The Tim Ferriss Show - #551: TOMS Founder Blake Mycoskie — Fear{less} with Tim Ferriss

Starting point is 00:00:00 This episode is brought to you by Five Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. It's become one of the most popular email newsletters in the world with millions of subscribers, and it's super, super simple. It does not clog up your inbox. Every Friday, I send out five bullet points, super short, of the coolest things I've found that week, which sometimes includes apps, books, documentaries, supplements, gadgets, new self-experiments, hacks, tricks, and all sorts of weird stuff that I dig up from around the world. You guys, podcast listeners and book readers,

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Starting point is 00:02:26 parentheses because the objective is to teach you to fear less, not to be fearless. Fearless features in-depth, long-form conversations with top performers, focusing on how they've overcome fears and made hard decisions, embracing discomfort and thinking big along the way. It was produced by Wild West Productions, and I worked with them to make both the video and audio available to you for free, my dear listeners. So thank you, Wild West. You can find the video of this episode, which is gorgeous. I think they did an incredible job on youtube.com slash Tim Ferriss. Remember, two R's, two S's, youtube.com slash Tim Ferriss. And eventually, you'll be able to see all of the episodes for free at youtube.com slash tim ferris and eventually you'll be able to see all of the episodes for free at youtube.com slash tim ferris so you can swing over there and see what is currently up before we get started just a little bit more on wild west spearheaded by actor producer and past

Starting point is 00:03:15 podcast guest vince vaughn wild west has produced a string of hit movies including the internship couples retreat for christmases and the breakup. In 2020, Wild West produced the comedy The Opening Act, starring Jimmy O. Yang and Cedric the Entertainer. In addition to Fearless, their television credits include Undeniable with Joe Buck, ESPN's 30 for 30 episode about the 85 bears, and the Netflix animated show F is for Family. Wild West has also produced the documentaries Give Us This Day, Game Changers, subtitle Dreams of BlizzCon, and Wild West Comedy Show. And now, without further ado, please enjoy this wide-ranging conversation from Fearless. I'm Tim Ferriss, author, entrepreneur, angel investor, and now TV host. I've spent my entire

Starting point is 00:04:03 adult life asking questions, then scouring the globe to find the answers. On this show, I'll share the secrets of pioneers who have faced their own fears. We'll dig into the hard times, big mistakes, tough decisions, and how they got through it all. The goal isn't to be fearless. The goal is to learn to fear less. Welcome to Fearless. I'm your host, Tim Ferriss. And on this stage, we'll be deconstructing world-class performers of all different types to uncover the specific tactics and strategies they've used to overcome doubt, tackle their hardest decisions, and ultimately succeed on their own terms.

Starting point is 00:04:40 By show of hands, how many of you guys own a few pairs of shoes? That is everybody in the room. How many of you own around 10 pairs of shoes? All right, more than half. How many of you do not own a single pair of shoes? All right, that's a big fat zero. My guest tonight has built a company that's given away more than 60 million pairs of shoes to those who need them most. During a trip to South America, he recognized a unique opportunity

Starting point is 00:05:09 to blend business and philanthropy. Since its founding, Tom's has given away millions of shoes, helped to store eyesight, and provided safe drinking water to those in need across the globe. So ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage the founder of Tom's Blake my costume It's been a few years, yeah so Blake and I met quite a while back, and we'll get to sort of the origin stories of all that. But I thought what we could do is take a look at one of the ways that I was not necessarily introduced to, but reacquainted with Tom. So we have a video that we're going to start with. Okay, great. It's incredible to think that five years ago, what has now become a global event started

Starting point is 00:06:17 with a simple idea on a college campus. I'm going without shoes so I can know what millions of children go through every day. You don't really realize what a luxury we have to have shoes on our feet all day. Ah, it's actually kind of painful. One day without shoes! feet all day but ah it's actually kind of painful Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, So why would I start with this video? Well, there are a few reasons. The first is that clearly I think it puts in perspective as one event the good that Blake and his company and all the people involved have done. Number two, this is a master of positioning and PR and events and a lot in

Starting point is 00:07:47 between. And we're going to come back to that and take a look at how it all came to be. But the apple doesn't seem to fall too far from the tree. Butterbusters. Let's talk about Butterbusters. This is going somewhere. Bear with me. What is Butterbusters? So Butterbusters is a cookbook that my mom wrote on a word processor in like 1993, literally in our kitchen, that went on to sell millions and millions of copies. And it was this crazy experience for me being 15 years old, seeing my who was uh you know they you know married to my dad he was the doctor he was the breadwinner all this the next thing you know she's getting you know royalty checks for millions of dollars in the mail because she wrote a book mainly because she wanted to help people lose weight and uh keep their cholesterol down because she had high cholesterol she had high cholesterol and so she basically the story was she went to the doctor

Starting point is 00:08:42 and came home and had high cholesterol. And the doctor suggested her cutting some of the fat out of her diet. And so she started doing that and she started losing weight as well. And she wanted to share what she learned with others. And I think I learned two things from that. One, at that very impressionable age, I saw like my mom had an idea that could help people. And she acted on it, even though she had never written a thing in her life, you know, didn't graduate from college, like, you know, just did it, and she didn't think about it, she just acted.

Starting point is 00:09:14 And the second thing was, is that like, you can start something from nothing, and a fortune can be made out of literally your kitchen and a typewriter, so. And did she go to a bunch of New York publishers and they had an auction and one of them bought the book? Yeah, I mean, you'll appreciate this with your story. You know, she felt so connected to helping people and really reaching people directly that she didn't even go down the publishing route. She self-published it.

Starting point is 00:09:45 And actually, the first time that she published it, the publisher was kind of a crook. And her, my dad lost like $50,000, which was a ton of money to our family back then. And so she got a loan from the bank to publish it again the second time. And she started selling them literally out of our garage and her big break was she landed the Sam's Club, part of Walmart. And next thing you know she was selling hundreds of thousands of copies and we had to get a little warehouse next to our house and we were self, and which turned out to be a great business thing because she sold over a million copies before she had a publisher. So I mean... That's a lot of, that's a lot of envelopes.

