The Tim Ferriss Show - #587: Terry Crews on Masculinity, True Power, Therapy, and Resisting Cynicism

Starting point is 00:00:00 This episode is brought to you by Gravity, makers of the original weighted blanket. Listeners of this podcast know I place sleep at the very top of my list for optimizing health, energy, and performance. I've had onset insomnia and all sorts of sleep issues almost my entire life. It does not come easy for me, which is why I'm always experimenting and adding new sleep aids to my roster of experimentation. This is currently my number one priority because it's the basis, the foundation for everything else. If that's in place, it helps everything else. If it's not in place, it hurts everything else. One of my new favorites is the gravity

Starting point is 00:00:35 weighted blanket. My girlfriend is also a fan. You might recognize gravity from some of my interviews on this podcast with superhuman athletes. A number of them use gravity-weighted blankets and have mentioned them, which is how I picked up the thread and ended up testing them out. 72% of gravity users have reported better, more restful sleep, and 76% have reported falling asleep faster and feeling more rested in the morning. For me, the falling asleep faster is the key piece. Better, deeper, uninterrupted sleep is key for brain function and cognitive abilities, as well as everything cardiovascular health to immune function. You know this. And if you do any form of training,

Starting point is 00:01:15 it's also the cornerstone of recovery. Gravity is the leader in weighted blanket technology. They have all sorts of other products as well, which you could check out. And they have been named the best weighted blanket by CNN, Business Insider, Good Housekeeping, and many more. And now Gravity is offering you guys, my listeners, a special discount. Order a blanket of any size or weight and receive 15% off of your order. Just go to gravityblankets.com slash Tim, and the discount will be automatically applied. That's 15% off at gravityblankets, gravityblankets.com slash Tim to get your own original weighted blanket, gravityblankets.com slash Tim. This episode is brought to you by Allform. If you've been listening to this podcast for a while,

Starting point is 00:02:04 you've probably heard me talk about Helix Sleep and their mattresses, which I've been using since 2017. I have two of them upstairs from where I'm sitting at this moment. Helix has gone beyond the bedroom and started making sofas. They've launched a company called Allform, A-L-L-F-O-R-M, and they're making premium, customizable sofas and chairs shipped right to your door at a fraction of the cost of traditional stores. So I'm sitting in my living room right now, and it's entirely all-form furniture. I've got two chairs, I've got an ottoman, and I have an L-sectional couch, and I'll come back to that. You can pick your fabric. They're all spill, stain, and scratch resistant. The sofa color, the color of the legs, the sofa size, the shape to

Starting point is 00:02:44 make sure it's perfect for you in your home. Also, all form arrives in just three to seven days and you can assemble it all yourself in a few minutes. No tools needed. I was quite astonished by how modular and easy these things fit together, kind of like Lego pieces. They've got armchairs, love seats, all the way up to an eight seat sectional. So there's something for everyone. You can also start small and kind of build on top of it if you wanted to get a smaller couch and then build out on it, which is actually in a way what I did because I can turn my L-sectional couch into a normal straight couch and then with a separate ottoman in a matter of about 60 seconds. It's pretty rad. So I mentioned

Starting point is 00:03:19 I have all of these different things in this room. I use the natural leg finish, which is their lightest color, and I dig it. I mean, I've been using these things hours and hours and hours every single day. So I am using what I am sharing with you guys. And if getting a sofa without trying it in-store sounds risky, you don't need to worry. All Form sofas are delivered directly to your home with fast free shipping, and you get 100 days to decide if you want to keep it. That's more than three months, and if you don't love it, they'll pick it up for free and give you a full refund. Your sofa frame also has a forever warranty that's literally forever. So check it out. Take a look. They've got all sorts of cool stuff to choose from. I was skeptical and it actually worked.

Starting point is 00:03:58 It worked much better than I could have imagined. And I'm very, very happy. So to find your perfect sofa, check out allform.com slash Tim. That's A-L-L-F-O-R-M dot com slash Tim. Allform is offering 20% off all orders to you, my dear listeners, at allform.com slash Tim. Make sure to use the code Tim at checkout. That's allform.com slash Tim and use code Tim at checkout. Optimal minimum. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Tim at checkout. Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers of all different types, of all different stripes, from many different disciplines to tease out the frameworks, the lessons learned, the habits, routines, et cetera, that you can apply to your

Starting point is 00:05:03 own lives. My guest today is Terry Crews. You can find him on Twitter and social at Terry Crews. Terry can do it all. Author, action movie hero, sitcom star, children's book illustrator, advertising pitch man, playable video game character, talent show host, high-end furniture designer, and human rights activist. The list goes on and on. Terry's new memoir is tough, subtitled My Journey to True Power. In it, he chronicles the story of how he went from being a six-year-old boy with a goofy, toothless smile to being utterly selfish and angry to a man who can finally acknowledge his own weaknesses and vulnerabilities and use his experiences to help motivate those around him. And Terry's story is fascinating, incredible, heartbreaking in some respects, gut-wrenching.

Starting point is 00:05:54 It is a story that I've learned a lot from, and I think also a story that you can learn a lot from. But let's finish the bio before we dive into the conversation. Terry has starred as a series regular in three consecutive TV series that have surpassed the coveted 100-episode mark. Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Are We There Yet?, and Everybody Hates Chris. Terry is set to star in Tales of the Walking Dead and hosts NBC's top-rated alternative series, America's Got Talent, and its spinoffs, AGT Champions and AGT Extreme. Cruise recently added yet another title, Children's Book Illustrator, which I mentioned earlier, to his resume for his

Starting point is 00:06:31 first-of-a-kind augmented reality book, Come Find Me. Terry's Crew is his latest children's lit entry, a graphic novel set to be released in late 2020. Terry's Crew provides insight into his childhood in Michigan and what it was like trying to find his place. In 2021, Terry and his wife, Rebecca King Cruz, released an exclusive Audible audiobook, Stronger Together, sharing the staggering ups and downs of their relationship and how they've weathered the myriad crises that have rocked their marriage. Cruz, a lifelong artist, which we dug deeply into in my first conversation with him, released his furniture collection with Bernhardt Designs in 2017, which premiered at the International Contemporary Furniture Fair in New York and was awarded the prestigious Best of Neocon 2017.

Starting point is 00:07:16 Always drawing and sketching alongside his many day jobs, and that is many, many day jobs, Cruz joined the ranks of a number of other design world heavyweights, including Yves Behar, as a contributor to Bernhardt's portfolio. Again, you can find him on social, jobs, Cruz joined the ranks of a number of other design world heavyweights, including Yves Bahar as a contributor to Bernhardt's portfolio. Again, you can find him on social, on Twitter, at Terry Cruz, Instagram, Terry Cruz, and on Facebook, Real Terry Cruz. And now without further ado, please enjoy a wide ranging and very deep conversation with Terry Cruz. Terry, it is so nice to see you again. Thanks for taking the time. Good to see you too, Tim. I tell you, it's been a long time.

