The Tim Ferriss Show - #733: Live 10th Anniversary Random Show with Kevin Rose — Exploring What’s Next, Testing Ozempic, Modern Dating, New Breakthrough Treatments for Anxiety, Bitcoin ETFs, Mike Tyson vs. Jake Paul, and Engineering More Awe in Your Life

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

This week is officially the podcast’s 10-year anniversary, and there is no better way to commemorate such a wild milestone than with Kevin Rose and a little tequila. As many listeners know, Kevin was my very first guest for episode 1, way back in April 2014. Timestamps for this episode are available below.Sponsors:Nordic Naturals, the #1-selling fish-oil and algae-oil brand in the U.S.: https://www.nordic.com/tim (20% off) Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating: https://eightsleep.com/tim (save $200 on the Pod Cover)AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement: https://drinkag1.com/tim (1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase.)Timestamps:[00:00] Start[07:20] First live Random Show?[07:50] Reasons to celebrate.[08:30] How long can this go on?[10:15] Mmm…Mmm.[11:53] Inflection points.[13:00] Interesting over impulse.[14:46] Bitcoin ETFs.[17:22] PROOF news.[18:41] What’s Kevin’s next project?[21:15] Don’t DIY your TMS.[22:57] The SAINT protocol and accelerated TMS.[23:42] Kevin wonders how magnets work.[24:27] How accelerated TMS has helped me.[28:02] Consumer access to accelerated TMS.[31:50] How TMS feels, and other possible uses.[32:49] Potential downsides.[35:10] How to find out more about accelerated TMS.[38:18] How to appear human in social situations.[45:20] Jinjer and Sohn.[46:24] Android and Gemini.[48:41] Content production and future fame.[49:58] Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson.[52:02] Kevin’s deflated balls.[55:49] My single life.[59:39] Extending experiential lifespan.[1:06:12] This is (Henry Shukman’s) The Way.*For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsorsSign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissYouTube: youtube.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, Margaret Atwood, Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Dr. Gabor Maté, Anne Lamott, Sarah Silverman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is brought to you by Nordic Naturals, the number one selling fish oil and algae oil brand in the U.S. And I actually have used both of those, their fish oil and algae oil, for more than a year now. I alternate back and forth. It is one of the few supplements that I always travel with. Trusted by doctors and healthcare professionals since 1995, Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega and Algae Omega provide foundational support for heart and brain health, immune system function, and more. More than 80% of Americans, and probably many of you listening outside of the US, do not get enough omega-3 fats from their diet. That is a problem because the body cannot produce omega-3s. We cannot produce that endogenously, meaning in our

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for every one of their products. So learn more. If you've been wondering what type of omega-3 you should take, which ones are properly vetted and tested and have quality assured, check out Nordic Naturals. Go to nordic.com slash Tim and discover why Nordic Naturals is the number one selling omega-3 brand in the US. And while you're there, use promo code Tim for 20% off of your order. That's nordic, N-O-R-D-I-C.com slash Tim and code Tim for 20% off. This episode is brought to you by 8sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep and heat is my personal nemesis. I've suffered for decades tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling the back on, putting one leg on top and repeating all of that ad nauseum. But now I am falling asleep in record

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increase your percentage of deep sleep. In addition to its best-in-class temperature regulation, the PodCover sensors also track your health and sleep metrics without the need to use a wearable. If you have a partner, great. You can split the zones and you can sleep at your own ideal temperatures. It's easy. So go to 8sleep.com slash Tim, spelled out 8sleep.com slash Tim, and save $200 on the pod cover by 8sleep. 8sleep currently ships within the US, Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU, and Australia. Optimal minimum. At this altitude and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to sit down with world-class performers of all different types to tease out the habits, routines, favorite books, and so on that you can apply and

test in your own lives. And I have said that ladies and germs hundreds of times now, it is crazy to think that the 10th anniversary is this week officially of the podcast. And there's no better way to commemorate such a wild milestone, something I never could have imagined than with my good buddy, Kevin Rose and a little tequila. because as many of you listeners know, Kevin was my very first guest for episode one way back in April 2014. So this time, rather than me interviewing someone who is more or less a stranger to me or less known to me, we have a very special episode I recorded with Kevin at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. So for those who do not know, who is Kevin? Kevin is a partner at True Ventures, an early stage venture capital firm that has invested more than

3.8 billion in a portfolio of more than 350 companies. He's also a serial entrepreneur. He's founded a bunch of companies. He's an all around wacky and crazy guy. And we go way, way back. He also hosts the Kevin Rose Show. Sound familiar? Tim Farish Show? Kevin Rose Show? That's Kev Kev Roro, which that's an inside joke for very early listeners, which offers glimpses of the future into investing artificial intelligence, wellness, and culture, featuring conversations with experts at the vanguard of their fields. And for those people who want bonus credit, you can send a hashtag Kev Kev Roro to Kevin Rose on Twitter. And if you don't get that joke, don't worry about it. In this episode,

we meander all over the place. We catch up as we do discussing the dangers of audience capture, Kevin's Bitcoin ETF strategy, novel mental health treatments, including one very, very innovative treatment that I'm incredibly excited about for not just depression, but also anxiety, which does not involve any drugs, modern dating, Ozempic and its cousins testing these types of things, time dilation, how to increase, hopefully, awe in your own life and the reasons you might want to consider that, Mike Tyson versus Jake Paul, and so much more. So let's get to it. Shall we go to kevinrose.com to learn more about Kevin or follow him on Instagram at Kevin Rose. And I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did. 10 years. What a thing to say. I never thought it would ever last this long. Started off

as a lark, a little experiment, and I ended up with the best job in the world. So thank you for listening. Gives me great joy to have these conversations and provide these. And that's enough for my intro. Thanks for listening, everybody. Good afternoon, everybody. Hello, hello. Thanks for being here. Hi, Kevin. Tim, hello. Thanks for being here. Hi, Kevin. Tim, Tim. We're doing it.

Kev, Kev, we're doing it. Is this our first ever live? I think so. I think we've always just been at your apartment or house drinking tequila. It's usually how it goes. It's a very formal affair. So thanks for being here, everybody. Yeah.

And cheers. Cheers. With our water. With our quote unquote water. It's good to see everyone. Thank you for coming out. This is awesome. We have a lot to talk about and a lot to celebrate

because Mr. Tim Ferriss has hit one billion downloads of his podcast. Yes. Yeah. So you are the first to hear this. It actually happened mid last year and I was waiting for the right time to talk about it. And so I figured, why not talk about it today?

So hell of a milestone. Who would have thought? I mean, so many bots. At our, so many bots. And after our first episode where I asked you if you had to be a breakfast cereal, what you would choose and why, and then you busted my balls relentlessly, and that continues. So some things stay the same.

