The Toast - Bridget to Terabithia with Jessica Knoll: Thursday, October 6th, 2022

Episode Date: October 6, 2022

Tom Brady Hires a Divorce Lawyer After Gisele Bundchen Retains Her Own (PEOPLE) (23:38) Fat Joe says he won't change his name even though he's no longer fat (Page Six) (31:42) Survivors of 1994 killing that's now subject of Kim Kardashian's Spotify podcast say no one contacted them (Daily Mail) (34:55) Scammer Anna Delvey granted bail, if she can find a place to stay (Page Six) (39:04) Patreon's deals with top TikTokers fell far short of expectations, leaked documents show (Business Insider) (42:36) - Real Housewives of Beverly Hills Recap (51:45) - Real Housewives of Salt Lake City Recap (59:06) - Interview with Jessica Knoll  (1:02:50) The Toast with Jackie  (@JackieOshry) and Claudia Oshry  (@girlwithnojob)  NLOG Tickets Merch The Toast Patreon Girl With No Job by Claudia OshrySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Good morning, Millennials. Welcome back to the Toast. Happy Thursday. Hope everyone's having a blessed day. I know we are because we are now the furthest away we will ever be this year from Yom Kippur 2023. We're done. You're done.

We're done. It was a rough day yesterday. It was. I don't know where your fast ranks compared to all your other fasts, but for me, this was absolutely the hardest one yet. Probably because I had to, I woke up at 7.30 with rolled and I didn't really get to nap. And the night before I had a migraine and then I went to sleep and I woke up feeling better. But then the events of the day, no water, no coffee, no food gave me

another migraine. I had a migraine for 24 hours and it was miserable. For me, shockingly, the most difficult part of yesterday was not the lack of food. It was the lack of phone. The lack of the talk. I don't think I've ever had a more difficult time spending the whole day off of my phone. I felt so disconnected.

I was ill-prepared. I was just shook. I've never had an easier time being off my phone I felt so disconnected I was ill prepared I was just shook I've never had an easier time being off my phone usually I'm weirded out by how much I miss it on Yom I'm like wow okay maybe I have a phone addiction I barely even noticed yesterday which was so unexpected but good I think that means that my addiction is dissipating I'm sorry for you. Not me. I was not okay. But we all have our struggles. I was not okay. I'm sorry. And if you could count the amount of times I thought about like picking up my phone and

being like, oh, it must have been 42,000. That's crazy. Does that make you want to make any changes? No. No. Yeah. It makes me want to convert so I never have to do it again. Ha!

Ha! Well, okay. Well, at least now you're back with your phone reunited. And it feels so good. I love you, bitch. I'm sorry I left you alone for 24 hours. I hope you were okay. You don't know what you got till it's gone.

So true. I'm so glad that's behind us to our Jewish toasters. You did it. We did it. And we don't have to do it again for another year. So now I can breathe. And actually I felt like it was a really productive day in terms of atoning. I felt very toneful. Um, and I feel really good about kicking off this, this new year with positive energy and happy vibes. And I'm so looking forward to now getting

back to talking shit without feeling guilty like it was not working for me tabula rasa so what are you going to do in this new year be mindful of that you've been doing in the past that you needed to atone for like nothing no I'm totally kidding um I think I don't really it wasn't like specific things you know it was just like a general being yeah yeah you know yeah it's not like you know I want to you know commit less crimes you know like I don't really have specific like do you feel like you want to talk less shit no because I like it. I like the beat.

I actually don't even think we talk that much shit. Like we don't just talk shit for shit's sake, but we. No, I definitely think we talk a lot of shit. On the show or in private? No, no. I think on the show we're like super like good I agree okay I was talking about on the show in our personal lives like on FaceTime like we are animals that's true okay let me ask you a question is it talking shit if you're spitting facts and merely exchanging information no I don't think that's considered gossip. I think gossip is like opinions.

But if you're just like stating a fact, an unfortunate, hurtful fact. Yeah, I think gossip is like spreading rumors, not exchanging information. Not exchanging information and telling the truth and the truth only. You know, I always have a hard time deciphering like truly. And I mean this genuinely. Like what is like gossip and what is just facts? Because facts because like okay let's say someone we know is getting divorced and like it's like they're not hiding it like they're getting divorced but like I tell my friend who doesn't know I'm exchanging information but I'm also gossiping I think just telling

someone the information is fine it's like how you say it and then what you follow it up with like good she deserves it she's a cheating whore. Right, right. That's the gossip. Why would she be the cheating whore? Because she's your friend. Okay. Also, by the way, today's like a huge, significant day at the Toast. Do you know why?

No. No clue. Because of our guest interview today? Well, yes, which we'll get to in a minute, but no. I do believe this is the first time in Toast-herstory that I am wearing my hair up. Aside from that day last week. Did I wear my hair up last week? Yeah, and it was so stunning when you wore the 1989 sweatshirt.

Did I wear my hair up last week? Yeah, and it was so stunning when you wore the 1989 sweatshirt. I'm not okay. No, but I did notice when we logged on today that your hair is up. You're looking great. I've been trying to tell you for years that you should put your hair up, and I'm glad that you're on the hair up train. I don't know if I'm necessarily on the train.

Well, I'll have to watch today's episode. Twice in two weeks. I'll have to watch today's episode with a fine tooth comb. The only thing I'll say is that with the headphones, it changes. You know, now you kind of look like Princess Leia. You're so fucking mean. You're so fucking mean. Because it's the two balls.

I get it. Okay, now I'm self-conscious. So thank you so much for that. I just said you look great. I just said you look great, but you only hear the negative. You want to hear something funny, how you're wearing your hair down and you look like Princess Leia, bitch. That's because I'm saying the headphones like make us look like Princess Leia.

Well, maybe we should ditch the headphones, okay? I know. I was actually thinking about going back to pods. They're just so ugly. I know. These at least are like cool podcastings. But thank you for reminding that today's episode is going to be so long and so special because not only do we have a fabulous show with the Beverly Hills finale recap, the Salt Lake City recap, fabulous fast five,

two fabulous girls. We also have a fabulous interview. If you're listening as a podcast, you can just keep listening. It'll be at the end of the episode. And if you're watching on YouTube, we have another video on our channel right now. We did record the interview for video as well. We sat down with Jessica Knoll, who is definitely a role model of ours. She is the author of Luckiest Girl Alive, and she was an executive producer and screenwriter for the film that just debuted on Netflix,

starring Mila Kunis. And it was really cool to talk to an author. Like, I felt so scholastic. So scholastic to talk to an author about truly our favorite book, and that's now been turned into a movie. She's also telling us about her new book, which sounds so good. It was just a great conversation.

And I'm loving being such a core part of the literary world. Well, oh, two things. One, she did tell us afterwards, and I kind of wish we got it on the recording, that during the filming, Mila Kunis' understudy came up to her and was like, I am trying to find the book, but it's sold out on Amazon because they talked about your book on the toast. And they keep talking about it. And we literally sold out a book.

Not mine. Happy for her, but whatever. That was really cool. And the second thing, I have such breaking news. Like, breaking, breaking news. Do I know it yet? No. You're going to be shocked.

Share with the class. Do you know what Ben did yesterday on Yom Kippur? No. He read. He read. What did he read? He read Phil Knight, the founder of Nike's memoir, which is like, I helped him find, he was looking for like a good, like inspiring story.

And it was all over these like lists. It was on every single list. He's like 25% through. He loved it. And I was like, do you support women in literacy now? And he said, no, he supports men in literacy. Okay, at least he's consistent in the fact that he doesn't want to see literate women period no at least he's consistent in the fact that he doesn't

support women period not even literate women just women period period I'm glad that he found a book that he likes that's really a gorgeous update if we could convince Ben to become a reader like and push the boundaries further than I ever thought possible that would be we can do anything we could do anything speaking of reading new episode of the redheads drop today lessons in chemistry this episode was such a delight to record because for the most part the four of us are on the same page there's in every single episode no matter how good the book is there's always someone who it wasn't for them but all the girlies love this book and for different reasons too I feel like there were parts of each character that really resonated with everyone obviously for

snitch it was 630 the dog who's just like the best dog in the world um it was such a good book it was such a good episode so please check it it out. The Redheads Book Club. Oh my God. And then at the end of the episode, we all recap the other books that we read this month. I read five, Dana read five. I think Snitch read three and Becky read one. So there's 14 book recommendations in the episode

if you're looking for other things to read. Also, I'm kind of taking over the podcast charts, like not to make it a really big deal. And I'm just like guesting on all these podcasts. Yes. Yesterday, my episode of Straight Up with Stassi with Stassi dropped and it was so much fun to record. I recorded it like two weeks ago. Stassi and I have so much in common. Not only is she a toaster, so all toasters everywhere universally have so much in common, but like our interests are so aligned it felt like we were just getting coffee catching up and sharing tv and book recommendations it was

so much fun to record and I'm like an OG listener of Straight Up with Stassi when I used to work in corporate America it was the first and only podcast that I listened to at the time and I adored it so to be on it now if I could tell that girl, she'd be like, go off queen. She would be like, that's my girl. That's my girl. Totally.

