The Tim Ferriss Show - Ep 43: Margaret Cho on Comedy, Bisexuality, and The Slow-Carb Diet

Episode Date: November 11, 2014

Margaret Cho is a polymath. She is an internationally acclaimed comic, actress, author, fashion designer and singer-songwriter. Perhaps you've seen her on the big screen, or in TV series such as Sex and the City and 30 Rock. But well before she was on Dancing with the Stars (yes, she's done that, too), she decided on her comedy career... at the tender age of eight. The stage has been her constant companion ever since.In this episode we delve into her comic influences and approaches, bisexuality, slow-carb adventures, and much more. Please indulge me as we dig deep into the lesser-known tricks of the Slow-Carb Diet. Margaret had a lot of detailed questions (she's followed it for ~3 months), and the answers might help accelerate your own fat loss. (If you want more, here are several case studies -- with pics -- who've lost 100+ pounds.) Enjoy! All links and show notes can be found at www.fourhourworkweek.com/podcast***If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. I also love reading the reviews!For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast.Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Interested in sponsoring the podcast? Visit tim.blog/sponsor and fill out the form.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss YouTube: youtube.com/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Waka, waka, waka, boys and girls. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to the Tim Ferriss show. For those of you new to the program, this is the forum through which I try to dissect excellence to find the tools and tactics or approaches that you can use. And that ranges from billionaire investors to chess prodigies to mega platinum musicians to, in this episode's case, comedian. A comedian, E-N-N-E-A-N, or stand-up comic, depending on the terminology that you prefer. Margaret Cho, she has an illustrious career and is a prodigious talent, and she is also a polymath. She's not only a very celebrated standup comic, but she's been a fashion designer, singer, songwriter. She's been in feature films, of course, and TV series, including Sex and the City and 30 Rock. She's been on Dancing with the

Stars and we don't have time to go through all of her accolades. But this particular conversation digs into her inspirations, tricks of the trade, different practices that you can borrow, sexuality, including bisexuality, and her topics of choice, her different challenges, addiction, and we also delve deep into the slow carb diet. So I hope you can indulge me on that particular segment of the program, but it goes into some nitty gritty details because Margaret had a bunch of questions. She's followed it and is a fan of the protocol. So perhaps it'll help some of you out there. And as always, you can find the show notes at fourhourworkweek.com forward slash podcast for links and further resources 4hourworkweek.com forward slash podcast for links and further

resources. 4hourworkweek.com forward slash podcast. And we're using new audio equipment in this introduction. So let me know what you think. Be very curious to hear your thoughts. Without further ado, please meet Margaret Cho. Hello, ladies and gentlemen, this is Tim Ferriss, and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. I am very excited for this episode because I have someone that I have admired for a very long time, been a fan of for a very long time, joining us today, and that is Margaret Cho. Margaret, how are you? I'm doing great. Thank you very much. That's wonderful. Of course. I was having one of my many nights of insomnia, which I've dealt with and improved on.

And I was sort of scanning through Twitter, and I came across your profile because I'm a huge comedy fan. And I saw Also Follows You, and my eyes just about popped out of my head. I was so taken aback and reached out, and we connected. And here we are. But where are we finding you at the moment? I know you travel a lot. Today I'm in West Palm Beach, Florida. There is something of a big storm outside, so that's thunder. But I'm always on the road. So I'm doing a show here today. Very cool. And I know we have some precious time with you before you take off.

It is hard for me to know even where to begin because you've done so many different things. And it seems like lived so many different lives. You've had television, books, film, obviously the stand-up. When you meet someone who's unfamiliar with your work, doesn't recognize you, if they ask you, what do you do, how do you even respond to that? Well, usually I just, I think I identify mostly as a stand-up comedian. And thank you for your kind words. I was excited to connect with you, too, as I'm a big fan. And I think, but comedy is really what I would say I do. I think probably you're the same in that you are quite a multi-hyphenate

in the different things you write about and the different things you talk about. And so how would you define yourself besides, would it just be author or would it be chef or body expert or thinking expert? Multi-hyphenates are kind of tricky because it's, you know, so as you are an author, I guess I am a stand-up comedian. You know, that's the basic place where we start from, but there's so much more. No, for sure. It's something that I've had trouble with for a very long time. Depending on who I'm talking to and how badly I want to kill the conversation, if I think they're just being polite and trying to get through the three or four

cocktail questions so they can glance over my shoulder and move on, I'll say something like, you know, professional dilettante comes to mind. Drug dealer was one I used to use. And it turns out it's a great way to get people out of your house at a dinner party if you ask them if they want to do heroin. There are a lot of tricks of the trade depending on where you are. That's a great idea. Now, the stand-up comedy side of things, uh, I, I've, I've had the good fortune of, uh, occasionally having the chance to chat with people when I've gone to live shows,

for instance, and I'm always interested to know. And if, if you've been asked this question a thousand times, feel free to answer a different question, but what compels you to do comedy? And is it the same now as it was in the beginning? Um, it, uh, it's exactly the same. The, what compels me is a need to be heard and a need to make people laugh and a need to express what I think things that need to be said and also to just have a good time, you know, and I've had that impulse, I think, since I was about eight years old. I've always wanted to be a comedian and, you know, the impulse to do it, the intention, everything is the same.

There's nothing as altered. And I think this is probably the same for most comedians out there. There are quite a lot of people who do develop a kind of aversion to it after doing it for, say, 30, 40 years. They really feel like they need to retire. But I'm more on the side of I think I need to do it more actually as I get older. So I'm fortunate in that it sustains me that it's the way that I make a living, but it's also my social life and a great pastime and a great, great, great thing to do.

Now, the aspect of my career that a lot of people ask about is writing. And I've noticed there are different breeds of writers. This is going to come back to the stand-up question. a need, almost a therapeutic need to write at points, no matter how hard the process is, almost as a way of self-medicating and getting neuroses out of their heads. And I'm not projecting here, but this is for me. There are many times when I will write in the morning. The material I know is pure garbage. It's just completely self-indulgent morning pages, but it's my equivalent of taking my psyche and sort of whacking the rug to get the dust out of it before I move on to my day so that I don't have all of the gremlins in my head.

And I'm curious if, at least in the standup world or the comedy world, it seems that people have different drives and different things that keep them going. And I'd be curious to know if you could comment on what it is for you. Well, I think that I have the equivalent of a morning page's sort of thing because I work almost every day. I mean, I work almost every day. I mean, I perform almost every day. There's different things that I do, but as a stand-up comic, it is really a daily effort. And so, you know, you kind of burn off all of those kind of like ideas that are like like floating on the top and then you can get to the real meat of it. So I guess I have that kind of a meditation too. I wish that I had more

of that as a writer, you know, as an author. For me, you know, that's something that I would like to pursue more, but I still don't have the intense need for it that I do as a stand-up comedian. When did you do your first professional stand-up, and when did you decide that you were going to do it professionally? Well, I decided that I was going to do it professionally when I understood that I was going to become an adult and that at some point,

you know, that this would be my job and my identity. As soon as I understood what the job of stand-up comedy was, then I became very committed to doing it. And that's, I think, an unusual thing, maybe for somebody to choose a profession at eight years old. But I knew that it was actually more than a profession. It was really a kind of a calling.