Starting point is 00:10:25 Yeah. So, you know, I, I think it's, I had no idea that's where we were going to start this conversation, but I think it's actually a wonderful place to start because it's so many people after you have had some success as an entrepreneur asked you, you know, where did it come from? You know, where did the drive come from? And for me, you know, the drive came more from my athletic background and all the lessons I learned trying to be a professional tennis player. But the understanding of creating something from nothing and doing it to help people clearly came from me seeing this experience at age 15 to 18, you know, with my mom. Let's talk about SMU.

Starting point is 00:11:06 Okay. I was only there for 18 months. So, right. So we won't spend too much time on it, but you chose philosophy. Is that right? Yeah. Why philosophy? Well, I started because I originally majored in archaeology because my goal is to become

Starting point is 00:11:24 Indiana Jones. That was my career path. No, I mean, it's like I was never really that into school. I was a tennis player. I was a thing. But I thought, okay, if I don't become a professional tennis player, what would I want to do with my life? And I was like, I think Indiana Jones is the best job.

Starting point is 00:11:43 So what did he study? He studied archaeology but no one told me and i so i said i set up all archaeology classes freshman year and i'm in these classes and they're more like chemistry and we're studying like the compounds of rocks and this i mean it's like boring stuff in the world so i was like no whips yeah no whips. No talk about tribes and cannibals and all the stuff I was excited about getting into or learning how to stay away from. So I dropped out of the archaeology classes because it was like watching paint dry. And I thought, okay, so what else could I be interested in? But part of my fascination, I think, with Indiana Jones and this idea of traveling the world and discovering, you know, people and ancient ruins and all this stuff also came with this idea of understanding like world religions and how we

Starting point is 00:12:35 got, you know, why some people think this way and other people think that way. And so then that led to, okay, philosophy could be a great place to really dig into from an academic standpoint and learn why people think different things, how we've evolved as human beings. And so that was, and I found once I got in the philosophy classes, I actually really loved them because they were pretty quickly into stuff that I felt like was relatable to my experience as a human. And so I really enjoyed philosophy. To this day, when I have time for free reading, I read a lot of philosophy. Any favorite philosophers or books on philosophy? Descartes, I like a lot. It's one of my favorites. Plato, Aristotle. I mean, kind of the classics. I mean, they've been classics for hundreds of years for a reason, right? And so I feel like you can find, you know, you can read some Aristotle,

Starting point is 00:13:28 and it's literally like as relevant as another book you might read to improve some part of your life today. For sure. Yeah, I've been infatuated with and obsessed with the Stoic philosophers. That was 2,000 plus years ago in some cases with Marcus Aurelius. Marcus Aurelius. I mean, Meditations, that book is like, I mean, if you really allow yourself to slowly read and allow those words and allow those phrases to be imprinted in your mind, that book has more, you can read only that book and have all the wisdom you need probably to live a virtuous, a successful, a adventurous life. I mean, that's one of my favorite books of all time.

Starting point is 00:14:10 So Meditations, just to put it in perspective for folks. So Meditations was written by Marcus Aurelius at the time, the emperor of Rome. So he's the most powerful man in the world. And they are effectively entries in a war journal. So they were never intended to be published. So it's his notes to himself, which makes it very interesting. And actually on that point, do you have a journaling habit? I do. When did you start that? When I was about 15. And why did you start doing that? Kind of goes back to tennis. I wanted to chart my progress. Like that's how, that's how focused I was. I wanted to understand if I was really getting better. And I had read when I was young about other successful athletes that part

Starting point is 00:14:50 of what they did was they journaled and they wrote positive affirmations, you know, kind of pregame, but journaling it, it was more imprinted in their mind. And I started, and it's fun to go back and read some of those journals, uh, when I was 15, like how serious I was as a 15-year-old. It's also a little scary. But yeah, I started then, and then very quickly, it became a form of kind of therapy for me, you know, as an early entrepreneur when, you know, things were really tough, and you didn't, if you're going to make payroll, and you didn't have anyone, you didn't want to tell anyone because you always had to show this air of confidence and everything's going to be great. So then at night, I could be scribbling about how concerned I was and kind of confessing a lot of things that were bothering me or I was worried about. And journaling has been probably the most constant

Starting point is 00:15:41 habit in my life. I mean, I do it every single morning, sometimes twice a day. But it's interesting. One of the things I always say to people about journaling is, I think it's one of the most powerful habits you can create because a lot of the journaling too is goal setting and really having the goals and then writing about how you're trying to achieve them and then going back and seeing which ones you're achieving and which ones you're not and kind of understanding that. But the other thing is you can learn so much about the things that end up working and not working.

Starting point is 00:16:11 You can kind of go back and see, you know, what led to the success or the failure of that idea through kind of the journal path. And you can also see that things that you thought were so important end up not being at all, especially with girlfriends and things like that in the early days. I mean, so it's really interesting. I think you can learn a lot from journaling. And it's something that I tell, you know, people all the time. Like, if there's one thing that can kind of help get your life

Starting point is 00:16:40 on a more positive path, journaling is it. So this is going to be a bit of a left turn from this. From journaling. Easy laundry. Yes. Tell me all about it. So easy laundry. Well, easy laundry, I guess, was my first real business. I'm playing tennis, you know, like chasing my dreams at SMU.

Starting point is 00:17:00 I partially tear my Achilles tendon. So that injury is six to eight months leg cast like and already I was the last guy on the team so eight months of no playing and new freshmen that are more talented coming in like I started to realize like maybe my life path you know path is not to be a professional tennis player it wasn't until a couple weeks later when my roommate and I were discussing my huge pile of laundry that was growing in our room because I couldn't do it because I was on crutches. And so the laundry facility is down in the basement and I'm on crutches. And so it was kind of piling up and this is back in hard to believe when we looked

Starting point is 00:17:41 in the yellow pages for stuff, right? Oh remember that some people listening are here today might not remember the internet yeah of yesteryear yeah yeah so so i looked in the yellow pages um for someone to pick up my laundry and there was lowest google ever by the way yeah and uh and so it's um there's there's nothing that does that and my laundry's piling up, so it's a real problem. And I think this is where a lot of entrepreneur ideas are born out of necessity, out of some of the service that you want that's not offered, right? And so I went to school at SMU. It was a private school in Dallas.