Starting point is 00:07:51 It has. And last time we were in person on stage in Los Angeles, now we are remote, still looking at each other via video. And for those who can't see where I'm sitting because they're listening to audio, I'm sitting in a studio with a projection of the skyline of Austin behind me because I had two location failures today. This is my third location. And, you know, maybe think of something I heard once when I did very little television, which was, or it was more of a joke. And the joke was, why does thunder come after lightning? And then the answer was because even God waits for sound. And I was, so I was hoping if you could maybe just give people a little bit of connective tissue related to your professional life, because people see the red carpet events, they see the TV shows, and they might assume that it's just like all highlights all day long. And I was just wondering if you could maybe add a little bit of color to what a day in the life actually looks like, because there's so much behind the scenes. It's seasonal for me. One thing I learned, especially now, it's not as entertainment has changed significantly just in the last five years, especially after the pandemic, the last two years.

Starting point is 00:09:12 And streaming has kind of taken over. I had a much more structured life before, you know, you do a sitcom and you wake up at four in the morning, get the workout in, go to the set, do your whole thing. I mean, my workout is two hours. So no matter what my call time is, I'm up at least three hours before my call time so that I can get all my, you know, my workout in my show but, and that's a 12 hour kind of sitcom day. You know, when I was doing Brooklyn nine, nine for eight straight years, that was my go-to and that's kind of how a day went, but now it's streaming and the way everything is going, people have now started to do limited series and I'm not on Brooklyn anymore, but I am doing, I did a stint on a TV series, Bram C called tales of the walking dead, which is going to be really cool. It was all in Atlanta and we shot 15 hours and it was like shooting a movie in 10 days. And that's kind of how everything goes. It's always like, hurry up, shoot it all.

Starting point is 00:10:26 And then now you're down for two weeks, three weeks, finding out what your next thing is. But this is the thing. I never lose my own structure. Wherever I'm at, I have my first place I'll do. And first thing I find is where I'm going to work out. And then also what I'm going to eat. And also my timing of my eating. I still do intermittent fasting. I'm going to work out. And then also what I'm going to eat and also my timing of my eating. I still do intermittent fasting. I'm going, I'm in the beginning of 12 years now straight of intermittent fasting and doing my eight hour window from two to 10. And then it changes by when I go to whatever time zone I'm in. And now it's funny because a lot of times I find I can go one meal a day.

Starting point is 00:11:09 I actually enjoy skipping that two o'clock and then maybe by three or four, having a charcuterie or something like that with some real satiating cheese and some meat and that's it. And then I have a dinner and then I'm done. That's kind of the way I've been doing it lately. But the industry changing so much and so much is also on social media. Now, every production expects to take all your followers with them. So you're like doing two jobs at the same time. And this is where I had to really, really kind of push back a little bit because too

Starting point is 00:11:48 much phone time is just not good for you. I never bring my phone when I'm working. I leave my phone in the trailer. I find that if I lose my focus, I could lose my career. And the lack of focus that comes from always checking an email, always checking a post and looking at what people are commenting on and this kind of stuff, man, it slowly but surely changes you. And I saw it happening in my performances and I only did it for a small time because I immediately started to see a decline in my performances.

Starting point is 00:12:27 It didn't look like I was there. I didn't feel present. I was somewhere else while I was saying the lines. And I said, man, this is going to hurt me. So I learned to just kind of leave and create a seasonal kind of thing with my social media. Just kind of like, and what was crazy and what I figured out, I didn't lose any followers. In fact, I would gain some, you know, people are like, where you been? You know, I'm going, oh my God, because you get this feeling or you got to feed the beast.

Starting point is 00:12:57 You know what I mean? Like if you don't keep the pipeline running, all of a sudden you're just going to run dry. But I found it wasn't true. I found that when I'm doing America's Got Talent and it's time to promote and time to get your social media back up and running, it's like people never left. And I was like, man, that was a really good thing to find out. Good to test early and learn that you can do it. And again, I try to go to bed as early as I can. If I can get to bed literally at 8.30, I'm gone. Because I just enjoy my mornings. With my workout, it's my peace, man.

Starting point is 00:13:31 I put my headphones on. I'll listen to your podcast. I'll listen to some, I read a lot of good books via audio book while I'm working out. That just give me the insights and the thing that I need. And I literally, I probably read a book a week at least, and sometimes two if it gets really rolling, if the books are short. But I find that the reading just really keeps me level-headed in a world of quick blurbs and people who want to excite everyone else and get everybody

Starting point is 00:14:06 riled up. One thing I like to say is the media likes to get everyone angry and keep them there because it's very profitable. But reading calms all that down. You know what I'm saying? It's kind of like a very, it's a very realistic way of looking at life as opposed to blowing through the day. It's like you're enjoying a sunset when you read a book. That's the analogy that I have for that. And it gives me great perspective. Sometimes I read books on people that I wouldn't normally listen to or understand or try to understand. And then you get a deep, you get a new empathy for different people you may not even agree but i can definitely empathize with points of view and where people

Starting point is 00:14:51 are coming from and it gives nuance where there is i mean the death of nuance has been kind of what's happening lately you know i mean yeah sharp contrast I have, I've probably 27 footnotes that I've made for follow-up questions on what you just said. So let me, let me jump into some of them. We'll start with the end first. Are there any books, audio books, anything that you've kind of consumed long form that has stuck out to you or that has been memorable in the last, could be six to 12 months, two years. It's been a while since you and I saw each other. It feels recent on one hand, but it's also quite a while ago. There is a book, Walter Isaacson is like my favorite biographer. You know, this man, he gets so in depth. It's like, you know, you're living a life with these people as you read it. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:15:45 And I believe what is the one is with Jennifer Doudna and how she code breakers. Yes. Oh my God. That let me tell you, man, I'm a big science guy. Yeah. And for people who don't know, this is CRISPR related. I mean, there's a lot more to it, but very CRISPR related. all about James Watson, Watson and Crick, who his teammate, they basically discovered the whole structure of the double helix and the whole thing. But James Watson went public about how he felt

Starting point is 00:16:35 the intelligence of blacks were inferior to everyone else because of their genes. And you got to understand, as I'm reading this book, my heart just sunk into my stomach. I was like, wow, here, this is the man who is probably going to be, go down in the annals of history as being this innovator, this person that really solved so many problems. But here he is creating a new one right at the same time. It hit me really, really hard because this is another thing. You know, there was a level of success you get to that it actually can harm you. One example is even when I watched The Last Dance, you know, the Michael Jordan documentary.

Starting point is 00:17:23 And Michael Jordan is one of the greatest athletes of all time. But was he happy? When you look at the whole doc, you go, my God, like, here's a man who's like, I don't know if we could really say that he was actually fulfilled in any of this. In fact, a lot of teammates, a lot of people were like, he was one of the people that you really didn't want to be around. You know what I mean? Where it's like, and this is the crime. This is not a judgment on Michael Jordan, but it's like myself included.

Starting point is 00:17:57 I was the guy who had what everyone would say was everything and was great. But I had all these other things wrong at the same time. And here I was, you know, I was successful. I was popular and everybody liked me and the whole thing, but you know, my wife was ready to leave. She's like, I can't put up with it anymore. And that reminded me a little bit of James Watson's conundrum. You know what I mean? It was like, here he is, one of the smartest men on earth, and he's got this thing so wrong. See, this is how we think even as men. We think whoever runs the business is the guy with the biggest bench press.

