thing to kill me is heart disease. So really, I can focus on so-called longevity drugs. But for me personally, those longevity drugs might take the form of something like an azetamide.

Starting point is 00:52:42 Probably not a statin due to the fact that I am a hyper absorber of cholesterol, not necessarily a hyper producer. So you need to get really deliberate and surgical about how you approach medication. And none of this is medical advice, should not be construed as medical advice since who the fuck am I? So talk to your GP. But I think the obsession, this is going to upset some people, but the obsession over longevity is often very misplaced. I looked at one point at the average lifespans of males in my family on both the paternal and maternal lines. And if they didn't die really, really early, which they clearly didn't because they lasted long enough to procreate, but if they didn't

Starting point is 00:53:31 get wiped out by typhoid fever at age 35 or something in the 1800s, pretty much all of them die at 85. They die around 85, fucking everybody. And it doesn't matter if it's you know 20 years ago or 300 years 85 is a good run dude that's not that bad it's not that bad so as far as i take that is yeah so as far as as the as you know pulling straws like i didn't get the short straw i didn't get the short test straw but it is striving for immortality i'm glad there are people who are preoccupied by it and are spending time on it all things equal which is never the case by the way but all things equal would i prefer to live to 120 versus 85 yeah why not sure but am i gonna do caloric restriction every day so my testosterone falls to the floor and like i lose all my muscle mass and I look like a fucking prisoner of war?

Starting point is 00:54:29 No, I'm not going to do that. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't spend a lot of time thinking about longevity per se or ultra long lifespan, I do spend time thinking about what stupid mistakes I can prevent easily or what medications or supplements or interventions I can implement easily that will prevent me from dying earlier than I should based on my genetic average. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, that's the whole Peter Attia thing, which I think is beautiful. Just really digs into the family history and says what are the things you're going to die from and let's prevent those from happening you know yeah yeah totally it's like

Starting point is 00:55:12 for the you know the focus on the fundamentals focus on the basics next question best movie to watch on mushrooms oh that's a good one i you know i it depends a lot on the dose it depends a lot on the dose like if you're micro dosing you can handle one type of movie if you're on like three grams of mushrooms just look at the wall it's very just fucking chill out and look at a flower because it's gonna you know, three grams is actually navigable for a pretty decent percent of the population, but like five, six grams, just lay down later, just lay down and listen to some really cheesy spa music and fucking relax. Cause it's going to be an interesting six hours, but, but let's just say hypothetically that someone has taken 600 milligrams three to 600 milligrams of psilocybe mushrooms dried i would say spirited away oh arguably my favorite movie of all time the

Starting point is 00:56:14 animated movie spirited away will fucking blow your mind and if if that isn't interesting, I think soundtrack is important to pay attention to. Do not watch something, even if it's beautiful like Baraka, if it has a weird moody soundtrack, that may not be good for you. So I would say something, my predisposition would be something animated like Lilo and Stitch or how to train your dragon

Starting point is 00:56:48 you know something like that if you try to get too fancy if you're like i'm gonna watch a moody black and white french film you're just asking to get fucking kicked in the nuts yeah when i was a kid it was pink floyd the wall that's but that was just not that was not mushrooms that was weed so i think that'd be a little too intense for mushrooms. Different. I would say pay attention to soundtrack.

Starting point is 00:57:13 When in doubt, pay attention to soundtrack. All right. Next question. What is something you have failed at but haven't spoken of? People just want to know about your failures, man. Yeah, they want all the number 500 the low light rail uh let's see something i've failed at but haven't talked about has there you know you did this you did this series where you went and did a bunch of episodes you know you hack things really quickly and you're so good at like consuming books and

Starting point is 00:57:44 like getting to the meat of what something is and figuring it out. There has to be something where you were just like, I want to figure this out. And you just fucking suck at it. Right. Like, well, I mean, honestly, episode one of the Tim Ferriss experiment when I did parkour, which was my insistence. I was like, we're going to do parkour first episode one. And I fucked myself up so badly i mean i had so many injuries like elbow wrist knee i tore three of my four quadriceps these are your thigh

Starting point is 00:58:17 muscles front of like quadriceps four right i tore severely tore three of them from impact from jumping off of stuff. It was a fucking disaster, like an unmitigated disaster. And I don't think I talked to, I've talked about that much. And so I insisted with, in retrospect, the most idiotic reasoning ever that we would do parkour first. And what that meant was we had 13 episodes to film. We were filming every fucking week without a vacation for 13 weeks straight. And the first week I basically became a cripple. Like I fucking ruined myself. It was so bad. And so, you know, for weeks afterwards, I'm wearing like medical grade compression pants, which take an hour to get on. If you imagine you're a three...

Starting point is 00:59:08 I'm not a 300-pound guy, but just imagine you're a 300-pound guy, and you have elastic Gap Kids fucking long underwear that you have to get on. It takes forever. It takes so long. And there are points, I've definitely not talked about this where I was so fucked up after that parkour episode and I'd be wearing these like compression pants just to function to like hobble around like a pirate for, exaggeration, but they took fucking forever to get off. It'd be like an extra small wetsuit that you have to get off your legs. And I would be so tired that I'd be like,

Starting point is 00:59:51 I'd get it down to like my mid calf and I'd be like, fuck it. And I would just lay down on the bed, like with these compression pants around my ankles or my shins, unable to get them off. And I would just sleep. I would just sleep with these things around my ankles. So that's one that comes to mind. That's a good one.