So check it out, Straight Up With Stassi. And then also I was on Sophia With an F last week, which the episode is really making a lot of waves. I'm seeing a lot of clips like on TikTok and stuff.

I saw it too today. It came up on my FYP this morning. FYP? No way. Yeah. Well, because I follow Sophia but still okay you don't have to minimize it but what's so interesting about guesting on other people's podcasts are the things that they want to talk to you about you know like you see yourself one way but it's interesting to hear how someone else like what are the most interesting parts about

you that they want to ask you about or things that you've done it's also just like relaxing to not have to think that too but it's like when I was preparing for these interviews it's like I wonder what they want to talk to me about like what do they want to get my take on and they probably want to talk to you about being Roald's mom like for me that's the most interesting part about you right now we actually spoke about that on both podcasts towards the ends of sassy's podcast we had a very just honest conversation about postpartum things weight loss etc I think it's so important to just like have those conversations on podcasts wherever because the thought of having all those feelings of like not being happy with where you are and also feeling like you can't talk about it is so shitty.

And I've actually seen over the last few months some people being like so disappointing to see you talking about postpartum weight loss. And it's like, I couldn't disagree more. I think people not having, I think everybody's going through it privately. So like, why can't we talk about it and just make ourselves feel a little better knowing that other people are feeling the exact same way.

And it doesn't mean you need to go and lose all the baby weight, but you're allowed to like not love what you're looking like yeah no and also just the concept of somebody like telling you what to talk about on your podcast like go away go away I just couldn't disagree more and I know that if I wasn't a podcaster and I was going through this it would you would appreciate someone talking oh my god I would appreciate it so much just the honesty even. Even if we're not going to like solve anything today, like can we just complain?

That's kind of the ethos of the Morning Toast. We're not going to solve anything, but we are going to complain. And we're just going to talk about it. And now we've said it. And now we've said it. Thank you, Jackie. I couldn't agree more.

So go check out your girl on all these podcasts, having such great combos with such great women. And I'm actually a woman who supports other podcasting women. Woman. Woman. Yeah. No, I would agree with that. Yeah.

I think you are too. I support other podcasting women. Yeah. We've got a great show. We've got stories. We've got Beverly Hills season finale was on last night. It was infuriating. Real Housewives of Salt Lake City episode two was on and it was also infuriatingly boring. Um, so we're going to talk about that in the TV recap. It's Thursday. It is also our last episode of the week because tomorrow I'm headed to Pittsburgh for my show.

Tickets available at girlwithnojob.com slash tour. Good luck finding tickets. And Jackie is headed to Atlanta. She's going to be a little peachy girly her and Ben are doing a meet and greet for Spritz Society in Atlanta at Total Wine so check the Spritz Instagram for all the details because Jackie's going to be in Atlanta for a day and you don't want to miss it you don't want to miss it and I would feel bad that there's no episode tomorrow but today's episode is literally going to be two hours plus as stated there's an episode of the Redheads. There's straight up with Stassi with Jackie O and there's Sophia with an F with Jackie

with an O. So don't miss it. Yes. Also, I wanted to talk about the content that I consumed yesterday, and I would love to hear what got you through the day. I had planned on reading, but then I had such a bad migraine that I could not. I watched a few interesting things. Caught up and tell me lies.

Are you caught up? I am. New episode? I am. Really good episode, but really infuriating. No, like, Riggle, what's his name? Wrigley. Wrigley?

I need to kill him. Need to kill him. He's so motherfucking annoying. He's so annoying, but he's such, like, a lovable. No. Sweet guy. No, he's not. No, he wasn't, like, maybe maybe in the beginning but he's annoying as

fuck now um and disrespecting someone's home that's not gonna work for me yeah no I know but you know like at the end when he just like Evan and Wrigley should actually be friends they both have hearts it's Steven who's like ruining the group I I can't even tell you how much I hate this man I can't even tell you how much I hate this man. I can't even tell you how much I hate this man. He's so creepy. Like he's perfectly cast because he's fucking evil and I'm really feeling it in my core. But the silver lining of the episode was Brie and Evan like finally getting together and Brie finally having sex with someone who like gives a shred of a shit about her. And it was glorious. I was so happy for her. I was so happy for her too. I also watched the new docu-series on Netflix called Eat the Rich.

It's about the GameStop situation that happened. It's three parts, pretty fast moving. I liked it because I felt like at the time, and I feel like we said this all the time when we were reporting on it, like I didn't fully understand everything that was happening and how it happened. And now I've got it.

And it was just, it was really, really interesting and now I've got it and it was just it was really really interesting so I would I would recommend it last night I saw it when I was perusing for something to watch on Netflix and instead of that I chose the bling ring um and I only watched two episodes and I don't know if it's a story that like we need to keep retelling especially because it's pretty much a guide for how to rob a celebrity's house like that guy nick who really like started the whole ring with that girl rachel um he literally told you how to do it like how to find the addresses go on google maps search the terrain go up the back they have all these fire escape hikes in these gated communities so it's

like a little too in instructorial you know like here's exactly how to do it. And everyone's stories are conflicting with one another. You know, Nick is saying Alexis, you know, wanted to be there so bad. She was totally sober. She was ready to go. She's saying she was so fucked up on drugs. She had no idea where she was. She doesn't remember a thing.

So it's like we didn't get like a conclusive. I mean, I didn't finish it, but I don't think we get a conclusive storyline because they're both like lying on each other um but the way that the mom from Pretty Wild is the star of the documentary because like she's a full-blown liar and like every time she says something they cut to Alexis and Alexis's sister Gabby like contradicting the mom entirely oh wow it makes me feel weird that this story is so glamorized and there was the movie and everything because even as I was watching last night Real Housewives of Beverly Hills that's like in a few years if we're getting like a movie and a docu-series and all this stuff about the people who robbed Dorit's house no 100% I was actually glad they had Audrina Patrick on there because the whole time it was like glamorous, glamorous,

bags, shoes, cash, Rolex. And then Audrina was like, I was so fucking afraid for my life. I locked myself in my closet. I called the police. I never was able to go back into that house again. It still freaks me out. They had her interview be done in the house

that she was robbed in. Like they were renting it. And she was so freaked out. And that's what the head of the LAPD was like burglary is like not a victimless crime even if the people are rich it's like first of all Rachel Bilson they stole her mom's engagement ring that she had on her like first of all you lose such sentimental things it's not just about the money you're like invading someone's private space like robbing the rich is not a victimless crime just because you're rich doesn't mean you don't have feelings no and just like to disturb someone's peace like that and cause trauma

that they probably will struggle with for the rest of their lives like I don't find that really interesting and something that I want to be watching I agree they were like making light of it maybe it gets more serious I didn't really feel like I needed to watch the whole thing but I was oh and then they had Perez Hilton on it and that's when I was like I gotta go yeah these documentaries always have the fucking worst people yeah have you no scruples come on no even the one I just watched it was who was in it I'll tell you later okay why I'll just I'll tell you later. Okay. And then I also, oh, I started blonde. Ooh.

And I wanted to get into it because she's really good in it. She's amazing. She looks like her. She sounds like her and she's giving it her all. I didn't like the way the movie was set up. I didn't know like what year it was ever. We're flashing back. We're going forward.

It was so weird. And that's the part. It's like a psychological thriller right yeah I didn't like how the like the director that whoever that is is not my kind of director I wanted to know more about Marilyn I feel like I don't know anything about her but she's such she's like this huge huge iconic figure in everybody's life and the forever in history I saw a clip on TikTok from the movie of like the baby in her womb, like talking to her, begging her not to get an abortion.

That didn't happen. Well, I mean, I got to the part, I already watched the part where she gets an abortion and I didn't go further, but they're showing the baby in the womb, but it didn't talk. Oh, okay.

Like in the scene that I saw, the baby was like, please don't do what you did last time oh okay so then that's further along yeah and I was like that is a unique POV I was just I was shocked because I thought it was like this glamorous Marilyn movie and that's what I realized it's not like other movies yeah but she's amazing and I wanted to know more about Marilyn but I'm not gonna turn it back on. Yeah, I feel that. I wish it was just like a director

who just goes a story from like A to Z. That works for me. I love an A to Z moment. I think that directors are getting like really creative going beyond the A to Z structure. Like they're going, you know, B to F, Z to Y. Right, but you know what I could do? I could do L to A to Z going you know b to f z to y right but you know what l to q you know what i could do i could do l to a to z you know of course that's putting a little spin on a traditional structure

of a to z b to f l to y z to a is not working for me no this is literally that scene from Friends. Like, two, four. A four, six, two. A five, six, seven. Seven, seven, seven, seven, seven. And I caught up on Southern Charm. Great. But it was the season finale. I don't really have anything to say. I'll catch you at the reunion. Cool. Should we dive in? Yes, I think without further ado, we should dive into the Fast Five stories that you need to know before you realize how much you love the show, The Toast. Okay.