Starting point is 00:18:17 And there were a lot of kids who had plenty of disposable income and didn't like doing their laundry, too. So I thought, what if we had this pick-up-and-delivery laundry service? We called it Easy Laundry. And the idea is that we would basically pick up the laundry, take it to a facility, get a bulk rate with them, and then deliver it back the next day or two days later. Was it true that you guys would do fake deliveries to dorms to try to create the illusion of having a successful business to drum up demand?

Starting point is 00:18:46 This is true. Okay, so can you describe how that worked? So no one wanted to kind of be first and be like, oh, I'm too lazy to do my own laundry. I'm going to have someone else do it. Or I'm going to, you know, I mean, for whatever reason, the psychological kind of herd mentality in college is very strong. And so we kind of somehow, I don't know how we realized this, but we did. We thought, okay, if we start delivering, even though we don't need to deliver, all day long and all people see is our truck driving around campus and me or our employees going into dorm dorms out of dorms they're going to think everyone's doing this and they're missing out you know and and that and that also led to more

Starting point is 00:19:30 customers because like man i see your truck everywhere but yeah business is great and business did become great because they thought that that man if everyone else is doing this service then i should be doing it too so that worked pretty well and by the way this is not uncommon at all no i mean so case in point benjamin franklin so most people think of him for you know the kite with the key and so on whatever it might be diplomat maybe who knows but he was very famous as a printer and in the beginning days to try to drum up business he would go up and down the street with a wheelbarrow full of all sorts of different printing equipment back and forth to show how busy he was to try to get people

Starting point is 00:20:11 to come in and to drum up business. Turned out very well for you. I mean. Well, I think it's such an important point because the best ideas and the best companies that start always come from an entrepreneur who wants a service that he can't get, a product that doesn't exist. You know, it's a frustration, you know, and the solution is not a business, actually. It's like a crusade to get rid of that frustration and it really is and so I always caution people say you can study entrepreneurship and you can read books about great entrepreneurs but if you think you're gonna build a great company it's got to start with a dissatisfaction a problem and it you want to scratch first and then you build the business but don't

Starting point is 00:21:02 think about okay I want to build a business what am i going to build so what happened you 18 months that your tenure was up yeah well i think what happened was is is all of a sudden we had so much demand for this laundry service we started and we had customers and you know not just at smu but we we started to expand the university of texas tcu university oklah Oklahoma. And it was clear that there was all this demand. And I was like trying to do my homework at, you know, at night, running the business during the day. I think we had 30 employees at that point. I mean, it was just too much. But yeah, I dropped out. And there were so many days after I did, I was like, oh my God, I want to go back to college so bad, so easy, you know, because like all my friends are like,

Starting point is 00:21:44 you know, going to a few classes and drinking beer and goofing off, and I'm dealing with these 15 people's lost genes every week. And so it wasn't glamorous by any means. It's only glamorous in hindsight when you're like, yeah, it's a college dropout. Bill Gates is a dropout. Michael Dell is. I mean, it's kind of a nice badge to have now, but it definitely wasn't then. I have to ask because I honestly don't know the answer. How did reality TV come into all this? In 2001, my sister and I were on the TV show, The Amazing Race. I was 25 at the time. And this is

Starting point is 00:22:20 like the beginning of the reality TV craze that we're still frankly in. I mean, it's hard to believe all these years later and, and really this 15 minutes of fame. I mean, this is a real thing. So all of a sudden, like we're being invited to be on, you know, all these talk shows, late night shows, Jay Leno invited to, you know, Will Smith's birthday party. I mean, just this weird stuff, right? Because everyone was watching the show, and we were like one of the interesting characters on the show. And what I found was, as I was thinking about this thing, was that after the 15 minutes, and they moved on to the next season, there was still value, and the entertainment value in the public's interest in these people.

Starting point is 00:23:01 The networks had to move to the next one because it was time to, you know, it was time to promote the next show. So my idea was, is why not have a cable television network that would be 100% focused on reality? And now I knew we couldn't get the big ticket shows, but I knew we could get the stars after because there's nothing worse than losing your 15 minutes of fame. You'll do anything to keep it going it going right so I can get these people to come on shows for nothing just for their own you know be excited people to be interested in them still and then possibly you could even create shows that are like you know based off the characters and then we could well I knew we could do is we could buy clips of the shows the part that I didn't know anything about and

Starting point is 00:23:42 which is reason this business became a huge disaster, was there's only five or six companies in the country that controlled the distribution of the content. And so when we went to, you know, Comcast and Time Warner and DirecTV and all the different ones, and they're like, well, we have 500 channels right now. Is your channel, even if people love your channel, it's not going to change our business, but we're going to have to pay you for this content. So we're not that interested. And it was amazing to me. It was such a great business lesson that we had a product that the end customer wanted, and we could make amazing content that they actually really probably cared more about

Starting point is 00:24:19 than the other 420 channels. But because the person who was controlling what they saw didn't have a business reason to do it, we could never make it work. And so after, you know, a couple of hard years and running through millions of dollars and many, a lot of it is my own money. Uh, we had to go out of business, but I wasn't done even though I shut it down and paid back investors and fired 40 something people, which was horrible. I wanted the community to go. And so I kind of went into a first and only time in my life where I've had actually some real depression and got on like antidepressants and like things that I never

Starting point is 00:24:55 thought in my life I would experience. It wasn't because of so much that we had failed and that we had lost money and that we had to fire people and all that. It was because like, I still wanted to do this, but I couldn't. I couldn't solve a new way to do it. And so that was a tough four or five months afterwards, which I ultimately got through. But man, what a great lesson. Where were you at the time? You were in L.A.? I was in L.A.