Starting point is 01:00:11 There are many. Yeah, there are many, there are many, but that's, that's a colorful one. That's amazing. Uh, what, okay. When it happens, what type of dad do you want to be? Ooh, that's a big one. When it happens, what kind of dad do I want to be? Ooh, that's a big one. When it happens, what kind of dad do I want to be? You got to leave the space gap in here when we had the episode. Yeah, it's good. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:38 He's thinking, he's thinking everybody I'm watching. Uh, it's like watching a dog trying to figure out a maze uh i i you know i i think that the first i'll go with the first two that come to mind i just want to be really present and really engaged and and loving obviously but i i just want to really fucking pay attention and be engaged because I know so many guys, including good friends of mine who are just like, yeah, man, I'm fucking missed it. Like they grew up so quickly and like, yeah, you missed two years. It's like missing 20 years.

Starting point is 01:01:20 So I want to be really present and really engaged. Do you? And I think it's, yeah, if I pay attention to that, I feel like all the tactical sleep training versus attachment versus whatever, like I can figure that all out. But if you don't have the prerequisite attention and awareness and engagement, then none of that, all that stuff is window

Starting point is 01:01:47 dressing. I feel like when I think about being a father, I think about some of the attributes that my own dad had that were amazing. And I would certainly want to continue those on. And then other little tweaks I want to do, because, you know, that's what we're doing. We're kind of pushing things forward. What attributes would you say did you really enjoy from your father? And there are any little tweaks that you would make? You know, I think my parents did a great job considering the circumstances that we found ourselves in, right? I mean, I think a lot like you, we didn't have very much money. You know, there was not budget for new bikes and stuff like that.

Starting point is 01:02:27 We made everything go a long way. Lots of TV dinners. Lots of TV dinners. I was there too. Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. God.

Starting point is 01:02:38 There was the good, the bad, and the ugly with the TV dinners. Like those shitty brownies were so delicious. Those shitty, shitty brownies in the middle square at the top. Those are so good. Um, and the fried chicken was good, but some of the, some of the TV dinners,

Starting point is 01:02:51 not so great. We did a lot of more beef stew in my house. That was good. I love that. You know, and, and there was all these special moments, like some of the celebratory,

Starting point is 01:03:03 I guess something big happened. And then we had a celebratory dinner we go to red lobster i'm a red lobster we'd have we'd have virgin daiquiris and immediately get brain freeze and then eat those fried mozzarella sticks and they were so fucking good so you know like i feel like my parents did a really good job on a lot of levels. I will have the benefit of more time. If I in any way say I don't have time or I feel like I don't have time, I just want to plant the seed now that that is utter horseshit.

Starting point is 01:03:44 We make time for the things that matter. And I'm in a much better position than my parents were financially. Did your dad work a lot? Did he travel a lot or work a lot? Or what was it like? He didn't travel a lot. My mom and dad worked a lot. And I'm good at working, right? Like you and I are both good at playing

Starting point is 01:04:10 certain games and it's very challenging for me at least to sit on the sidelines or switch games when you've spent so much time getting good at certain games. Yeah. That's part of the reason I'm in the middle of nowhere right now is to just create a little bit of space and prevent myself from over committing to a bunch of new projects just because I have a void or a vacuum. And I'm excited about the fatherhood,

Starting point is 01:04:42 about being a parent. I'm excited for you. I think it's going to be a fun chapter. Yeah, long chapter, long chapter. Yeah. The longest chapter. Especially at our age, man. I just think, the thing I think about is just like

Starting point is 01:04:55 when our kids are 21, we're going to be so old. It's like going to be crazy. Yeah, we're going to be really old. You and I can go to the park with walkers together. Exactly. All right, next question from, this is, I can go to the park with walkers together. Exactly. All right. Next question from this is, I had to say the name cause this was a tweet from Hun's conduit.

Starting point is 01:05:10 So some guys using his business account to tweet at us. This guy runs conduit, which is great. Tim famously asks his guests about a message they would hypothetically plaster on a billboard. Will you ask him about his current message? What would your current billboard message be? You know,'t my message is still the same yeah it hasn't changed much and that is and i i've borrowed this from other people but you are the average of the five people

Starting point is 01:05:36 you associate with most yeah that's a great one like like whoever you spend a lot of time with like you are going to absorb and vice versa, right? They're going to absorb you. So really be aware of that. Like physically, emotionally, psychologically, financially. Yeah. It's so true. I've just seen it confirmed over and over and over and over again

Starting point is 01:06:00 for me and for other people. Yeah, that's a great one. I don't think you can get better than that one. That's great. Next question from Yeah, that's a great one. I don't think you can get better than that one. That's great. Next question from Ryan, hair transplant, question mark. Would you do a hair transplant? No, not at this point. They have, the technology has come a long way.

Starting point is 01:06:17 Do not knock that right away because there are, it looks really good. I have a couple of friends that have done it. They're not gonna be named here, but it can look amazing. Look, I mean, here's my perspective. There is one reason for me to get hair transplant. By the way, if this is financial, I will pay for your hair transplant.