And then I really started early. I started doing professional performances at 14. I was touring by 15. I was making pretty great living by 18. And then I was on television by 20. So it was a very, very important thing for me. And it was really destiny who were some of those uh the early inspirations and role models for you that uh that you look to uh as models if if if that were the case at all in the very early days the main model um for uh my early years and then of course, pretty much until now was Joan Rivers. And that's been a very difficult, you know, right now, a lot of comedians are feeling the loss of both her

and Robin Williams, and it's a really, it's a terrible time in comedy because it's like we lost our, the king and the queen, you know, and now it's like, who is the heir apparent? But mostly it's the longevity and endurance. I mean, my God. But what was it that, of all the people out there, really appealed to you about her when you were getting started? I think that she was so unafraid. She was so, just her fearlessness. And she was a woman. And she was just so mighty. And, you know, as a live comic, you know,

like the stuff that she would do in clubs and at night, like not including like the red carpet stuff and the Oscar stuff, she was so filthy. I mean, she was so, I mean, to the very end, you know, just the most raunchy comedian you could even imagine. And she would shock us, you know, the most unshockable people. She was incredible. And also, the reason why she and I were close is that she really taught me a lot about gratitude. You know, she had intense and immense gratitude for everything in her life and wanted me and

all these other comedians that she would foster in a way that she wanted to instill that in us, that this was a really magical thing, this gift that we were given, and that we should be really grateful for it. And that's the most valuable lesson I've ever learned from anyone. So she was really a culmination parent, like a mother and whatever, like Mr. Miyagi, like Pat Morita from Karate Kid. She was a great mentor and a great woman. Do you have any particular ways in which you practice gratitude? Is that part of your schedule in some way? Or is that just a general philosophy? I don't think so. I should.

I mean, it would be really great to have that as a practice to make a gratitude list or something like that. But mostly it's just an attitude every day. Like I'm really happy in what I do. I really love what I do. It's a really great feeling to do what you love. And, you know, for me, it's about making money, of course, but I would still do stand-up comedy without making anything.

I put just as much effort into every show, no matter how much I'm making or whatever. It's something that I always wanted, and I'm so happy that I get to do it, and I think that it's just wonderful. I don't actually have a practice, but that might be something nice to implement later. If we're looking at your schedule or your rituals, actually, before we even get to that, you mentioned fearlessness. that would strike complete panic into my heart more than getting up on stage and doing stand-up,

where you really are not going to be given any mercy laughs by most people. I mean, you have to stand on your own merit. What are some instances where you have been most afraid on stage? There were a couple of times where I lost my voice and then I had to figure out how to do shows without having a voice. So I utilized some voice software in my computer and then I also brought people onto the stage who would act things out. Or I would actually act them out and they would read them from behind so it was like a puppet or something.

So that was helpful. But it was really terrifying to not have the capacity to deal with a heckler, which I'm very good at. It's one of my specialities. Or deal with kind of the immediacy of live performance. You know, it took away my spontaneity.

It took away just a lot of the kind of freshness and the unpredictability of what live performance instead of comedy is, which to me is the greatest part of it. So that was really terrible. And then I've, you know, that bad show. I mean, I, I, I probably have the worst shows of anybody in my category, you know, in, in, in the level that I am as a comedian, because I'm so committed to taking risks as a performer, I can really do terribly. And sometimes that can be really scary if you're, say, in different countries, like in England or Scotland, where there's a high anger factor if you don't do well in comedy. And, you know, I've had really bad fights in, you know, anger factor if you don't do well in comedy.

I've had really bad fights in a couple of instances where I was really scared for physical harm because I really was not... I give it to people. I really let them have it if I'm backed into a corner. And so

it can be really nuts. People can get really angry. When you said, and I'm just paraphrasing here, but I'd love for you to expand a bit on what you just mentioned related to sort of having the potential to do worst in your category or class of comic. Why do you have sort of higher crash and burn potential? Or what's the, why do you have the added risk factor? I think because I will come off of anything

scripted and I will go with the flow and then I will really engage with an audience in a very personal level. Like I'm not the kind of artist that can go on autopilot, which actually happens much more than people realize. Like I don't have, I don't really have that ability. So I build it from the ground up and I build it from scratch every time from, from the beginning. And so that in itself, it's a huge risk when you're not necessarily relying on the tried and true and things that you know work and you're going into everything with it. You really are plugging into something divine, but that divinity is not always reliable. We're human, so it can be really just very scary.

And I think that that's the energy that I thrive off of. That's what I love, but that innately is kind of a risky behavior. Sure, right. Yeah, you can be knocking for the muse and they might not be open for business, that particular evening. Talking about hecklers, so this I would love to dig into a little bit. What are your favorite ways of dealing with hecklers? I mean, is there a sort of a, you know, a Margaret Cho playbook?

Do you have any particular responses? If you're just like, you know what? I don't want to deal with this guy right now. I need to cut him off at the knees. What are some of the fastest ways of dealing with hecklers? And maybe there are different types of hecklers. I'm sure there are. But I'd love to hear a little bit about that.

Well, there's different types. But the best thing to do is to really just out and out engage somebody and really try to find out what they're trying to say. And so there's no set, like, plan. There's no set lines or there's no scripted idea of what to say to shut them down. It's really going deeper and finding out why this person was choosing to disrupt a performance that everybody has paid for, that everybody is there and agreed to sit for. Why does somebody want to rebel against that?

And so I'm curious about it. And I usually give them quite a lot of time. Like if I have, because there's a potential to create a whole show around them. And this is something I learned from, oh, it's great. I learned from Paula Poundstone, who's an absolute genius at that. I mean, she'll do a show, and if somebody gets up to go to the bathroom, she'll go to their chair, and she'll take their jacket and put it on and go through their pocket. And really just, I mean, she is so fearless when it comes to talking to an audience. And so I learned that from her. I mean, it doesn't have when it comes to talking to an audience. And so I learned that from her.

I mean, it doesn't have to detract from your performance. It can really be an incredible journey that will only be taken one time. And, you know, it's not to encourage echoing at shows, but sometimes it's really inevitable. So my goal is to just try to take that road as it presents itself if it doesn't work if that usually if the only reason it doesn't work is that the person is too drunk then i'll just have them kicked out right so that's a whole nother thing now if they're if they're not excessively drunk uh what type of question might you ask them or questions if they's like oh boo you know and you can tell

they're not totally drunk they're just being an idiot what what type of what type of question might you ask them or what might you say to them well i'll ask them you know why they're yelling out or what the what the purpose is of what they need you know and then i can ask them like about who they're with i can ask the person they're with about why they're saying that like why are they like that are they like this all the time is this a special thing and then i'll get an explanation from the partner or whatever it's very interesting you know and then you can also talk to other people around them like people that are seated next to them like what was this person like before the show what were they saying and what you know like what led

us to this and then somebody from another part of the room will complain about it and then you go over there and do the same thing. But it can be very, very interesting if you just utilize what they're saying and you incorporate it into what you're doing. And then if you have an encyclopedic knowledge of your jokes and therefore you can call on anything that you might have that would be relevant. But I love that immediacy. I think it is really what is great about stand-up comedy is that there's that potential to do anything.