And 10th anniversary is coming up. Yeah, 10 years. How long are you going to keep doing this? I'll keep doing it as long as it's fun. I still enjoy doing it. I'll probably tighten things a little bit in the sense that return to some basics, really try to be aware of not automatically following the majority

in terms of trends or new platforms. I think that's a dangerous seduction. It can be helpful, but you want to be thoughtful about it. So I'll probably back off of video in a lot of ways, as one example. And especially personally, we'll back off of short-form video. Not because there's anything inherently bad about it, but that's just not my game. So I like to choose games where there's some Venn diagram overlap of energy in, for me, recharging and also capability.

So a good question that I like to ask friends, I like to ask myself is, what is easier for you than other people, whatever that is. And typically you'll have an advantage there. You either have some particular skill or you have some particular type of endurance that will give you a competitive advantage. Not that you have to compete. It's not zero sum, but holy shit, is podcasting crowded. It is really, really crowded. And there's some very, very, very talented interviewers out there. So it's become a much more saturated red ocean of sorts. And the practice for me as I pause at 10 years will be to think about how I can create more blue oceans for myself, which I find more exciting. But if it's 15 years, 20 years, I'm going to be having these

conversations no matter what. The question is, do I record them and then put them on a podcast? I don't know, but I'll continue to have these conversations. So my feeling is, why not just record them? It's not a heavy lift. When you think back over, say, those last 10 years, there has to be, not in a slamming way, but there has to be some really challenging interviews that you've had in terms of just like, someone was just so sharp, you couldn't keep up or just like, oh God, I was really hoping this would go better. Like any fun stories? You don't, maybe not that this would go better, but like who was just like so sharp, they just absolutely blew you away. Oh, there's so many. I mean, there are a lot. I mean,

Martine Rothblatt comes to mind as one who's just incredibly, incredibly sharp. There are many others. I can tell you one where I was the most intimidated and it showed up in the recording, which was with Ed Catmull of Pixar at the time, who was the first person I interviewed who I had not had any previous contact with. And we got on, had no established rapport, of course, very nice guy, very sharp. And I was so nervous. I'll flash forward and give you the punchline. On Twitter and other places, I saw feedback, dozens of tweets that said something like, great podcast, but mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm. And I was like, what the fuck?

And I went back and I listened to it, and every time Ed said anything, I was like, mmm, mmm, mmm. Super Japanese, I can say that. I used to live there. And I was just like, wow, I am compulsively, nervously indulging myself with this tick. And these days we would fix something like that. But at the time I was like, oh, still work to do. Who is the biggest, I have to say,

I think I can probably guess this, but in terms of like fan boy, I mean, obviously Arnold now you're best friends with, we see you pictures, you're skiing, you guys play chess, you do all this shit together. Arnold must've been a huge one for you. huge huge jackman must have been also huge yeah huge jackman he's a large man and everything you would hope him to be as a side note i would say there were a few inflection points in terms of guests because at the time celebrities on podcasts

was pretty uncommon and a-listers on podcasts, quite uncommon. I would say Arnold was certainly one, that first conversation. For me, Tony Robbins was also another that was a big one. And a lot of these folks did their first podcasts on The Tim Ferriss Show, which was also really fun for me. Jamie Foxx took a year and a half, two years to get booked, and that just blew my mind. He is the

ultimate performer on every level. Jamie Foxx and Hugh Jackman, I would say, certainly standouts in terms of decathletes of entertainment. They can do everything. It's incredible. So I'd say those stand out certainly as a couple of inflection points. And it's just been experiment after experiment. And it's very personally driven, and that is to keep my interest high, and it's also to try to counteract any impulse to chase Google trends and whatever might be in the news cycle. So for instance, there was a year

where my first interview with Bology went parabolic and completely insane in terms of downloads. I mean, millions upon millions upon millions of downloads. And there was- Is this one where he got a lot of predictions right? He did, yeah. He got a lot of predictions right. I would say that in that particular case,

we had an internal conversation. And I think that you have to be very careful about your audience shaping you. You can become a caricature of your most extreme views or behaviors. And if you allow that to drive your behavior, you can become the mask that you wear. And I've seen that. We've both seen that with folks who have their most extreme views and headlines reinforced on say YouTube. And then they suddenly replicate that and emphasize it, and they become that person.

They become the actor on the stage. So you have to be careful about that. And the impulse was to do more crypto, more crypto, more crypto. I said, no, we're not going to do that. Actually, we're going to do zero crypto for a while, just to make it clear that our priorities for the show are a little bit different. So I continue to be thrilled by conversations.

I've had a lot of fun. And I'll keep doing it as long as it's interesting. Awesome. Because if it's not interesting for me, that's going to be clear to the people who listen. Do you know what I mean? 100%. Yeah.

We've got a lot to talk about today. We have a lot to talk about, and we have much more limited time than we would normally have. 47 minutes left. So let's jump into it. You want to start? You want me to start? I want you to start.

All right. So we've come up classic random show style with a handful of things to just BS about. Speaking of crypto, I mean, it's having a moment again. It is. Obviously, very cyclical type environment. Like, we're back up. Things are going crazy. I did something wild.

And we always do this weird thing where we say, not weird, but important thing where we say not investment advice. Very important. Over the years, when you leave various jobs, you tend to have a little 401k sitting over here, or if you've done a Roth IRA or something like that. The nice thing about the fact that we actually have ETFs now is that you can put actual crypto, you buy these actual ETFs that are crypto. I mean, we all saw that that got approved. And so what I decided to do was take all of those retirement accounts, and there's like three or four of them, and just convert them all to Bitcoin ETFs.

And this sounds crazy. And I'm not saying that this is for everyone, because certainly I believe diversification. It's not for everyone. But the nice thing about it is that at retirement, you get all those gains tax-free. And the thing that people don't know... If there are gains. If there are gains. Yes, that's right. If there are gains. But the thing that people don't know is that there are so many competitive ETFs that are out there, right? You got BlackRock, you got Fidelity, Franklin Templeton, you've got probably another dozen or so. And they all charge management fees.

