The Tim Ferriss Show - #723: In Case You Missed It: January 2024 Recap of "The Tim Ferriss Show"

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Starting point is 00:01:35 So easy peasy. Again, that's tim.blog forward slash Friday. And thanks for checking it out. If the spirit moves you. Optimal minimum. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I ask you a question? and thanks for checking it out. If the spirit moves you. Tim Ferriss Show. which serves as a recap of the episodes from the last month. It features a short clip from each conversation in one place, so you can jump around, get a feel for both the episode and the guest, and then you can always dig deeper by going to one of those episodes. View this episode as a

Starting point is 00:02:35 buffet to whet your appetite. It's a lot of fun. We had fun putting it together. And for the full list of the guests featured today, see the episode's description probably right below wherever you press play in your podcast app. Or as usual, you can head to tim.blog.com and find all the details there. Please enjoy. First up, Greg McKeown, author of Essentialism, The Disciplined Pursuit of Less, and Effortless, Make It Easier to Do What Matters Most. So you have that farewell with your daughter, sending her off to Manaus, which I've always wanted to visit, but that's a separate story. So where do you go from there? Because people have these realizations. Maybe they go, I have no idea. They go on a rafting trip with friends. They think to themselves, oh my God,

Starting point is 00:03:30 this was so nourishing. I deepened my relationships with three of my most cherished friends and I need to do more of this. But then it like sand through the fingers, slips away as they reenter their daily lives. And that's kind of it. Things get busy, things get crowded out. So what do you do or what did you do or what are you doing after you have that realization? Let me answer this in a conceptual way, first of all, right? Like why have all sorts of limitations that make focus challenging, that make prioritization challenging, that make relationships challenging. And all of us have our own mix of literally our DNA can predispose us to various weaknesses.

Starting point is 00:04:14 And so the key for me seems to have been, I have to build, I mean, the word gets overused, like build a system that's equal to that challenge. And so I have like a paper plan that I built and designed myself and keep adapting all the time. As soon as I learn, oh, that's kind of a weakness for me. I build something in and oh, that that's a tendency where I make trade-offs that not pleased with later. I build something in so that it acts on me. And this really is the whole idea of effortless, right? Like effortless

Starting point is 00:04:45 execution is I don't want to trust my weaknesses. I want to build a system that means my weaknesses become something like irrelevant. That's what I'm trying to build. So one of those things, like, I mean, literally physically, I take it with me everywhere. My personalized plan, I take everywhere, literally everywhere I go, I will have it. And so in it, I have the key relationships of my life, right? And that for me is very simple. That's my wife, Anna. That's our four children. They are the thousand Xs in my life. And then there is a select group of friends. And then there is a select group of friends. And then there's a much broader group of people that I also am building relationships and making sure I'm checking in on that really matter to me.

Starting point is 00:05:33 If I fail in those relationships, then probably everything's probably okay. But if I fail in my relationship with the thousand X's, it's like, no, nothing's okay. You're like, well, my wife and I, like, let me use that as an example. If I mean, it's an old saying, but it's like, if things are bad in your marriage, it doesn't matter how good anything else is. Nothing's good. And if everything's good in your marriage, like it doesn't matter how bad everything else is. Everything is, everything is good. It's like, this is so disproportionately important. And so I don't think I can separate my answer to your question without saying, yeah, it's actually the establishment building of this family that means there is a permanent system

Starting point is 00:06:16 in place to help me remember what matters and who matters. When do you revisit that? In other words, if you're carrying this with you everywhere and it seems like, and again, I'll just, I'll add in my thoughts and then you can refine as we go. But it seems like unlike a lot of folks, and this would include me, who probably start with what should I do, right? What should my priorities be? Seems like you are starting with who. And if you have this constant reminder which acts as a system i'm wondering how you use that system right because i think about my phone i have 1,379,000 making that up notes on my phone and i'm like oh i i this is so important i'm definitely going to come back and read this

Starting point is 00:06:59 and 99 of the time i never look at it. So how do you use this list of people? The way that my binder works, like the first section is all about direction, sort of, let's say essential intent for my whole life. Like what really, really matters. It's as succinct as possible. It's a few pages in total. That's always the place to begin, right? Because I want to come back and get centered in what I have come to learn is closest approximation to the purpose of it all. And I literally have to come back to it, right? Like you've heard the metaphor before, but you know, the idea of a flight is off track 90% of the time, like an airplane literally only gets to where it's supposed to get to at the time it's supposed to get there because it readjusts constantly along the way. And I feel like that myself.

Starting point is 00:07:50 So for example, I don't think that I'm better at being an essentialist than anybody else. I think if there's any advantage I've had in that journey, it's that I just really admit that I'm a non-essentialist easily. And so it's this idea, like there's only two kinds of people in the world. There are people who are lost and there are people who know they are lost. It's like, I know how easy it is for me to get lost. Never heard that. That's good. I'm looking that definitely. I will look properly at those few pages once a week, right? Like every Sunday morning, I will look through that. I will read through it. And that's scheduled. That's in your calendar. Yes. Yes. Sunday morning.