Starting point is 00:25:20 And so I think the lesson as you're thinking about business ideas is definitely when I think about any new thing, even within Tom's now, is like no matter how good your idea is, you have to make sure that if your success falls in the hands of a few companies, that you don't even start to go forward unless you can make sure that at least you get one of those companies as a customer. Yeah. even start to go forward unless you can make sure that at least you get one of those companies as a customer yeah because if and that's why i think it's so great when we started tom's and shoe business or apparel or whatever like there's thousands of stores that could potentially buy your shoes so it doesn't have to get one of the big guys early on you know you could just get a couple and then build from there yeah you do risk it yeah a whole lot now i want to come back to if you don't mind just that period of depression so I've had extended bouts of depression, runs in my family, and I'm not going to blame it on that, but that's probably a component. What was it like in your darkest periods during those five months? I think the hardest thing was, is like not wanting to get out of bed. Like I'm a very energetic

Starting point is 00:26:23 person. I like usually jump out of bed with both feet on the floor well before the sun has come up my whole entrepreneurial life. And like not having a business to go to, having just kind of lost a lot of credibility with potential investors or, you know, because I was now, you know, failed entrepreneur, not just a successful entrepreneur and having run through a lot of my own financial resources. Like it was like, well, what am I going to do today? What, what did bring you out of it? I mean, what were the things that helped get you back on your feet? At the time I was reading a lot of Richard Branson stuff and I was, I read losing my virginity, which is a great book if you've never read it. That's one of the books that sort of kick-started me.

Starting point is 00:27:06 Yeah. And I loved his approach to taking, like, businesses that had been around forever and turning them on their head by basically just making them fun, sarcastic, sexy, etc. And so I looked at the driver's ed business, and this is something that's been around since my parents learned to drive, right? And they were brick-and-mortar buildings. They were usually connected to like a Sears or something. And they didn't try to accommodate their students. They just like pushed them through this like cattle. So I did two things. It's called driver's ed direct. And this is how I got the swagger back because I really got excited about this idea for a number of reasons. The first was, is we were going to have no classrooms.

Starting point is 00:27:48 So we were just going to eliminate that cost, and all the classwork would be online. Now, they would have to learn to drive in a car, but the online part, they would make it fun, and we'd do it online. And we would make sure they were paying attention, because they couldn't get to the next part of the class until they passed real-time quizzes. But the second thing I did, and this is what I think was the thing that really made it take off, is I recognized in Los Angeles, you have a lot of models and actors that need part-time work, and they need flexible schedules. Instead of these teenagers learning from old ladies, what if they're learning from Abercrombie and Fitch models?

Starting point is 00:28:21 That's going to keep a teenager girl's attention, right? I mean, if this girl has this hunky guy, you know, teaching her to drive, she's going to pay attention to him. And she's going to tell all her friends on MySpace how hot her driver's ed teacher is. And it's the same thing for the guys. And so we hired like the hottest models and actors who needed part-time work in between additions we were totally flexible with their hours and and it went fire crazy on myspace i mean every kid is like you i mean i think people signed up who'd already completed driver's ed just because they i mean it was like it was crazy so we talked about drivers at direct yeah then 2006, you went to one of my favorite places.

Starting point is 00:29:08 Place you know well. Argentina. Yeah. Why did you go to Argentina? I would take the month of January off every year, no matter what. No matter what was going on business-wise, I would take a month, I would go somewhere that was totally different, have a totally new cultural experience, get away from work, and then come back and then just immerse myself for 11 more months and have that month

Starting point is 00:29:29 to look forward to. And so I decided that for my month this year, in 2006, I would go to Argentina. One thing that I had already noticed and already had a big impression on me, and this started when we were on The Amazing Race, but even more so in Argentina, was just how much poverty there was only an hour outside the city. And, I mean, there were, you know, kids on the street not wearing shoes. It's shantytown. Shantytown. Slumdog, millionaire.

Starting point is 00:29:57 Exactly. I mean, it's exactly what it looks like. You know, people living in homes built of aluminum siding, no electricity, no water. I mean, it was, I couldn't believe it. And it was on the third week that I was there that I was in this cafe, this wine cafe, and I heard some women speaking in English. And they had been doing volunteer work.

Starting point is 00:30:19 They were working with this nonprofit in Argentina. And one of the things that they were doing was a shoe drive. And they explained to me that it was getting time, about time for school again the next semester. And there were many kids that were not able to go to school because they couldn't afford the uniform or the shoes. And shoes was part of the uniform. They had to wear a closed toe shoe. And so I agreed to go on this, on this, on this trip. And they picked me up a couple of days later and we got in a van and we had a big U-Haul full of shoes. And we went to this, this town. And at first, not having ever done anything like this, I was a little bit just kind of standing back and watching. And why, and, and these girls, they were just right on their hands

Starting point is 00:31:00 and knees and putting shoes on kids and giving them hugs. And it was just like this joyful thing. So I very quickly just jumped in and started to try to figure it out. And I remember that night I came home. I was staying at the polo camp still. And my polo teacher, Alejo, he asked me where I was that day because I wasn't playing polo. And I said, well, actually, I did this. And he's like, did that on your vacation? And he says to me, he says, you know, Blake um it's awesome that you guys gave him shoes and

Starting point is 00:31:29 but you're leaving like in five more days and these women are going back to their countries like who's going to give them their next pair and I was never prepared for this question and when I when he asked this question because he's like you know kids feet are going to grow fast or they're going to it's the only pair they wear out of them and if they need them for school you know, kids' feet are going to grow fast or they're going to, if it's the only pair, they'll wear out of them. And if they need them for school, you know, you've now given this pair, but who's going to give them the next pair? And at that point, I actually questioned whether we had done anything good at all. Like maybe what we did that day was just made ourselves feel great because we got this great, you know, kind of feeling and, oh, my gosh,

Starting point is 00:32:02 we did something nice for someone and they loved on us and we left feeling so full. But if we just set up a future, you know, disappointment, like we'd actually cause more harm than good if there wasn't a way to sustain these kids in shoes. And so talk about like some difficult moments in life. I remember going to bed that night, like having kind of that joy and excitement almost ripped out of me and thinking, gosh, this is like, like, this is, I don't know what the answer is, but there's got to be something, a way to make sure these kids get their next pair of shoes. And so the next morning, woke up, got the journal out, had my cup of coffee, sitting on the farm where the polo camp was.