Oh, sure. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, that's part of why I enjoy going to live shows. You really don't know how the movie is going to end. I mean, you have no idea how things are going to develop. Let's see here. Are there any particular, I'm just trying to think here, non-standup influences? So people who are not standup comics who have affected, and this could be movies, books,

anything, or people, but outside of the realm of comedy who have impacted how you perform, how you present, how you develop your material Oh I think Madonna is great, I love Chrissy Hines I love a lot of like female rock singers like they, I am a musician also so I get a lot of inspiration

from Bjork and you know like music is always really inspiring. And, you know, just like the performance style of somebody like Janis Joplin, I would love to capture as a comedian. That would be my ideal. If I could be a comedian that is what is Janis Joplin as a singer, that would be great.

So singers are incredibly influential. And I think it's because a long, long, long time ago, I happened upon a pet psychic who there was a, I had a dog who I loved very much. And, you know, it was she, it was like this television show about pet psychics. So I was doing it. I, I was talking to her and she said that my dog thought that I was a singer because dogs don't understand what stand-up comedy is. So I thought that was the sweetest explanation of what I do. He thought I was singing. You know, for him it is. It's gone.

You know, that's really, what type of dog? He died, but he was a big shepherd mix, like a big fluffy guy that you would get at the pound. It was kind of every dog at once, but he was the best. It makes me think of very, very early on for me when my first book had just come out in 2007. I was headed to South by Southwest for the first time to give my first real keynote. And I was extremely nervous. I was just a sweaty, nervous mess, even days beforehand. And I had no real way to rehearse in front of people. So I ended up going to my friend's garage. He had three Chihuahuas of different sizes. And I realized that if I focused on presenting to them that I assume they didn't understand a word, but if my

actual style of presentation was not really dynamic, they would get bored and walk away. But if I was really animated, they would sit there kind of bug-eyed and look at me. So I used the chihuahuas as my test audience for developing my material for that first keynote. That's perfect. That's so perfect. And it actually worked out extremely well because my tech failed. My laptop had some type of glitch and the projector wasn't working. So I had to go off. I had to go off script and I had to, to work without the tech. Uh, the, the, the question of, of fearlessness and being nervous on stage, uh, you, you are not shy, at least as people know you now about talking about race, gender, sexuality.

I mean, you really cross into all sorts of different worlds that, that many people I assume would avoid because they're, they're perceived as sensitive topics. Uh, were you ever nervous about broaching those types of subjects early on or have you from the very get go? No, it's a nerve wracking thing because, you know, you want to have a semblance of privacy. And then sometimes when you reveal things on stage that, you know, are pretty, they can,

it can be kind of weird. You know, like I, I think that, but I think that privacy is really overrated though, because it's just a kind of a social construct that doesn't really mean that much because all human beings are, we felt all the same things. We've had all the same heartbreaks and tragedies and dumb things and stupid things.

And, you know, we really are not, no, none of us are a stranger to that if you've lived at all, you know? So, um, you know, it's not like anything I say, it's not like something we haven't, everybody hasn't felt, but still things can feel odd and weird. But so I was more conscious of it when I was younger. Like I'm bisexual and I was really scared of revealing that for maybe the first 10 years of my career. Because I was told by my management then that it would be really bad to be gay in any way and that I should not express that. And so that was a really scary thing because, you know, in relationships with women and stuff,

I had to hide that, which always felt odd and weird, that I could have fine relationships with men and show that, but with women, it was somehow wrong. And so I really gave up trying to pretend that I was anything but myself very early. When did you make that leap? What was the year, roughly? I'm just trying to think of it in terms of the kind of cultural and political climate. When did you come out, so to speak, publicly? I think probably about 95, 96, something like that. 96.

So pretty early. Yeah, pretty early on. But then women are, now I realize, and I look back on, you know, women's bisexuality is a lot more, I don't know, it's a lot more easy to deal with or people have a harder time dealing with men and male sexuality and fluidity there. But what's hard is women who are just like, who just define as lesbians, they think they have a harder time as opposed to women who are bisexual. There's some kind of glamour and majesty attached to bisexual women that I'm not sure is true,

but it certainly exists as a kind of an archetype or stereotype, even. Oh, sure. I mean, I think that, you know, even in, I live in San Francisco. I've been there for ages. And I mean, it's sort of joked that, you know, bisexual women, no matter what, which is ridiculous, of course, but are, you know, often referred to as unicorns. And, you know, I think there's that, there's that, it sort of holds, occupies a very unique

place in the mind space of even mainstream America for whatever reason. But have you ever had disclosed anything on stage that at least for a period of time you regretted? um well i think that i earlier uh i'm working on a show that's really about um a mental illness and addiction which is part of the the sort of trajectory of the thing that i'm trying to explain and so i'm talking a lot about prescription pill addiction which i had a a really bad case of it where um i stopped a year ago, but before that, it had been about five years where I was really having a problem. But, you know, it's like one of those things where, you know, that addiction is really strange because it's so deadly and destructive just in the way that a heroin addiction would be. But, you know, it's prescribed by a

doctor and I was actually getting it from my actual doctor. would be, but, you know, it's prescribed by a doctor, and I was actually getting it from my actual doctor, and it was that, you know, that there was all of these levels of legitimacy to it and then secrecy as well, and so disclosing that is very... It's very weird because, you know, it really shatters a lot of these illusions of,

I don't know, maturity and, you know, being sane, like sanity and stuff. So, you know, that's another thing. Like it's hard to disclose, but it's also important to because that honesty keeps me not sober because I still drink red wine, but I think it keeps me sort of more sane than I would because it's a really crazy addiction to have. Yeah, I think it's very insidious, like you mentioned also, because it's extremely common, even among doctors themselves, extremely common, but it's not talked about nearly as much in detail

as you pointed out, for instance, compared to heroin addiction or something like that. What type of medication, just out of curiosity? Oh, everything like Percocet. You know, you can get, oh, you know, like you could get, oh, this is weird, but you know what Lean is or SysRp, which is like hydrocodone cough syrup? Yep, sure. That or even to morphine or methadone or anything kind of, any opiates, like that was really my problem, and it was really, really destructive. But at the same time, you don't exactly feel high.