Starting point is 01:06:36 I'm going to say that right now. I'm serious. I'm serious. I will pay for it right now. I'll go on the record. Do I need Kev Kev? Like etched in the side like kid and play style exactly no i number one i'm very fortunate to have a reasonably regular dome so i don't have

Starting point is 01:06:57 a whole lot of moguls on my skull and i don't mind being bald. I really don't mind it. And I think I led into it easily by starting to shave my head when I was like 12, 13 and wrestling. So I'm accustomed to it. The second thing is, I would get so much shit from people forever

Starting point is 01:07:24 if I had some weave. I don't know if you've ever seen hellboy but there's that one guy who has hair implants and it just looks like kendall uh i would get so much more shit yeah it's too late than i currently do i would be disinclined and then you know third and i think i was saying this earlier and i cut myself off. It's like, why do guys care? I think 99 times out of a hundred, it's because they want to have, they want to be more attractive to women or get laid more often by having hair, like period, full stop. I don't care. I don't care about that. Right. Like I'm, I'm very, very happy with my girlfriend. We're planning on having a family together. And like, if, if I couldn't be with someone because I didn't have hair, I don't want to be with them in the first place. Like that's your,

Starting point is 01:08:17 that's, that's a, that's a very charitable, easy layup yellow or red flag for any guy. No, by the way, also that's you did the right thing. Like the wrong thing is leaving like the sides on and just kind of going with the bald top, like the power donut. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm not, look, there are a few people who can pull that off. Like if you're a, what's his name? Commander Picard or whatever, Star Trek. If you're somebody that badass, you can pull off the power donut. If you're a hedge fund manager who just gives zero fucks and is a master of the universe and you're just like, I can move global markets and decimate currencies with one twitch of my pinky finger,

Starting point is 01:09:02 great. Then keep the power donut. I do not have the confidence or the wherewithal or the skillset or the power to make that work for me. So, well, it looks great. It's nice and shiny right now. The light's hitting in the right direction. It's beautiful. It has a healthy sheen to it, like a dog coat. All right, moving on to the next question.

Starting point is 01:09:22 Your favorite episode and why? And I will say that with the caveat that we, we, you know, you can mention the one that you talked about that was really dear to you that you did a few episodes back, but I think outside of that particular episode about the, the, around the abuse. Yeah. I mean, favorite episode is, is I get this question quite a bit. It's, it's hard to give a favorite episode because almost all of my episodes have some personal driver behind them. So the reason I do episodes varies so widely that there is objectively no one best. Even subjectively, there is no one best. It has everything to do with what my goals or challenges might be at any given point in time. I think... Let me ask you two questions. Hold on. Let me ask you two questions. I think we can hone this in a little bit. Favorite fanboy episode, meaning, oh my God, I can't believe I

Starting point is 01:10:16 had this person on my podcast. And then I'd also love to know... I know who it is. It's Hugh Jackman, isn't it? Am I right huge huge jackman is super high up uh that that was definitely a huge one uh arnold schwarzenegger was the first like gigantic fanboy yeah episode jamie foxx another one i mean those three episodes are also killer like they weren't just fanboy encounters but they were really strong episodes. Yeah. Really, really strong episodes. So fanboy moments, there are a ton of them.

Starting point is 01:10:52 I mean, I've spoken with so many people, I never thought I would ever have any interaction with Jerry Seinfeld. I mean, it's a long list. It's a long, long list. But certainly Hugh Jackman is way up there.nold schwarzenegger way up there jamie fox and uh jerry and so many others those are a few how about someone that just really surprised you where you're like oh i i should have this person on then you had him on you're like god

Starting point is 01:11:19 damn that was a good episode there are so many give. Give me a couple though. It doesn't have to be one. Yeah, I love the fanboy episodes, but those are names that people automatically know. I mean, they're household names, right? BJ Miller, who's a hospice care physician. And I think the episode, it was titled something like BJ Miller, the man who's helped a thousand plus people to die, something like that.

Starting point is 01:11:41 That episode had a huge impact on me, still does. Then you have people like Mary Carr, who's an author and very well-known memoir writer and teacher, who's just incredible. That episode is pretty recent. Carr, K-A-R-R, she was incredible. Let's see here. Honestly, I i mean i have to mention again but just like there are certain episodes like jamie fox or hugh jackman where you're like holy shit i hope my equipment is working yeah exactly it's just so fucking good and you're like oh my god if this fails i will just have to throw myself out a window. When I interviewed Elon Musk, uh, my show, I was like, please do not fail hard drive. Like, you know, cause we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:12:30 Totally. Totally. It was crazy. Yeah. So there are the, there are those moments for sure. What was it like for you to, to interview Elon? I've never, we've never talked about it. I mean, he's, he's a really cool guy. He was super friendly and I've met him a couple of times at various parties and stuff. And he's always been really nice to me. I think he knew me from back in the dig days when I created dig or, you know, he was, it wasn't, it was clear to me that it wasn't just some, like he had heard of some stuff I had created, which was nice. Cause that gives you a little bit of an end in a way to have a conversation. I loved it. I thought it was a lot of fun. I mean, I tried to ask him some questions that were just a little bit like not the ones a standard reporter would ask.