But if you take a look behind the scenes and actually peel back who's providing the services underneath these, you know, just tickers, it's largely Coinbase. Fidelity is the only one I think that does their own custody of actual crypto. There might be one or two others, but almost everyone is Coinbase on the backend. So really at the end of the day, what you want is the lowest fee. And so Franklin Templeton has the lowest expense ratio of all of these. And so I just moved everything into Franklin Templeton's ETF and just keep it that way. And then at retirement, 59 and a half, you get to start taking disbursements of that. And if there are gains, you get them tax-free. So it's kind of a fun little hack to do, just if you want to see that upside over the next couple of decades, if there is upside,

and take it out tax-free. Obviously, if you're just going to go buy and hold Bitcoin, why pay the fees, right? There's tons of exchanges you can go and pay less. You don't have to pay an annual fee like you would with an ETF. But if you're going to do it in a tax-free account, that makes a lot of sense. So that's my one little fun little thing I did the last couple of weeks. I've had a lot of fun little things the last couple of weeks. What would be second place on the roster? Well, we sold proof. So with my NFT adventure over the last few years, I went to Yuga Labs,

which I'm happy found a home at a place that is actually building, you know, what I consider to be a very high quality game with a micro economy and something that has some real legs to it that hopefully will turn into something that is durable and that is large. I mean, they want to build, the quote I heard was kind of roadblocks for adults, which is like, you know, an infrastructure where you can go and build and create worlds inside of a 3D environment that has its own built-in currency and an economy powered by, you know, NFTs and actual assets inside of that world. So I realized finally, I came to the stage where after being a couple of years in, I know I'm not the hardcore DJ and I'm not going to be getting there on stage trying to like

tell people things. Tell people about crypto. Up and up and up. Yeah. Well, I mean, we talked about this at length, a podcast ago, one last time we did the random show, but I wanted to find a good home. So it was no easy feat to go and work and try and find, you know, someone like Yuga who, if anyone's going to make it, good Lord, I hope, you know, they do. So that's been, that's been a nice kind of transition and new move. So personal question related to this, my experience as someone with front row seats to your entrepreneurial journey is every time you have an exit or finish a company, you say, I'm never doing a company again. Never doing one again. Never again. And then six months

later, you start another company. So if you were me, what odds would you give Kevin Rose to sticking to that? 99%, I'm not going to start another company. No, I'm telling you. Well, here's the thing I realized. This is the true story. People that have followed the stuff and Don't hurt me. Don't hurt me. No, more, more. Don't hurt me. Don't hurt me. More, more. Listen, you want to start going

to El Cajon. He brought in tequila behind the scenes you're not supposed to. It's all my fault. We had a little bit of that. Such an enabler. So there we go. We might get kicked off stage now.

I had to come back with something. That's all I got. That's all you got. Oh, yes. So here's the deal. The one thing I did realize with this startup, two things, is that anytime you tie finances to a startup, meaning people's financial well-being,

it is a whole nother level of emotion that you get from people that are participating in what you do. And that's the most challenging startup I've ever faced. And then the second thing I realized is that I love that early stage ideation, coming up with the idea for zero fasting early on before it was a thing or dig in the early days. I don't like the scaling aspect. I appreciate the one woo out there. Some of your members dig, but I don't appreciate the scaling. I'm just not good at it. It's not in my DNA to be able to manage the, call it when you're just getting started, it's the 10 things you need to do. And then you get to five, 10 people, 15 people,

20 people, and all of a sudden there's emotions involved and not everyone's up to speed. And there's a lot of more of the just logistical management of humans, which is quite challenging for me personally. I like the idea side of things. So I'm done. I mean, I'd much rather focus on things like content creation and hopefully finding and seeing around corners early enough with the podcast where we can expose people to the next big thing and they decide whether they want to get involved or not, not me creating that next big thing.

Yeah, and for people who've been paying attention for a long time, Kevin has given previews of the future many, many times on The Random Show, on this podcast. So I do think your superpower, one of your superpowers is either super early stage or actually public market, super mature, but not in between, not so much in between. So I want to switch gears a little bit and mention something that I'm incredibly excited about, which is the most impressive, let's call it mental health intervention that

I have encountered in the last 10 years. So as some of you may know, I've been very involved with supporting a lot of research, basic science, and so on related to psychedelic compounds and psychedelic therapies. That has been because I believe they can really change the lenses through which we look at psychiatry, mental health, and so-called mental disorders completely due to some of the effect sizes and durability of, say, effects on complex PTSD, treatment-resistant depression, and so on. But I'm actually tool agnostic. Just like with startup investing, I'm looking for uncrowded bets with super high leverage potential outcomes. I'm quite agnostic about the tools. And I will say, and you and I have talked about this privately a

little bit, but in the last, let's call it year, especially the last six months, I've done a very deep dive on a new iteration of an older technology, which is TMS, transcranial magnetic stimulation. So this is a type of brain stimulation. The technology has existed for a number of decades, but the protocols and the neuro-targeting has advanced really quickly. There was full subreddits where you could go and learn how to do it yourself at home. Don't DIY this. Do not. People were literally having burns on their skin when doing it. Yeah, this is Darwin Awards territory.

Don't do this, guys. In part because you can make things a lot worse if you don't do it the right way. But to jump to the punchline, I have gone through two rounds of something called accelerated TMS. You can learn a lot about this by looking at a number of scientists, including Nolan Williams out of Stanford.

I did an interview with Nolan on the podcast for people who want to do a deep dive. And they developed what was previously known. It's gone through some rebranding, the SAINT protocol, which is a very condensed protocol for administering TMS. So you have these magnets, they elicit, in this case, theta bursts. And typically you might have TMS treatments over the span of many weeks, many months. They're compressing 50 sessions into 10 days, or actually 50 sessions into five days, excuse me. Pause for one second though, for people that don't know,

what does this look like for you? You said magnets. I'm thinking like, I don't know what I'm thinking, but like, what are you actually doing? Are you hooking shit up to your head? Are you in a lab? Are you doing it at home?

You're not doing it at home. You're hooking, so you are in a clinic or a lab and there are different iterations of this. So my first round was with a company called Brain Sway, and they use a particular H7 coil. They're developing new technologies. That's effectively a helmet that you then attach to your head with a chin strap. And based on specific targeting, depending on the condition you're trying to address, which could be depression,

treatment-resistant depression, could be generalized anxiety disorder, could be OCD, any number of things. ED. Right, ED, sure. Everybody's got their thing. If there's magnetic Viagra, then there's a whole new business I need to invest in. So yeah, sure. And then the second round was with Magnus Ventures and a slightly different technology, but it effectively looks like a paddle that is placed on the head. And they use computer vision and pretty sophisticated targeting. But the upshot of

this is going into it, no one will be surprised. I remember when I had my first diagnostic interview with one of these psychiatrists and we went through this long multi-hour process. And they said, you score X, Y, and Z. And it seems like you have moderate to severe OCD. And they're like, this might take a little while. I know this is heavy news. Like, if you need to take a break. And I was like, are you kidding me? This is no surprise to no one. Let's move on. So I went in with pretty high assessment scores for just to simplify the whole thing. OCD, which looking at my family, you'd be like, yeah, obviously.