So it's almost a cheat. Like you're actually not really high. You're just not sick. After you get properly addicted to those drugs, they really are no – they have no use at all. Right. As a kind of a high. They really only serve to keep you from being sick, which is a really bad thing. Yeah, just you need it to get to baseline to not have the physical withdrawal symptoms. Speaking personally, I think I've been very fortunate in a lot of respects, of course, but one is that hydrocodone, Vicodin, et cetera, all make me extremely nauseous. So all of the sort of opioid derivative drugs make me very,

very sick. And I learned that after shoulder surgery, I was given all these painkillers and I couldn't really take any of them because they made me so sick, which I think is a blessing in disguise in a lot of ways, because my likelihood of abusing those things is very, very low. Do you find, at least within the world of comedy, that people tend to, if they have addictive personalities, and I have no idea if addiction is more or less common in stand-up comics than the general population. Of course, a lot of the tragedies are highlighted, which I think might skew the public perception. But do people tend to be either addicted to sort of depressants and opiates or stimulants? I mean, do people often end up addicted to both, or do they tend to fall on one side or the other?

I think they tend to fall on one side or the other i think they tend to fall on one side or the other i mean i i myself can speak that i'm much more of a depressant i'm much more like a downer right like i've never been at cocaine or whatever you know that's never been my thing but then there's people who are just want everything. And then standup comics in particular, like our job is really to obsess on things. That's what standup comedy is. It's just obsessing over a topic. Right. You're just going crazy on something.

And, you know, that's fine in the context of standup comedy, but it's terrible if you're just living in the world. And so, you know, the, the, the, the connection with comedy comics being depressed and self-destructive and suicidal, it goes with the territory because the job requires that kind of thinking. So it can be pretty difficult to manage that. And then if you add drugs on top of that, it can be really, really hard. And then the lifestyle also, because it's very solitary, you're traveling

all the time, your sweep schedule is off. It's weird. So it's a jet lag and then also press and shows. So it's a very, it's a destructive and very difficult lifestyle, almost like being in a band, but you're not with anybody else. You're the only one. So, you know, as musicians are very legendarily known to be very self-destructive in the same way, at least they have a community with them on tour, even if it's just a few guys in a van. You know, so we don't have that. As comics, we're just alone, and it can be really messy. Definitely. And I think that perhaps to a lesser degree, you see some very similar symptoms of problems surfacing in a lot of writers as well, particularly writers who

develop a habit of, I mean, number one, they're going to be isolated almost by definition. And that's part of the reason that I'm taking a break from writing books, quite frankly, is because three years at a stretch inside your own head is sometimes a scary place to be. And particularly those writers who develop a late night writing schedule, which is something that I have, I think are prone to bouts of depression and darkness. And I mean, of course, there's a sort of long history of people like Hemingway who end up not at a very positive punchline at the end of things. Yeah.

Personality-wise, do you find that there are certain characteristics that are common among the people, the stand-up comics who are addicted to stimulants versus depressants? I mean, do you find that there's, you can kind of guess which people are going to go one way or the other? Yeah, I think that people who are really ADD, you know, who are really kind of scatterbrains and their minds are everywhere. I think that just like hyperactive kids are given Ritalin and Adderall. I think they're really helped or they tend to crave stimulants because it focuses them. Right. And then I think that people who are pretty focused but depressed and kind of moody, minor chord, like downward gazing, bummed out people are really helped and lifted by opiates because they offer these injections of endorphins, which is something that they're either lacking, like their serotonin is messed up or whatever, they're just not getting it.

And then the positivity that, or the burst of positivity that an opiate can give you, of course, which is countered by terrible depression, which is actually worse than your baseline, makes everything way, way worse. You know, I can see why that would be attractive. I mean, that's what I have. You know, I'm kind of, I have that kind of a downward sort of thing. I take some effort to look for positivity and also for gratitude, which is why I'm so grateful for my own gratitude and why I need it so much.

For sure. for sure uh how did you how did you just what was the catalyzing moment that led you to start taking your prescription drug addiction seriously how did and then how did how did you end up kicking it what was what did that look like um well i just really uh i i i just really had no idea how much i was taking i really had no idea how much I was taking. I really had no idea what I was taking. I didn't understand the contraindications, like the complete, like, crazy, you know, things that I was doing like all this Ambien, which is another thing, which I think is actually very, very dangerous drug that people, many, many people are very dependent on. But I also have a very, I have a bad insomnia problem. And so, but that in combination with opiates is a deadly thing.

You know, my friend Anna Nicole Smith died from that. And really it was that kind of suicidal behavior of taking so much pills and not knowing if I would wake up and not really thinking I would wake up. I think that that was really, it just became really apparent. So I just kind of, I threw everything away. And then, you know, I told everybody in my, around me, my circle and I, you know, my work and, you know, I told everybody around me, my circle, you know, my work, and, you know, I was talking about it on stage, and I made it very clear that this is a problem that I was going through. And I think just making it not a secret anymore was really what it was all about.

When I wasn't having to hide the sick or talk, you know, if I talked about it, then it really resolved the situation. I fortunately was able to just walk away and I was very sick for a time because it's the natural, you know, that's what happens when you take those drugs. But afterwards, I was much better and I didn't have a kind of a need to go fast to it or a sense that this was going to be repeated. So, you know, it wasn't like I went to rehab and it wasn't like I sought treatment, which most people should, but I just was able to escape, fortunately. How did you, well, the day that you threw out all of your medication, why that day? Was there, did you scare yourself somehow?

Was there a conversation? Did you look in the mirror and see something you hadn't noticed before? Why that day? I just think that there was so many patches in my memory that I didn't understand why I didn't remember and I didn't understand. Like I could feel the whatever the degeneration of my brain. I could really feel it. I can really sense that. I don't think I'm going to get that part of my brain back.

Like I really felt an emptiness. Like I cleared out like I had deleted files that i didn't want to delete yikes and that was so terrible you know when you just have like a blank space when you should have something there and um evidence that things that were not going wrong like room service i don't know that i ordered and um you know like weird photos on my phone that I don't know who these people are and why I have them. Right. Um, and weird sexual situations that were like, I should not, or like, who, who, who

am I talking to in this manner that I don't remember even meeting? Like what, what is going on? Like all these things at once. Right. Um, and you go, I, I have to get out of this. This is really a weird space because it's almost like somebody takes over your body for you and drives it. And that's really strange. No, I agree. And I've seen, just speaking of Ambien, I've been on trips before with friends where I've seen

them come downstairs after going to sleep, like the walking dead on Ambien, go crazy doing all sorts of ridiculous things for hours, go back to their year and a half ago, died of an accidental contraindication. He had had a lot of alcohol, never took any illicit drugs or recreational drugs. And he was complaining to a buddy of his about a headache. And his buddy gave him a very strong prescription depressant. And he took it, never woke up and that was it it just took one shot so yeah people need to take the alcohol interactions really seriously and oh yeah that's that's a mate that's a major major problem um with alcohol and uh ambient and also opiates too i mean the whole thing wrecks your liver but But on top of that, it's a judgment that goes completely out the window.

Like, you don't know what you're doing. There's something that alcohol does in that it just really messes everything up. Yeah, for sure. Well, I think it's a very important sort of topic to explore for folks, but to switch gears a little bit, because I'm, I'm, I'm constantly impressed with how prolific you are and have been. What is, what does your process look like for developing material? So let's just say that you've just finished, uh, you, you've just finished a special or you just finished, you basically aced whatever you'd been working on for the last X period of time.