Starting point is 00:18:39 And you're like, but that makes no sense. Like, yo, but I have the biggest bench press, so I get to say what goes on in this business. But that doesn't mean you know anything about inventory or, you know. But it's such a wild take where you're like, you're misrepresenting here. and these things in Hollywood, in science, in politics, in almost every genre of what you would call life. And I say, man, that's the mistake we could always make. And we can never forget that. And we have to humble ourselves. We have to really, really understand that we're all just beginning. Even when you've succeeded, when you've got this thing, you're still starting at day one every day.

Starting point is 00:19:30 And is the mistake, think just assuming that you know more than you know, or that you are, you have more certainty in more places than you actually do. Is that the crux of the issue? Or is there, would you describe it a different way? You know what I would describe the mistake is? The mistake to me is self-righteousness. That's the mistake. The mistake is you have deemed yourself self-righteous. And when you are self-righteous, you can now do the most heinous inhuman things to other people because you feel right, because you know in your heart you're right. But for thousands of years, and this is the thing where it's so crazy because now we can mix everything up. I think there's a lot of conflating going on, even with

Starting point is 00:20:19 racism. People say, well, that's racist. Well, actually, a lot of it is self-righteous. And if you define the problem correctly, you can actually deal with the problem correctly. And this is the thing about self-righteousness is that you can be black and self-righteous. You can be gay and self-righteous. You can be white self-righteous. You can be a policeman and self-righteous. You can be all kinds of things. It doesn't matter. You can be poor and self-righteous. But we have these things, especially in Hollywood, where it's like you're poor. Now you got the upper hand. You know more. And you're the downtrodden and you're this and that. It's kind of like what I call victimology, where it's like you've created a hero out of anyone who's been abused or, or hurt. But the issue is, is also there's two ways to be self-righteous. You can be, you know, you can have like the divine right of Kings. You can be like,

Starting point is 00:21:16 I was born this way, or you can say I've suffered more than anybody else. So now I get to say how everything goes. You see what I mean? And I think a lot of people have never looked at the other side. It's just like someone who suffered a lot is immediately given all this play. But my thing is, is that, but you still have to respect other people. You still have to understand that you are no better than the others. It's the phrase I've used before and will continue to use is that it's really, how can you compare your suffering to another person?

Starting point is 00:21:57 It's not the oppression Olympics. It's just not, you know, you can't, we get to be right because we've suffered the most. And I always look at that and have to examine it even in the light of my own suffering and my own thing. And let me tell you, no one has basically been a victim more than Terry Crews. I had victimology down. I was like, okay, my father was abusive. I'm black.

Starting point is 00:22:26 I grew up poor. I grew up in the hood. I had every excuse in the book. And I felt justified in my self-righteousness. And I used that against my family. I used that to manipulate people. I used that in order to gain things that I never earned. Because I knew people would give me the benefit of the doubt because of my background. I knew I could use that. But in the end, when all is said and done, it did not leave me fulfilled because I knew these things didn't play. The problem with victimology is all those excuses, they work for a minute, but they expire very quickly. I like to call it an expired credit

Starting point is 00:23:14 card. Your excuses, they have a valid date, but it expires really fast. And then you try to use it the next day and you get declined. And it's kind of like every excuse you ever wanted to use, there's a time when it doesn't work anymore. I would love to hear more about your personal experience. So you had, as you mentioned, victimology down. And then at some point, you reflected back on that with self-awareness and then changed behavior or your perspectives, how you approached things. Were there any particular triggers? Was there a particular day?

Starting point is 00:23:54 Could you sort of tell a story or give us an example of something that catalyzed that change? Because for a lot of people, if they have any perspective, they may not change that. They may not actually have a trigger to turn it inward and take a look at that. So could you describe what happened? Well, you know, in our house, we call it D-Day. It was the day everything changed. And I've gone public a lot about my pornography addiction. Then there's a lot of people who say you could never really be addicted to pornography or whatever. And it's always been said that, but all I knew is I couldn't stop. That's all I knew. For me, it was a numbing device.

Starting point is 00:24:38 It was something that I went to when I was sad, when I was happy, and I always went back to it and it left me unfulfilled and I had to get more just to get a feeling of fulfillment, but then I would be left empty again. So it was a cycle I couldn't stop, but it was also a secret that I held from my family and my wife and the whole thing. And my wife finally confronted me on it. And let me tell you what was so wild and really, really strange. The question I was asking was, why doesn't she believe me? But the question I should have been asking was, why did I lie? You know what I mean? Think about that. It's all in the context is the same. And I'm sitting here lying and wondering why she won't believe me.

Starting point is 00:25:30 It's all out focused. It was all her. It was the responsibility was on her in order to make me right. Like you should believe me because I'm telling you this, but I was lying. I was lying. I don't do this. No, I I was lying. I don't do this. No, I got no problem. I don't do any of this. And why doesn't she believe me? But once it switched into why am I lying? All of a sudden it went inward.

Starting point is 00:25:58 All of a sudden I had to ask myself the questions I had been avoiding for years and years and years. And it was like, hey, man, you have an issue. Why aren't you doing something about it? And like I said, and I would pull out that card of excuses and this, and I would say, well, you know, I'm a man and, you know, men, we need to, I have a high sex drive and this kind of stuff. And I'll pull out that card. And then my wife declined it. That credit card was done. It was expired.

Starting point is 00:26:33 And she was out. And you know what, Tim? What's so crazy is that I was like, fine. Bye. Leave. I'm Terry Crews. I can get any woman I want. fact i will and you know what you know this is a normal thing in hollywood you know divorce is it's pretty normal and it's not a

Starting point is 00:26:55 big deal in fact my career won't suffer nobody cares if i lose my family hollywood certainly family. Hollywood certainly doesn't. And then I listened to myself talking like that. And I went, who are you? I didn't like that guy. And I started to have internal conversations with myself. And I was like, man, this is not who you say you are. And I realized I was two different people. You know, when you have a double life, and when I say a double life, what I mean is I was more concerned with the image. I was more concerned with the image of Terry Crews rather than who Terry Crews really was. And it was two different people. And once I started to try to put them together, my world crumbled. Everything that I knew, everything that I was around, everything that

Starting point is 00:27:54 I thought I stood for, I thought I was like, yeah, you know, women are equal and the whole thing, but nothing in my behavior would do that or even said that. And in fact, I thought I was more valuable than all the women in my life simply because I was a man, simply because of the culture I was in. I grew up in black culture and hip hop culture and sports culture. And there was a lot of misogyny. It was a lot of, you're the man, dog. Hey, man, you better get your girl in line. These kind of words. It was looked at as like, yo, man, you control your wife or your girl.

Starting point is 00:28:35 You actually owned her. I remember in the NFL going to the strip club, and we'd be in the club with all the guys and and the whole thing and the girls would be up on stage. And one of them would come down and actually want to talk to the players. And I would look at her like, okay, you know, she'd start talking, you know, I got to do this for my kids. And you're like, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. You're ruining the experience because you're becoming a human being right before my eyes. I like you to be a picture. I want you to be a doll, a mannequin.

Starting point is 00:29:17 Tim, but once you open that can of worms, it's literally like a domino effect. Like everything started to fall on itself. I went through a huge, huge, just, and then I got to say this because in my culture, when I grew up, therapy was looked at as ridiculous. And where I grew up, it was like, you know, you can't cure crazy. That was the term. It was like, you're crazy, you can't cure it. My father being an alcoholic, I remember him going to, he went to a psychologist one time. And I remember I was probably around 12, 13 years old. And I'm like, wow, I think my dad's finally going to get some help and the whole thing.