Starting point is 01:13:08 And so he had a good time with it. We talked about, we just talked about like, I always like to go really, really back to his childhood and like some of the entrepreneurial kind of moments he had growing up and some of the things he was a fan of and some of the comic books where he was into, like, nobody talks about that, you know, but he talks about his favorite comic books on my, my show, like stuff like that. So it was, yeah, it was a, it was a really, we talked about SpaceX and some of the stuff that he was doing with, with Hyperloop before it was announced.

Starting point is 01:13:34 Yeah, it was, it was awesome. Nice. Obviously he's quite the icon these days. This was a couple of years ago. So yeah, Tony Stark. Totally in the flesh. All right. Moving on to the next episode or next episode, the next question.

Starting point is 01:13:50 What do you think about all the recent government UFO footage? Is it real? Well, do you believe in UFOs? I don't know if it's real in the sense. Do I know? I don't know if the footage is real i've read way too much about you know well-documented programs like mk ultra with the cia and so i mean that like it's it's very hard to know what is propaganda and what is not what is the mk ultra what is that? This is sort of the deliberate and non-consensual administration of LSD by the CIA viewers or those considered to be remote viewers or remote perception and all this craziness.

Starting point is 01:14:51 So are UFOs real? Fuck, I don't know. I will say this. That's a big question above my pay grade. I will say this though, that there are a few places on long Island that are fairly well known by locals for having what some people consider UFO sightings. And when I was a kid on long Island, I and a whole car full of people, including like a babysitter and some other people also some weird object weird object fly across the sky, hover for a period of time, kind of bounce around, and then shoot off at speeds that made no sense.

Starting point is 01:15:34 So was that an illusion? Was it caused by some type of weather pattern, right? Like the lights of Marfa in Texas are supposedly created by some type of phenomenon that can be explained meteorologically. Was it that? Was it test flights with some type of aircraft being performed by the government which are unknown unannounced was it some type of aircraft from elsewhere i mean either way it is an unidentified flying object so do i believe in ufos yeah i believe in ufos are they aliens fuck if i know, I have no idea, but I mean, I remain open to the possibility. Yeah. All right. Let's move on to the next question. This one is a little bit, this one's a little bit harder than last. Uh, have you ever tried Viagra? If so thoughts,

Starting point is 01:16:39 I told you, I told you these were going to get intimate. Yeah, this is great. Yeah, this is great. So I have tried Viagra. I've tried everything. I mean, I've tried just about everything, minus heroin. And I actually had a really scary response to a small amount of Viagra, which was I got a shooting pain, like a axe pick in the brain pain from taking it which has made me contraindicated from taking um i don't know if viagra is a what is it a

Starting point is 01:17:16 phosphodiesterase inhibitor of some type but i have to be very careful with that stuff because in a small percentage of the population you you can have these massively powerful adverse events. Does that apply to all of like Cialis and stuff like that? Or is that just Viagra? I don't, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not sure.

Starting point is 01:17:37 Did it, did it work? The matter is, Oh, Oh, the Viagra. I mean, well,

Starting point is 01:17:41 yeah, I mean, not to get too graphic here, but yeah, it was fucking fantastic. I mean, that stuff, why the hell do you think it's so popular? Like, yeah, I mean, not to get too graphic here, but yeah, it was fucking fantastic. I mean, that stuff, why the hell do you think it's so popular? Like, it works as advertised. It's like, why do athletes use anabolic steroids?

Starting point is 01:17:53 Because they fucking work, right? I mean, like, there are certain drugs that really deliver as advertised. You just have to be aware of the possible side effects. I had a really weird experience with that stuff. That stuff is strange. Well, hold on. You can't let that hang. So what?

Starting point is 01:18:08 Well, I just feel like it's, well, we're a couple glasses of wine in trying to ride that fine line. So I'm going to say this in a very PC way, the best I can at this moment in time. Don't say it in a PC way. That's so lame. Well, here's the deal. Okay. So when you take it, you know, 30 minutes later it kicks in and you

Starting point is 01:18:26 can tell by like, you feel like a flushness in your face. Did you get that? That kind of like, like tingly flushes in your face. I got a flush miss in my, in my swans. So what happens next is things elevate. And when they do so it's like at the, um, it's like blowing a balloon to like 12 when it should be at a 10. And you reach down. No, no, no. When you reach down, it feels like it's another dude's thing. Cause it's like, it's way bigger than you, you're used to, right?

Starting point is 01:18:57 Cause you're at a 12, the knob has gone to a 12. So it's, it's just confusing. That's all it, but it does, it does it does make it does make you like a you're a dragon slayer for a couple hours at least like it's there's no you'd agree with that though right yeah i would it is i think dragon slaying on viagra is definitely gonna have to make it into the headline of this episode it It is, it is a weird thing. It is definitely a weird thing. I bought mine in Mexico of all places. This is like, yeah, you gotta be careful. Yeah. You gotta be careful. Who knows? Like if it was like an amplified dose or something, but yeah,

Starting point is 01:19:34 uh, kind of insane. Could have been Clorox. Exactly. All right. Uh, any other four hour books in the future? None planned. Are you done? You're done with the four-hour. Yeah, I think so. That's fair. That's fair. Rest in peace, four-hour. The four-hour thing was fun for me. Remember, I used to send you texts of like the four... There was a four-hour laundry cleaner in SF, and I would always... I do. I'd like walk by laundry cleaner in a SF. And I would always do like walk by and take photos of it and send it