And it's time for you to start over. You have that feeling. What does the process look like? How do you come up with your material? Well, usually, we'll probably involve a trip to San Francisco, actually. Where I just started recently. I came back to the city, and I hung out with old comedian friends I haven't seen for a while. There's a lot of little shows that happen.

There's the Deluxe on Haight Street, and then know, a bunch of different kinds of nights that happen usually from like Sunday to Wednesday, which is for comedians are days off. And so that's when I'll start to go to these like little kind of clubs in the city and work things out. So I'll like kind of put together just everything new, you know, just out of notes that I have. And I'll do that and I'll do that in different cities, and then I'll work them into my larger performances where I will have some, like, level of prepared material, but then I'll also work on the new script from anything

and also improvise where I am. And it just grows, you know, but usually it's built from a small, you know, maybe two or three jokes, and it'll grow into an hour of comedy that would be ready. It would take about maybe a year to make it really perfect because I would take it internationally and make sure that it is great, and then I would actually commit it to either a special or album or something like that.

Now, do you take it international before you test it on the main stage in the US? Do you use internationals? Yes. So that's really interesting. That's the first I've heard of that. And a lot of folks may not realize that even companies like Nike, for instance, will do tons of testing in places like New Zealand, smaller English-speaking countries to refine the products and marketing and positioning and everything that they then bring back to the US,

but they don't want to have their debutante ball in the major leagues. That's really interesting. Right. Yeah, it's great because what's great about going internationally is part of the the joy of performing there the audiences are so grateful that you came that they will give you some they caught you some slack you know like it's a great thing because you can actually um negotiate a a kind of a like a nice workshop with them because they they're they they know how far away it is. They know you don't have to tour there, but they know you from whatever different thing, and they're so glad that you're there.

So for me, it's a great, great thing, and it's not something that a lot of comedians from America do. So I, for some reason, have the ability to travel, and I get to do many, many countries in Europe, except the only countries I haven't done shows in are like Italy and Spain, which it just gets, the market gets very different there. But every place else has been really fantastic.

And Australia also. I had to cancel a New Zealand tour because I was doing like a TV show, but I definitely look forward to going back there. But international markets are really wonderful for me to work out what I want to do in the future. What makes Spain and Italy so different? I'm very curious. I think because of the Catholicism that it makes it difficult for women to talk about sex in the way that I do.

Right. You know, I very, very, like, this is a joke that I do. Right. You know, I'm very, very, like, this is a joke that I'm telling you. I don't even know if I should tell this joke, but I just, it's like, I haven't had sex in a really long time. Not a really long time, but I was upset because Robin Williams died and Joan Rivers died, and I can't, I couldn't, I don't want to, you know?

And I just didn't feel like it. And so I was out to dinner in severed to scope um not long ago and i was with two gay guys which is my way i love gay men these guys i love we're at the house of prime rib which is excellent oh it's fantastic yeah i know exactly what it is good it's really good and we're eating and then the sommelier is so cute. You know, I'm talking to him. And then I thought he was so adorable. And then he was really young, too. And we left.

And then my friends were like, well, you know, they're trying to encourage me. Like, you should talk to him because he really likes you. I was like, oh, he's too young. And I don't want to. And one of them went back and gave the guy my phone number. And I was like, whatever. And then so anyway, I went back to phone number. And I was like, whatever. And then so anyway, I went back to my hotel. And it was like 1 in the morning.

And the guy actually called me, which was amazing. I thought it was so brave. So he came over. And it was wonderful. It was so great. It was like a therapy dog. I don't think you can tell that joke. And it's not a joke. It's a true story. But I don't think you can tell that joke. And it's not a joke. It's true story. But I don't think you could tell that joke in Italy. I don't think you can tell that joke in

Spain without some kind of repercussions of people getting really angry. Like, what are you doing? Like, how can you just do that? You know, I'm a 45 year old woman. I, I'm really, you know, I feel right to me that he was much younger than me. I really should have had sex with his father. It was not right, but it was really what I needed. So, you know, I wonder about that. I mean, given the intensity of porn that comes out of Italy, not that I would know anything about that, but just I'm astonished that they would be so judgmental to people on the stage. But I guess there is the public facing laughing and then there's the private porn viewing.

And maybe those are two different mentalities. Go figure. I think that's two different things. And also, you know, it goes with the language, too. And also, I think it's hard for American comics just in general, but especially somebody that's really brash and talking about sexuality and how it isn't a shameful thing. It's a little bit much for that. So those markets have always been a little bit harder for me. Which markets on the flip side,

which countries respond best to the brash sex talk and everything else? Sweden, France is incredible. Germany is probably the best, but Finland, definitely Norway is amazing. All of Scandinavia is so down with it. You know, they're so excited. Just Denmark is incredible. I think they've traditionally been very, very sex positive. I mean, their history in porn is pretty amazing.

So that's a great place to go to. But a lot of, like, you know, kind of sort of northern, kind of the colder countries. But I think Germany maybe will be the ultimate place because there's so much kind of liberal thought there, so much a kind of ease about sexuality there that is really amazing. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned Denmark. Those are my people. That's probably half my bloodline. That's why I have that big blockish sort of Lego head as courtesy of my Danish genetics.

I didn't get the height though. That's kind of a rip off. I got the, you know, I got the gigantic head, the sort of a spudge pants, square bob or whatever his name head, but without the height. So it goes. When, just a little bit, to jump to a different type of question,

when you think of the word successful, who's the first person who comes to mind and why? Oh, well, I guess it would be Steve Jobs. But that would be that, you know, somebody that's so successful beyond

and also this visionary that became kind of a legendary being that was like beyond human. So I think that would be my definition of success. Somebody that sort of like crosses the line from like business to art to, I don't even know what that is, you know, that kind of visionary. It's pretty profound.

Do you feel successful? I think a lot of people would consider you successful. Do you feel successful yourself? Oh, absolutely. I know that I am. You know, I'm very grateful for that. And I know that that's an achievement, that there are much, much higher levels of success I would like to achieve but then

you know i know slouch especially because i'm probably of my peers the one who sustained it the longest you know that that i have been pretty active and out there you know very very visibly for the last 20 years and so that's a good thing. Yeah. It's hard to make, it's hard to string it together for that long for sure. Yeah. Yeah. If, um, if you could change or improve one thing about yourself, what would that be? Oh, well, I would like to have, um, a lower percentage of body fat, which is why I'm doing four hour body. Well, awesome. Well, you know, you mentioned before we started recording that you had some food questions. I'm happy to answer those, obviously. Well, when you talk about maybe several months,

four or five months, and it's a big difference. But I try to go for the free day, the cheat day, and I dread it. I'm afraid of it. It doesn't feel good to me because any kind of flour or excessive amounts of sugar, they taste so good, but they don't feel good in my body. And I wonder if there's a way to manage, I have a better digestion during that time. But it just doesn't feel good to me.