Starting point is 00:08:27 That's right. And, but, but then at other times through the week, if I feel that sensation, I know people feel this, you know, that just sort of feels a bit crazy. It's feeling just a bit frenetic and frantic. Like what? I just texted Anna yesterday, like, man, in the morning, I'm like, man, I just feel so lost. And I don't mean for the last six months. I mean, for the last half hour, what is, I don't feel so lost right now. Okay. That's right. That's the signal.

Starting point is 00:08:55 Go back, get centered, take a moment. What really is the intent? What matters in your life? Okay. Now from that, you know, and then you start designing your day. And I have some thoughts specifically about that, but you know, you're asking the year process, I guess you're asking my system. So that's once a week. Okay. So for per day, let's get to that. So I've come to call this the one, two, three method. I do not do it every day, man. I wish I was doing it every day,

Starting point is 00:09:21 but I do it more often than I don't do it. And it's simply this, and it has to be written down for me in paper and pen, like not in technology, free of technology. And I try now more often than not to have this power half an hour, right? Like where I don't go to text and email or apps or my phone for the first 30 minutes. And I do that. I haven't been doing great at that recently, but I still do that more often than I don't. And so in that, then instead of doing that, I'm in my planner and I'm literally writing what's the essential for today.

Starting point is 00:10:00 What's the one most essential today? Most important person, most important action for that person. Number two is I write two things that are essential but urgent. That's like, you know, it could be all sorts of things. Any, you know, whatever's got a deadline on it, finish this writing assignment by this deadline. It could be finish these financial things for, you know, retirement documentation, stuff that I don't really want to get to, but I know it's important and there's a deadline. And then the third thing is three things that are maintenance items, right? So that's just, I mean, that's anything that if I don't do it,

Starting point is 00:10:32 it's not important today, but if I don't do it, it will make life a lot harder later. It's like an effortless strategy. And so that's the one, two, three method, right? One essential, two things that essential and urgent, three maintenance items. Would you mind, Greg, giving me just some concrete examples so we can visualize what this looks like? They don't have to be real. I mean, they could be hypothetical. But just to give an example of what a one, two, three might look like. I'll just sort of talk through, as I talked through yesterday. So yesterday I was in California,

Starting point is 00:11:07 in LA or an event as doing a keynote. I had my oldest daughter, Grace, with me. So the, when I texted Anna, like, oh man, I'm just kind of feeling a bit lost. After I expressed that, I was like, okay, get focused. What is the essential for today? The number one thing. Oh, it's Grace is here. It's my relationship with Grace. focused. What is the essential for today? The number one thing, oh, it's grace is here. It's my relationship with grace. I need to make sure that we connect today, that we're not just with each other all day. I tried to travel with one of my children about 80% of the time for keynotes. And so that's built into the system, but you still have to be present and connected.

Starting point is 00:11:41 And so that was the priority. The two things that are essential and urgent, right? Like one of them, the keynote, right? That's coming up. And I don't really know how to phone it in on a keynote. And I certainly fear phoning it in because it's like such an opportunity missed. The thing is coming like that, that moment will arrive and you're going to be on stage. And it was for, there's 500 people. It's the non-trivial event and all the senior leaders of the organization. And that was one of the key urgent tasks. And then the next urgent task was to do with some family members who are, I won't get into the precise details of it, but there's some health challenges involved. So I've sort of taken it upon myself to say, okay, how could I maybe kind of be a little bit of a coach,

Starting point is 00:12:29 which is not really the natural relationship I have with them, but I'm risking it because I think it really matters. And they seem to have responded really positively. And so I wanted to keep that going. That would be the next thing. And then of course, maintenance items from there. Maintenance items literally included, I was in Florida a couple of

Starting point is 00:12:45 days before California. So like literally I have to unpack everything, put everything back in its place, make sure that that's just in order so that you don't get behind on those things. I needed to respond to a key email about a contract that we've been in negotiation with over the last couple of months. That would be an item of maintenance. So when you're talking about the few pages that you would review on Sunday mornings, what would be an example of something from those few pages? Because I feel like this would be very helpful for me in the sense that I feel like I am pretty good at staying on task. I'm pretty good at keeping the important things in mind and majoring in the major things. However, there are certainly times when and weeks when I get a little lost and end up doing a lot of

Starting point is 00:13:32 minor things. And at the end of the week, couldn't really point to what I've achieved. What might be some examples from those few pages, if you don't mind sharing? I have two pages at the beginning that I don't share anywhere, but it's very carefully worded. The highest expression of what I think the fullest manifestation of my life can be. It's not goals. It's beyond that. It's like who you can be, what your most important relationships can look like. And, and it's sacred, right?