I'm going to try new stuff every day. No, for sure. On Tuesday's episode, people did like mine. Like, less is more when it comes to the change. I agree with that. And maybe that's where I'll land. Just give me, I just would like to improv

and try a few different things. I feel like this is a time of experimentation and with your blessing, I would like to do that. Obviously the one I just said is not it. I think we can rule that out for sure. But I'd like to try some stuff. Okay. Well, today's experimental episode

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millions of people use ZocDoc. We are two of them. It is our go-to whenever we need to find and book a quality doctor. Also for me, when I travel is probably when I get the most mysterious ailments. And being on tour and just like a fabulous girl who's always, you know, traveling. It's hard to get health care when you're in a different state. And ZocDoc is super helpful for that. Especially when you move. Like I need to, I've been on ZocDoc. I need a dentist.

Right. Oh, these teeth are hurting. Go to ZocDoc.com slash toast and download the zocdoc app for free then start your search for a top rated doctor today many are available within 24 hours zocdoc is spelled z-o-c-d-o-c.com slash toast zocdoc.com slash toast thank you mclardia you're welcome and you know who's one of the highest rated doctors on ZocDoc? Dr. Frachemin. Dr. Frachemin. The work that he does.

And actually, you know who beat him out this year for the highest rated doctor on ZocDoc? Who? Dr. Nazardan. Of course. I mean, that's always going to be, you know. The benchmark. Who Theo, and it's important to have people to look up to.

Role models, yeah. Have goals. And if only Theo one day could do what he's done 100% and be so funny along the way I fucking love Dr. Nazardan we should try and get him on the toast those are the interviews I'm interested in conducting 100% our first story is hurts my heart to say because I feel like I've been living in a state of denial about this one Tom Brady hires a divorce lawyer after Giselle retains her own. After wife Giselle Bunchin retained a divorce lawyer, Tom Brady enlisted one for himself, a source confirms to People.

On Tuesday, People reported that Giselle hired a divorce attorney amid their marriage troubles, and Brady, her husband of 13 years, was, quote, trying to figure out what to do. Page Six was the first to report the news. The couple, who share two children along with Brady's son, John Edward, with his ex, Bridget Moynihan, have been dealing with, quote, a lot of tension in the marriage, in part because of Brady's decision

to return to the NFL this season after a brief retirement. A source previously told people she was so happy when he announced his retirement and obviously now is frustrated that he's back in the game. Yeah so I feel like this is you know very much like a confirmation and that doesn't mean that two people can't reconcile amidst divorce proceedings but I'm just going to move forward with the mentality that these two

are no longer together and while that is extremely sad it's devastating it's heartbreaking. It is fun to imagine two single people out of Tom Brady and Giselle I mean the internet is ablaze being like Giselle and Pete Davidson which yeah which I totally could see like a little fling also girl boss town had a great prediction that like Kim and Tom Brady like will go on a date like maybe not OTP but like they might go on a date. That's gorgeous. Okay. I mean, stunning. So that works for Tom. He's settled. There's no one else on the list that I feel like he has to be with,

except that Kim, she's on the list. Yeah. And so for Giselle, it could be Jason Momoa. Oh my God, it's Jason Momoa. Even though I don't know if he should be on the list. He was spotted out again with Aza Gonzalez. But she's also still on the list. And I feel like when once we take them off,

that will be a big day, but we need more confirmation, not just like they were at the same place. Also, I feel like if we think it's not going to happen, then it will happen. So it's good if we keep pretending like it won't. No, and like I'm so shipping Jason Momoa and Aza Gonzalez, but knowing that Giselle's now on the market,

I'm kind of like hoping that the ship sinks. Yeah. I'm self-sabotaging my own ship. Giselle and Josh Groban. Nah. Giselle and Kenan. Oh, that's cute. Well, let's think of Giselle's type

because she dated Leo and then she dated Tom Brady. She loves like an all-American sweetheart, like boy next door. Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt. Pitt de la Brad. Pittsville, comma Brad.

Pitt, comma Brad. Brad Pitt. Even though he's been spotted with Emrata, they're not giving us enough. And I'm not here for it. Oh, I am, but like, he's still in the game to me. He's on the market still so I'm gonna keep theorizing I'm not here for it you're not why I'm just not okay not every ship is for every sailor right beautifully said truly stunning this is sad I feel like this divorce is like gonna be kind of lengthy and

messy because they've been married for so many years and they have so many assets like between him and her um and I know celebrities even like they always keep their shit clean but like this was a real marriage like a real family a real institution I agree I feel like they were so in love and so when that love goes south it really turns into like a visceral hate and that's when things get messy you know I feel like I'm nervous I'm really nervous this is giving like PTSD from you know children of divorce I feel like this is going to be huge yeah I hope it's not contentious I hope they can part amicably for the sake of everyone right and you think like when you have so much money like you know all right you take this house but right it's not like no matter how

much money you have like divorce there's so much like hatred and anger and jealousy like even if you have a lot of assets or not a lot of assets like it's the same hatred but I and I feel like it becomes less about the assets and more about control sticking it to the other person yeah totally yeah wishing them the best truly you know who's probably you know having a great day is Bridget Moynihan yeah because Tom bounced on her for Giselle and also like took the kid with them half the time. So I'm sure she's having, it's a great day to be Bridget Moynihan. And I don't think I would say that for every day

because for a while she was like the loser of this group. And she's always Tom Brady's ex. Like she has, she's on a hit show. She's on two, she's on two iconic shows. She's obviously Erin on Blue Bloods she's Natasha on Sex and the City she's had an illustrious career but like what oh you want to hear something so crazy always I don't know if I've ever told this story and like maybe I won't get invited back now but like I haven't been invited back since so I was invited to um like watch a taping

of Blue Bloods when they were filming their family scene, which is like really the only scenes that all the cast is in because. Is Thrice there today? No. I just heard a bark. Maybe it was Bruno. No, he's not here. No,

Theo's not here. Are you lying to me? Did anyone else hear that? No, I swear to God, it maybe it was a phantom bark. I hear phantom every, I hear phantom cries.

I hear phantom sirens. Okay, but so. Sorry to disturb you. I went to a family dinner scene, and I was sitting in those director's chairs with the headphones on, watching them do the takes. And in between takes, the cast was just chatting, and the cast is filled with normal fucking people. Even though Tom Selleck is there.

They're all just normal. He was talking about his horse farm. He has an avocado farm in Malibu. And someone was talking about how they're seeing a guy who lives in Boston. And Bridget Moynihan was like, oh, I used to see a guy who lives in Boston when he was on the Patriots. And it was like silent for a second. And then everyone laughed.

And so she was like being funny about it. So I actually ended up like having a lot of respect for her just from that interaction. But I do think it's a good day to be her yeah and as far as being invited back to the set I don't feel like that's a recurring like how many times do you want to go to the set oh I'd like to go every day um to work there and I'd like to be the star if we're just requesting things what would your role be if you were on the show that's so funny I was talking to my good friend um wait why can't I remember his name I was talking to my good friend Donnie Wahlberg um the last time I was on set there he was like you should come be an extra and I'm like please like set it up I can't do that you can

um and he was like well what would you like want to do and I was like that's a good question I think I would be like a DA from you know like a like like Staten Island or something like from a different district and I would come because we'd need to like work on this there's a serial killer who like started in Staten Island now that feds are bringing in the New York City borough and we're all working together and at first it's contentious because it's like you know this is my jurisdiction no this is your jurisdiction you've been working on this case for so long and it's deeply personal to me but sometimes when you're in a case like that and i'm a da so i know this like when you're so in it it almost blurs your vision because you become so attached to it you have like

horse blinders on yeah so donnie walberg would help me see out of that and ultimately we'd catch the killer together and become huge heroes on the cover of every newspaper. And that's just an idea. And if it does well, you know, maybe every couple of years, there's another Staten Island crossover, you know? Yeah. And I see that you haven't given this a lot of thought. No, none whatsoever. It does not keep me up at night.

She doesn't lay awake at night dreaming of the Staten Island killer. No, never, never. Me? No. Not sure how we got here, but i do think it's time to move on to the next story we got here from bridget moynihan because she is the bridge to terabithia she is the bridget that's the name of today's episode bridget to terabithia okay our next story fat joe says he won't change his name even though he's no longer fat.

Legendary rapper Fat Joe has lost a ton of weight over the past decade, but he says he's definitely not losing fat from his name. Quote, as a business, I spend so many millions and millions of dollars marketing Fat Joe that it wouldn't be smart to change my name now. He told Page Six at the five-year celebration of It's a Ten hair care. He said he won the name at the cost of some pretty serious teasing he said I grew up in the projects where there was no filter when the teacher would say write something on the chalkboard I was always big so the crack of my butt would show so the girls would be like Joey crack and that's how I kept my name so your name

is fat joe not joey crack well maybe it evolved over the years wait I'm gonna cry like literally nobody talks about like the trauma of being fat when you're young like kids are so mean and I love Fat Joe and I think it's important to mention I don't think also I love like turning your trauma

into your success Disgraced Queen right literally like being inspired by something bad that happened to you and having the last laugh and reputation. Uh, what's the phrase? Why can't I like running to the bank, laughing all the way to the bank. I agree. I love taking like your hardest moment and like making it into your like greatest achievement. I love that reputation, the snakes. Like she really did get the last laugh on that. So I don't think you should change it. Also, just from a business and marketing standpoint, Fat Joe is iconic. And I don't really feel, and I think if you've struggled

with your weight, you're going to agree with this sentiment. Being fat is not a physical state. It is a state of mind. Once you've been fat, like you are fat in your brain forever. Like that shit sticks with you. You are who you are because at one point in your life, you either were or currently are fat. It changes who you are as a person. So I feel like, you know, you can be fat without being physically big. Do you know what I mean?