Sure. No, I can comment on that. So the cheat day is designed to do a few things. The first is based on the assumption that people are going to cheat no matter what, and you can contain the damage if you schedule it in advance. So that's sort of principle number one. Principle number two is that by spiking caloric intake once a week, you can help to prevent a lot of kind of downgrading of the metabolism, whether that's thyroid or otherwise. There are people out there who say, for instance, well, I'm only going to have one cheat meal instead of a cheat day to limit the damage that I do.

I only recommend that to people if that means they won't succumb to cravings later in the week. So by being disgusted once a week, it's not mandatory, but typically what happens is exactly what you're describing. So people start to dread overdoing it on cheat day and they naturally start to dial it back a little bit. Uh, and in the beginning when people are most likely to quit any diet in the first two to three weeks, that cheat day is so overdone. They're just so disgusted the, that, that evening and the following day, they can't wait to get back to a cleaner type of eating because they just feel better. Uh are ways to cheat, so to speak, to spike the caloric intake without having some of the digestive issues, if that is a problem. For a lot of people,

that means simply avoiding gluten, among other things. So for instance, if I know that I have to have a lot of work done on a Sunday or a Monday, just the day after a cheat day, I will focus on, say, carbs or carb-rich foods like sweet potatoes or brown rice or even white rice, as opposed to getting it from wheat, flour, things of that type that are, I know, going to just put up a huge fight going through my digestive tract. So there are definitely ways to do it and minimize some of the discomfort while still checking the boxes that prevent you from cheating later. Another, another recommendation is that you can make the first meal of the day, a slow carb compliant meal. Uh, and a very easy way to do that is to, um, just this, for instance, you could have a, a small amount of lentils out of a can. I mean,

literally this is something I'll do oftentimes is I will have, and there, there are a lot of reasons for this, but the fiber and, uh, which is important for kind of gut flora and, uh, bacterial balance in the GI tract, you could have just spoon out of a can, literally, uh, lentils in the morning with maybe one or two eggs. And that will, that will naturally inhibit your appetite, uh, later in the day. So you'll be able to cheat, but you'll be less prone to put, you know, to ingesting the last 2000 calories of, you know, Rocky road ice cream with Snickers on top or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's usually, I think for a lot of people, they, they do cheat day. They get to a point where they're like, holy shit, I am about to explode. And they look at the clock and they're like, but it's 10 o'clock.

I have two more hours to go. I can't, I can't let cheat day end without giving it one last hurrah. And it's just, it's, it's that last extra serving or that last Guinness or whatever that just takes them from about to explode to just complete insulin coma. So the slow-carb compliant meal early in the day can help. The grapefruit juice plus caffeine early in the day because of the naringenin and all of that can also help because it will stabilize somewhat your blood sugar and your insulin response. So those are a few recommendations. There are lots of ways to customize cheat day, but the most important, I think, the most important thing to realize about cheat day is

that you should not feel like you are restricting yourself on cheat day. That's the most important thing. So some people will try to do a healthy cheat day, but then they have a to eat list of all these things that they don't want to give up and they end up cheating on a Wednesday night or a Thursday night. And like most people who do that, they say, ah, fuck it. I already had one cookie. I'm going to have, now I'm going to have the rest of all these Girl Scout cookies because I already fucked up. And then they backslide and they don't stick with it. So as long as you don't feel like you are, you have secret cravings that you're not satisfying during cheat day, you can pretty much do whatever you want. Well, what's interesting about the diet or just the way it is in my body is that I don't

have any cravings but i just don't i don't actually care i do the cheat day because it tastes good but it's not because i had a craving you know it's out of just i do it because it's going to help my help my overall process um which is i think i think that's what's the best thing about it for me is that I don't have that need for pasta or bread that I did before although it still tastes really good when I have it um that's just the need for it I you know the things that you think you can't give up before you start it and then you start it and then your idea about food changes yeah yeah definitely and and it And it's very much

a combination of biochemistry and psychology, right? I mean, you have a certain shift where I think the biochemical changes and the physiological changes precede the psychological realization that you don't need certain things. So you have a certain chemical dependency,

just like getting off of prescription medications. You have a certain chemical dependency, which could be related to the types of refined carbohydrates that people are accustomed to eating for breakfast, which sets the stage for the rest of the day and makes them fall asleep at 1.30 or 2 p.m. But when you start to add in the protein, the fat, and fiber, then those type of dramatic glucose swings start to level out. And as your pancreas becomes resensitized, or at least you develop some degree of insulin sensitivity again, your body stops having to work so hard and it prevents a lot of the roller coasters. And then, like you said, about a week into it, two weeks into it, you're like, wow, I don't crave those foods I thought I would crave forever. And yeah, it's really fascinating.

And the entire diet is really designed to have the highest compliance rate possible. And I think this is sometimes lost on, say, paleo or vegan purists who want everyone to convert to a very inconvenient diet on day one. And my point is the good program you follow is better than the perfect program that you quit. And the slow-carb diet is a great gateway drug in a positive sense for getting people to eliminate the vast amount of garbage that they consume. Right, right. Yeah, that's how I think. It's really, it's very helpful. I think the strangest thing that is that I'm really not hungry. Yeah.

It's a really weird thing because I was like starving all the time. And I'm like, why do I? I mean, obviously, there's reasons why. It's like I don't have that. If I I just don't. I'm never really hungry ever. Even when I haven't eaten for several hours, it somehow sustains my system. It just burns.

Yeah. And I'm not desperate for food. It's a really cool, I think for a lot of people, a very cool realization of self-sufficiency that people do not experience hunger in the same way. It becomes a very different experience. And part of that is you're using things like not experience hunger in the same way. It becomes a very different experience. And, uh, you know, part of that is you're using things like cheat day and you're using in some cases supplements,

but certainly not necessary at all to change how, how your, your, your brain and your body, uh, produce and respond to hormones like Graylin and all sorts of other things. And what's really cool about it, recently I did a seven-day water fast. So I went seven days with nothing besides water, with no supplementation, no electrolytes, no anything. And because of the indirect training of the slow-carb diet and effectively readying my system for that type of experience. It really wasn't terribly difficult. And I'm not recommending anyone do that without medical supervision, but the, the, the body becomes very, very resilient. And, uh, the, the, one of the questions that I get before people start things in the, in the body, particularly this low-carb diet, is what do I eat for snacks? And my answer is, if you're eating enough and you should be eating

enough at your meals, you're not going to be hungry. You don't need snacks. And typically, what people realize is that the snacking is a compulsive habitual behavior. It's not because they are hungry. They're basically feeding their pancreas, not their stomach, if that makes sense, because their insulin response is so out of whack. And once you fix that, it's like, oh, I want to have a bowl of fill-in-the-blank crap next to my computer because that's my habit, but I'm not actually hungry. Right. And then it puts into question, what is food for anyway? Right.