Starting point is 00:14:09 Like that's how I feel about that. And so that's all the most important centering part of it, because literally, if you don't get clear on that, nothing else matters in the system, right? If you execute superbly on things that end up not being what your life needed to be about, then it doesn't matter. Efficiently doing what should not be done at all, of course, is like, it's a form of madness, right? Like it's, you're speedily going the wrong direction.

Starting point is 00:14:40 Next up, Dr. Nolan Williams, Associate Professor at the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford University School of Medicine and Director of the Stanford Brain Stimulation Lab. maybe in her 50s, 60s, female in Bay Area, who has suffered from bipolar disorder much of her life and pretty successfully treated for the mania side of things over the years at a psychiatrist taking care of that part in Marin and happened to slip into this pretty severe depressive episode a couple of years back. This has been maybe like four or five years now. And her psychiatrist had actually gone to see a talk that I gave at this Mood Disorders Day like the year before. We were talking, it was really early on when we were working on a rapid acting neurostimulation approach. So the psychiatrist had heard the talk and then her patient kind of fell into this really

Starting point is 00:15:41 bad suicidal depression. And so she reached out to me to treat her. And I got on the phone. I'll never forget. It was like a Wednesday. And I got on the phone with her psychiatrist and she was telling me symptomatically how bad off she was. And I was like, I don't think we can treat her outpatient. She's like way too ill. I think she needs to go to the inpatient hospital. So essentially gave her some information on how to do that. So I see her some information on how to do that. So I see her the next morning and she's in really bad shape. What does that mean?

Starting point is 00:16:10 Like, how did that show up? When people are at the level where they like kind of definitively need to go into the hospital, they're not really totally communicative anymore. And they've got some cognitive issues sometimes. And so in her case, you know, she couldn't look you in the eyes. You look at the ground and she was doing this rocking thing, which you can see in pretty severe depression. It's kind of this catatonia overlap symptoms,

Starting point is 00:16:32 you know, I mean, she's like at the kind of the very end of the spectrum, one of the highest severity patients we've ever treated. So she was like a score of 50 on the moderate side of 60, like very, very severe. Right.

Starting point is 00:16:44 And just rocking and not really talking. And the husbands were counting everything and she had bipolar one. So she was hypomanic, I think, or manic like two weeks before and then dropped into this very, very severe depression. So it was her daughter and the husband and they're sitting in the room with me and they want me to treat her. And I say, say listen like it's friday we go monday to friday like you have to find a way basically to keep her well from now until monday and that means and by well you mean safe like preventing self-harm yeah exactly so keep her not having a suicide attempt basically from now until monday she's very suicidal and i said you're gonna have to like

Starting point is 00:17:22 take every knife. I don't think any guns, but gun chemical, like scissors, everything out of the house, the whole, all of it has to go. And you guys have to be on like a 24 hour, you know, watch until Monday. And so, uh, Monday morning rolls around and we, uh, we bring her in and the craziest thing, we had like a repair on the motor threshold coil, which is the coil you use to get calibrated on the intensity, and it shorted out the device and blew the capacitor bank up on the first stimulator. Blew your flux capacitor.

Starting point is 00:17:57 Yeah, at like 7 a.m. And I mean, you can't imagine how stressful that was. So we had a second machine. I'll tell you about this later we were running this you know trait hypnotizability modulation study and it was over at the scanner so it was like pretty far away and this thing's way like 100 pounds so i had to send my team over there run over there and grab it bring it over and luckily we were able to kind of get her going and treat her with the second machine. She was in really, really bad shape that morning.

Starting point is 00:18:25 And by 5 o'clock that afternoon, she was basically normal. And the next morning, she was totally zeroed out and completely normal. Meaning no suicidality. Meaning no depression, no nothing. She looked like any person walking the street, totally normal. And that was in 24 hours. And we've seen this with bipolar patients quicker. It'll happen really quick for like a bipolar one patient.

Starting point is 00:18:50 You can get it done and sometimes in a day. Just for clarity, by get it done and don't worry people listening, we're going to define terms and get into all this. But you're talking about accelerated TMS. Yeah, we're talking about accelerated TMS. Our rapid acting neurostimulation approach, we're able to get people out of these states and into normal mood. You know, and in short periods of time, generally,

Starting point is 00:19:10 like 2.6 days on average for major depression patients, but it's quicker with bipolar. We've seen especially with bipolar 1 patients. So she was totally out of it in 24 hours. I remember it was like right around July 4th or something. And so we, you know so the whole team left. I guess we'll talk about caffeine later, too. So my wife and I are big Philz Coffee fans.

Starting point is 00:19:31 And so I'll never forget this either. So we go down to the Philz Coffee in Palo Alto. After I saw them, I'll never forget it. Clark Lehman, her husband, also went to Philz. Didn't know I was going to be there. And I look over, and this guy's just kind of staring at me. And I was like, hey, how are you? Good to see you again.