A hundred percent. Okay. I do. Okay. So when I saw this, I was like, it never even occurred to me for him to change his name and I don't think that he should no I don't think that he should either though I do love a rebrand love love love I don't think it's necessary in this case no me neither in this case I rule no rebrand necessary no rebrand especially you spend millions and millions of dollars on marketing.

We hadn't spent millions on marketing. No, totally. And like, you know, he really came alive in the age of CDs and like records. So there are these ever, you know, I'm sure a lot of Fat Joe fans have like tons of his CDs and then they become irrelevant. Physical touch points. Well, no, I mean, and I was actually thinking about this with our merch because people are like well what about all the old merch and like now to me it's a vintage iconic one of a kind never to be seen again merch no it's true and we do have one more

merch collection that will feature some mourning elements yeah and it's the final one so and I just and it makes me I love our merch it makes me love it even more same to know like this was a moment in time and you were either there for it or you weren't. The girls that get it, get it. And the girls that don't, don't. They do not. Are you ready for our next story? Mm-hmm.

So Daily Mail has an exclusive that the survivors of the 1994 killing that's now the subject of Kim Kardashian's Spotify podcast are saying that no one contacted them and insists the man she's trying to free is guilty because they saw him do it. So a brother and sister who survived the 1994 triple murder that is now the subject of Kim Kardashian's true crime podcast on Spotify tell Daily Mail the star never bothered to contact them to check the facts of the case and insists the man she's trying to free is in fact guilty kevin keith yeah kevin keith was convicted of murdering his ex-girlfriend marichelle chapman her four-year-old daughter marshay and marichelle's aunt linda chapman at their home in ohio in 1994 he has been in prison

for 28 years but insists he's innocent kim believes him and has used his story as the launch pad for her spotify podcast the system which just launched this week. We were just talking about it. But two people who survived the shooting and witnessed it say he's guilty. They are Quanita and Quentin Reeves, Marichal's cousins who were six and four at the time. Now in their early 30s, the siblings tell DailyMail.com they were stunned when the podcast emerged on October 3rd without their contribution. They claim they were never invited on as guests and that they've never even heard from the crusading Kardashian. They said she did not contact us not one time. If Kim wants to get involved she should come and meet us face to face, Quentin said, who is now a father of two. The siblings who were both shot in the stomach by the murderer remain adamant that Keith is the

killer. They say they knew him because he was friends with their father and that they remember seeing him point the gun at their relatives. We it with our own eyes you don't forget something like that i don't care what kim kardashian says kevin did it quentin said i mean i think wherever you fall on this case whether you believe this man is innocent or guilty i think we can all agree like if there's witnesses to the crime and kim doesn't include them on the podcast, like, that's kind of like low key, like wrong. No, you know. Yeah. I mean, I think they ought also be germane to the story.

Right. People who were actually there. Sources close to the podcast claim that the siblings were contacted, but they maintain that they were not. Oh, so this is a game of he said, she said. Yeah. But if there are, I mean, I guess if they contacted them and they didn't respond, what can you do? But I just feel like. By the way, they don't have a, Kim doesn't have a responsibility to have them on, but she has a responsibility to reach out.

Yes, definitely. For the sake of the podcast. And then from there they can decide what they want to do. Yeah. Oh, this is touchy the sister said the first time she heard from the team was on monday october 3rd the day the podcast went live and that it was a heads up from the producer that doesn't count no no no that doesn't count no this is uh a very weird situation i do feel like Kim will have to address it. Yeah. And a lot of some of the

reasons why Kim believes that this man is innocent is because I guess after the shooting, the siblings initially identified someone named Bruce as the person who did it. But they said that they were obviously in a haze post-shooting and they oftentimes got those people, Keith and Bruce confused. They were their dad's friends. Well, that does muddy the waters quite a bit. Also, being four and six is just like a difficult spot for witness, you know, like four-year-olds and six-year-olds are just like kids. Yeah.

This is so like sticky. I don't even know what to say. Like, yikes. Y yikes i'm wishing everyone the best but even if kim believes he's innocent like on this podcast she should paint the whole picture which is like for sure people there are people who witnessed it who do still maintain that it was him no for the sake of the podcast getting the full picture i would be tuning into this podcast to learn everything there is to know about this case and obviously the two witnesses is a huge part of that so to leave it out ain't right yeah that's totally fair so um that came out this morning's podcast drama we'll see what happens

with it right but a little more legal news scammer Anna Delveyvey is no scammer anna delvey is granted bail if she can find a place to stay in america i thought she was getting deported she could be released from the ice detention center but only if the convicted fraudster can find a place to stay page six has learned anna you can stay with me but you just have to come on the toast like once a week on wednesday the u.s immigration judge judge granted her $10,000 bond, but she needs to provide a residential address where she will be under 24-hour confinement for the duration of her immigration proceedings.

I don't think that would work for you because you like to be alone. Yeah, no, 24 hours? Get the fuck out of my house. And to have this fraudster trying to restart her members-only club and art dealings in your house. You know, I think it's important that we talk about

that the building in which you do need to talk about this, the building in which. And his dream was obsessed with 281 park. It has been fully built out into a museum and I believe it's a members club. Someone just invited me there to go to dinner and I was like, wait, why do I know this address?

And I couldn't make the dinner. I was so upset, but I do plan on going um it's this very exclusive restaurant museum experience it's called like the Veronica or something and Anna wasn't wrong about that let's just say no they kind of like took her idea made it a reality it's literally an artist collective literally no she was not wrong. No and what are the odds that it's in the same building? I feel like they kind of stole her idea. They should have to pay her royalties. Well that's the thing about Anna is like she wasn't completely untalented.

Like she was just a scheming fraudster con woman but she had some good ideas. The talented Mrs. Ripley. Right. Also the judge ruled that she she cannot post on her social media either directly or by a third party. Well, maybe she'll stay with the girl. What was the girl's name? Rachel? No, no. From the hotel. Why would that girl have her stay with her?

Because in the end, it really seemed like that girl was obsessed with Anna. That's so crazy. know not Rachel even though Rachel when I was watching the bling ring thing the girl who started the robberies and who was like kind of like the brains behind it was this girl Rachel who wasn't a part of the documentary and she reminded me so much of Rachel from Anna Delvey just because like she was the girl and her name was Rachel. It's just such like a like a standard name. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So you would think like the mastermind behind this big bling ring would be like a Svetlana, you know, not a Rachel. You know, I went to I went to high school with Rachel. What's that saying? A rose by any other name is still a rose? Yeah, that's the phrase. I think what they're trying to say is it doesn't matter what your name is. Like, you're either a wench or you're not.

You're either a rose or a thorn. Or a wench. Or a wench. You're a rose spelled W-R. No, sorry. That's not a funnych. You're a rose spelled W-R. No, sorry. That's not a funny joke. Continue. Let's move on to our fifth and final story that will lead into our TV recap.

Okay, but I just wanted to let you know I texted you a story. If you are feeling passionate about this final one, Olivia texted it to us. I'm not feeling passionate about this final one because we could talk about it in the TV recap. Oh, it's here. Yeah, I thought this was such an interesting story. We didn't story we didn't have the article insider premium it's behind a paywall

but we got the pdf so olivia has a here it is and it's fascinating stuff it is patreon's deal with top tiktokers fell far short of expectations leak documents show here's what it means for the company's creator strategy coming off its layoffs oh i didn't um no they were doing layoffs but leak documents suggest patreon's one million dollar deals with tiktokers larry and little huddy loray short loray i pardon me and little huddy fell short of expectations company insiders also said patreon was in talks with mr beast but a deal was never reached insight insight into the deals comes amid company-wide layoffs that impacted the creator partnerships team. So this report came out, by the way,

and everyone was quaking over the fact that Mr. Beast almost did a deal with Patreon. Like, sure, that's interesting. The other part about Lil Hootie and LeRae, for me, is like so much more interesting. Yes, tell them what happened. Well, can you read it from the article? Because I don't know the figures exactly,

but I know that Patreon paid them one million dollars one million dollars each yeah i believe so to join the platform and for those one million dollar deals plural for those who don't know patreon is kind of like an only fans it's a platform where creators go and release content but it's all behind a paywall so you do like monthly monthly subscriptions. We have one, patreon.com slash the toast. We finally got our new link, patreon.com slash the toast. Can't stress that enough. So here are the details of their partnership. It's kind of patrons like OnlyFans,

but the creators that gravitate towards it are different, but it's a subscription for creators. Comedy creator LeRae launched in December his Patreon page where he hosts a platform exclusive talk show gravitate towards it are different but it's a subscription for creators content yeah comedy creator laray launched in december his patreon page where he hosts a platform exclusive talk show called the hot seat in january e-boy and musician chase lil huddy hudson onboarded both creators are massive draws on tiktok with 26.3 million and 32.2 million followers respectively the total value for their patreon deals was 1..325 million apiece, according to slides from a company presentation obtained by Insider. So Patreon paid these two really big TikTokers to come to the platform and do exclusive content over there and hopefully grow overall Patreon audience.