Starting point is 00:32:42 And I was just writing, you know, in my journal. And I was saying, you know, maybe I could go and ask all my friends to donate, you know, 50 bucks a year. And that would buy four pairs of shoes. And that way, every three months, they get a new pair. Or we all have too many shoes in our closet, right? I mean, I'm sure we could all get rid of half of our shoes and we would not have any effect on our life whatsoever.

Starting point is 00:33:04 Maybe I could get those. And I started thinking about adult sizes are different than kids sizes and all these things. And, and, and I just, I just quickly got to the part of like, I don't think charity is the answer. Like, I don't think asking for donations or handouts is really going to sustain this. Now this might work for a year or two, but then it's going to be even a bigger problem if I don't get the donations or don't get the handouts. And then that's when my mom... Not only that, but you have to spend all your time fundraising and not focusing on building out the organization and so on. Well, yes, but at this point, I'm not even thinking about an organization. I'm thinking about 250 kids. I mean, that's my only... I mean, I'm only emotionally connected to 250 kids,

Starting point is 00:33:43 not in the world thinking about anyone else or the fact that there's kids in Cambodia that don't have shoes or kids that have frostbite in Mongolia or kids that have podoconiosis in Ethiopia. I mean, I know nothing about any of this at that point, but I do care about these 250 kids. I spent all day with them. I connected with them. I saw the joy that they got. And so in my journal that morning, I just turned in a pretty natural flow to business. Like every, my life for 10 years, I mean, I'm now 29 years old.

Starting point is 00:34:14 So I've been an entrepreneur for 10 years and I had used business to solve problems. Like that's the way I looked at entrepreneurship. Something I don't like, as we were talking about earlier, or something that I don't think is fair or right in the world. Let's see if we can change it with business. And so I was just writing in my journal. I said, what if we started an actual business that had a very simple model?

Starting point is 00:34:35 You sold shoes to people who wanted them, and you gave shoes to people who needed them. And we'd call it one for one. And it was just literally this much like, you know, just literally this much of one of hundreds of journals. But as I'm finishing that thought, the, the great Alejo, and this is, he's one of the greatest human beings you'll ever meet, most enthusiastic people I've ever met, comes up and he, and he says, it's time for breakfast before the polo match. You're running late. Let's go. Let's go. And I said, no, Leo, I think I have an answer to your question. I said, you know, instead of a charity, what if there was a business that sold

Starting point is 00:35:10 these shoes that you guys all wear here in Argentina and that we don't have in the United States? Yeah. I mean, you remember when you were there and every time we sell a pair, we give a pair. And over a month we got the the first it was 250 pairs were the initial prototypes because there were 250 kids in this village that we wanted to come give another pair to after we sold them and we stuffed them in three duffel bags we bought at the at the local you know kind of equivalent of footlocker and put them in you know checked them and got through customs somehow without getting them confiscated or you know and and and and and literally got him back to LA to my apartment in Venice how did you get your

Starting point is 00:35:49 first retailer your first key retail if that makes sense so I was going just cold calling these stores when I found out really quickly if you emailed or called a store and said you wanted to sell them shoes that they didn't know anything about the brand you never got a response you had to sell them shoes that they didn't know anything about the brand, you never got a response. You had to go there in person. So I was going in person, but very often I was going in person on the weekends because during the week I'm running the driver's ed company still. And so there aren't usually shoe buyers working on the weekends. It's just staff. But luckily I got on American Rag on a Saturday. I got, Courtney was working that day. And so she's like, yeah, I'll look at it, whatever. And she was a pretty curious, kind of cool, interesting person. Um, and I started

Starting point is 00:36:29 the shoes and, and even before I got to the story, she kind of thought this is kind of cool. Like this is, they're a very progressive fashion retailer. They like the new thing. And she's like, I'll buy, she's like, how much inventory do you have? And I was like, well, I got like 210 pairs left. I'd sold like 40 to friends and family, a couple online. You know, I had a little rinky dinky website that like my parents were reordering from from Texas and stuff. And and so but she's like, I need a way to tell the story. And so I showed her a picture and put it and she put it like by the display. And on a piece of cardboard, we wrote what we thought was our kind of mission.

Starting point is 00:37:05 And that was, with every pair you purchase, we will give a pair to a child in need, one for one. And we put that there. And she bought, I think, 85 pairs, which was, like, a third of my inventory, which I was super excited about. And the funny thing about that, and, I mean, that led to so many other things, but the main thing that led to was a woman from the L.A. Times saw these shoes and saw on the cardboard that we were going to give away a pair for every pair we sold. And this woman's name is Booth Moore. And at the time, she was the leading fashion writer at the L.A. Times and one of the most syndicated fashion writers in the world. I mean, everyone read her columns. And so she asked Courtney for my information and Courtney gave it to me and I did the

Starting point is 00:37:49 interview and was like super excited and and and and I didn't really have a idea of like what this would potentially do to what we were calling this as a time as a project we'd even call it a business it was the Tom's project you know because I had a business was the driver's ed business this was the project and so I didn't know what was going to happen with the project when this article came out. But two weeks after the interview, on the cover of the L.A. Times, there were two headlines. This is the calendar section. It was Da Vinci Code opens with 300 million in box office sales, which, you know, people in L.A. care about these things.

Starting point is 00:38:21 And the second thing is Tom's Shoes. Listen to this, we sold 2200 pairs on our website before noon that day. Now I only had 130 pairs in my apartment. So like this is the first of many supply chain problems. This is the good news, bad news. Yeah, this is the good news, bad news. So I mean, it was like, it was crazy.