And then anxiety and a lot of long-term listeners will know bouts of depression. That also is pretty much kind of genetically hardwired. Did these two sessions and with three months so far of durability, no longer meet any diagnostic criteria for any of those. It has been the most durable, noticeable on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis

change in my state that I've ever experienced. Can you give me, or if you care to share, can you give me something like, let's just say on the OCD side, where you were doing it previously, you had the treatments and now it's no longer there. Yeah, I can give examples. And I should say your mileage will vary. And the sample sizes are still very, very small for accelerated TMS, which is, I'm an early stage guy too, right? Like I like to get involved, but there are many unknowns, many open questions. They're still in, I want to say, sub thousands in terms of

subjects. In some cases for say OCD, it's probably fewer than 200 would be my guess. I'm making up some of these numbers, but I don't think they're very far off. So there's still a lot to figure out. But as an example, I've had lifelong onset insomnia where my brain will just not quiet down. And my mind is like, I've been waiting all day to talk to you. And it can take me an hour, two hours to fall asleep. In three months, that's effectively gone to zero. None of that. That's crazy. The best sleep I've had in a in decades do you look at aura data as well to see like am i getting the proper deep sleep am i you

know i haven't gone super granular i recognize the how that could be helpful in a sense but i really feel like we can outsource our awareness to devices and metrics where it's pretty... Well, you know when you wake up, too. If the effect size is large enough, it should be pretty obvious. And I will say there are some people who respond inversely to this.

It can worsen some people's conditions. I've seen a number of lives transformed. We have the most data for depression by far. And if you talk to really competent, sophisticated psychiatrists who have looked, keep abreast of the latest technology, they will say, finally, TMS is delivering on what we hoped it would deliver. Like the promise is finally, finally, we're seeing some of the results we were hoping to see. So there's been so many devices, even at home devices devices, that claim to do TMS. I've seen them

on Amazon. But here's the real question. Obviously, you did all of the proper due diligence around figuring out who's the best in this business that's actually doing the real science. How soon until that actually propagates out to clinics where you would feel comfortable saying, okay, now's the time when the average person can go and do this? It's hard to say. I will say on a widely distributed basis, but that's also like Uber Black got all this criticism early on. And then those people subsidized the development of UberX and over time, cost went down. And that's how-

What's the price? Well, I would say it ranges at this point because insurance will not cover accelerated TMS, at least as far as I'm aware, from, let's call it, if we're looking at competent, well-trained outfits who are vetted, 5 to 15K for that five-day period. But here's the thing. Depending on your conditions,

depending on your resources, if you were to ask me, how much would you pay to go back 20 years and have this treatment? I'd be like, take half my net worth. It's fine. The payoff is so noticeable. Now, it's not a silver bullet, nor are psychedelic assisted therapies, by the way. It's not a silver bullet, nor are psychedelic-assisted therapies, by the way. It's not one shot, one kill with conditions. So most people will go back for boosters every three to six months for, say, a the magnitude of change and durability is so far beyond pretty much any conventional treatment that I can think of, especially if you exclude maintenance therapies that are really just covering symptoms or suppressing symptoms. I'm very, very excited about this. In terms of time, I couldn't tell you. I think that it will be more widely available at retail where people pay out of pocket in the next six months to 12 months. How will someone know if that has been the same thing that you're doing?

Is there some type of certification or what do you look for? Because I've seen these types of clinics or I've seen it being offered in various places. I would look for people who have real clinical experience, who are working with established hospitals and have some bona fides. There's a lot of fly-by-night TMS operations, just like there are lots of rent-a-shamans on Craigslist and Facebook who did some weekend yoga course in Costa Rica and suddenly they're going to save your soul. Probably not a great idea. Similarly, if it's like, yeah, we run a dentist's office and we offer TMS, maybe you don't do that. Or like the people who are like, yeah, we will fix your nails and give you semaglutide. Like, no, you mix in the bathroom. Like maybe you don't do that. So I think, you know, common sense applies, but it has been

really fascinating. And the reason you don't want to DIY it, or one of the many, many reasons you don't want to DIY it, is that you're dealing with very sensitive circuitry. This whole thing in our heads, as far as I know, is powered on roughly the electricity of a light bulb. We really don't know how it works, how we're able to function at such a high level. I suspect there are all sorts of, and this is true for all factions, like quantum effects and many, many complicated mechanisms that we just do not understand. And when you're applying a magnetic pulse to your brain,

and this is simplified, but you're either activating or deactivating, enhancing or suppressing some degree of activity or a network of activity. And if you screw that up, you can get the opposite of what you're looking for. Is there any real time feeling? When you're sitting there, are you seeing shit? It feels like someone flicking the side of your head. There are no visuals or anything, but you feel like someone's flicking the side of your head. And each day you feel like you ran a mental ultra marathon. Like if you were cramming for the LSATs every day for 15 hours straight, that is the degree of mental

exhaustion. It's very tiring. Do you find that it's improved your cognitive tasks? Like are you like able to, like, is there any performance enhancing benefits to this as well? Well, I do think TMS is going to be used for performance enhancement. I think it could be used for sports enhancement and many things. So I do think, especially in the world of anti-doping and so on, that athletes are going to start to use TMS pre-competition for enhancing, who knows, visual acuity, reaction speed. That's going to happen for sure. Because you can already use TMS to change trait hypnotizability. If you want to make people more susceptible to being hypnotized, you can use this. It's going to get super wild really quickly. I will say that one thing I have noticed on the plus or negative side, depending on how you look at it, is that I've been so much less productive in the last few months. You seem really chill right now.

Yeah, super chill. Here's what I would say. I wouldn't trade the productivity for my current sense of calmness. And I was chatting with therapists about this and they said, well, I think for a lot of people that anxiety is used as a fuel to work, to basically run away from things, not run towards things. And I was like, yeah, I could see that.

That doesn't seem shocking to me. So, you know, a question I've tried to ask myself with a lot of different projects is, am I running away from something or am I running towards something? That seems a very important distinction to make. And also another reason not to DIY this is in a lot of cases, you're, let's just say in the case of anxiety. So you have too much fight or flight or freeze, let's just say. So you want to dampen that a little bit so you can move around without being a head case. Okay, great. You still need some of that fight or flight in your life. So you can over dampen that. Or maybe you want to increase your parasympathetic response. This is going to be very personal. I

didn't really think I would talk about this publicly, but so there's a shorthand in medical school. They say point and shoot. In other words, parasympathetic to get an erection, sympathetic to orgasm. Both of those are really important. So after I got my sympathetic smashed, I couldn't orgasm for like two weeks and I was freaking the fuck out. I was like, did I just completely screw up my hardwiring? Like, I'm never going to orgasm again. That seems like a high tax to pay. Uh, fuck,

you know, was the engine there? Like scary moment. Like you, you didn't have a problem with the point. No, no. Okay.

It was just the finish is the shoot. That was the problem. Yeah. Jesus man. So like that could freak you out. Or let's say like classic Tim Ferriss, like early, like trying the craziest shit, you know, that could freak you out. This is classic Tim Ferriss, like early, like trying the craziest shit.