Starting point is 00:19:48 I just saw the guy like 10 minutes ago. And he's like, I still don't understand what happened. And it makes sense, right? Like to take somebody from the worst you've ever seen them mood-wise to like normal in such a short period of time was remarkable for him. And it ended up being that after that period, they actually went out and really were helpful with a lot of the philanthropy that led to the trials being funded

Starting point is 00:20:12 and ultimately the clearance. And Clark and Deirdre really were advocates and have continued to be advocates for this to kind of get it out into the world. And it was totally based off of that experience of him feeling helpless and going from that to feeling, it was totally based off of that experience of feeling him feeling helpless, you know, and going from that to feeling like it was all solved. And I think she went maybe a year completely asymptomatic, ended up needing to get retreated again at some point,

Starting point is 00:20:34 but gets like these little touch-ups here and there and is able to stay well ongoing in depression. As they tell me, depression's not her problem anymore. And so that's good. She's a great illustrative case of what this can do and I think what the promise of it can be. Next up, Noah Kagan, founder of AppSumo.com and author of Million Dollar Weekend, the surprisingly simple way to launch a seven-figure business in 48 hours. Just to share another story of that, I noticed through all of my work that I was like, I like deals, I like marketing, and I think the software thing is going to be big. How do I do this very quickly to find out if this is something people actually want?

Starting point is 00:21:24 And that's the reason you have Weekend, because you have 52 chances to change it. If it doesn't work one, guess what? You have another one and another one. And at least understand the process. You're so good at this. You're so good at thinking about that. So how do I experiment? And so with AppSumo, I was like, I think there's something with these three things.

Starting point is 00:21:37 Let me try to do it in a weekend. I cold emailed Imgur, this college kid, said, hey, I want to do software deals. I'll pay $7 for everyone I sell. For him, he's like, I'll get free money. That's cool. So a cold email. It was just, and it's funny. How did you find the college kid to cold email? Because I went to Imgur.com. Oh, sorry. Yeah. No, no, not a random college. I thought that was some like name from Azerbaijan. Okay. No, no, no, no. The website.

Starting point is 00:21:59 Imgur.com. So I knew that the problem with software deals at good prices, I knew that I'm a Redditor and I was like, well, that's where the customers are, and then that's who the customers are and where they are. And I was like, they want Imgur. That was the most popular product at the time. That was all over it. So basically, cold emailed Alan, just alan at imgur.com. I was like, hey, I want to promote you.

Starting point is 00:22:17 $7 per deal. You get free money. It's no cost to you. And then I was like, well, I can get this posted on Reddit. And I even cold emailed the founders of Reddit and was able to get them to give me free ads yeah how did you do that just out of curiosity i know why would they give you free ads i don't really know actually that's bullshit no no what was the pitch though the pitch was twofold one i said i knew someone they knew so i worked with chris smoke when i started previous companies

Starting point is 00:22:42 he knew chris slow that's where chris smokes was so so when you're sending an email it's really strong subject line or any messages like referred by blah at least you're going to get an open reply said hey i'm working by the way don't bullshit that because you'll get fact checked i just got someone fact checked with me like jordan hart you know jordan harbinger yeah he's a good buddy of mine he fact checked someone who messaged him like hey noah kagan's working with you hit me and jordan messages me it's like of course immediately yeah i was like no i'm not yeah it was a little bit more than that basically someone who messaged him like, hey, Noah Kagan's working with me and Jordan messages me. It's like, are you working with this guy? Yeah. I was like, no, I'm not.

Starting point is 00:23:07 Yeah. It was a little bit more than that. Basically, I said, hey, I'd love to just treat you to lunch and share more what I'm working on. And so I took him to a pork store cafe in Haight. And I just shared what I was working on and said, I'm doing this idea for software deals. I want to focus on Reddit. I'm a huge Redditor. I've been a Redditor since 2006.

Starting point is 00:23:20 It's with Imgur. I'd love to see if you can give me free ads. There wasn't a bigger ask than that. Again, we come back full circle. It's because know i like asking a practice asking everyone can ask he's like sure crazy part of that story fast forward about six months i asked him again and he's like ten thousand dollars yeah but i highly appreciate chris and reddit for giving me that free it was they were just getting their ad platform out. Yeah. So it was a good chance.

Starting point is 00:23:46 Okay. That was a good chance for them to showcase something or have a case study that it worked well. So I launched it. I was like, if I can do 200 sales, this is obviously a little bit bigger than what I'm encouraging others. If I can get 200 sales within a very short time, this is it.

Starting point is 00:23:59 And let me just break down the website. I paid $48 to a guy named Muhammad, who I can still recommend to people to help me put a PayPal button on AppSumo.com. And I spent $12 on AppSumo.com, which I know I should have maybe done even not the website. But that PayPal button, people would, and I post on Reddit, hey, I've got a deal on Imgur Pro. Instead of $24, it's $12. And I gave Alan $7 immediately. That first $12 sale was the best, dude. That was so sweet. And I remember, and this is the thing people were like, well, how do I scale? I emailed the codes for every 200 person.