You know, like there's a, you know, it's a cool thing. Yeah, yeah. And my, you know, one of the ways to modify cheat day so so that it's, it's, it's, uh, more rewarding and less disgusting. Although I think that, that getting people to the, Oh my God, I'm so disgusted with myself point is actually very valuable in the first few weeks. But when you graduate from that, you're like, okay, I've covered the, I'm disgusted with myself, uh, checkbox. Like I want to be more functional, uh, towards the latter third of my cheat day. You can start to set rules for yourself, such as the food either has to be really good for me or it has to be fucking delicious.

And the fucking delicious part is important because people on cheat day will often just shovel whatever shitty food is in front of them or around them right into their maw and it gets really gross. So when you, and I would say, you know, in the same way that you're looking for, um, high quality, if you choose to eat meat and I eat meat that you choose to try to find high quality meat, right? So if I'm in San Francisco, I'm going to look for grass fed beef. I'm going to look for so on and so forth. Similarly, if you're cheating, you can do the same thing and you can say, all Francisco, I'm going to look for grass fed beef. I'm going to look for so on and so forth. Similarly, if you're cheating, you can do the same thing and you can say, all right, I'm going to have pasta, but I want pasta made from fresh ingredients from that, that, that, that, that. So I'm going to go to, you know, flour and water, and this is just a restaurant in San Francisco and I'm going to get pasta there. Or I want ice cream and I want high quality ice cream. I'm not just going to go to Safeway and eat five gallons of the cheapest crap I can find. You know, I'm going to go to buy right or whatever. And it might be a

little bit more expensive, but I'm going to get higher quality raw ingredients. I'm going to have cheat meals, but I'm going to have fewer, uh, preservatives and artificial sweeteners and all that shit. Um, so there are definitely ways to make your cheat day a little more regal. Yeah, that's better. Yeah. It really is a real treat and a real luxury, but I've avoided my last couple of cheat days because it just really made me sick. And, you know, the food program reminds me a bit of when you go to Overeaters Anonymous, there's a very specific, there's two kind of sects of Overeaters Anonymous.

One is called How and one is called the Cambridge Group, where it's just a food plan that you cannot deviate from. You just can never deviate from. But this gave people a lot of freedom from the addictive properties of eating. And so, you know, in a sense, it reminds me of that. And that, like, now that the food is out of the way, the obsessing about food is out of the way,

now I can actually, like, live my life, which I think is really a wonderful thing. No, I mean, and that makes me, I mean, that makes my day, it makes my week just to hear that. It's a liberating point for people to reach. And what I've found is that a lot of behavioral, a lot of systems of behavioral change that have existed for many decades are completely just scientifically off base.

They haven't really been tested. So the idea that you can take someone who's accustomed to eating a horrible diet and put them on a strict vegetarian diet, and they're going to adhere to that, it will have less than a 10% success rate. You can't start there. It's very difficult. And if you want, if you want 500 out of a thousand people to succeed instead of a hundred out of a thousand, then you provide them with sort of a graduated approach.

And I think there's, I think there is an incredible tactical application of excess, right? So people will say, well, everything in moderation. I'm like, actually, I don't think that humans are good at moderation. So that's why it's easier to go a month without alcohol than having one drink a day. If you're an alcoholic, it's, I actually, you know, and, um, I, there, there are many examples of this, but my, you know, my, my mom was cured of smoking at one point because her, her parents, and I'm not saying this is a great in general parenting approach, but they said to all the siblings, they said, oh, found out that one

of you likes to smoke. Well, here's a box of cigars and you guys can have all of the cigars. And when you're done, then you can come upstairs. And man, they did not touch anything for a very, very, very long time. And again, not recommending that very old school, but psychologically, the cheat day for the first two or three weeks is achieving something very similar. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm thrilled that you've been with it for a few months. Obviously, I'm always happy to answer questions. I never get tired of talking about this stuff, unlike email autoresponders and all that stuff from the first book, which kind of bores me to tears at this point, the physiological stuff is so rewarding. And because it's, it's a tangible, visible result, right? And when people go on it, I mean,

you do get immediate feedback. And it's really, really awesome. And for those, for those, um, this is particularly true, um, for certain, uh, nationalities. And I mean, there's obviously genetic differences, but for, for a lot of women out there who might get discouraged early on, um, part of the reason for the first, say 10 to 14 days that some women in particular do not see a dramatic weight change on the scale is because they're increasing their protein intake and they're actually losing a lot of visceral fat, number one, so organ fat, and number two, putting on a, which is a very positive thing in almost every case. Uh, and it's, and then they start to see the, the subcutaneous fat, the, you know, the fat under the skin, which is more visible in the mirror, obviously, uh, start to drop off in sort of weeks, uh, two and three. And that's why it's so important. Uh, I think for a lot of people to really take stock of how they feel. Like you noticed the impulse, sort of the desire, the unnecessary hunger going away. To take note of those things and instead of looking at the scale, because it's such a blunt instrument and it can be very misleading.

Yeah, I don't weigh myself at all. I can see the changes in the way that my clothes are fitting differently. I'm wearing much more smaller sizes, and I can tell in the way that I look, and I don't really need to see it. I know that when I'm exercising more, that it's definitely a much more um visible but uh and also when I'm like the laying off and sometimes I'll get lazy and I'll just eat like

beef jerky or something like that which is not the best of all the stuff in it but you know that there there's like when I when I really take the time to make my own food and stuff, that's when I can really see a huge difference. It's that when I get lazy, like, you know, there's like the salad dressings and stuff like that, which probably have hidden sugar in that. You know, so I can definitely backslide there, but not that much either. If you're not eating anything that was in breading or anything like that, you know, or like sausage with flour, then that's not too bad. But it can be really, you can actually have pretty luxurious time eating on program, not even on a cheat day. Oh, definitely. And most people, if I go out to a meal with almost anyone at any restaurant, they never ask me about my diet because they don't realize that

I'm even on a diet generally. It's very flexible. And I would say to people out there also who are thinking of going on any type of diet, and here's the thing, even if you're not on a diet, you're on a diet. I mean, diet is really in the scientific sense, just the, the food that you habitually consume. So you're on a diet one or the other, uh, but you have to rig the game in the beginning so that you can win, right. At least for the first few weeks. And so for instance, I, I would like to say that I'm, uh, you know, whipping up a food network worthy meal, every meal and just, you know, slicing and dicing. And it's, you know, it's And it's worthy of recording for posterity, but it's not. I'm lazy like everybody else. And so if you were to look in my refrigerator right

now, literally I have single serve guacamole and single serve black bean hummus from I think BJ's or one of these discount clubs. I've got some leftover chicken wrapped up in some plastic foil and a handful of other things. And then I have a few supplements that are on hand, like glutamine and whatnot, so that I do, I've done no cooking today and I'm not hungry. Uh, and that's totally okay. It's totally okay. I have, there are other, I, there are readers who have literally, I kid you not, uh, lost, you know, 50 to 100 pounds, and the only beans that they consume, and you don't have to eat a ton of beans, but the only beans they've consumed are refried beans.