You know, I'm taking the bullets so other people don't necessarily have to. But these are all reasons why you don't want to buy a kit on Amazon and just start zapping your brain while you're watching Netflix. Unless you're fast and you need to slow down. You know, if somebody else wants to run that N01, like knock yourself out, but I'm not going to do that. Yeah. All right. Moving on. All right. That's so last question. And then we can, we can move on. Is there a website or anything where, where you went? Like, where did you go? If someone's listening to this and they're like, I want to go where Tim went. Yeah. I, I mean, this is where I would like to have, and this is not for any reason other than

I'm going to defer on that just because I want to have some more experience. Also, I want to do a follow-up. I want to see what the durability looks like before I start recommending outfits. I appreciate that. So I will do that. I'll have more to say about this.

But for people who want to do a deep dive, Dr. Nolan Williams and the podcast that I did with him touches a lot of this. I will also say just a quick note, which is there are some theories around, say, depression, which are not chemically focused. So instead of like, oh, serotonin imbalance, this imbalance, which is a little antiquated in a bunch of senses. It's not that it isn't a non-variable, but it doesn't seem to be the primary determinant. It could be that different structures in the brain are firing out of sequence and you can use the TMS to correct

that sequence. So instead of firing like BAC, it's like, oh, well, let's slightly tweak that system. So it's firing in what we see in normal healthies, which is ABC. Pretty interesting. Yeah. To be able to basically just reset the tripwire sequence. Something I think we'll be hearing a lot more about in the next handful of years, and it is better tolerated than most medications. From a risk profile perspective, for most people, in very rare cases, it can trigger seizures. There are adverse side effect potentials, but for the vast majority, very well tolerated. So I'm excited about it because, for instance, psychedelic-assisted therapy is contraindicated for lots of people.

There are many people who should not take this or engage in that type of therapy. Too many risks involved. People with, say, borderline personality disorder, with family history of schizophrenia, etc., but they wouldn't necessarily be automatically excluded from doing something like accelerated TMS. So that's exciting to me. Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors, and we'll be right back to the show.

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drinkag1.com slash Tim. Last time, drinkag1.com slash Tim. Check it out. All right, we've got 22 minutes left. What you got? They're cutting us off. So one of the things that dawned on me at South by Southwest, and I'm curious to get a, we'll do a poll at some point here, but one of the things

that's really challenging, at least for me personally, is like when we go to these events or you go to events and gatherings, social gatherings, I'm okay on stage and I'm okay interviewing folks, but I actually don't like social events. I get a little anxiety around them. Yeah. And it's largely because it's like- Thank God you had the tequila beforehand. Exactly. The social lubricant does help, but it's largely because it's a lot of kind of like small talk, you know, like what do you do for a living, like this and that, right? Totally.

I had this fantastic guest, Charles Duhigg, recently on the podcast just a couple of days ago. Great author. Yeah, fantastic, called Super Connectors. How many people have a hard time at events? Raise of hands instead of curiosity. A lot of people. It's a challenging thing. And so those icebreakers and all that shit,

I don't know what to say. And this author was fantastic. So Super Connectors is the book that I just am in the process of reading right now. And it's really about a couple of things. Like one, how can you get to a deep conversation quickly? And then how to build trust with the person you're having a conversation with. And that can be used for relationships, like first dates. It can be used for eventually, you know, working business partnerships, how is trust actually formed in terms of social

interactions? And a lot of it comes down to the questions that you ask and actually the follow-up questions that you ask and then the reciting of what the person said to make them know that you actually heard what they were saying. And so it's just a fascinating, fun topic. And I was just curious, is that something that you've ever had issues with? Or have you ever studied how to create these lasting, long-bonded connections with other humans? Yeah, I think about it all the time. You really?

Oh yeah, for sure. And I'm also, I can pretend to be the extrovert and play the extrovert on stage like this, where I'm safely at a distance talking to one person in front of a lot of people. But I am very introverted. You've seen this. It's like, if I'm at a big group dinner, I'll take 20 bathroom breaks. And it's not because my prostate is old. It's because I need to do Lamaze breathing in the bathroom. Be like, okay, I'm okay. You know, smile and I can get back out there. So I've thought about this a lot because what I've found also is that if you study this type of thing, it makes you more comfortable and less

overwhelmed in these circumstances. So it is not only helping the person or making the person across from you feel more comfortable. In my case, it helps me feel a lot more comfortable. So what have you learned from this book? Are there any particular questions, follow-up questions? If you were a breakfast cereal, what would you be? Not a question, but that was a good first podcast question. The one thing that you do is you write down five things that you could talk about when you're at this event or questions that you might want to ask. And there was this research study that was done that people that wrote down these questions and they put them in their pocket, they never used the questions, but it put them at ease knowing that they had the backups in their pocket. And

then it led to more natural conversation. And then the second thing is just really going in and being naturally curious about the person and asking, like, if you were saying, hey, I just tried this new brain stimulation technique, it'd be like, oh, that sounds really fun. Like, that's a dead end to that, right? You would say like, well, I've read a little bit about this, but like, can you tell me more about how it's actually helped you? And like, you know, it's- Like what you just did.

Yes, exactly. I was actually ninjing on you. I feel very at ease with did. Yes, exactly. I was actually ninjing. I feel very at ease with you. Yeah, exactly. I'm not going to go anywhere. I could go there. But it is one thing where there's like these little tactics. But the interesting thing is you're not faking it.

Because the first thing I asked him, I was like, well, that feels like you're kind of faking it. And you're just kind of like, oh, I've got these tactics. And I'm going to go use these tactics. And he goes, no, once you start using these, you build a muscle, you get comfort. And then it naturally just happens to where you can walk into a social setting and you'll have that muscle and the comfort is there. The anxiety is gone. And it flips it from something that is like, should I go to this event or not? To like, I can actually thrive at this event. Cause for me,

you walk out of an event and I'm like, Oh my God, I just ran a marathon. You know, like you feel emotionally drained and it turns it into something that is actually, you probably have a friend where they walk out of events and you're like, like Gary Vaynerchuk,

like, well, how the fuck does he do what he does? Like the dude, he's got different batteries, different batteries. Yeah. He's got different batteries,

different batteries. Yeah. And it's like, like, you watch someone like that, and you're like, how do you feed off of that versus getting drained from it? And there's a lot of tactics there. So anyway, I just want to throw it as a fun book to tune into, and it was a really fun podcast that we did. This is a side note, which is related to something you said

about having the backup topics and then never using them. Yeah. A friend of mine, Neil Strass, I've known forever. Very funny, skilled author. He was also a journalist for a long time and interviewed dozens of the top celebrities and politicians and so on of the era. And he would do tons and tons of prep. He would have all these questions written out on a piece of paper. He'd fold it up, put it in his pocket,

and never look at it for the interview. And it was just to have that confidence and comfort. Well, if you hit a dead end, you've got something to fall back on, right? Yeah. And I would also say, quite apart from that, part of how I have resolved for myself some of the social anxiety

is just assume that anyone you meet, like everyone knows everyone in the sense that if you go to a party with 30 people and you talk to one person for the whole night, that is not a waste of time. Even if you misfire over time, having that habit, it's a very small world. Oh, here's a good one. Speaking of talking to one person, have you ever found yourself in a conversation where you're like, I got to get out of this conversation, right? You want to move on to the next person? Abort, abort. This is a really good hack, actually. He told me-