Starting point is 00:38:46 Had this little article, wasn't it a big article? Had this response of people in Los Angeles to go on this little tiny website and somehow trust it and buy shoes. And the website said you would get your shoes in four to five days because we, you know, we're just shipping them out of my apartment one at a time. So now I have, you know, an order for $2,200. We've already charged people's credit card, by the way, because it just automatically goes through. I have no idea if Alejo and Juan can make these shoes. I mean, I don't even think they think they're ever going to see me again.

Starting point is 00:39:15 And so I literally land at the airport. I've got a little duffel bag, like toiletries, maybe two things of clothes, and the LA Times. And I take a taxi directly to Juan's house. They're both there, you know, drinking their mate like everyone does in Argentina. Just totally chilled out. Like, they had no problems in the world. And I come in, like, you know, bad out of hell.

Starting point is 00:39:35 And I'm like, muchos zapatos rapido. That's all the Spanish I knew. And that's all the Spanish I needed. And I showed them that article and they just couldn't believe it and so Juan calls his friend and their friend and next thing you know there's like all these different Argentines making these shoes as fast as they can in their garages which ultimately became a barn which became our first factory down there two weeks later um and let me just preface this with because it's important to understand uh get

Starting point is 00:40:03 a picture of what our apartment's like at the time. So we have this apartment in Venice and have three interns. So two weeks after that article comes out, I'm walking by, it was in the kitchen, walking by the kitchen area and the phone rings. So I pick it up and say, hello, this is Blake, Tom's Shoes. And there's this guy on the airline and you can tell he's a little bit agitated from the first minute. He says, yes, yes. I need to order a hundred pairs of women's toms. I need red. I need blue. I need natural. And I need them to go out tomorrow. Now I'm like, whoa. Like, I mean, we've had people maybe order two or three pairs, but a hundred pairs, one person, this is like not, this doesn't make sense because all

Starting point is 00:40:40 we're doing is selling online at this point. And, and I gosh first off like this is amazing hundred pairs like who is this like where are you calling from he says oh yes I'm the assistant women's shoe buyer at Nordstrom in Seattle at the corporate office now I don't know a lot about shoes but I know that Nordstrom is like the holy grail of shoes at this point like people been talking to me about Nordstrom Nordstrom and I know that like they don't call you at your apartment like it takes like you beg to get a meeting with these guys. Right. So I'm a little bit like, is this really, is this a prank? But I can tell this guy's like really focused on, on, on this order. And so as I'm thinking about this, I realize, you know, we have no shoes, right? We've

Starting point is 00:41:19 sold out. So I said to the guy, I'm like, okay, this is awesome. A hundred pairs. We can do that. It's probably going to be about two or three weeks. He's like, no, no, I need them tomorrow. Like my boss wants them yesterday. I need them tomorrow. And I'm like, well, we're sold out. And he goes, no, you can't be sold out. Just bump someone else's order. Like this is Nordstrom calling. Like no one tells us we're sold out. So I'm like, okay, sir. But like, I don't think you really understand the situation. Like I'm not, I can't bump someone else's order. Like, I literally don't have any shoes to send you. And at this point, the guy gets pissed off.

Starting point is 00:41:52 And he goes, this is what he says to me. He goes, and my phone's like, you know, about to start beeping. And he's like, he goes, listen, buddy, if you can't help me, put me in touch with the sales department. So, but the best part of this whole thing is while this conversation is going on, my three interns are sitting there eating breakfast tacos that they just got from Rose Cafe and one of the girls, Lena, is like laughing because she can overhear this conversation. And after that, I didn't really know what to say. And so she's like, Blake, give me the phone. Give me the phone. So I literally, it's about to start beeping. So I just toss it to her anyways.

Starting point is 00:42:33 And without even, this was my favorite moments in the history of Tom's, without even blinking or hesitating, she just goes, hi, this is Lena, head of sales. We're going to pull up a photo of early days. Some Toms, I think, in one of your original apartments. I have a funny story about these bags, too. Let's hear about the bags. These bags almost sunk the company.

Starting point is 00:43:05 Literally, we were almost out of business because of the bags. So most people don't know this, and I'm glad you showed this picture, because it's something that never comes up in interviews. I actually had two big ideas with Tom's. The first idea is that we were going to give a pair to a kid for every pair we sold, and we were going to help kids in Argentina who need shoes to go to school that's the idea that became famous that people know us for the second idea is we were gonna be the first shoe company to eliminate the horrible waste of cardboard boxes think

Starting point is 00:43:36 about when you buy a pair of shoes what do you do with the box you throw it away and most of you probably don't even recycle it I mean get is hard you know it's not easy to recycle sometimes. And especially 10 years ago, very few people were recycling stuff like boxes. And I hated the fact that there was so much waste being created by the shoe industry. And so I got these recyclable, you know, bags, linen bags that were made of materials that could be repurposed. And also it could be used for something. You could put stuff in it and whatnot.

Starting point is 00:44:08 And so we were going to be the first company to only use bags. So that worked great when our initial sales were online, because someone would order a pair, you stick the bag in the box or the FedEx envelope or whatever you sent, and you sent it, and you did not have to waste another box. But then when we got into Nordstrom, they said, okay, I mean, this is, we were starting some press we're in vogue it's exciting like you know they're like okay we're in we're gonna give it a shot we're gonna give you five stores Southern California and um they said uh but we need boxes and I was like no there are no boxes and they're like yeah but that's you don't understand like the way that our business works is we have stock rooms and every brand gets a stock room and they have boxes

Starting point is 00:44:44 by size and so when someone wants a seven they come and get a seven it won't work with bags and I'm like well then we're not gonna do business and they're like what and I'm like well we're not gonna create waste in the world with these boxes so we're in these bags and the buyer was just like first off I don't think anyone ever told Nordstrom like they're just not gonna do business but I mean I once again I wasn't thinking of it like a business and I was and I was adamant about this bag thing because I was getting really good feedback because like people love the fact that I mean they connected with this idea so anyway so the guy who was a buyer said fine like we're we'll try it I mean

Starting point is 00:45:18 but I'm telling you this is going to be really really hard to stack bags and and if our associates who make money on commission have trouble getting your shoes, they won't sell as well. I was like, well, let's just give it a shot. So the first week, it's actually pretty easy to stack bags. Our sales the first week are like doing great. Like I'm calling, I'm like so excited, whatever. Second week, it's like an abrupt halt. I mean, I don't think a pair sells.