Starting point is 01:20:09 to Tim. So I was on Van Ness or something. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. No, I've thank you for your service for our, I think, uh, I am, I'm done. It's retired as a Jersey framed on the wall. Nice. What a beautiful chapter. And it was a chapter. That was a good chapter. Good couple chapters was, um, all right. So what will you be doing at age 50 and 60? That was the actual question. Yeah. So just retirement. I don't know why they picked those years, but like, let's just say later in life, like give me, what does Tim Tim look like 20, 30 years from now? Yeah. You know, retirement, I don't think that's a thing. I just, I sort of enjoy getting

Starting point is 01:20:54 amongst it too much. I can't imagine like, just like sitting around doing Sudoku all day, watching Wheel of Fortune or something. Like, I just, I don't think that's going to be me. So 50 or 60. I mean, let's see. I'm this means it's not that far off 50. You know, I'm 43. How old are you right now? 43. Fucking a man. 44 this month. Seven years away. I know it's crazy. One turning of the locusts and we're 50. So 50, I mean, let's just say I have like, you know, six or seven year old kid at that point, I will probably be increasingly cantankerous and salty. I will be increasingly uninterested in social consensus or social media or... I mean, I feel like that's you today.

Starting point is 01:21:48 Popularity. I don't think that's... Yeah. I think it'll just be like Tim Plus. It'll be like Tim Tim Plus. Love it. I think there's a good chance that I will be spending more months of the year with the family in and surrounded by nature, less time in urban environments.

Starting point is 01:22:07 From an athletic perspective, I would anticipate to still be doing things like acroyoga, skiing, probably weight training at least once per week. I think that'll become more and more and more important. Still, I will be paying deep attention to and supporting psychedelic research and other aspects of that type of medicine work i got it's hard for me to envision like a huge change aside from focus on family which i think will be a gigantic shift but I would hope not to have to contend with any major medical emergencies or

Starting point is 01:22:47 crises in my family. But TBD, I mean, 60, if I'm 60, you know, that could be at the point where my parents want her both past, which will be a huge transition. I don't know how that'll affect me. It's impossible to predict for me. I just, I just don't know. I don't even have a point of reference. Yeah. You know, let's move on to the next question. We've got a couple more left and then we can wrap things up. Uh, and I, I do have some extra bonus ones if you want to keep going, but, um, bonus bonus, do it. I'm all, let's do the last Sokka or a quick Sokka one. What's your quote unquote, holy shit today sucked drink or drug of choice? That's from Sokka.

Starting point is 01:23:35 That's a great one. Well, it depends on at what time of the day I determined that the day has already sucked. 6 p.m. So for instance, if it's, well, hold on. So if I wake up and I'm just getting fucking haymakers for like the first two hours of the day and I'm like, wow, like today is already sucking donkey dick. This is terrible.

Starting point is 01:24:01 Then I might just fucking call it and have a day of mushrooms and walk through the forest and just be like, I'm done tap. I am complete. Uh, so that that's one, I would say otherwise the one that is ill-advised for me is drinking copious amounts of caffeine, right? Having just like four or five, six cups of coffee, which on the way up feel so good and you get so manic and you forget all your worries. And then the coin flips and you just feel like an anxious mess on the way down. So that's a mixed blessing for sure. I would say gin and soda, like a Hendrix and soda or a Casa Dragones, like a tequila and soda at like dusk. So these days, like a 5.30 kind of happy hour, like, you know what?

Starting point is 01:25:01 I'm not going to try to like squeak this out and grind for another hour, hour and a half. Nope. Going to call this one at 4.30, 5. If it's really brutal, if you're just like, why? If I'm still in the game, I'm just limping along with the ball, getting crushed by 500-pound linebackers. What am I doing this for? This is pointless. Then I'd say gin and soda or tequila and soda. What was the gin that you gifted me? The botanist. I think you were giving those out one year for run the holidays. Was it botanist?

Starting point is 01:25:34 You were. Oh, it could, it could have been botanist. You were into one gin. I love it. Gin's the best. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:25:40 It's so much more, it's so much more interesting than vodka, right? Like it's the, the botanicals in there and it's a fantastic beverage. I love clean tequila. I love interesting gin. And there's something called Sotol, S-O-T-O-L,

Starting point is 01:25:58 which is found in Texas, which is also quite interesting. It's for people who need maybe a comparison. It might be somewhere between tequila and mezcal. Ooh, so a little bit more smoky then. Yeah. But not as hardcore. There's a company called, yeah, exactly. There's a brand I think called Desert Door,

Starting point is 01:26:23 which makes them really nice so tall it's pretty hard to get i also find that quite interesting but if you drink enough of that to get plastered you are going to feel it for sure the next day yeah oh bad like hangover type stuff that's going on it's got that smoky it's got that smoky element right same with miscal yeah i mean i feel like a donkey's kicked me in the forehead. Like an ashtray mouth the next morning. You're just like, oh. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:26:51 Yeah, like, oh, who had a campfire in my mouth? Right. That one. So you mentioned Dragona's. I think it's important not to skip over that one. Fantastic tequila. Yeah. And also fantastically expensive tequila.