According to the presentation, the company expected Larray would drive $100,000 in subscriptions in his first month on the platform but he brought in just $2,217 in total membership volume which refers to total payments from fans. $2,000. Lil Huddy brought in $2,670 far less than the $25,000 Patreon expected for his first month. And I just find this so interesting. One, because just like the landscape of social media, it's so crazy how you can have 30 million followers and not get more than a thousand people to watch your talk show. And it's also just this like really interesting conversation about like followers versus fans

and followers versus like a community. And if you would have asked me how much money I thought Larray and Lil Hootie would bring on Patreon like I could have told you this by the way like not every not every creator no matter how many followers you have is built for this type of model and it's not even about how many followers you have it's about what type of followers you have like Patreon would have been better off spending a million dollars on like five much smaller creators who have like super engaged audiences and more niche like moms like real communities as opposed to just like people with tons of followers and i feel like this was a huge waste of money clearly and obviously i don't think they spent the 2.6 million dollars to get back the $2.6 million.

They obviously wanted to make a dent in the $2.6, but it's marketing money. And every dollar you spend on marketing, you're not going to get back. But I don't think they thought it was going to be $2.6 million, $2,600 in returns. Right. But at the end of the day, the marketing money that you spend eventually brings in more money. Otherwise, you're operating at a loss so I don't think they expected it to be tomorrow but to build up to getting those numbers back and I do think it's crazy and it really shows you like they're you could have a big audience um

but are they an engaged audience or are they a passive audience no and also like patreon is really it is podcast specific like it's very comedy focused it's a lot of true crime I imagine that this was them trying to expand into a new category of almost like subscription model for youtube pretty much you know yeah yeah yeah this was just such a miss I'm like I was shocked by these numbers I saw tiktok going around and this girl was like they literally paid these kids over a million dollars and they brought in two grand that's always so fascinating like remember a while ago that influencer who had like millions of followers she like put out a t-shirt and no one bought it no she was like she did a meet and greet at vidcon we might be talking about two

different people oh this girl had tons of followers enough to get invited to vidcon to host a meet and greet and not one person showed up that's a different person this was a person who like put out a t-shirt um like merch and no one bought her t-shirt and she was like so upset like why don't you guys buy my merch and she like i think she sold like 20 shirts i mean well that attitude is beyond entitled like why don't you guys buy my shirt who the fuck are you right but like she has millions of followers but they're not people who want to actually buy stuff from her no like the intersection of followers versus like having transaction ability and like an audience who actually wants to listen to your

podcast buy your books see you on tour do all these things is they're not mutually exclusive like just because you have followers doesn't mean any of them give a shred of a shit about what you have to offer yeah and that's why when like people just get in this game and like rack up followers for the sake of having followers thinking it's going to create all these other opportunities for them when it doesn't it's like yikes yeah but I do think that brands clearly are a little bit behind on realizing that they see followers and they're like I want that no but brands are also I actually thought about this a lot recently because somebody was telling me about an influencer that they worked with who um had like totally fraudulent followers um and I think it's really interesting like don't you feel like

that should be like a felony because you're accepting let's say all three million of my followers were fake they're not but let's say for argument's sake that they were and I accepted a fee from McDonald's based on the belief that I had 3 million followers that they wanted to engage with. Isn't that nefarious? Yeah, that is. And I think- I don't think that's a felony. I've heard so far as people going to doctor their analytics, because when you do a campaign with a brand,

you then have to send them analytics. Here's how many millions of people were reached and they put together a deck. The agency puts it together for the brand. So I've heard of people even going so far as doctoring their own analytics like on photoshop to substantiate the claim that they had real followers to begin with I don't know that that's a felony but McDonald's should be able to sue you once they discover that and I think that's kind of similar to companies who fudge their numbers

and pretend to be more successful that they are I don't think that the law yet has caught up with the internet but that is really interesting especially fudging analytics but what's crazy is like if you like tell a lie in the mail it's wire fraud right and like who the fuck is using mail or email or email i think the government's gotta grow up gotta you could doctor your analytics like that no that's such a good call. Not the wire fraud. Mail fraud. Mail fraud. And email lie is wire fraud.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so funny. Yeah. So those are the Fast Five stories. I feel as though you needed to know them before we get into our TV recap. 100%. You needed to know them. We've got Beverly Hills season finale recap coming at you.

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point they really told what the charity was. Right. That's so true. What is Princess Monica charity? Let's look it up. She was like, it's going to help our artists and all of our charitable endeavors. Like it sounded like Anna Delvey. Yeah, that's sounding like fraudulent philanthropy. let's look it up she was like it's going to help our artists and all of our charitable endeavors like it sounded like anna delvey yeah that's sounding like fraudulent philanthropy it feels sounding like a documentary we're going to read about in a few years it supports emerging performers in theater dance and film in the form of awards grants scholarships and fellowships that's nice that is nice to help students it was a really classy affair between the diamonds and the no and it it was wonderful to see the women at an event that other people were at

too because like usually they would get all dressed up black tie diamonds etc just to like sit around and talk to each other but the fact that there was other people there were things happening that's what we used to get from Real Housewives like there were events and then the women showed up to them now they just manufacture stuff and everyone gets so dressed up to the nines and it's just like so silly and just like a waste of glam but before that party I thought that Garcelle's Bubbles and Birkin's party looked so much fun everyone was like actually having a good time yeah and I needed Birkin like I was literally so jealous that little like setup the guy had. It was what a fabulous way to shop.

Totally. Was there one that caught your eye in particular? I mean, honestly, the green one that Sutton and Kyle were fighting over like was sickening. And did any of them even buy a bag except for Garcelle? Sutton bought that taupe clutch, which was kind of ugly. And I don't know if anyone else bought anything. Yeah, no, but it was a fun afternoon and the women were in good spirits it was stunning I just love Garcelle and I also love Cherie like

we need to know Cherie a little bit more they've really given her nothing and she's still like super funny and interesting in the small things that she gets like I would like to know more about Cherie yeah maybe next season she'll come on. Cause I think a lot of people probably like her. What I love about Garcelle is I feel like when we're watching the show, it's so easy to see what's right and what's wrong and like what's happening. Cause we have like this zoomed out view and I'm so like, I admire so much that in every moment, in every situation, like Garcelle can see exactly what's happening. And it's as if like she has that perch in that perspective, but she doesn't. Cause sometimes in every moment in every situation like Garcelle can see exactly what's happening and it's as if like she has that perch in that perspective but she doesn't because sometimes in the moment you don't it's hard to tell what's right what's right like you don't see the other

conversations that are happening you don't know what's going on so it's hard to be right when you don't have all the information totally she nails it every single time no No, you're so right. She's so wise and mature. And I just fucking love this woman. And honestly, I don't know what we would do if she wasn't on this show. Because that group that ran this show for the last couple of years, Erica, Rinna, Dorit, Kyle, it's not cutting it for me anymore. And I thought it was really interesting that Kyle chose to confide in Garcelle at that event because I think she sees Garcelle as the only one who's seeing this clearly. Like Dorit is so desperate to stay in the middle. She's like not going to take any stand. Erica and Lisa are like coming for Kyle and her sister. And so she sought refuge in the only rational

person in this group. And I thought that was so wise of her. And I know a lot of people are like, well, why is it on Lisa and Erica to stop the fight with Kathy? Like it should be on Kathy to stop the fight with Kathy. And I just don't agree with that. Like I don't. No, especially because Lisa and especially Lisa is saying like, I'm bringing this up because I'm defending you and I'm protecting

you and so Kyle is saying if you want to defend me and want to protect me what I need you to do is for is move on she apologized like and you need to accept that and move on but Lisa can't do that because at the end of the day that's she's not trying to protect and defend Kyle she's trying to embarrass kathy because that she's jealous good for everyone no that she knows this thing where lisa keeps saying that kyle i mean excuse me that kathy needs help because of her behavior i'm sure kathy was acting wild uh have you seen the show i mean literally the day before erica was being insane uh hello amsterdam l Lisa Rinna. Everyone has had this psychotic moment. What about Lisa across the table at Dorit's homeless, not toothless gala, having like a complete breakdown

and then taking it all back and being like, I'm sorry, I'm in a really bad place. Like, what about all that? That's literally what Kathy then said. Kathy had a breakdown and then came to Kyle's house and said, I'm sorry, and I'm in a bad place. But Kathy needs help and you don't. No, Lisa Rinna is so awful.