Starting point is 00:30:07 And dude, it was crazy because like a week later, the psychologist killed himself. It was on the front page of the newspaper. Oh my God. And I went, that don't work. You know, my whole mindset was like, huh? Did my father kill him? Did he say something that made this guy jump off a bridge? And he got literally jumped off a bridge. And I was like, what?

Starting point is 00:30:24 That doesn't work. And so I had in my mind that all this therapy stuff is mumbo jumbo. And so there was a block, there was a resistance to that. And I finally saw a counselor who said, you need to go to this place and get some therapy. And I was like, oh no, you know, and I remember, and my wife said, look, you know what, if you don't do this, you know, there's no hope of us ever coming back together. Cause we had split up at that time. And so I went and I said, all right, I'll give it a shot. And I'm sitting in this room with these people. Terry, may I interject for one second?

Starting point is 00:31:04 Oh yeah, go ahead just one question so did did you guys sort of split at that point or things on ice because of how you handled the situation d-day in that conversation or was it the subject matter like the addiction itself and other things i guess i'm asking was it what you did or was it how you handled what you did or something else? It was what I did because what happened was I confessed to a infidelity that happened 10 years earlier as a result of this addiction. Because, you know, I went to a massage parlor and got a hand job and I vowed I would never, ever tell anybody, you know, it was one of them things, but I was, it was at the beginning

Starting point is 00:31:51 of my career. I was, I was in Vancouver. I was by myself. I thought I would never be there. I thought I'd never do something like that, but you know, it was wild because I found myself in those circumstances and I did it, but I thought I would never tell. I was like, I'm taking this secret to the grave, man. This is never, ever coming out. But my wife constantly, she was like, no, you did something. She said, there's something you're not telling me. And again, I was lying the whole time.

Starting point is 00:32:19 And she could feel that, you know what I mean? You could feel when your significant other is not telling you the truth. And it was just, there was something she didn't know. And when I told her, I remember just, it came out and I remember she's going, that's it. Like, wow. You know, who am I living with? Like she had no idea. And that was the thing because I was, I had put an image in front of her and what was so crazy is that she was married to this image. It wasn't fair. It wasn't fair to her. It wasn't, it wasn't, there's no honesty in a relationship because you have to cover a lie with another lie. And then it just keeps continuing to grow. I mean, we were getting farther and farther apart is what was happening. And she knew it.

Starting point is 00:33:09 She felt it. And that was the D-Day moment. And she said, I'm out. She's like, that's it. You can't come home. You have to show me that you want this, that you actually want to do something. And like I said, in the beginning, I was like, I'm fine. And then I realized, I was like, you know what? Because the whole thing was, it was about her. And it's little bitty questions. It was just like, man,

Starting point is 00:33:35 you know, maybe it's me. A realization that hit me that it was me, that it was. And I have to say this, going into therapy, you know, all the great thing about therapy, especially with addiction therapy, was just the 12 steps. You know, the 12 steps, they work for every sort of addiction, be it drugs, alcohol, sex, all these things. And it starts with like, you know, the serenity prayer, which is help me to accept the things that I can't change and the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. Okay? But you have to understand, men, especially in my world, you live life as if you're in a revenge movie. Everything.

Starting point is 00:34:24 I'm laughing because I'm a lot smaller than you are, but I understand. You know what I mean? I get it. I get it. Hey, movies like that, man, like Payback and Death Wish. Oh, Wrath of Man. I mean, there's a long list.

Starting point is 00:34:40 Oh, Wrath of Man, taking this thing where you get on the phone and you tell the guy, I'm going to hunt you down. I'm going to take you and your crew out one by one. And you're going to die slow. You know, it's like man on fire. Also a good one. Oh, my God. And you make them pay for everything.

Starting point is 00:35:00 You make them pay for everything they ever did to you. That's the male fantasy. It's better than sex. You know what I mean? Like, Tim, it's like, oh my God. You can literally sit in a theater like, man, oh, that feels good. But this is the problem, Tim. This is the problem, man. I found out, and this is so crazy, you can because revenge is trying to control things you can't control. It's literally like you've lost it and now you just got to even the score. You know, most of us are all about settling scores. But the thing is, the score is never really settled. It's kind of like things just get worse. Things tend to fall apart.

Starting point is 00:36:09 Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time what I would take if I could only take one supplement. The answer is invariably AG1 by Athletic Greens. If you're traveling, if you're just busy, if you're not sure if your meals are where they should be, it covers your bases. With approximately 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food source ingredients,

Starting point is 00:36:34 you'll be hard-pressed to find a more nutrient-dense formula on the market. It has a multivitamin, multimineral greens complex, probiotics and prebiotics for gut health, an immunity formula, digestive enzymes and adaptogens. You get the idea. Right now, Athletic Greens is giving my audience a special offer on top of their all-in-one formula, which is a free vitamin D supplement and five free travel packs with your first subscription purchase. Many of us are deficient in vitamin D.

Starting point is 00:37:01 I found that true for myself, which is usually produced in our bodies from sun exposure. So adding a vitamin D supplement to your daily routine is a great option for additional immune support. Support your immunity, gut health, and energy by visiting athleticgreens.com slash Tim. You'll receive up to a year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your subscription. Again, that's athleticgreens.com slash Tim. I was the kind of guy, I even start my book out where I talk about how I beat this man up on the street, man, for disrespecting my wife. And this was in Pasadena. This was around, oh, I would say 2008, 2009. And this guy, he basically talked disrespectfully to my wife and she was just like, whatever. But I put this dude out. I mean, literally put his head on the concrete and the police came and it was a big hullabaloo, man. And I, the only way I got out

Starting point is 00:38:04 of it was because there was a guy in the crowd who was like, no, no, no. I saw the whole thing, officer. This guy came up there and they were bothering them too and the whole thing. So I got away with it. It was way too big a reaction for what was done. But that was me selling my scores. Here's the revenge movie.

Starting point is 00:38:24 And my wife pulled me to the side. And we went home and she said, Terry, she said, you have to promise me, promise me that you will never, ever do anything like that again. And I was like, what? I mean, you need to be protected. And she said, wait a minute. She said, I got this. But you are going to lose everything you have. You said you're going to get sued,

Starting point is 00:38:48 you're going to get shot and injured, or you may be killed by someone who you go up against on the wrong day or a police officer. You can't go around and putting people on their head like this. I was like, no, I don't. I said, I got to. This is my thing. This is me being a man. This is what this is about. This is me being tough. And she said, no, Terry. She said, you got to promise me. Promise me. And I said, okay. All right. I promise. I promise. I don't even think I meant it at the time, but I made a promise to her that I was going to take the righteous path and be less violent or nonviolent and try to handle things in a nonviolent way. actually saved my life in so many ways, so many ways. And what I mean is by not choosing revenge, because that's what that is. The whole thing is a little bit like you're playing chess and you don't know the right move, so you turn over the board.

Starting point is 00:39:58 That was my answer for everything. I'm stuck on a move. Instead of thinking my way out of it, my answer was just turn everything over. And that was my answer for everything. And it led me to a very, very hollow existence. So there I was in therapy, trying to figure my life out and trying to control the things that I couldn't control. Because you can't control people. You can't control what people say to you. And a lot has been said about even my friend Chris Rock and my friend Will Smith. And what just happened at the Academy Awards. And I, there was a time when I was Will Smith. But what saved me was when I was the time I was Chris Rock and it didn't descend into chaos.