Starting point is 01:27:07 They actually make a less expensive version now. A couple them which oh they're nice okay yeah casa dragones the house of the dragon makes some really nice stuff and i was introduced to that pretty funny story so i i was first exposed to that am i making you seasick with this camera a little bit this camera keeps i think i'm like i'm going out of focus i know it's like zooming in and out i'm like if i drank that much like you just keep going boom right it's like the cinematographer like imitation of being drunk oh my god it's making me seasick just looking at my own image going in and out of focus. But in any case, Casa de Agones, I was first exposed to when I spent time with a friend of mine who's a former Navy SEAL. And he and a bunch of guys were doing weapons training and shooting range practice with all sorts, like AR platform, handgun, sidearm, you name it, like all sorts of stuff.

Starting point is 01:28:09 And their ritual was to then go back to the house, disassemble all the guns, and clean all the guns while they're all sipping Casa Dragones. Oh, my God. You mean disassemble all the way down to bare metal? Or what are you talking about? Just clean them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cleaning them, But in some cases,

Starting point is 01:28:25 you know, disassembling the handguns and so on. And they're doing this very safely, but we were just like sitting around with a bunch of hyper masculine dudes who are like real professionals. I don't know what I'm doing, but I cleaning guns, drinking,

Starting point is 01:28:41 sipping tequila, right? Like no mixes, no cocktails, just drinking, sipping tequila. And like mixes no cocktails just drinking sipping tequila and like it was amazing it was a great experience and a really great group of guys and i had that and i had always had the association with tequila that it gave you a nasty hangover and i drank so much of this tequila woke up the next day and i felt like a million bucks. I was like, how is that even possible? So did you read about it? Do you know what the deal is? It's been filtered 12 times.

Starting point is 01:29:10 The dragon is, well, there you go. It's like a super ultra filtered. It's like the cleanest of the clean. Like it's, that's why it's so expensive. It's fantastic. Yeah. So if you feel like getting a nice gift for somebody or for yourself, that's one option. All right. Two more questions. Does anything make you feel old or does anything make you feel young? What makes me feel old would be aching joints. So elbow that I've had elbow surgery on, the wrist that I've jacked up.

Starting point is 01:29:42 I injured my lower back recently in a stupid accident. Uh, joint pain. Yeah. It makes me feel old. Same dude. Sucks for sure. Like muscular pain I can deal with,

Starting point is 01:29:52 but like joint pain makes me feel old, makes me feel young riding bicycles and riding my girlfriend. Those two. Jesus. That's going to get, dude, this question is not going to make it in. Oh, it'll make it. It'll make it. Oh, it was great. Those two, those two things keep me young. All right. This is the, this is the last question. And it's, it's more serious when I wanted to end with this one. Because I do want you to take it seriously.

Starting point is 01:30:28 You know, we don't know how much time we have left. And I am curious, when you die, what do you ultimately want to be remembered for? For our chef? All right. four hour chef or the stupid, uh, meme videos that I text Kevin twice a week. Let me think about that. You know,

Starting point is 01:30:56 I don't think any of us are remembered for that long. I think that kind of over-focusing on legacy can warp and contort a lot of thinking about life and what you pursue. I think it can lead you to pursue things for prestige. And I think prestige, approval, guilt, shame are all really bad reasons for doing things oftentimes. And as we were talking earlier about parenting and what kind of father I want to be, I was talking about awareness and engagement being these prerequisites for other things. You can try the tactical stuff, but if you lack that base level, that foundation, the

Starting point is 01:31:51 rest of it doesn't really matter. I think that in the last 10 years, especially, five years, especially, last five months in particular, I've realized that without hope, the rest of it just doesn't really matter. So you can give someone the prescription, the how-to, you should do this, you should do that, but without some level of hope. And hope to me has a slightly different feeling to it than optimism. I think optimism can be a part of hope, but that hope is broader. Without some element of hope, a lot of that other stuff just doesn't matter and gets washed away. So I would like to be... I used to say when people would ask me, like, what would you want to be remembered for? Like, well, you're a gravestone. I was like, well, as a sort of creator of master

Starting point is 01:32:42 students who are better than himself, right? That was an answer that I had. And I think now it would be as a purveyor and provider of hope, like someone who's providing hope to people who feel hopeless and not in a misleading, not in a Pollyanna-ish, not in a naive way. Like I'm providing hope because I am a test subject, right? I'm a guinea pig. I am someone who's suffered from severe, extended, repeated bouts of depression who is on the front lines trying to encourage the testing and research of things like psilocybin and others that show incredible promise for these so-called intractable, untreatable psychiatric conditions, whether that's

Starting point is 01:33:30 depression or MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for complex treatment-resistant PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder, or opioid use disorder, anorexia, these things that have really found no home from which they can be treated effectively. That would be one example, one dimension to it. So I would say as a seeker, as a fellow needer, and hopefully spreader of Well, that's what I would want. I got to tell you, I think that a lot of people would agree with this statement in that everything that you've done, I mean, when I first met you was at your book launch party for the four-hour work week, and then later the four-hour body, those have all been about hope. They've been about how can I improve myself, you know, and how can I live

Starting point is 01:34:26 and do things on my own time and by my own design and you'd live a healthier lifestyle. And then now taking it to the more philanthropic side of things and working on mental health, like this is the easy thing for you to accomplish. Cause like you've already done it. Like your career has been all about hope. So I think you inspire a lot of people. Um, and for that reason. So this, this is, that's great. It's, uh, thanks man. No, it's, it's something to look up to. Like, I know you and I talk about this and we have a slightly different take on, uh, philanthropy and that, you know, I've done bits and pieces of it, my take, and it could be the wrong one, but I'm in like the prime of my earning career. And I think that I want to like get a little bit more