And you know what? It felt like the episode was ending abruptly when Lisa and Erica were leaving. And I was actually glad Sutton brought them back in because it's like, we're all talking about this and we're talking about you. So just get in here and defend yourselves. Like a hundred percent, do I think Lisa and Erica had something to do with it leaking

a hundred percent I oh I'm sorry Kyle with the read to filth when she was like I'm pretty sure you know Hilton is a better last name right now than Girardi that was so good yeah the only thing that I thought was a good point was that if Erica and Nikki share a publicist why would Erica's publicist leak this but I'm sure there's other ways and other people who knows that's a great call that was by that was made by Erica and I do have to say I feel like I've been hard on Kyle these last couple episodes like she did do the right thing last night like she is moving away from the people who are making it hard for her sister like she did do the right thing last night like she is moving away from the people who are making it hard for her sister like she is being in this moment a good sister yeah but I

think there's tension between Kathy and Kyle yeah still did you see the pictures that came out from the reunion it was each woman on their own they never got a group shot it was apparently like so horrible now I could see how the reading goes so south because I think that for Kyle Rinna and Erica I don't know how they can come back from this quickly I think eventually it'll all be fine but I think the wounds are still fresh and that throws a huge wrench into the group dynamic which is like the five and the five who have been like so exclusive and not inclusive of like the new girls Garcelle Sutton era Crystal it's it's awkward like as fuck yeah I just love these new girls gonna say was Kris Jenner commented on Kathy's picture from the reunion a bunch of hearts which is just so funny because she's beefing with Lisa Rinna because Lisa was like you know taking up for 818 and Kris has spoken

and taking Kathy's side no it's like Lisa Rinna is so desperate. Her showing up in that Balenciaga outfit that Kim literally wore exactly like it's really loser-y. But Kathy's the one who's jealous of the Kardashians. Right, right, right, right. Honestly, I don't even think Lisa Rinna's jealous of the Kardashians. If anything, she's jealous of the Foster Hadids because she tried desperately to do what Yolanda did with her daughters and it didn't work out in the same way.

Even though Miss Amelia Gray is having like a major fashion moment. She's kind of like an it girl of fashion right now. Yeah, she is. And it happened like so randomly. Good for her. Yeah. Um, and then Real Housewives of Salt Lake City episode randomly. Good for her. Yeah. And then Real Housewives of Salt Lake City episode two. It was horrible.

Like literally horrible. I hate this show. I only watched half because my TV was crapping out and I thought it was a cue to go to sleep. There was a shaman. Everyone cried. Oh God. One person stormed out. And the next week no one's even going to care about the person they're fighting with now

because they'll be fighting with someone else. It was so bad. That is bad. I didn't get to when they went on the trip. I saw Jen crying with her mom. And it's like. No, I can't help but think about her mom literally liquidating her entire life savings and teacher's pension, a million dollars, to give to her daughter who stole money from the elderly.

For her legal fund. Only for Jen to then plead guilty so all of that legal work was for what I don't know but I did feel I can't believe I felt for Jen a little bit in that moment because of her kids and and that's why I'm like frustrated that I'm watching this because it's like you know why am I feeling bad why am I feeling bad for someone who took advantage of such vulnerable people whose lives are ruined seeing one side of it like we're not seeing but you know who I was like really actually getting annoyed with this episode was Miss Heather Gay um because like I get that she's like the kind of class clown she's like always making the joke yada yada great term but

like they had this shaman come and I think shamans, I'm not even like into that sort of stuff, but everyone was like taking it seriously and like having a moment. And like, she just like was making fun of it the whole time. And it's like, everyone is getting into it. Like just get into it and shut up. Like you always have to be making fun of everything.

Read the room, read the room, like stop. Okay. That's cool that they were into it. Yeah. Um, but I don't really have many other thoughts on Salt Lake city.

It wasn't a particularly good episode. Uh, no, no, it was was not then Meredith was talking to Whitney like Meredith is talking so much trash about Lisa that she's doing the exact same thing that Lisa did to her which is undermining like her position where she got to be so angry can I say one thing that when they got to this house in Arizona which was so ugly and disgusting I was shocked someone walked in it was like is this one of Mary Cosby's rentals like it was like old big couches like it was so weird um I know Meredith is like not acting right but like she comes late to the shaman thing and she's like I'm sorry I'm late I was having like such bad anxiety honestly about being here with you guys because the last time we were all on a trip like my father had just died and not only that but like literally his death was weaponized against me and now we're back here almost a year later it's almost the anniversary and I'm honestly

just like I'm shook yeah so I can excuse her behavior a little bit because I actually forgot how fucking evil everyone was to her last year yeah given what she was going through even beyond that so you know what I'm gonna allow it okay I like that perspective and it's hard to remember what happened last season because like every episode is different and every alliance is different I actually can't keep up but I appreciate that um but the episode is not over yet if you're listening as a podcast please enjoy our episode our interview with Jessica Knoll author author, screenwriter, executive producer. She's amazing and she was so funny.

And if you want to watch it on YouTube, just head over to our YouTube channel and the video is up already. So thank you so much for listening to The Toast, the millennium show, where we deliver the past five stories that you need to know every Monday through Friday on YouTube. So if you're watching this on YouTube,

please feel free to subscribe and give this video a thumbs up. We're also available as podcasts and our podcasts can be found so that Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, Public Video, iHeartRadio, CastBox, all the places where we listen to podcasts. Find us on Morning Toast, leave a five-star review that's Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, Public Video, IR Radio, CastBox, all the places. Wherever you listen to podcasts, find us in the morning, tell us, leave a five-star review

about how beautiful, stunning, and smart we are. Hope you guys have an incredible Thursday. This is our final episode of the week. So we will see you back in studio on Tuesday because Monday is Columbus Day, better known as Indigenous People's Day, and there's no toast. So we'll see you there.

Wait, that's this Monday? Yeah. Oh, cool. See you Tuesday, guys. Good thing there's so many podcast episodes for you to enjoy that I am on. Well, welcome back to the Morning Toast. I am so excited about today's guest. And I'm going to intro. We are sitting down with the iconic author of Luckiest Girl Alive. Jessica Knoll is here. You're also like a movie producer now. I don't even know how to how to properly introduce you. I know. I wear several hats. I'm an executive

producer. I'm a screenwriter, novelist. Sometimes I write essays for a little known place, the New York Times, you know. Find me anywhere. Honestly, I wanted to introduce you before we got in. I have to tell you that so up until the end of 2020 I had not read a full book perhaps ever in my life. Like I just did not like reading and I did really judge other people who read for fun. I'm like oh my god get a life. And then we went on vacation. Or like are you are you lying? Like like I don't know if I believe you you know. No no no no. Oh no. Not lying like like i don't know if i believe you you know no no no no no not lying like and i don't think she ever did the school reading i really can't maybe back in the day you read like girl i'm saying i'm saying like when people say i read for fun like

were you kind of like yeah you're lying i don't believe you yeah i'm sure you do read for fun have you ever had alcohol like i was just i was a hater I was a big time hater and December of 2020 we went on vacation Jackie brought a hard copy of Luckiest Girl Alive and she finished it and she was like she had been trying to get me to read and she was like Claudia just read this one book and just read and just trust me and I was like okay you know what what else am I doing we were in the mountains I read the entire book and since then I've read over a hundred books like I'm obsessed with reading now it all started with luckiest girl alive and I'm not even lying no lie oh my god that's actually incredible my book was like a gateway drug to reading yes like that it was a gateway drug ever

told that no one's ever told me that before. That makes me really, really happy. I figured that you should know, like, the work you do is so important. Oh, thank you. So you are the author, of course, of Luckiest Girl Alive, which just got made into a movie on Netflix, which we're going to talk about because that's so major. But I feel like before that, you were having this unprecedented success with your book.

I mean, we're obsessed with it. Can you talk a little bit about like what the process was like from just, you know, a girl with a book to then like a best-selling on every list? What was that like? Yeah, that part of it, once the book was out in the world, like that part of it happened like in a pretty contained space, like about a year. Writing the book, I, for years, like I'd been a magazine editor.

So I was writing this book while I was working at Cosmopolitan. So I would wake up in the morning before work, get like an hour to an hour and a half of writing done. And then I would go into the office and I wrote my book in like under a year, uh, doing it that way. And, um, my, and, you know, I had been fortunate enough that in my very first job out of college, I had briefly and disastrously worked as an assistant to an agent at the Paradigm Agency. But what ended up happening is I met another assistant there who was like, this is actually what I want to do, be a literary agent. So I left to work in magazines and to write and she stayed on. And at the time she was promoted to like a junior agent, like we were like probably like 27. She emailed me and was like, you're

writing so much for Cosmo. Like, I know you have a emailed me and was like you're writing so much for Cosmo like I know you have a book in you like you should write a book and then like I'll sell it and like you know she needed clients like you know she had like just been kind of anointed as a junior agent and um she also happened to be from the same area I'm from outside of Philadelphia we didn't know each other in high school but like we were only a year apart in age. Like it just, she got the kind of milieu of that area, which is like super specific. So it was also really great to like work with her

for that reason. And then, yeah, she was able to sell it. You know, I had that connection. I think working in magazines at the time, it was like, I mean, still, I think like publishers love like magazine editors, cause you tend to just be like, you know, know a lot of people who could potentially support the book and help sell the book um so I started writing the book in 2013 it published in 2015 and yeah all the success

came you know pretty quickly that year of 2015 it was the best-selling debut uh that year yeah no and that's like not normal like your first book gets made into a netflix movie like that's not normal no it's not normal and like it almost didn't happen a lot of time like many times i mean that was 2015 this book came out and we're sitting here in the fall of 2022 and yes you know, with the movie on the horizon. So, yeah, it took, I've been with this story for almost 10 years, which is crazy. Wow. Wow.