Starting point is 00:40:48 I decided to what you would call take an L for one day, but actually win the whole war. And the other thing was in therapy, I discovered is when you can have the courage to change the things you can. And let me tell you this, because of victimology, I had given up control on probably every aspect of my life. It was always up to somebody else. Even where I worked, what I did, it was always someone else's decision. And then I found out I had a lot more power than I realized. I was like, if I just work on me, if I stop pointing at everyone else and I just put 100% into improving myself, all of a sudden things started to change. Tim, I have to tell you, man, that first year was really, really hard coming out of therapy. And I mean, I was there for in and out for a while. We would do it by phone,

Starting point is 00:41:52 go back in. It was a place called Psychological Counseling Services in Phoenix. And they had dealt with a lot of people who had really lost everything because of these kinds of addictions. And it was wild because I thought, can I change? I was getting triggered every five minutes. It's like, I don't know. But what was happening is as I continued to work on myself, I changed. I slowly but surely started to see things the way I needed to see them. And what's so crazy about belief is when you believe you're different, you slowly start to become different. You have to believe it first. You know what I mean? It's kind of like...

Starting point is 00:42:35 Terry, would you mind giving an example? It would be very helpful because I think from the outside looking in, people see this incredible physical specimen, certainly in all my interactions with you and your descriptions and stories and tribe of mentors. You've done a lot of self-development and you've worked on yourself a lot. Could you give an example from that chapter during or after therapy of something that you worked on or a belief that you gave attention to? I could tell you a distinct example that let me know I was different. And it's so innocuous and small and tiny, but it was so powerful. We were on vacation and my son, who's 16 now, but he was probably four years old. And I have five total kids, you kids, four daughters and my son.

Starting point is 00:43:26 And we were out to dinner and he spilled his water all over the table. And it was all over me. It was all over everybody. And I just said, hey, man. I said, that's okay. We'll get a towel. And I said, hey, man, when people make mistakes, it's okay. And I started dabbing up the water and the whole thing. Now, that sounds like nothing. The whole table was looking at me like this. I mean, they just were froze, like eyes bugged out. Like, what is this?

Starting point is 00:44:01 You have to understand, Tim, the way I was, was like, what is wrong with you? What? I mean, didn't you see the water right there? Now, what are you going to do? You got me wet. You got this wet. You're costing it. I'll pay for this dinner. You guys can't stay still. You guys are not paying attention. I mean, I would have went off. Tim, I can't count the family events and the things that we went to do that I ruined. Now, I also have to understand that these things were happening also because with my addiction comes guilt. You know you're lying. You know what I mean? You know what you're doing. So you take it out on everyone else. I would snap at the drop of a hat. And it was because I was angry with me because I couldn't control myself. So I would go off on everyone else. It's this common, like, you know, where you're projection.

Starting point is 00:45:07 That's the term. And I was projecting my own guilt onto everyone else. And I was that guy. I have to say, I still, I have adult children right now that I still apologize profusely for how they grew up. The Terry Crews that I was back then was my way or the highway. It was vicious. Now, but this is the thing, Tim. And again, I was Mr. Self-Help still. And the whole thing is I never hit my wife because I was like, my mom went through that. So my idea of what I was comparing myself to what I saw, and I was like, I'm way better than that.

Starting point is 00:45:49 You know, what I grew up in, you know, it was like, man, people, women were getting smacked like with impunity. And it was expected that you were to beat your wife. It was expected that you owned your kids and you beat them within an inch of their lives. And so I'm like, I'm better than that. Look at it. I mean, you guys are living a good life and you ought to be lucky. You know what I mean? But it was still cruel. It was cruel. It was self-righteous. That self-righteousness that I had mixed in with the guilt that I already felt, it really kept my family in this kind of cage in an attempt to control them, in an attempt to control my family and control the way they thought and control everything, control the fact that you spilled the water. You know what I mean? And man, my wife looked at me when I just dabbed that water up and didn't lose a thing. And I'm going to tell you, man, I didn't even, I wasn't perceiving it.

Starting point is 00:46:56 She said, oh my God. And she pulled me to the side. She said, Terry, you're different. Man, I'm sorry. I mean, just even going back to that moment, I was like, what? She was like, Terry, you're different. You changed. You changed.

Starting point is 00:47:17 And it hit me. And this is years later. This is years into the therapy. You know, years into constantly working on myself. And my behavior started to change. I'm going to go fast forward a little bit to 2017 is when I think I believe what was crazy. going through it last time we talked, but I talked about the time my agent assaulted me at a party in Hollywood. And the whole thing was, I mean, it was so degrading. And so, I mean, I pushed him off. I was like, what is your problem? I don't know what his problem was. I think he was on, he was high or whatever. I don't know what he was doing, but it was, all I could say is this, here's this guy. He's the head of the motion picture department

Starting point is 00:48:10 at William Morris Endeavor, my own agency. And he grabs my crotch in the middle of this party. And I'm going to get off me. What the hell are you doing? Now, my first instinct, because what I'd done my whole life is to put people on their head. And I could have killed this guy. I don't even think that there's anybody who would even doubt my ability to murder this man. You know, it's like, that's not the question here. But I remember my promise. And I remember my therapy, and I remembered the water. I remembered that I was different. And I said, you know what? The whole phrase responsibility is just that, the ability to respond. I can choose

Starting point is 00:49:08 how I'm going to act in this way. And I went against decades of programming and said, no, no. I grabbed my wife's hand and we walked out. Now, Tim, I'm going to tell you, I got in the car. I was going to drive the car right back to the club. I'm trying to like terminate. You know what I mean? Again, the movie never stopped. The revenge movie was still there, Tim.

Starting point is 00:49:36 I was going to turn around and drive right through the front door and just start blazing on everybody. I was like, that was in my head. But I kept driving. And I remember not on everybody. I was like, that was in my head. But I kept driving. And I remember not even seeing where I was going. And I ended up in the driveway. And I remember my wife's voice echoing over and over. She said, I'm proud of you, Terry. I'm proud of you, Terry. I'm proud of you. Because she said was there she saw the whole thing she said I'm so proud of you I'm so proud of you and it kept me

Starting point is 00:50:10 and it held me man and now when I say it saved my life the question is is would anyone who believed me had I knocked this guy out

Starting point is 00:50:22 that's the question I like to give to anybody. I could have said, yeah, he did this and whatever. And everyone would have looked at me like, wait a minute, he's ahead of William Morris. That makes no sense. Why would he do that? And you knocked him out because you were angry about something.

Starting point is 00:50:43 There you are, a super big, muscular, angry Black man who probably got pissed off, probably was drinking too much. And I don't drink at all. But everyone would have had a picture of what happened that night that I would not have been able to overcome at all. And like I said, I even asked the head of William Morris, I asked Ari Emanuel, I said, man, if I'd have knocked him out, would you have had any mercy on me? And he said, no, Terry, we wouldn't. We wouldn't. And I was like, damn it. This is the world we live in. And think about this. When I look at the jails that are full right now of young black men, old black men, how many were baited? How many were pulled? How many were tricked into reacting in a way? How many were baited into turning that chessboard over? And it's so easy because again, it's the revenge movie. It's so easy because that's what you're supposed to do.