Starting point is 00:24:28 You know what my backend was? Gmail. I got the PayPal notification and then I sent him an email saying, thank you so much. Here's your code for Imgur Pro. What other deals do you want me to get? And that is what's led now to like a 100 person team.

Starting point is 00:24:40 And we have all these crazy products. We've launched on so many different things from AppSumo. We have, I think, a 20, 25-person engineering team. It started with literally manual Gmail codes. And so the concept there is just so fucking basic. I didn't let all these other things get in the way. Yeah, and also that super primitive back end that you're talking about,

Starting point is 00:25:00 highly manual, but high touch with the customer. Yes, yes. Gives you a lot of really valuable input. And even though we've been talking about the word scale is kind of a four-letter word, in one of the very first episodes of Masters of Scale that Reid Hoffman did, he interviewed Brian Chesky of Airbnb.

Starting point is 00:25:18 And it's a great episode. And one of the key tenets in the beginning for Airbnb was do things that don't scale. And those things tend to be highly manual, helping people take photographs of their places, and what they learned then led to a lot of what we've seen. Next up, Dr. Andy Galpin, Professor of Kinesiology and Co-Director of the Center for Sports Performance at California State University, Fullerton, and host of the new podcast, Perform. Last year slash this year, do you have a plan for supplementation? What I have done over the last, say, nine months, which has, and this is going to sound like a shameless plug because I'm involved with these

Starting point is 00:26:09 guys, but probably what I would do this ski season is I would have a never-ending supply of Maui Nui venison sticks, like the unsweetened, like no additional sugar. And that has proven for me to be just about the easiest way to get nutrient-dense 30 grams of protein in the morning. I can just throw those in my ski jacket, too. So that will probably take the place of eggs. Yeah. Also just for convenience. In terms of supplementation, I would say last year kept it pretty simple.

Starting point is 00:26:39 I would say I was taking magnesium, some electrolytes, generally magnesium in the morning. And then I went back and forth on creatine. I know that there are so many different benefits to creatine. I was cognizant of not wanting to carry too much weight, like additional water weight, if I was going to retain a lot more water. Oh, yep. So I used that intermittently.

Starting point is 00:27:00 I would often use that around cross-training, so if I was kind of going to the gym. Athletic ingredients, again, this can sound like a plug, but i've been using that stuff since 2000 whatever nine ten and supplementation we could say you know i could be brief here if you'd like but absolutely making sure magnesium is there magnesium is released in sweat at very low quantities but it's still enough when you sweat the amount that you're potentially oh yeah also with with skiing like i'm gonna sweat my ass off yeah i'll be working at very low quantities, but it's still enough when you sweat the amount that you're potentially going to be sweating. Also, with skiing, I'm going to sweat my ass off. I'll be working.

Starting point is 00:27:29 So you want to make sure that that stuff is high. Creatine is great. If you're going to use it, I wouldn't use it the way you did. I would use it or don't. So having it on certain days or not is probably not good. Make it daily or not. Yeah, because it takes a chronic effect for it to really start to matter unless you're going a really high dosage so i wouldn't be super concerned about the water retention aspect of it because it might even be a

Starting point is 00:27:51 plus yeah i was gonna say we're having a problem with that anyways right any recommendation if you try and it doesn't work you don't like it and what are we talking about it's like five grams a day or what are we that's the number that's the standard that's what everyone throws out but i would say the same thing of like like the protein yeah yeah like why candidly for guys our size it's fine i'm probably going higher i'm also never measuring creatine to be totally honest like i'm just taking big scoops and throwing it in there yeah like seeing what happens there's actually really interesting data on the more recent stuff the more interesting stuff on creatine is around bone health brain health and, and overall even mood.

Starting point is 00:28:27 Brain health is no joke. Yeah, but that's been 10 to 20 grams a day. I have experimented with that chronically and just looking at verbal, I mean it's… Recall, yeah. And also just like verbal acuity and stuff in podcasts. I mean I've looked at this somewhat and it's N of 1. It's just self-reporting, but for me it's pretty noticeable. You don't have to do end of one.

Starting point is 00:28:45 There's data. Yeah. There's tons of it out there. Nothing's perfect. But there's actually another review article just this week came out also on creatine and brain health. So whether you're looking at dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, stuff like that,

Starting point is 00:28:59 there's no perfect answer there, but you can see the data. Anything else you'd add to the list? The rest of it would be dependent upon your labs and your physiology, what we knew there. You could throw in, you're never going to be hurt for the most part, adding vitamin D. It's a very common one. You're going to be out in the sun all day. Well, half of my face will be out in the sun all day.