Starting point is 01:35:12 resources so that I can do bigger impact things long-term, but like, you're definitely an inspiration for me on that front. Um, and certainly something that I want to eventually imitate and figure out how to do is have a bigger impact in that way. So thank you for all that you've done on that. And dude, it's been awesome that you'd even share the space with me for episode 500. So thank you for that as well. No, thanks Kev. Kev. Yeah. It's, uh, you know, I want to give my, uh, give some, some additional thanks to my girlfriend so that I don't have my last mention of her in the same answer at the bicycle, which is, you know, when I was considering what to do about sharing my experiences with abuse as a kid, I told her about the plans for the book, the possible book, which would be years off in the future, and the possibility of then doing a podcast maybe let's say a podcast coming out in a few months and a book coming out four or five years later that there there would be and there are many people who would die by natural causes take their own

Starting point is 01:36:39 lives via suicide or otherwise not ever have access to the book who would benefit from the podcast. And I think that there's compounding of wealth and resources, and you can make many compelling arguments for if and when to jump into the fray to try to address problems based on compound interest and so on. I would just offer to people who are thinking about this for themselves that there are certain problems that compound also. And there are certain problems, certain subsets of populations and so on, who are more easily reached, more easily addressed, more easily helped now than they will be in a year or two years because the problems compound at a faster rate than your capital. to offer, not to say that everybody should immediately jump into the fray and use as much as they can afford to affect change in the world. I don't think that's true for everyone. I think

Starting point is 01:37:50 that's absolutely not the case for everyone. But for me, at least with some of these mental health conditions and having the ability to set precedent, right, to create the first center in the world dedicated to psychedelic research, to create the first center in the world dedicated to psychedelic research, to create the first center in the US dedicated to psychedelic research and consciousness research, offered me a rare window and opportunity to tip the first domino in a way that I knew would then trigger and unlock all sorts of other developments, right? So I was able to put in, say, a million dollars with the expectation that it would generate 10 or a hundred million dollars in impact. So I do think that you got to pick your time. You got to pick your target.

Starting point is 01:38:38 You really want to be surgical with this stuff and very thoughtful. And there are sometimes, just like with startups, right? There are sometimes when you're like, Oh damn, there's that one window that door opens a crack and that's your shot. Yeah. Like you have a real opportunity to make an impact. And for me, I just felt that way in the last few years. Yeah. Uh, but I'm excited to, I'm excited to see what you do too, man. Yeah. It makes, it makes a lot of sense if you think about it, because there was this little tipping point that happened where all of a sudden there was a window to create some research around psychedelic use, you know, that, cause if the government had totally locked this

Starting point is 01:39:18 thing down, like let's say we were in some country that was just clamped down on both the federal and state level, it would be probably like pissing away money at that point. Right. Cause they wouldn't, you wouldn't even be able to fund research, but you ha you found a window, the momentum was going in the right direction. And now, you know, we're seeing benefits from that in terms of it being legalized, like in Oregon and other places where this could be real therapies going in, into people in the next year or so, you know, which is really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's moved a lot faster than I ever could have hoped. And there's, there are going to be challenges.

Starting point is 01:39:50 They're going to be setbacks. They're going to be messes. They're going to be players in the arena with less than pure motives, which is to be expected. And that's all, that's all part of the game. So, yeah. Well, the, that's all, that's all part of the game. So, yeah. Well, the last thing I want to say is, um, and I'd be curious to know how you were able to do this in yourself is that one of the things that I, I want to push more forward, especially given that I have a couple daughters and I think that more men should be vulnerable people like able to talk about, like you've talked about suicide and

Starting point is 01:40:25 depression and child abuse and like all these really tough, sensitive topics. And, you know, I've certainly talked about couples therapy and the abuse my father gave my mom and things like that. Like we need to encourage more of that. And I just want to say, thanks to you, you've helped me be more open with myself and my audience about those things. And I think it's that like starting that conversation. Oh, if Tim can talk about it, I can too. It's such an important thing that we all need to do. Oh, thanks Kevin. Thanks man. It's the truth though, dude. Like it really is like, it's, it helps me when I, you talk about this stuff, I can talk about it. Like,

Starting point is 01:40:59 and I know that's the same with so many other people. So, so anyway, thanks brother. Cheers to you, brother. Uh, congratulations on 500 wishing you to 500 more or a thousand more. We'll see. When do you hang it up by the way? How many do you think you got left in you? I have no plans to hang it up at this point. You know, this, this gives me, this is, uh, this is joyful for me. It's fun for me. And if it stops being fun, it's either time to hang it up or more likely it's time for me to change something.

Starting point is 01:41:32 And I've just succumbed to some temptation that I need to fix, right? Like for this episode, let's take this episode as an example, number 500, right? I could have done like lessons learned over 500 episodes and done like a monologue, right? Instead you get Viagra questions.

Starting point is 01:41:49 Which is more fun. Right. It's more fun for me. It's more fun. It gives me more energy. It gives me more pleasure. Like this is a good time. And like you said, you don't know how much time you have left.