Starting point is 00:45:44 And I'm like, what happened? And he goes, go to, you know, La Brea Nordstrom and look in the stock room. I go in there, it's a tangled mess because each bag has a string and then a tag on it and they get caught. And I mean, literally, you can't pull these bags apart. So now when the customer comes in and says, I want size seven, the person's not going to waste their time and lose commission. It's like, well, how about a pair of vans instead? Right. You know, or we're sold out.

Starting point is 00:46:08 That was the thing. Everyone's like, they're sold out. I'm like, they're not sold out. They're in there. And so literally Nordstrom said, until you get boxes, like no more business. And so we actually got kicked out of Nordstrom's. It took us about six months or so before we finally got into like boxes because it wasn't just so easy as like getting any old box. We want to design the box and all this.

Starting point is 00:46:28 And so literally, it's like it's so interesting because I feel like in business, you breaking rules sometimes leads to innovation and new companies and all these things. But you got to know which rules to break because there's some rules that you just can't break. And I mean, we have boxes today. So, you know, I mean, it's funny, those early memories are so great, but it, and it, but hopefully it shows other entrepreneurs and people thinking about businesses. Like they all start, you know, in a garage, in an apartment, with an idea, with a group of people who believe in it before anyone else, you struggle with all these crazy things. And then if you just keep at it long enough, enough good things start happening.

Starting point is 00:47:08 So what I want to do, we have, there's so many things we could go for a five hour talk here. But before we do that, what I'd like to do is take some audience Q&A. Great. So we have some questions that were gathered during the break. And so I'm going to start with, as an entrepreneur, we all face fear. What was your greatest fear in business? And then part two, what does failure look like to you? That's a really good question. So I had different fears of different businesses, but I want to stick to Tom's because I think it was probably the most motivating fear. I think sometimes fear can paralyze you in business or in life and relationships. And sometimes it can be the greatest motivator and the greatest catalyst

Starting point is 00:47:56 for success. So I go to Argentina after that first giving trip. We've given 10,000 shoes. We originally were trying to do 250 kids. So 10,000 is amazing, right? But also what I created now is 10,000 kids who need another pair of shoes. So the very problem that I was trying to alleviate through the business idea actually was exasperated with that initial success. Because I was not thinking about 10,000 kids when I had 250 shoes made. I was thinking something that seemed very manageable, and that is these 250 kids getting them shoes. But now once we sold and gave away 10,000,

Starting point is 00:48:34 I had this, I left that trip not as excited as I should have been. I left thinking, oh my gosh, I can't let these communities down. Like they think we're coming back in four months and giving another 10,000 pairs of shoes away. So I've got to make sure that I can sell these shoes. And frankly, I didn't know how I was going to do it. I mean, we had had some luck with this media and we got some momentum, but I mean, there was no guarantee that anyone was placing more

Starting point is 00:48:57 orders for 10,000 shoes. And so I remember like, I mean, I was barely sleeping. I was definitely not healthy in terms of the hours I was working. And it wasn't because I was loving it or it was fun or I was having the high from the joy of the kids. I was literally afraid of having to go back there and be like, we don't have any more shoes. We only sold 2,000 pairs. So only 20% of you get shoes. So fear really was a motivator and has been in many different chapters in Tom's, not because I was afraid of failing as a business. I'd already done that before with my reality channel.

Starting point is 00:49:33 But failing other humans is a much heavier burden to wear, especially when they have so little and they're expecting so much. So that's really how fear has been a great motivator for me. What are two to three books you can't live without? The four-hour work week. I mean, I did give him a 20 earlier. I didn't have the mental toughness to get through the four-hour body. So, but no, I mean, mean in all seriousness like that book was a huge influence as i said before which i'm super grateful for um you know i'd say uh the books that have had the biggest impact on me in in the last few years one of them is uh it's called

Starting point is 00:50:19 the art of power it's by a vietnamese buddhist monk named Nhat Hanh. And the great thing about it is it talks about the, when he's talking about the art of power, it's definitely not the way we think of power in the West, but really the power of mindfulness and really of being able to be present in the moment in everything that you're doing. And I found that that book, which I've read multiple times now,

Starting point is 00:50:43 has had a huge, huge, huge influence on just how I try to approach my day, my business, parenting, my marriage, everything. So I highly recommend that book if you haven't read it. Meditations, we talked about earlier. Marcus Aurelius is another really, really great one. I think depending on where you are in your journey, I think both of Howard Schultz's books are amazing for entrepreneurs. His first book was called Pour Your Heart Into It. It's an early story of Starbucks and how it was created. And I think it really illustrates a lot of amazing things that entrepreneurs can learn from.