Starting point is 00:51:56 Let me tell you, right now in our community, in the black community, there is an expectation that if anybody calls you nigger, you knock them out. That's the reaction. I mean, this was told to me many, many times. And it's told to each other, like, man, there are videos on TikTok about when it happens, you see it. Somebody calls somebody a nigger. And all of a sudden, you knock the guy out no matter what. But the thing is, and the thing that hit me, and it hit me hard, was that I would only really be offended if I felt I was a nigger. But there's no such thing as a nigger. So why would you offend me?

Starting point is 00:52:47 See, I had to examine all of these things. It's like calling Bill Gates broke. He would look at you and laugh. Like, okay, you know what I mean? And so if anybody ever called me nigger, I can look at you and go, no, that's not it. And I can count it to ignorance instead of it being a bait and a switch and a trigger in order for someone to get me into a position that would make me vulnerable. And let me tell you, Tim, this stuff is tough. This is why I call the book tough,

Starting point is 00:53:28 because it's hard to do. It's very, very hard. I want to dive into, I'm actually going to pull up a couple of paragraphs about the book, because I've been looking forward to this conversation for many reasons. And the title for folks, just so they get the idea, Tough, My Journey to True Power. So I want to read just an abbreviated two paragraphs and then launch into a question about this. So, from Brooklyn Nine-Nine star Terry Crews, the deeply personal story of his lifelong obsession with strength and how after looking for it in all the wrong places, he finally found it. Now, there are several paragraphs, but I'm going to leave those for now and come to the

Starting point is 00:54:09 last that I have in this little blurb, which is with tough cruise journey of transformation offers a model for anyone who considered themselves a tough guy in quotation marks, but feels unfulfilled. Anyone struggling with procrastination or self-sabotage and anyone ready to achieve true lasting self-mastery. So let me combine that, and I apologize for the long question, but it will have a question mark at the end of it. A quotation that I love that I believe you also love, which is from Ralph Waldo Emerson, which is, God will not have his work made manifest by cowards. And the reason I bring that up is that my experience also just being male and priding myself on having certain characteristics or developing

Starting point is 00:54:53 certain types of strength is that you don't want to be perceived as a coward. You don't want to perceive yourself as a coward. So how do you think about the, and I think the reason many people, many men, let's just say, respond hyper aggressively in different situations is to prove to themselves and others that they're strong and not weak. So how do you, and this might sound like a funny question, but sort of demonstrate strength, think about strength so that you don't have that self-perception. Maybe that's a bad question, but I'd love to just see where that goes. Because if someone, I feel like for someone to have the ability to walk away, they need to have supreme confidence on some level in their own strength or maybe that self-perception.

Starting point is 00:55:44 So I'd love to hear you speak to any of that in any direction that might make sense no i understand i listen i understand your question because that was the conundrum that i dealt with we even when my wife challenged me on this stuff i was like but what if somebody does this and you know and and um the thing is, is that toughness in a supremely hyper-masculine world is about how hard can you give a punch. But what I found is that there's a toughness in a right kind of world is how you take them. There's two ways. To be a great boxer, you have to learn how to take them. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:56:27 The greatest boxers in the world took punches. Yeah. You have a glass jaw. You know, I mean, you can have the hardest swing of all time. I mean, I look at the,

Starting point is 00:56:41 um, all the fight fans out there. When you look at Foreman Ali and all the punches he took, I would never recommend anybody go through that. But what I say is how that right there is a sign. To me, there's another toughness that involves endurance. I guess that's the phrase, endurance, which is not a super fast two-minute, three-minute event. You know, it's long. It's long-term. It's how much can you take?

Starting point is 00:57:20 I love, love, love Viktor Frankl and his story. And I've probably read everything that he's ever put out. And the endurance that this man put up with in the Nazi concentration camps, as he watched all his friends die, his family died, his wife. And he came out saying yes to life. I said, man, that's the kind of endurance that transcends. And I think that it's truly, truly one of the things where that level of toughness is where I want to be. Because this is another thing. The world really, really determines winners way too early.

Starting point is 00:58:13 They just do. I mean, and it's always celebrated. I mean, the valedictorian of your high school. But most of these people don't end up winning long term. You know what I mean? It's like whoever's winning at a young age, it's like, wait a minute. I think we need to look at the people who over time have displayed success and really displayed, just have seen the most of life and seen all the lumps

Starting point is 00:58:42 and been through all the things and what have they been through, that's where you get your real examples. I am a results-oriented person. Whereas when I see how most of the world celebrates just instant wins. You know what a thing, Tim, I like to call it the sportification of our culture. Things have been sportified. And this is where it goes back to even our last conversations when I say how I feel that competition is the opposite of creativity. Yeah, this is so key. I highlighted that when I reviewed our first conversation. I'd love for you to just elaborate on that.

Starting point is 00:59:21 I will, because it's something that I've been challenged on. People are like, but without competition, you'll never get better. And you got to have competition. You got to get... And I said, no, you don't. You do not have to compete with other human beings. Now, the thing is, you don't need competition, but you do need resistance. Two different things. The fact that you get up is a resisting, it's, you're going to face resistance going outside. The wind is fighting you. You know, when you, if you plant something, weeds are automatically grow, they grow. Anything good is attacked. You have to build a house. Everything is so easy for entropy to happen, but everything that's worth something has to be built, has to be designed, has to be created,

Starting point is 01:00:14 and you automatically have resistance. But competition, however, I think, imagine if the world had evolved through competition. There would only be one set of people. Doesn't work that way. The world evolved through collaboration. That's how I feel. Society evolved. That's how humanity evolved.

Starting point is 01:00:40 It's all through collaboration. And again, that revenge movie, that whole thing that we live, it's about competition. It's about putting me on top. And now I'm on top and I got to cancel everybody else. And so-and-so, you got to go down. And I am the winner and you're the loser. And it's a sportification. It's like, I won, I beat everybody. I'm the best in the world today. It's king of the hill, but someone's coming to kick you off, you know? And when you live those rules, it's kind of like, if you, if you go your whole life, canceling everybody, you eventually have to cancel yourself because you're not perfect. You know what I mean? It's like, one thing that gets me, man, Hollywood loves to point the fingers at everybody. Hollywood, at the Academy Awards, it actually canceled itself, which blew my mind. The standing ovation after the assault, everyone was sitting there at home like, what? You canceled yourself. This is crazy. And you realize, wait a minute.

Starting point is 01:01:49 Now, when I go into collaboration, when you realize that the world is a house, and this is the way guys like to play, where it's like, hey, man, I'm on my side of the house. I got the kitchen. The kitchen is mine. I can cook whatever I want. And they're flaunting it. Like, I got all this kitchen and it's all mine when other guys like well check it out i'm on this side of the house i have the bathroom i could take a shower i'm clean i'm good well tim eventually the guy in the kitchen's gotta use the bathroom and the guy in the bathroom's gotta use the kitchen you see what i'm saying like now this is the problem because the bathroom's got to use the kitchen. You see what I'm saying? Now, this is the problem, because if it's a sport, who won? Who won? Today, the guy with the bathroom, but tomorrow, the guy with the kitchen, and it's like, this is a phrase I love to use. And there was a lot being said. I said things about what was going on with Black Lives Matter, what was going on with a lot of our culture during this whole time. My issue was that any movement that doesn't start with reconciliation, I don't want any part of.