You want to do some heroin? And they're like, what? Exactly. You offer them heroin, they're like, I'm going to go that way. No, what you do, this is a brilliant one. It was one of my favorite ones that he dropped on my podcast at kevinrose.com. What he did is he said that what you can do is what you want to do is you want to go in there and you want to say, hey, listen, I have some other people here that I need to go have a conversation with, but I want to ask you one more thing about what you were just saying. Because then it's not that I'm not interested in what you were saying. You're not just, you're dismissing yourself. You're saying, I'm going to do this thing, but tell me a little bit more about what was so interesting about you,

which is a really fascinating little hack. That's a good softening instead of like, hey, my cat's on fire. I'm so sorry. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I want to give people a little Scooby snack, which is totally unrelated to zapping brains or point and shoot. This is if people want to give people a little Scooby snack, which is totally unrelated to zapping brains or point and shoot. This is if people want to hear something that 99% of you will hate, I give it to you anyway. This was, I'll give credit to S. I'm not going to mention her full name, but there's a band called Ginger, J-I-N-G-E-R. This is a Ukrainian metalcore band. It is super hardcore. The range is impressive.

With the vocalists involved, it's very hardcore. But this was introduced to me, and I've been listening to it. Pisces. I'd start with that track. So if you want something really strange to listen to, you're welcome. This is The Random Show. It's The Random Show. Got to live up to the name.

Okay. I'm going to give you one then. Sohn. S-h-n uh yes the artist you've been texting me non-stop about sown sown is amazing underrated i mean he's got some tracks that have like millions of views but like underrated like amazing music just to chill out to so s-o-h-n s-o-h-n also the name of a great finance conference unrelated all right. All right. Okay. Android slash Gemini. I want to hear about this. Okay. I'll hit one real quick. You hit one real quick and then we're going to come up on time.

But you have 14 minutes. Yeah, it's true. Every six months I try to move to Android and I fail and it sucks. Yeah. I really want to do it. And I get the phone and I'm like, okay, I'm excited. This is the first time where I installed the beta for Gemini and Gemini is their AI stuff, right? They're a chat GPT competitor. Gemini sucked

like six months ago. And I'm not like three months ago. It was horrible. It's got a lot better. No doubt. I mean, it's Google, right? You're going to throw some serious resources at this and figure out this problem. They did this update where you can actually integrate it into and replace the assistant on your phone now. Much in the way that you can assign to the new Apple iPhone, you can take this new button that's in the corner, the action button, and assign it to chat GPT. I saw him using this in the green room. We had a disagreement about milligrams in coffee, caffeine. There were a few hallucinations, but it was pretty convincing up until the punchline. But the crazy thing is that for the first time, I realized that I can't move to Android full-time

because of the freaking bubbles, the green bubbles. But aside from that, I will say that it was providing me insights that were actionable, relevant, and unexpected, which I thought was just fascinating. Like, I'll give an example. I was supposed to head to the airport to catch a flight to come out here.

And, you know, I'm with my family, with my kids. I want to say goodbye to my girls. Getting to LAX from my house is about an hour-ish and change, you never know, right? And I got a notification. It was like, hey, we saw on your calendar the flight. We know that with the time you have to leave, this is your check-in, this is your carousel, and you actually have an extra 30 minutes. And I was like, holy

shit, that was like all proactive, right? And you know, you ask Siri something, you're like, hey, how many points did Steph Curry score last night? And like, I'm sorry, I didn't get that. Yeah, he's like, here's your results from the web. And you're like, gee, thanks. Like, okay, I could have Googled that, Siri. But like, Gemini now is giving you all that shit in real time. It's very, it's very. And I'm like, it's on. Like, Apple has to really go hard, as obviously they are. And they just haven't announced it yet.

But it's getting pretty awesome. I'm excited for the future of what this is going to bring. Also, translation and simultaneous translation for conversation on Android is incredibly impressive. And it's going to get better. So this is a true story. Right now, yesterday, I saw my podcast fully translated into Spanish and Japanese in my voice and in my guest's voice. And then I have another company that is doing the lips perfectly and so now they have very supple lips yeah they're very plump I get the injections they will be I don't that'll just be like pulled out and put on Twitter they will be released actually in all these other languages and I'm imagining you're gonna be doing that yeah It's surprisingly straightforward. We'll all be hitting a global audience

in every product and everything we do in the next two to three years. The sheer volume of content production is going to be so outrageous that I think there are going to be a number of secondary and tertiary effects, including the half-life

of fame is going to go down dramatically. There's not going to be another Oprah who has command of half of a country with a show like that. The decay rate is going to be really fast, which I'm looking forward to personally. It's like public thing gets a little tiring.

What do you think about Jake Paul and Tyson? I've read some... God, okay. If we're going to So Tyson's 57 years old He's in incredibly good shape Yeah Given everything Did you watch those clips of him

Like punching He's still got some serious In the tight turquoise shorts Yeah Yeah I hope he wears those shorts When he fights So yes Look I don't want to fight Tyson

I have heard rumors They're going to require Headgear and 18-ounce gloves. That's bullshit. They can't do that. That gives too much advantage to the young buck with more endurance. I'd say if you're going to fight, make it a real boxing match. If someone said, Tim, you don't ever have to podcast again,

$200 million, step in with Tyson. No. No. Absolutely not. Dude, you wouldn't take two rounds. You take one punch from a professional fighter and the TBI, you're not going to be able to count afterwards.

Well, you got your magnets and shit. You'll be fine. Got my magnets. Yeah, no. I need no more head trauma in my life. I think Tyson's going to kick his ass. Yeah, I mean, my know i respect the guy because he went from youtuber to like legit fighter like no doubt he would make a very good he's a serious

fighter yeah he's a serious fighter i would say if it is to be a credible fight no headgear and regulation size boxing gloves having spent some time doing this kind of stuff, if you make them like the giant sumo costume, protective outfits... No one wants to watch that, though. There can't be headgear. People will watch it. But if you have all those protective mechanisms in place, it

discounts the power and it rewards the speed and endurance, and that's going to favor a younger fighter. Tyson's not going to favor a younger fighter. Tyson's not going to wear headgear? But he is? I'm saying just the rumors I've heard is that both of them wore both, but that negates the advantage that Tyson

has and should have in such a fight, in my opinion. So, make it real. If you're going to do it, make it a real fight. So, let's see. Let's take a look at... I wish we could do some audience questions, but we didn't set. So let's see. Let's take a look at, I wish we could do some audience questions, but we didn't set that up. We didn't set it up ahead of time. So I'll hear you. I got one we should touch on since we talked about point and shoot.