I feel like so many of the books that we love that we hear are going to be turned into movies or shows actually don't wind up making it all the way. So the fact that the movie is here now, Claudia and I got to watch a sneak, we got a preview of it early. I saw your Instagram. is here now Claudia and I got to watch a sneak we got a preview of it early we got screeners which was one of the highlights of our year for sure we really don't get screeners for anything and if it was going to be anything our favorite book will do that's amazing so what was the process of making this into a movie and I have to imagine anytime I read a book I cast the movie in my head

it's like a fun way to use my brain and I have to imagine when you're a book I cast the movie in my head it's like a fun way to use my brain and I have to imagine when you're writing it and even when it was going into movie production that you had someone in your head was it always Mila Kunis and how did she come to the role eventually? So at the time that I was writing the book I really truly could not see past like I just want this to be like published as a book and I want it to like do really well um once the conversation started happening around optioning it for a film like that's when I was like oh you know starting to think like that the thing that's so that I just learned over the last seven years and not just working on this adaptation like I you know my second book I'm working on

adapting into a tv show like I've written original screenplays I've adapted other people's books into screenplays now and so it's it's like I'm tanked like I'm tainted by like the studio like suits you know because like there's this idea of like this is a bankable star you know people want to watch this person like the studio will sign off on this is a bankable star. You know, people want to watch this person. Like the studio will sign off on this person. Then you have to also, you know, have producer approval, director approval. Like there's so, it's so rare that like in who you picture in your head and what you want is ever going to work out for whatever reason that like I feel like I don't even, I don't even dream anymore. Right. Because I'm just so like, I just have so I just in my head, I'm like so

practical about it now. And so the Mila of it was really interesting because we had been set up at Lion at the Lionsgate studio for years and they were really interested in it initially, and then they just couldn't get it off the ground, and they would only make it with, like, two actresses. And we were like, we're never going to get them because they're, like, crazy busy and booked up for years. And they're like, well, no one's going to, like, want to come to a theater to, like, see, like, you know,

all this, you know, sensitive material, which was always so weird to me because I'm like, well, no one's going to like want to come to a theater to like see like, you know, all this, you know, sensitive material, which is always so weird to me because I'm like, but there's like humor and irreverence in this. And like, it's also just like a really compelling, intriguing story. So like they were just hyper focused on the more traumatic elements of the book. so when we got to Netflix it was 2019 and Scott Stuber who's the head of the film department there was like the first person we want you to go out to is Mila Kunis and my reaction was actually I was annoyed because the whole point of going to Netflix was that we would have flexibility in terms of the star we could go out to. And we had just, I had just been on this hamster wheel for years of going out to big name stars and having, having them say no, like, they're like, this is just too, like, it's just too tricky. I'm just too scared to kind of touch it. And I was like, we're just wasting time. Like, I thought if we

came to Netflix, like we would just be able to like,, we would have a longer list of names we could go out to. They wouldn't have to be these big megawatt stars. And I was like, she's just going to take forever to read. And then she's just going to say no. And then we're going to lose momentum. And this is exactly what happened at Lionsgate. And so I was really, really annoyed. And then she read it and was like, I'm into this, guys.

Let's talk. And so I had to eat my words because it like ended up being the best thing ever no and she was amazing we've seen the movie she was incredible I have to imagine um like any book to an author is deeply personal but I read in your acknowledgments that you know there were parts of Tithani's story that were true to you. So I imagine like handing that over to a Lionsgate or Netflix can be quite uncomfortable, honestly, because it's your story being told by someone else through someone else's eyes. So you said that you were an executive producer. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. So you were able to control it a little bit more?

Yeah. I mean, I think it was the fact that I was also the writer. It's, I think that executive producer is almost a little bit of a vanity title for some people, some people it's not some people you're actually doing the executive producer work. Um, and sometimes if you're the author of the IP of the original material, but you're not involved in the adaptation, they'll give you producer, maybe not material, but you're not involved in the adaptation. They'll give you producer, maybe not executive, but like,

or maybe they do. I don't, I don't, I shouldn't actually speak on this. Like I know, but normally you've got some sort of producerial credit. Um, and,

and yes, like consulting, like they'll show you drafts, but like if you don't like something, they're not going to like change it. Being like, that was partly why I was like, I have to be the one to adapt this myself even though i've never written a screenplay before because i the idea of not being involved every step of the way and like knowing what was going on like it just would have made me bananas crazy like i'm crazy such a control freak um so it was like that as much of at the time that that the

story was being handed over I hadn't really been vocal about the fact that there was a lot of me and my own experience in this character so I think it was also me trying to be super protective of like my my own self and my own story um so I was like no I need to be like involved in everything yeah yeah so when you adapt a um a book into a movie overall like when was the first day on set the first day on set was June something of 2021 so we had post-production yeah so we had post-production it was about uh four months overall which includes post or sorry no i'm saying post includes pre-production so that pre-production is about like a month so you're not filming for that whole time um and you get weekends off or like whatever our weekends happen to be saturday

and sunday but sometimes your weekends happen to be Saturday and Sunday but sometimes your weekends are like Monday and Tuesday it just depends what your film schedule is um so yeah it was like a Monday sometime in June I'm sure I can get the exact date um and we started with all the flashbacks so Mila actually wasn't even in on set at that point it was just all the I call them kids but they're between they're all over 18 um right all the kids in the flat they're kids to me yeah and the actress who played young Mila was incredible she's oh my god amazing right she's incredible and as like a human being she's just like an incredible person too so how do you decide because like the book was it was a

pretty long book how do you decide what makes the cut for a film and what doesn't like how do you decide what is integral to the storyline? Yeah it's interesting because it's like there are things that we've taken out put back in that we've added that aren't in the book like it was con it was like a constantly evolving kind of document. Like I probably wrote close to 60 drafts of that script over the years. And it's, you know, you always hear people say that like film is much more collaborative than a book. And it truly is. And you, with a book, like it's really just kind of you and your editor. And it's very hands off in a lot of ways.

In a movie, there's so much more money at stake. And so you have so many more people who have to weigh in and give their opinion from all the producers to your director to your executives at whatever your studio is. So a lot of times there would even be like conflict or, you know, some people feeling like I want this or I want to lose this. Um, so I just did my best to like, I, you know, I fought for what I really wanted. I, I seeded some battles, um, because I'm like, maybe I wouldn't have made that choice as like a storyteller, but this person who knows this medium and has been doing this for years and years and years is telling me this is the right decision and giving me a really good argument as to why. So I'm going to, and I trust everyone I'm working with.

So I'm going to trust them that this is the right decision. And there was an example in particular where I fought really hard for something. And in the end, our director was like, I'm going to take this out. And I want you to see a cut of the film without these two scenes in it and he showed it to me and I was like damn it yeah right you know yeah I love the movie because I think it's so similar to the book I feel like that really doesn't happen so often there are always so many changes or storylines that have to be left out and I feel like aside from like a few things it's really how I envision the book even the people Mila Kunis like I could she's Ani through Luke Luke was perfectly cast yeah Luke was perfectly cast and is so good he's

so good also the settings were so wonderful and I feel like the production value even the fact that it was based in New York I feel like so much stuff that's based in New York isn't actually filmed here but these are city streets city scenes and it really they filmed outside our building remember yeah they did when we first saw those pictures of Mila and Luke walking down the street yeah like that was the most exciting thing. That big building? That's so crazy. Yeah, we were dying. We were so excited. And it really felt like the book come to life. So I imagine you must be, you must love the movie, yeah?

Right. Yes, I love it. I mean, I've seen it, oh my God, I've seen it so many times. And I've seen it through so many iterations you know like the first cut was really really rough and I you know this is my first rodeo with you know being involved in like I've been in the develop process for a lot of things but I've never gotten to production I've never gotten to post I had no idea post was going to be as much work as it was which we were based out of New York for that I was back and forth I live in LA now but I was like back and forth to New York a lot over the winter um and I couldn't believe how much

writing and rewriting I was doing because they're recording stuff in ADR sessions and kind of like slipping it in like all that movie magic um but yes it was absolutely the it was beautifully lit which is like and all the actors who were on set were like this is so I have to give credit to our uh DP Colin Watkinson for that because like he did all of that lighting and all of those camera angles and like worked with our director very closely to like pull that off and the color palette and all of that and like some of the extras would even come off set and be like this is the most like beautifully lit production I've ever been on and I was like wow oh my god that's amazing you know so like I learned all these things that are like important to people in front of the camera that like as someone behind

the camera like I never would have even thought of on my own so yeah it was a very like educational experience for me too yeah it was stunning I particularly love the Nantucket scenes, that home, that country home. I just, I need one of those. Yes, I need one of those too. Can I ask you a question like from the book? Because am I toxic? Because I like would have taken a bullet

for Ani and Mr. Larson. Like they needed to get together. And I think there's like a group of us who like ship them so hard. And like what about an alternate ending where they end up together? They end up together. Well it's so funny because like agree. Like hard agree. Okay. Okay.