Starting point is 01:42:02 Nobody does. And so it's like, if you're not having fun, at least in my life, like chances are it's my fault. Yeah. Fucking fix it. And if the choices you're making, your default choices or the way things are set up aren't working, change it, experiment, try something else. So for me, the that you know i used to do six episodes a month with the podcast i cut back to four on average and i used to handle say sponsorships and this that and the other thing a certain way and then i changed it because it was starting to feel like an obligation and i was starting to procrastinate and not look forward to it. So, you know, this is, I think, a game of iteration and what might give me joy today might not give me joy tomorrow and things change. They evolve

Starting point is 01:42:54 over time, but I love doing the podcast. So it wouldn't surprise me if I do another 500, another thousand, and then take a look and reassess. Yeah. I think that really, it doesn't really matter where you are in life because I remember, you know, when I was not like being a VC and doing these things, I left Olive Garden, which had good tips and unlimited breadsticks to work at Computer City for less pay. But you know what? I was a hell of a lot happier when I was working at Computer City than I was at Olive Garden. So it's like, you just got to do it. You got to change it up if it's not working. Switch it up. You got to switch it up, man.

Starting point is 01:43:30 So good to see you. Yeah. I miss you, brother. I miss you too. I'd love to see you in person sometime soon. So TB. Let's get these shots in the arms and make it happen. Seriously.

Starting point is 01:43:40 Exactly right. And to everybody listening, I love you guys. I really so deeply appreciate everybody listening. It gives me the opportunity to play. It gives me the opportunity to push, to challenge myself also, to try to do things I don't think I can do with respect to this podcast, to wrangle people I think can't be wrangled. And also just as important to shoot the shit and talk about Viagra, people like Kevin. So, so I really,

Starting point is 01:44:15 really appreciate everyone who tunes into this podcast. And I know this has been a loosey goosey banter filled episode, but this is what I wanted to do. And ultimately the only way I'll keep but this is what I wanted to do. And ultimately, the only way I'll keep doing this is if I have some fun along the way. Thanks for having me, Tim. That was awesome. Yeah, brother. I'll see you soon. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off.

Starting point is 01:44:38 Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun for the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets

Starting point is 01:45:03 and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to 4hourworkweek.com. That's 4hourworkweek.com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time what I would take if I could only take one supplement. The answer is invariably athletic greens. I view it as all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it, in fact,

Starting point is 01:45:51 in the 4-Hour Body. This is more than 10 years ago, and I did not get paid to do so. With approximately 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food sourced ingredients, you'd be very hard-pressed to find a more nutrient-dense and comprehensive formula on the market. It has multivitamins, multimineral greens complex, probiotics and prebiotics for gut health, an immunity formula, digestive enzymes, adaptogens, and much more. I usually take it once or twice a day just to make sure I've covered my bases if I miss anything I'm not aware of. Of course, I focus on nutrient-dense meals to begin with, that's the basis, but Athletic Greens makes it easy to get a lot of nutrition when whole foods aren't readily available. From

Starting point is 01:46:30 travel packets, I always have them in my bag when I'm zipping around. Right now, Athletic Greens is giving my audience a special offer on top of their all-in-one formula, which is a free vitamin D supplement and five free travel packs with your first subscription purchase. Many of us are deficient in vitamin D. I found that true for myself, which is usually produced in our bodies from sun exposure. So adding a vitamin D supplement to your daily routine is a great option for additional immune support. Support your immunity, gut health, and energy by visiting athleticgreens.com slash Tim. You'll receive up to a year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your subscription. Again, that's athleticgreens.com slash Tim.

Starting point is 01:47:14 This episode is brought to you by Literati Kids, a try-before-you-buy subscription book club. Great children's books open up new worlds for discovery. I remember as a kid, a handful of books that literally changed my life and still have informed my life. With Literati Kids, your child can explore uncharted places every month with spellbinding stories handpicked by experts. Each month, Literati delivers five vibrantly illustrated children's books, bringing the immersive magic of reading right into your home.

Starting point is 01:47:43 Literati's age-based book clubs ensure appropriate reads for your budding bookworms, whether they're snuggling with you for story time or letting their imagination roam free. So you can choose what is most appropriate for your child. Each book bundle is thoughtfully tailored by education experts with five stories meant to spark new interests and nurture a healthy curiosity. So no more sorting through hundreds of titles trying to guess what your child would cherish. Literati sends you the best in children's literature. Then you can choose to purchase the ones they love and you send the rest back for free. From

Starting point is 01:48:15 art and escapades to tales of compassion and friendship, each Literati box follows a new and enriching theme. And with personalized extras like stickers, surprises, and special guest artwork, every box is a fun and fresh adventure. So head to literati.com slash Tim, that's L-I-T-E-R-A-T-I dot com slash Tim for 25% off your first two orders. Select your child's book club and start them on a literary journey like no other. Literati.com slash Tim is the only place where you can get 25% off your first two orders of this one-of-a-kind book subscription, the most joyful way to foster a lifelong love of learning in your children.

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The Tim Ferriss Show - #500: KevKev TimTim TalkTalk on Dragon Slaying, Lessons Learned, Viagra, and Assorted Nonsense

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The Tim Ferriss Show - #500: KevKev TimTim TalkTalk on Dragon Slaying, Lessons Learned, Viagra, and Assorted Nonsense

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.