It doesn't have to be fancy. So in any case, I am thrilled that you're making progress and obviously I'm happy to help anytime. But let me ask you on the meal side of things. If you had your last meal, you're in death row, what are you going to go out with? What's your last meal? Oh, I think I would really

want to have the farfalla with salmon and vodka. You know, the penne alla vodka. That's my favorite. with salmon and vodka, you know, or the penne alla vodka. That's my favorite. The salmon and vodka cream sauce with the pasta is so good. And so that's probably that. And then maybe some kind of a bread thing.

Not so many sweets, I guess. Maybe a little, but I don't really, I don't know. The pasta is the thing. Oh, yeah. But, you know, again, it's like I don't really, I so don't crave it like I used to. Like I used to have to have it once a day at least, like pasta salad or, you know, some kind of thing, breakfast pasta. Oh, that's so, you know, you, have breakfast with us. But I mean, it's like so weird how I just don't have an, I don't want, I don't even care.

You know, it's really weird. It's crazy. It's crazy when that, yeah, when that type of shift happens. Do you have a favorite curse word? Is there any one sort of curse word or insult that you're like, God, I love it. It just rolls off the tongue. This is really a keeper for me. It just resonates.

I think the one that always gives it is, oh, fuck. Oh, fuck. Oh, fuck, oh, fuck, fuck. That's the one that I think I use the most, which is probably the one that everybody uses the most, I think. It's a very flexible word. You know, it can take many different forms. I think that's part of why it's so useful. Yeah, it's like positive and negative,

and then it can be romantic, which is really funny. Yeah. You know, it can be actually like the most romantic thing that you can say? And it's totally weird. Like it could be really the most horrible thing you could say to somebody. But the best thing too. So I really love the user-friendly quality of the word. Of the word fuck.

Of the word fuck. There's a wonderful little book called English as a Second Fucking Language, and it talks about all of the uses of the word fuck. Because you think about it, it's actually very, very particular, right? Because you can say, that's fucking incredible. But you can't say, that's incredible. There are ways, very specific ways that you can use it or not use it. That's unbelievable a fucking bull. Nah, it doesn't really work, right?

So you really have to, you've sort of developed a fluency at a certain point as a native English speaker with that word. I find the Australians are really fond of it. But, yeah, just an observation. It's a great word. It's my favorite, yeah. It's a great word. It's my favorite. Yeah, a good one. So if you could, I want to be, I know you have a show coming up and that you probably want to do some prep for that.

Speaking of which, just a few more questions. But if you look at your best performances in the, say, hour before you go on stage, what are the commonalities? Like, what gets you in the zone? What rituals or routines do you have? Usually, it's just a nice meal. Sometimes, I'll have a book.

Sometimes, I'll just be reading backstage, which is a really nice thing to do. Sometimes, it's very busy. You know, you can never really predict. There's no, I have to perform so much that there's no way that I can regulate that hour before because it's always a different situation. You know, different city or different social situation, different social setting. I'm coming from something else. So there's really no way to gauge, but I like to have, you know,

sometimes a bit of wine, a bit of red wine. Any particular type of red wine? I like something like a Shiraz or a Melbeck. Oh, yes. Good choice. Dry, not sweet. Just something that's very

hearty but flavorful but not like a grape juice. Very, very intense wine. That would be nice. If you're able to read, type of book would, uh, would you choose? Um, Oh, I love biographies. And, um,

so I'm reading right now how to be a movie star, which is like all about Elizabeth Taylor. I think it's really fascinating. Um, um, I love movie star biographies and the way that Hollywood was to people like Liberace and Elizabeth Taylor and these kinds of

figures who were very flamboyant and symbolic at the time, but led pretty tortured lives, too. So that to me is really interesting. So I like that kind of stuff. Do you know people who are operating at the higher level in Hollywood who are not tortured? It just seems like it's a tortured town in a lot of ways.

But are there people who come to mind who are very successful in some capacity in Hollywood who are not tortured? And if so, why are they not tortured? I don't know. I think that there is a high lot of, you know, a lot of people who have taken measures to help themselves, like whether it's through sobriety or some kind of program or even some kind of a religion that makes things a little bit better. I do see happiness out there. You know, I do see a lot of joy in regards to work. But, you know, sometimes the more brilliant somebody is, the more crazy they are, too. So we don't really have a really good handle on people in real life. The most well-adjusted person the nicest and well-adjusted and famous and successful uh

was probably dave grohl from the fruit flyers he is uh the most sunny individual i've ever met and so generous and kind and really one of the most uh fantastic artists of all time oh he's incredible yeah just just phenomenal. Now, do you think that, why do you think he is that way? Because of course, I mean, he's seen some dark things, no doubt. He's seen some very dark things. I think he allows himself to just be, you know,

and I think that part of it is also drummers tend to be very positive people and I think it is the physical activity. I think it is that drummers tend to be very positive people and i think it is the physical activity i think it is that high intensity interval training that is drumming that makes them like that you know that's a great observation i never really thought of it that way but that that actually makes perfect sense to me yeah interesting i need to get a very positive yeah get a drum set i need to well i have some hand drums i got, I got to tell you. The difference between a day of even 10 minutes of drumming and a day of no drumming is very, very stark. I mean, it is, I think, the physical movement and using the hands for something other than pecking at a keyboard, for sure.

Yeah, for sure. So on that note, I'll let you, I'll let you get off the phone, but where can people find more from you, learn more about you? Where can people check out what you're up to? Well, my website is margaretshow.com and that's where all my tour dates are. I have some blog, blog stuff up there. I have a kind of everything photos photos, and, you know, just like kind of an overview of what I do. And then I have, I'm on Twitter at Margaret Cho, and I'm on Facebook at Margaret Cho. And that's, I do a bit of Instagram.

It's Margaret underscore Cho. But yeah, that's all my stuff. And I'm very active everywhere there. You know, I really enjoy that too. So, um, you know, I, I, I get a lot, it's funny how it's much easier. Life is when you can verify people on Twitter, you know, because it's like, it's like, Oh, you know, it's like, Oh yes, it really is that person's like, it's like you can really see them.

So it makes life much easier. Yeah, it certainly does. And thank you so much for making the time. Hopefully next time you're in SF, we can share a glass or two or three of wine. I would love to toast to my four-hour body, which is, you know, you will see me and I think that you will be really excited

because from my photographs, from like stuff that I've done, will be really excited because you from my photographs from like stuff that I've done you can really tell the difference and I haven't had like a photo shoot or anything so I look forward to that so that you can see what um things have things have done you know it's also given me a lot made me feel a lot younger too which is I appreciate so thank you oh my pleasure thank you for putting the words into action. I just write a bunch of stuff down on a couple of pages, but no, this really makes my entire week and we can decide whether it's going to be a cheat meal or a, or standard compliant, slow carb meal. But either way,

I would love to, would love to join you for a bite or drink. And thank you so much for the time. So I'll let you get ready for your gig, everybody. Check out Margaret online, and I'll put a bunch of links in the show notes as well. And until next time, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much.