And like that's why I wrote that. Yeah. I, I, it's so funny because when I was writing the book, I got to the point where, like, they were back on the main line for filming of the documentary. And they had done everything and they were, like, you know, getting really close because they're, like, having these really intimate conversations. And then I was like, okay, now they're going to have sex. And so I, like, would sit down and I would try and write them having sex. And I couldn't. Like, everything I wrote felt so wooden. And so I like would sit down and I would try and write them having sex. And I couldn't.

Like everything I wrote felt so wooden. And I finally turned to my. Literally. Oh my God. I walked right into that one. No one to blame but myself. I consulted my agent, Alyssa, and I was like, I can't write the scene. And she was like, what if they don't actually sleep together?

Like, what if it's just a kiss? And then when I went in to write the chapter with that in mind, it just, like, flowed so easily. And so there was something about it where, like, and Alyssa was always saying, she was like, look, for some people, she's going to be such a tough pill to swallow, the character herself, that you don't want to, like, add to that. You don't want to add another barrier. For some people. Some people are like, look, I get that she's a bitch. I get it.

I'm on board. You know? And, like, that's how I am. Like, she just doesn't bug me. But you want a lot of people to read it so it's like how many readers are you gonna potentially lose because you're like okay I don't like all these other things she's said and done and now she's you know screwing a married man um right so I think it was better all around in the end that they don't sleep together and it's always a little hotter when there's like that tension right it's like yes and he was you know at one point her teacher so like even though he was a really young hot cool teacher i guess it

probably was for the best but i just wanted you to know like there is a community of us who ship hard i get it and it's like it's that you know, I was actually talking to one of our producers on the movie and like, we were just saying like, you know, we need to like work on like an erotic thriller together. Like I need to write something. I'll read it. Because it's like, yeah, it's just like, right. Like it's just when things are wrong, they feel so right. You know, like, it's like, what is, what is that?

Like it's anything, give me anything toxic like i'm just like shows me how far i have to go in therapy because i'm like i'm i'm into it 100 i will be first in line to read that so movie is out people are loving it you're kind of like the toast of the literary world the toast um and you just came right before this from doing the kelly clarkson show and we are yeah head over heels obsessed with Kelly Clarkson like please tell us about her she so everyone told me they were like Kelly is legitimately like the coolest most down-to-earth person like you'll ever meet um and I tried the people who were telling me this like I trusted

them because there are also people who have like warned me in advance of like this person may not be exactly what you're expecting um so I've had those encounters too so when these people are telling me she's actually really amazing I was like I know she will be she is she's not intimidating at all she's so easy to talk to um she's just like a girl you want to like go get like margaritas with like she's really really cool a dream Margaritas with Kelly Ivy can you imagine a better date? No, so yeah I had and they sent us home with these amazing gift bags that had this but has a bottle of red and

Then these specialty chips that they're like the only chip that is made to be had with wine I never heard of this before and there's one Kelly one a one is manchego flavored and one is smoked Gouda and I'm like this is this is the best gift bag anyone has ever sent me home with Kelly is so classy so tell us we're gonna be like first people in line for your next book can you give like the peeps a little update on that because i follow you on instagram it's been a journey it's been a journey it's been a journey oh my god so my next book is we don't have an exact publication date but it's going to be summer 2023 and um it is a it's fiction but it is based on a real life crime i feel like i should

just say it like this will be like the first time like talking about it publicly but i think i should just say it like when else am i gonna get the opportunity um so uh ted bundy who i'm sure you guys know who ted buddy is okay um so ted bunny is a notorious serial killer who operated in the 1970s and for i i always knew who he was like you know by name i knew he was like the seattle killer and he was like handsome and smart and like charismatic and all these things and a couple years ago there was a new documentary that was out about him and I just noticed this conversation happening on Twitter um that was like why are we getting like another documentary about him like don't we already know everything there is to know about him like what about like the you know he he, you know, murdered over 35 million, I mean, in some estimates,

like, it could be as many as 100 women. And they were like, we don't know anything about these women. So I thought that was interesting. And I started just, like, doing a little research. I was like, I wonder if there's anything there. And I just found a whole new angle of this story that I was like, I've not seen this covered anywhere like I did not know that his his final spree happened in Florida where he entered the sorority house at Florida State University and attacked four girls in 15 minutes left two of

them dead and that the surviving women and the women who lived in the sorority had to go on to be deposed by him because he was acting pro se as his own attorney this was like legal they had to be like they had to like face him down and these are women like in their early 60s like this didn't happen like that that long ago you know and the way they were treated and kind of mistreated and there was so much sexism and so much misinformation about how brilliant he was, he was not, I was amazed. He was like a law school dropout. Like he had terrible L-STAT scores.

Like all this stuff, the way he was like memorialized and remembered, it's so not true. And these women were actually really the exceptional ones. So it's a kind of a fictional retelling from the perspective of one of the sorority girls who's not a real person, but like just inspired in general by like some of these women I read about. And then also from a woman who ultimately becomes his victim back in Seattle. And there's kind of like a character that goes between these two storylines and is kind of helping bring him to justice.

And there's also a lot of mystery around some of the crimes still in Seattle, like answers that, you know, so I kind of imagine what some of these answers are that people never get. So there's still like, you know, you're kind of pulling at a thread to figure out what happened. like, you know, you're kind of pointing at a thread to figure out what happened. So it's, and it's, it's, it's a cool, you know, it's Florida. That part of Florida is really cool and like a gothic part of Florida.

I don't, like, do you guys know Florida very well? Because I. I just moved here. You're like laughing. Oh my God, wait, you live in Florida? She just moved. Stop. Like two months ago. The Panhandle, which is like the northern part of

Florida, it's very old gothic south. Like it's almost like you're in like not like the saying about Florida, which I think is so interesting, is the further south you go, the more north you get. And then the more north you go, further south you get because north is like Miami and it's like super cosmopolitan and then when you're up in kind of northern panhandle area it's really that like old old southern um like gorgeous oak trees and all of that so I also had um it was very intriguing to me to like learn this area and do research there and all of that. It was a great setting, a very rich setting for my next book. We love a rich setting.

We do. A rich setting. And I love the people. Are you able to call him Ted Bundy in the book, or do you have to come up with a more fictional name? No, so that's the other thing. Well, I did it on my own because what I read was when I pulled all the archives from, I pulled all the transcripts from the Florida archives of the depositions, of the trial transcripts. And what I found so fucking awesome was that he is recorded in the records as the defendant and all he ever wanted

to be known as was a lawyer an attorney like he never completed law school like he couldn't he wasn't a good law student he wasn't smart um he was just given the benefit of the doubt because he was like kind of a normal looking guy right and all these women who raised the alarm about him like were just not really believed and um so he's he is in these transcripts he's acting as the attorney but he's not given a name he's just called the defendant because that's actually what he is so i refer to him in my book as the defendant got it well i love like that perspective on the the reason for this new book because jackie and i were just having this conversation on the podcast last week where like as a culture we've gotten to this extremely bizarre place where we like romanticize

these male serial killers and we make a million tv shows about them and in every show they're hotter and cooler and more suave than the next and like you're not really getting a nuanced pov about like the actual horrendous acts of crime that these people committed and they're almost like becoming celebrities in a weird way yes again that's what happened to him he was like yeah and also that like the victims are just lost in this telling like who are they yeah what like I think just like humanizing them and not always showing like the violence they're only shown to to show that they're like the violence that's shown against them right these were women that had like big dreams big goals like some of them went on to do amazing things with their lives others were like right at that like the most exciting period in your life.

Like just, you know, a lot of them were college students, you know, and like about to take their final exams and like they had big plans and they were like really cool. Like some of these girls I was like reading about and I interviewed some of the sorority girls and I'm like, these were like cool, fun girls, you know?

And like history has just completely forgotten about them and swept them aside and like they're just, fun girls, you know? And, like, history has just completely forgotten about them and swept them aside. And, like, they're just, like, the victims, you know? So true. I just, yeah. So I think, I just think this is, like, just a different, it's a reimagining and it's just from a point of view. I keep calling it, it's everything you don't know about the story that you think you do. Because I really thought I knew this story. And then I did my research and I was like, this is even crazier than I ever imagined.

And like, I'm so intrigued. And like, all of this is so compelling to me. Like, I have to find a way to like, make this into a book. So that's number three, baby. That sounds so good. Thank you so much for being here. here like this has truly been an honor I don't think we've ever had an author except for me except for you yeah um but thank you so much for being here and thank you for the work that you've done because honestly I actually the two of you this is a thank you to Jackie and to Jessica because Jackie

finally got me hooked on reading and it was you were the vehicle your book um so it's really been an honor to talk to you congrats on all the success with the movie in the book I mean it's not shocking you're so talented and it's really been an honor to have you on the show for real thank you so much thank you this has been so much fun thank you for having me you're so welcome everyone, go check out Luckiest Girl Live on Netflix. But I would recommend reading the book first. I think you should do both. That's always a favorite activity. And you can compare and contrast.

100%. You're here. See you on the next one. Bye. Bye.