Do you want to talk about Kevin's deflated balls? That's my line out of here. Yeah, we can. Thanks, Tim. I appreciate that. So, well, yeah do we even go into this? So, one of the things that I find fascinating is these GLP-1 inhibitors that they're going around, the Ozempic and the Majaro, et cetera, because it's going to change everything. They're talking about, honestly, with as much weight loss as it's going to happen over the next decade, you know, the cost of flights will go down because there'll be less weight to actually... These are where they're going with this. It's insane. Yeah, a lot of major retailers budgeting for decreased snack consumption.

Yes, it's crazy. So one of the things that people don't know about this is that these started off not as weight loss drugs. I mean, people probably know this, but as type 2 diabetes drugs. And so they're primarily used for glucose control. And one of the things that I've always had an issue with, I went to Atiyah a decade ago and he tested- Peter Atiyah, also a great podcast. Yeah, fantastic.

Atiyah's great. The Drive podcast is fantastic. He made me do something called a glucose tolerance test. You drink a big sugary drink and you watch how quickly your body can dispose of the glucose. Unfortunately, mine's really shitty. It takes me a long time to get the glucose out. And so these drugs were always interesting to me from that point of view. Like how can I have better glucose control? Largely because my dad died of a heart

attack. My grandfather died of a stroke. Like cardiovascular disease is rampant on my father's side. And so there's a 20, this is like data we asked Chad to be T earlier. It's real data that you can go on their website. There's a 20% reduction in cardiovascular events for people that are on these drugs. Even accounting for the weight loss. Even taking an account and controlling for the weight loss. And so I tried it a long time ago with Tia, just because I was curious. This was like, you know, six years ago.

And you definitely lose your beer gut, which is great. Drew, I see in the audience, we like our beer and our drinks. Drew's awesome. It does help on that front, in the vanity front. But like for me, I would wear a Dexcom and my glucose was just like stable as hell, which was amazing. And I like the cardioprotective benefits of it. I didn't want to stay on it

because you lose muscle mass. Yeah, that was going to be the question. Yeah. So Atiyah started talking about this and saying, hey, I don't put people on this because you lose muscle mass. So what do you have to do? You have to go and do testosterone. Just to be clear, you lose muscle mass because you're not eating. So in a lot of cases, people are not consuming enough protein nor calories. Right, exactly. So you're not getting enough protein, so you lose muscle mass. And so you can do testosterone replacement therapy to counter it. It's a whole mess. But if you do testosterone, you've done testosterone replacement therapy.

Did it post-surgery. Yeah, I did. A whole cocktail of testosterone. You've never had a little juice on the side? No. You hang out with Arnold, dude. You never had a little? It's not like we're having omelets and steroids the side? No. You hang out with Arnold, dude. You never have a little... It's not like we're having

omelets and steroids for breakfast. No. Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on this. But I think that post-surgery for certain instances and so on, I think it's indicated. I think people need to be aware of the risks that they're taking

and post-psychotherapy and various things that they need to take into account. Yeah, but if you do it also, you lose a lot of things down there. Like your balls shrink. Yeah. They turn into raisinets just as a side note. Raisinets. Yeah. So anyway, it's a balance. This longevity thing is a really tricky thing. And the thing for me is like, I've never wanted to be someone that like, I don't believe in like living forever. I don't want to do that.

I just want to see my kids grow up. I'm an older dad. At the end, if I die at 75 or 80, like. I still got all the proof. What's that? I said, you're an older dad. I am an older dad. Oh, I know.

I have some ketchup to get me as well. Oh, speaking of which, you're, you're, you're. No, you wanted to cover it, son. No. You're single. Yes. I actually hear some, there's surprisingly some ladies in the audience,

which is amazing. Meet Tim Ferriss on the sign. He is signing books. And no, how's that going, dude? What's it like now these days? I mean, look, anyone here who's participating in modern dating, I think would agree that it's pretty fucking bizarre.

So look, there's some amazing people out there. It is also, I think, depending on your standards, one of my friends, I won't name him, but he was like, oh, you and your standards. But if you have reasonable standards, it is like finding a needle in a haystack because you're starting from all the apps or all the humans in the world.

So I think you need to have pretty tight criteria if you're going to make that remotely tackleable. Dating on one hand is very fun, and on the other hand, it's incredibly exhausting. How low do you go, just out of curiosity? How low do I go? What are you talking about? I mean, like...

I get how that could be taken a few different ways, but like... Slow is necessary. Somebody's a fan. You got one taker. You got one taker later. That was quite the scream. Not against it.

I'm not upset. Like your age. Are you going? What is it, 27, 30, 32? I mean, look, I would say, oh God. All right. So I would say 28 plus is what I'm looking for. Like I want someone who has a reasonably formed identity and has demonstrated the ability to handle hard things in life

and so on and so forth. If somebody is still really on the path to establishing in their own minds who they are, I think there's a lot of risk in that because people develop in different directions and it's good to see someone who's reached some point of confidence in themselves and they have a degree of self-awareness in who they are, what they like, what they don't like. That takes time.

I will say one thing. It could also be quite a bit above that. I'm not married to that, but I would say the lower bound. But you also want kids. I also want kids. So that's a whole hot third rail that I'm not sure I want to touch. It gets people very upset. But yeah, there are some biological realities for sure.

One of the things I will say that I do really respect about you is like, I've had the chance to as have you to bump into a bunch of celebrities over our time and just mingling with folks. And when you get to a certain state of notoriety, it's easier to date. And one of the things that you've always said to me is like, you want someone that is like challenging you intellectually. And you've always had these really high standards in all the right ways. Yeah. It's not necessarily like a canvassing Mensa for my next chess partner type of situation. I don't want to...

The last thing I want is to date me with long hair. That's a nightmare. Yeah, that's scary. Let me jump off a building now and end it before it gets bad. But what I am looking for is someone i can admire like there should be a mutual admiration and the reasons for that can be many right but it's like somebody that impresses you that you admire which is very different from respecting

right like respecting can have a negative connotation or an obligation feel to it whereas admiration like you can't force that. You can't do that because other people demand it. It's a very organic thing. So I'm certainly looking for that. I'd say we're going to get yelled at, but we can push a little bit. No, we can push a little bit.