Starting point is 00:29:17 I'm not there. There'll be significant sun blockage, I hope. So, yeah, I did supplement with d last year yeah and fish oil i also supplemented with fish oil yeah could be a placebo who knows there's probably literature out there on this but i found it to seemingly help with sleep quite a bit those would be the standard kind of without knowing anything about you you throw in that cocktail you're talking about things that are fairly cheap yeah again relatively yeah they have very little cross-reaction unlike minerals yeah unlike even high doses vitamins you're playing a game there that you may want to be a bit careful of but things like vitamin d and things like meaning just unintended side unintended yeah

Starting point is 00:30:03 side effects yeah yeah you don't know what problem you're solving, really, and so you're just sort of throwing stuff in there. That can technically happen with anything, even vitamin D and heavy metals can be a concern there, but it's a very rare thing. So most of the time, you're fine. I feel comfortable saying most people can jump on that train, for all those, can be totally fine.

Starting point is 00:30:33 Last but not least, Chris Beresford-Hill, Chief Creative Officer of the Americas at BBDO Worldwide. So who is David and what does this mean and any other lessons learned or principles? So David is the Worldwide Chairman and Chief Creative Officer of BBDO. is David, and what does this mean, and any other lessons learned or principles? So David is the worldwide chairman and chief creative officer of BBDO. I worked for him for eight years, and I'm kind of not shy of saying he was the best boss I ever had. He was the best boss I ever had because he was very clear, and he was very consistent, and that's what you need in leadership. And so you could show him a bunch of work and he would tell you what he liked and what he chose right away. And that was that. And he didn't need to split hairs. He would come give you his response. And he knew that he would make a bigger impact in this giant company by

Starting point is 00:31:17 going around and saying, I think this is the most right thing, the most creative thing, the most interesting thing. And just go and do that and not be afraid to make decisions, create progress. And by the way, if he picked something that was wrong, whoop-dee-doo, we'd have to go back and do it again. Or maybe we had one that wasn't as good as it could have been, but he never inhibited progress. He always facilitated progress by doing that. Meaning sort of catalyzing some type of forward motion. Exactly. He never would say, let me take this back. Let me think about it.

Starting point is 00:31:47 Or let's pull more people into it. He would just give you these gut reads. And it always gave you permission to go forward. And it really taught that someone who's really pushing everyone and keeping everyone in motion just happens to always be at the center of so much. And that's why for that eight years, I mean, the agency was one of the most awarded in the world. And there was my little corner of the universe, but there was all these other corners.

Starting point is 00:32:13 And he just amplified himself by empowering his people and saying a lot of yes, sometimes a no, but he was always game to move forward. Were you able to emulate that at the time in some small way? Or is that something that you were only able to implement later as you had more and more direct reports? I used it. I used it then because BBO at that time was David's place. So David said to do it. David said, let's go. I don't think we ever got a look at an org chart or reporting structure. I don't think we ever knew that that carried muster, but a lot of us loved the decisions he was making. And so enough of us would constantly say, that's what David wants. And so whether or not that was be all end all, it became be all end all. And so we were all emboldened to make moves. I myself couldn't,

Starting point is 00:32:56 there wasn't much I could do with it at the time. In terms of making your own decisions. No, no. I was kind of probably working through my own process but it was invaluable later because you do see people that in a high creative role you've really gotta make things happen and you will see some people in very senior roles that really gild the lily and that really obsess over such a great expression it it is and and by the way the gilding the lily of of someone who's looking at a two-minute case study for an award show and changing the mix on the music eight times. And you're like, listen, it doesn't really matter. And there's times to craft the hell out of it, but there's also this step back. And I think in our industry and in creativity, fast decisions are really stepping back as opposed to

Starting point is 00:33:40 getting in the weeds. Can you say more about that? What I'd like to hear you riff on a little bit is how you think about fast decisions. This is a source of constant fascination for me. It's something I revisit a lot. To what extent do I prioritize speed and just catalyzing things happening versus honing, minimizing mistakes? I think that's what it comes down to for a lot of people. It's like, what error rate are you willing to accept? Is it 10%? I know it's hard to track these things, but is it like you're willing to accept a breakage of making the wrong call 10% of the time because the speed net over time is just a huge competitive advantage and good for what you're doing? That's a long question, but

Starting point is 00:34:25 with a fair amount of lead up, how do you think about that? I remember that at the end of the day, it's subjective. It's not mathematics. It's not mathematical. And so I've learned to trust myself. And I've learned that if you AB something too long, you're lost. So I think the more I get stuck in something, the more I realize I need to make a fast decision because I don't think obsession when you're really deciding go, no go, good idea, bad idea, excited about this, not excited about this. I don't think time is your friend. I think time pulls everything. It slows everything down. It takes the energy out of it.