Starting point is 01:03:03 We have to reconcile. We have to reconcile. We have to reconcile men to women. We have to reconcile black to white. We have to reconcile Republican to Democrat. We have to reconcile. That's the first rule. Because if we don't, what you're doing is postponing a war. That's all you're doing.

Starting point is 01:03:26 It's postponing it. It's a matter of, okay, you know, we strike today and we'll have to wait and then we'll get our bearings together and we'll strike again later. And then they come get you and you come get them. But with reconciliation, there's an agreement. With reconciliation, there's an agreement. With reconciliation, there's an understanding. With reconciliation is peace. Wherever you are reconciled, there's going to be peace. And I knew, and I got in a lot of trouble at the time for talking about, hey, I decide to unite with good people, black and white, no matter the race, no matter the color, no matter the creed, no matter the ideology. I said, I am going to

Starting point is 01:04:13 unify with good people. And I was really put through the wringer for that, but I feel really good about it because I made my stand in the middle of a lot of name calling, a lot of people who wanted to fight. And listen, I understood the anger. I understood it. I was that guy. But I realized if we just turn over the chessboard every time, we're not going to get anywhere. You know what I mean? It's like these kind of things have to be, there's no winning until we reconcile. There's no, sometimes you got to stop playing the game. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:04:54 And when I say a game, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You have to walk off the court and say, we're not playing today. Now we're going to work together. One thing that has always impressed me about you and our interactions and looking back at your history and certainly in our first conversation, we talked a lot about your art and your ability and many, many sort of chapters of life spent with one foot in the

Starting point is 01:05:23 art world, which we won't get into right now, but people can really take a look at this very closely and they should. And also from the segwaying from playing professional sports, then to say entertainment and then folding in the design elements, you're very good at questioning the rules of the game and choosing new games to play. And I think it really highlights a number of things, one of which is your ability to choose creativity over competition. Like Terry Crews is a category of one. And if you create a category of one, it's kind of blue sky and you can create the rules of the game that you want to participate in, as opposed to constantly climbing hill after hill, depending on who offended you or upset you that day to go through like the vengeance marathon, which is not just an exhausting way to live, but it's also a very incremental way to succeed in any given field. So I just wanted to say that I spot that pattern over and over again in you, and I admire it a lot.

Starting point is 01:06:33 Thank you so much for that. Just to elaborate on your point, that's what bothered me so much about what James Watson alluded to, because now race was a competition. And I was like, you need each other. We all, we need everyone. And if you make a competition out of it about this race is smarter than the other, do the genes and this kind of things. I was like, man, what are you talking about? Think about the musical greatness that Black culture has brought in. I mean, that's a whole nother kind of intelligence. There's several ways to be intelligent. You know what I'm saying? And I'll go,

Starting point is 01:07:16 you can't do what Thelonious Monk did. You know what I mean? You can't redo that. It's one of these things where you look at John Coltrane and you go, my God, how do you even, you can't even put math on that. It's kind of like, how did you create that? It's another level of intelligence that we don't understand. But if you create this game that everybody has to play, and then you determine the winners. And I said,ley, I think his name was, who really came out with some very racist things about just about the ability to learn computers and Black people and this whole thing. And I just go, man, these guys, that self-righteousness, you can't, but this is another thing.

Starting point is 01:08:26 And this is what I had to address. I've seen Black people get the same way about what they have. And they go, we are more gifted in this, and we're more gifted in that. And I said, man, all of that is the biggest mistake you can ever make because that level of self-righteousness will allow you to be extremely cruel to anybody else. You can't feel wrong because you don't think you're wrong. And you can't even hear what people are saying. And it's so dangerous and so insidious that you have to call it out like

Starting point is 01:09:07 a cancer. It's almost like a growth that can grow on any movement, anything. Because most things start out with people with great intentions. You got to agree. I mean, most things, most churches, most events, most movements, most things. And then all of a sudden people are in Guyana and drinking Flavorade with Jim Jones. And it's like, what happened? There was a moment when things twisted and it's a tragedy. And I don't want to see that. I was in a Christian cult in college. It was nuts. But you see how, just because you have great intentions, if they're not checked, if they're not balanced, if you don't really get that self-righteousness out of there and start at day one every day, you're going to be on the wrong path.

Starting point is 01:09:57 And this is where I am. I'm constantly learning, constantly saying, be teachable, man, be teachable. It's so wild because I'm going to give you a crazy, crazy story. Really funny. I'm doing my first year of America's Got Talent and I'm loving it. I'm doing my thing and I wear these beautiful suits and outfits and the whole thing. And I love this whole thing. You know, I'm Mr. Creative. I'm like, oh my God, I got these great shoes. I got this great thing. And we had this thing, we had a suit that we had a belt on the outside of it. It was really unique and kind of unique, you know, real high fashion. Well, I decided I'm going to go on the show. I'm going to do this. And the NBC rep is like, uh, Terry, could you just take the belt off? I was like, oh, really? You talking to me? I was like, hey, man,

Starting point is 01:10:48 you know who I am? It was like, I am your show. I am the host of this show. I can wear whatever the hell I want to wear. Tim, it was like that. I switched into this like, what? How dare you talk to me like that? And dude, and it was wild because I was with my representatives and the people and they were like, you don't have to change it. You don't have to change whatever you want. Yeah, man, you don't have to do that. Just go out there anyway. Go out. Just do what you want.

Starting point is 01:11:18 And all of a sudden it hit me, Tim. It said, hey, man, dude, you're driving their car. NBC is their truck. That's their car. They don't want the rims to spin. Take the damn rims off, man. It's like, dude, why are you flipping on a belt? It was like, man, humble yourself. Relax. Because, dude, these are the boss. I said, it's their show. It's not my show. And I said, oh my God, I was that close to pulling this arrogant move where I was just going to go do whatever I wanted anyway. And it probably would have put everything, my whole future in jeopardy. And I took the belt off. The show went great. The NBC rep was like, thank you, Terry. Because a lot of times bosses just want to be heard.

Starting point is 01:12:14 And the show was awesome. And I realized how close I came off one arrogant move to losing probably one of the best jobs I ever had. Because it starts there. It's not one big giant move. It's always one little thing. And then it grows and grows and grows. And I said, man,

Starting point is 01:12:34 you got to start at day one every day, Terry. So it's, it's hard, hard lessons, man. Like I said, this is tough.

Starting point is 01:12:43 It's tough stuff. It's tough. Hence the title of the book. You know, it made me think also about the example, the metaphor you used earlier of walking outside and the wind is fighting you, right? Like maybe that's just the wind. Like that encounter is just the wind. It's not someone attacking you or insulting your manhood or it's just the wind in some cases. Right. And I've taken a lot of notes in this conversation for myself. I'm really looking forward to the book. And I also feel like

Starting point is 01:13:14 this balance that, that you've described, you know, I think especially for not exclusively for, but I think often for a lot of the men listening will be one that comes up a lot it's like how do you find a place for male strength if you feel like that has sort of been removed from society how do you develop not just the self-perception but the capability of being strong having that endurance, that resilience, sort of defining strength in a way that isn't abusive and corrosive. And I also wanted to just mention, because you brought up his name, Thelonious Monk. And one of my favorite quotes is actually from Thelonious Monk. And I wanted to bring it up because I think you exemplify it by constantly

Starting point is 01:14:06 revisiting who you are starting at day one, asking yourself, not just who is Terry Crews, but like, who does Terry Crews want to be? And the quote is, a genius is the one most like himself. I just think there is so much depth in that quote. That's Thelonious Monk. A genius is the one most like himself. Of course, that could apply to herself. But every day is day one, like you said. That's right. That's right. I love it.