Starting point is 00:51:20 And then his second book, which was a really important book for me to read at a point when which I actually left the business for a while and then came back to it, was called Onward. And that was about some of the struggles that Starbucks went through and how they kind of rebuilt the culture and the company in the last 10 years. And so I'm really thankful that Howard was so vulnerable and open with that book because I think it answered a lot of questions I was having at the time as well. So those are a couple of good ones that I would recommend. And note on Thich Nhat Hanh, the Vietnamese Buddhist monk, he was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., really fascinating guy. And his first book, which was kind of like meditations in the sense that it wasn't intended to be a book,

Starting point is 00:52:03 called I believe it's Peace every step pieces every step yeah is fantastic it was actually a guide intended to be given to new monks and visitors to his Center in I guess it was at the time perhaps it was in Vietnam he's it's in France in France yeah right fantastic fantastic book one more just because we're in California and it's a someone i've also looked up and learned a lot from is and it just came out with the i think maybe the 10 or 20th year anniversary version is yvonne chenard who started patagonia let my people go surfing it's it's a fantastic book um about company culture it also shares some really tough times in the Patagonia ups and downs

Starting point is 00:52:45 that I learned a lot from. And also, I think it was interesting because when he wrote the book 10 years ago, it was kind of the beginning of internet sales. And it really shows how they did not risk their business by having too much of their sales in one place. They have a wholesale business, they have retail stores, they have online, they have catalog. And that's something that we've done with Tom's over the years is to move away from just online to now wholesale. And now we're spending a lot of our energy building our own retail stores. This next one is, if you lost everything today, what would you be thankful for? Well, I mean, the truth is, is it's impossible for me to lose everything today because everything that I have has very little to do with what I have materially. The experiences I've had,

Starting point is 00:53:34 the memories I have, the friends, the family, that's what I have. And that literally can't be taken away. So, I mean, and, you know, no one's really asked me that question, but I could respond that quickly because that's immediately what I think about when I think of the greatest memories and moments of my life. And that's why this has been so much fun is I'm getting to go down memory lane. And those are memories that even if the business blew up tomorrow, I would still have those memories. Have your experiences, let's just say at Tom's, but it could be across the board. And I also want to highlight one thing for folks, which we, well, I glossed over earlier. I didn't dig into. So you mentioned all these businesses that seem to have nothing to do with one another.

Starting point is 00:54:21 But what are the meta skills that you're developing? You're learning to negotiate. You're learning how to attract and manage talent. You're learning how to mitigate or evaluate risk, right? So even though the businesses, the industry seem totally unrelated, the skills he's developing do carry from one to the next. Absolutely. They're not domain specific. So how have your business experiences affected how you parent? Yeah, I'm really glad you asked this question because it's something that I have a lot of personal energy around right now. One of the big things is what my wife have is a monthly calendar date. I say date, like it's really not a date, sometimes a battle, but it usually ends pretty good because we drink enough wine to like, you know, compromise. Yeah. But, but the calendar is king. Like if you

Starting point is 00:55:12 have a busy life, if you have, if you're driving hard and work and family, like, I mean, the calendar is, is the king. Cause we put things on the calendar, they stick. You know, that's kind of our thing. Like, and so we make sure, like, if I want to say my goal right now is to spend either two mornings or two afternoons every week at home with our son, just me and him, not with my wife. Just like, we either take him on a hike in the backpack, take him to the beach, you know, just play in his room, whatever. But that's my goal. And it will never, ever happen if it's a goal in my journal. It will only happen if, in my case, my wife, my assistant, and I all put it on the calendar. Because if it's on the calendar, you're accountable to it. She's like, you put this, I mean, no meetings, and then nothing gets scheduled. So for me, the way that we do it is very much

Starting point is 00:55:59 focusing on booking things and scheduling even little things, which might seem ridiculous. Like, you put play with your son on the calendar? Like, that could seem, that could come off like really, like, I don't know, just off-putting. But the truth is, if it's on the calendar, it happens. And even if that seems ridiculous, as long as it happens, that's what's the most important thing. So, yeah.

Starting point is 00:56:19 So, and that's also beyond, know just time my son like i one thing that i've always had is a lot of hobbies like i love to surf i love to snowboard i like to fly fish i have lots of friends that like these hobbies we climb together in the summer and so it's the same thing like just as i'm planning that business trip to asia to do a press tour because we've opened in a lot of stores there if i'm going to give two weeks of that i trip to Asia to do a press tour because we've opened in a lot of stores there if I'm going to give two weeks of that I'm also going to make sure I'm giving two weeks to doing stuff with my buddies and making sure I stay connected to them because one thing you find uh as we get older and you you know especially especially unfortunately this happens more with

Starting point is 00:56:58 men I think than women is we really lose touch with our guy friends like we focus on our family we focus on our jobs and and that's like one of my dad has always said, one of his biggest regrets as he's had this amazing life is that like he focused so much time on his family and his jobs and my mom that he didn't, and he got older in his 40s and 50s, he looked around and he didn't have guys to really depend on.

Starting point is 00:57:19 And so that's another thing that I've always, since learning from my dad, that have placed an importance on. It doesn't have to be a lot of time, but it has to be quality when you do it. And that usually comes from, once again, scheduling it on the calendar. Yeah, if it's not on the calendar, it's not real. Yeah. For sure.

Starting point is 00:57:35 If you had a gigantic billboard or a side of a building. Okay. And you could put any message on it, meaning like getting it out to a lot of people, right? What would you put up there? It's the easiest question you've asked because it's something that has been, has literally been my mantra since I was 19 years old. And that is carpe diem, seize the day. Because we have no, we have very little control whether we'll be on this planet tomorrow. I mean, I could die in a

Starting point is 00:58:05 fatal car crash on the way home and that's it. And so if I don't literally live every day as if it might be my last, then I am not doing a service to the life I've been given. And unfortunately, that became my mantra after one of my best friends died in a plane crash when I was 18. And I realized I could do nothing to get him back, but I could honor his life by living every day if it was going to be my last. And so every email you've ever received from me, there's never a yours or a thank you or a truly. I signed every email, every letter, carpe diem. And I have since I was 19. And some people, they don't know me, feel like, oh, it's kind of a little cheesy. It's a little too optimistic. That's a little too much to think of, like seizing

Starting point is 00:58:49 every day. But I believe that is a mantra that has served me so well because I have, I have, I've committed my life to doing that. Like if I do that, then I'm giving the most I can to what I've been given. Ladies and gentlemen, Blake McCos my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field, and then I test them, and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun,

Starting point is 01:00:03 again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog slash Friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog slash Friday, drop in your email, and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.

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The Tim Ferriss Show - #551: TOMS Founder Blake Mycoskie — Fear{less} with Tim Ferriss

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The Tim Ferriss Show - #551: TOMS Founder Blake Mycoskie — Fear{less} with Tim Ferriss

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