Starting point is 00:35:01 So I think sometimes you just got to let it fly. And then, by the way, you can correct and you can change as you go. I mean, I've approved ads that wound up being completely different ads that we're really proud of. So that's the other thing is that nothing is totally fixed. It also strikes me that there are so many things, just pulling from my own experience, that get worse with time and more deliberation. Deals and just deal structures, negotiating, often, in my experience, the longer it takes, the more that is a harbinger of pain to come, or just a bad, wasteful outcome that ends up stalling out. There are so many things like that where it's like, okay, if there isn't

Starting point is 00:35:44 some speed to this, likely the outcome is going to be worse. For sure. Time kills all deals. Yeah. For sure. And it kills momentum and it kills energy and it takes people. So if you've got people going, if you need to take something offline for yourself, just know that their muscles are going to cool. They're going to take a break and they're going to restart. And many times, the wrong decision can become the right decision. And now here are the bios for all the guests. My guest today is a guest who is very relevant for me personally right now, Greg McKeown.

Starting point is 00:36:20 And he is relevant because he is easily one of my favorite thinkers on all things related to effectiveness, efficiency, and, at the end of the day, quality of life and keeping your priority or priorities top of mind so that you are laser-focused to do what really matters, the high-leverage things, which are sometimes the small things done with relentless focus that deliver incredibly, incredibly important outcomes. So let's get to it. This is a walk and talk with Greg McKeown. And overall, it is about how to find your purpose and master essentialism in 2024 or in the new year, if you're listening to this later. And the walk and talk format is something I wanted to experiment with because, let's face it, most of us sit too much. And if we consider sitting the new smoking on some level with its health implications, and I want to give credit to Kelly Starrett, who is also a multiple time podcast guest for, I believe, coining that expression, we should get out and walk more. Part of what makes us human, part of what enabled our brains to become these incredible machines they have become, which are powered on less electricity than a light bulb, by

Starting point is 00:37:30 the way, is walking. The fact that we perambulate, the fact that we walk historically much of the day. And I wanted to also contend with some back issues that I have that are exacerbated by extended sitting. And many different health issues are correlated to extended sitting. So this is a direct oppositional approach to perhaps the YouTube build TV show approach, which is this is audio only. And when I'm recording this, I am out walking. I have a high-fidelity headset on, and Greg is doing the same. We are doing something good for our bodies while we are having a fun and productive conversation, and my suggestion to everyone listening is if you can, do a walk and listen.

Starting point is 00:38:20 There is no reason for you to be parked in front of a laptop watching a video contributing to your own physical demise hour by hour if you can be part of the conversation, and that's enough preamble on the format. But I really feel strongly that this is something I'm going to do more of. I loved doing it, and my hope is that you will join us in walking more. It is the cure-all for so many things. Greg McKeown, who is he? You can find him on Twitter at Gregory McKeown, spelled M-C-K-E-O-W-N. Greg is the author of two New York Times bestsellers, mega bestsellers, Essentialism, The Disciplined Pursuit of Less, which is a book I've read many times, and then I've reread my

Starting point is 00:39:18 Kindle highlights probably 15, 20 times. And his second book, Effortless, subtitle, Make It Easier to Do What Matters Most. Together, they've sold more than 2 million copies in 37 languages. He's also a speaker, host of the Greg McKeown podcast, and founder of the Essentialism Academy with students from 96 countries. More than 175,000 people have also signed up to his One Minute Wednesday newsletter. He is currently doing a doctorate at the University of Cambridge, and he is, as I mentioned, easily one of my favorite thinkers on many, many, many, many, many different areas. And he is intensely practical. Originally from London, England, Greg and his wife, Anna, are parents to four children. You can find everything Greg at gregmckeown.com. My guest is Nolan Williams, MD. You can find him on Twitter at Nolan Ry, R-Y Williams. And

Starting point is 00:40:17 Nolan is an associate professor within the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford University School of Medicine and director of the Stanford Brain Stimulation Lab. And we're going to go deep into a lot related to brain stimulation. He has a broad background in clinical neuroscience and is triple board certified in general neurology, general psychiatry, and behavioral neurology and neuropsychiatry. Themes of his work include examining spaced learning theory and neurostimulation techniques, development and mechanistic understanding of rapid-acting antidepressants, and identifying objective biomarkers that predict neuromodulation responses in treatment-resistant

Starting point is 00:40:56 neuropsychiatric conditions. That is a long way of saying that he specializes in looking at, I would say, and these are my words, of course, cutting-edge treatments and new technologies that can be applied to treatment-resistant psychiatric disorders, let's just say. So, treatment-resistant depression, things that are notoriously difficult to address like OCD. There are many others. Nolan's work resulted in an FDA clearance for the world's first non-invasive rapid-acting neuromodulation approach for treatment-resistant depression. And I've tested this myself, and we get into this in the conversation. He has published papers in Brain, American Journal of Psychiatry, and Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Results from his studies have gained attention in Science and the New England Journal of Medicine Journal Watch. He received two NARSAD Young Investigator Awards, the Gerald L. Clareman Award,

Starting point is 00:41:54 and the National Institute of Mental Health Biobehavioral Research Award for Innovative New Scientists. Again, you can find him on Twitter or X at nolan rye williams we'll link to this in the show notes as well and you can find him online at nolan r williams.com no kegan tim ferris it's been a minute nice to see you great to see you really our last rodeo from an audio perspective was ages ago. Number 75 on the podcast, now close to 700 episodes. Wow. Yeah. And at that time, it was how Facebook's number 30 employee

Starting point is 00:42:35 quickly built four businesses and gained 40 pounds with weight training. I feel like my headlines have deteriorated over time. They've become very sort of pedantic and pedestrian and descriptive. That is better copy. So I need to work on that copy. Maybe you drafted that copy yourself, actually. For all I know, that could have been the case.