You guys okay with another five minutes? All right, we'll go a little bit longer. To shift gears just a little bit, just because you mentioned something that has been on my mind a lot, if this might be helpful to anyone, lifespan, life extension. This is in the water. A lot of people are talking about it.

A lot of people are obsessing over it. And a lot of folks are mostly tech males, if I'm being frank. But a lot of people are interested in not dying. So there is that. But there is a lot of people are interested in not dying. So there is that. But there's a lot of bandwidth, a lot of money being allocated to thinking about life extension. And I would recommend, we mentioned Peter Attia earlier, Outlive, his book talks a lot about healthspan, not just lifespan. Take a look at that. But on a very different level, I've been thinking a lot about experiential lifespan.

So I think most people in this audience have probably experienced varying degrees of time dilation, where maybe you go on an extended hike, maybe you take a few days to do X, Y, and Z. Maybe it was during COVID because of everything that was changing minute to minute, where you have, for periods of time, an increased frame rate. It's like your normal frame rate. I'm making this up. It's like 24 frames per second, but then you go to like 1,000 frames per second,

and an hour or a day or a week can feel like months. So I've been thinking a lot about how you can engineer that and schedule that in your life. And if you, say, schedule three or four things that you know produce this time dilation for you, if that, say, just based on the frame rate, kind of expands your year experientially to be an additional three months,

even if you don't extend your max lifespan, you've extended your max experiential lifespan really significantly. So what's been your strategy for that? Because there are a lot of miserable fucks who want to live forever. I mean, let's be honest, I hate to say it, but it's just like, oh wow, you just want to make this painful journey as long as possible. That's one way to go about it. How do I want? So what are your strategies for that? What is your like, we all agree, like as you get older,

like it seems like time is just compressing and going faster and faster. Yeah, there are a few things and there's a great article from Johns Hopkins University magazine called Awestruck, which I actually put on my blog because it resonated with me so clearly. I recommend people check that out

because I do think awe, and there are assessments, of course, for ranking your experience of awe in different environments, but it's worth thinking about because I do think it correlates to this time dilation. There are a few things that hop to mind. For me, extended time off the grid in, say, mountainous environments seem to produce that. Being in seasonal environments as opposed to in one place, say, your experience in an equatorial place or someplace like Costa Rica, for instance, for a lot of people, it seems much faster. Time passes faster than it does in a place with seasons,

as one example. Another would be the last few months, I was in the mountains and I was skiing for half of each day. And you're changing locations a lot. And people have probably experienced this, where if you're at South by Southwest and you change locations, you go to 10 different places in one day, even if that's just eight hours,

it feels longer than if you're sitting at your kitchen table, pecking away at email for that equivalent period of time. The experience of time is different. So changing locations, that's something you can very easily plan into your life. There are certain states, of course. I mean, I'm not going to recommend this. Like I mentioned, contraindicated for a lot of people, but certain psychedelic experiences certainly can produce this. But it's not exclusive to that at all. If you've been,

for instance, places that have a pervasive feeling of vastness, for instance, Montana, you go there or Alaska, it just feels bigger, like the sky and everything seems vaster. And that has an effect on your sensory experience that changes, I think, for me at least, my perception of time. Lots of nonverbal stuff, interacting with animals. That's a whole separate conversation. I'm thinking of Ace Ventura, a pet detective with the birds landing on his arms.

Yeah, my experience with the wolves, certainly. So there are ways that you can engineer this, but I think that the most practical way to go about it is just to look back at the last two years, identify where you experienced these peak moments of awe, and try to figure out what the characteristics are, the shared characteristics. I think this is a major unlock because, frankly, humans have been trying to figure out the code of immortality and the fountain of youth forever. It hasn't worked yet. I hate to be the one to deliver the news. And I don't think we're going to figure it out in the next 50 years.

Maybe people will say that's pessimistic. I think I would rather be pleasantly surprised when it works than to bank on it and have it not work. So in the meantime, there are some really straightforward things you can do. Let me throw out one last little hack before we go that is related to this. Have you had Sunil Gupta on your show yet? No. He's awesome. He's fantastic. Just human.

And he wrote this book recently. It's about the wisdom of Dharma and ancient techniques, tying back to India and how we can incorporate them into modern life. And one of the things that he did some research on was these people that just have this energy that is every day, they just keep going. They just have this unbound energy. And one of the people that is like this is Martha Stewart in her 80s. So people say that Martha Stewart now in her 80s has more energy than she did when she was younger. And they went back and they asked her, you know, well, what's the secret here? How'd you do this? And it's breaks in the day. And it's like,

don't do back-to-back meetings, but taking 10 minutes to get outside, to go for that walk for the day, to break it up. And actually you will de-stress yourself. and also the day will seem fuller and longer. But the interesting hack was that if you ever say, hey, we're going to do a meeting, Tim and I, we're going to jump on a call and you know what? I'm going to end 10 minutes early. It's going to be from one to 150 instead of from one to two. It never ends that way, right? You always go to two o'clock. What he does is he starts his meetings 10 minutes late. So the meeting starts at 10 minutes after the hour. That's right. So he always gets that break.

I thought it was brilliant. And it's another fantastic book to read. Yeah. So to underscore that, I would say, if you feel rushed, your time is going to feel compressed. Right? Seems kind of self-evident, but it's taken me a lifetime to figure this out.

So there are a bunch of things you can do, right? Like that's part of the reasonevident, but it's taken me a lifetime to figure this out. So there are a bunch of things you can do, right? Like that's part of the reason, honestly, I don't think there's any magic to say transcendental meditation, but taking 20 minutes as a break twice a day. I do the way every day. And what does that force you to do? It forces you to realize that if I stop for 20 minutes twice a day, my world does not completely fall apart and you end up feeling less rushed. And I think it's that cumulative enforced realization as much as the mantra and all this other stuff that

is so helpful for folks. So it's helpful for me at the very least. Anything else? I think we should probably vacate the studio. Yeah, I think that's it. We should plug the way though, our friend Henry's meditation app. It's a great 10 minutes a day to spend. Henry's got a great meditation app. Yeah, Henry is super legit.

He's been on my podcast twice. He's been on your podcast. Henry Shookman, S-H-U-K-M-A-N. Yeah. Also has some great writing. Good way to take 10 minutes and have a break. For sure. All right, I guess that's it.

Yeah, thank you, everyone. Thanks, everybody. Hey, guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off. And that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things

I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums, perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field, and then I test them, and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog slash Friday. Type that into your browser, tim.blog slash Friday.

Drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening. This episode is brought to you by 8sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep and heat is my personal nemesis. I've suffered for decades tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling the back on, putting one leg on top and repeating all of that ad nauseum. But now I am falling asleep in record time. Why? Because I'm using a device that was recommended to me by friends called the PodCover by 8sleep. The PodCover fits on any mattress and allows you to adjust the temperature of your sleeping environment,

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