Starting point is 01:14:35 I know we're coming up on time, Terry. The new book, people can find it wherever books are sold. Tough subtitle, My Journey to True Power. I highly recommend people check it out. People can find you wherever books are sold tough subtitle my journey to true power i highly recommend people check it out people can find you on social media at terry cruz on twitter instagram and then on facebook real terry cruz is there anything else that you'd like to say any other comments questions complaints that you'd like to add before we wrap up? Man, first of all, I just always, always enjoy talking to you, Tim.

Starting point is 01:15:08 Let me tell you, this 90 minutes went like, phew. It went so fast. I can't even. It went quickly. It went quickly. But I just want to thank you for letting me share my heart, man. What's wild is I tend to get misunderstood sometimes. And a lot of that is because of,

Starting point is 01:15:27 you know, the ability to take things out of context. And I thank you for letting me talk so that it's in context. So you can see where it's coming from and where it ended, you know? Yeah, for sure. When I see the future of what this world is, I'm very hopeful. I am an eternal optimist. And I see we get a lot has been said about getting things wrong and everybody making mistakes and this kind of thing. But my thing is these errors can push you into better things. One thing I like quote that I heard that I love that got me through the pandemic is that sometimes your greatest hopes

Starting point is 01:16:12 are destroyed to prepare you for something better. And when you see your hope being dashed, people get disheartened. But I like to see it sometimes as you're being prepared for something better for what is next. And I truly, truly think that we can have that better. And I really do. And I'm not a cynical, this is another thing, you know, a lot of comedians tend to get a cynicism and this whole kind of thing. And I've always resisted that. I'm at war with cynicism. I've decided to be positive and be hopeful and believe the best about every human being and count a lot of this as a lot of negativity as ignorance. And until people can figure it out,

Starting point is 01:17:05 I'm here for you until I figure it, because I haven't even figured it out. You see what I mean? So we're all on this journey because I can tell you 20 years ago, oh man, I was among the ignorant. You know, like, oh, I could easily be making excuses and the whole thing.

Starting point is 01:17:22 And that's why I have so much empathy for everyone out there, everyone anywhere, because it's just a matter of time. So thank you for letting me share my heart. Thank you, Terry. And I want to say to everybody listening, there are many forces in the world that want you to be apathetic. And I invite you to also be at war within yourself against cynicism because it is crippling. And what a great way to phrase it. Terry, thank you so much. Again, everyone check out Tough My Journey to True Power. You can find links to everything we discussed in the show notes at Tim.blog forward slash podcast. from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend?

Starting point is 01:18:28 Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I them, and then I share them with

Starting point is 01:19:06 you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog slash Friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog slash Friday, drop in your email, and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening. This episode is brought to you by Allform. If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you've probably heard me talk about Helix Sleep and their mattresses, which I've been using since 2017. I have two of them upstairs from where I'm sitting at this moment. Helix has gone beyond the bedroom and started making sofas. They launched a company called Allform, A-L-L-F-O-R-M, and they're making premium, customizable sofas and chairs shipped right to your door at a fraction

Starting point is 01:19:50 of the cost of traditional stores. So I'm sitting in my living room right now, and it's entirely Allform furniture. I've got two chairs, I've got an ottoman, and I have an L-sectional couch. I'll come back to that. You can pick your fabric. They're all spill, stain, and scratch resistant. The sofa color, the color of the legs, the sofa size, the shape to make sure it's perfect for you in your home. Also, all form arrives in just three to seven days and you can assemble it all yourself in a few minutes. No tools needed. I was quite astonished by how modular and easy these things fit together, kind of like Lego pieces. They've got armchairs, love seats, all the way up to an eight seat sectional, so there's something for everyone.

Starting point is 01:20:27 You can also start small and kind of build on top of it if you wanted to get a smaller couch and then build out on it, which is actually in a way what I did, because I can turn my L-sectional couch into a normal straight couch and then have a separate ottoman in a matter of about 60 seconds. It's pretty rad. So I mentioned I have all of these different things in this room. I use the natural leg finish, which is their lightest color, and I dig it. I mean, I've been using these things hours and hours and hours every single day. So I am using what I am sharing with you guys. And if getting a sofa without trying it in-store sounds risky, you don't need to worry.

Starting point is 01:21:02 All Form sofas are delivered directly to your home with fast, free shipping, and you get 100 days to decide if you want to keep it. That's more than three months, and if you don't love it, they'll pick it up for free and give you a full refund. Your sofa frame also has a forever warranty that's literally forever. So check it out. Take a look. They've got all sorts of cool stuff to choose from. I was skeptical, and it actually worked.

Starting point is 01:21:23 It worked much better than I could have imagined. And I'm very, very happy. So to find your perfect sofa, check out allform.com slash Tim. That's A-L-L-F-O-R-M dot com slash Tim. Allform is offering 20% off all orders to you, my dear listeners, at allform.com slash Tim. Make sure to use the code Tim at checkout. That's allform.com slash Tim and use code TIM at checkout. That's allforum.com slash TIM and use code TIM at checkout. This episode is brought to you by Gravity, makers of the original weighted blanket. Listeners of this podcast know I place sleep

Starting point is 01:21:54 at the very top of my list for optimizing health, energy, and performance. I've had onset insomnia and all sorts of sleep issues almost my entire life. It does not come easy for me, which is why I'm always experimenting and adding new sleep aids to my roster of experimentation. This is currently my number one priority because it's the basis, the foundation for everything else. If that's in place,

Starting point is 01:22:17 it helps everything else. If it's not in place, it hurts everything else. One of my new favorites is the gravity weighted blanket. My girlfriend is also a fan. You might recognize gravity from some of my interviews on this podcast with superhuman athletes. A number of them use gravity weighted blankets and have mentioned them, which is how I picked up the thread and ended up testing them out. 72% of gravity users have reported better, more restful sleep, and 76% have reported falling asleep faster and feeling more rested in the morning. For me, the falling asleep faster is the key piece.

Starting point is 01:22:53 Better, deeper, uninterrupted sleep is key for brain function and cognitive abilities, as well as everything from cardiovascular health to immune function. You know this. And if you do any form of training, it's also the cornerstone of recovery. Gravity is the leader in weighted blanket technology. They have all sorts of other products as well, which you can check out. And they have been named the best weighted blanket by CNN, Business Insider, Good Housekeeping, and many more. And now, Gravity is offering you guys, my listeners, a special discount. Order a blanket of any size or weight and receive 15% off of your order. Just go to gravityblankets.com slash Tim and the discount

Starting point is 01:23:31 will be automatically applied. That's 15% off at gravityblankets.com slash Tim. Get your own original weighted blanket, gravityblankets.com slash Tim.

The Tim Ferriss Show - #587: Terry Crews on Masculinity, True Power, Therapy, and Resisting Cynicism

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.