Starting point is 00:42:55 We have a lot to talk about. But for people who don't have any context, could you give a little self-intro? Great to see you, first off. Yeah, great to see you too. Great to see you. Now we're at $8 million businesses, which is pretty amazing. I was number 30 at Facebook, number four at Mint.com.

Starting point is 00:43:10 I was a cubicle monkey at Intel for a very brief moment, which sucked, which led me to this entrepreneurship journey. And then I've started so many different businesses that failed. Some worked, and now I help run AppSuma.com, number one site online for software deals. We do about $80 million a year, which is unreal. It started bootstrapped in a weekend. I couldn't believe it when I saw that. I can't believe it.

Starting point is 00:43:27 I remember day one of AppSumo effectively back in the day. It's been crazy and you were a big help with it. You're a super big help with getting it going. So thank you. You're welcome. YouTube channel has done pretty well, a million subs, got a book, Million Dollar Weekend, coming out to help people.

Starting point is 00:43:42 Very similar complimentary for our work week. And we're here today. Andy Galpin. Who is Andy? Andy Galpin is a tenured full professor at California State University, Fullerton, where he is also co-director of the Center for Sport Performance and founder-director of the Biochemistry and Molecular Exercise Physiology Laboratory. He is a human performance

Starting point is 00:44:05 scientist with a PhD in human bioenergetics and more than 100 peer-reviewed publications and presentations. It turns out he has done research, his team has done research on many things that have been on this show. I didn't realize some of it in advance. Dr. Galpin has worked with elite athletes, including all-stars, all pros and MVPs, Cy Young and major winners, Olympic gold medalists, and world titleists and contenders across many, many different sports that includes MMA. So for instance, UFC, MLB, NBA, PGA, NFL, all the acronyms, Olympics, boxing, military special forces, and much more. He is also a co-founder of Biomolecular Athlete, Vitality Blueprint, Absolute Rest, and Rapid Health and Performance. You can find all things Andy Galpin at andygalpin.com,

Starting point is 00:44:51 and you can find him on Twitter and Instagram at Dr. Andy Galpin, spelled G-A-L-P-I-N. The guest, Chris Beresford-Hill, is best known as a creative leader in advertising. He's an adman. He's a very, very good adman. He started off as an unpaid intern. The journey is wild. His technique's highly effective, but he's not just an adman. This conversation is really about coming up with good ideas. How do you come up with original and good ideas that not only can say sell product, but also change narratives, change stories, change the stories people tell, change culture on some level? And I loved this conversation. So let me get to the bio and then I will give some teasers. Chris Bairdsford-Hill is one of the most sought after creative leaders in advertising

Starting point is 00:45:42 and has led brands with a combined market cap of over $1 trillion. He was recently named chief creative officer of the Americas, BBDO. Previously, Chris served as North America president and chief creative officer at Ogilvy and chief creative officer at TBWA, Chiat Day. His work for clients like Guinness, Mountain Dew, Dove, Workday, Adidas, FedEx, McDonald's, HBO, and Foot Locker have driven sales while putting dent after dent into pop culture. But it's not just these huge brands. We also get into the early stories of how a cold email to Mark Cuban changed the game for him completely. So we do talk about the super scrappy bootstrapped, very, very novice days when he made a mark and slowly built his trajectory up to the stratosphere.

Starting point is 00:46:27 Back to the bio. Chris and his teams have won every award for creativity and effectiveness many times over. They even have, and I didn't even realize this was a thing, five campaigns in the permanent collection at MoMA. He has been named to Adweek's list of best creatives, Adweek's creative 100, Business Insider's Most Creative People in Advertising, and the Ad Age 40 Under 40, back when he was under 40. And you can find Chris Beresford-Hill on LinkedIn. That is the best place to connect. And we'll link to that in the show notes at tim.blog slash podcast, but it is linkedin.com slash IN slash Chris Beresford-Hill, B-E-R-E-S-F-O-R-D-L-I-L-L. Hey guys, this is Tim again.

Starting point is 00:47:09 Just one more thing before you take off. And that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets,

Starting point is 00:47:42 gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field, and then I test them, and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog.com slash Friday. Type that into your browser, tim.blog.com slash Friday. Drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.

The Tim Ferriss Show - #723: In Case You Missed It: January 2024 Recap of "The Tim Ferriss Show"

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